Atlanta needs a HUGE expansion of the MARTA rail system! Cars was the transportation of yesterday, rail is the transportation of tomorrow. This expansion needs to have a plethora of stops connecting the ITP. Don’t forget about the OTP connect the rail system with the OTP and watch traffic go down, our carbon emissions will go down, and it would make Atlanta so much more walkable
@@fl0w3rsofEviL there’s a stigma around Marta in atlanta that’s it is dangerous and unsafe. Most suburbs don’t want Marta because it brings crime to their safe and quaint suburbs. People in atl just prefer driving
Yes...yes...yes !! Widening roads or building new ones is never a good solution or an answer. All it does is increase traffic. The answer is rail rapid transit. A system of light rail would be a good choice. The New Jersey Turnpike in Northern New Jersey is twenty lanes wide !! And it's still jammed with traffic day and night. So forget road widening as a solution. Also, Atlanta years ago had a fabulous network of city and suburban electric streetcar and electric trackless trolley lines. The fools junked it in favor of GM diesel buses. Don't they wish they had it today with the insane cost of diesel fuel now. It's running between $ 5 and $ 6 a gallon.
@@Jeff-uj8xi The US government destroyed all their major cities and rebuilt them for cars instead of people. ALL cities were better back in the day. The solution is to eradicate cars altogether. I hate risking my life just to travel. We need only trains and streetcars: no refueling or crashes.
there was a proposal for commuter rail in the Atlanta metro about 20 years ago. The map had several hub n spoke lines from downtown to suburbs in all directions. That would’ve helped. Atlanta needs commuter rail, build out MARTA, the Northern Arc. If I had Musk money, I’d completely reconstructed their freeways too, with express lanes in the middle separated by concrete barriers.
Let all through traffic use the express lanes, like i271 around Cleveland. Chicago express lanes are hurry- up- and- plug- things- up- farther- up lanes. You'll never build enough lanes without separating through from local traffic.
@@rbailey1240 I know years ago they had planned on a outer perimeter and that would relieve the massive amount of traffic that just wants to go thru Atlanta on trips.
From my experience of living in Atlanta for 15 years: You don't need car to get around Atlanta inside of I-285, as MARTA has that pretty well covered. You need the car to go anywhere outside of I-285.
Exactly. All the OTP people complaining about traffic, but it’s because they chose to live in car-oriented suburbs. They cause their own traffic then complain about it. 😅
@@Jamcad01 Yes, actually. Our most prosperous cities that make the most money are very dense. And ITP Atlanta is not a "small area," it's actually quite huge and has a lot of unused land.
@@shivtim They make the most money because zoning laws concentrate office space in one part of the city, that's the only reason, and not always, it depends on which metro area you're talking about. And how much money is being made isn't everything, quality of life matters and even most suburbs are overcrowded these days. Plantations made a lot of money back in the day, doesn't mean the quality of life was good for the slaves
Been enjoying your videos for a while now, especially the ones of Florida. My solution for Atlanta and for most other North American cities Is to follow the London model. That is to expand transit services in the inner city and add freeways to the suburbs. Atlanta could also benefit from some commuter rail lines to the suburbs (that also operate OUTSIDE of rush hour) complement MARTA. Coming up with a plan to solve this is easy. What’s difficult is changing the minds of people who don’t want to see this happen.(NIMBY’s) Like many other cities, it’s a matter of whether there is a drive or desire to change and it seems that they need to find a way to change the hearts and minds of those that stopping this from happening (or just ignoring them for the greater good).
I like this. This is a happy medium that makes sense. People will always want suburbs but if they have a quick and efficient way into the city there's no arguing they WILL take the train unless they have a good enough reason to sit in traffic and drive in cramped streets.
Commuter rail would not work in Atlanta. Most people are going THROUGH Atlanta, not to and from Atlanta. A rail network would have to be SO expansive as to be impossible.
From a local Metro Atlanta resident, great video. You pretty much covered all the issues we are stuck with. The "final/costly" Ga. 400 could happen. Build upward, a second deck, or as mentioned below a 2 lane limited road that is "just passing through" that is elevated. The area doesn't have much seismic activity that would cause catastrophic failure like I-880 in California in 1989. Tunneling would be a chore, the strata underneath the city is solid rock. Thats why underground MARTA expansion is tricky. An outer loop is/will be built. As mentioned, Hwy 20 is shifting somewhat to that. The Sugarloaf Pkwy limited access extension in Gwinnett has right of way purchased from Hwy 316 to I-85. It will get completed whether the residents want it or not. (I'm near the proposed site, not thrilled about construction, but it needs to happen) There are other right of way purchases from 85 past the Mall of Georgia towards 985 and Hwy 20 as well. If interested check the Gwinnett DOT webpage for more info. NIMBY obstruction will continue to wane as the situation continues to stay as untenable as it is. One compromise is looping MARTA/rail in the general vicinity of 285 with spurs branching out as short or far as allowed. As the Boomers "phase out" and the area gets more out of towners and locals get damn fed up, something like this can work. Now, would it be MARTA or a regional/county light rail that ties in? That's probably out of my pay grade, but I despise driving into town and I'd be thrilled to take a train if efficient. I took the train from the Indian Creek end station into downtown for school. It works. And Milage Mike is correct. If you are heading to live in the metro Atlanta area, live near where you work, or you'll be damn miserable. Did that crap for 8 almost, 9 years. Wasn't worth it in the end. TL/DR: Abandon all hope, ye who move to Atlanta if you want to travel in a timely manner. Or drive around from Midnight to 4:30 am.
An outer perimeter would help a lot. When traveling from South Georgia to any point north such as Chattanooga requires a drive through Atlanta. No other options are available. Also it should be noted that traveling northbound 75 from Macon, the Atlanta congestion starts at Locust Grove, and there's a perpetual choke point a few miles north of McDonough where 75 narrows to 3 lanes and the HOV lanes are always closed. Makes no sense. I've driven in several major cities, and Atlanta is 2nd only to the Big Apple itself in backups. If NYC got rid of its interminable lines at toll booths it wouldn't be too bad, much better than the Atlanta area. Except downtown NYC, which is in a class of horror all to itself.
We don’t have toll booths in NY anymore, but it’s still bad. I-278 is the worst due to the reduction in lanes and tight curves. I-95 has no shoulders. I-495 has the bottleneck between Exits 22 and 31. I-678 has consistent gradients from a depressed to a surface road. And I-878 is ONE WAY! 78 was also never completed through NYC. To fix the NYC road network, I would propose the following -I-78 would go through a new Cross Harbor Tunnel from Bayonne and follow the Bay Ridge branch to Linden Blvd. (I578 would take over the spur to the Holland). 78 would terminate at 678, and 878 would become a full freeway. -I80 would extend over the GWB and take over 295 to the LIE, and take over 495 with Riverhead, connecting with 95 again through the Long Island Sound crossing to New London. -I 95 would get a bypass from the Alexander Hamilton Bridge along I87 to a new expressway underneath Fordham Rd/Pelham Pkwy.
Actually, Georgia has created some fine rural highways that help take travelers between South Georgia and points north. The Martha Berry Highway, and US 25 both come to mind.
Great video. I've noticed a "Bermuda Triangle" section of I-75 that is notorious for accidents between Cartersville and Northeast of Acworth. It seems like nearly every day there are some major pile up. I've even seen four or five all in one day. The only thing I can think of is the exurbs meeting the suburbs and people coming down from Tennessee not used to all the traffic. I-75 really could use some widening up to Cartersville from where it runs out at Barrett Parkway in Kennesaw. The inside shoulder of I-75 is already wide enough to support one more Lane.
I have noticed this too. It always seems to back up somewhere between hwy 92 and Wade Green Rd. Sometimes for no reason. There isn't even a wreck there. It happens between Canton Rd and Marrietta Pkwy too. Also sometimes for no reason. Honestly even though the express lanes help, there needs to be at least one general purpose lane added in each direction from Marrietta to Cartersville.
@@xlxl9440 Yep, I've noticed I-75 SB just past GA-92 always slows in the curve to head SE. There definitely needs to be 1-2 more GP lanes up to GA-20 in Cartersville. The express lanes are nice but I feel like they end too early at Hickory Grove Road. I would have taken them to Glade Road in Acworth. The NB GP lanes tend to back up north of Hickory Grove Road when express traffic is merging.
"The inside shoulder of I-75 is wide enough to support one more Lane." Except those wide inside shoulders are actually left-hand breakdown and emergency lanes and need to remain clear for those purposes.
@@edwardmiessner6502 The inside shoulders were originally widened by GDOT to be a 4th lane but the project was scrapped under the table after spending $300 million on it.
Expansion of MARTA into Gwinnett, Cobb, and further up 400 would solve a lot of the problems north of the city. Downtown is a little more complicated. Maybe consider a tolled tunnel in the approximate vicinity where I-485 was proposed. Although this would be a monumental undertaking, it would be the only feasible alternative I can think of to condemning thousands of homes and businesses to build a new ground-level highway. When you've got 14 lane highways and are still congested, then it's time to look at alternatives to widening roads.
I say expand MARTA to the metro areas and also expand MARTA inside the ITP. Those sad four rail lines are not enough. It doesn’t even stop at places like Atlantic Station, Six Flags, or Stone Mountain
Building a tunnel would disrupt just as many homes and businesses unless you want to go deep and drill through rock, as someone else said for expanding MARTA. And all connectors for this tunnel must be strictly freeway to freeway with the purpose solely to move traffic through the city.
I have lived in the Atlanta area since 1974 and am familiar how traffic has increased. The real problem is that there are too many people moving here with no roads or alternate transportation to accommodate the increased population. You mentioned GA 400 being as part of the downtown connector. It actually terminates north of the downtown connector on I-85. One thing you failed to mention, although you had it highlighted in blue was that US 78, aka Stone Mountain Freeway, was supposed to terminate at the downtown connector but residents in Decatur and further into town were successful to block it before I moved to the area. You didn't mention I-20. It has become congested over the years as well. There is a free HOV lane on the east side of Atlanta and it goes to I-285. Traffic on I-20 outside I-285 is horrible especially during rush hour. I-75 South has become just as congested as that on the northside. Reversible toll HOV lanes have been constructed like on I-75 north of I-285. During popular holiday breaks and even at other times, southbound traffic is a parking lot. I do agree that an outer loop should have been built many years ago. BTW I have a civil engineering degree and enjoy transportation issues but I am into railroading and worked for a major freight rail system for 30 years.
One could argue it's intent is the same, it is clearly part of the 'funnel' called the connector. When first built you cold only go south on 400, connecting with I-85 and very shortly thereafter with I-75.
One idea I have heard discussed as a way to alleviate congestion on the connector is to remove many of the on-ramps and off-ramps. There are currently far too many and they disrupt traffic flow moving through the city. This is particularly noticeable on the Edgewood ave. southbound ramp. If half the ramps were removed in this area it would improve things significantly. It is unfortunate that Marta has not been allowed to expand into Cobb and Gwinett counties. That change along would at least provide an alternative to commuters. I live in Decatur and am fortunate to have easy access to the train if needed. It really comes in handy when going to/from the airport.
As a person who grew up in Atlanta, traffic is the worst I have ever seen it. Some solutions as far as transit is maybe commuter trains for the places outside the perimeter and expand the Marta network within the perimeter and put transit on the belt line that circles the city it self. People have to stop lacking vision and think if someone else wants to use transit that means less cars on the existing road network. We have stop thinking of transit as being for only poor and lower class folks, and think of it as a way to get around the city. I would personally prefer to save my money from being spent on my car such as gas , car insurance, car notes, etc and be able to put that money to work for building wealth for myself and my family. Atlanta has so much potential but there is a lack of vision.
I’m at Atlanta resident, thanks so much for this video. I learned a lot from it. Never knew 400 and 675 were supposed to connect! I can’t unsee that now!
FYI there is a difference between HOV and Express Lanes, HOV Lanes (all inside I-285) are free so long as you have 2+ People in a vehicle and were built in the 90s. Express Lanes (all Outside I-285) can be used solo so long as you have a Peach Pass and were built in the 10s, with more to come along GA-400 and I-285 by the end of the decade.
Unfortunately, Express Lanes incentivize single-occupancy vehicles, meaning that more roadway must be constructed to move the same amount of traffic. They also remove one lane of roadway in each direction that could, otherwise, be used by multi-occupant vehicles which cannot afford (or downright refuse) to pay for the Peach Pass.
@@larrygraus2648 They won't remove any of the existing lanes for the I-285/GA 400 Express Lanes, nor did they for the I-75 Express Lanes. As for single occupancy vehicles, not sure that charginbg someone to use something in incentivising but it does go a long way toward paying for the lanes, unlike transit (MARTA) which can't support itself.
@@larrygraus2648 most express lanes don't help with congestion. The vehicles that require the most space and are slowest to react to changes in speed and available space (heavy trucks) are still limited to the lanes with the most speed and space changes- the first two beside the ramps. I271 in Ohio are the only express lanes I've seen that do any good.
I'm a trucker in Atlanta the simple solution to the traffic problem give people tickets half the traffic is due to people being nosey half the time its a an accident on the southbound side people on the northbound side have to stop the look just an example of course and stop doing road construction in the middle of the day every other state you go to do road construction at night.
Thanks for the video, Mike. It is clear you did your research. Regarding the highways in the northern part of Atlanta Metro, we start getting into the foothills leading into the Smoky Mountains. The presence of hills, lakes, creeks, and rivers greatly increases the financial cost and logistic difficulties that would be needed for a northern freeway. To extend 400 or 675 would disrupt businesses, including moving outreach programs people need. It is not as simple as blaming politicians or even rich people. The MARTA experience is lousy on bus and rail. Look closer and see successful transit bus programs from counties such as Cobb or Henry. If MARTA was even passable, these would not be needed as much.
The main problem with the connector is the interchange at I-20. The traffic always slows at the Grady Curve. People are always tapping the breaks which has a compounding knock on effect. Then everyone suddenly realizes they have to get all the way over to the right to get on I-20...its a big mess.
Then you have 20 itself coming out of East Atlanta as many people tap on the brakes at the last second to scoot onto the connector ramp, causing gridlock for those wanting to continue west into West Atlanta and jamming traffic back to Moreland (particularly the AM Commute)
Then you have the battle from Connector to 20E with Hill St traffic merging to get on 20 and folks trying to get off the Boulevard Exit (especially the PM commute). Piss poor managing on GDOT's part.
As an out of stater (CA) who traveled to Atlanta recently, I can confirm what Mileage Mike says is accurate and true. I didn't realize Atlanta was a huge ass city very much like Los Angeles. Both are known to have bad traffic and you need a vehicle to get around. I wouldn't live in Atlanta for many reasons. Traffic, the 3-hour ahead thing, and it reminds me a lot of Los Angeles. No thanks!
As someone who's from the Atlanta metro area and has driven through L.A., I have to say you folks give Atlanta a run for it's money when it comes to wild driving.
Midtown is fairly small in Atlanta. The problem is the fast growing suburbs and the fact that rich folks would rather spend hours in traffic every single week rather than build an actual commuter rail from Buford, through Gwinnett, and to midtown.
It's honestly baffling to see that most Americans believe that the solution to traffic is to expand highways and build more roads. All this does is promote growth in suburbs that results in more traffic. The only real way to fix these issues is to build cities around public transport. When you focus growth around walkable areas and make it easy to reach by public transport you won't want to get in your car to drive every time you need to leave your house for something
The cities are there, the beat hope now is to separate through traffic from local traffic so one doesn't mess with the other. But like the engineers who laid i80 over Elk Mountain, they were going to show these yokels how a modern highway works. They saved 19 miles vs following 30 west of Laramie, last winter they had i80 shut down clear into central Nebraska because of the weather.
Seattle was pretty good for me as well. I didn't have a car 5 out of the 6 years I lived there. Between their Link Rail train system (which is expanding further each year to reach the surrounding suburbs) and their bus system, I got around without a hitch. Anywhere I wanted to go. I loved it! Yes it was time consuming. But I didn't have to worry about sitting in traffic or finding/paying for parking. And plus you got to walk around Seattle which is in a beautiful geographic location. The other positive to not being car dependent is you easily stay in shape. I was a good 15 to 20 pounds lighter without even thinking about it. As soon as I got a car I ballooned right on up😭. Ultimately it's just so freeing getting places on foot and good for you too. Honestly I think Seattle is slept on as a great walkable, bikeable, and public transport American city! It's not London by any means but for us, it's commendable 👍
@chenanigans I absolutely love Seattle. Lived there for a year and I miss it every day. The amount of natural beauty there while also having a nice city was unique and so enjoyable. I hope I get the chance to move back there one day
I recently relocated from Atlanta after living there for 12 years and I’ll be the first to say I’m so happy that I don’t have to deal with that traffic nor the horrible drivers anymore.. 285 & 400 are just nightmares man..
I moved out of the north metro area several years ago, after being born and raised there, as my father and his family was. The traffic was and always has been bad. I was a wrecker driver in the late 80's right out of high school, and I couldn't fathom doing that now in Atlanta. Now I live in rural northeast Georgia right outside of Athens, and while the traffic situation in the Classic City is in need of some type of relief, it is light-years ahead of Atlanta's situation. I don't know what the solution is; no one wants to budge on anything in the metro area. I don't believe it will ever get better; it seems they've built themselves into a corner with no hopes of improvement. I'm just happy I don't have to deal with any of that chaos anymore.
If people would get off their phones and move right when not passing then it would be a lot better. There are literally a bunch of people that as soon as they get on 285, immediately go all the way to the 3rd lane or the far left lane and go 50, and stay in that lane until 30 feet from their exit, and cross 3 lanes of traffic to take the exit. I don't know how many times I've passed hundreds of cars at a time by moving to the right lane in traffic. It's like they don't know the right lane exist.
It's too late, the suburbs around Atlanta have not only expanded but have also increased in population density. Any new proposals will face even more oposition. The traffic jams used to stop at Forest Park on the south side, now you fight your way all the way to Macon. Could you take a look at the lightrail project in Milwaukee? Does it have any chance of being anything other than a political boondoggle?
The outer Perimeter would have been a big help. I had not heard of the GA400 tunnel plans but have long thought that an express (elevated or tunnel) lane through downtown (no exits, just bypassing the connector) would be a huge help. Improved street signs (larger and centrally positioned above the intersection) would benefit all side streets Lastly, and my most controversial suggestion, is more vigorous licensing standards for drivers in the metro area. Currently testing occurs on a closed course and only tests for rudimentary vehicle operation. Atlanta's lane discipline and overall knowledge of driving etiquette is woeful. More rigorous and frequent testing would provide the most immediate benefit imo.
Even though I'm late to comment, to me because major cities have traffic jams on its freeways because either they need an outer perimeter, people can't drive, public transits, or the merge tapers. I'm also pretty sure merge tapers is the most reason why it be traffic jams. GDOT and other states that go through this definitely need to revive some cancelled freeway projects. I definitely agree with GA-400 to I-675, otherwise later on, all Hell will break loose with Atlanta traffic if they don't work this out.
The Spaghetti Bowl!! At least only local big trucks are permitted inside I-285, so cars can fight it out Downtown. Many Georgia secondary roads are 2-lanes (one each way) so poor at moving volume traffic (should have looked to NC where many US routes are limited access (on/off ramps). And too late to build a "way-out-beltway" like Boston, Houston, Chicago. Easiest drive through Atlanta ever: when Georgia played Alabama in Mercedes Dome for National Championship, and Georgia was winning (til the third quarter). I crossed Atlanta, I-20, I-285, I-20 in 30 minutes!!
After moving here, I am irritated with the drivers in Atlanta. Drivers here see pedestrians, or rather they don't see pedestrians, as inconveniences. They see red lights and cross walks as "suggestions". It's even worse if you try to bike within the city.
Atlanta and the Georgia DOT did a piss poor job planning for the future. I remember back in the early 90s that a second loop was proposed but it never Happened. You look at the Dallas/Ft Worth Metroplex, they've built new Freeways/ tollways especially to the north where the population has exploded at a very high rate over the past 3 decades. I truly believe believe Dallas and the Texas DOT planned for the future. Dallas Area Rapid Transit (DART) has a high speed rail service from Downtown Dallas up to Plano.
Yeah Texas does a much better job at building infrastructure than Georgia. In Georgia everyone seems against any transit or highway expansion to help address the issues around Atlanta.
Sigh. Until we can get the rich folk in northern Gwinnett to agree to expand Marta, it’ll never get better. More lanes of traffic are a bandaid to a sinking ship.
Fantastic video! Your sense of humor is also great. I would love to see more of this content about Atlanta. Although there are many things I love about Atlanta, I have to say the traffic makes me want to move away asap. Not to mention the expected population influx you mentioned, which there is just no way that the city and metro area can handle. Things are going to get really, really, REALLY bad before they get better. If they do get better. In 10 years, this nightmare will only be worse, not to mention the heartbreaking gentrification and housing crisis that seems to be on some perpetual feedback loop. In my opinion, the residents and descendants of (mostly) northern suburbs are now feeling the effects of their racism daily as they sit in an urban planning nightmare trading hours of their lives for frustration and anger. Yet, do they even realize? And it seems they don't bat an eye at the irony of driving down to MARTA stations in the communities they want to avoid contact with to use them rather then be part of the system and help everyone. Sorry for the rant, it's just mind boggling.
Spent a lot of time in Atlanta growing up being from New Jersey since I have a lot of family down there. Every time I went I was always amazed on just how massive the interstate going through Downtown ATL was (7 lanes!), and how I-20 seriously is a massive part of the traffic buildup
I'm 2 hours from Atlanta I 20 is a nice sized highway from where i live and get you through a good part of the state but when you get up to Atlanta it's just traffic lock. No one in this state likes to drive-through Atlanta
@@shivtim Atlanta was not that big when they designed the freeway system back in the 40’s and 1950’s. They had no way of knowing Atlanta would boom in 40 to 50 years down the road.
285 been the same forever. All semi trucks are forced to use it. A lot of traffic is passing through ATL because you have to go through there to get to other cities and areas. ATL needs an outer loop preferably a toll loop.
Interesting video Mike!!! This traffic directly affects me since I live in Cartersville, GA one of those exurbs about 40 miles northwest of ATL up I-75. Development keeps creeping up from Achworth while the Cartersville area is growing fast on its own. Soon my town will look like every other part of ATL only surrounding Lake's Allatoona and Achworth. Fortunately I work from home, but I do occasionally have to go into the office in Sandy Springs. And I like doing stuff in ATL so this is a big issue for me.
Good video on a worthy topic Mike. I suggest there are additional causes that should also be addressed. (1) Atlanta Public Schools are terrible. This directly impacts traffic. How? The quality of education is poor. Because of this, many people who work in the city choose to live in the suburbs (where the schools are better), forcing them to drive 20-40 miles per day to work. More road miles=more congestion. (2) Traffic in the suburbs is often just as bad as traffic in the city. This is heavily influenced by gated neighborhoods and cul-de-sacs. I grew up in Kansas, where the streets are all laid out in a grid. If one street gets too congested, it's a simple matter to take a detour to the next street. In Atlanta, there are many neighborhoods with 500+ homes, with only one or two entrances to the neighborhood and cul-de-sacs designed to reduce through traffic. With this approach, if a street gets congested, the detour may take you miles out of your way. (3) Mass transit is indeed a great idea. I've lived and worked in Chicago and NYC. Both cities have excellent mass transportation. MARTA is not like those systems. In Chicago and NYC, trains are within walking distance of your origin and destination. In Atlanta, you must first drive to a MARTA station, park, then wait for the train. This process often results in a longer commute than by car alone. More important, MARTA sometimes feels unsafe. I've never felt unsafe on trains in Chicago or NYC, but several times my wife and I have chosen to get off a MARTA train due to fights on the train or in the station with no security or police presence in the area. Could MARTA be fixed? Probably. I'm merely saying this is more than a matter of building more mass transit. It must also feel safe or people with cars will not use it. Finally, to your point in the video, I would love to know who decided it was a good idea to intersect two major interstate highways in the middle of the city. Not only do they intersect, but they also share 7 miles of roadway. That was a huge mistake, even when the city was much smaller than it is today.
Thanks. That’s interesting, I’ve never really heard the education perspective before. Granted, I don’t have kids yet so it’s not usually something I personally consider, it’s good to hear from those who do. It definitely makes sense as quality of schools can often be a the very top of the list when families choose where to live. The development style of those suburbs is why I do think additional highways need to be built, mainly an outer perimeter or at a minimum, a northern arc. Transit can’t really connect that type of development efficiently. I have some family in the northern suburbs who’ve said similar about MARTA and that they still drive to work because they’d have to drive to/from the station anyway. What’s strange to me about MARTA is that it has no state funding. It seems a police presence could be added if it were better funded I’d assume? I’ve been on the route from Sandy Springs to Downtown a few times and I know what you mean about it feeling uneasy at some points. I’m fine as a man but I could see why a guy wouldn’t want his wife or kids on it.
The best solution would be expanding MARTA, but since that won't happen anytime soon, I'm not really sure what else can be done. Widening highways doesn't solve traffic anywhere, but Atlanta's geography makes it even worse. While other Sun Belt cities that developed more recently and are in flatter areas like Houston, Dallas, and Phoenix can just expand outwards, the topography of Atlanta limits that, so the only choice is to build new developments wherever they can find the land. That just increases capacity on the existing road networks that are already filled to the brim. Among fast-growing Southern cities, Atlanta is unique in that it's an older city in a mountainous area with limited opportunities for construction of new areas, except in the exurbs like Cherokee and Forsyth County. Population expansion without infrastructure upgrades is what's really killing Atlanta, and it's not just a problem in the suburbs. A prime example of this is West Midtown, where they developed an area of derelict warehouses into a yuppy-style high-end neighborhood. But there's no transit, and the roads are just simple two-lane arterial roads that now see endless congestion because there's no other transportation option. I've also seen in Midtown where they removed all breakdown lanes to allow more room for traffic. The issue is that now there's nowhere to pull over, so a stopped car will just stop in the middle of the lane, and people who don't realize it will have to change lanes quickly, which actually causes more congestion. Competency tests for drivers also wouldn't hurt 😂. I swear, Atlanta has by far the worst drivers of any city I've ever been to lol.
Most of Cherokee and Forsyth are not exurbs but are true outer suburbs. If you were to have stated this back around the late 90s or early 2000s, you'd have been correct. North Cherokee and parts of west and east Cherokee are exurban, but that's only about half of the land in the county. Most of Forsyth County's exurban area in the northwestern part of the county is on its way to being full on suburban within ten or so years.
I've loved your videos for years now so it's nice, although a little strange lol, to be able to picture a voice with the channel. This was a very informational video and a very hot topic! Nicely done!
I’ve always said it needed a loop around 285! I had designed something similar and even had traction with a petition going back in 2014. It’s similar to the lay of Houston with Beltway 8.
I live in Atlanta and saw Houston for the first time a few years ago as a truck driver. I said the exact same thing: why can't Atlanta have a 2nd belt around it?
@@sameenergy9414 Houston has FOUR. Atlanta has horrible traffic. Houston is actually denser than ATL since they have more highways. Los Angeles and houston are denser than ATL and Raleigh since they have more highways so builders build denser homes between the highways. In the exurbs the only way to attract people to commute an hour and a half is to give everyone a half acre and a 4000 sqft home. 4000 sqft and a half acre are good imo but the anti “urban sprawl” activists actually caused MORE sprawl with their smooth brainery
An outer loop of Atlanta would be SO HELPFUL! They need to start building that! If only GDOT hadn't scrapped that, there'd be less traffic jams in ATL! GDOT also needs to build future I-14! I also agree with your take on GA-400 to I-675! GDOT also needs to revive I-485 and I-420!
There was a plan in the early 90s for a new loop but politics played a roll in killing that. North of I-20, I-620. South of I-20 I-820. If I-420 we're to be signed, imagine how many signs will be stolen.
As a person that lives just outside of Atlanta, traffic is a massive struggle almost the entire day you cant imagine the accidents, construction, and density in some areas 😫
I just started my freshman year of college in ATL. I grew up with the Capital Beltway and know my way around gridlock… and still wasn’t prepared. After 2 weeks here that mythical outer beltway can’t come soon enough 😂😂😂
Nashville (where I live) is another city that exemplifies explosive growth that is occurring in the south. It's basically a mini-Atlanta in that sense with 3 major freeways going through it as well. Nashville even has a small amount of rail service to its east side, but a proposal to build more rail service was shot down by political hostility (most of it having basically no local relation to Nashville at all). Also, if that ginormous 840 loop were actually completed around the city as originally envisioned, it could have possibly been the longest beltway in the country, but the state gave up on the idea of building it north of I-40 due to the notoriously rocky terrain in that area (which would have made building the highway there enormously expensive). In general, suburbia has shown a lot of hostility toward allowing new highways to be built, and where they did get built, they got built in sections where there wasn't enough opposition to the idea. On that point, I doubt much more of what happened in the beginning of the interstate highway age will repeat itself as many affluent black neighborhoods were basically destroyed and rendered to third-world status when those highways were built.
Yeah Nashville is another good one. I’d like to do a similar video discussing the traffic and transportation there once I get a chance to spend some more time out there.
This is what I think I-85 should be in Georgia. I-85 Should be expanding from 3 lanes from GA state line to near exit 35 near Grantville, GA. I-85 is fine until after the I-285 interchange in College Park. Expand I-85 to 4 lanes from I-285 to Langford Pkwy. Make a collector distributor for exits 76 & 77. Use the right Lane for Langford Pkwy, The left 2 lanes for I-85 North. 2nd To Right Lanes will be a choice lane. Exits 247 - 249 should be a collector distributor system. Have Two lanes to get on Buford Connector, one being a choice lane. Have more signs showing that the right Lane is exiting to 400. Add another lane to the Greenville Ramp. I-85 is good until exit 126 where it narrows to 3 lanes. I-85 Should be 3 lanes (in each direction) to the SC border (parts of it are already being widened)
Having lived there for many years until relocating to FL ... I often joked that "Atlanta" is an old Chicopee Indian word meaning "Land of Many Orange Barrels". LOL
The solution is expensive but must be done unless they want Atlanta to collapse. 1. Downtown Alternative- Release pressure off Downtown Highway. 2. Outer Perimeter- This Should have been done in the 80s, mid 90s at the latest since the mass growth of Atlanta was known even back then. A Perimeter road or possibly 2 should be built to allow an actual bypass of Atlanta. 3. Expand MARTA- Atlanta had a good idea but it needs State backing to get off the ground. Local public transit is a viable option. 4. Regional Rail- Rail can connect Atlanta to other nearby Cities getting cars off the road. 5. Inter Regional Rail- Conect Atlanta to other Major cities with High Speed Rail.
This affects me because I'm an hour from Atlanta. An outer perimeter would help so much for me so I could bypass Atlanta when going to Chattanooga or going to Greenville/Spartanburg. GDOT needs to start major construction ASAP. I-14, an outer perimeter, GA 400, GA 400/285 interchange, etc.
@@oxigeno05 Atlanta is a crossroads city. You can build as many train rail systems as you like it would do nothing for the congestion. Marta is not that bad and let's be honest mostly poor that can't afford the expense of a car use. Your chances of getting robbed or murdered are probably triple using Marta. I've been on Marta and trust me stopping downtown near the grayhound bus station and the local strip club will detour any sane non desperate human being from ever doing it again. You can get around pretty well if side streets are utilized. Commercial (truck) traffic is a major issue. Most of those truck's are passing through heading to Florida, Nashville, Chattanooga, Greenville etc. They are forced to use 285 thus creating the wall of traffic
@@mike-sk2li funny you talk about safety, and thinking MARTA is unsafe compared to cars. Look up how many deaths and injuries there are each year. MARTA is waaaaay safer than driving.
The problem with any potential solution is that construction times will be so long that it will be out of date before it is finished. Where I live, thee are proposals that are out of date already, and planning hasn't even begun.
An extensive rail system is the answer, and that was learned over a century ago. New York City, population of 8 million, moves over 5 million people a day via the subway (pre-pandemic). Just like BART of San Francisco, Atlanta should have built their initially planned system decades ago. Now both metro areas are regretting it. The Bay Area had an extensive rail system before BART, but those tracks were ripped up--and sadly, that's another story in itself.
I drive a semi and take 285 all the time between 5 am an around 11pm it always seems to be jacked up. I think they honestly should make a commercial only by-pass lanes kinda like 95 through jersey. As for that downtown mess ?
Looking at Atlanta it needs a lot of highway and railway infrastructure: 1. An Outerbelt Expressway to capture through traffic and distribute regional traffic. 2. Additional spoke freeways between The Perimeter and the suggested Outerbelt Expressway. 3. Commuter rail on every active railroad track! 4. Extensions of the existing MARTA subway lines and building Additional lines within the city. Areas around all stations should be zoned for walkable higher densities. Huge parking lots, endless single family home developments, strip malls, and office parks cannot generate ridership! 5. Make MARTA safe! Others are complaining about crime on the MARTA.
The USA is a country with a culture that loves the automobile. Mass transportation won't work here...NYC is the only place it does and that's because it is unlike any other American city, and even then on the outskirts of the boroughs everyone uses a car. Significant changes in roadway design/planning, in conjunction with population growth deterrents in the cities (keep people from moving to the major Sun Belt cities), are the only ways to ameliorate these issues.
Victor W great point i lived in atlanta for fifteen years a transplant from san diego california mass transit will not work there it would just cause more congestion, all the streets in atlanta coming off the interstate feeding the city are one way each direction, the 75, 85, 285 coming into downtown are 4-5 lanes thick and then all of sudden are choked off leading in, the bypass 400 is was a temporary fix not anymore, there are too many other traffic issues to go into, this city was never designed for this amount of influx of people and their cars
Victor... Smh, you're not that bright. Mass transit IS the answer. How many of your uncles gotta die in a car crash for you to realize that? The US government destroyed all their major cities and rebuilt them for cars instead of people. ALL cities were better back in the day. The solution is to eradicate cars altogether. We need only trains and streetcars: no refueling or crashes.
Induce demand does not fix traffic. Take a look at Paris metro and commuter rail system. Suburbs to suburbs connections can be possible by rail, tram, BRT, bikeways, and other mobility modes. Cars can not fix traffic, they add traffic. Marta has the money to expand highway BRT routes on a frequent schedule. People would benefit transit over cars regardless what the traffic is.
Georgia is providing a tax rebate for its residence. Of course everyone likes getting a tax rebate, but many don't realize the true cost. They don't connect the rebate with the lack of funds needed to improve urban and suburban infrastructure. I would love to drive to my Acworth home from points south without getting stuck in the MCDonough parking lot. Traffic builds miles before the lexus lanes. But hey, I can take the fam out to dinner with that rebate.
Lol "Lexus lanes." I seen an article on Miami's express lanes saying how express lanes are not Lexus lanes Also you're right about the traffic building up. I hate that traffic and I've been in it
That's the thing thought, we don’t want to foot the bill to Fix problems Atlanta could have prepared for cheaper back in the 80s/90s but chose not to. Using eminent domain to build the infrastructure would look bad but worked out in the long run. Instead we're looking at a several billion dollar project that the rest of the State will have to pay for. We have projects that need funding but for every new lane in Atlanta another part of the state gets it's bridge replacement pushed back or it's road rebuilding turned into a pothole patch job.
Was trying to avoid Atlanta travelling south on 75 to Columbus GA in late June. Was on interstate around Atlanta when travel come to a crawl after an entrance ramp. Something I had never seen before some people turned their autos around and went up the entrance ramp. The traffic started moving shortly after but their was no sign of why traffic stopped.
I'm a trucker that drives through Atlanta atleast once a week. It's not that bad. I actually like I-285 compared to other beltways. It's one of the few beltways that you can pick a lane and stay in the same lane all the way around the city. It's all about picking the correct lane early before you reach the congested areas and staying in your lane. Atlanta needs more signs to let people know what lane they should be in. As it is, you don't know what lane you need until the last mile and it causes traffic to start last minute lane changes and increase congestion. It also helps if you drive polite and allow other vehicles to merge. I've traveled it so many times that I know what lane is best but unfortunately other drivers that do not frequent Atlanta do not know. I've gotten pretty good at spotting vehicles that I intuitively know are in the wrong lane and anticipate their actions before even they know what their gonna do. I always let vehicles merge and I only ask that you signal. No turn signal and you can go into the gaurd rail for all I care. I pride myself on being a defensive and forgiving truck driver but if you won't give me the courtesy of a turn signal than you can eat my bumper.
I always signal lane changes and do my best to let trucks merge just before the I-75S/I-285 interchange. I pay attention to turn signals on trucks and slow down so that the truck can get in front of me. You guys work hard and I do what I can.
I'm a local Atlanta truck driver and I have no idea what you're talking about. Pick a lane? Don't know which lane? It's the right lane. Unless you're passing, use the goddamn right lane. If not, then at least keep it moving. Don't be one of these guys I use the right lane to pass all day long in my truck that only goes 70.
@@meizhongbai I never pass in the right lane. It's not safe. Of course I do my best to keep it moving because my clock is ticking. I believe the speed limit is 65 mph on 285. The farthest right lane is for traffic to enter and exit onto or from 285 and no trucks allowed in the left lane. I obey all the rules. Most of 285 is 3 lanes and I stay in the 3rd lane to the right to go around the city. It's not rocket science. To say "it's the right lane" doesn't make sense. The right lane is for exiting and entering the freeway. You can't stay in the right lane the whole time but you can pick a lane that does not require you to constantly be switching lanes, maintain a relative constant speed and is completely legal. If you haven't figured out which lane that is than I suggest you pay better attention to your surroundings when driving. Pick the correct lane as soon as possible when your exit is approaching and change lanes safely rather than at the last moment like so many local drivers do. The 5th lane from the right works for exiting and entering 285 from 20, 75 and 85 that allows you to go north, south, east or west. Again, count the lanes next time you're getting on or off 285. Don't know if it's just coincidence or if GA DOT designed it that way but it works from all directions and all interstate highways entering or exiting 285. Not sure why "pick" is confusing. Pick, choose, decide or take. Whatever word works for you. Example: Going 75 south to 285. If you get in the far right lane you would expect the lane to be going west but it doesn't. The east and west ramps criss-cross so the right lane actually takes you east. That creates confusion and there is only a single sign less than a quarter mile from the exit ramp to notify drivers. People often realize at the last moment they are in the wrong lane. I've seen it a thousand times. On the other hand, I picked the correct lane 5 miles back when there was no traffic and have been safely cruising with no further lane changes required. If you stay in the 5th lane on 75, the lane splits and you can go left or right to go east or west on 285. And it works in the opposite direction going from 285 onto 75. The 5th lane splits and let's you go left or right on all the interstates 20, 75, 85 and 285 coming or going. That's what I mean by "pick" your lane early. As a truck driver I'm sure you can understand that weaving in and out of lanes is not safe. Knowing where you're going and maintaining your lane is more important than going as fast as possible. It's also a lot less stressful. Not all beltways are like that. Where you can just "pick" a specific lane and stay in it all the way around. Houston, Dallas and Chicago come to mind. There is no single lane that goes all the way around. Whether you're in the far right or far left or even the middle lane, eventually it will come to an end and you will have to merge or change lanes left or right to continue around the city.
@@jamesrevell6475 the right lane is not for entering and exiting traffic! You move over if traffic is entering, then you move back when possible. In high traffic, you would have to change lanes often, so in that case, yes just stay in second lane, but don't stay there indefinitely. After you pass the heavy traffic, go back to the right lane. Trucks are only allowed in the first 2 lanes. Don't live in the 2nd lane, no trucks can ever legally pass you!
Looking from the outside, from the perspective of someone who quite some time ago worked a summer in Atlanta, loved the city, saw the problems there, one thing that I think holds it back is precisely what you've mentioned in the video without really mentioning it, that Atlanta is made up of a number of counties. I'm all for local democracy, but you can't run an entire city the size of Atlanta with it being so fragmented with so many competing interests at play, nothing will ever get done. Cities like New York, Chicago, and in my own country London, Manchester, Birmingham, they all plan their infrastructure for the good of the whole city (usually, local issues still come into play, but you can't just opt out like seems to be the case here, if you live in a wealthy suburb). Until this is fixed it's like swimming against the tide, meaning things will eventually get done, but they'll probably not be the best solution and might not even fix the issue as by then things have changed and there are even bigger things that need fixing. What I would say is that an integrated public transport system is needed that, and this is important, games people where they need to go. Cars need to be taken off the road. According extra lanes for those with money to speed by sounds like a terrible decision that solves nothing. And hereby lies the problem, in the US no one wants to pay taxes (the rich get away with paying next to nothing), this solution just shows those who can afford it to speed by, that isn't a solution, who the hell allowed this to be implemented??? To build a functioning public transport infrastructure that Atlantans could be proud of costs money. It could be done in stages and with the right people in charge Atlanta could move into the 21st city. When I was there it wasn't long after they hosted the Olympic Games. It should have been done then and it would have put the city on the map once and for all. I visited some of the decaying remnants of the games, it was sad. I feel the city has been mostly forgotten about by the outside world. It's a great place with great people. MARTA I found to be pretty good, but very limited in where you could go quickly and efficiently.
Houston had a similar starting point to Atlanta, but Houston was able to catch up with its growth by expanding its freeways, building 2 beltways, and keeping different freeways SEPARATE. Why didn't Atlanta?
Houston is another mess, now Texas DoT is proposing a huge expansion that will destroy huge swaps of neighborhoods. It just shows that freeways not the solution for the inner city traffic. More lanes induce more demand is not sustainable, is fail experiment from the 1950s that we just keep repeating unfortunately.
If Atlanta instituted a Congestion Charge, to enter the city limits, similar to what's done in London England and other cities, it would encourage suburbanites to leave their cars outside the city and ride MARTA bus and rail (or perhaps carpool), which would have a positive knock-on effect of having Cobb and Gwinnett be more receptive to approving MARTA extensions, and thus improving the overall commute for northern suburb residents. It would also add money to Atlanta City's coffers, which are struggling, especially if more parts of Atlanta (like Buckhead) leave the city.
Add an "I-420 Loop" to circuit I-20 bypass traffic to the South around Atlanta and I-285, in the same manner that "I-840" routes Nashville I-40 bypass traffic around the city center. In Atlanta, the crossings of I-20, I-85 and I-285 create traffic congestion, much the same as the crossings of I-65, I-40 and I-24 did in Nashville, TN, until the I-840 loop started to carry I-40 bypass traffic away from the city center.
400 through the city (and the Presidential Parkway linking the Connector to the Stone Mountain Freeway) never _should_ be built. Roads there would further destroy the character of the city undone by the Connector and I-20, and sacrifice the healing urban fabric of close-in neighborhoods in favor of through traffic. I worked as part of a campaign to defeat the Northern Arc back in the early 2000s. That, in hindsight, was a mistake - but what gave fuel to opponents of the Arc was a sentiment (based on experience) that state institutions would never, never quit prioritizing road spending over everything else: not in the city, not in the burbs, not in the exurbs. I think one _could_ solve a ton of problems with the Outer Perimeter, and something like that desperately needs to get built. One also needs to reduce induced demand for through roads in the city, though - and I’d suggest doing that, after or in tandem with completion of an outer bypass, by directing traffic on I-20 east of MLK and west of Glenwood, and I-75 & 85 south of Lindbergh & Howell Mill and north of University, onto an improved and reconnected surface grid. (North-south stadium and airport traffic could be served by completion of a tunnel with limited access through midtown, downtown, and Summerhill using some I-85 access road and Connector right of way.)
The through interstates could be redirected to the Outer Perimeter routes - or, more likely in the case of I-20, to the southern leg of I-285. Last, for further through-traffic relief, the state DOT could go ahead and fund the Fall Line Freeway connecting Columbus, Macon, and Augusta (perhaps intercepting I-85 directly if Alabama can be persuaded to continue the road west to Opelika).
My observations moving to Atl from the midwest 10yrs ago: Get rid of cul de sac neighborhoods that force everyone to pack secondary roads. Put your kids a the bus at first grade and charge parents for the privilege of driving onto school property. Start teaching the next generation to use public transportation now. My 2c
Moved from Johns Creek up north to Midtown. Can see my condo a couple times in the video. Saved a ton in gas but that cancels out with the expensive HOA. Nice to be able to walk to work in 10 minutes though. Not missing the traffic, gridlock, nor the terrible driving. I used to blame the bad drivers but realized it's the civil engineers who designed the roads who are to be blamed. The poor signage, confusing lane management and exit planning, and overall road design - that's mostly what leads to the drivers swerving across so many lanes and exiting at the last second.
it is proven fact that the only thing that reduces traffic is providing alternative transportation options. building out the freeway network (which is quite frankly already overbuilt) and adding more lanes to existing highways will only make traffic worse as atlanta grows. you take people off the roads and put them in train cars and you’ll see less traffic. that is something this video is missing
To MM from WC, my son lives in ATL , Lawrenceville, then Smyrna, in his early years 1991+ he lived NE off I-85 and was given the opportunity to ride MARTA free! After a few months he went back to his truck, what does that tell you? After marriage he & his wife moved to Smyrna. Over the years he got to tide his bike, then to near Spaghetti Junction, and now to Marietta to go to work! He told me years ago about the plans for I-485, and I have to wonder now if it had been built as planned then if it wouldn’t have been helping traffic now?! Soon they will move north about 65 miles and use the “fly over” lanes to go to work! If you build a new highway when good engineers have planned it and get the financing in place it might really be doing you some good in 10-15 years! Oh, and until you can do commuting like the Germans with clean trains and behaving people, I don’t think mass transit will ever really work here!
I've proposed i67. From the 24/75 junction, with a spur to i59/24 junction, follow 27 to Newnan, 85 and 185 to Columbus, 27 again to Tallahassee, east on i10 a bit, then us19 down to the fl121 junction at Lebanon Station and cut around citrus springs to the i75/turnpike junction. Florida bound traffic coming through Chattanooga wouldn't even have to deal with the entire Dalton to Cordelle area, and is far enough out it shouldn't get grown over by Atlanta.
As far as public transit in ATL it means MARTA EXPANSION throughout the metro!!! Heavy rail expansion with extending existing lines as needed. The blue line East to Conyers and west to Douglasville. The green line could be extended east to Stone Mountain and west to Powder Springs or even Dallas. The red line should be extended north through Roswell to Alpharetta and south to Riverdale and Fayetteville. The orange line should extend north to Lawrenceville along the I-85 corridor and south to Fairburn maybe even Palmetto. There should be a new line call it the yellow line that connects Smyrna, Marrietra, and Kennesaw in the north serving Kennesaw State University to Forrest Park, Morrow, and Jonesboro in the south serving Clayton State University using I-75 as it's corridor. This heavy rail system would be the backbone of the Marta system. Light rail using the Atlanta streetcar should expand in high traffic in town corridors with grade separation as to not disrupt street traffic. If not grade separate on certain streets they should have dedicated right of way. We can start with the street car on the Beltline. Extending a line from the existing street car line through Georgia State university Downtown to the southern part of the campus to the new convocation center and the stadium. This line can also swing over the Connector to connect to the Atlanta University Center and then serve areas of south and southwest Atlanta. There could also be a line that extends into Atlantic Station and Upper West Midtown. There are already plans for a street car line that will travel north from the blue line to Emory University and the CDC. This can be extended to connect to the Beltline and back into Downtown and Midtown. There could also be lines that serve Buckhead, Druid Hills, Little 5 Points, Westside Park etc. With all lines connecting to the Beltline line, and connecting to Marta stations where the intersect. Also some of these lines should connect to the Marta main rail hub at the 5 Points station. As for the bus system I would like to see Rapid bus lines in dedicated lanes with dedicated stops along major arterial routes. An example of this could be a rapid bus line up Buford Hwy. And for secondary bus routes. Routed as needed with tranfer hubs around the metro that intersects with the rapid bus line, streetcar light rail lines, and the heavy rail lines. Most of these lines would fan their routes out from these hubs instead of traveling into town. This bus system would include the current bus systems for Cobb and Gwinnett counties. Also the commuter bus system should be expanded where needed. But would need to build out commuter rail lines from the 5 Points multi modal transit center to Athens, Cartersville/Rome, Macon, And Columbus. Between this public transportation system and the freeway system that I wish for I definitely think that could solve ATL's current and future traffic problems. You can tell that I have been thinking about this for a while lol.
I fully agree with your breakdown. Do you know how many times I've considered taking the train to downtown but because I'd have to drive a nice distance to the nearest station, I start thinking to myself that I might as well keep going since I'm much closer to downtown by then.
Public transit + Finishing the original Master plan for the Interstate would definitely solve problems. High Speed Rail will develop in our lifetime, it's already happening in Florida and Texas. It's about time we joined the fun.
Fantastic video. I work right beside 285/400 and have worked in or passed through that area for the better part of 20 years. Your analysis is spot on and it was colossally stupid that the politicians caved on the outer loop. I have lived near various places on that path and I would totally and enthusiastically embrace it (of course I watch RUclips videos about highways so maybe I’m odd! 🤣) I did want to make a few points on MARTA. I’ve become much more open to rail transit since traveling extensively in Europe and seeing their systems at work. But I do not think MARTA the entity is the answer. Because of decades of connection to Fulton and Dekalb, I think it’s a reasonable question if other countries would ever be truly considered equals in a larger MARTA. I’ve argued that MARTA and the county bus systems should be consolidated into a new regional entity, eg MTA or MBTA, and put under the auspices of the state. Also, rather than extend the Marta rail network first, it seems to be that regional commuter rail, leveraging rail corridors could be started much quicker than the MARTA heavy rail network could be grown.
Well said as an Atlanta / Suburbs native born at Northside. One of the things that has always been confusing is with all of the rail right of ways, there was zero effort to implement commuter rail (or at least some option to transfer to Marta). This would be an easy sell if someone could live in Cumming or Hamilton Mill and get on a train and be at the airport in 20 minutes (especially for remote workers).
@@bobbbobb4663 Definitely. Agreed except for one minor point. I don’t think there’s a rail corridor through Cumming. ☹️ As a bit of a rail fan, the closest rail lines that I know of up here are NS through Buford, CSX through Dacula and Lawrenceville, and the lines through Marietta (having lived in Gwinnett and Forsyth nearly all my life I know these area much better than Marietta and Cobb).
First of all people have to remember that the traffic is a way of traveling to the North, East, West and South. Then you have to figure out when the traffic is at its busiest.
GA Dot should grow a pair and use imminent domain to build that outter perimeter in it's entirety. I do not care what any of the residents think about it. Atlanta is a massive bottle neck for commerical traffic. Because we are all forced on the beltway. And there aren't any good ways around Atlanta. Your best bet if you are going sw or ne, use us 129 . It technically connects i20 , i85, and I75 .
We travel from Tennessee to Florida to see family a couple of times a year. It’s gotten so bad we go through Alabama to Columbus, GA. It takes you off interstates much of the way, but most of it is still four lane road. It adds all of an hour to driving time, but most of the route has about 10% of the traffic that you get from Chattanooga to Macon.
This is more the our red-stateness we have to shake off over the years. Gwinnett and Cobb both don't need to worry about crime. *They already have it* and a lot in Gwinnett.
Didn't mention the mayors of north Fulton that shot down Marta expanding over the Chattahoochee River because of traffic concerns from Gwinnett and cobb counties.
Great video Mike. I for one would like to see Marta expansion. It’s a shame Cobb and Gwinnett county won’t allow Marta expansion into their counties. These two counties are two of the three most populous counties in Georgia.
I live outside of Gwinnett. I can tell you that the demographics of that county is RAPIDLY changing. There are a LOT of Korean and Korean Americans there and they are used to outstanding rail travel in Korea. MARTA will be extending to possibly Brasselton and Hamilton Mill soon enough...fingers crossed!
@@theeamazingkrabb5358 Marta doesn't have the money to do that and I doubt the state or the feds would pay for it. Marta has one major problem that can't be resolved easily -- even if they did extend their lines, there is no option for a express version that would skip stops. I have to make 20 stops when I ride Marta from North Springs to the Airport and that would be even worse if they extended the rail line up Ga 400 (which they could do in Fulton County).
@@theeamazingkrabb5358 Hopefully MARTA gets expanded. Because Atlanta Metropolitan Area traffic problems are beyond road and highway expansion helping.
I honestly think they should add another alternate interstate because we already have I-285 and that interstate that is supposed to be an alternative route to miss the absolute madhouse that is I-85 is jam-packed too. How has Atlanta not realized this yet also was that you talking in the video Georgia Mike if so cool voice reveal if it's you.
Mostly because I think the government in Atlanta want people sitting in traffic because it makes them buy gas in Atlanta which is more expensive and of course provides tax revenue......it comes down to money I believe
I live down in Florida and every once in awhile I'll come up to Atlanta for business and I hate it. I don't understand why people want to deal with this everyday it's beyond my understanding....
As a Louisiana resident who occasionally has to travel to the Upstate of SC, I like your analysis and remedy. I have no desire to go to Atlanta, but there's no other way for me to travel - not even a decent 4-lane US highway. An outer beltway would help, say from south of Newnan - Griffin - Covington - Brassleton , or even farther out from Columbus - Macon - Athens. Midwest people going to Florida similarly need a way to go around the west side.
Yeah Atlanta has a centralized strategic location in the South that forces you to go through it to get to most destinations. 285 north of the city is about to be even worse for a while as they're rebuilding the interchange with 400 right now.
@@MileageMikeTravels I commented with my idea, a new interstate from Chattanooga to i75 at the Florida turnpike. A spur from Dalton to Commerce would take a lot of traffic out of the city, too. With 75 through traffic, 85s to 75s, 20e to 75, 20w to 75s, and 75s to 85s traffic not going through the city, should make things much smoother for 85s to 75n, 85 through, and 20 through traffic.
I'm really enjoying your videos. And that's a great question. The only way they can fixed it is more railways, more city transportations which most people won't be able to go where they need to go, and less gas usage. We know gas prices are high now and sadly, it won't dropped anytime soon but less gas usage can stop the polluting issues.
Thanks for your very on-point video. Marta is 50 years behind on expansion. I have ridden Marta for over 20 years and it could help more than anything.
I think you missed a huge contributor to the tragic problem. White flight in the 50s and 60s to the unprepared northern suburbs. While the rest of the country started urban planning in the 70s and 80s to address future needs, GA was stuck dealing with new suburbs popping up and needing to commute back and forth into the city for work. They were forced to build seven lane highways and had few other options. Had GA not experienced White Flight they likely would have performed urban planning and advance and address traffic needs. My two cents.
I enjoyed this greatly Mileage Mike! I hear stories about Atlanta traffic all the time from people who drive from up where I live in Wisconsin down to Florida to escape the chills of winter. They always complain about bottlenecks in Nashville, Chattanooga and of course Atlanta. The problem in a lot of cities is that transportation hasn't been able to adapt to people's commuting habits which have changed over the past couple of decades. Most of the time, when planners plan mass transit systems, the only focus is on downtown. I'm not against that either, I think a healthy downtown benefits the entire metropolitan area but at the same time just focusing on one part of a metro doesn't really address the overall congestion issue either. While many things go on in the middle of Atlanta and other large cities, a lot of people commute suburb to suburb and don't even bother with with the center of the city. I'm not sure if developing the suburbs around the ring roads was the most efficient way we could have done things in America but it is what we did and now, our beltways no longer function as bypasses. I think Houston is the most extreme example of this but it happens all over the place. I have no idea if it is possible to know what percentage of trips end up in Atlanta and the perimeter versus just people driving through because that would be interesting.
Houston was fucked when I moved from there back to ATL in August '89. I lived in ATL from late '74 to November '79, back when Perimeter meant the mall and not an entire small city (Sandy Springs). Norcross and Smyrna were almost rural, and I knew the Langford (dysfunctional) family. I spent a lot of time at the Little Five Points Pub then; great place to avoid disco. For me, Berlin, Germany is one of the most livable cities.
In a satellite view, you can see Carter Presidential Library sits right in the middle of a massive interchange clearing, with the north-south and east-west right-of-ways extending for a quarter mile beyond. It would be interesting to know how many residents and businesses were displaced to make way way for the mostly-unbuilt freeways here.
Public transit, that's the solution, period, and that's not up for debate! And building more roads has never reduced or eased traffic, so that should never be an option for solving traffic because it never solves that issue. And Marta actually has a surplus of funds and has had a surplus for years now. I would also suggest that Marta annex some of the smaller transit networks and take over.
I would offer one proposal to help with congestion in Atlanta. Develop an I-27. It would be a north/south Freeway from Chattanooga to I-10 in Florida following the current US Hwy 27 along the Georgia/Alabama border. When you are funneling traffic from the Midwest and Canada heading to Florida into the region mixed with excessive local traffic you have what we currently experience. Additionally it would provide another option for trucking traffic to avoid Atlanta. There is a State Freeway (The Fall like Expressway) that runs from Columbus, GA to Macon and then syncs with I-16 for a corridor to the busy seaport in Savannah as well as access to Jacksonville.
I67 is the best fit of available numbers. I've had the same idea. From near the 24/75 junction, follow 27, part of it could follow 85 and the current 185, to Tallahassee, then hop east a bit on 10 and follow 19 down the coast, then cut east to the i75/turnpike junction. Add a spur to the 24/59 junction to help alleviate traffic in Chattanooga as well. I27 runs from Abilene to Lubbock, Texas, and i think is slated to become part of the ports-to-prairie project, which will run into the mountains in Colorado.
Racism, the answer is racism. That's why traffic is so bad. The city displaced so many communities and forced people to suburbs forcing traffic. Doesn’t help that the people om the north side time and time again vote against MARTA expansion forcing people to live on the dedicated 50 stops MARTA services or having to drive.... Add a GDoT project that takes years to complete, perfect reciepe for continuous gridlock
![Stroads are Ugly, Expensive, and Dangerous (and they're everywhere) [ST05]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ORzNZUeUHAM/mqdefault.jpg)
Atlanta needs a HUGE expansion of the MARTA rail system! Cars was the transportation of yesterday, rail is the transportation of tomorrow. This expansion needs to have a plethora of stops connecting the ITP. Don’t forget about the OTP connect the rail system with the OTP and watch traffic go down, our carbon emissions will go down, and it would make Atlanta so much more walkable
yeah, nothing better than travelling on the Metro Atlanta Robbery and Thug Authority.
@@nco_gets_it probably more likely to die or get injured driving than on public transportation :)
And more apportinities to push people on the track and rape as other assaults.
Sorry I don’t want Avalon to be the new Buckhead 🔫🧑🏿🦲
@@fl0w3rsofEviL there’s a stigma around Marta in atlanta that’s it is dangerous and unsafe. Most suburbs don’t want Marta because it brings crime to their safe and quaint suburbs. People in atl just prefer driving
Massive and rapid rail expansion is the answer. Regional rail, streetcar lines, rapid transit, and buses are the answer.
They have that.
@@adaminfinity1733 Not enough of it, far from enough.
Yes...yes...yes !! Widening roads or building new ones is never a good solution or an answer. All it does is increase traffic. The answer is rail rapid transit. A system of light rail would be a good choice. The New Jersey Turnpike in Northern New Jersey is twenty lanes wide !! And it's still jammed with traffic day and night. So forget road widening as a solution.
Also, Atlanta years ago had a fabulous network of city and suburban electric streetcar and electric trackless trolley lines. The fools junked it in favor of GM diesel buses. Don't they wish they had it today with the insane cost of diesel fuel now. It's running between $ 5 and $ 6 a gallon.
@@Jeff-uj8xi The US government destroyed all their major cities and rebuilt them for cars instead of people. ALL cities were better back in the day. The solution is to eradicate cars altogether. I hate risking my life just to travel. We need only trains and streetcars: no refueling or crashes.
We need to start a movement here in Metro Atlanta!
there was a proposal for commuter rail in the Atlanta metro about 20 years ago. The map had several hub n spoke lines from downtown to suburbs in all directions. That would’ve helped. Atlanta needs commuter rail, build out MARTA, the Northern Arc. If I had Musk money, I’d completely reconstructed their freeways too, with express lanes in the middle separated by concrete barriers.
Let all through traffic use the express lanes, like i271 around Cleveland.
Chicago express lanes are hurry- up- and- plug- things- up- farther- up lanes.
You'll never build enough lanes without separating through from local traffic.
Commuter rail would not help at all. Most people are traveling THROUGH Atlanta, not to and from Atlanta.
100 percent this would lirally save the environment and make it a much better city
@@rbailey1240 Even a small amount of traffic reduction has a large impact on congestion.
@@rbailey1240 I know years ago they had planned on a outer perimeter and that would relieve the massive amount of traffic that just wants to go thru Atlanta on trips.
From my experience of living in Atlanta for 15 years: You don't need car to get around Atlanta inside of I-285, as MARTA has that pretty well covered. You need the car to go anywhere outside of I-285.
Exactly. All the OTP people complaining about traffic, but it’s because they chose to live in car-oriented suburbs. They cause their own traffic then complain about it. 😅
@@shivtim Well it's not going to help anyone to cram six million people into one small area is it?
@@Jamcad01 Yes, actually. Our most prosperous cities that make the most money are very dense. And ITP Atlanta is not a "small area," it's actually quite huge and has a lot of unused land.
@@shivtim They make the most money because zoning laws concentrate office space in one part of the city, that's the only reason, and not always, it depends on which metro area you're talking about. And how much money is being made isn't everything, quality of life matters and even most suburbs are overcrowded these days. Plantations made a lot of money back in the day, doesn't mean the quality of life was good for the slaves
@@Jamcad01 what a dumb statement. How dare you use slavery as a comparison when we're talking about a majority black city.
Been enjoying your videos for a while now, especially the ones of Florida. My solution for Atlanta and for most other North American cities Is to follow the London model. That is to expand transit services in the inner city and add freeways to the suburbs. Atlanta could also benefit from some commuter rail lines to the suburbs (that also operate OUTSIDE of rush hour) complement MARTA.
Coming up with a plan to solve this is easy. What’s difficult is changing the minds of people who don’t want to see this happen.(NIMBY’s) Like many other cities, it’s a matter of whether there is a drive or desire to change and it seems that they need to find a way to change the hearts and minds of those that stopping this from happening (or just ignoring them for the greater good).
100 % agree
Get rid of cars and replace it with public transit.
I like this. This is a happy medium that makes sense. People will always want suburbs but if they have a quick and efficient way into the city there's no arguing they WILL take the train unless they have a good enough reason to sit in traffic and drive in cramped streets.
Commuter rail would not work in Atlanta. Most people are going THROUGH Atlanta, not to and from Atlanta. A rail network would have to be SO expansive as to be impossible.
@@rbailey1240 They already have a metro network in place. Expanding it seems like a good idea for those that live locally.
From a local Metro Atlanta resident, great video. You pretty much covered all the issues we are stuck with.
The "final/costly" Ga. 400 could happen. Build upward, a second deck, or as mentioned below a 2 lane limited road that is "just passing through" that is elevated. The area doesn't have much seismic activity that would cause catastrophic failure like I-880 in California in 1989. Tunneling would be a chore, the strata underneath the city is solid rock. Thats why underground MARTA expansion is tricky.
An outer loop is/will be built. As mentioned, Hwy 20 is shifting somewhat to that. The Sugarloaf Pkwy limited access extension in Gwinnett has right of way purchased from Hwy 316 to I-85. It will get completed whether the residents want it or not. (I'm near the proposed site, not thrilled about construction, but it needs to happen) There are other right of way purchases from 85 past the Mall of Georgia towards 985 and Hwy 20 as well. If interested check the Gwinnett DOT webpage for more info. NIMBY obstruction will continue to wane as the situation continues to stay as untenable as it is.
One compromise is looping MARTA/rail in the general vicinity of 285 with spurs branching out as short or far as allowed. As the Boomers "phase out" and the area gets more out of towners and locals get damn fed up, something like this can work. Now, would it be MARTA or a regional/county light rail that ties in? That's probably out of my pay grade, but I despise driving into town and I'd be thrilled to take a train if efficient. I took the train from the Indian Creek end station into downtown for school. It works.
And Milage Mike is correct. If you are heading to live in the metro Atlanta area, live near where you work, or you'll be damn miserable. Did that crap for 8 almost, 9 years. Wasn't worth it in the end.
TL/DR: Abandon all hope, ye who move to Atlanta if you want to travel in a timely manner. Or drive around from Midnight to 4:30 am.
An outer perimeter would help a lot. When traveling from South Georgia to any point north such as Chattanooga requires a drive through Atlanta. No other options are available. Also it should be noted that traveling northbound 75 from Macon, the Atlanta congestion starts at Locust Grove, and there's a perpetual choke point a few miles north of McDonough where 75 narrows to 3 lanes and the HOV lanes are always closed. Makes no sense. I've driven in several major cities, and Atlanta is 2nd only to the Big Apple itself in backups. If NYC got rid of its interminable lines at toll booths it wouldn't be too bad, much better than the Atlanta area. Except downtown NYC, which is in a class of horror all to itself.
We don’t have toll booths in NY anymore, but it’s still bad. I-278 is the worst due to the reduction in lanes and tight curves. I-95 has no shoulders. I-495 has the bottleneck between Exits 22 and 31. I-678 has consistent gradients from a depressed to a surface road. And I-878 is ONE WAY! 78 was also never completed through NYC.
To fix the NYC road network, I would propose the following
-I-78 would go through a new Cross Harbor Tunnel from Bayonne and follow the Bay Ridge branch to Linden Blvd. (I578 would take over the spur to the Holland). 78 would terminate at 678, and 878 would become a full freeway.
-I80 would extend over the GWB and take over 295 to the LIE, and take over 495 with Riverhead, connecting with 95 again through the Long Island Sound crossing to New London.
-I 95 would get a bypass from the Alexander Hamilton Bridge along I87 to a new expressway underneath Fordham Rd/Pelham Pkwy.
Actually, Georgia has created some fine rural highways that help take travelers between South Georgia and points north. The Martha Berry Highway, and US 25 both come to mind.
Los Angeles just said "hold my beer"
There's 285 is the perimeter interstate
I would suggest you drive in the Boston metro before you say Atlanta is worse.
until Atlanta moves past it's fears with Marta, don't expect any expansions anytime soon. Marta would also rather focus on BRT these days.
Nah we don’t need Marta up here in canton
Unless there are dedicated bus lanes the full length, BRT won't be bus rapid transit, just a glorified regular bus line.
Nicely done! (I agree with your take on GA-400 to I-675)
Ah the man himself. Yeah they definitely killed the traffic flow of the area by not building that. Appreciate you watching.
Great video. I've noticed a "Bermuda Triangle" section of I-75 that is notorious for accidents between Cartersville and Northeast of Acworth. It seems like nearly every day there are some major pile up. I've even seen four or five all in one day. The only thing I can think of is the exurbs meeting the suburbs and people coming down from Tennessee not used to all the traffic. I-75 really could use some widening up to Cartersville from where it runs out at Barrett Parkway in Kennesaw. The inside shoulder of I-75 is already wide enough to support one more Lane.
I have noticed this too. It always seems to back up somewhere between hwy 92 and Wade Green Rd. Sometimes for no reason. There isn't even a wreck there. It happens between Canton Rd and Marrietta Pkwy too. Also sometimes for no reason. Honestly even though the express lanes help, there needs to be at least one general purpose lane added in each direction from Marrietta to Cartersville.
@@xlxl9440 Yep, I've noticed I-75 SB just past GA-92 always slows in the curve to head SE. There definitely needs to be 1-2 more GP lanes up to GA-20 in Cartersville. The express lanes are nice but I feel like they end too early at Hickory Grove Road. I would have taken them to Glade Road in Acworth. The NB GP lanes tend to back up north of Hickory Grove Road when express traffic is merging.
"The inside shoulder of I-75 is wide enough to support one more Lane."
Except those wide inside shoulders are actually left-hand breakdown and emergency lanes and need to remain clear for those purposes.
@@edwardmiessner6502 no breakdown lanes on bridges and pave a new breakdown lane. Problem solved
@@edwardmiessner6502 The inside shoulders were originally widened by GDOT to be a 4th lane but the project was scrapped under the table after spending $300 million on it.
Expansion of MARTA into Gwinnett, Cobb, and further up 400 would solve a lot of the problems north of the city. Downtown is a little more complicated. Maybe consider a tolled tunnel in the approximate vicinity where I-485 was proposed. Although this would be a monumental undertaking, it would be the only feasible alternative I can think of to condemning thousands of homes and businesses to build a new ground-level highway. When you've got 14 lane highways and are still congested, then it's time to look at alternatives to widening roads.
I say expand MARTA to the metro areas and also expand MARTA inside the ITP. Those sad four rail lines are not enough. It doesn’t even stop at places like Atlantic Station, Six Flags, or Stone Mountain
Building a tunnel would disrupt just as many homes and businesses unless you want to go deep and drill through rock, as someone else said for expanding MARTA. And all connectors for this tunnel must be strictly freeway to freeway with the purpose solely to move traffic through the city.
I have lived in the Atlanta area since 1974 and am familiar how traffic has increased. The real problem is that there are too many people moving here with no roads or alternate transportation to accommodate the increased population.
You mentioned GA 400 being as part of the downtown connector. It actually terminates north of the downtown connector on I-85.
One thing you failed to mention, although you had it highlighted in blue was that US 78, aka Stone Mountain Freeway, was supposed to terminate at the downtown connector but residents in Decatur and further into town were successful to block it before I moved to the area.
You didn't mention I-20. It has become congested over the years as well. There is a free HOV lane on the east side of Atlanta and it goes to I-285. Traffic on I-20 outside I-285 is horrible especially during rush hour.
I-75 South has become just as congested as that on the northside. Reversible toll HOV lanes have been constructed like on I-75 north of I-285. During popular holiday breaks and even at other times, southbound traffic is a parking lot.
I do agree that an outer loop should have been built many years ago.
BTW I have a civil engineering degree and enjoy transportation issues but I am into railroading and worked for a major freight rail system for 30 years.
Norfolk Southern or CSX?
@@scottdowney4865 NS.
Bro I wanna be just like you I’m a civil engineering major as well👍🏾 and I wanna work on MARTA and it’s expansion. That’s cool that you worked for NS
One could argue it's intent is the same, it is clearly part of the 'funnel' called the connector. When first built you cold only go south on 400, connecting with I-85 and very shortly thereafter with I-75.
One idea I have heard discussed as a way to alleviate congestion on the connector is to remove many of the on-ramps and off-ramps. There are currently far too many and they disrupt traffic flow moving through the city. This is particularly noticeable on the Edgewood ave. southbound ramp. If half the ramps were removed in this area it would improve things significantly.
It is unfortunate that Marta has not been allowed to expand into Cobb and Gwinett counties. That change along would at least provide an alternative to commuters. I live in Decatur and am fortunate to have easy access to the train if needed. It really comes in handy when going to/from the airport.
As a person who grew up in Atlanta, traffic is the worst I have ever seen it. Some solutions as far as transit is maybe commuter trains for the places outside the perimeter and expand the Marta network within the perimeter and put transit on the belt line that circles the city it self. People have to stop lacking vision and think if someone else wants to use transit that means less cars on the existing road network. We have stop thinking of transit as being for only poor and lower class folks, and think of it as a way to get around the city. I would personally prefer to save my money from being spent on my car such as gas , car insurance, car notes, etc and be able to put that money to work for building wealth for myself and my family. Atlanta has so much potential but there is a lack of vision.
I live in College Park, towing for 911 in Fulton. It's so brutally insane, people are torn apart and suffer every day from the current system.
I’m at Atlanta resident, thanks so much for this video. I learned a lot from it. Never knew 400 and 675 were supposed to connect! I can’t unsee that now!
FYI there is a difference between HOV and Express Lanes, HOV Lanes (all inside I-285) are free so long as you have 2+ People in a vehicle and were built in the 90s. Express Lanes (all Outside I-285) can be used solo so long as you have a Peach Pass and were built in the 10s, with more to come along GA-400 and I-285 by the end of the decade.
Unfortunately, Express Lanes incentivize single-occupancy vehicles, meaning that more roadway must be constructed to move the same amount of traffic. They also remove one lane of roadway in each direction that could, otherwise, be used by multi-occupant vehicles which cannot afford (or downright refuse) to pay for the Peach Pass.
@@larrygraus2648 They won't remove any of the existing lanes for the I-285/GA 400 Express Lanes, nor did they for the I-75 Express Lanes. As for single occupancy vehicles, not sure that charginbg someone to use something in incentivising but it does go a long way toward paying for the lanes, unlike transit (MARTA) which can't support itself.
@@larrygraus2648 most express lanes don't help with congestion. The vehicles that require the most space and are slowest to react to changes in speed and available space (heavy trucks) are still limited to the lanes with the most speed and space changes- the first two beside the ramps.
I271 in Ohio are the only express lanes I've seen that do any good.
I'm a trucker in Atlanta the simple solution to the traffic problem give people tickets half the traffic is due to people being nosey half the time its a an accident on the southbound side people on the northbound side have to stop the look just an example of course and stop doing road construction in the middle of the day every other state you go to do road construction at night.
Thanks for the video, Mike. It is clear you did your research.
Regarding the highways in the northern part of Atlanta Metro, we start getting into the foothills leading into the Smoky Mountains. The presence of hills, lakes, creeks, and rivers greatly increases the financial cost and logistic difficulties that would be needed for a northern freeway.
To extend 400 or 675 would disrupt businesses, including moving outreach programs people need.
It is not as simple as blaming politicians or even rich people.
The MARTA experience is lousy on bus and rail. Look closer and see successful transit bus programs from counties such as Cobb or Henry. If MARTA was even passable, these would not be needed as much.
The main problem with the connector is the interchange at I-20. The traffic always slows at the Grady Curve. People are always tapping the breaks which has a compounding knock on effect. Then everyone suddenly realizes they have to get all the way over to the right to get on I-20...its a big mess.
Then you have 20 itself coming out of East Atlanta as many people tap on the brakes at the last second to scoot onto the connector ramp, causing gridlock for those wanting to continue west into West Atlanta and jamming traffic back to Moreland (particularly the AM Commute)
Then you have the battle from Connector to 20E with Hill St traffic merging to get on 20 and folks trying to get off the Boulevard Exit (especially the PM commute). Piss poor managing on GDOT's part.
As an out of stater (CA) who traveled to Atlanta recently, I can confirm what Mileage Mike says is accurate and true. I didn't realize Atlanta was a huge ass city very much like Los Angeles. Both are known to have bad traffic and you need a vehicle to get around. I wouldn't live in Atlanta for many reasons. Traffic, the 3-hour ahead thing, and it reminds me a lot of Los Angeles. No thanks!
As someone who's from the Atlanta metro area and has driven through L.A., I have to say you folks give Atlanta a run for it's money when it comes to wild driving.
I live in midtown Atlanta and I walk and bike almost everywhere.
I’m from Atlanta, and recently went to LA. Y’all are a different breed out there lol. I feel like traffic is worse out there
Midtown is fairly small in Atlanta. The problem is the fast growing suburbs and the fact that rich folks would rather spend hours in traffic every single week rather than build an actual commuter rail from Buford, through Gwinnett, and to midtown.
People in Georgia really need to learn how to drive, traffic wouldn’t be so bad if it wasn’t as dangerous
It's honestly baffling to see that most Americans believe that the solution to traffic is to expand highways and build more roads. All this does is promote growth in suburbs that results in more traffic. The only real way to fix these issues is to build cities around public transport. When you focus growth around walkable areas and make it easy to reach by public transport you won't want to get in your car to drive every time you need to leave your house for something
The cities are there, the beat hope now is to separate through traffic from local traffic so one doesn't mess with the other.
But like the engineers who laid i80 over Elk Mountain, they were going to show these yokels how a modern highway works.
They saved 19 miles vs following 30 west of Laramie, last winter they had i80 shut down clear into central Nebraska because of the weather.
Can't have that without mixed-use zoning first.
Seattle was pretty good for me as well. I didn't have a car 5 out of the 6 years I lived there. Between their Link Rail train system (which is expanding further each year to reach the surrounding suburbs) and their bus system, I got around without a hitch. Anywhere I wanted to go. I loved it! Yes it was time consuming. But I didn't have to worry about sitting in traffic or finding/paying for parking. And plus you got to walk around Seattle which is in a beautiful geographic location. The other positive to not being car dependent is you easily stay in shape. I was a good 15 to 20 pounds lighter without even thinking about it. As soon as I got a car I ballooned right on up😭.
Ultimately it's just so freeing getting places on foot and good for you too. Honestly I think Seattle is slept on as a great walkable, bikeable, and public transport American city! It's not London by any means but for us, it's commendable 👍
@chenanigans I absolutely love Seattle. Lived there for a year and I miss it every day. The amount of natural beauty there while also having a nice city was unique and so enjoyable. I hope I get the chance to move back there one day
I recently relocated from Atlanta after living there for 12 years and I’ll be the first to say I’m so happy that I don’t have to deal with that traffic nor the horrible drivers anymore.. 285 & 400 are just nightmares man..
I moved out of the north metro area several years ago, after being born and raised there, as my father and his family was. The traffic was and always has been bad. I was a wrecker driver in the late 80's right out of high school, and I couldn't fathom doing that now in Atlanta.
Now I live in rural northeast Georgia right outside of Athens, and while the traffic situation in the Classic City is in need of some type of relief, it is light-years ahead of Atlanta's situation.
I don't know what the solution is; no one wants to budge on anything in the metro area. I don't believe it will ever get better; it seems they've built themselves into a corner with no hopes of improvement. I'm just happy I don't have to deal with any of that chaos anymore.
If people would get off their phones and move right when not passing then it would be a lot better. There are literally a bunch of people that as soon as they get on 285, immediately go all the way to the 3rd lane or the far left lane and go 50, and stay in that lane until 30 feet from their exit, and cross 3 lanes of traffic to take the exit. I don't know how many times I've passed hundreds of cars at a time by moving to the right lane in traffic. It's like they don't know the right lane exist.
It's too late, the suburbs around Atlanta have not only expanded but have also increased in population density. Any new proposals will face even more oposition. The traffic jams used to stop at Forest Park on the south side, now you fight your way all the way to Macon. Could you take a look at the lightrail project in Milwaukee? Does it have any chance of being anything other than a political boondoggle?
The outer Perimeter would have been a big help.
I had not heard of the GA400 tunnel plans but have long thought that an express (elevated or tunnel) lane through downtown (no exits, just bypassing the connector) would be a huge help.
Improved street signs (larger and centrally positioned above the intersection) would benefit all side streets
Lastly, and my most controversial suggestion, is more vigorous licensing standards for drivers in the metro area. Currently testing occurs on a closed course and only tests for rudimentary vehicle operation. Atlanta's lane discipline and overall knowledge of driving etiquette is woeful. More rigorous and frequent testing would provide the most immediate benefit imo.
Even though I'm late to comment, to me because major cities have traffic jams on its freeways because either they need an outer perimeter, people can't drive, public transits, or the merge tapers. I'm also pretty sure merge tapers is the most reason why it be traffic jams. GDOT and other states that go through this definitely need to revive some cancelled freeway projects. I definitely agree with GA-400 to I-675, otherwise later on, all Hell will break loose with Atlanta traffic if they don't work this out.
The Spaghetti Bowl!! At least only local big trucks are permitted inside I-285, so cars can fight it out Downtown. Many Georgia secondary roads are 2-lanes (one each way) so poor at moving volume traffic (should have looked to NC where many US routes are limited access (on/off ramps). And too late to build a "way-out-beltway" like Boston, Houston, Chicago. Easiest drive through Atlanta ever: when Georgia played Alabama in Mercedes Dome for National Championship, and Georgia was winning (til the third quarter). I crossed Atlanta, I-20, I-285, I-20 in 30 minutes!!
After moving here, I am irritated with the drivers in Atlanta. Drivers here see pedestrians, or rather they don't see pedestrians, as inconveniences. They see red lights and cross walks as "suggestions". It's even worse if you try to bike within the city.
My first time hearing your voice, pretty neat. I’m also a geography enthusiast so that’s also cool :D
Atlanta and the Georgia DOT did a piss poor job planning for the future. I remember back in the early 90s that a second loop was proposed but it never Happened.
You look at the Dallas/Ft Worth Metroplex, they've built new Freeways/ tollways especially to the north where the population has exploded at a very high rate over the past 3 decades.
I truly believe believe Dallas and the Texas DOT planned for the future. Dallas Area Rapid Transit (DART) has a high speed rail service from Downtown Dallas up to Plano.
Yeah Texas does a much better job at building infrastructure than Georgia. In Georgia everyone seems against any transit or highway expansion to help address the issues around Atlanta.
Sigh. Until we can get the rich folk in northern Gwinnett to agree to expand Marta, it’ll never get better. More lanes of traffic are a bandaid to a sinking ship.
Fantastic video! Your sense of humor is also great. I would love to see more of this content about Atlanta. Although there are many things I love about Atlanta, I have to say the traffic makes me want to move away asap. Not to mention the expected population influx you mentioned, which there is just no way that the city and metro area can handle. Things are going to get really, really, REALLY bad before they get better. If they do get better. In 10 years, this nightmare will only be worse, not to mention the heartbreaking gentrification and housing crisis that seems to be on some perpetual feedback loop. In my opinion, the residents and descendants of (mostly) northern suburbs are now feeling the effects of their racism daily as they sit in an urban planning nightmare trading hours of their lives for frustration and anger. Yet, do they even realize? And it seems they don't bat an eye at the irony of driving down to MARTA stations in the communities they want to avoid contact with to use them rather then be part of the system and help everyone. Sorry for the rant, it's just mind boggling.
Its just too many people moving here. We are full up. Please try a different state. We have reached capacity of terrible drivers.
Spent a lot of time in Atlanta growing up being from New Jersey since I have a lot of family down there. Every time I went I was always amazed on just how massive the interstate going through Downtown ATL was (7 lanes!), and how I-20 seriously is a massive part of the traffic buildup
I'm 2 hours from Atlanta I 20 is a nice sized highway from where i live and get you through a good part of the state but when you get up to Atlanta it's just traffic lock. No one in this state likes to drive-through Atlanta
It was a huge mistake when they planned the interstates to go right through downtown Atlanta.
@@shivtim Atlanta was not that big when they designed the freeway system back in the 40’s and 1950’s. They had no way of knowing Atlanta would boom in 40 to 50 years down the road.
285 been the same forever. All semi trucks are forced to use it. A lot of traffic is passing through ATL because you have to go through there to get to other cities and areas. ATL needs an outer loop preferably a toll loop.
Interesting video Mike!!! This traffic directly affects me since I live in Cartersville, GA one of those exurbs about 40 miles northwest of ATL up I-75. Development keeps creeping up from Achworth while the Cartersville area is growing fast on its own. Soon my town will look like every other part of ATL only surrounding Lake's Allatoona and Achworth. Fortunately I work from home, but I do occasionally have to go into the office in Sandy Springs. And I like doing stuff in ATL so this is a big issue for me.
Cartersville is a nice town. I visited there because of my interest in my family history.
Good video on a worthy topic Mike. I suggest there are additional causes that should also be addressed. (1) Atlanta Public Schools are terrible. This directly impacts traffic. How? The quality of education is poor. Because of this, many people who work in the city choose to live in the suburbs (where the schools are better), forcing them to drive 20-40 miles per day to work. More road miles=more congestion. (2) Traffic in the suburbs is often just as bad as traffic in the city. This is heavily influenced by gated neighborhoods and cul-de-sacs. I grew up in Kansas, where the streets are all laid out in a grid. If one street gets too congested, it's a simple matter to take a detour to the next street. In Atlanta, there are many neighborhoods with 500+ homes, with only one or two entrances to the neighborhood and cul-de-sacs designed to reduce through traffic. With this approach, if a street gets congested, the detour may take you miles out of your way. (3) Mass transit is indeed a great idea. I've lived and worked in Chicago and NYC. Both cities have excellent mass transportation. MARTA is not like those systems. In Chicago and NYC, trains are within walking distance of your origin and destination. In Atlanta, you must first drive to a MARTA station, park, then wait for the train. This process often results in a longer commute than by car alone. More important, MARTA sometimes feels unsafe. I've never felt unsafe on trains in Chicago or NYC, but several times my wife and I have chosen to get off a MARTA train due to fights on the train or in the station with no security or police presence in the area. Could MARTA be fixed? Probably. I'm merely saying this is more than a matter of building more mass transit. It must also feel safe or people with cars will not use it. Finally, to your point in the video, I would love to know who decided it was a good idea to intersect two major interstate highways in the middle of the city. Not only do they intersect, but they also share 7 miles of roadway. That was a huge mistake, even when the city was much smaller than it is today.
Thanks. That’s interesting, I’ve never really heard the education perspective before. Granted, I don’t have kids yet so it’s not usually something I personally consider, it’s good to hear from those who do. It definitely makes sense as quality of schools can often be a the very top of the list when families choose where to live. The development style of those suburbs is why I do think additional highways need to be built, mainly an outer perimeter or at a minimum, a northern arc. Transit can’t really connect that type of development efficiently. I have some family in the northern suburbs who’ve said similar about MARTA and that they still drive to work because they’d have to drive to/from the station anyway. What’s strange to me about MARTA is that it has no state funding. It seems a police presence could be added if it were better funded I’d assume? I’ve been on the route from Sandy Springs to Downtown a few times and I know what you mean about it feeling uneasy at some points. I’m fine as a man but I could see why a guy wouldn’t want his wife or kids on it.
MARTA is wild, they need bouncers. Also I'm not 100 percent on it but i think everyone here drives like shit.
Sales taxes and property taxes also influence people to move outside of Atlanta.
The best solution would be expanding MARTA, but since that won't happen anytime soon, I'm not really sure what else can be done. Widening highways doesn't solve traffic anywhere, but Atlanta's geography makes it even worse. While other Sun Belt cities that developed more recently and are in flatter areas like Houston, Dallas, and Phoenix can just expand outwards, the topography of Atlanta limits that, so the only choice is to build new developments wherever they can find the land. That just increases capacity on the existing road networks that are already filled to the brim. Among fast-growing Southern cities, Atlanta is unique in that it's an older city in a mountainous area with limited opportunities for construction of new areas, except in the exurbs like Cherokee and Forsyth County.
Population expansion without infrastructure upgrades is what's really killing Atlanta, and it's not just a problem in the suburbs. A prime example of this is West Midtown, where they developed an area of derelict warehouses into a yuppy-style high-end neighborhood. But there's no transit, and the roads are just simple two-lane arterial roads that now see endless congestion because there's no other transportation option. I've also seen in Midtown where they removed all breakdown lanes to allow more room for traffic. The issue is that now there's nowhere to pull over, so a stopped car will just stop in the middle of the lane, and people who don't realize it will have to change lanes quickly, which actually causes more congestion.
Competency tests for drivers also wouldn't hurt 😂. I swear, Atlanta has by far the worst drivers of any city I've ever been to lol.
Most of Cherokee and Forsyth are not exurbs but are true outer suburbs. If you were to have stated this back around the late 90s or early 2000s, you'd have been correct. North Cherokee and parts of west and east Cherokee are exurban, but that's only about half of the land in the county. Most of Forsyth County's exurban area in the northwestern part of the county is on its way to being full on suburban within ten or so years.
I've loved your videos for years now so it's nice, although a little strange lol, to be able to picture a voice with the channel. This was a very informational video and a very hot topic! Nicely done!
I’ve always said it needed a loop around 285! I had designed something similar and even had traction with a petition going back in 2014. It’s similar to the lay of Houston with Beltway 8.
I live in Atlanta and saw Houston for the first time a few years ago as a truck driver. I said the exact same thing: why can't Atlanta have a 2nd belt around it?
@@sameenergy9414 Houston has FOUR. Atlanta has horrible traffic. Houston is actually denser than ATL since they have more highways. Los Angeles and houston are denser than ATL and Raleigh since they have more highways so builders build denser homes between the highways. In the exurbs the only way to attract people to commute an hour and a half is to give everyone a half acre and a 4000 sqft home. 4000 sqft and a half acre are good imo but the anti “urban sprawl” activists actually caused MORE sprawl with their smooth brainery
An outer loop of Atlanta would be SO HELPFUL! They need to start building that! If only GDOT hadn't scrapped that, there'd be less traffic jams in ATL! GDOT also needs to build future I-14! I also agree with your take on GA-400 to I-675! GDOT also needs to revive I-485 and I-420!
My comment had some of the same interstates. Where can I find more info about I-485 and I-420?
@@w-josh, you can find them on Wikipedia. On Atlanta freeway revolts.
More roadways would just cause more traffic. Metro-Atlanta is becoming too big to just rely on cars
Also they need to reevaluate their drivers education program because some drivers need lessons in courtesy and etiquette on the highway
There was a plan in the early 90s for a new loop but politics played a roll in killing that.
North of I-20, I-620. South of I-20 I-820.
If I-420 we're to be signed, imagine how many signs will be stolen.
It can be fixed with more trains, bike lanes and cycle tracks, and walkable neighborhoods with safe sidewalks.
Don't forget multi-use zoning!
As a person that lives just outside of Atlanta, traffic is a massive struggle almost the entire day you cant imagine the accidents, construction, and density in some areas 😫
I just started my freshman year of college in ATL. I grew up with the Capital Beltway and know my way around gridlock… and still wasn’t prepared. After 2 weeks here that mythical outer beltway can’t come soon enough 😂😂😂
Take your classes between the rush hours. Between 12-2pm the traffic is liveable. Outside that and you’ll be stuck in gridlock.
Nashville (where I live) is another city that exemplifies explosive growth that is occurring in the south. It's basically a mini-Atlanta in that sense with 3 major freeways going through it as well. Nashville even has a small amount of rail service to its east side, but a proposal to build more rail service was shot down by political hostility (most of it having basically no local relation to Nashville at all). Also, if that ginormous 840 loop were actually completed around the city as originally envisioned, it could have possibly been the longest beltway in the country, but the state gave up on the idea of building it north of I-40 due to the notoriously rocky terrain in that area (which would have made building the highway there enormously expensive). In general, suburbia has shown a lot of hostility toward allowing new highways to be built, and where they did get built, they got built in sections where there wasn't enough opposition to the idea. On that point, I doubt much more of what happened in the beginning of the interstate highway age will repeat itself as many affluent black neighborhoods were basically destroyed and rendered to third-world status when those highways were built.
Yeah Nashville is another good one. I’d like to do a similar video discussing the traffic and transportation there once I get a chance to spend some more time out there.
Only thing the HOV lanes did was put the passing lane on the right shoulder. They do nothing but disrupt, just like Nashville. Useless.
We need a second loop around Atlanta.
Yes
I’d say the ring should be from Covington to Villa Rica/ Douglasville East to West, and Acworth/ Cartersville to McDonough or Locust Grove south
This is what I think I-85 should be in Georgia.
I-85 Should be expanding from 3 lanes from GA state line to near exit 35 near Grantville, GA. I-85 is fine until after the I-285 interchange in College Park. Expand I-85 to 4 lanes from I-285 to Langford Pkwy. Make a collector distributor for exits 76 & 77. Use the right Lane for Langford Pkwy, The left 2 lanes for I-85 North. 2nd To Right Lanes will be a choice lane. Exits 247 - 249 should be a collector distributor system. Have Two lanes to get on Buford Connector, one being a choice lane. Have more signs showing that the right Lane is exiting to 400. Add another lane to the Greenville Ramp. I-85 is good until exit 126 where it narrows to 3 lanes. I-85 Should be 3 lanes (in each direction) to the SC border (parts of it are already being widened)
Having lived there for many years until relocating to FL ... I often joked that "Atlanta" is an old Chicopee Indian word meaning "Land of Many Orange Barrels". LOL
The solution is expensive but must be done unless they want Atlanta to collapse.
1. Downtown Alternative- Release pressure off Downtown Highway.
2. Outer Perimeter- This Should have been done in the 80s, mid 90s at the latest since the mass growth of Atlanta was known even back then. A Perimeter road or possibly 2 should be built to allow an actual bypass of Atlanta.
3. Expand MARTA- Atlanta had a good idea but it needs State backing to get off the ground. Local public transit is a viable option.
4. Regional Rail- Rail can connect Atlanta to other nearby Cities getting cars off the road.
5. Inter Regional Rail- Conect Atlanta to other Major cities with High Speed Rail.
This affects me because I'm an hour from Atlanta. An outer perimeter would help so much for me so I could bypass Atlanta when going to Chattanooga or going to Greenville/Spartanburg. GDOT needs to start major construction ASAP. I-14, an outer perimeter, GA 400, GA 400/285 interchange, etc.
We need to invest a regional train system Chattanooga/ Macon/ Greenville etc, and commuter rail to service the exaburbs
I agree!
@@oxigeno05 Atlanta is a crossroads city. You can build as many train rail systems as you like it would do nothing for the congestion. Marta is not that bad and let's be honest mostly poor that can't afford the expense of a car use. Your chances of getting robbed or murdered are probably triple using Marta. I've been on Marta and trust me stopping downtown near the grayhound bus station and the local strip club will detour any sane non desperate human being from ever doing it again. You can get around pretty well if side streets are utilized. Commercial (truck) traffic is a major issue. Most of those truck's are passing through heading to Florida, Nashville, Chattanooga, Greenville etc. They are forced to use 285 thus creating the wall of traffic
@@mike-sk2li the right two lanes of 285, the worst lanes for through traffic, being the ones most affected by ramp traffic.
@@mike-sk2li funny you talk about safety, and thinking MARTA is unsafe compared to cars. Look up how many deaths and injuries there are each year. MARTA is waaaaay safer than driving.
The problem with any potential solution is that construction times will be so long that it will be out of date before it is finished. Where I live, thee are proposals that are out of date already, and planning hasn't even begun.
Yes I know you're talking about I live in Gwinnett County and the traffic is just horrible in the county itself.
An extensive rail system is the answer, and that was learned over a century ago. New York City, population of 8 million, moves over 5 million people a day via the subway (pre-pandemic). Just like BART of San Francisco, Atlanta should have built their initially planned system decades ago. Now both metro areas are regretting it. The Bay Area had an extensive rail system before BART, but those tracks were ripped up--and sadly, that's another story in itself.
I drive a semi and take 285 all the time between 5 am an around 11pm it always seems to be jacked up. I think they honestly should make a commercial only by-pass lanes kinda like 95 through jersey. As for that downtown mess ?
Looking at Atlanta it needs a lot of highway and railway infrastructure:
1. An Outerbelt Expressway to capture through traffic and distribute regional traffic.
2. Additional spoke freeways between The Perimeter and the suggested Outerbelt Expressway.
3. Commuter rail on every active railroad track!
4. Extensions of the existing MARTA subway lines and building Additional lines within the city. Areas around all stations should be zoned for walkable higher densities. Huge parking lots, endless single family home developments, strip malls, and office parks cannot generate ridership!
5. Make MARTA safe! Others are complaining about crime on the MARTA.
The USA is a country with a culture that loves the automobile. Mass transportation won't work here...NYC is the only place it does and that's because it is unlike any other American city, and even then on the outskirts of the boroughs everyone uses a car.
Significant changes in roadway design/planning, in conjunction with population growth deterrents in the cities (keep people from moving to the major Sun Belt cities), are the only ways to ameliorate these issues.
Transit could work, especially inside the Perimeter, but there must be an incentive to use it.
Victor W great point i lived in atlanta for fifteen years a transplant from san diego california mass transit will not work there it would just cause more congestion, all the streets in atlanta coming off the interstate feeding the city are one way each direction, the 75, 85, 285 coming into downtown are 4-5 lanes thick and then all of sudden are choked off leading in, the bypass 400 is was a temporary fix not anymore, there are too many other traffic issues to go into, this city was never designed for this amount of influx of people and their cars
Victor... Smh, you're not that bright. Mass transit IS the answer. How many of your uncles gotta die in a car crash for you to realize that? The US government destroyed all their major cities and rebuilt them for cars instead of people. ALL cities were better back in the day. The solution is to eradicate cars altogether. We need only trains and streetcars: no refueling or crashes.
Induce demand does not fix traffic. Take a look at Paris metro and commuter rail system. Suburbs to suburbs connections can be possible by rail, tram, BRT, bikeways, and other mobility modes. Cars can not fix traffic, they add traffic. Marta has the money to expand highway BRT routes on a frequent schedule. People would benefit transit over cars regardless what the traffic is.
Georgia is providing a tax rebate for its residence. Of course everyone likes getting a tax rebate, but many don't realize the true cost. They don't connect the rebate with the lack of funds needed to improve urban and suburban infrastructure. I would love to drive to my Acworth home from points south without getting stuck in the MCDonough parking lot. Traffic builds miles before the lexus lanes. But hey, I can take the fam out to dinner with that rebate.
Lol "Lexus lanes." I seen an article on Miami's express lanes saying how express lanes are not Lexus lanes
Also you're right about the traffic building up. I hate that traffic and I've been in it
That's the thing thought, we don’t want to foot the bill to Fix problems Atlanta could have prepared for cheaper back in the 80s/90s but chose not to. Using eminent domain to build the infrastructure would look bad but worked out in the long run. Instead we're looking at a several billion dollar project that the rest of the State will have to pay for. We have projects that need funding but for every new lane in Atlanta another part of the state gets it's bridge replacement pushed back or it's road rebuilding turned into a pothole patch job.
Was trying to avoid Atlanta travelling south on 75 to Columbus GA in late June. Was on interstate around Atlanta when travel come to a crawl after an entrance ramp. Something I had never seen before some people turned their autos around and went up the entrance ramp. The traffic started moving shortly after but their was no sign of why traffic stopped.
I'm a trucker that drives through Atlanta atleast once a week. It's not that bad. I actually like I-285 compared to other beltways. It's one of the few beltways that you can pick a lane and stay in the same lane all the way around the city. It's all about picking the correct lane early before you reach the congested areas and staying in your lane. Atlanta needs more signs to let people know what lane they should be in. As it is, you don't know what lane you need until the last mile and it causes traffic to start last minute lane changes and increase congestion. It also helps if you drive polite and allow other vehicles to merge. I've traveled it so many times that I know what lane is best but unfortunately other drivers that do not frequent Atlanta do not know. I've gotten pretty good at spotting vehicles that I intuitively know are in the wrong lane and anticipate their actions before even they know what their gonna do. I always let vehicles merge and I only ask that you signal. No turn signal and you can go into the gaurd rail for all I care. I pride myself on being a defensive and forgiving truck driver but if you won't give me the courtesy of a turn signal than you can eat my bumper.
I always signal lane changes and do my best to let trucks merge just before the I-75S/I-285 interchange. I pay attention to turn signals on trucks and slow down so that the truck can get in front of me. You guys work hard and I do what I can.
I'm a local Atlanta truck driver and I have no idea what you're talking about. Pick a lane? Don't know which lane? It's the right lane. Unless you're passing, use the goddamn right lane. If not, then at least keep it moving. Don't be one of these guys I use the right lane to pass all day long in my truck that only goes 70.
@@meizhongbai I never pass in the right lane. It's not safe. Of course I do my best to keep it moving because my clock is ticking. I believe the speed limit is 65 mph on 285. The farthest right lane is for traffic to enter and exit onto or from 285 and no trucks allowed in the left lane. I obey all the rules. Most of 285 is 3 lanes and I stay in the 3rd lane to the right to go around the city. It's not rocket science. To say "it's the right lane" doesn't make sense. The right lane is for exiting and entering the freeway. You can't stay in the right lane the whole time but you can pick a lane that does not require you to constantly be switching lanes, maintain a relative constant speed and is completely legal. If you haven't figured out which lane that is than I suggest you pay better attention to your surroundings when driving. Pick the correct lane as soon as possible when your exit is approaching and change lanes safely rather than at the last moment like so many local drivers do. The 5th lane from the right works for exiting and entering 285 from 20, 75 and 85 that allows you to go north, south, east or west. Again, count the lanes next time you're getting on or off 285. Don't know if it's just coincidence or if GA DOT designed it that way but it works from all directions and all interstate highways entering or exiting 285. Not sure why "pick" is confusing. Pick, choose, decide or take. Whatever word works for you.
Example: Going 75 south to 285. If you get in the far right lane you would expect the lane to be going west but it doesn't. The east and west ramps criss-cross so the right lane actually takes you east. That creates confusion and there is only a single sign less than a quarter mile from the exit ramp to notify drivers. People often realize at the last moment they are in the wrong lane. I've seen it a thousand times. On the other hand, I picked the correct lane 5 miles back when there was no traffic and have been safely cruising with no further lane changes required. If you stay in the 5th lane on 75, the lane splits and you can go left or right to go east or west on 285. And it works in the opposite direction going from 285 onto 75. The 5th lane splits and let's you go left or right on all the interstates 20, 75, 85 and 285 coming or going. That's what I mean by "pick" your lane early. As a truck driver I'm sure you can understand that weaving in and out of lanes is not safe. Knowing where you're going and maintaining your lane is more important than going as fast as possible. It's also a lot less stressful.
Not all beltways are like that. Where you can just "pick" a specific lane and stay in it all the way around. Houston, Dallas and Chicago come to mind. There is no single lane that goes all the way around. Whether you're in the far right or far left or even the middle lane, eventually it will come to an end and you will have to merge or change lanes left or right to continue around the city.
@@Hippiekinkster And believe me the truckers appreciate it. Overall I think Atlanta drivers are courteous to truckers.
@@jamesrevell6475 the right lane is not for entering and exiting traffic! You move over if traffic is entering, then you move back when possible. In high traffic, you would have to change lanes often, so in that case, yes just stay in second lane, but don't stay there indefinitely. After you pass the heavy traffic, go back to the right lane. Trucks are only allowed in the first 2 lanes. Don't live in the 2nd lane, no trucks can ever legally pass you!
Looking from the outside, from the perspective of someone who quite some time ago worked a summer in Atlanta, loved the city, saw the problems there, one thing that I think holds it back is precisely what you've mentioned in the video without really mentioning it, that Atlanta is made up of a number of counties. I'm all for local democracy, but you can't run an entire city the size of Atlanta with it being so fragmented with so many competing interests at play, nothing will ever get done.
Cities like New York, Chicago, and in my own country London, Manchester, Birmingham, they all plan their infrastructure for the good of the whole city (usually, local issues still come into play, but you can't just opt out like seems to be the case here, if you live in a wealthy suburb). Until this is fixed it's like swimming against the tide, meaning things will eventually get done, but they'll probably not be the best solution and might not even fix the issue as by then things have changed and there are even bigger things that need fixing.
What I would say is that an integrated public transport system is needed that, and this is important, games people where they need to go. Cars need to be taken off the road. According extra lanes for those with money to speed by sounds like a terrible decision that solves nothing. And hereby lies the problem, in the US no one wants to pay taxes (the rich get away with paying next to nothing), this solution just shows those who can afford it to speed by, that isn't a solution, who the hell allowed this to be implemented???
To build a functioning public transport infrastructure that Atlantans could be proud of costs money. It could be done in stages and with the right people in charge Atlanta could move into the 21st city. When I was there it wasn't long after they hosted the Olympic Games. It should have been done then and it would have put the city on the map once and for all. I visited some of the decaying remnants of the games, it was sad. I feel the city has been mostly forgotten about by the outside world. It's a great place with great people. MARTA I found to be pretty good, but very limited in where you could go quickly and efficiently.
WHO THOUGHT it was a good idea to MERGE 2 very busy freeways into 1 GIGANTIC superhighway?!
Now EVERYTHING is congested!
Metro Atlanta's population was only 631,000 in 1955 so it wasn't a big issue when the plans were originally made.
Houston had a similar starting point to Atlanta, but Houston was able to catch up with its growth by expanding its freeways, building 2 beltways, and keeping different freeways SEPARATE. Why didn't Atlanta?
@@flydragon7256 short answer is the NIMBY's!
Houston is another mess, now Texas DoT is proposing a huge expansion that will destroy huge swaps of neighborhoods. It just shows that freeways not the solution for the inner city traffic. More lanes induce more demand is not sustainable, is fail experiment from the 1950s that we just keep repeating unfortunately.
@@xlxl9440 even with NIMBYs, Houston finished its 2nd loop (Beltway 8) and is building the 3rd (Parkway 99).
If Atlanta instituted a Congestion Charge, to enter the city limits, similar to what's done in London England and other cities, it would encourage suburbanites to leave their cars outside the city and ride MARTA bus and rail (or perhaps carpool), which would have a positive knock-on effect of having Cobb and Gwinnett be more receptive to approving MARTA extensions, and thus improving the overall commute for northern suburb residents. It would also add money to Atlanta City's coffers, which are struggling, especially if more parts of Atlanta (like Buckhead) leave the city.
That’s actually a pretty good idea. I don’t think the politicians in the area would have the will to do it though.
Someone will shout racism.
Add an "I-420 Loop" to circuit I-20 bypass traffic to the South around Atlanta and I-285, in the same manner that "I-840" routes Nashville I-40 bypass traffic around the city center. In Atlanta, the crossings of I-20, I-85 and I-285 create traffic congestion, much the same as the crossings of I-65, I-40 and I-24 did in Nashville, TN, until the I-840 loop started to carry I-40 bypass traffic away from the city center.
Never seen this channel, what a cool idea for a channel!
First comment! This video is very informative and useful. Thanks mike!
400 through the city (and the Presidential Parkway linking the Connector to the Stone Mountain Freeway) never _should_ be built. Roads there would further destroy the character of the city undone by the Connector and I-20, and sacrifice the healing urban fabric of close-in neighborhoods in favor of through traffic.
I worked as part of a campaign to defeat the Northern Arc back in the early 2000s. That, in hindsight, was a mistake - but what gave fuel to opponents of the Arc was a sentiment (based on experience) that state institutions would never, never quit prioritizing road spending over everything else: not in the city, not in the burbs, not in the exurbs.
I think one _could_ solve a ton of problems with the Outer Perimeter, and something like that desperately needs to get built. One also needs to reduce induced demand for through roads in the city, though - and I’d suggest doing that, after or in tandem with completion of an outer bypass, by directing traffic on I-20 east of MLK and west of Glenwood, and I-75 & 85 south of Lindbergh & Howell Mill and north of University, onto an improved and reconnected surface grid. (North-south stadium and airport traffic could be served by completion of a tunnel with limited access through midtown, downtown, and Summerhill using some I-85 access road and Connector right of way.)
The through interstates could be redirected to the Outer Perimeter routes - or, more likely in the case of I-20, to the southern leg of I-285.
Last, for further through-traffic relief, the state DOT could go ahead and fund the Fall Line Freeway connecting Columbus, Macon, and Augusta (perhaps intercepting I-85 directly if Alabama can be persuaded to continue the road west to Opelika).
My observations moving to Atl from the midwest 10yrs ago:
Get rid of cul de sac neighborhoods that force everyone to pack secondary roads.
Put your kids a the bus at first grade and charge parents for the privilege of driving onto school property. Start teaching the next generation to use public transportation now.
My 2c
Moved from Johns Creek up north to Midtown. Can see my condo a couple times in the video. Saved a ton in gas but that cancels out with the expensive HOA. Nice to be able to walk to work in 10 minutes though. Not missing the traffic, gridlock, nor the terrible driving. I used to blame the bad drivers but realized it's the civil engineers who designed the roads who are to be blamed. The poor signage, confusing lane management and exit planning, and overall road design - that's mostly what leads to the drivers swerving across so many lanes and exiting at the last second.
If they'll expand 24 from Chattanooga to Augusta passing north east of Atlanta it would help a lot
Wow. Yes
it is proven fact that the only thing that reduces traffic is providing alternative transportation options. building out the freeway network (which is quite frankly already overbuilt) and adding more lanes to existing highways will only make traffic worse as atlanta grows. you take people off the roads and put them in train cars and you’ll see less traffic. that is something this video is missing
To MM from WC, my son lives in ATL , Lawrenceville, then Smyrna, in his early years 1991+ he lived NE off I-85 and was given the opportunity to ride MARTA free! After a few months he went back to his truck, what does that tell you? After marriage he & his wife moved to Smyrna. Over the years he got to tide his bike, then to near Spaghetti Junction, and now to Marietta to go to work! He told me years ago about the plans for I-485, and I have to wonder now if it had been built as planned then if it wouldn’t have been helping traffic now?! Soon they will move north about 65 miles and use the “fly over” lanes to go to work! If you build a new highway when good engineers have planned it and get the financing in place it might really be doing you some good in 10-15 years! Oh, and until you can do commuting like the Germans with clean trains and behaving people, I don’t think mass transit will ever really work here!
I've proposed i67.
From the 24/75 junction, with a spur to i59/24 junction, follow 27 to Newnan, 85 and 185 to Columbus, 27 again to Tallahassee, east on i10 a bit, then us19 down to the fl121 junction at Lebanon Station and cut around citrus springs to the i75/turnpike junction.
Florida bound traffic coming through Chattanooga wouldn't even have to deal with the entire Dalton to Cordelle area, and is far enough out it shouldn't get grown over by Atlanta.
As far as public transit in ATL it means MARTA EXPANSION throughout the metro!!! Heavy rail expansion with extending existing lines as needed. The blue line East to Conyers and west to Douglasville. The green line could be extended east to Stone Mountain and west to Powder Springs or even Dallas. The red line should be extended north through Roswell to Alpharetta and south to Riverdale and Fayetteville. The orange line should extend north to Lawrenceville along the I-85 corridor and south to Fairburn maybe even Palmetto. There should be a new line call it the yellow line that connects Smyrna, Marrietra, and Kennesaw in the north serving Kennesaw State University to Forrest Park, Morrow, and Jonesboro in the south serving Clayton State University using I-75 as it's corridor. This heavy rail system would be the backbone of the Marta system. Light rail using the Atlanta streetcar should expand in high traffic in town corridors with grade separation as to not disrupt street traffic. If not grade separate on certain streets they should have dedicated right of way. We can start with the street car on the Beltline. Extending a line from the existing street car line through Georgia State university Downtown to the southern part of the campus to the new convocation center and the stadium. This line can also swing over the Connector to connect to the Atlanta University Center and then serve areas of south and southwest Atlanta. There could also be a line that extends into Atlantic Station and Upper West Midtown. There are already plans for a street car line that will travel north from the blue line to Emory University and the CDC. This can be extended to connect to the Beltline and back into Downtown and Midtown. There could also be lines that serve Buckhead, Druid Hills, Little 5 Points, Westside Park etc. With all lines connecting to the Beltline line, and connecting to Marta stations where the intersect. Also some of these lines should connect to the Marta main rail hub at the 5 Points station. As for the bus system I would like to see Rapid bus lines in dedicated lanes with dedicated stops along major arterial routes. An example of this could be a rapid bus line up Buford Hwy. And for secondary bus routes. Routed as needed with tranfer hubs around the metro that intersects with the rapid bus line, streetcar light rail lines, and the heavy rail lines. Most of these lines would fan their routes out from these hubs instead of traveling into town. This bus system would include the current bus systems for Cobb and Gwinnett counties. Also the commuter bus system should be expanded where needed. But would need to build out commuter rail lines from the 5 Points multi modal transit center to Athens, Cartersville/Rome, Macon, And Columbus. Between this public transportation system and the freeway system that I wish for I definitely think that could solve ATL's current and future traffic problems. You can tell that I have been thinking about this for a while lol.
You are so, so right !!
"PUBLIC TRANSIT....TAKE TWICE A DAY TO RELIEVE TRAFFIC CONGESTION"
I fully agree with your breakdown. Do you know how many times I've considered taking the train to downtown but because I'd have to drive a nice distance to the nearest station, I start thinking to myself that I might as well keep going since I'm much closer to downtown by then.
Public transit + Finishing the original Master plan for the Interstate would definitely solve problems. High Speed Rail will develop in our lifetime, it's already happening in Florida and Texas. It's about time we joined the fun.
@@Jeff-uj8xi that's not what he was saying a*shole
Fantastic video. I work right beside 285/400 and have worked in or passed through that area for the better part of 20 years. Your analysis is spot on and it was colossally stupid that the politicians caved on the outer loop. I have lived near various places on that path and I would totally and enthusiastically embrace it (of course I watch RUclips videos about highways so maybe I’m odd! 🤣)
I did want to make a few points on MARTA. I’ve become much more open to rail transit since traveling extensively in Europe and seeing their systems at work. But I do not think MARTA the entity is the answer. Because of decades of connection to Fulton and Dekalb, I think it’s a reasonable question if other countries would ever be truly considered equals in a larger MARTA. I’ve argued that MARTA and the county bus systems should be consolidated into a new regional entity, eg MTA or MBTA, and put under the auspices of the state. Also, rather than extend the Marta rail network first, it seems to be that regional commuter rail, leveraging rail corridors could be started much quicker than the MARTA heavy rail network could be grown.
Well said as an Atlanta / Suburbs native born at Northside. One of the things that has always been confusing is with all of the rail right of ways, there was zero effort to implement commuter rail (or at least some option to transfer to Marta). This would be an easy sell if someone could live in Cumming or Hamilton Mill and get on a train and be at the airport in 20 minutes (especially for remote workers).
@@bobbbobb4663 Definitely. Agreed except for one minor point. I don’t think there’s a rail corridor through Cumming. ☹️ As a bit of a rail fan, the closest rail lines that I know of up here are NS through Buford, CSX through Dacula and Lawrenceville, and the lines through Marietta (having lived in Gwinnett and Forsyth nearly all my life I know these area much better than Marietta and Cobb).
OMG my husband is your twin! He is also a Civil Engineer and what I call a “map nerd”. Enjoyed the video!
Haha nice. Civil engineer seems like the natural field of choice when you love this stuff.
Just wait till you drive to LA AND NY traffic you will understand the true meaning of bad traffic
Can’t wait to find out!
LOL, Chicago is the worst. I used to truck across the country and LA and NYC is a cakewalk by comparison. ALL the major interstates merge in Chicago.
First of all people have to remember that the traffic is a way of traveling to the North, East, West and South. Then you have to figure out when the traffic is at its busiest.
"NEVER GET STUCK IN TRAFFIC AGAIN."
Here's how we can make traffic disappear.
ruclips.net/video/MyKUBN-hIRM/видео.html
GA Dot should grow a pair and use imminent domain to build that outter perimeter in it's entirety. I do not care what any of the residents think about it. Atlanta is a massive bottle neck for commerical traffic. Because we are all forced on the beltway. And there aren't any good ways around Atlanta. Your best bet if you are going sw or ne, use us 129 . It technically connects i20 , i85, and I75 .
We travel from Tennessee to Florida to see family a couple of times a year. It’s gotten so bad we go through Alabama to Columbus, GA. It takes you off interstates much of the way, but most of it is still four lane road. It adds all of an hour to driving time, but most of the route has about 10% of the traffic that you get from Chattanooga to Macon.
Good.
This is more the our red-stateness we have to shake off over the years.
Gwinnett and Cobb both don't need to worry about crime. *They already have it* and a lot in Gwinnett.
Didn't mention the mayors of north Fulton that shot down Marta expanding over the Chattahoochee River because of traffic concerns from Gwinnett and cobb counties.
Great video Mike. I for one would like to see Marta expansion. It’s a shame Cobb and Gwinnett county won’t allow Marta expansion into their counties. These two counties are two of the three most populous counties in Georgia.
Yeah the system is pretty crippled until they get on board.
I live outside of Gwinnett. I can tell you that the demographics of that county is RAPIDLY changing. There are a LOT of Korean and Korean Americans there and they are used to outstanding rail travel in Korea. MARTA will be extending to possibly Brasselton and Hamilton Mill soon enough...fingers crossed!
@@theeamazingkrabb5358 Marta doesn't have the money to do that and I doubt the state or the feds would pay for it. Marta has one major problem that can't be resolved easily -- even if they did extend their lines, there is no option for a express version that would skip stops. I have to make 20 stops when I ride Marta from North Springs to the Airport and that would be even worse if they extended the rail line up Ga 400 (which they could do in Fulton County).
@@theeamazingkrabb5358 Hopefully MARTA gets expanded. Because Atlanta Metropolitan Area traffic problems are beyond road and highway expansion helping.
@@bobbbobb4663 Wow! No express option and 20 stops?! That’s crazy.
I honestly think they should add another alternate interstate because we already have I-285 and that interstate that is supposed to be an alternative route to miss the absolute madhouse that is I-85 is jam-packed too. How has Atlanta not realized this yet also was that you talking in the video Georgia Mike if so cool voice reveal if it's you.
Mostly because I think the government in Atlanta want people sitting in traffic because it makes them buy gas in Atlanta which is more expensive and of course provides tax revenue......it comes down to money I believe
I live down in Florida and every once in awhile I'll come up to Atlanta for business and I hate it. I don't understand why people want to deal with this everyday it's beyond my understanding....
Lol, you love in Florida. It has the highest rate of car crash deaths in the entire country.
As a Louisiana resident who occasionally has to travel to the Upstate of SC, I like your analysis and remedy. I have no desire to go to Atlanta, but there's no other way for me to travel - not even a decent 4-lane US highway. An outer beltway would help, say from south of Newnan - Griffin - Covington - Brassleton , or even farther out from Columbus - Macon - Athens. Midwest people going to Florida similarly need a way to go around the west side.
Yeah Atlanta has a centralized strategic location in the South that forces you to go through it to get to most destinations. 285 north of the city is about to be even worse for a while as they're rebuilding the interchange with 400 right now.
@@MileageMikeTravels I commented with my idea, a new interstate from Chattanooga to i75 at the Florida turnpike.
A spur from Dalton to Commerce would take a lot of traffic out of the city, too.
With 75 through traffic, 85s to 75s, 20e to 75, 20w to 75s, and 75s to 85s traffic not going through the city, should make things much smoother for 85s to 75n, 85 through, and 20 through traffic.
That would be horrible. An “outer beltway” would just cause more suburban sprawl and cause destruction of forests and neighborhoods.
I'm really enjoying your videos. And that's a great question. The only way they can fixed it is more railways, more city transportations which most people won't be able to go where they need to go, and less gas usage. We know gas prices are high now and sadly, it won't dropped anytime soon but less gas usage can stop the polluting issues.
Thanks for your very on-point video. Marta is 50 years behind on expansion. I have ridden Marta for over 20 years and it could help more than anything.
I think you missed a huge contributor to the tragic problem. White flight in the 50s and 60s to the unprepared northern suburbs. While the rest of the country started urban planning in the 70s and 80s to address future needs, GA was stuck dealing with new suburbs popping up and needing to commute back and forth into the city for work. They were forced to build seven lane highways and had few other options. Had GA not experienced White Flight they likely would have performed urban planning and advance and address traffic needs. My two cents.
I enjoyed this greatly Mileage Mike! I hear stories about Atlanta traffic all the time from people who drive from up where I live in Wisconsin down to Florida to escape the chills of winter. They always complain about bottlenecks in Nashville, Chattanooga and of course Atlanta. The problem in a lot of cities is that transportation hasn't been able to adapt to people's commuting habits which have changed over the past couple of decades. Most of the time, when planners plan mass transit systems, the only focus is on downtown. I'm not against that either, I think a healthy downtown benefits the entire metropolitan area but at the same time just focusing on one part of a metro doesn't really address the overall congestion issue either. While many things go on in the middle of Atlanta and other large cities, a lot of people commute suburb to suburb and don't even bother with with the center of the city. I'm not sure if developing the suburbs around the ring roads was the most efficient way we could have done things in America but it is what we did and now, our beltways no longer function as bypasses. I think Houston is the most extreme example of this but it happens all over the place. I have no idea if it is possible to know what percentage of trips end up in Atlanta and the perimeter versus just people driving through because that would be interesting.
Houston was fucked when I moved from there back to ATL in August '89. I lived in ATL from late '74 to November '79, back when Perimeter meant the mall and not an entire small city (Sandy Springs). Norcross and Smyrna were almost rural, and I knew the Langford (dysfunctional) family. I spent a lot of time at the Little Five Points Pub then; great place to avoid disco.
For me, Berlin, Germany is one of the most livable cities.
In a satellite view, you can see Carter Presidential Library sits right in the middle of a massive interchange clearing, with the north-south and east-west right-of-ways extending for a quarter mile beyond. It would be interesting to know how many residents and businesses were displaced to make way way for the mostly-unbuilt freeways here.
If everybody who wasn't born in Georgia left that would really alleviate the problem
Public transit, that's the solution, period, and that's not up for debate! And building more roads has never reduced or eased traffic, so that should never be an option for solving traffic because it never solves that issue. And Marta actually has a surplus of funds and has had a surplus for years now. I would also suggest that Marta annex some of the smaller transit networks and take over.
I would offer one proposal to help with congestion in Atlanta. Develop an I-27. It would be a north/south Freeway from Chattanooga to I-10 in Florida following the current US Hwy 27 along the Georgia/Alabama border. When you are funneling traffic from the Midwest and Canada heading to Florida into the region mixed with excessive local traffic you have what we currently experience. Additionally it would provide another option for trucking traffic to avoid Atlanta. There is a State Freeway (The Fall like Expressway) that runs from Columbus, GA to Macon and then syncs with I-16 for a corridor to the busy seaport in Savannah as well as access to Jacksonville.
I-14 is supposed to come in from Alabama at Columbus then cut across the state through Macon into South Carolina North of Savannah
I67 is the best fit of available numbers. I've had the same idea. From near the 24/75 junction, follow 27, part of it could follow 85 and the current 185, to Tallahassee, then hop east a bit on 10 and follow 19 down the coast, then cut east to the i75/turnpike junction.
Add a spur to the 24/59 junction to help alleviate traffic in Chattanooga as well.
I27 runs from Abilene to Lubbock, Texas, and i think is slated to become part of the ports-to-prairie project, which will run into the mountains in Colorado.
Racism, the answer is racism. That's why traffic is so bad. The city displaced so many communities and forced people to suburbs forcing traffic. Doesn’t help that the people om the north side time and time again vote against MARTA expansion forcing people to live on the dedicated 50 stops MARTA services or having to drive.... Add a GDoT project that takes years to complete, perfect reciepe for continuous gridlock
As yes, Racism forces old people to drive in the middle/left lanes at 40 mph.
It's not racism, it's the fact that US cities are built around the car.
You underestimate how much truckers hate Atlanta