As someone who does not like the migration meta, I value dynamite a lot more than you do, for the simple reason that it removes the mortality penalty that nitro gives. As this wasn't mentioned, I wanted to mention it.
I'm too damned nice to lead a Victorian nation. I wait to research Nitro until I can research dynamite immediately after, because I don't want my poor innocent miner peasants to die. And don't swap over from hand tools until dynamite is unlocked.
Some really great points in this guide. I normally avoided Nitroglycerin due to mortality rates, and didnt pay much attention to saw mills, but combining this guide with your guide on early game indiatrialization really helps drive home the importance of these techs. An outstanding follow-up guide, keep up the great work!
I like Water Tube boiler a lot, S tier for me. Cause at the point I am done researching railways, I have a lot of mines, so that tech touches a huge part of my economy. It also helps out a lot when you don't have enough iron mines. And it also makes the demand for Tools and Coal much easier to manage.
Agree with this, in the context of where the economy seems to usually be at the point where you have finished railways plus having the research boost JE I always get water tube boiler ASAP, not only for the increase in output of coal and iron but to allow labour saving PMs to be used in your heavily built up coal+iron mining areas which might be running low on pops (especially since they're also your best states in which to build steel, engines, tooling workshops and construction)
I find that going Fertilizer-->Dynamite-->Steel Frame is pretty good, Fertilizer tech establishes demand and better PM for Fertilizer which makes Dynamite easier to introduce, which in turn is needed for Steel Frame construction. I would then research Open Hearth process whilst transitioning into Steel Frame. Also, you forgot to mention that Nitroglycerin causes high mortality, prohibitive for nations with pop issues.
I think I often go that trajectory, but you can also import steel. For almost every country its best to go for the gold in S. Africa, and I think the countries w/ pop problems disproportionately benefit a lot more from gold so I'm not sure that I think it's worse on small nations
There are two journal events that give you progress towards researching steel railway cars, so you can potentially get it for 1/4 the price (from what I recall).
Thanks for the video. Would love to see a guide to electricity including electricity pms and tech. I try to lean into the new pms, but usually end up with a lot of shortages and underemployed electricity generators.
Electricity is so hard to evaluate because each building, feeding into only local, is likely to over/underproduce. It's difficult to hit an ideal ratio. Playability wise the swap is also awful.
@@generalistgaming On one end it gives you electric saw, and on the other IA seems to enjoy a lot piling hundreds of power plant on a single state for nothing as soon a electricity become even a bit profitable
Dynamite and Open-Heart should be high A low S imo. Not because they are inherently strong but after you research them transitioning to steel frame buildings is extremely smooth. If your explosive prices stabilized after getting the tech if you go steel frame and upgrade steel PMs to open hearth only shortage you'll have is glass which can be compensated by reducing your porcelain production from bone china to the other one.
I think w/ the steel timing in mind I would move open hearth to high C, or maybe low B, now that I think about it, but you can avoid shortages by swapping slow and prebuilding steel. I think you go steel frame buildings tech before you go open hearth, and I find myself letting open hearth nat spread a lot (but less so for dynamite). Usually I prefer going for a company to going for open hearth, and that's often a choice. Also T3 is kind of the start of tolerating ahead of time play, and I think I go ahead of time for steel frame sometimes, which would mean that a pairing w/ open hearth can have to compete w/ the likes of Quinine, in addition to Investment Banks and (if you have rubber) Rubber Mastication into Vulcanization
I mean do you think these should be higher than Mechanical Tools, Rubber Mastication, and Water-tube Boiler? Or is it more that there should be a distribution that is generally higher?
@@generalistgaming For water tube boiler and MT no. For Rubber Mastication and quinine yes. Quinine is France & UK exclusive tech IMO due to how hard it is to compete for those lands as a non-major power. Same logic applies to Rubber Mastication. But dynamite & OH are universally good on every country hence my reasoning behind my argument.
pretty sure they are almost automaticall profitable unless they are paying a huge premium for inputs, especially with transportation if they are being outcompete by other industries.
Thanks for the video GM. To be honest I`m still confused about researching Atmospheric Engine 80% of the way. How exactly does it make overall research more efficient? If cotton gin and Lathe are still not researched, doesn`t it make Atmospheric Engine more expensive to research, so aren`t you better off actively researching them first? Is there something I`m failing to see about how tech works in general?
The penalty for researching affects only total amount of research points to unlock a tech, NOT research speed. So we research it at same speed basically, but pre-plan it's unlocking for as soon as lathe spreads. As Generalist says, manipulating the spread, as you kinda direct it to atmospheric engine instead of random tech (if you manually choose lathe)
The exact way that the ahead of time penalty works is it increases the cost of the tech by 25% for each tech in the previous tier you haven't discovered yet, so if you put 10k research into Atmospheric Engine, then finish Lathe, you will unlock both Atmospheric Engine and Lathe on the same game tick. Since you have a high chance of getting a "bad" tier 2 tech spread this makes sure that you maximise tech spread to techs you actually want to unlock ASAP
Open hearth should be considered along with steel framed buildings. If you are out of peasants and you don't need to expand construction then you don't need to rush steel framed + open hearth. For high pop countries though it should be higher in the list.
I think w/ the timing point in mind of steel frame that high C would maybe make more sense - I think now that I might've even had this consideration built into the previous tier list now that you mention it.
Also depends on country. I like to play USA a lot, and Open Hearth opens up Carnegie steel which, combined with Standard Oil, makes your railway building go brr. As USA, I find I hit an inflection point around Open Hearth, Pumpjacks, and Steel Railways ( so I usually bee-line these techs before having my military/society catch up)
Maybe. But if the price doesn't drop too much, and fertilizer doesn't become too expensive, grain farms might actually become more productive instead. However it should also mean that each new grain farm built has a bigger impact on making grain less productive so long term you should probably end up with less grain farms built.
Eh, the buildings generally have improved profitability at the depressed price because the PM is better. It's better if you have sulfur/rice, but it's not going to have the effect of causing you to build less in the autoque I don't think, unless you built more than what yous tarted w/, which I don't think you should.
I try to dump the prices of agri products once I research commercialized agriculture. With that, I think going full on with the higher level PMs becomes a net positive since it depresses agri products, which means subsistence farms are less profitable. Sure, my landowners and rural folk would get an uptick in power relative to my industrialists and trade unions, but I like to make up the difference with heavy railroad expansion around this time.
why is researching atmospheric engine 80% then switching better? arent you paying a tech penalty on that 80% then? is it not better to just do cotton jhin lathe then atmospheric, its ultimately the same amount of research, I get that the spread can go onto a research you don't want or need after lathe but don't you waste research by going atmo after cotton?
the base price for atmospheric engine is 10k, you can research only 10k and then switch so that when the earlier techs get researched the final price for atmo will be 10k, then you just research it for a week so that the game triggers the unlock
As someone who does not like the migration meta, I value dynamite a lot more than you do, for the simple reason that it removes the mortality penalty that nitro gives. As this wasn't mentioned, I wanted to mention it.
I also dont use nitroglycerin and just bline for boombooms.
I'm too damned nice to lead a Victorian nation. I wait to research Nitro until I can research dynamite immediately after, because I don't want my poor innocent miner peasants to die. And don't swap over from hand tools until dynamite is unlocked.
Nah. I go baron robbers and I say that's "Capitalism"
@@JB-xl2jc that's how kings are supposed to rule.
Some really great points in this guide. I normally avoided Nitroglycerin due to mortality rates, and didnt pay much attention to saw mills, but combining this guide with your guide on early game indiatrialization really helps drive home the importance of these techs.
An outstanding follow-up guide, keep up the great work!
The loop of the explosive industries is really strong in that they are buying from mines, which you want to build more of, and feeding into mines.
I like Water Tube boiler a lot, S tier for me.
Cause at the point I am done researching railways, I have a lot of mines, so that tech touches a huge part of my economy.
It also helps out a lot when you don't have enough iron mines.
And it also makes the demand for Tools and Coal much easier to manage.
Agree with this, in the context of where the economy seems to usually be at the point where you have finished railways plus having the research boost JE I always get water tube boiler ASAP, not only for the increase in output of coal and iron but to allow labour saving PMs to be used in your heavily built up coal+iron mining areas which might be running low on pops (especially since they're also your best states in which to build steel, engines, tooling workshops and construction)
I find that going Fertilizer-->Dynamite-->Steel Frame is pretty good, Fertilizer tech establishes demand and better PM for Fertilizer which makes Dynamite easier to introduce, which in turn is needed for Steel Frame construction. I would then research Open Hearth process whilst transitioning into Steel Frame.
Also, you forgot to mention that Nitroglycerin causes high mortality, prohibitive for nations with pop issues.
I think I often go that trajectory, but you can also import steel. For almost every country its best to go for the gold in S. Africa, and I think the countries w/ pop problems disproportionately benefit a lot more from gold so I'm not sure that I think it's worse on small nations
There are two journal events that give you progress towards researching steel railway cars, so you can potentially get it for 1/4 the price (from what I recall).
Thanks for the video. Would love to see a guide to electricity including electricity pms and tech. I try to lean into the new pms, but usually end up with a lot of shortages and underemployed electricity generators.
Electricity is so hard to evaluate because each building, feeding into only local, is likely to over/underproduce. It's difficult to hit an ideal ratio. Playability wise the swap is also awful.
@@generalistgaming
On one end it gives you electric saw, and on the other IA seems to enjoy a lot piling hundreds of power plant on a single state for nothing as soon a electricity become even a bit profitable
Journal entries determine my early tech route. Need that atmospheric engine output bonus
Dynamite and Open-Heart should be high A low S imo. Not because they are inherently strong but after you research them transitioning to steel frame buildings is extremely smooth. If your explosive prices stabilized after getting the tech if you go steel frame and upgrade steel PMs to open hearth only shortage you'll have is glass which can be compensated by reducing your porcelain production from bone china to the other one.
I think w/ the steel timing in mind I would move open hearth to high C, or maybe low B, now that I think about it, but you can avoid shortages by swapping slow and prebuilding steel. I think you go steel frame buildings tech before you go open hearth, and I find myself letting open hearth nat spread a lot (but less so for dynamite). Usually I prefer going for a company to going for open hearth, and that's often a choice. Also T3 is kind of the start of tolerating ahead of time play, and I think I go ahead of time for steel frame sometimes, which would mean that a pairing w/ open hearth can have to compete w/ the likes of Quinine, in addition to Investment Banks and (if you have rubber) Rubber Mastication into Vulcanization
I mean do you think these should be higher than Mechanical Tools, Rubber Mastication, and Water-tube Boiler? Or is it more that there should be a distribution that is generally higher?
@@generalistgaming For water tube boiler and MT no. For Rubber Mastication and quinine yes.
Quinine is France & UK exclusive tech IMO due to how hard it is to compete for those lands as a non-major power. Same logic applies to Rubber Mastication.
But dynamite & OH are universally good on every country hence my reasoning behind my argument.
Can you do a video on how to make urban centers profitable, specifically once electricity is researched.
pretty sure they are almost automaticall profitable unless they are paying a huge premium for inputs, especially with transportation if they are being outcompete by other industries.
Thanks for the video GM. To be honest I`m still confused about researching Atmospheric Engine 80% of the way. How exactly does it make overall research more efficient? If cotton gin and Lathe are still not researched, doesn`t it make Atmospheric Engine more expensive to research, so aren`t you better off actively researching them first? Is there something I`m failing to see about how tech works in general?
The penalty for researching affects only total amount of research points to unlock a tech, NOT research speed. So we research it at same speed basically, but pre-plan it's unlocking for as soon as lathe spreads. As Generalist says, manipulating the spread, as you kinda direct it to atmospheric engine instead of random tech (if you manually choose lathe)
The exact way that the ahead of time penalty works is it increases the cost of the tech by 25% for each tech in the previous tier you haven't discovered yet, so if you put 10k research into Atmospheric Engine, then finish Lathe, you will unlock both Atmospheric Engine and Lathe on the same game tick. Since you have a high chance of getting a "bad" tier 2 tech spread this makes sure that you maximise tech spread to techs you actually want to unlock ASAP
I really appreciate these videos.
Glad you like them!
Open hearth should be considered along with steel framed buildings. If you are out of peasants and you don't need to expand construction then you don't need to rush steel framed + open hearth. For high pop countries though it should be higher in the list.
I think w/ the timing point in mind of steel frame that high C would maybe make more sense - I think now that I might've even had this consideration built into the previous tier list now that you mention it.
Also depends on country. I like to play USA a lot, and Open Hearth opens up Carnegie steel which, combined with Standard Oil, makes your railway building go brr. As USA, I find I hit an inflection point around Open Hearth, Pumpjacks, and Steel Railways ( so I usually bee-line these techs before having my military/society catch up)
Ah now I get it, good stuff as usual 👍
Thanks 👍
Intensive agriculture does dump the gain price which makes the auto queue build better stuff. Would that make it better?
Maybe. But if the price doesn't drop too much, and fertilizer doesn't become too expensive, grain farms might actually become more productive instead.
However it should also mean that each new grain farm built has a bigger impact on making grain less productive so long term you should probably end up with less grain farms built.
Eh, the buildings generally have improved profitability at the depressed price because the PM is better. It's better if you have sulfur/rice, but it's not going to have the effect of causing you to build less in the autoque I don't think, unless you built more than what yous tarted w/, which I don't think you should.
I try to dump the prices of agri products once I research commercialized agriculture. With that, I think going full on with the higher level PMs becomes a net positive since it depresses agri products, which means subsistence farms are less profitable. Sure, my landowners and rural folk would get an uptick in power relative to my industrialists and trade unions, but I like to make up the difference with heavy railroad expansion around this time.
laithe mentioned
Laith mentioned
why is researching atmospheric engine 80% then switching better? arent you paying a tech penalty on that 80% then? is it not better to just do cotton jhin lathe then atmospheric, its ultimately the same amount of research, I get that the spread can go onto a research you don't want or need after lathe but don't you waste research by going atmo after cotton?
the base price for atmospheric engine is 10k, you can research only 10k and then switch so that when the earlier techs get researched the final price for atmo will be 10k, then you just research it for a week so that the game triggers the unlock
enclosure s tier?
lul
1st
what year is it?
Doe
Dough