cant believe i didnt realize lux clothing, lux furniture, and porcelain were competing for consumption, gonna start taxing lux clothes and furniture in my games to keep porcelain flying off the shelves
It's important to note that a consumption tax, or lack of, doesn't affect consumption. Pops don't consume based on price, they consume based on buy/sell orders.
Wait what ? How I never caught that. That exlains so many failed attempts at introducing new goods into my markets. Remember failing so hard at replacing grain by cans (whatever it's called). I couldn't understand why eventhough i made them cheaper /unit they still wouldn't sell @@generalistgaming
@@generalistgamingdid not understand, if it will be more expensive, it will cost mkre money, so they can buy less in same thing, so this drives down consumption, isnt it?
You skipped fertilizer. You tried to drag electricity to be behind groceries and accidentally grabbed fertilizer from the bottom then didn't notice when you moved the electricity there.
wait, so small arms can be consumed for "leisure", but ammo isn't? Do we want to ask what exactly they are doing with those guns, that they don't need the ammo?
Great content, your tutorials are trully in-depth and helpful! Would you consider summarize these into docs which we can check when needed. It can also relieve us from taking notes watching your videos
That was a very in depth video, thank you very much for your hard work. I found the link to the spreadsheet on your discord, I'd advise posting it in the description if you want it accessible (but the goal was maybe to get people to join Discord, and in this case I won't post it myself !).
Love the guides, thanks so much! Would you consider making an "auto-expand" guide? For example, mention the fish / sulfur-paper-explosives/fine arts/ etc that you mentioned here, as well as when things should and shouldn't be automated, and how the AI chooses what to expand?
So many aspects I hadn't considered. From what you're saying, electricity sounds like a loss leader that needs to be subsidized or government owned for the sake of other industries...kinda like a public utility. 😁 Like railroads, they suck by themselves, but support everything else in a state.
A little like that, yeah. The problem is that you'd rather they employ up to an equilibrium esp early on because you don't want a FULL level, just partial employment or w/e, and don't necessarily want to eat the subsidy on such a meh building. It's not as critically important as RRs are
Something that had been laying dormant in me suddenly woke up the moment i saw the spreadsheet This instinctual drive to get away from Microsoft Excel Love ur vids btw helped me understand the game better
Love your videos, you got me into playing vic 3 again after leaving it behind after being disapointed at launch. Would you consider making a video about the mod 'Basileía Romaíon' Update 92 'Epithetikós' 1.6x ?
Poorly, based on buy and sell orders, not prices. So if you introduce fish, tanking the price, pops will still eat grain more than fish even if the fish is cheaper if there is a lot more grain in the market. I don't know the detailed specifics of how it's calculated though
do you think the game should balance the goods such that if you were to do another tier list, they would all thereotically be the same tier? Or at the very least, balancing should have it so that advanced PMs (which don't change inputs) should always be more efficient than the prior? Does this kind of balancing even make the game more fun? I thought it was always cool how starved the world is starved of oil and rubber, such that it drives conquest. I wish there was more opportunity to have more regional and valueable goods which drive ambitious play patterns.
No, I don't think a complete balance would be a good simulation. It would also remove a lot of the strategy in the game since what you build is your major decision point
What happens if you force export everything? Do you end up being capital rich or do you lose value for selling at a loss? Seems like mercantilism is good if you have enough administrative points and trade ships becuase of the high import tarrifs, but maybe you'd opt for free trade and trade agreements instead to stop them from using tarrifs.
Doing every profitable export is decent, I think operating at a loss is probably not worth, since trade buildings are usually capitalist owned, it costs admin, and it doesn't increase volume much. I haven't done the dark maths tho
Wouldn't the split wood production be better in many cases because you save a lot of mapi? Especially with the private queue. (Except in focused production states)
I think you use hardwood prod where you have arms/furniture and softwood in rural areas that are unincorporated. I think the split wood one is bad though because it has negative efficiency. The split generates 400 cost w/ of hardwood but has -100 overall efficiency vs 800 cost of hardwood w/ even efficiency. Better to build around the hardwood focus I think than to wood PM around your manufacturies.
@@generalistgaming Hi, not trying to spam you, but I went thru all the input/outputs for myself and thought you might want my list of errors I found after noticing groceries was off a bit. I'm going off the wiki here but checked most of it in game as well, but I might be copying a wikia error in one or two of these. Resources tab: iron/lead mines, diesel pump, 70->90 iron. sulfur mines, diesel pump, 80->90. industry tab: fertilizer- uses iron, not steel. explosives- doesn't use iron or coal, uses fertilizer 20/30/40/50, uses paper 0/10/20/30 (you don't have a column for paper in this tab), outputs 110/150 not 115/155. consumer tab: groceries, baking powder, vacuum canning uses 30 fish 20 meat, not 60 fish electronics -> electrics (:P) railways is all off. uses the same number of engines at all levels, uses 10 elec not 6, uses 5 coal not 6, and you completely missed the wood/steel cost of the railcars. checked construction, no errors. didn't check agr or any of the other tabs. I also noticed your input/output functions were a bit jank and fixed them, let me know if you want me to copy paste them to you. for example resources tab input is =AK4*$AK$2+AL4*$AL$2+AM4*$AM$2+AN4*$AN$2+AO4*$AO$2+AP4*$AP$2+AQ4*$AQ$2+AR4*$AR$2+AS4*$AS$2+AT4*$AT$2. if you want your parentheses back it's a simply find + and replace )+(
I've watched all of your post 1.5 tutorial videos, and I feel like I still need to watch an actual playthrough to see how they actually apply in the game. Could you maybe do an overexplained run? Just a small suggestion, no pressure. Also, what's your opinion on the autonomous investment pool game setting? Should I leave it on, as that seems to be the intended design of the game, or should I turn it off while I learn the game?
One of my Japan starting steps is an hour and a half of uncut hyper explaining everything, but it was before 1.5 and MAPI. I feel like for a lot of my regulars (who are the one's who watch my gameplay) that an uncut hyper explanation wouldn't do to well, I'll keep it mind though
@@generalistgaming Yeah, especially now that 1.7 is on the way. It'll make whatever you do now obsolete too soon. That Japan run was plenty helpful, thanks for the suggestion.
Hollup, using pop saving PMs don't increase the workforce of railroads, they decrease it. If I build a 5k pop railway to provide transport that saves us 1500 pops from another business, the net is 3500, not 6500.
I'm talking about the PM itself, not the downstream effect, but if you look at it from a purely po saving perspective you have to include the entire PM and also consider that you can actually consume double the transport before a shortage. I'm not trying to say the PM isn't worth using - I use the steel railway PM and the spreadsheet suggests that I think you have to use them, but they do take additional workers. So on Ele/Steel trains you get 50 transport. It takes 5500 workers. Turning on 20 RR Pms saves 10,000 workers. The net is 4500 workers saved per level, but that's not considering pop consumption at all. W. Pop consumption, only particularly rural areas will get a good ratio like that, but they'll also generally have depressed transport prices, which will make the local PMs inefficient. Looking at my Iberia run, Navarra, which has a lot of opportunity to turn on RR pms, has 2/3 of its consumption of transport coming from pops, w/ a +41% price. I mean I suppose you could look at it marginally (cargo prio vs carriages) but it's only saving you labor then if you're at +75% price, which a lot of times you're not. In the Navarra example I'd save more labor turning off the PM because I'm not hitting a transport shortage. But the PM is much more efficient because it's increasing the output of sellable goods by 60%, so it's worth using even though it's not saving labor.
Do you realistically still have problems with lack of workers these days? Seems like I immigrate more than I can build for most of the time, without even using many of the "less workers" PMs. I almost exclusively play smallish nations, like Romania, Finland etc, seem like I always end up with 15-20 million people in the capital state halfway into the game
I wait a ramadan special ottoman or egypt (any other muslim country is ok) campaign after korea. Continue with your great work bro I still learn and play vic3 thanks to you if I did not know you probably would get bored from vic3 because I would not know how to play properly. ❤
I usually build cars in one place and change the transportati8n to busses but I don't know if it's good. My economy shoots up when I do it and I get slightly better soldiers when at war. I'm going to test not building cars in the future
I think you ought to play around with the automobile PM. I had capitalists build a size 183 auto plant and the price was still +75% in a France game. Idk when to use it exactly, but my feeling is that there is a place for it
I've played around w/ it a little before. It hurts the railroad industries a lot notably, and increases motor prices which eats into everything that uses them as inputs, when maintaining the same equilibrium prices per worker/construction on the motor industries. I have to really deep dive it hard to know for sure though. On top of everything it costs oil.
Hey, actually, you talk about SOL a fair bit, but isn't it completely worthless? As in it should not be taken into consideration that because of exponential goods luxury goods being expensive won't have as big an impact on your sol as basic goods being more expensive, because the SOL number doesn't actually do anything when total price of things being consumed doesn't change, UNLESS you specifically when talking about SOL mean the fact that the lower sol pops consume goods that suck to make and as the number goes up they will start consuming goods that are more efficient to produce as it goes higher, which in turn stimulates your economy and therefore making your lower SOL pops hit these thresholds is a big priority, even if initially it might sort of seem like you're just redistributing wealth for no reason, in which case I just learned something
I can increase the price of lux clothes and decrease basic clothes price in a building and critically have the exact same profitability in the building, and this is preferable. This is because if a group of lower class pops have to spend $500 less on their particular basket of goods and upper class have to spend $500 more then this will raise the avg SoL in the country. The reason for this is that it takes progressively more to buy the next wealth level value of goods as SoL goes up, so you always prefer to take money from rich pops, since it negatively affects SoL less. To offer an example (I have no idea if the math is correct on this, just illustrating the point). If I increase basic clothes cost then maybe 10 pops having to pay that 50 extra (500 total) decrease their wealth level. If I conversely increase lux clothes cost then maybe 1 pop (500 total - since their need is exponential, they need a lot more lux clothes in their basket of goods) decreases in SoL. 10 pops decreasing in wealth will pull down the avg of your entire nation more than 1 pop decreasing their wealth level, since it looks at the wealth level itself and not the cost of the basket of goods.
@@generalistgaming I get all of this part, I don't get why average wealth level even MATTERS though, as you said, it's just that the higher pops pay 500 extra instead of it being paid by lower strata, sure that causes average wealth level to go down but that doesn't have any real impact on your economy, total goods consumed do not changw at all. UNLESS you mean the lower strata SOL being important to get them to consume better goods
Good sir, how humorous of you to boldly assume that our dear children are at risk of discovering spreadsheets. The only time they may come in contact with it is they are full of merit and promoted from miner to overseer. No kid shall be kept from their yearning to work in the mines.
@@generalistgaming thank you! For Japan as coal can only be obtained in the south island and in Hokkaido you need to take the hit, as the other resources are in the big island provinces.
I think you overvalued small arms. If it were a linear need I would agree completely, but the fact that it's an exponential need to me makes it a lot worse. I think the point about aggressively using import/export strategy to massage the value of military goods higher so that you can afford to have enough of those industries in your country to self sustain during war is brilliant. But I think you also need to consider autos/radios/groceries/liquor/opium to be military goods for that purpose, which bumps up the value of groceries/liquor considerably, which in turn further increases your desire to import meat/sugar/grain as close to -75% as you can get.
I'm valuing small arms not because having a low price is good for SoL, but because it has the most efficient manufacturing PM in the game. If you can export it, or increase price in any way, then you'll have opportunities to build more of the building than you'd otherwise have. I think the groceries and liquor already get a lot of smoothing from pop consumption (which most mil goods don't) but I should probably take a closer look at the ratios since 1.5 can make the consumption HUGE in later phases of the game.
@generalistgaming my favorite thing about the food industry is that most of its inputs are things you hate producing yourself, so you want to import then to -75% anyways, and importing them from as many people as possible makes them build more of them which hurts their economies and lets you steal their market share of more profitable industries. May not be super optimal industrially, but it's nice for SOI and harming opposing economies. Building on the input good point, and you know a lot more than I do so don't take this the wrong way, but I feel like you overemphasize the importance of base price. If your import/export strategy aggressively tries to change the price of bad goods below say -25%, then the efficiency calculations per week of construction or hundrd workers will go up by reducing the minus input goods part of the numerator. Cut the input goods part of the food industries column by half and the efficiency per hundred workers still isn't great but it isn't shit either. Just a thought I wanted to share with you. Great video as always, thanks for everything!
I will give you some pushback on the auto industry sucking (and electronics industries as well). The math sucks on them but there a new good in your market. Your people want to spend their money on cars, so let them have cars! If your building auto industries you've already got an advanced economy and are trying to drive up prices and GDP. You can induce more demand in the economy with auto industries.
In addition, the demand when giving your pops access to any cars at all jumps WAY up at first, and the same with telephones. And this happens with pretty much any country, so if you are the first to start producing them you can then immediately start exporting them to foreign markets and keep the price of them VERY high for a long while. Being the only real source for automobiles and telephones also makes dependent nations have a pretty bad time if they decide to go to war with you. I do feel like they need a company active to really make this fully worthwhile, though.
So there's a new good, but not a new need - they just eat cars instead of transportation, and I think having expensive transportation is generally good anyway (because it decreases your subsidy), although it's annoying if you can't turn on labor saving PMs you want but that's generally a more state by state concern. If you don't produce any cars there won't be any buy orders for them as of 1.6
I wish it were this way but it isn't to my understanding, to put it simply let's say your pops had 200 bucks, they spent 100 on meat and electricity, 50 on railways, and 50 on luxury chairs and clothes. Welp, that doesn't change, there's no new demand being generated, they just change from 50 on railies to like 40 on railies and maybe 10 on cars, which are made less efficiently than raillies. it's just plain bad
Playing around with the market more, I think Generalist and Lucas here are correct, the math is just simply not on the side of automobiles. I will say the extra infrastructure was shockingly large once Paved Roads came online, but even that benefit was blunted when swapping over to more socialist economies. If you are running a very top heavy economy where the capitalists are highly wealthy and can afford to buy a TON of automobiles it seems feasible to rely mostly on them to "provide infrastructure" for your states instead of expanding railroads. However, since distributing SOL more equitably is generally better for your economy, and lower SOL consumes proportionally less on transportation, a more equitable economy supports a smaller demand for automobiles. This makes the perk of "free infra" more difficult to actively use. I do still think they're useful to make in a few states, but I am willing to admit they seem better in concept than they are in reality.
“You would rather consume the liquor and the opium for several reasons.” -GeneralistGaming
March 24, 2024
This is the way
@@generalistgaming *takes notes*
cant believe i didnt realize lux clothing, lux furniture, and porcelain were competing for consumption, gonna start taxing lux clothes and furniture in my games to keep porcelain flying off the shelves
It's important to note that a consumption tax, or lack of, doesn't affect consumption. Pops don't consume based on price, they consume based on buy/sell orders.
Wait what ? How I never caught that. That exlains so many failed attempts at introducing new goods into my markets.
Remember failing so hard at replacing grain by cans (whatever it's called). I couldn't understand why eventhough i made them cheaper /unit they still wouldn't sell @@generalistgaming
@@generalistgaming aw man, seemed like it did. that almost seems like an oversight, it would be interesting to control consumption like that
@@generalistgamingdid not understand, if it will be more expensive, it will cost mkre money, so they can buy less in same thing, so this drives down consumption, isnt it?
It would introduce iterative calculations if they consumed based on price - that's why it's not modeled that way in game@@Beansmith95
I always love your comments about random loud cars driving down and how you take it in stride and are just a good sport about it all lolol
I get a lot of practice lol
You've helped me learn the game so much. I love making the lines go up- thank you.
Happy to help!
A clear and concise spreadsheet is a truly magical thing
"If there is any obsession you want, it's small arms". America has now entered the chat.
You skipped fertilizer. You tried to drag electricity to be behind groceries and accidentally grabbed fertilizer from the bottom then didn't notice when you moved the electricity there.
Oof, you're right, they're probably a tier up from where they got placed
Can't wait to see this updated for 1.7 once the testing is done!
Subscribed just for the respect of dedication and amount of work for this video. That's amazing!
Welcome aboard!
wait, so small arms can be consumed for "leisure", but ammo isn't? Do we want to ask what exactly they are doing with those guns, that they don't need the ammo?
lol just pistol whip the targets lmao
Showing off
The real wuestion is what the military does with small arms and no ammp.
Well, the army with line infantry doesn't use ammo either, so they lose to Skirmish infantry because they only use the bayonets.
i assume small arms includes small arm ammo and munitions is more like ordinance
Great content, your tutorials are trully in-depth and helpful! Would you consider summarize these into docs which we can check when needed. It can also relieve us from taking notes watching your videos
Making a doc guide would take me a huge amount of time and there wouldn't be a way for me to monetize it so it wouldn't make too much sense.
@@generalistgaming Patreon it, would be worth it
That was a very in depth video, thank you very much for your hard work. I found the link to the spreadsheet on your discord, I'd advise posting it in the description if you want it accessible (but the goal was maybe to get people to join Discord, and in this case I won't post it myself !).
Love the guides, thanks so much! Would you consider making an "auto-expand" guide? For example, mention the fish / sulfur-paper-explosives/fine arts/ etc that you mentioned here, as well as when things should and shouldn't be automated, and how the AI chooses what to expand?
Maybe this is something I can do, but it also feels like a pretty short list.
So many aspects I hadn't considered.
From what you're saying, electricity sounds like a loss leader that needs to be subsidized or government owned for the sake of other industries...kinda like a public utility. 😁 Like railroads, they suck by themselves, but support everything else in a state.
A little like that, yeah. The problem is that you'd rather they employ up to an equilibrium esp early on because you don't want a FULL level, just partial employment or w/e, and don't necessarily want to eat the subsidy on such a meh building. It's not as critically important as RRs are
Great video.
Since I watch your videos, i have a much better understanding of game mechanics.
9:10
“Because if you’re going to be driving down the street with your loud car, you’ll definitely wanna be having some opium.”
Maybe there should be a necessities index, giving a good a possible score of beeing bad, but at the same time very important.
Yeah the problem is that I think 1 tier list is much better for the viewer than 6, which would be necessary for a really good separation of things
Something that had been laying dormant in me suddenly woke up the moment i saw the spreadsheet
This instinctual drive to get away from Microsoft Excel
Love ur vids btw helped me understand the game better
Love your videos, you got me into playing vic 3 again after leaving it behind after being disapointed at launch. Would you consider making a video about the mod 'Basileía Romaíon' Update 92 'Epithetikós' 1.6x ?
Maybe? I think I'm going to try to not put too much on my plate for 1.6 because I want to make a big push for spheres
Not sure i got how the substitution actually works today
Poorly, based on buy and sell orders, not prices. So if you introduce fish, tanking the price, pops will still eat grain more than fish even if the fish is cheaper if there is a lot more grain in the market. I don't know the detailed specifics of how it's calculated though
do you think the game should balance the goods such that if you were to do another tier list, they would all thereotically be the same tier? Or at the very least, balancing should have it so that advanced PMs (which don't change inputs) should always be more efficient than the prior?
Does this kind of balancing even make the game more fun? I thought it was always cool how starved the world is starved of oil and rubber, such that it drives conquest. I wish there was more opportunity to have more regional and valueable goods which drive ambitious play patterns.
No, I don't think a complete balance would be a good simulation. It would also remove a lot of the strategy in the game since what you build is your major decision point
Does the Victoria Improvement Mod help this any? Ridiculous that electricity/cars/transportation/meat are so bad
Not familiar w/ that mod
I need a video explaining the spreadsheet because its too hot to focus
We need to ban spreadsheets in schools, they're distracting students!
Hi Generalist , do you have a link for your spreadsheet? I would be interested in reading it over...
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NDUwUWHlNuQTWMejK0Agv8gC3fn6ujiXKE9WfVmjFBc/edit
What happens if you force export everything? Do you end up being capital rich or do you lose value for selling at a loss? Seems like mercantilism is good if you have enough administrative points and trade ships becuase of the high import tarrifs, but maybe you'd opt for free trade and trade agreements instead to stop them from using tarrifs.
Doing every profitable export is decent, I think operating at a loss is probably not worth, since trade buildings are usually capitalist owned, it costs admin, and it doesn't increase volume much. I haven't done the dark maths tho
Wouldn't the split wood production be better in many cases because you save a lot of mapi? Especially with the private queue. (Except in focused production states)
I think you use hardwood prod where you have arms/furniture and softwood in rural areas that are unincorporated. I think the split wood one is bad though because it has negative efficiency. The split generates 400 cost w/ of hardwood but has -100 overall efficiency vs 800 cost of hardwood w/ even efficiency. Better to build around the hardwood focus I think than to wood PM around your manufacturies.
Hey Generalist, another solid video. Do you have a link to the spreadsheet that you would be willing to share? Cheers
Its public and the link was somewhere on the V3 discord iirc
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NDUwUWHlNuQTWMejK0Agv8gC3fn6ujiXKE9WfVmjFBc/edit
@@generalistgaming Hi, not trying to spam you, but I went thru all the input/outputs for myself and thought you might want my list of errors I found after noticing groceries was off a bit. I'm going off the wiki here but checked most of it in game as well, but I might be copying a wikia error in one or two of these.
Resources tab:
iron/lead mines, diesel pump, 70->90 iron. sulfur mines, diesel pump, 80->90.
industry tab:
fertilizer- uses iron, not steel.
explosives- doesn't use iron or coal, uses fertilizer 20/30/40/50, uses paper 0/10/20/30 (you don't have a column for paper in this tab), outputs 110/150 not 115/155.
consumer tab:
groceries, baking powder, vacuum canning uses 30 fish 20 meat, not 60 fish
electronics -> electrics (:P)
railways is all off. uses the same number of engines at all levels, uses 10 elec not 6, uses 5 coal not 6, and you completely missed the wood/steel cost of the railcars.
checked construction, no errors. didn't check agr or any of the other tabs.
I also noticed your input/output functions were a bit jank and fixed them, let me know if you want me to copy paste them to you. for example resources tab input is =AK4*$AK$2+AL4*$AL$2+AM4*$AM$2+AN4*$AN$2+AO4*$AO$2+AP4*$AP$2+AQ4*$AQ$2+AR4*$AR$2+AS4*$AS$2+AT4*$AT$2. if you want your parentheses back it's a simply find + and replace )+(
I've watched all of your post 1.5 tutorial videos, and I feel like I still need to watch an actual playthrough to see how they actually apply in the game. Could you maybe do an overexplained run? Just a small suggestion, no pressure. Also, what's your opinion on the autonomous investment pool game setting? Should I leave it on, as that seems to be the intended design of the game, or should I turn it off while I learn the game?
One of my Japan starting steps is an hour and a half of uncut hyper explaining everything, but it was before 1.5 and MAPI. I feel like for a lot of my regulars (who are the one's who watch my gameplay) that an uncut hyper explanation wouldn't do to well, I'll keep it mind though
@@generalistgaming Yeah, especially now that 1.7 is on the way. It'll make whatever you do now obsolete too soon. That Japan run was plenty helpful, thanks for the suggestion.
It would be nice to have a link in description to the tier list
Hollup, using pop saving PMs don't increase the workforce of railroads, they decrease it. If I build a 5k pop railway to provide transport that saves us 1500 pops from another business, the net is 3500, not 6500.
I'm talking about the PM itself, not the downstream effect, but if you look at it from a purely po saving perspective you have to include the entire PM and also consider that you can actually consume double the transport before a shortage. I'm not trying to say the PM isn't worth using - I use the steel railway PM and the spreadsheet suggests that I think you have to use them, but they do take additional workers.
So on Ele/Steel trains you get 50 transport. It takes 5500 workers. Turning on 20 RR Pms saves 10,000 workers. The net is 4500 workers saved per level, but that's not considering pop consumption at all. W. Pop consumption, only particularly rural areas will get a good ratio like that, but they'll also generally have depressed transport prices, which will make the local PMs inefficient. Looking at my Iberia run, Navarra, which has a lot of opportunity to turn on RR pms, has 2/3 of its consumption of transport coming from pops, w/ a +41% price.
I mean I suppose you could look at it marginally (cargo prio vs carriages) but it's only saving you labor then if you're at +75% price, which a lot of times you're not. In the Navarra example I'd save more labor turning off the PM because I'm not hitting a transport shortage. But the PM is much more efficient because it's increasing the output of sellable goods by 60%, so it's worth using even though it's not saving labor.
Do you realistically still have problems with lack of workers these days? Seems like I immigrate more than I can build for most of the time, without even using many of the "less workers" PMs. I almost exclusively play smallish nations, like Romania, Finland etc, seem like I always end up with 15-20 million people in the capital state halfway into the game
I mean yes, but smaller problem in 1.6 than before. I was running out of labor in my USA run w/ 500m pops
Where do I get this spreadsheet?
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NDUwUWHlNuQTWMejK0Agv8gC3fn6ujiXKE9WfVmjFBc/edit#gid=0
I wait a ramadan special ottoman or egypt (any other muslim country is ok) campaign after korea. Continue with your great work bro I still learn and play vic3 thanks to you if I did not know you probably would get bored from vic3 because I would not know how to play properly. ❤
I usually build cars in one place and change the transportati8n to busses but I don't know if it's good. My economy shoots up when I do it and I get slightly better soldiers when at war. I'm going to test not building cars in the future
Yeah I suppose I need to test if you can build just a little cars and turn on some of the PMs now in 1.6 since they changed how minimum needs work
I think you ought to play around with the automobile PM. I had capitalists build a size 183 auto plant and the price was still +75% in a France game.
Idk when to use it exactly, but my feeling is that there is a place for it
I've played around w/ it a little before. It hurts the railroad industries a lot notably, and increases motor prices which eats into everything that uses them as inputs, when maintaining the same equilibrium prices per worker/construction on the motor industries. I have to really deep dive it hard to know for sure though. On top of everything it costs oil.
Is there any consideration for food industries to be better where you have access to rice because you can so easily depress the cost of the inputs?
Pops will unfortunately often under consume groceries and overconsume fruit, or that is my experience.
It is certainly better though, yeah.
Except for food, you want most of your industries producing a single good. Have just one/a few doing double production.
Hey, actually, you talk about SOL a fair bit, but isn't it completely worthless? As in it should not be taken into consideration that because of exponential goods luxury goods being expensive won't have as big an impact on your sol as basic goods being more expensive, because the SOL number doesn't actually do anything when total price of things being consumed doesn't change,
UNLESS you specifically when talking about SOL mean the fact that the lower sol pops consume goods that suck to make and as the number goes up they will start consuming goods that are more efficient to produce as it goes higher, which in turn stimulates your economy and therefore making your lower SOL pops hit these thresholds is a big priority, even if initially it might sort of seem like you're just redistributing wealth for no reason, in which case I just learned something
I know I worded this like shit, but you know what I mean?
I can increase the price of lux clothes and decrease basic clothes price in a building and critically have the exact same profitability in the building, and this is preferable. This is because if a group of lower class pops have to spend $500 less on their particular basket of goods and upper class have to spend $500 more then this will raise the avg SoL in the country.
The reason for this is that it takes progressively more to buy the next wealth level value of goods as SoL goes up, so you always prefer to take money from rich pops, since it negatively affects SoL less. To offer an example (I have no idea if the math is correct on this, just illustrating the point). If I increase basic clothes cost then maybe 10 pops having to pay that 50 extra (500 total) decrease their wealth level. If I conversely increase lux clothes cost then maybe 1 pop (500 total - since their need is exponential, they need a lot more lux clothes in their basket of goods) decreases in SoL. 10 pops decreasing in wealth will pull down the avg of your entire nation more than 1 pop decreasing their wealth level, since it looks at the wealth level itself and not the cost of the basket of goods.
@@generalistgaming I get all of this part, I don't get why average wealth level even MATTERS though, as you said, it's just that the higher pops pay 500 extra instead of it being paid by lower strata, sure that causes average wealth level to go down but that doesn't have any real impact on your economy, total goods consumed do not changw at all. UNLESS you mean the lower strata SOL being important to get them to consume better goods
Higher SoL on lower pops increases literacy, migration, and pop growth. @@lucasnadamas9317
@@generalistgaming Oh I hadn't even thought of that, fair enough I get it now
10:33 Your desktop wallpaper gives me anxiety :)
That's just a random background in Edge. Now, if you want to feel anxious about the fact he uses Bing and Edge...
I was boycotting Edge for some reason, but can't for the life of me remember. My wallpaper is a guy holding over 200lbs over his head w/ one arm.
I did not expect to see fish taht far up in the ranking..
They're def a small portion of your eco, but you should push them much more aggressively than the ai would, yeah
could someone smarter than me explain why tobacco would be such a bad good? Didn`t really understand the explanation given
The tobacco PM is much worse than Opium and (kind of) liquor. You'd rather your pops consume those
What is PM?
Production method
I am a jaded man, but I will admit, I enjoy myself some spreadsheet humor.
*man of culture
Good sir, how humorous of you to boldly assume that our dear children are at risk of discovering spreadsheets. The only time they may come in contact with it is they are full of merit and promoted from miner to overseer. No kid shall be kept from their yearning to work in the mines.
Ah, a parent of culture I see
9:13 after you're done with them
What "mappy" means
MAPI = Market Access Price Impact and kinda generally refers to local price considerations
@@generalistgaming thank you! For Japan as coal can only be obtained in the south island and in Hokkaido you need to take the hit, as the other resources are in the big island provinces.
Merci beaucoup
So you get the best service from people standing under a street lamp. Got it.
Cheap too!
I think you overvalued small arms. If it were a linear need I would agree completely, but the fact that it's an exponential need to me makes it a lot worse.
I think the point about aggressively using import/export strategy to massage the value of military goods higher so that you can afford to have enough of those industries in your country to self sustain during war is brilliant. But I think you also need to consider autos/radios/groceries/liquor/opium to be military goods for that purpose, which bumps up the value of groceries/liquor considerably, which in turn further increases your desire to import meat/sugar/grain as close to -75% as you can get.
I'm valuing small arms not because having a low price is good for SoL, but because it has the most efficient manufacturing PM in the game. If you can export it, or increase price in any way, then you'll have opportunities to build more of the building than you'd otherwise have.
I think the groceries and liquor already get a lot of smoothing from pop consumption (which most mil goods don't) but I should probably take a closer look at the ratios since 1.5 can make the consumption HUGE in later phases of the game.
@generalistgaming my favorite thing about the food industry is that most of its inputs are things you hate producing yourself, so you want to import then to -75% anyways, and importing them from as many people as possible makes them build more of them which hurts their economies and lets you steal their market share of more profitable industries. May not be super optimal industrially, but it's nice for SOI and harming opposing economies.
Building on the input good point, and you know a lot more than I do so don't take this the wrong way, but I feel like you overemphasize the importance of base price. If your import/export strategy aggressively tries to change the price of bad goods below say -25%, then the efficiency calculations per week of construction or hundrd workers will go up by reducing the minus input goods part of the numerator. Cut the input goods part of the food industries column by half and the efficiency per hundred workers still isn't great but it isn't shit either.
Just a thought I wanted to share with you. Great video as always, thanks for everything!
I will give you some pushback on the auto industry sucking (and electronics industries as well). The math sucks on them but there a new good in your market. Your people want to spend their money on cars, so let them have cars! If your building auto industries you've already got an advanced economy and are trying to drive up prices and GDP. You can induce more demand in the economy with auto industries.
In addition, the demand when giving your pops access to any cars at all jumps WAY up at first, and the same with telephones. And this happens with pretty much any country, so if you are the first to start producing them you can then immediately start exporting them to foreign markets and keep the price of them VERY high for a long while. Being the only real source for automobiles and telephones also makes dependent nations have a pretty bad time if they decide to go to war with you.
I do feel like they need a company active to really make this fully worthwhile, though.
So there's a new good, but not a new need - they just eat cars instead of transportation, and I think having expensive transportation is generally good anyway (because it decreases your subsidy), although it's annoying if you can't turn on labor saving PMs you want but that's generally a more state by state concern. If you don't produce any cars there won't be any buy orders for them as of 1.6
@joe it's important to note that the PM is inefficient so the goods NEED to be expensive to be on par w/ other industries.
I wish it were this way but it isn't to my understanding, to put it simply let's say your pops had 200 bucks, they spent 100 on meat and electricity, 50 on railways, and 50 on luxury chairs and clothes. Welp, that doesn't change, there's no new demand being generated, they just change from 50 on railies to like 40 on railies and maybe 10 on cars, which are made less efficiently than raillies. it's just plain bad
Playing around with the market more, I think Generalist and Lucas here are correct, the math is just simply not on the side of automobiles.
I will say the extra infrastructure was shockingly large once Paved Roads came online, but even that benefit was blunted when swapping over to more socialist economies. If you are running a very top heavy economy where the capitalists are highly wealthy and can afford to buy a TON of automobiles it seems feasible to rely mostly on them to "provide infrastructure" for your states instead of expanding railroads.
However, since distributing SOL more equitably is generally better for your economy, and lower SOL consumes proportionally less on transportation, a more equitable economy supports a smaller demand for automobiles. This makes the perk of "free infra" more difficult to actively use.
I do still think they're useful to make in a few states, but I am willing to admit they seem better in concept than they are in reality.
what so dangerous about spreassheet that you have to warn kid not to watch? I don't get it
It's a joke because a spreadsheet is actually innocuous and a kid wouldn't be interested in it anyway
"Fine art is not a good you wsnt to build a lot of"
Me, playing with Morgenröte "but but... I HAVE TO" ;D
Quality mod
@generalistgaming and yours is a quality channel :)