You're providing an extremely valuable service to the 3D printing community. Your tests give a really good insight as to what to expect from materials and does save lots of trial and error when selecting the filament for any particular project.
Thank you for your hard work. As an engineer myself, I truly appreciate the effort. After watching Jonathan Levi's recent video (The First Layer), I've started to donate to some specific open source projects where I actually use their product. And I just signed up for your Patreon so I can get the juicy, delicious data! PC - I've spent decades specifying PC into products ranging from small appliances, to power tools, to retail security products. It's used in motorcycle helmets, auto headlamps, etc and so much more because it's NOT brittle. That's what enables it to absorb impact so well. It's actually somewhat soft (easy-to-scratch) when injection molded compared to some other options. For it to be so brittle in FDM, I can only think of two possible causes. 1) there are induced stresses during the 3D printing process or 2) in order to make it flow and be printable, the filament makers have added "something" to it, like adding glycol to PET to make it PETG so it flows better. I would be very interested in testing to see whether or not annealing can improve 3D printed PC properties. And, perhaps with your contacts with Polymaker, eSun and other manufacturers, if they would be willing to advise on whether any additives are put into the PC we get as filament. We don't need to understand their trade secrets, but at least we'd know whether or not it's virgin PC, to explain the test performance. Thank you so much
I especially appreciate the kind word from the enginner colleague. Companies keep their secret. they don't want to share that info with me. I even visited Filaticum company, I tried to find out, how can they make PLA filaments with 150C temperature resistance. I have many interesting filaments here for the testing, but it needs time.
I came here to mention how I was surprised at how the PC was less impact resistant than expected. I suspect it is a few factors: 1) How pure is the PC? Certainly those that print at "low" temps (
PETG isn't PET with added glycol. Quite the opposite: PET is made by polymerising PolyEthylene glycol with Terephthalic acid to form PolyEthylene Terephthalate. PETG is made by modifying the process to *replace* a proportion of the polyethylene glycol and substitute a different monomer, altering properties such as crystallinity. PETG is polyethylene terephthalate glycol-_modified_.
Hey Igor, would you mind to do your tests with smoothed abs (via acetone fumes) compared to not smoothed abs/asa. This is something i would find really interresting. Regards Steffen. 😊
I wanted to commend you on your excellent introduction to FDM printer filaments characteristics. The video is very informative and provides a comprehensive overview that is easy to understand. However, I noticed that in your calculations, you only use the average for each material to compare their performance. It’s important to consider not just the average but also the standard deviation and the confidence interval. The end result isn't just a single value, the average, but a probable range of values related to the level of confidence. By considering this range, you might find that two materials with different averages could actually be similar or not statistically different. This means that stating definitive differences between two products can be misleading if the statistical analysis shows they are indistinguishable. The number of samples you use will significantly impact this range, with more samples leading to a narrower, more precise confidence interval. I recommend overlaying this range around the mean on your graph, similar to the method used by Stefan of CNC Kitchen. This would provide a clearer picture of the variability and reliability of the data. I really appreciate your work and encourage you to continue producing such high-quality content. Incorporating a more thorough statistical analysis would make your comparisons even more robust and reliable.
I took your advise and used TPU for printing very strong objects to print some weight blocks ( to stop barbell from rollling when i put down weights) i printed 4 walls. 4 bottom and top layers with 32% infill and they hold all of my weights no problem! I used 95A hardness. TPU really is Incredible material.
@@802Garage Harder to get nice quality though. I always end up with strings and issues wherever there has been a travel move. For my purposes it's okay but I'd love to be able to get it printing cleaner. Strings are okay but the bobbles are annoying.
@@freedomofmotion Def some tuning can help. Flow rate, temperature, seam gap, wiping, retraction distance, retraction speed especially, travel speed, travel acceleration, turn off Z-hop, and more, but those are all key.
@@802Garage Got any tips? I am printing fast with it though but found I had the same issues printing slow. Printing at 15mm³s I think the default flow rate limit was 3.2 !
@@freedomofmotion TBH the fact you're able to print that fast at all is impressive. Typically around 6mm³/s is the limit. I'd tune flow, then temperature, then retraction distance, and I'd run as short a distance as possible to eliminate stringing while running very fast retract speed. The fast retract speed is to basically eliminate the elastic pressure as fast as possible and prevent oozing. No Z-hop, do have wiping on, retract 100% before wipe probably, very fast travel speed and travel acceleration.
Everything I print is a functional part, and over the years I've moved to using PACF, ASA, and TPU for nearly everything. Using a cheaper material but having to use more of it or do several iterations to get it strong enough isn't cheaper than printing it once in a quality material and moving on to the next project.
Thank you for all your work with this summary. It’s great information and good timing as I’m working on some projects and have been trying to figure out the the best filament.
Excellent summary,Igor, thanks. I use your patreon summary table and find it extremely helpful. Since my parts are used outdoors and in the ocean I started out using PETG but found the parts were shattering during impact. Based on your work I switched to Polylite ASA and it has been a vast improvement. Thank you again. Tom
Which impact you encountered during usage? I found out asa has worse layer adhesion than petg, but it is more lightweight. I also need material for water usage on a board
@@vim55k three types of impact where I saw breaking 1. Small light spar buoy tipping over and parts impacting a laminate floor from about 1 m height, 20C ambient. PETG shattered, ASA dented but fine. 2. 4.5 kg (10lb) steel ballast weight supports using PETG on a hydrophone mooring, having pieces shatter off when laying the mooring over on its side. Fairly heavy weight but not a fast deceleration, again 20C ambient temp. 3. Moving fully ballasted (~35kg) moorings around on steep rocky shore in cold temp (~4C) both PVC and PETG foot parts broke while heaving the mooring from rock to rock. Even with TPU foot pads to reduce the shock. I use beefier TPU foot pads now and ASA supports. My ASA layer adhesion is pretty good now. BBL X1C, high temp plate, Magigoo adhesive, 41 to 45C chamber temp (I preheat with bed at 95C and aux fan on 40% until heated), 95C bed, PolyLite ASA, Flow 0.96, shrinkage 99.5%, Nozzle 265C hardened steel, Max vol speed 12 mm^3/s, 0% fan at 20s layer, 80%fan at 1s layer, 80% fan for overhangs, No aux fan.
I think generally PLA for anything indoors and unheated, PETG for anything that needs a bit of flex, ABS-GlassFibre for anything else/engineering. Nylon fills a specific niche of flexibility and low-friction (gears for example), PC is only slightly stronger than ABS-GF so if you dont need the heat deflection its rarely worth it as both PA and PC are just such a pain to work with due to the hygroscopic nature of them. These tests you do are so useful because they have a consistent methodology!
I use prusa PCCF, it doesn't seem to care about moisture and thats a big plus compared nylons. For automotive use i find PC the best, with the combination of stiffness, creep and temp resistance. But i also use abs and petg for less demanding stuff. PLA for prototype and kids stuff:)
@@vim55k While poor layer adhesion can come from plenty of things not having the fan on definitely is not ideal for ASA. I'd try a low fan speed(20-30%) at reduced print speeds with dried filament. ASA should generally have very solid layer adhesion.
@@minted3d650 I don't know about what good layer adhesion of asa you are talking about. I tried asa only recently, but even with no fan and high temperature I could tear by hand the layers of a thin wall. Where with petg the layers are fused
@@vim55k Like I said your print settings are wrong. I've been printing with ASA from different brands for years and as you can see from this video the layer adhesion for ASA is generally pretty strong(he's tested many brands extensively). You're confusing your own anecdotal experience with improper print settings with material properties. Try at least 30% (or higher) cooling for starters, no cooling is not ideal.
So to summarize it seems like ASA is a pretty good middle of the road filament but you'll need a heated and ventilated chamber. Nylon is best for when you need flexibility and high temp resistance and poly carbonate its best when you need very strong rigid parts. But for both nylon and PC you would need a hardened nozzle and probably a heated ventilated chamber too. Both nylon and PC are difficult to print. For this reason I have chosen ASA as my preferred high strength, high heat filament.
I think this types of videos are the type where you really need (and I do mean everyone who is in the 3D printing hobby) to visit this channel every month or year to see the progress of material strength. I mean PLA has been improving quite a bit and other materials are also getting a tad bit easier to print too
I was happy to see ASA among the best in most of the categories. It is my go-to filament for just about everything. I did get some Gizmo Dorks PC and that stuff is super strong. It’s also difficult to print. I probably used 100g just calibrating it to print successfully. I still never got a large print to complete because it would warp off the bed. I even used nano polymer adhesive and maxed out bed at 120 and chamber at 60. I can print 100mm parts, but beyond that it's hit-or-miss.
Yes, same with gizmo dorks PC for me - wraps, pulls up the bed at 65 chamber bed 120. So I moved to overture PC , haven't tried yet larged objects, but it seems strong and easily printable
Nice and short video! Would be interested to see how some of these tests are affected by printing the test models at a 30-45° angle so the layers no longer align with the stressor.
You should print with the best conditions specific to type of filament to produce strength and adhesion. Cooling, chamber temperature, higher temperature etc.
I would like to try PC for more prints but PC available seem to be a blend and the components in the blend varies widely between suppliers. Makes it difficult to select a high temperature PC or a tough PC because it’s depends on the blend.
Hello Igor, great video as always! I just finally joined your Patreon :) Have you tried asking Extrudr to send you their Greentec and Greentec Pro (also the CF version) filaments before? I use a lot of their PLA NX2 and Matte PETG and have bought a few Greentec ones. I see you tested their PETG, PCTG, ASA, TPU but not their signature Greentec Pro material which claims really high temperature resistence. At least according to their own characteristic details it seems similar to that Filaticum Engineering PLA. Would really love to see you test more Extrudr filaments.
PETG having an impact strength below or similar to PLA has been a common result in your videos, however it doesnt match my experience at all, and i struggle to figure out why. maybe it has something to do with the notch in the impact sample? just recently i had the same leftovers part both in petg and pla (100% infill, x-y direction, 30mm x 8mm, not pla+/petg-cf or some modified version) and i was able to snap the pla part by just hitting it with the edge of my hand while the petg wouldnt even break with a hammer (it just bounce back like crazy and you could also bend it like 60 degrees with a wrench without breaking). and this isnt the only case, over the years of printing i have always encountered PLA to be much more brittle than PETG. i like to use your videos to find new materials and get an idea about their properties, but this always makes me doubt the numbers.
I'd say all of these are super dependent on temperatures, cooling, line widths and printing speeds. There's just so many variables. My experience matches yours.
I have the same experience with petg - bends and doesn't break. But I print with only 10% fan. Same is in video of NeedItMakeit channel, when he removed cooling. This channel consistently ignores this parameter . Petg needs no or little cooling. I told him several times, but doesn't answer and usually doesn't even mention the cooling numbers. Petg or PC depend on cooling
One thought I had, though I'm not sure how to test it, is that ABS tends to permanently deform before breaking. I think that the deformation absorbs a lot of the energy, but a printed part would still usually be "broken" even though it has not detached completely. What would those numbers look like vs. even something usually considered weaker like PLA?
What about PVB? I'm interested in it. It might have interesting properties. example question: Does smoothing the first layer (dissolve it in alcohol) add to layer strength?
is there a way i can get the results? i really love your work, im a junior in 3D print and there are many things i don´t know but this info would be a treasure for me 🤩
But what about all those fibers coming from the abrasive filaments, how healthy are they when they are airborn or in your skin.. Those tests are obviously great but what about real world usage of a functional print, does one need the strongest material or would petg already be sufficient for an functional part. Or is it also so brittle that it can't take a hit when dropped accidentally.
Since I got my X1 Carbon, I have been printing parts that require strength in CF Nylon and PC, I would like to see a video comparing different brands of CF Nylon filaments, I know I can look up the data you have collated but I would like to watch a video all the same.
@@MyTechFun Me too. I've been using Filalab PCTG for a few months for everything and it seems really nice and I would love to see it compared to everything else.
I also don't know what filaticum does with their NGPLA but i know for sure they doing horribly wrong with distribution, communication, and etc. Why? Is there anything wrong with that stuff? Like questionable additives, fumes or whatnot? That material could outperform almost everything among the entry level materials. Honestly i thought they going to be world famous with that stuff. Is there nobody at that company who start sending that stuff to other youtubers who can confirm your results? I mean they really don't want to make and sell that stuff worldwide?
As others have point out, most so called PC filaments in the market are blends, not true PC. True PC is very difficult to print, hardly stick to the bed, and curls like crazy. Got it to print reliably with my X1C, but have to set the head at 300C, 110C bed, and limit the flow to 4mm3/s. By far the strongest thing my printers produce. But in the end I went back up bambu's "PC". Twice as expensive, but printing more than twice as fast, and strong enough for my applications.
Yes, true pure PC needs 120-130° chamber temp to print properly, or 90-100° if carbon or glass fiber filled. Anything that is printable at lower temps has additives that increase the printability but lower thermal and mechanical properties (mostly PETG, but sometimes PLA).
@@MyTechFun if you want something very similar to PC but much more printable try TreeD PC-PBT-GF or AddNorth PC Blend HT LCF. Both are filled PC-PBT, where semi-crystalline PBT is added to increase rigidity, thermal resistance, and chemical resistance. Just print it hot (300° hotend if possible) to make the PBT crystallize while printing. The amazing thing is that they are incredibly easier to print compared to pure PC, and should achieve similar or better results in theory. If they live up to their claims they should be the highest performing but still printable filament you ever tested
Helló, bocs hogy magyarul írok ide de témában vág nekem most aktuális is. Általában PLA val nyomtatok, de most hogy ekkora melegek vannak nyáron aggódok. Csináltam én is egy tesztet,hogy autóba tettem két darabot a napon a PLA meghajlott de kartondobozba téve nem. Aggódom hogy rendelésre készítek valakinek PLA-ból valamit és szállításkor a futárnál a kartondoboz ellenére, mire oda ér csak egy össze olvadt anyagot kapnak. A másik ha a szobába rásüt a nap mondjuk a polcon a tárgyra már azt sem bírja akkor a PLA? Mi lenne a tanács merjek PLA-ból gyártani?
@@MyTechFun Lehet hogy félre ért, Nem autóba 50 fokra terveznék tárgyat, a kérdés kibírja e a szállítást és a meleget nyáron a lakásban anélkül hogy vetemedne? Ha nem akkor mire való a PLA?
i'm currently printing some accessories for the car and stumbled upon GreenTec Pro filament from Extrudr. It prints like PLA but is supposed to withstand over 100°C. Might perhaps be something interesting to test in your setup?
@@Interspieder i only printed two models so far, but really can't complain about layer adhesion. I heard that it gets significantly worse when the filament is not dried, so i print it directly from the filament dryer while running it at 50°C
I think a larger emphasis on printability and practical use in general would improve these videos. The "strength" is so subjective that 98% of users just print PLA anyway. Emphasizing when to use each types of strength and the worst weaknesses to look out for is the key people need. The spreadsheets are nice but most do not translate it themselves to actual use cases. I think for example PLA has so much better printability that any part that isnt a flat mechanical part is simply best printed in PLA. I myself use a HT PLA because I need to up the temperature and thus a high temperature PLA is the perfect solution for almost all use cases. For almost all 3d printed parts, there isnt much stress on the actual part. It is grossly inferior to use 3d printed parts for parts where it is very important that durality and longevity is the key. Injectionmolded or CNC cut aluminum for example will almost always be vastly superior. So much so that 3d printing seems like toys in comparison. There are great uses. Uses where 3d printing is superior and the choice or material is so important that it makes or breaks the entire concept. This is what needs to be discussed. We want to hear more intelligent and indepth analysis of the materials and comparisons as to why. Else it's just an endless stream of different materials and some graphs showing arbitrary information noone will use anyway. I think ease of use, printability, shrinkage, warping are much more important. If people cannot just take the material in their x1c and print a large difficult model in the material without messing around a lot to make it almost work, the largest part of the audience will simply feel scammed when they buy ABS and weird PCs and have to sit with mediochre results for their large prints and struggle with either fans and poor results or no fans and poor overhangs as an example for ABS. This is the type of issues real people see and struggle with. Noone struggles with printing a small mechanical part, but the fact that they then cannot print what they want with the material due to weaknesses in the material is a very important thing to discuss. Any material always needs to be compared to PLA and difficulties with printing should always be factored in. What it is made for and not made for and what it can print and cannot print is much more important than if it is considered "stronger" or not.
@@LordNerfherder for scientific use cases such as mine, the usual scenario is one off or very low volume parts but they still need to be functional. When I had to have the parts machined I paid hundreds to thousands of $ for parts for a project, with 3d printing I now pay less than $50 for the same parts for the project, get the parts faster and can iterate my designs cost effectively. This has made a huge difference to the quality, ease of use, and cost of systems for my clients. Igor’s tables have been very useful for this, so I really appreciate his efforts. Having said that, there are many choices and processing techniques which could be discussed and demonstrated which may help people achieve what they need. These include (as you say) choosing the correct material, designing strain reliefs into the parts to prevent warping of large parts ( I put slots every 50 to 75 mm in my larger parts starting a few mm above the bed and it work excellently), limiting print speed to enhance strength, limiting cooling when possible to enhance strength, preheating the chamber in the X1C, (as you said) calibrating the filament for shrinkage before printing, choosing the correct bed material, bed adhesive choice, and choosing the appropriate support material for the interface layers when necessary. Discussion of more of these lessons learned could help many I’m sure.
Please be careful with carbon fiber filaments. Nathan builds robots just released a video where he shows tiny fibers sticking to the skin. Wouldn't want that in sensitive areas or your lungs
I use CF filaments when needed, but never on parts that will be frequently touched, for those reasons, and i dont think i would print it if i had to have the printer at home :)
Igor does give individual results for free in individual videos, like Stephan. But for Stephan's results, you have to hunt through individual videos and cross-refer between them. Unlike CNC kitchen, Igor also publishes a full comparison table of all the results for filaments he's ever tested, which Stephan hasn't. It's not so easy to compare Stephan's results between materials that were tested in separate videos.
Great summary. It would be great to add 'error bars' to represent the standard deviation of the different filaments of each category.
You're providing an extremely valuable service to the 3D printing community. Your tests give a really good insight as to what to expect from materials and does save lots of trial and error when selecting the filament for any particular project.
Thank you. Pity that YT algorithm don't share your opinion ;-)
I cannot wait for you to get the tensile test machine.
great work. This proves that there's no "one filament to rule them all". The table is super useful when deciding what to use like you showcased.
Thank you for your hard work. As an engineer myself, I truly appreciate the effort. After watching Jonathan Levi's recent video (The First Layer), I've started to donate to some specific open source projects where I actually use their product. And I just signed up for your Patreon so I can get the juicy, delicious data!
PC - I've spent decades specifying PC into products ranging from small appliances, to power tools, to retail security products. It's used in motorcycle helmets, auto headlamps, etc and so much more because it's NOT brittle. That's what enables it to absorb impact so well. It's actually somewhat soft (easy-to-scratch) when injection molded compared to some other options.
For it to be so brittle in FDM, I can only think of two possible causes. 1) there are induced stresses during the 3D printing process or 2) in order to make it flow and be printable, the filament makers have added "something" to it, like adding glycol to PET to make it PETG so it flows better.
I would be very interested in testing to see whether or not annealing can improve 3D printed PC properties. And, perhaps with your contacts with Polymaker, eSun and other manufacturers, if they would be willing to advise on whether any additives are put into the PC we get as filament. We don't need to understand their trade secrets, but at least we'd know whether or not it's virgin PC, to explain the test performance.
Thank you so much
I especially appreciate the kind word from the enginner colleague. Companies keep their secret. they don't want to share that info with me. I even visited Filaticum company, I tried to find out, how can they make PLA filaments with 150C temperature resistance. I have many interesting filaments here for the testing, but it needs time.
PETG is actually PET with the glycol *removed*, not added, in fact it's PolyEthylene Terephthalate Glycol-modified. Key word modified and not added
I came here to mention how I was surprised at how the PC was less impact resistant than expected.
I suspect it is a few factors:
1) How pure is the PC? Certainly those that print at "low" temps (
PC should be printed with the fan off!
I turn on only 20% for overhangs.
The overture PC then is not brittle to my feeling
PETG isn't PET with added glycol. Quite the opposite: PET is made by polymerising PolyEthylene glycol with Terephthalic acid to form PolyEthylene Terephthalate. PETG is made by modifying the process to *replace* a proportion of the polyethylene glycol and substitute a different monomer, altering properties such as crystallinity. PETG is polyethylene terephthalate glycol-_modified_.
Hey Igor, would you mind to do your tests with smoothed abs (via acetone fumes) compared to not smoothed abs/asa. This is something i would find really interresting. Regards Steffen. 😊
My bet they would be just slightly better than raw prints.
Igor, what a nice summary of the properties of different materials ❤ Super cool video!
Thanks! 😃
I wanted to commend you on your excellent introduction to FDM printer filaments characteristics. The video is very informative and provides a comprehensive overview that is easy to understand.
However, I noticed that in your calculations, you only use the average for each material to compare their performance. It’s important to consider not just the average but also the standard deviation and the confidence interval. The end result isn't just a single value, the average, but a probable range of values related to the level of confidence.
By considering this range, you might find that two materials with different averages could actually be similar or not statistically different. This means that stating definitive differences between two products can be misleading if the statistical analysis shows they are indistinguishable.
The number of samples you use will significantly impact this range, with more samples leading to a narrower, more precise confidence interval. I recommend overlaying this range around the mean on your graph, similar to the method used by Stefan of CNC Kitchen. This would provide a clearer picture of the variability and reliability of the data.
I really appreciate your work and encourage you to continue producing such high-quality content. Incorporating a more thorough statistical analysis would make your comparisons even more robust and reliable.
Good post, i hope Igor reads it :)
I took your advise and used TPU for printing very strong objects to print some weight blocks ( to stop barbell from rollling when i put down weights) i printed 4 walls. 4 bottom and top layers with 32% infill and they hold all of my weights no problem!
I used 95A hardness. TPU really is Incredible material.
It seriously is! So many uses.
@@802Garage Harder to get nice quality though. I always end up with strings and issues wherever there has been a travel move.
For my purposes it's okay but I'd love to be able to get it printing cleaner. Strings are okay but the bobbles are annoying.
@@freedomofmotion Def some tuning can help. Flow rate, temperature, seam gap, wiping, retraction distance, retraction speed especially, travel speed, travel acceleration, turn off Z-hop, and more, but those are all key.
@@802Garage Got any tips?
I am printing fast with it though but found I had the same issues printing slow.
Printing at 15mm³s I think the default flow rate limit was 3.2 !
@@freedomofmotion TBH the fact you're able to print that fast at all is impressive. Typically around 6mm³/s is the limit. I'd tune flow, then temperature, then retraction distance, and I'd run as short a distance as possible to eliminate stringing while running very fast retract speed. The fast retract speed is to basically eliminate the elastic pressure as fast as possible and prevent oozing. No Z-hop, do have wiping on, retract 100% before wipe probably, very fast travel speed and travel acceleration.
Wow so polycarbonate is pretty gangster. Thanks!
Everything I print is a functional part, and over the years I've moved to using PACF, ASA, and TPU for nearly everything. Using a cheaper material but having to use more of it or do several iterations to get it strong enough isn't cheaper than printing it once in a quality material and moving on to the next project.
Thank you for all your work with this summary. It’s great information and good timing as I’m working on some projects and have been trying to figure out the the best filament.
Could you add normal materials like wood or some metal for the test as an outside world vs printing reference?
Isn't all that information already published? There are standards for bolts depending on grade.
Excellent summary,Igor, thanks. I use your patreon summary table and find it extremely helpful. Since my parts are used outdoors and in the ocean I started out using PETG but found the parts were shattering during impact. Based on your work I switched to Polylite ASA and it has been a vast improvement. Thank you again.
Tom
Which impact you encountered during usage?
I found out asa has worse layer adhesion than petg, but it is more lightweight.
I also need material for water usage on a board
@@vim55k three types of impact where I saw breaking
1. Small light spar buoy tipping over and parts impacting a laminate floor from about 1 m height, 20C ambient. PETG shattered, ASA dented but fine.
2. 4.5 kg (10lb) steel ballast weight supports using PETG on a hydrophone mooring, having pieces shatter off when laying the mooring over on its side. Fairly heavy weight but not a fast deceleration, again 20C ambient temp.
3. Moving fully ballasted (~35kg) moorings around on steep rocky shore in cold temp (~4C) both PVC and PETG foot parts broke while heaving the mooring from rock to rock. Even with TPU foot pads to reduce the shock. I use beefier TPU foot pads now and ASA supports.
My ASA layer adhesion is pretty good now. BBL X1C, high temp plate, Magigoo adhesive, 41 to 45C chamber temp (I preheat with bed at 95C and aux fan on 40% until heated), 95C bed, PolyLite ASA, Flow 0.96, shrinkage 99.5%, Nozzle 265C hardened steel, Max vol speed 12 mm^3/s, 0% fan at 20s layer, 80%fan at 1s layer, 80% fan for overhangs, No aux fan.
Wow! What a great resource your tests and videos are!
Would really like to see a version of this with cf and gf filled materials
Another fantastic video, thank you!
I think generally PLA for anything indoors and unheated, PETG for anything that needs a bit of flex, ABS-GlassFibre for anything else/engineering. Nylon fills a specific niche of flexibility and low-friction (gears for example), PC is only slightly stronger than ABS-GF so if you dont need the heat deflection its rarely worth it as both PA and PC are just such a pain to work with due to the hygroscopic nature of them.
These tests you do are so useful because they have a consistent methodology!
Actually I tried asa and it was very bad layer adhesion relative to PC. Printed without fan
I use prusa PCCF, it doesn't seem to care about moisture and thats a big plus compared nylons. For automotive use i find PC the best, with the combination of stiffness, creep and temp resistance. But i also use abs and petg for less demanding stuff. PLA for prototype and kids stuff:)
@@vim55k While poor layer adhesion can come from plenty of things not having the fan on definitely is not ideal for ASA. I'd try a low fan speed(20-30%) at reduced print speeds with dried filament. ASA should generally have very solid layer adhesion.
@@minted3d650 I don't know about what good layer adhesion of asa you are talking about. I tried asa only recently, but even with no fan and high temperature I could tear by hand the layers of a thin wall.
Where with petg the layers are fused
@@vim55k Like I said your print settings are wrong. I've been printing with ASA from different brands for years and as you can see from this video the layer adhesion for ASA is generally pretty strong(he's tested many brands extensively). You're confusing your own anecdotal experience with improper print settings with material properties. Try at least 30% (or higher) cooling for starters, no cooling is not ideal.
So to summarize it seems like ASA is a pretty good middle of the road filament but you'll need a heated and ventilated chamber. Nylon is best for when you need flexibility and high temp resistance and poly carbonate its best when you need very strong rigid parts. But for both nylon and PC you would need a hardened nozzle and probably a heated ventilated chamber too. Both nylon and PC are difficult to print. For this reason I have chosen ASA as my preferred high strength, high heat filament.
I think this types of videos are the type where you really need (and I do mean everyone who is in the 3D printing hobby) to visit this channel every month or year to see the progress of material strength. I mean PLA has been improving quite a bit and other materials are also getting a tad bit easier to print too
Igor! Greatly looking forward to this, my bet's on PC for most mechanical tests :)
Really enjoying your content. My X max 3 comes tomorrow
Thank you for your work
All cf and gf pla really change the average results.
You should compare with and without.
Great work!
Maybe in a separate video fiber vs non-fiber filaments :-)
Great video! I also find your Patreon excel sheet very useful!
I was happy to see ASA among the best in most of the categories. It is my go-to filament for just about everything. I did get some Gizmo Dorks PC and that stuff is super strong. It’s also difficult to print. I probably used 100g just calibrating it to print successfully. I still never got a large print to complete because it would warp off the bed. I even used nano polymer adhesive and maxed out bed at 120 and chamber at 60. I can print 100mm parts, but beyond that it's hit-or-miss.
Yes, same with gizmo dorks PC for me - wraps, pulls up the bed at 65 chamber bed 120.
So I moved to overture PC , haven't tried yet larged objects, but it seems strong and easily printable
Nice and short video! Would be interested to see how some of these tests are affected by printing the test models at a 30-45° angle so the layers no longer align with the stressor.
For better resaults, all filaments should be same color or at least natural colors.
PC is actually the best material for almost everything, it's just too expensive and too difficult to print...
Hm, yes, I could mention the printability and dimensional accuracy in the video..
It is great and but it is not always so simple. Polylite pc is also faily inexpensive.
I agree, if money is not an issue than Prusament PC Blend and PC Blend CF are the best.
I print Overture PC, it is strong and prints easily and only $30 in natural
I really want a long-term deformation test. Forget 24 hours, I want to see what happens after 90 days, after a year.
Did you print the ABS and ASA in a heated chamber?
Printing with a chamber temp of 55-65°C makes a huge difference in layer adhesion.
I love your Chanel and honestly I base a lot of my filament choices of your testing 👍
You should print with the best conditions specific to type of filament to produce strength and adhesion.
Cooling, chamber temperature, higher temperature etc.
I would like to try PC for more prints but PC available seem to be a blend and the components in the blend varies widely between suppliers. Makes it difficult to select a high temperature PC or a tough PC because it’s depends on the blend.
Great summary!
Thank you! I am glad that you find the info useful.
As my engineering school said, there is such good material, but it depends on the application.
Hello Igor,
great video as always! I just finally joined your Patreon :)
Have you tried asking Extrudr to send you their Greentec and Greentec Pro (also the CF version) filaments before? I use a lot of their PLA NX2 and Matte PETG and have bought a few Greentec ones. I see you tested their PETG, PCTG, ASA, TPU but not their signature Greentec Pro material which claims really high temperature resistence. At least according to their own characteristic details it seems similar to that Filaticum Engineering PLA.
Would really love to see you test more Extrudr filaments.
PETG having an impact strength below or similar to PLA has been a common result in your videos, however it doesnt match my experience at all, and i struggle to figure out why. maybe it has something to do with the notch in the impact sample?
just recently i had the same leftovers part both in petg and pla (100% infill, x-y direction, 30mm x 8mm, not pla+/petg-cf or some modified version) and i was able to snap the pla part by just hitting it with the edge of my hand while the petg wouldnt even break with a hammer (it just bounce back like crazy and you could also bend it like 60 degrees with a wrench without breaking). and this isnt the only case, over the years of printing i have always encountered PLA to be much more brittle than PETG.
i like to use your videos to find new materials and get an idea about their properties, but this always makes me doubt the numbers.
I'd say all of these are super dependent on temperatures, cooling, line widths and printing speeds. There's just so many variables. My experience matches yours.
His testing is correct, it depends on the speed of impact.
I have the same experience with petg - bends and doesn't break. But I print with only 10% fan.
Same is in video of NeedItMakeit channel, when he removed cooling.
This channel consistently ignores this parameter . Petg needs no or little cooling.
I told him several times, but doesn't answer and usually doesn't even mention the cooling numbers.
Petg or PC depend on cooling
@@vim55k when y0u bend it it doesn't break because that is a slow action. The impact test is a fast action, he is doing everything alright no worries.
@@riba2233 ok, but look at the video of NeedItMakeit, he throws petg objects made of petg from a height to a floor. He made two such videos
Thanks as always for your great work and efforts, Igor.
One thought I had, though I'm not sure how to test it, is that ABS tends to permanently deform before breaking. I think that the deformation absorbs a lot of the energy, but a printed part would still usually be "broken" even though it has not detached completely. What would those numbers look like vs. even something usually considered weaker like PLA?
who said that ABS is a dead material? the impact resistant of PETG is a joke.
Really cool video.
Thank you!
What about PVB? I'm interested in it. It might have interesting properties. example question: Does smoothing the first layer (dissolve it in alcohol) add to layer strength?
is there a way i can get the results? i really love your work, im a junior in 3D print and there are many things i don´t know but this info would be a treasure for me 🤩
Excellent video, and thank you for sharing this data!
You are doing amazing work! Sub + like and thank you!
Отличная работа! Я рад что подписан на этот канал. Четко и по делу!
Spasibo
Thanks for the nice overview!
The wonders of PC. Even though I have 3 kg of PC I haven’t printed with it yet as I don’t have an enclosed printer atm 😢
You can print small parts without an enclosure.
Cheap solution to make plastic gears that works with metal worm shaft from electric motor ?
Think it would be benifical to show the span within the samples
But what about all those fibers coming from the abrasive filaments, how healthy are they when they are airborn or in your skin..
Those tests are obviously great but what about real world usage of a functional print, does one need the strongest material or would petg already be sufficient for an functional part.
Or is it also so brittle that it can't take a hit when dropped accidentally.
PC is the best period.
Not that simple
Which brand do you use?
Since I got my X1 Carbon, I have been printing parts that require strength in CF Nylon and PC, I would like to see a video comparing different brands of CF Nylon filaments, I know I can look up the data you have collated but I would like to watch a video all the same.
He tested 4 of them (polymaker, yxpolyer, prusament) and one is discontinued (creality), so not an lssue to find.
cool
what about pctg? I would like to include data of it
I tested only 2-3 PCTG filaments, I don't have enough data so far.
@@MyTechFun Me too. I've been using Filalab PCTG for a few months for everything and it seems really nice and I would love to see it compared to everything else.
@@TNX255 PCTG seems to be almost the same as PETG ... just a little bit better.
@@uhu4677 Trust me I know :D But by how much exactly, it would be interesting to know. At least it seems to have better layer adhesion and toughness.
I also don't know what filaticum does with their NGPLA but i know for sure they doing horribly wrong with distribution, communication, and etc. Why? Is there anything wrong with that stuff? Like questionable additives, fumes or whatnot? That material could outperform almost everything among the entry level materials. Honestly i thought they going to be world famous with that stuff. Is there nobody at that company who start sending that stuff to other youtubers who can confirm your results? I mean they really don't want to make and sell that stuff worldwide?
As others have point out, most so called PC filaments in the market are blends, not true PC.
True PC is very difficult to print, hardly stick to the bed, and curls like crazy.
Got it to print reliably with my X1C, but have to set the head at 300C, 110C bed, and limit the flow to 4mm3/s. By far the strongest thing my printers produce.
But in the end I went back up bambu's "PC". Twice as expensive, but printing more than twice as fast, and strong enough for my applications.
What brand of PC you tried?
Yes, true pure PC needs 120-130° chamber temp to print properly, or 90-100° if carbon or glass fiber filled.
Anything that is printable at lower temps has additives that increase the printability but lower thermal and mechanical properties (mostly PETG, but sometimes PLA).
@@MyTechFun if you want something very similar to PC but much more printable try TreeD PC-PBT-GF or AddNorth PC Blend HT LCF.
Both are filled PC-PBT, where semi-crystalline PBT is added to increase rigidity, thermal resistance, and chemical resistance. Just print it hot (300° hotend if possible) to make the PBT crystallize while printing.
The amazing thing is that they are incredibly easier to print compared to pure PC, and should achieve similar or better results in theory.
If they live up to their claims they should be the highest performing but still printable filament you ever tested
Which PC brand?
@@adeopcpbtgf is good price €55, but the other is twice that.
Treed has good prices, but it doesn't offer option to buy online
Helló, bocs hogy magyarul írok ide de témában vág nekem most aktuális is. Általában PLA val nyomtatok, de most hogy ekkora melegek vannak nyáron aggódok. Csináltam én is egy tesztet,hogy autóba tettem két darabot a napon a PLA meghajlott de kartondobozba téve nem. Aggódom hogy rendelésre készítek valakinek PLA-ból valamit és szállításkor a futárnál a kartondoboz ellenére, mire oda ér csak egy össze olvadt anyagot kapnak. A másik ha a szobába rásüt a nap mondjuk a polcon a tárgyra már azt sem bírja akkor a PLA? Mi lenne a tanács merjek PLA-ból gyártani?
PLA ne, legalább PETG. ruclips.net/video/QdAKd_YbsjI/видео.html
@@MyTechFun Lehet hogy félre ért, Nem autóba 50 fokra terveznék tárgyat, a kérdés kibírja e a szállítást és a meleget nyáron a lakásban anélkül hogy vetemedne? Ha nem akkor mire való a PLA?
i'm currently printing some accessories for the car and stumbled upon GreenTec Pro filament from Extrudr. It prints like PLA but is supposed to withstand over 100°C. Might perhaps be something interesting to test in your setup?
What is your experience with layer adhesion? I switched to Extrudr PCTG because of the poor layer adhesion of GreenTec Pro.
@@Interspieder extrudr pctg is crazy, just needs really high temps :)
@@riba2233 I really like it aswell. Printing at 265°C with 25% cooling. Overhangs look perfect and layer adhesion is really good.
@@Interspieder i only printed two models so far, but really can't complain about layer adhesion. I heard that it gets significantly worse when the filament is not dried, so i print it directly from the filament dryer while running it at 50°C
Yypoler pc is very hard to get
I think a larger emphasis on printability and practical use in general would improve these videos. The "strength" is so subjective that 98% of users just print PLA anyway. Emphasizing when to use each types of strength and the worst weaknesses to look out for is the key people need. The spreadsheets are nice but most do not translate it themselves to actual use cases.
I think for example PLA has so much better printability that any part that isnt a flat mechanical part is simply best printed in PLA. I myself use a HT PLA because I need to up the temperature and thus a high temperature PLA is the perfect solution for almost all use cases. For almost all 3d printed parts, there isnt much stress on the actual part. It is grossly inferior to use 3d printed parts for parts where it is very important that durality and longevity is the key. Injectionmolded or CNC cut aluminum for example will almost always be vastly superior. So much so that 3d printing seems like toys in comparison.
There are great uses. Uses where 3d printing is superior and the choice or material is so important that it makes or breaks the entire concept. This is what needs to be discussed. We want to hear more intelligent and indepth analysis of the materials and comparisons as to why. Else it's just an endless stream of different materials and some graphs showing arbitrary information noone will use anyway. I think ease of use, printability, shrinkage, warping are much more important.
If people cannot just take the material in their x1c and print a large difficult model in the material without messing around a lot to make it almost work, the largest part of the audience will simply feel scammed when they buy ABS and weird PCs and have to sit with mediochre results for their large prints and struggle with either fans and poor results or no fans and poor overhangs as an example for ABS. This is the type of issues real people see and struggle with. Noone struggles with printing a small mechanical part, but the fact that they then cannot print what they want with the material due to weaknesses in the material is a very important thing to discuss.
Any material always needs to be compared to PLA and difficulties with printing should always be factored in. What it is made for and not made for and what it can print and cannot print is much more important than if it is considered "stronger" or not.
@@LordNerfherder for scientific use cases such as mine, the usual scenario is one off or very low volume parts but they still need to be functional. When I had to have the parts machined I paid hundreds to thousands of $ for parts for a project, with 3d printing I now pay less than $50 for the same parts for the project, get the parts faster and can iterate my designs cost effectively. This has made a huge difference to the quality, ease of use, and cost of systems for my clients. Igor’s tables have been very useful for this, so I really appreciate his efforts.
Having said that, there are many choices and processing techniques which could be discussed and demonstrated which may help people achieve what they need. These include (as you say) choosing the correct material, designing strain reliefs into the parts to prevent warping of large parts ( I put slots every 50 to 75 mm in my larger parts starting a few mm above the bed and it work excellently), limiting print speed to enhance strength, limiting cooling when possible to enhance strength, preheating the chamber in the X1C, (as you said) calibrating the filament for shrinkage before printing, choosing the correct bed material, bed adhesive choice, and choosing the appropriate support material for the interface layers when necessary. Discussion of more of these lessons learned could help many I’m sure.
Please be careful with carbon fiber filaments. Nathan builds robots just released a video where he shows tiny fibers sticking to the skin. Wouldn't want that in sensitive areas or your lungs
I use CF filaments when needed, but never on parts that will be frequently touched, for those reasons, and i dont think i would print it if i had to have the printer at home :)
cnc kitchen gives this for free
Igor does give individual results for free in individual videos, like Stephan. But for Stephan's results, you have to hunt through individual videos and cross-refer between them. Unlike CNC kitchen, Igor also publishes a full comparison table of all the results for filaments he's ever tested, which Stephan hasn't. It's not so easy to compare Stephan's results between materials that were tested in separate videos.