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New World Fix bug by Breaking even more things (small update)
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- Опубликовано: 27 окт 2021
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When will it end
Amazon's new MMO breaks the entire auction house
![The Appeal, and Irony, of Fresh Start / Classic Servers [MMOPINION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QKsmkg-NWjw/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Appeal, and Irony, of Fresh Start / Classic Servers [MMOPINION]](/img/tr.png)
New World is the best-value game released this year. It's provided me with hours upon hours of entertainment, and I haven't bought or played it.
hahahah , gold :D
It reminds me of the previous best-value game, Fallout 76.
same here.
True Story.
I got a few free game keys this year from my friends but New World was the best one. Having it gifted to me made the overall disappointment a lot less worse when I witnessed how deeply flawed this game actually is.
Have you seen the new bug they implemented? Crouch healing. Crouching in a healing AOE makes it tick. So crouch spamming allows you to heal you 20 times a second.
I get way more entertainment about it's bugs rather than playing it.
Nice
and a new invincibilty bug is found lol
The Lipton School of Healing
Teabag-tanking
No healer in party just T-bag the trash mob and heal up
As a former Amazon Employee, I'm 100% sure that these devs are coding the game in their alloted piss-in-bottle time.
Jesus fucking christ...rembering a job,where i was a supervisor.
This genius PM gave our team 20 different micro utilities to manage. Yeah you read that right.
One of them was a live client service. Via a buggy chat interface. Get this ,nobody could take a piss if somebody wasnt covering for that person. I said fuck that noise and told my colleagues to ignore the rule.
Why ? Because nobody wanted to manage the live service. So nobody would do the job very good.
Result: you could piss as long as you wanted.
Moral of the story: stick for your colleagues they will do their job well if treated well it is a no fucking brainer.
Sorry went on a tangent here but it pisses me off (pun intended) when i hear the piss in a bottle shite where im sure it happens in some parts of the business world.
Are you sure it's not because they've either laid off the senior devs or moved them to a new project, leaving the junior devs with
@@eval_is_evil despite the ugly scene, I'm willing to bet you were respected for taking that stance - sups/mngrs who have no patience for pettiness or asinine rules, they're the ones who help you keep your sanity 👍 🍻
The people whi code this have nothing to do with this shit. I am absolute sure there are enough people who knew rhat this is comming. Problem here is... Amazon. And i still say.. everyone who buys anything from Amazon should be loose all his tooth :S
"Never Trust the Client" is a core tenant of online games since they came to be. I think this game is just fundamentally broken.
"Never Trust the Client" is good advise no matter your business.
it was built for singleplayer (client-based) then forcibly converted as an mmo
Yeaaah but GTA5/GTA Online still became the most financially successful entertainment product of all time despite that flaw.
@@DEMax87rus Sure, but there are dozens of hacks / cheat software available for it, precisely because of it. You really don't want that in an MMO, but if this game is truly not using an authorative server then someone will soon have a nice little tool handy that allows you to do whatever you want. (If those tools don't exist already).
IDK man open bnet on d2 trusted the hell out of the client and that was totally not broken as fuck. lol
Its good this indie company is really trying to fix things! Would be so cool if their budget for programmers where just higher :(
I really want to show my support to this small indie dev company. I have bought the game and donated all my life savings to the owner of this small online bookstore's owner, Jeff bezos. What else can I do to help?
It certainly feels like they have exactly 1.5 competent engineers on board. On one hand, pretty well optimised game. On the other, have you not played a single MMO before?
This week's episode, watch as the good engineer fix all the sql errors committed by the noob while he was on sick leave. You can hear the headdesking coming from uncle Jeff's underground bunker, punctuated by cries of anguish.
@@jcon2060 its a failure of capitalism lmfao not to be a downer but for real tho
@@jcon2060 You can start a gofundme for them.
@@Valvad0ss lol and you think Communism would be better?
I’m not gonna lie, following this whole fiasco has been funny af. Thanks for keeping us informed.
you mean misinformed lol.
A trashy company like Amazon made a trashy game. Who'daThunkit.
@@chtm misinformed?
@@nothingtoseehere9648 He's a NW fanboy
@@nothingtoseehere9648 Yep. This entire video is just wild and incorrect assumptions. The issue is related to a fix to server transfers, which has caused offline transactions to be blocked. They are still in the system and not "destroyed" like this guy is trying to claim. They are preparing a fix and players will get their coins. Amazon already communicated all this. Its not related to the invulnerability fixes as claimed here, which btw this same guy claimed just yesterday were unfixable without years or redesigning the entire game (and then they were literally fixed overnight lmao)
The problem is that Amazon's approach to everything is to do it at the largest possible scale leading to the brilliant idea "hey, let's break into the gaming scene with a *fucking MMORPG* like the absolute geniuses we are."
Nah, this is related to them not wanting the server to do any work. If the server has to calculate stuff, that costs *money*. Let the client do all the work instead, nothing will go wrong!
Oh wait, things did go wrong... Well, just add a special-case line of code that makes sure it doesn't happen again!
Oh shit, that broke more things. More special cases it is!
This will keep going because they sure as hell don't want the server to be doing the calculations...
You know this actually made me think of why some MMO's could also the their auction house into a mail system or require the item/gold to be physically picked up in game. It's basically an extra check/fallback in place to make sure that the client has to be online when receiving the thing.
That's what DCUO does for both sales and purchases. Purchases are sent to you via mail and sales send you a notification that your item sold with the money going straight to you, even offline.
That's what the majority of MMOs have, an ingame mailing system. Except Amazon decided they don't need it. This also could have been avoided if you could store money in your city banks, but since it wouldn't have any utility else than storing AH money, they didn't implement it.
This is basically what FF14 does. In this case the have Retainers, which is basically a separate, server-side character that handles your market selling and collects any gold you make. So the gold has somewhere to go and you just have to go pick it up from them.
WoW does this, both for items you buy and your auctions that expire. You get the item in the mail.
There's also a new major bug that when you crouch in a healing circle you get a heal instantly instead of waiting X seconds. Teabagging is a new valid healing option xD
Healing Circle Twerk
Also works on Ice Storm, everytime you crouch it ticks additional damage
Just like real life
just had a 2v2 in PVP and ofc im a healer and they have one healer
the fight lasted FOREVER and we only won cause we stunned one of them long enough to down him
lmao
if you see a life staff in pvp fucking run
That... is literally something that happened in FlyFF, the old, janky grind MMO. In that game, sitting down gives you a healing buff, but I realized that it ticks every time you sit down, so rapidly standing and sitting made the healing much faster.
So New World, Amazon's incredible super-MMO, has same kinds of bugs as an almost 20 years old Korean grind MMO. Great!
Current bug list
At this time, we are aware of:
Gold Duplication bug
Great Axe Bloodlust Proc
Equipping 2 life staffs
Trading Post - Not Receiving gold if sale happens while player is offline
Trading Post - Not receiving items if sale happens while player is offline
Housing compensation text appears as a string
Players cannot transfer servers due to active orders
Houses and houses items in them have disappeared
Players are unable to transfer to a different server if they have an “active” sell order (despite having cancelled all contracts)
Inconsistent Ice Storm spell effects. Does damage sometimes, does no damage sometimes, does damage initially, stops, then starts ticking again.
Resilient Perk giving damage absorption instead of critical damage absorption
Amber gem and Intelligence gems not working correctly (the %focus damage isn’t based on your focus/intelligence stats but only on weapon damage)
Players are spawning dead and unable to respawn
Fireball sometimes does not connect with enemies or even the ground, and just falls through the world
Thats longer than the actual patch notes lmao
Crouching on Heal AOE heals you instantly, so crouch spamming makes you heal 20 times a second.
That's alot less then a thought tbh ty for the list!
You forgot teabag tanking. Spamming crounch while in a aoe makes it tik way more than it should effectively making you invincible
if only they were all listed here ...
I believe the stock prices for Copium has gone up drastically following the numerous discoveries of gamebreaking New World bugs.
They've had decades of MMO history to learn from. Multiple successes and countless failures to take notes from... and still it feels like they constructed an entire stadium and filled it with rakes to stumble on.
I'm going to be honest, it is easy to cope when I'm having fun and focusing on crafting/dueling with friends, which isn't as effected. However, in a few weeks I'll hit my skill goals and level 60 and if it hasn't gotten better then I'll have to take a long break until things are fixed.
The funny thing is there are players who white knight this joke of a dev team :D "They are trying their hardest to fix this." yeah as they should but these kind of issues shouldn't be there to begin with.
@ it's good that you're still able to have fun. hopefully things are fixed before you hit that point, but how things are going it seems like instead you may have an entirely different set of issues to deal with by then
@@flossimoth Yes, indeed it looks like that might be the case. I hope those problems aren't as severe as the current ones xD
its as much of a mess as Fallout 76 was, and that game was foolishly based on the same engine as the regular Fallout games (which were already infamously buggy for even their intended use), clumsily patchworked into an MMO system. The New World engine, as far as I'm aware, was designed from the ground up for this purpose and yet seems utterly unfit for purpose as well.
3:10 Gold needs to be stored in their database/memory on the server. The gold has to be correct on the server but the client is just not updating correctly. If the server is trusting the client to know how much gold you are holding... well... You should be able to just have whatever amount of gold you want whenever you want since the server doesn't have that information to verify it's correct.
If the gold is vanishing on the server and also on the client, they just fucked up on the server side pretty hard.
Yeah this has nothing to do with sending gold to an offline client. Purely server side fuckery gone wrong.
At this point I wouldn't bet that amazon actually stores such information on the server side. Otherwise the missing gold would be visible after a relog or any other transaction, except the client stores that information, which would so insanely stupid, that every game dev at amazon studios should never manage to get any job in the industry again.
@@NineSun001 Of course its stored server side, and thinking otherwise is idiotic, joking or not. If it weren't it would have been known at day 1.
there's actually a metric fuckton more bugs - people were trading voidbent armour to circumvent the auction house and the gold was disappearing and half the time the item didn't move. crouch spamming in healing circles, people straight up losing houses randomly, disconnects in group and being unable to login even after server reset, if you delete items currently equipped on your character you get permanent stat reductions to the hundreds of negatives, the ice gauntlet bugs, the persistent buff bugs with greataxe, hatchet and more. at this point we're going to be stuck while they make all the current content work properly. not to mention, once they add new content - what's to stop it from breaking other parts of the game if and when they even do add any? I love the time I've spent in the game and do hope they can bring this around but I feel like people will be burnt out or agitated beyond saving by the time they finally do get it sorted out.
Hah! This game is literally unplayable then. Because any of those things could happen accidentally at any moment.
No way a lot of this stuff didn't come up in beta.
@@jayknight1099 some of it did, some of it probably wasn't super pronounced and some of it is a result of the most recent changes since the latest patch. the problem is the way they'll fix some of these issues will exacerbate or create new issues entirely like we're seeing with the trading post.
Of course. All you have to say is "New World is client authoritative" and any dev with experience acts like you said a great one liner joke. the amount of problems that stem from this simple fact for a PERSISTENT ONLINE MMO WITH PVP may very well be literally insurmountable. Its like trying to prevent the Titanic from sinking by spot welding.
Maybe the developers should do what most big developers do when they have to hotfix or patch something like the invulnerability glitch: create a test server and test it. Because this patch seems like it was really done by amateurs who are knee jerk reacting to every problem probably cause Amazon is breathing down their neck because all the parent company cares about is PR and profit margins.
In Guild Wars 2 the gold from your auctions waits for you in the auction house (aka trading post) itself. In WoW it waits for you in the in-game mail. In FF XIV on your retainers. I believe that would solve the problem, or rather the problem would not exist if the dev did their homework. Maybe if they had a bit more money...
The gold isn't even immediately given to the retainer. When you first hit the bell, the amount of gold it says the retainer has isn't updated based on sales since you last summoned the retainer - you have to go into the retainer's menu for it to process the transactions. Thus, having the retainer being a holding point doesn't really make much of a difference. The reason it's done that way is to limit the amount of things that people can sell, and sell upgrades that allow you to be able to sell more things at once. I don't have a problem with that, but that's clearly the reason why you need to use retainers to sell things.
Most Mmos AH all work screwing up a AH is hilarious
In BDO you have to manually accept it in the auction house too.
they can't do that since everything is client-side
They Build an mmo with 14! More or less Independent Economys and the worst auction house for selling stuff i have seen in my life. i mean Amazon surely has no experience in programming/designing a good Shop Site. How do you expect them to Store your Gold while you are offline.
If only Amazon had access to industry leading server technology or had any experience running a marketplace 😔
Truly this is an Alpha for the ages. I'm surprised Amazon doesn't have a QA team?
Really a deflationary economy.
I'm still having fun though. It's like a survival game against the devs.
They have everything a game devs team would wish for and I bet the devs are very competent. You know what also they have? Corporate upper management, fixated on making profit and stonks going up, they are the root of all problems.
a game where you play against the devs would be pretty fun
The thing is that an Q&A team isnt even the full issue there.
The devs doing this kind of stuff are just missing the logic somehow... somehow someone thought that fixing it like this was a good idea and certainly wouldnt affect anything else.
Its 100% 101 gamedesign that you should ALWAYS assume something you change affects the rest of your game in some way and you need to make sure you know exactly what. If you are 18 years old and start any gamedesign course, within a year you will double/triple check any results coming out of a testing client even when unrelated to the aspect you are trying to fix before even getting it slightly closer to any production.
And this is why New World will never be a good MMO unless they massively revamp the entire developer team, because people with these kind of thinking errors are either fresh out of school .. or they are missing the mindset to make something more than mediocrity :D
@@Timeraider developer only follows the upper management we don't know what is happening behind the scenes. Maybe the developers has the solution but was limited or prevented by something.
It is like putting a patch over a single hole in a leaking container. Once you put it on the pressure inside gets just a little stronger and new holes show up. Putting the patch over one hole didn't solve anything, if many more pop up out of the wood work. This is also why if a dam has a hole in it, they don't just patch up the hole, they undergo a massive overhauling repair of the dam.
What's "pop up out of the wood work" means?
They should have used flex tape lol
@@donloder1
As far as i know hunting language:
For scaring small animals and critter so they flee from you out of their hiding holes, the aformentioned woodwork between treeroots and smaller plants like shrubs or bushes.
It is used in the context that applying force to something reveals all the other things that are near it like scaring one rabbit to catch while scaring all others in 300 feet radius around you too.
2 thinks fixed, and only 3 things broken ... that still counts as success .
Bad analogy.
It’s more like a container having a hole in it, and just painting over the whole thing.
I don't even play New World and I'm loving your coverage of this as it unfolds
I've been lately trying to find some good tutorials on how to code proper real time synchronization between server and client in multiplayer game, because that is a topic I had never any dealings with and have problem understanding. Turns out - i could have instead get a job at New World development studio and code their network code.
They found the cause of the the trading post bug and working on a fix right now. They also said all the lost gold will be given to the player.
There's a reason, in Guild Wars 2, I have to manually pick up my gold from the black lion trader.
Don't even mess with my character server side while I'm offline.
Just put all the pending changes into the mail and other such places and let me deal with it later.
Yeah I was going to say didnt WoW figure this out like 15 years ago by just mailing you the gold?
It is interesting how other MMO's handle auction house (the type of system) payouts. In GW2 you have to pick it up from the trader, in WoW, LotRO you get it mailed to you, in FFXIV it is stored with the retainer (an NPC that is your bank and marketboard). Common aspect is that it is essentially (very broad strokes here) stored server side and the change shows up when the player requests to retrieve the gold to their account.
Praise Joko!
Even browser based mmo's that I played back in the day had this figured out lol.
@@plantex625 I think WoW did it this way so there is more of a paper trail on the server side for GMs to both follow and be able to reverse if needed.
1:40 This isn't a bug, Josh. It's a radical new concept for a gold sink.
You just can't see the brilliance and bravery to take bold new steps in the mmo landscape.
/s
Lol
Between this, WoW, and pretty much every kickstarter MMO; the MMO space is turning to an absolute minefield of hilarity. Whether its bad programming, corporate/con artist greed, or fanbois simping for whatever game they call daddy, there's bound to be something to tickle your fancy!
Zenimax: "Our game is buggy AF but it just works!"
Amazon: "Hold my giant hammer!"
This is the best "but wait, there's more" i've ever seen
Aren’t cheats going to absolutely brutalize this kind of set up once they start rolling in? I’ve never heard of any MMO giving even a fraction of this power to the client
If you can get pass the filters sure
They already are. People have cheats where they can make players take out-of-bounds damage. This has been used against people choosing not to flag for PvP. ESP and aimbot have been there since day one.
Yes. Since in New World the client tells the server what items it has and what actions that should be sent to other clients, it means that the moment you can find out how to bypass whatever anti-cheat the client has, you can start doing all kinds of crazy things. Give yourself infinite gold, give yourself god armors, kill everyone with a click and so on.
Normal game development tactic for an online game is "Server tells client what to do" and "Client asks if it can do this and server figures out if it can or should".
Amazon's game development tactic for an online game seems to be "Just do whatever, as long as we can save money on server costs".
@@Gaemfreak so has speed hacks, I remember a day 1 clip of it
@@Clawthorne Thats wrong you cant simply edit your gold Clientside you have to find some sort of exploit and abuse it
easiest way would be via packet editing
I feel like new world is just going for the "completely kill an mmo any % speedrun world champ" title now.
Wildstar will be hard to beat
@VaderxG Just wait for Meta Gaming Studio next
Np, there's no end game, it will kill itself anyway
@VaderxG Anthem was BioWare. Y'know, the guys behind the colossal fuckup that was Mass Effect 3, the nonsensical mess that was Dragon Age: Inquisition, and the hilariously broken and unfinished Mass Effect Andromeda.
People shouldn't have to pay real money and devote real time for a game that has been half assed when the means to fix it are clearly available just require more time and money which studios aren't willing to spend because they're comfortable letting a game sell on marketing hype. When you do the carrot and stick approach you still have to make them run before you give them the carrot.
Greatest cloud server provider in the world.
It's a good thing their customers write the code that runs on those servers.
This is a wonderful example of "eventual inconsistency"
Server: "Grats, you made a sale."
Client: "Not here, please leave money in mailbox."
Server: "Send to /DevNull? You got it boss!"
Server: "I'm pretty sure I already sent it to you, I'm not sending it again, you're trying to cheat me!"
Client: "I was offline?"
Seriously though. I know next to nothing about the game. Does the money go straight to your purse or does the game have an in-game mail system like... every other MMO? WoW, GW2 and TESO have it.
@@HeresorLegacy thats the issue here it doesnt lol thats y everyone so salty, like how many mmos have been released before this one and they cant do some homework on basic mmo systems that work well in other games ?? almost like none of the devs are gamers lmao
@@ShiftyonKeys More like none of the devs know shit about making mmos and are just learning with new world lol
They also went through devs monthly so having one consistent train of thought would be hard for them.
Welcome to programming, where fixing a bug just creates ten more :D
not if you know what youre doing.
@@jimmythecrow Kinda. Hard to do if its intertwined with a lot of things at once or is not very neat/intuitive.
@@jimmythecrow Not always, knowing what you're doing just make you know how to fix the bug
"One broken line of code, just one line of code, pick it up shift it around, ninety-nine extra bugs in the code!"
Got to love programming :D
"Scroll of truth, what is your wisdom?" - "Your code works and you have no idea why." -- "Useless... NYEH!!!"
Welcome to bad programming**
The software company where I work, I've started calling situations like this "Murphy's Hydra". When you fix a bug, only to create 5 more bugs in it's stead.
Ah, yes. Amazon continues their elegant problem solving by handing a blind man a sledge hammer and just says start swinging.
This has got to be the most fun I have ever had watching a trainwreck. Amazon has still not convinced me that they can make a good game.
Thank god they cancelled LotR mmo. That game deserves professionals.
@@jesperjensen7567 I was quite sad that they canceled it, but seeing ur comment actually made me happy, it would be an offense to LotR fans.
@@krepin9395 No kidding. Seems like Tolken bent God's ear on it and he decided to be merciful.
@@jesperjensen7567 yeah, i am grateful for that too 😁
The fact that this problem even exists makes me very, very worried about the quality and experience of the software architects employed by Amazon studios. This kind of problem is such glaringly obvious that it should never have been a problem. Gold and item transactions are not high throughput real-time data, it should never been processed client side.
I suspect this will lead to more gold and item duplication bugs once somebody figures the protocol.
Honestly it sounds like they got entry level guys to do it, i'm actively learning all this IT stuff right now and it's just glaringly simple stuff.
The whole state of the game makes me question this... Every time they try to fix something, they either don't actually fix it or they introduce a new issue as a result of some hackjob they tried out of desperation.
There already has been a new gold dupe glitch today.
If you put gold in the guild treasury at the same time someone withdraws gold then the gold gets duped. The funny thing is this bug got "fixed" during beta but apparently came back today.
Apply there and take their jobs.
Gold being client side is the mother of all red flag.
I don't even know what to say to that. Ballistic calculation and combat damage being client side is one thing, but gold and item??? Are you begging players to crack open your client and give themselves max value of everything? Because they will.
This is currently my favorite new mini series.
Hey Josh! I really appreciate the videos you do, I really like that you're bringing these to light and hopefully Amazon take notice of you. The other major one going around is crouching over and over again in a healing circle heals you super quick, if you're looking to do more videos on this kinda stuff.
This is why most MMOs have a mailing system... Fucking hell..
No, this has nothing to do with a mailing system.
How do they not have a way to check if a player is properly "logged in?" This is AGGRESSIVELY client authoritative to the point the client is needed to determine how the servers work. Its not just client authoritative, its client DEPENDENT.
which is hilarious, because it is supposed to be the other way around, it is the first thing you are taught in software engineering if you are studying about client-server relationships.
@@Professor.Farnsworth Doesnt mean it's client authoritative or "dependent". Could just be the auction house feature got broken so the offline character handling got broken with this patch. Not necessary because of this bug fix. MMO Servers dont update values "live" in the database, they save in intervals. So if the char is online, you write in the current cached char values. If the char is offline, you store it in a seperate information container. The 2nd part seems to be broken, it's not necessary related with the client being auhoritative or "dependent". It's probably just the data caching for offline client that's broken, not because the client is offline. If it makes sense what i'm trying to say.
those devs were working on mobile games for apple store. this kind of authoritative is ok for that platform. so they just did like they used to
I guess they forgot to add a try catch statement :D
Bro why are you acting like you know a single thing about coding? The devs have already confirmed only a portion is client side and that they inherited it the engine like this and they said they will fix it.
perfect frame to stop it on with jackson eating popcorn haha
Here is what you do Amazon: Go the FF14 route. Chuck your game in the bin, Hire developers with MMO experience, then completely remake the game. Oh and don't forget to appologize profusely to all the people who's time and money you wasted playing this dumpter fire.
I cant believe Amazon and Bethesda are sharing the fo76 dev team.
This is giving me Fallout 76 flashbacks. There was a time when not a single week came by without at least one piece of news about an epic fail regarding that game.
Modern AAA industry for you. Suits doing software art industry. Double damage.
This is when you try to rush out game with unpolished /unfinished product.
Old games took their time to build up foundation and playtest, new game follow a release schedule and forced out unfinished product for monetary reason.
Difference being there are thousands of people rushing to defend Amazon whereas FO76 was almost universally hated
Welcome to modern AAA gaming
@@mic01851165 some of those new games also take more then a decade and still come out like crap. Cyberpuke 2077 for example.
That Michael Jackson eating popcorn gif at 4:50 is exactly is what I'm feeling right now watching all the new world issues.
Have they hired some original Division devs? Because this reminds me of the early Division, where you could edit your stats in a simple text file. :-) That game was a mess at start back then, but got better eventually.
This title basically reminds me of that one old vine video where someone squashed a bug and then more bugs appeared from the dead bug.
It bugs me...
That's to be expected when you're MMORPG is built with the client telling the server who's boss. 😂 I guess all those Amazon dollars couldn't purchase a MMO Dev from the last 25 so years.
reminds me of the "You Are an Idiot" malware bait. if you try co close one by one, you just open 5 more.
While that sounds plausible, I hope that wasn't their fix and the reason for the AH bug lies elsewhere, because that would mean that your gold is only tabulated on your local client, which would be the most hillarious and easily exploitable implementation for such a thing. That is the kind of character data that shouldn't even leave the server with the exception of read requests to show your current gold level.
Are you really expecting something different? If they can create for MMO with PVP client-authoritative communication... They can for sure store player gold on client side...
Yeah, tbh if you lose gold this way, just set your gold to be the amount it should be at manually. I mean these systems are going to be bugged and hacked sooo hard.
Do you think that they have gold server side after knowing that essential gameplay things like damage and player position in the world is being handled client side? I wouldn't be surprised if the gold total is stored locally as well :D
I agree. If this is in fact the way it works, there won't be a need for gold duping because people will just be able to modify their gold value in their client. So either this is not the way it works, or the level of sheer incompetence by AGS is monumental.
Sir, how do you think ppl were dupping gold days ago?
All of these bugs are pretty horrific for an MMO. I have seen similar issues, perhaps with different root causes, over more than one game over. I've seen this happen on WoW more than once where gold/items get lost to the void for whatever reason. It either resulted in a total server rollback, which I haven't seen a game have to do in years and years, or they somehow managed to get the items/gold to players. I imagine if there is a record of the transaction in the database that it can be corrected, hopefully with some automation on their end.
These are basic database programming issues, it's not something new and incomprehensible and very hard to fix. This is to show how bad the developing and maintenance team at Amazon Games is. Lineage 2, an almost 20 year old mmo, had a feature implemented in their 3rd yearly chronicle (basically a WoW expansion) that let you set up shop, close your client and your character remained in game, selling your stuff and keeping the money, that you received when you logged back into the game. And this was added probably 15 years ago. Imagine the brainlets at Amazon Games, they would think this is some kind of incredible innovation that greatly exceeds their programming skills and networking management!
NW : Finaly fixed the bugs :)
Josh Strife : You think you have already fixed all your bugs? , Okay , fine. I´m show you that is not .
why does it feel like these programmers have never even PLAYED an online videogame, let alone worked on one?
How does such a massive, rich company possibly end up with such an incompetent games division as Amazon's???
Money. They didn't want to pay the money for industry veterans who know what they are doing. Same goes for the managers. From what I heard the managers have no experience making games, they are sales guys or something. And this is the result. "You get what you pay for." Has never been more true.
Game dev is surprisingly (to non programmers) hard.
you would be surprised at the people they contacted for the teams of devs they we're assembling. You worked 15years in a different field? No matter, we need the people, come on down. You haven't worked in a gaming field ,no matter you'll learn fast, come on down. Pair it with the fact that they are in one of the hardest genres to actually get it right, equals what we have in NW. I have several colleagues who got poached for the jobs, but have never even tried to do simple loops :D
This is partly a management issue of wanting to release everything fast. Your code is not gonna be flawless on the first try, but that's why you have testing and QA before releasing it onto production, a step this game seems to have skipped.
@@juances upon dedicating 150hours i can safely say that there we're more standart procedures that we're avoided/overlooked and yes sometimes management is at fault, but imho(and experience) when there's a simple lack of communication between departments about goals, deadlines, expectations it never fair well in the long run. And to be brutally honest I've had a pleasure of working in a better managed and communicated teams in corps that dont have 10% of what they have.
I keep playing FFXIV and Warframe while "Rome burns" in pretty much every other MMO'ish title.
Warframe isn't really in a good way either, but most of its issues aren't anywhere near as recent or game breaking.
GW2 is where it's at
@@kamanira we'll see with next update.
@@kamanira Warframe has no real pacing, but for the time i've been playing it isn't actively trying to destroy itself. :)
didnt warframe sell out to tencent? its only a matter of time
Callum Upton's Dreamworld updates: finally, a worthy opponent!
Our battle shall be legendary!
It's pretty obvious to send the stored data after a client is refocused with a delay that is just a longer than the longest immunity frame.
Just goes to show, being grossly rich with an unlimited amount of funds is NOT a replacement for know-how and talent.
Passion and creativity trump money and greed every time
@@XxWolfxWaRioRxX That and the ability to match those to your current resources. You gotta call it at some point.
This is why I'm way more willing to buy an indie game than a AAA game.
Money can attract competent developers and people who have worked in the games industry, but Amazon still consistently fails. My assumption is that their problem is somewhere in their leadership structure where people are making decisions for things they don't understand.
There's a good game in New World, but it's marred by so many odd bugs and mistakes. I think they'll iron it out in time, though.
Yes, but also Amazon Game Studios don't have unlimited funds.
In order to get funds, they will have to go through a substantial amount of bureaucracy, like every Amazon related entity (similar to other big companies). Worse for them is, that they don't even have a lot of leverage in negotiations. New Worlds is their first major success, many projects before that were scrapped.
As a web-dev, I can't understand how and why would they store any vital information client-side. Client-side should be just for displaying the state and collect the inputs.
Same, as someone who've been working in the industry for close to 10 years now, I couldn't even relate to how is this even possible, it's so mind boggingly stupid that it didn't compute in my brain. Like, keeping everything server side from data to processes as much as technically possible is the very first thing that any developers learn on their literal first week of doing socket programming. Heck, most modern language APIs and frameworks won't even allow you to code this heavy on the client side in the first place, how's this even possible I don't understand.
Well now you can just crouch in a healing circle and become invincible...
My reaction thru the entire video is exactly that MJ popcorn meme at 4:53 XD
This whole situation seems like a good reason to switch the roles of client and server TO THE SAME DAMN THING EVERYONE ELSE DOES.
Come now, it's not you can expect someone to go to all the trouble of googling "best practices" while designing their game or something. That's like a whole 14 extra keystrokes.
The issue is that switching them is not an easy process and would require a LOT of work to change. I'm not saying it is completely impossible but it would be a version 2.0 sort of change at the very least. And a 2.0 update to fix bugs is a big ask for a project of this scope.
Yeah because it's just that easy right? Go help them out if it's so simple for you
You can't just change something so fundamental after release. Most of the game is probably built around how it works now, so they'd have to refactor everything. It could be done, but it would be like making a whole new re-release/game/expansion pack, etc. My guess is they will just keep throwing ineffective bandaids at the problem and the game will be shut down within a year or two.
@@christianstonecipher1547
i'd seize and die if I had to do that ngl
that sounds so god awful
The AH glitch is a non issue cause you can just dupe the gold you lost anyway :^)
Someone needs to bring some light on how to do it, maybe that will force AGS to take action immediately
I mean... you're not wrong xD
There's trying to fix a missing limb by using bandaids and then there's trying to fix a missing leg by ripping the arm off and taping it to where the leg should be
I'm convinced they have hired the Dreamworld developers.
"Why did Amazon hire people who would make a client side monstrosity for an MMO?" Same reason they machine translated all of the Amazon Sweden site at launch that turned out to have horrific errors all over the place. They don't care about quality control or quality assurance, they just want the increased revenue. That is the main, primary answer: they just don't care about quality. They want money, plain and simple, and they will cut as many corners as they can to get it.
Now, to be perfectly clear, I'm not hating on the devs themselves - I'm pretty sure Amazon did this whole project dirty by hiring people who weren't experienced in the field at all, who just wanted a stable income, and throwing them all in a room telling them to make a really good MMO. That's why the game feels so cookie cutter, why it's got that level of polish and stability on the surface but underneath it's just such a rotten mess. You've got a bunch of rookies trying to make a grab bag of what works in an MMO and assembling it in too little time. There's some stuff in New World that looks really cool, but I really do think the devs were kneecapped by Amazon overhead. They just don't have enough experience.
I don't think they'll do an ARR for New World either. Most likely it'll suffer death by a thousand patches, then shut down. ARR and No Man's Sky are very unique cases that aren't easy to replicate because they require a company to care deeply about both the project and their reputation. Amazon clearly doesn't care about either, not right now.
They got their box sales and some MTX and the biggest spike most any game gets (release). Its beyond "refund" windows in most cases.
Its literally just a question of PR for their game studio now, they probably already made their money back and then some.
Josh's other vidz have made it pretty clear there's really not a lot of financial incentive for companies to design and maintain what most gamers would consider 'quality' MMO's. "Golden Age" is likely long behind us :(
Because it reduces lag, there is a reason we dont have any AAA title mmo with full open world mechanichs nowadays. WoW absolutely goes insane with mroe than 45 people in a zone casting stuff. Between GW2, WoW, ESO, FFXIV, NW is the only open world one where everyzone isnt fully instanced.
@@rickroll9705 wasn't EQOA (Everquest on PS2) fully open-world? It's been almost a decade since it was shut down, but I can't remember a single instanced dungeon...and those SOE devs had a shoestring budget
Having worked as an Amazon dev in a different department, I can confirm your guesses about how they do things. They hire a bunch of devs who may or may not have any experience in the subfield they're going to be working on, then force them to develop stuff in less time than it would ever reasonably take. They do have QA teams as well, but those get pushed _really_ hard to allow things to go out on time, and you'll frequently hear project managers say that critically severe bugs are going to be a "fast follow" fix. Now, fast follow is supposed to mean "literally the first thing we do after launch is fix this and it goes out in the first update," but what actually happens is that it gets kicked further and further down the road as more and more new feature work gets prioritized over fixing any of the broken stuff. Many bugs do get fixed eventually, but in the 6 years I was there, in just projects I worked on I saw no less than 5 "we should never ship the product while it has this" bugs go out to production per year.
While all these major game breaking bugs are around, there are also 'lower priority' bugs that still are a pain in the ass...
Like bosses that despawn, and quests that spawn 10x the normal amount of enemies for you kill to progress.
I have been trying to do the 'weapon level 20' Greathammer quest that will reward me with a 580 GS hammer for the past 3 weeks, and the boss only spawns once after maintenance and then despawns forever.
All of this demotivates me to play right now because a lot of content is locked behind bugs.
Apropos of nothing, but The Ascent had a similar issue for a while. You intimate a boss fight... and the boss spawns in triplicate, then kills you. Restart, now there's only one boss. Something to do with cutscene critters not being properly removed or some such.
That's funny because there was also a hammer bug in Vanilla Warcraft that was the same. Daphne Stillwell was an NPC who was part of Verigan's Fist (~Level 18 2-handed Mace Paladin quest) that you needed to protect from Defias NPCs. Well, if she died, she wouldn't respawn until a server restart.
Are you sure? I've never encounter this bug before nor has any of my friends. Also, no level 20 weapon rewards you a 580GS. I'm level 31 and the loot is around 350GS.
Content being locked behind bugs, you say? Sounds like something blizzard could get on board with, we'll call it bug gating
@@ireplytostupidpeople4750 Once you reach a certain point of the game, (I think you need to reach level 60 first, dont remember when I unlocked mine) You unlock new quests for all the weapons you have mastered! (reached lvl 20 with) you will go all over the map to pretty much every elite zone on the map, (I think its 5 stages per weapon) and kill an X amount of elites and sometimes open chests/kill a named enemy at that area to proceed. Once you’re done you will complete the quest and recieve that weapon with 580GS.
NOTE: it does not increase or do anything to your watermark when getting your hands on the weapon.
And this was going to be the killer?!
Having played around with Lumberyard myself, it has massive foundational issues that simply aren't suited for an online multiplayer game (besides being an extremely cumbersome engine to work with). I knew NW was going to be a shitshow because of this, but seeing just how little forethought Amazon put into adapting their own (modified Crytek) engine for an MMO is truly incredible. You'd think they would have consulted with the Star Citizen devs if they were struggling this much, since SC has extensively modified Lumberyard for their own purposes.
This is the best £35 that i never spent.
This should be stored in server side database regardless of a person being on line or not. It should only reflect this client side when you log on instead of it being sent and stored on client side.
I'm a beginner web dev but even i have a better idea of how these stuff should work than Amazon. It's just mindblowing man idk. Simply follow the "never trust client" rule and always store important data like, fcking gold and items on database.
Like server should not even send the gold to you when you are online, it should add the gold to your character's goldAmount in database. And just get that value from database every time you log in. This is a disaster oh man, so fun to watch tho i love it.
It is stored server side, otherwise someone would have been a millionair on day one. I bet you everyone will have their gold back soon.
Great video! Super articulate and informative! I have a couple persistent glitches happening to me, and yeah I can’t even access the trading post it essentially just kicks me out, acting as if I pressed ESC right before I sell, buy, craft, or manipulate an item🥺
Love the videos, great description of the issue and how it carries over to the auction house.
Don’t love that he’s abstained from mentioning AGS’ response to the issue- but that may have come after the video was being processed/uploaded.
Benefit of the doubt.
This is the most predatory way of keeping people logged in. Good job, Amazon
/s
I believe you don't need the "/s", because people can already see the incongruity between calling Amazon predatory and praising them for their service. Although I won't be surprised if some people cannot tell.
I am pretty sure they are saving auctions to a database somehow, and the database does not care whether someone is online or offline, it is persistent. Saving auctions in memory on the server is extremely error prone, e.g. auctions would get lost on server restart. I think the auction house bug is unrelated to the invulnerability bug.
But this imho just shows that the save local files are client sided, which means everything work through you might call it middle man, and that middle part is quite easily modded
Yeah I don't think Josh's explanation isn't quite what happens here. Player movement and combat, sure, that can be reasonably done clientside (of course, it's not a good idea as was shown with the invulnerability bug...), and in fact is the easier thing to do, Minecraft does it too, and iirc had a very similar bug where you could make yourself invulnerable by stopping the client from sending network packets, and definitely had a bug where you could stay in the air indefinitely by doing that.
However I don't think that the same thing goes for transactions, for that to work they would actually have to have an actual transaction queue for each client and then store the amount of money purely clientside, only having the client sync up the money on each reconnect with the queue the server dumps on the client, which is a much more convoluted and completely broken (what happens if the player logs in from multiple PCs?) way of storing inventory data. The more reasonable and straight forward way here is to store the money on the server, immediately apply any incoming transactions to that, and then send the new amount of money to the client if it is connected.
I also don't think the two issues are connected (or at least loosely if anything), only plausible thing I can think of right now is they added a bunch of checks in a lot of places to only perform an action when the player is online and this one was added by mistake and nobody caught it.
@@2xsaiko Well, you are assuming more than Josh. Occam's razor favor: players not getting the money because the server is sending the gold and client is simply offline. But it should be tested.
If it works like Josh says, if it's related to the invulnerability bug, then it happen if you freeze the client too, and if you have simply lag. Yup. Like if your internet drops the moment the server sends money, you would not receive it.
It is quite a huge flaw nonetheless. One of many that stem off the fundamental flaws in the game.
It may be related to the efforts they are doing to fix server transfers.
Any kind of request that is initiated by a player should be verified by the server, and the server should then have final authority.
How does this even happen? For an auction house sale, all the data required can be gathered server side, and the client should never be required to be logged in for them to have an action applied to them,
especially an auction house sale.
If an item is bought, the player should send a request to the server to purchase it. The server should then do some form of check to make sure you have the money, the item is available, and if so, they can at that point edit the player server side and increase their gold in the database. Nothing client side is required here other than the action to initialise the purchase and perhaps some UI updates to indicate the player has received an item/gold clientside for both players if they're online. These are just simple events telling each client that "Hey, you've received so and so."
It's baffling. I'm assuming they've somehow developed terrible distributed server code that is getting all messed up somewhere.
yeah i cant even see how they did that
they probably send the items to update the data on the client, and when the client doesnt respond (because your ass is offline) the requests just get voided.
thats all i can think about.
They finally implemented a gold sink to help with the previous gold duplication glitch economic impact.
Every piece of news I hear about this game makes me go "How the hell does the most valuable company in the world fail to run one single game worth any level of quality?"
Like come on, this company is making the first trillionaire, they can't have moderators, server-side authority, or any kind of quality focus?
no. that requires Money. which the owner of the company wants to keep
@@AgentPedestrian that's a fair point.
The simple answer is; They wanted to make a game. Not because they had a cool idea or a vision. They looked at WoW and FFXIV and went "We want big game money too".
At the same time they didn't want to spend money on making the game, so they took a lot of shortcuts and focused on it looking good rather than working good.
And now here we are. With a game that looks amazing, but is a broken mess with a rotten foundation. And Amazon sitting there refusing refunds.
@@AgentPedestrian you don't even know who owns amazon.
@@Clawthorne but MMOs don't actually make a lot of money. Even wow doesn't. If they wanted to make a game for a quick buck, they'd have made a shooter with a micro transaction store and called it a day. Even from the greed standpoint it doesn't make sense because even WOW hasn't ever breached top profits for gaming.
Dupes and invul is NOT FIXED, only normies dragging windows got locked out
Normies 😂
How could it? They did not fix the root cause of why all of these issues are happening, which is a deep architectural issue because it’s probably an inexperienced dev team. Trying to save on network load by moving more computation to the client without understanding the consequences. Ideally, the server should tell you everything, and all the client sends to the server is user actions. That obviously requires a lot of computation and data transmission from and to the server. Somewhere in their optimization, they’ve gone a bit too far and now they are paying the price. The vulnerability is there, and any knowledgeable person will figure out ways to exploit the system. They are just preventing the average player from doing these things “accidentally”.
How do you do those things then?
If the normies and people without special programms are no longer able to do it, it should be way less common and make the cheater hunt way easier for the devs, right?
@@telmoxt as he said all things should be prosssed server side. Your client only gets info on all the critical things like gold hp stats... there is no pint in time where the client should hold and peosses those things. Some things for simplicity shpuld be client side like if the caracter is in range and so on. but even then if the interaction is startet there should be a handshake between client and server to confirm this is valid action. Character movement and player input gets done locally then if a hit localy was detectet the server should do damage and so on. SERVER SHOULD have authority and if possible validate things done on client
I'm not convinced that "Gold" is client authoritative. When developers make "Client-Authoritative" logic it's often because it is easier to implement. Storing gold information on the client feels more difficult to implement and maintain. The only "Gold Duping" exploit I've heard had to do with Server Transfers causing a 1-way Gold increase during trading.
I get where you are going with this, but I don't know if we have good proof showing that the fix to invulnerability and the AH fix are related.
I knew I smelled a dumpster fire waiting to happen with these new devs and massive game undertaking.
Glad I quit 2 weeks ago with the war issues after hitting 60
I haven't had such spiteful satisfaction in watching a game struggle this much since WoW.
New World making WoW look like goty smh
The funny part is
As shit as WoW can be sometimes, and as acummy as actiblizz are
90% of the time WoW at least FUNCTIONS AS INTENDED, and exploits are delt with usually within 48 hours of discovery with 24-72 hour bans dished out to exploiters
@@V2ULTRAKill As much as I'd hate to admit it but you are right, credit where credit is due. WoW and Blizzard may be dead to me but that is one of the few things they do correctly.
@@V2ULTRAKill I don't agree, there are tons of exploits, that are in game for years. There are ways to create your own legion and decimate literally everything in open world. Blizz worked out only bugs and exploits, that were touching world first race or literally made the game unplayable.
Schadenfreude is a beautiful and weird thing.
If this theory is right, and it could be, they may have no way of knowing who was and wasn't online when they sent the gold. It also means a lot of things are handled client side that never should be.
I imagine that at that point they'd just have to send everyone their shit anyways, even if it means they receive it twice.
Some will get an unfair advantage, sure, but Amazon really has to save face here
This is my favorite new series on your channel.
I feel that if damage requests are lost on the way to your computer, that could lead to some invulnerability. If they would want to move a lot of stuff to server side, and would just synchronize the data with the client and build a secure and stable system, that would force them to reengineer huge parts of the game, and would have to go beyound simple bugfixes. Any client side calculation is vulnerable to manipulation. Also trying to implement multiple layers of anticheat and antitamper solutions to protect the game from manipulation would cause a huge performance hit.
This game is infamous for killing GPUs. Its developers seemingly ignored quite a few industry best practices and the limitations of user hardware. Client side calculations and accepting too much data from the clients are bad, because clients usually lack ECC memory so data corruption can happen on client side AND over the network. Dealing with items, gold, etc. lost to these errors can be a nightmare to the support staff and not handling bugs can be a PR nightmare for the game.
Bloody hell, Amazon is the best comedy show on the internet right now! I just hope they renew it for next season.
It's really stunning how incapable the developers of New World are. Being a programmer myself, this is just beyond belief.
Any tips for someone who wants to learn?
@@calmexit6483 Delete System32, it slows your computer down
@@calmexit6483 find a language you want to learn, or one that's classed as 'easy'. read / watch beginner tutorials and write code along with them.
think of something you think you might be able to make - try to make it.
if you have to google how to do things, don't just copy/paste code - understand how it works.
rinse & repeat.
being a programmer myself, i'm surprised you're attributing it to the programmers vs the project leads, qa, and most importantly, management.
if you never had to work on or ship something, knowing there are issues, but people higher than you have decided its an "acceptable risk" and can be fixed "later", then please let me know when your company is hiring
@@opiumskittles Of course it's the people higher up that fucked this up to a degree where IT CAN'T be fixed.
Amazon Game Studios Manager to Papa Big Cheese: "Software architecture is... like... hard, Mr. Beezoos."
Tfw Amazon pays their devs just as much their werehouse workers
Their update says they’re going to have all the gold suspended in the void right now paid out successfully to sellers when the new fix goes live
I mean what else should they say? Say they made a mistake? No no, they say they will pay it out but if it really happens is another story.
Trusting what AGS says or writes in an update? Sure lets all do that. They have a perfect track record so lets just do it guys, cmon guys. This will end on a good note for sure.
I hope you don't believe that
@@LunaPPK This is way too big of an exploit and so they NEED to appease the community if they still want players playing the game.
Because they have to say that. Whether it actually happens will be the next outrage.
Why not just send the request to a server to process like any other MMORPG so when you log in, all of the processing has already been completed. New world being client-authoritative is definitely going to cause issues for years to come.
or send the money to the character's mailbox or something?
Because it costs money. I'd be shocked to find out there was any greater reason. It's more stuff to store, more stuff to process, means more money paid for the extra hardware to do that - and their hardware already seems underpowered relative to the population. I'm not defending the company, mind you, just speculating on the reason. The fully server-side model of the 2000s is exceptionally expensive on a larger scale.
@@Malidictus All of that information is ultimately processed and stored exactly that way anyway. If I install the game on a new machine and login (which I happed to recently do), all of my stuff is still there because the server ultimately HAS to store it. In this case it would seem that the server sends some kind of client message about the gold, then stores it once that message is acknowledged. No acknowledgment, no store. This is a design mistake.
@@rnickerson43 Posted this elsewhere, but - that sounds closer to a Steam Cloud service. That is to say, your save file is stored online, but downloaded and to your client and then loaded locally. Josh had a point, in that market requests are likely buffered and then sent to you the first time you log in, processing them at that point.
I obviously don't know for sure, but it doesn't sound like New World actually uses the save file they have server-side directly. If they did, then YOUR client wouldn't need to be online for transactions to happen. The server should be able to process the transaction and update your save file without your client's intervention. That that intervention exists suggests that it's necessary in some fashion.
Dont worry, it wont be an issue for years to come.
NW is probably dead by mid 2022.
I appreciate you waiting a moment on the MJ popcorn eating gif
The man, the myth, the legend JOSH STRIFE HAYES. There are more bugs out there with the latest patch. With that said, I am waiting on your next video!
If this keeps up nerdSlayer will be creating the episode Death of a Game: New World before the end of the Year.
Amazon must have got their game devs the same way they get their warehouse staff. Paying peanuts and getting monkeys with pee bottles.
Oh come on their warehouse staff is better than that.
Person: *Buys the item*
Seller: "You have ruined me."
*NEW WORLD! PLAY IT NOW!*
Also buy orders disappear if they complete while offline
Reminds me of a plumber fixing the sink while the ceiling is leaking.
Thank you for your coverage and insight on the client server request. Yes I agree with you I want this game to succeed and its content like yours that's really helpful for the developers!
I'm curious.
What happens if you create your character on one computer, then log in on a different computer.
Is your character there?
(A similarly equivalent test would be uninstalling game and any cache files, then reinstalling and seeing what happens)
I ask because this gold thing makes it seem like character data is local, rather than server side...
Its all sent back server side eventually but the client has way too much authority
a good question, it might be worth trying it out. If they really are slacking like that it's gonna be a quick new years for the new world :D
@@JoshStrifeHayes Question is - is the host-side save file the one used, or does that work more like a cloud save? That is to say, does your character load off the host-side save file, or does that save file first have to be downloaded, then loaded off the local copy? Because if it's the latter, you can tinker with it.
Your char is saved on the server as far as I can tell. I had some computer issues and ended up logging into steam from my son's computer and my char was still there.
@@chalkymidnight it would have been very strange to not be the case.
But given the kinds of issues we're seeing here...
I saw this video pop up yesterday and I forgot. Thank the lords I remembered and decided to check it out today, at 7:30 am. Holy fuck.
I vibe with that michael jackson eating popcorn gif, that's how I feel about new world news.
I don't even play NW, but damn i'm enjoying following the amazing journey of Josh and the great big fix
Good content, keep it up. I'm still enjoying it... As an aging MMO enthusiast I've played many launches and grinded to be in the top 1-5%. That being said I have learned to enjoy the journey rather then the destination in MMO genre games for the simple fact: You will never beat the game until it "Dies". Thank you for your continued coverage of the game though! P.S. Another OSRS video soon?
I don't think the client updates are "Saved" until it's unfocused. The animations probably but not the actual damage. Damage doesn't need to be verified client side as it's part of the world state. The problem is that the client prior never updated a change in the vulnerability state as the animation wasn't completed on client side to update it server side. They probably just made the vulnerability not need to be updated by the client to "wear off" or tied to any animation client side.
World state is independent of the player and it persists. Same with the auction house. Auction house transactions are saved to the database and probably aren't "lost" but somehow via some condition being met or bad code. It could be that when online a transaction occurs -> this leads to the transaction on the database -> there may be code to notify and update the client of the transaction -> client is offline -> no notification sent (update is still made). What then should happen is you either queue this notification for next login and the sale should still update on the sellers balance as balance should also be server based.
I wonder if a person sold another while online with "lost" transactions - does the balance update with the ghost transactions included plus the new online transaction?
Keep the small update videos coming!