@@flawlessfatality8105 I'm on your side, but an ev does have revs, they just don't change because of shifting gears. Your point is still valid, there is no rev limiter, just a computer pretending you have less power than you should and stopping the car from accelerating properly because of fake gears and fake limits
People are really missing that Hyundai developed a complete experience. It’s not just the sound. It’s the tuning and integration between all the components at the right levels - sound as rev up/down/hit limits, feel, bit of kick on paddle shifts, and a precise timing at which they come together. To say it’s just the sounds is like saying the iPhone succeeded because they removed the keyboard and made the screen bigger.
Exactly Hyundai N Division having the Former Head of the BMW M Division definitely paid off, who is a real Enthusiast. That said "Opel" did a Manual EV but only as Concept. I've seen the Hyundai Ioniq 5 N a few Times on the Nürburgring now during "Touristenfahrten" (which is each Weekend where anyone from anywhere can drive whatever on the Nürburgring) Compared to all the Tesla Plaid Cars i've see on the Ring, the Hyundai definitely was way sportier and actually handled most of the challenging Parts of the Track much better Prost & Cheers from Berchtesgaden in the Bavarian Alps
I bought one... So at least there's one sold. It's awesome. Please folks, go test drive one and see for yourself. Feel the satisfying turn-in and weight transfer as you enter an off-ramp and marvel at your exit speed. The car is simply amazing and so fast in the real world. And it oozes personality, which isn't really something most EVs have. Hell, it's something most cars in general don't have. And when you need a normal car for life, it can do the TP run at Costco without batting an eye. Buy one and you won't be disappointed.
I also noticed that he keeps saying that it won't sell well. But I seen lots of comments in a few videos saying that they test drive it and immediately bought it. So I don't understand why he is so negative about it. Like if he doesn't want it to sell well just because is a "Hyundai"
I never understood that widespread "Subscription Service for Options is what BMW does" Myth. As far as i understood it, they did that exactly once in only one Country and now even there they stopped doing that
Hyundai has somewhat become the honda that we knew (minus the 100% reliability) that they make cars for the average person but still have time and passion for the car enthusiasts as well
They are better than honda. Just look at what honda has in its line up. Civic type R is probably the only and best vehicle they have out of everything they sell. While huyndai has ioniq 5N, elantra N, kona N, sonata Nline with 290 hp. Or you can switch to Kia and get k5 gt with 290 hp or EV6 GT with almost 600 hp. Their luxury devision Genesis is also making better cars than Acura. The G70 3.3T sport prestige is faster and rwd or awd while TLX Type S is awd but fwd biased. You can get G80 or G90 those are almost S class level luxury, SUV are also better and more luxurious. See honda doesn't offer anything like this at all. They only have 3 fun cars type R type S and tlx type s
And with cars switching to electric, reliability is going to be less and less of an actual concern for potential buyers. Hyundai /Kia makes garbage engines but if they just get rid of them all together….
I agree with Doug on the validity of bringing the enjoyment of gas powered cars with manuals to the EV world. However, I think there's a bigger picture that was not mentioned. I drove an automatic transmission for most of my life until recently when I decided to buy a "real" sports car with a 6 speed. With gas cars always had an idea of how it worked. But once I bought the car and learned how to shift it brought a whole new level of joy. I think with this Ioniq 5 manual mode it will connect all of the cars together. Imagine being a new/young driver and driving this car. His/her journey will lead him to enjoy other classic cars with gas and a stick shift. This is the new future if we want to connect automotive history, culture, motorsports, and fun. Otherwise, if we keep the numb "petal to the floor" EVs as they are, there will be a disconnect and the newer generation will never understand the thrill of controlling gears and power and driving enthusiasm.
@@somenygaardyes you would...or do you think the recording is going to be computer generated? Or let me guess, a recording of a V12 isn't a "real" V12? 😂
Yeah, I think it's stupid and I really don't see the point. High performance engines are not just about the sound, it's the whole package of how it shoves you with the revs, the vibrations and all that. Just having some sort of recording "matching". How hard you press the accelerator is just not the same.
Hyundai has really stepped up the game, and now they are trying to make EVs more fun. I still prefer cars with a traditional engine but this is still a great attempt by Hyundai to make an electric SUV that's actually fun to drive
I hope this catches on. I would also LOVE to see the system Toyota patented for simulating a manual transmission and clutch implemented. Imagine having normal EV mode, Paddle shift mode, and 6 speed manual mode where you get to use the clutch and shifter.... That would be so cool.
Drove a 5N there days ago and it was amazing. It’s the first really fun EV and gave me back hope for the automotive future. I’ve previously owned a Taycan and the Hyundai was a far superior experience.
@@TheDarkPacific I enjoyed the Taycan, but eventually sold it for a petrol Cayenne due to loss of SOH. 7% of its battery capacity vanished in 1,5yrs/52000km. Then the rear motor short circuited on New Year’s Day 2022 atop a mountain in a blizzard 1400km from home. That was the end of my EV voyage. Now a friend came over and said I needed to try this Hyundai and just WOW! Rev limiter, gear changes, popping of the exhaust on overruns, loss of power if getting too low rpm, a gnarly high strung petrol exhaust, Aventador like jerks in the drivetrain when changing gears! I don’t know what was the most fun to drive, the Hyundai or my GT4RS. For sure the Hyundai was the most impressive stand out experience of the two.
@@DioTheGreatOne well, sports car might be a stretch. It’s still an SUV or at least a cross over with a tad high seating position, but the smile it put on my face was priceless. Really, really impressive. I can see Porsche replicating this with a manual stick operating the gears instead of paddles. It’s bound to happen and that alone makes me a very happy man as I’ve since 2015 have dreaded the day new ICE cars would go off sale here in Norway. IF that happens, I’m now much more at ease with it as I see the future not so bleak for us petrol heads as I used to do.
I worked with an intern on an FPV RC car using an Xbox wheel and pedal controller, and he tried to integrate these kind of features into using the paddle shifters. We could immediately tell it increased the level of immersion with the FPV car, it just adds so much to the experience! (It was a proof of concept and never made it to a product phase...)
Btw, small comment since I saw your review of the ioniq 5 n, you mentioned only one engine sound and that is not true based on other reviews and what I saw on the dealership you have a couple of engine sounds. There was something else you highlighted as lacking but it was a setting within the menus to activate or change.
Coming from an Elantra N owner, it's awesome to see the positive impact that the Ioniq 5 N is having on the brand (and also that the simulated nShift is actually good!) That said, my only gripe is the claim that it won't sell. If it is a car that enthusiasts really stand by, why not encourage enthusiasts to buy it? If nobody does, what will be the incentive for auto makers to try new things like this in the future?
Apparently, I’m an outlier, but I don’t get it. I have an EV6 GT and I have all the sounds turned off. I love the silent rush of neck-snapping acceleration, it allows me to concentrate on the feeling alone without being distracted by anything else. Maybe if I drove one, I would change my mind, but I doubt it. Btw I have owned many perfomance cars over the years, both manual and DCT and have enjoyed all of them, but I have come to really appreciate the incredible efficiency and instant torque delivery of electric motors. Besides they do make a sound, it’s just not very loud. I also have a BMW i8 (which I love) and that car has been vilified for having fake sound even though it has a real engine and transmission. This one is all fake and people are gaga over it. Times have changed.
Technologically, the sound of an ICE is the sound of friction--the continuous wearing out of moving parts. Engineering-wise, it's a negative, but consumers have been fixated on it since the hot rod and muscle car eras. It feels regressive to use computer wizardry to include an ersatz version of this sound, rather than ask consumers to adjust to newer technology.
The people that you watch/"are gaga over it" are the "car" (or rather ICE) enthusiasts. They are coming out of their denial phase to see that EVs are not a fad, but a potential future so having EVs that can still offer some of that ICE experience in the future is something required for them. But the average person doesn't care about any of that. If they did, CVT cars wouldn't exist, yet Toyota are selling them in droves. If an EV would cost the same as an ICE equivalent, charge as fast and have comparable range while costing just 20% less to "refuel" with cheaper maintenance, most people would get the EV without blinking.
@@gabrielgingras814 No one is unaware of this. We are just aware of history. CVTs all used to avoid this crap, but then car companies started including it as an option, and now you literally cant buy a cvt that isnt gimping itself with the fake gear change bs. I dont want the same thing to happen to EVs. Im fine with an opt in option that gives me full power and utility of the vehicle, and allows those who are so inclined to have the silly gimmick modes. I am not fine at all with an opt out or mandatory system forcing this bs onto me.
In your review I think you missed the quirk that you can change the simulated sound between 3 presets. :( Makes me wonder if they could easily add more in the future!
@@wesd991 unique engine sounds would be unlikely to qualify for copyright protection. It would be far more likely to fall under the trade mark laws. Harley was attempting to trade mark their world famous vtwin engine sound for a while but eventually abandoned the idea before their trade mark paperwork could be decided on by the US patent office. I believe one of the German auto manufacturers has a trademark from the European Union on one or more of their engines. BMW or maybe Mercedes.
The ionic 5N reminds me of playing a simulation driving game. Engagement matters a lot, and changes the experience. This takes something like a racing simulator and bridges the gap to reality. Optimum Tech made a video recently about playing racing games in VR, this reminds me of that.
As someone used to driving stick, gears provide a very good reference for the speed to take corners. You don't need to look at your speed, just know that you are going to do it in 2nd or 3rd.
Doug gets it! I’ve owned RX7s, golf R’s, and many other sports cars. I pre-ordered the Ioniq 5N as soon as it dropped. Doug is 100% right here, and other RUclips reviewers that have had the privilege of test driving this car, especially on the track, can see why this is a game changer. I have never been more happier with a car purchase in my life, I can’t wait to see what other manufacturers bring to the table! Well done Hyundai N team.
The reviews have definitely been impressive. So many thought it would be horrible and some wanted it to be garbage. A lot of surprised folks. Seems like you will probably really enjoy it.
My grandfather bought one of those brand new Ford Model T’s back in 1909. He wanted metallic silver as his colour choice but they told him he could choose any colour as long as it was black. Instead, he opted for the only other extra available a “Clippity-Clop” soundtrack through the speakers. He missed that horse-drawn carriage so much …
I drove it and bought one immediately. I’ve been wanting an EV but they are not engaging. Not only did Hyundai make it engaging, but it has complete duality to it. It can be that silent eco box if you want and is fairly luxurious. I traded in a GLE 63s. This is faster and passengers say it’s roomier. This might be the biggest surprise hit I’ve seen. It’s not just good for a Hyundai, it’s an amazing car period.
I remember Farshad and @Salomondrin back in 2014 saying that new electric cars should have sounds and fun shifting modes. They even said companies like Ferrari would license sounds that EV cars could play on the outside and inside of the car
It would be tremendously cool to see a car from a brand like Porsche, Mercedes, Ferrari, etc. with this tech that lets you emulate the sights, sounds & gearing of historic models. Obviously this would never EVER be a substitute for the real thing, but even the idea of emulating something so simple as a Hyundai Elantra N here seems like a lot of fun.
They will absolutely be able to replicate fully manual transmission. Tons of racing simulators already to it perfectly. The only thing left is having that system in the car itself.
Is the EV revolution making Doug nostalgic? Tesla could add that feature with a sftw update, but why would you want to go slower? Fake noise, fake shifting -- like fake horse heads on early buggies?
I have to give Hyundai credit for their attention to enthusiast cars the last few years. I am not an EV fan. At all. But this is great to see. Now if they can make it a 6 speed manual with “clutch”, I’ll be a little more on board. Still not as good as burning dead dinosaurs
This comment is why Tesla M3P will sell and this will bomb. It's a car appealing to a crowd that will die on their hill rather that drive something without exhaust.
@@mrmiliman I just don’t like electric cars from an enthusiast standpoint. It’s not dying on a hill, for me at least. It’s just that I simply get no enjoyment out of it. Most EVs are appliances. Just transportation and nothing more. They can make great daily drivers, and I would use one for that purpose. But it can’t replace an actual sports car
@@mrmilimanbut there's a spectrum of opinion right? Not just manual only or ev only people. This car will be the litmus test to see if there are enthusiasts that want a more engaging EV. Honestly, if they're open to it, this car is perfect for all the DSG and pdk fans. If you're coming from a golf R or Macan this is going to be just as much fun.
You know how the koenigsegg CC850 is a manual and an automatic ? Imagine an electric car like that : "can be awd,rwd or awd with the press of a button , change engine sounds and have different levels of power and different gearboxes , if it whould have a retro design like an old mercedes coupe like a 500 sec or maybe an old ferrari or alfa" id be so sold on that , imagine you wake up "today i want to know how it feels to drive a huracan or an c63 or an 812 or even a FN2" and the car whould be able to adjut everything other than the weight of corse
Matt said "I know Porsche is coming out with an EV Boxter soon. Porsche needs to pay attention because it needs to be as good as this if not better" something like that.
Doug, you are easily the smartest person I know when it comes to cars. You outshine everyone with your knowledge of car history, model specifics, and just about everything else. You're a complete genius in this field. However, I have to say that I wholeheartedly disagree with you on this point. I don't think you fully understand how most people value cars. Many people buy cars as an identity purchase. They choose a car because it signals the tribe they belong to and who they are as individuals. People buy Ferraris for the race history, prestige, and rarity. People buy Toyotas because they want reliable transportation from A to B. And people buy Teslas to get from A to B while feeling a bit cooler. Car enthusiasts are similar to watch enthusiasts. A Rolex might not tell time better than a Timex, but it offers craftsmanship, history, and prestige. No one is going to buy a car because it has fake gears. As fun as that might be, the market for it is as niche as those who love Miatas. I'm sure it's a real hoot, but there will never be a significant demand for something that is, frankly, an obvious gimmick.
Really glad Doug is delving into this particular aspect of this car. Driving isn't just about going from point A to B, it's about getting your senses involved, from the perspective of a driving enthusiast. And the best part about it, is that it's only going to get better with each iteration...
Love your new upload schedule. 2 car reviews, your podcast and your own sit down with us on Sunday. And then we see cars & bids with you doing a lot more interesting and good stuff. Love it Doug
Almost all performance vehicles do pump fake noises and rumbles from.the speakers into the car as an audio combover to make the driver feel tougher. Look it up. And yes, it's embarrassingly stupid.
I’m on a budget but my youngest son can do an amazing supercharger whine and I’ve just recorded his sounds and play them through the stereo. I’m currently teach my wife to do a straight cut gear whine.
Spot on correct Doug, but even more important than entertainment, after watching Matt Farah push one around Laguna Seca, it became apparent that engine sound and shifting simulation can contribut to situational awareness of vehicle dynamics and how much of the limits of the car is being exploited in any given situation, rather than the novocaine disconnectedness of the normal electric car experience. Anythng that contributes to driver involvement and awareness contributes to safety. Now if they'd just employ the rest of the idea didn't patent, selectable programs, a half dozen different engines from a NASCAR V8 to a 275 GTB to Porsche Flat6 or a Jag XK150 Straight6. Formula One at 15,000 RPM anyone? What's your mood?
I don't know. Maybe id have to try it, but the fact I know it's not real shifting makes me think i won't like it. I don't like the fake exhaust sounds either. Otherwise seems like a good sporty EV.
I think the important thing is you have the option to use it. If its not your thing, just turn it off. As someone that does own a 5n, when use the shift mode, it does behave/act like a different car. I understand its not for everyone, but I think its something you have to test and experience for yourself before making judgements
I mean what proof do you need when absolutely every reviewer out there praises what hyundai did? At some point if the simulation is good enough that you just cant hear/feel the difference? I absolutely love my weekend track car. I’d love it even more if it cost 6 bucks to fill in electricity and made the same sound and feel the same.
How is this not more of an existential crisis for car guys? A single speed is the equivalent of continuously flat out, so adding a powerband literally requires slowing the car down while it simulates a combustion engine… So y’all cool with going slower? Inarguably good for slow ev’s tho. If one must be slow, at least allow one to bang some gears, amiright?
While not fully EV, Honda Civic eHEV hybrid has this feature (as you are driving, power train is electric, there is no transmission, but car simulates shiifting). So i wouldn't say Hyundai came up with this. But Doug is completely correct. It does sound like gimmick at first, but once you are actually driving car with this feature, it's really good and fun.
I don’t understand. Why simulate something that doesn’t exist and is unnecessary in an EV? I could see an argument for torque vectoring becoming the new “stick shift” in EVs, but not simulated gears. It’s the same problem with CVTs that try to have sport mode paddles in them: they’re totally pointless. I understand needing driver engagement, but I don’t like the idea of “simulating” anything. If Doug is the one talking about this as a “big thing”, that tells me Silicon Valley is apparently rediscovering driver engagement as an important element of driving… and that self-driving vehicles aren’t coming nearly as quickly as was initially forecast by them a decade ago.
It's for the folks that want the efficiency of an EV but also want to be more involved in their driving than 'push pedal, car go fast'. Yeah, it's basically a driving sim in real life, but it's fun and that's really what matters at the end of the day. It's no manual, but it's better than the alternatives. As far as Silicon Valley's involvement goes... I wouldn't count on any changes there. Most people seem to want to do as little driving as possible, and one great car from Korea isn't going to change that. It's not an accident that fewer and fewer cars are offered with manuals now.
I am a car enthusiast and I’ve been tossing around the idea of a Model 3 performance for commuting because it makes sense. I don’t go far and I like to go fast, but this is a game changer. I loved when Dodge revealed the new Charger EV with real converted sound from the electrical process. That was neat, but being able to “shift” takes that one step further. I still don’t understand why no one has mated an electric motor to a real manual transmission yet. Obviously it would need a beefy transmission to withstand the torque, but that could be limited in software. I think it could have multiple benefits though. Engagement for one, but wouldn’t it also increase range if the motor didn’t have to stay revved out at insanely high RPMs?
Fake gears are the dumbest gimmick ever negating the one advantage EVs have - smooth acceleration and instant torque. I really don't understand why are people losing their heads over fake gears and sounds 🤯
It's an option that you have to turn on. It's there for people that want it. I drive a model x p90d for months and it was fast but kind of boring. Anything could liven up the drive
@@enmass90 In this one car yes. im referring to the future. Its not an invalid concern either as you look at cvts and you literally cant find one that doesnt force this garbage onto you.
To really get the gas car feel with engine vibration... it needs a driving simulator gaming chair with the rumbling feature, and something similar in the software for the electric steering system.
Jeez! I couldn't agree with Doug less. I've driven manuals most of my life including sports coupes and motorcycles. If I ever get an electric car it sure as hell won't have some lame simulation of a multi-speed transmission. When both torque and regenerative braking are available at any speed why in the hell would I want a vehicle that "pretends" to shift gears? If that floats your boat just stick to video games.
Normally with Doug on a lot of things, but I strongly disagree with him on this. Obviously I haven't driven a Ionic 5 N so, maybe if I did my opinion would change. But I think the fact that it's fake takes away a lot for me. One of the reasons I like a manual transmission is that it is a skill and takes time to learn, the same is true of dual clutches to an extent. But with these fake shifts it isn't really since there is no consequences for getting it wrong. You're not going to break anything if you're on the limiter for too long and your not going to burn any clutches. To me I think that that takes away a lot from the engagement. It's like saying sitting in a racecar going "vroom vroom" in the driver seat is the same as driving it on the track.
I believe Lexus is already working on an E-Manual transmission. There was a prototype EV pictured last year with a 6-speed. Im pretty sure motor trend did an article on it.
I think this might catch on for some time but it will age out, as the cohort who is able to drive manual ice cars ages. Automakers that sells sports cars are always going to go for features that real performance have. If the formula e doesn't have the fake sounds and fake gear shifting then likely sports EVs will follow suit. This might continue on for a decade or two but I don't think fake engine shifting will stay. Not to say that this won't morph into another form of driving engagement but I don't think this will be the way. Likely they're going to keep the fake engine noises but I don't think shifting will be there.
I totally agree. I'm not a gear head, but I've always thought automakers should do something like this, a simulated gear shifting experience to bring in the gear heads. With EV's you can do anything you want; make it sound like a muscle car or a space ship, give it a stick shift that does nothing mechanically but gives the driver the sensation of racing. The first sports car to come out with a feature like this will be a game changer.
This feature is EXACTLY what I was hoping for back when EVs (Teslas specifically) first started hitting the market hard. I thought I would never get an EV because I don't want to lose the driving component. I always thought if an EV could figure how to simulate shifting, I'm in.
I wonder how much of the EV hate is just the lack of time driving an EV and also the lack of sporty EVs. No one seriously complains about not being able to manually adjust the choke or not needing to use a crank to start a car these days. If there was a factory EV 86/FRS which weighed and cost and handled about the same as the ICE version, but delivered the EV benefits of instant torque and was faster 0-60, I bet it would start to change the conversation. Right now current EVs are at best GT cars with large curb weights and high prices.
EV's got political in the last couple of years. Before that we all had fun with the Tesla vs whatever races and were amazed at the speed. Now media has turned it all extremely political.
Doug has some solid points, but he also misses so many times that it's hilarious. Your Ioniq 5N video is already top 5% in terms of views and its only been uploaded for 5 days. Ioniq 5N will definitely sell well albeit bottlenecked by how many Hyundai is manufacturing.
An EV could be like a racing game, you choose the car you want to drive today in the menu and it simulates the amount of gears, the sounds, the turbo lag. So you buy an Taycan Tubro S but you can simulate a Carrera GT, 930 Turbo or what else including the limited power an older car would come with. It's still not the real deal but it would open the experience of driving such a rare car you could never own. Just want things like to do in Gran Turismo or Assetto Corsa but now adapted to a real car.
Using re-gen to imitate engine-braking during downshifts is a game-changer. You not only have an analog feel for better driving dynamics, you can also recharge the battery during spirited driving.
It’s really not. The car has to accelerate again to make up for the deceleration, which means under ideal circumstances you just expend the energy you captured. In reality regen isn’t very efficient, so you’re actually losing a lot of energy doing this.
Maybe random horse s&$@t smells being wafted from the rear ac vents. A felt body wrap that I could comb just like an actual horse. I think you are on to something!
Do you think if engineers had access to current EV technology at the turn of the last century they would've bothered with gasoline reciprocating piston engines at all? Much less efficient, much more prone to breakage, dirtier, louder, slower, far less torque down low, requires much more maintenance, there's virtually no reason for the internal combustion engine car to exist, if we had the current state of the technology back then. Once the infrastructure is in place, and it will be, internal combustion engines will be as much of an affectation as fountain pens and manual watches. I currently drive a 6-speed manual car; I love the three pedal dance. I also, however, fill my fountain pens from a bottle and wind my 120 year old pocket watch and attach the chain to a button hole before going out if "dressed." I freely acknowledge *all* are less functional than their modern equivalents.
NOW you finally recognize that an auto transmission in Manual MODE is actually fun. I always wondered: you guys say auto is no bueno for the enthusiast, but you don't have to stuff it in auto mode, you can shift it MANUALLY? it took the taking away of the transmission for people who to realize that.
Man, that’s a pretty witty comment! I’m sure you had to put in some seriously grueling hours of brainstorming before you came up with a Doug is the type of guy comments of such high quality!! Looking forward to Doug’s next video so I can see your next masterpiece.
@@ZaydHakim sorry I’m on a crusade to end the Doug is the type of guy insanity. Nothing personal. I would rate your an above average on humor. So many of them are not even remotely funny or relevant.
Dear god I hope particular enthusiasts dont give manufacturers the incorrect idea that other people want the fake nonsense. Im all for people having options which is why I dont want to be forced to have any of this stuff. I dont want to be forced to lose performance because someone else thinks less performance "feels" sporty like many cvts force on you with no option at all to turn it off. So to summarize I get the appeal, and if its just some opt in option fine, but for Christ's sake dont force that crap on me auto manufacturers. I want the full performance and efficiency of the car with no gimmicks.
I saw a torque curve for a Tesla model S that showed a flat torque curve to 40mph. A gearbox would multiply that torque to give you wheel spinning in every gear until you got to a 1:1 ratio Also, if the amount of current consumed by the electric motor is based on the torque load, then a gearbox will definitely provide for more efficient use of the stored energy in the battery, since you're leveraging the wide torque band of the motor to your advantage
Years ago people wanted seriously fast cars that were stealthy and didn't draw attention. Now they want all that "look at me, hear me 4 blocks away" and could care less about the speed. Strange progression.
Its always been an epeen thing. They thought they wanted performance tiol everyone could get pwrformance so now they use obnoxiousness as a mark of pride as if they win over the standard person because they want comfortable transportation whilst trapped in the carcebtric hell hole.
@@khanmimaad You say this like objective fact but it is a niche group preference. I 100% prefer this over repeated ruckus noise, emissions, wasteful jerking motions etc. EVs even make track driving more about driver control than manhandling some old, outdated esoteric transmission of times past.
Just yesterday witnessed the speed and handling this thing can generate on the Nordschleife and it is insane. Seeing all four wheels actively forcing the car through corners at high speed is crazy. Must wear through tires quicker than that it loses charge on the battery.
I watched the main review and I have to say it's a really cool feature. However, I think it will be more like a loud stereo in that younger people will use it and older people won't because it will be seen as immature. I hope that won't be the case but I have a feeling.
Listen, I get that and all. And maybe once we switch over to ONLY making EVs, then this convo will carry a bit more water for me, but… If real cars still exist, why would I want one that only simulates that experience?
Because how many people want to deal with the bs of ice cars all the time? This allows you to selectively deal with the bs and only the bits of bs you find fun. No oil changes, blown gaskets, bad for your health exhaust, nuisance noise for neighbirs etc etc.
It would be amazing if someone came out with a manual electric! Something you could shift yourself with a clutch, and then, I don’t know, some sort of combustion engine, something that makes its own sound that doesn’t come from speakers, now that’s an EV I can support.
Renault already had this kind of feature in their renault clio GT from 2016 with R-sound. you could play different car sounds through the speaker to make your clio sound like a renault R5 or a Renault F1 car. i think this feature could greatly benefit EV's and im kinda surprised it hasn't already been added to more cars
The fake exhaust in the Dodger Charger EV is just to annoy people on the outside, like what their gas cars do. It doesn't actually add to the driving experience.
A long time ago, when Sega had introduced the 32X add-on for the Genesis console, they released a version of Virtua Racing for it. It's a Formula 1 racing game that was popular in the arcades. I bought the game, played it for a bit, then returned it. The engine sound of your car never changed, so you couldn't shift by ear. It was really dumb and broke the game for me. Looks like Hyundai gets what Sega didn't. I love this concept!
If a vegan burger is delicious, I don't see why I wouldn't enjoy gobbling one up. If both vegan and meat burgers are delicious, is there something I'm missing out on by not eating the meat burger?
This is a poor argument because those burgers are straight up better and being "the real deal" only means you were worse to the planet, animals, and other people (as any meat eater is automatically a welfare baby taking with the amount of subsidies meat production gets artificially lowering the price). Basically, Your analogy is actually right, but just not the way you hoped itd be.
I bet the first model-T fords didn't really sell well until they started shipping with a guy that sat on the hood, clapping coconuts together to mimic the sound of a horse-drawn carriage. This is a crutch, it's a simple gimmick. This is a propeller on top of a rocket. I understand people hate change, but don't praise companies for intentionally slowing/dumbing things down to accommodate those who can't handle it. There are still plenty of ICE cars out there for folks who hate linear, on-demand acceleration and performance.
I am no e-car hater. I am e-car prices hater and, I think more importantly, I am e-car lack of reliable infrastructure hater. Think about this, and that's the type of entitled society that we're, imagine not having - and you, Doug, probably experience that in CA - something as simple as water service where you live consistently. And let me know how you like it.
Hard disagree tbh, piping sound in the car is tacky, and now fake sound at that is double tacky. They need to figuee out how to make these cars fun without resorting to semi gimmicks
It's like preferring an mp3 file with synthetic ticks, pops and surface noises of vinyl. I t's for those who miss an inferior product because they are stuck in the past.
Other manufacturers can not emulate ICE&DCT without energy loss. Battery absorbing the regenerative braking power of -0.6G is essential in emulating ICE&DCT without energy loss and in low cost high performance brake system.
I think the beauty is really being able to absolutely rag on the car, bang it off the limiter, and not actually cause that much increased wear.
There is no rev limiter
YESSSS FINALLY SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS
@@flawlessfatality8105 There is a simulated rev limiter that feels like a rev limiter.
@bbokdoong there are no revs, there is nothing to rev, there can't be a rev limiter with no revs to limit
@@flawlessfatality8105 I'm on your side, but an ev does have revs, they just don't change because of shifting gears. Your point is still valid, there is no rev limiter, just a computer pretending you have less power than you should and stopping the car from accelerating properly because of fake gears and fake limits
People are really missing that Hyundai developed a complete experience. It’s not just the sound. It’s the tuning and integration between all the components at the right levels - sound as rev up/down/hit limits, feel, bit of kick on paddle shifts, and a precise timing at which they come together.
To say it’s just the sounds is like saying the iPhone succeeded because they removed the keyboard and made the screen bigger.
Finally a manufacturer realizing that a large appeal of the enthusiast driving experience is that cars are musical instruments.
FAKE is FAKE. is FAKE
@@dfsdh432v9 TRUE but it is so much FUN
@@dfsdh432v9 Electric guitars are fake but they're still sick.
@@dfsdh432v9Paddle shifters are fake on many gasoline cars as well
Exactly Hyundai N Division having the Former Head of the BMW M Division definitely paid off, who is a real Enthusiast. That said "Opel" did a Manual EV but only as Concept.
I've seen the Hyundai Ioniq 5 N a few Times on the Nürburgring now during "Touristenfahrten" (which is each Weekend where anyone from anywhere can drive whatever on the Nürburgring)
Compared to all the Tesla Plaid Cars i've see on the Ring, the Hyundai definitely was way sportier and actually handled most of the challenging Parts of the Track much better
Prost & Cheers from Berchtesgaden in the Bavarian Alps
It'd be cool if you could download different "car packs" that have different sounds, gauge clusters, and shift points.
I think that will be a possibility as they figure it out
Hopefully for free and not a subscription. 😅
I'm sorry to tell you bro it is definitely not going to be free.
Actually, I like this idea!!!
Yay, cars features as a service, can't wait 🙄
Kind of funny how an electric car can bring us a better transmission feel than a Nissan CVT
A computer simulation probably will create a more convincing transmission feel than a completely differently constructed gearbox
😂😂
Had a hyundai tucson one of the worst vehicles I have ever owned and broke down 10 times and they didn't honor the warranty thats a scam
@@newchannel1220imagine if FIAT 500 also went EV anytime soon.
@@MrHav1kthats really cool idea.😂
So we need a "Saab 99 Turbo" mode where you press the gas pedal all the way and the car only gives the performance after a two second "turbo lag" :D
Saab 99 Turbo still an amazing car btw.
Exactly!! We can ressurect all these bizzare characters of any car you imagine.
It gonna be ready to download with your monthly Hyundai subscription. 😂
I bought one... So at least there's one sold. It's awesome. Please folks, go test drive one and see for yourself. Feel the satisfying turn-in and weight transfer as you enter an off-ramp and marvel at your exit speed. The car is simply amazing and so fast in the real world. And it oozes personality, which isn't really something most EVs have. Hell, it's something most cars in general don't have. And when you need a normal car for life, it can do the TP run at Costco without batting an eye. Buy one and you won't be disappointed.
Yeah, not sure why Doug keeps on mentioning that it won't sell well. He mentions it a few times in the video...
I also noticed that he keeps saying that it won't sell well. But I seen lots of comments in a few videos saying that they test drive it and immediately bought it. So I don't understand why he is so negative about it. Like if he doesn't want it to sell well just because is a "Hyundai"
@@charliemorales3191 Because EV sales across the board are horrible.
It’s probably the only Hyundai product I would buy. I love the way it looks and the engine can’t blow up if it doesn’t have one 😂
Babe wake up, Doug is reporting from his dungeon!
I'm so tired of that comment
ThiSSSSSssss
I wish he'd put some car art on the walls. Instead it looks like the parking garage at an airport
Mid century bunker
@@plutothe9th361 nah bro I like it this way, looks like your average 10 car garage in GTAV
BMW will definitely sell "simulated" vehicles at a monthly charge - like $30/month for an E42 M3
e42 m3? 🤔
$30 a month? 🤔
@@dhalsim-1he means for the sound, not the car itself.
@@JeffKing310
Are you his father?
I never understood that widespread "Subscription Service for Options is what BMW does" Myth.
As far as i understood it, they did that exactly once in only one Country and now even there they stopped doing that
Hyundai has somewhat become the honda that we knew (minus the 100% reliability) that they make cars for the average person but still have time and passion for the car enthusiasts as well
No car is 100% reliable.
They are better than honda. Just look at what honda has in its line up. Civic type R is probably the only and best vehicle they have out of everything they sell. While huyndai has ioniq 5N, elantra N, kona N, sonata Nline with 290 hp. Or you can switch to Kia and get k5 gt with 290 hp or EV6 GT with almost 600 hp. Their luxury devision Genesis is also making better cars than Acura. The G70 3.3T sport prestige is faster and rwd or awd while TLX Type S is awd but fwd biased. You can get G80 or G90 those are almost S class level luxury, SUV are also better and more luxurious. See honda doesn't offer anything like this at all. They only have 3 fun cars type R type S and tlx type s
And with cars switching to electric, reliability is going to be less and less of an actual concern for potential buyers. Hyundai /Kia makes garbage engines but if they just get rid of them all together….
I agree with Doug on the validity of bringing the enjoyment of gas powered cars with manuals to the EV world. However, I think there's a bigger picture that was not mentioned. I drove an automatic transmission for most of my life until recently when I decided to buy a "real" sports car with a 6 speed. With gas cars always had an idea of how it worked. But once I bought the car and learned how to shift it brought a whole new level of joy. I think with this Ioniq 5 manual mode it will connect all of the cars together. Imagine being a new/young driver and driving this car. His/her journey will lead him to enjoy other classic cars with gas and a stick shift. This is the new future if we want to connect automotive history, culture, motorsports, and fun. Otherwise, if we keep the numb "petal to the floor" EVs as they are, there will be a disconnect and the newer generation will never understand the thrill of controlling gears and power and driving enthusiasm.
That sounds like a YOU problem
You‘re absolutely right if this actually catches on with more manufacturers then it‘ll be a nice gateway for new enthusiasts.
imagine hearing scream of a V12 while on the outside it's completely silent and doesn't grab police's attention
You wouldn’t be hearing the scream of a v12 though.
@@somenygaardyes you would...or do you think the recording is going to be computer generated? Or let me guess, a recording of a V12 isn't a "real" V12? 😂
But I5N blasts the sound both inside and outside.
@@trstnhn
The outside can be turned on and off independently.
Yeah, I think it's stupid and I really don't see the point. High performance engines are not just about the sound, it's the whole package of how it shoves you with the revs, the vibrations and all that. Just having some sort of recording "matching". How hard you press the accelerator is just not the same.
Hyundai has really stepped up the game, and now they are trying to make EVs more fun. I still prefer cars with a traditional engine but this is still a great attempt by Hyundai to make an electric SUV that's actually fun to drive
I hope this catches on.
I would also LOVE to see the system Toyota patented for simulating a manual transmission and clutch implemented.
Imagine having normal EV mode, Paddle shift mode, and 6 speed manual mode where you get to use the clutch and shifter.... That would be so cool.
WHY this exact comment is on every Hyundai Ioniq 5 videos????????????????
@@tocreatee5736cause it’s true, and also cause it’s Hyundai leading the pack
@@GT-hk8dy leading the pack to junkyard. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@tocreatee5736 hate on brotha, they’re making strides whether u like or not
I sure enjoyed my first drive in the Ioniq 5 N! It was the most enjoyment I have had in while from any car.
Ioniq 5 N terms of handling and horsepower, is matching even R33GTR.
@@purwantiallan5089the Ioniq N is like 500 something horsepower, would smoke any RB26 engine
your ultimate masturbation experience. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I'm suprised no manufacturer has put an old school 3-pedal manual transmission in an EV yet. That would honestly be amazing.
Lexus has one. Fully elective vehicle with a manual transmission, it even simulates stalling
Drove a 5N there days ago and it was amazing. It’s the first really fun EV and gave me back hope for the automotive future. I’ve previously owned a Taycan and the Hyundai was a far superior experience.
That's good to know, cause when I think of fun Evs, the Taycan comes to mind
You know the world is crazy when a Hyundai is a better sports car than a Porsche.
@@TheDarkPacific I enjoyed the Taycan, but eventually sold it for a petrol Cayenne due to loss of SOH. 7% of its battery capacity vanished in 1,5yrs/52000km. Then the rear motor short circuited on New Year’s Day 2022 atop a mountain in a blizzard 1400km from home. That was the end of my EV voyage. Now a friend came over and said I needed to try this Hyundai and just WOW! Rev limiter, gear changes, popping of the exhaust on overruns, loss of power if getting too low rpm, a gnarly high strung petrol exhaust, Aventador like jerks in the drivetrain when changing gears! I don’t know what was the most fun to drive, the Hyundai or my GT4RS. For sure the Hyundai was the most impressive stand out experience of the two.
@@DioTheGreatOne well, sports car might be a stretch. It’s still an SUV or at least a cross over with a tad high seating position, but the smile it put on my face was priceless. Really, really impressive. I can see Porsche replicating this with a manual stick operating the gears instead of paddles. It’s bound to happen and that alone makes me a very happy man as I’ve since 2015 have dreaded the day new ICE cars would go off sale here in Norway. IF that happens, I’m now much more at ease with it as I see the future not so bleak for us petrol heads as I used to do.
@@Nord_Mann dude boss!! May i ask why you bought a cayenne instead of a panamera? Seems more like Taycan
I worked with an intern on an FPV RC car using an Xbox wheel and pedal controller, and he tried to integrate these kind of features into using the paddle shifters. We could immediately tell it increased the level of immersion with the FPV car, it just adds so much to the experience! (It was a proof of concept and never made it to a product phase...)
damn, that sounds cool. what was it, for an rc car manufacturer? or some other kind of concept
@@coscorrodrift yes, I work for Horizon Hobby, at the time I was working on FPV in product development.
Very cool! As an RC enthusiast, I've been really excited to see if features aimed at full-sized EVs will make it into the hobby.
Btw, small comment since I saw your review of the ioniq 5 n, you mentioned only one engine sound and that is not true based on other reviews and what I saw on the dealership you have a couple of engine sounds. There was something else you highlighted as lacking but it was a setting within the menus to activate or change.
The second one is a sci-fi space ship sound not an "engine" sound
I agree this is awesome and Doug missed the cooler sounds 🥲, here's an idea: Try again the fancy sounds but in a track with the team ♥
Digital Speedometer.
Coming from an Elantra N owner, it's awesome to see the positive impact that the Ioniq 5 N is having on the brand (and also that the simulated nShift is actually good!) That said, my only gripe is the claim that it won't sell. If it is a car that enthusiasts really stand by, why not encourage enthusiasts to buy it? If nobody does, what will be the incentive for auto makers to try new things like this in the future?
Doug sneakily adding in Scotty Kilmer into the top left of the thumbnail with all the other angry oldies 😂
I had to go back and check! 🤣
@@Vizion-jp8zj I bet Doug had a chuckle to himself whilst making that 😆
Apparently, I’m an outlier, but I don’t get it. I have an EV6 GT and I have all the sounds turned off. I love the silent rush of neck-snapping acceleration, it allows me to concentrate on the feeling alone without being distracted by anything else. Maybe if I drove one, I would change my mind, but I doubt it. Btw I have owned many perfomance cars over the years, both manual and DCT and have enjoyed all of them, but I have come to really appreciate the incredible efficiency and instant torque delivery of electric motors. Besides they do make a sound, it’s just not very loud. I also have a BMW i8 (which I love) and that car has been vilified for having fake sound even though it has a real engine and transmission. This one is all fake and people are gaga over it. Times have changed.
Technologically, the sound of an ICE is the sound of friction--the continuous wearing out of moving parts. Engineering-wise, it's a negative, but consumers have been fixated on it since the hot rod and muscle car eras. It feels regressive to use computer wizardry to include an ersatz version of this sound, rather than ask consumers to adjust to newer technology.
Thank god there are opinions like this. Im super worried muppets running car companies will force this garbage onto the rest of us.
The people that you watch/"are gaga over it" are the "car" (or rather ICE) enthusiasts. They are coming out of their denial phase to see that EVs are not a fad, but a potential future so having EVs that can still offer some of that ICE experience in the future is something required for them. But the average person doesn't care about any of that. If they did, CVT cars wouldn't exist, yet Toyota are selling them in droves. If an EV would cost the same as an ICE equivalent, charge as fast and have comparable range while costing just 20% less to "refuel" with cheaper maintenance, most people would get the EV without blinking.
@@BeefIngot
Here's the thing, all the simulated elements are disabled by default on the Hyundai.
@@gabrielgingras814 No one is unaware of this. We are just aware of history.
CVTs all used to avoid this crap, but then car companies started including it as an option, and now you literally cant buy a cvt that isnt gimping itself with the fake gear change bs.
I dont want the same thing to happen to EVs.
Im fine with an opt in option that gives me full power and utility of the vehicle, and allows those who are so inclined to have the silly gimmick modes.
I am not fine at all with an opt out or mandatory system forcing this bs onto me.
In your review I think you missed the quirk that you can change the simulated sound between 3 presets. :( Makes me wonder if they could easily add more in the future!
I think Hyundai is keeping the car sounds to whatever is in their line up to avoid any copyrights with other brands
@@wesd991 unique engine sounds would be unlikely to qualify for copyright protection. It would be far more likely to fall under the trade mark laws. Harley was attempting to trade mark their world famous vtwin engine sound for a while but eventually abandoned the idea before their trade mark paperwork could be decided on by the US patent office. I believe one of the German auto manufacturers has a trademark from the European Union on one or more of their engines. BMW or maybe Mercedes.
The ionic 5N reminds me of playing a simulation driving game. Engagement matters a lot, and changes the experience. This takes something like a racing simulator and bridges the gap to reality. Optimum Tech made a video recently about playing racing games in VR, this reminds me of that.
As someone used to driving stick, gears provide a very good reference for the speed to take corners. You don't need to look at your speed, just know that you are going to do it in 2nd or 3rd.
Doug gets it! I’ve owned RX7s, golf R’s, and many other sports cars. I pre-ordered the Ioniq 5N as soon as it dropped. Doug is 100% right here, and other RUclips reviewers that have had the privilege of test driving this car, especially on the track, can see why this is a game changer.
I have never been more happier with a car purchase in my life, I can’t wait to see what other manufacturers bring to the table! Well done Hyundai N team.
The reviews have definitely been impressive. So many thought it would be horrible and some wanted it to be garbage. A lot of surprised folks. Seems like you will probably really enjoy it.
This car is like a fat chick fun to ride but never let your friends see ya ridin it.
My grandfather bought one of those brand new Ford Model T’s back in 1909. He wanted metallic silver as his colour choice but they told him he could choose any colour as long as it was black. Instead, he opted for the only other extra available a “Clippity-Clop” soundtrack through the speakers. He missed that horse-drawn carriage so much …
there is a review of this car en Nurburgrin... and seems like is really something special.. better than other performance EVs
I drove it and bought one immediately. I’ve been wanting an EV but they are not engaging. Not only did Hyundai make it engaging, but it has complete duality to it. It can be that silent eco box if you want and is fairly luxurious. I traded in a GLE 63s. This is faster and passengers say it’s roomier. This might be the biggest surprise hit I’ve seen. It’s not just good for a Hyundai, it’s an amazing car period.
I remember Farshad and @Salomondrin back in 2014 saying that new electric cars should have sounds and fun shifting modes. They even said companies like Ferrari would license sounds that EV cars could play on the outside and inside of the car
I test drove the 5N I cannot get That experience out of my head! Absolutely a game changer and I want one! 🏆🏁
If this feature of the Ioniq 5N is not the quirk of the year on his Doug awards, I'll be disappointed!
It would be tremendously cool to see a car from a brand like Porsche, Mercedes, Ferrari, etc. with this tech that lets you emulate the sights, sounds & gearing of historic models. Obviously this would never EVER be a substitute for the real thing, but even the idea of emulating something so simple as a Hyundai Elantra N here seems like a lot of fun.
They will absolutely be able to replicate fully manual transmission.
Tons of racing simulators already to it perfectly. The only thing left is having that system in the car itself.
Is the EV revolution making Doug nostalgic? Tesla could add that feature with a sftw update, but why would you want to go slower? Fake noise, fake shifting -- like fake horse heads on early buggies?
I have to give Hyundai credit for their attention to enthusiast cars the last few years. I am not an EV fan. At all. But this is great to see. Now if they can make it a 6 speed manual with “clutch”, I’ll be a little more on board. Still not as good as burning dead dinosaurs
This comment is why Tesla M3P will sell and this will bomb. It's a car appealing to a crowd that will die on their hill rather that drive something without exhaust.
@@mrmiliman I just don’t like electric cars from an enthusiast standpoint. It’s not dying on a hill, for me at least. It’s just that I simply get no enjoyment out of it. Most EVs are appliances. Just transportation and nothing more. They can make great daily drivers, and I would use one for that purpose. But it can’t replace an actual sports car
@@mrmilimanbut there's a spectrum of opinion right? Not just manual only or ev only people. This car will be the litmus test to see if there are enthusiasts that want a more engaging EV. Honestly, if they're open to it, this car is perfect for all the DSG and pdk fans. If you're coming from a golf R or Macan this is going to be just as much fun.
I just saw Hyundai EV catching FIRE on highway few weeks ago.
no way.
@@MuddyTubMedia Try the 5N and you might get a better idea of its sensation. 😉
You know how the koenigsegg CC850 is a manual and an automatic ?
Imagine an electric car like that :
"can be awd,rwd or awd with the press of a button , change engine sounds and have different levels of power and different gearboxes , if it whould have a retro design like an old mercedes coupe like a 500 sec or maybe an old ferrari or alfa" id be so sold on that , imagine you wake up "today i want to know how it feels to drive a huracan or an c63 or an 812 or even a FN2" and the car whould be able to adjut everything other than the weight of corse
I even heard Toyota wanted to add a fake "stall" if you don't correctly balance the clutch and gas pedal. That's just really overdoing it.
Matt said "I know Porsche is coming out with an EV Boxter soon. Porsche needs to pay attention because it needs to be as good as this if not better" something like that.
A competitor should bring out a feature that simulates urging your horse to pull you faster.
so dumb... ugh
If the people want it, why not?
Doug, you are easily the smartest person I know when it comes to cars. You outshine everyone with your knowledge of car history, model specifics, and just about everything else. You're a complete genius in this field. However, I have to say that I wholeheartedly disagree with you on this point. I don't think you fully understand how most people value cars.
Many people buy cars as an identity purchase. They choose a car because it signals the tribe they belong to and who they are as individuals. People buy Ferraris for the race history, prestige, and rarity. People buy Toyotas because they want reliable transportation from A to B. And people buy Teslas to get from A to B while feeling a bit cooler.
Car enthusiasts are similar to watch enthusiasts. A Rolex might not tell time better than a Timex, but it offers craftsmanship, history, and prestige. No one is going to buy a car because it has fake gears. As fun as that might be, the market for it is as niche as those who love Miatas. I'm sure it's a real hoot, but there will never be a significant demand for something that is, frankly, an obvious gimmick.
"There's gristle in this vegetable imitation steak! Wow! Totally like a steak now!"
Not quite the same analogy. This would be akin to lab grown beef vs beef from cows. The car is still a car. Not a bike with a car shell.
They need to engage with regen braking. Downshift MUST crank up regen braking to give it that engagement with the drive train.
its still only paddle shifting, I would love to see them try a simulated manual 6-speed H shifter + clutch
Then check out the
Opel Manta GSe ElektroMOD
Why simulate, but real!!
@@markperry5975because it’s an EV. Really no way to make it real, there’s no traditional transmission
@@watchreport Electrek UnCar EV had a manual transmission all the way back in 1979. Probably because they had no idea of how to build an EV.
There's no need for this. Why not buy the real thing? There are still multiple cars in the market right now with manuals.
Really glad Doug is delving into this particular aspect of this car. Driving isn't just about going from point A to B, it's about getting your senses involved, from the perspective of a driving enthusiast. And the best part about it, is that it's only going to get better with each iteration...
For a lot of people, it is just about going from A-B.
Love your new upload schedule. 2 car reviews, your podcast and your own sit down with us on Sunday. And then we see cars & bids with you doing a lot more interesting and good stuff. Love it Doug
This is the equivalent to someone putting a speaker playing turbo noises in a na car.
Almost all performance vehicles do pump fake noises and rumbles from.the speakers into the car as an audio combover to make the driver feel tougher. Look it up. And yes, it's embarrassingly stupid.
I’m on a budget but my youngest son can do an amazing supercharger whine and I’ve just recorded his sounds and play them through the stereo. I’m currently teach my wife to do a straight cut gear whine.
Spot on correct Doug, but even more important than entertainment, after watching Matt Farah push one around Laguna Seca, it became apparent that engine sound and shifting simulation can contribut to situational awareness of vehicle dynamics and how much of the limits of the car is being exploited in any given situation, rather than the novocaine disconnectedness of the normal electric car experience. Anythng that contributes to driver involvement and awareness contributes to safety. Now if they'd just employ the rest of the idea didn't patent, selectable programs, a half dozen different engines from a NASCAR V8 to a 275 GTB to Porsche Flat6 or a Jag XK150 Straight6. Formula One at 15,000 RPM anyone? What's your mood?
I don't know. Maybe id have to try it, but the fact I know it's not real shifting makes me think i won't like it. I don't like the fake exhaust sounds either.
Otherwise seems like a good sporty EV.
Yeah, this sucks, i don't hate evs, but i don't understand how people even like this
I think the important thing is you have the option to use it. If its not your thing, just turn it off. As someone that does own a 5n, when use the shift mode, it does behave/act like a different car. I understand its not for everyone, but I think its something you have to test and experience for yourself before making judgements
hyundai makeS everything fake
LG chem makes hyundai EV battery.
lose 65% of capacity within 7 years.
I mean what proof do you need when absolutely every reviewer out there praises what hyundai did? At some point if the simulation is good enough that you just cant hear/feel the difference? I absolutely love my weekend track car. I’d love it even more if it cost 6 bucks to fill in electricity and made the same sound and feel the same.
How is this not more of an existential crisis for car guys? A single speed is the equivalent of continuously flat out, so adding a powerband literally requires slowing the car down while it simulates a combustion engine…
So y’all cool with going slower?
Inarguably good for slow ev’s tho. If one must be slow, at least allow one to bang some gears, amiright?
I'm ok with the car being 5% (?) slower if it gives me 100% more driving pleasure
While not fully EV, Honda Civic eHEV hybrid has this feature (as you are driving, power train is electric, there is no transmission, but car simulates shiifting). So i wouldn't say Hyundai came up with this.
But Doug is completely correct. It does sound like gimmick at first, but once you are actually driving car with this feature, it's really good and fun.
I don’t understand. Why simulate something that doesn’t exist and is unnecessary in an EV? I could see an argument for torque vectoring becoming the new “stick shift” in EVs, but not simulated gears. It’s the same problem with CVTs that try to have sport mode paddles in them: they’re totally pointless. I understand needing driver engagement, but I don’t like the idea of “simulating” anything.
If Doug is the one talking about this as a “big thing”, that tells me Silicon Valley is apparently rediscovering driver engagement as an important element of driving… and that self-driving vehicles aren’t coming nearly as quickly as was initially forecast by them a decade ago.
It's for the folks that want the efficiency of an EV but also want to be more involved in their driving than 'push pedal, car go fast'. Yeah, it's basically a driving sim in real life, but it's fun and that's really what matters at the end of the day. It's no manual, but it's better than the alternatives.
As far as Silicon Valley's involvement goes... I wouldn't count on any changes there. Most people seem to want to do as little driving as possible, and one great car from Korea isn't going to change that. It's not an accident that fewer and fewer cars are offered with manuals now.
I am a car enthusiast and I’ve been tossing around the idea of a Model 3 performance for commuting because it makes sense. I don’t go far and I like to go fast, but this is a game changer. I loved when Dodge revealed the new Charger EV with real converted sound from the electrical process. That was neat, but being able to “shift” takes that one step further. I still don’t understand why no one has mated an electric motor to a real manual transmission yet. Obviously it would need a beefy transmission to withstand the torque, but that could be limited in software. I think it could have multiple benefits though. Engagement for one, but wouldn’t it also increase range if the motor didn’t have to stay revved out at insanely high RPMs?
Doug, WHY?! You're becoming my grandfather...bring back my crank starter too.
Other EV makers need to offer this, and not just on the top spec models.
Fake gears are the dumbest gimmick ever negating the one advantage EVs have - smooth acceleration and instant torque. I really don't understand why are people losing their heads over fake gears and sounds 🤯
It's an option that you have to turn on. It's there for people that want it. I drive a model x p90d for months and it was fast but kind of boring. Anything could liven up the drive
Im so worried that "enthusiasts" will force this garbage onto me like how you literally cant buy a cvt that doesnt do fake shifts.
@@BeefIngotno one is forcing you to do anything. This is an option you have to turn on.
@@enmass90 In this one car yes. im referring to the future.
Its not an invalid concern either as you look at cvts and you literally cant find one that doesnt force this garbage onto you.
If these junk EVs are so great why do they do everything they can to duplicate gas engine cars except talk about how much coal it takes to power one.
To really get the gas car feel with engine vibration... it needs a driving simulator gaming chair with the rumbling feature, and something similar in the software for the electric steering system.
Jeez! I couldn't agree with Doug less. I've driven manuals most of my life including sports coupes and motorcycles. If I ever get an electric car it sure as hell won't have some lame simulation of a multi-speed transmission. When both torque and regenerative braking are available at any speed why in the hell would I want a vehicle that "pretends" to shift gears? If that floats your boat just stick to video games.
Exactly! Each machine has its own engineering and its own aesthetics.
Normally with Doug on a lot of things, but I strongly disagree with him on this. Obviously I haven't driven a Ionic 5 N so, maybe if I did my opinion would change. But I think the fact that it's fake takes away a lot for me. One of the reasons I like a manual transmission is that it is a skill and takes time to learn, the same is true of dual clutches to an extent. But with these fake shifts it isn't really since there is no consequences for getting it wrong. You're not going to break anything if you're on the limiter for too long and your not going to burn any clutches. To me I think that that takes away a lot from the engagement. It's like saying sitting in a racecar going "vroom vroom" in the driver seat is the same as driving it on the track.
I believe Lexus is already working on an E-Manual transmission. There was a prototype EV pictured last year with a 6-speed. Im pretty sure motor trend did an article on it.
You are correct. And someone quoted those Lexus engineers saying the car was so fun to drive all they wanted was more seat time.
The Opel Manta GSe ElektroMOD got it
Thanks for bringing this up
Toyota electric cars are trash.
BZ4X has a wheel missing lol.
I think this might catch on for some time but it will age out, as the cohort who is able to drive manual ice cars ages. Automakers that sells sports cars are always going to go for features that real performance have. If the formula e doesn't have the fake sounds and fake gear shifting then likely sports EVs will follow suit. This might continue on for a decade or two but I don't think fake engine shifting will stay. Not to say that this won't morph into another form of driving engagement but I don't think this will be the way. Likely they're going to keep the fake engine noises but I don't think shifting will be there.
I totally agree. I'm not a gear head, but I've always thought automakers should do something like this, a simulated gear shifting experience to bring in the gear heads. With EV's you can do anything you want; make it sound like a muscle car or a space ship, give it a stick shift that does nothing mechanically but gives the driver the sensation of racing. The first sports car to come out with a feature like this will be a game changer.
This feature is EXACTLY what I was hoping for back when EVs (Teslas specifically) first started hitting the market hard. I thought I would never get an EV because I don't want to lose the driving component. I always thought if an EV could figure how to simulate shifting, I'm in.
I love seeing Doug’s excitement.😁 But I have to admit, I absolutely LOVE my EV because it’s quiet, non-engaging, and the torque is phenomenal. 🚙⚡️🔋
I wonder how much of the EV hate is just the lack of time driving an EV and also the lack of sporty EVs. No one seriously complains about not being able to manually adjust the choke or not needing to use a crank to start a car these days. If there was a factory EV 86/FRS which weighed and cost and handled about the same as the ICE version, but delivered the EV benefits of instant torque and was faster 0-60, I bet it would start to change the conversation. Right now current EVs are at best GT cars with large curb weights and high prices.
EV's got political in the last couple of years. Before that we all had fun with the Tesla vs whatever races and were amazed at the speed. Now media has turned it all extremely political.
Doug needs to try an MG Cyberster. Not that it will ever get sold in the USA.
Doug has some solid points, but he also misses so many times that it's hilarious. Your Ioniq 5N video is already top 5% in terms of views and its only been uploaded for 5 days. Ioniq 5N will definitely sell well albeit bottlenecked by how many Hyundai is manufacturing.
Someone already has one at work. Probably leased on a minimum tax salary sacrifice deal.
They will be extremely hard to get and Hyundai will sell every Ioniq 5 N they make.
An EV could be like a racing game, you choose the car you want to drive today in the menu and it simulates the amount of gears, the sounds, the turbo lag.
So you buy an Taycan Tubro S but you can simulate a Carrera GT, 930 Turbo or what else including the limited power an older car would come with. It's still not the real deal but it would open the experience of driving such a rare car you could never own. Just want things like to do in Gran Turismo or Assetto Corsa but now adapted to a real car.
Or, we could just keep making affordable and maintainable analog combustion cars because there's nothing wrong with them.
Using re-gen to imitate engine-braking during downshifts is a game-changer. You not only have an analog feel for better driving dynamics, you can also recharge the battery during spirited driving.
That's not how conservation of energy works.
It’s really not. The car has to accelerate again to make up for the deceleration, which means under ideal circumstances you just expend the energy you captured. In reality regen isn’t very efficient, so you’re actually losing a lot of energy doing this.
They should’ve put horse reigns in the first cars to simulate the feel of a horse and carriage. You can’t beat the manual feel.
Maybe random horse s&$@t smells being wafted from the rear ac vents. A felt body wrap that I could comb just like an actual horse. I think you are on to something!
Do you think if engineers had access to current EV technology at the turn of the last century they would've bothered with gasoline reciprocating piston engines at all? Much less efficient, much more prone to breakage, dirtier, louder, slower, far less torque down low, requires much more maintenance, there's virtually no reason for the internal combustion engine car to exist, if we had the current state of the technology back then.
Once the infrastructure is in place, and it will be, internal combustion engines will be as much of an affectation as fountain pens and manual watches.
I currently drive a 6-speed manual car; I love the three pedal dance.
I also, however, fill my fountain pens from a bottle and wind my 120 year old pocket watch and attach the chain to a button hole before going out if "dressed."
I freely acknowledge *all* are less functional than their modern equivalents.
NOW you finally recognize that an auto transmission in Manual MODE is actually fun. I always wondered: you guys say auto is no bueno for the enthusiast, but you don't have to stuff it in auto mode, you can shift it MANUALLY? it took the taking away of the transmission for people who to realize that.
Doug is the type of person to cancel a doctors appointment because he’s sick
Man, that’s a pretty witty comment! I’m sure you had to put in some seriously grueling hours of brainstorming before you came up with a Doug is the type of guy comments of such high quality!! Looking forward to Doug’s next video so I can see your next masterpiece.
@@somenygaard lol
@@ZaydHakim sorry I’m on a crusade to end the Doug is the type of guy insanity. Nothing personal. I would rate your an above average on humor. So many of them are not even remotely funny or relevant.
Dear god I hope particular enthusiasts dont give manufacturers the incorrect idea that other people want the fake nonsense.
Im all for people having options which is why I dont want to be forced to have any of this stuff. I dont want to be forced to lose performance because someone else thinks less performance "feels" sporty like many cvts force on you with no option at all to turn it off.
So to summarize I get the appeal, and if its just some opt in option fine, but for Christ's sake dont force that crap on me auto manufacturers. I want the full performance and efficiency of the car with no gimmicks.
Frickin Scotty Kilmer made it in the thumbnail, good lord, lol.
HAHAHAHA I JUST REALIZED THAT
I saw a torque curve for a Tesla model S that showed a flat torque curve to 40mph. A gearbox would multiply that torque to give you wheel spinning in every gear until you got to a 1:1 ratio
Also, if the amount of current consumed by the electric motor is based on the torque load, then a gearbox will definitely provide for more efficient use of the stored energy in the battery, since you're leveraging the wide torque band of the motor to your advantage
Years ago people wanted seriously fast cars that were stealthy and didn't draw attention. Now they want all that "look at me, hear me 4 blocks away" and could care less about the speed. Strange progression.
Its always been an epeen thing. They thought they wanted performance tiol everyone could get pwrformance so now they use obnoxiousness as a mark of pride as if they win over the standard person because they want comfortable transportation whilst trapped in the carcebtric hell hole.
People figured out going 0-60 in 4 seconds completely silently over and over again gets boring quick, who knew?
@@khanmimaad You say this like objective fact but it is a niche group preference. I 100% prefer this over repeated ruckus noise, emissions, wasteful jerking motions etc.
EVs even make track driving more about driver control than manhandling some old, outdated esoteric transmission of times past.
Just yesterday witnessed the speed and handling this thing can generate on the Nordschleife and it is insane. Seeing all four wheels actively forcing the car through corners at high speed is crazy. Must wear through tires quicker than that it loses charge on the battery.
This is ridiculous. People are gonna look back in 20 years and think how childish we were. Like putting horse heads on early cars.
Lol well said
real
The Hyundai Horsey Horseless 😂
Maybe the N stands for Nelly?
But the Ferrari and Mustang symbols are there for a reason.
100% agree with every word here. I'd love three pedals and a shifter on an EV, this is the first step!
I hate it. Fake sounds has the same vibe as Fake exhaust pipe
I've never been excited about an EV until the Hyundai Ionic 5. I love this car - it is not a only an everyday driver but it's sick AF
Very repetitive video. Doug is the kind of guy that make a more than 10 minutes that could be made in few than 2 minutes.
And you're the type of guy who's english sucks.
I watched the main review and I have to say it's a really cool feature. However, I think it will be more like a loud stereo in that younger people will use it and older people won't because it will be seen as immature. I hope that won't be the case but I have a feeling.
The last few years has seen a movement of people ignoring journalists as journalism has lost its way. Let's keep that trend going.
Listen, I get that and all.
And maybe once we switch over to ONLY making EVs, then this convo will carry a bit more water for me, but…
If real cars still exist, why would I want one that only simulates that experience?
Because how many people want to deal with the bs of ice cars all the time? This allows you to selectively deal with the bs and only the bits of bs you find fun.
No oil changes, blown gaskets, bad for your health exhaust, nuisance noise for neighbirs etc etc.
It's like having Gran Turismo in your car and I love the idea for an electric vehicle.
It would be amazing if someone came out with a manual electric! Something you could shift yourself with a clutch, and then, I don’t know, some sort of combustion engine, something that makes its own sound that doesn’t come from speakers, now that’s an EV I can support.
Renault already had this kind of feature in their renault clio GT from 2016 with R-sound. you could play different car sounds through the speaker to make your clio sound like a renault R5 or a Renault F1 car. i think this feature could greatly benefit EV's and im kinda surprised it hasn't already been added to more cars
I would love for a manufacturer to find a way to amplify the sound an ev motor makes to make it sound like a formula e car or something.
Isn't this what Dodge is trying to do with the new Charger that everyone cringed at?
The fake exhaust in the Dodger Charger EV is just to annoy people on the outside, like what their gas cars do. It doesn't actually add to the driving experience.
That's just noise, the Ioniq actually simulates gears with all of their limitations too. The car is literally slower with the feature on lol.
A long time ago, when Sega had introduced the 32X add-on for the Genesis console, they released a version of Virtua Racing for it. It's a Formula 1 racing game that was popular in the arcades.
I bought the game, played it for a bit, then returned it. The engine sound of your car never changed, so you couldn't shift by ear. It was really dumb and broke the game for me.
Looks like Hyundai gets what Sega didn't.
I love this concept!
You always bring something unique to the table, can't get enough!
Doug has the spiciest comment thumbnails
As a diehard manual owner, I'm thrilled they added this. I'm less thrilled it's exclusive to a giant crossover that costs 70k.
It's amazing, but I honestly think it's like a vegan burger. Looks like one, tastes very similar, but it's not the real deal.
If a vegan burger is delicious, I don't see why I wouldn't enjoy gobbling one up. If both vegan and meat burgers are delicious, is there something I'm missing out on by not eating the meat burger?
This is a poor argument because those burgers are straight up better and being "the real deal" only means you were worse to the planet, animals, and other people (as any meat eater is automatically a welfare baby taking with the amount of subsidies meat production gets artificially lowering the price).
Basically, Your analogy is actually right, but just not the way you hoped itd be.
I bet the first model-T fords didn't really sell well until they started shipping with a guy that sat on the hood, clapping coconuts together to mimic the sound of a horse-drawn carriage. This is a crutch, it's a simple gimmick. This is a propeller on top of a rocket. I understand people hate change, but don't praise companies for intentionally slowing/dumbing things down to accommodate those who can't handle it. There are still plenty of ICE cars out there for folks who hate linear, on-demand acceleration and performance.
Opel actually made an EV concept called the Manta GSE which has a manual
Opel fan here. Love their work! Wir leben autos!
Opel Manta GSe ElektroMOD
@@franzhuber7361 I will look this up now! Sounds cool!
@@franzhuber7361 ah yes I just watched a video about the retromod GSE. If only they could make this now as a new vehicle. That would be so fun!
Concepts don’t count.
I am no e-car hater. I am e-car prices hater and, I think more importantly, I am e-car lack of reliable infrastructure hater. Think about this, and that's the type of entitled society that we're, imagine not having - and you, Doug, probably experience that in CA - something as simple as water service where you live consistently. And let me know how you like it.
Hard disagree tbh, piping sound in the car is tacky, and now fake sound at that is double tacky. They need to figuee out how to make these cars fun without resorting to semi gimmicks
It's like preferring an mp3 file with synthetic ticks, pops and surface noises of vinyl. I t's for those who miss an inferior product because they are stuck in the past.
This might be the most out-of-touch I’ve ever seen Doug. The idea that any real car enthusiast would buy into that gimmick is absolutely laughable.
Go to throttle house, go to Hagerty, try one for yourself. You need a reality check my dude.
Other manufacturers can not emulate ICE&DCT without energy loss. Battery absorbing the regenerative braking power of -0.6G is essential in emulating ICE&DCT without energy loss and in low cost high performance brake system.