If it can't throw maths around that well, then it isn't. That's the genius! The skill in demos. Something that's not supposed to be easy is always good, maybe as a loading screen. But something that's IMPOSSIBLE on that hardware is much better, much more popular with the fans. Extra points if the manufacturer themselves has said it's impossible. Extra extra points if a respected expert, possibly with a Nobel prize, says it can't be done too. I don't think they give out Nobels for programming though. They should do. It's more interesting than maths, and in some ways, a field of maths, but in practice much more. It's also engineering (muchly so) and partly art. Partly science as well. It's like a magician, half the trick is making it seem like one thing is obviously happening, but it's actually something else and you'd never work out how. More so (extra points) if it's something really simple, deceptively so even.
Oh... unless he turned the CPU speed up on the emu but it somehow kept the same playback speed. Really not likely. It's one reason it's much better to see demos on real machines. Also, of course, if there's something that's not going to work on a particular emu, it's a demo.
It's impressive, I especially like the bump map and rotating Earth. It's a 4MB rom so my guess is the 1:49 part is somehow prerendered or maybe polygons idk
This reminds me of "Digital Dreamware"! The music, the showing off of special effects... Did I mention the music? So cool! Congrats to those who made this.
the FM and PSG are as good as your sequencing is and the PCM can be obscenely high quality if you have the storage for it - which demos do, since they don't have to worry about a game. it's a damn good tune to be sure, but not too technically bonkers.
@@SleepingCocoon I can tell there's some kind of streamed audio going on because of the aliasing but the synths are probably the console's own hardware yeah. Not technically bonkers but smart use of the tools.
Incredibly impressive on a machine with no 3D capabilities, hardware rotation capabilities, or even bitmap graphics - only tile-maps and sprites (and hardware DMA and interrupts of course :) ). This would have destroyed Nintendo if this was a hardware demo from Sega when it was launched...
@@sam_64 It doesn't have an explicit bitmap mode, but it has enough VRAM to place a unique tile at every position on the screen, so you can treat those tiles like a bitmap. It's not an ideal memory arrangement for quick rasterization of triangles since you need extra maths to calculate pixel addresses across tile boundaries, but to be honest a lot of machines of the time (even those with 'proper' bitmaps) presented the same challenge in one way or another, i.e. display buffers that were laid out in memory in a way that suited the graphics processor, rather than the programmer.
@@Bagel_Le_Stinky Wait, are you saying that demo authors create these effects, use them in demos and then they never see any practical use in games? Wow, consider my mind blown...
@@lurkerrekrul For amazingness, they often sacrifice versatility and generality. The routines use often use a particular way that only works with certain scenes or the like, or else they pre-calculate things and store the data, even if that's done by the console while it's loading and stored in it's RAM. That means it can't be done interactively in real-time where you don't know what frame's coming next until the user chooses where to walk or point. Some of them, maybe would work in games. On the Megadrive... there's been one Megadrive homebrew release as far as I know, that RPG, "Beggar Prince" I think was called. That was like 10 or 15 years ago. Thing is, any game with clever 3D effects could be done much better by a Playstation or some modern console. Snazzy effects don't impress Megadrive gamers as much. They're impressive to watch but you wouldn't necessarily buy it in a game. Instead it's gonna need beautiful art and great writing and gameplay. Still y'never know.
@@greenaum I was being kind of sarcastic. I've been seeing people drool over the effects in demos since the 80s on the C64. Effects which mostly have no practical application, but yet people hold demo authors up as coding gods who can make the hardware do amazing things. Sure, they make pretty effects, but I'd argue that actually writing a game that works well and is fun to play is a much harder task, and that the authors who create such games are the real coding gods.
I notice something, i think the voxel 3D section that only lasts several seconds around 1:50 absolutely reeks of VQ compressed video! Something you notice if you worked on image compression for a while, you know what sort of artefacts it tends to generate. Well i mean it sure looks nice but also i mean what kind of game would you suggest doing around that? Let's say you had a budget for 30 seconds of video, for a whole game, what sort of game could it possibly be, and would it still be impressive all things considered? And once i see a video compression based effect in a demo, i become VERY VERY suspicious about how the rest of the demo works, whether half of the rest of it is also video compression based, and odds are, a lot of it is. Like the tooling is not at all trivial, and once you put in the effort, could you possibly resist the temptation to milk it for all it's worth? For that matter i'm thinking a bunch of effects in this demo have nonvideo elements here or are completely nonvideo, but can i say for certain? I mean i'm not about to go on an RE journey, kind of not worth the time, there are probably more interesting things to RE.
this was made a whole *six years* after overdrive. the comparison is beyond moot, by 2017 titan had released overdrive 2, which uncovered aspects of MD hardware that were not properly even documented or emulated. this demo definitely exists in the same realm of OD2 in terms of technical chops, though.
How many sprites were used at the start for the galaxy of stars and them forming the logo? Similary, how many sprite were used for the dropplets of water that bound around later in the video?
@@SianaGearz But all the MegaDrive demos use like 16 times the memory on the cart than any game back in the day. 68k has 4 GB address space, though the 68000 only had pins for 24 bit, so 16 MB ?
@@4playrse I have coded for over 3 years now, it's not a good idea to ask a good programmer to *start* programming. I'm really just wondering how this type of 3d was possible on the sega genesis with no additional chips as far as I see.
Im not a developer but I think that putting this on practice would not be possible maybe as cutscenes from an actual game, a game running with those effects would burn rhe console's provessors.
Pretty sure it is possible, would be a pretty stupid stunt to pull otherwise. And they show these at demo shows and competitions, in front of witnesses, many witnesses! You'd lose all your credibility and marked as a twat forever if you tried cheating, slipping a Raspeberry Pi into a joypad or something. HAve you seen many demos? They're all like this. They're mostly a demonstration of the programmer's skill (and the artists' and musician's talents). They ALL do the impossible! Or at least, it seems that way. Often though there's limits, certain things done in a way that wouldn't work for general purpose, or in a game. Lots of tricks used to make it look good. But you never cheat, or secretly use different hardware! The Megadrive's processors can't burn, they only run at the speed they're manufactured to. And they look like they're running it, because they are! That is, equally impressive stuff is done every year by lots of demo teams on hardware you wouldn't believe! Sometimes even getting colours and resolutions out of hardware it isn't capable of on paper! Look up more demos if you wanna have more socks blown off. Just about everything with a display has had demos written, and probably a few that don't.
Xbox Series X: I need RAM :(
SEGA Megadrive: I need *LOGIC*
Genesis has no business throwing math around like this so hats off to the few who programmed this. Smart dudes.
If it can't throw maths around that well, then it isn't. That's the genius! The skill in demos. Something that's not supposed to be easy is always good, maybe as a loading screen. But something that's IMPOSSIBLE on that hardware is much better, much more popular with the fans. Extra points if the manufacturer themselves has said it's impossible. Extra extra points if a respected expert, possibly with a Nobel prize, says it can't be done too. I don't think they give out Nobels for programming though. They should do. It's more interesting than maths, and in some ways, a field of maths, but in practice much more. It's also engineering (muchly so) and partly art. Partly science as well.
It's like a magician, half the trick is making it seem like one thing is obviously happening, but it's actually something else and you'd never work out how. More so (extra points) if it's something really simple, deceptively so even.
Oh... unless he turned the CPU speed up on the emu but it somehow kept the same playback speed. Really not likely. It's one reason it's much better to see demos on real machines. Also, of course, if there's something that's not going to work on a particular emu, it's a demo.
Love the terrain that comes in at 1:05 reminiscent of 90s voxel graphics. Very prominent on AMOK, for example.
Blast processing !!!!!!!!
I personally feel this demo is more impressive than any demo done using present-day game engines.
Some really impressive effects and a overall relaxed mood. Would love to see some sort of "making of" :).
Call for Jon Burton from TT Games / Game Hunt Channel to do it. 😁
@@miasuke bought to say that. That dudes my childhood
It's impressive, I especially like the bump map and rotating Earth. It's a 4MB rom so my guess is the 1:49 part is somehow prerendered or maybe polygons idk
@@BdR76 judging by the artefacts it's VQ compressed video.
These are stunning, but also informative and encouraging.
The 3D is amazing
This reminds me of "Digital Dreamware"! The music, the showing off of special effects... Did I mention the music? So cool! Congrats to those who made this.
Subbed!!! Thank you for sharing this!
dont know how they managed to put this increidble quality music in it
the FM and PSG are as good as your sequencing is and the PCM can be obscenely high quality if you have the storage for it - which demos do, since they don't have to worry about a game. it's a damn good tune to be sure, but not too technically bonkers.
@@SleepingCocoon I can tell there's some kind of streamed audio going on because of the aliasing but the synths are probably the console's own hardware yeah. Not technically bonkers but smart use of the tools.
Its amazing what you can do with an FM synthesized if you take your time and not use GEMS.
it's emulated
This is incredible! Your channel just came up on my feed because I have been watching Atari800 demos :)
Incredibly impressive on a machine with no 3D capabilities, hardware rotation capabilities, or even bitmap graphics - only tile-maps and sprites (and hardware DMA and interrupts of course :) ). This would have destroyed Nintendo if this was a hardware demo from Sega when it was launched...
@Jeremiah Jonas Could you two be any more blatant, spammers?
Can't the Megadrive do bitmaps?
On the Wikipedia for the megadrive it says it can
@@sam_64 It doesn't have an explicit bitmap mode, but it has enough VRAM to place a unique tile at every position on the screen, so you can treat those tiles like a bitmap. It's not an ideal memory arrangement for quick rasterization of triangles since you need extra maths to calculate pixel addresses across tile boundaries, but to be honest a lot of machines of the time (even those with 'proper' bitmaps) presented the same challenge in one way or another, i.e. display buffers that were laid out in memory in a way that suited the graphics processor, rather than the programmer.
Impressive for a 16bit-Machine from '89...
Hoooot stuff :-O
Somehow it reminds me of the classic Farbrausch intros with a pinch of SmashDesigns, especially the music!
nice demo, the music is great !
Jesus christ did the genesis have 3D capabilities i didn't know of or is this REALLY GOOD spriting?
What kind of sorcery is this?
1:49 wow!
What kind of black magic is this?! How do you 3D landscapes on the Genesis/Megadrive?
VQ video compression, that's what it looks like to me.
wow
Love this demo so much!
Nice effects. When are we going to see them used in some great new homebrew game?
n e v e r
@@Bagel_Le_Stinky Wait, are you saying that demo authors create these effects, use them in demos and then they never see any practical use in games? Wow, consider my mind blown...
@@lurkerrekrul For amazingness, they often sacrifice versatility and generality. The routines use often use a particular way that only works with certain scenes or the like, or else they pre-calculate things and store the data, even if that's done by the console while it's loading and stored in it's RAM. That means it can't be done interactively in real-time where you don't know what frame's coming next until the user chooses where to walk or point.
Some of them, maybe would work in games. On the Megadrive... there's been one Megadrive homebrew release as far as I know, that RPG, "Beggar Prince" I think was called. That was like 10 or 15 years ago.
Thing is, any game with clever 3D effects could be done much better by a Playstation or some modern console. Snazzy effects don't impress Megadrive gamers as much. They're impressive to watch but you wouldn't necessarily buy it in a game. Instead it's gonna need beautiful art and great writing and gameplay. Still y'never know.
@@greenaum I was being kind of sarcastic. I've been seeing people drool over the effects in demos since the 80s on the C64. Effects which mostly have no practical application, but yet people hold demo authors up as coding gods who can make the hardware do amazing things. Sure, they make pretty effects, but I'd argue that actually writing a game that works well and is fun to play is a much harder task, and that the authors who create such games are the real coding gods.
I notice something, i think the voxel 3D section that only lasts several seconds around 1:50 absolutely reeks of VQ compressed video! Something you notice if you worked on image compression for a while, you know what sort of artefacts it tends to generate. Well i mean it sure looks nice but also i mean what kind of game would you suggest doing around that? Let's say you had a budget for 30 seconds of video, for a whole game, what sort of game could it possibly be, and would it still be impressive all things considered? And once i see a video compression based effect in a demo, i become VERY VERY suspicious about how the rest of the demo works, whether half of the rest of it is also video compression based, and odds are, a lot of it is. Like the tooling is not at all trivial, and once you put in the effort, could you possibly resist the temptation to milk it for all it's worth? For that matter i'm thinking a bunch of effects in this demo have nonvideo elements here or are completely nonvideo, but can i say for certain? I mean i'm not about to go on an RE journey, kind of not worth the time, there are probably more interesting things to RE.
Nice effects, very cool.
More impressive than overdrive
can't agree more. Overdrive showcases effects I've seen way too many times before. The ones seen in this demo are really fresh, like the normal map!
What about Overdrive 2?
this was made a whole *six years* after overdrive. the comparison is beyond moot, by 2017 titan had released overdrive 2, which uncovered aspects of MD hardware that were not properly even documented or emulated. this demo definitely exists in the same realm of OD2 in terms of technical chops, though.
Wow!! Would this run properly on the real hardware?
Yes it would!
Yes it does!
@@gmeeer9165 But your profile pic says yes. I'm confused.
Very impressive!
Wow! This is sweet!
This looks pretty cool, wait what did I just watch?
İ didnt know sega genesis/megadrive is that realistic... I mean powerful
Wow
tons and tons of palette manipulation...
a megadrive with a 68030 50Mhz ? how do they get that 3D frame rate on an original spec MD?
There is no 030 here, this is all running on the 68000.
@@4playrse its too easy to cheat these days. anyone who believes off blind faith is a retard. 68000s can't do that 3D framerate .
@@plasmaastronaut download the rom and put it on a flash cart and find out - it runs as intended.
@@plasmaastronaut that's guaranteed a video compressed section, looks like VQ.
Bro
How even?
How?
what emulator is this running on? I tried it with BlastEm, supposedly the most accurate MD emulator, and it crashes half way
I honestly think Kega Fusion is the best bet.
How many sprites were used at the start for the galaxy of stars and them forming the logo?
Similary, how many sprite were used for the dropplets of water that bound around later in the video?
I've half a mind to say that at the very least the droplets may not be sprites at all, but I'd like to be proven wrong on this.
@@Kawa-oneechan :-o
Is this using limited memory as if it was on a cart or an example of what the mega drive could push without those limitations?
Cartridge is always in memory address space, that's fundamental to the Megadrive architecture.
@@SianaGearz But all the MegaDrive demos use like 16 times the memory on the cart than any game back in the day. 68k has 4 GB address space, though the 68000 only had pins for 24 bit, so 16 MB ?
Amazing!!!
Can we download this demo to play on our system???
I would love to see it "live"!
Sure, you can download it from here:
www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=82607
@@Resistance1995 thank you so much!!!
HOW
Start learning to code and you will understand at one point =).
@@4playrse I have coded for over 3 years now, it's not a good idea to ask a good programmer to *start* programming. I'm really just wondering how this type of 3d was possible on the sega genesis with no additional chips as far as I see.
@@Birb64 If this is like the Overdrive demos, this is not 3D but more like a bitmap pictures slideshow (if I don't say bullshit).
@@brorianszk you might be right. It isn't out of the ordinary.
@@Birb64 Ok, then you will have to excuse me, my reply was not meant in any negative way, sorry it came off that way.
Nintendo of Japan ; Nani?? BAKANAAAA
Music doesn’t sound like sega maga drive music
What is this
Where can I buy the cart?
i hope there wasnt any FPGA everdrive trash
Im not a developer but I think that putting this on practice would not be possible maybe as cutscenes from an actual game, a game running with those effects would burn rhe console's provessors.
Pretty sure it is possible, would be a pretty stupid stunt to pull otherwise. And they show these at demo shows and competitions, in front of witnesses, many witnesses! You'd lose all your credibility and marked as a twat forever if you tried cheating, slipping a Raspeberry Pi into a joypad or something.
HAve you seen many demos? They're all like this. They're mostly a demonstration of the programmer's skill (and the artists' and musician's talents). They ALL do the impossible! Or at least, it seems that way. Often though there's limits, certain things done in a way that wouldn't work for general purpose, or in a game. Lots of tricks used to make it look good. But you never cheat, or secretly use different hardware!
The Megadrive's processors can't burn, they only run at the speed they're manufactured to. And they look like they're running it, because they are! That is, equally impressive stuff is done every year by lots of demo teams on hardware you wouldn't believe! Sometimes even getting colours and resolutions out of hardware it isn't capable of on paper! Look up more demos if you wanna have more socks blown off. Just about everything with a display has had demos written, and probably a few that don't.
no gameplay tho
You are watching the wrong video
it would lag as fuzzy because it would have to process different things at once.
Whoa, they should call it something other than "fully playable interactive joypad-operated game that you play" then, the big scammers.