I love how kanye and kid cudi collabed, made an album about mental health, etc and sang "I have my issues ain't that much I could do but peace is something that start with me" and then had beef between each other later .
So what? The reason why they aren't friends anymore is because Kid Cudi has been friends with Pete Davidson for years and Kanye tried to ruin their friendship. You gotta drop people like that from your life.
I look at KSG as a "what could have been" where we got a kanye that was actually taking care of his mental health and asking forgiveness and taking accountability for his actions
True and considering that his future stuff aside of maybe Donda didn't ever get to that same level of Quality and lack of toxicity, it really feels like one last glimmer of College Dropout to Mbtf Kanye, the one we all loved, the sane charming but still confident Kanye It's a sad album because of what he became really
That's what happens when you decide to not get any help for mental health and just really on religion instead, honestly all the yes-man around him that didn't do anything to help him deserve just as much ire as he does
It sounds like they’re still 10’s for you but you have no desire to listen to them again or think about them again. I feel that way with several albums I’ve really loved over the years.
Are they really a 10 if you don't feel like listening to them ever again. That's why I feel like some music listeners really get caught up in the moment, they're not objective and it's fine to a degree. But saying stuff like 'this album is an instant classic' or ' this album is perfect, no skips' tends to be a hyperbole alot and never really pans out as soon as a 2 or 3 months later when it's not even in that persons rotation anymore .
@@mxchael_0385 well the difference here is that his desire to not listen to KSG specifically anymore is coming from factors outside of the music/album itself not because he got sick or tired of it. I guess if you REALLY wanted to you could say the outside events are apart of KSG and directly change the meaning of the lyrics/message but IDRC. He makes it sound like if kanye and kid cudi died or vanished from social media entirely after KSG released he would listen to it as much as any other album he thinks is a 10
@surdukks2219 yh but so what, I love the weeknd, Jhené aiko, j cole etc. If they got arrested for a murder or sexual assault or fraud idc, there's some songs I will still listen to regardless. If its a 10/10 , you listen to it regardless cos it's just that good.
@@mxchael_0385it makes it fundamentally less enjoyable for me to listen to an album by a bad person. Because deep down I feel sorry for that bad person and wish they hadn’t done the bad things they did, so am thinking about that rather than just enjoying it even if it’s a good album.
This video released just as I was wondering why Kids See Ghosts wasn't included in his list of the best rap albums of the 2010s. Glad I might see an answer lol, didn't think I would
The biggest thing for me with YWGWYW is it's so hard to separate this particular piece of art from the actions of it's writer. Paranoia, aggression, addiction, nihilism. These are things he was accused of doing to a person. I think that's what makes it harder to listen to, for me, than KSG.
100% understand anyone who refuses to listen to the Daughters record, but can we PLEASE stop this narrative that's been grafted onto the album retroactively? That "the writing was on the wall" and that only a sick fuck could have made such dark music. Implying that only evil people can make art depicting evil is conservative pearl-clutching and a gross and damaging misrepresentation of extreme/dark art.
besides, if people are not gonna listen to Daughters just for that reason, they better not listen to 99% of music made by people tied to Epstein, Drake and Diddy.
I think all art comes from somewhere within the creator that is why it is impossible to seperate the art from the artist. To say that nothing that Daughters made came from within Alexis’s own heart is a little childish
I'm not surprised about Daughters at all, though this is my first time hearing about it. I remember seeing them in a small venue around 2008. The singer was groping women's breasts. There was no indication of sexual assault. But it's not something you usually see at a punk/indie gig for a reason, and left people uncomfortable. I've had weird vibes about that dude ever since their music came out, and I do like that last album they did.
Arent you lucky that you used to get out of your middleclass suburban home! Did your Dad give you 40bucks to go out that weekend? Did you ask for a refund because you were so offended? Lucky you didnt go to see GGAllin and cop a turd to the face methinks
And that video of him around the same time I think, it's on RUclips, of Alexis pulling "it" out and wrapping it around the microphone stand and stuff lmao. Then fleeing because someone called the cops and the entire band is left sitting there like haha alright I guess that happened, and the set was over.
@@imrippingthefuckingheadoff i saw him do this in a coffee shop in teh middle of rural illinois playing to a crowd of like 10 people tops. maybe 2003? whatever it was a good set.
Groping tits and signing them, is common with all bands. From Gene Simmons to Kanye, its par for the course. Now saying your husband graped you, yet you stayed in the relationship and have millions of dollars to sue him....is hard to believe. Especially when you see she has a giant chest tatt, and collects horror figurines...sounds like they were both fked. Doesn't matter either way, good music is good music.....so whatever it takes for them to get there.
I love the one meme from r/indieheadscirclejerk that was something like "Daughters fans separating the art from the artist while listening to an album made by an abuser about abusing people"
yeah like clearly he was not okay. the album spoke to me at the time because i was also not okay, but like... you know, in hindsight, there are different kinds of not okay, lol. it's one thing to be tortured and depressed but it's another thing to be basically writing songs about how fucked up and abusive you are. not directly, mind you, but when you view a LOT of the lyrics on that album through this lens.... things fall into place. he's probably not proud of his actions and it shows, and like yeah dude, you shouldnt be, but maybe dont write songs about it. get some help.
That’s the worst part about it. Cudi has publicly stated he didn’t agree with Kanye’s bullshit and some of the best music he’s ever made gets looked down upon because of it
@@Viibeezzwell it's true tho, we may never know what really happen, just the two of them 🤷🏻♂️, but I really hope someone take FM to court so he can be investigated
I’d still consider KSG a ten. It’s Kanye and Cudi’s best work in a long time. They brought out the best in each other creating a unique portrait of their relationship and struggles. I have personal connection with that album being that it reignited my love for hip-hop and it got me through tough times. And lastly I’d it’s a Momento from a better time, a future that we could have but it all slipped away.
After kristin statement got published, I don't even understand how someone can listen to the Daughters album. I remember sometime around last year I wanted to listen to it and when I listened his lyrics and I put them in context, it went from being a dark and twisted experience to an unbearebly gross trip to the mind of an abuser
yeah and the fact that Kristin is dropping her stage name and completely reinventing her image just to distance herself from her trauma and the shit Al*xis put her thru speaks alot to how fucked up of a human that dude is
Those things are one and the same. Pretty hard to make a severely dark and twisted experience without being a severely dark and twisted person yourself. Pretty sure Michael Gira has allegations as well and his music is fucking horrifying.
I mean, independently of what the composer actually do in his life those were always real disturbing feelings one might have, if the person singing them actually feels them is kinda irrelevant to the morality of listening. I 100% get it if you're not comfortable listening to it anymore, but to me it keeps being a truly amazing work.
@@godnotavailable2094 While I agree that is logical that an album like that one had to come out of someone that reflects the expression, you can feel the same fear, paranoia and helplessness withouth necesarilly have commited the crime he commited. It's a fine line but it makes a difference (at least in the listening experiencie). Didn't know Michael Gira had allegations as well.
@@godnotavailable2094that’s kind of a stereotype. You can make challenging, dark music and not be abusive. Is there a correlation? Yes, but correlation and causation are not the same
fuck man Daughters (their first album when they were grindcore) was the band that first got me and my bff to bond when we were 16. I had no idea about any of the allegations until this video.
I haven't listened to Daughters since I read Kristin's statement. Loved the music, but I feel incredibly uneasy knowing that they all knew what was going on and chose to look the other way.
I relate to this when talking about slowthai’s UGLY from this year. Absolutely loved the record from its release and had it up pretty high in my favorite albums of the year. Then the allegations came out and because of how personal and deep that record was, what was happening on the outside in regards to the artist himself was very distracting and contradictory to everything he was expressing on UGLY. I have conflicted feelings on the record now until further updates are provided. I agree with a lot of the comments here though, the separating the art from the artist argument definitely varies from case to case.
I feel the same way about UGLY as well. Loved the record, but as you said, once the allegations came out.. It really skews your experience with the record & how you feel about slowthai himself. Then again, the allegations were from a period of time before UGLY may have even been conceived/thought of. Perhaps His past caught up maybe when he was making honest efforts to be a better person? Who knows. I just hope none of it is true.
I totally agree. For some reason, with Slowthai & UGLY specifically, I really struggle to separate art of artist. It was my AOTY and on repeat for weeks when it came out, but since the charges/allegations have surfaced, I never listen to it. I even skip songs from it when they come on shuffle, it just makes me feel, icky? Yet there are other artists I have no problem separating art from artist. Weird.
Yeah, I have trouble separating the art from the artist in slowthai’s case and I think that’s because before the allegations, I really liked his personality and related to him personally having grown up in a poorer environment in the UK, I wasn’t only attached to the art, but the artist himself and that makes me not want to listen to him anymore because it doesnt feel the same. The allegations also make the opening line of HAPPY really gross which bothers me a lot
I had the same thing with Kanye but I've gotten back into him a decent bit, but man the daughters thing is a different level for me. Like I can't at all revisit the daughters record
This is the same take I have. The Alexis situation is on a whole different level. Kanye is fully to blame for his hateful behavior, and it has certainly has material consequences, but such unabashedly evil, life ruining and violent domestic abuse puts you far above any level of attention-seeking hate speech. The Ye situation has me torn about listening to his music sometimes, sure, but I could solidly never listen to YWGWYW again.
It’s probably because Kanye material I’d argue doesn’t have anything to do with the fucked up shit he’s done, but Daughters album quite literally have abusive lyrical content
@@littleguy8 I think that's a big part of it for sure. Plus a part of me wonders if Kanye says the dumb horrible things for attention and other crap but with daughters they did those disgusting things and the album in a way seems like they brag about it and it's just really weird.
@@Amaling does it though? I've looked through the lyrics and it just seems like abstract existential dread and regret. I guess it's people putting together why the singer feels that way to write what they did, but it doesn't exactly map one-to-one with any actual things that occurred...
When I first put on that Daughters album, I thought you were smoking crack to give it a 10 but after I listened to the whole thing from start to finish, I could see why you did.
It's not that I can't separate art from the artist and this past year I enjoyed listening to some of Kanye's songs but it's just not the same as it was before, it's especially true for his last few albums that focused on mental health, family & faith. it's much easier to have a good time listening to his classics as it completely feels like something from the distant past that has been solidified as a classic.
how??💀 yall are acting like kanye is trying to end the world, kanye has and will always be controversial and if you can’t handle that listen to someone else
I had the same response to the Daughters record. Loved it when it came out, but man, it's just... hard to separate it from the artist when its so personal and knowing how bad his actions were. If it was some rando member that they kicked out after the accusations, that's one thing, but when it's the lead singer and frontman... that's pretty much the end of that. I actually went through this before with a Korean band called Drug Restaurant. They had a super cool and moody rock sound, and I thought they were gonna be one of my new favorite Korean artists... until it came out that their lead singer was heavily involved with the Burning Sun scandal from a few years back. Kept my CD just for history's sake like I did with the Daughters album, but I haven't listened to them since.
To some somgs i still listen,but more as a reminder and as some kind of blunt and disgusting confession, and straight after that, as a let's say "fitting" answer i listen to lingua ignota. It's perverse, but it's a perfect example of what humans are capable of,or simply what they are.
City song, Satan in the wait, the flammable man, and of course guest house will never leave my playlists. But, I also listen to Charles Manson unironically. If you choose to not listen that is your right and I totally get it though. We all have our own paths to plow thru. Carry on
Daughters is honestly one of the few bands I can separate the art from the artist. And honestly I don't blame anyone that can't, the serious allegatitons combined with the many questionable lyrical undertones that in retrospective have aged horribly............ But man, even with that YWGWYW and S/T still hold a special place in my heart and are albums I still listen to this day. I don't think I will ever find band that really makes take all the anger out while making me question my existence like Daughters. Till this day I'm still horrified by Marshall's action, but I'm not gonna pretend like He isn't one of my fav frontman musically ever
I've been a fan of Daughters since 2003, but after hearing about everything about Alexis and all his terrible behavior, I can't listen to their music in his conscience anymore. After reading Lingua Ignota's writing about everything she went through, I haven't been able to touch anything by them since
The Daughters album is straight up masterpiece, still couldn't listen anything that aggressive, nihilist and at the same time awesome and productionwise perfect.
Slowthai is also someone whose music is difficult to listen to now. I'd enjoyed his three albums, but some of the content feels very real in light of his current situation.
I think the daughters record is unique because the lyrics are so frightening evil and insane and finding out there not like a extra character there actual actions of Alexis and it turns the album from unsettling to outright evil and disgusting.
I've always felt like an apology is kind of an insincere gesture. Applogies can be faked. Sincerity can be faked. I do agree that its important to acknowledge ones own wrongdoings but hell man think about somebody like Chris D'elia's apology. It seemed way sincere but clearly it sort of made way for him to keep doing all that heinous shit
I think there was some recent gossip surrounding Andy Morin and his ex-girlfriend, but it didn't really turn into anything. Kinda like that Spreadie Gibbs shit. Hopefully it checks the box for DG and we never have to hear some awful shit
I understand what you mean but KSG was not Kanye's album. I would argue it was more Cudi's as I felt it was more focused on Cudi journey and struggles with mental health. I know kanye is in a bad spot in his career, but Cudi should not suffer especially since he and Kanye dont have a relationship anymore. listen to the album man.
You Won't Get What You Want actually spoke to me more after the allegations came out. i mean i've never listened to it and never will, but the title has so much more meaning to me now given that what i want is for women to not be fucking abused or assaulted
The title and art for that album was what made me interested in it to begin with. I remember Anthony unpackaging the vinyl only to unfold an empty black gatefold, before commenting "You really won't get what you want." I thought that art decision was so clever...
i’ve never understood your insane hype of kids see ghosts, it’s great but no more than an 8 for me. you won’t get what you want is still one of the most haunting, surprising, dark, and catchy albums i’ve ever heard. 10/10
I always understood the 10 rating. It's flawless for me. Every instrumental is incredible and it pulls from such a wide range of genres in a really creative way with such great execution. Song topics are personal and conceptual, Kanye and Cudi both have amazing performances, rapping and singing, and the features are great. Best thing Kanye's ever done in my opinion.
I always thought the album doesn’t hit hard enough. With more distortion and powerful bass lines the album’s aggressive nature would come to the front. I listen to a song like freeee and I’m left wanting more. If it had a kind of Pinkerton/ ITAOTS type distortion on drums I would understand the hype. Overall good songs but mid production.
It’s pretty sad knowing that these two records received critical acclaim, got 10s, and both are surrounded by people that have done such terrible things. Truly disappointing
@@user-us2cl5lr7z Bro kanye has a history of complaining about racism enacted on him and the black community, but now hateful behaviour is just some words? It's so funny how fast ya'll become racist just because an artist you like makes music lmao. You have the moral backbone of a squid, degenerate behaviour.
I mean its not the first time it happens and wont be the last, Lou Reed was terrible and mysogine but TVU and Nico is a masterpiece, David Bowie had intercourse with a minor and made 10/10 albums
Can i just say the melon has one of my favorite communities online. The discussion of whether or not you can seperate art from the artist, financially supporting said artists and whether or not fantano had an obligation to no longer platform these artist is an incredibly nuanced and complicated subject and these talking points so often get conflated with each other its just so refreshing to see a discussion about this subject without the bad faith and straw man arguments
no matter how good i may still find YWGWYW, it’s fuck daughters forever for what their lead singer did to lingua ignota. whole album soured for me when i heard about that shit
I also can't listen to either anymore. And I was a huge Daughters fan. But people think it's like suddenly you go "Nope! They did something bad and I have to stop listening or I'll look bad too!" No. I have values and things that I know are straight up unforgivable. We all fuck up sometimes. But being antisemitic or violent to women isn't just a fuck up. Even if they made apologies and did things to somehow back track their actions people are not obligated to give them another chance just because they're artists. I know plenty of people who, like myself, have gone through darkness and find release by expressing artistically. Nothing wrong with that. But Alexis chose to also make his darkness everyone else's problem in and that's where I have to say "fuck you".
I can’t stomach listening to Daughters after what happened, as much as I love their music. The lyrical content is just so directly tied to the behavior that I just can’t ignore it
@@ultra3755I can't listen to Lostprophets anymore because it reminds me of what Ian Watkins did, and I don't want to think about that. I think that's perfectly reasonable, as is not wanting to listen to Daughters for similar reasons
@@vinceeager8553 if certain music makes you think of something that makes you uncomfortable therefore you can't listen to it I can somewhat understand. I just think the idea of "omg this artist did something terrible I'm never listening to that awful music again🤮" is cancerous.
Thanks for speaking on this. Kristin’s impact statement about Alexis is so horrific I don’t care to listen to any Daughters’ material ever again, and I was once a big fan. I’ve filled the Daughters void pretty easily though, with bands with a similar energy and sound like The Jesus Lizard, Chat Pile, and The Birthday Party (who were obviously a huge influence on Daughters). If anyone has any other recs comment 👇
I was a fan of Daughters for close to 20 years, and then I heard about the allegations and read Kristin's writings and interviews about what she went through, and I haven't listened to them since. Hearing and reading about her ordeal made me feel sick to my stomach. I sincerely do hope she's been able to find healing after all the horror she had to go through
I bet anyone who was a fan of YWGWYW would like at least a couple of songs off of Model/Actriz's debut album Dogsbody that came out earlier this year. Similar noisy intensity yet insanely danceable too. I'd actually say that in my experience Model/Actriz was a better live experience than Daughters
i recommend people actually read the full statement by kristin. It's pretty nuts, i can't imagine ever enjoying listening to someone like that (daughters frontman)
If you like The Jesus Lizard as well as Daughters' early math/grindcore stuff, I highly recommend you to listen to Dazzling Killmen and Craw. You may also like Japanese prog/noise drummer Tatsuya Yoshida who's been a part of the noise scene for a long time, I recommend you check his projects such as Ruins, Koenjihyakkei and Korekyojinn. These bands are unique for incorporating progressive instrumental palettes over the base noise composition in a very interesting way.
@@kamaujayjay9556you said it yourself, you have yet to see any proof. Why would you feel that way about him then? Seems a bit premature. False allegations are far too common these days that my perceptions don't change until I see valid evidence. Even then, my opinions on the music itself wouldn't change, but it certainly would on the artist as a person.
Good take, i saw Daughters live on the ywgwyw tour and bought a shirt and I don't even feel comfortable wearing it in public anymore due to this shit. Its a really awkward and uncomfortable situation as a fan.
@@kelleyreeves965 I just use mine as a sleep shirt now. Fuck Alexis Marshall, sucks for his band mates too but theyve been awfully quiet on this whole thing so idk
@@kelleyreeves965 just read Kristen hayters full 7000 word statement and decided to throw the shirt in the trash shits really bad . As a survivor of mental and physical abuse myself i can't feel right wearing a shirt platforming someone like that.
I agree with everything said in the video. However, as a Swans Fan, I think it’s time you turn your attention to Micheal Gira. He raped a collaborator in about 2001 or so. When discussing the situation, he acknowledged the incident as a ‘mistake,’ but insisted that the act was consensual despite the victim continually asserting that it was not. Maybe you just have t heard of the allegations, but it’s the reason I never feel comfortable listening to Swans’ releases from after the 90s.
I don't think there's really enough on Gira for it to be quite the same thing. I'd need more substantial allegations to come out from other sources than Larkin for it to really negatively affect my listening experience, personally
Yes! The pinnacle of Fantanos taste and towering over his hundreds or 1000s other album review is so good it’s unlistenable at the end of the day. By him.
6:11 I'm pretty sure that he was angry with him for sleeping with his wife straight after they divorced, and began integrating himself into his life and spending time with his children but hey, that's just me.
ive had existential crisis back in 2018 and its same now, dude being accused of something changes absolutely nothing for me, i dont even known the guy, im here for the music, ofc its horrible what he's done ,but i relate to pointlessness and existential dread that album is about
this video is the representation of saying "i separate the artist from the person" and then immediately doing the damn opposite. you talked nonsense for nine minutes. i love you anthony, and i think you're a really smart guy, but sometimes you say a lot of bullshit just for the sake of it
"The group claim that vulnerability is their armour, where exactly is all of this vulnerability? It’s as if the lyrics have been generated by a Guardian designed algorithm, every red button issue of the day systematically addressed in the most predictable way imaginable. Nothing all that personal is ever laid on the table. I don’t feel like I learn anything about Joe Talbot by listening to Joe Talbot. The easiest way to gain popularity online of course, is simply to regurgitate what everybody else already believes. It’s in this way we’ve ended up in a freefall where meaningful self-expression is concerned. Terrified of making a wrong step in a world where people are regularly hung out to dry for not having the right beliefs, the right points of view, we have left ourselves marooned in a monoculture, and I purport that IDLES are the indie rock manifestation of this depressing trend." - Lias Saoudi (Fat White Family)
idk about you guys but this felt like one of those apology videos famous people make after being cancelled when in reality it is just melon revisiting albums
i know this is an old video but i really appreciate the honesty here. all the losers in the comments claiming "death of the author" to justify their enjoyment of these albums are missing the point; sometimes an artist ruins their own art for you. with a platform like yours, it's both mature and responsible of you to admit these albums' vibes have changed in your eyes (ears?) i loved that KSG record when it dropped, but im also in that position where i don't think i'll really ever spin it again because of how sour it's optimistic energy is knowing kanye went on to do some really awful stuff
I feel like kanye is more forgivable because he has bipolar and hes kind of lost his mind. The personality at least presnted in his early music is a far cry from his current one. No where near as bad as sexual assault
I know what you mean about Ye but that just goes to show more about how he shouldn’t be allowed to have the platform and influence that he does. Stop the problem before it happens.
on the one hand-yes, sexual assault and manipulation is infinitely worse than spiraling with bipolar. on the other... not everyone who has bipolar spirals in the way that Ye has. I have bipolar and no one could tell when I'm having a manic episode unless I recognize it and say so (and I typically manage mine by just putting on music and laying in bed). some of us have far better control of it than others, which is not necessarily something I fault those who don't for-but it does mean that I'm very uncomfortable with painting it like everyone who has bipolar is this way, and that it's not incumbent on Ye to actually do his part in getting better.
@@MelMelodyWerner yes that is probably true and he definitely shouldn't still have a platform but people shouldn't feel bad for enjoying his music either
i hate everything that went down with daughters, like, i've been a huge fan since their grindy noisecore days, later "hell songs" has been one of my favorite albums for a long time and i was super excited about "you won't get what you want" coming out, because it's been forever since their last record. and i was excited about the exposure they got from your review. but when i read kristins statement i was disgusted and disappointed. so many great memories i had with their music turned sour. terrible dude, i wish all the best to kristin moving forward.
Do you feel the same about Arcade Fire now, last three records aside? I saw one of your TikToks where you were more negative on Funeral than in the past
It really sucks because this year I checked out Funeral for the first time and it really resonated with me, it's a brilliant album But yeah the allegations do make me not want to stream the music too much or go to a life show: it kinda sucks Same thing with Kanye
Daughters' album is dark. And now alas we know that alas, the singer's deranged behavior wasn't just a sort of unhinged moment, but a dark place he got in his guts. Still, as a weird paradox, trying in these years to come out from PTSD with therapy and meds, this album helped me to climb out from that black hole that was anhedonia. I don't know why the hell this happens. Maybe because I feel the oppressor again on my shoulder so I... kinda fight back? Damn. Still a 10 out of 10 record. Whoever says Daughters are the bastard sons of Jesus Lizard are totally right, but the ones who says Chat Pile are a good "substitute"... no, to me, it doesn't feel genuine or good enough, not able to get into them.
5:43 Melon dissing himself 😭😭. Was wondering why KSG had been absent on your most recent best hip hop albums lists, including the one with NFR. Thanks for the explanation 🍈!
The whole Daughters stuff is so heartbreaking. When YWGWYW came out, it was genuinely therapeutic for me. It was so perfect for letting out stress in an especially stressful time of my life. Now, knowing what we know, it feels like abuse from the perspective of the abuser which makes it difficult to engage with to say the least. Fuck Alexis Marshall. I wish nothing but the worst for him.
I've had a similar thing with Marilyn Manson over the past couple of years. It's easy to say separate the art from the artist but when the art in some ways reflects the bad behavior, its kinda impossible. Like that Daughter's record paints a picture of the kinda person he was and while KSG isn't as explicit, it's all about Ye's mental health struggles and the two are kinda linked.
Holy fucking shit. I'm not one for getting very involved in the lives of the celebrities I enjoy, so it's not uncommon for me to be blind sided by info about info pertaining to them. But knowing that Sinner Be Ready is influenced by experience with abuse is insane to me. Not surprising, it makes so much sense in retrospect, but as a fellow victim of abuse my deep love of that project takes on a whole new meaning to me. I'm genuinely at a loss for words
I think there is a genuine difference between art that can be considered offensive and an artist who is fundamentally a horrible human being. People often have to check their morality at the door with most form of celebrities and their art but when an artist crosses a certain line it does detract any enjoyment of that art (on an individual basis). In some more extreme examples, despite like some of their music and it being a whole band and not one individual, I cannot listen to Lost Prophets. Even tracks I used to particularly enjoy have been forever tainted because I cannot help but be reminded of what Ian Watkins did just in hearing his voice. Apply that to Kevin Spacey films etc.
I absolutely cannot go back to YWGWYW based on how closely the lyrics of the album meet the 'accusations', but I do think it's still a 10 (as if that actually matters). That album blew me away the first time I heard it and I loved it from before I saw your review. As for KSG, it was never a 10 but ultimately I think we're all waiting for Ye to either sincerely apologise or leave the public eye so we can remember him for the artist he was and not the arsehole he is. I’ve edited this to change how it came across as I really did not mean it to sound as awful as it clearly came across.
@@thegunn7526he has apologised for the slavery comments and the Taylor swift incident. But yeah it’s probably less likely for him to apologise for this
@DavidYrselfClean to say that it would be better for an artist to die for them to be remembered only for their art is such an awful take. it’s because of who they are/ were their art even exists
@@michaelbenham3603 yeah that’s a terrible take and I didn’t mean it in a apologise or die way, I don’t want Ye to die and I can’t articulate the way I did mean it without it sounding just as bad, so I’ve changed my comment. My bad.
Respect Fantano a lot for saying this. The 'separate the art from the artist' idea usually rings hollow, but in Kanye's case, I would argue the nosedive in the quality of his output post-KSG is quite reflective of his general behaviour.
I also think Kanye’s no longer able to create great, consistent longer form albums anymore, KSG was short and concise, Donda had great songs but so many duds from the length
YWGWYW was amazing. It instantly became my favorite album. I can't bring myself to listen anymore. It sucks. Still a great album that I'll never want to listen to again.
Buying a used CD or record is a great way to enjoy art without giving your money to a crappy person. But sometimes knowing the person behind it puts a new context behind the art that makes it less appealing too, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
@@ConnorHammond ????? or you can just listen to it for free and not pirate or do burned cds. who cares if you gave some million/billionaire $0.0006 from streaming. they’re perfectly fine with or without it.
Maybe he just has a bit of a deeper understanding of why he feels it is ok to classic review that album all these years later, in a way you just don't understand because you're so simple minded that you call him hypocrite before even actually asking
I relate to this. I wasn't a huge hip-hop fan by the time Kanye started to form his reputation, so when I did really get in the genre, I felt no draw to his work. I had a bunch of people who were longtime rap fans say "oh this Kanye album is great one of the best rap albums of all time" but I have always felt like I won't be able to set aside my dislike for him and just take the music at face value. Thank God I'm not a music critic who has to be up to date with all the big influential artists
i really respect the fact that fantano isnt afraid to take a stand on things like this especially since hes so popular and respected in the music scene even though he keeps his personal life private which i completely respect i have no doubt in my mind that fantano is a good person
This is pretty much how I feel about the prog-thrash metal band Vektor. The frontman was revealed to have domestically abused his now-ex girlfriend for years and was a factor in the band going on hiatus, and when the band “got back together”, only the frontman and another guitarist remained with everyone else being replaced. While I acknowledge that their music is/was amazing, I just don’t see myself listening to them anymore. I’m not drawn to their music like I was in the past.
Well John Lennon was known for being an abusive husband towards his first wife and then later on refusing to raise the child he gave birth to with that same wife, so I suppose we all should collectively stop bumping Abbey road, White album, Sgt. Peppers, Imagine, Double fantasy, Revolver, etc... for the rest of our lives
Whenever I think of the band, I think of this part of the statement from DiSanto's wife: "I’m sorry to any Vektor fans - I’ve experienced some of my favorite music ruined by harsh truths about fallible people, and now I’m wracked with guilt, feeling like I might be taking something away by speaking out." Kind of heartbreaking. And despite that, I can't help but get a bad taste in my mouth from the music.
actually a very mature response to both of these situations. alexis and the rest of daughters essentially ignoring the allegations and evidence is so damning and it leaves me with no interest in listening to their music
always sucks when someone in a band (ESPECIALLY the vocalist, hard to replace) does something terrible cause they’re only a part of the band. everyone else gets the band/music they put so much time, passion, and money into ruined. it costs them so many listeners and money, including the label. it’s such a shame, screws over everyone else involved and they don’t deserve that. i don’t hear enough people talking about this
I still think that Kids See Ghosts has aged incredibly well as a record for Cudi outside of his relationship with Kanye and him calling him dinosaur and shit, from his part man decided to make one the most amazing artistic statements at the time to recover through the power of music from all of the shit that made him write Speedin Bullet 2 Heaven on the first place, it's still a super inspirational album on his side Now on Kanye's side it's just dissapointing after his behaviour, hope that he redeems himself in a much deeper way than Runaway or Jay-Z' 4:44 this time instead of dropping the biggest 0/10 possible
For me I won't stop listening to Daughters because they are a band, not an Alexis Marshall solo project. I don't blame the rest of the band for distancing themselves and going on hiatus. I don't feel like anyone deserves to be put on trial and receive punishment for Marshall's actions except Marshall himself.
Honestly, i really wish the rest of Daughters release an instrumental album in the future, maybe under a new moniker. The best part of YWGWYW is the compositions, Lex is mostly contextualizing the whole Hell the rest of the band unleash, yet if you take Lex out, the rest of the band is still doing insanely good music.
Unfortunately at least one other band member was at least somewhat complicit with Marshalls actions, Lingua Ignota tried to email one of them and even left a comment on his instagram page about it and he functionally told her Lol didn't read. It's horrible stuff : /
@@nimboppable123 It is. I didn't hear anything about what you are referring to. I don't know, I'm still conflicted about enjoying art from certain people. I don't want to put money in their pockets or see them get away with serious crimes, but I can't just stop listening to Daughters because their music (not lyrics) have become a part of me, and no one wants to block a part of themselves just because some of the behavior of some asshole who released the songs in the first place. It's also frustrating how much people might judge you for still liking a certain artist. People need to understand that continuing to listen to Daughters, Ye, Michael Jackson, R. Kelly, etc. is a personal choice and you can still enjoy music while agreeing that the artist who's work you love belongs in prison. It's not the artist you love- unless you happen to know them personally- but their work.
YOU FORGOT THAT KIDS SEE GHOSTS IS ALSO AND MOSTLY A Kid Cudi ALBUM. WITHOUT HIM THE ALBUM IS NOT WHAT IT IS, KANYE SAID BAD THINGS WHY SHOULD CUDI BE DISGREGARDED FOR THIS???
I agree with all of this, and probably unrelated, but I also feel this way with Ameer Vann's parts in Brockhampton's Saturation Trilogy. A lot of his verses from these albums have so much to do with being a bad person, doing bad things and relationships with women, and knowing the multiple abusive things several women revealed he did to them, and also knowing how he set up one of his bandmates' friend to be robbed, which was very explicitly addressed in one of the band's songs, along with the fact that to this very day, Ameer has never admitted to any of it or outwardly denies it all, I just cannot bring myself to listen to his parts. I still love the Saturation Trilogy, but nowadays I just listen to edited versions that remove Vann's verses and honestly just rather to listen to anything the band made after his removal.
Kid Cudi has become the first artist to receive a 0, a 10, and an "I dont care". Truly inspirational
He truly can do it all
What was the idc?
it was “The Heist” by Macklemore. Kid Cudi actually ghostwrote the whole thing in a revenge bid to steal a Grammy from Kendrick Lamar.
@teamkockroach4080 what did kendrick do to cudi?
@@TimWhitt Check the ending 9:16
I love how kanye and kid cudi collabed, made an album about mental health, etc and sang "I have my issues ain't that much I could do but peace is something that start with me" and then had beef between each other later .
Truly the duality of man
2 people who have never chosen peace lmao. Feuding with Lupe Fiasco is a direct line to the trash for me
@@TheJerbollupe was the one that never forgave cudi for his mental outburts and still calls him a bitch to this day
So what? The reason why they aren't friends anymore is because Kid Cudi has been friends with Pete Davidson for years and Kanye tried to ruin their friendship. You gotta drop people like that from your life.
@@TheJerbollupe was in the wrong.
I look at KSG as a "what could have been" where we got a kanye that was actually taking care of his mental health and asking forgiveness and taking accountability for his actions
True and considering that his future stuff aside of maybe Donda didn't ever get to that same level of Quality and lack of toxicity, it really feels like one last glimmer of College Dropout to Mbtf Kanye, the one we all loved, the sane charming but still confident Kanye
It's a sad album because of what he became really
That's what happens when you decide to not get any help for mental health and just really on religion instead, honestly all the yes-man around him that didn't do anything to help him deserve just as much ire as he does
@@andrei11drhe abandoned his religion now and is arguably the craziest he’s ever been 🤷♂️
@@PINE1079his hitler comments were directly religious
It sounds like they’re still 10’s for you but you have no desire to listen to them again or think about them again. I feel that way with several albums I’ve really loved over the years.
This is the best take
Are they really a 10 if you don't feel like listening to them ever again.
That's why I feel like some music listeners really get caught up in the moment, they're not objective and it's fine to a degree. But saying stuff like 'this album is an instant classic' or ' this album is perfect, no skips' tends to be a hyperbole alot and never really pans out as soon as a 2 or 3 months later when it's not even in that persons rotation anymore .
@@mxchael_0385 well the difference here is that his desire to not listen to KSG specifically anymore is coming from factors outside of the music/album itself not because he got sick or tired of it. I guess if you REALLY wanted to you could say the outside events are apart of KSG and directly change the meaning of the lyrics/message but IDRC. He makes it sound like if kanye and kid cudi died or vanished from social media entirely after KSG released he would listen to it as much as any other album he thinks is a 10
@surdukks2219 yh but so what, I love the weeknd, Jhené aiko, j cole etc. If they got arrested for a murder or sexual assault or fraud idc, there's some songs I will still listen to regardless.
If its a 10/10 , you listen to it regardless cos it's just that good.
@@mxchael_0385it makes it fundamentally less enjoyable for me to listen to an album by a bad person. Because deep down I feel sorry for that bad person and wish they hadn’t done the bad things they did, so am thinking about that rather than just enjoying it even if it’s a good album.
This video released just as I was wondering why Kids See Ghosts wasn't included in his list of the best rap albums of the 2010s. Glad I might see an answer lol, didn't think I would
I can't remember exactly where (the end-of-year list for 2018, maybe?), but I'm pretty sure he's said that he's cooled on it since it released.
another reason is he probably didn't want to classify it strictly as a rap album it pulls from so many different genres
@@Hamid-ve6zwonly someone who only listens to rap would say this
@@totlyepicOn his albums of the decade list, KSG got 7th, while Charli and This Is Happening, which both got 9's, got 6th and 5th respectively.
Literallly yessss! Probably exactly why he made this
Kids See Ghosts and Daughters both getting 10s was the Barbenheimer of 2018.
Doom Eternal x Animal Crossing
The biggest thing for me with YWGWYW is it's so hard to separate this particular piece of art from the actions of it's writer. Paranoia, aggression, addiction, nihilism. These are things he was accused of doing to a person. I think that's what makes it harder to listen to, for me, than KSG.
@@justsomejusstsome8994weird ass thing to say
@@maurice7002 Yea it kinda is lol Ima delete that
Who did he do that to
@@maurice7002 what did he say
@@MegaJayboy17 Lingua Ignota
100% understand anyone who refuses to listen to the Daughters record, but can we PLEASE stop this narrative that's been grafted onto the album retroactively? That "the writing was on the wall" and that only a sick fuck could have made such dark music. Implying that only evil people can make art depicting evil is conservative pearl-clutching and a gross and damaging misrepresentation of extreme/dark art.
Totally agree, it's so close-minded, it'd be like harassing an actor in real life because they're good at playing villainous characters
besides, if people are not gonna listen to Daughters just for that reason, they better not listen to 99% of music made by people tied to Epstein, Drake and Diddy.
I think all art comes from somewhere within the creator that is why it is impossible to seperate the art from the artist. To say that nothing that Daughters made came from within Alexis’s own heart is a little childish
@@bigchungus8287 people always forget that great art often comes from disturbed minds
the outrage is all performative too. you don't see anyone boycotting any artist that's been affiliated to diddy but whatever.
I'm not surprised about Daughters at all, though this is my first time hearing about it. I remember seeing them in a small venue around 2008. The singer was groping women's breasts. There was no indication of sexual assault. But it's not something you usually see at a punk/indie gig for a reason, and left people uncomfortable. I've had weird vibes about that dude ever since their music came out, and I do like that last album they did.
Sounds like R Kelly
Arent you lucky that you used to get out of your middleclass suburban home! Did your Dad give you 40bucks to go out that weekend? Did you ask for a refund because you were so offended? Lucky you didnt go to see GGAllin and cop a turd to the face methinks
And that video of him around the same time I think, it's on RUclips, of Alexis pulling "it" out and wrapping it around the microphone stand and stuff lmao. Then fleeing because someone called the cops and the entire band is left sitting there like haha alright I guess that happened, and the set was over.
@@imrippingthefuckingheadoff i saw him do this in a coffee shop in teh middle of rural illinois playing to a crowd of like 10 people tops. maybe 2003? whatever it was a good set.
Groping tits and signing them, is common with all bands. From Gene Simmons to Kanye, its par for the course. Now saying your husband graped you, yet you stayed in the relationship and have millions of dollars to sue him....is hard to believe. Especially when you see she has a giant chest tatt, and collects horror figurines...sounds like they were both fked. Doesn't matter either way, good music is good music.....so whatever it takes for them to get there.
you gave mbdtf a 10 and ksg is now a 6?!
W
It’s at least somewhat of a better take 😂😂
Rating KSG higher than Atrocity Exhibition by Danny Brown was an L take.
@@DskseaI kinda feel like they should both be a 9 imo
@@DskseaONGGGG
Daughters was so dark that I’m almost not surprised the lead creator is kinda evil
U think Lingua was innocent? Her music is pretty fucking dark too, she’s probably evil also. Abusive relationships are usually two ways.
I love the one meme from r/indieheadscirclejerk that was something like "Daughters fans separating the art from the artist while listening to an album made by an abuser about abusing people"
yeah like clearly he was not okay. the album spoke to me at the time because i was also not okay, but like... you know, in hindsight, there are different kinds of not okay, lol. it's one thing to be tortured and depressed but it's another thing to be basically writing songs about how fucked up and abusive you are. not directly, mind you, but when you view a LOT of the lyrics on that album through this lens.... things fall into place. he's probably not proud of his actions and it shows, and like yeah dude, you shouldnt be, but maybe dont write songs about it. get some help.
People get evil when they don't get what they want.
@@randomavenger3048 insensitive joke
Cudi being punished by Anthony for Kanye being crazy
That’s the worst part about it. Cudi has publicly stated he didn’t agree with Kanye’s bullshit and some of the best music he’s ever made gets looked down upon because of it
kristin's impact statement is one of the most harrowing things ive ever read. what she was put through was fucking horrific
ikr. its so sad. i hope shes doing ok
what happened
Wait, they are allegations, some claim they were both toxic so idk
@@recipoldinastyehhhhhhhh this is an L take lol
@@Viibeezzwell it's true tho, we may never know what really happen, just the two of them 🤷🏻♂️, but I really hope someone take FM to court so he can be investigated
I’d still consider KSG a ten. It’s Kanye and Cudi’s best work in a long time. They brought out the best in each other creating a unique portrait of their relationship and struggles. I have personal connection with that album being that it reignited my love for hip-hop and it got me through tough times. And lastly I’d it’s a Momento from a better time, a future that we could have but it all slipped away.
100% agree
Timestamps:
Preamble - 0:00
Album reviews - 9:11
Awesome comment
Do this on every channel video please 🥰
After kristin statement got published, I don't even understand how someone can listen to the Daughters album. I remember sometime around last year I wanted to listen to it and when I listened his lyrics and I put them in context, it went from being a dark and twisted experience to an unbearebly gross trip to the mind of an abuser
yeah and the fact that Kristin is dropping her stage name and completely reinventing her image just to distance herself from her trauma and the shit Al*xis put her thru speaks alot to how fucked up of a human that dude is
Those things are one and the same. Pretty hard to make a severely dark and twisted experience without being a severely dark and twisted person yourself. Pretty sure Michael Gira has allegations as well and his music is fucking horrifying.
I mean, independently of what the composer actually do in his life those were always real disturbing feelings one might have, if the person singing them actually feels them is kinda irrelevant to the morality of listening. I 100% get it if you're not comfortable listening to it anymore, but to me it keeps being a truly amazing work.
@@godnotavailable2094 While I agree that is logical that an album like that one had to come out of someone that reflects the expression, you can feel the same fear, paranoia and helplessness withouth necesarilly have commited the crime he commited. It's a fine line but it makes a difference (at least in the listening experiencie). Didn't know Michael Gira had allegations as well.
@@godnotavailable2094that’s kind of a stereotype. You can make challenging, dark music and not be abusive. Is there a correlation? Yes, but correlation and causation are not the same
Wow 5 whole years of me saying "I should check out that Daughters album soon, Fantano gave it a 10"
Definitely just leave it alone lol
fuck man Daughters (their first album when they were grindcore) was the band that first got me and my bff to bond when we were 16. I had no idea about any of the allegations until this video.
@@omgkthxbirip
@@G_FRE
@@mackereltacos2850 the entire album feels like this emoji
Is The Big Day still a 10???
11
It's just bigday/10, and always will be
you can really tell who is like 15/16 years old max by these kind of comments
This comment hits different after Chance's divorce 💀
I haven't listened to Daughters since I read Kristin's statement. Loved the music, but I feel incredibly uneasy knowing that they all knew what was going on and chose to look the other way.
Same thing here
I got into Daughters recently and loved them especially YWGWYW and their debut. Was crushed when I found out abt the allegations.
I relate to this when talking about slowthai’s UGLY from this year. Absolutely loved the record from its release and had it up pretty high in my favorite albums of the year. Then the allegations came out and because of how personal and deep that record was, what was happening on the outside in regards to the artist himself was very distracting and contradictory to everything he was expressing on UGLY. I have conflicted feelings on the record now until further updates are provided.
I agree with a lot of the comments here though, the separating the art from the artist argument definitely varies from case to case.
I feel the same way about UGLY as well. Loved the record, but as you said, once the allegations came out.. It really skews your experience with the record & how you feel about slowthai himself. Then again, the allegations were from a period of time before UGLY may have even been conceived/thought of. Perhaps His past caught up maybe when he was making honest efforts to be a better person? Who knows. I just hope none of it is true.
I totally agree. For some reason, with Slowthai & UGLY specifically, I really struggle to separate art of artist. It was my AOTY and on repeat for weeks when it came out, but since the charges/allegations have surfaced, I never listen to it. I even skip songs from it when they come on shuffle, it just makes me feel, icky?
Yet there are other artists I have no problem separating art from artist. Weird.
Yeah, I have trouble separating the art from the artist in slowthai’s case and I think that’s because before the allegations, I really liked his personality and related to him personally having grown up in a poorer environment in the UK, I wasn’t only attached to the art, but the artist himself and that makes me not want to listen to him anymore because it doesnt feel the same.
The allegations also make the opening line of HAPPY really gross which bothers me a lot
What were the slowthai allegations?
@@bigjuice2623 2 counts of r@pe
I had the same thing with Kanye but I've gotten back into him a decent bit, but man the daughters thing is a different level for me. Like I can't at all revisit the daughters record
This is the same take I have. The Alexis situation is on a whole different level. Kanye is fully to blame for his hateful behavior, and it has certainly has material consequences, but such unabashedly evil, life ruining and violent domestic abuse puts you far above any level of attention-seeking hate speech. The Ye situation has me torn about listening to his music sometimes, sure, but I could solidly never listen to YWGWYW again.
It’s probably because Kanye material I’d argue doesn’t have anything to do with the fucked up shit he’s done, but Daughters album quite literally have abusive lyrical content
@@littleguy8 I think that's a big part of it for sure. Plus a part of me wonders if Kanye says the dumb horrible things for attention and other crap but with daughters they did those disgusting things and the album in a way seems like they brag about it and it's just really weird.
@@Amaling does it though? I've looked through the lyrics and it just seems like abstract existential dread and regret. I guess it's people putting together why the singer feels that way to write what they did, but it doesn't exactly map one-to-one with any actual things that occurred...
Yeah, its a 10/10 for me, but after I read the impact statement I could never listen to it again.
When I first put on that Daughters album, I thought you were smoking crack to give it a 10 but after I listened to the whole thing from start to finish, I could see why you did.
Kids See Ghosts is my favorite Kanye shit ever. In my head, there exists an alternate reality where Kanye and Cudi are the greatest duo of all time.
It's a transmission from the Good Timeline for sure, I feel like we've been in the Bad Timeline for about a decade now.
Yes, and Travis ACTUALLY fulfills his role as the rightful successor to the thrown 😂😂
@@robbed1994*throne
@@hzrnvm_ 🙏
It's not that I can't separate art from the artist and this past year I enjoyed listening to some of Kanye's songs but it's just not the same as it was before, it's especially true for his last few albums that focused on mental health, family & faith. it's much easier to have a good time listening to his classics as it completely feels like something from the distant past that has been solidified as a classic.
As I have always put it, there’s a difference between Kayne West, and Ye…
@@mikekasabion kayne
how??💀 yall are acting like kanye is trying to end the world, kanye has and will always be controversial and if you can’t handle that listen to someone else
@@apostlepthat is what they are doing lol?
I had the same response to the Daughters record. Loved it when it came out, but man, it's just... hard to separate it from the artist when its so personal and knowing how bad his actions were. If it was some rando member that they kicked out after the accusations, that's one thing, but when it's the lead singer and frontman... that's pretty much the end of that. I actually went through this before with a Korean band called Drug Restaurant. They had a super cool and moody rock sound, and I thought they were gonna be one of my new favorite Korean artists... until it came out that their lead singer was heavily involved with the Burning Sun scandal from a few years back. Kept my CD just for history's sake like I did with the Daughters album, but I haven't listened to them since.
Yep
To some somgs i still listen,but more as a reminder and as some kind of blunt and disgusting confession, and straight after that, as a let's say "fitting" answer i listen to lingua ignota. It's perverse, but it's a perfect example of what humans are capable of,or simply what they are.
City song, Satan in the wait, the flammable man, and of course guest house will never leave my playlists. But, I also listen to Charles Manson unironically. If you choose to not listen that is your right and I totally get it though. We all have our own paths to plow thru. Carry on
Daughters is honestly one of the few bands I can separate the art from the artist. And honestly I don't blame anyone that can't, the serious allegatitons combined with the many questionable lyrical undertones that in retrospective have aged horribly............ But man, even with that YWGWYW and S/T still hold a special place in my heart and are albums I still listen to this day. I don't think I will ever find band that really makes take all the anger out while making me question my existence like Daughters.
Till this day I'm still horrified by Marshall's action, but I'm not gonna pretend like He isn't one of my fav frontman musically ever
I've been a fan of Daughters since 2003, but after hearing about everything about Alexis and all his terrible behavior, I can't listen to their music in his conscience anymore. After reading Lingua Ignota's writing about everything she went through, I haven't been able to touch anything by them since
Can’t believe it’s been 5 years. Feels like kids see ghosts came out yesterday.
kids see ghosts sometimes kids see ghosts
I listened to it for the first time last year (I know, I'm late) its still my favorite album of all time.
The Daughters album is straight up masterpiece, still couldn't listen anything that aggressive, nihilist and at the same time awesome and productionwise perfect.
KSG but by Nav and DaBaby called Nav Sees DaBaby and it’s a picture of Nav looking at a young black child
That would go hard
You’ll always be a 10 to me Anthony
🍆🚴♂️
Light 6
glazing
Kanye really out Morrissey'd Morrissey in the 'how much of a khunt can you be in comparison to the greatness of your music' stakes
Slowthai is also someone whose music is difficult to listen to now. I'd enjoyed his three albums, but some of the content feels very real in light of his current situation.
Cant believe you raised your score for both of those albums to 20s! That’s why your the best critic of the century :D
hello st4t1c.
you're*, right?
omg ive seen u on aoty hiiiiiii
niche internet microcelebrity spotted
no way its static
I think the daughters record is unique because the lyrics are so frightening evil and insane and finding out there not like a extra character there actual actions of Alexis and it turns the album from unsettling to outright evil and disgusting.
ywgwyw is a masterpiece, but can't bring myself to listen to it anymore.
Chat Pile and Model/Actriz are good substitutes for Daughters.
Chat Pile has nearly filled the noise rock shaped hole in my heart
I can confirm the guys in chat pile are the sweetest men ever.
I love Chat Pile but it's just not comparable
Christ on a stick my babushka were your parents siblings? The vocal styles are where the similarities begin and end
KEN Mode is another band if you want that sort of sound
I've always felt like an apology is kind of an insincere gesture. Applogies can be faked. Sincerity can be faked. I do agree that its important to acknowledge ones own wrongdoings but hell man think about somebody like Chris D'elia's apology. It seemed way sincere but clearly it sort of made way for him to keep doing all that heinous shit
It sucks that you think that because they shouldn’t be lol. Just goes to show how scummy celebs are i guess
Artists are no more broken than the rest of us. The difference is that they acknowledge and express their brokenness
What does Melon mean by "formerly known as" Lingua Ignota? Is she done with that project or something?
Yes, she now makes music as Reverend Kristin Michael Hayter. Lingua Ignota as a project is put to bed iirc
Honestly incredibly well spoken, Anthony. More people should be like you in terms of this.
There might be a curse that Tony gives to his 10/10. Zach Hill might kill somebody soon
I think there was some recent gossip surrounding Andy Morin and his ex-girlfriend, but it didn't really turn into anything. Kinda like that Spreadie Gibbs shit. Hopefully it checks the box for DG and we never have to hear some awful shit
I understand what you mean but KSG was not Kanye's album. I would argue it was more Cudi's as I felt it was more focused on Cudi journey and struggles with mental health. I know kanye is in a bad spot in his career, but Cudi should not suffer especially since he and Kanye dont have a relationship anymore. listen to the album man.
You Won't Get What You Want actually spoke to me more after the allegations came out. i mean i've never listened to it and never will, but the title has so much more meaning to me now given that what i want is for women to not be fucking abused or assaulted
but if you haven't listen to the album how do you come to conclusions like that, I'm sure could be valid for ya but that doesn't make any sense
What a nothing burger of a comment, just keep quiet holy shit
The title and art for that album was what made me interested in it to begin with. I remember Anthony unpackaging the vinyl only to unfold an empty black gatefold, before commenting "You really won't get what you want." I thought that art decision was so clever...
yeah. the kanye/cudi situation makes my stomach turn because kids see ghosts is one of my favorite albums of all time
i’ve never understood your insane hype of kids see ghosts, it’s great but no more than an 8 for me. you won’t get what you want is still one of the most haunting, surprising, dark, and catchy albums i’ve ever heard. 10/10
I agree, feel the love is much stronger than really all the other tracks to me
@@WilliamSussmanyes, every talks about reborn but feel the love is such a banger
I always understood the 10 rating. It's flawless for me. Every instrumental is incredible and it pulls from such a wide range of genres in a really creative way with such great execution. Song topics are personal and conceptual, Kanye and Cudi both have amazing performances, rapping and singing, and the features are great. Best thing Kanye's ever done in my opinion.
I always thought the album doesn’t hit hard enough. With more distortion and powerful bass lines the album’s aggressive nature would come to the front. I listen to a song like freeee and I’m left wanting more. If it had a kind of Pinkerton/ ITAOTS type distortion on drums I would understand the hype. Overall good songs but mid production.
It’s pretty sad knowing that these two records received critical acclaim, got 10s, and both are surrounded by people that have done such terrible things. Truly disappointing
ok?
@@peoplepersonYou added less to the conversation than they did. You should be more direct. Do you disagree? Thing it shouldn't matter?
@@user-us2cl5lr7z Bro kanye has a history of complaining about racism enacted on him and the black community, but now hateful behaviour is just some words? It's so funny how fast ya'll become racist just because an artist you like makes music lmao. You have the moral backbone of a squid, degenerate behaviour.
I mean its not the first time it happens and wont be the last, Lou Reed was terrible and mysogine but TVU and Nico is a masterpiece, David Bowie had intercourse with a minor and made 10/10 albums
i have news for you that more than two amazing albums have been made by terrible people
Can i just say the melon has one of my favorite communities online. The discussion of whether or not you can seperate art from the artist, financially supporting said artists and whether or not fantano had an obligation to no longer platform these artist is an incredibly nuanced and complicated subject and these talking points so often get conflated with each other
its just so refreshing to see a discussion about this subject without the bad faith and straw man arguments
Sorry, no, you can't say
no matter how good i may still find YWGWYW, it’s fuck daughters forever for what their lead singer did to lingua ignota. whole album soured for me when i heard about that shit
Kid Cudi: What he saying fuck me for?
I also can't listen to either anymore. And I was a huge Daughters fan. But people think it's like suddenly you go "Nope! They did something bad and I have to stop listening or I'll look bad too!" No. I have values and things that I know are straight up unforgivable. We all fuck up sometimes. But being antisemitic or violent to women isn't just a fuck up. Even if they made apologies and did things to somehow back track their actions people are not obligated to give them another chance just because they're artists. I know plenty of people who, like myself, have gone through darkness and find release by expressing artistically. Nothing wrong with that. But Alexis chose to also make his darkness everyone else's problem in and that's where I have to say "fuck you".
Get off your high horse you aren't better than anyone else
@@User-b9q2z I can bet you they are better than Alexis
how can you not listen ksg
I can’t stomach listening to Daughters after what happened, as much as I love their music. The lyrical content is just so directly tied to the behavior that I just can’t ignore it
Respectfully disagree. Not being able to enjoy music cause of what the person who made it did is some of the softest shit I've ever heard of
@@ultra3755I can't listen to Lostprophets anymore because it reminds me of what Ian Watkins did, and I don't want to think about that. I think that's perfectly reasonable, as is not wanting to listen to Daughters for similar reasons
@@vinceeager8553 if certain music makes you think of something that makes you uncomfortable therefore you can't listen to it I can somewhat understand. I just think the idea of "omg this artist did something terrible I'm never listening to that awful music again🤮" is cancerous.
Differently gives a whole new level of unease listening to the record now
@@ultra3755normalize being soft.
Thanks for speaking on this. Kristin’s impact statement about Alexis is so horrific I don’t care to listen to any Daughters’ material ever again, and I was once a big fan.
I’ve filled the Daughters void pretty easily though, with bands with a similar energy and sound like The Jesus Lizard, Chat Pile, and The Birthday Party (who were obviously a huge influence on Daughters). If anyone has any other recs comment 👇
I was a fan of Daughters for close to 20 years, and then I heard about the allegations and read Kristin's writings and interviews about what she went through, and I haven't listened to them since. Hearing and reading about her ordeal made me feel sick to my stomach. I sincerely do hope she's been able to find healing after all the horror she had to go through
I bet anyone who was a fan of YWGWYW would like at least a couple of songs off of Model/Actriz's debut album Dogsbody that came out earlier this year. Similar noisy intensity yet insanely danceable too. I'd actually say that in my experience Model/Actriz was a better live experience than Daughters
@@kelleyreeves965 dogsbody is so good, completely agree
i recommend people actually read the full statement by kristin. It's pretty nuts, i can't imagine ever enjoying listening to someone like that (daughters frontman)
If you like The Jesus Lizard as well as Daughters' early math/grindcore stuff, I highly recommend you to listen to Dazzling Killmen and Craw. You may also like Japanese prog/noise drummer Tatsuya Yoshida who's been a part of the noise scene for a long time, I recommend you check his projects such as Ruins, Koenjihyakkei and Korekyojinn. These bands are unique for incorporating progressive instrumental palettes over the base noise composition in a very interesting way.
I'm feeling the same way as slowthai
What u mean?
@@Zeldamarie1482 he had 2 rape allegations which he said that he wasn't guilty, but I have yet to see some proof in the matter
@@kamaujayjay9556 oh nah, cmon not slowthai
@@kamaujayjay9556you said it yourself, you have yet to see any proof. Why would you feel that way about him then? Seems a bit premature. False allegations are far too common these days that my perceptions don't change until I see valid evidence. Even then, my opinions on the music itself wouldn't change, but it certainly would on the artist as a person.
@@thebohr11 I guess I'm thinking too much about it
Good take, i saw Daughters live on the ywgwyw tour and bought a shirt and I don't even feel comfortable wearing it in public anymore due to this shit. Its a really awkward and uncomfortable situation as a fan.
Same, I have two Daughters shirts that I'd like to get rid of but am concerned that I wouldn't be able to find someone to give them to
@@kelleyreeves965 I just use mine as a sleep shirt now. Fuck Alexis Marshall, sucks for his band mates too but theyve been awfully quiet on this whole thing so idk
@@kelleyreeves965 just read Kristen hayters full 7000 word statement and decided to throw the shirt in the trash shits really bad . As a survivor of mental and physical abuse myself i can't feel right wearing a shirt platforming someone like that.
I feel this way about Neurosis, another extreme band I adored, with an undeniably bad person in it.
I agree with everything said in the video. However, as a Swans Fan, I think it’s time you turn your attention to Micheal Gira. He raped a collaborator in about 2001 or so. When discussing the situation, he acknowledged the incident as a ‘mistake,’ but insisted that the act was consensual despite the victim continually asserting that it was not. Maybe you just have t heard of the allegations, but it’s the reason I never feel comfortable listening to Swans’ releases from after the 90s.
I don't think there's really enough on Gira for it to be quite the same thing. I'd need more substantial allegations to come out from other sources than Larkin for it to really negatively affect my listening experience, personally
Yes! The pinnacle of Fantanos taste and towering over his hundreds or 1000s other album review is so good it’s unlistenable at the end of the day. By him.
6:11 I'm pretty sure that he was angry with him for sleeping with his wife straight after they divorced, and began integrating himself into his life and spending time with his children but hey, that's just me.
People really overblow the Daughters drama, you guys aren't gonna like it when you discover about every artist with Diddy ties.
Was curious about your updated perspective on YWGWYW, definitely can’t listen to Daughters with the same ear now myself
ive had existential crisis back in 2018 and its same now, dude being accused of something changes absolutely nothing for me, i dont even known the guy, im here for the music, ofc its horrible what he's done ,but i relate to pointlessness and existential dread that album is about
this video is the representation of saying "i separate the artist from the person" and then immediately doing the damn opposite. you talked nonsense for nine minutes. i love you anthony, and i think you're a really smart guy, but sometimes you say a lot of bullshit just for the sake of it
This doesn’t change the fact that IDLES’ “Joy As An Act Of Resistance” is the best album of 2018 and the best album of the decade.
"The group claim that vulnerability is their armour, where exactly is all of this vulnerability? It’s as if the lyrics have been generated by a Guardian designed algorithm, every red button issue of the day systematically addressed in the most predictable way imaginable. Nothing all that personal is ever laid on the table. I don’t feel like I learn anything about Joe Talbot by listening to Joe Talbot. The easiest way to gain popularity online of course, is simply to regurgitate what everybody else already believes. It’s in this way we’ve ended up in a freefall where meaningful self-expression is concerned. Terrified of making a wrong step in a world where people are regularly hung out to dry for not having the right beliefs, the right points of view, we have left ourselves marooned in a monoculture, and I purport that IDLES are the indie rock manifestation of this depressing trend."
- Lias Saoudi (Fat White Family)
@@heckicusdoomicuswizardus1382 🤓☝
idk about you guys but this felt like one of those apology videos famous people make after being cancelled when in reality it is just melon revisiting albums
i know this is an old video but i really appreciate the honesty here. all the losers in the comments claiming "death of the author" to justify their enjoyment of these albums are missing the point; sometimes an artist ruins their own art for you.
with a platform like yours, it's both mature and responsible of you to admit these albums' vibes have changed in your eyes (ears?)
i loved that KSG record when it dropped, but im also in that position where i don't think i'll really ever spin it again because of how sour it's optimistic energy is knowing kanye went on to do some really awful stuff
I feel like kanye is more forgivable because he has bipolar and hes kind of lost his mind. The personality at least presnted in his early music is a far cry from his current one. No where near as bad as sexual assault
I know what you mean about Ye but that just goes to show more about how he shouldn’t be allowed to have the platform and influence that he does. Stop the problem before it happens.
comparing what they did is crazy. kanye just said his opinion. the daughters singer made someone's life a nightmare
on the one hand-yes, sexual assault and manipulation is infinitely worse than spiraling with bipolar.
on the other... not everyone who has bipolar spirals in the way that Ye has. I have bipolar and no one could tell when I'm having a manic episode unless I recognize it and say so (and I typically manage mine by just putting on music and laying in bed). some of us have far better control of it than others, which is not necessarily something I fault those who don't for-but it does mean that I'm very uncomfortable with painting it like everyone who has bipolar is this way, and that it's not incumbent on Ye to actually do his part in getting better.
@@MelMelodyWerner yes that is probably true and he definitely shouldn't still have a platform but people shouldn't feel bad for enjoying his music either
thank you Anthony - important to have your voice in these discussions
The daughters record made me feel icky in a way that few albums ever could, far too visceral of an experience to separate art from artist.
I mean, it’s not like Alexis didn’t sound like a monster on that album before.
I still think Daytona was the best album from the “Wyoming sessions.”
Best take in this comment section
Can you do a video on albums that have become tens since when you reviewed it
Charli and atrocity exhibition are probably in that list
i hate everything that went down with daughters, like, i've been a huge fan since their grindy noisecore days, later "hell songs" has been one of my favorite albums for a long time and i was super excited about "you won't get what you want" coming out, because it's been forever since their last record. and i was excited about the exposure they got from your review. but when i read kristins statement i was disgusted and disappointed. so many great memories i had with their music turned sour. terrible dude, i wish all the best to kristin moving forward.
Do you feel the same about Arcade Fire now, last three records aside? I saw one of your TikToks where you were more negative on Funeral than in the past
It really sucks because this year I checked out Funeral for the first time and it really resonated with me, it's a brilliant album
But yeah the allegations do make me not want to stream the music too much or go to a life show: it kinda sucks
Same thing with Kanye
@@finnthekreatormusic5397 I love all of their records,. absolutely my favourite band. It's rough
Daughters' album is dark.
And now alas we know that alas, the singer's deranged behavior wasn't just a sort of unhinged moment, but a dark place he got in his guts. Still, as a weird paradox, trying in these years to come out from PTSD with therapy and meds, this album helped me to climb out from that black hole that was anhedonia.
I don't know why the hell this happens. Maybe because I feel the oppressor again on my shoulder so I... kinda fight back? Damn.
Still a 10 out of 10 record.
Whoever says Daughters are the bastard sons of Jesus Lizard are totally right, but the ones who says Chat Pile are a good "substitute"... no, to me, it doesn't feel genuine or good enough, not able to get into them.
5:43 Melon dissing himself 😭😭. Was wondering why KSG had been absent on your most recent best hip hop albums lists, including the one with NFR. Thanks for the explanation 🍈!
The whole Daughters stuff is so heartbreaking. When YWGWYW came out, it was genuinely therapeutic for me. It was so perfect for letting out stress in an especially stressful time of my life. Now, knowing what we know, it feels like abuse from the perspective of the abuser which makes it difficult to engage with to say the least. Fuck Alexis Marshall. I wish nothing but the worst for him.
I've had a similar thing with Marilyn Manson over the past couple of years. It's easy to say separate the art from the artist but when the art in some ways reflects the bad behavior, its kinda impossible. Like that Daughter's record paints a picture of the kinda person he was and while KSG isn't as explicit, it's all about Ye's mental health struggles and the two are kinda linked.
Holy fucking shit. I'm not one for getting very involved in the lives of the celebrities I enjoy, so it's not uncommon for me to be blind sided by info about info pertaining to them. But knowing that Sinner Be Ready is influenced by experience with abuse is insane to me. Not surprising, it makes so much sense in retrospect, but as a fellow victim of abuse my deep love of that project takes on a whole new meaning to me. I'm genuinely at a loss for words
I think there is a genuine difference between art that can be considered offensive and an artist who is fundamentally a horrible human being. People often have to check their morality at the door with most form of celebrities and their art but when an artist crosses a certain line it does detract any enjoyment of that art (on an individual basis). In some more extreme examples, despite like some of their music and it being a whole band and not one individual, I cannot listen to Lost Prophets. Even tracks I used to particularly enjoy have been forever tainted because I cannot help but be reminded of what Ian Watkins did just in hearing his voice. Apply that to Kevin Spacey films etc.
I absolutely cannot go back to YWGWYW based on how closely the lyrics of the album meet the 'accusations', but I do think it's still a 10 (as if that actually matters). That album blew me away the first time I heard it and I loved it from before I saw your review. As for KSG, it was never a 10 but ultimately I think we're all waiting for Ye to either sincerely apologise or leave the public eye so we can remember him for the artist he was and not the arsehole he is.
I’ve edited this to change how it came across as I really did not mean it to sound as awful as it clearly came across.
Sincerely apologize or die is absolutely crazy bro
this is ye we’re talking about he’s never going to explicitly apologize
@@thegunn7526he has apologised for the slavery comments and the Taylor swift incident. But yeah it’s probably less likely for him to apologise for this
@DavidYrselfClean to say that it would be better for an artist to die for them to be remembered only for their art is such an awful take. it’s because of who they are/ were their art even exists
@@michaelbenham3603 yeah that’s a terrible take and I didn’t mean it in a apologise or die way, I don’t want Ye to die and I can’t articulate the way I did mean it without it sounding just as bad, so I’ve changed my comment. My bad.
Respect Fantano a lot for saying this. The 'separate the art from the artist' idea usually rings hollow, but in Kanye's case, I would argue the nosedive in the quality of his output post-KSG is quite reflective of his general behaviour.
I also think Kanye’s no longer able to create great, consistent longer form albums anymore, KSG was short and concise, Donda had great songs but so many duds from the length
YWGWYW was amazing. It instantly became my favorite album. I can't bring myself to listen anymore. It sucks. Still a great album that I'll never want to listen to again.
We should’ve taken Ocean Song as a warning lol
@@tackycardiatbh the whole album is a warning
@@_synthicydetruuuue
@@polarhero57 what a fucking braindead response
Buying a used CD or record is a great way to enjoy art without giving your money to a crappy person. But sometimes knowing the person behind it puts a new context behind the art that makes it less appealing too, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
You should meet my mate, Pirate Bay
bro imagine pirating free music lmao@@ConnorHammond
@@pannnella Yeah, because buying a CD is free music 👏
@@ConnorHammond ????? or you can just listen to it for free and not pirate or do burned cds. who cares if you gave some million/billionaire $0.0006 from streaming. they’re perfectly fine with or without it.
Didn't Anthony do a classic review of The Queen is Dead this year? The hypocrisy is crazy
Morality is always selective it seems. People are never consistent.
Maybe he just has a bit of a deeper understanding of why he feels it is ok to classic review that album all these years later, in a way you just don't understand because you're so simple minded that you call him hypocrite before even actually asking
I relate to this. I wasn't a huge hip-hop fan by the time Kanye started to form his reputation, so when I did really get in the genre, I felt no draw to his work. I had a bunch of people who were longtime rap fans say "oh this Kanye album is great one of the best rap albums of all time" but I have always felt like I won't be able to set aside my dislike for him and just take the music at face value. Thank God I'm not a music critic who has to be up to date with all the big influential artists
i really respect the fact that fantano isnt afraid to take a stand on things like this especially since hes so popular and respected in the music scene even though he keeps his personal life private which i completely respect i have no doubt in my mind that fantano is a good person
i find myself disagreeing with the majority of what he says outside of music, but i can respect his right to express his opinion on his platforms
Psychedelic Rap is the future of Hip-Hop
It's literally been around since the late 80s, how is it "the future" ?
@@andrei11dr mid 70s actually
Both these albums will forever be heavy in my rotation.
Okay 🤷🏻♀️ No one said they couldn’t be
@persuasivebarrier2419what a stupid comment 🙄
My thing is what other song am I supposed to use to say Good Morning to my people very valid takes!
This is pretty much how I feel about the prog-thrash metal band Vektor. The frontman was revealed to have domestically abused his now-ex girlfriend for years and was a factor in the band going on hiatus, and when the band “got back together”, only the frontman and another guitarist remained with everyone else being replaced. While I acknowledge that their music is/was amazing, I just don’t see myself listening to them anymore. I’m not drawn to their music like I was in the past.
Well John Lennon was known for being an abusive husband towards his first wife and then later on refusing to raise the child he gave birth to with that same wife, so I suppose we all should collectively stop bumping Abbey road, White album, Sgt. Peppers, Imagine, Double fantasy, Revolver, etc... for the rest of our lives
Whenever I think of the band, I think of this part of the statement from DiSanto's wife:
"I’m sorry to any Vektor fans - I’ve experienced some of my favorite music ruined by harsh truths about fallible people, and now I’m wracked with guilt, feeling like I might be taking something away by speaking out."
Kind of heartbreaking. And despite that, I can't help but get a bad taste in my mouth from the music.
This still doesn't explain why you listed LostProphets as your favorite musical act of the 2000s
Edgy boi over here
Ian Watkins is a fucking monster.
What Ian did was much worse than what Alexis did. (Both are evil, I am not downplaying.)
Day 6 of asking for Pink Floyd tier list
actually a very mature response to both of these situations. alexis and the rest of daughters essentially ignoring the allegations and evidence is so damning and it leaves me with no interest in listening to their music
always sucks when someone in a band (ESPECIALLY the vocalist, hard to replace) does something terrible cause they’re only a part of the band. everyone else gets the band/music they put so much time, passion, and money into ruined. it costs them so many listeners and money, including the label. it’s such a shame, screws over everyone else involved and they don’t deserve that. i don’t hear enough people talking about this
Sometimes people blame the entire band, saying things like "they should've known," which I think is totally unfair.
i rlly hope sadler and jon make a new band cus to me it was the sound they had that made daughters an amazing band
Looking good, dude. Keep it up!
That Daughters record means so much to me-I simply can't let it go. But fuck Alexis, man.
I still think that Kids See Ghosts has aged incredibly well as a record for Cudi outside of his relationship with Kanye and him calling him dinosaur and shit, from his part man decided to make one the most amazing artistic statements at the time to recover through the power of music from all of the shit that made him write Speedin Bullet 2 Heaven on the first place, it's still a super inspirational album on his side
Now on Kanye's side it's just dissapointing after his behaviour, hope that he redeems himself in a much deeper way than Runaway or Jay-Z' 4:44 this time instead of dropping the biggest 0/10 possible
For me I won't stop listening to Daughters because they are a band, not an Alexis Marshall solo project. I don't blame the rest of the band for distancing themselves and going on hiatus. I don't feel like anyone deserves to be put on trial and receive punishment for Marshall's actions except Marshall himself.
Honestly, i really wish the rest of Daughters release an instrumental album in the future, maybe under a new moniker. The best part of YWGWYW is the compositions, Lex is mostly contextualizing the whole Hell the rest of the band unleash, yet if you take Lex out, the rest of the band is still doing insanely good music.
Unfortunately at least one other band member was at least somewhat complicit with Marshalls actions, Lingua Ignota tried to email one of them and even left a comment on his instagram page about it and he functionally told her Lol didn't read. It's horrible stuff : /
@@nimboppable123 It is. I didn't hear anything about what you are referring to. I don't know, I'm still conflicted about enjoying art from certain people. I don't want to put money in their pockets or see them get away with serious crimes, but I can't just stop listening to Daughters because their music (not lyrics) have become a part of me, and no one wants to block a part of themselves just because some of the behavior of some asshole who released the songs in the first place. It's also frustrating how much people might judge you for still liking a certain artist. People need to understand that continuing to listen to Daughters, Ye, Michael Jackson, R. Kelly, etc. is a personal choice and you can still enjoy music while agreeing that the artist who's work you love belongs in prison. It's not the artist you love- unless you happen to know them personally- but their work.
kids cant see ghosts anymore :(
2016 was weird man especially with melon out there supporting his favourite orange guy
YOU FORGOT THAT KIDS SEE GHOSTS IS ALSO AND MOSTLY A Kid Cudi ALBUM. WITHOUT HIM THE ALBUM IS NOT WHAT IT IS, KANYE SAID BAD THINGS WHY SHOULD CUDI BE DISGREGARDED FOR THIS???
I agree with all of this, and probably unrelated, but I also feel this way with Ameer Vann's parts in Brockhampton's Saturation Trilogy.
A lot of his verses from these albums have so much to do with being a bad person, doing bad things and relationships with women, and knowing the multiple abusive things several women revealed he did to them, and also knowing how he set up one of his bandmates' friend to be robbed, which was very explicitly addressed in one of the band's songs, along with the fact that to this very day, Ameer has never admitted to any of it or outwardly denies it all, I just cannot bring myself to listen to his parts.
I still love the Saturation Trilogy, but nowadays I just listen to edited versions that remove Vann's verses and honestly just rather to listen to anything the band made after his removal.
feel very similarly. i cant help but wince at a lot of Ameer's verses whenever i listen to any saturation stuff. its very off-putting