Just built a Sopwith triplane with my 8 year old daughter, old school balsa and tissue, I think we'll have a go at this on it as a drone guy, I have a lot of coreless motors, and much bigger ones too. Best information I've found thank you for your work and passion.
Thanks Ben! Wow, depending on what kit you built, that might be asking a lot of a capacitor drive! I suggest a geared drive to allow a larger prop than a direct drive...so you can get the prop tips to stick out past that cowling. BG has a geared 820 drive with a 5.5 inch prop which might work. Remember, these motors are designed for 1 lipo cell so when we run them on capacitors at 2.8 volts "burst" voltage there is only so much power there. Don't expect the kind of thrust you get from a similar motor in a quad. Best plan is to bench run your proposed setup and see if you have enough power before you install in a model. If a supercap doesn't do the trick, you still have the option of powering the motor with a single lipo, using a simple MOSFET timer. You'll get at least double the thrust of a supercap setup. I'm working on a video on how to make the timer for about 5 bucks. See video mentioning MOSFET TIMER in the title to see one in action. Good luck!! -Mike
Hey Mike and Richie, I’ve been away from RUclips ever since I got my medical pot approval in July. It was great to find this tutorial now that I’ve decided to partially re-enter earth’s atmosphere. I hope to begin building again using this information after my cap-plane fails this spring. Thanks and keep up the good work. Ron
Great to hear from you Ron! Richie and I were getting a little worried about you when you went MIA from the comment boards... he asked me a few times if I'd heard from you lately and he was getting ready to head out there with a couple of tracking dogs when I said I hadn't. He will be relieved when he hears that at least you had a good reason for going missing! Glad that you liked the video and that you're going to do some building. BTW did you ever see the first vid with Richie? He had a few beers and I was trying to make a serious video...you might get a kick out of it...turn on the closed captions so you don't miss Richie's comments. Take care Ron! ruclips.net/video/lWndUdyncUs/видео.html
Very useful - thanks. I saw a few videos where people were charging up a 2.7v supercap directly with an 18650 battery which sounded a bit dodgy to me. I'll now build up something like your charging system.
Fantastic video, Mike. An easy to understand and apparently comprehensive introduction to super capacity flying. This seems like an easy and budget friendly way to enjoy flying. Thank you for producing and posting this video. Jim.
Thanks Jim! We've been having a lot of fun flying these little things. Richie says he's all done with rubber power models after discovering supercap flying! We hope you'll try it out! -Mike and Richie
Awesome again! Got my caps in the mail this week, same same from China. Hooked up two in series so i can usb charge it. Now let's build a small plane and take off! Thank you Sir!
@@alienbeef0421 You are right! It was a trial - but most of all error for me. Also a normal portable 5 volt powerbank is not powerful enough to charge it fast or full. It didn't work for me anyway.
Some are wondering why not just use lipos. In free flight, you only run the motor for 30 seconds, otherwise the plane will disappear. So you need a timer on the plane to shut off the current to the motor from the lipo battery. Yes, you can charge less but then you have lower voltage. You can also use smaller capacity lipo but then overtime you'll have degradation and that will lower your capacity even more. The advantages of super caps is fast recharge, fast power delivery and more charge/discharge cycles than lipo. Plus, you don't have to worry about lipo storage and storing it at 3.7 volts. Like batteries, you can do series/parallel setup with the super caps to give you higher voltage or more flying time or both. I hope I got the last part right because I've never tried it with super caps but I would think they work like regular caps in that regard.
We use 2 caps in parallel with no problems for greater duration. I have come up with a MOSFET timer as others have done for applications where we need a higher voltage.
Take a look at so called "supercapacitor chargers", like LTC3110. These bi-directional dc-dc converters control charging and discharging of super capacitors, keeping the output voltage constant even when the cap discharged. You can also charge the cap to much higher voltage and then discharge it at constant low voltage for very long flights
thanks very much that was answer to my questions, ill be doing something similar with the cc cv charger and lipo set up i think. i think a volt meter on the circuit is essential for timing the charges perfectly
Glad you found it helpful. I put together a video on building our charger in case you missed it. We have built 2 identical units, love 'em! Good luck in your cap projects, post a video from time to time and let us have a look at what you're doing with them! -Mike
Good job explaining how these work. I see some expensive setups with timers and all that, but this is bare bones coolness. Love it! If you learn anything new, add a new video for us!
Great Hobby! Love your work and models, would love to get back into free fly that way as I have already flown capacitors planes before and loved the simplicity of it and free fly leaves you as an observer which is most of the fun.Thank you for your chanale it is very inspiring
Thank You very much for your kind comments! We too appreciate the simplicity and pure pleasure of watching these creations fly! Thanks for visiting our channel. -Mike and Richie in Massachusetts, USA
Great video! I was looking for entry points into model airplanes and got me a rubber powered glider with very nice glide performance and I also plan to do a RC conversion on it next week. I'm also eager to try out if the SuperCap powered Motor from Vincent Merlijns Rookie has enough power to sustain its altitude for some time :)
Thanks Dan! Rich and I built a second charger identical to the first and got video of the process. I need to get it edited together into something watchable and I'm having computer and software issues at the moment...posting this msg from a friend's machine in fact... but I'll get it up on here as soon as I can! Hit that subscribe if you haven't already to make sure you don't miss it! In the meantime, get in some test flights with those AA alkalines!
Very informative! Thank you! I have just ordered from Banggood their LM2596 DC-DC Adjustable Voltage Regulator with Display for around $5. It seems to be the perfect charger for this application.
I have an idea to make a free flight electric rocket. I want to use a little motor and propeller in a paper rocket tube that can run for maybe 3 seconds, just enough to get a quick thrust on takeoff. I can probably over volt those little 7mm motors to over 5v for a few seconds and use some 30-40mm propellers. I think it would be a neat idea even if it only goes up 100'.
Interesting! I don't think capacitors would do the job, though. Maybe a really small LiPo, but then you'd need a timer too. I'm subscribed to your channel, keep us posted on developments!
sonex413 yeah I was looking into lipos too, but the issue with them is that they are limited with how fast you can draw current from them. I'm searching for the perfect combination of size, weight, thrust, and current draw for my power source. Lipos can store way more energy than the same mass capacitor, but then it has to release that energy over a span of usually close to a minute at the minimum. I only need a few seconds of thrust so it is obviously wasting energy if I need to carry a lipo and only use 5% of its stored energy. Oh well I'll keep researching.
Very informative. This one gets me inspired every time I watch it. Again... your work on these airplanes is top notch! Wish you lived down the street, so I could hang out and learn some building chops... in terms of getting all the details right. My idea is to build this kind of craft as well as some rc lipo powered versions with three channels or so. I’m already scoring foam from the meat guys down at my local grocery store. Lol As well as picking up whatever else I can find that looks as if I may be able to put it to use. Oh yeah... I’m also thinking about building some of those servos that are copper coils with neo magnets at the other end. I fixed one for a friend... and that was a job, I’ll tell you. The wires are as thin as hairs, so soldering and such is quite the challenge! Ok... enough blabbing on. I just got a little worked up watching this one, again ha ha Great stuff, man!!!
Glad the video content sparked your interest, that's kinda why we do it! A while back I had a little infrared control living room plane (20 bucks from the toy store variety). It had throttle on/off on the left stick, and rudder L/R on the right stick- moving one of those magnet actuators just as you described. Back in the day, somewhat larger units capable of flipping the rudder back and forth on a small (.049-.10 or so size motor) gas powered model plane were available. I flew them a bunch! The transmitter would send a continuous stream of tone pulses (like a repeating musical note) to the airborne receiver which would whack the magnet to one side if the tone was "on" and the other side when "off". You can imagine if the pulses and empty spaces between pulses are the same length, the rudder will be flipping very quickly back and forth spending equal time on both sides...and the airplane will fly straight! You would say the pulse width was 50/50. Now, make it 60/40 or 70/30 and you have varying degrees of turn. make it 0/100 amd you pin the rudder to one side. In fact, it achieves totally proportional control and was called single channel pulse proportional. Some guys figured out ways to vary not only the pulse width, but also the pulse rate (length of repeat rate of on/off pulses) and decode an elevator control from it. That control scheme was called a Galloping Ghost rig. Anyway, when you decide to build your own actuator check out K&J Magnetics ( kjmagnetics.com )they'll have what you need and their monthly email is actually pretty interesting (if you like magnets, I guess that goes without saying LOL). Now, THAT'S how you do blabbing! Mike
sonex413 Ha ha! The little cub I fixed for my friend emitted a constant tone for the rudder and elevator servos. I kept telling him I was gonna cut his hair with it. Lol. That little plane is the cutest thing in the air... well was until I saw yours, but he used to get em from Hobby People... and I guess they went out of business, so you can’t get those little planes anymore. Very slow no wind kinda flyers. He still has a Tiger Moth and that Cub I fixed. I guess when those are gone that’s it. I’m gonna try to build him something from two Vapors he gave me for parts. I’d really like to be able to whip up some airplanes that are similar for him, for when the inevitable happens. He very much Loves flying, it’s his Zen as it is mine! But... his eyesight makes him need to stay close in and pretty slow. He’s a good Dude, and I feel compelled to help him out, as he has no building chops at all. I started looking for plans I could copy and print out for cutting out the pieces. Anyway... I’m mainly a quadcopter guy, so all this is pretty new to me, other than the Scout I bought about a year ago from Flite Test and built. It’s pretty funny cuz I actually started getting interested in rc planes after watching a video on RUclips with guys in a Japan flying indoors with very small stuff... then went to quads in some weird jump of momentum at some point due to some FPV footage I saw. Then... after a year or so of working hard and gaining the ability to fly an FPV quad... turns out I enjoy flying LOS the most, just the way I learned! Ha ha ha Ok... I’m done... ha ha... thanks for reading all this! Lol One thing we can both do is blab, ha ha ha👍🏼😊‼️
capasitors are a really great idea and maybe a little bit underestimated! I want to use them for some test flights when I don't know what battery or control system or receiver etc. is the best , capasitor deffinetelly would help me to choose and also I can calculate the distance for my plane with the capasitor so actually no extra transmiter-receiver needed (and other stuff)
Thanks Bill! Since the normal life expectancy is over a million charge cycles it's hard to say how much the D cells would reduce that number, or whether it would even be noticeable. I chose to stay within recommended limits to be on the safe side. AA cells got expensive and since I like "free" flight I built a couple of those regulated chargers for myself and Richie. We love 'em!
Thanks Bill! Since the normal life expectancy is over a million charge cycles it's hard to say how much the D cells would reduce that number, or whether it would even be noticeable. I chose to stay within recommended limits to be on the safe side. AA cells got expensive and since I like "free" flight I built a couple of those regulated chargers for myself and Richie. We love 'em!
It's some mechanical assembly and simple interconnections...installing it in a case... the circuit board stuff comes prewired...easy. Video coming soon will show you how to slap one together for about 15 bucks. Till then stick to the batteries and let us know how the capacitor torture test goes in the event you keep using the D cells on one cap as an experiment! Science! LOL
I have a question regarding the use of the reduction gears. Can you help me with the criteria to decide whether it is necessary tu use it or not? Thanks.
My favorite method is to assemble and test the motor, battery and propeller together on the workbench. See how much thrust and duration is available, then decide what aircraft you will put it in. In general, the geared motor is capable of flying a larger aircraft than the direct-drive using the same capacitor. Both styles are capable of great flights...have fun experimenting!
Hello Sonex413... I just found your site and you just educated me on what I needed to build a bunch of Supercap powered planes. I am heading up a build of a CH-750 Cruzer with my EAA chapter and its predominantly being built by Young Eagles kids. With you screen name I am sure you know what that is. Anyhow, we ended up with a few kids that are too young and their attention span falls off after a few rivets or when we have down time studying the plans. to fix this, I thought about making some Depron Supercap Models. I plan to draw up a profile version of the Cruzer in Solidworks and 3d Print templates the kids can use to cut out of depron. In your video, one item is a broken link. Can you point me to what you intended that item to be? Also are any of these components available in the USA for faster shipping? Is there an online store that focuses on selling electronics and props for these type of models? Any help you can offer woudl be greatly appreciated. Also this is for EAA Chapter 40 in Pacoima CA near Burbank Airport.
Thanks for watching Michael, hope you subscribe! Entire circuit for field charger is as follows (using the Banggood drop-down converter, which has adjustable voltage and amperage on output): Input side: Reverse current protection built in, no additional components required. We use XT60 connector to connect 2 cell LiPo 1300ma to the unit, good for about a month of flying! Output side: Connect to charging leads going to airplane, with a diode in the positive leg (stripe on diode toward airplane). Diode rating should be based on what you plan to hook up to the charger...since voltage and current are both adjustable on this unit you can use it as a general purpose battery charger and you may want to install a heavy duty diode if you intend to do that. If you're only charging little caps you don't need super heavy duty! My jumbo diode came out of a junk toy airplane charger which used 6 "D" alkaline cells to charge a NiMH 4 or 5 cell pack. You can hook up a multimeter to the charger leads (after the diode) to monitor charge of the cap. Or you can use the Baggood mini LED like we use. It has 3 wires...black and red are supply for the meter circuitry and go to the 7.4V input side of the converter....3rd wire (usually yellow) is the sense wire and goes to the positive charger lead, again on the far side of the diode. We made a second charger for Richie, his used one diode segment on a full-wave bridge rectifier intended for 110V appliance in place of that jumbo unit, that works fine too. P.S. little extra red LED on output of my charger doesn't do anything, it is a relic of the unit's past life as a toy charger!
Hey Sonex413 I have a question. I understand with a transfer gear setup and all that but I have to ask this silly question...why do that? Thanks you 2 got me hooked!
Yes, it's possible to charge the thing backwards...and the motor will run backwards....Glad you enjoyed the video, hope you try a supercap plane! Thx for the comment!
I still have several old wood rubber band model kits designs of WW-2 mostly. Just waiting to build that I bought in the 60’s to 70’s. 12” wing span up to 28” wing span. Would these work on my old models.
Yes, absolutely! ...and they never blow up inside the fuselage taking all the formers with them! There is only one drawback to balsa and tissue...have you seen the price of a bottle of clear dope lately? Seriously, the capacitor/electric power systems are ideal for small scale models. Weight is pretty close to an even trade vs rubber...balance is easier because you can put the cap wherever you need it to go...multi-engine is easy, as are designs with short nacelles. The structures can be lightened a bit since they won't have to resist the tension of the rubber motor. Let us know if you build one, we'd love to see it! -Mike
Right now I’m building three model planes plastic 1/48 scale and one 1/32 scale. But I have a Guillow P-47 Thunder bolt plane that I started the body is mostly done. Then I also started the build of a Guillow 15” wing span typhoon plane. I cut out all the parts and started to clean up everything but it ended up put away for now to many other things to fix up or finish up. I have a 5’ speed boat to restore for some body I’m swimming in kit work. I never learned about electric before always wanted to try but never had anyone to learn from. Very kool simple looking projects.
Thanks! We subscribed to your channel today! Very nice models you have there! Those little balsa and tissue models like the Prairie Bird would be excellent candidates for a capacitor system! -Mike and Richie, Massachusetts, USA
What's the purpose of adding gear reduction? Instead, you could easily use a smaller prop and the coreless motor would easily provide the rpm necessary to produce a comparable thrust or more.
Hi, sorry for the delayed reply. There's an explanation and diagram in this video: ruclips.net/video/yJ2Vud3HOpY/видео.html Watch 5 minutes beginning at 23:00. It doesn't have to look exactly like ours!
Obrigado pela sua pergunta! Infelizmente, você provavelmente não encontrará este tipo de capacitor em sucata eletrônica. Embora você encontre capacitores com aparência semelhante, ao examinar as marcas, você perceberá que elas possuem uma capacidade de alguma fração de Farad. Eu descobri que a melhor fonte para os "supercondensadores" é a empresa de vendas por correspondência chinesa Banggood. Estes são os que Richie e eu usamos em nossos planos de modelo: www.banggood.com/5pcs-2_7V-10F-Cylindrical-Ultra-Super-Farad-Capacitor-High-Power-Capacitance-Supercap-10-x-26mm-p-1218354.html?p=AZ31114857064201605K Mais uma vez, obrigado pelo comentário e pergunta. Esperamos que você assine nosso canal no youtube! Seus amigos aeromodeladores, Mike e Richie em Massachusetts, EUA
We actually do that quite a bit. A good combo is a 8520 motor, 2x 10F caps in parallel and a 65mm prop on a 16 to 20 inch span foamie. Run time about a minute.
I have seen different charge voltages used by different people. Some use 2 AA batteries, some use 3 AA, some use a buck converter to supply constant 4V for a small time. So I have only seen people charging to 3V and higher and no one goes for 2.7V or 2.8 V. I dont know why that is or what is appropriate. Also, how do I build ur kind of fuselage with my foam plates? Would be nice if u can do a short build video and provide plans :)
Hi, thanks for the comment! I chose the charging voltage and current based on specs I found for a very similar capacitor I found listed on digi-key.com. I wanted to stay well within the ratings of the device to be on the safe side. As I mentioned in the video, these capacitors behave like a dead short when they are not holding a charge (super low internal resistance acts like a short circuit). So, it's important to use a low current supply to charge. AA cells are low amperage whether you use 2 or 3 of them, so no danger there. If you use a buck converter, it should be a current limiting type or at least able to withstand a shorted output for a short time. I like the idea of making a build video but I can point you in the right direction until that happens. There is a website called outerzone.co.uk where you can download thousands of old-timer plans for free. What I do is pick out the design I want to build and download it (it's a PDF file). I display the plan on my computer screen and adjust the size on the screen until it is the size I want to build. Then I darken the lights in the room and trace the part outlines with tracing paper right over the screen. You might have to play with some of the dimensions a little to allow for the different relative thickness of the foam vs. the original balsa (in most cases) construction. Simplify the structure where appropriate...basically just use the main outlines and improvise the structure out of sheet foam. Just build a box with a couple of formers or bulkheads to hold the shape for the fuselage...the wings and tail are just sheet with a bit of an airfoil sanded in (optional). Traditional balsa and tissue construction will work also. If you go to the outerzone site and search for Ranger 30 by Carl Goldberg you will see the plans I used to build the little red/white and blue/white high wing monoplanes seen in this video. It's a good first project and flies great. I subbed your channel, great video about those walkalong gliders! Those kids were having a lot of fun and learning a lot at the same time!
sonex413 Thanks! I had seen ur other flight video where u mentioned Outerzone website. And ur 1+ min flight video was amazing...quute a steep climb and I was surprised it didnt stall..pretty good trimming I guess :) I am a newbie and am just starting to learn abt supercap FF...just ordered supercapas, motors and props from China...no easy/cheap availability of Balsa here is India so Walkalong has been my main stay...I got TSS rubber through a friend returning from US and achieved very very moderate results with my materials (see the XSticksy 300 video on my channel)- I had to make a paper clip hanger, yogurt cup props, dried stem fuselage etc which wasnt capable of sustaining very high rubber turns before the wire hanger started giving in...I now intend to do away with wire hanger and try a SkyBunny type hanger which I also use in Dragonfly helicopter designed by ScienceToyMaker. So due to TSS availability issues I am now trying a hand at supercap FF as one can get stuff from China. I will be trying 716 and 720 motors. I got some readings and read some posts on online forums, and lots of people had used 2.5" props on 7mm direct drive motors with good results (they had done tests for max efficiency and max power rpm and put up tables). While the resistance of motors they commonly use is higher from these Chinese motors, I guess the 2.5" (65mm) prop should be good with the 716 and 720 if the airplane weight is within limits. I checked my four 716 motors and their resistance varied- 1.5 ohm 1.6, 1.6, 2.1 ohm. The 7mm motor these other flyers had used, ientified as red, orange and green, had resistances of 2.3, 3.3 and 5.9ohm. The Chinese motors seem to be equivalent what they call Purple and Blue motors (low resistance) and designed for higher initial thrust rather than a sustained thrust. It would be nice if u could also do a video on various prop-motor combinations acc to airplane weight and wingspan. With geared system, there is only one type available in China which is 5.3:1 reduction, so no other possibilities with that. I am hoping to go for 716 and720 on 65mm prop and geared 5.5" prop, all from China.
Thanks for the report! We are doing the same thing you are doing...finding out what works by trial and error along with a bit of sleuthing on the internet to see what works for others! I agree with your observations on the effect of motor resistance on duration vs. power. The little twin with the 1+ min flights is powered by 2x 614 (3.5 ohm)motors with 45mm props...they came out of a wrecked toy r/c plane. It has a single 10F Banggod cap. The secret to the excellent performance is the wing airfoil, it's a salvaged portion of a molded foam wing from a Micro Radian motorglider. There's a closer look at it in my video with the words "thermal bait" in the title. The blue/white Ranger 30 in this video has a geared 716 motor with the 5 1/2 in. prop and a 10F cap. Wingspan 18 inches, all 3mm sheet foam. It has a very aggressive initial climb but doesn't have great duration, averaging about 35 seconds. Slow turning prop really kills the glide at the end..perfect when you fly in a tiny area or there's a bit of breeze. The higher performing planes only come out when the air is DEAD! The 716/720 motor with 65mm prop and 10 Farad cap should be a great combination, my friend Richie was averaging about a minute with a 720 and 55mm prop. There's a video here: ruclips.net/video/Cb6R1GhuVIw/видео.html No balsa? No problem. I prefer not to use it because it absorbs moisture anyway. If a little extra strength is needed in a foam structure, a bit of clear tape on both sides adds a lot....Bamboo can be split into quite small sizes and and approaches the strength of composites...taper a piece for a great tail boom or wing spar. Happy flying, watch for our videos, and stay in touch! Mike in Massachusetts, USA
sonex413 Thanks Mike! I'll try some things when my items arrive and let you know. Here are the pages where I found some info about those motor tests although the airplanes disccussed on the forum are battery powered...maybe it will help with ur tests and avoid some of the 'reinventing the wheel': www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?234665-7mm-Super-Slicks-Car-Pager-Motors!! www.gasparin.cz/page.php?page=rc/articles/superslick/superslick&lng=en I found some articles on supercaps through a friend that I felt were helpful to me as a novice...I could send them to you if give me ur email id or shoot me an email on "ashu DOT bhakuni AT gmail DOT com" It is from these above readings that I found that a 65mm prop on direct drive gave them good results and I ordered 65mm instead of 55mm to test what they were saying (although I dont know enough to understand what 'good' mean- some might be aiming for duration and others for power to get it to height for glide..I'd be happy to learn more from you).
Je regarde toutes vos videos et c'est fantastique j'adore mais j'ai essayé de faire des planeurs avec tout ce qui faut: capacitors 10 f ,propeleers 45 cm ou 55mm et j'ai essayé toutes sortes de moteurs comme vous mais rien a faire il ne veulent pas voler mes avions font moins que 20grammes Pouvez vous m'aider a voir pourquoi mes avions ne volent pas du tout merci
Bonjour, je suis désolé d'apprendre que vous n'avez pas encore eu de succès avec vos modèles! Tout d'abord, assurez-vous que vous utilisez les bons composants. Le condensateur doit être ce qu'on appelle un supercondensateur ou un ultracondensateur. Ils sont généralement évalués à 2,7 volts. Nous avons utilisé un seul condensateur 10 farad couplé à un moteur «sans noyau» de 6 ou 7 mm de diamètre. Les moteurs plus grands de 8,5 mm de diamètre nécessitent (2x) 10 condensateurs farad câblés en parallèle. Tous les moteurs que nous utilisons sont évalués à 3,7 volts, c'est-à-dire qu'ils étaient à l'origine utilisés dans des appareils fonctionnant avec une pile au lithium de 3,7 volts. La plupart sont destinés à être utilisés dans de petits quadricoptères. Voici les spécifications d'un petit modèle typique: Envergure: 32 cm Poids en vol: 11,5 g Aire de l'aile: 135 cm ^ 2 "615" moteur (6 mm de diamètre x 15 mm de longueur) et (1) 10 Farad, 2,7 volts supercondensateur L'hélice mesure 50 mm sur ce modèle. Cette combinaison vole environ 30 secondes en moyenne. Pour un modèle dans la gamme de 18-20g, je suggère un moteur de 8,5 mm de diamètre x 20 mm de longueur avec une hélice de 65 mm ainsi que (2) condensateurs 10F en parallèle. Bonne chance et si vous avez d'autres questions, faites-le moi savoir. -Mike
@@sonex413 mERCI BEAUCOUP POUR LA REPONSE ET C'EST TOUT CE MATERIEL QUE J'UTILISE MAIS AUCUN NE VEULENT VOLER ?POURTANT J'AI TOUT ESSAYE LES SUPER CONDENSATEURS 10,7,60 ET 2X 10FARAD ET TOUT LES MOTEURS 6,7,8,10 MM ET LE POIDS EST BON AUSSI SUR CERTAINS ,, JE NE COMPREND PAS ?J'AI DEJA FAIT UNE DIZAINE D'AVIONS DE TOUTE SORTENT MAIS RIEN A FAIRE ILS NE DECOLLE PAS ?MAIS JE N'ABANDONNE PAS BONNE CONTINUATION POUR VOUS C'EST UN REGAL DE REGARDER VOS VIDEOS ET JE SUIS JALOUX quel poids ne peut on pas depasser?
@@noramghislain1258 Salut, Si vous regardez au tout début de cette vidéo, vous verrez trois petits modèles. Au centre se trouve un petit modèle rouge et blanc avec une aile haute montée. Dans ma réponse précédente, j'ai énuméré les spécifications d'un modèle typique ... Ce sont, en fait, les spécifications de ce modèle. Le petit modèle biplan utilise le même équipement ... et le plus grand modèle bleu et blanc (qui est en fait une version plus grande du plus petit) utilise un moteur de 7 mm avec une réduction de vitesse et une hélice plus grande. Si vous avez vérifié que vous utilisez le bon équipement, la seule chose qui reste est la charge du condensateur. Vous devriez utiliser deux piles «AA» connectées en série appliquées aux bornes du condensateur pendant environ 10 à 15 secondes. Vous pouvez lire la tension du condensateur pendant la charge en connectant un voltmètre aux bornes du condensateur pendant la charge. Une charge complète permet au condensateur de contenir environ 2,7 à 2,8 volts. Câblez les composants et testez-les sur l'établi avant de les installer dans le modèle. Vous devez observer une forte poussée pendant environ 15 secondes, avec un ralentissement progressif et une durée totale de fonctionnement d'environ 30 à 60 secondes. J'espère que ces informations vous aideront! -Mike
Not used in many consumer devices...I've never seen one in its natural environment. They are generally used in power backup systems to overcome temporary interruptions in power supply. They have applications in computer memory backup power, etc. Best source we've found is Banggood.
@@sonex413 I had a few power transformers. 15000 mf @ 50V. Big as a beer can too. Nice transistors in them though. I'll keep an eye out. I'm always finding stuff with circuit boards worth salvaging.
@@sonex413 Im making a video today if everything goes right. I make motorized paper airplanes out of microdrones. I've made a few of them so I got it down pretty good. Ill let you know how it turns out.
@@AngryHybridApe Wow! 15000mf means it could probably kill an elephant! I found some really good 10Farad 3V supercaps on ebay recently, they are sold as "18V 1.6Farad capacitor module" and has 6 10F 3V caps on a circuit board (series wired) along with some small surface mount components which serve as a balancer for the caps. Since they are wired to the board in series you get 18 volts (3Vx6) and 1.6F (10F /6=1.6F). They can be desoldered from the board and they have a bit of an advantage over the typical 2.7 volt caps. We have flown a few and they are AOK. Same dimensions as 2.7v 10F. I bought 5 boards and harvested all the caps!
@@sonex413 You should see the transformers that came with them. A little bigger than microwave oven transformers. But thats because the secondary winding was huge.
I have posted some model build photos on Hippocketaeronautics.com - ''Capacitor powered electrics vs. rubber'' under the name SX976. All inspired by the sonex413 team!! Thanks a lot guys. I am particularly happy with the Avro Manchester. Whenever lockdown ends I will be able to fly them.
Hi Chris, I was not aware of that site. Looks great so I registered (user Sonex413 of course). Hey, your Manchester is a beauty! I think there are many possibilities for caps to replace rubber when it comes to scale or semi-scale models, especially multi engine or designs with short nacelles, etc. My latest is a scale model of a semi-scale model! That is, a half-size replica of the old single channel R/C Goldberg Cessna Skylane powered with 8520 coreless and 20 Farads. I'm also awaiting a test flight but I'll post a picture on the community tab of my channel before that. Stay safe my friend, at least we're getting some building done during this lockdown! -Mike
Terima kasih, dan terima kasih juga telah berlangganan saluran saya! Anda akan menemukan tautan ke kapasitor, motor, dll, dalam deskripsi teks video ini. Semoga berhasil dengan pesawat Anda! Mike dan Richie di Massachusetts, AS
Hi Mike! Can I use this step down DC converter to charge a 1S 3.7V battery (say 1000mah) using 5V or 12V adapter so that I can then charge the supercap with the lipo? How? Does it need some extra component to be add to the converter?
Yes, this little converter will charge almost any kind of battery since both the output voltage and output current (amps) are adjustable. A heavy duty diode should be installed on the positive output (band on diode away from converter) between the converter and the battery to be charged, to provide back-current protection for the circuit. The input side of the converter has reverse polarity protection built in and needs no extra parts. Since there is a voltage drop through the diode, the charging voltage should be measured/monitored right at the battery terminals, not on the converter's display. The output voltage with no load attached should be set (by means of left-hand trim pot)at the finishing voltage of the battery to be charged. To set the desired charge rate (Amps) you short the output leads and adjust the right-hand trim pot to display the desired value in amps on the little screen. I believe most lipos can accept a charge at the so-called one hour rate, for example, on a 1000mah battery, limit charge rate to 1000ma. I hope this helps rather than confuses you, if any part isn't clear enough feel free to ask for more! Really, I should make a video about it!-Mike
sonex413 Thanks Mike! I think I understood most of what you wrote. I supply input power with my adapter, attach the diode to output positive terminal in fwd bias, measure voltage at the output terminals including diode with another multimeter, adjust out voltage without battery, and adjust current by shorting terminals..right? While measuring output current by shorting terminals the value on converter's screen should be seen or there too another multimeter should be used and diode should be added before shorting? I have a pretty cheap multimeter that I dont think is safe for ampere measurements. In ur another video u set the supercap charging current to 800mA..that value should be taken as a rough standard for charging with any other lipo? I havent use lipos nor am well versed with semiconductors...These 3.7V lipos should be charged to 3.7V only? I saw a video which used 4.2V but commenters said that it reduces life. Also, can u pls tell the part name for ur heavy duty diode so that i can look it up or its substitute? And a video would definitely help a lot of people :) Thanks!
Your first paragraph is all correct. When setting output amps, read directly on unit screen, no multimeter needed. The reason you need it to check output voltage is the voltage drop over the diode. 800ma charge rate at about 3.1 Volts is what I use for 10Farad caps. I use a different charger for my Lipos but I read about people using these converters for charging Lipos in the customer comments section on Banggood's product description page. I believe 4.2 Volts is correct float voltage for 3.7 Volt Lipo cell. Sorry I don't have diode part number as it came out of salvaged toy airplane charger....On my friend's identical field charger we used one section of a full wave bridge rectifier in place of the diode...again, part came from junk box so no part number! Just use something strong enough to check the back flow of the battery you are going to charge...Bigger battery, bigger diode. Hope this helps, don't be shy about asking more questions! -Mike
sonex413 Thanks Mike. I saw the product description on banggood and realised that the 3.7V 1S lipo wont work with this converter for charging the supercap as it requires a min 1.5V voltage difference between input and output. So a 3.1V output would need at least 4.6V input. Your 2S lipo is sufficient for this. I havent bought the lipo or diode and wanted to be sure of the specifications before I decided to buy. I guess I will stick to the simple and cheap AA charging. :) Oh, and I read that the voltage drop across a diode in fwd bias is 0.7V so I guess thats gives a rough idea about the drop. Nevertheless for learning, the diode should be chose as per the C value of the lipo and its current rating should be seen..so 25C lipo should have at least 25A diode? I could see max 10A and 1000V or 600V diodes available here.
I'm using my field charger only for capacitors so the diode I'm using has been perfect for the job. I have an old Triton charger that I use to keep my 2S 1300mah Lipos charged. One of my Lipos fully charged lasts for about a month of capacitor flying! Richie and I used AA alkalines for quite a while before we built our chargers, it's the best and easiest way to get started and you can build a charger later if you find you are flying a lot. When we were using the AA's we were still using a voltmeter to measure the state of charge at the capacitor. This becomes more important as the batteries wear down and it takes longer to reach full charge. Concerning amp rating of diodes...wish I knew more about what it actually does in the circuit. I wonder if it's only there to protect against accidentally hooking up the load backwards? Or maybe it has a function during normal charging also? All I know is that I have read references to adding a diode and using the unit to charge various batteries. Mainly saw those comments in the customer comments section on Banggood. 10Amp 1000Volt diode doesn't sound right! LOL I think we are missing something! -Mike
No, I'm afraid not. It will supply too many Amps. You see, that 1 Amp rating actually means 1 amp-Hour. It is a measure of total battery capacity, in this case, it would power a 1 Amp load for 1 Hour on a full charge. The Amps available in the case of a low resistance load like a supercap would be much, much higher. You really need to use a low current source like AA batteries or a regulated power supply as in the video. Thanks for a very good question, hope you'll subscribe to the channel! Mike
I don't know of any supercapacitors with a 10 V rating. What you may have is a regular electrolytic capacitor. Watch the first part of the video where I explained the difference between a supercap and a regular electrolytic cap. Wikipedia has a lengthy article about supercaps which goes into great detail...history, development, theory of operation, charging etc. if you want the entire story. Good luck with your experiments!
I believe the motors you recommend are no longer available. The link you provide ( www.banggood.com/4X-Original-... ) comes up as "Page Not Found" Is there another motor you recommend for this setup? And thanks a bunch for doing the video....very informative.
Hi, thanks for letting me know, I'll take care of updating that link! Any of those little hobby-grade 615 motors will work, as well as just about any small coreless motor. Here are some that are currently in stock and work well. Don't hesitate to experiment with different sizes of motors and props! Have fun, =Mike and Richie in Massachusetts. www.banggood.com/4X-Racerstar-615-6x15mm-59000RPM-Coreless-Motor-for-Eachine-E010C-E010S-Blade-Inductrix-Tiny-Whoop-p-1115473.html?p=AZ31114857064201605K&custlinkid=720929
It will slowly spin for several minutes but there is only useful power during the initial burst. It more or less free-wheels which helps the glide ever so slightly,
Just built a Sopwith triplane with my 8 year old daughter, old school balsa and tissue, I think we'll have a go at this on it as a drone guy, I have a lot of coreless motors, and much bigger ones too. Best information I've found thank you for your work and passion.
Thanks Ben! Wow, depending on what kit you built, that might be asking a lot of a capacitor drive! I suggest a geared drive to allow a larger prop than a direct drive...so you can get the prop tips to stick out past that cowling. BG has a geared 820 drive with a 5.5 inch prop which might work. Remember, these motors are designed for 1 lipo cell so when we run them on capacitors at 2.8 volts "burst" voltage there is only so much power there. Don't expect the kind of thrust you get from a similar motor in a quad. Best plan is to bench run your proposed setup and see if you have enough power before you install in a model. If a supercap doesn't do the trick, you still have the option of powering the motor with a single lipo, using a simple MOSFET timer. You'll get at least double the thrust of a supercap setup. I'm working on a video on how to make the timer for about 5 bucks. See video mentioning MOSFET TIMER in the title to see one in action. Good luck!! -Mike
Hey Mike and Richie, I’ve been away from RUclips ever since I got my medical pot approval in July. It was great to find this tutorial now that I’ve decided to partially re-enter earth’s atmosphere. I hope to begin building again using this information after my cap-plane fails this spring. Thanks and keep up the good work. Ron
Great to hear from you Ron! Richie and I were getting a little worried about you when you went MIA from the comment boards... he asked me a few times if I'd heard from you lately and he was getting ready to head out there with a couple of tracking dogs when I said I hadn't. He will be relieved when he hears that at least you had a good reason for going missing! Glad that you liked the video and that you're going to do some building. BTW did you ever see the first vid with Richie? He had a few beers and I was trying to make a serious video...you might get a kick out of it...turn on the closed captions so you don't miss Richie's comments. Take care Ron! ruclips.net/video/lWndUdyncUs/видео.html
Very useful - thanks. I saw a few videos where people were charging up a 2.7v supercap directly with an 18650 battery which sounded a bit dodgy to me. I'll now build up something like your charging system.
Fantastic video, Mike. An easy to understand and apparently comprehensive introduction to super capacity flying. This seems like an easy and budget friendly way to enjoy flying. Thank you for producing and posting this video. Jim.
Thanks Jim! We've been having a lot of fun flying these little things. Richie says he's all done with rubber power models after discovering supercap flying! We hope you'll try it out! -Mike and Richie
Thank you! I've been wondering how to do this.
Your "positive"comment is very much appreciated! Post up a video if you get one going!
sonex413 I sure will!
Awesome again! Got my caps in the mail this week, same same from China. Hooked up two in series so i can usb charge it. Now let's build a small plane and take off! Thank you Sir!
Haven't tried them in series yet myself, looking forward to hearing about your experiments! Good luck!
oof that will reduce the capacitance. Capacitors in series will not act like batteries in series.
@@alienbeef0421 You are right! It was a trial - but most of all error for me. Also a normal portable 5 volt powerbank is not powerful enough to charge it fast or full. It didn't work for me anyway.
I found this video absolutely brilliant. Thank you for inspiring me to have a go.
Some are wondering why not just use lipos. In free flight, you only run the motor for 30 seconds, otherwise the plane will disappear. So you need a timer on the plane to shut off the current to the motor from the lipo battery. Yes, you can charge less but then you have lower voltage. You can also use smaller capacity lipo but then overtime you'll have degradation and that will lower your capacity even more. The advantages of super caps is fast recharge, fast power delivery and more charge/discharge cycles than lipo. Plus, you don't have to worry about lipo storage and storing it at 3.7 volts. Like batteries, you can do series/parallel setup with the super caps to give you higher voltage or more flying time or both. I hope I got the last part right because I've never tried it with super caps but I would think they work like regular caps in that regard.
We use 2 caps in parallel with no problems for greater duration. I have come up with a MOSFET timer as others have done for applications where we need a higher voltage.
You've answered quite a few of my questions...thanx!
Glad to help! Hope you'll try one!
Great info!!! appreciate it! Looking forward to putting it in practice. Thanks for sharing!
You're welcome! Good luck and have fun!
Take a look at so called "supercapacitor chargers", like LTC3110. These bi-directional dc-dc converters control charging and discharging of super capacitors, keeping the output voltage constant even when the cap discharged. You can also charge the cap to much higher voltage and then discharge it at constant low voltage for very long flights
Thanks, that is excellent information!
Really useful and nice video! We want to see Ritchie flying that beautiful MIG 15 too.
Thanks! Subbed your channel, please sub ours! -Mike and Richie
thanks very much that was answer to my questions, ill be doing something similar with the cc cv charger and lipo set up i think. i think a volt meter on the circuit is essential for timing the charges perfectly
Glad you found it helpful. I put together a video on building our charger in case you missed it. We have built 2 identical units, love 'em! Good luck in your cap projects, post a video from time to time and let us have a look at what you're doing with them! -Mike
Good job explaining how these work. I see some expensive setups with timers and all that, but this is bare bones coolness. Love it! If you learn anything new, add a new video for us!
2022 BUMP ... Nice and informative video
Thanks!!
Most excellent! Thanks for sharing! This was super helpful! We need to shop around and get some of these. 👍😀
Great! Looking forward to seeing a video on what you guys come up with! Mike and Richie
Send me the capasitor name
Great Hobby! Love your work and models, would love to get back into free fly that way as I have already flown capacitors planes before and loved the simplicity of it and free fly leaves you as an observer which is most of the fun.Thank you for your chanale
it is very inspiring
Thank You very much for your kind comments! We too appreciate the simplicity and pure pleasure of watching these creations fly! Thanks for visiting our channel. -Mike and Richie in Massachusetts, USA
Great video! I was looking for entry points into model airplanes and got me a rubber powered glider with very nice glide performance and I also plan to do a RC conversion on it next week.
I'm also eager to try out if the SuperCap powered Motor from Vincent Merlijns Rookie has enough power to sustain its altitude for some time :)
Awesome! I will be doing the same. Please make a video of how to make a charger.
Thanks Dan! Rich and I built a second charger identical to the first and got video of the process. I need to get it edited together into something watchable and I'm having computer and software issues at the moment...posting this msg from a friend's machine in fact... but I'll get it up on here as soon as I can! Hit that subscribe if you haven't already to make sure you don't miss it! In the meantime, get in some test flights with those AA alkalines!
Very informative! Thank you! I have just ordered from Banggood their LM2596 DC-DC Adjustable Voltage Regulator with Display for around $5. It seems to be the perfect charger for this application.
Just discovered your charger build video with a different Banggood DC - DC converter! Thanks!!
I have an idea to make a free flight electric rocket. I want to use a little motor and propeller in a paper rocket tube that can run for maybe 3 seconds, just enough to get a quick thrust on takeoff. I can probably over volt those little 7mm motors to over 5v for a few seconds and use some 30-40mm propellers. I think it would be a neat idea even if it only goes up 100'.
Interesting! I don't think capacitors would do the job, though. Maybe a really small LiPo, but then you'd need a timer too. I'm subscribed to your channel, keep us posted on developments!
sonex413 yeah I was looking into lipos too, but the issue with them is that they are limited with how fast you can draw current from them. I'm searching for the perfect combination of size, weight, thrust, and current draw for my power source. Lipos can store way more energy than the same mass capacitor, but then it has to release that energy over a span of usually close to a minute at the minimum. I only need a few seconds of thrust so it is obviously wasting energy if I need to carry a lipo and only use 5% of its stored energy. Oh well I'll keep researching.
Keep us posted on your results, it sounds interesting!
thanks for the great information. I'm interested in the Dakota biplane. 60 yeas ago I had a balsa one. I can't find plans anywhere. Please help
Very informative. This one gets me inspired every time I watch it. Again... your work on these airplanes is top notch! Wish you lived down the street, so I could hang out and learn some building chops... in terms of getting all the details right. My idea is to build this kind of craft as well as some rc lipo powered versions with three channels or so. I’m already scoring foam from the meat guys down at my local grocery store. Lol
As well as picking up whatever else I can find that looks as if I may be able to put it to use. Oh yeah... I’m also thinking about building some of those servos that are copper coils with neo magnets at the other end. I fixed one for a friend... and that was a job, I’ll tell you. The wires are as thin as hairs, so soldering and such is quite the challenge! Ok... enough blabbing on. I just got a little worked up watching this one, again ha ha
Great stuff, man!!!
Glad the video content sparked your interest, that's kinda why we do it!
A while back I had a little infrared control living room plane (20 bucks from the toy store variety). It had throttle on/off on the left stick, and rudder L/R on the right stick- moving one of those magnet actuators just as you described. Back in the day, somewhat larger units capable of flipping the rudder back and forth on a small (.049-.10 or so size motor) gas powered model plane were available. I flew them a bunch! The transmitter would send a continuous stream of tone pulses (like a repeating musical note) to the airborne receiver which would whack the magnet to one side if the tone was "on" and the other side when "off". You can imagine if the pulses and empty spaces between pulses are the same length, the rudder will be flipping very quickly back and forth spending equal time on both sides...and the airplane will fly straight! You would say the pulse width was 50/50. Now, make it 60/40 or 70/30 and you have varying degrees of turn. make it 0/100 amd you pin the rudder to one side. In fact, it achieves totally proportional control and was called single channel pulse proportional. Some guys figured out ways to vary not only the pulse width, but also the pulse rate (length of repeat rate of on/off pulses) and decode an elevator control from it. That control scheme was called a Galloping Ghost rig. Anyway, when you decide to build your own actuator check out K&J Magnetics ( kjmagnetics.com )they'll have what you need and their monthly email is actually pretty interesting (if you like magnets, I guess that goes without saying LOL).
Now, THAT'S how you do blabbing!
Mike
sonex413 Ha ha! The little cub I fixed for my friend emitted a constant tone for the rudder and elevator servos. I kept telling him I was gonna cut his hair with it. Lol. That little plane is the cutest thing in the air... well was until I saw yours, but he used to get em from Hobby People... and I guess they went out of business, so you can’t get those little planes anymore. Very slow no wind kinda flyers. He still has a Tiger Moth and that Cub I fixed. I guess when those are gone that’s it. I’m gonna try to build him something from two Vapors he gave me for parts. I’d really like to be able to whip up some airplanes that are similar for him, for when the inevitable happens. He very much Loves flying, it’s his Zen as it is mine! But... his eyesight makes him need to stay close in and pretty slow. He’s a good Dude, and I feel compelled to help him out, as he has no building chops at all. I started looking for plans I could copy and print out for cutting out the pieces. Anyway... I’m mainly a quadcopter guy, so all this is pretty new to me, other than the Scout I bought about a year ago from Flite Test and built. It’s pretty funny cuz I actually started getting interested in rc planes after watching a video on RUclips with guys in a Japan flying indoors with very small stuff... then went to quads in some weird jump of momentum at some point due to some FPV footage I saw. Then... after a year or so of working hard and gaining the ability to fly an FPV quad... turns out I enjoy flying LOS the most, just the way I learned! Ha ha ha
Ok... I’m done... ha ha... thanks for reading all this! Lol
One thing we can both do is blab, ha ha ha👍🏼😊‼️
capasitors are a really great idea and maybe a little bit underestimated! I want to use them for some test flights when I don't know what battery or control system or receiver etc. is the best , capasitor deffinetelly would help me to choose and also I can calculate the distance for my plane with the capasitor so actually no extra transmiter-receiver needed (and other stuff)
Great point! They are a very simple form of power for small models. Thanks for comment!
Awesome tutorial my friend! Very helpful info!
Thanks! As always, it's a pleasure to hear from you. Keep 'em flying!! Mike and Richie
Thanks! Always flying!
Gostei muito desta explicação. Obrigado por compartilhar !
Fico feliz em saber que você gostou do vídeo. Obrigado por visualizá-lo! Mike
How large of an aircraft could this system power?
Well done, information I did not know. I was charging with 2 D cells.
Thanks Bill! Since the normal life expectancy is over a million charge cycles it's hard to say how much the D cells would reduce that number, or whether it would even be noticeable. I chose to stay within recommended limits to be on the safe side. AA cells got expensive and since I like "free" flight I built a couple of those regulated chargers for myself and Richie. We love 'em!
Thanks Bill! Since the normal life expectancy is over a million charge cycles it's hard to say how much the D cells would reduce that number, or whether it would even be noticeable. I chose to stay within recommended limits to be on the safe side. AA cells got expensive and since I like "free" flight I built a couple of those regulated chargers for myself and Richie. We love 'em!
The regulated charger really looked nice, I do not know enough about electronics to build that.
It's some mechanical assembly and simple interconnections...installing it in a case... the circuit board stuff comes prewired...easy. Video coming soon will show you how to slap one together for about 15 bucks. Till then stick to the batteries and let us know how the capacitor torture test goes in the event you keep using the D cells on one cap as an experiment! Science! LOL
I have a question regarding the use of the reduction gears. Can you help me with the criteria to decide whether it is necessary tu use it or not? Thanks.
My favorite method is to assemble and test the motor, battery and propeller together on the workbench. See how much thrust and duration is available, then decide what aircraft you will put it in. In general, the geared motor is capable of flying a larger aircraft than the direct-drive using the same capacitor. Both styles are capable of great flights...have fun experimenting!
Hello Sonex413... I just found your site and you just educated me on what I needed to build a bunch of Supercap powered planes. I am heading up a build of a CH-750 Cruzer with my EAA chapter and its predominantly being built by Young Eagles kids. With you screen name I am sure you know what that is. Anyhow, we ended up with a few kids that are too young and their attention span falls off after a few rivets or when we have down time studying the plans. to fix this, I thought about making some Depron Supercap Models. I plan to draw up a profile version of the Cruzer in Solidworks and 3d Print templates the kids can use to cut out of depron. In your video, one item is a broken link. Can you point me to what you intended that item to be? Also are any of these components available in the USA for faster shipping? Is there an online store that focuses on selling electronics and props for these type of models? Any help you can offer woudl be greatly appreciated. Also this is for EAA Chapter 40 in Pacoima CA near Burbank Airport.
Hello, could you diagram the diode input protection circuit? That's a really big diode ya got there! Thanks!
Thanks for watching Michael, hope you subscribe! Entire circuit for field charger is as follows (using the Banggood drop-down converter, which has adjustable voltage and amperage on output):
Input side: Reverse current protection built in, no additional components required. We use XT60 connector to connect 2 cell LiPo 1300ma to the unit, good for about a month of flying!
Output side: Connect to charging leads going to airplane, with a diode in the positive leg (stripe on diode toward airplane). Diode rating should be based on what you plan to hook up to the charger...since voltage and current are both adjustable on this unit you can use it as a general purpose battery charger and you may want to install a heavy duty diode if you intend to do that. If you're only charging little caps you don't need super heavy duty! My jumbo diode came out of a junk toy airplane charger which used 6 "D" alkaline cells to charge a NiMH 4 or 5 cell pack. You can hook up a multimeter to the charger leads (after the diode) to monitor charge of the cap. Or you can use the Baggood mini LED like we use. It has 3 wires...black and red are supply for the meter circuitry and go to the 7.4V input side of the converter....3rd wire (usually yellow) is the sense wire and goes to the positive charger lead, again on the far side of the diode.
We made a second charger for Richie, his used one diode segment on a full-wave bridge rectifier intended for 110V appliance in place of that jumbo unit, that works fine too.
P.S. little extra red LED on output of my charger doesn't do anything, it is a relic of the unit's past life as a toy charger!
Can you just substitute cap motors for rubber in any plane?
Great information
Hey Sonex413 I have a question. I understand with a transfer gear setup and all that but I have to ask
this silly question...why do that? Thanks you 2 got me hooked!
Very educational, thanks.
:))
Glad it was helpful!
Does the connecting clip polarity matter? This is a great video. Many thanks.
Yes, it's possible to charge the thing backwards...and the motor will run backwards....Glad you enjoyed the video, hope you try a supercap plane! Thx for the comment!
I still have several old wood rubber band model kits designs of WW-2 mostly. Just waiting to build that I bought in the 60’s to 70’s. 12” wing span up to 28” wing span. Would these work on my old models.
Yes, absolutely! ...and they never blow up inside the fuselage taking all the formers with them! There is only one drawback to balsa and tissue...have you seen the price of a bottle of clear dope lately? Seriously, the capacitor/electric power systems are ideal for small scale models. Weight is pretty close to an even trade vs rubber...balance is easier because you can put the cap wherever you need it to go...multi-engine is easy, as are designs with short nacelles. The structures can be lightened a bit since they won't have to resist the tension of the rubber motor. Let us know if you build one, we'd love to see it! -Mike
Right now I’m building three model planes plastic 1/48 scale and one 1/32 scale. But I have a Guillow P-47 Thunder bolt plane that I started the body is mostly done. Then I also started the build of a Guillow 15” wing span typhoon plane. I cut out all the parts and started to clean up everything but it ended up put away for now to many other things to fix up or finish up. I have a 5’ speed boat to restore for some body I’m swimming in kit work. I never learned about electric before always wanted to try but never had anyone to learn from. Very kool simple looking projects.
@@lestermiller2717 Let us know if there's anything we can help you out with!
awesome ..Thank you for sharing
Thanks! We subscribed to your channel today! Very nice models you have there! Those little balsa and tissue models like the Prairie Bird would be excellent candidates for a capacitor system! -Mike and Richie, Massachusetts, USA
@@sonex413 thanks.. That's really mean a lot to me.. I've been thinking of supercap powered model.. And you just make it looks easier... Regards
Excellent info - thanks.
Thanks, Stu! We've been having s blast with these little planes. Hope you'll give it a try! Mike and Richie in MA
Excellent! Thank you!
Glad you liked it! Thanks for subbing the channel!
What pitch diameter ratio do you favor?
What's the purpose of adding gear reduction? Instead, you could easily use a smaller prop and the coreless motor would easily provide the rpm necessary to produce a comparable thrust or more.
It was an experiment but worked really well. I don't think anybody makes props that small commercially and smaller props are less efficient anyway.
I need to order capacitors, and etc for the build along plane. Help!!
Here you go:
50mm Props (for 615 motor) 2pr:
www.banggood.com/custlink/3mD3d54e63
615 (6mmx15mm) motors 4pcs:
www.banggood.com/custlink/mDKKwGFfEi
10 Farad supercaps
10pcs:
www.banggood.com/custlink/mGm3fmVTrv
or 5 pcs:
www.banggood.com/custlink/Kv3DYH6g6E
Micro Slide Switches 20pcs:
www.banggood.com/custlink/3K3mdP0668
Well done!
Thanks Chris!
Hi, newbie here! Is there a diagram of how to build the charging port in this video, it looks out of focus, a diagram will be nice!...Thanks!!🙂
Hi, sorry for the delayed reply. There's an explanation and diagram in this video: ruclips.net/video/yJ2Vud3HOpY/видео.html
Watch 5 minutes beginning at 23:00. It doesn't have to look exactly like ours!
Do you ever carve or form your own props?
Em qual tipo de sucata eletrônica eu posso achar esses capacitor de 2.7v 10f
Obrigado pela sua pergunta! Infelizmente, você provavelmente não encontrará este tipo de capacitor em sucata eletrônica. Embora você encontre capacitores com aparência semelhante, ao examinar as marcas, você perceberá que elas possuem uma capacidade de alguma fração de Farad. Eu descobri que a melhor fonte para os "supercondensadores" é a empresa de vendas por correspondência chinesa Banggood. Estes são os que Richie e eu usamos em nossos planos de modelo:
www.banggood.com/5pcs-2_7V-10F-Cylindrical-Ultra-Super-Farad-Capacitor-High-Power-Capacitance-Supercap-10-x-26mm-p-1218354.html?p=AZ31114857064201605K
Mais uma vez, obrigado pelo comentário e pergunta. Esperamos que você assine nosso canal no youtube!
Seus amigos aeromodeladores, Mike e Richie em Massachusetts, EUA
Já me inscrevi
@@GAMESTOP628 Muito obrigado!
you could put 2 caps in parallel and get twice the runtime
We actually do that quite a bit. A good combo is a 8520 motor, 2x 10F caps in parallel and a 65mm prop on a 16 to 20 inch span foamie. Run time about a minute.
I have seen different charge voltages used by different people. Some use 2 AA batteries, some use 3 AA, some use a buck converter to supply constant 4V for a small time. So I have only seen people charging to 3V and higher and no one goes for 2.7V or 2.8 V. I dont know why that is or what is appropriate.
Also, how do I build ur kind of fuselage with my foam plates? Would be nice if u can do a short build video and provide plans :)
Hi, thanks for the comment! I chose the charging voltage and current based on specs I found for a very similar capacitor I found listed on digi-key.com. I wanted to stay well within the ratings of the device to be on the safe side. As I mentioned in the video, these capacitors behave like a dead short when they are not holding a charge (super low internal resistance acts like a short circuit). So, it's important to use a low current supply to charge. AA cells are low amperage whether you use 2 or 3 of them, so no danger there. If you use a buck converter, it should be a current limiting type or at least able to withstand a shorted output for a short time.
I like the idea of making a build video but I can point you in the right direction until that happens. There is a website called outerzone.co.uk where you can download thousands of old-timer plans for free. What I do is pick out the design I want to build and download it (it's a PDF file). I display the plan on my computer screen and adjust the size on the screen until it is the size I want to build. Then I darken the lights in the room and trace the part outlines with tracing paper right over the screen. You might have to play with some of the dimensions a little to allow for the different relative thickness of the foam vs. the original balsa (in most cases) construction. Simplify the structure where appropriate...basically just use the main outlines and improvise the structure out of sheet foam. Just build a box with a couple of formers or bulkheads to hold the shape for the fuselage...the wings and tail are just sheet with a bit of an airfoil sanded in (optional). Traditional balsa and tissue construction will work also. If you go to the outerzone site and search for Ranger 30 by Carl Goldberg you will see the plans I used to build the little red/white and blue/white high wing monoplanes seen in this video. It's a good first project and flies great.
I subbed your channel, great video about those walkalong gliders! Those kids were having a lot of fun and learning a lot at the same time!
sonex413 Thanks!
I had seen ur other flight video where u mentioned Outerzone website. And ur 1+ min flight video was amazing...quute a steep climb and I was surprised it didnt stall..pretty good trimming I guess :)
I am a newbie and am just starting to learn abt supercap FF...just ordered supercapas, motors and props from China...no easy/cheap availability of Balsa here is India so Walkalong has been my main stay...I got TSS rubber through a friend returning from US and achieved very very moderate results with my materials (see the XSticksy 300 video on my channel)- I had to make a paper clip hanger, yogurt cup props, dried stem fuselage etc which wasnt capable of sustaining very high rubber turns before the wire hanger started giving in...I now intend to do away with wire hanger and try a SkyBunny type hanger which I also use in Dragonfly helicopter designed by ScienceToyMaker. So due to TSS availability issues I am now trying a hand at supercap FF as one can get stuff from China. I will be trying 716 and 720 motors.
I got some readings and read some posts on online forums, and lots of people had used 2.5" props on 7mm direct drive motors with good results (they had done tests for max efficiency and max power rpm and put up tables). While the resistance of motors they commonly use is higher from these Chinese motors, I guess the 2.5" (65mm) prop should be good with the 716 and 720 if the airplane weight is within limits. I checked my four 716 motors and their resistance varied- 1.5 ohm 1.6, 1.6, 2.1 ohm. The 7mm motor these other flyers had used, ientified as red, orange and green, had resistances of 2.3, 3.3 and 5.9ohm. The Chinese motors seem to be equivalent what they call Purple and Blue motors (low resistance) and designed for higher initial thrust rather than a sustained thrust.
It would be nice if u could also do a video on various prop-motor combinations acc to airplane weight and wingspan. With geared system, there is only one type available in China which is 5.3:1 reduction, so no other possibilities with that. I am hoping to go for 716 and720 on 65mm prop and geared 5.5" prop, all from China.
Thanks for the report! We are doing the same thing you are doing...finding out what works by trial and error along with a bit of sleuthing on the internet to see what works for others! I agree with your observations on the effect of motor resistance on duration vs. power. The little twin with the 1+ min flights is powered by 2x 614 (3.5 ohm)motors with 45mm props...they came out of a wrecked toy r/c plane. It has a single 10F Banggod cap. The secret to the excellent performance is the wing airfoil, it's a salvaged portion of a molded foam wing from a Micro Radian motorglider. There's a closer look at it in my video with the words "thermal bait" in the title.
The blue/white Ranger 30 in this video has a geared 716 motor with the 5 1/2 in. prop and a 10F cap. Wingspan 18 inches, all 3mm sheet foam. It has a very aggressive initial climb but doesn't have great duration, averaging about 35 seconds. Slow turning prop really kills the glide at the end..perfect when you fly in a tiny area or there's a bit of breeze. The higher performing planes only come out when the air is DEAD!
The 716/720 motor with 65mm prop and 10 Farad cap should be a great combination, my friend Richie was averaging about a minute with a 720 and 55mm prop. There's a video here: ruclips.net/video/Cb6R1GhuVIw/видео.html
No balsa? No problem. I prefer not to use it because it absorbs moisture anyway. If a little extra strength is needed in a foam structure, a bit of clear tape on both sides adds a lot....Bamboo can be split into quite small sizes and and approaches the strength of composites...taper a piece for a great tail boom or wing spar. Happy flying, watch for our videos, and stay in touch! Mike in Massachusetts, USA
sonex413 Thanks Mike! I'll try some things when my items arrive and let you know. Here are the pages where I found some info about those motor tests although the airplanes disccussed on the forum are battery powered...maybe it will help with ur tests and avoid some of the 'reinventing the wheel':
www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?234665-7mm-Super-Slicks-Car-Pager-Motors!!
www.gasparin.cz/page.php?page=rc/articles/superslick/superslick&lng=en
I found some articles on supercaps through a friend that I felt were helpful to me as a novice...I could send them to you if give me ur email id or shoot me an email on "ashu DOT bhakuni AT gmail DOT com"
It is from these above readings that I found that a 65mm prop on direct drive gave them good results and I ordered 65mm instead of 55mm to test what they were saying (although I dont know enough to understand what 'good' mean- some might be aiming for duration and others for power to get it to height for glide..I'd be happy to learn more from you).
Je regarde toutes vos videos et c'est fantastique j'adore mais j'ai essayé de faire des planeurs avec tout ce qui faut: capacitors 10 f ,propeleers 45 cm ou 55mm et j'ai essayé toutes sortes de moteurs comme vous mais rien a faire il ne veulent pas voler mes avions font moins que 20grammes
Pouvez vous m'aider a voir pourquoi mes avions ne volent pas du tout merci
Bonjour, je suis désolé d'apprendre que vous n'avez pas encore eu de succès avec vos modèles! Tout d'abord, assurez-vous que vous utilisez les bons composants. Le condensateur doit être ce qu'on appelle un supercondensateur ou un ultracondensateur. Ils sont généralement évalués à 2,7 volts. Nous avons utilisé un seul condensateur 10 farad couplé à un moteur «sans noyau» de 6 ou 7 mm de diamètre. Les moteurs plus grands de 8,5 mm de diamètre nécessitent (2x) 10 condensateurs farad câblés en parallèle. Tous les moteurs que nous utilisons sont évalués à 3,7 volts, c'est-à-dire qu'ils étaient à l'origine utilisés dans des appareils fonctionnant avec une pile au lithium de 3,7 volts. La plupart sont destinés à être utilisés dans de petits quadricoptères. Voici les spécifications d'un petit modèle typique:
Envergure: 32 cm Poids en vol: 11,5 g Aire de l'aile: 135 cm ^ 2 "615" moteur (6 mm de diamètre x 15 mm de longueur) et (1) 10 Farad, 2,7 volts supercondensateur L'hélice mesure 50 mm sur ce modèle. Cette combinaison vole environ 30 secondes en moyenne.
Pour un modèle dans la gamme de 18-20g, je suggère un moteur de 8,5 mm de diamètre x 20 mm de longueur avec une hélice de 65 mm ainsi que (2) condensateurs 10F en parallèle.
Bonne chance et si vous avez d'autres questions, faites-le moi savoir. -Mike
@@sonex413 mERCI BEAUCOUP POUR LA REPONSE ET C'EST TOUT CE MATERIEL QUE J'UTILISE MAIS AUCUN NE VEULENT VOLER ?POURTANT J'AI TOUT ESSAYE LES SUPER CONDENSATEURS 10,7,60 ET 2X 10FARAD ET TOUT LES MOTEURS 6,7,8,10 MM ET LE POIDS EST BON AUSSI SUR CERTAINS ,, JE NE COMPREND PAS ?J'AI DEJA FAIT UNE DIZAINE D'AVIONS DE TOUTE SORTENT MAIS RIEN A FAIRE ILS NE DECOLLE PAS ?MAIS JE N'ABANDONNE PAS BONNE CONTINUATION POUR VOUS C'EST UN REGAL DE REGARDER VOS VIDEOS ET JE SUIS JALOUX quel poids ne peut on pas depasser?
@@noramghislain1258 Salut, Si vous regardez au tout début de cette vidéo, vous verrez trois petits modèles. Au centre se trouve un petit modèle rouge et blanc avec une aile haute montée. Dans ma réponse précédente, j'ai énuméré les spécifications d'un modèle typique ... Ce sont, en fait, les spécifications de ce modèle. Le petit modèle biplan utilise le même équipement ... et le plus grand modèle bleu et blanc (qui est en fait une version plus grande du plus petit) utilise un moteur de 7 mm avec une réduction de vitesse et une hélice plus grande. Si vous avez vérifié que vous utilisez le bon équipement, la seule chose qui reste est la charge du condensateur. Vous devriez utiliser deux piles «AA» connectées en série appliquées aux bornes du condensateur pendant environ 10 à 15 secondes. Vous pouvez lire la tension du condensateur pendant la charge en connectant un voltmètre aux bornes du condensateur pendant la charge. Une charge complète permet au condensateur de contenir environ 2,7 à 2,8 volts. Câblez les composants et testez-les sur l'établi avant de les installer dans le modèle. Vous devez observer une forte poussée pendant environ 15 secondes, avec un ralentissement progressif et une durée totale de fonctionnement d'environ 30 à 60 secondes. J'espère que ces informations vous aideront! -Mike
@@sonex413 Merci pour votre reponse ,je fais des essais et vous tiens au courant
What kind of discarded devices might have 10 farad caps?
Not used in many consumer devices...I've never seen one in its natural environment. They are generally used in power backup systems to overcome temporary interruptions in power supply. They have applications in computer memory backup power, etc. Best source we've found is Banggood.
@@sonex413
I had a few power transformers. 15000 mf @ 50V. Big as a beer can too. Nice transistors in them though. I'll keep an eye out. I'm always finding stuff with circuit boards worth salvaging.
@@sonex413
Im making a video today if everything goes right. I make motorized paper airplanes out of microdrones. I've made a few of them so I got it down pretty good. Ill let you know how it turns out.
@@AngryHybridApe Wow! 15000mf means it could probably kill an elephant! I found some really good 10Farad 3V supercaps on ebay recently, they are sold as "18V 1.6Farad capacitor module" and has 6 10F 3V caps on a circuit board (series wired) along with some small surface mount components which serve as a balancer for the caps. Since they are wired to the board in series you get 18 volts (3Vx6) and 1.6F (10F /6=1.6F). They can be desoldered from the board and they have a bit of an advantage over the typical 2.7 volt caps. We have flown a few and they are AOK. Same dimensions as 2.7v 10F. I bought 5 boards and harvested all the caps!
@@sonex413
You should see the transformers that came with them. A little bigger than microwave oven transformers. But thats because the secondary winding was huge.
I have posted some model build photos on Hippocketaeronautics.com - ''Capacitor powered electrics vs. rubber'' under the name SX976. All inspired by the sonex413 team!! Thanks a lot guys. I am particularly happy with the Avro Manchester. Whenever lockdown ends I will be able to fly them.
Hi Chris, I was not aware of that site. Looks great so I registered (user Sonex413 of course). Hey, your Manchester is a beauty! I think there are many possibilities for caps to replace rubber when it comes to scale or semi-scale models, especially multi engine or designs with short nacelles, etc. My latest is a scale model of a semi-scale model! That is, a half-size replica of the old single channel R/C Goldberg Cessna Skylane powered with 8520 coreless and 20 Farads. I'm also awaiting a test flight but I'll post a picture on the community tab of my channel before that. Stay safe my friend, at least we're getting some building done during this lockdown! -Mike
What about a solar cell to charge it?
Certainly possible but not as convenient as a rechargeable source battery. Would be pretty cool, tho'...
@@sonex413
Yeah. But then again I wouldnt fly these at night. It all comes down to whichever I find first in all my crap. 😂
@@AngryHybridApe Happy Hunting!
@@sonex413
Every day a few times.
Luar biasa
Terima kasih, dan terima kasih juga telah berlangganan saluran saya! Anda akan menemukan tautan ke kapasitor, motor, dll, dalam deskripsi teks video ini. Semoga berhasil dengan pesawat Anda! Mike dan Richie di Massachusetts, AS
@@sonex413 Salam kenal saya Widyas Utomo dari Indonesia ...kreasi anda luar biasa...saya sangat suka.
@@widyasutomo Kami senang memiliki pelanggan dan teman baru!
Hi Mike!
Can I use this step down DC converter to charge a 1S 3.7V battery (say 1000mah) using 5V or 12V adapter so that I can then charge the supercap with the lipo? How? Does it need some extra component to be add to the converter?
Yes, this little converter will charge almost any kind of battery since both the output voltage and output current (amps) are adjustable. A heavy duty diode should be installed on the positive output (band on diode away from converter) between the converter and the battery to be charged, to provide back-current protection for the circuit. The input side of the converter has reverse polarity protection built in and needs no extra parts. Since there is a voltage drop through the diode, the charging voltage should be measured/monitored right at the battery terminals, not on the converter's display. The output voltage with no load attached should be set (by means of left-hand trim pot)at the finishing voltage of the battery to be charged. To set the desired charge rate (Amps) you short the output leads and adjust the right-hand trim pot to display the desired value in amps on the little screen. I believe most lipos can accept a charge at the so-called one hour rate, for example, on a 1000mah battery, limit charge rate to 1000ma. I hope this helps rather than confuses you, if any part isn't clear enough feel free to ask for more! Really, I should make a video about it!-Mike
sonex413 Thanks Mike! I think I understood most of what you wrote. I supply input power with my adapter, attach the diode to output positive terminal in fwd bias, measure voltage at the output terminals including diode with another multimeter, adjust out voltage without battery, and adjust current by shorting terminals..right?
While measuring output current by shorting terminals the value on converter's screen should be seen or there too another multimeter should be used and diode should be added before shorting? I have a pretty cheap multimeter that I dont think is safe for ampere measurements.
In ur another video u set the supercap charging current to 800mA..that value should be taken as a rough standard for charging with any other lipo?
I havent use lipos nor am well versed with semiconductors...These 3.7V lipos should be charged to 3.7V only? I saw a video which used 4.2V but commenters said that it reduces life. Also, can u pls tell the part name for ur heavy duty diode so that i can look it up or its substitute?
And a video would definitely help a lot of people :)
Thanks!
Your first paragraph is all correct. When setting output amps, read directly on unit screen, no multimeter needed. The reason you need it to check output voltage is the voltage drop over the diode. 800ma charge rate at about 3.1 Volts is what I use for 10Farad caps. I use a different charger for my Lipos but I read about people using these converters for charging Lipos in the customer comments section on Banggood's product description page. I believe 4.2 Volts is correct float voltage for 3.7 Volt Lipo cell. Sorry I don't have diode part number as it came out of salvaged toy airplane charger....On my friend's identical field charger we used one section of a full wave bridge rectifier in place of the diode...again, part came from junk box so no part number! Just use something strong enough to check the back flow of the battery you are going to charge...Bigger battery, bigger diode. Hope this helps, don't be shy about asking more questions! -Mike
sonex413 Thanks Mike. I saw the product description on banggood and realised that the 3.7V 1S lipo wont work with this converter for charging the supercap as it requires a min 1.5V voltage difference between input and output. So a 3.1V output would need at least 4.6V input. Your 2S lipo is sufficient for this. I havent bought the lipo or diode and wanted to be sure of the specifications before I decided to buy. I guess I will stick to the simple and cheap AA charging. :) Oh, and I read that the voltage drop across a diode in fwd bias is 0.7V so I guess thats gives a rough idea about the drop.
Nevertheless for learning, the diode should be chose as per the C value of the lipo and its current rating should be seen..so 25C lipo should have at least 25A diode? I could see max 10A and 1000V or 600V diodes available here.
I'm using my field charger only for capacitors so the diode I'm using has been perfect for the job. I have an old Triton charger that I use to keep my 2S 1300mah Lipos charged. One of my Lipos fully charged lasts for about a month of capacitor flying! Richie and I used AA alkalines for quite a while before we built our chargers, it's the best and easiest way to get started and you can build a charger later if you find you are flying a lot. When we were using the AA's we were still using a voltmeter to measure the state of charge at the capacitor. This becomes more important as the batteries wear down and it takes longer to reach full charge.
Concerning amp rating of diodes...wish I knew more about what it actually does in the circuit. I wonder if it's only there to protect against accidentally hooking up the load backwards? Or maybe it has a function during normal charging also? All I know is that I have read references to adding a diode and using the unit to charge various batteries. Mainly saw those comments in the customer comments section on Banggood. 10Amp 1000Volt diode doesn't sound right! LOL I think we are missing something! -Mike
Can i use a 1A 3.7v phone battery?
No, I'm afraid not. It will supply too many Amps. You see, that 1 Amp rating actually means 1 amp-Hour. It is a measure of total battery capacity, in this case, it would power a 1 Amp load for 1 Hour on a full charge. The Amps available in the case of a low resistance load like a supercap would be much, much higher. You really need to use a low current source like AA batteries or a regulated power supply as in the video. Thanks for a very good question, hope you'll subscribe to the channel! Mike
@@sonex413 Thanks for the answer, and the informative video! One day I'll be flying an 80F A321NEO out in a field :)
@@sonex413 but what if my cap has a 10v rating?
I don't know of any supercapacitors with a 10 V rating. What you may have is a regular electrolytic capacitor. Watch the first part of the video where I explained the difference between a supercap and a regular electrolytic cap. Wikipedia has a lengthy article about supercaps which goes into great detail...history, development, theory of operation, charging etc. if you want the entire story. Good luck with your experiments!
@@sonex413 2 weeks in and I received my first four motors!
Now I'll need help. Can I contact you through Facebook?
I believe the motors you recommend are no longer available. The link you provide ( www.banggood.com/4X-Original-... ) comes up as "Page Not Found" Is there another motor you recommend for this setup?
And thanks a bunch for doing the video....very informative.
Hi, thanks for letting me know, I'll take care of updating that link! Any of those little hobby-grade 615 motors will work, as well as just about any small coreless motor. Here are some that are currently in stock and work well. Don't hesitate to experiment with different sizes of motors and props! Have fun, =Mike and Richie in Massachusetts.
www.banggood.com/4X-Racerstar-615-6x15mm-59000RPM-Coreless-Motor-for-Eachine-E010C-E010S-Blade-Inductrix-Tiny-Whoop-p-1115473.html?p=AZ31114857064201605K&custlinkid=720929
Why?? Why switch off??? Was timing that!
That’s a long wind-down!
It will slowly spin for several minutes but there is only useful power during the initial burst. It more or less free-wheels which helps the glide ever so slightly,