I feel you on that curiosity on what allows Mike to sing the way he does without having any of the drawbacks people usually have if not singing properly. Which is why I'm glad I found him. I'm the same way with my voice. I try to do as many sounds with my voice as possible now, and for me it's also a stylistic choice but my voice has never had any issues from it either.
"Oh, there's somebody singing with him. Oops." Lol When you first noticed the other tone, the video was paused on the bassist at the mic and you were looking right at him. Poor guy, drink some turmeric tea, fell better. That part was pretty funny but I also appreciate your deconstruction of this phenom. Thanks.
What I like about you is, that even though you're not the only voice teacher here on RUclips, you might be the one who focuses the most on bad parts/habits in singing. I like that philosophy, because keeping good habits makes your career longer as a singer. Simple, isn't it? And yet not many people mention it. Strange.
Zach, I just wanted to say that I dropped out of following your channel for a while, but Im still amazed by the level of detail you put in your videos and how far you've come! Your knowledge is excellent and I will continue to donate to your patreon. Keep up the good work!
He definitely is naturally creating that high scream. In songs like Jockstrap by Tomahawk he screams a pitch so high its ear piercing and it doesn't have any overtones.
Sometimes his screams don't have the formant sound, for sure. I just don't see how it is physically possible for the mechanism to be able to balance the pressure caused from the incredible speed of vibration required to make a pitch that high. I mean there have been operatic tenors who have ruptured blood vessels and the like merely attempting to chest voice pitches around treble clef D and Eb with no head voice. There IS a chance that it is a whistle register but it still doesn't explain the secondary tone he creates.
Sounds to me like hes descending and the delay masks the transition so the low note heard last is where he ends up/terminates at. Cant hear the low note simultaneously with the cat high register..sounds like he goes there at the end of the scream to me. Like you said pretty fascinating stuff. Even in 92 he was doing this stuff. The 'applause' line in Malpractice with FNM for example and im pretty sure he was using that sound at the 92 warfield gig too. Also he tells a story about a cat in the 'Making of Angel Dust vid and does some of this sound. Im working on the theory that hes actually Toshio from 'The Grudge'. Fantastic vids. Nice one.
In the '90s Mike was in Budapest (where I live) with Faith No More almost every year. On the King for a Day tour he "screamed" Ugly in the Morning, then he was pretty much hoarsen and struggled with singing. Then he started to do his crazy stuff... What a showman too! Great video! (And sorry for my English.)
I think part of the reason his voice has been able to handle so much over the years is that he hasn't relied on any one technique all of the time. Sure, his technique isn't always great, it will put a strain on a specific part of his vocal cords or a certain muscle. But he only uses it once or twice in a song, and not on every song. And for many projects, there will be plenty of techniques he doesn't use at all or only uses extremely rarely. So a tour with Faith No More or Mr. Bungle may put a lot of strain on his voice because of the screaming and crazy sounds. But then the next tour with Mondo Cane he's basically doing all clean singing.
That might explain some but Patton's voice is obviously unnaturally resilient compared to the vast majority. Not all people are built the same. They have shown evidence that certain people have stronger ligaments are more resilient to injuries in physical activities(partly why some athletes can have less injuries). I'm sure all of the physical advantages can transfer to your voice.
20:36 the sound is e6, so, well, very high, but far from impossible. what makes it unique is how strong and full range he makes that falsetto. notice there is also a lot of effect on that part, some kind of a modulated delay which keeps the sound and slightly overdubs it as he goes down with the pitch. and Mike is a natural screamer, I love it, but what would be much more difficult for him would be actually do that part non screamo
That is created at the top of the throat at the soft pallet and back of the throat just before going nasal. With control it will allow you to harmonize with yourself.
I love how you really dissect Mike Patton's style, rather than just creaming your pants over him like most "vocal coach reacts to Mike Patton" videos lol. You're very interesting to listen to.
Patton ran his mics through a rack with a Marshall JMP1 preamp for guitar, and a Boss RV5 reverb a lot in the early 2000s. I believe that overtone is essentially using the preamp the way a guitarist, kind of like a "pinch" harmonic. The Distortion of the preamp gain stage exaggerates the resonance of the overtone.
All of the theories are wrong, it's created when you constrict your larynx into a tiny, ting tightened space, and it has nothing to do with the mic or effects. When I do it I can put my finger about 1/2" into the front of my throat because the muscles have tightened it into this tiny tiny space. Formant pitch, if I understand you correctly, is more akin to overtone singing like Tuvan throat singing (which both Patton and I can kinda do, but not the way real practitioners do). So there's a secondary pitch but the shriek isn't an overtone, it comes from way down lower in the throat. Throat constriction and incredible control over the aperture to control the pitch. On good days I can do it without a sustain at all, just incredibly high "pings" that are very pure, and incredibly loud.
5:45 well, what we hear is actually 4 tracks of voice here. we have mike, trevor, trey, and one more sampled/modulated voice. there is a lot of playback background voices when it comes to bungle live. how come you are a voice teacher and not hear it?
@@BenjaminKuruga Oh geez, thanks man. I was in such rough shape when I made this. I would hardly call that clean, I was just trying to squawk out a tone to give people a point of emphasis of what to listen for.
Have you considered that some of his screams involve sucking in air rather than singing normally (i.e., outwardly)? This is one way that extreme metal vocalists get very high or very low sounds that can have that sort of dual frequency sound. One can get much higher sounds that are naturally 'distorted' when you do that. Classical singers are often totally unaware of such a technique in my experience. Of course Patton has a reverb effect here, but I think most of the sound is his own voice.
I am absolutely sure that this is a way that he gets certain methods of phonation, but inhalatory phonation in the VAST majority of cases is one of the absolute most destructive things an individual can do with his or her voice, and I would never advocate it in any setting whatsoever.
@@Zachsvocalanalysis Oh it is without doubt a destructive way of vocalising! One only has to try one big scream using this technique and you can definitely feel it. But if used judiciously it can add an unusual sound to a song section. Perhaps it is another example of Patton being able to do such things without the usual negative sequelae? A truly amazing and unique vocalist. Nice to hear your technical critique.
How can you tell that it's not just a pitch effect on the microphone? In the first instance he steps away from the computer, then screams, and back to the computer before singing normally. In the second instance he sings normally, then moves over to the computer right before the scream. Seems like the simplest explanation, to me, considering the layers.
Mostly because I know how to create formant frequencies myself from singing opera, and I know what they sound like. There is a chance that I am wrong about this, of course, and I really am speculating since very rarely can any individual create these kinds of pitches. Anytime you are dealing with statistical outliers like this you can only definitively analyze so much. I know that there are effects involved for sure because of all of the delay and the reverb, but the fact remains that he does indeed create two pitches at once in many different scenarios through his career. Moonchild, which I briefly referenced is relatively raw in terms of vocal effects and he still creates the formant sound. As I mentioned, this is how Tuvan throat singing is done as well as opera so it isn't as though the idea of a formant is unprecedented, its just that in this case the prevalence of the formant sound in comparison to the modal sound is mindboggling... assuming of course that it is indeed a formant. :)
@@Zachsvocalanalysis Thank you for explanation! I found this range compilation, which adds to ones disbelief. Going very high or very low is one thing, but both? This man is a human piano! ruclips.net/video/uDgPeUCF0sc/видео.html
@@Zachsvocalanalysis He has done opera too with the album Athlantis with Evind Kang, while recording that album Mike said it was extremely hard to do without the microphone. i also believe he has learned a lot from John Zorn which is his mentor and friend.
Hey zach I know its been a while since you posted this vid, but I think i have some insight into how mike patton does the scream in "carry stress in the jaw" I'm pretty sure it is essentially a sung note as i can perform it, if youd like i can get in contact with you and show you.
I thought it was funny, you at one point stopped the video and said it sounds like there is another track, but you had the video stopped on the bass player singing along. I tried to listen to see if there was something I was missing, but you were hearing the background singer. I think when he's doing that high pitch instead of blowing air out he's sucking air in. I can do that to a point, not as good as he does though. Mike Patton is a good singer and I love that he makes many sounds. If you ever heard of King Diamond he does the same thing and its wild listening to someone with that talent. I'm guessing King Diamond is doing something right because now he's in his 60's and still going. If you listen to a song from him I'd say Abigale would be a good one, but he tends to also write rock operas.
Yeah, that was dumb of me. I thought it was funny though so I left it in instead of editing it out. It sounded like overdubs because their vocal blend was really good. Thats how it sounds when two people have a really good unison sound, and I should have recognized it right off the bat.
@@Zachsvocalanalysis I think there's at least 4 guys doing vocals in most of the Bungle gigs from the California tour, and in that song (Mike, Trevor Dunn, Trey Spruance, James Rotundi)
He has an awesome vocal intrument that is backed up with two of the most important differencial aspects: 1- legit guts performance singing of context. 2- interest on exploring/discovering the vocal instrument in a free creative way. Simple as that, I could be wrong.
Another great video, thank you so much! I have a different theory for the squeals, check out Mary Z's explanation on whistle fry screams (demonstrated on a Dir En Grey analysis) --> ruclips.net/video/3delZoBa1J8/видео.html (4:56 if you wanna jump) I'd say what Mike does there is the exact same thing. Let me know what you think!
That squealing is hard to pinpoint because of the combination of technology used but my theory is that he's using the tech highly to his advantage. I believe that squeal had it's pitch and strength enhanced by a combination of advantageous mic distortion and the echo/reverb used. Don't get me wrong, it would still take incredible talent to take advantage of the technology in such a way and there is sound he has discovered to make with his voice that can be manipulated in such a way to achieve such results. I think the best comparison would be Tom Morello. He does a similar thing with his guitar. He's learned to utilise both his own style of playing and technology to achieve the sounds he makes that are most definitely unique to him. I wouldn't consider him to be one of the best singers out there by any stretch but he is definitely one of if not the greatest vocalist due in large part to what he does with his voice.
@@j800r All good just saying he isn't one of the best singers is false since he can sing tons of styles and his voice has never went out. I think what you mean is he doesn't have one of the best sounding natural voices out of singers
No disrespet but trained singer's don't sound as good as natural ones I mean look at Mike he even smokes but his voice stayed strong or ville valo he smokes in every show and he smokes a lot but his voice is angelic
![Fantômas & Mr. Bungle - Rock Squad Special (Viva 2) [Full]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/mbDxnYyPQHQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I feel you on that curiosity on what allows Mike to sing the way he does without having any of the drawbacks people usually have if not singing properly. Which is why I'm glad I found him. I'm the same way with my voice. I try to do as many sounds with my voice as possible now, and for me it's also a stylistic choice but my voice has never had any issues from it either.
"Oh, there's somebody singing with him. Oops." Lol When you first noticed the other tone, the video was paused on the bassist at the mic and you were looking right at him. Poor guy, drink some turmeric tea, fell better. That part was pretty funny but I also appreciate your deconstruction of this phenom. Thanks.
This was probably the most interesting analysis you've done. Can't wait for the video on his Italian period.
What I like about you is, that even though you're not the only voice teacher here on RUclips, you might be the one who focuses the most on bad parts/habits in singing. I like that philosophy, because keeping good habits makes your career longer as a singer. Simple, isn't it? And yet not many people mention it. Strange.
Zach, I just wanted to say that I dropped out of following your channel for a while, but Im still amazed by the level of detail you put in your videos and how far you've come! Your knowledge is excellent and I will continue to donate to your patreon. Keep up the good work!
Can you do Layne Staley
Yes...that's Trevor, a pretty little swiss miss milk maid
He definitely is naturally creating that high scream. In songs like Jockstrap by Tomahawk he screams a pitch so high its ear piercing and it doesn't have any overtones.
Sometimes his screams don't have the formant sound, for sure. I just don't see how it is physically possible for the mechanism to be able to balance the pressure caused from the incredible speed of vibration required to make a pitch that high. I mean there have been operatic tenors who have ruptured blood vessels and the like merely attempting to chest voice pitches around treble clef D and Eb with no head voice.
There IS a chance that it is a whistle register but it still doesn't explain the secondary tone he creates.
Sounds to me like hes descending and the delay masks the transition so the low note heard last is where he ends up/terminates at. Cant hear the low note simultaneously with the cat high register..sounds like he goes there at the end of the scream to me. Like you said pretty fascinating stuff. Even in 92 he was doing this stuff. The 'applause' line in Malpractice with FNM for example and im pretty sure he was using that sound at the 92 warfield gig too. Also he tells a story about a cat in the 'Making of Angel Dust vid and does some of this sound. Im working on the theory that hes actually Toshio from 'The Grudge'. Fantastic vids. Nice one.
In the '90s Mike was in Budapest (where I live) with Faith No More almost every year. On the King for a Day tour he "screamed" Ugly in the Morning, then he was pretty much hoarsen and struggled with singing. Then he started to do his crazy stuff... What a showman too! Great video! (And sorry for my English.)
He was doing his "crazy stuff," pre KFAD
I believe he is actually sucking air in as opposed to expelling air to get that "formant singing" bit.
I learned to do it as a child.
I think part of the reason his voice has been able to handle so much over the years is that he hasn't relied on any one technique all of the time. Sure, his technique isn't always great, it will put a strain on a specific part of his vocal cords or a certain muscle. But he only uses it once or twice in a song, and not on every song. And for many projects, there will be plenty of techniques he doesn't use at all or only uses extremely rarely.
So a tour with Faith No More or Mr. Bungle may put a lot of strain on his voice because of the screaming and crazy sounds. But then the next tour with Mondo Cane he's basically doing all clean singing.
That might explain some but Patton's voice is obviously unnaturally resilient compared to the vast majority. Not all people are built the same. They have shown evidence that certain people have stronger ligaments are more resilient to injuries in physical activities(partly why some athletes can have less injuries). I'm sure all of the physical advantages can transfer to your voice.
20:36 the sound is e6, so, well, very high, but far from impossible. what makes it unique is how strong and full range he makes that falsetto. notice there is also a lot of effect on that part, some kind of a modulated delay which keeps the sound and slightly overdubs it as he goes down with the pitch. and Mike is a natural screamer, I love it, but what would be much more difficult for him would be actually do that part non screamo
That is created at the top of the throat at the soft pallet and back of the throat just before going nasal. With control it will allow you to harmonize with yourself.
holy shit I am really enjoying this analysis
I'm sure he hit that note on a scream. He's capable of going even higher an octave. Some of his vocal range videos can show it.
At 20:24 , isn't that an inhale scream?
@@philipschulze8213 By being Mike Patton :D
Naked City covered alot territory all in one song
+1
I love how you really dissect Mike Patton's style, rather than just creaming your pants over him like most "vocal coach reacts to Mike Patton" videos lol. You're very interesting to listen to.
Patton ran his mics through a rack with a Marshall JMP1 preamp for guitar, and a Boss RV5 reverb a lot in the early 2000s. I believe that overtone is essentially using the preamp the way a guitarist, kind of like a "pinch" harmonic. The Distortion of the preamp gain stage exaggerates the resonance of the overtone.
24:20 ive head Patton doing this "high screaming" you talking about in many bootlegs...
I forgot to mention... looks like you, like myself, are a huge fan of him
All of the theories are wrong, it's created when you constrict your larynx into a tiny, ting tightened space, and it has nothing to do with the mic or effects. When I do it I can put my finger about 1/2" into the front of my throat because the muscles have tightened it into this tiny tiny space. Formant pitch, if I understand you correctly, is more akin to overtone singing like Tuvan throat singing (which both Patton and I can kinda do, but not the way real practitioners do). So there's a secondary pitch but the shriek isn't an overtone, it comes from way down lower in the throat. Throat constriction and incredible control over the aperture to control the pitch. On good days I can do it without a sustain at all, just incredibly high "pings" that are very pure, and incredibly loud.
5:45 well, what we hear is actually 4 tracks of voice here. we have mike, trevor, trey, and one more sampled/modulated voice. there is a lot of playback background voices when it comes to bungle live. how come you are a voice teacher and not hear it?
Can't believe you managed to talk for (I assume) an hour or so while sick. My throat would be so sore.
Yeah I'm still kinda roughed up, and I have student recitals today at work, so that's going to be fun. :)
@@Zachsvocalanalysis Also, kind of surprised to here you sing that F#/G4 at 26:02. Very clean note.
@@BenjaminKuruga Oh geez, thanks man. I was in such rough shape when I made this. I would hardly call that clean, I was just trying to squawk out a tone to give people a point of emphasis of what to listen for.
@@Zachsvocalanalysis Well given what range you sing most comfortably in (I assume low G to E4 from the videos I've seen) that was a nice note, haha
Have you considered that some of his screams involve sucking in air rather than singing normally (i.e., outwardly)? This is one way that extreme metal vocalists get very high or very low sounds that can have that sort of dual frequency sound. One can get much higher sounds that are naturally 'distorted' when you do that. Classical singers are often totally unaware of such a technique in my experience. Of course Patton has a reverb effect here, but I think most of the sound is his own voice.
I am absolutely sure that this is a way that he gets certain methods of phonation, but inhalatory phonation in the VAST majority of cases is one of the absolute most destructive things an individual can do with his or her voice, and I would never advocate it in any setting whatsoever.
@@Zachsvocalanalysis Oh it is without doubt a destructive way of vocalising! One only has to try one big scream using this technique and you can definitely feel it. But if used judiciously it can add an unusual sound to a song section. Perhaps it is another example of Patton being able to do such things without the usual negative sequelae? A truly amazing and unique vocalist. Nice to hear your technical critique.
@@michaeldavis3489 Yeah for sure. Patton is just a total exception to virtually every 'rule' of phonation that exists. An absolute freak.
How can you tell that it's not just a pitch effect on the microphone? In the first instance he steps away from the computer, then screams, and back to the computer before singing normally. In the second instance he sings normally, then moves over to the computer right before the scream. Seems like the simplest explanation, to me, considering the layers.
Mostly because I know how to create formant frequencies myself from singing opera, and I know what they sound like. There is a chance that I am wrong about this, of course, and I really am speculating since very rarely can any individual create these kinds of pitches. Anytime you are dealing with statistical outliers like this you can only definitively analyze so much. I know that there are effects involved for sure because of all of the delay and the reverb, but the fact remains that he does indeed create two pitches at once in many different scenarios through his career. Moonchild, which I briefly referenced is relatively raw in terms of vocal effects and he still creates the formant sound.
As I mentioned, this is how Tuvan throat singing is done as well as opera so it isn't as though the idea of a formant is unprecedented, its just that in this case the prevalence of the formant sound in comparison to the modal sound is mindboggling... assuming of course that it is indeed a formant. :)
@@Zachsvocalanalysis Thank you for explanation! I found this range compilation, which adds to ones disbelief. Going very high or very low is one thing, but both? This man is a human piano!
ruclips.net/video/uDgPeUCF0sc/видео.html
@@Zachsvocalanalysis He has done opera too with the album Athlantis with Evind Kang, while recording that album Mike said it was extremely hard to do without the microphone. i also believe he has learned a lot from John Zorn which is his mentor and friend.
Hey zach I know its been a while since you posted this vid, but I think i have some insight into how mike patton does the scream in "carry stress in the jaw" I'm pretty sure it is essentially a sung note as i can perform it, if youd like i can get in contact with you and show you.
Its a inhaled scream. Difficult but not impossible. Very few can do it.
I thought it was funny, you at one point stopped the video and said it sounds like there is another track, but you had the video stopped on the bass player singing along. I tried to listen to see if there was something I was missing, but you were hearing the background singer.
I think when he's doing that high pitch instead of blowing air out he's sucking air in. I can do that to a point, not as good as he does though.
Mike Patton is a good singer and I love that he makes many sounds. If you ever heard of King Diamond he does the same thing and its wild listening to someone with that talent. I'm guessing King Diamond is doing something right because now he's in his 60's and still going. If you listen to a song from him I'd say Abigale would be a good one, but he tends to also write rock operas.
the first 8 minutes I was like "DUHHH"
can two different people sing at the same time?
Yeah, that was dumb of me. I thought it was funny though so I left it in instead of editing it out. It sounded like overdubs because their vocal blend was really good. Thats how it sounds when two people have a really good unison sound, and I should have recognized it right off the bat.
@@Zachsvocalanalysis I think there's at least 4 guys doing vocals in most of the Bungle gigs from the California tour, and in that song (Mike, Trevor Dunn, Trey Spruance, James Rotundi)
He has an awesome vocal intrument that is backed up with two of the most important differencial aspects: 1- legit guts performance singing of context. 2- interest on exploring/discovering the vocal instrument in a free creative way. Simple as that, I could be wrong.
You should react to two really weird singers: Demetrio Stratos (from the Italian Prog band Area) and Serji Tankian
Believe it or not mr bungle had three or more people singing at once that is how they pulled of that ambiance
2 tracks on mikes vocals? Pthhhhbt
Clean those goobies out of your ears sir
More Ronnie James Dio, pls :)
Another great video, thank you so much! I have a different theory for the squeals, check out Mary Z's explanation on whistle fry screams (demonstrated on a Dir En Grey analysis) --> ruclips.net/video/3delZoBa1J8/видео.html (4:56 if you wanna jump) I'd say what Mike does there is the exact same thing. Let me know what you think!
Another good example coming from a different singer: 11:07 in the vid I linked above
That squealing is hard to pinpoint because of the combination of technology used but my theory is that he's using the tech highly to his advantage. I believe that squeal had it's pitch and strength enhanced by a combination of advantageous mic distortion and the echo/reverb used. Don't get me wrong, it would still take incredible talent to take advantage of the technology in such a way and there is sound he has discovered to make with his voice that can be manipulated in such a way to achieve such results. I think the best comparison would be Tom Morello. He does a similar thing with his guitar. He's learned to utilise both his own style of playing and technology to achieve the sounds he makes that are most definitely unique to him.
I wouldn't consider him to be one of the best singers out there by any stretch but he is definitely one of if not the greatest vocalist due in large part to what he does with his voice.
+J Ryan I think what your getting confused is there is a difference between liking the way someone's voice sounds and someone's actual singing ability
Joshua Fult Nope. I fully understand the separation. I never said I dislike his voice. In fact, I praised him so those no need to defend him.
Welcome to my life as a RUclipsr :)
@@j800r All good just saying he isn't one of the best singers is false since he can sing tons of styles and his voice has never went out. I think what you mean is he doesn't have one of the best sounding natural voices out of singers
Inward singing
He's just an alien 😂💀 that is all.
No disrespet but trained singer's don't sound as good as natural ones I mean look at Mike he even smokes but his voice stayed strong or ville valo he smokes in every show and he smokes a lot but his voice is angelic
The guy looks like Arin from Game Grumps
Expressivity? Gotta love americans lol