Great video and nice message. I have a Unicomp New Model M purhcased in November 2021 and absolutely love the feel and sound of this thing. So much, that I've actually ordered the older Classic 104 in Beige since I wanted that color scheme. I know the tooling on the Classic 104 Model M is not supposed to be as refined as the New Model M, but I'm excited to compare and couldn't resist the old color way, since Beige is all the rage :)
Thanks a lot sir for amazing video I got mine grey logo terminal from 1992 for about $200 but they have been restored, cleaned,screw moded,coated in the plate Model m quiet rare at my asian country And i think thats a pretty good deal because of the keyboard had been restored If i have choosed the unicomp model m that will cost me about $229 Because unicomp doesnt ship their stuff to my country Indonesia I need to pay the third party people who does ship to Indonesia Im really sorry for bad english pronunciation
I confirm that original SSKs are in huge demand. Only a few pop on Ebay in Europe and I just lost an auction to a guy that was willing to pay up to 400 euros for it. Also it was for an ANSI layout, which is foreign to us. An ISO would likely be bought for even more here. Good common 104 models are being sold for 250 to 300€.
Now that Unicomp pulled the Mini M again it's only going to get worse. I've got a Mini M now and it's great, hopefully they'll be available in Europe sooner rather than later.
Yes, don't get me wrong, they are great feeling and well built but between IBM and Lexmark alone they made millions of the things. The $100 for busted boards trend just doesn't make sense.
got my model m for 100 it was super clean all the keys work its a 1994 ibm model m and it works amazing i brought it to school pepole loved it but probubly not the noise lol
I miss the good old days of when you could pick these up, and old IBM XT Machines in dumpsters... and what annoys me more is, i had so much of this stuff and now i don't, and now i want it, and its to expensive to replace! haha Keep up the good work!
Thanks for the PSA, I have been looking for one of the '85 models and the only ones I have found were at absurd prices. Glad to know not to fall for it (although the '85 one does seen kind of rare, what would you pay for it?) Although my personal favourite odd thing I found relating to model M was a "model m compatible" ps2 to USB adaptor for 25€ the product page for the thing had a whole paragraph about how other adapters wouldn't work with the model m and my personal favourite part: talking about how modern ps2 ports (because a lot of gaming mobos still have ps2) will "not correctly interpret IBM proprietary signals" idk who came up with that, but I hope nobody fell for it.
Sorry for the late reply, but on the adapter part these due require an active PS/2 adapter that due tend to be a little more expensive but not that much. I'd say you can get a decent adapter for 1/2 that amount. As to modern PS/2 ports I have noticed my X399 motherboard's PS/2 port does not like older keyboards in general and I have to use a Soarer's USB adapter with my classic Ms, Northgates, Focuses, etc. Boards from about 2000 on wards it's ok with though. Not sure if it's a power problem or if the "hyper gamer lol megargb lulz" high polling rate it brags about on the box has something to do with it.
I agree. I have been in the hunt for an IBM Model M keyboard in good condition for a long time now and the prices that sellers want for them are ridiculous. I am just patiently waiting for one to present itself for the right price from the right seller.
They're out there, just takes some patience. I'd suggest also suggest expanding your search to "IBM keyboard" or "IBM" in general. I've ran across a few lately being sold online by people who didn't really know exactly what it was and just listed in on eBay/Craigslist/FB market place under a general moniker. It's kinda rare but it does happen.
It boggles my mind when I see people pricing them for MORE than a New Model M from Unicomp. Like, at this point with the revised tooling Unicomp has I'd rather get one of theirs for 130$ rather than spend 300$+ on an original
I noticed the other day that Unicomp has raised their prices quite a bit. Still, at $150 it’s better than gambling on what’s left of the vintage Model Ms out there. However I’ve noticed vintage keyboard prices coming down a lot in the last 6 months. I think all the fuss has moved over to the new high end and custom board scene.
Considering what the original retail costs of these were if you scaled them up for inflation the current market is if anything low. These were expensive keyboards when they were new. It's part of why IBM and many other company's were pressured into doing the rubber dome era. Which isn't to say that also didn't benefit those companies. One of the issues with the model m's from a business standpoint is as you've pointed out. With minimal amounts of modding you can get a 35 year old keyboard up and running as if brand new again in a matter of a few hours work. These were pretty hard keyboards to destroy. These were one of those "The last one you'll ever need to buy" sort's of purchases. And that's just bad business. Selling a 20 dollar rubber dome keyboard that you make 10 dollars profit on might seem a lot less appealing then selling a model m that costs 300 dollars and you make 100 dollars profit. But considering those membranes we'll need to be replaced in a high volume work flow as often as twice per year and your model m's will likely never need to be replaced that different in profit quickly shifts into the favor of the membrane.
Just be patient there are auctions going for reasonable prices. If you live near a large educational institution (even just a large public school system) go check around where they sell of their surplus goods. My county also has an eWaste recycling drop off that they don't care if you look around at. Scored a Tandy 1000 that way, most of my Apple keyboards came from public schools throwing stuff out too.
@@EJ22bakadesu I live in India so the odds of me finding one is really low. After watching your video, I am seriously considering just getting a unicomp board instead.
@@Karan_HDS Ah, ok my apologies for assuming a US centered view. I'm not sure how common Model Ms ever were outside of the US and EU. IBM struggled to make sales in Asia in the 70-90s at all. I've got a couple of Japanese IBM keyboards from that time really cheap new in box because no one ever bought them. There were a lot of Asian based electronics/PC makers that were way more popular there than IBM was at that time.
I have a unicomp model m it works pretty good it's had a couple cups of coffee so that probably will lower the life span a little Haven't used it a lot because of the 2 key roll
Use the free utility SharpKeys to redefine your Right-Cntrl key to be the Windows key. Additionally, I redefined these other useless keys... Scroll Lock to be Mute; Insert to Be Play Pause; Right Alt to be Application Key. If you have better ideas for redefinitions, let me know.
Uhhh $6.72 .... ;) That's a good question, but really it depends on the board. Bog standard oval badge 101 key 2nd gen boards are not worth more than a brand new Unicomp I'd say. So compare the new 2020 M with shipping to your location for a general idea and that IMO is for a board in perfect working condition. If it needs work (most from the late 80s/early 90s will need something) really think about how much that vintage look is worth to you. Actual rarities like the vintage SSK, industrial grey boards, oddball branded ones, etc just keep getting more expensive so if you want one I'd not sit on it too long. All that being said it's a rapidly changing market and things have only gotten more expensive in the 6 months since I've made this video. But my recommendation to get a Unicomp 2020 M for a daily driver is still what I stand by. They are great value for money, work right out of the box, are USB native and have a warranty. The vintage stuff is quickly heading to the realm of collectors or people who know how to restore a broken one.
@@EJ22bakadesu ty was just wondering. Bought my dad a model m for xmas. Was seaching for a propor model m since like august. Couldnt find one used unfortunately so ended up paying 130$ on ebay for a fully restored one. I wouldn't have payed the 250+ though that seemed far fledged even for a prrson that isnt in the vintage scene.
It is still the case here in 2022 August ebay prices in the uk are a scam 200-400 gbp like for godsake i really want to get one but i cant find one for cheap
I think that another reason for vintage keyboard prices might very well be youtubers like Chyrosran and LGR. Whether they mean to or not, their videos cause the value on the boards they review to shoot up.
whats your opinion on the pricing of model f keyboards, especially F107s and F122s? i've seen the 107s go for about 2500$ on deskthority. are they really that rare?
Certain versions of the Model F are pretty rare. I think the F122 and F-AT are among those. The whole Model F line was only made for ~5 years. Would I pay $2500 for one? No. $250? Probably depending on condition. The issue with Fs is they're even older and are likely going to need repair too but unlike with the Ms you can't get spare parts for them as easily. I think there's someone selling reproduction foam for them now. How much of that foam has rotted out depends on storage and use.
I have one of the Unicomps from the time their moulds and other tooling was pretty much worn out. It's still a great keyboard that is far more comfortable than any sub £100 keyboard. The only problem is the noise - I was asked to not use it in the office it's so loud. So I bought a Filco for the office but still use the Unicomp at home in preference to the 90s Model M that I've owned since new. As you point out, those originals are getting very old and most have seen a lot of wear!
They are totally repairable though since Unicomp will sell you any internal part. Even the membrane can be replaced with a little work to adapt the new membrane. The important things are the steel backplate and the PVC shell, all else can be replaced with brand new parts. Biggest issue is the plastic part with the chimneys coming undone from the backplate, a screw mod can be time consuming and the plastic used for that isnlt as durable as the PVC shell so it might have become brittle and split. But again you can just buy a new one from Uniucomp for $20 and put it on the old backplate. Model Ms should never ever EVER be thrown out, they are almost always fixable and if not they are still valuable sources of spare parts like the original heavy backplate or membrane, etc.
I've noticed several international commenters now saying similar things! It seems like these are far rarer in parts of Europe and Asia. Although I find it weird since IBM made Ms for the European market in Ireland in the 80s/90s. Seems like their should be plenty still kicking around but maybe they didn't sell as well as other brands.
You are spoiled from the days when people were just throwing them away. The problem is 2 fold. Demand has increased because of the nostalgia factor and because more people know about it. The more people know about it, the chances are that they will price it on the market as opposed to just selling as "old beige keyboard". Unicomps are nice but owning a unicomp is not the same. Model m keyboards represent a rich history. I have infinite respect for unicomp though. I appreciate that they are keeping this alive. The bigger unicomp becomes, the more expensive original ibm keyboard will be. Great video nonetheless. Thanks!
Sure, but there were still millions made and they are by no means rare yet. There is a factor of "paying what the market will bear" but there's no planet an old beige M with missing key caps should sell for ~$130 like some of the listings I pointed out. I would consider the nostalgia and collectors market different from someone just looking for a nice keyboard. If you're the latter just buy the Unicomp and be happy. There's a stigma on the Unicomps from that classic model they sold made from the 40 year old worn out tooling. However the 2020 New M and Mini M really aren't bad at all and should not be confused with their 101 key classic boards. Some appreciation of value is expected but I think we're in a period of nostalgia and FOMO fueled stupidity right now.
@@EJ22bakadesu I'd say it's similar to what people are doing in the typewriter market. They made over 4 million Underwood 5, 3,4, and 6 models. Whenever I see one online, however, the seller wants $300-750 for a rusty piece of junk that hasn't even been serviced yet. I found a 6 (very common) at a peddler's mall MARKED DOWN from $750 to $350. It had a laminated post of an ebay posting ziptied to it. Rusty pos. I eventually found one for $40 in dirty condition.
@@pcblah I've got a few IBM Selectrics and Wheelwriters so I know what you're talking about. Selectrics were made for almost 40 years and you have to be extremely mechanically minded to service one but I've seen Facebook marketplace postings lately that basically amount to "no low ballers I know what I got" for $400 for an untested unit. I keep trying to find spares and part machines for mine.
Even if you don't care for unicomp made model Ms they are willing to supply internal spare parts that you'd have to salvage from other model Ms otherwise, like the membrane or the barrelframe. Most other manufacturers would just ignore your email if you asked to order some random internal part from one of their products.
I have never seen a motherboard without a PS2 keyboard connector though that could be because I never bother with anything other than "enthusiast" MBs.
Vintage Keyboard price are getting out of hand. Especially the Dell AT101 and Northgate Omnikey they never cost $200 when it was new. These eBay keyboard sellers need to get mental check to get out of fantasy and go back to reality that these vintage mechanical keyboards don’t worth that much even if it better than a modern mechanical keyboard
Yeah, the omnikey is nice but not $200. Especially considering you’ll probably need to rehab at least a couple of switches. I picked up a couple way back when it was “I don’t want this old thing anymore” from the dump.
Yeah, I paid like $60 including shipping for my at101w. The keycaps were pretty unevenly yellowed but otherwise it was fine-ish. As is usual with Alps SKCM Black, they were really scratchy so I just linearized and lubed them and it was all good. Decent for $60 honestly.
I have a Model M keyboard from 1992. So I guess mine too is a 2nd gen. Model M. However, its OEM'ed to Dell with the old Dell Logo with the 2 blue lines above and below. PN: 1397651. Would that be considered rare? I am using it as my daily driver for my office computer. I own 2 others, an Ultra Classic and a 122 from Unicomp, with one more 122 on the way. The Dell is my only vintage Model M. The only thing that I can tell, is that the Dell keyboard has "slightly" stiffer key springs and had only lost 3 of it's original plastic rivets. My Ultra Classic, from 2017, had to be bolt modded. The 122s are from 2021, so no modding yet. It says something about a 29 year old keyboard vs. a 4 year old Model M. As they saying goes "They just don't make them they way they used to." 😁
A few notes: Unicomp boards are noticeably worse than the IBM equivalents. That is why original ones from the 80s and early to mid 90s should demand higher prices. Otherwise, they are quite rare in Europe aswell.
Have you tried the 2020 Unicomp New M? I would agree that Unicomp's Classic (the ones shaped like the old Ms) are bad but their newer stuff off their new tooling is not bad. They do sound different due to the vinyl vs rubber backing though. I've got everything from square badge IBMs to a few different Unicomps in my box. Granted people are picky. I've had comments on my videos about the Unicomp boards about how they're trash because of the mold ejection marks on the back of the case. The mold ejection mark comments are really funny because those have been there on IBM M's since the 90s at least and they're on the back of the case that sits on your desk. I'm sorry but if you're looking at that you're using your keyboard wrong.
@@EJ22bakadesu Haven't tried a New M as shipping from the US is expensive and not practical. I dislike the New M because of the cheaply integrated cable and non attractive color scheme. The Mini M however addressed the cable, but it's color scheme is still unappealing to me.
@@jugostran I have to disagree a bit in terms of Unicomp today. Whilst they're definitely not perfect, their latest tooling and moulds as OP said are rather good and their new single-piece keycap moulds have are pretty slick. In terms of dye sublimation, Unicomp latest keycaps are more sharper than vintage IBM with only the text alignment being on average worse than vintage. That said, I've seen a few mid '80s Model Fs with attrious text alignment, so in my opinion, this is an issue that is woven into the family. In terms of Unicomp of old, then I agree there's a lot more issues. But, it's clear Unicomp is phasing out the old keyboards now, and once they've drained their old stock of keycaps in the near future, all their keycaps will likely be of their latest quality. In regards to the integrated cable, I agree it's not the best thing in the worst, but it's certainly not a Unicomp-exclusive issue. Like with the lock-light placement, IBM UK/Lexmark introduced the non-coiled and bare cable with P/N 42H1292 in 1995 (the keyboard Unicomps are architecturally based on). Europe is a big place, so the question of rarity depends on where you're talking about. In Western Europe (UK, France and Germany especially), they are far from rare despite being usually absurdly priced. In Eastern Europe, I'd agree they're rare. The main thing we can agree on is the need for beige versions of the keyboard. I like their black keyboards, but I like beige just a little bit better.
@@EJ22bakadesu That last part made me chuckle. I remember seeing this (or a similar) complaint on deskthority when the New Model M first came out. Yet, this issue was already apparent during the prime era of Model Ms in the '80s: sharktastica.co.uk/resources/images/articles/newm_review/newm_m122_dimples.jpg. You don't notice it as much since the keyboards are beige, but you could on some Type I and II "battleship" M122s since they had glossy non-textured bottoms.
@@EJ22bakadesu I bought 3 unicomps in the early 2010s about 10 years ago now. Within a couple of years 2 all 3 of them developed dead key issues. I don't care about mold marks or slight imperfections, but I find it very hard to trust unicomp again. At the same time my IBM Model-M has been my main keyboard and in constant use for the past 15 years without issue. I hope unicomp fixed any issues they were having, and I will probably give them another chance at some point, but the complaints about the quality of unicomp as opposed to IBM Model-M keyboards are real.
They are actually pretty rare. My dad ran a computer recycling charity through the 1990's. Hundreds of obsolete 8bits and PC's he rescued headed for the dumpster being thrown out by businesses and schools upgrading entire labs or their whole office at a time. I went through his barn of hundreds of keyboards the other day an only pulled out 8 of these, all from some PS/2 Model 50 386's he brought home and summarily junked... but kept the keyboards in the keyboard pile. Every single one of them works... impressive considering they've been sitting in a barn for 25 years smashed together in a pile on a bread rack. At one time you are correct, they were not rare... now.. to find a PS/2 keyboard from an actual PS/2... very rare. Almost as rare as finding a Mac Lisa or Mac 128k keyboard. Nobody hung onto them. And why would you, when you could get a brand new $10 keyboard that wasn't grungy versus something heavy and old and built like a tank. They really were not prized back in the 1990's at all but considered old junk. PS/2s and OS/2 got orphaned on the computer tree of life and the keyboards went out into the dumpster with the PS/2s as everyone jumped on the whitebox build your own PC bandwagon. There are not as many of these as you might think I don't plan to sell any of mine. I just paid through the nose for a few replacement missing cables. The rats bit through all my cables for a taste but the shielding stopped them in every case. I had to hot glue over the bite marks though. They really are sweet to type on, if you're coming from rubber dome keyboards. i plan to standardize on my PS/2 Model M's as they are all identical to one another, which is rare. Other than hot gluing over the barn rat cable taste bites, I didn't have to do anything to mine. Rock tank solid. THIS TECH RECYCLING PLACE IS NOT PARTING WITH IT'S MODEL M KEYBOARDS. SOWWY! You can pick through our pile of used rubber dome generic keyboards though for free... I would not trade any of these "about to fail Model M's" for that brand new black Unicomp keyboard. Twenty five years (1997) in a non-temperature controlled barn and every key still working like a champ... yeah... that's time tested durable. These badboys scream Original Gangsta. :) If someone had given you 8 obsolete PS/2 Model 50 10mghz 286's in 1995 would you have saved them and their keyboards, when you're rocking a Pentium 100mghz..? The answer for both you and my dad was a clear "no"... the PS/2's went to the dumpster even for a dumpster diver like my dad... but the keyboards ended up overlooked by a chance of fate. Only by luck did they too not end up in the dumpster as heavy old junk with the 286 PS/2s... Thanks dad for looking out for me :)
Millenials getting nostalgic with Model-M??? Please do explain how a millenial were alive between the early 1980's to late 1990's. Naaa.... If millenials were to get nostalgic about stuff, then it would be stuff from around 2005 and onwards. If anyone were to get nostalgic about Model-M, then it would be Gen-X and Gen-Y. We grew up with Model-M.
That's the zoomers you're thinking of, millennials are 40 and have back problems now. Millennials were born early 80s to mid-to-late-90s depending on whatever definition you look up. I had a PCAT with a Model F in middle school as a hand-me-down in middle school during the 90s.
@@EJ22bakadesu Millenials are born from around 1995 to now. Generation X is born from around 1965 to 1977. Generation Y is from around 1977 to around 1995. Generation Z is millenials, and they do not really have nostalgic attachments to Model-M. You can also call Gen-Z for millenials. Calling Gen-X and Y are not millenials. Exactly like boomers are not Gen-X. And trust me, people have called me a boomer. Like WTF!! I am not the same age as my mother. Just like my father, born in 1943, is from the silent generation.
I love that you perfectly coordinated the color of your bandaid with the IBM logo. That's real attention to detail.
I try hard.
They are not rare in NA, but for example finding one in eastern Europe or Europe in general is not that easy, and even more expensive.
Great video and nice message. I have a Unicomp New Model M purhcased in November 2021 and absolutely love the feel and sound of this thing. So much, that I've actually ordered the older Classic 104 in Beige since I wanted that color scheme. I know the tooling on the Classic 104 Model M is not supposed to be as refined as the New Model M, but I'm excited to compare and couldn't resist the old color way, since Beige is all the rage :)
How do they compare, in your experience?
Thanks a lot sir for amazing video
I got mine grey logo terminal from 1992 for about $200 but they have been restored, cleaned,screw moded,coated in the plate
Model m quiet rare at my asian country
And i think thats a pretty good deal because of the keyboard had been restored
If i have choosed the unicomp model m that will cost me about $229
Because unicomp doesnt ship their stuff to my country Indonesia
I need to pay the third party people who does ship to Indonesia
Im really sorry for bad english pronunciation
I confirm that original SSKs are in huge demand.
Only a few pop on Ebay in Europe and I just lost an auction to a guy that was willing to pay up to 400 euros for it.
Also it was for an ANSI layout, which is foreign to us. An ISO would likely be bought for even more here.
Good common 104 models are being sold for 250 to 300€.
Now that Unicomp pulled the Mini M again it's only going to get worse. I've got a Mini M now and it's great, hopefully they'll be available in Europe sooner rather than later.
"They are about as rare as Tattoo's on a Millennial" 😂😂
The prices are really getting ridiculous...
Love your opinion on google!
Yes, don't get me wrong, they are great feeling and well built but between IBM and Lexmark alone they made millions of the things. The $100 for busted boards trend just doesn't make sense.
@@EJ22bakadesu I feel the same.
I mean if it would be an new old stock one ok but those that I see on Ebay are usually in mediocre condition.
Also I can say that because I'm a millennial, no tattoos though.
got my model m for 100 it was super clean all the keys work its a 1994 ibm model m and it works amazing i brought it to school pepole loved it but probubly not the noise lol
I miss the good old days of when you could pick these up, and old IBM XT Machines in dumpsters...
and what annoys me more is, i had so much of this stuff and now i don't, and now i want it, and its to expensive to replace! haha
Keep up the good work!
Thanks! I definitely don't have a closet of old IBM boards for a retirement plan. Nope, not at all.
Thanks for the PSA, I have been looking for one of the '85 models and the only ones I have found were at absurd prices. Glad to know not to fall for it (although the '85 one does seen kind of rare, what would you pay for it?)
Although my personal favourite odd thing I found relating to model M was a "model m compatible" ps2 to USB adaptor for 25€ the product page for the thing had a whole paragraph about how other adapters wouldn't work with the model m and my personal favourite part: talking about how modern ps2 ports (because a lot of gaming mobos still have ps2) will "not correctly interpret IBM proprietary signals" idk who came up with that, but I hope nobody fell for it.
Sorry for the late reply, but on the adapter part these due require an active PS/2 adapter that due tend to be a little more expensive but not that much. I'd say you can get a decent adapter for 1/2 that amount.
As to modern PS/2 ports I have noticed my X399 motherboard's PS/2 port does not like older keyboards in general and I have to use a Soarer's USB adapter with my classic Ms, Northgates, Focuses, etc. Boards from about 2000 on wards it's ok with though. Not sure if it's a power problem or if the "hyper gamer lol megargb lulz" high polling rate it brags about on the box has something to do with it.
I agree. I have been in the hunt for an IBM Model M keyboard in good condition for a long time now and the prices that sellers want for them are ridiculous. I am just patiently waiting for one to present itself for the right price from the right seller.
They're out there, just takes some patience. I'd suggest also suggest expanding your search to "IBM keyboard" or "IBM" in general. I've ran across a few lately being sold online by people who didn't really know exactly what it was and just listed in on eBay/Craigslist/FB market place under a general moniker. It's kinda rare but it does happen.
Thank you so much for your advice. It will definitely come in handy.
It boggles my mind when I see people pricing them for MORE than a New Model M from Unicomp. Like, at this point with the revised tooling Unicomp has I'd rather get one of theirs for 130$ rather than spend 300$+ on an original
I noticed the other day that Unicomp has raised their prices quite a bit. Still, at $150 it’s better than gambling on what’s left of the vintage Model Ms out there. However I’ve noticed vintage keyboard prices coming down a lot in the last 6 months. I think all the fuss has moved over to the new high end and custom board scene.
Considering what the original retail costs of these were if you scaled them up for inflation the current market is if anything low. These were expensive keyboards when they were new. It's part of why IBM and many other company's were pressured into doing the rubber dome era. Which isn't to say that also didn't benefit those companies. One of the issues with the model m's from a business standpoint is as you've pointed out. With minimal amounts of modding you can get a 35 year old keyboard up and running as if brand new again in a matter of a few hours work. These were pretty hard keyboards to destroy. These were one of those "The last one you'll ever need to buy" sort's of purchases. And that's just bad business. Selling a 20 dollar rubber dome keyboard that you make 10 dollars profit on might seem a lot less appealing then selling a model m that costs 300 dollars and you make 100 dollars profit. But considering those membranes we'll need to be replaced in a high volume work flow as often as twice per year and your model m's will likely never need to be replaced that different in profit quickly shifts into the favor of the membrane.
Having recently started appreciating keyboards, I probably would have spent a lot to get a model M. Appreciate the perspective.
Just be patient there are auctions going for reasonable prices. If you live near a large educational institution (even just a large public school system) go check around where they sell of their surplus goods. My county also has an eWaste recycling drop off that they don't care if you look around at. Scored a Tandy 1000 that way, most of my Apple keyboards came from public schools throwing stuff out too.
Just don't want people paying ~$100 for a roughed up 30 yr old M missing keycaps and whatever else when a brand new Unicomp goes for that much.
@@EJ22bakadesu I live in India so the odds of me finding one is really low. After watching your video, I am seriously considering just getting a unicomp board instead.
@@EJ22bakadesu oh and by the way, your humor in the video was on point. Great job, my man. Edit: spelling
@@Karan_HDS Ah, ok my apologies for assuming a US centered view. I'm not sure how common Model Ms ever were outside of the US and EU. IBM struggled to make sales in Asia in the 70-90s at all. I've got a couple of Japanese IBM keyboards from that time really cheap new in box because no one ever bought them. There were a lot of Asian based electronics/PC makers that were way more popular there than IBM was at that time.
I have a unicomp model m it works pretty good it's had a couple cups of coffee so that probably will lower the life span a little Haven't used it a lot because of the 2 key roll
Hmm, OK, thanks for stopping by. Maybe take it easy on the caffeine though bro. :)
Use the free utility SharpKeys to redefine your Right-Cntrl key to be the Windows key.
Additionally, I redefined these other useless keys... Scroll Lock to be Mute; Insert to Be Play Pause; Right Alt to be Application Key. If you have better ideas for redefinitions, let me know.
How much would u say is overpay, like in a number?
Uhhh $6.72 .... ;)
That's a good question, but really it depends on the board. Bog standard oval badge 101 key 2nd gen boards are not worth more than a brand new Unicomp I'd say. So compare the new 2020 M with shipping to your location for a general idea and that IMO is for a board in perfect working condition. If it needs work (most from the late 80s/early 90s will need something) really think about how much that vintage look is worth to you.
Actual rarities like the vintage SSK, industrial grey boards, oddball branded ones, etc just keep getting more expensive so if you want one I'd not sit on it too long.
All that being said it's a rapidly changing market and things have only gotten more expensive in the 6 months since I've made this video. But my recommendation to get a Unicomp 2020 M for a daily driver is still what I stand by. They are great value for money, work right out of the box, are USB native and have a warranty. The vintage stuff is quickly heading to the realm of collectors or people who know how to restore a broken one.
@@EJ22bakadesu ty was just wondering. Bought my dad a model m for xmas. Was seaching for a propor model m since like august. Couldnt find one used unfortunately so ended up paying 130$ on ebay for a fully restored one. I wouldn't have payed the 250+ though that seemed far fledged even for a prrson that isnt in the vintage scene.
It is still the case here in 2022 August ebay prices in the uk are a scam 200-400 gbp like for godsake i really want to get one but i cant find one for cheap
I think that another reason for vintage keyboard prices might very well be youtubers like Chyrosran and LGR. Whether they mean to or not, their videos cause the value on the boards they review to shoot up.
whats your opinion on the pricing of model f keyboards, especially F107s and F122s? i've seen the 107s go for about 2500$ on deskthority. are they really that rare?
Certain versions of the Model F are pretty rare. I think the F122 and F-AT are among those. The whole Model F line was only made for ~5 years. Would I pay $2500 for one? No. $250? Probably depending on condition. The issue with Fs is they're even older and are likely going to need repair too but unlike with the Ms you can't get spare parts for them as easily. I think there's someone selling reproduction foam for them now. How much of that foam has rotted out depends on storage and use.
I have one of the Unicomps from the time their moulds and other tooling was pretty much worn out. It's still a great keyboard that is far more comfortable than any sub £100 keyboard. The only problem is the noise - I was asked to not use it in the office it's so loud. So I bought a Filco for the office but still use the Unicomp at home in preference to the 90s Model M that I've owned since new. As you point out, those originals are getting very old and most have seen a lot of wear!
They are totally repairable though since Unicomp will sell you any internal part. Even the membrane can be replaced with a little work to adapt the new membrane. The important things are the steel backplate and the PVC shell, all else can be replaced with brand new parts.
Biggest issue is the plastic part with the chimneys coming undone from the backplate, a screw mod can be time consuming and the plastic used for that isnlt as durable as the PVC shell so it might have become brittle and split. But again you can just buy a new one from Uniucomp for $20 and put it on the old backplate.
Model Ms should never ever EVER be thrown out, they are almost always fixable and if not they are still valuable sources of spare parts like the original heavy backplate or membrane, etc.
I used a rubber dome model M years ago--I think. IMHO, they're actually pretty good.
i have one same year as this and i hope to keep it is a daily use keyboard for the rest of my life given ofc ill have to upkeep with it.
You should see how much these thing sell for on Ebay in the UK!! The prices you mentioned are actually cheap in comparison.
I've noticed several international commenters now saying similar things! It seems like these are far rarer in parts of Europe and Asia. Although I find it weird since IBM made Ms for the European market in Ireland in the 80s/90s. Seems like their should be plenty still kicking around but maybe they didn't sell as well as other brands.
You are spoiled from the days when people were just throwing them away.
The problem is 2 fold. Demand has increased because of the nostalgia factor and because more people know about it.
The more people know about it, the chances are that they will price it on the market as opposed to just selling as "old beige keyboard".
Unicomps are nice but owning a unicomp is not the same. Model m keyboards represent a rich history.
I have infinite respect for unicomp though. I appreciate that they are keeping this alive. The bigger unicomp becomes, the more expensive original ibm keyboard will be.
Great video nonetheless. Thanks!
Sure, but there were still millions made and they are by no means rare yet. There is a factor of "paying what the market will bear" but there's no planet an old beige M with missing key caps should sell for ~$130 like some of the listings I pointed out.
I would consider the nostalgia and collectors market different from someone just looking for a nice keyboard. If you're the latter just buy the Unicomp and be happy. There's a stigma on the Unicomps from that classic model they sold made from the 40 year old worn out tooling. However the 2020 New M and Mini M really aren't bad at all and should not be confused with their 101 key classic boards.
Some appreciation of value is expected but I think we're in a period of nostalgia and FOMO fueled stupidity right now.
@@EJ22bakadesu I'd say it's similar to what people are doing in the typewriter market. They made over 4 million Underwood 5, 3,4, and 6 models. Whenever I see one online, however, the seller wants $300-750 for a rusty piece of junk that hasn't even been serviced yet. I found a 6 (very common) at a peddler's mall MARKED DOWN from $750 to $350. It had a laminated post of an ebay posting ziptied to it. Rusty pos.
I eventually found one for $40 in dirty condition.
@@pcblah I've got a few IBM Selectrics and Wheelwriters so I know what you're talking about. Selectrics were made for almost 40 years and you have to be extremely mechanically minded to service one but I've seen Facebook marketplace postings lately that basically amount to "no low ballers I know what I got" for $400 for an untested unit. I keep trying to find spares and part machines for mine.
@@EJ22bakadesu I feel lucky that I even got my Selectric II for $29, but it isn't a correcting model. Oh well, beggars can't be choosers.
Even if you don't care for unicomp made model Ms they are willing to supply internal spare parts that you'd have to salvage from other model Ms otherwise, like the membrane or the barrelframe. Most other manufacturers would just ignore your email if you asked to order some random internal part from one of their products.
I have never seen a motherboard without a PS2 keyboard connector though that could be because I never bother with anything other than "enthusiast" MBs.
It's getting more common. Seeing it on more corporate (OptiPlex) machines recently.
Vintage Keyboard price are getting out of hand. Especially the Dell AT101 and Northgate Omnikey they never cost $200 when it was new. These eBay keyboard sellers need to get mental check to get out of fantasy and go back to reality that these vintage mechanical keyboards don’t worth that much even if it better than a modern mechanical keyboard
Yeah, the omnikey is nice but not $200. Especially considering you’ll probably need to rehab at least a couple of switches. I picked up a couple way back when it was “I don’t want this old thing anymore” from the dump.
Yeah, I paid like $60 including shipping for my at101w. The keycaps were pretty unevenly yellowed but otherwise it was fine-ish. As is usual with Alps SKCM Black, they were really scratchy so I just linearized and lubed them and it was all good. Decent for $60 honestly.
I have a Model M keyboard from 1992. So I guess mine too is a 2nd gen. Model M. However, its OEM'ed to Dell with the old Dell Logo with the 2 blue lines above and below. PN: 1397651. Would that be considered rare? I am using it as my daily driver for my office computer. I own 2 others, an Ultra Classic and a 122 from Unicomp, with one more 122 on the way. The Dell is my only vintage Model M. The only thing that I can tell, is that the Dell keyboard has "slightly" stiffer key springs and had only lost 3 of it's original plastic rivets. My Ultra Classic, from 2017, had to be bolt modded. The 122s are from 2021, so no modding yet. It says something about a 29 year old keyboard vs. a 4 year old Model M. As they saying goes "They just don't make them they way they used to." 😁
A few notes:
Unicomp boards are noticeably worse than the IBM equivalents. That is why original ones from the 80s and early to mid 90s should demand higher prices.
Otherwise, they are quite rare in Europe aswell.
Have you tried the 2020 Unicomp New M? I would agree that Unicomp's Classic (the ones shaped like the old Ms) are bad but their newer stuff off their new tooling is not bad. They do sound different due to the vinyl vs rubber backing though. I've got everything from square badge IBMs to a few different Unicomps in my box.
Granted people are picky. I've had comments on my videos about the Unicomp boards about how they're trash because of the mold ejection marks on the back of the case. The mold ejection mark comments are really funny because those have been there on IBM M's since the 90s at least and they're on the back of the case that sits on your desk. I'm sorry but if you're looking at that you're using your keyboard wrong.
@@EJ22bakadesu Haven't tried a New M as shipping from the US is expensive and not practical.
I dislike the New M because of the cheaply integrated cable and non attractive color scheme.
The Mini M however addressed the cable, but it's color scheme is still unappealing to me.
@@jugostran I have to disagree a bit in terms of Unicomp today. Whilst they're definitely not perfect, their latest tooling and moulds as OP said are rather good and their new single-piece keycap moulds have are pretty slick. In terms of dye sublimation, Unicomp latest keycaps are more sharper than vintage IBM with only the text alignment being on average worse than vintage. That said, I've seen a few mid '80s Model Fs with attrious text alignment, so in my opinion, this is an issue that is woven into the family. In terms of Unicomp of old, then I agree there's a lot more issues. But, it's clear Unicomp is phasing out the old keyboards now, and once they've drained their old stock of keycaps in the near future, all their keycaps will likely be of their latest quality.
In regards to the integrated cable, I agree it's not the best thing in the worst, but it's certainly not a Unicomp-exclusive issue. Like with the lock-light placement, IBM UK/Lexmark introduced the non-coiled and bare cable with P/N 42H1292 in 1995 (the keyboard Unicomps are architecturally based on).
Europe is a big place, so the question of rarity depends on where you're talking about. In Western Europe (UK, France and Germany especially), they are far from rare despite being usually absurdly priced. In Eastern Europe, I'd agree they're rare.
The main thing we can agree on is the need for beige versions of the keyboard. I like their black keyboards, but I like beige just a little bit better.
@@EJ22bakadesu That last part made me chuckle. I remember seeing this (or a similar) complaint on deskthority when the New Model M first came out. Yet, this issue was already apparent during the prime era of Model Ms in the '80s: sharktastica.co.uk/resources/images/articles/newm_review/newm_m122_dimples.jpg. You don't notice it as much since the keyboards are beige, but you could on some Type I and II "battleship" M122s since they had glossy non-textured bottoms.
@@EJ22bakadesu I bought 3 unicomps in the early 2010s about 10 years ago now. Within a couple of years 2 all 3 of them developed dead key issues. I don't care about mold marks or slight imperfections, but I find it very hard to trust unicomp again. At the same time my IBM Model-M has been my main keyboard and in constant use for the past 15 years without issue. I hope unicomp fixed any issues they were having, and I will probably give them another chance at some point, but the complaints about the quality of unicomp as opposed to IBM Model-M keyboards are real.
They are actually pretty rare. My dad ran a computer recycling charity through the 1990's. Hundreds of obsolete 8bits and PC's he rescued headed for the dumpster being thrown out by businesses and schools upgrading entire labs or their whole office at a time.
I went through his barn of hundreds of keyboards the other day an only pulled out 8 of these, all from some PS/2 Model 50 386's he brought home and summarily junked... but kept the keyboards in the keyboard pile. Every single one of them works... impressive considering they've been sitting in a barn for 25 years smashed together in a pile on a bread rack.
At one time you are correct, they were not rare... now.. to find a PS/2 keyboard from an actual PS/2... very rare. Almost as rare as finding a Mac Lisa or Mac 128k keyboard. Nobody hung onto them. And why would you, when you could get a brand new $10 keyboard that wasn't grungy versus something heavy and old and built like a tank. They really were not prized back in the 1990's at all but considered old junk. PS/2s and OS/2 got orphaned on the computer tree of life and the keyboards went out into the dumpster with the PS/2s as everyone jumped on the whitebox build your own PC bandwagon. There are not as many of these as you might think
I don't plan to sell any of mine. I just paid through the nose for a few replacement missing cables. The rats bit through all my cables for a taste but the shielding stopped them in every case. I had to hot glue over the bite marks though. They really are sweet to type on, if you're coming from rubber dome keyboards. i plan to standardize on my PS/2 Model M's as they are all identical to one another, which is rare.
Other than hot gluing over the barn rat cable taste bites, I didn't have to do anything to mine. Rock tank solid.
THIS TECH RECYCLING PLACE IS NOT PARTING WITH IT'S MODEL M KEYBOARDS. SOWWY!
You can pick through our pile of used rubber dome generic keyboards though for free...
I would not trade any of these "about to fail Model M's" for that brand new black Unicomp keyboard. Twenty five years (1997) in a non-temperature controlled barn and every key still working like a champ... yeah... that's time tested durable. These badboys scream Original Gangsta. :)
If someone had given you 8 obsolete PS/2 Model 50 10mghz 286's in 1995 would you have saved them and their keyboards, when you're rocking a Pentium 100mghz..? The answer for both you and my dad was a clear "no"... the PS/2's went to the dumpster even for a dumpster diver like my dad... but the keyboards ended up overlooked by a chance of fate. Only by luck did they too not end up in the dumpster as heavy old junk with the 286 PS/2s...
Thanks dad for looking out for me :)
Low profile, rubber domes are an improvement.
If you want to sell me a model M for $30, I'll buy it...
Millenials getting nostalgic with Model-M??? Please do explain how a millenial were alive between the early 1980's to late 1990's.
Naaa.... If millenials were to get nostalgic about stuff, then it would be stuff from around 2005 and onwards. If anyone were to get nostalgic about Model-M, then it would be Gen-X and Gen-Y. We grew up with Model-M.
That's the zoomers you're thinking of, millennials are 40 and have back problems now. Millennials were born early 80s to mid-to-late-90s depending on whatever definition you look up. I had a PCAT with a Model F in middle school as a hand-me-down in middle school during the 90s.
@@EJ22bakadesu Millenials are born from around 1995 to now. Generation X is born from around 1965 to 1977. Generation Y is from around 1977 to around 1995. Generation Z is millenials, and they do not really have nostalgic attachments to Model-M. You can also call Gen-Z for millenials. Calling Gen-X and Y are not millenials. Exactly like boomers are not Gen-X. And trust me, people have called me a boomer. Like WTF!! I am not the same age as my mother. Just like my father, born in 1943, is from the silent generation.
@@brostenen Basically every demographer says you're wrong: www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/17/where-millennials-end-and-generation-z-begins/
@@EJ22bakadesu Yeah... By that standard, boomers are millenials as well, because they are still alive.
@@CyberAndy_ No. I am thinking about generation X. (1964 to 1984)