@@immaheadout4777 I am aware and I agree, at least on the national level. But state legislatures turning all one way or the other is what is really the last nail in the coffin in my opinion. The corporate interests are still there at the state level, no doubt, but now they wouldn't even have to pretend our votes mattered if they could just throw them out entirely and go with what the majority of an extremely gerrymandered legislature wants.
I could even see them changing how the electoral college works by making it a faux-proportional (as opposed to winner-take-all) system where each district gets a vote. This would trick a lot of people into thinking that we are regaining representation but if Moore v Harper goes the way we think it will. But all it would really do is guarantee that one party would gerrymander so aggressively that they would have at least 270 safe, not remotely competitive districts and effectively create a one-party state.
@@night6724 its how this left wing news propagandist put it. They want people to believe that the Florida government is corrupt when it is fixing corruption.
From UK, the fact that electoral boundaries (as they're called here) is done by the politicians and not by an independent commission is completely mind-boggling. Add on the fact that US judges are selected and appointed by their political leanings then it goes beyond mind-boggling. Home of Democracy, sorry guys, you're one step away from a banana republic.........
The amazing thing is that numerous Americans I've discussed this with point-blank refuse to believe that it is possible to do anything in a non-partisan way despite it being completely normal in pretty much every other democracy on the planet.
@@thomasdalton1508 Inspired most of Europe and the Americas to become more democratic in the 18th and 19th centuries. 20th and 21st century is hit or miss.
The case won't come fast enough for 2022 elections however, whereas New York's was stopped. The lesson here is running out the clock for as long as possible before you enact your horrible gerrymander and you can get away with it
Except this video is nonsense. The fifth district is incredibly stupid. Why should there be majority black districts? Also isn’t it weird that Byron Donald’s district is majority white? And funny how states like Hawaii or New Mexico don’t gerrymander to have majority white districts
The US isn’t a democracy. Saying “muh democracy” doesn’t prove anything. Democracy is a tool nothing more or less. Being more democratic doesn’t mean being better. Also can you explain what is wrong with this map specifically?
@@ImperiumMagistrate America is a democratic republic, as are most democracies. One of our main founding principles is that, if the government is doing a bad job, the people can vote them out by democratic means. We have majority rule with minority rights. This map specifically violates the Florida constitutional ban on partisan gerrandering. Even if you grant DeSantis his legal argument that redistricting according to to protect minority representation vista's the constitution (a novel argument, which is very dubious, as his map obviously undercuts minority representation, which is illegal) the Fair Districts amendment also has a separate provision banning partisan gerrymandering generally, and that is the highest priority when it comes to redistricting per the Florida constitution. Democrats won about 48% of the vote in 2020, but under DeSantis map they would only be expected to win 8 out of 28 districts, or about 29% of the congressional representation (rounded up) DeSantis just completely ignored the Florida constitution when making these maps. He intentionally tried to crack the democratic votes by splitting up democratic areas. DeSantis disregarded the will of the Florida voters, as expressed in their referendum vote that over 60% of Florida voters approved
Right that’s literally how it works, you people shouldn’t have lost so many elections “But but but gerrymandering and the senate is unfair” then appeal to rural and white voters and you won’t lose so many elections
@@scoobydoobielll5632 nah they're just gonna get rid of the filibuster within the next few years instead. Then it'll be the conservatives turn to start whining.
@@scoobydoobielll5632 "Well democracy in the US is broken so we shouldn't fix it" - notice how feeble your argument is? Its almost as feeble as your mental capacity.
Desantis is right on the US constitution trumps state constitutions, he could even make the case that the northern district is a racial gerrymander which is unconstitutional unless it’s protected by the VRA but the vra only protect the district if it has all 3 components, 1-the minority race they are trying to have a district for has to be a majority( the black population is a plurality not a majority)🚫2nd the white population that surrounds the minority population has to vote differently from the minority population(they vote conservative so yeah)✅3rd- the minority population has to vote the overwhelmingly the same(yeah they vote dem)✅, since it didn’t meet all 3 it’s a racial gerrymander and is against the equal protection clause, btw this was settled in miller v cooper in the North Carolina district case in 2017 where justice keagen wrote the majority
He could argue the voting rights act is unconstitutional as well. Have to remember this SCOTUS is ALOT different than 2017 SCOTUS especially if they rule with the legislature in Moore vs Harper
EC reform needs an amendment. That's a non starter as republicans control most states and are opposed at the moment. Once they agree then it could be done but democrats might not be on board at that point. Federal stanardized rules over gerrymandering need 60 dem votes in the senate which aren't happening. They can kill the filibuster but if they do, republicans will just undo the law. So it's state by state.
@@fortisfortunaadiuvat9262 this myth is hilarious lol the population increase is retirees coming from up north and people from countries like Venezuela who tend to vote Republican The myth of “people fleeing blue states for Floridal (a swing state mind you) doesn’t stand up to any scrutiny
A Judge has ruled it violates the state constitution and is prohibited from being used for any future U.S. congressional elections since it diminishes the ability of Black voters in north Florida to pick a representative of their choice.
Good luck on changing the constitution, only requires super majorities in both legislative chambers and approval of 3/4ths of the states. Also, you are essentially suggesting that local representation must be rendered subordinate to federal. That’s the only way to achieve what you are suggesting, meaning if you do not like your representative, you cannot vote to replace them, you vote against the entire party to stop them from getting more seats. Removing voter to constituent accountability will only increase political indifference to the needs of the people and create a system of fealty to party. It’s already awful. What you are suggesting is idiotic.
Why do we let humans draw maps? They should be drawn entirely by politics blind algorithms. Data science teams could submit maps whose only requirement is that each district contains the same number of people. The winning map would be the one where the sum of all district perimeters is lowest. You'd want to ignore state boundaries since coastlines and river banks are famously fractal, so all counted boundary lines would be straight - like the borders between soap bubbles. Don't like the map? Fine, submit one with a lower perimeter. Lowest by the deadline wins. Of course, this process might favor the side with the best mathematicians and most computation resources, but that shouldn't make much of a difference. The important thing is that the process is TRANSPARENT and NON-POLITICAL.
I disagree, the purpose and origin of districts to give communities a voice in congress, they should be drawn to encompass culturally similar communities, so pretty much urban, rural, and suburban districts
Such a map would cross through every single voting precinct along the boundaries (and even split census blocks which would make it difficult to know if it actually was equal population), making voting more complicated in those areas for basically no benefit. Algorithms like these are always incredibly short-sighted because there's always some nuance that they fail to account for. And why minimum perimeter instead of some other measure of compactness like minimum county splits, or minimum distance from the center, or minimum Reock score, or minimum Polsby-Popper score. Why even use a compactness measure for that matter when it's basically nothing to do with potential outcomes. It could be incredibly biased against a demographic group purely by the luck of where lines happen to land, whereas measures like efficiency gap or proportionality curves actually attempt to match the map to plausible results.
Neither side would support that. Districts are now required to be drawn for minorities if possible. So your metrics won't clear the voting rights act and associated rulings. The solution would be ranked choice voting as standard, where a state has enough seats they should have multi-member districts of 5-6 seats. That helps to enable 3rd parties. While you still need map lines, at that stage the gain is minimal.
This would cut through geographic and cultural boundaries, and constituencies would be unnatural and not mean anything. Full proportional representation would enable natural districts and eliminate gerrymandering.
It used to be but that map was struck down by the state Supreme Court. The New map is pretty fair. Look at Illinois and New Jersey’s map tho. Both are hideous.
The democrats messed up in Florida they should have went along with the republicans map they could have overide disantos veto.but they decide not to unfortunately.so disantos drew his own map after that.the republican map wasn't perfect but it was more fairer then disantos map.
Good olé Ron keeping us stuck in the 1950's. Not moving forward is just ignorant! Ron D is not an intelligent person. Why did Florida elect this guy in the first place?
It has! A state Court said the map violates the state constitution and is prohibited from being used for any future U.S. congressional elections since it diminishes the ability of Black voters in north Florida to pick a representative of their choice.
It’s actually common in per district, first past the post, single rep style legislatures, there just aren’t that many of those types of democracies, it’s highly federalist which most nations moved past but is integral to our foundational culture
Right, because they favor raw nationwide majority vote style systems, we favor federalism and community/regional based style systems, it’s what our nation was founded on and our nation would disintegrate if it was ever changed. It’s not inherently worse unless you oppose it for philosophical reasons or you’re just a leftist who doesn’t like that under the current system you’d actually have to try to appeal to rural and white voters who leftists loathe
@@14534 I think the point was to match the hyperbole that Chicago was socialism. In addition, this video about gerrymandering dismantling representative democracy in favor of supporting a populist single party rule, which may not always lead to fascism, but is how almost all fascist movement begin. It is certainly, by definition, the dismantling of representative democracy.
@@rachelpoulos we may be on the path to dismantling representative democracy, but our choices aren’t solely that and fascism. There are lots of other different systems of government that have been used to great effect throughout history. Take, for example, the oligarchic republic of Venice that lasted hundreds of years and delivered great prosperity to the people who lived there.
Well by the looks of it, a more conservative Florida equals a more prosperous Florida. If you don't agree with that, just check out the prosperous safe haven's that the Democrats created in LA, San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, and Chicago 😉
Actually california enacted anti-gerrymandering laws and have an independent non-partisan commission that draws the map now. so literally zero gerrymandering
@@aidanaktouf5933 This commission is non-partisan only by name, and even if it was impartial, It doesn't matter, the point is that Republicans are not represented in the largest state in the nation, That makes gerrymandering so essential to balance things out, if all states drew their maps the way California does it, we would live under permanent democrat rule
@@Aa-fg6jf You're right. If all states were fair drawing their maps as California republicans will never win. Because they never are the choice of the people. Last three republican presidents could not win the popular vote 💀
@@Aa-fg6jf actually, most republicans voters in california come from dense cities dominated by democrats. there are only about 30% of republican voters left after accounting for the ones in democratic won counties. that’s less than 2 million voters from 2020 compared to biden’s near 9 million after accounting for the same thing, but for republicans.
@Matt Chicken I bet you’re 100% cool with separating majority white districts who overwhelmingly vote Republican to help out the Democratic Party ala Illinois, California and NY. You’re a hypocrite. And yes that is racism
Are you kidding? The districts in Florida are contiguous blocks of culturally similar people. A hallmark of gerrymandering is the long, snake-like jagged districts that calculate small majorities of preferred voters in with a suppressed minority. Illinois is textbook case of Gerrymandering in this regard. The legislature cut about a dozen sections of Chicago out and mixed it in with suburban and rural voters to suppress the voting power of those districts. Florida is literally a map of squares, slightly favoring Republicans and ignoring a district drawn by racial essentialism.The hypocrisy and of 538 banging on about DeSantis while mostly ignoring Illinois is just another demonstration of leftist power seeking over principles. Are there any principles in the left wing anymore? Other than hating Western Civilization and America?
I agree. They base it off the old map which is a textbook example of dummymandering and race baiting. The fifth district use to look even worse, at least the previous one is only moderately dumb, when Maxine Waters was in congress it was gerrymandered to hell Funny how he ignores Byron Donald is black but represents a majority white district yet acts like without majority black districts there’d be no minority representatives. On top of that if he think minorities need to have safe minority districts why don’t states that are majority non white like New Mexico or Hawaii gerrymander to have safe white districts?
You don’t get that this map was made in bad faith in order to get more Republicans elected. Just because a map is geographically compact does not mean it isn’t gerrymander.
@@Ok-wn6nq I do get exactly that. That is the definition of Gerrymandering. Leftist people are highly susceptible to gerrymandering due to super-concentration in urban centers. There are various degrees of Gerrymandering, and there are certain properties that make Gerrymandering more flagrant and objectionable. The Supreme Court has ruled that districts must be contiguous and have a proportion of 1 man 1 vote. What I don't understand is how the left has the gall to bang on about Gerrymandering when this entire redistricting year's big story was how leftist were gaining safe seats, not by increasing voter rolls or winning minds, but by Gerrymandering. (This year saw a huge net increase in Republican voters in relation to Democrat) Then Ron Desantis steps in with a map that literally has the same number of blue seats as the previous map, and the left hysterically publishes how he is the next coming of Satan, while they have literally been Gerrymandering in every state they control from California to NY. In terms of Gerrymandering, the FL map is hardly controversial. If you were looking for the archetypical example of bad faith gerrymandering, the map drawn in Illinois is where you would go, not FL. Also, one of the areas they pointed out as being "beyond the pale" is Tampa / St Petersburg, better known as Tampa Bay. It is literally a culturally distinct block of similar voters, and apparently it is verboten because it crosses the Bay, which is the same exact metropolitan area. You might notice, they removed the city names from the map to obfuscate this point too, unfortunately, I lived in that area and know it well. This is a lie of omission, and 538 should know better. Sorry 538, we aren't all stupid enough to believe your intentional deceit. I know they know this area too because it is literally the most important area in every presidential election, the I-4 corridor from Tampa to Orlando. It is the bellwether area for determining who wins Florida, and Florida frequently determines who wins the presidency. Any political analyst worth their salt knows about Tampa Bay. I won't buy that it was "an accident".
@@middleagebrotips3454 Please tell me any objective principles leftists have at this point. Freedom of speech/press/religion? (yeah right, self explanatory) Right to self defense? (Literally have to run out of your own house if someone is shooting at you in NY) Equality under the law? (Racially preferred groups get extra benefits, people who resemble successful people get screwed.) Right to a trial of peers? (Gone in college Title IX kangaroo courts) Rights restricting unreasonable government searches and seizures? (The left wing big tech complex and redirecting of the US security state against American citizens is breaching this right more than ever). Private property rights? The left is basically communist at this point, there is nothing leftists are uncomfortable with the government possessing or confiscating. The irony of leftists banging on about Democracy when the synergies that make democracy possible, private property and liberty, are eroded by them everyday. The left wants complete control over the means of production, and individual rights get in the way. Totalitarianism, communism, and state controlled economies necessitate dispensing with democracy, because it turns out people don't like the government telling them how to run their life. Communism births dictatorship, thus communism is the bootstrap for autocrats. See Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, etc. Literally every individual right the liberal wing of the Democratic party fought hard to protect has been discarded in pursuit of power and authority. And the reason is clear. They think they are in power now, and now that they control cultural and institutional power, people do not need individual liberty any more.
It's pretty obvious that it's getting attention because, as mentioned in the video, Florida is now going to be one of the most gerrymandered states in the country. The reason DeSantis especially is getting attention in this case is because he specifically vetoed the other proposed district maps. This point is also mentioned in the video. What about this event is not news worthy? Would you argue that this is just a "universal political activity" if a Democrat turned a previous swingstate entirely blue by gerrymandering? Are you actually consistent on this or just blindly partisan?
Because this gerrymander in particular is pretty egregious. And they've covered the Democratic gerrymanders too in states such as Illinois and New York. (the latter of which was thankfully overturned)
@@dragonflarefrog1424 dude, there was a giant long snake in Florida before this, how is that moderate unless your just trying to pick it in such a way that one party gets an advantage?
So you are for dictatorships with no choice because your team is the one currently rigging the game? Gotcha, I hope you push for gerrymandering in all blue states, otherwise you are a hypocrite.
@@scoobydoobielll5632 No, not for everyone because, as mentioned in the video, this gerrymander, like so many around the country, shuts out black voters.
@@JusticeGort other than because the democrats lost some seats, why? It looks much cleaner than before and no longer targets people based on their race, an illegal practice known as redlining.
It's not a matter of a map "looking" like a gerrymander. It's a matter of whether or not the map accurately reflects the state's voting patterns and demographics. The old one was closer.
Aren’t districts supposed to represent the communities within a state and not the state as a whole? That’s why democrats are losing here, because you they hyper appeal to urbanites and not a wide distribution of communities
@@scoobydoobielll5632 INDIVIDUAL districts are supposed to represent local voting patterns, but you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm saying that, most importantly, all the districts in a state, taken together, should reflect statewide patterns. This map doesn't reflect broad voting patterns. Florida, as a whole, is certainly red, but not this red. Bad map.
I diasagree that taken together they should reflect the states pattern. They should represent geographically and culturally similar communities, since democrats are inherently over represented in some communities because of their lack of appeal to rural and white voters they will be inherently underrepresented in the tally of all communities and their voting patterns
No. The old districts were more representative of the voting population. Florida is NOT a solid red state but the new maps makes it look like it is. This is pure evil. One day the tables will turn, and you’ll be crying as the democrats suppress your vote as well
how the hell did you guys end up with a +5.7 seat advantage?? Lets do some math, a fair map would be 15R-13D. This gerrymandered map gives democrats 8 seats and a potential for two competitive districts. Thats 10 seats, so its only a gerrymander of +3. Massachusetts in the meantime with only ~33% (9) of the districts that Florida has (28) is a D+2 map. The worst maps are CA (D+9), Ohio (R+4), IL (D+4), MA (D+2)
Um no, this is so flawed idk where to start. If you said this in a final paper for a political gerrymandering course, you’d fail right there. Right off the back. Including the 2 competitive seats as Democrat seats is so ridiculous and deprived of logic, that it’s an immediate red flag your florida analysis can’t be taken seriously. It’s 5.7 gerrymander especially given how Desantis weakened the blue districts he didn’t otherwise destroy. In terms of Massachusetts, even conservatives in that state have a difficult time creating a red district in the state. 538 created a competitive district in Massachusetts, but not only is it formed bizarrely it still leans blue. It’s not gerrymandering there, because even the GOP governor approved it knowing no amount of changes could make a red district. California likewise has an independent commission with five Democrats, five Republicans, and four from neither major party and they voted unanimously on the new map. Claiming gerrymander here is just as meritless as the rest of your comment. Overall, leave it to the professionals. This is simply above you. If you submitted this on an actual political gerrymandering class, anything even close to a D- would be too generous.
@@dragonflarefrog1424 Based on your logic on Florida, New York is still a heavily gerrymander map. R should have 10 seats, 4 likely, 2 lean ( both drawn more blue), and 4 competitive districts. Clearly still a gerrymandered map, anywhere from D+5-D+6. Which would have violated the State supreme courts order. Problem is, Florida's map can still be struck down. Your argument is already flawed off the get go. BTW, Democrats could of held those two competitive districts in south Florida, but democrats decided to commit insurrection against our country in the summer of 2020. Just like republicans will lose the chance to flip seats in 2022 do to the Jan 6th crap. If MA is a perfectly drawn map, why the need to draw the districts so horribly? Why not draw 9 compact solid blue districts? The GOP governor has no choice, democrats can easily override his veto. And do you honestly think a GOP governor in MA is a typical republican on the political spectrum? He is left of center at best on most issues. California has an independent commission but the minority party doesn't control who the minority representatives are. Arizona is similiar but the state minority party (democrats) can appoint the two democrat commissioners. Republicans in CA have zero voice in drawing fair maps in CA. Democrats in Arizona do have a voice in the redistricting process. This is basic research that you failed to do. It sounds like your trying to justify democrat gerrymandering while calling republican gerrymandering evil. I wil give you a hint, look at Kevin McCarthy's district in CA and how it is shaped, while ur at it, look at nearly every district in the LA region and the coastal areas. If you think those are fairly drawn districts, you are a lost cause!
@@SJSharks7 All gerrymandering is bad. Would you prefer CA's maps to be drawn by the legislature? They'd be worse. We know as we saw that historically. It's just that in the 90s and 2000s both parties colluded to draw safe districts for them both. That led to a decade of only 1 US house seat changing party in the 2000s and barely even a competitive race most cycles. Dems have no reason to collude with republicans any more as they have supermajorities on their own. They do try to game the commission and it could be improved.
@@ImperiumMagistrate It's not perfect. Indirect control by the lawmakers is still better than direct. The US house elections in CA became more competitive after the commission.
If the supreme court votes in favor the way of the “independent legislature” case, then Nathaniel’s gonna have a lot more gerrymanders to cover
And possibly a 2024 stolen election
Moore v Harper absolutely terrifies me, the doomer in me says it's the end of democracy
@@stephenmarter434 Democracy is already dead. The government is bought up by rightwing corporate interest both Republicans and Democrats.
@@immaheadout4777 I am aware and I agree, at least on the national level. But state legislatures turning all one way or the other is what is really the last nail in the coffin in my opinion. The corporate interests are still there at the state level, no doubt, but now they wouldn't even have to pretend our votes mattered if they could just throw them out entirely and go with what the majority of an extremely gerrymandered legislature wants.
I could even see them changing how the electoral college works by making it a faux-proportional (as opposed to winner-take-all) system where each district gets a vote. This would trick a lot of people into thinking that we are regaining representation but if Moore v Harper goes the way we think it will. But all it would really do is guarantee that one party would gerrymander so aggressively that they would have at least 270 safe, not remotely competitive districts and effectively create a one-party state.
The more you learn about US politics at ANY level, the more you understand that US politics is busted at EVERY level.
It’s the only thing that works, anything else and we wouldn’t have formed our union
It's sausage meat all the way down!
GOP wants state rights. Fk that
so what’s the problem with Florida not gerrymanding on race?
@@night6724 its how this left wing news propagandist put it. They want people to believe that the Florida government is corrupt when it is fixing corruption.
From UK, the fact that electoral boundaries (as they're called here) is done by the politicians and not by an independent commission is completely mind-boggling. Add on the fact that US judges are selected and appointed by their political leanings then it goes beyond mind-boggling. Home of Democracy, sorry guys, you're one step away from a banana republic.........
The amazing thing is that numerous Americans I've discussed this with point-blank refuse to believe that it is possible to do anything in a non-partisan way despite it being completely normal in pretty much every other democracy on the planet.
Yeah we may have led the world to become more democratic and free over the last few centuries but we’re quite far from mastering it.
@@Anthony-db7cs How exactly have you led the world to become more democratic and free?
@@thomasdalton1508 Inspired most of Europe and the Americas to become more democratic in the 18th and 19th centuries. 20th and 21st century is hit or miss.
@@Anthony-db7cs The US might like to think that, but I don't think there is much historical justification for that claim.
The case won't come fast enough for 2022 elections however, whereas New York's was stopped. The lesson here is running out the clock for as long as possible before you enact your horrible gerrymander and you can get away with it
Can they not ask the court for an injunction so the maps won't come into effect?
That’s what they did in ga. They ran out the clock and the sc said oh it’s too close to the election. We’re not gonna hear it.
Nathaniel knocked it out of the park with that intro.
Except this video is nonsense. The fifth district is incredibly stupid. Why should there be majority black districts? Also isn’t it weird that Byron Donald’s district is majority white? And funny how states like Hawaii or New Mexico don’t gerrymander to have majority white districts
US democracy has major structural problems. Reforms are needs at every level of government.
The US isn’t a democracy. Saying “muh democracy” doesn’t prove anything. Democracy is a tool nothing more or less. Being more democratic doesn’t mean being better. Also can you explain what is wrong with this map specifically?
@@ImperiumMagistrate America is a democratic republic, as are most democracies. One of our main founding principles is that, if the government is doing a bad job, the people can vote them out by democratic means. We have majority rule with minority rights.
This map specifically violates the Florida constitutional ban on partisan gerrandering. Even if you grant DeSantis his legal argument that redistricting according to to protect minority representation vista's the constitution (a novel argument, which is very dubious, as his map obviously undercuts minority representation, which is illegal) the Fair Districts amendment also has a separate provision banning partisan gerrymandering generally, and that is the highest priority when it comes to redistricting per the Florida constitution. Democrats won about 48% of the vote in 2020, but under DeSantis map they would only be expected to win 8 out of 28 districts, or about 29% of the congressional representation (rounded up) DeSantis just completely ignored the Florida constitution when making these maps. He intentionally tried to crack the democratic votes by splitting up democratic areas. DeSantis disregarded the will of the Florida voters, as expressed in their referendum vote that over 60% of Florida voters approved
@@ImperiumMagistrate monarchism has a far worse track record and your channel is cringe
Nathaniel, did you just adopt? Cuz your dad jokes have hit a new level.
MOAR like this, plz!!
Republicans be like: "It's okay to be wrong if the court agrees with me"
Right that’s literally how it works, you people shouldn’t have lost so many elections
“But but but gerrymandering and the senate is unfair” then appeal to rural and white voters and you won’t lose so many elections
@@scoobydoobielll5632 nah they're just gonna get rid of the filibuster within the next few years instead. Then it'll be the conservatives turn to start whining.
@@scoobydoobielll5632 that ain't how a democracy works budy.
Ok? And? It’s how our system works, go ahead and moan more
@@scoobydoobielll5632 "Well democracy in the US is broken so we shouldn't fix it" - notice how feeble your argument is? Its almost as feeble as your mental capacity.
Desantis is right on the US constitution trumps state constitutions, he could even make the case that the northern district is a racial gerrymander which is unconstitutional unless it’s protected by the VRA but the vra only protect the district if it has all 3 components, 1-the minority race they are trying to have a district for has to be a majority( the black population is a plurality not a majority)🚫2nd the white population that surrounds the minority population has to vote differently from the minority population(they vote conservative so yeah)✅3rd- the minority population has to vote the overwhelmingly the same(yeah they vote dem)✅, since it didn’t meet all 3 it’s a racial gerrymander and is against the equal protection clause, btw this was settled in miller v cooper in the North Carolina district case in 2017 where justice keagen wrote the majority
He could argue the voting rights act is unconstitutional as well. Have to remember this SCOTUS is ALOT different than 2017 SCOTUS especially if they rule with the legislature in Moore vs Harper
should hawaii make a district that is majority white?
@@ImperiumMagistrate Why? Hawaii is majority white
@@krokuke no it isn’t. Whites are a minority
@@ImperiumMagistrate 61% is now a minority...
"Florida, man!" or "Florida Man!" You choose.
So having a 200 mile long 5th district that discriminated against people based off of the color of their skin isn’t a gerrymander?
It is. That district probably violates Shaw vs Reno
No video on the Democratic gerrymanders in New Mexico and Illinois inter alia.
And New Jersey/ California
we need federal level standardized election law, do away with electoral college... get to a one human, one vote level on most policy decisions.
EC reform needs an amendment. That's a non starter as republicans control most states and are opposed at the moment. Once they agree then it could be done but democrats might not be on board at that point.
Federal stanardized rules over gerrymandering need 60 dem votes in the senate which aren't happening. They can kill the filibuster but if they do, republicans will just undo the law. So it's state by state.
No we need a constitutional amendment because laws can be thrown out
that’s an awful idea. Democracy is flawed which is why there’s the electoral college
Get him out.
And into the white house
These jokes are amazing! And this map is terrifying.
Geographically compact districts is ‘terrifying’?
@@PaxAmericana76 lol no way you believe 1.that the map was drawn for geographic compactness and 2. that is a good reason to redistrict
@@Mirrorman12 it’s cool I’ve seen Texas. I think it’s the most partisan gerrymandered state in the country
Florida is awesome, run awesome which is why so many people are moving to florida from blue states
@@fortisfortunaadiuvat9262 this myth is hilarious lol the population increase is retirees coming from up north and people from countries like Venezuela who tend to vote Republican
The myth of “people fleeing blue states for Floridal (a swing state mind you) doesn’t stand up to any scrutiny
Nathaniel = lol. Things are so ugly rn, it's nice to lighten the mood once in a while
Where is the court now on DeSantis’s gerrymandered map….
A Judge has ruled it violates the state constitution and is prohibited from being used for any future U.S. congressional elections since it diminishes the ability of Black voters in north Florida to pick a representative of their choice.
America needs proportional representation at all levels of government - 50% equals 50% of seats. Always. Yes, it can be done. Other countries do it.
Good luck on changing the constitution, only requires super majorities in both legislative chambers and approval of 3/4ths of the states.
Also, you are essentially suggesting that local representation must be rendered subordinate to federal. That’s the only way to achieve what you are suggesting, meaning if you do not like your representative, you cannot vote to replace them, you vote against the entire party to stop them from getting more seats. Removing voter to constituent accountability will only increase political indifference to the needs of the people and create a system of fealty to party. It’s already awful. What you are suggesting is idiotic.
Other countries also eat dogs, cut off hands as punishment for theft and cane people for littering. I’m fine with being different.
@@14534 how is proportional voting comparable to mutilation?
@@joshuaelder8983 they aren't the brightest of the bunch
As a Floridian, what can I do to fight the gerrymandering?
Move out of FL
Move to California
Nothing now, but in 2030, try and get a democrat in to get a more favorable map. It's too late.
move to NC. we're also gerrymandered but we can elect our own supreme court justices to challenge the maps at least?
Whenever you hear someone say florida man, they ways sound a bit jealous.
I love the sketches you do.
Why do we let humans draw maps? They should be drawn entirely by politics blind algorithms.
Data science teams could submit maps whose only requirement is that each district contains the same number of people. The winning map would be the one where the sum of all district perimeters is lowest.
You'd want to ignore state boundaries since coastlines and river banks are famously fractal, so all counted boundary lines would be straight - like the borders between soap bubbles.
Don't like the map? Fine, submit one with a lower perimeter. Lowest by the deadline wins.
Of course, this process might favor the side with the best mathematicians and most computation resources, but that shouldn't make much of a difference. The important thing is that the process is TRANSPARENT and NON-POLITICAL.
I disagree, the purpose and origin of districts to give communities a voice in congress, they should be drawn to encompass culturally similar communities, so pretty much urban, rural, and suburban districts
Such a map would cross through every single voting precinct along the boundaries (and even split census blocks which would make it difficult to know if it actually was equal population), making voting more complicated in those areas for basically no benefit.
Algorithms like these are always incredibly short-sighted because there's always some nuance that they fail to account for.
And why minimum perimeter instead of some other measure of compactness like minimum county splits, or minimum distance from the center, or minimum Reock score, or minimum Polsby-Popper score. Why even use a compactness measure for that matter when it's basically nothing to do with potential outcomes. It could be incredibly biased against a demographic group purely by the luck of where lines happen to land, whereas measures like efficiency gap or proportionality curves actually attempt to match the map to plausible results.
Umm, Constitution?
Neither side would support that. Districts are now required to be drawn for minorities if possible. So your metrics won't clear the voting rights act and associated rulings.
The solution would be ranked choice voting as standard, where a state has enough seats they should have multi-member districts of 5-6 seats. That helps to enable 3rd parties. While you still need map lines, at that stage the gain is minimal.
This would cut through geographic and cultural boundaries, and constituencies would be unnatural and not mean anything. Full proportional representation would enable natural districts and eliminate gerrymandering.
Last grasps at power for the new minority
Almost like DeSantis asked 538 for the worst gerrymander and they gave him that map lol -- or did he miss some opportunity there?
Nah I’d say New York is by far the worst gerrymandered map
And it isn’t close. Nate Silver and his Dem shills only focus on Florida and other states like Ohio for some reason.
It used to be but that map was struck down by the state Supreme Court. The New map is pretty fair. Look at Illinois and New Jersey’s map tho. Both are hideous.
Yeah but if it benefits republicans, it's automatically worse. /s
You would rather districting be based on race, correct?
"Florida Man" ... XD ... Nice
If the legislature had bipartisan votes, they should have had enough votes to overcome his veto.
The democrats messed up in Florida they should have went along with the republicans map they could have overide disantos veto.but they decide not to unfortunately.so disantos drew his own map after that.the republican map wasn't perfect but it was more fairer then disantos map.
@@alphonsos7307 Dems in FL are a special kind of stupid in that case.
@@theuglykwan I totally agree with you on that one.they should have known what was going to happen.
Good olé Ron keeping us stuck in the 1950's. Not moving forward is just ignorant! Ron D is not an intelligent person. Why did Florida elect this guy in the first place?
Dems are stuck in the 50s too, the 1450s just before the sack of Constantinople.
Imagine if this map drawn by DeSantis backfires
It has! A state Court said the map violates the state constitution and is prohibited from being used for any future U.S. congressional elections since it diminishes the ability of Black voters in north Florida to pick a representative of their choice.
Nathanial brings great wonk energy, this is what I’m here for :)
I use to live in the 5th district which was blue, and now a live in the red 4th district due to the map change.
Lmao so this is the guy Republicans want to field to replace Trump? Good luck winning the center.
Of course Ron De Santis did.
Liberal Moonbat Hogwash
I was waiting for a video on Florida gerrymandering. Do California now
Chad Desantis
wait does that not violate the civil rights act because of the erasure of a majority black voting district?
No because it's a not a majority black district. It's only 44% black if anything that district violates Shaw vs Reno
Ooo he got busted!
Looks like it worked tho
It’s basically this guy mad that he fixed many gerrymanders
Worst than IL, I don’t think so
Normal democracies just have no such thing. You are number one.
It’s actually common in per district, first past the post, single rep style legislatures, there just aren’t that many of those types of democracies, it’s highly federalist which most nations moved past but is integral to our foundational culture
Right, because they favor raw nationwide majority vote style systems, we favor federalism and community/regional based style systems, it’s what our nation was founded on and our nation would disintegrate if it was ever changed.
It’s not inherently worse unless you oppose it for philosophical reasons or you’re just a leftist who doesn’t like that under the current system you’d actually have to try to appeal to rural and white voters who leftists loathe
@@smashinbedrock4903 we don’t really care what they think though, so there’s that.
what is a normal democracy?
@@smashinbedrock4903 And Europe is an authoritarian globalist pawn
Refreshing and wonderful. Knew I made the right move to Florida from socialist Chicago.
I'm not sure fascism is much of an upgrade.
@@rachelpoulos if you think Florida is an example of fascism, I suggest you pick up a history book.
@@14534 I think the point was to match the hyperbole that Chicago was socialism. In addition, this video about gerrymandering dismantling representative democracy in favor of supporting a populist single party rule, which may not always lead to fascism, but is how almost all fascist movement begin. It is certainly, by definition, the dismantling of representative democracy.
@@rachelpoulos we may be on the path to dismantling representative democracy, but our choices aren’t solely that and fascism. There are lots of other different systems of government that have been used to great effect throughout history. Take, for example, the oligarchic republic of Venice that lasted hundreds of years and delivered great prosperity to the people who lived there.
And in 23-24 I am moving right back to Florida
Extremely based
As far as I've seen, this is a pretty fair map.
Did you watch the video or no?
@@steve-O1 It's a fair map. It removes gerrymandered district of the old map.
@@我老公係AP靚仔 but it gerrymanders more so then the last map, so it’s more gerrymandered
@@saberur66 No. It's a fair district map.
@@我老公係AP靚仔 when everyone says it’s not a fair map and you are the only one that does say it’s a fair map you are probably wrong.
Desantis is awesome
And democrats have done the same thing
😂😂😂😂
😂🤣 this fool is coping
Well by the looks of it, a more conservative Florida equals a more prosperous Florida. If you don't agree with that, just check out the prosperous safe haven's that the Democrats created in LA, San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, and Chicago 😉
all better places to live than Florida
What a thumbnail XD
Solid map
The left complaining about gerrymandering is the pot calling the kettle black.
republicans gerrymander in far more states
Where is your video about NY CA and MD.
Good, look at CA map, Trump only won 4 seats out of 53, most gerrymandered map in history
Actually california enacted anti-gerrymandering laws and have an independent non-partisan commission that draws the map now. so literally zero gerrymandering
no they have an independent commission to draw the maps, and if it was completely fair, republicans would only gain a few seats, its not gerrymandered
@@aidanaktouf5933 This commission is non-partisan only by name, and even if it was impartial, It doesn't matter, the point is that Republicans are not represented in the largest state in the nation, That makes gerrymandering so essential to balance things out, if all states drew their maps the way California does it, we would live under permanent democrat rule
@@Aa-fg6jf You're right. If all states were fair drawing their maps as California republicans will never win. Because they never are the choice of the people. Last three republican presidents could not win the popular vote 💀
@@Aa-fg6jf actually, most republicans voters in california come from dense cities dominated by democrats. there are only about 30% of republican voters left after accounting for the ones in democratic won counties. that’s less than 2 million voters from 2020 compared to biden’s near 9 million after accounting for the same thing, but for republicans.
Nathaniel, you forgot your swastika armband again.
G-d is using Ron Desantis to do wonderful works. G-D BLESS FLORIDA 😉😊
The most gerrymandered map that is geographically compact is the opposite of what gerrymander actually means.
Is that what we call putting Tampa and St. Petersburg together?
@@joshuaalfaro4781 is there suppose to be a question?
@@PaxAmericana76 It is a question for you, is crossing Tampa Bay geographically compact for you?
@@joshuaalfaro4781 yes because St. petersburg and Tampa are basically the same thing
Not true at all.
Have you ever looked at new York or Illinois? Democrats do it too! Atleast DeSantis uses his power as a republican to get things done
Atleast it wasn't racist
@Matt Chicken Ummm, racism towards white people is in fact racism.
@@RittenhousesRifle how is Seperating black people to help the republican party not racist?
@Matt Chicken I bet you’re 100% cool with separating majority white districts who overwhelmingly vote Republican to help out the Democratic Party ala Illinois, California and NY. You’re a hypocrite. And yes that is racism
@@RittenhousesRifle actually no I'm an independent who thinks both sides are hypocrites
We the people of Florida love it, quit complaining.
The point of this channel isn’t to worship Republicans, it’s to point out political data. He even talks about blue states
Do you practice what you preach? Or is it only shut up when it is something you like?
@@theuglykwan both it depends on the subject.
No we don’t.
Are you kidding? The districts in Florida are contiguous blocks of culturally similar people. A hallmark of gerrymandering is the long, snake-like jagged districts that calculate small majorities of preferred voters in with a suppressed minority. Illinois is textbook case of Gerrymandering in this regard. The legislature cut about a dozen sections of Chicago out and mixed it in with suburban and rural voters to suppress the voting power of those districts.
Florida is literally a map of squares, slightly favoring Republicans and ignoring a district drawn by racial essentialism.The hypocrisy and of 538 banging on about DeSantis while mostly ignoring Illinois is just another demonstration of leftist power seeking over principles. Are there any principles in the left wing anymore? Other than hating Western Civilization and America?
I agree. They base it off the old map which is a textbook example of dummymandering and race baiting. The fifth district use to look even worse, at least the previous one is only moderately dumb, when Maxine Waters was in congress it was gerrymandered to hell
Funny how he ignores Byron Donald is black but represents a majority white district yet acts like without majority black districts there’d be no minority representatives. On top of that if he think minorities need to have safe minority districts why don’t states that are majority non white like New Mexico or Hawaii gerrymander to have safe white districts?
YARRRRR, anyone speaking against my team is woke left wing with no principles....
You don’t get that this map was made in bad faith in order to get more Republicans elected. Just because a map is geographically compact does not mean it isn’t gerrymander.
@@Ok-wn6nq I do get exactly that. That is the definition of Gerrymandering. Leftist people are highly susceptible to gerrymandering due to super-concentration in urban centers. There are various degrees of Gerrymandering, and there are certain properties that make Gerrymandering more flagrant and objectionable. The Supreme Court has ruled that districts must be contiguous and have a proportion of 1 man 1 vote.
What I don't understand is how the left has the gall to bang on about Gerrymandering when this entire redistricting year's big story was how leftist were gaining safe seats, not by increasing voter rolls or winning minds, but by Gerrymandering. (This year saw a huge net increase in Republican voters in relation to Democrat) Then Ron Desantis steps in with a map that literally has the same number of blue seats as the previous map, and the left hysterically publishes how he is the next coming of Satan, while they have literally been Gerrymandering in every state they control from California to NY. In terms of Gerrymandering, the FL map is hardly controversial. If you were looking for the archetypical example of bad faith gerrymandering, the map drawn in Illinois is where you would go, not FL.
Also, one of the areas they pointed out as being "beyond the pale" is Tampa / St Petersburg, better known as Tampa Bay. It is literally a culturally distinct block of similar voters, and apparently it is verboten because it crosses the Bay, which is the same exact metropolitan area. You might notice, they removed the city names from the map to obfuscate this point too, unfortunately, I lived in that area and know it well. This is a lie of omission, and 538 should know better. Sorry 538, we aren't all stupid enough to believe your intentional deceit.
I know they know this area too because it is literally the most important area in every presidential election, the I-4 corridor from Tampa to Orlando. It is the bellwether area for determining who wins Florida, and Florida frequently determines who wins the presidency. Any political analyst worth their salt knows about Tampa Bay. I won't buy that it was "an accident".
@@middleagebrotips3454 Please tell me any objective principles leftists have at this point. Freedom of speech/press/religion? (yeah right, self explanatory) Right to self defense? (Literally have to run out of your own house if someone is shooting at you in NY) Equality under the law? (Racially preferred groups get extra benefits, people who resemble successful people get screwed.) Right to a trial of peers? (Gone in college Title IX kangaroo courts) Rights restricting unreasonable government searches and seizures? (The left wing big tech complex and redirecting of the US security state against American citizens is breaching this right more than ever). Private property rights? The left is basically communist at this point, there is nothing leftists are uncomfortable with the government possessing or confiscating.
The irony of leftists banging on about Democracy when the synergies that make democracy possible, private property and liberty, are eroded by them everyday. The left wants complete control over the means of production, and individual rights get in the way. Totalitarianism, communism, and state controlled economies necessitate dispensing with democracy, because it turns out people don't like the government telling them how to run their life. Communism births dictatorship, thus communism is the bootstrap for autocrats. See Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, etc.
Literally every individual right the liberal wing of the Democratic party fought hard to protect has been discarded in pursuit of power and authority. And the reason is clear. They think they are in power now, and now that they control cultural and institutional power, people do not need individual liberty any more.
Weird how DeSantis is getting special attention over a universal political activity. LOL, Dems are terrified of this man. 😂
I mean, he just turned a swing state as red as Texas, which mind you will be a swing state within 12 years
It's pretty obvious that it's getting attention because, as mentioned in the video, Florida is now going to be one of the most gerrymandered states in the country. The reason DeSantis especially is getting attention in this case is because he specifically vetoed the other proposed district maps. This point is also mentioned in the video. What about this event is not news worthy? Would you argue that this is just a "universal political activity" if a Democrat turned a previous swingstate entirely blue by gerrymandering? Are you actually consistent on this or just blindly partisan?
@@hake8605 obviously partisan. Typical conservative.
Yes they are, as should any sane person
Because this gerrymander in particular is pretty egregious. And they've covered the Democratic gerrymanders too in states such as Illinois and New York. (the latter of which was thankfully overturned)
It’s great to see republicans finally pushing back.
Pushing back against democracy?
You think Gerry mandering is good?
@@leonthethird7494 they've been morphing into an autocratic party for some time now
Great liberal spin!
Everything he said was factual
@@dragonflarefrog1424 look at the old gerrymandered. It's like a snake targeting anyone it can, it needed to be done away with.
@@chadleach6009 The old map was also made by Republicans, but it was at the least somewhat moderate. This is pure partisan nonsense.
@@dragonflarefrog1424 dude, there was a giant long snake in Florida before this, how is that moderate unless your just trying to pick it in such a way that one party gets an advantage?
Let's go Brandon - you are doing such a great job!
If you don’t like Florida, leave.
100% approve this move. Keep those Democrats out!
So you are for dictatorships with no choice because your team is the one currently rigging the game? Gotcha, I hope you push for gerrymandering in all blue states, otherwise you are a hypocrite.
Agreed, the more we keep them out using politics, the less likely we will have to use violence, it’s a win win for everyone
@@scoobydoobielll5632 No, not for everyone because, as mentioned in the video, this gerrymander, like so many around the country, shuts out black voters.
@@scoobydoobielll5632 Are you mad
Well the comments I post keep getting deleted so probably. I am a national socialist, you can imagine what I support being done about you people
Keep Florida deep Red!
Its not even a bad gerrymander
yes it is
@@JusticeGort other than because the democrats lost some seats, why? It looks much cleaner than before and no longer targets people based on their race, an illegal practice known as redlining.
@@chadleach6009 dems didn’t lose seats dingus
DeSantis 2024
but the old districts look more like gerrymanders… i think you’re crying about shenanigans being undone, honestly.
It's not a matter of a map "looking" like a gerrymander. It's a matter of whether or not the map accurately reflects the state's voting patterns and demographics. The old one was closer.
Aren’t districts supposed to represent the communities within a state and not the state as a whole? That’s why democrats are losing here, because you they hyper appeal to urbanites and not a wide distribution of communities
@@scoobydoobielll5632 INDIVIDUAL districts are supposed to represent local voting patterns, but you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm saying that, most importantly, all the districts in a state, taken together, should reflect statewide patterns. This map doesn't reflect broad voting patterns. Florida, as a whole, is certainly red, but not this red. Bad map.
I diasagree that taken together they should reflect the states pattern. They should represent geographically and culturally similar communities, since democrats are inherently over represented in some communities because of their lack of appeal to rural and white voters they will be inherently underrepresented in the tally of all communities and their voting patterns
No. The old districts were more representative of the voting population. Florida is NOT a solid red state but the new maps makes it look like it is. This is pure evil. One day the tables will turn, and you’ll be crying as the democrats suppress your vote as well
how the hell did you guys end up with a +5.7 seat advantage?? Lets do some math, a fair map would be 15R-13D. This gerrymandered map gives democrats 8 seats and a potential for two competitive districts. Thats 10 seats, so its only a gerrymander of +3. Massachusetts in the meantime with only ~33% (9) of the districts that Florida has (28) is a D+2 map.
The worst maps are CA (D+9), Ohio (R+4), IL (D+4), MA (D+2)
Um no, this is so flawed idk where to start. If you said this in a final paper for a political gerrymandering course, you’d fail right there.
Right off the back. Including the 2 competitive seats as Democrat seats is so ridiculous and deprived of logic, that it’s an immediate red flag your florida analysis can’t be taken seriously. It’s 5.7 gerrymander especially given how Desantis weakened the blue districts he didn’t otherwise destroy.
In terms of Massachusetts, even conservatives in that state have a difficult time creating a red district in the state. 538 created a competitive district in Massachusetts, but not only is it formed bizarrely it still leans blue. It’s not gerrymandering there, because even the GOP governor approved it knowing no amount of changes could make a red district.
California likewise has an independent commission with five Democrats, five Republicans, and four from neither major party and they voted unanimously on the new map. Claiming gerrymander here is just as meritless as the rest of your comment.
Overall, leave it to the professionals. This is simply above you. If you submitted this on an actual political gerrymandering class, anything even close to a D- would be too generous.
@@dragonflarefrog1424 Based on your logic on Florida, New York is still a heavily gerrymander map. R should have 10 seats, 4 likely, 2 lean ( both drawn more blue), and 4 competitive districts. Clearly still a gerrymandered map, anywhere from D+5-D+6. Which would have violated the State supreme courts order. Problem is, Florida's map can still be struck down. Your argument is already flawed off the get go. BTW, Democrats could of held those two competitive districts in south Florida, but democrats decided to commit insurrection against our country in the summer of 2020. Just like republicans will lose the chance to flip seats in 2022 do to the Jan 6th crap.
If MA is a perfectly drawn map, why the need to draw the districts so horribly? Why not draw 9 compact solid blue districts? The GOP governor has no choice, democrats can easily override his veto. And do you honestly think a GOP governor in MA is a typical republican on the political spectrum? He is left of center at best on most issues.
California has an independent commission but the minority party doesn't control who the minority representatives are. Arizona is similiar but the state minority party (democrats) can appoint the two democrat commissioners. Republicans in CA have zero voice in drawing fair maps in CA. Democrats in Arizona do have a voice in the redistricting process.
This is basic research that you failed to do. It sounds like your trying to justify democrat gerrymandering while calling republican gerrymandering evil.
I wil give you a hint, look at Kevin McCarthy's district in CA and how it is shaped, while ur at it, look at nearly every district in the LA region and the coastal areas. If you think those are fairly drawn districts, you are a lost cause!
@@SJSharks7 All gerrymandering is bad. Would you prefer CA's maps to be drawn by the legislature? They'd be worse. We know as we saw that historically. It's just that in the 90s and 2000s both parties colluded to draw safe districts for them both. That led to a decade of only 1 US house seat changing party in the 2000s and barely even a competitive race most cycles.
Dems have no reason to collude with republicans any more as they have supermajorities on their own.
They do try to game the commission and it could be improved.
@@theuglykwan the “non partisan” commission is only non partisan in name
@@ImperiumMagistrate It's not perfect. Indirect control by the lawmakers is still better than direct. The US house elections in CA became more competitive after the commission.
Good, teach the dems a lesson
No he didn’t.
Great
It's a fair, compactly drawn map that respects communities of interest.
Disliked for the intro
Liked for the intro
@@rwrunning1813 fair enough