This was a OUTSTANDING video! I am an engineer who put X-10 in over 20 years ago and recently moved so it is time to learn the new technology options. Rob explained it all so that you can understand the tradeoffs. And they ARE trade-offs, if there was one "best" we would all just use it. Duh! Excellent discussion on RF, well done! And as a cyber security guy, you gave me a lot to consider. I still have a LOT to learn, but this 15 minute video saved me gobs of research time. In fact, I was keen on the Z-Wave when you started talking as 933 MHz appealed to me as it is not in a congested frequency range PLUS the penetration of 933 Hz vs 2.4 GHz. That was until you taught me about the Connected Home Over IP standards and how Z-Wave "couldn't play in reindeer games." BUZZ! Thanks for playing. Next! Great video! Good starting point for any geek who wants to learn more! THANK YOU!
Excellent Summary Curt. We are both dated. Cut my teeth on X10. For a long time was the only thing to use for automation. Technology has definitely moved on.
Connected home over IP makes sense if you have a strong WiFi network. Z-Wave makes sense if WiFI coverage is spotty in your house. Then you can take advantage of the Mesh network of Zwave. I was thinking about the Lutron line, but that is proprietary. The switches are extremely reliable. One person has had Lutron switches in his house for 5 years and never replaced one.
Best technology tutorial I’ve seen. Clear language no technical jargon and great metaphors to explain complex protocols to non-techies. I’ve a teaching background in technology and haven’t seen a better presentation. Thank you
Gosh darn... i love this channel. Seriously, when i see it when I'm searching for something I know straight away I'm going to watch an informative video, which respects my time and is very well communicated. Thanks!
Came here after searching many sites and watching many videos to decide on which protocol to use and I found my answer. Thank you for the clear explanation!
Wonderfully thought out video. I had been down all 3 rabbit holes when trying to decide which one to pick. It was nice to see a completely independent video reach the same conclusions I did, but explained in such an easy to understand format.
like the features, setup was difficult for some of my devices (August Door lock, ruclips.net/user/postUgkxhB5YOMNj04GuoAosExygP4cH-dKeb4aB Bose speaker)... but all switches and outlets (5), thermostat, tankless water heater. Unfortunately all I can do is turn on/off Bose. It doesn't support volume or changing channels, but I believe that is due to the particular speaker I have.... Worth getting if you already have other devices to use it with... I don't sit around and ask Alexa questions much so that doesn't really matter to me....
A good overview. However you missed the Z-Wave is extensible language. What this means is manufacturers have to use the existing commands if one already exists but can create new ones if they do not exist in the spec. So for example if someone wanted to make a Z-Wave instant pot they would have to use the Z-Wave standards for on and off but they would get to use their own commands for setting the temperature. Z-Wave is actually administered by the Z-Wave Alliance which while mostly controlled by sigma designs does have several dozen companies involved who wind up voting on which new commands to add to the protocol.
Awesome content, great delivery, down to earth language, know his audience but also adapts the message to newcomers... Thank you so much for making these videos.
Thank you for the awesome video! One thing to mention, if you want smart dimmer switch and you don't have neutral wire, Z Wave is your only choice (as of today IIUC).
This is a topic I have been waiting on for a while. Thank you! As an IT engineer I cant help but think that wifi smart home devices will congest my wifi network. This may not manifest in real word degradation but I cant get past the theory so I go with z-wave, about 60 devices total.
WiFi smart home devices are all on 2.4ghz, so you really shouldn’t see any issues with the devices that you want to be “fast”. It also means that WiFi 6 isn’t going to have a large impact on smart home devices,
@@TheHookUp i came to this video because my wifi is congested with too many switches, caneras etc all connected to the 2.4 Ghz band. But I'll search for the network channel congestion fix per your video first.
Bought a CC2530 stick from aliexpress and flashed it. Zigbee2mqtt for use as a hub. Integrated into Home assistant. Works perfect, finally I can use Hue motion sensors for some other lights than Hues. And total cost under 10 usd. And they have very wide support for devices and you can even make new devices supported yourself. Only minus is that you need additional powered CC2530 sticks to get over 15 zigbee devices. Recommended!
All Zwave must work with all other Zwave by its manufacture specs. Zigbee is "open source" but does NOT have to work with other Zigbee devices. This means that Zigbee can work one day then not work because of a software change. Just be aware of this when you design your systems. Best advice is to get a hub that has all of the "radios" you will need.
Thanks for your video it was super informative. I appreciate it's now 3 years old. Have you considered doing a video about ‘Matter’ Smart Home Standard?
Nice presentation Rob. I'm a bigger fan of zigbee myself, not really for concrete reasons except it was more appealing as far as price and availability of products (most likely due to the zwave being so locked down as you mentioned) Ultimately I'm glad I have less devices to worry about with my wifi AP. Ultimately a great video for newcomers. Good work.
In the long run, after using WiFi, zwave and zigbee devices for several years, my favorite is wifi. Zigbee and zwave tends to disconnect from time to time and require re-pairing, which is sometimes not easy, and very frustrating. Wifi on the other end didn't pose issues (but need to be hardwired)
Interesting video. Now my 2 cents :-) Bluetooth avoid. Wi-Fi avoid as it congests your Wi-Fi router (if you have a lot of devices) and a bunch more issues. Zigbee ignore as it is flaky, and everything seems to interfere with the devices. As for Z-wave and Smartthings, I have 79 devices devices on Smarthings, the vast majority of them being Z-Wave, only RGB lights and water leak sensors are Zigbee (RGB lights are actually hue , but even they will connect directly to Smarthings without the Hue bridge.) Out of those 79 devices, only 1 device runs on the cloud, everything else runs locally, even most routines / automations. The only thing I do not like with Z-wave and Zigbee is a lot of devices use stupidly expensive batteries, hence why I hacked some of my devices which use 2450 batteries, to use 2 x AA batteries which now last massively times longer. As for that 'Group' , i'm pretty sure most of that will be cloud processed and all your information then being shared by everyone.
This very awesome video was released in 2020, however Sigma announced that it was making Z wave an opensource standard since 2016 www.sigmadesigns.com/news/sigma-designs-releases-z-wave-interoperability-layer-into-the-public-domain/
FYI, Silicon Labs fully aquired Z-Wave in april of 2018 so it is no longer true that is licensed by Sigma Designs. Silicon Labs has since then changes the licence to make it a more open standard so that other companies can license the rights to make Z-Wave chips, but as far as I know no other company has done so as if yet.
As an old RF enthusiast from the walkie-talkie days thanks for the catchup on comm tech for the home. Best Buy and all are selling this stuff and almost no one you talk to understands the big picture or the science behind it. (this includes cable-internet providers). I hope to be able to get enough out of this to get some project off the ground for modest cost.
Great explanation! Learned a few new things (I had no idea of C.H.I.P. for example) and also re-affirmed some stuff that I already knew about. There is however one extra popular solution that you missed out on and which is primarily used by big companies: cable, and in the case of home automation, ethernet cabling. It is by far the most reliable option and also the one that has the lowest latency (speed is not as important, when your temperature sensor requires 1Gbit/s speeds you might have other problems) and you can send out electricity as well which eliminates the need for batteries. That being said, installing cable everywhere isn't something to get started in the IoT stuff: wifi and zigbee work just as well. Can't speak for Z-Wave as I don't have any device that uses it.
Small note / correction Z-Wave uses the 915 MHz ISM band (in the U.S / Canada for example) and the 868 MHz RFID band (in Europe) if you are purchasing devices from an international seller make sure you get the correct one for your region.
Fantastic overview! I'm building up my Home Assistant system with both Z-Wave and Zigbee. I've been avoiding Wi-Fi because it's possible for those devices to communicate over the internet unless I specifically block them on my firewall but I hadn't heard that there was custom firmware available...it sounds like there is another rabbit hole for me to dive into.
I am fond of the local network setup you described, but the network is not a physical redundant infrastructure, but a VLan based one with all the access restrictions in place
Amazing about frequencies and their danger. Know that in labs treating cellular communication we are not only interested in frequencies (ionizing or not) but also in the power emitted and captured by the body.
The danger is different though. If you are around high amplitude waves you know it, you can feel the heat on your skin and the danger comes from heat rather than chemical changes. Ionizing radiation is much less detectable and does damage on a molecular level.
Another great video. My smart home consists of all Z-Wave devices running on homeseer Smart Home software. Really easy to configure in use very versatile
This was going to be my comment as well. I have been using HomeSeer for the last 12 years and would estimate I am 80% z-wave. Home automation has nothing to do with being able to turn your lights on and off from your phone (that is remote control, not HA). Home automation is all about whatever system you select being able to remove manual steps and automating the results. IMHO the event engine and extendability (plug-ins) of HomeSeer makes it by far the best option currently and should be mentioned in every HA video. ... but you know, just my opinion 🤗
Got a few comments as one that works in a business that uses the zigbee standard, a. zigbee has several frequencies we use 868MHz and 2.4GHz and zigbee is an open standard allowing third parties to create products but there are also many standards that are applied by zigbee to specify the way this different types of items can talk but not restricting the provider from giving more options, i.e. the "Smart Metering Equipment Technical Specifications" adds onto the zigbee specification adding the protocol definition for a metering device, this means that a device that talks to a metering device must follow this standard in order to be zigbee certified, i think there is also a consideration to the power per distance area, as a mesh network only needs to reach its next node it uses far less power over the same distance which will result in less interference and add the sleepy end devices and zigbee green devices which are only active when they need to bee you have a lot of power and interferance savings that make the mesh networks like z wave and zigbee far more reliable than a wifi
Have lots of zwave devices and work with smart grid 900MHz products at home too. Don’t have interference issues with either. The only time I had a zwave network issue was when a zwave thermostat failed and was continuously transmitting. Operating for about 10 years now.
Vivint SmartHome uses all three. It uses WiFi (or Ethernet, optionally, if it’s a new construction or something and hardwiring the whole thing is feasible) to connect the hub to all the cameras and also to connect the hub to the WWW. Vivint has a Z-wave hub built in to connect to locks, lights, window blinds, Vivint’s Element thermostat, etc. Vivint also uses WiFi to connect to some compatible products that use Zigbee, such as the Phillips Hue lightbulb system.
Super awesome as usual. Tons of useful, accessible information with a reasonable leadin and a brief but adequate plug at the end for self-promotion. I'm going to go check out the patreon now - thank you for doing this!
think it's important to clarify something, about this "No such thing as incompatible wifi" point. Because for the context of our topic, it's important to understand that these _Wifi_ "smart devices" are not directly operating by receiving and reading, writing and sending, raw instructions and status information - that just happen to be wrapped up in the type of packaging neccessary for sending and receiving them through your wifi router (etc). They basically have tiny, simplified computers inside, running their own software. And the data being communicated back and forth, is in a language and format this software understands. It is then this software that decides what to with it, and eventually instruct the hardware inside to do something (like send power to the LEDs inside its lightbulb). However, this software and the languages it knows can be different even between different types of devices from the same manufacturer, and especially so for devices from different brands/manufacturers. Also, each device has its own ID. So even if the case where software running on two devices from two different brands, happen to speak the same language - they may look at the device's ID, see that it's not a device from the same brand/manufacturer, and then just ignore or throw out any communication going to or coming from that device. Or, in some cases, one of them may have a very rudimentary understanding of one language both knows, and therefore only send, receive and execute very basic instructions. Like only turning on or off an RGB lightbulb, not doing any adjustment of the color or dimming. As a metaphor: These devices _do _*_not_* operate like if you make an image of a lightbulb and a lit up power button, prints and puts that image in an envelope and the right type of stamp (here your postal service have strict regulation of which envelope types are allowed). Then you sends that envelope through the postal service (your wifi router/network) to your friend, he/she opens the envelope, see the image (image illustration is used to sidestep any language barrier) - and then know to push the button to switch on the lightbulb, and does it. Instead, these devices are running software systems, like a very small and simple computer. And all incoming and outgoing communication goes through that software layer. Like if you and your friend is working for two different companies. To communicate, you call up the company Communication Department and tell them what you want your friend to know. Then that department create the letter, put it in the appropriate type of envelope, and send it through the post - to be received by your friend's company's Communication Department. The important thing to note and understand here - is that this software layer, the Communication Departments - they don't just universally perform this task. They also decide which companies they are willing to send mail to, and receive mail from. And it's very common that they will only process mail to/from from other branches of the same company.
geez man... it's like you speak my language. great advice and exactly what i want to know. Really want to see a video like this evaluating the current state of outdoor cameras and how to use them with local control. a shootout of cameras, if you will... thanks again!
Galaxy Brain: run Home Assistant with dongles and you can have any combination of WiFi, Zigbee, and ZWave devices and integrate them all however you want
Thank you for the great video it's really useful. I understand you don't tend to advertise specific brands but what do you recommend for wireless wall switches and IR blasters for home assistant? I'm using Raspberry Pi 4.
Another thing with Wifi devices... they want to 'call home' send data to company EVEN If you don't USE cloud. Kasa TP link devices. as an example. I put them on a non internet network.. ( check out your pi-hole see all these devices 'calling home' using bandwidth... Also, Get router with OpenVpn built in. Then get Open VPN App on your phone... fun times had by all!! Cut out the "cloud" middle man! Great Video.
Wish this came out a week ago, I have been learning the hard expensive way that zigbee (which sounded the cheap easy way) is a non-standard and very few things work together. All I want are some cheap door sensors that work reliably for now - even trying to figure out what can be a zigbee repeater is a headache because some plugs work with the hub and sensors work with the hub but the plug won't repeat "those" sensors defeating the point. Z-Wave "just works" and universal plug in repeaters seem easy to find. Unfortunately also the Z-Wave devices are many times physically larger (door sensors about 4x bigger) and there is less of a selection of types of sensors it looks like (e.g. I only found one vibration sensor and it had bad reviews for randomly switching on/off state to mean triggered). Esphome seems the best option of you don't have to use battery power...cheap sensors and easy to reflash (especially thru the Home Assist addon) and they "just work" with high reliability. My Sonoff s31 outlets that have replaced dozens of lamp timers are cheap and highly reliable so far with loads of customization options to add functionality and flexability if I want. Only downside is you have to program the ssid and passphrase into the device vs pushing a pair button
Love the vid, I have smarthings and a mix of wifi and zigbee. I had a pile of issues with interference when I started since I also have 5 wireless roku TVs that use wifi remotes. Once I upgraded to netgear orbi and moved my main devices over to 5gh things got better. The one thing I wish that was easier is finding new products it's such a pain to verify if they work with smart things because I hate having to use another app for each device. This vid really helped me understand the difference for sure thanks for your info.
Where I live, the 900mhz (old GSM) band has been delegated to emergency and response coms (anyone from red cross, volunteer search pros, police, military etc have coms devices, the network has strong rural and outfield coverage, has been hardened and isolated to be less vulnerable to kinetic and cyber attacks etc - all the expected attributes for the network's purpose). 800+mhz is for broadband, and below this we start running into a bit of a cluster-F, so guessing we won't get to enjoy Z-wave.
I think it's worth mentioning that although zwave devices should be "theoretically" compatible. There are couple of zwave frequencies for different parts of the world. Very Important if you are buying your devices online.
For the most part, ZigBee and zwave devices have predefined interfaces that allow interoperability while there is essentially no such thing with wifi devices. Wifi is just the transport, ZigBee and zwave devices understand on off dim messages, etc
My Zigbee devices (about 20 lamps and a few door sensors) have never let me down once for more than over a year. My only WiFi lamp fails to respond at least once a day... I know, I would need much more data / examples to be sure but I'm pretty done with WiFi for smart thingies.
“I’m gonna tell you more than you ever wanted to know” Me: Nah I’m pretty sure I wanna know everythi- “This spectrum’s wavelength and frequency are multiplied together to…” Me: “nvm”
You don't have to flash devices to make them local only. You just have to set them up on their own network, and firewall it. Only allow access to a single IP address through to another machine on a different internal network - your Home Assistant server or whatever you use. Then when you're adding devices, it really doesn't matter if it's trying to "phone home" or not - it can't.
While useful information, a lot of people will use the modem and router that came with their ISP contract (in US at least). Most of those routers have very limited functionality for a firewall, with most being able to do basic port forwarding only.
@@TechDogeth Yeah, I have one of those crappy ATT devices. Set it to passthrough mode to a real router, connect routers WAN interface to the crappy modem and don't use the carrier provided box as the firewall at all. Mine is a custom built Opnsense machine in a 2U chassis, but you can buy a Netgate appliance with Pfsense already installed. that goes into a couple of managed switches. A setup similar to mine can be had for about 300 bucks, maybe less. That's for new equipment, not used.
Great Videos. Very Addicting...one of your replies said the only zwave you have are locks and a curtain module. So I assume most of the rest are wifi/mqtt based. If so have you noticed any congestion, lags or delays with having so many things on Wi-Fi? Thanks again for the great videos.
@@TheHookUp Thanks Rob. based on you answer here you have chosen the wifi/mqtt devices, did you flash all of these devices with tasmota firmware (from the reasons you have mentioned in the video (10:45) ? I will appreciate your reply. Thanks Again.
Excellent info on Smart devices connectivity, i have been researching for about a week, i this is video helped a lot, i am still looking for more info on how often WiFi devices communicate to the router and what is the Tx power output , i.e. constant communication ? every certain period ? when device is off or on only ? time of activation communication etc.. i can find much online.
Love the video and simple explanation on how it works and pros and cons... I just miss a simple explanation on how to find out if your zigbee devices are on the same or in many parallel mesh networks.. Could anyone explain how to find this out?
@@TheHookUp Thank you for answering so quickly... I use Smartthingg at the moment.. Is there a way to do visualization with that? or in any other way maybe by mobile phone?
Many sensors use UDP instead of TCP over IP protocol. Thus, WiFi implies IP communication protocol but doesn't require TCP transport protocol to be used.
Only minor correction: some Samsung Smartthings devices are 'local' and some are 'cloud'. So, some automations can run locally. Though if you have any custom devices, they're going to be maddeningly cloud-based so doing something simple like a door chime when your window or door is opened can lag by many seconds. If your Internet is down, you won't get those notifications or they'll all come rushing in once the Internet is restored. After having been a long-time Samsung Smartthings user, I've switched to running the open source Home Assistant now. Almost everything is local and lightning fast without lags.
@@TheHookUp Yup, you're right that push notifications are cloud-based. I kind of expect push notifications to be a bit laggy, so that delay doesn't bother me (and I generally didn't use notifications to my smartphone with Smartthings.) What annoyed me much more were the delays for turning on lights with cloud-based devices and getting a simple chime to happen in real time was impossible with cloud devices. Home Assistant is a god send in that arena, plus all the other flexibility you get if you're a tinkerer... Thanks for your other videos and guides BTW. I've used a number of them to reflash my Lohas RGB lights to add to my first Christmas light show, used your schematic for creating relays (though not for a pool timer), tips on Node Red, and a few other things probably that I'm forgetting.
With the benefits of Z-Wave, and how there's more DIY solutions coming about, like Z-Way's various products, some being Z-Wave Plus certified, Z-wave seems like a better solution currently. At least until Connected Home Over IP is a viable solution, though I have security concerns given the companies involved, as with the typical security concerns of anything over IP, as well as the general security of IP devices themselves, both actual security and data privacy; though unifying every standard into an intercompatible ecosystem sounds really nice. Though I would like to see Z-Wave improve their product, especially with their mesh network, maybe take notes from how WiFi handles their mesh networks and adapt Z-Wave to a similar model, 4 hops really isn't that many if you're spreading devices out across a building.
Good information. Can you please tell me in Home Automation out of these which technology is best and presently used with wide products, if we want to control the devices from Mobile app as well ??? ( zigbee vs z-wave vs Bluetooth vs WiFi ) We are stepping into manufacturing industry of making Home Automation devices like Smart switches, motion sensor, door sensor, and all. Also We are developing our own mobile application through which we can control all the devices. So, hopefully i clear my point to you. Now can you tell me which protocol or wireless technology is best to use in our products ????
I like the idea of standardizing on Wi-Fi, because we all need Wi-Fi networks anyway and there are good tools to deploy, manage, and troubleshoot them. However, there are still some dealbreakers for me: 1. Security. Many/most wifi-enabled devices, including all of the wonderful esp8266-based devices, have no encryption at all, and often no authentication either. This might be OK for mood lighting, but it's a complete non-starter for remote controls, garage doors, deadbolts, etc. 2. Internet dependence. Although of course it's possible to use Wi-Fi without relying on the Internet, in practice, so many consumer smart devices which use Wi-Fi are severely crippled or fail in mysterious ways when no internet is available. There's no way to distinguish these devices from those which work properly without buying them and testing for an extended period of time. 3. Power consumption. Even well-designed Wi-Fi devices consume a lot more power than those which use purpose-built low-power protocols. It's a lot to ask for a protocol to be efficient for sending a few bytes per hour and also many megabits per second. This means that battery power is rarely if ever a viable option. These factors mean that I expect to continue to use at least some Z-Wave devices in my network for some time. And I couldn't recommend to someone just starting out that they go Wi-Fi-only.
Yep, there's no such thing as an application layer automation protocol that runs on top of IP, like Zigbee has standardized; no real interoperability is ever guaranteed or even hinted at. At the end of the day, saying a device uses Wifi doesn't necessarily tell you anything more useful in practical terms than saying it's made from 100% baryonic matter.
I can do a bit by bit explanation but Here's the rule of thumb: PCs, Smartphones, IP cameras >> Wifi/ ip network. ANY other device, Zigbee or Z-wave. I know it's fun to see ips in every lamp. But that is a dumb choice. To much devices over wifi will kill your network and increase energy consumption. On the other side the zwave and zigbee are engineering wonders. VERY low power consumption e.g pir sensor two AA batteries can last up to 2 years ! Also as they are low power emitting your wifi is running at it's full. Simple.
This was a OUTSTANDING video! I am an engineer who put X-10 in over 20 years ago and recently moved so it is time to learn the new technology options. Rob explained it all so that you can understand the tradeoffs. And they ARE trade-offs, if there was one "best" we would all just use it. Duh! Excellent discussion on RF, well done! And as a cyber security guy, you gave me a lot to consider. I still have a LOT to learn, but this 15 minute video saved me gobs of research time. In fact, I was keen on the Z-Wave when you started talking as 933 MHz appealed to me as it is not in a congested frequency range PLUS the penetration of 933 Hz vs 2.4 GHz. That was until you taught me about the Connected Home Over IP standards and how Z-Wave "couldn't play in reindeer games." BUZZ! Thanks for playing. Next! Great video! Good starting point for any geek who wants to learn more! THANK YOU!
Excellent Summary Curt. We are both dated. Cut my teeth on X10. For a long time was the only thing to use for automation. Technology has definitely moved on.
Connected home over IP makes sense if you have a strong WiFi network. Z-Wave makes sense if WiFI coverage is spotty in your house. Then you can take advantage of the Mesh network of Zwave. I was thinking about the Lutron line, but that is proprietary. The switches are extremely reliable. One person has had Lutron switches in his house for 5 years and never replaced one.
@@SidebandSamurai Really good to know. Good intel! Thanks!
This video answered questions I didn't even know I had. Thank you so much!
Same!
agree
Best technology tutorial I’ve seen. Clear language no technical jargon and great metaphors to explain complex protocols to non-techies. I’ve a teaching background in technology and haven’t seen a better presentation. Thank you
Thanks Dave!
Gosh darn... i love this channel. Seriously, when i see it when I'm searching for something I know straight away I'm going to watch an informative video, which respects my time and is very well communicated. Thanks!
Came here after searching many sites and watching many videos to decide on which protocol to use and I found my answer. Thank you for the clear explanation!
This is the reason of being for the internet.
One knows knowledge when one hears it.
Just won a sub. Well done man
Wonderfully thought out video. I had been down all 3 rabbit holes when trying to decide which one to pick. It was nice to see a completely independent video reach the same conclusions I did, but explained in such an easy to understand format.
Thank you for info and your time. "IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE TO LOVE IN"
like the features, setup was difficult for some of my devices (August Door lock, ruclips.net/user/postUgkxhB5YOMNj04GuoAosExygP4cH-dKeb4aB Bose speaker)... but all switches and outlets (5), thermostat, tankless water heater. Unfortunately all I can do is turn on/off Bose. It doesn't support volume or changing channels, but I believe that is due to the particular speaker I have.... Worth getting if you already have other devices to use it with... I don't sit around and ask Alexa questions much so that doesn't really matter to me....
A good overview. However you missed the Z-Wave is extensible language. What this means is manufacturers have to use the existing commands if one already exists but can create new ones if they do not exist in the spec. So for example if someone wanted to make a Z-Wave instant pot they would have to use the Z-Wave standards for on and off but they would get to use their own commands for setting the temperature. Z-Wave is actually administered by the Z-Wave Alliance which while mostly controlled by sigma designs does have several dozen companies involved who wind up voting on which new commands to add to the protocol.
Awesome content, great delivery, down to earth language, know his audience but also adapts the message to newcomers... Thank you so much for making these videos.
Thank you for the awesome video! One thing to mention, if you want smart dimmer switch and you don't have neutral wire, Z Wave is your only choice (as of today IIUC).
you *could* cheat and use a ground :)
@@leen.3785 might trip DFCI breaker?
This is a topic I have been waiting on for a while. Thank you!
As an IT engineer I cant help but think that wifi smart home devices will congest my wifi network. This may not manifest in real word degradation but I cant get past the theory so I go with z-wave, about 60 devices total.
WiFi smart home devices are all on 2.4ghz, so you really shouldn’t see any issues with the devices that you want to be “fast”. It also means that WiFi 6 isn’t going to have a large impact on smart home devices,
@@TheHookUp i came to this video because my wifi is congested with too many switches, caneras etc all connected to the 2.4 Ghz band. But I'll search for the network channel congestion fix per your video first.
Bought a CC2530 stick from aliexpress and flashed it. Zigbee2mqtt for use as a hub. Integrated into Home assistant. Works perfect, finally I can use Hue motion sensors for some other lights than Hues. And total cost under 10 usd. And they have very wide support for devices and you can even make new devices supported yourself. Only minus is that you need additional powered CC2530 sticks to get over 15 zigbee devices. Recommended!
All Zwave must work with all other Zwave by its manufacture specs. Zigbee is "open source" but does NOT have to work with other Zigbee devices. This means that Zigbee can work one day then not work because of a software change. Just be aware of this when you design your systems. Best advice is to get a hub that has all of the "radios" you will need.
Thanks for your video it was super informative. I appreciate it's now 3 years old. Have you considered doing a video about ‘Matter’ Smart Home Standard?
Nice presentation Rob. I'm a bigger fan of zigbee myself, not really for concrete reasons except it was more appealing as far as price and availability of products (most likely due to the zwave being so locked down as you mentioned) Ultimately I'm glad I have less devices to worry about with my wifi AP. Ultimately a great video for newcomers. Good work.
The combination of detail and brevity here is great! Thank you!
In the long run, after using WiFi, zwave and zigbee devices for several years, my favorite is wifi.
Zigbee and zwave tends to disconnect from time to time and require re-pairing, which is sometimes not easy, and very frustrating.
Wifi on the other end didn't pose issues (but need to be hardwired)
Interesting video. Now my 2 cents :-) Bluetooth avoid. Wi-Fi avoid as it congests your Wi-Fi router (if you have a lot of devices) and a bunch more issues. Zigbee ignore as it is flaky, and everything seems to interfere with the devices. As for Z-wave and Smartthings, I have 79 devices devices on Smarthings, the vast majority of them being Z-Wave, only RGB lights and water leak sensors are Zigbee (RGB lights are actually hue , but even they will connect directly to Smarthings without the Hue bridge.) Out of those 79 devices, only 1 device runs on the cloud, everything else runs locally, even most routines / automations. The only thing I do not like with Z-wave and Zigbee is a lot of devices use stupidly expensive batteries, hence why I hacked some of my devices which use 2450 batteries, to use 2 x AA batteries which now last massively times longer. As for that 'Group' , i'm pretty sure most of that will be cloud processed and all your information then being shared by everyone.
Hey Rob,
They actually opensourced Z-wave a day after the Connected Home Over IP was announced.
Too late
@@TeodorMarinov Better late than never.
This very awesome video was released in 2020, however Sigma announced that it was making Z wave an opensource standard since 2016 www.sigmadesigns.com/news/sigma-designs-releases-z-wave-interoperability-layer-into-the-public-domain/
Just checked and it seems like Sigma Designs went bankrupt. Wow.
They aren’t bankrupt, they were purchased by SiLabs, one of the largest chip producers in the world.
thanks for all the explanations, I wonder if something from your conclusions would be different today :)
Great overview!
Just got interested in the smart home concept and what's there on the market these days, got the answers I needed, thank you)
FYI, Silicon Labs fully aquired Z-Wave in april of 2018 so it is no longer true that is licensed by Sigma Designs. Silicon Labs has since then changes the licence to make it a more open standard so that other companies can license the rights to make Z-Wave chips, but as far as I know no other company has done so as if yet.
As an old RF enthusiast from the walkie-talkie days thanks for the catchup on comm tech for the home. Best Buy and all are selling this stuff and almost no one you talk to understands the big picture or the science behind it. (this includes cable-internet providers). I hope to be able to get enough out of this to get some project off the ground for modest cost.
Very good narration. Very informative and easy to understand by any layman. Thanks
This is a detailed, accurate and well informed explanation of the home automation technologies. Well done.
Great explanation! Learned a few new things (I had no idea of C.H.I.P. for example) and also re-affirmed some stuff that I already knew about. There is however one extra popular solution that you missed out on and which is primarily used by big companies: cable, and in the case of home automation, ethernet cabling. It is by far the most reliable option and also the one that has the lowest latency (speed is not as important, when your temperature sensor requires 1Gbit/s speeds you might have other problems) and you can send out electricity as well which eliminates the need for batteries. That being said, installing cable everywhere isn't something to get started in the IoT stuff: wifi and zigbee work just as well. Can't speak for Z-Wave as I don't have any device that uses it.
The dream is to have walls filled with miles of cat6 cable, unfortunately not very common though.
Small note / correction Z-Wave uses the 915 MHz ISM band (in the U.S / Canada for example) and the 868 MHz RFID band (in Europe) if you are purchasing devices from an international seller make sure you get the correct one for your region.
Well said, a customer of mine had this issue, not all people know that the frequency depend on region
Woah. That drive thru analogy blew my mind! Haha
Fantastic overview! I'm building up my Home Assistant system with both Z-Wave and Zigbee. I've been avoiding Wi-Fi because it's possible for those devices to communicate over the internet unless I specifically block them on my firewall but I hadn't heard that there was custom firmware available...it sounds like there is another rabbit hole for me to dive into.
I am fond of the local network setup you described, but the network is not a physical redundant infrastructure, but a VLan based one with all the access restrictions in place
Amazing about frequencies and their danger. Know that in labs treating cellular communication we are not only interested in frequencies (ionizing or not) but also in the power emitted and captured by the body.
The danger is different though. If you are around high amplitude waves you know it, you can feel the heat on your skin and the danger comes from heat rather than chemical changes. Ionizing radiation is much less detectable and does damage on a molecular level.
Great job explaining these different protocols. Much appreciate it!
It it worth noting that all these standards communicates on different frequencies in us and europe and rest of the world.
Another great video. My smart home consists of all Z-Wave devices running on homeseer Smart Home software. Really easy to configure in use very versatile
This was going to be my comment as well. I have been using HomeSeer for the last 12 years and would estimate I am 80% z-wave. Home automation has nothing to do with being able to turn your lights on and off from your phone (that is remote control, not HA). Home automation is all about whatever system you select being able to remove manual steps and automating the results. IMHO the event engine and extendability (plug-ins) of HomeSeer makes it by far the best option currently and should be mentioned in every HA video. ... but you know, just my opinion 🤗
Got a few comments as one that works in a business that uses the zigbee standard, a. zigbee has several frequencies we use 868MHz and 2.4GHz and zigbee is an open standard allowing third parties to create products but there are also many standards that are applied by zigbee to specify the way this different types of items can talk but not restricting the provider from giving more options, i.e. the "Smart Metering Equipment Technical Specifications" adds onto the zigbee specification adding the protocol definition for a metering device, this means that a device that talks to a metering device must follow this standard in order to be zigbee certified, i think there is also a consideration to the power per distance area, as a mesh network only needs to reach its next node it uses far less power over the same distance which will result in less interference and add the sleepy end devices and zigbee green devices which are only active when they need to bee you have a lot of power and interferance savings that make the mesh networks like z wave and zigbee far more reliable than a wifi
Love your vids Rob... thank you for all you do to help advance home automation!
Very well explained. I liked a lot this video.
Have lots of zwave devices and work with smart grid 900MHz products at home too. Don’t have interference issues with either. The only time I had a zwave network issue was when a zwave thermostat failed and was continuously transmitting. Operating for about 10 years now.
Another awesome video Rob, everything in the video was accurate and can easily be understood. The comparison was nice. By a communication engineer
Thanks , Was waiting for someone to explain for ages :)
Keep up the awesome work
Vivint SmartHome uses all three.
It uses WiFi (or Ethernet, optionally, if it’s a new construction or something and hardwiring the whole thing is feasible) to connect the hub to all the cameras and also to connect the hub to the WWW.
Vivint has a Z-wave hub built in to connect to locks, lights, window blinds, Vivint’s Element thermostat, etc.
Vivint also uses WiFi to connect to some compatible products that use Zigbee, such as the Phillips Hue lightbulb system.
Super awesome as usual. Tons of useful, accessible information with a reasonable leadin and a brief but adequate plug at the end for self-promotion. I'm going to go check out the patreon now - thank you for doing this!
think it's important to clarify something, about this "No such thing as incompatible wifi" point. Because for the context of our topic, it's important to understand that these _Wifi_ "smart devices" are not directly operating by receiving and reading, writing and sending, raw instructions and status information - that just happen to be wrapped up in the type of packaging neccessary for sending and receiving them through your wifi router (etc). They basically have tiny, simplified computers inside, running their own software. And the data being communicated back and forth, is in a language and format this software understands. It is then this software that decides what to with it, and eventually instruct the hardware inside to do something (like send power to the LEDs inside its lightbulb). However, this software and the languages it knows can be different even between different types of devices from the same manufacturer, and especially so for devices from different brands/manufacturers. Also, each device has its own ID. So even if the case where software running on two devices from two different brands, happen to speak the same language - they may look at the device's ID, see that it's not a device from the same brand/manufacturer, and then just ignore or throw out any communication going to or coming from that device. Or, in some cases, one of them may have a very rudimentary understanding of one language both knows, and therefore only send, receive and execute very basic instructions. Like only turning on or off an RGB lightbulb, not doing any adjustment of the color or dimming.
As a metaphor: These devices _do _*_not_* operate like if you make an image of a lightbulb and a lit up power button, prints and puts that image in an envelope and the right type of stamp (here your postal service have strict regulation of which envelope types are allowed). Then you sends that envelope through the postal service (your wifi router/network) to your friend, he/she opens the envelope, see the image (image illustration is used to sidestep any language barrier) - and then know to push the button to switch on the lightbulb, and does it.
Instead, these devices are running software systems, like a very small and simple computer. And all incoming and outgoing communication goes through that software layer. Like if you and your friend is working for two different companies. To communicate, you call up the company Communication Department and tell them what you want your friend to know. Then that department create the letter, put it in the appropriate type of envelope, and send it through the post - to be received by your friend's company's Communication Department.
The important thing to note and understand here - is that this software layer, the Communication Departments - they don't just universally perform this task. They also decide which companies they are willing to send mail to, and receive mail from. And it's very common that they will only process mail to/from from other branches of the same company.
geez man... it's like you speak my language. great advice and exactly what i want to know. Really want to see a video like this evaluating the current state of outdoor cameras and how to use them with local control. a shootout of cameras, if you will... thanks again!
Here you go: ruclips.net/video/fwoonl5JKgo/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/WXD82epDPE4/видео.html
Galaxy Brain: run Home Assistant with dongles and you can have any combination of WiFi, Zigbee, and ZWave devices and integrate them all however you want
Thank you for the great video it's really useful. I understand you don't tend to advertise specific brands but what do you recommend for wireless wall switches and IR blasters for home assistant? I'm using Raspberry Pi 4.
Thanks for the methodical explanations, man! Your efforts go a long way when speaking IOT when so few are prepared to or even comprehend.
Another thing with Wifi devices... they want to 'call home' send data to company EVEN If you don't USE cloud. Kasa TP link devices. as an example. I put them on a non internet network.. ( check out your pi-hole see all these devices 'calling home' using bandwidth...
Also, Get router with OpenVpn built in. Then get Open VPN App on your phone... fun times had by all!! Cut out the "cloud" middle man!
Great Video.
Wish this came out a week ago, I have been learning the hard expensive way that zigbee (which sounded the cheap easy way) is a non-standard and very few things work together. All I want are some cheap door sensors that work reliably for now - even trying to figure out what can be a zigbee repeater is a headache because some plugs work with the hub and sensors work with the hub but the plug won't repeat "those" sensors defeating the point. Z-Wave "just works" and universal plug in repeaters seem easy to find.
Unfortunately also the Z-Wave devices are many times physically larger (door sensors about 4x bigger) and there is less of a selection of types of sensors it looks like (e.g. I only found one vibration sensor and it had bad reviews for randomly switching on/off state to mean triggered).
Esphome seems the best option of you don't have to use battery power...cheap sensors and easy to reflash (especially thru the Home Assist addon) and they "just work" with high reliability. My Sonoff s31 outlets that have replaced dozens of lamp timers are cheap and highly reliable so far with loads of customization options to add functionality and flexability if I want. Only downside is you have to program the ssid and passphrase into the device vs pushing a pair button
I'm not sure what you are using but I am happy with using Deconz with the accompanying dongle to use devices from various manufacturers.
Love the vid, I have smarthings and a mix of wifi and zigbee. I had a pile of issues with interference when I started since I also have 5 wireless roku TVs that use wifi remotes. Once I upgraded to netgear orbi and moved my main devices over to 5gh things got better. The one thing I wish that was easier is finding new products it's such a pain to verify if they work with smart things because I hate having to use another app for each device. This vid really helped me understand the difference for sure thanks for your info.
Well stated by a true technology professional. Thank you.
Zigbee - ability to cut out the cloud for local access/communication is a key point that other videos fail to mention.
All the protocols can do that.
This video is put together well and has great detail. Thanks and Cheers 👍
Z-Wave also use different frequenzy in different regions.
Great video! Although quite technical this is the first one that was understandable as well.
Where I live, the 900mhz (old GSM) band has been delegated to emergency and response coms (anyone from red cross, volunteer search pros, police, military etc have coms devices, the network has strong rural and outfield coverage, has been hardened and isolated to be less vulnerable to kinetic and cyber attacks etc - all the expected attributes for the network's purpose). 800+mhz is for broadband, and below this we start running into a bit of a cluster-F, so guessing we won't get to enjoy Z-wave.
Wonderful explanation of the differences , keep up the great videos.
Would love to see a video on your opinion of the Ubiquiti UDMs.
Very nice tutorial on the various protocols used in home automation!
I think it's worth mentioning that although zwave devices should be "theoretically" compatible.
There are couple of zwave frequencies for different parts of the world.
Very Important if you are buying your devices online.
Excellent presentation
Fantastic video...your content is top notch mate.
For the most part, ZigBee and zwave devices have predefined interfaces that allow interoperability while there is essentially no such thing with wifi devices. Wifi is just the transport, ZigBee and zwave devices understand on off dim messages, etc
Great video. Well explained and very informative. Thank you.
My Zigbee devices (about 20 lamps and a few door sensors) have never let me down once for more than over a year.
My only WiFi lamp fails to respond at least once a day... I know, I would need much more data / examples to be sure but I'm pretty done with WiFi for smart thingies.
Very detailed and awesome explanation. Much appreciated.
“I’m gonna tell you more than you ever wanted to know”
Me: Nah I’m pretty sure I wanna know everythi-
“This spectrum’s wavelength and frequency are multiplied together to…”
Me: “nvm”
You don't have to flash devices to make them local only. You just have to set them up on their own network, and firewall it. Only allow access to a single IP address through to another machine on a different internal network - your Home Assistant server or whatever you use. Then when you're adding devices, it really doesn't matter if it's trying to "phone home" or not - it can't.
While useful information, a lot of people will use the modem and router that came with their ISP contract (in US at least). Most of those routers have very limited functionality for a firewall, with most being able to do basic port forwarding only.
@@TechDogeth Yeah, I have one of those crappy ATT devices. Set it to passthrough mode to a real router, connect routers WAN interface to the crappy modem and don't use the carrier provided box as the firewall at all. Mine is a custom built Opnsense machine in a 2U chassis, but you can buy a Netgate appliance with Pfsense already installed. that goes into a couple of managed switches.
A setup similar to mine can be had for about 300 bucks, maybe less. That's for new equipment, not used.
I use z-wave for door locks and door sensors. Due to proprietary restrictions, less likely to be hacked.
Great Videos. Very Addicting...one of your replies said the only zwave you have are locks and a curtain module. So I assume most of the rest are wifi/mqtt based. If so have you noticed any congestion, lags or delays with having so many things on Wi-Fi? Thanks again for the great videos.
Nah, wifi congestion is the boogie man that zigbee manufacturers are spreading
@@TheHookUp Thanks Rob. based on you answer here you have chosen the wifi/mqtt devices, did you flash all of these devices with tasmota firmware (from the reasons you have mentioned in the video (10:45) ? I will appreciate your reply.
Thanks Again.
Excellent info on Smart devices connectivity, i have been researching for about a week, i this is video helped a lot, i am still looking for more info on how often WiFi devices communicate to the router and what is the Tx power output , i.e. constant communication ? every certain period ? when device is off or on only ? time of activation communication etc.. i can find much online.
Wish I had you as my science teacher
I'm thinking of using WIFI devices for Switches and PLUGS since i don't have to worry about battery usage and use everything else for sensors.
Love the video and simple explanation on how it works and pros and cons... I just miss a simple explanation on how to find out if your zigbee devices are on the same or in many parallel mesh networks.. Could anyone explain how to find this out?
Depends on the zigbee system. On home assistant you can visualize your mesh to see exactly what route a device is taking.
@@TheHookUp
Thank you for answering so quickly...
I use Smartthingg at the moment.. Is there a way to do visualization with that? or in any other way maybe by mobile phone?
Excellent discussion and advice!
This video is amazing, thanks for sharing. Any chance on an update video, that includes Thread/Matter and LORA?
Yep, that video is in the works.
Many sensors use UDP instead of TCP over IP protocol. Thus, WiFi implies IP communication protocol but doesn't require TCP transport protocol to be used.
As ever, clarity, well delivered. Thank you.
thank you so much for this AWESOME video!
We need a new video with all the new information out now three years later.
Only minor correction: some Samsung Smartthings devices are 'local' and some are 'cloud'. So, some automations can run locally. Though if you have any custom devices, they're going to be maddeningly cloud-based so doing something simple like a door chime when your window or door is opened can lag by many seconds. If your Internet is down, you won't get those notifications or they'll all come rushing in once the Internet is restored.
After having been a long-time Samsung Smartthings user, I've switched to running the open source Home Assistant now. Almost everything is local and lightning fast without lags.
Push notifications will always be cloud based though, that's why I picked them for the specific example.
@@TheHookUp Yup, you're right that push notifications are cloud-based. I kind of expect push notifications to be a bit laggy, so that delay doesn't bother me (and I generally didn't use notifications to my smartphone with Smartthings.) What annoyed me much more were the delays for turning on lights with cloud-based devices and getting a simple chime to happen in real time was impossible with cloud devices. Home Assistant is a god send in that arena, plus all the other flexibility you get if you're a tinkerer...
Thanks for your other videos and guides BTW. I've used a number of them to reflash my Lohas RGB lights to add to my first Christmas light show, used your schematic for creating relays (though not for a pool timer), tips on Node Red, and a few other things probably that I'm forgetting.
With the benefits of Z-Wave, and how there's more DIY solutions coming about, like Z-Way's various products, some being Z-Wave Plus certified, Z-wave seems like a better solution currently. At least until Connected Home Over IP is a viable solution, though I have security concerns given the companies involved, as with the typical security concerns of anything over IP, as well as the general security of IP devices themselves, both actual security and data privacy; though unifying every standard into an intercompatible ecosystem sounds really nice. Though I would like to see Z-Wave improve their product, especially with their mesh network, maybe take notes from how WiFi handles their mesh networks and adapt Z-Wave to a similar model, 4 hops really isn't that many if you're spreading devices out across a building.
I think CHIP is basically ZigBee 2.0...seems like it will be an open "standard". Zwave is a sandbox, but that isn't a bad thing
I see, very helpful 🤔
I could flash a chip but do I was to go through that trouble 🤔
Love your clear explanation on which should I build Xiaomi or Tuya zigbee devices?
In my experience Xiaomi seems to be a little better than Tuya as far as compatibility.
@@TheHookUp thanks for responding
This is a very nice video, thank you
Great video! Thanks for your detailed explanations.
Can you do a video on Hubitat?
Good information. Can you please tell me in Home Automation out of these which technology is best and presently used with wide products, if we want to control the devices from Mobile app as well ??? ( zigbee vs z-wave vs Bluetooth vs WiFi )
We are stepping into manufacturing industry of making Home Automation devices like Smart switches, motion sensor, door sensor, and all. Also We are developing our own mobile application through which we can control all the devices. So, hopefully i clear my point to you. Now can you tell me which protocol or wireless technology is best to use in our products ????
If you are making your own app you will probably use WiFi
I like the idea of standardizing on Wi-Fi, because we all need Wi-Fi networks anyway and there are good tools to deploy, manage, and troubleshoot them. However, there are still some dealbreakers for me:
1. Security. Many/most wifi-enabled devices, including all of the wonderful esp8266-based devices, have no encryption at all, and often no authentication either. This might be OK for mood lighting, but it's a complete non-starter for remote controls, garage doors, deadbolts, etc.
2. Internet dependence. Although of course it's possible to use Wi-Fi without relying on the Internet, in practice, so many consumer smart devices which use Wi-Fi are severely crippled or fail in mysterious ways when no internet is available. There's no way to distinguish these devices from those which work properly without buying them and testing for an extended period of time.
3. Power consumption. Even well-designed Wi-Fi devices consume a lot more power than those which use purpose-built low-power protocols. It's a lot to ask for a protocol to be efficient for sending a few bytes per hour and also many megabits per second. This means that battery power is rarely if ever a viable option.
These factors mean that I expect to continue to use at least some Z-Wave devices in my network for some time. And I couldn't recommend to someone just starting out that they go Wi-Fi-only.
Yep, there's no such thing as an application layer automation protocol that runs on top of IP, like Zigbee has standardized; no real interoperability is ever guaranteed or even hinted at. At the end of the day, saying a device uses Wifi doesn't necessarily tell you anything more useful in practical terms than saying it's made from 100% baryonic matter.
Great content. Do you know KNX ? If yes, what are your thoughts about it ?
Just started with some Shelly (wifi) devices. Hubless and open source.
Pls rob, can u do a video about the rf433 mess as well? How they communicate and why not?
Thank you Teacher! Amazing video. Thanks for you time.
Cloud you talk about the pros and cons of BLE devices for a smart home?
Great info... thanks!
HomeSeer is awesome for zwave I’ve been using it for years. Much more robust than smart things.
Ji el
This video isbeautiful explains alot
I can do a bit by bit explanation but Here's the rule of thumb: PCs, Smartphones, IP cameras >> Wifi/ ip network. ANY other device, Zigbee or Z-wave. I know it's fun to see ips in every lamp. But that is a dumb choice. To much devices over wifi will kill your network and increase energy consumption. On the other side the zwave and zigbee are engineering wonders. VERY low power consumption e.g pir sensor two AA batteries can last up to 2 years ! Also as they are low power emitting your wifi is running at it's full. Simple.