Whetstone wars - BATTLE 5K - Shapton Kuromaku vs. Naniwa Professional Ceramic Whetstones
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- Опубликовано: 16 июн 2022
- It's another installment of whetstone wars! BATTLE 5K - Shapton Kuromaku vs. Naniwa Professional Ceramic Whetstones
Two other peoples champions going head-to-head in the battle 5000 grit. This 5K war begins with a sharpening two identical knives from Tokushu Knives. These Moritaka 210mm KS Gyuto I've seen every battle. We use these whestones in a head to head match to determine who helps us get the best edge when sharpening. Thank you Tony from Tokushu Knives. tokushuknife.com/
Moritaka Hamono Aogami Super Kurouchi 210mm Gyuto with Octagonal Walnut Wa Handle
tokushuknife.com/collections/...
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Whetstone Sharpening stone SHAPTON Ceramic KUROMAKU #5000
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Naniwa Chosera 5,000 Grit Stone - with Base
amzn.to/3xX5EKs
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The sharpening/whetstone community is very niche but has great content coming out from a few channels consistently. Thank you for your work. I like the touch of your producer/director/wife having input sometimes.
That’s why we might her up but I really want her to learn how to sharpen so that her opinion can just step up another notch. I think she’s learning so much over the years but I think it would be really great to have her grab the knife and feel it and critique the technique and criticize me more from a position of experience on top of the knowledge. But we definitely think you were coming and supporting us. I also appreciate it when you guys correct us and give us another layer of knowledge or keep us in check. We’re not above making mistakes. God bless
I like the feedback from your wife. She sounds like a lovely lady and helps provide a perspective from someone who's not overly into this hobby/niche.
This series is hands down my favourite RUclips content to watch. Thankyou for doing this
Thank you for your support and we appreciate you commenting and giving your opinion. God bless
@@nadm Totally agree! I love your comparison videos :)
@@Alex25CoB I really appreciate you guys telling us this. Thank you for the support and encouragement
A love to see the stone battle video. Very informative
Glad you enjoyed it
Brilliant content as always, thank you. Always enjoyable to watch. Great knowledge and fun to hear the back and forth between you and your wife.
I'm currently looking for a higher grit stone to compliment my cerax 1k and this video was quite helpful. As someone else has said it would be really interesting to hear how you think these compare to the Rika 5k.
So I read a couple of those comments in this video comment area. I will tell you that Suehiro is an amazing company and I would trust anything that they make. That's a good place to start and at a great price!
Rika 5k hasn’t got polishing agents in it like the shapton… get more of a mirror with shapton compared to a suehiro… they are very different finishes.
Did your Naniwa pro crack? Is it a hard stone?
Thanks,
Michael
I'm a relatively new, intermediate sharpener who stumbled upon your channel a couple weeks ago and have been loving it - I dig the gear reviews and the whetstone wars. Today I went on a rabbit hole to find the best value knife guard/saya/sheath, and wished there was more info on the web that compared different brands. Maybe your channel could do a gear review on these in the future?
So you’re wanting me to review knife guards versus Says versus sheath. I don’t mind doing it but I can’t purchase all of them from all of the different places they’re available. There are sheath that come in leather and different materials so they have different prices. There are also Saya That are 3B printed and summer man out of wood and summer made out of plastic and summer made out of leather. The edge protectors are definitely the cheapest and safest form without taking up a lot of bulk. I can definitely do a video on it and talk about the pros and cons but I definitely think that the edge protector will win the battle
@@rcheskin So all of my contact information is on my about area. You can do it through my normal email or message me through any one of my social media. I appreciate your input and any information you want to share. At some point maybe I’ll just do a video on that it shouldn’t take that long but we can definitely cover edge protection
Shapton 5k vs rika 5k ? Who do you think would win? Thanks for all the videos, you two truly make that best content!!
I use the Shapton Cermic stones to sharpen most of my knives. I use the 320 grit, 1000grit, and strop stroke with 5000grit, and for the money they are hard to beat. I love the ceramic because it’s super hard and will cut even the super steel on some of your newer EDC knives. For the money I don’t think you can get a better stone!!
I do like them and I do like the sound they make and they work fast. I just wish there grading of the great was more accurate. I don't think they need to ship them so much. I need to apologize for taking so long. I've had a surgery on my knee and some other things going on. We've had the court case for my car accident. We had to deal with that as well. We've also had some other major things happening personally. Deaths in the family and lots of arrangements to be made. Also, I'll let you know that I will be having another major surgery in June and will not be making it to the Blade show. I will be out of work for two weeks because I'm having all the extra skin cut off of my body. We do apologize for an interruption of videos if it were to happen. Will try to shoot some head for you guys so we can fill the space. That being said, thank you for checking out the show. Thank you for your support and your comment.
Nice battle between the 5k, can't wait to see the Suehiro Rika step up to the plate in the next one!
I don’t own that stone but I’ll have to buy it. I love Suehiro as a company. I don’t carry every single line that they have.
@@nadm Huh, I was sure you had it already. At least I saw a similar box to what mine came in on your right side in your stone flattening video. The Suehiro Rika is also a 5k stone
The Rika 5k is a very nice stone. Better in some ways than either of these. The Shapton probably produces a slightly more refined edge than the Rika, at least for me. A lot of people rate the Rika as more of like a 3.5k, it does leave a very hazy finish. That quality makes it very good for creating Kasumi finishes though. It also definitely has better feedback...
@@AnarchAngel1 Agreed, it's a very nice stone, though from my limited experience muddy stones produce a hazy finish while harder stones like the shaptons are more for mirror edges. And from my experience while the rika is definitely harder than my cerax 1k it's still quite muddy, especially compared to my shaption 8 and 12k stones. I don't have an apples to apples comparison since the rika is my only 5k but from the video and what I've seen online the shapton is probably harder and definitely glassier than the rika
@@bowow0807 A lot of things factor into the finish left by a stone. Technique, abrasive type, binder strength etc. Yes, the Rika is absolutely softer and muddier than the Shapton 5k. I own and regularly use both. The Shapton 5k is extremely hard and dense. It feels a little (maybe a lot) more "soulless" and "dead" as a consequence though. The Rika definitely has it beat in the feel and feedback department but if I were doing a BESS contest trying to get an edge as sharp as possible I think the Shapton would edge it out by just a hair. It leaves a slightly more refined edge. It feels similar to the 8k Pro but a little less "rubby" if that makes any sense. The 8k Pro produces some of the sharpest edges I can produce from a stone though, scary sharp double digit BESS numbers
Well done Greg 😁
Thank you
Exellent !
I need to apologize for taking so long. I've had a surgery on my knee and some other things going on. We've had the court case for my car accident. We had to deal with that as well. We've also had some other major things happening personally. Deaths in the family and lots of arrangements to be made. Also, I'll let you know that I will be having another major surgery in June and will not be making it to the Blade show. I will be out of work for two weeks because I'm having all the extra skin cut off of my body. We do apologize for an interruption of videos if it were to happen. Will try to shoot some head for you guys so we can fill the space. That being said, thank you for checking out the show. Thank you for your support and your comment.
How do you DISPOSE the contaminated water ?
Is the water full of metals ?
Is that water Harmful to the environment ?
Clay based paper can be inconsistent to cut through ?
All good points. We have a garbage disposal in hot water running the whole time. We just keep it running for a while to let it flow. We've done it for years and never had a problem. I wouldn't eat it.
Any advise??? Doing stroping strokes on the shapton glass stones 1k 4k or 6k I get this loud high pitch squeak and it Def sounds wrong like nails on a chalk board any insights please share. I do flatten stones before use with a diamond plate. Thanks to anyone with advise!!!! Never had this issue with king 6k or green brick of joy 2k. Thanks
It either sounds like the material that the stone is made out of for that particular stone or that you have the angle of the knife wrong and it's not matching the sharpening angle
@@nadm awesome thanks for responding and the advise. Free hand sharpening is Def an art and takes time. Thanks again for response. Cheers
@@nadm Your angle is off. Your knife is talking to you! We must listen to our steel friends when they protest what we do to them! Adjust until noise goes away!
I have both, but when I need to use a 5k, I reach out for the Naniwa Pro/Chosera 5K. When I want a coarser finish only then I use the Shapton. My principle while buying or selecting stones is the performance and quality, not the price. Going by the price criteria I would buy only Chinese stones. They're dirt cheap. Naniwa 5K is a marvellous stone, underrated by many. So is the Naniwa 2K, and it's also underrated.
Thank you for that! Thank you for taking the time to comment and I appreciate your opinion very much.
I'm not sure what makes you think one stone is any courser than the other. They are both finishing/polishing stones and quite hard ones at that, shapton being the harder, one the hardest stones in general and quite glassy. The Naniwa is a bit softer, more friable, takes a little water, and does indeed polish more akin to the 8k shapton pro, but it's hard to say one stone is course than the other. They're both polishing/finishing stones uses for deburring, cleaning up, polishing, finishing. Neither one can sharpen a damn thing other than maybe a razor or very thin shirogami knife.
The 8k Shapton pro is more like this 5k Chosera and the 12k Shapton pro is nearly identical to the 10k Chosera. Literally if you close your eyes, most people wouldn't know the difference in the way they feel and the results they produce on the 12k pro vs 10 chosera.
You forgot to say that shapton comes with a plastic box that can be used as a support, which for me is a plus. :)
You are correct. Thank you so much for your help. I apologize for leaving that out because that is a major plus.
Interesting...have you been one vs Shapton Glass ?
Not yet. I only have two Shapton glass. I have an 8000 and I think I just gave away to my son the 220 grit so then that means I only have one right now. They are different
Hey Greg, what nagura is that you are using?
It's the one provided by Suehiro. They throw them in their boxes with their stones. I have a lot of them. I don't know what grit they are but that one came in the 1000 grit box
Not really a nagura.. more of a conditioning stone
why didn’t you put them on the knife scale that you have? I was curious to see what the numbers were.
When you put them on the BESS scale then you are picking one spot on the edge. If you’re not 100% consistent then one of the spots you pick might be dollar than another spot. It’s not that I can’t do it but you just have to remember that if you’re choosing one micron of an area of one knife versus one micron of an area of another knife then you’re not exactly going to be scientifically perfect once again. And then it could be technique that fails or just a little bit of luck. It could still be another factor. I just wanted you to understand what that entails
I was just hoping to see some numbers so I can get an idea of where you were getting with just the 4000 gr. I have the same shapton stone. I Love all the videos and content. Thanks
@@brandonkramer4894 I’m actually going to be doing a series of videos where we do specifically that. We’re going to sharpen knives and show you how sharp they are at each stone and so you will eventually get your answer
Try putting less pressure and let only the abrasive of the stone work you will achieve a much better result
I agree 💯🙏
Thank you
You keep checking for a burr. Are you actually getting a burr that you can feel off the 5k? And if you don't feel a burr, how do you know to flip to the other side of the knife?
Very early on I was feeling it flipped over back-and-forth. I have changed my style. I'm only trying to get one on the earlier more coarse stones and then once I get to 2000 or above I stop doing it and I just polished the Apex. I've had better result. I need to apologize for taking so long. I've had a surgery on my knee and some other things going on. We've had the court case for my car accident. We had to deal with that as well. We've also had some other major things happening personally. Deaths in the family and lots of arrangements to be made. Also, I'll let you know that I will be having another major surgery in June and will not be making it to the Blade show. I will be out of work for two weeks because I'm having all the extra skin cut off of my body. We do apologize for an interruption of videos if it were to happen. Will try to shoot some head for you guys so we can fill the space. That being said, thank you for checking out the show. Thank you for your support and your comment.
Great video, thanks Greg. Question about the stones, Do we know what the grit is: Aluminum oxide, Silicone carbide, or other, like natural stones crushed and formed into a block. Now something to ponder. Cutting paper from top to bottom, is easier than cutting across the page, and one more thing. when you strop, you push the knife leading with the tip, and ending with the heal then draw the knife leading with the heal and going to the tip. The micro grind on the knife can make a difference, If the knife is sharpened from tip to heal in both directions, it will cut paper better on a draw-stroke, if sharpened the other way, it will cut paper better if one lead with the tip, and runs the knife tip to heal through the page. (some tips from an old geezer, I'm the guy with an apple and a knife who sits on the front porch)
First of all, I appreciate the comment. Second of all, I'll have to look into that to see if there's any truth with that. I have given a lot of thought to the scratch pattern and was wondering how much it would affect cutting. I don't think it's so much going to affect the cutting on the Apex. More on the knife feel when you drag it through food. I do try to find out if certain stones are aluminum oxide or silicone oxide and so on. And all of that information is readily available and I wish it was. I usually switch up the pattern on both sides just to go different directions. I normally will do X amount of strokes on each side in the same direction for that side. But then later on I try to do something in the other direction just a drag across the opposite way. I know the stone is done the sharpening and remove the metal on the Apex. The only goal is to remove the burr. I normally go for a very clean edge. Teeth tend fall out. Knife grinders book is a great read and I try to do everything the way I learned from the book. It has done me well. We did an entire series on strapping and got great results. I also really like the kangaroo tail because it's crosshairs do a good job of removing the burr. Everything is important. Depending on the knife, if it's a 61 hardness and above and you can actually even say at 60 if you want to, you should strop on the same angle that you sharpened but if it's below that then you should increase the angle slightly. You can increase it from .4° to 2° depending on the steel. They're all listed in their book. I usually try to do a slightly higher degree when using softer steel. Then I do it in different angles and different directions and I usually do two different stropping materials. I'll do kangaroo tail or leather and then I will finish on a leather or nano cloth that has diamond emulsion. There are plenty of people that do not stop at all. A lot of the Japanese natural stone users would like me to not do it at all and just do it on the stone. I have shown great success with a knife without ever putting it on leather. I like the bottle to be about what can get done on the stones without any help. I think the help might improve the blade too much and it'll hinder us finding out the true winner. I'm never gonna mind a comment from some old guy sitting on his porch whittling an apple! God bless you
Both are aluminum oxide with magnesia binder
@@ricomock2 Thank you for that!
@@ricomock2 Many Thanks.
@@ricomock2 Both use Alumina abrasive like essentially all water stones, but only the chosera uses what Naniwa call magnesia. The Shapton Pro does not say anything about this, idk why gritomatic makes such a claim but you should always be skeptical of everything in knife world and knife people are not known for being very fact based at all.
Great comparison. I don't know how long it would take to wear through a 15mm 5k stone, but probably a very long time.
I do edge trailing strokes on my Shapton 1k and 2k and finish with just stropping strokes on the 5k so my 5k stone doesn't get a lot of play.
I do agree that the Shapton stones seem to be graded a little differently than others
You need a conversion table. Shapton doesn't follow JIS pattern. The 5K is an actual 4K JIS.
I agree with the other gentleman's comments that maybe we should come out with some type of conversion table because they are definitely always more course than they tell you.
I concur! It's a little upsetting to see that they don't grade them properly.
@@nadm Not sure if youtube will delete the outside link but I just posted the conversion table a friend gave me.
@@nadm This grit issue is a bit more complicated than just a mislable. Grit is defined by number of particles on a area of stone. Shapton and Naniwa 5K have same number of particles by area but Shapton uses larger abrasives and less bonding material.
Larger abrasives cut faster but coarser finish.
Wife is very supportive and patient
I agree very much. It took a long time to get this way, and we still don't agree on everything but we do have each other's back. I appreciate you very much.
Isn’t the Naniwa 5k like 120? Where was it 80? I would love to pick one up for that price!
You’re absolutely right. I think it was an Amazon find. I can’t find it now. I had looked it up just before the show. But now that I’m looking for it I can’t find it anything cheaper than $120-$150. So you’re absolutely right which is another reason why Shapton wins
@@nadm Can you make a video of the Naniwa PRO 5k/or Chosera 5k vs a Shapton 16k since it's the closest in price range? I rather see them compared to the same Price range then the grit ratings that never match up right. Or even the 12k Shapton would be cool.
The premium for the Naniwas seem crazy people that make videos seem to love them. I have a 5k Naniwa Gouken Kagayaki, I got it for a steal for $10 one day on amazon. I was going to get it for $20 and it dropped the next day when I saw it didnt it ship yet. Canceled the original order, and rebought it for $10 from some random seller giving it out almost free. The stone is a rebadge Super Stone from what I read, which goes for almost $100 right now. The stone is great at polishing. But the loadup is crazy, but using a rust eraser cleans the build ups.
The 1k of that series I saw in the past was only $18 but I didn't bite the bullet on getting it. From what I read all Super Stones have a tendency to load up a lot.
@@DTrizzy I have some old super stones and I like them very much. They’re soaking stones. So I currently have a lot of stove purchased and I don’t know that I’ll be buying any anytime soon because we have other financial needs right now. I will look into what you said but some of these higher grit stones are very expensive. I think the highest ones I have are 9K and 10 K and possibly a 12 K. But that would be one of each I don’t know that I have two of any of those. Do you want to do stuff on the high end in the future. I want to do stuff on the more expensive and some with the highest grit so we will get to it one day.
@@nadm Shapton makes a 16k glass stone and a 30k glass and PRO. but yeah the prices are nutty. You got a steal for your 5k Naniwa PRO compared to the current 5k Chosera price on Amazon.
Seems like the Shapton will always out perform per-dollar what you pay for them. I just get the impression from videos that they are harder stones with less feed back/fun then some softer stone brands. I was thinking of getting the lower grit Stanton's to get some of the quick work done.
But collecting water/whetstones seems like a dangerous hobby. Wish I had unlimited cash and room for every toy I like :).
Maybe you can save money on stones and make some videos with some MIC cheapos. Aliexpress has some Cheap Resin Diamond stones, some 3k Ruby Oilstone, and other high grit natural stones. I got the 1k Resin Diamond stone for like under 40 shipped. All the grits up to 12k are the same price oddly. I didn't like it at first, but it's growing on me...
Naniwa sells 15 mm version that comes in a case like the Shapton Pro exactly. You can get one for about $45 directly from Japan via Amazon Japan without any middle man or third party. Same for the 3k. And the 10k which is like $275 for 30 mm version, you can get 15 mm for about $60. The more you know. Resellers for all Japanese products in the North America add crazy mark ups to everything. In Japan they don't have a culture of price gouging. Everything is very fairly priced in Japan, very few things other than luxury goods are sold with high margins in Japan.
I sharpen and in with the wife. They sounded the same on paper. No need to shut her opinion down because she doesn't sharpen. Also, we all saw the shapton win on the paper towel. No tie. Good video though
I have found that sometimes the paper towel can be a good thing or a bad thing. It seems like you need a little bit more teeth to cut the paper towel. So it depends on the edge you're looking for. I mean, I'm on your side. I just I've done this enough now to know. I need to apologize for taking so long. I've had a surgery on my knee and some other things going on. We've had the court case for my car accident. We had to deal with that as well. We've also had some other major things happening personally. Deaths in the family and lots of arrangements to be made. Also, I'll let you know that I will be having another major surgery in June and will not be making it to the Blade show. I will be out of work for two weeks because I'm having all the extra skin cut off of my body. We do apologize for an interruption of videos if it were to happen. Will try to shoot some head for you guys so we can fill the space. That being said, thank you for checking out the show. Thank you for your support and your comment.
AlwaysSharper rate the shapton 5k as a 4k stone while chosera 5k is a 7k stone. And still the chosera cut as fast as the shapton. But shapton is overall the best value for the money and i like my edge to have a bit of bite. Chosera is okay if you want a near mirror polish edge.
Thank you 🙏
Yeah but always sharper has terrible knives and weird technique. His best knife is a piece of crap yaxel and half the time he uses a 10 dollar knife
@@jarrodhales3666 I agree. I believe Naniwa is great for a sharpening and polishing. They’re just the most reputable company they’ve been around for so long. They get it done.
@@jarrodhales3666 So? His technique seems to work just fine. There are lots of different techniques and styles of sharpening with great results. I learned it the Japanese way but a friend of mine does it in a completely different way his grandfather taught him and how it's been done in Germany for a long time. He gets great edges. And what does the type of steel have to do with the grit rating you get from two different stones?
@@jarrodhales3666 He has good technique. What exactly is wrong with it? I've watched him closely and his technique is very consistent and smooth. Looks like he produces nice edges as well
they say youre not supposed to use nagura on shapton ceramic stones cuz it makes it bad
I will have to ask someone specifically about that. I know someone who was one of the founding people who made that. I'd like to get his answer. I don't know when I'll get back to you. If you don't hear from me in a week then please comment.
To me it look you contaminated the stone with the cleaning stone. You can see how the sound is changing after you use the cleaning stone.
Not at all! The cleaning Stone was never used on the first stone. It was used for the first time and only time on the Shapton. It was put in the water only after it was taking the load off. It was never used. The water was clean before I used it so there was no load from any other stone on it even if I had used it a second time. The cleaning stone is a lower grit than it so it would've removed any load that would've come with the stone even if I had done any of that in the first place which I did not! I appreciate your input and your observations but I went back and rewatch the video and there was no issue
@@nadm I think you misunderstood me. :) The cleaning stone will release particles, you can't prevent that. If it is a new cleaning stone it will release more particles. After I clean my stone with a cleaning stone I rinse the sharpening stone under running water to make sure that particles from the cleaning stone are not on my sharpening stone. But that is only my opinion. :)
I have both shapton and naniwa 5000 and when I sharpen on them the feedback si like sharpening on glass. By the way shapton is by far my favorite stones. Very close to them are the suehiro debado s. :)
@@DanielWorkshop I really do like the Suehiro product
@@DanielWorkshop I love Suehiro!
@@DanielWorkshop You guys should go to Japan together and make some Collab videos!
I just bought the shapton 5000 and the shapton 10,000 Aloha Greg
You have spent some money. I have them both as well. We're gonna get into that
@@nadm sounds good 🤙
Shaptons , because of the non-uniform nature of their grit compared to other stones, do cut faster but leave deep scratches in the blade edge that can't be polished out. Microscopic views confirm this.
Yes indeed! I agree!
More polish is not always better and the difference is very small as expected from a 4K to 5K stone difference.
For a 5K that is actual 4K stone Shapton cuts like a beast.
I also go for the Shapton on this one.
Yes sir!
Now to finalize would be nice a Shapton 5000 vs Suehiro Rika 5000.
Like I said, in the other comments, I have to get that stone before I can do it.
Put the winner up against the Suehiro Rika 5k greg😁👊🔪🔪🔪
You’re not the only one asking me to do that so I’ll have to buy the stone. It’s gonna be a while before I can do it because we have money spent another places but I’m hearing you guys
@@nadm you will love the Rika. It impresses me. Best 5k stone imo.😊👍🔪🔪🔪 great stone wars.👏👏👏👏👏
@@jasonedwardledburynewzeala9897 Thanks for showing up and your support and your comments!
@@nadm Hey! Thankyou Thankyou for your channel and great Content brother. Thanks to your Mrs aswell. You guys are a good Team. 🔪🔪🔪👏👏👏👏😊👍
@@jasonedwardledburynewzeala9897 thank you! I'm very fortunate every day that she doesn't roll over and stab me, lol!. I love her!
I would the shapton 5k compare to the chosera 3k they have kind of a similar finish
No they do not. You do get a little bit more polished with the 5K but it's not enough to be significant. It is noticeable if you look hard enough
@@nadm Thank you for calling it out truthfully. So many people just repeat whatever they hear the next guy say and don't actually own nor have ever used any of this stuff at all. It gets old.
Ah ... for a moment I thought it was the Naniwa Superstone 5K. Wondered why it was grey, the superstone is white, basically. I have a SS 5K, and in my very limited experience, it's good for HRC under 60, but loads up a bit. Pretty hard stone, not soft, very nice consistency of scratch marks.
I found what I was doing wrong, btw: after getting some knives around 100 Bess, I just got lazy, and expected all knives to know "I'm good!" and that they should sharpen up. They didn't comply, so I'm back to paying attention to what I'm doing, and everything is fine now.
That is so funny because that has happened to me. Do you think you’re just a pro and you don’t have to check yourself. Sometimes I’ve had to go back to the drawing board. Good stuff. I’m glad you’re paying attention. Thanks for coming as always. We appreciate you being here
@@nadm Another member of the drawing board club. It came a little bit too quickly and easily and I got lazy just like Dave said. I went back to zero and that's when I stumbled upon you Greg! I slowed down and focused on my angle, problem solved. I want to see chocera vs. shapton glass and shapton pro versus Naniwa super stone!
@@paulfrontiero6971 I don’t have the Shopting glass. I think I have just the HK shapting glass but I don’t own the other ones
HRC has next to nothing to do with abrasive resistance. The amount of straight up BS that gets repeated like facts in knife bro world is intense. A "shirogami" steel at 65 rc will be much much MUCH easier to sharpen than just about any basic stainless steels at 56, like say a generic German knife which uses German 4116 steel, usually 56-58 rc. I feel like if you've ever actually put a knife to a stone, this would be obvious. The super stones are softer stones in that they have that hard rubber type feeling to them. Unlike Chosera they are splash and go for real, But they are specialty stones. They're generally used for finishing and polishing, not for sharpening knives. They are probably the best straight razor stones on the market at any price. and I hate to tell you this, but they work even very hard high alloy steels.
HRC means nothing about abrasion resistance or sharpening buddy. I'm sorry that charlatans like Burrfection misinformed you. A 65 rc shirogami still is easier to sharpen than a 55 rc something like ZDP for example, or basically any 10v class steel in terms of abrasion. That's because hardness is not the same thing as abrasion resistance aka machinability, which tells you how hard/easy a steel will be grind/sharpen, also how quickly it dulls. Carbide content and type determines this orders of magnitude more than hardness. The Super Stones are a line of finishing/polishing stones and they work just fine on all sorts of low alloy and high carbide steels at all kinds of hardness, the hardness doesn't really matter. You can put a mirror polish on 66 rc ZDP with a super stone going from a 600 grit in a few minutes. They are excellent, powerful yet gentle sharpeners which have extremely good performance in my tests.
I don't even think naniwa even wins on performance alone. Shapton got 1 good cut on the blueberry but on its own blueberry naniwa didn't even get a cut. If you slow it down when you do the naniwa cut on the shapton blueberry you were hitting the inside of the blueberry not the actual flesh that is hard.
You are clearly biased towards the more expensive stone throughout testing despite result
I don't understand why you said that. I don't care if it's more expensive or not I just care about the results. We try to break it down to the cost versus the result. I've had many a favorite going in and been thrown the other way because one just beat the other. I really don't care. The Shapton company I have a problem with because they are grit rating is wrong. Naniwa was the first one that ever used but they crack and they're a little harder than I would like them to be. The Shapton company makes their stones a little bit thinner, so I wish there was more stone for the dollar. It's very aggressive sounding and it feels good. I didn't really have anybody in mind for the winner of this. I'm sorry you took it that way, but I'm not biased. All I care about is the end results and sharing with you what we find. I don't get any money from either company. All of the stones were paid for it out of my own pocket.
80 $ ÷ 4 = 20$ shapton 1.5 cm thickness with same dimension as naniwa cost 58.8 $ ok. But Naniwa brand give 2 cm thickness for 80 $. that means both price are almost same.😂😂😂
But what we are missing here is the question if they are worn down the same. I heard that the shapton is that hard, that you might give it to your kids... Is the Naniwa the same?🤔
I hear you I'm not sure if that equates properly. I'll have to figure it out. They do not wear at the same rate.
You can't recommend both stones, one feels like shit when sharpening and the other gets cracks and is too expensive ^^
There are better stones on the market like naniwa pro 3k or Arashiyama 6/8k, suehiro debado md-400.
The point of the show was to battle these two against each other. I'm not telling you want to buy. I'm saying that between the two of these this is the one that I would recommend. I need to apologize for taking so long. I've had a surgery on my knee and some other things going on. We've had the court case for my car accident. We had to deal with that as well. We've also had some other major things happening personally. Deaths in the family and lots of arrangements to be made. Also, I'll let you know that I will be having another major surgery in June and will not be making it to the Blade show. I will be out of work for two weeks because I'm having all the extra skin cut off of my body. We do apologize for an interruption of videos if it were to happen. Will try to shoot some head for you guys so we can fill the space. That being said, thank you for checking out the show. Thank you for your support and your comment.
Looks late haha
Thank you for your support, I'm not exactly sure what your comment means.
@@nadm like the time of day. Just noting that your house is dark lmao
@@jojojaykay yes! It was very late because we shot lots of episodes together but at the same time we were trying some new lighting and it didn’t work out right because they were too many shadows. We’re still trying to get it right. My wife keeps on screwing different lights to try to change things. When we edit there’s a Lotta yellow and the skin can look pink. So we’re trying to get a little better and that concept didn’t work. Again, thanks for being patient with us.
I feel the same about Shapton. I swear there 1k is like a Chosera 600grit same scratch pattern too. People seem to dislike the 5000grit Chosera but if they get the 10,000 then they will start to like it. It is the perfect set up stone for it.
I wish everybody would get in line. Drives me insane.
When you say people, you mean Burrfection. Clearly. The Shapton pro 1k is equivalent to about the 800 Chosera. Those are both sharpening stones. The 600 Chosera is a course stone and there is no shapton pro equivalent. The 320 is more like the 400. The 5000 chosera, like the 5000 shapton pro are finisher stones, they are polishers, however the 5k chosera is more similar to the 8k Shapton pro.
@Jeff Hicks what the hell is buttfection?shapton pro 1000 is more like a chosera 600grit. Scratch pattern is almost identical. Sharpening stones are anything under 3000grit.
@Never a Dull Moment lol what do you mean bud. I will say this about chosera 5k. When i first got it i didnt care for it that much other than being a set up stone. After about 7months that stone changed big time. Almost like it needed broken in. Since i have liked it as much if not better than the chosera 3k. The feel of it and feedback changed that much its unreal. If ya dont believe me i will send it to you to try. Arent these comparisons supposed to be about performance? This one was confusing
@getulioafiacoes maybe I can help you