These vids are great, showing a direct side by side field work of a lot of the brands is something that makes it really easy for an AM like me to understand the slight nuance differences between all the discs.
these vids are designed to get you to buy discs from infinite. you can tell they are pushing these newer brands they have partnerships with. It is all part of Erics contract. Drew had to do same thing last year, but he half-azzed the vids.
I’m so happy to see RPM getting some screen time. I bag a Piwakawaka in the Cosmic plastic and I didn’t understand how good it could be until I started throwing it more on the course instead of for field work. I’m still a pretty new player and learning the intricacies of how my discs fly but I’m starting to reach for it more often than my Buzzz
This series has been fantastic. Idk if I’ve seen any videos that do such a good job describing, comparing, and connecting different brands discs to each other. Being able to immediately see the flight differences is unmatched as well. Great, great job.
So glad you’re digging the Reactor. I don’t feel like they wear in much, but the plastics do influence the flight with your eclipse being the most stable. Next round, you’ll dig their 6.5s as an extension of that same Reactor feel.
Eric, just wanted to say that you seem to be one of the coolest, nicest & most well-liked people on tour. Have an incredible '22. Oh, and whale sacs are the best!
Enjoying this series so much. You really break down each disc the way a new player needs it. Helps me avoid discs I don’t think I’d wanna throw and points out the discs that may be good ones for me. Thanks Eric. All the best.
The Squall was my first mid and I've never been able to find something else to replace it. Because it's so fast, I know I can trust it in wind. I also love that I can get a lot of stability from it when i throw it soft. It's very versatile.
Loving this series. The one thing I would love added would be up close side profile pics of the disc when you're explaining it's bead or lack of. As well as looking at that ancient technology with the curved rim🤣 Side note: I haven't finished the vid but I've got my fingers crossed that you'll be testing a Badger from Legacy. I have the Patrick Brown signature version of it and it is by far the beefiest disc I've ever thrown. I laughed almost as soon as it left my hand. I haven't thrown a Tilt but it's what I imagine a Tilt feels like in a midrange. The mold even looks similar. Love all you do for disc golf!
I just knew you'd love the reactor! Such an insanely good forehand disc, it really changed my game and my pair of reactors offer several of my favorite and most trusted shots!
Was happy to see you get some RPM into the mix. I like how transparent you are in these with how you feel about them while still not bad mouthing anybody. It’s clear you have some bias towards stuff you’ve thrown and liked in the past but really looked like Kotuku surprised you in a good way
Great content, keep up the in-depth reviews! Not everyone can get this variety of material to test ourselves, and you do a great job of relaying the details of each disc. LOVE THAT JERSEY!!!! TSA has some fantastic stuff!!
Eric I love your Choices for Midranges and Love your unique style of throwing and I would love to get a chance to learn and play along side you in either a tournament or just for playing a round or two, I hope your day goes well, Thank you for giving such a fun review on these discs
This is super cool. Really have been enjoying everything you've put together this off-season. Super informative while entertaining. I'm already looking forward to the next installment of "Is That Good"!!!
Absolutely loving this series, and it's great seeing smaller companies get a professional throwing and testing their discs. I assume fairways are coming, and I'd always suggest that you try your hand at the RPM PekaPeka. Super interesting disc, and even more interesting when you throw it at about the power of a midrange long approach. Keep up the great content.
I bag the reactor and the piwakawaka, I’m loving the reactor, for me it’s great for both backhand and forehand, mine is a little seasoned so it hyzerflips to flat when I throw it with a little bit of hyzer, the piwakawaka is great too, It’s more of a utility disc for me though. Looking forward to seeing you on tour this year!!!
In response to "I don't think Innova really has one like that" at 21:20, they actually have the original one, and it's the Cobra, and the only reason people think of the Cobra as an understable disc rather than a neutral flyer is because for some reason they only make it in DX plastic nowadays. If you've ever thrown one in premium plastic (not a King Cobra or Vcobra etc) then you know how similar the flight is to a Buzzz, and the Cobra came first. It's a shame Innova doesn't produce it in champion, Gstar, or star
I picked up a Lat64 Claymore because you talked them up so much, and I have to say that I'm REALLY loving it! It's rapidly becoming one of my favourite and most reliable discs. Thanks again for the recommendation!
Love seeing you try out some RPM! Overe here in Australia and New Zealand were close to sea level so beefy discs are a bit less beefy around here! Itd be great to see you throw some fourth circle if you can get your hands on them!
I was wondering why there were no kasta discs here. Fingers crossed on the kaxe and kaxe z showing up in the fairway vid; they are faster than the typical mid.
Low key surprised you’re not doubling down on the Mint Royal Bobcat! Could easily bag 3-4 of them and have all bases covered. Maybe one in a premium plastic and 2-3 in Royal!
The interesting thing with the paradox is it doesn't get to a roller angle when it flips, it rides right and just stays riding right forever eith no fade
What type plastic was that Apollo. May have to try that one. Kaxe and Justice do all my midrange work. I have a harp but that’s a putter to me mid to some tho.
They brought out a 2nd type of plastic for the Apollo but I haven't had a chance to check it out yet. Also keep an eye on Alfa discs social media as they have a 2nd disc coming out soon.
Yes indeed. Funny how he threw the black stamp version of the Code X but the caption had the multicoloured version. Their numbers are quite different but nobody has yet told me what's going on with them 🤷🏻♂️
Came here for this comment! Recently replaced all of my midranges for kaxe, kaxe-z, and svea. They kaxe and kaxe-z complement each other so well it’s hard to imagine using anything else. The kaxe in particular is unbelievably money.
Cool vid. Figured you would need something beef like a Verdict with your arm speed and/or as a wind fighter. Or are you going with a fairway past x distance?
I recommend trying The Eye by Storm, which is a dead-straight mid, and The Duke by Disc Golf UK, which is overstable. Both are speed-6, but fly like mids. Off-brands, but both made my bag.
I picked up a Duke a few months ago from the DGUK stall at a tournament. The guy on the stall mentioned some of their sponsored players really rated it for forehands (not one of my strengths). I played a few holes during the midday break and on my first fh with it I had a lovely shaped throw in around a blocking tree. I repeated almost the same throw in with it the following week so no plans on kicking it out of my bag any time soon.
My lineup was the jawbreaker buzz, latitude 64 claymore, and dynamic emac truth. Then I threw the Hex and it replaced my claymore. I do still have the claymore and its a great disc! I really want to try the pathfinder, buzz ss, mustang, and piwakawaka!
Started throwing the Mustang about 6 months ago I think. I was throwing the Buzzz SS prior to that, very similar flights. Could interchange them at any point, but the Mustang is a disc you don’t see so why not be different. Now I’m bagging Meteor, Mustang, and Verdict.
So, as with the last video, what sort of distance are you throwing the discs here when checking their flight? When we mortals are trying discs like putter/mid/approach we crank them to hard... Guessing approx 200-250' this time? (Except some throws with eg. the Claymore one BH, that was sick and left me wanting... Got a Fuse and a Buzz for some US shoots so not gonna get enticed!)
Oops, thats a bit further than I get my mids... hah. All dg videos are so deceptive in their depth and field of view! Looking forward to all the upcoming BtB-videos ;)
I launched the M4 this past weekend a few times and was definitely impressed with that disc. I might have to buy one and see how it works for me on the course.
Fairly new disc golfer. Really helpful to see a great player throwing so many different discs at one time. Curious whether the Compass has ever been a thought for you or if just too similar to the Claymore? Thanks for the vid!
for myself the glow reactor is my go to midrange i can rip it so hard on forehand with kinda bad release and wont go anywhere i have lost already 3 but always hunt new to bag it.
I haven’t watched yet but wanted to say I am unreasonably excited about this video. Thanks for putting these out. I may be an outlier but I’m thinking how is he going to cover this many discs in 32 min… let’s find out!
Why no roc or roc3 testing. The color glow dx tour series roc3 are awesome they beat in to the understable slot and a champion one will have that whole stable shape the entire way.
You use Innova discs as references a fair amount. Any particular reason that you didn't throw any? Super cool video. Might have to check that Piwakawaka, if for no other reason than getting to say its name.
Chariot has never felt right or released out of my hand clean. Anubis though, money! Also I bag a verdict, hex and Paradox. I like shallow flat mids, used to love/throw the mako3 and emac truth as well. Feel in the hand is so important for a mid, a lot like a putter
Great vid! One thing that is confusing to me in many disc golf related videos: A disc is thrown with a hyzer angle and it flips to flat and flies straight, so the thrower says it's a straight disc. Shouldn't the comment be that it's an understable or slightly understable disc? If you throw the same disc on a flat release then it'll turn to the right. Any thoughts?
I'd just like to say first thanks for making a great video Eric and others! With that said i'd just like to say that as a new player the Comet by Discraft is one of my favorite disc because I don't have a forehand. With a very slight Anhyzer it does what I would need a forehand to do. Anyways, thanks again Eric for taking the time.
@@subspaceanomaly I also have a Mako3 in my bag. It was one of the first disc I bought outside of my starter pack. It is a great disc that I use for more distance straight shots.
If you’re going with a Buzzz you’re going to need a pro-D one and beat it in to get what everyone likes out of them. The Buzzz SS throws more like a beat in Buzzz right out of the box!
These vids are great, showing a direct side by side field work of a lot of the brands is something that makes it really easy for an AM like me to understand the slight nuance differences between all the discs.
these vids are designed to get you to buy discs from infinite. you can tell they are pushing these newer brands they have partnerships with. It is all part of Erics contract. Drew had to do same thing last year, but he half-azzed the vids.
@@brian6speed OH NO! An athlete seeks sponsorship dollars to continue doing what he loves because he’s dedicated his life to it…the audacity!
I’m so happy to see RPM getting some screen time. I bag a Piwakawaka in the Cosmic plastic and I didn’t understand how good it could be until I started throwing it more on the course instead of for field work. I’m still a pretty new player and learning the intricacies of how my discs fly but I’m starting to reach for it more often than my Buzzz
Love this series, in theory, but it's gonna be dangerous for my wallet.
My wife sees all of the discs I own and when I get a new one to try out I get "that look" from her. 😆
Slowly (very quickly) has become my favorite disc golf related youtube content
Super cool to see some RPM! Was surprised at the absence of a Kaxe though.
It feels like a fairway in the hand so it might be in the fairway video.
Seeing that Eric is almost out of breath by the end of the video makes me feel better about myself huffing and puffing during field work.
This series has been fantastic. Idk if I’ve seen any videos that do such a good job describing, comparing, and connecting different brands discs to each other. Being able to immediately see the flight differences is unmatched as well. Great, great job.
"Even Brian Earheart makes this disc look super good."
Shots fired!
is it the person or the plastic? the eternal question
So glad you’re digging the Reactor. I don’t feel like they wear in much, but the plastics do influence the flight with your eclipse being the most stable. Next round, you’ll dig their 6.5s as an extension of that same Reactor feel.
Eric, just wanted to say that you seem to be one of the coolest, nicest & most well-liked people on tour. Have an incredible '22. Oh, and whale sacs are the best!
Love to see RPM getting their name out on the international scene!
Enjoying this series so much. You really break down each disc the way a new player needs it. Helps me avoid discs I don’t think I’d wanna throw and points out the discs that may be good ones for me. Thanks Eric. All the best.
The Squall was my first mid and I've never been able to find something else to replace it. Because it's so fast, I know I can trust it in wind. I also love that I can get a lot of stability from it when i throw it soft. It's very versatile.
Try a Zombie
Loving this series. The one thing I would love added would be up close side profile pics of the disc when you're explaining it's bead or lack of. As well as looking at that ancient technology with the curved rim🤣
Side note: I haven't finished the vid but I've got my fingers crossed that you'll be testing a Badger from Legacy. I have the Patrick Brown signature version of it and it is by far the beefiest disc I've ever thrown. I laughed almost as soon as it left my hand. I haven't thrown a Tilt but it's what I imagine a Tilt feels like in a midrange. The mold even looks similar. Love all you do for disc golf!
I just knew you'd love the reactor! Such an insanely good forehand disc, it really changed my game and my pair of reactors offer several of my favorite and most trusted shots!
The Hex and the M4 are my go to's! Glad to see them high up on the list.
Was happy to see you get some RPM into the mix. I like how transparent you are in these with how you feel about them while still not bad mouthing anybody. It’s clear you have some bias towards stuff you’ve thrown and liked in the past but really looked like Kotuku surprised you in a good way
Great content, keep up the in-depth reviews! Not everyone can get this variety of material to test ourselves, and you do a great job of relaying the details of each disc.
LOVE THAT JERSEY!!!! TSA has some fantastic stuff!!
Agreed 👍 their merch/logos are just as cool as their discs!
Eric I love your Choices for Midranges and Love your unique style of throwing and I would love to get a chance to learn and play along side you in either a tournament or just for playing a round or two, I hope your day goes well, Thank you for giving such a fun review on these discs
I loved that color on the Discmania MD3.. I want to try the new ones but I’m loving my old Innova run Md3 in my bag
They are money dude!
This is super cool. Really have been enjoying everything you've put together this off-season. Super informative while entertaining. I'm already looking forward to the next installment of "Is That Good"!!!
Anyone else catch the guy riding the moped with no hands at 14:10? What a boss
Absolutely loving this series, and it's great seeing smaller companies get a professional throwing and testing their discs. I assume fairways are coming, and I'd always suggest that you try your hand at the RPM PekaPeka. Super interesting disc, and even more interesting when you throw it at about the power of a midrange long approach. Keep up the great content.
I bag the reactor and the piwakawaka, I’m loving the reactor, for me it’s great for both backhand and forehand, mine is a little seasoned so it hyzerflips to flat when I throw it with a little bit of hyzer, the piwakawaka is great too, It’s more of a utility disc for me though. Looking forward to seeing you on tour this year!!!
Guy riding the scooter without hands at 14:05 stole the show.
In response to "I don't think Innova really has one like that" at 21:20, they actually have the original one, and it's the Cobra, and the only reason people think of the Cobra as an understable disc rather than a neutral flyer is because for some reason they only make it in DX plastic nowadays. If you've ever thrown one in premium plastic (not a King Cobra or Vcobra etc) then you know how similar the flight is to a Buzzz, and the Cobra came first. It's a shame Innova doesn't produce it in champion, Gstar, or star
Chariot is the OG MD3 mold. I've used calipers on both my Innova-MD3 and Chariot and the measurements are the same. Great mold!
Low key roasts Brian Earhart @15:44. Love the video!
No Rocs? I guess they land in the "ancient technology" section lol. Still like em though
I picked up a Lat64 Claymore because you talked them up so much, and I have to say that I'm REALLY loving it! It's rapidly becoming one of my favourite and most reliable discs. Thanks again for the recommendation!
The disc: THOUGHT SPACE
The t-shirt: THOUGH SPACE
Is it a misprint, another company/slogan or just Eric messing with us.
You know he'd do that. 😁👍
Love seeing you try out some RPM! Overe here in Australia and New Zealand were close to sea level so beefy discs are a bit less beefy around here! Itd be great to see you throw some fourth circle if you can get your hands on them!
I liked this vid having a camera guy with some good input. What a great guy!
I love the reactor! Bag it in fission and neutron. Neutron plastic more on the stable side, fission more straight with less stable finish!
The pathfinder is so underrated, i am glad you are shining some light on it. Smooth as butter and will run dead straight. Aced last week with mine.
Definitely going to have to check out that Pathfinder! Currently bag the esp Buzz, tour series Mako3, origio Warship, Axiom Pyro,& moonshine Anvil.
Finally someone that knows how good the PYRO is I use the esp meteor with it but would probably use the mako3 instead if I had one
@@JoshJackson13 if you try the Mako3 go tour series (IMO) finishes on a flatter/less hyzer and has more capability to flex
You’d love the new MD.. holds ANY line you put it on with and without power. Love it. So much.
Love the Hex and EMac Truth. Not trying the Kastaplast Kaxe or Svea?
I was wondering why there were no kasta discs here. Fingers crossed on the kaxe and kaxe z showing up in the fairway vid; they are faster than the typical mid.
Dude is going to start the season with max 5 speed discs at the pace these are coming out :)
These are all recorded weeks ago, just trying to work with the RUclips algorithm and not put out too much all at once.
Axiom Pyro for OS mid slot 🤤🤤
Low key surprised you’re not doubling down on the Mint Royal Bobcat! Could easily bag 3-4 of them and have all bases covered. Maybe one in a premium plastic and 2-3 in Royal!
Kastaplast?
The interesting thing with the paradox is it doesn't get to a roller angle when it flips, it rides right and just stays riding right forever eith no fade
Replace your justice with the PYRO. And you also should try a esp meteor
Pyro FTW
What type plastic was that Apollo. May have to try that one. Kaxe and Justice do all my midrange work. I have a harp but that’s a putter to me mid to some tho.
It was a Champion/Lucid/Crystal/C-Blend style plastic.
They brought out a 2nd type of plastic for the Apollo but I haven't had a chance to check it out yet. Also keep an eye on Alfa discs social media as they have a 2nd disc coming out soon.
Launch Code & Code X representing for Made in the UK discs!
Yes indeed. Funny how he threw the black stamp version of the Code X but the caption had the multicoloured version. Their numbers are quite different but nobody has yet told me what's going on with them 🤷🏻♂️
It’s honestly a travesty that you didn’t try a Kaxe or Kaxe Z in K3 plastic
Came here for this comment! Recently replaced all of my midranges for kaxe, kaxe-z, and svea. They kaxe and kaxe-z complement each other so well it’s hard to imagine using anything else. The kaxe in particular is unbelievably money.
I love my mint mustang and bobcat. One straight to slightly flippy, the bobcat is like a zone to me
Such good videos! That eclipse reactor is soo good, can't wait to see you play this season!
"even Brian Earhart" 😅❤️
This is the best comparison video for mids. Thank you.
When are we going to see some E.O. Signature Pathfinders drop? I love that disc and would be happy to support you as well.
No Innova discs? Love the comparisons though.
Rocs have never been my jam and Makos didn’t win me over either.
Cool vid. Figured you would need something beef like a Verdict with your arm speed and/or as a wind fighter. Or are you going with a fairway past x distance?
I recommend trying The Eye by Storm, which is a dead-straight mid, and The Duke by Disc Golf UK, which is overstable. Both are speed-6, but fly like mids. Off-brands, but both made my bag.
I picked up a Duke a few months ago from the DGUK stall at a tournament. The guy on the stall mentioned some of their sponsored players really rated it for forehands (not one of my strengths). I played a few holes during the midday break and on my first fh with it I had a lovely shaped throw in around a blocking tree. I repeated almost the same throw in with it the following week so no plans on kicking it out of my bag any time soon.
My lineup was the jawbreaker buzz, latitude 64 claymore, and dynamic emac truth. Then I threw the Hex and it replaced my claymore. I do still have the claymore and its a great disc! I really want to try the pathfinder, buzz ss, mustang, and piwakawaka!
Started throwing the Mustang about 6 months ago I think. I was throwing the Buzzz SS prior to that, very similar flights. Could interchange them at any point, but the Mustang is a disc you don’t see so why not be different. Now I’m bagging Meteor, Mustang, and Verdict.
You are the Billy Maze of disc golf
Great to see RPM in there! Can't wait to see some of the drivers
Whats the difference between a micro bead and a lip?
So, as with the last video, what sort of distance are you throwing the discs here when checking their flight? When we mortals are trying discs like putter/mid/approach we crank them to hard... Guessing approx 200-250' this time? (Except some throws with eg. the Claymore one BH, that was sick and left me wanting... Got a Fuse and a Buzz for some US shoots so not gonna get enticed!)
275-325 a couple may have stretched to 350. I can push the Pathfinder out 400, but it’s not necessary.
Oops, thats a bit further than I get my mids... hah. All dg videos are so deceptive in their depth and field of view! Looking forward to all the upcoming BtB-videos ;)
I launched the M4 this past weekend a few times and was definitely impressed with that disc. I might have to buy one and see how it works for me on the course.
If you ever liked the Emac Truths you should try the Latitude Royal Trust. Extremely similar and awesome.
Bro was like, “ya that’s a frozen rope. Unfortunately not making the bag”
Keeping it real like Cool Daddy Slick Breeze
Give the Squall a chance, it's a birdie machine!
Fairly new disc golfer. Really helpful to see a great player throwing so many different discs at one time. Curious whether the Compass has ever been a thought for you or if just too similar to the Claymore? Thanks for the vid!
for myself the glow reactor is my go to midrange i can rip it so hard on forehand with kinda bad release and wont go anywhere i have lost already 3 but always hunt new to bag it.
You didnt try any of the mid ranges from west side discs.. The Warship is one of my favorites whether its forehand or backhand.
I would really recommend trying a Discmania Method
glidey buzzz OS is money!
Any consideration for the Kastaplast Kaxe or Kaxe Z?
Hey Eric, are you powergripping or fangripping the mids? Hello from Germany, Martin
Power gripping all of these throws, but I do fan grip my Mids often
Midrange best discs hands down
So for understable midranges I love the discmania Origin. Wish it could've gotten screen time but It's probably too understable for your liking.
He also missed out on the Fuse and Svea, but I'm guessing that slot will be filled with his beat go-to neutral/stable mid.
You should try out the crystal sparkle Buzzz and ESP Buzzz to see which one you like the most.
I haven’t watched yet but wanted to say I am unreasonably excited about this video. Thanks for putting these out. I may be an outlier but I’m thinking how is he going to cover this many discs in 32 min… let’s find out!
Mustang was one of the discs I wanted to send you.
It fits in the buzz/roc/emactruth category.
And they season really clean.
Wait…where’d you get that Squall??!! That’s my jam sauce. I’ll give dollars if you hate it 🤤
Why no roc or roc3 testing. The color glow dx tour series roc3 are awesome they beat in to the understable slot and a champion one will have that whole stable shape the entire way.
Great video, disappointed the mustang didn’t make the cut though
Threw a buzz for a long time.. but the origin..... That's where it's at!! And where's the Ursus?
You use Innova discs as references a fair amount. Any particular reason that you didn't throw any? Super cool video. Might have to check that Piwakawaka, if for no other reason than getting to say its name.
When I grew up everything was compared to Innova. It’s hard to kick that habit.
Would love to see flight specs as well as the name, definitely would help when watching flights for those off name discs!
Great Great video. Reactor ftw. Emac for the memories..
Great video. But you missed my favorite midrange. The Kastaplast svea is a great understable mid
Def gotta try an Opto Explorer for the fairways
Also gotta try the meteor feels great in hand and it’s a nice understable middddd
Heard bout the MVP UPLINK? It releases in March. 5/5/-3/0.5
Looking forward to it; pre-ordered 2
It’s already released. I have one and love it. Can get it to flip up with a late turn.
@@torycaswell4204Alright alright.... That's what I'm looking for.... How does it feel/fit in your hand?
@@torycaswell4204 When I ordered mine they said I won't receive it until late Feb/early March. So hopefully will get them soon
Are you gonna try new Clash Discs mids?
For mids I bag a Paradox, Sol, Buzzz SS, two Buzzz, a Legacy Pursuit, and a Westside Anvil as well as a Zone and Harp
Chariot has never felt right or released out of my hand clean. Anubis though, money! Also I bag a verdict, hex and Paradox. I like shallow flat mids, used to love/throw the mako3 and emac truth as well. Feel in the hand is so important for a mid, a lot like a putter
Agreed! Forehead or backhand, I can make some good things happen when I go for my Anubis. The glow c blend is money.
esp buzzz, malta, and roc3. i’d like to try the discmania line and more mvp.
Start with the PYRO you will be glad you did
Surprised no Innova Roc?
How do the moonshine truths fly?
Bummer there's no Gateway or AGL mids in the mix. I bag all Gateway / AGL (Gateway made) mids and they are definitely underrated.
I’ve been looking forward to this one! Surprised to not see any Innova in the lineup. Is there a reason for that?
I just noticed your intro says your Twitch is TheEricOakley but I couldn't find that one :(
Arocoakley
@@WhalePants ahhh I see, TheEricOakley is your IG
Loving it!
Great vid! One thing that is confusing to me in many disc golf related videos: A disc is thrown with a hyzer angle and it flips to flat and flies straight, so the thrower says it's a straight disc. Shouldn't the comment be that it's an understable or slightly understable disc? If you throw the same disc on a flat release then it'll turn to the right. Any thoughts?
I'd just like to say first thanks for making a great video Eric and others! With that said i'd just like to say that as a new player the Comet by Discraft is one of my favorite disc because I don't have a forehand. With a very slight Anhyzer it does what I would need a forehand to do. Anyways, thanks again Eric for taking the time.
I have one and love it but an innova star mako3 is quite a lot better for throwing anhyzer turning shots, highly recommended
@@subspaceanomaly I also have a Mako3 in my bag. It was one of the first disc I bought outside of my starter pack. It is a great disc that I use for more distance straight shots.
@@xposition2001 nice. You're all set!
If you’re going with a Buzzz you’re going to need a pro-D one and beat it in to get what everyone likes out of them. The Buzzz SS throws more like a beat in Buzzz right out of the box!