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She was a very young woman when Astor died !! Not everyone is so shallow as to care about nothing but money ! She may certainly have been bowled over by the wealthy suave John Jacob Astor. She was a TEENAGER !! Her life reads like a tragedy.
Geez, Cadillac ! Money is not everything (which is not to say that I don't wish I had more !). Being rich does not help if you are lonely. That poor woman was austricized for MARRYING the lout...her social, standing would not have survived simply having lovers !
She really was stupid, neither marriage gave her the wealth or status that her first marriage did. She could have stayed single and just had boy toys for the rest of her life. At least she’d keep the house and fortune. A ring ain’t always the thing. Plus, she’d be the one in charge without the “husband” figure to rule over her. What a dunce.🙄
The villification of Madeleine Astor (nee Madeleine Talmadge Force) is rather misplaced if not entirely unfair. She was barely 15 when pervert John Jacob Astor first began grooming her by cozying up to her parents and inviting the entire family, Madeleine included, to lush weekenders at his home or on yachting parties. Coming from old money herself, her father being the owner of a prominent shipping company, Madeleine didn't need to chase monied men nor would she at 16 or even 18 have been interested in an old man like Astor without his coercion. He groomed her from a very young age, seduced her, and only married her to save hers and his family's reputation. Since she was a girl from a notable family, he had to marry her once high society discovered the scandal. He didn't want to and neiter did she. He had to. This is why they both look sad in photos, and especially her. Astor was a predator who had a well known habit of stalking and seducing underage girls. It's Astor who was the real fiend. Madeleine was a merely a victim.
He might have been a predator and she might have been a victim in that relationship, but she's still a shitty, adulterous person who went onto have other illicit affairs.
Maybe that's why she so infatuated with Enzo. She didn't get to be a normal teenager with boyfriends her age, doing things teens do. Just sad all the way around.
As someone said on the previous video, it appears she wasn't even the one he was unfaithful to his first wife with. I've been googling and can't find a name, but nowhere does it seem to imply it was her.
No way I would remarry just live off that wealth, and get a live in lover , unless the new husband was wealthy … Also, if those photos are from when she met Enzo she was a very hard looking 39, that’s not old, but her looks👀… Those newspaper articles were shady AF .
@@leanie5234Many before her did (have boy toys) throughout history. Where there’s a will there’s a way. Rumors may have sprung, but rumors are just that, and it’s not like she had a pristine reputation at this point anyway. Do you girl. Live your life. But it seems to me she wanted love, and that’ll make you do stupid things. We’ve all been there.
@@keypre8548 I don't know any 39 years old looking like that. Hell, 30s aren't old by far but all my BW friends and relatives and still look youthful throughout their 30s- 50s.
@@Smooshes786 Not really, the death rate was skewed because of childhood death. If you got through childhood, it was pretty much the same as it is now.
Knocked it out of the park as usual! @12:05: Love the fact checking of that egregiously incorrect article; proof that 90 years is not too late to correct something so wrong. Can't wait for the second half!
I was still being carded when I was 39 (no husband, no kids). What on Earth happened to her!? I guess being the Other Woman has its own special kind of negative Karma.
😂 Agreed. I'm also 39 and just shocked. Other than a healthy diet, exercise and good skincare, I don't do anything drastic (no Botox or fillers for me). I'm also married with 3 kids. She must have had one stressful life lol
“Asss-tor fortune” 😂 Thanks for making these videos. I am Titanic obsessed and it’s so juicy to hear about all of the drama from over 100 years ago. Idk what it is about it.
J.J. Astor divorced his wife to marry a young sweet and innocent girl named Madeleine. He himself and his first wife both had lovers. This was the norm of high society marriages. Wich were mostly arranged. Background and money meant more than love...
Wonderful with excellent presentation. One of my favorites channels . Thank you so much for your exceptional commentary and hard work putting these videos together!
I’ve been binge watching your stories. I love history especially if it’s told well. I had to subscribe to your channel after the first two stories o watched. Thank you and please keep the history coming. ❤
Hello, Ti! I am a new subscriber. The algorithm recommended you to me and I'd been watching without subbing for a bit, but when I saw how you shut down that man who basically gave you the youtube comment equivalent of "id like you better if you smiled?" I am ALL IN. You are incredible. You are setting an amazing example for content creators (and non content creators) on taking no bullshit. I am so impressed by your research skills, your professionalism, and your personality. You are an amazing presenter and you have my respect!
@@TisHotMessHistory Awesome!! I'm new to the channel and looking forward to a lazy afternoon, when I can do some binge watching! You have so many stories that I want to watch.
@@dannettepeters1507 thank you so much for watching my content! I hope that you get your lazy afternoon soon. Part 2 is ready. It's premiering at 1:45 pm CST - in a few minutes. ruclips.net/video/JqGSmVRnmVw/видео.html
Hi Here_We_Go_Again2! Thank you so much for watching and subscribing! I'm so glad that you enjoyed this video. Part 2 is ready. It's premiering at 1:45 pm CST - in a few minutes. ruclips.net/video/JqGSmVRnmVw/видео.html
Just discovered this channel and ohhhh yessss I’m loving it! Thank you! Why did women feel and look so old in their late 30s/40s back then? Madeline looks in her 50s! And she had money=access to good creams/treatments etc.. Thank goodness those days are over. 40 is not old! 45 is not old! 50 is not old either! And 60..is not old, especially if you feel young, and take care of yourself right? Aside from working out, taking care of urself=doing things that make you feel happy. Women are beautiful, not just the young ones..spread the word!
I'm with you! I am so happy to see women of today looking and feeling youthful. I don't understand why Madeleine didn't use some of her money to treat herself a little better. Thank you so much for giving my channel a try. I'm so glad that you're loving it, Marie!
Hi Kerian Chin! Thank you so much for watching and subscribing! I get these little-known scandal videos out every week and I live stream here and there. I try to post everything that's going to happen with this channel on my Community Tab. I hope that you continue to enjoy it here!
Loved this one again. I like very much that you do not have the 'cringeworthy' American way of saying the word 'like' in every sentence. I guess I am just an old English woman(who loves her language) but lives in Germany
Hi S. Lees! LOL! Hopefully this helps you out: Part 2 is ready. It's premiering at 1:45 pm CST - in a few minutes. ruclips.net/video/JqGSmVRnmVw/видео.html
With all that beauty in her teens, hard to believe she lost so much of it within two short decades. And clearly that tennis and games act to win the heart of the Italian gent was just an act, otherwise she would've been fit and vibrant as is any physically active person in their 30s. And being physically active leads to one being physically attractive for a good long time, as we see these days with these actresses in their 50s smiling for the camera in their swimsuits and saying, hey, look at me and I applaud them for being resourceful with fitness and nutrition. And when I was a little kid in San Francisco in the 60s, I used to enjoy watching Jack LaLanne do all his exercises on TV when it wasn't a school day. He was into it and I remember thinking back on that when I joined the Army and had to do all those exercises, too, just like Jack LaLanne. 😀
I couldn't marry someone for money, the type of person that interests me are funny, caring, close to my age, nondrinker, non-drug user, MUST like kids, I have 10 grandkids and 6 great grandkids, must not have any run ins with the law, but I've been happily married since 1977 and yes to the same man.
The sinking of the Lusitania got the US into WWI. So it had a much bigger impact than the sinking of the Titanic. The Lusitania was legitimate target for the U Boat, since it was carrying munitions for England.
The sinking of the Lusitania was one factor, but not the only cause of the USA entering into WWI. Both ships going down had a profound impact in different ways. Regardless, it's still insane that a news writer would place JJ Astor on the Lusitania as opposed to the Titanic. Astor's name is forever attached to that ship.
Honestly she should have just stayed as a rich widow. Had lovers and enjoyed her life. Raised her boy and done some philanthropic work. Why bother with marriage.. it ruined her..
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Hello Ti 🤗❤❤ sorry I'm late but you know I'm always here to support
Yes I’m with you I would have never remarried I would have had a lot of fun with a lot of men after all, you don’t have to marry the cow to get milk
I can’t find Part 2 of this story. 😢
@@oliviachetcuti225
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There is no way I would marry again , if i was set up financially well. UNLESS the new husband could provide more financially.
Totally. Other than that, what's the purpose?
If I was Madeleine,I would had stayed single (had a make friend) and lived off of John Jacob Astor’s 5 million dollar stipend for the rest of my life.
@@NovemberReigne I completely agree with that .
She was a very young woman when Astor died !! Not everyone is so shallow as to care about nothing but money ! She may certainly have been bowled over by the wealthy suave John Jacob Astor. She was a TEENAGER !! Her life reads like a tragedy.
Geez, Cadillac ! Money is not everything (which is not to say that I don't wish I had more !). Being rich does not help if you are lonely. That poor woman was austricized for MARRYING the lout...her social, standing would not have survived simply having lovers !
Oh WOW! 😮 I would have just kept a gentleman friend and NO marriage!
She really was stupid, neither marriage gave her the wealth or status that her first marriage did. She could have stayed single and just had boy toys for the rest of her life. At least she’d keep the house and fortune. A ring ain’t always the thing. Plus, she’d be the one in charge without the “husband” figure to rule over her. What a dunce.🙄
The villification of Madeleine Astor (nee Madeleine Talmadge Force) is rather misplaced if not entirely unfair. She was barely 15 when pervert John Jacob Astor first began grooming her by cozying up to her parents and inviting the entire family, Madeleine included, to lush weekenders at his home or on yachting parties. Coming from old money herself, her father being the owner of a prominent shipping company, Madeleine didn't need to chase monied men nor would she at 16 or even 18 have been interested in an old man like Astor without his coercion. He groomed her from a very young age, seduced her, and only married
her to save hers and his family's reputation. Since she was a girl from a notable family, he had to marry her once high society discovered the scandal. He didn't want to and neiter did she. He had to. This is why they both look sad in photos, and especially her.
Astor was a predator who had a well known habit of stalking and seducing underage girls.
It's Astor who was the real fiend. Madeleine was a merely a victim.
Thank you for this. My first thought was that he was a predator and groomed her. This is probably why she kept looking for love after his death
He might have been a predator and she might have been a victim in that relationship, but she's still a shitty, adulterous person who went onto have other illicit affairs.
yeah i came to say the same thing.
Maybe that's why she so infatuated with Enzo. She didn't get to be a normal teenager with boyfriends her age, doing things teens do. Just sad all the way around.
As someone said on the previous video, it appears she wasn't even the one he was unfaithful to his first wife with. I've been googling and can't find a name, but nowhere does it seem to imply it was her.
“He wanted some of that asssssssssTOR fortune” 😂. Thank you for another great video.
😂😂😂😂
😂😂😂😂😂😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Ti, I appreciate your research. It just shows that regardless of the era and dress, human motivation never changes.
No way I would remarry just live off that wealth, and get a live in lover , unless the new husband was wealthy … Also, if those photos are from when she met Enzo she was a very hard looking 39, that’s not old, but her looks👀… Those newspaper articles were shady AF .
It was not so easy for a woman to "just take a lover" in those days
I wouldn't even want a lover. Leave me and my money alone
@@leanie5234Many before her did (have boy toys) throughout history. Where there’s a will there’s a way. Rumors may have sprung, but rumors are just that, and it’s not like she had a pristine reputation at this point anyway. Do you girl. Live your life. But it seems to me she wanted love, and that’ll make you do stupid things. We’ve all been there.
Wait wait wait!!! Did you just say she took ANOTHER cruise after surviving the Titanic?!?! 😮😮😮 I could never. 😱
She really had a tragic and sad adulthood. 3 marriages and dies at 45.
I want ALL the smoke 😅😅😅. That's a HARD 39... that's more like 59.
Like I said 39 x’s what????
No smoke here that 39 is hard indeed lol
Big time
@@keypre8548 I don't know any 39 years old looking like that. Hell, 30s aren't old by far but all my BW friends and relatives and still look youthful throughout their 30s- 50s.
69 😂
😮😮No way she was 39 years old!!! All that wealth and she couldn’t do things to look more youthful!!
Their life expectancy was lower than ours. She was 39 when the average age of death for a woman was 55. Life was tougher.
@@Smooshes786 Not really, the death rate was skewed because of childhood death. If you got through childhood, it was pretty much the same as it is now.
Life expectancy ?
It all depended on your health and genetics.
Then as now.
Plus Madeleine had no option of botox...
😂😂😂
@@jd-no7rw ok. Life was not tougher then either right? All the dead young ot would indeed affect whoever is left. 👀
Knocked it out of the park as usual! @12:05: Love the fact checking of that egregiously incorrect article; proof that 90 years is not too late to correct something so wrong. Can't wait for the second half!
Thank you Eshi!
Part 2 is ready. It's premiering at 1:45 pm CST - in a few minutes.
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I was still being carded when I was 39 (no husband, no kids). What on Earth happened to her!? I guess being the Other Woman has its own special kind of negative Karma.
😅😅
Different times mostly, today we have more to keep us looking younger.
😂 Agreed. I'm also 39 and just shocked. Other than a healthy diet, exercise and good skincare, I don't do anything drastic (no Botox or fillers for me). I'm also married with 3 kids. She must have had one stressful life lol
I hollered reading your comment🤣
You’re attacking a victim of a pedophile and a groomer. You are a special kind of evil human being.
😂🤣😂🤣 Loved the line "...he wanted some of that As...tor fortune 🤣😂🤣😂
Happy Saturday, Ti!!!! This one was SOOO good. I can't wait for the second part.
Hi Rebels! Thank you! I'll get it done as soon as I can.
Part 2 is ready. It's premiering at 1:45 pm CST - in a few minutes.
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“Asss-tor fortune” 😂
Thanks for making these videos. I am Titanic obsessed and it’s so juicy to hear about all of the drama from over 100 years ago. Idk what it is about it.
J.J. Astor divorced his wife to marry a young sweet and innocent girl named Madeleine.
He himself and his first wife both had lovers.
This was the norm of high society marriages.
Wich were mostly arranged.
Background and money meant more than love...
Maybe it's just me but most of these "rich ladies" are a bit homely looking. Maybe because they are descendants of money and class.
“That hard penne” 😂 I almost spit my coffee out.
I don't think she was attractive as a teen. She did not improve.
😂😂 😂
She must have had something that attracted JJ Astor
You made me laugh so hard! “…some of that Astor…” 😂😂😂
Lol me too she drug that out perfectly 🤣.
just came here from the jj astor video. thanks for part 2!! 😊
Wonderful with excellent presentation. One of my favorites channels . Thank you so much for your exceptional commentary and hard work putting these videos together!
So happy I stumbled across your vids! Keep them coming!
Thank you so much! You'll get another one SOON!
It must have been her smile when she was younger too.
😂
For the record when she was young she wasn't good looking then but I digress...
Right...Astors first wife looked wayyy better
She always looked manly lol
Oh, I thought she was quite pretty in an understated way.
She was a hard 39! 😢
Agreed! I thought she was in her fifties
I’ve been binge watching your stories. I love history especially if it’s told well. I had to subscribe to your channel after the first two stories o watched. Thank you and please keep the history coming. ❤
‘Flapping his gums to the press’…..🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Love this. Very interesting thank you. I’ve subscribed. 😊
Some of that “Ass…tor fortune” 😆😁
I couldn't resist! LOL!
❤ Thank you, can't wait for part two!
Thank YOU!
Part 2 is ready. It's premiering at 1:45 pm CST - in a few minutes.
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You are a good story teller 😊
9:13 “damn that!” I’m screaming 💀
18 was not a teenager in 1912. The life expectancy was 55 back then. The age equivalent would be a 32 year old woman today.
Hello, Ti! I am a new subscriber. The algorithm recommended you to me and I'd been watching without subbing for a bit, but when I saw how you shut down that man who basically gave you the youtube comment equivalent of "id like you better if you smiled?" I am ALL IN.
You are incredible. You are setting an amazing example for content creators (and non content creators) on taking no bullshit.
I am so impressed by your research skills, your professionalism, and your personality. You are an amazing presenter and you have my respect!
Thank you. Will be waiting for part 2
Thank you, Tay Tay! I'm working on it now!
Part 2 is ready. It's premiering at 1:45 pm CST - in a few minutes.
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Looking forward to part two!
Hi dannette! I have already started writing!
@@TisHotMessHistory Awesome!! I'm new to the channel and looking forward to a lazy afternoon, when I can do some binge watching! You have so many stories that I want to watch.
@@dannettepeters1507 thank you so much for watching my content! I hope that you get your lazy afternoon soon.
Part 2 is ready. It's premiering at 1:45 pm CST - in a few minutes.
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@@TisHotMessHistory GREAT!! I'm here and it is starting!
COME ON PART 2! YOU GOT US FEIGNING LIKE JODECI!
LOL, Pretty Caramel!
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@@TisHotMessHistory I'M RUNNING OVER THERE NNNNEEEEOOOOWWWWW🏃🏾♀️🏃🏾♀️🏃🏾♀️🏃🏾♀️🏃🏾♀️🏃🏾♀️🏃🏾♀️🏃🏾♀️🏃🏾♀️🏃🏾♀️🏃🏾♀️🏃🏾♀️🏃🏾♀️🏃🏾♀️🏃🏾♀️
Awesome research Ti! I am loving these Titanic stories. Thanks for sharing them 🤗💙.
Thank you Tammy!
Part 2 is ready. It's premiering at 1:45 pm CST - in a few minutes.
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So good. Cannot wait for part two!
Thank you!
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Talk about the tabloid press!
Nice video, thank you. Looking forward to part 2.
subscribed
Hi Here_We_Go_Again2! Thank you so much for watching and subscribing! I'm so glad that you enjoyed this video.
Part 2 is ready. It's premiering at 1:45 pm CST - in a few minutes.
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Hang on? Where's the usual music? I love it please bring it back. Also, I am loving these Titanic dive ins, so interesting.
Just discovered this channel and ohhhh yessss I’m loving it! Thank you!
Why did women feel and look so old in their late 30s/40s back then? Madeline looks in her 50s! And she had money=access to good creams/treatments etc..
Thank goodness those days are over. 40 is not old! 45 is not old! 50 is not old either! And 60..is not old, especially if you feel young, and take care of yourself right? Aside from working out, taking care of urself=doing things that make you feel happy.
Women are beautiful, not just the young ones..spread the word!
I'm with you! I am so happy to see women of today looking and feeling youthful. I don't understand why Madeleine didn't use some of her money to treat herself a little better. Thank you so much for giving my channel a try. I'm so glad that you're loving it, Marie!
Thank-you so much!
Thank YOU!
I waited for this. Now I watch with popcorn 🍿.TI you a trip. 😂
Oh, I am locked in for Part 2. This was good. 😂🤣
Hey EyeSis!
Part 2 is ready. It's premiering at 1:45 pm CST - in a few minutes.
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I miss the music you used to play. It was very calming…I wish you’d consider adding it again…please?
And he wanted some of that ASStor money 😂😂😂 girl you're messy 😂😂😂
We need more!!!!
LOL! Hi Gabriela!
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New subscriber 🇯🇲🇨🇦❤️
Hi Kerian Chin! Thank you so much for watching and subscribing! I get these little-known scandal videos out every week and I live stream here and there. I try to post everything that's going to happen with this channel on my Community Tab. I hope that you continue to enjoy it here!
@@TisHotMessHistory hiii thank you for posting these videos nice to hear about the pass . I’m on my 7th video now .great videos❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️👍🏽👍🏽
Thank you SO much!
Wait! Where is my favorite song in the background??
Loved this one again. I like very much that you do not have the 'cringeworthy' American way of saying the word 'like' in every sentence. I guess I am just an old English woman(who loves her language) but lives in Germany
Your comment made me laugh so hard! I know of the "like" problem we have. Thank you ❤
Very good research, l've got one for you, 'Nan Britton and President Harding' 😊
Even Enzos wife looked older than him 🤷🏽♀️
As a 40 yr old, good help me if i look this rough lol
Not the ASSSSTOR fortune😂😂😂😂😂😂
Mr. Eric Braeden...Victor Newman@0:36
Happy Mother's Day in advance
I have a relative that died on the Lusitania.
Wow! they were cheaten and fornicating way back then dig that 😂🤣 thank you for the video it's greatly appreciated 😊
People have ALWAYS been a hot mess! LOL! Thank YOU for watching!
@@TisHotMessHistory yeah I see 🤣😂🤣I can't imagine them having sex and cheating 🤣😂🤣I don't know why I can't 🤣😂
Very scandalous but amazing story about the did Titanic boat
Crazy Story!
I agree.
Not a cliffhanger, guess I got to turn on my notifications!😂💕
Hi S. Lees! LOL!
Hopefully this helps you out:
Part 2 is ready. It's premiering at 1:45 pm CST - in a few minutes.
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With all that beauty in her teens, hard to believe she lost so much of it within two short decades. And clearly that tennis and games act to win the heart of the Italian gent was just an act, otherwise she would've been fit and vibrant as is any physically active person in their 30s. And being physically active leads to one being physically attractive for a good long time, as we see these days with these actresses in their 50s smiling for the camera in their swimsuits and saying, hey, look at me and I applaud them for being resourceful with fitness and nutrition. And when I was a little kid in San Francisco in the 60s, I used to enjoy watching Jack LaLanne do all his exercises on TV when it wasn't a school day. He was into it and I remember thinking back on that when I joined the Army and had to do all those exercises, too, just like Jack LaLanne. 😀
Sounds like she tried to act like her first hubby for her third hubby. I figure she didn't think just remaining single was an option in her time.
39 is so young nowadays. Yet she looks so much older.
Love how you speak the truth, down and dirty!
Thank you so much, Skarfp!
39 ??? Oh boy 😮
You're awesome. I love your videos. New subscriber
I couldn't marry someone for money, the type of person that interests me are funny, caring, close to my age, nondrinker, non-drug user, MUST like kids, I have 10 grandkids and 6 great grandkids, must not have any run ins with the law, but I've been happily married since 1977 and yes to the same man.
I need that asstor fortune 😂
Me too! 😆 🤣
Im comfortable and no matter what state i was in I would never get married unless I needed one of his lungs.
Very interesting very excited WOW OMG ❤❤❤
He was already divorced before he started courting Madeline. His first wife was already living abroad, and she filed for divorce from Astor.
Meow! BTW Ti - you are beautiful! Keep up the good work!
Spreadsheets bahahahahahaha ded that one had me laughing myself ded mostly because i also have a migraine but im still giggling 😂
Thats an old looking 39!
😲😲😐😐 gave up fortune by marrying again, I have no words …
The sinking of the Lusitania got the US into WWI. So it had a much bigger impact than the sinking of the Titanic. The Lusitania was legitimate target for the U Boat, since it was carrying munitions for England.
The sinking of the Lusitania was one factor, but not the only cause of the USA entering into WWI. Both ships going down had a profound impact in different ways. Regardless, it's still insane that a news writer would place JJ Astor on the Lusitania as opposed to the Titanic. Astor's name is forever attached to that ship.
American troops did not get actively involved in the war until the summer of 1918, three years after the Lusitania sank.
Dat Asstor fortune 😂
I wondered how close they are to the Astor Vanderbilt’s of Guilded Age … I think they were after
At 14:49 why does it say Lusitania? They must have messed that up. Goes to show that even after 110 years, mistakes are still made with the news lol.
Stupid decision 🙄I would not have married ever
She should have just had lovers. Never remarried
TIIIII GUUUURL 🤦🏽♀️🤣
She was a HARDDD 39!!! Dayummm! 😂
Honestly she should have just stayed as a rich widow. Had lovers and enjoyed her life. Raised her boy and done some philanthropic work. Why bother with marriage.. it ruined her..
EXACTLY! That's what I would have done. I guess she was just craving "love".
Hard penne 🤣
I hope that it was good to her.
Hey Ti can you a scandal on Roman Emperess Messilina?
My comment has nothing to do with the story. It is his name.Enzo ...
It sounds like some new kinda of high-powered ingredient in laundry soap.
she does not look 39 in that picture. She looks much older.
I see why she liked him 😂 he was cute
LOL! He was.
I thought she was 60 when they showed her photo when she had the affair 😮
4:45: Wooo, that's a HARD 39!
Big crime, J.P Morgan the Killer
This is messy. SMH 🤦♀️ 😊
Very excited what the heck is very beautiful story kinda hot mias but amazing story ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
What the heck that's crazy OMG very hot mess for real though ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Hey, you reap what you sow!! #tisaidwhattisaid
She reaped that, plus some extra. I already started writing Part 2!