Why Oldsmobile's Diesel V8 Failed
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- Опубликовано: 5 мар 2019
- When Oldsmobile first released for the 1978 model year the 5.7 liter (350 cubic-inch) V8 engine, it seemed to be the perfect solution to GM's dilemma of how to increase fuel efficiency in its full-size and mid-size cars rear-wheel drive cars. What the 1978-1985 Oldsmobile 5.7 liter Diesel V8 became was one of GM's biggest nightmares. This video explains why.
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Had a friend in the valley across from Mexico who had two suburbans stolen. He put the diesel badges on his third one and it was never stolen.
Across from Mexico?
Meaning the entire SW USA?
ahh try that with a late 80s early 90s dodge ram diesel...in mexico any place you stop they will ask if you want to sell...
@@miguelcastaneda7236 was that particular year or generation a turbocharged diesel in the 5.9 Litre era? For Dodge?
@@miguelcastaneda7236 I only ask because for a few years in America, Ford offered a 6.7 litre diesel and a 7.3 liter diesel both were naturally aspirated and non turbocharged or supercharged but both were sequentially and mechanically fuel metered a bit earlier than 1993, I saw a 1987 f350 Ford with a na diesel in 7.3litre and a 1982 ford grain truck with a na 6.7liter diesel both were stock and factory original. Barely running. But I wasn't in a position to correct that, or buy them and correct the issues.
Ha ha
I graduated high school in 1981, got my first job at oldsmobile in 1982. Became their diesel tech, ond soley worked on these engines. They were the biggest lemons ive ever seen. I was paid $16 per hour flat rate at the time. Bought my first house in 1986. Ive always told my wife that that engine bought our first house. Great video, brought back memories.
Is this the same Diesel 5.7 they put in the 1984 Cadillac??? There is one for sale and it says "NOT the 4100"
@@conniealldis The 5.7 had three versions....first one had fuel injectors with fuel return lines. The second version had no fuel return lines, the third version had a beefeir block due to the blocks cracking in the main cap area. They also made a 260 horspower diesel, maybe it was a 4.3 litre....i forget, and they made a very few v6 versions, but by the time they came out, the 5.7 ruined the diesel name. To answer your question, yes the cadillac had the same engine. All platforms used it.
@@munkeybonz589 I will not be buying the Caddy then. One owner an old guy, it's a cream puff. If I had the money I would just put a LS in it:)
@@conniealldis Cant believe those cars are still around..take care.
@@munkeybonz589 Thanks to your info I will not be buying it.
The Olds diesel reliability was genius!
It was responsible for the chance meeting of a high school basketball player and a cheerleader of a rival school.
A parking lot breakdown led to what would be our 28th wedding anniversary in June .
Well it's as they say everything happens for a reason. Glad yours was a happy one in the end.
wonderful, you got a fine woman and I got screwed
GM customers found out about Toyota and Mercedes Benz engineering and Quality control standards and found happiness as well!
Congratulations on in your 31 years of happiness
Congratulations on in your 31 years of happiness
I've never figured out why GM did this insanity when they owned Detroit Diesel? They had people who knew how to make diesel engines.
Because the two-stroke diesel, although awesome to listen to, was too heavy for cars and had poor emissions.
@@was1958 Not all Detroit Diesels are two strokes.
Exactly they finally went to DD for the 6.2L though.
Space Ghost now. Back then Detroit Diesel had never made a 4 stroke engine before and I believe the first was the 8.2 and that was from the 80s.
@@SquishyZoran 2 stroke 4 stroke does not matter the same basic engineering applies for architecture. And that is where GM failed..
My father was a traveling salesman and bought one of these diesel Oldsmobiles because he put down 50,000 miles a year. Luckily he bought the extended warranty. He got great fuel mileage and met every Oldsmobile mechanic in eight states.
Too funny, Bob!
With job of 100,000 a year paid by mile, Olds 98, followed by Eldorado, my luxury 'heavy car' diesels saw very little parked time. I carried a spare injector pump governor ring [nylon], installed on roadsides after periodic loss of governor control. Installation, followed by 'cracking' an injector line fitting, to bleed air, and away we went, total time 1 hour. With fuel econ in the 30+ range at top speeds heavily loaded with equipment, consistently near 100, the GM diesels both paid heir own costs and even earned a slight profit. Secret to diesels. Run them until they are worn out, Never let them cool down ;)
Gas mileage? That was his problem. Surely at least one of those mechanics told him to switch to diesel fuel.
@@scarhart53 too funny and it's printed on the fuel cap as well.
"gas mileage"? More like Diesel mileage....
I talked my uncle into buying one of these and he never spoke to me again.
Tim Morris too funny. I remember when my uncle bought a 79 Cadillac fleetwood diesel. Cost 14k new. Car was a lemon from the start.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
My father bought a Cadillac Fleetwood with this engine on the late eighties.
Owned it only for a few months.
The car was unable to climb the driveway at our cottage. It would just stop 2/3 of the way up the hill with pedal to the floor.
It had to be towed out. That was the end if that. Car went back to the dealership.
My uncles simply ignored the children. Like an intelligent adult would. A valuable lesson that millennials failed to learn.
@@mitch_the_-itch In today world that's wise, back then most teenagers knew more about auto mechanics than most adults.
My parents had an 84 Oldsmobile with a diesel. They loved that car... huge vehicle... great ride.... 30 mpg. It started out as my dad's company car... which he in turn bought to become part of our family. Never had any problems with it.
As a Degreed Mechanical Engineer who worked at a Gulf gas station during college, I agree with your fine video. As an engineer with years of test experience in various areas, I’ve found management wants testing, but not too much and when you report the results they don’t want to believe it. “We’ve got deadlines and we will meet those deadlines whether you like it or not. Besides, your testing goes beyond what any customer will do.”
What did you do for a living ?
Called bean counters mentality like Boeing!
My parents hit the early 80’s jackpot with the purchase of both the diesel 350 in a fleetwood and the 6/8/4 6.0 gas engine in a Seville. They never bought another GM after that
Oh no...say it's not so :(
Yep, my buddies dad bought a diesel Olds wagon in 1980 and the 8/6/4 Seville in 1981.
GM called the Cadillac engine “High Tech” LOL High tech obviously meant something else back then.
And that's why I like the '82 olds 98 four door diesel. Got the bugs almost all out 😜
I am so sorry. Sometimes bad things happen to good people.
Another classic case of GM rushing something too quickly into production and killing it off just when they get it right.
The name of the 350 diesel was already ruined. No one wanted them by that point. Similar to the Corvair's problem.
charles walkes ehh Intentional did that to ford with the 6.0 and cut every corner possible with the 6.4 diesels that’s why ford stopped using them and went with their own 6.7
Like the Ford Focus transmission currently in production.
Just like the Detroit gm 6.5 and 6.2
The latest example of that is the Chevy Volt. All that development and then gone.
I was talking to a friend who managed the Chrysler Training Center in St Louis and asked him about the rumored slant 6 diesel. His reply was that they actually had the engine developed, but that GM had basically killed the US diesel market.
That's my contention, the reason Americans don't have diesel engine vehicles like the Europeans is because GM so poisoned the diesel reputation no one ever wanted a diesel vehicle.
@@terrywiggins1736 I think there's a conspiracy theory about GM doing this purposefully to smear the public into buying petrol cars with more expensive repair and fuel costs.
Not taking away from GM's missteps but just remember it was the government that forced the change not the marketplace. :(
Absolutely
GM engineers vs accountants
Cylinder pressure vs clamping force
This sort of catastrophe should have never happened.
Head studs son ;-) ... with some minor effort these could have been good engines.
A close friend of mine bought a brand new 1980 Oldsmobile 98 diesel. It was drop-dead gorgeous; slate grey exterior with a vinyl roof, coach lights, wire wheels and every option you could get. The interior was a cocoon of black leather pillowed seats, deep pile carpet, power everything, a ride like a cloud and just as quiet. It was a truly beautiful car, and a head turner. But a car is only as good as its engine, and GM truly screwed up with rushing this one to market. That car spent more time in the shop than in the driveway; constantly breaking down, not starting, stalling, rough idle, etc. It was a shame because, without the engine, this was a real gem of an American luxury car.
At the age of 26 I ordered a 98, black everything, heavy duty every duty everything and had a water separator installed...should have never sold it
They sure dont make interiors like they used to!
i had an olds delta 88 diesel. used red line gas treatment. i remember back then in calif waiting in line with the 18 wheelers to get gas
I drove a 98 Wagon - and my brother maintained it for a customer...
Only problem? Torque ran out at about 30 MPH...
Only the US could try to solve low mileage with a 5.7L V8
Floris Kuipers and only manage to get 105hp from it!
Exactly.
It GOT mileage. My Dad had a Diesel 88 and a Chevy Citation. He drove the diesel on his long commute because it got better mileage. Being a converted gas engine though, it lacked longevity. Being a non-turbo diesel, it also lacked power.
And the US also made 390hp out of a 4 cyl
@@Sherman62 It is about US mentallity about displacement growing satarting in the 50's because crude oil was so cheap to the public (because it was stolen). That any power improvement were achived just with more displascement, what lead you to low mileage. But who mind about that when Detroit big 3 are getting richier and richier and richier...
Here in Europe, with more mountain roads, we drove 600 c.c.(36 cubic inches) with all the family and luggage for holidays. XD
no cheap oil, no big blocks.
The Olds Diesel engines are in *GREAT* demand for tuners due to how bullet proof they were. The already nickel iron block was sturdy for most high horsepower situations, but with full main webbings and skirtings, these blocks were amazing! Take one of these 350 diesel blocks, modify a few oil galleries and slap on some regular heads (usually from the 400 series engines) and this was an 11:1 high output engine that could run all day at top RPMs! If you can find one, grab it...
I have one of these blocks to do a stroker conversion for
Use a custom ordered 425 crank shaft for the conversion for the 350 diesel stroker conversion build up strokers and also use the 455 Head s for much better Air Flow and also use the Edelbrock performer rpm intake and the Edelbrock performer carburetor at least 450 HP or more depending on how you setup the combination I'm going for a 560 HP and a 640 ft lbs figure my self to put in my 69 w31 f85 build with a Rock crusher 4 speed manual and a decent setup for the gears in rear end ratio 3:2.3:1 are possible
You covered the subject completely. I was hooked in 1979 for my 1st diesel wagon, went through several head gaskets before it was totaled in a rear end accident. Bought a 1980 diesel wagon from a friend, injector pumps, broken head bolts, then a rebuilt engine was put with warranty. It failed. Oldsmobile dealer gave up on repair, made me a deal, I bought a 1995 Jeep Cherokee and drove it 330,000 miles. The best car I ever owned.
The funny thing is, my Mom had one of these, and she had 150k miles on it, before she sold it. Never had a problem.
Dad put somewhere around 180K on one before he traded it off in 1990. Had lots of good times in high school in the old "Toro". Just treat them like a diesel and not a gas and lots less problems.
@@seththomas9105 My friends dad had one ('85 I believe) and loved it. Bulletproof for if I recall around 200K miles.
Yeah being around the Oldsmobile shop that my dad ran it really was a hit or miss thing .but I’m pretty sure even if you got one that worked if you brought yours in the factory would pay to put a brand new motor in it free of charge.
GM really did work the bugs out of them by ‘82 or so. They were quite durable after that.
If they’d properly beta tested it and the world met the 5.7 in its reliable form, the whole story would have been unimaginably different.
were you in warmer climate?
Back in the 80's I worked at a engine rebuild shop. We had a boat load of them. Every one we went through had a cracked crank on the 2nd main and cracked heads.
One broke a crank at idle when I was standing next to it. I bought it for nothing and stuck a gas in it and never smogged it because Calif DMV had it coded as a diesel.
Same here, they were scrap metal. Every one I pulled had broken cranks. Used all brackets and other components on gas engines and had very happy costumers!
so what was the biggest akelys hill ? as a gas to diesel engine? say dodge did that with the 440 or the 426 hemi BBC what would've have happened? as the 440 is considered in some ways stronger built like some of the blocks having 6 bolt mains and 5 headbolts-per-cylinder vs the old's engine or what need mods to work correctly as the 70's gasoline and government crunch ? and modernising a 60-70's diesel design? for 2019-up minus the emissions equipment as thats difficult different topics ect.😉
add in the ford BBF/460 as i know that ford was considering it and had mule engine's/car's/truck's and wondered what would've happened if they did end up selling them in 1968-91?
I have a 1981 Chevy C10 Pickup Truck 5.7 V8 Diesel and Absolutely Love it. owned it 22 years sorted out the blowing Head Gaskets problem and gone around Clock 4 times it now has Compression Ratio 30 to 1 still going very strong. Diesel Consumption 66 miles to 5L Diesel at 65mph
THERE FUEL MILEAGE WAS AWESOME BECAUSE THEY WERE BEING TOWED MOST OF THE TIME
*their
@@yaboidustin2447 caps lock and there has to be right. jk
2D troll
I wish I had a barn full of NOS 350DX crate engines.
the one and only time my Mercury Grand Marquis has ever had a tow in the 500k miles it has traveled, it got 99mpg.. Dont judge me, the instant MPG display proved it.
This is a joke, btw.. The car is not a joke, though. 1 tow in 500k miles, blew a radiator hose to far from home.
Should have gone across the street and had Detroit diesel division design it.
They were too cheap to do that. Greed got in the way of quality as usual.
It would have lasted a million miles and weighed two tons.
They were forbidden to do this because GM didn't want cross charges from Detroit diesel for consulting. Very shortsighted.
They already had it 4-53 detroit. But a 50 yr old design wouldn't have been accepted.
@@richardturner8630 Like I said, lasts a million miles and weighs a ton.
I had one in a 1982 Gran prix, it was a great car, got 35 mpg and was actually a good starter here in Wisconsin
It had a rear window heater to keep your hands warm while pushing it.
Hahahaha nice.
That was the Yugo. Olds cars are too heavy to push by hand.
@@3matic7 amen
That jokes been used on way too many cars, pretty sure it was so heavy anyways you would need the hulk to push it
@@wildman510 but I used it here first
My parents bought one brand new. A 1980 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme diesel. Many of the problems were from GM bean counters eliminating the water separator from the fuel system. They saved about 30 bucks per car but caused a domino effect of disasters that only the V864 could compete with. Love the channel. Best wishes....
I remember that V8-6-4... 1981?
It didn’t last long.
Primitive electronics and a carburetor
@@drippinglass computerized carburetor. They were garbage
Frank W
I looked it up... digital fuel Injection GM called it. Basically a throttle body.
They did use a similar setup into the early 90’s on pickups.
Occasionally I hear one go by.
@@drippinglass this was a computerized quadrajet carburetor. Throttle body was a little better.
The main problem with GM were the bean counters. Make them cheap as possible.
That's one of the reasons I got out of engineering. The bean counters and stockholders want everything really cheap. So cheep in fact that the product ends up not working right. Then the engineers are still at work at 3am trying to fix all the problems while all the bean counters and stockholders are at home in bed. Screw them!
And they made them cheap as possible. Short term gains always equal long term losses. The results speak for themselves.
Still do.
Manufactures are still doing it such as putting a small displacement engine with a turbo in a vehicle when a larger NA engine would have gotten roughly the same gas mileage and even have a lower fuel cost.
@Saint Fifty One Additional design costs plus piston stroke distance must stay the same for the same compression ratio meaning the piston rod must still clear the smaller cylinder size.
I put a brand new one in my 46 international . I changed the head bolts one at a time to arp studs.efi services in modesto built me an injector pump.we put 2 turbos off the Buick v6.only made 7 pounds of boost.and that thing was a torque monster . Pulled my 5th wheel for many years with no problems .
My dad was a GM diesel mechanic back in this era. I could always tell when he had been working on one cause he would come home smelling of diesel fuel. By the time I got my license in the 90’s I owned a bunch of GM diesels. They were sooo cheap and got Awsome mileage. Then when the engine did have an issue you could pickup a good gas olds engine 350, 403 or 455 from the junkyard and they would bolt right in!! Instant hotrod!
I had a '79 Olds Delta 88 that was originally diesel, converted to gas 350. The front end stuck way up awkwardly because of the lighter weight of the engine. The transmission also seemed to be geared for the diesel, it never revved much and got like 10 mpg.
@@robertcotner8568 That tranny was likely a TH200C, which too was infamous for ever being used behind the diesel V8 instead of, out of weight considerations, the TH350C.
owned a diesel shop thru the 80s into the early 2000s, and these engines were misunderstood at best.
had plenty of customers get well in excess of quarter million miles on them.
afte rexplaining to them they were not gas engines. start them and warm them up. before taking off! you dont put diesel under load until the heat is fully thru the engine.
unfortunately car owners dont understand that.
built a few pumps and injectors for them, upgraded fuel filtration and they ran forever
Drove one briefly when I ran a car donation program for a charity back in the 1990's. Very clear to me, for a diesel, it was a light duty engine intended to be driven moderately on the street and pull the car at highway cruising speeds. No more than that.
As a diesel, it required maintenance and you dare not skip it. You could creep along as it was warming up but you couldn't push it. It was built on a gasoline engine block. It was not that strong, and you couldn't jam it all the time and expect it to survive. Never worked on it. I figured all of this out just driving it for a few weeks.
brian alley I put 400K on my 62 Buick 401. 250K was nothing for an engine back then. The cars in the 60's and 70's died because the bodies rusted.
We're the head bolts undersized and lead to head gasket problems?
brian alley a diesel doesn’t build heat at idle. They won’t “warm up” at idle.
@@deanfield9308 BUT The Olds 350, modified Diesel wasn't a true diesel, and it did in fact "warm up" I live down here in Eastern Maine where the temperature gets to -40 occasionally, and I can attest to the fact that those Olds diesels didn't have much...but the heaters were awesome!
I have one in a 1980 Cadillac Seville it's still running strong.
surprising
Wow
You have any videos of it running? I'd like to see it!
I remember the issues with the transmissions, complaints about the noise and smoke. And another nail in the Diesel’s coffins was the fact that as soon as popularity in diesel motors started to rise, the oil companies simply jacked up the cost of fuel so that it was higher than gas. Therefore, given everything, any advantage of Diesel over gas was wiped out.
Im gonna argue that the government and there increasing regulations on clean diesel and ULSD are responsible for higher priced diesel.
Diesel got 30 cent Fed tax on it. The video was wrong about the availability of diesel fuel. Had to go to truck stops. Only the P/U diesel popularity did it show up in the burbs.
@@crashandburnbirner That was a huge boondoggle. It ruined fuel pumps and shortened ring life. Plus, it is too expensive.
@jimchik - yes, the diesel fuel is also less expensive to produce than gasoline.... Less refining is involved with Diesel fuel.... Price gouging by the petroleum companies is what happened... This is why alternative fuels are so important... To provide an alternative fuel that can compete with the petroleum monopolies, would force the prices to decrease, possibly dramatically.... There is LNG, Bio-Fuel, Alcohol, LMG, HHO, CNG... Others fuels also especially with alternative powerplants in the vehicles.... There will always be a need for Petroleum products, for plastics, lubricants, road construction raw materials, various adhesives & epoxies, rubber products, etc. But, there should also be much LESS need for the current petroleum products, to provide energy & power for various vehicles... Other fuels should be used, especially now... Electric battery cars are a huge boondoggle... Way too much energy is lost between the place that creates the electrical power and where the rubber meets the road... Only about 10-14% of the energy created at the power plants, is actually used to power battery vehicles... Huge loss's are created by transferring energy in that manner, which is dissipated into the atmosphere, in the form of un-usable heat.... It is one of the most wasteful methods to use energy, ever....
@@michaelmartinez1345 100% on point. I am not against electric cars, BUT, they need to start designing them with quick-change battery packs, like an electric fork lift. Battery low? Just go to the nearest battery swapping station, where your nearly discharged battery will be swapped for a freshly charged one. It only takes about 7 - 10 minutes, just like getting gas. Otherwise, they are nothing but gloried golf carts. Did you know that a gas engine can run on hydrogen? What is missing is a way to store it and a proper fuel system. If they solve those problems, the internal combustion engine will get a 2nd lease on life!
I had two 1982 diesel Delta 88. They were used oil field drilling company company cars. Had got rid of the factory fuel filter and added a Marine type fuel filter. I drove both cars to way over 300,000 mi on each had to change the injector pump about every 100,000 miles and a starter about every 100,000 MI. Had to change the transmission in one of them. But that was because of a pinhole in the torque converter. Never had to touch the AC system I never flush the cooling systems never change any radiator hoses just the belts. I wish I still had those cars today as they got 28 miles to the gallon religiously
Traded a 10 Anniversary Trans Am for an 80 Toronado XSC with the infamous 5.7 diesel. The rural dealer, who also sold farm equipment, equipped the engine with a fuel separator and a fuel filter prior to delivery. Purchased all my fuel from truck stops and during cold weather paid extra for fuel with an additive. Keep it for about 18 months and put about 50k miles, as I recall. One of the most trouble-free and comfortable cars I have owned.
Yep, good clean, water free fuel was all they needed
I had a 79 10 anniv also.
400 pontiac, 4sppeed.
Best ta ever built.
Bought it in SF fo 1500 bucks in 1988.
Same thing applies today, factory fuel filtering isn't good enough. fuel pumps in the tank and return lines stirring up air in the tank etc. Seems like most of the diesel class needs some extreme design improvements if they are to impress the public. Fuel pumps, fuel filters, water separators, lift pumps etc. and fuel additives. What a load of processes
Paul Ramsey, Back when new the 4-speed models were going 5/7k over sticker. Great bargain price for a 10 year old T/A. The 10th Anniversaries are beginning to hit their stride value wise. Saw a wonderfully restored one recently go for right at 100k.
@@lorenzomartini6165the Stealership always is very greedy and that’s why most have failed. It’s not on the sales team but the biggest criminal organization is the service dept.
I put 160,00 kms (Canada) and never had one issue. My was the roller cam and beefed up block 1981 Pontiac. I loved the car. My dad put a Raycor heater separater on it for me.
My first car was a 1980 Pontiac Bonneville coupe 5.7 diesel. I really miss that luxury liner. 27mpg all day long on the freeway.
I was born in Pontiac in 1980
Back in the early eighties, I worked in a GM shop. So many of these came through, it seemed like every second vehicle on the hoist was a 5.7
I heard an old gm tech praising these engines for how much income they generated for him back in the day
Those engines are very popular for conversion to gas for racing, especially in classes that require a cast iron crankshaft. For gas use the block and crank are pretty much indestructible.
Back in the mid 80's, we opened a shop specializing in these. staffed mostly by diesel college graduates and teachers. Wound up fixing allot of dealer mistakes and kept 10's of happy customers humming down Cleveland highways. Hack dealer mechanics, with little to no knowledge of diesels, was just another nail in the coffin. Yes, the DX was much better, albeit, with it's fair share of issues. We had outside sales and professional customers, getting in excess of 25mpg. They really enjoyed them.Thanks for sharing.JTOrlando, Fl
jakespeed63
You must have went to OTC,it’s called now , right off superior.
Class mt -53 here haha
Those vehicles might be still on the road?
MrHillfolk
I went to NBC Tech in Lima. Others were from downtown Cleveland school
I remember a shop in Cleveland W 110 & Lorain Ave or so that as I recall would switch out these Diesels with their gasoline counterparts.
So what where the dealer mistakes You ran into? What issues did You deal with on the d blocks what got better with dx engine and what problems did the dx still have? How did you set the pump timing just curious
I just got out of college during this debacle and a co-worker had bought an Olds station wagon. I don’t remember the details, but he was not amused.
I had two Delta 88s with diesels. Loved em! Being in Wisconsin, had to have them plugged in, in the winter... lol! Block heaters.
Shout out from Iowa. Dad had a 82 Toronado and it was nice and cozy plugged in inside the garage at night. Get in and it would start right up and be nice and warm instantly. We treated our diesel right and it always treated us good. PS that Toro had the worlds best heater, it could be -20 and you would be running it on low.
They needed water/fuel separator but GM cheaped out and decided not to have it.
They had TTY head bolts that no one really knew about.
They were rushed into production.
By 1981 they had all the bugs worked out with the DX engine but it was too late.
We converted a lot of them over to gas and were quite powerful with the flat top pistons and roller cams
that explains why my uncles truck is sill running, his is a 81 or 82. he was a truck driver all of his life too so he treated it like a deisel, and alot of people didnt.
How much work to convert diesel. To gas? Thank u!
I put a quart size fuel filter with a sediment bowl on the firewall .. The tiny canister fuel filter on the back of the injection pump was a joke and hard to reach to service..
I plan TO put that fuel filter on a fork lift I have that has a glass type water separator that wants to leak
Isn't that a surprise.
We o ringed the heads , and used headstuds , worked wonders.
I bought a cutlass diesel and on the highway towing my boat it got 30 MPG amazing
I had a 1982 Malibu wagon with a 5.7 diesel and used to pull a boat up to northern Canada fishing in the 90s, and got 30 mpg. Never failed me. I loved that car.
ottopuppy did the piston explode out the oil pan? I heard all sorts of crazy catastrophic failure stories
@@davidjames666 no it ran fine for me , sold it to my friend and he
Put unleaded in it and then the problems started.
Somthing nobody talks about is the injector pump had a plastic part
In it , it would fail after time.
ottopuppy yup. Had an 80 Cutlass. 30 mpg . Incredible for the time.
ShieldArc200 no you didn’t 🤣😂 not with 205 ibft of torque
Brother had a few Diesel Cutlass's. Uncle had a junkyard. So he rounded up some cores. Magnafluxed some blocks and Cy heads. Found a few sets crack free. Built an O-ringed cy head 350. Improved oiling system and balanced lower end assembly. Got over 30 mpg and lasted through a few bodies. They definitely had quite the heater. I went the other direction with some 68-71 caddy 472/500s in my Cutlass. The simplicity of working on GM cars though.
I repaired quite a few of these engines back in the day, the best trick I used on broken head bolts was to drill the head bolt hole out to 9/16 inch and replace the 1/2 inch head bolt with a head bolt from a 429 ford engine after tapping the block for the ford thread size. Never had a problem after this fix.
Right on, someone who knows what they're doing.
A diesel v8 Short block is great to convert to gasoline and cram a bunch of nitrous into. because they are quite stout.
I had a friend in the 80's who would slap on a set of gas heads, intake manifold and carb, pop in a distributor and away she went.
@@douglasscott5623 well youd need a lot more components than that
@@douglasscott5623 many got done that way, small block chevy diesel, bad idea
DX block. These were thicker blocks and are sought after for converting to gas and building up. Tough blocks and I think they even had a higher nickel content.
@@skippythetownie3123 that's the only reason I clicked on this, to see if anyone mentioned the only upside to these engines, reusing them lol.
I had a Caprice classic diesel with 100K . I did another 200K without major problems, I liked it.
I owned several 6.2 diesel Suburbans during this time frame. 25 mpg and 300k miles each. Reliable and indestructible motor.
Your's was a Detroit Diesel diesel engine, designed and built by those with diesel experience.
I had a few of these. Really awesome engines. Some people complain about them but you can only lead a horse to water, if it dies from incompetence, that's on the horse.
I worked at a Chevy/Olds dealer in the early 80's. We converted a lot of them back to gas by swapping the heads, manifolds, etc. Great engine then!
That is genius. I assume the block was truly the same then?
No you didn't diesel pistons dont function properly on a gas engine
@@coltonstevens1 not even close
@super pickle I don't think he is a liar. I did some more research and heard of other people doing this too.
Buddy of mine still has his grandparent's 1982 Malibu Classic Estate Wagon complete with original 5.7 diesel and every factory option including fake woodgrain trim inside and out.
My brother had a 82 or 84 full size Blazer 4x4 with the 6.2. The thing was pretty much gutless due to being naturally aspirated but got about 30-35 mpg on the highway with the 700-R4 trans. We drove from Las Vegas to Pamona CA and drove around all weekend (650-700 miles)and back round trip on 1 tank of diesel..
My grandpa has a 1983 Cadillac Fleetwood with a diesel engine and a 1982 Chevy caprice classic with a diesel engine and they both run fine
I had a 1980 olds delta 98 royale with this engine. I LOVED this car and this engine. I could chirp the tires on take off and got 25-32 mpg. I put 289,000 miles on it with no problems. I wish I still had it today.
You just can't beat the off idle torque of a high compression diesel!!
Sam Cluff ... "high compression diesel" is a redundancy.
@@Sams88990 - ever driven a 455 olds? 510 ft/lb, smooth as silk...anyone who ever grew up driving a bigblock car will forever miss the massive low end torque that effortlessly nailed you to the seat without breaking a sweat... from gas station to gas station :)
@@JW...-oj5iw in the world of diesel 22.5 is high, where as 16.5-18.5 is more common for turbo applications. When it comes to off the line torque, the high compression motor has the cylinder pressure of a spooled up low compression diesel, and has the low end torque to show for it. The low compression diesel must spool before it has the same torque.
@@timc2219 my grandpa was a 454, th400/4l80 that's all he towed with until he got a 7.3 psd. It's sad to see that tall deck monsters like the 455 aren't being made anymore...
When I was in 8th grade our neighbors got a 1983 Buick diesel. It was a beautiful car. I can't remember if it was an Electra or a Park Avenue. Something happened and they were driving a 1984 Buick Park Avenue with a gas engine in 1984. I never heard the offical story of why they traded so soon. Later on they got some kind of front wheel drive Buick, and the wheel came off of the car while they were driving down the road. They got a Lincoln Towncar after all of that.
@Jwad In the 1970s we had an Oldsmobile, and later a Buick. They were good cars. My dad was a Ford mechanic in the 1960s. We always had a Ford truck. During the recession and gas price hike in 1981, my dad found a great deal on a used Lincoln and he loved that car. In the 1980s as a teen, my first car was 1978 Monte Carlo. My sister had a 1980 T-Bird. In some ways, I liked my GM car better. I personally think that GM cars are a little better in the snow and ride better. I now drive a Ford and my sister has all GM vehicles. GM cars are OK but the diesel engines of that period were a bad deal. I guess they have found ways to work out the problems as some of the GM diesels are still around. Although I would not want to ever buy one. I will drive a Ford or a Chevy (GM). I'm not too big on Chrysler products. I would get a Toyota before I would get a Chrysler. I would buy an American made Toyota. They help my local economy and my job is connected to Toyota making cars here in the States.
@@flilguy I love joking about how the best cars in my family were made in the USA...
By the Marysville Ohio Honda assembly line.
@@skylinefever Yes I think it was the Reagan administration that worked out the trade deals. Most of the Toyotas you see on the road today were assembled in the states.
For years I have heard how horrible the GM Diesel was, but my experience was nothing but positive. I bought a Fully Loaded 1982 Bonneville Brougham in '86 for $550 bucks because the original owner got scared off the diesel. I knew it had the THD 200 so I was always easy on the accelerator, I let the glow plugs come on before I cranked it over, plugged in the block heater in the winter, and always kept the tank near full (which was easy because diesel was under a dollar back then) That Bonne has got to be the plushest, most comfortable car I ever had, and I never had a bit of trouble with it in the few years I owned it. Sadly, it got hit by a drunk while parked at the curb, but I only have good memories of that Pontiac...
This is a good explanation of what happened. I remember when GM came out with these and they were basically using the original gas powered 350 engine block and putting different heads on them to make them into diesel engines. The blocks were not designed for the high compression and gave nothing but trouble. In addition, they had to have 2 batteries to turn them over since the engines had such high compression. People were either getting rid of their cars or they were finding used gas engines and replacing the diesel engines with gas ones.
Not only was the block too weak, 4 head bolts per cylinder is not adequate for a diesel. The 260 V6 diesel was designed as a diesel from the beginning.
In 1983 I bought a 1981 olds delta 88 2 door with the 350 diesel motor. I drove about 30,000 miles a year for about 5 years. I never had 1 problem of any sort with that motor. In the dead of winter I ran an extension cord from my hotel room down to the engine block heater. All I can say is I changed the filters as recommended (that wiped out the savings from the great mpg), but I swear I never had any problem with it. When I finally decided to trade it in on a newer car -NO ONE would take it in trade. That always puzzled me as I wondered why - until I found this. I finally sold it to a salvage yard for a couple hundred dollars - but the motor was still running fine. Seems like I got the 1 "good motor" they built.
We had a few of these kicking around as i was a kid, we had some issues but not to the level of any discussions mentioned today. I think it is away to trash the diesel market today. I run diesel to this day a ford 6.9 (2) and a 6.2.
There are cases of some that gave absolutely no trouble. And they have been a reason? Some speculated that it could have been in the metal? Ideas were floating about parts being made in Canada, U.S., Mexico etc. it was rumored that the Canadian parts were higher quality. (heads, blocks other parts etc.) better surfaced block decks, matching heads, stronger metals in the head bolts. People and mechanics were checking serial numbers on parts etc. could have been manufacturing flaws? Could have been good Operator habits and behaviors? Using block heaters? Not holding the accelerator pedal to the floor popping head gaskets up hill with the A/C running? Maybe some people installed a water in fuel separator etc. Maybe some people let the engine warm up warm before pulling out and stomping on the pedal cold a high speed? That has always been a mystery ??? Why some engines lasted longer than others?? But, you're right. Some did last longer than others. Everyone wanted to know why?
@@thethirdgeneration1738 , bare in mind this was a turning point for us. Theirs things didnt go well they did get better in later production. They didnt put the time in to manufacturing as the gentalman below it wasnt ready. Now their is some good diesels available. Errors we learned tge garbage that is being shoved down our throats electronics takes away from the diesels. Over look that their is some good ones. Chevette was gm they used a 4 cyl isuzu. That was a neat engine. However, the overhead cam was configured wrong.
mchl8 yes, I remember those 4 cylinder diesels in those. I wondered about those. I was suspecting those pretty good. Glad to hear you say that.
Do you also remember the 4.3L Diesels they put in the olds cutlasses, those were 6 cylinders. Those were a bit better too. Most people forget about those. Parts are getting hard to find for those as with also the 5.7L. No one has mentioned that here yet. Parts are getting hard to find !
@@thethirdgeneration1738 , yes i do recall the 4.3 diesel v 6. Sounded different.i or we never owned 1. Ive seen n heard 1. The isuzu engine that was used in the chevette , the head was sculptured the can was ankored by by eyelets (loops) casted in the head.retained by bolts on 1 end, They were pron to crack that is the head basicly. But a good engine.
I listened to a GM engineer who worked on the engine (GM fired him as a result of his criticisms of their design). He said that they needed a whole new block owing to the higher compression. They used a gasoline block which had much smaller main bearings than what a Diesel engine has. They wouldn't listen and fired him instead. He listed all the problems which were too many for me to remember.
It's not a gas block. It has way thicker bores and main bracing. The nickel content is also higher. The mount for the injection pump is cast into the block making it one of a kind. You can use the block converted to gas, but the other way around wouldn't last a trip around the block at 22.5:1. When converted to run on gas, you can take an 1/8 inch out of the bores and be safe. Some people use the block for gas performance builds due to it's strength.
Your statement is just wrong on too many levels to talk about. I was NOT a converted gas engine. It was seriously heavier, stouter, and although there were a few cosmetic parts that interchanged, the crank, balancer, rods, pins, etc., were very much different. It's these falsehoods that hang a black drapery over an engine that never really had a chance for reasons that were otherwise.
Joe Vreeland ...Maybe the first version? Anyway, I remember the engineer discussing it on a talk show. Blame him.
@@Sams88990 GM even said as much in literature about the design of the 350 diesel:
"ALL OF THE MAJOR PARTS: BLOCK, CRANKSHAFT, RODS, PISTONS AND LIFTERS HAVE BEEN STRENGTHENED TO HANDLE THE HIGHER COMPRESSION RATIO."
I had a 79 caddy with the 5.7 diesel. I loved that car and I didn’t think the power was too bad however I could never get the thing started even on a hot summers day, injectors rebuilt, new glow plugs, new relay, wiring diagnoses and checked out good, injection pump bench tested came out good, new batteries new starter, compression and timing was perfect still this thing would only start in the cold with a block heater. The gas mileage was phenomenal though in such a big car and it was cool to roll up in a caddy that was chugging along and blowing black smoke out the back lol had an old man scream his head off with me as I was pumping diesel into it thinking I was a “foolish millennial” as I recall him saying. The look on his face when I pointed to the diesel badge and hopped in and cranked up my clanky land yacht and slowly accelerated away was priceless 😂😂😂
I remember the headaches I experienced w/ this engine in a GMC P/U. I towed a boat for someone and blew both head gaskets. I repaired the damage and kept driving that truck until a head cracked - I was over the "diesel" craze that was just opening up. Sad that that engine had to be my first venture into diesel engines, 'cause they sure make some nice and(fairly) quiet diesels today. Couldn't understand why Olds would make such a piece of junk, but as your video explained, they just shot themselves in the foot, metaphorically, in a rush to market.
Never owned these cars, but was able to drive them for long term tests. If I hijacked the content, sorry about that.
GM usually puts out a crappy car first, then improves it as they go, only to discontinue the model a few years in.
Fiero. Had the iron duke and Chevette front suspension. Then made it marginally better with the 2.8 V6. By the time
it was a good-enough car, the Japanese had already made a better version with the MR2, sealing the Fiero's fate.
Volt. The car was confusing to operate. Strange *music* and light shows upon starting. Not very user friendly at all.
Saturn. Plastic junk. Ads selling them always put in "No rust on the body." Ya. It's all underneath.
Chevy Cruze. Uncomfortable seats for trips, not much room to get in easily, heater controls placed too low
and bumped by your knees, you could change the fan speed and heat settings with your kneecaps. The redesigned Cruz
looked more like a Honda Civic, was more comfortable and the heater controls were moved up and out of the way like
a normal car. The heater control was on the right and the fan speed on the left in the final days of the redesign. But
by that time, nobody stayed around for the ride. The Lordstown, Ohio plant rolled the last Cruze off the line on
March 6, 2019. A lot of times, GM is their own worst enemy.
Typically, the last year before were canceled was the year all the fixes were in place.
I have a Saturn ion gen 2 ,it's the best car I've ever had, after gm fixed the plastic pump issues, on New year's day 2020,I hit a bad snow storm ended up rolling 3 times into a ditch, rolled it back over started and have drove it ever since, only had to replace the windshield and passenger window, awesome car
I was a victim of the GM diesel in 1982. At about 5,000 miles, the engine literally began to destroy itself. All brackets for the A/C and the alternator failed sending the compressor and alternator (at different times) into the radiator. The second time, GM refuses to replace the radiator stating the bracket failure was 'my fault.' At 6,000 miles, the head gaskets failed and then the fuel injectors failed. The dealership became very difficult, aggressive and bombastic towards me.
I stopped buying GM cars and trucks for for over 40 years. GM is the WORST.
Interesting story. Around that same time a colleague of my dads at work bought a Mazda rotary engine car, he foolishly overheated it after losing coolant and then dumped cold water in it while it was hot cracking the block. Mazda installed a new engine for him FREE as they were doing everything they could to get respect in the US market. What a contrast in reactions.
@@Mrbfgray that's cool I've never liked the low torque output of rotory but it was fairly economic instead of pistons on the cam make the cam a piston fairly impressive
My 81' Cutlass diesel threw fan blades off at an alarming rate from the same vibration induced failure. Amazing how far they could travel after the fan shroud disintegrated from all of the prior impact damage.
That's insanity
I had the same treatment from Ford factory reps, GM isn't by itself. Today, GM makes top notch engines & transmissions. I'd put any of them up against a Ford or Dodge for reliability and durability.
I worked at an Olds dealer as a mechanic 79-83. The biggest problem IMO was that GM did not provide much if any training for the diesels. The only time I went to a diesel-specific class was when they had a recall on the injection pump. Contrary to many of the comments here, we really did not see that many problems. Most of the issues were with people who had never owned a diesel before. Running them out of fuel, putting gasoline in the tank, neglecting filter changes, etc, were much more the norm than mechanical failures. I might add it is NOT TRUE that this was a "converted gasoline engine". That is just BS. Olds used existing specs such as bore spacing and such, but the heads, pistons and especially the block and crank were MUCH heavier than the gas version and the block had 4-bolt mains, so you know even the gas casting molds were not used. I do agree tho that GM mishandled the PR aspect and killed the thing off about the time they had worked out all the kinks.
I was starting out as a mechanic in '91 and worked right next door to a used car lot in north Texas. I don't remember ever seeing one of those GM diesel cars in the shop with the original motor. Lots of 350s, 307s or a 403 swapped in though!
We had a 1980 regency 98 that was converted from a diesel to a 455 gas from the dealer
In cars most of them were smaller than 5.7 .. 5.7 was in Pickups .. I had an '81 GMC pickup got 18 MPG.. 130 HP my engine was a Targetmastger warranty replacement ..
It had glow plugs almost never needed to be plugged in at night .. My Injection pump failed had to have it rebuilt and turned up 8% . I had Headers on it too .. The Truck rusted out at 270,000 miles..
I was in an Air Force motor pool in
1981. We were issued a GM "test-vehicle" pickup.
Most of us drivers liked it. It had
great low-end torque, dual exhausts,
and a rumble that was much more
satisfying than our boring Chevy 250 Six pickups.
Normally one of the more sedate
drivers in the motor pool, I was
embarrassed when I accidentally peeled-out of
the main gate of the base during
an open mike from the gatehouse
to the motor pool dispatcher, lol.
That diesel pickup could really spin
the tires.
About 25 years ago I converted one to gas with some 403/425 parts ,455 heads and balanced it. It ran great. I still have one of these Diesel engines in my shed.
I still have my Grandpa's 78 olds station wagon diesel. Well it don't have the 5.7 it's a 6.6 Duramax now but it's still a registered as a diesel and he bought it brand new from the lot.
They needed the 6.5 diesel that went into Hummers.
They didn't have "issues", they had "PROBLEMS"!
I learned about this engine when I was in auto tech school back in 1973. So in 1980 I bought a Delta 88, assuming that, after all those years, they had developed the engine to be reliable. I couldn't have been more wrong. Head gaskets blew after 10k miles. Oil leakage everywhere. It burned a quart of motor oil every 600 miles. Ridiculously under powered. Froze up numerous times during our Chicago winters. That was the last GM car I bought for about 15 years.
That's what happens when the all might dollar is more important then QC
Funny gm is going down that same path again.
@@brandonplaisted8194 Guess they didn't learn how that brought them to bankruptcy in 2008. Obama should have let them go bankrupt, same goes for Chrysler and Ford.
@@darthgamer6080 ford didn't need bailout money. But this time I bet they will by converting there all time high seller mustang to an a 4 door electric car. Seriously who asked for a 4 door mustang with an electric motor. These car companies are just going by hype just like back in the late 90's early 00's when the electric car phase dies out they will go back to gas powered that's if any of them survive this time around. Because due to lithium recycling programs not up and operating the way they want it too. Because a majority of recycled materials like 85% goes right to the landfill regardless. Plus add in the fact that experts predict that if the world were to go all electric it would cripple the international grid and aslo with 10 to 20 yrs cause the lithium mines to tap out. Considering that they need those rare metals for not only the battery itself in the car but also the body and that just goes to show it will indeed cause an electric car bust eventually. Hopefully sooner rather then later because if it's later on it will be too late because all the fossil fuels will be phased out.
I love my 5.7 olds diesel! I still have one in a ‘82 delta 88. They are great motors if you keep the water outa the fuel and use arp head studs. I had one in my ‘76 vette for a few years.... complete with headers and sidepipes! I worked the heads over and turned up the pump. It ran great! The best part was people running out of gas stations screaming “stop”!
Great story, Robert. A diesel "car" at a diesel gas pump was a rare sight. Reminds me when auto-off headlights first appeared on the marketplace. People were always telling me to "turn your headlights off."
Stuart Bear nearly every time I filled up I had someone say something. People running out of the gas station! When I could, I would fill up at the trucker fuel island.... that got some great responses! The old motor really ran great. The only problem was that I ran out of gear.... it was wound pretty tight at 70. I think it would do 80 or so if you pushed it. It wasn’t that I was out of power, just out of gear with the th350. A transmission with an overdrive would have really been nice. I had planned on putting a couple turbos on it. I even had the turbos.... I had an oil cooler line come apart and it ended up trashing the crank. In went a small block.
I remember going on a test drive with my dad in a blue diesel malibu wagon back then. I remember it being very loud, taking it around the block once and him being like "nope". Ended up with a caprice wagon with a 305 instead.
GM sold a lot of 305's with soft camshafts. At 50K miles or less the cam lobes wore down.
Back in the early 80s we had trouble with the carb floatssoaking up with gasoline. The boss would say toss the carb and put on a holly. The speedometer gear would wear out in a short time. The replacement gear housings were steel and didn't wear out. originals were aluminum. Little nuisance things.
@@ralphwood5114 what does a speedo gear have to do with the 305 engine?
Good question just remembering the little problems I had with the new 82 Chevy pickup. The speedometer had some control of the engine. Took me awhile to figure why the 305 was giving me trouble. Might have been just in cruise control.
1st thing you saw when you popped the hood was two 12V batteries.
It was a hybrid
I ordered a GMC Suburban from the factory in 1993 to use as a towing vehicle for a 33' travel trailer. I wanted a diesel, but all GMC offered at the time was their 350 gas block converted to diesel, which only had a 6500 lb capacity. I ended up going with the 454 with a 4.10 rear and 10,000 capacity. It served me well for 12 years and three different RV's.
The acceleration of a non-turbocharged passenger car diesel from those days is downright dangerous! The Mercedes was no better in that regard. Getting on a highway and running out of on-ramp before building up speed to match that of the traffic was a freaking nightmare!
I owned a 1981 Olds Delta 88 Custom Cruiser that originally had the 5.7L diesel. That was swapped with a 403 and paired with a Pontiac Turbo 400 trans. The diesel VIN number made it exempt from emissions. ;)
@Wal Ford With such slow acceleration for the GM diesel engines of that era, it was a good thing the freeway/highway speed limits, in the US, in the 1980s was at 55 mph/89 kph. Imagine what it could be like with some highways posted speeds at 70 mph.
Try accelerating in Vegas traffic on the freeway in one of these lol..
ATribeCalledCookies6dotcom I Can Think Of A Lot Worse. Try LOS ANGELES AND SAN FERNANDO VALLEY!!
The Mercedes Turbo Diesels are actually decently peppy if you roll into them and don’t just punch them off the line.
Yes, the Turbo makes the difference; with the ultra high-compression of the diesel, a Turbocharger is an excellent match.
I have a Gas-powered, turbocharged Volvo 850 and have learned to let her shift into 2nd before stomping on the pedal.
20+ years ago, my boss had me drive his mid-90s Mercedes non-turbo diesel from Washington DC to Richmond VA. Getting onto the highway with that kind of acceleration was absolutely terrifying.
Just so happens...I was just talking about this subject today.
One thing that was not covered in this presentation I think is important was the fact that the failure of the design doomed the entire expected conversion to diesel in the American market forever.
In an article I read in the 70’s in Car and Driver. They predicted that diesels would grow to a major portion of the market within a number of years.
Never happened..and GM was the reason
Marcangelus1 the euros, they drive diesels. Thus I always thought it was bizarre that diesels was limited in the states? Specially for the amount of miles people drive. People don’t really need that that hp but they can always use some torque.
@Marcangelus1 That would be my first and best guess also, always follow the money
Diesels are much more suited to the United States than Europe. We drive much greater distances here. Hybrids are suited to Europe, where they don't drive like we do. Things are quite backward in that respect. With gas being very plentiful these days, it really doesn't matter too much, anyway.
Jim F
Because they didn’t have olds diesels to kill the market...they had Mercedes diesels...that worked
Good! Diesel fumes make me want to vomit. I am glad they never smoked out our streets like they did (and are now removing) in Europe.
i just saw an old couple driving thier diesel olds today... in kingman az
We rebuilt our own injections pumps.
Replaced the EDM ring.
With a water separator and excellent diesel fuel 60,000 miles.
Next engine was a 307 Oldsmobile gasoline out of a rear-ended wrecked Delta 88. Made a amazing car.
My brother had a fully-loaded Cutlass Supreme, that eventually failed; he sold it to our sister in Texas (from Michigan), and my dad had a shop sway the engine with a 403 TA engine with a Crane Fireball cam; the rear-end was still a 2.27:1, and the engine was such a torque-monster, it would break the motor mounts every time you floored it to pass, or take off.
Had the 350 Diesel V8 in an Oldsmobile Cutlass the '80's and had no problems...loved it.
Yep knew lots of GM diesel people, dad was one. No major problems other than a pump and injectors in 170-180K miles. People that knew how to run a diesel had way less problems than city people.
@@seththomas9105 Nobody in the cities had diesel experience? What dumb comment you frickin idiot.
All of my dads were great running driving cars ! From Oldsmobile , to the Buick ! Only guy in this area 25yrs ago that could rebuild the fuel pumps ! I still have 7 on the shelf , I know someone will need one day . Love ya dad RIP ..
Traded in a 1979 VW diesel Rabbit (worst lemon I have ever owned) for a 1980 Olds Cutlass diesel station wagon. Had a Racor fuel filter installed at purchase and never made the mistake of putting gasoline in the fuel tank. Always got 25 mpg around town and wife drove it for 111,000 miles with no engine problems. Only maintenance issue was trans repair at 85,000 miles. Sold the car for $500.00 when we moved to Germany. I guess we were lucky.
Loved my 78 custom cruiser, GM replaced motor in 84. After that. No problems except the fuel rail sold it with 320000 on the clock. 1st motor 79000
I loved my Olds Regency Diesel, I only let it go when the diesel fuel exceeded the gasoline prices.
you can thank baby Bush for that
My grandfather was a big shot with GM. He started out with GM in 1927. After being retired he bought a GM diesel and had a lot of problems. He sure raised heck with management. He knew a lot of em. He still had a tough time getting the car fixed. GM bean counters were a bad lot. There were other motors that would be rejected by the factory inspectors. The inspectors would go back to work the next day, see that the engine was gone, and find it had been put in a car. Eaglegards...
My aunt and uncle worked for Delco Remy in Anderson, Indiana until they retired. She was an inspector and would reject several parts throughout the day. The higher ups would tell her to pass them and stick them back on the line. She said she eventually began deliberately damaging them so they couldn't be sent to packaging and on to customers.
Had a '79 Cadillac Diesel Seville. Bought it from my dad in '82 @ 100K miles, put another 150K miles on it. Engine was reliable aside from throwing alternator belts. Because of the dual-battery setup, Cadillac had a giant alternator, driven by two belts. One belt would pop off at high rpm's, taking the second belt with it. Turned out to be a slightly-warped alternator shaft, so not the engine's fault.
Engine had glow plugs, which turned on for a few seconds before cranking. If the glow plugs failed (which they gradually did) the engine would't start immediately, which meant a huge slug of fuel in some cylinders, which meant a huge pressure spike in those cylinders when finally firing. At 250K miles the engine was blowing engine oil out the exhaust. Tearing down the engine revealed that several of the GIGANTIC head bolts had sheared from that pressure. So, again, not the engine's fault. All glow plugs needed to work. A circuit verifying this should have been designed into the system.
But that Seville model year was great--beautiful car. Yeah, with some diesel clatter, but Cadillac insulated the heck out of the engine compartment, so not bad. Mileage in the mid-20's.
But each bore was surrounded by only FOUR bolts. That is not enough for a diesel.
I was a mechanic, I looked at the engine and knowing what is required for a diesel engine to operate I told my relatives and any one who asked this engine is not the answer because engine block. Crank shaft and rods wouldn't be strong enough, because of the compression ratio needed for diesel operation. All they needed was consult the Detroit diesel division of General Motors and they would have saved themselves a lot of problems.
Yes, but the General didn't care how long it ran. They got their money on day one.
Good idea but poor execution. A successful diesel engine from GM could have been a very interesting shakeup to the US auto market in the 80s.
The success of their two stroke line proves they could have done so much better in the 80's if they had the engineering talent from the 1940's. Of course experts like that would have costed more money but clearly if you want quality you got to spend money and GM's constant failures proves it.
Bad idea and even less execution!
@@Wildstar40 Not complete failures... 305 gas engines from 1977 - 1993 are pretty great for longevity.
Austin Lucas my ol 305 had 778,000km before i sold it and never did anything other than tune ups and oil changes so i can say they are reliable for what the 305 is
as usual they took the cheap route and ruined what reputation they had left.
One of my friends mom had one of the second style v8 it failed miserably
No one does diesel like the Germans
I have three VW turbo diesel cars the oldest of which has 459 thousand miles and counting... now that's a well built machine
Vw is the worst brand
@@ernestopizano8406 everyone is entitled to their own opinion
Obviously yours is so overpowering you felt the need to share
Care to give a reason you don't like them?
@@johnmoser2689 hurt your feelings sorry.
@@ernestopizano8406 no not really you just didn't respond with any reason just a dislike directed to me about my comment so I thought I would inquire as to why you think Volkswagen is the worst brand
GM has always had some great Engineers and Designers, unfortunately, they also have some of the most Rabid Bean Counters in the world.
Great engineers and designers for their facilities.... however not very bright for vehicles
Thereby resulting in the great engineers and designers (what Peter DeLorenzo the Auto Extremist guy referrs to as the True Believers) either getting fired over "Philosophical Differences". quitting in disgust to otherwise getting run out of the company.
My dad bought an '80 cutlass with this engine. It broke TWO crank shafts... We finally dropped a small block 400 in that Cutlass and it was a BLAST to drive after that. I cannot count how many times I left a surprised Mustang or Camaro in the dust.
For years people called this a gas engine converted to diesel. That is just not true. It was a purpose built engine, but shared common tooling from the 350 gas engine to save on costs. Torque to yield head studs was one problem, they were made too weak for the high compression of this engine (about 20:1). Lack of a fuel/water separator did not help it. By the time the early 1980s came about with the proper fixes, it had dug itself its grave and made people very skiddish about buying diesels after that.
This is why GM asked their Detroit Diesel division to help with the next generation engines (6.2L and 6.5L indirect injection diesel engines).
Time after time, GM did exactly what you said they did with this horrific excuse of a engine, rushed it in R & D and made their customers do the testing.
It is mind boggling that they treated them that way. Look at their paint failures. Remember all the cars where their paint fell off? Especially the hard to stick on silver? It seemed like they had more bad paint then good. That would be a good topic for another episode.
Thanks for all your hard work.
Tesla does the same thing today, most of their cars are on their 3rd or 4th electric motor to reach 50,000 miles
(Posted by Rick Pickell) I remember hearing stories from my Father whom was GM mechanic for 25 years. I remember him saying these diesel conversions had too little of a head bolt pattern. I kept blowing head gaskets. Plus they tried to up the compression but not enough to get the diesel power. Plus ring failure was common.
Yes, true 30 mpg was what I got with my full size car that had a 22 gallon tank, so it had a 660 mile range.
Ours had a 28 gallon tank; it was a Delta 88.
a 6.2 diesel gets just shy of 30 mpg in a full size conversion van. it was the right idea but only half assed. The 5.7 diesel should have been great
Oh how times have changed.
It’s pretty amazing what computer controlled common rail fuel injection, and variable geometry after cooled turbochargers have done to the diesel industry.
I Remember turning wrenches on these. The first step to recover is to admit you had a problem..
The olds diesel was almost magnificent, except for a few major boneheaded mistakes:
1. Earlier ones (I believe) had cast cranks instead of forged. I had not seen any broken cranks, but heard about them.
2. They used the wrong base engine; the olds with a mere 10 head bolts on each bank. Blowing head gaskets was probably the biggest problem with the olds 350 diesel.
3. The injection pump wasn't as good as people claim. Everyone knows about the problems with cars not having a good water separator, but you don't need water or dirt in the fuel for this pump to die. Happily they are affordable to rebuild and not so much work to remove from the engine. Unrelated but interesting is the injection pump had no governor giving the olds diesel drivability similar to a gas engine. A fair bit of horsepower can be gotten out of a stock olds diesel by letting it spin up.
4. The water pumps (on at least some models) had small impeller blades. presumably this was to reduce the water pressure on the head gasket, but it created a problem where the thermostat couldn't seep by enough water when closed to sense the water temperature. On some specimens, the temperature could get pretty high until the thermostat starts to open when it gets hit with hot water, then BAM - it slams open and the hot water in the engine trades places with the cold water in the radiator then SLAMS shut again to start the cycle all over again. The fix is to drill a small hole in the thermostat.
5. The TH350C transmission had a lockup converter (on my 1981 version, but not on a '78 that I worked on) that wasn't suited for the diesel engine. A transmission rebuild is likely at a young age, with no hard-parts damage. Deleting the lockup converter is easy and solves the problem.
Other than all that, the olds diesel could have been legendary in a good way.