I wish we had seen this on the actual show. Michelle Gomez and Alex Kingston both have this presence and energy to them that deserved more than an audio. I can literally close my eyes and see them talking
It's not an audiobook... it's a full voiced and storied play. There are villians Heroes And Missy right in the middle All voiced - it's just LIKE an episode of the story - only it can actual be more adult and a bit darker... and a tiny bit sexy ;)
Ahhhh, River talking about regeneration. I keep hoping one day big finish will do more alternative or aborted timeline stories with River where she goes toe to toe with what could have been her next regeneration. To be specific meeting a version of herself who kept all her lives and regenerated to her next form and wreaked havoc in her timeline "living it up" till she had to escape to main timeline
@@emeraldkoala2 yeah I suppose River encountering an alternative self would be kind of like that. But I'm vaguely certain the relationship would be different from the Valeyard or Lumiat. Cause Doctor and Valeyard seems seems to be mainly enmity, and Master/Missy and Lumiat is more like "what is.......this?!?!?!?! Ew!!!!". I would assume River's opinion on a chaotic-evil version of herself would be very mixed feelings, because they'd have a lot in common it's just that one goes that tiny bit too far because whilst River is also chaotic she's ultimately good when push comes to shoved into a corner. But hey these are just my fanservice wish listings so who knows what we'd actually get
This isn’t a shot at Michelle Gomez by any means but you can tell by far who is the better radio actor. Alex Kingston really sounds like she’s trudging through water or wherever they’re meant to be with deep breaths and panted speech and then when Missy speaks it sounds like she’s just sitting down conversing
To be fair, I can also just see that being how Missy trudges through water. When her and Clara are in the Daleks sewers she still puts a lot of effort in being poised and unbothered.
It's an interesting question though, why in all three cases we've seen, when a timelord regenerates into another biological sex, they always decide to change to a different gender, almost immediantly. Makes you wonder if perhaps timelords don't have a different idea of gender than us and it's just the translation circuit in the TARDIS that causes us to hear the pronouns in a way we would understand
if the General is any indication, they have largely the same idea on biology and gender that we do, only difference being that the concept of regeneration means theres no real disconnect if they end up speaking of their former selves as a different gender/pronoun and that it renders gender-based sexuality moot (since your husband could die and regenerate into your wife)
Timelords definitely have distinctions between the two sexes. There are time lords, time ladies, female shebogans, male shebogans. Timelords that have always been male and always will be, timelords that have always been female and always will be and then ones like the Doctor and the Master who may sometimes switch gender. So the words, he/him she/her etc are definitely a thing in time lord society
There's a fan theory that suggests Regeneration has a kind of subtle self brainwashing built into it. The purpose of this (in the theory) is to ensure that the Time Lord/Time Lady accepts their new body without issue (since even without gender swapping, a full body transformation with even things like voice and eyes changing would be highly disorienting to a human) regardless of if they get younger, older, taller, smaller, swap skin colour or indeed swap gender. This is also proposed to be the reason that when multiple incarnations of the same Time Lord encounter one another, they can see the flaws of their other versions, but not their own. The process encourages each version to see themselves as the best version, to further push acceptance of their new form.
@@obiwankenobi687 Yeah, I mean, this idea of mine definitely wasn't considered by the writers in their writing. It would just make sense to me, and is a cool idea. Plus it wouldn't be the first time doctor who was inconsistent
She regenerated twice before assuming the form we know her best in, once in Day of the Moon and once in Let's Kill Hitler. It was only after that that she sacrificed her remaining regenerations.
@Jonathan Clarcq As Wonderland Pirate said above, she's referring to her two previous incarnations. She regenerated from young Melody to Mels in "Day of the Moon" and from Mels to River in "Let's Kill Hitler", remember? .
To everyone who says "Oh Dr who is terrible because of all the implicit/explicit insults they hurtle towards men.": Pull your head out of your arse. Let me spell this out for you: DR WHO IS A COMEDY! Pretty much nothing in Dr Who is mature or sensible, and it's not meant to be taken that way, and if you want proof of that listen to their tones of voice. And if there are some people who think that those things should be taken seriously, argue with them, not the show. Yes the doctor is by the doctor's own admission daft, rude, mad and idiotic, and on many levels so are most of the people who interact with him/her for long periods of time. The making jokes at men, is just poking fun at stereotypes and mocking people who take gender differences too seriously. The views of the characters are not meant to be taken seriously and do not necessarily represent the views of the writers. So just laugh it off.
Dalek Emperor19 I feel like you’re completely missing the point. Literally EVERY incarnation of the Doctor thought their regeneration was the best thing since sliced bread. 12 literally called every other regeneration a “false” start when talking to 1. The timelords seem to have a trait where they take a LOT of pride in their current regeneration, which makes sense because otherwise they’d commit suicide for not liking the new body. If they changed sex and it was brought up of course they’d say it was better just like with any other regeneration. The real problem with 13 is how inconsistent her character is on that point. In the series 11 episode “Witchfinder”(? Honestly forgot the name; very boring all of series 11) she complained about being a woman (very out of character with every other regeneration) and then in spyfall in takes pride in it; doesn’t really make much sense character wise, but that’s just bad writing. Edit: As far as how River asked it here, I’d just say relisten to it. It sounded to me like She was looking for the nicest way to ask a very sensitive and personal question. There was a bit of nervousness and hesitation in the start of that sentence.
@@mpg272727 funny how if the Master was originally a female and then regenerated into a male and then said this there would have been uproars but because it’s a female saying it there’s no issue. It’s nothing to do with male ego. It’s to do with the fact that feminism in media nowadays his hypocritical of the very foundation of which it was built
I wish we had seen this on the actual show. Michelle Gomez and Alex Kingston both have this presence and energy to them that deserved more than an audio. I can literally close my eyes and see them talking
Crazy VillainFan it’s not an audiobook
It's not an audiobook... it's a full voiced and storied play.
There are villians
Heroes
And Missy right in the middle
All voiced - it's just LIKE an episode of the story - only it can actual be more adult and a bit darker... and a tiny bit sexy ;)
I swear to god I just randomly clicked on the video and I could see Missy and River whole scene movement and gestures lol
@@2Scribble how tf could a audio drama be sexy?
@@joob5574 Imagination, it is a required skill.
Geez now I have to get it cuz I really want to hear more of River and Missy interacting
You should, it’s amazing!
Same haha
It's a good one!
Ahhhh, River talking about regeneration. I keep hoping one day big finish will do more alternative or aborted timeline stories with River where she goes toe to toe with what could have been her next regeneration. To be specific meeting a version of herself who kept all her lives and regenerated to her next form and wreaked havoc in her timeline "living it up" till she had to escape to main timeline
So the alternative River would be sort of like her version of the Valeyard? I'd pay to listen to that.
@@emeraldkoala2 yeah I suppose River encountering an alternative self would be kind of like that. But I'm vaguely certain the relationship would be different from the Valeyard or Lumiat. Cause Doctor and Valeyard seems seems to be mainly enmity, and Master/Missy and Lumiat is more like "what is.......this?!?!?!?! Ew!!!!". I would assume River's opinion on a chaotic-evil version of herself would be very mixed feelings, because they'd have a lot in common it's just that one goes that tiny bit too far because whilst River is also chaotic she's ultimately good when push comes to shoved into a corner.
But hey these are just my fanservice wish listings so who knows what we'd actually get
First time seeing this duo and would love to see more on screen
This isn’t a shot at Michelle Gomez by any means but you can tell by far who is the better radio actor. Alex Kingston really sounds like she’s trudging through water or wherever they’re meant to be with deep breaths and panted speech and then when Missy speaks it sounds like she’s just sitting down conversing
To be fair, I can also just see that being how Missy trudges through water. When her and Clara are in the Daleks sewers she still puts a lot of effort in being poised and unbothered.
It's an interesting question though, why in all three cases we've seen, when a timelord regenerates into another biological sex, they always decide to change to a different gender, almost immediantly. Makes you wonder if perhaps timelords don't have a different idea of gender than us and it's just the translation circuit in the TARDIS that causes us to hear the pronouns in a way we would understand
if the General is any indication, they have largely the same idea on biology and gender that we do, only difference being that the concept of regeneration means theres no real disconnect if they end up speaking of their former selves as a different gender/pronoun and that it renders gender-based sexuality moot (since your husband could die and regenerate into your wife)
Timelords definitely have distinctions between the two sexes. There are time lords, time ladies, female shebogans, male shebogans. Timelords that have always been male and always will be, timelords that have always been female and always will be and then ones like the Doctor and the Master who may sometimes switch gender. So the words, he/him she/her etc are definitely a thing in time lord society
There's a fan theory that suggests Regeneration has a kind of subtle self brainwashing built into it. The purpose of this (in the theory) is to ensure that the Time Lord/Time Lady accepts their new body without issue (since even without gender swapping, a full body transformation with even things like voice and eyes changing would be highly disorienting to a human) regardless of if they get younger, older, taller, smaller, swap skin colour or indeed swap gender.
This is also proposed to be the reason that when multiple incarnations of the same Time Lord encounter one another, they can see the flaws of their other versions, but not their own. The process encourages each version to see themselves as the best version, to further push acceptance of their new form.
@@obiwankenobi687 Yeah, I mean, this idea of mine definitely wasn't considered by the writers in their writing. It would just make sense to me, and is a cool idea. Plus it wouldn't be the first time doctor who was inconsistent
Yes when they change gender they do in fact change gender.
Ah the Doctors wife and the Doctors side chick. They must have lot of fun in the TARDIS.
They made a story about River and Missy and they seriously called it “The Bekdel Test”?
That is a truly terrible joke.
I see you're using terrible in the archaic form to mean great.
.
I won't spoil the story, but the bechdel test as a concept, does factor into the plot
Well, at least they are talking about something other than a man. XD
Oh this would be amazing
Wait a minute River regenerated? I thought she used all her regenerations to heal the Doctor (In Let's Kill Hitler)????
She regenerated twice before assuming the form we know her best in, once in Day of the Moon and once in Let's Kill Hitler. It was only after that that she sacrificed her remaining regenerations.
@@WonderlandPirate Oh yes that is true. It has been so long I forgot about those 2 regenerations. Thanks
@@WonderlandPirate she probably regenerated more than twice because she was acting like it was something normal "the first" time
@Jonathan Clarcq As Wonderland Pirate said above, she's referring to her two previous incarnations. She regenerated from young Melody to Mels in "Day of the Moon" and from Mels to River in "Let's Kill Hitler", remember?
.
Upgrade is always a bad thing in doctor who so just like the joker "poor choice of words"
To everyone who says "Oh Dr who is terrible because of all the implicit/explicit insults they hurtle towards men.": Pull your head out of your arse.
Let me spell this out for you: DR WHO IS A COMEDY!
Pretty much nothing in Dr Who is mature or sensible, and it's not meant to be taken that way, and if you want proof of that listen to their tones of voice.
And if there are some people who think that those things should be taken seriously, argue with them, not the show.
Yes the doctor is by the doctor's own admission daft, rude, mad and idiotic, and on many levels so are most of the people who interact with him/her for long periods of time. The making jokes at men, is just poking fun at stereotypes and mocking people who take gender differences too seriously.
The views of the characters are not meant to be taken seriously and do not necessarily represent the views of the writers.
So just laugh it off.
Missy basically gets what being transgender is.
Already way better than Jodie
Why?
Seriously. “Upgrade your gender”? Jesus Christ.
It's a joke, buddy. Don't overthink it.
A. Diaz but the thing is it isn’t portrayed as a joke. It’s done completely straight and seriously. Just like they did in Spyfall.
Dalek Emperor19 I feel like you’re completely missing the point. Literally EVERY incarnation of the Doctor thought their regeneration was the best thing since sliced bread. 12 literally called every other regeneration a “false” start when talking to 1. The timelords seem to have a trait where they take a LOT of pride in their current regeneration, which makes sense because otherwise they’d commit suicide for not liking the new body. If they changed sex and it was brought up of course they’d say it was better just like with any other regeneration. The real problem with 13 is how inconsistent her character is on that point. In the series 11 episode “Witchfinder”(? Honestly forgot the name; very boring all of series 11) she complained about being a woman (very out of character with every other regeneration) and then in spyfall in takes pride in it; doesn’t really make much sense character wise, but that’s just bad writing.
Edit: As far as how River asked it here, I’d just say relisten to it. It sounded to me like She was looking for the nicest way to ask a very sensitive and personal question. There was a bit of nervousness and hesitation in the start of that sentence.
Ah the fragile male ego once again proving how pathetic it is
@@mpg272727 funny how if the Master was originally a female and then regenerated into a male and then said this there would have been uproars but because it’s a female saying it there’s no issue. It’s nothing to do with male ego. It’s to do with the fact that feminism in media nowadays his hypocritical of the very foundation of which it was built
Horrible writting tho.