I genuinely appreciate your attitude towards game reviews. It’s always “this is not for me” and “this may not be for you” and never “this game is garbage”
Well the thing is some games are actually bad, it just so happens in today's time you can't say that because the truth hurts. You can like a bad game, probably either because you're a big fan of the genre or the theme, that being said usually you can call a game bad when there's just much better out there or the concept just doesn't work. And there's plenty of games like that, take the dark souls board game for instance. It's mediocre at best but it's 3 times as expensive as other games that are better in it's genre, that being said many souls fanboys will still defend it despite it being bad to mediocre in all aspects.
No Pun Included is a polarising channel. If they hate something its probably good. I find anyone putting a game into a bin as being probably not worth watching. Remember that conversation about negativity? I'm from the UK, and I see NPI as more about how to be smug and pompous rather than review something. SU&SD do the same thing, but maintain a reviewers opinion.
I use to like it years ago before I got into gaming because I liked the building up my character, but then I found people being mad after the game too much, so I haven't played it in years.
I always find the bad designs that inexplicably lots of people love much more interesting than the near perfect designs that aren’t the taste of a few people who get them because they’re popular.
These seem to fall into a couple of broad categories: games that you* like that I* don't want to play and games that you* like that someone thinks you* are a bad person for playing. For the former, the reasons for liking and disliking games are legion. I have absolutely no interest in playing Scrabble, but for some people it's the core of their boardgaming. Similar things apply to Diplomacy, Advanced Squad Leader, Poker, Magic: the Gathering, Dungeons and Dragons, Football (whichever code), Ticket to Ride, .... De gustibus non est disputandum. Anyone who can't figure out that basic fact of life really needs to work on empathy. For the second, the latest woke-ist clamor is in no way different from the Satanic Panic around D&D, the earlier backlash against wargames, the United States Senate Subcommittee on Juvenile Delinquincy's "investigation" of comic books, or any other moral panic you wish to name. For me, if I get any of that sort of response when I am playing a game, the most polite response that will be elicited will be "Mind your own business". If I'm not in an especially charitable mood, the response will be ... more blunt. It's not difficult to come up with some reason to find a game offensive. In some games your goal is to kill sentients, in others your goal is to kill and eat animals, in others your goal is to dominate people you disagree with, in others your goal is to grab as much of a small pot of resources as you can, in others you gamble, in others you profit by usury, in others you use magic or consort with demons ... I could go on ad infinitum. Instead of spending your effort on disapproval of what makes others happy, how about trying to find something that makes you happy. And if the thing that makes you happy is making others unhappy, let's just say that the Golden Rule has a corollary: I assume that the way you treat others is indicative of the way that you wish to be treated and will do my best to accommodate that wish. Tolerance does not require approval, and in fact implies pretty much the opposite of approval. (If you approve, you don't need to exercise tolerance.) If you want tolerance for your quirks, you would do well to exercise tolerance for the quirks of others. * Using "you" and "I" as markers for two opposing camps large enough to notice.
Puerto Rico would be polarizing regardless of the theme. It's polarizing to me because I reject games that are so clearly weighted towards the veteran player. It has a serious barrier to entry for that reason and therefore is one of those games where the people who love it REALLY love it while many new players are driven away by its almost grognard kind of reputation.
Backing up what others have said, Jamey Stegmaier is just such a positive part of the hobby and board game industry that he engenders good will amongst board gamers. His commitment to outstanding customer service when companies like Asmodee put out policies of not replacing broken or missing components is amazing and commendable. For me, I've found that I enjoy a high majority of his games and genuinely look forward to news of upcoming releases from Stonemaier games. Some may not be the hits that Viticulture or Tapestry are ,for me, but at the end of the day I'm supporting someone who genuinely loves the hobby and is committed to providing the best experience possible to his customers.
I understand that Terraforming Mars is not for everyone. You really have to like the theme (science, space, science-fiction), have enough patience and time (~4h) and a tolerance for some luck of the draw. What makes Terraforming Mars so amazing in my opinion is not the engine building, but the theme and the dynamic with all those little and big things to compete for during the game including the unusual kind of area control. The mechanics are so great (drafting, milestones & awards, terraforming parameters as thresholds, 1 or 2 actions turn structure, triggered effects, ...). The art is not great but it's good and fitting.
I wrote a whole comment about your Puerto Rico segment and then RUclips ate it, so much for that! But I really appreciate how you tackled it, and as someone whose primary gaming group is mostly POC, I see firsthand that we're all bringing our background and experiences to our hobby time in some ways b/c that's simply "who we are," and different people are always going to have different baselines for what feels right to them. As for Marvel United, if people really want something crunchier, guess they could use the minis with crisis protocol rules?
I like the concept of App assisted games from a standpoint of simplifying bookkeeping. That said, I'd never really considered the religion aspect of apps as a barrier to a play. Thanks for that perspective.
I found out that I loved Terraforming Mars when I played the electronic version against AI, over and over again. What I found out I did _not_ love was what the game morphed into in my gaming club - a four hour "draft everything" slog with all expansions, where players desperately tried to play as many cards as they could while not increasing the parameters unless they had to.
While I despise Monopoly as a game, I disagree with the mindset of people following a route of refusing to acknowledge the game exists, while pushing towards the fun of the modern games of today. The fact of the matter is that if it weren't for Monopoly, board gaming today would probably be different, or even non-existent. So even if it's a bad game, it still deserves some respect for what it brought us years later.
I don't know but other people, but I'm not trying to pretend it doesn't exist. At the same time I do think it is a inferior game at least compared to what we have nowadays, and yet it's still the face of the genre. It would be a kin to whenever you talk about movies, someone Just assumed you were talking about some movie from the 1940s that represents the entire film industry.
Awaken Realms makes some really cool games. But they do desperately need a professional rule book writer. I think twice about backing anything from them until I get a chance to see their rule book first.
Well done! Interesting as always! Agreed on so many points. Wingspan is my least liked Stonemaier game I have played. Publishers could be an interesting topic as well. How they approach the customers, their strategies....
Some boardgames are puzzles, some boardgames are interactive. And they're both called boardgames. The people that love munchkin probably dislike wingspan.
Great pick on Kingdom Death Monster. The theme is insane, but usually whenever I bring up it up highly on a list, the main argument against it is "I don't want to assemble the minis."
I thought the game play was even more repetitive than Gloomhaven, I don't have it but I'm not gonna say I won't like it coz I completed Gloomhaven and Forgotten Circles lol
@@marduk3604 Good point there. I can definitely see the repetitiveness of early game quarries if you don’t have expansions. There’s definitely a game play loop, but I really enjoy the unique way the AI interacts with the players. It’s more than just, “ohhh this one attacks then moves!” I can’t complain either though since I’ve also completed Gloomhaven :P
Hopefully, we'll look back and appreciate that Puerto Rico helped forward a much needed conversation about how games portray certain aspects of history. Portrayal is not endorsement, but it is an opportunity to engage minority voices that provide much needed perspective that will challenge accepted dogma in a fairly monolithic industry. As for Wingspan, it didn't connect with me but I appreciate that many others have greatly enjoyed the base game and its expansions. Variety has given me the ability to say, "it's OK not to like this very popular game for reasons that are relevant to me". It's like the proverbial Harley Davidson of board games: "If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand." We're all lucky to game in a culture that offers something for everyone. Thanks for the video, Alex!
i kind of remember that part of the Kingdom Death Monster controversy was the price point. it's more acceptable now to pay 400-500$ for a board game, but back then, i rememeber plenty of people being astonished that a board game cost as much as the latest generation console!
I don’t mind light games if they still have strategy, plenty of player agency, are fun, and fast. If a light game doesn’t hit those I would rather play a card game like speed, cribbage, or Egyption rat screw.
It seems to me the controversy with Wingspan is some people think it’s amazing while others think it’s fine but vastly overrated, and like to point this out.
Agreed, Marvel United is a light, more family-oriented game... But... BUT, I find with the expansions, and ways that you can increase the difficulty (and there are many by removing cards from the player deck, to compounding expansion mechanics on top of each other!), this game can speak to light-hearted to serious gamers alike!
Etherfields is an amazing pick and should be alongside tainted grail. Both were lambasted by the susd/npi group. Any game that makes two top reviewers quit trying to understand the rules midway through, make up their own game entirely, and then cheat at that made up game and still have them post a review about it admitting to all that speaks a lot about how it draws you in, but also has a fairly bad rulebook that can ruin the experience. I don’t think munchkin was fair, all those entry level games are painful and filled with poor sloppy design that’s going to be the target of ire. Cards against humanity might be glaringly missing, it’s not a bad idea, a game that makes you feel funny without doing anything. People have come to hate it realizing both how repetitive and uninteresting it is and how racist and sexist both it and it’s designers are. The biggest missing game? Magic the gathering. What was a cosmic encounter card game was sold as “baseball cards” and cosmic encounter as a way to maximize profit to a newer game publisher. People hate it’s monetization, people hate it’s resource screw instant loss on draw design. even people who love magic... hate magic for power creep, and now adding warhammer, walking dead, and other IP based sets. Games I don’t see a huge pushback on: burgundy, terraforming Mars, food chain, kdm. I feel like most people get why they’re good and the art/cost/style/components just aren’t for them.
I think the problems with FCM goes beyond playing it as a newbie. It has a rather exponential development based on the initial few turns and some of what happens in those turns can beyond your influence. And then... the idea is brilliant, but some of the mechanisms just doesn't make sense. Especially the milestones and their exclusivity.
You’d probably be the BEST person to ask this question: How similar is Cthulhu Death May Die and Zombicide Black Plague? As someone who champions C:DMD and who mentions in the video that Black Plague feels like something you’ll never get rid of, what makes them unique from each other?
Normally the more money you have invested in something the more likely you are to tell everyone (including yourself) how great it is. It's the only cure for buyers remorse.
I don't get people saying a game is way overrated because it has bad art. You're playing a game, that's the important part right that the game is good? If you wanna look at art that's fine but why not do that instead? That's like saying a ferrari is a bad car because it's a green one... I'm gonna go as far as to say when a game looks great and is highly rated I'm much more sceptical about it because I know it might be average and gotten points for it's looks. Also imo TF has great art, so what if it's clipboard art, it's a picture that's correspondent to the name and the thing makes complete sense in terraforming and with the stuff you get from the card. It's like yes we need microbes on mars for life, yes it needs to be colder for them to survive there and yes that picture looks like a microbe. It makes sense, it's thematically right and the art is acceptable for sure.
For hardcore gamers, the best games are the complex games especially for Dungeon Crawlers. If a game can be played with kids, it is not a good game for them
I think it's because Jamey Stegmaier is so involved with the fans. He does RUclips videos every week, he talks directly to his consumers in various ways, and he has a very positive attitude and outlook. On top of that the games have great components, everything down to the rulebooks are top-notch quality. And though there have been a couple Stonemaier games that didn't blow me away, the games that I do like from them I love. Viticulture, Scythe and Wingspan are all from the same company? That's impressive. I also personally think Euphoria and Between Two Castles are fantastic as well but they don't seem to be as popular.
I agree with your take of Kingdom Death Monster. I own quite a bit of it and I love it, but its a game that a buyer should make sure it is right for them. It works for me because prior to the purchase I had concept buy in from my game group.
I had Gloomhaven, bought it off a friend, as I hadn't KSed it, but enjoyed it, and ended up selling it before using it, but had I kept playing it, I was NOT going to destroy components! I don't like the idea of a legacy game at all to be honest. I can get a similar but repeatable experience on video games of similar ilk without destroying anything or having a box I'm done with cluttering my shelves. Apps I'm mostly neutral too as I love video and board games both very much. It's neither an attraction nor a deal breaker for me. There are a lot of games about colonization, slavery and that period of history, although I've never played Puerto Rico. I've seen NPI's video and quite enjoyed their take on it. Honestly, there are a lot of games that have themes around some unpleasant subjects, even games like Brass covers a time when regular people often were subjected to hellish conditions. Part of why my own main prototype game is set on an alien world is to avoid getting mired in such controversy. I've not played Marvel Untied so can't judge it. I'm indifferent to chibis although I sold my Arcadia Quest stuff recently as we only played it once and I need room. I love and prefer heavier games; my main game is Star Fleet Battles after all, but I don't mind simpler fare at times. I played Munchkin once about 15 years ago. Don't recall it well so it didn't leave a big impression one way or another. I haven't played Catan in many years but I did enjoy it. KDM is one that I'd try but it looks a bit tedious to actually play and it makes Cthulhu Wars looks cheap (I go all in as well)! I'm fine with the dark/anime style, although I prefer a bit lighter atmosphere (my favorite multiplayer online shooters are the 3 Plants vs. Zombies shooters for example). Etherfields is one that looks messy. I watched both the NPI and SU&SD videos but that's about all I know of it so can't really judge it too closely, but what I saw doesn't inspire confidence. Castles of Burgundy is something I still haven't played yet! I at least want to try it someday! I'm older and was a big fan of classic AH games and such so art isn't an automatic reject for me, although it's as you say here, often maligned when compared to so many modern games with slick, glossy productions. Ah, Food Chain Magnate. Splotter games are overpriced for the component quality; I've played the Great Zimbabwe and for the cost, the game looks like a prototype to be honest, and while I don't mind Magnate's 50s art deco theming, it's price is far too high for what you get, and while I've not played it, I hear mostly bad things about how you can fall behind and never catch up. I admit that I've never played Zombicide, but it looks like the board game of Call of Duty (which I avoid despite my love of shooters), which I'm not a fan of. It's another one I'd play if someone asked me too but not one I'd seek out. Terraforming Mars is definitely polarizing in our group as some love and other loathe it. I've not played it but it but as I tend to prefer Ameri-thrash over euros, I don't think I'd enjoy it, but again, would give it a try, art notwithstanding. Wingspan is one that no one brought to a meetup even before the pandemic which considering how popular it is, is very weird to me as Stonemaier games are indeed overhyped and praised and I have no idea why. Scythe is ok but kind of dull (and glad I cancelled my pledge to back Cthulhu Wars OS2 instead) and Tapestry is a hot mess. Can't speak to Viticulture or Pendulum as I've not played those. The bird theme for Wingspan isn't a plus for me, but not a negative either. For me, the biggest culprit is Terra Mystica. I bought it based on reviews and liked all the wooden pieces and when we finally played it, 2 of us hated it so much that I never played again and gave it away to the club (the other player that hated it even more than I did ended up playing Ascension on their phone halfway through). I have no idea what the appeal with this thing is. It's rare that I straight up hate a game, but this one was so mind numbingly dull that it's a game I will outright refuse to play ever again.
When it comes to Puerto Rico, people want to insist that this game is about slavery and politics, which is not. I'm a Puerto Rican that loves the game and regularly plays the game with fellow Puerto Ricans, and not one of us is offended by this game. I've noticed that those offended by an unexisting and imaginary theme aren't Puerto Ricans or are of Puerto Rican descendants yet don't live on the island, never have lived on the island, and don't even speak Spanish. This overly sensitive snowflake culture will destroy the greatest game of all time. I would advise everyone to get a copy of Puerto Rico (Not the deluxe version) while they can.
I really appreciate how you tackle reviews. You understand that people have different tastes and you try to understand how some people may like it. Honestly, I stopped watching Shut up and Sit Down because I got the feeling that they were being overly dramatic for the sake of being witty and entertaining instead of being honest and objective. I have no use for that that type of review.
I DESPISE the artwork in Food Chain Magnate. I probably wouldn't play it anyway because of the new/old player issue, but it's so ugly to me that I would never even get that far.
Been watching a lot of bbg review/discussion videos over the past few years, and I just stumbled upon yours this afternoon. I really like your videos. Shelfside is a newer review duo that I discovered post-pandemic. I appreciate that you shout out to other bbg content creators as well, such as no pun's colonialism theme video.
It's weird to me that birds as a theme is an issue for Wingspan. Maybe I'm bias because I'm a biologist but I love the theme, and the art. I can understand why people don't like the gameplay, but I really enjoy it. Anyway, thank you for the good video, cheers.
Here's another one you missed: Anything designed by Daniele Tascini. With his comments that have been called racist, he saw some major backlash, including publishers dropping him.
I got to defend Etherfields, so I think the game is intended for that week for week game session, so basically once week you do a slumber and then a dream, then the next and so on. That's what my game group does and honestly no one has complained about the slumbers yet. I feel that people are playing through several dreams in one game session for those reviews and that's were the slumbers being repetitive is coming from.
I thought maybe Cthulhu Wars would be on here for excessive minis driving up a huge cost ( i don't think they even fit well on the board). That being said I'd love to play someone else's copy ;)
Cosmic Encounter should be on the list - clearly, it's popular, despite being just a more complicated and text-heavy version of Munchkin (which - as you correctly pointed out - is already not a great game).
@@BoardGameCo Maybe it's complicated enough that there is sufficient selection in who's playing it and most of those people have well-calibrated expectations? Or why do you think that is? When looking at BGG, I don't seem to be completely alone with my opinion, but there are also fewer critical reviews than I expected.
Root generates a ton of polarized opinions. And perhaps more interesting than simply being polarizing, it seems to continually rope in a lot of people to discuss their opinion one way or the other, not just a couple folks.
SM I think has that buzz because 1. How they interact with the community 2. Components/art 3. Almost all their games are well received. 4. Its a small company. I think you add all that together and it's just a recipe for success.
I know I'm always interested in what they put out and the only game from them that has stayed in my collection is scythe. As a fan of the red rising books though you better believe I instant pre-ordered that haha
@@justinvenable917 haven't played tapestry (didn't look like my kind of game) but I'm actually the opposite of you. I love scythe and really dislike viticulture lol
Another interesting video! Terraforming Mars is my favorite game of all time. It used to be Dominion but it's been years since I played it now. The best part about TM is that every card and corporation is unique and you have to play differently depending on the cards you get. No other game is as replayable. I don't care about the art, it's not exciting but it is functional. Looking forward to the Big Box and 3D stuff though :) I agree on Wingspan, I do not know why it is so highly rated.
I think it's funny that you bring that up about TfM, then dismiss Wingspan which *also* has unique cards and you have to play differently depending on the cards you get. I'd say it's a fairly common property for card-based engine builders to have.
@@thijsschipper6406 but Wingspan feels the same every time I play, the cards I get doesn't make it feel different. Wingspan is also a much lighter and game with simpler mechanics.
Jamey Stegmeyer is either Steve Jobs or P.T. Barnum, depending on who you ask. Wingspan is fun, and I hate birds, they are creepy. The art is beautiful though.
An estimated 45 million people in the US alone are birdwatchers. If a decent bird themed game like Wingspan wasn't popular there would be something wrong.
That 2016 survey you are quoting is flawed, and 39 million of those were people who look at birds who come to a bird feeder. The most popular bird watching app has 565,000 users (not active users, but just users). The ABA has stated that they think those numbers are completely false and misleading, and with a 1.2 million members, they have stated that they real number might be 12 million active bird watchers, at most.
Birdwatchers and birders are typically considered as distinct hobbies, with overlap of course. Birdwatchers are usually considered as people who watch birds at their feeders for fun. Hence the number I quoted which matches with your number. Birders are a different breed who travel outside their home to seek out birds. The number of birders is much smaller of course. The ABA number is actually quite high, considering I am an avid birder who has photographed birds in every county of my state and across many other states and countries, and I do not have an active membership with the ABA. Many birders in the US still do not use ebird (the app you mentioned), and there are many countries where ebird is not the dominant list making tool. Wingspan being available outside the US, my point stands that there is a huge group of hobby birdwatchers that would buy the game, many even if they do not engage in the boardgame hobby.
If a game is set in a historical setting and based on historical events, should it erase history as to not hurt someone's feelings who had nothing to do with it?
No. But what these games are doing is not portraying history, it’s just white washing colonialism with abstraction and carelessnes. If you want to use slavery or exploitation of people in your game, make it have a point and not just have it be another colour of resource
@@joelbergvonlinde1389 How is acknowledging that the people who worked the fields in PR in the time it was set are slaves; how is that white washing history!? I would say pretending they weren't would be closer to that definition.
@@thecuriousboardgamer I agree that is a bad choice. I would have not have called them colonists unless there was a distinction between the types of people working in PR. But that in and of itself is pretty minor. I often point out the colour of the workers to people who haven't played before as I teach it. Not that slavery was ever just a black person thing of course. It's funny, Viking games are pretty universally beloved and uncontroversial, but man oh man, were that lot slavers!! I'd rather a game that addressed it, even lightly, than one that ignores it completely.
I know Puerto Rico has been in discussion for a while now, but I think another key point is that it is a game with a pasted on theme. It is a cube pusher, it could have had any theme and the designer + publisher *chose* for it to be about using slaves on a plantation. You aren't learning anything from the game, it is not core to the gameplay like Freedom: The Underground Railroad.
Great video! I appreciate your perspective. As an engineer and a physics teacher Terraforming Mars just trivializes the science & engineering too much for me. It is so misleading and pretentious I can't get over it. I think I have to be setting the record straight rather than focus on playing the game. As hobby I like to draw, water color and paint miniatures so the artwork must be appealing to me as well. Red Planet on the other hand with great art and no pretense of real science is so much more appealing to me. SciFi yes! Pseudo Science NO!
I've got Mansions Of Madness, and I really understand this controversy. It's a beautiful game and easy to play, but it annoys the hell out of me switching to the app. Every time I play I keep wishing for some monster cards, monster wound counters, and an extra die to replace the app.
Having played some of the scenario’s multiple times, components can’t actually replace what the app does. A port for the 2nd edition stuff back into first edition 1vs all would be cool though.
super interesting Alex, I always enjoy your insights. It boggles my mind that Wingspan would be considered polarizing . haha Its such a mild, likeable game. I take your point about SM though.
Images of the boxes when you're talking about specific games would be appreciated in future videos. There are several games on this list I dislike, so I guess many others feel the same way.
Jamie Stegemier's games are generally popular because they are generally good. Look at Viticulture, Scythe, and Wingspan. I actually like Wingspan and dislike Terraforming Mars, because the latter appears like an accounting game about calculating numbers.
9 Versions of Zombicide is pushing it. It's really more like 5, maybe 6: Zombicide Modern was Season 1-3 of the Original, Black Plague and Green Horde are Zombicide Fantasy, Invader is Zombicide Sci-Fi. then there was the remake of Zombicide Modern in Zombicide 2, which can debatably be considered a replacement to the prior version. Lastly we have Night of the Living Dead as a crosso-over, and Undead or Alive for Western. This is how CMON themselves break down the Zombicide franchises (Modern, Fantasy, Sci-Fi, Romero, Western) so it kind of boils down to 5, some with expansions, potentially 6 depending how you treat the original 3 seasons. That said, it's still a mind numbing amount Zombicide, lol. Personally I am just going to stick with Fantasy and Sci-Fi, so I don't have to worry about my wallet unless they do a Zombicide Fantasy 2 (which I personally would appreciate as I feel it could benefit from some of the modern streamlining and mechanics like characters classes, which would be perfect for a Fantasy RPG styled game).
The top of my list would be Cards Against Humanity and Secret Hitler. I would also put Kingdom Death Monster and Tainted Grail on it. I find No Pun Included reviews entertaining even though I disagree with many of their opinions. How about Abyss with its multiple boxes?
I think that Return to Dark Tower has divided the community but I would actually like to play it. App integration divides board game communities but nobody thinks about good app integration.
@@BoardGameCo I read in Senet Magazine that RtDT has the main focus being the components and gameplay. They explicitly stated that they don't want the app to be the main focus, but the components and your friends
going to apps in gaming, i wouldnt mind playing with a app so much if they offer the choice of playing without the app, decsent 2nd edition is good with the app and great without
It took me a while to figure out what bothered me about this video. Because of how you personally related to every game it felt less like an objective look and far more like"the anti social boardgame store owner who shouts at all his customers about how their boardgame choices are wrong -and then wonders why no one comes to his shop anymore" Not sure that's a healthy feeling for a RUclips channel
BoardGameCo don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with your points in the video. It's more the feeling this should have been an objective look but instead was entirely subjective is what I found unsettling. The tone just felt overshadowed, as if you had axes to grind. Sorry
Our board game group loves Puerto Rico. We keep track of wins and losses. It's definitely a game where the veterans crush the newbies so I'd only want to play with other veteran players. It's a great game though.
Your chapter 1 should be 0:42 Rolling up sleeves and getting to work! 😂 Thanks for the thoughts on these games. I am with you on Marvel United. I think it's fun! Is it the heaviest game known to exist? Of course not. . but it is indeed a good time with friends.
Terraforming Mars is an amazing game, but the tile placement could be improved. It doesn't do much and that is sad, because that is almost the only part of the game where you really Interact with other players.
I like your channel and generally agree with your choices. But Etherfields I just don't get. It's the worst game I have ever had the misfortune to buy. Not because of the obvious things you and everyone mentions but because of the gameplay. There are just too many mechanisms and in my experience at least the scenarios involve very little skill. Blind luck is more important. So if you see this I'd be interested in hearing what skill it requires of its players.
It's much more a narrative game then a skill based game, that said there are decisions to make, patterns to see, risk/reward. But it is more narrative/escape room.
@@BoardGameCo Interesting. Because for another major issue with the game is the narrative. I don't feel that the story is at all original, it is just a familiar trope of how we used technology to mess things up and the "dreams" are just a skin, it could equally well be set in some sort of alternative dimension. Almost all the "dreams" feature monsters that you have to avoid in some way, this is more of a dungeon cawl than anything resembling the majority of dreams that most folks who have not eaten too much cheese tend to have. All this is not helped by the average quality of the prose and the terrible presentation of the secret scripts book.
I am one of those that fall into the category that don't like TM. It may have colored my opinion but originally on release TM was super expensive, like $90-$100 and the components were trash. They are still trash, imo, unless you paid to upgrade them in the last KSer. From a mechanics side there are just too many cards for me to remember.
Zombicide Black Plague interested me, but I'm super late to the party and can't justify the expense. Maybe if they ever do a reprint, but I'm 100% in if they ever do a pirate version. 😅
Ahahah terraforming mars I totally agree, I have a live and hate relationship with it that I kinda like the gameplay but at the same time doesn't really feel satisfying. The engine doesn't feel as satisfying as other engine building. I'm currently on the fence with the KS all in marvel united. I have the base core box from Walmart and I play through all of it. I like the simplicity, but the replayability isn't there with just 3 villains. So I'm gonna go all in. So just a question for you, the game that exits your collection where does it actually go? Do you gift it to friends or donate it ?
I found Zombicide 1st Edition at a garage sale for $5 a few months back... Me and my friends have had a blast, I love the open sandbox nature of it... And with a few house rules? The game has improved enough for us that I feel confident enough to hold off on Zombicide 2nd Edition for a while... But I definitely want that Wild West one! 🤣
In regards to the art of Terraforming Mars, I think the term you're looking for is campy, appealing because of how bad it is. Regarding Munchkin, I enjoy it, but I completely understand why people dislike it. A quick defense: it's not always about attacking the leader; if players negotiate well enough, they can accumulate enough loot at each step of the game to easily fight for lead. Core Munchkin is also great for how it riffs on D&D. In terms of dislike, the game runs too long for what it is, Steve Jackson obviously milks the system with expansions and iterations, and there are plenty of mechanically better games out there. That being said, why are we trying to dictate how other people have fun? Totally agree with the concept of, "It's just not for me, but it might be for someone else."
@@BoardGameCo mostly for the theme of collectable card games, buy it also has a real time element and many many different effects and interaction. Most people i presented it to either loved it or disliked it, instead of a middle ground.
I genuinely appreciate your attitude towards game reviews. It’s always “this is not for me” and “this may not be for you” and never “this game is garbage”
Thank you :)
Well the thing is some games are actually bad, it just so happens in today's time you can't say that because the truth hurts. You can like a bad game, probably either because you're a big fan of the genre or the theme, that being said usually you can call a game bad when there's just much better out there or the concept just doesn't work. And there's plenty of games like that, take the dark souls board game for instance. It's mediocre at best but it's 3 times as expensive as other games that are better in it's genre, that being said many souls fanboys will still defend it despite it being bad to mediocre in all aspects.
No Pun Included is a polarising channel. If they hate something its probably good. I find anyone putting a game into a bin as being probably not worth watching. Remember that conversation about negativity? I'm from the UK, and I see NPI as more about how to be smug and pompous rather than review something. SU&SD do the same thing, but maintain a reviewers opinion.
yeah, agree on all counts.
Every game of Munchkin ends the same, everybody's fighting at the very end, and then somebody just gives up and let's somebody else win
I only played it once....too long and not to my taste.
For us, it's that we don't have the cards to stop the winner; no one's given up, it's just that the cards weren't there.
We played it coop in order to end the suffering of playing it sooner
I use to like it years ago before I got into gaming because I liked the building up my character, but then I found people being mad after the game too much, so I haven't played it in years.
@@StevenH4684 Yes, I stopped because someone usually gets angry.
Grabbing a coffee with a pastry for this one, Alex! 😆😆 Can’t wait to sit down and watch. Thanks as always!
Oh man, those pastries :)
You're straight-up in your wheelhouse when you do these types of vids, Alex. Really enjoyed this - perfect start to my morning!
Surprised The Mind and Gloomhaven didn't make appearances.
Oooh...the Mind would have been a great one! Gloomhaven too, but the Mind...such a good choice.
I always find the bad designs that inexplicably lots of people love much more interesting than the near perfect designs that aren’t the taste of a few people who get them because they’re popular.
I just purchased 'Surprised The Mind'!
These seem to fall into a couple of broad categories: games that you* like that I* don't want to play and games that you* like that someone thinks you* are a bad person for playing.
For the former, the reasons for liking and disliking games are legion. I have absolutely no interest in playing Scrabble, but for some people it's the core of their boardgaming. Similar things apply to Diplomacy, Advanced Squad Leader, Poker, Magic: the Gathering, Dungeons and Dragons, Football (whichever code), Ticket to Ride, .... De gustibus non est disputandum. Anyone who can't figure out that basic fact of life really needs to work on empathy.
For the second, the latest woke-ist clamor is in no way different from the Satanic Panic around D&D, the earlier backlash against wargames, the United States Senate Subcommittee on Juvenile Delinquincy's "investigation" of comic books, or any other moral panic you wish to name. For me, if I get any of that sort of response when I am playing a game, the most polite response that will be elicited will be "Mind your own business". If I'm not in an especially charitable mood, the response will be ... more blunt.
It's not difficult to come up with some reason to find a game offensive. In some games your goal is to kill sentients, in others your goal is to kill and eat animals, in others your goal is to dominate people you disagree with, in others your goal is to grab as much of a small pot of resources as you can, in others you gamble, in others you profit by usury, in others you use magic or consort with demons ... I could go on ad infinitum. Instead of spending your effort on disapproval of what makes others happy, how about trying to find something that makes you happy. And if the thing that makes you happy is making others unhappy, let's just say that the Golden Rule has a corollary: I assume that the way you treat others is indicative of the way that you wish to be treated and will do my best to accommodate that wish.
Tolerance does not require approval, and in fact implies pretty much the opposite of approval. (If you approve, you don't need to exercise tolerance.) If you want tolerance for your quirks, you would do well to exercise tolerance for the quirks of others.
* Using "you" and "I" as markers for two opposing camps large enough to notice.
Puerto Rico would be polarizing regardless of the theme. It's polarizing to me because I reject games that are so clearly weighted towards the veteran player. It has a serious barrier to entry for that reason and therefore is one of those games where the people who love it REALLY love it while many new players are driven away by its almost grognard kind of reputation.
That's fair. These days that critique has faded into the general background
Backing up what others have said, Jamey Stegmaier is just such a positive part of the hobby and board game industry that he engenders good will amongst board gamers. His commitment to outstanding customer service when companies like Asmodee put out policies of not replacing broken or missing components is amazing and commendable.
For me, I've found that I enjoy a high majority of his games and genuinely look forward to news of upcoming releases from Stonemaier games. Some may not be the hits that Viticulture or Tapestry are ,for me, but at the end of the day I'm supporting someone who genuinely loves the hobby and is committed to providing the best experience possible to his customers.
I understand that Terraforming Mars is not for everyone.
You really have to like the theme (science, space, science-fiction), have enough patience and time (~4h) and a tolerance for some luck of the draw.
What makes Terraforming Mars so amazing in my opinion is not the engine building, but the theme and the dynamic with all those little and big things to compete for during the game including the unusual kind of area control. The mechanics are so great (drafting, milestones & awards, terraforming parameters as thresholds, 1 or 2 actions turn structure, triggered effects, ...). The art is not great but it's good and fitting.
You don't have to sell me on it :) I love it :)
Puerto Rico: Those same "colonists" that work in the plantations also run all the buildings, so are they representing slaves?
I wrote a whole comment about your Puerto Rico segment and then RUclips ate it, so much for that! But I really appreciate how you tackled it, and as someone whose primary gaming group is mostly POC, I see firsthand that we're all bringing our background and experiences to our hobby time in some ways b/c that's simply "who we are," and different people are always going to have different baselines for what feels right to them.
As for Marvel United, if people really want something crunchier, guess they could use the minis with crisis protocol rules?
A major element of Munchkin that draws people is the humor.
Oh absolutely. There's an audience for it, no question.
I like the concept of App assisted games from a standpoint of simplifying bookkeeping. That said, I'd never really considered the religion aspect of apps as a barrier to a play. Thanks for that perspective.
I totally hear the benefits of them, I'm still open to them.
Castles of Burgundy - I love the art on the original game
I hate the art in both versions. The iconography is better in the first though.
I found out that I loved Terraforming Mars when I played the electronic version against AI, over and over again. What I found out I did _not_ love was what the game morphed into in my gaming club - a four hour "draft everything" slog with all expansions, where players desperately tried to play as many cards as they could while not increasing the parameters unless they had to.
The marvel United game looks life from a distance but when you face those expansions and stretch goal enemies it has a lot of depth and difficulty
Yes it does :)
While I despise Monopoly as a game, I disagree with the mindset of people following a route of refusing to acknowledge the game exists, while pushing towards the fun of the modern games of today. The fact of the matter is that if it weren't for Monopoly, board gaming today would probably be different, or even non-existent. So even if it's a bad game, it still deserves some respect for what it brought us years later.
I don't know but other people, but I'm not trying to pretend it doesn't exist. At the same time I do think it is a inferior game at least compared to what we have nowadays, and yet it's still the face of the genre. It would be a kin to whenever you talk about movies, someone Just assumed you were talking about some movie from the 1940s that represents the entire film industry.
Awaken Realms makes some really cool games. But they do desperately need a professional rule book writer. I think twice about backing anything from them until I get a chance to see their rule book first.
They got Paul Grogan on board for ISS Vanguard :)
I believe they hired one for ISS Vanguard, so quality should be better there
I LOVE my Splotters, but I agree that they require a certain type of player. I have my Splotter group, and we enjoy fine tuning our strategies.
Absolutely agreed.
Well done! Interesting as always! Agreed on so many points. Wingspan is my least liked Stonemaier game I have played. Publishers could be an interesting topic as well. How they approach the customers, their strategies....
Thanks :) Glad you enjoyed.
Some boardgames are puzzles, some boardgames are interactive. And they're both called boardgames. The people that love munchkin probably dislike wingspan.
Fair :)
Great pick on Kingdom Death Monster. The theme is insane, but usually whenever I bring up it up highly on a list, the main argument against it is "I don't want to assemble the minis."
Well yes....that too :)
And then there are those of us who go "Please god Cmon, AR, etc let us assemble them ourselves!!"
@@wodmarach the true controversy!
I thought the game play was even more repetitive than Gloomhaven, I don't have it but I'm not gonna say I won't like it coz I completed Gloomhaven and Forgotten Circles lol
@@marduk3604 Good point there. I can definitely see the repetitiveness of early game quarries if you don’t have expansions. There’s definitely a game play loop, but I really enjoy the unique way the AI interacts with the players. It’s more than just, “ohhh this one attacks then moves!” I can’t complain either though since I’ve also completed Gloomhaven :P
I'm surprised you didn't put Gloomhaven on here. I feel like everyone either is against it being the #1 game or loves the game.
That's fair, it's certainly a reasonable inclusion.
Yeah, that was the first game I thought about as well when I saw the name of the video, so I was also a bit surprised.
Legacy game, mentioned initially
Hopefully, we'll look back and appreciate that Puerto Rico helped forward a much needed conversation about how games portray certain aspects of history. Portrayal is not endorsement, but it is an opportunity to engage minority voices that provide much needed perspective that will challenge accepted dogma in a fairly monolithic industry.
As for Wingspan, it didn't connect with me but I appreciate that many others have greatly enjoyed the base game and its expansions. Variety has given me the ability to say, "it's OK not to like this very popular game for reasons that are relevant to me". It's like the proverbial Harley Davidson of board games: "If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand."
We're all lucky to game in a culture that offers something for everyone. Thanks for the video, Alex!
i kind of remember that part of the Kingdom Death Monster controversy was the price point. it's more acceptable now to pay 400-500$ for a board game, but back then, i rememeber plenty of people being astonished that a board game cost as much as the latest generation console!
I don’t mind light games if they still have strategy, plenty of player agency, are fun, and fast. If a light game doesn’t hit those I would rather play a card game like speed, cribbage, or Egyption rat screw.
There is soooo many hardcore games out there. Glad game companies are actually opening up to casual crowd. Now we can get more players.
It seems to me the controversy with Wingspan is some people think it’s amazing while others think it’s fine but vastly overrated, and like to point this out.
To an extent yes.
Agreed, Marvel United is a light, more family-oriented game... But... BUT, I find with the expansions, and ways that you can increase the difficulty (and there are many by removing cards from the player deck, to compounding expansion mechanics on top of each other!), this game can speak to light-hearted to serious gamers alike!
Etherfields is an amazing pick and should be alongside tainted grail. Both were lambasted by the susd/npi group. Any game that makes two top reviewers quit trying to understand the rules midway through, make up their own game entirely, and then cheat at that made up game and still have them post a review about it admitting to all that speaks a lot about how it draws you in, but also has a fairly bad rulebook that can ruin the experience.
I don’t think munchkin was fair, all those entry level games are painful and filled with poor sloppy design that’s going to be the target of ire.
Cards against humanity might be glaringly missing, it’s not a bad idea, a game that makes you feel funny without doing anything. People have come to hate it realizing both how repetitive and uninteresting it is and how racist and sexist both it and it’s designers are.
The biggest missing game? Magic the gathering. What was a cosmic encounter card game was sold as “baseball cards” and cosmic encounter as a way to maximize profit to a newer game publisher. People hate it’s monetization, people hate it’s resource screw instant loss on draw design. even people who love magic... hate magic for power creep, and now adding warhammer, walking dead, and other IP based sets.
Games I don’t see a huge pushback on: burgundy, terraforming Mars, food chain, kdm. I feel like most people get why they’re good and the art/cost/style/components just aren’t for them.
I think the problems with FCM goes beyond playing it as a newbie.
It has a rather exponential development based on the initial few turns and some of what happens in those turns can beyond your influence.
And then... the idea is brilliant, but some of the mechanisms just doesn't make sense. Especially the milestones and their exclusivity.
You’d probably be the BEST person to ask this question: How similar is Cthulhu Death May Die and Zombicide Black Plague? As someone who champions C:DMD and who mentions in the video that Black Plague feels like something you’ll never get rid of, what makes them unique from each other?
I'll have a play this not that coming soon :)
Normally the more money you have invested in something the more likely you are to tell everyone (including yourself) how great it is. It's the only cure for buyers remorse.
Really like the video. Wish I had a $1 for every time Alex uses the word ‘conversation.’
We should talk about that.
I don't get people saying a game is way overrated because it has bad art. You're playing a game, that's the important part right that the game is good? If you wanna look at art that's fine but why not do that instead? That's like saying a ferrari is a bad car because it's a green one...
I'm gonna go as far as to say when a game looks great and is highly rated I'm much more sceptical about it because I know it might be average and gotten points for it's looks.
Also imo TF has great art, so what if it's clipboard art, it's a picture that's correspondent to the name and the thing makes complete sense in terraforming and with the stuff you get from the card. It's like yes we need microbes on mars for life, yes it needs to be colder for them to survive there and yes that picture looks like a microbe. It makes sense, it's thematically right and the art is acceptable for sure.
I think like everything else it's just part of the full picture. Mechanics above everything, but yes production quality and art definitely factor in.
For hardcore gamers, the best games are the complex games especially for Dungeon Crawlers. If a game can be played with kids, it is not a good game for them
I think it's because Jamey Stegmaier is so involved with the fans. He does RUclips videos every week, he talks directly to his consumers in various ways, and he has a very positive attitude and outlook. On top of that the games have great components, everything down to the rulebooks are top-notch quality. And though there have been a couple Stonemaier games that didn't blow me away, the games that I do like from them I love. Viticulture, Scythe and Wingspan are all from the same company? That's impressive. I also personally think Euphoria and Between Two Castles are fantastic as well but they don't seem to be as popular.
I agree with your take of Kingdom Death Monster. I own quite a bit of it and I love it, but its a game that a buyer should make sure it is right for them. It works for me because prior to the purchase I had concept buy in from my game group.
Glad you enjoy it :) Quackalope may yet pull me in...we'll see.
I had Gloomhaven, bought it off a friend, as I hadn't KSed it, but enjoyed it, and ended up selling it before using it, but had I kept playing it, I was NOT going to destroy components! I don't like the idea of a legacy game at all to be honest. I can get a similar but repeatable experience on video games of similar ilk without destroying anything or having a box I'm done with cluttering my shelves.
Apps I'm mostly neutral too as I love video and board games both very much. It's neither an attraction nor a deal breaker for me.
There are a lot of games about colonization, slavery and that period of history, although I've never played Puerto Rico. I've seen NPI's video and quite enjoyed their take on it. Honestly, there are a lot of games that have themes around some unpleasant subjects, even games like Brass covers a time when regular people often were subjected to hellish conditions. Part of why my own main prototype game is set on an alien world is to avoid getting mired in such controversy.
I've not played Marvel Untied so can't judge it. I'm indifferent to chibis although I sold my Arcadia Quest stuff recently as we only played it once and I need room. I love and prefer heavier games; my main game is Star Fleet Battles after all, but I don't mind simpler fare at times.
I played Munchkin once about 15 years ago. Don't recall it well so it didn't leave a big impression one way or another. I haven't played Catan in many years but I did enjoy it.
KDM is one that I'd try but it looks a bit tedious to actually play and it makes Cthulhu Wars looks cheap (I go all in as well)! I'm fine with the dark/anime style, although I prefer a bit lighter atmosphere (my favorite multiplayer online shooters are the 3 Plants vs. Zombies shooters for example).
Etherfields is one that looks messy. I watched both the NPI and SU&SD videos but that's about all I know of it so can't really judge it too closely, but what I saw doesn't inspire confidence.
Castles of Burgundy is something I still haven't played yet! I at least want to try it someday! I'm older and was a big fan of classic AH games and such so art isn't an automatic reject for me, although it's as you say here, often maligned when compared to so many modern games with slick, glossy productions.
Ah, Food Chain Magnate. Splotter games are overpriced for the component quality; I've played the Great Zimbabwe and for the cost, the game looks like a prototype to be honest, and while I don't mind Magnate's 50s art deco theming, it's price is far too high for what you get, and while I've not played it, I hear mostly bad things about how you can fall behind and never catch up.
I admit that I've never played Zombicide, but it looks like the board game of Call of Duty (which I avoid despite my love of shooters), which I'm not a fan of. It's another one I'd play if someone asked me too but not one I'd seek out.
Terraforming Mars is definitely polarizing in our group as some love and other loathe it. I've not played it but it but as I tend to prefer Ameri-thrash over euros, I don't think I'd enjoy it, but again, would give it a try, art notwithstanding.
Wingspan is one that no one brought to a meetup even before the pandemic which considering how popular it is, is very weird to me as Stonemaier games are indeed overhyped and praised and I have no idea why. Scythe is ok but kind of dull (and glad I cancelled my pledge to back Cthulhu Wars OS2 instead) and Tapestry is a hot mess. Can't speak to Viticulture or Pendulum as I've not played those. The bird theme for Wingspan isn't a plus for me, but not a negative either.
For me, the biggest culprit is Terra Mystica. I bought it based on reviews and liked all the wooden pieces and when we finally played it, 2 of us hated it so much that I never played again and gave it away to the club (the other player that hated it even more than I did ended up playing Ascension on their phone halfway through). I have no idea what the appeal with this thing is. It's rare that I straight up hate a game, but this one was so mind numbingly dull that it's a game I will outright refuse to play ever again.
Surprised Rising Sun didn't make this list. Maybe it's #16...
lol fair :)
When it comes to Puerto Rico, people want to insist that this game is about slavery and politics, which is not. I'm a Puerto Rican that loves the game and regularly plays the game with fellow Puerto Ricans, and not one of us is offended by this game.
I've noticed that those offended by an unexisting and imaginary theme aren't Puerto Ricans or are of Puerto Rican descendants yet don't live on the island, never have lived on the island, and don't even speak Spanish.
This overly sensitive snowflake culture will destroy the greatest game of all time. I would advise everyone to get a copy of Puerto Rico (Not the deluxe version) while they can.
I really appreciate how you tackle reviews. You understand that people have different tastes and you try to understand how some people may like it. Honestly, I stopped watching Shut up and Sit Down because I got the feeling that they were being overly dramatic for the sake of being witty and entertaining instead of being honest and objective. I have no use for that that type of review.
I think the word you're looking for to describe the art for Terraforming Mars may be "campy"
Yes, I'll take it :)
Campy. You nailed it bud.
Campy. But for the high school science camp
All Awaken Realms games are polarizing. Not just Etherfields. I’ve kept Nemesis and Lords of Hellas though.
Interesting, I haven't seen that as much.
I DESPISE the artwork in Food Chain Magnate. I probably wouldn't play it anyway because of the new/old player issue, but it's so ugly to me that I would never even get that far.
Oh agreed.
Been watching a lot of bbg review/discussion videos over the past few years, and I just stumbled upon yours this afternoon. I really like your videos. Shelfside is a newer review duo that I discovered post-pandemic. I appreciate that you shout out to other bbg content creators as well, such as no pun's colonialism theme video.
Shelf side is great :) very unique comedy takes plus solid content overall.
I think most gamers agree that Munchkin isn't a great game, even people who enjoy it.
Could be, but I don't like speaking for others in that sense....could be people love it.
It's weird to me that birds as a theme is an issue for Wingspan. Maybe I'm bias because I'm a biologist but I love the theme, and the art. I can understand why people don't like the gameplay, but I really enjoy it. Anyway, thank you for the good video, cheers.
Yep, for a theme so many were dismissive of, it's doing well :)
Here's another one you missed: Anything designed by Daniele Tascini. With his comments that have been called racist, he saw some major backlash, including publishers dropping him.
That's fair, that would be added as well.
I got to defend Etherfields, so I think the game is intended for that week for week game session, so basically once week you do a slumber and then a dream, then the next and so on. That's what my game group does and honestly no one has complained about the slumbers yet. I feel that people are playing through several dreams in one game session for those reviews and that's were the slumbers being repetitive is coming from.
You're wrong! (I haven't watched the video yet) :P
Maybe....maybe not :)
I thought maybe Cthulhu Wars would be on here for excessive minis driving up a huge cost ( i don't think they even fit well on the board). That being said I'd love to play someone else's copy ;)
Cosmic Encounter should be on the list - clearly, it's popular, despite being just a more complicated and text-heavy version of Munchkin (which - as you correctly pointed out - is already not a great game).
Interesting....I don't disagree with what you're saying but I don't actually find it controversial in terms of when it comes up.
@@BoardGameCo Maybe it's complicated enough that there is sufficient selection in who's playing it and most of those people have well-calibrated expectations? Or why do you think that is? When looking at BGG, I don't seem to be completely alone with my opinion, but there are also fewer critical reviews than I expected.
Root generates a ton of polarized opinions. And perhaps more interesting than simply being polarizing, it seems to continually rope in a lot of people to discuss their opinion one way or the other, not just a couple folks.
SM I think has that buzz because 1. How they interact with the community 2. Components/art 3. Almost all their games are well received. 4. Its a small company. I think you add all that together and it's just a recipe for success.
I know I'm always interested in what they put out and the only game from them that has stayed in my collection is scythe. As a fan of the red rising books though you better believe I instant pre-ordered that haha
@@cartergreen2309 Viticulture for me. Don't care for Scythe (but will play it with friends if they ask) and hate Tapestry.
@@justinvenable917 haven't played tapestry (didn't look like my kind of game) but I'm actually the opposite of you. I love scythe and really dislike viticulture lol
@@cartergreen2309 Different strokes for different folks! Cheers! :)
@@justinvenable917 yeah exactly. Always good to see games I don't enjoy being played and liked.
I'm in the last hours of a bidding war for zombicide season 2 all in. I'm currently winning. loved this video Alex. informative as always
Good luck!
Nooooo! Not KDM again 😂
I agree though, it's ridiculously expensive to get into it and not everyone likes it. Just happens to be my favorite game :)
Lol, but that's inherently why it's here :)
Another interesting video! Terraforming Mars is my favorite game of all time. It used to be Dominion but it's been years since I played it now. The best part about TM is that every card and corporation is unique and you have to play differently depending on the cards you get. No other game is as replayable. I don't care about the art, it's not exciting but it is functional. Looking forward to the Big Box and 3D stuff though :) I agree on Wingspan, I do not know why it is so highly rated.
I think it's funny that you bring that up about TfM, then dismiss Wingspan which *also* has unique cards and you have to play differently depending on the cards you get.
I'd say it's a fairly common property for card-based engine builders to have.
@@thijsschipper6406 but Wingspan feels the same every time I play, the cards I get doesn't make it feel different. Wingspan is also a much lighter and game with simpler mechanics.
Jamey Stegmeyer is either Steve Jobs or P.T. Barnum, depending on who you ask. Wingspan is fun, and I hate birds, they are creepy. The art is beautiful though.
Lol yes, both great comparisons.
And I thought I was alone disliking the artwork of Terraforming Mars.
Oh not at all.
I'm pretty sure everyone does
An estimated 45 million people in the US alone are birdwatchers. If a decent bird themed game like Wingspan wasn't popular there would be something wrong.
That 2016 survey you are quoting is flawed, and 39 million of those were people who look at birds who come to a bird feeder. The most popular bird watching app has 565,000 users (not active users, but just users). The ABA has stated that they think those numbers are completely false and misleading, and with a 1.2 million members, they have stated that they real number might be 12 million active bird watchers, at most.
Birdwatchers and birders are typically considered as distinct hobbies, with overlap of course. Birdwatchers are usually considered as people who watch birds at their feeders for fun. Hence the number I quoted which matches with your number.
Birders are a different breed who travel outside their home to seek out birds. The number of birders is much smaller of course. The ABA number is actually quite high, considering I am an avid birder who has photographed birds in every county of my state and across many other states and countries, and I do not have an active membership with the ABA.
Many birders in the US still do not use ebird (the app you mentioned), and there are many countries where ebird is not the dominant list making tool. Wingspan being available outside the US, my point stands that there is a huge group of hobby birdwatchers that would buy the game, many even if they do not engage in the boardgame hobby.
If a game is set in a historical setting and based on historical events, should it erase history as to not hurt someone's feelings who had nothing to do with it?
No. But what these games are doing is not portraying history, it’s just white washing colonialism with abstraction and carelessnes. If you want to use slavery or exploitation of people in your game, make it have a point and not just have it be another colour of resource
@@joelbergvonlinde1389 How is acknowledging that the people who worked the fields in PR in the time it was set are slaves; how is that white washing history!? I would say pretending they weren't would be closer to that definition.
@@nzcamel3 Puerto Rico calls them colonists, not slaves.
@@thecuriousboardgamer I agree that is a bad choice. I would have not have called them colonists unless there was a distinction between the types of people working in PR. But that in and of itself is pretty minor. I often point out the colour of the workers to people who haven't played before as I teach it.
Not that slavery was ever just a black person thing of course. It's funny, Viking games are pretty universally beloved and uncontroversial, but man oh man, were that lot slavers!! I'd rather a game that addressed it, even lightly, than one that ignores it completely.
I enjoy Muchkins, LOL! It's a game to play while drinking and talking with friends while playing a game that you won't take seriously at all.
Monopoly! "Everyone" hates it, but "everyone" loves it.
Or should I say it's a game everyone love to hate, but hate to love
Absolutely :)
I know Puerto Rico has been in discussion for a while now, but I think another key point is that it is a game with a pasted on theme. It is a cube pusher, it could have had any theme and the designer + publisher *chose* for it to be about using slaves on a plantation. You aren't learning anything from the game, it is not core to the gameplay like Freedom: The Underground Railroad.
Great video! I appreciate your perspective.
As an engineer and a physics teacher Terraforming Mars just trivializes the science & engineering too much for me. It is so misleading and pretentious I can't get over it. I think I have to be setting the record straight rather than focus on playing the game. As hobby I like to draw, water color and paint miniatures so the artwork must be appealing to me as well. Red Planet on the other hand with great art and no pretense of real science is so much more appealing to me. SciFi yes! Pseudo Science NO!
I've got Mansions Of Madness, and I really understand this controversy. It's a beautiful game and easy to play, but it annoys the hell out of me switching to the app. Every time I play I keep wishing for some monster cards, monster wound counters, and an extra die to replace the app.
Having played some of the scenario’s multiple times, components can’t actually replace what the app does.
A port for the 2nd edition stuff back into first edition 1vs all would be cool though.
super interesting Alex, I always enjoy your insights. It boggles my mind that Wingspan would be considered polarizing . haha Its such a mild, likeable game. I take your point about SM though.
I know...it's almost weird to think of it now but people had such a problem with a bird themed game, just as a stance of it not being interested.
@@BoardGameCo Honestly I thought birds was a lame theme idea at first. Ironically I find birds really interesting now that I have played Wingspan :)
Interesting price point and component quality wasn't the talking point for Splotter Games. Me personally I love they don't come with a safety net.
Oh I don't mind...but it can be a turn off for many.
Images of the boxes when you're talking about specific games would be appreciated in future videos. There are several games on this list I dislike, so I guess many others feel the same way.
Yep, always a balance. Daily video while doing this part time....one day :)
Jamie Stegemier's games are generally popular because they are generally good. Look at Viticulture, Scythe, and Wingspan. I actually like Wingspan and dislike Terraforming Mars, because the latter appears like an accounting game about calculating numbers.
9 Versions of Zombicide is pushing it. It's really more like 5, maybe 6: Zombicide Modern was Season 1-3 of the Original, Black Plague and Green Horde are Zombicide Fantasy, Invader is Zombicide Sci-Fi. then there was the remake of Zombicide Modern in Zombicide 2, which can debatably be considered a replacement to the prior version. Lastly we have Night of the Living Dead as a crosso-over, and Undead or Alive for Western. This is how CMON themselves break down the Zombicide franchises (Modern, Fantasy, Sci-Fi, Romero, Western) so it kind of boils down to 5, some with expansions, potentially 6 depending how you treat the original 3 seasons.
That said, it's still a mind numbing amount Zombicide, lol. Personally I am just going to stick with Fantasy and Sci-Fi, so I don't have to worry about my wallet unless they do a Zombicide Fantasy 2 (which I personally would appreciate as I feel it could benefit from some of the modern streamlining and mechanics like characters classes, which would be perfect for a Fantasy RPG styled game).
Hi Alex, i agree with you about the games with app. The only exception i found so far is forgotten waters :)
Search for Planet X is great! Wondering if Alex has played this.
Not yet, I need to :)
Terraforming Mars is probably my favourite board game. I like Wingspan but I never play it because my family finds it too boring.
The top of my list would be Cards Against Humanity and Secret Hitler. I would also put Kingdom Death Monster and Tainted Grail on it. I find No Pun Included reviews entertaining even though I disagree with many of their opinions. How about Abyss with its multiple boxes?
I think that Return to Dark Tower has divided the community but I would actually like to play it. App integration divides board game communities but nobody thinks about good app integration.
Yep, it's an uphill battle with apps. Doesn't mean there aren't great games....but something to be mindful of.
@@BoardGameCo I read in Senet Magazine that RtDT has the main focus being the components and gameplay. They explicitly stated that they don't want the app to be the main focus, but the components and your friends
I just don't understand the hate for Wingspan. It's a fantastic family game that has gorgeous art and good components.
As far as I know the hype around everything that Stonemaier Games puts out is because of how popular Scythe is.
And it lasted this long? Other games have been awesome and haven't generated that same hype.
Scythe is another one that people dote on while others see as overrated. But not as much as Wingspan I think
going to apps in gaming, i wouldnt mind playing with a app so much if they offer the choice of playing without the app, decsent 2nd edition is good with the app and great without
It took me a while to figure out what bothered me about this video. Because of how you personally related to every game it felt less like an objective look and far more like"the anti social boardgame store owner who shouts at all his customers about how their boardgame choices are wrong -and then wonders why no one comes to his shop anymore"
Not sure that's a healthy feeling for a RUclips channel
Interesting....not sure how you got there considering I own more than half these games.
BoardGameCo don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with your points in the video. It's more the feeling this should have been an objective look but instead was entirely subjective is what I found unsettling. The tone just felt overshadowed, as if you had axes to grind. Sorry
Our board game group loves Puerto Rico. We keep track of wins and losses. It's definitely a game where the veterans crush the newbies so I'd only want to play with other veteran players. It's a great game though.
No Pun seems to hate... everything!
They definitely are fairly precise in what they like and don't like.
Your chapter 1 should be 0:42 Rolling up sleeves and getting to work! 😂 Thanks for the thoughts on these games. I am with you on Marvel United. I think it's fun! Is it the heaviest game known to exist? Of course not. . but it is indeed a good time with friends.
People underestimate the value of a game that is quick to get to the table and easy to understand!
Terraforming Mars is an amazing game, but the tile placement could be improved. It doesn't do much and that is sad, because that is almost the only part of the game where you really Interact with other players.
Congrats mate on your options for Puerto Rico, let's all start talking to each other.
But way more importantly I need to know more about that mug 😍
Terraforming Mars dethroned Blood Rage for you?
Shhh....don't tell anyone yet.
Colonization is a silly thing to worry about in a game. People are generally just looking for a reason to whine.
I like your channel and generally agree with your choices.
But Etherfields I just don't get. It's the worst game I have ever had the misfortune to buy.
Not because of the obvious things you and everyone mentions but because of the gameplay.
There are just too many mechanisms and in my experience at least the scenarios involve very little skill. Blind luck is more important.
So if you see this I'd be interested in hearing what skill it requires of its players.
It's much more a narrative game then a skill based game, that said there are decisions to make, patterns to see, risk/reward. But it is more narrative/escape room.
@@BoardGameCo Interesting. Because for another major issue with the game is the narrative. I don't feel that the story is at all original, it is just a familiar trope of how we used technology to mess things up and the "dreams" are just a skin, it could equally well be set in some sort of alternative dimension. Almost all the "dreams" feature monsters that you have to avoid in some way, this is more of a dungeon cawl than anything resembling the majority of dreams that most folks who have not eaten too much cheese tend to have. All this is not helped by the average quality of the prose and the terrible presentation of the secret scripts book.
I am one of those that fall into the category that don't like TM. It may have colored my opinion but originally on release TM was super expensive, like $90-$100 and the components were trash. They are still trash, imo, unless you paid to upgrade them in the last KSer. From a mechanics side there are just too many cards for me to remember.
Mechanically I love it but I don't disagree with the rest.
Zombicide Black Plague interested me, but I'm super late to the party and can't justify the expense. Maybe if they ever do a reprint, but I'm 100% in if they ever do a pirate version. 😅
Ahahah terraforming mars I totally agree, I have a live and hate relationship with it that I kinda like the gameplay but at the same time doesn't really feel satisfying. The engine doesn't feel as satisfying as other engine building.
I'm currently on the fence with the KS all in marvel united. I have the base core box from Walmart and I play through all of it. I like the simplicity, but the replayability isn't there with just 3 villains. So I'm gonna go all in.
So just a question for you, the game that exits your collection where does it actually go? Do you gift it to friends or donate it ?
I found Zombicide 1st Edition at a garage sale for $5 a few months back... Me and my friends have had a blast, I love the open sandbox nature of it... And with a few house rules? The game has improved enough for us that I feel confident enough to hold off on Zombicide 2nd Edition for a while... But I definitely want that Wild West one! 🤣
I have definitely spent more on expansions for it though.
In regards to the art of Terraforming Mars, I think the term you're looking for is campy, appealing because of how bad it is.
Regarding Munchkin, I enjoy it, but I completely understand why people dislike it. A quick defense: it's not always about attacking the leader; if players negotiate well enough, they can accumulate enough loot at each step of the game to easily fight for lead. Core Munchkin is also great for how it riffs on D&D.
In terms of dislike, the game runs too long for what it is, Steve Jackson obviously milks the system with expansions and iterations, and there are plenty of mechanically better games out there. That being said, why are we trying to dictate how other people have fun? Totally agree with the concept of, "It's just not for me, but it might be for someone else."
I'm liking marvel United more now at heroic difficulty. Last 4 bosses came down to lat move like cthulhu dmd.
Hmmm...I just don't like the idea of removing the wilds.
So your number one is Wingspan and Jesse releases his video on the must have app for Wingspan.... Yin & Yang? 🐥
hmm... good cop, bad cop hehe
I like Stonemeier Games the way you like CMON games.. :-)
Lol nice :)
Great video, for me the most polarizing is Millennium Blades.
Interesting, in what sense?
@@BoardGameCo mostly for the theme of collectable card games, buy it also has a real time element and many many different effects and interaction. Most people i presented it to either loved it or disliked it, instead of a middle ground.