Race Tier List, Post-Patch 5.0 - Total War: Warhammer 3 Immortal Empires
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- Опубликовано: 14 май 2024
- The best races to play in a campaign in Warhammer 3 and the worst.
Also the ignored: Daniel.
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I completely disagree with you about Khorne. Skarbrand is there to smash everything and everyone. Not build an empire or an economy. Skulls for the skull throne!
They should get rid of his eco and have everything be skulls for him
His point is khorne is a shitty gimmick race and you agreed with him by pitching his tired catch phrase.
Bro said Valkia is the better korne faction since it has an iota of nuance as opposed to skarbrand's perpetual tard rage and only mechanic is spamming free waaagh armies, lol.
Very boring, only suitable for low skill ceiling gamers.
@daviddavidson6289 Calm down mate... 😂
Calm down mate... 😂
@@daviddavidson6289 but it is insane to call this race weak lol, in hands of a good player they will smash everything in their way.
Wow nice list! Everything is perfect, except when you start to put the factions in the tiers
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 I'm weak
Race tier list is crazy, Im telling twitter
Every corporation in America has already made their race tier lists nowadays 😂.
Khorne smells your fear
Sureeeee fan boyyy
fun fact they broke 1/4 of daniel; his nurgle units dont come in at full health even tho he recruits them like normal
Khorne to me is a supposed to be a mindless HULK SMASH campaign where you're just going in to chop heads and it does that perfectly with its unit roster and the free armies you get to keep the momentum and be super aggressive in the name of the skull throne. But I respect your opinion.
Whaaaaaat
All those downsides you list for Khorne are the positives!! Bloodhosts are super fun and having one super army is totally fine with me....
He clearly doesn’t know how to play Khorne properly
Costin with the insane takes once again holyyy
Skarbrand is like an interactive movie. Calling him weak is nuts.
Never let him cook again 🗣🔥‼️🔥‼️
Changes I would make personally:
DElves Perfect -> good (really need slace adjustments, nearly mediocore but good LL start positions)
Khorne Weak -> Mediocre (super fun mechanics but lacks variety and unit access)
Skaven good -> perfect (ridiculous variety in location and units)
HElves Good -> mediocre ( really lacks unique faction mechanics)
Beastmen Mediocre -> Good
Lizardmen Trash -> Weak (Good unit and LL variety but weak mechanics economy)
Let me know if you guys disagree/agree 😊
I have to agree... I don't really enjoy swarming, Skaven is good in a way that every skaven faction (especially because of the neighbours) does feel like a unique experience and you really have to use all their tools
And Khorne, well, that's the rare type of ''it is really well made but I don't like it at all'' category for me :D
I think you are playing Tzeench wrong if all you are doing is making melee blobs. They have great ranged options and magic. The horrors even increase your WoM recharge to make the magic spam more effective. It's a fair criticism to point out their starting location. I don't agree with anything else you said, though. Sure Gelt is OP now because of power creep, but I don't see how that makes Kairos trash somehow.
Kairos is super Strong. I play him regularly. His early game has some tricky Parts. After that the world is yours to play with.
Yeah, the changing of the ways is super flavorful too, it's amazing and it rewards roleplay. Thats probably why people who care about the meta of a singleplayer game dont like it.
Kairos is more like annoying to play as. Most of his special abilities cost way too many books and arent particularly impactful either. 'Stop faction' is the only useful one I remember using aside from stealing settlements.
You'll also be fighting *all* the lizardmen, because the southern Wastes are so long, you find both southern tips of Lustria and Southlands. And if you go that way (you most likely have to), you will also find pretty much all the high elves on your way too, even that one island chain off to the east from Southlands.
With the additions of Mutalith and Changebringers, theyre super powerful in battle though. But it also needs to be said Blue fire is almost worthless now, its been nerfed like 3 times. Pink fires and Infernal gateway are better Id say.
@@Grivehn Halt faction isn't a thing anymore since 4.0 It's stop army now. And there is another ability to refresh the movement of one of your armies called borrow time. Force peace and transfer settlements are also good ones.
I've pulled off the combo of taking a settlement with transfer settlement, attacking a settlement and then refreshing my movement to take a 2nd settlement all in the same turn multiple times. You can follow this up with force peace or halt armies to protect yourself on the next turn as well. Very useful for killing the high elves in that island chain and Ku'gath further north of that(who happens to be one of Kairos' victory conditions).
Plus there is always the cheese options of stealing a settlement and selling it back to who you stole it from. Gaining 10s of thousands of gold or even alliances and vassalizations in some cases.
Open gates and force rebelion are situationally good for dificult sieges as they damage walls and open the gates giving plenty of line of sight options for flamers and horrors to kill units behind the walls.
@@danielgloyd4529 Clearly you thought about it a lot, solid thoughts and combo, thank you.
I would add another "skull" to the edifice by disagreeing with you about Khorne. I love playing Khorne and being ultra aggressive, living constantly on the edge on the economy, encouraging being even more aggressive and faster. Skulls for the skull throne!
Khorne is perfectly fine as it is. He is after all an extremelly simple god: he likes destruction undiscriminated, blood spilled, and skull offerings. His followers just want to do that 24/7.
Oh shucks I thought Daniel would be strong and too easy 😔
I don't agree with you about Nurgle, its at least good, even perfect. The roster is great, the plagues are useful, the legendary lords are fun and very strong, especially the Maggot Lord. With his army of Ogres, Toad Dragons, Rot Knights, chieftains, I defeated 4 stacks of end game crisis dwarfs in one turn. Also they can spawn complete high end armies out of thin air, how many factions have that power?
8 vampire heroes can solo whole armies. When heroes are on foot and fighting in melee the enemy range units have no line of fire or shoot their own units in the back or face. Just use aoe spells to annihilate whole blobs.
Passive regen + heal skills after lvl 8 makes those heroes unkillable.
Only problem is heroes like karl franz who hit like a truck and have high def. Just surround them and hit from all sides, defense skill only applies to enemies in the front. If you hit anything from the back it's easier.
Isabella starts with 3 vampires I think? Has an unique building in their capital to increase it aswell. Also she buffs vampire heroes. Vampire heroes in campaign are overpowered. Always have vampires on foot even isabella and vlad.
Ah very nice, i love tier-lists ^^ ! GJ and thXX for the video !
How can you like aggression and not like khorne?
He probably has the strongest campaign in the game and can expand anywhere so you have lots of replayability
If he is like me, it may be because playing Khorne doesn't feel like playing a strategy game, but rather Subway Surfers :D
@@milansvancara khorne is not even one of my favorite factions and i still dont get it. When i played khorne it felt different than most campaigns and i thought that was cool. You dont really build settlements that much and instead focus on positioning and winning many battles in the same turn.
What would you change without making him very similar to a couple of other factions?
I feel like making him better at empire building for example would not make much sense since that would make him another "normal" faction but with stupidly strong mechanics and units
@@Pontiki-bv2ed No, I feel like Khorne is perfect for what it is, it definitely has its' aspects and niche and I see how someone can enjoy it, there are those days when you want just pointless fighting without thinking and sense of goal.
I just personaly don't enjoy it:)
(it was super fun first 15 turns, then it became very boring very fast and just mindless advancing).
TLDR: I don't want them to be reworked, they represent their niche perfectly, i just don't like the niche
What’s meta of Warhammer 3 , since you said it’s changed from ‘maintaining a couple of armies for much of the early game ? ‘. Ty for video
This is an interesting tier list to be sure, definetly a lot of suprises for example dark elves been perfect is not something I would ever say, I'd love to but I can't
Yeah im surprised too. They feel a bit out-dated and their campaigns dont have too much variety to their playstyles
@@tomevans1245 Yeah I always get bored quite quickly, Lokhirs is probably my favourite of the lot
Strong but boring, so next to WE and WoC on this list where Id put dark elves. Theyre really solid and can snowball quickly, but that doesnt mean *any* of their LL are fun on the campaign side. I cant think of a fun dark elf mechanic in the entire game.
Rakarth comes closest, but you really gotta tour the world to pick up the monsters you want, unless youre fine with the dinos, since you can pick those up the easiest due to his start location. (That goes for Wood elves and high elves too for that matter, CA hates elves.)
Compared to WH2 they seem watered down in some areas. Seems like chaos dwarfs got the slave economy upgrade instead of them.
10:25 Costin you and MANY other people on the forums have to realize that weak infantry isn't a weakness of the empire it is a FEATURE, the empire are just regular men and women fighting for their lives in a world where everything has super strength and immortality, the fact that they've survive as long as they have is amazing and a super strong shock trooper frontline would ruin their faction image.
Except Tzar Guard and Jade Warriors exist so...
Like the Drunk Russian Bear lovers have far better infantry!
@@Costin_GamingTrue! I get the feature aspect of it and the Empire having a more ranged focus, but they should at least have the capability to fight other infantry without the support of their guns :>
@@Costin_Gaming Kislev Lives in constant warfare with the chaos wastesand it makes sense that its people are more hardy, jade warriors I think you mean the celestial dragon guard as well are individuals hand picked from the best of the best soldiers in cathay and put into regiments.
The empire just doesn't do this because they have hundreds of massed troops who do the same jobs and actually do them almost as good.
By this I mean take a look at the gameplay, Yes Tzar guard and celestial guard outperform say halberdiers in most cases but look at their requirements.
Tzar and Dragon guard cost 250 and 263 in upkeep respectively while halberdiers cost 138, almost half of what the other two cost and really it only has one job keeping your guns safe. Not to mention the halberdiers get something that as far as I know neither cathay or Kislev get Charge defense against all.
That is important because the biggest killer for frontlines isn't cavalry but elite infantry like chosen, black orks, etc with their charge bonus's that aren't negated by regular charge defense. Also sure they have no shields but thats what your guns are for, kill the enemy ranged before they get to you or use your superb cavalry to destroy the (thats another argument I'd put forth that empire has better cavalry than both kislev and cathay)
Now greatswords? Yeah they sucuk, they've always sucked for empire because their an attempt to play on a strength that they don't have, the only situation I can see them as useful is in a siege and even they why use them and their 225 upkeep when you could just have some cheap spearmen and a unit of handgunners?
Exactly.
@@Costin_Gaming Jade Warriors aren't really that special. Kislev infantry is indeed uncharacteristically strong, but that's CA's error. Two wrongs do not make a right. The solution is to nerf Kislev infantry - not to buff Empire infantry.
Looking at this tier list Lizardman seem like a big outlier. They have a base game + 3 DLCs and are surrounded by races with either no extra content or shadows of change victims.
Lizardman really need the Dwarf treatment! A single unique mechanic would go a long way. Or even just buffing what they have. Both blessed units and the geomantic web are completely irrelevant.
Lizardmen have units, their doing good there, you put it exactly they need a rework.
yeah, honestly lizardman was one of the races that had great own campaign with some good mechanics but fall of in immortal empires :)
This is a wild tier list to me 😂
Who is playing khorne like a normal build an empire campaign?
I find playing on VH you get enough armies to spawn so you can conquer IE map under 30 turns.
Problem with them on lower difficulty there just isn't enough armies running around to keep the movement buff going.
N'kari has been easily my favourite of the WH3 campaigns since the beginning but man can it be painful. The poor Replenishment and Auto Resolve (esp against settlements) can make it a real chore.
N'Kari with Slanesh is a much stronger character and faction when you know how to use them. Once you get it, you roll over anyone to a point where N'kari can solo most battles on his own with his charge and regen when you exterminate units,
actually only half of the lizards heroes r tier 4 the skink chief is tier 2 and priest is tier 3 the scar vet and oracle r t4. what really needs to go is needing a secondary building for temple guard cold ones and sacred kroxigors. Their capitals r also extremely crowded they have the web building that basically needs to be in every city and then they have the weapons crafter and slaan building that while being tier 3 can only be in major cities and then also have 5 other military buildings that go above tier 3 not even counting all the major cities that have ports landmarks or resources reducing ur space even more. They also have no way to stack lord recruit rank past like 8 or 9 unless ur slaan or old bloods as kroqgar
priests need t4 to get capacity upgrades.
@@male_maid5951 true but early game u can get ur 1 at t3
completely disagree with khorne and you said they don't have replayability and isn't great for veteran players but legend of total war seems to have exactly the inverse opinion to yours and he is definitely a veteran player
Khorne has a well crafted campaign that incentivizes you to play into a very aggressive play style. It’s thematic and well designed in that it accomplishes its goal of getting the player invested into its play style.
I can understand not enjoying the play style but to claim that it’s poorly designed when it’s arguably the best race of all wh3 launch races just comes off as a bad take.
Also khorne has one of the best tech trees for any race period
34:40 Wow a preemptive attack on ppl calling out Khorne being better than you think.
Guess this is where we part ways.
how is that an attack?
I think thats just the reality that some people think khorne is amazing and some people think khorne sucks.
Didn't think I could disagree with almost all of these entirely, but I do
Yeah, some races ate shit since WH2, like vampire coast needs mods to be more viable, like 25% more range, being able to get the other LLs, better economy for examples. Khalids also used to have a mod in WH2 where you could give her access to spellcasting so she didn't fall behind all the other lords who could cast.
I know the whole "CA breaks my mods!" meme, but most mods aren't total overhauls and are self contained, so they don't break. It really doesn't take much to make some weak lords more playable, like Tretch boosting stormvermin to be good.
Just considering Tamurkhan, I would consider Nurgle to be at least A tier, but I haven't tried Khugath or Epidemius properly. However, now that Nurgle has more than one lord though, the cults appearing in territory with Nurgle corruption actually makes it possible to confederate the other two lords very easily. Overall I very much enjoy Nurgle now.
Early on, I think it's just best to play somewhat tall and not worry too much about mountain territory. You'll want to upgrade your first couple provinces early on anyways so you can get stronger units and higher levels of income. I think this playstyle complements Nurgle's theme fairly well. Once you start gaining access to more and better units, you can build whole armies instantly and Nurgle starts to snowball rather quickly.
You seem to have pulled a nerve with Khorne classification 😅
I feel like skarbrand should stack atrrition for either a razed settlement becoming a khorne one or winning a battle instead of a heardstone its unique and softens them might be neat
Khorne is one of the *easiest* factions to build a massive empire and unstoppable economy with. You literally just have a second, smaller army follow each of your "main" armies around. Main army Attacks and Sacks/Razes, depending if you need gold or skulls at that moment, the central settlement in the province, and the second army occupies/colonizes afterwards. Then you put in the building that gives a % chance to colonize neighboring settlements, and wait for your free buildings. Khorne makes almost as much gold as Orks do when Sacking, so you shouldn't have a problem running at a negative income from time to time.
What is tero shield formation ?
Khornes campaign is exactly what it should be! Is it fun for everyone? maybe not. Still it is fine as it is and they have a unique player experience. Trying and thinking to be as aggressive as possible all the time no matter what, playing ping pong from city to city feels great and they are damn strong! They don't need to update them for now, others need it way more.
And regards Norsca, this is the only faction that never had a DLC since Warhammer 1. It is like a running gag, somehow it feels like they dont even belong into the game anymore.
Kislev is far from trash, after the updates they became very strong in my opinion.
I am Vampire counts fan, I really want them to receive some sort of update to bloodlines for example, and add more units, like I mean look at Champions of undeath mod for TTW3
I hate to agree but definitely agree with Ni'kira and Khorne campaigns for immortal empire. I don't know why but outta all race those two are the ones i'm struggling the most! Not even chaos dwarfs, or warrior of choas gives me a hard time to get the ball rolling. But both khorne and slaanesh, it's very difficult to get things started, i notice that for khorne, he starts in an awkward position where you can't travel far enough to attack a settlement to i ended up wasting more turns than i should, on top of that for trying to "make a settlement" the game punishes you for doing so khorne you rely on destroying/razing settlement while slaanesh rely of vasslelize other faction and as you said in the video you work for it!
You should do a ranking of each LL! Might take a while though 😂
I think all chaos factions should get the chaos invasion mechanic and randomly spawn in 5 doom stacks at a certain point and keep spawning until everything is destroyed. Let you actively control the end times destruction and give you a limitless supply of armies to see it happen
I think the way to fix Khorne (other than MUCH needed LLs and a few diverse monsters they are missing) is to have them build something on the ruins, that upgrades to add combat bonus's, or other benefits and allows recruiting. Since they are themed for destroying, this could replace expansion while keeping things thematic. I know its similar to herdstones, but hey, if its not broken......
The best way would probably to make them cumulative, but keep the numbers low so that owning half the map doesnt make you too overpowered, but stronger and scarier the more you conquer in a balanced way (well, as balanced for asymmetric warfare as you can get....) Perhaps these destroyed regions could spawn random daemonic stacks or something that go after anything that gets near them? (INCUDLING the Khorne player, because he does not care from whence the blood flows)! I'm sure better minds out there could perfect such an idea....Adding those cumulative benefits to both the Khorne player AND those stacks could be a great way for risk-reward during expansion maybe?
Cant you recruit extra heros at t3 ports with vampire coast?
I think just the fleet captains, gunnery wights and mournghouls you have to make pirate cove structures for. So either you piss off a faction you leave alive to crawl up your ass later, or you eventually wipe it out and lose your hero unit cap. It's not the best system, lol.
Personally as someone who enjoyed Rome 2 a lot, I enjoyed the hell out of the Ice Court campaign as Kislev. Lots of challenge but the army roster (especially seeing those stretsi volleys) makes it worth every second.
It's interesting to hear how differently you view what makes a campaign interesting to play from how I see things.
Valid list, well argued and I completely disagree on quite a few counts. Like your criticism of Empire infantry for example - I'd hate it if every race had a tool for every occasion. I find the more lopsided races the most interesting in a lot of ways - anything that forces me to adapt to a different playstyle is a plus in my book. Oddly enough I do agree with your top picks though - I also find those races the most enjoyable to play in campaign.
Press F for Daniel
Kislev devotion becomes meaningless too fast. You end up with nothing to do with the devotion points.
My lizardmen campaign rework is simply to make sanctums a race mechanic (no capstones) and to make kroxigor lords into horde armies like nakai's with a cap on how many you can have..since early game theyre the best but late game they're meaningless
Id also lump saurus, temple guard, and cold on cav into the same box in the skill tree red line buffs the way that skinks are all lumped in because honestly if you're not spamming skinks youre just wrong and its because of the falloff of saurus+their bad synergies
Maybe make bastilodons hired in groups of 3 instead of as sems with each being about a third as strong, would be more interesting on variant bastilodons and would have them off the sem cap for mp
Mazda gets some form of terraforming and crazy mage mechanics
Kroqgar and gorrok with the aforementioned buffs would be great
Give nakai an awakening dillema later in campaign where he gets to confederate his vassal and starts managing all that land, keeping the crazy garrison buildings (have them replace wall buildings)
I do have a few key things I can say about some of these races that I think would make for some amazing gameplay...At least, to me. I'll start with the race I enjoy the units most for...
Ogres: I love them, they can be fun in fighting, but they need help.
01. Starting with the simple changes, I think they need buffs on their stat lines or numbers to make them more viable With a bulk of them being low model count and large targets they need more bite to back them up. Make Ogre Charge only lose 25% or even negate charge defense entirely to make them even scarier, make their Ogres have higher melee attack and boost the stats of the Maneaters and the higher tiers. Make the Lead Belchers able to attack walls and towers, etc. These types of buffs are the most preliminary buffs they need.
02. Buildings in the Mountains of Mourn should be Ogre paradise. Not all these four slot settlements, but proper provinces with a nice, beefy capital area as a big camp of sorts where you can not only hire in big units without a camp nearby, but your allies in Co-Op can hire in the best Ogres money can buy. A simple change, but a welcomed one.
03. Camps are next on the list. The idea of camps as 'create a fortress' isn't bad by any means, but I think a mod called 'The Great Ogre-Haul' got it right when they made them movable forts which could be set up and shuffled around as you expanded is exactly what I think camps should be treated as. Make them mobile meat larders, recruitment, and generally a good way to cause headaches for foes abroad or make them hard-to-topple defenses at home.
04. The contracts need an overhaul, badly. However, I think the way to fix it is by leaning into a mix of Oxyotl and Snikitch's mechanics. You get contracts periodically from groups you are not hostile with, local or abroad, that has one of a small handful of general missions and maybe 'bonus' objectives. The bigger ones are 'Break Siege' which is what is says on the tin, they pay you to have your army assist in battle for a siege. Join Siege, same concept but in reverse. And lastly: Campaign Abroad. Minor objectives in it are 'Kill Lord' 'Kill Hero' or 'Kill Powerful Unit' to name a few. In all three you choose a contract, assign an army, and send them out which they'll disappear during the end turn as they are in-transit to the battlefield. Depending on mission they'll appear over the end turn (to break or support siege) or at the start of your next turn (Campaign Abroad). At the end of their mission they can or will be recalled back to Ogre Lands over the next turn or two to get home. For the mission 'Campaign Abroad' your army is teleported to the edge of the enemy territory, placed temporarily 'at war' with the target culture, and you are essentially encouraged to raid, sack, raze, or even capture settlements to harm and hamper the enemy force you are paid to fight (which if you capture during the contract you hand it over to your contractor). The more you disrupt, the more you're paid, and at the end of your contract you'll get the gold, meat, and likely items from outside the Ogre Loot Table as a reward (Prospector's Eyeglass is the best one I can think of on short notice) before your army is teleported back and the 'at war' status is deactivated. For players, if they have no hostile relations with the Ogres and are diplomatically available, you can hire them to do the same to your enemies or your cities for a large sum of money (Just as the AI can pay huge sums to send Ogres after you).
The first three things I think are easy enough that it could be solved and implemented within a week or two, the last one would be where the bulk of the work needed to be done. What do you all think?
Solid suggestions, I have some of the same in mind.
Not sure how Dogs of War will work when they get added, but as Ogres I think you should be *forced* to be at least neutral with every amenable race, so they can keep giving you contracts. Unless you choose otherwise and attack them directly.
Its really dumb how most Order races have big aversion to ogres. Skrag is just a typical baddie campaign, unless you try really hard to stay friendly to Emp and Dwarfs. Its way easier to ally the Greenskins, which is dumb.
@@Grivehn I think that'll be a good suggestion, actually.
Fix the aversion to where the Ogres are pretty neutral with everyone (Save for maybe Chaos Dwarves, Cathay, and maybe undead) to make them a bit easier on the diplomacy side?
An odd question, but what would you think about making the Ogre Camps less a 'you make one' and more a 'You upgrade a Lord into one' so-to-speak? Allowing you to convert your higher level Lord into a mobile fortress or self-sustaining horde to go abroad in campaigns?
@@Project129 Once Lords get immortality, they become a horde like Vcoast or Malakai? That would be cool. Although not sure it can work that way, maybe they need to have that mechanic from lvl1. But the higher level camps could be tied to leveling them up. (Just not too high, ppl mostly play short campaigns after all...)
What tier list?
I don't know how you're playing Ogres, but I can send you a turn 20 campaign save with this current iteration with a lvl 4 camp on Immortal Empires, and just be killin it. Everything else I agree with otherwise, cept beastmen, The brass bull is fun
I was also surprised by how fast Ogre camps got to tier5. And whilst their melee ogres are not great in small numbers, in greater numbers... not to mention sieges are no issue for Ogres either.
I actually found them super powerful in battles, as soon as I ditched crappy gnoblars and regular ogre bulls. Those are trash.
Which means I was rewarded for creating powerful late game armies, so I had less armies. But thats fine with me, however Id claim thats the way to go with ogres atm. I'll say they lack in a lot of aspects though. Bounties, the fact your cant move camps, weak LL... To me theyre better than Norsca (Norsca continent itself being an awful start position, and Monster Hunts are still not working add to that), but not by much.
@@Grivehn The way I think they're envisioned is to bully trade convoys, accept non-aggression pacts to only raid in your lands (like a bully) and accept peace treaties for the money and continue to raid your lands (like a real jerk) whilst they literally are campin at the border of your territories just laughing... when the AI gets fed up with me, they declar war and then I fight em at my camp, etc etc.. sack their settlements and the process starts all over. Until I get all my camps up this is the bulk of the shenanigans.. The only thing I think that needs to be reworked for the Ogres is their contracts system, it's really an afterthought and rarely is it something I benefit from because of the style of how the Ogre's play, they aren't like Greenskins, tearing through lands sacking along the way, but instead. Ogre's remind me of vikings from IRL history, showing up to pillage and sack, and maybe they set up a camp to continue to do so, accepting a "treaty" to only continue to raid your lands because why not? and then go back home when they get bored.
hard disagree on norsca, they have good economy, The best tech tree and very fun monster hunting. they need some love from CA but they are for sure not trash.
Helman Ghorst should be in the "Strong and too easy" tier itself despite being a vampire count faction. xD
I hate jungles. Not for the campaign. Jungle battle maps are awful
I agree although I guess it’s like a real jungle . What’s really fun is trying to use Vamp coast on a map that’s 100% hills and trees against dinosaurs 🦖🤓🤠
@@bobthor9647 yep.
Nurgle being so low is crazy. It’s easy S tier if you have a clue how to play it and where to expand
The tier list is build to be subjective. I also think Nurgle is in a great place and Tamurkhan is one of my favorite campaigns, but I can see some people not enjoying it.
Especially if you are not making great use of plagues and their unique recruitment system I can see how someone could find it boring.
@@ondrejbronec837 it’s definitely a faction that take time to master and understand how to get the busted economy I agree
@@hknova683 my only complaint is the climate issues honestly, my Ku'gath campaign felt so thematic to Nurgle in terms of playstyle and power.
@@totalkhaos189 while it’s not ideal, expanding in the mountain would be a bad choice anyway. The best option is to expand into cathay. The mountains will make you vulnerable on 2 flanks
Tamurkhan's economy with the shifting plagues and his -25% upkeep reduction which worked in mysterious ways definitely made it unreliable long-term for me. One moment I have +3k income, the next moment -500.
Add to that, that Nurgle armies and buildings cost an arm and a leg, I do wonder how you get massive economy. Its cool that you can summon armies out of thin air with reasonable amount of hp with enough units in the pool, but other than that their campaign power I found very limited.
If plagues could be put on enemy armies and settlements, would be better... I almost never fought an enemy army which contacted a plague of mine. The vanguard deployment plague did help me out a bunch though. On battlefield theyre strong, especially Tamurkhan.
Are they done with DLCs? I love norsca but you're 100% right they desperately need some help.
I try to get into Khorne, and I can't. I don't like the blood hosts. I don't like not being able to recruit armies and build units. Every incentive is to move fast and blow everything up - that's just not how I play.
Vanilla Skaven do feel weaker in Wh3 than 2 but they do have a lot of campaign tools. Nothing a little Thanquol won’t fix. Yes-Yes
Hard disagree on the Tzeentch placement! Changeling I’ve played a bit, but Kairos campaign ime has really slapped! Their melee is fine but I love their range and focus on magic. With the reworked Gelt it’s super satisfying to burn a path of change all the way from the most southern point of the map to Cathay for a showdown!
TK in low tier LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING, LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING, LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING
My main gripe with HElves is their racial mechanics, when they have them they feel dated, not Tomb Kings dated but still. Court intrigue might aswell not exist, Alarielle travelling across Ulthuan? Neat I guess. Alith Anar, Eltharion and Imric are allright, which makes them the only reasonable choise and none of them begin on Ulthuan-ish.
Skarbrand is one of the most fun and powerful factions, is so easy to sack and raze everything. Also your are not poor at all, sacking makes a lot of money. My only problem with it is not being able to sack and raze on the same turn, really slows down your rampage if you want to clean up everything
I watch your videos regularly, and especially at the beginning i was disagreeing in most stuff you say, but with time to think about it and how ToD turned out.. i can really relate to how and why you think like that. And nowadays i can agree in almost evertyhing you say. Even the Tier list i agree a 100%. Especially with said reasons for your rating. Everytime i see people calling you out because of "Lore" reasons or why factions like tzeentch are "S" - tier (laughing in empire rework) i think to myself: "If people like this would be the ones CA is listening to... ToD and its massive success would never have happend".
Wow...that's an amazing compliment. I'll cherish this one.
@@Costin_Gaming Hope you do, you became a very important part of the Community, with all the best in mind for the Players and enjoyment of the Game. Keep it Up costin!
Vampire counts did get a rework though there is the entire blood kiss mechanic they added
Yeah sure
Though absolutely not on the level of others.
Yeah that's fair keep making content man I love watching your channel
Laughs in LegendofTotalWar
Swap Lizardmen and Betonia around. Lizardmen have unique mechanics for Oxy, Nakai and Tehenuhain (Lizard moses... dunno how to spell). Others are bare bones but that isnt a bad thing as it is variety in itself - but do have unique base mechanics as well. Bretonia I may be biased, but they just seem weak and the campain isn't very interesting?
I agree with most of these but I disagree with a few. nurgle is great, especially if you know what your doing especially with my boi the green shreck on his trusty toad donkey, and ghorst still has a stupid amount of healing(compare him to festus or hellbrass) and gold tooth can print money by turn 20 with a a tier 4 camp in the right spot. I wish I liked khorne more I find them a bit rough to play
Mostly agree other than Khorne and Tomb Kings.
A wonderful list. I agree with virtually every placement. The only strong disagree is that I think you discount Lizardmen a bit overmuch.
Lizards are perfect for battle and absolutely horrendous on campaign map. That goes for a bunch of races which got lower results and I can also agree with that sentiment. Not everyone have to have Ikit workshop, but they should have *something* and that something should feel fun and not repetative.
All races should have the difficulty of Norsca without the bugs. Just fighting adversities when the deck is stacked against you. Favorite race, been playing them all the time repeatedly.
NORSCA!!
I fail to see how the Greenskins and Grimgor have a top tier campaign in WH3. You are surrounded by chaos dwarves, ogres, nurgle, and lots of red climates. Everyone declares war on you and you cant use diplomacy with most of them. Sure its a good challenge but there really isnt any variety in campaign direction. It would fun if they good mechanics but just doing WAAAGH over and over on the same factions gets boring quick. Malaki has a somewhat similar start but he can actually settle provinces, doesnt suffer from attrition, can move accross the map quick, and actually has campaign direction built into the rework. If Malaki and the dwarves is S tier than the Greenskins are B tier at the most.
What about a Tier List strongest-weakest races in singleplayer campaign? And then a Tier List strongest-weakest races in multiplayer battle? I appreciate your opinion, but this video is, as you yourself said, nothing more than a personal opinion, which in a lot of ways is a matter of taste. If you ask 100 people you're going to have 100 different rankings on this tier list, while objectively strongest-weakest races in singleplayer campaign & objectively strongest-weakest races in multiplayer battle will have some kind of overlap between different players.
I have 20k hours in all three games. When you said Gelt campaign is the op mage campaign... I knew you knew wtf you were talking about with all this. lol
Napalm goes places.
for me cathay would be at HE place. they have better start more allies and better mechanics (with yuan bo). He are boring i have way more fun with any herman gorst campain that any he lord. especialy as not frustrating as eltharion.
Khorne is so easy to play lol probably the best race in the game. I typically feel a sense of fear when i fight malus or grimgor... but not when i have skarbrand 😂
The only reason i see why GW would hold back old world content is so they can seel us an Old World game or expansion
I think the only think who lack in your tier list is the "coop" playability. Playing two chaos dwarf is...beyond horrible(for example)
Probably because playing coop is very niche in this game due to it being full of errors, lag and disconnects. And as you say, nothing is made sure to work for multi campaigns.
Just watched HumanBoy Yes Yes and RadiantAsh yesterday playing head to head. Ash kept bringing Gelt into ambush stance to avoid HumanBoy's Eshin assassins. It was really janky, and there is no way using heroes should work like that with simultaneous turns, where you can run away from your opponents in real time.
the way you pronounce chaos is criminal
Why do you even play the game if you hate everything so much?
"Why aren't you putting hecking sparkles on everything, amg this vid is so negative and toxic, I can't even rn"
No, I agree, this is valid criticism. A lot of this guys videos have an unfortunate negative tone that makes them hard to watch.
Yes, this guy's opinions on a lot in this game is...weird for me. Like for instance describing intended racial weaknesses that limit the race in some manner and then creating entire videos dedicated to describing it as an 'issue' that should be fixed. Let's just buff everything and make every faction more op and campaigns easier than they already are.
@@user-ws8fd7lp7p yes, he cares too much about the meta of a single player game. And calling flavorful mechanics that are core to the very essence of the game annoying and trash.
Boris is the most fun Kislev Campaign.
The main places I disagree are lisardmen being trash and dark elves being good. I think that dark elves in wh3 are far less fun than wh2. Also for lizardmen, I'd say they have 3 good campaigns: Oxyotl like you said, but also Cult of Sotek, and Itza. Meanwhile the campaign is far worse for dark elves than it used to be because of how their public order and slave economy has been handled. Most of the rest I agree with though.
Highly disagree on VC being a good race lol. You have 0 campaign mechanics, your entire roster is useless cause all you do is spam 2 units. The whole campaign is single-handedly carried by the legendary lords and the special bloodline lords.
I think he’s ranking them mostly on overall strength instead of fun/faction mechanics and roster variety. Vampire Counts can be a slog and needs a rework and probably a DLC but they’re still very strong. The raise dead mechanic is crazy strong and will make it so you basically don’t need recruitment buildings, their lords and heroes are some of the best in the game, great economy, insane replenishment, vampire magic, and yeah a lot of their units are trash in the early to mid game but you’ll have sooooooooooooo many skeletons and zombies that it won’t matter. Roster needs some improvements and additions to be sure, but I honestly kind of like the big power gap between lord and unit in VC roster. It’s thematic that the super powerful vampire/necromancer would be the powerhouse and the core of the army THEY raised from the dead
man the Grombrindle Campaign is the easiest Dwarven campaign now.
Bretonia above Korn😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
They're fun to be honest, since the knights got an upgrade.
I’d say Bretonia is pretty good but against Khorne- they might have some trouble 😅
For the lady!
@@houdini_9150 Louen + a couple of hippogriph knights + a whole bunch of grail knights for the epic charge = no more Khorne. Woopwoop!
@@jonstalin5992 Skaven are far more annoying for Bretonnia than Korne in my eyes. Their stupid lightning spell...
Poor Daniel
New Empire is definitely better than Dark Elves. Gelt might as well be order tide Belakor. Very overpowered
I mean that's moreso Gelt being....Gelt.
Elspeth and Karl Franz I found to be very strong too. Even AI Volkmar and Markus in my campaigns seem to be thriving.
Not my tomb kings!
for real fuck that changeling campaign
I pray to god CA doesn’t listen to this guy. The coldest takes.
Perfect Dark elves?
Tomb kings, tzeench almost as bad or worse than Norsca and Ogres?
And god that khorne rating… does he want them to be the same as every faction?
I mean besides Khorne and Dark Elves ( and only to a degree really with DE ) most of what I picked here stacks up to how a lot of people about this in virtually every poll I've done.
DE can be boring in their campaigns, but that's more so down LL design not the race.
This man hates all my favourite campaigns. Kairos, Wulfric, and Katarin.
Your About says United States of America.
But my guess is Romania.
Well yeah, that's just for YT to show my vids to intended audience.
@@Costin_Gaming I think Total war is more UK audience, no? Or maybe not, I don't know.
These khorne worshippers big mad 😂.
Can we get one of these for RL 😅
IM JOKING!
Absolutely wrong on Vamp Coast. Easily Medicore faction. Their range units are superior to almost any other one, they do have decent melee units and Queen Bess might be the best Artillery Unit of the whole game. So wrrrrrrong unfortunately.
At the same time Vampire Counts are Good Tier although they completely lack range units which will make any battle against armies with range units difficult + you have to attack
Also the campaign mechanics of Bretonia are very limiting. If you have too many peasant units your economy will suck + hard access to knights. Bretonia is clearly Trash. It’s no coincidence that Bretonia is always one of the first factions to be destroyed in the campaign
Completely disagree on Kislev
dark elves as perfect but beastmen in mediocre is a terrible choice, slave mechanic of dark elves is way worse than warhammer 2
People need to stop spreading this.
Instant construction, printing money, huge control benefits, huge growth benefits.
Better? For a long campaign perhaps it was in WH2, but the early game benefits in 3 are much more substantial and remain strong throughout a campaign.
The grudge system is bad. Until it fixed dwarfs are good.
Dark elves are mediocre because they lack replayability. Hellebron faction sucks hard. Malekith should have some unique campaign with conquering Ulthuan, but he's just a generic faction. Morathi should have seduction mechanics and more Slaanesh units, but she's fun anyway. Malus is better to be confederated because his faction mechanics makes the player suffer. Lokhir and Rakarth are okay.
Vampire counts... no way that they're good. They have no replayability. They should have better roster and CoC DLC with different bloodline factions that play differently. Vlad should have some mechanic about conquering the empire to become an emperor. Right now, VC are generic af. They need a rework.
Bretonia is weak. No replayability, 4 factions without unique mechanics (Alberic, wtf are you doing in jungles, bro?), weak roster. Yes, cavalry is good, and they have okay tier 1 bowman, but that's it. They're boring. Their economy is strong. But Bretonia is just bad right now. And I wish Bretonia to be way better in the future.
Beastmen are perfect. There is no way they can be better. CA has done an incredible job to make one of the worst factions in tabletop and in the lore fun.
I heard your opinion about Slaanesh, and I just can't agree with it at all. Slaanesh doesn't need a rework. Slaanesh just needs a new DLC without changing his economy or mechanics. I'd say Slaanesh is almost perfect. Seduction mechanic is fun. Easy vassalization is good and brings a lot of replayability that can close gaps in the roster. The economy is okay. On battlefield, Slaanesh is really good.
I can't say that Khorne is weak, but I agree with you that Khorne should be more than Scarbrand beating everyone, and he doesn't even need an army. It's boring and tedious gameplay with blood hosts. But his roster is strong af without variety. He needs some improvements.
Lizardmen need some unique mechanics to factions (Kroq-Gar even doesn't have his unique skill line lol), proper geomantic web system, and more suitable climate for some factions. Maybe they need some deeproots stance or something that would speed them up on the global map in the jungles. They don't need anything to their roster. They don't need another LL. LH, maybe. Pretty much every race should change their heroes so they could buff your army. Add this, and they would be perfect race.
Tzeench has some Troy issues. His gameplay on a global map is fun (except for the economy), but his battles are boring. Why TF Tzeench not have access to all base lores of magic? Why is Balthasar Gelt a better mage faction than fricking God of magic faction? Tzeench is my favourite, but I feel pain seeing all this bullcrap. Where is Egrimm van Horstmann, and why does Aekold not have his separate Tzeench faction?
Wood Elves. I don't like their economy and their outposts. It's boring that you have a few megacities and no proper cities. In other ways, they're good.
I agree with else.
1st one is "Beastmen are Mediocre"... aaaand I'm out 🤣🤣 has this guy even played the game? They wander in hordes and strike from ambushes and the more suffering and fear they sow among men the stronger they become. Mechanically you have a lot of freedom and a lot of choices competing for your resources. And they are strong as hell.
L takes you might need to replay all the campaigns again