Option 1: Go back and show the PAT. Option 2: Split-screen the PAT. Option 3: Don't show the PAT. Option 4: Tape the PAT and alert all the network affiliates that there is an additional bit of game footage they have to air. Then, after the local news has ended, show the PAT on tape delay.
The problem with option 2 besides what was noted is that there were (and still are) some ABC stations without news (most infamously KDNL in St. Louis, though they did at the time), and their ability to show a split-screen may have been limited because they really didn't have the ability to show a split-screen, much less a ticker. And if they did, often it was only for a weather event, AND with the loud tone that indicates a weather warning. So some of these stations didn't have the ability to split-screen. So in that case, you either have to load a 'Jacksonville just came back to kick the Point After Touchdown under the rules of the NFL, the final score was 30-21'...and you might have to awkwardly load that into the weather or snow closing ticker, and get 'why did you use a weather warning to update the score?!' complaints. Plus at around that time, the weather segment usually occurs in the local news 15 minutes in. You tell your weatherman 'we gotta stop 'cause ABC needs to show this PAT' and you're getting an FCC fine from the meteorologist cursing you out on-air for bad programming judgement. 😂 Along with viewers on the non-news ABC station whose syndicated sitcom was interrupted for a PAT. Finally for option #1...that network switch calling the entire network back to the network feed could not have been used in that situation. You get enough angry people calling ABC stations when their soaps get interrupted for a political or breaking news story. For a PAT kick, though? The master control operator is looking at that notice to go back to the network and outside Jacksonville and Pittsburgh, laughing it off and ignoring the signal. And if I'm not mistaken, the ABC affiliate in Jacksonville (which had only been launched a year before) was absolutely a non-factor to viewers outside ABC programming (they became owned by the NBC affiliate two years later and killed what little of their news department had come online), so they tuned out of their newscast immediately because those viewers just didn't have any trust in a very new news operation. Even if WJXX had gotten notice the PAT was kicked later during their post-game coverage and those few viewers went to bed knowing the correct score, most of their audience had already gone to bed or were onto Leno or Letterman on the higher-rated NBC and CBS stations, and those stations figured a note during the morning news would suffice over a ticker announcement since the point didn't cost the Jaguars the game.
Option 4 would have been perfect. After the news, all of the affiliates would have returned to network programming anyway (Nightline on the East Coast, other network programming out West). ABC could have easily did this
@@augustuscaesar9995 This makes so much more sense; even if Nightline was delayed, every ABC station has to carry it, and it would've made for a fun 'kicker' to the end or start of Nightline. Surprised they didn't try to do this (unless Al and the gang already were headed to the airport, which may have ruled it out).
What even are the rules these days? People seem to just make them up depending on how they feel at that particular moment. Not just in sports but in life.
ABC was in no way breaking the contract, the NFL signaled the end of the game by having the participants leave the field. It is not ABC's responsibility to administer the rules of the game.
I absolutely remember this happening. It's amazing that they didn't change the rule about kicking the extra point after time expired after this game. Great video coverage of this game, too. And bringing up "teaser card" was excellent context that was a factor...and I'm surprised that Hollis kicked the extra point as opposed to just taking a knee or getting hurt kicking the point. But no footage to show any of it...and yes, this wasn't the fault of ABC...the refs needed to know this simple rule. Loved this video--Really did your homework here. Great job :)
At this point, net points was relatively high on the list. As we saw in the previous post mentioned, it's why Pittsburgh ended up winning the division. For that reason, I'm actually somewhat surprised Jacksonville didn't go for 2, especially since intercepted 2 point plays couldn't even be returned at this point. But I'm not surprised they kicked it. Especially early in the season, you never know when that extra point might matter. The NFL later moved net points down the list. So with later plays when a TD got scored and time expired but the extra point was still required (like the fail mary), the teams were more inclined to take a knee.
The extra point legally has to compliment the TD even after time expires, because it's "part or the TD". If it's a 6-point game and tied with the 6 points they would need it. In a case like this or in sudden death, it becomes completely redundant. But there ARE situations where it's important and necessary (Steelers V Packers 2009 for example)
It wasn't at all zeros, but the very first one after the NFL implemented the defensive conversion is that very example. Saints/Broncos 2016: Broncos up 23-17, Saints tie it with a Brees TD to Brandin Cooks, only for the Broncos to block the XP and Justin Simmons takes it back for two. Broncos win 25-23. Saints actually did it themselves a few weeks later vs Carolina, but not in the same spot.
@@SuperTugz Yes but I'm assuming if the TD only tied the game and the PAT was needed to win it, you wouldn't have the teams and fans clearing the field with the network signing off. I'd even go as far as to say if the score is within 2 points on either side, make the PAT get kicked. A team up 2 can theoretically have a return against it and even if all they'd do is take a knee, that can get botched. So at least make that necessary. But when there's literally no time on the clock and the lead/deficit is more than 3 points, there's no need for it. And as far as the PAT being "part of the TD," OK. But touching all 4 bases is part of the home run. But there have been instances when that wasn't plausible so the umpires had the discretion to say the run counted. Hell, the NBA let a whole 45 seconds of a game go unplayed because a riot broke out. Even when things settled down, the game was out of hand so they just decided to let the remaining seconds go unplayed. While I appreciate the need to maintain the rules, I don't think the PAT is any more sacred than either of those situations.
Just watched this complete game and even Al Michaels said twice "There's supposed to be an extra point attempt, but don't count on it" as the closing credits were playing and highlights of the game were being shown
@Leo Getz I finally found the game footage and Al Michaels did say that. Al Michaels was the only one who got it right. Do you think that the following week they said that they kicked the extra point from the previous week?
I watched this game, and remember going crazy when the Jaguars blocked the kick and ran it back. I literally never knew about the extra point chaos. I miss those great Jags teams.
I can’t imagine if you bet money on it lol. I bet money on the Minneapolis Miracle. The Vikings were -5.5. I took the Saints. I remember freaking out when they scored the touchdown, then freaking out even more when I thought they were gonna kick the PAT, thus making it a 6 point victory which would mean I would lose. They kneeled on it and I won.
Nice Hartford Whalers throwback. All I remember about them is the goalie for my team scored the only goal of his career, an empty netter, against you guys haha.
Not surprising the League made the play continue when for all intents and purposes it was pointless. 4 years later, during the "Bottlegate" game, they still made both teams go out 20 minutes later (this time in a near full riot) solely for a kneeldown. Kind of funny how both games involve the Jags.
Bottlegate was the last time the Jaguars played a division game against the Browns. Needless to say, the Jaguars, actually being on the Atlantic Coast, never made sense in the AFC Central. But the NFL has always been weird with geography. Like the Dallas Cowboys being in the NFC East despite being west of every North and South Division team in the conference, It was worse when the Rams were in St. Louis, as the 4th-westernmost NFC team during that time, the Cowboys should have been in the NFC West. Now they should be in the NFC South.
@@LogoAttitude Between 1995 and 2001, the NFC East had 2 teams west of the Mississippi (Dallas and Arizona), while the NFC West had 3 (New Orleans, Atlanta, and Carolina). At this point, the NFC South is the successor to the old NFC West and the current NFC West is the new division. A somewhat more accurate geographical divisional map would be (with no conference changes) NFC East: NY, Philadelphia, Washington, Carolina NFC North: Stays the same NFC West: Stays the same NFC South: Dallas, New Orleans, Tampa, Atlanta AFC East: New England, Buffalo, NY, Baltimore AFC North: Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Indianapolis AFC West: Stays the same AFC South: Miami, Houston, Jacksonville, Tennessee
@@timfortune9 if we want to be truly accurate, then Carolina goes to the AFC South, Baltimore to the NFC East, KC to the AFC North, Pittsburgh to the AFC East and Houston to the AFC West (being further west than KC)
It was NOT pointless. Points are used for tiebreakers and in 1997, that same season, the Steelers edged out the Jaguars for the AFC Central crown because of points! You guys saying the EP is pointless are morons who can't see the bigger picture. And yes, points are STILL used as tiebreakers in the NFL.
@@encycl07pedia- Points aren't as high on the tiebreaker list anymore because now every pair of teams in the same division has 12 games against common opponents each year, and every pair of non-division opponents within the same conference has 5 games against common opponents each year. This is a result of the realignment into 8 4-team divisions in 2002 and the scheduling rotation introduced because of it. The common opponents tie-breaker is used more often as a result.
To be honest, Option #2 was feasible considering the ‘94 NBA finals was preempted for the OJ chase, with the game placed in the small PiP box. But yea…glad the nfl got rid of this dumb PAT rule that had no outcome on the game.
NBC took a fair amount of criticism for that though. Even that was a different situation. That was a sporting event interrupted by non sports news (well, non sports-ish news, given that it was OJ). But obviously they couldn't just ignore the OJ event. They may be able to get away with it now, put the news or game on a streaming service or satellite channel. Doing a split screen would look particularly bad if some serious news story was being reported and a meaningless PAT was on the other end.
Feasible, technically, but ABC doesn’t control local late news, the affiliates do. NBC could show both OJ and the Finals because they were likely being operated out of the same broadcast center. ABC would have to ask every station in the country airing news at that time to put the network feed in a PIP, and it’s possible not every station has technical directors that can handle that request in a timely manner. ABC would be better off taking back full control or doing nothing.
It was a good rule. It was consistent and less confusing. I got confused after they removed it. It messes with stats and scores. Just because some people think it's boring or "anticlimactic" doesn't mean it's bad. "A PAT attempt occurs after every touchdown" vs. "A PAT attempt occurs after every TD unless the TD is scored with no time left AND it has no bearing on the outcome of the game." It's like all the additional BS astronomy used to do to classify Pluto as a planet even though it never should have been one.
@@encycl07pedia- It was a terrible rule. I don't see how it messes with scores at all. Hell, the rule you are defending did exactly that. The game the video mentions should've ended when everybody thought it did but nope they had to kick a meaningless extra point that does nothing but pisses everybody off. No team wants to kick a meaningless extra point hence why in the later years of the rule when a meaningless extra point had to be kicked teams usually just took a knee instead of attempting to kick the extra point.
@@thephoenixxm4160 Are you trolling or are you really so dense that you don't understand that the new rules penalize teams that happen to score a TD on the last play of the game? Points are not meaningless. They may not change the outcome of ONE SINGLE GAME, but they can change the outcome OF THE ENTIRE SEASON! Scores are used in tiebreakers. The EXACT REASON why 11-5 Pittsburgh won the AFC Central over 11-5 Jacksonville WAS BECAUSE OF POINTS! They were tied until it came down to POINTS! Only stupid people think it was a stupid rule.
I remember when the Miracle at the Met took place in 1980 (Ahmad Rashad's last-second touchdown vs. the Browns), the officials made both teams come back out to attempt the extra point after about five or ten minutes after the TD was scored and the field was cleared off. For the record, the Browns blocked the extra point, so the final score remained 28-23.
I would’ve taken option 2 if I were ABC, just without showing the kick. Just use the ticker and show the final score while saying the extra point was made after tv coverage cut away
I wonder how much power the network would actually have in that scenario. Usually if ticker messages show up on affiliate stations in local news/other programming, they’re controlled by the affiliates themselves unless it’s a national broadcast. ABC would have to relay that info to every local affiliate in the country, who would get their master control operator to run it on a scroll to save their behinds. (I say this as someone who actually presently works in local TV, at an ABC affiliate.)
I believe the Jaguars first nationally televised game was Sunday night on ESPN (or TNT?) against Green Bay in 1995. The big storyline was that it was Brett Favre's former backup Mark Brunell's first time playing his old team.
I'm surprised that they didn't send it off to ESPN. I remember that they had the MNF broadcast crew do a pre-game preview on their Monday Night Match-up pre-game show.
That would've been my preferred option, run a ticker on the bottom of the affiliate stations telling people that the extra point was about to be kicked over on ESPN. It would've pissed off the least amount of people, as it most likely would've cut into SportsCenter, but I'm sure the affiliates and ABC would hate that people would be switching away from their programming, especially if it was run during a late local news broadcast
The BEST option would have been just to tweak the rules just on this one occasion and not have them kick the extra point. The game ends 29-21, and the only confusion is for the people who know the rules well enough that they wonder why no extra point was kicked.
Wow. Are you saying they ignore the rule just for one game in the entire history of the NFL? That's really dumb. It's not even moral to change the rules once the game has started. That's what causes legal issues because now the Steelers and Jaguars are being treated differently than every other team in the NFL. Points actually matter for tiebreakers and both teams were in tiebreakers that season that came down to points! That's why they have rule changes in the offseason. You are too dumb.
It amazes me how so many people whose income and livelihood depends on the NFL do not know the basic rules of the game. Even if I were watching the game back then as a 12 year old kid I would know that you have to kick the extra point.
One of the key problems is once the game ended they were immediately in local time. That's ~150 stations across the country who think the game is over and where master control ops might not even be monitoring network programming anymore. By the time ABC gets alerted and a wire sent to alert affiliates, the extra point would've already been kicked.
Option 4 was to bring on Dandy Don Meredith holding an ice cold glass of delicious Lipton Ice Tea singing "Turn out the lights, the party's over. They say that all good things must end...". This was the option not that America deserved, but the one that America needed.
I clearly remember watching this game with its crazy ending. As a Steelers fan, it was a shock at the time to see them snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, but now I look back on it and laugh when I remember the look on Cowher's face. Mainly, I'm thankful he didn't give in to the temptation to run on the field and tackle Hudson. If he had, the controversy about the extra point would have paled in comparison! I actually didn't know that the extra point took place completely off camera. The crazy thing is that point differential ended up becoming significant that season because of the division championship being determined by the fifth tiebreaker.
Well if that had happened The Steelers would have been assessed a 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty with 0 time on clock and game over as Jacksonville does not score touchdown and wins 23-21 and Cower gets suspended and fined afterwards. Well maybe Jacksonville gets 1 play with 0 time on untimed down as game cannot end on defensive penalty even if the team leading is it. Though were the Stealers considered to be on defense after the block and Hudson running it back?? Or were they still considered on offense because they were on offense when lining up for the field goal before it was blocked and possession had not changed before live play was over.
Great video. I remember watching this game and that play, and how they showed several replays of Cowher's near-punch and Al Michaels commenting that he nearly "pulled a Woody Hayes" or something similar. But I never knew they were pulled back out for the extra point until now. And that reminds me of another game you should do a video on, ironically Christmas Eve, 2000. Dolphins were at the Patriots and the Pats tried a Hail Mary attempt that failed at the end of the game, so game over. Only it wasn't, because sometime WELL AFTER the game had ended the refs decided time should be put back on the clock so they called both teams out of the locker room to try another Hail Mary, which again failed. This included Zach Thomas coming back onto the field straight out of the shower in a towel and slides. Look that one up!
RobbK officially wins the comments 👏👏👏I also remember seeing this play and having no idea about the PAT. And yes I'm still furious over that Fins-Pats ending. Especially since the Pats actually could've won the game on that completely untimed and uncalled for play, they only lost by 3. Imagine an NFL team actually losing a division title or playoff spot because of something like that. 2000 was the year when the media decided that reality wasn't actual reality anymore, but whatever they decided it was.
I remember this Pats-Dolphins game, not from watching it but from seeing highlights on NFL Primetime and Chris Berman narrating how 15 minutes later guys had to get out of the shower for 1 last play and I could not believe what I was seeing. It looked ridiculous, unreasonable and unfair and what if the last hail mary counted and was good. I was really bothered by that but also thought this has to be one of the wildest endings ever. Also add to the fact that this decided the division at the end of the season. Teams had already celebrated winning the division on what they thought was the last play. It was hard to wrap my mind around at the time. I also don't know if the network for that game signed off and came back to show the last play or if that one also wasn't televised, but would have been interesting to see that footage if it was captured of a truly important hail mary in an empty stadium with 2 bewildered announcers trying to make sense of it.
@@billny33 It was definitely broadcast because that’s how I remember seeing it lol. I believe it was the nationally-televised game for CBS that day, and I was watching the second part of the double header when they went back to Foxboro to show what happened. That’s how I saw Zach Thomas in a heavy coat, a bath towel, and shower slides lol.
So, it took until the Minneapolis Miracle to change the rule about idiotically pointless extra points. They didn’t consider it after the Fail Mary in Seattle. As a Packers fan that annoyed me the replacement refs already gave the game to Seahawks why make both teams come out and kick a doesn’t matter extra point. Glad they finally changed that. But the NFL was all about player safety and not gambling…yeah right.
They aren't/weren't pointless (no pun). Points are STILL used in NFL tiebreakers. Just because you muppets can't see past the significance of a single game doesn't mean the PAT after a final-play TD is/was pointless. Taking it away needlessly complicates the procedure of the game. Before they removed it, every TD was followed with a PAT attempt. Now they have to add qualifiers and exceptions for that one instance. In both instances two rules were messed up by the REFEREES not knowing the rules. Yet here you are whining about the rules.
A crt screen in the same size of my lcd TV in the late 90s/early 2ks was very expensive (like at least $3500 then and my aunt's husband used to own one of those) then but the lcd I have costed like under $400 in 2014 (did paid for it but won that TV at a work party and that was the grand prize). I'm in awe with the majority of the stories of football then that you tell.
Even though this was in 97, the graphics bring back ESPN NFL 2k5 flashbacks, one of the great video games ever! ESPN were still using these graphics thru mid 2004 when that game came out, although ABC Sports (which was still a separate brand from ESPN for the first decade after Disney bought both) had switched away from these by that point
So, as you said, the extra point was significant…to some. This would be the last time Jacksonville would leave the field early before a division game was over. This unofficial Official Jaguar Gator 9 historian will remind everyone you made a video about another disastrous field goal attempt by Norm Johnson.
It was significant to the AFC Central division and the playoffs. The Steelers won the AFC Central that season due to having a better point differential in the division! Every point counts, and not just to money-wasting gamblers.
The following season the Steelers lost to the Oilers 23-14 at Vanderbilt Stadium. Ironically, Norm Johnson had gotten injured a few days before the game, they signed an unknown kicker that Cowher had no faith in and it cost the Steelers. But they still led 14-13 when Al Del Greco hit a chip shot to give Tennessee a 16-14 lead with :03 left. The Steelers tried a pitchy pitchy woo woo kickoff return that ended up being fumbled back in their own end zone and recovered by the Oilers to make it 22-14. I was at the game and there was a long delay before the meaningless extra point as the Steelers and some Oilers had left the field. I don't know what CBS did but of course it was a 12noon cst kickoff so had they gone to either the doubleheader game or postgame show depending on network rotation, they could have alerted viewers to the real final score. The closing spread was Tennessee -1.5 and over/under of 38.
My assumption would be that they might have cut away from the second game (or infomercials if there was no second game in the market) just in Nashville and Pittsburgh, or at least shown it as a game break so the NFL wouldn't get on CBS about it since that was the year they paid the league a ton of cash for the AFC.
Living on the west coast, I remember watching this game from start to finish, going to sleep right after the game ended. Waking up the next morning, finding out they still had to kick the extra point I was like WTF? I've always hated the fact the NFL used to still say you have to attempt the extra no matter how insignificant the extra point meant to the game.
Insignificant to the game on the field? Yes. Insignificant overall? I'm not sure you can argue that given that net points was not only relatively high on the tiebreaker list, but actually what would decide the division championship this year.
@@vdubproductions2646 You've just described why it matters. As long as points are used in ANY sort of tiebreaker, they should require the EP to be kicked. Michael Dixon explained just how important it was not only to this season but to also these two teams: The Steelers won the AFC Central title over the Jaguars due to overall points.
I just want to let you know that you will hit 100k subscribers and more if you just keep doing what you’re doing. You’re content is so unique and interesting and it’s stuff no one else talks about
I wonder if the net points metrics being shoved further down the tiebreaker steps also had something to do with getting rid of the rule requiring a conversion attempt even if the 4th quarter game clock expired and it would have no effect on the outcome of the game
Yeah. It did. I think the "We need more points" games in Week 17 in 1999 prompted them to move points down the tiebreaker list. Then, things like the Fail Mary and the Minneapolis Miracle, where the winning team had to come out to take a meaningless knee, gave the NFL a fair amount of criticism. The Fail Mary was even worse because the rules at that time prohibited the defense from scoring on a blocked PAT or turned over 2 point try. The play was immediately dead. Given that, and that NCAA has long since stopped making teams try PATs in similar situations, I think the NFL finally decided to nix the meaningless PATs with no time left.
Imagine going through all this effort and figuring out what you’re going to do. You end up showing the end of the game just to see the kicker miss the extra point.
In a 2005 Chiefs/Raiders game, Vermeil decided to go for the win instead of kicking a game-tying FG with only enough time for one play. Larry Johnson dived into the endzone as time expired. They were forced to kick the extra point but most of the Raiders had left the field. I remember the Raiders QB, Kerry Collins, lining up to defend the XP as he was one of the few Raiders players still on the field.
'Making the players leave the locker room and return to the field 15 minutes later, for a meaningless extra point, is like spiking the ball into the ground on every play.'
Considering that it took five tiebreakers to decide the AFC Central division in 1997, the extra point at the end of the game could have mattered if the points differential tiebreaker had gone into effect.
This happened another time (I forget when) with a game famously dubbed the “Heidi Game” when NBC cut away from the Oakland-New York game because they thought the Jets were gonna win and they were under pressure to aid the Heidi program. The raiders scored two touchdowns off camera to win the game, and fans were furious that they couldn’t see the ending
Oddly I wonder how this works today... 🤔 just a few weeks ago the Detroit Lions 1st victory of the season vs the Vikings, they never kicked the extra point either and the game wasn't even in overtime, yet they didnt kick the extra point and won by 1 pt. So confusing like the playoff scenarios as mentioned in a later video by OJG9 about the 82' Steelers. You can click the link in the upper right corner to check out that video.
All I am thinking about is "What was the over/under, and was there anger and confusion from Las Vegas sports books (97, the landscape was much different, in terms of immediately having information) Excellent video!
All I remember was Bill Cowher's near tackle on Pittsburgh's FG attempt. I didn't remember the mess that ensued afterward. This is on the officiating crew, not ABC.
the problem with options 1 & 2 is that networks don't control stations, and so would have to rely on local stations to air it, many of which would choose to preempt with news anyways.
Actually, there was one other option: Move the finish to ESPN and let them show the extra point live, then show it on ABC between the end of local news and the beginning of Nightline in the east or other programming in the west. They could have shown it as a one-minute segment, Now, in that situation, ESPN would have simply cut from Sportscenter to do that.
This reminds me somewhat of the Dolphins-Patriots game in 2000 (which incidentally took place on Christmas Eve). Patriots fumbled on the last play, clock ran out, both teams went to the locker room with the Dolphins celebrating winning the AFC East with a 27-24 win. But then it was determined 35 minutes later that it was an incomplete pass and there should be :03 left on the clock. CBS did air the final play of the game but not sure how many of the markets that started with the game went back to it (I know WBZ in Boston did as they were in the middle of airing their Patriots post game show). Fortunately for the Dolphins the Hail Mary pass fell short and the final score stayed 27-24. This would be a good subject for a future video if it hasn't already been covered.
100% there needs to be a video on this--this was the incident that this video reminded me of. One of the weirdest final plays in NFL history. Also should be a video on a Patriots-Bills game a year or so before that where the Bills got flagged for an incredibly rare pass interference foul on a Hail Mary, which allowed the Patriots to get the winning TD on an untimed down from the 1-yard line. The Bills were so disgusted that they walked off the field and refused to take part in the mandatory PAT, so the Patriots just ran it in for the easy (but meaningless) 2-point conversion.
Looking at the listings...CBS had the singleheader that week, so many markets probably had post-game coverage and got to see the final play if they weren't watching the FOX game. CBS had only one 4pm game, Steelers @ Chargers, so unless there was a cut-in I'm guessing most people in SoCal and PA and possibly most of Ohio didn't see it live. The announcers were Kevin Harlan and Daryl Johnston...I note that only because I have ZERO memory of Moose on CBS. I thought he was a FOX guy all the way.
I came here to post this and saw your comment. I totally remember that. The Dolphins were doing their postgame speech (was Wannstedt the coach then?) and the referees came in to tell them they had to go back on the field. The coach was so pissed he said “turn the cameras off.” Dudes walked out on to the field wearing towels.
It could've been broad cast in split screen, remember the Ford Bronco footage during the NBA Finals? That was shown in split screen in the lower left corner during the finals.
I started to think at least one fan must have recorded the play, then realized what year this happened. Wonder if this is the only NFL play in X number of years that the league doesn't have on film.
WABC-TV (Channel 7) in NYC usually acid “Monday Night Football” back in 1997 where Jacksonville won the game and ends on a high note, and there were no fan reactions or post-game reactions at all. You have to flip to ESPN to see the post-game.
I was at a Bills game against the Jaguars on opening day 2004. The Bills led 10-6 and on the final play the Jaguars scored the game winning TD. But even though the game had been decided they still kicked the extra point. I thought to myself why bother.
A year later after this MNF game, 1998, Bills were called for BS pass interference on a last second Hail Mary against the Patriots. The Patriots scored on the next last play from the 1 yard line and won the game. Wade Phillips and the Bills were pissed off and walked off the field instead of defend the extra point. Pete Carroll had Viniatieri walk in a 2-point conversion with all the Bills in the locker room. I didnt know that rule was still in effect until a few years ago. That's when I started to hate the Patriots, 2 years before Tom Brady. I even rooted for the Patriots and Bledsoe in the SB in 1996. That was the start of the Patriots-Refs collusion
I wonder if this had any effect when it came to betting on the game. Could you imagine going to bed thinking you won the over/under or covered the spread and then woke up the next morning to find out you actually lost?
My wife and I were in the stadium for that game. When they finally brought the players out and as they were starting to line up, my wife yelled "Go for 2!" She was kidding, of course, but she got some incredulous looks.
Even though this play was insignificant, this got me wondering if there are more instances of plays with accidental missing footage within the last few decades or so
Well, it's not lost footage, but the ending of the Cowboys/Redskins '82 NFC title game was kind of similar. The Redskins only had to run out the clock to win the game by 14 points. Theismann kept taking a knee, but on 4th down, he took a knee with around 15 seconds left. Since the clock stopped with the change of possession, the Cowboys got the ball back, however, both teams were leaving the field. CBS did stay with game until some Cowboys players finally came back out to snap the ball one time. But this being the NFC title game, I'm guessing they were gonna stay on air for at least a little while anyway for the post game
@@leogetz3570 Very interesting! And yeah it being a big playoff game definitely gave them a bit of wiggle room. Highly unlikely but I wonder if something like this has happened or will ever happen in the “modern era”
This was the only Jags' home game during the first 5 seasons that I didn't get to attend. I remember watching it on TV in Atlanta. I don't think I had ever heard this story about the extra point in the almost 25 years since.
This happened this year during a buccaneers game early in the season. The bucs were up by like 30 and there was like 4 minutes left and they just changed to another game
I went into this thinking the lost play was a kick blocked and return for a touchdown after a kick blocked and returned for a touchdown. Now THAT would be a wile finish!
@@DolFan316 exactly. I remember being pleased that we had a coach with that much fire, passion and enthusiasm. What Tomlin did was just sneaky and embarrassing. But Mikey t owned up to it (somewhat) and it's history now
I think the better option would be keeping the game at the network feed, ask the stations to record the extra point try and put it on the air as soon as possible inside the local news, with a note explaining it. That's what I would do and was possible with 1997's TV Networks technical and operational capability...
Check back in the 1960's when NBC cut away from Monday Night Football to run the Sound of Music! I don't remember who was playing, but the outrage was their.
Not really the small screen issues as people can get closer to TV to see this but the fact that all the broadcast was in 480 DPI at the time does not help the split screen option and today, they are 720 to 1080 on most TV's for Broadcasting that can get a signal in much clearer.
Another problem with option 2 is the affiliates controlled the broadcast. ABC would have had to contact aka make a phone call to hundreds? of stations and ask them to set up the split screen and include the network feed.
That's crazy that Bill Cower and Mike Tomlin both the past and current Steelers head coach both appearantly seemed to possibly have tried to trip opposing ball carrier's
What I remember most about this game was Bill Cowher's raw reaction (ready to punch) to Chris Hudson's game-ending return. Also, in both 1997 & '98, I had the Jax Jags pegged for the Super Bowl, but they just couldn't do it (a buddy of mine picked up that particular ball in '99, but we know how THAT ended:-). Another fun note is that I've been staying in the Jacksonville area (it's a huge area in a big way; I spend most of my time in Fruit Cove & working at the Sawgrass Marriott in Ponte Vedra) since early February 2020 (COVID had made the experience less fun, and man, do the recent edition of the Jax Jags stink!).
surprised abc decided to not show it, it would never ever happen today, today they would cut out for the XP, or just show it to there sister station like espn 2
I would've been in favor of having Al Michaels do a brief cut-in after the local news and before Nightline (or during prime-time programming on the West Coast) to note what happened and note the final score. Yes, a lot of folks might still be surprised if they went to bed before the cut-in, but it's better than not noting the moment at all. And as far as option 2 is concerned, yes, analog screens were smaller back then. But we had TV's with picture-in-picture, so I don't think it's the aesthetics that would've stopped it. I think the fact that, except for the west coast, the affiliates were on locally with late local news, the logistics would've been difficult. And for an XP that didn't change the end result, even if it screwed over some teasers, it would've been deemed not worth it in 1997.
The play known as the kick six between Baltimore and Cleveland did not have a PAT attempt. At that time, it would have to be kicked. But because Monday Night Football was on ESPN, it could cut away from Sports Center.
I'm shocked this wasn't the reason for getting rid of that rule. Its crazy to me that it took so long for it to be changed and the one that got it to change wasn't even as bad as this situation was. Craziness
5:10 I wish they kept the rule like it was. You’re taking points away from the kicker. I mean it sounds silly…….but if he’s trying to kick the most points in one season……then it isn’t so silly.
The Same thing Happened in the NFL Ref strike season in 2012 where the Packers and Seahawks had to play an extra point and the Packers refused to take the field due to a call that was not good where the play should have been a Touchback for the Packers so they sent as much of the backup players and barely lined up after a 12--15 minute thing of trying to figure out how to get a team back and getting Packers to want to do the kick an extra point after for the touchdown. Since this was an ESPN sports thing for Monday night having swapped Monday night for Sunday night on the big networks in 2010 or so, they could play on with the extra kick and delay the Sports Center program.
1997: "Cut away from the nightly news to miss the important goings on for a unimportant extra point" 2021: I'll rather watch more football even if it's an extra point, it's football!
Option 1 would have required the local stations to cut back to network on their own. Networks do not have a takeover button. As a local news producer myself, once my newscast starts, nothing short of a call from the president of the network is convincing me to relinquish control…..at midnight…..on a Monday. local spots in local programming do have an expiration. Going back to network that late would almost certainly negate doing the news at all, as by then, none of the commercials would count, and would have to be made good at a later time.
Option 1: Go back and show the PAT.
Option 2: Split-screen the PAT.
Option 3: Don't show the PAT.
Option 4: Tape the PAT and alert all the network affiliates that there is an additional bit of game footage they have to air. Then, after the local news has ended, show the PAT on tape delay.
You need to look for openings as head sports director at a major network ASAP...seriously!
The problem with option 2 besides what was noted is that there were (and still are) some ABC stations without news (most infamously KDNL in St. Louis, though they did at the time), and their ability to show a split-screen may have been limited because they really didn't have the ability to show a split-screen, much less a ticker. And if they did, often it was only for a weather event, AND with the loud tone that indicates a weather warning. So some of these stations didn't have the ability to split-screen.
So in that case, you either have to load a 'Jacksonville just came back to kick the Point After Touchdown under the rules of the NFL, the final score was 30-21'...and you might have to awkwardly load that into the weather or snow closing ticker, and get 'why did you use a weather warning to update the score?!' complaints. Plus at around that time, the weather segment usually occurs in the local news 15 minutes in. You tell your weatherman 'we gotta stop 'cause ABC needs to show this PAT' and you're getting an FCC fine from the meteorologist cursing you out on-air for bad programming judgement. 😂 Along with viewers on the non-news ABC station whose syndicated sitcom was interrupted for a PAT.
Finally for option #1...that network switch calling the entire network back to the network feed could not have been used in that situation. You get enough angry people calling ABC stations when their soaps get interrupted for a political or breaking news story. For a PAT kick, though? The master control operator is looking at that notice to go back to the network and outside Jacksonville and Pittsburgh, laughing it off and ignoring the signal.
And if I'm not mistaken, the ABC affiliate in Jacksonville (which had only been launched a year before) was absolutely a non-factor to viewers outside ABC programming (they became owned by the NBC affiliate two years later and killed what little of their news department had come online), so they tuned out of their newscast immediately because those viewers just didn't have any trust in a very new news operation. Even if WJXX had gotten notice the PAT was kicked later during their post-game coverage and those few viewers went to bed knowing the correct score, most of their audience had already gone to bed or were onto Leno or Letterman on the higher-rated NBC and CBS stations, and those stations figured a note during the morning news would suffice over a ticker announcement since the point didn't cost the Jaguars the game.
Option 4 would have been perfect. After the news, all of the affiliates would have returned to network programming anyway (Nightline on the East Coast, other network programming out West). ABC could have easily did this
I was saying the EXACT same thing. It seems so obvious.
@@augustuscaesar9995 This makes so much more sense; even if Nightline was delayed, every ABC station has to carry it, and it would've made for a fun 'kicker' to the end or start of Nightline. Surprised they didn't try to do this (unless Al and the gang already were headed to the airport, which may have ruled it out).
"If the referees knew the rules then this whole controversy never happens." LOL that's asking alot out of the NFL refs.
What even are the rules these days? People seem to just make them up depending on how they feel at that particular moment. Not just in sports but in life.
ABC was in no way breaking the contract, the NFL signaled the end of the game by having the participants leave the field. It is not ABC's responsibility to administer the rules of the game.
absolutely right, it wouldn't stop the NFL from maybe suing all; the same, however.
I absolutely remember this happening. It's amazing that they didn't change the rule about kicking the extra point after time expired after this game. Great video coverage of this game, too. And bringing up "teaser card" was excellent context that was a factor...and I'm surprised that Hollis kicked the extra point as opposed to just taking a knee or getting hurt kicking the point. But no footage to show any of it...and yes, this wasn't the fault of ABC...the refs needed to know this simple rule. Loved this video--Really did your homework here. Great job :)
At this point, net points was relatively high on the list. As we saw in the previous post mentioned, it's why Pittsburgh ended up winning the division. For that reason, I'm actually somewhat surprised Jacksonville didn't go for 2, especially since intercepted 2 point plays couldn't even be returned at this point. But I'm not surprised they kicked it. Especially early in the season, you never know when that extra point might matter.
The NFL later moved net points down the list. So with later plays when a TD got scored and time expired but the extra point was still required (like the fail mary), the teams were more inclined to take a knee.
The extra point legally has to compliment the TD even after time expires, because it's "part or the TD". If it's a 6-point game and tied with the 6 points they would need it. In a case like this or in sudden death, it becomes completely redundant. But there ARE situations where it's important and necessary (Steelers V Packers 2009 for example)
It wasn't at all zeros, but the very first one after the NFL implemented the defensive conversion is that very example.
Saints/Broncos 2016: Broncos up 23-17, Saints tie it with a Brees TD to Brandin Cooks, only for the Broncos to block the XP and Justin Simmons takes it back for two. Broncos win 25-23. Saints actually did it themselves a few weeks later vs Carolina, but not in the same spot.
@@SuperTugz Yes but I'm assuming if the TD only tied the game and the PAT was needed to win it, you wouldn't have the teams and fans clearing the field with the network signing off. I'd even go as far as to say if the score is within 2 points on either side, make the PAT get kicked. A team up 2 can theoretically have a return against it and even if all they'd do is take a knee, that can get botched. So at least make that necessary. But when there's literally no time on the clock and the lead/deficit is more than 3 points, there's no need for it.
And as far as the PAT being "part of the TD," OK. But touching all 4 bases is part of the home run. But there have been instances when that wasn't plausible so the umpires had the discretion to say the run counted. Hell, the NBA let a whole 45 seconds of a game go unplayed because a riot broke out. Even when things settled down, the game was out of hand so they just decided to let the remaining seconds go unplayed. While I appreciate the need to maintain the rules, I don't think the PAT is any more sacred than either of those situations.
“ Outraged “ ?
Anyone who even cared about this extra point needs help
Just watched this complete game and even Al Michaels said twice "There's supposed to be an extra point attempt, but don't count on it" as the closing credits were playing and highlights of the game were being shown
@Leo Getz
I finally found the game footage and Al Michaels did say that. Al Michaels was the only one who got it right. Do you think that the following week they said that they kicked the extra point from the previous week?
I watched this game, and remember going crazy when the Jaguars blocked the kick and ran it back. I literally never knew about the extra point chaos. I miss those great Jags teams.
Henderson and Stroud--- great duo
I also miss the old logo.
I can’t imagine if you bet money on it lol. I bet money on the Minneapolis Miracle. The Vikings were -5.5. I took the Saints. I remember freaking out when they scored the touchdown, then freaking out even more when I thought they were gonna kick the PAT, thus making it a 6 point victory which would mean I would lose. They kneeled on it and I won.
The 99 team needs to be talked about more. There only 3 losses were to the Titans but it's somehow never talked about
Lots of weird moments in NFL history have involved the Jags, haven't they?
Has he done the ending to that one Jags-Saints game yet?
@@DolFan316 garrard bombs to mike thomas vs texans bottlegate vs browns i think that was after the no game
"Florida Man" Syndrome.
@Gabriel Rodriguez like the Jags-Brown controversy in 1999?
Nice Hartford Whalers throwback. All I remember about them is the goalie for my team scored the only goal of his career, an empty netter, against you guys haha.
Not surprising the League made the play continue when for all intents and purposes it was pointless. 4 years later, during the "Bottlegate" game, they still made both teams go out 20 minutes later (this time in a near full riot) solely for a kneeldown. Kind of funny how both games involve the Jags.
Bottlegate was the last time the Jaguars played a division game against the Browns.
Needless to say, the Jaguars, actually being on the Atlantic Coast, never made sense in the AFC Central. But the NFL has always been weird with geography.
Like the Dallas Cowboys being in the NFC East despite being west of every North and South Division team in the conference, It was worse when the Rams were in St. Louis, as the 4th-westernmost NFC team during that time, the Cowboys should have been in the NFC West. Now they should be in the NFC South.
@@LogoAttitude Between 1995 and 2001, the NFC East had 2 teams west of the Mississippi (Dallas and Arizona), while the NFC West had 3 (New Orleans, Atlanta, and Carolina).
At this point, the NFC South is the successor to the old NFC West and the current NFC West is the new division.
A somewhat more accurate geographical divisional map would be (with no conference changes)
NFC East: NY, Philadelphia, Washington, Carolina
NFC North: Stays the same
NFC West: Stays the same
NFC South: Dallas, New Orleans, Tampa, Atlanta
AFC East: New England, Buffalo, NY, Baltimore
AFC North: Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Indianapolis
AFC West: Stays the same
AFC South: Miami, Houston, Jacksonville, Tennessee
@@timfortune9 if we want to be truly accurate, then Carolina goes to the AFC South, Baltimore to the NFC East, KC to the AFC North, Pittsburgh to the AFC East and Houston to the AFC West (being further west than KC)
It was NOT pointless. Points are used for tiebreakers and in 1997, that same season, the Steelers edged out the Jaguars for the AFC Central crown because of points! You guys saying the EP is pointless are morons who can't see the bigger picture. And yes, points are STILL used as tiebreakers in the NFL.
@@encycl07pedia- Points aren't as high on the tiebreaker list anymore because now every pair of teams in the same division has 12 games against common opponents each year, and every pair of non-division opponents within the same conference has 5 games against common opponents each year. This is a result of the realignment into 8 4-team divisions in 2002 and the scheduling rotation introduced because of it.
The common opponents tie-breaker is used more often as a result.
To be honest, Option #2 was feasible considering the ‘94 NBA finals was preempted for the OJ chase, with the game placed in the small PiP box. But yea…glad the nfl got rid of this dumb PAT rule that had no outcome on the game.
NBC took a fair amount of criticism for that though. Even that was a different situation. That was a sporting event interrupted by non sports news (well, non sports-ish news, given that it was OJ). But obviously they couldn't just ignore the OJ event. They may be able to get away with it now, put the news or game on a streaming service or satellite channel. Doing a split screen would look particularly bad if some serious news story was being reported and a meaningless PAT was on the other end.
Feasible, technically, but ABC doesn’t control local late news, the affiliates do. NBC could show both OJ and the Finals because they were likely being operated out of the same broadcast center. ABC would have to ask every station in the country airing news at that time to put the network feed in a PIP, and it’s possible not every station has technical directors that can handle that request in a timely manner. ABC would be better off taking back full control or doing nothing.
It was a good rule. It was consistent and less confusing. I got confused after they removed it. It messes with stats and scores. Just because some people think it's boring or "anticlimactic" doesn't mean it's bad.
"A PAT attempt occurs after every touchdown" vs.
"A PAT attempt occurs after every TD unless the TD is scored with no time left AND it has no bearing on the outcome of the game."
It's like all the additional BS astronomy used to do to classify Pluto as a planet even though it never should have been one.
@@encycl07pedia- It was a terrible rule. I don't see how it messes with scores at all. Hell, the rule you are defending did exactly that. The game the video mentions should've ended when everybody thought it did but nope they had to kick a meaningless extra point that does nothing but pisses everybody off. No team wants to kick a meaningless extra point hence why in the later years of the rule when a meaningless extra point had to be kicked teams usually just took a knee instead of attempting to kick the extra point.
@@thephoenixxm4160 Are you trolling or are you really so dense that you don't understand that the new rules penalize teams that happen to score a TD on the last play of the game? Points are not meaningless. They may not change the outcome of ONE SINGLE GAME, but they can change the outcome OF THE ENTIRE SEASON!
Scores are used in tiebreakers. The EXACT REASON why 11-5 Pittsburgh won the AFC Central over 11-5 Jacksonville WAS BECAUSE OF POINTS! They were tied until it came down to POINTS!
Only stupid people think it was a stupid rule.
I remember when the Miracle at the Met took place in 1980 (Ahmad Rashad's last-second touchdown vs. the Browns), the officials made both teams come back out to attempt the extra point after about five or ten minutes after the TD was scored and the field was cleared off. For the record, the Browns blocked the extra point, so the final score remained 28-23.
I would’ve taken option 2 if I were ABC, just without showing the kick. Just use the ticker and show the final score while saying the extra point was made after tv coverage cut away
I wonder how much power the network would actually have in that scenario. Usually if ticker messages show up on affiliate stations in local news/other programming, they’re controlled by the affiliates themselves unless it’s a national broadcast. ABC would have to relay that info to every local affiliate in the country, who would get their master control operator to run it on a scroll to save their behinds.
(I say this as someone who actually presently works in local TV, at an ABC affiliate.)
I believe the Jaguars first nationally televised game was Sunday night on ESPN (or TNT?) against Green Bay in 1995. The big storyline was that it was Brett Favre's former backup Mark Brunell's first time playing his old team.
It was on TNT in 1995
@@kashakamcpherson9719 Yep, I remember watching it as a 5-year-old. My dad was like, "Hey, that new team is playing on TV."
I'm surprised that they didn't send it off to ESPN. I remember that they had the MNF broadcast crew do a pre-game preview on their Monday Night Match-up pre-game show.
That would've been my preferred option, run a ticker on the bottom of the affiliate stations telling people that the extra point was about to be kicked over on ESPN. It would've pissed off the least amount of people, as it most likely would've cut into SportsCenter, but I'm sure the affiliates and ABC would hate that people would be switching away from their programming, especially if it was run during a late local news broadcast
That's what probably should have been done, but I suspect the station managers of ABC affiliates would have been angry losing viewers to ESPN.
The BEST option would have been just to tweak the rules just on this one occasion and not have them kick the extra point. The game ends 29-21, and the only confusion is for the people who know the rules well enough that they wonder why no extra point was kicked.
Wow. Are you saying they ignore the rule just for one game in the entire history of the NFL? That's really dumb. It's not even moral to change the rules once the game has started. That's what causes legal issues because now the Steelers and Jaguars are being treated differently than every other team in the NFL. Points actually matter for tiebreakers and both teams were in tiebreakers that season that came down to points! That's why they have rule changes in the offseason.
You are too dumb.
It amazes me how so many people whose income and livelihood depends on the NFL do not know the basic rules of the game. Even if I were watching the game back then as a 12 year old kid I would know that you have to kick the extra point.
One of the key problems is once the game ended they were immediately in local time. That's ~150 stations across the country who think the game is over and where master control ops might not even be monitoring network programming anymore. By the time ABC gets alerted and a wire sent to alert affiliates, the extra point would've already been kicked.
This is why it gets taped to play the next day for Sports News on ESPN/ESPN2 since ESPN is an ABC thing.
I'm more amazed by footage of a sold out game in Jax. It's like man walking on the moon. You wouldn't believe it unless you saw it.
Option 4 was to bring on Dandy Don Meredith holding an ice cold glass of delicious Lipton Ice Tea singing "Turn out the lights, the party's over. They say that all good things must end...". This was the option not that America deserved, but the one that America needed.
There was also the infamous "Heidi Bowl" incident in the early '70s. Also at 4:10 Cowher contemplates paying tribute to Woody Hayes.
I clearly remember watching this game with its crazy ending. As a Steelers fan, it was a shock at the time to see them snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, but now I look back on it and laugh when I remember the look on Cowher's face. Mainly, I'm thankful he didn't give in to the temptation to run on the field and tackle Hudson. If he had, the controversy about the extra point would have paled in comparison!
I actually didn't know that the extra point took place completely off camera. The crazy thing is that point differential ended up becoming significant that season because of the division championship being determined by the fifth tiebreaker.
Well if that had happened The Steelers would have been assessed a 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty with 0 time on clock and game over as Jacksonville does not score touchdown and wins 23-21 and Cower gets suspended and fined afterwards. Well maybe Jacksonville gets 1 play with 0 time on untimed down as game cannot end on defensive penalty even if the team leading is it. Though were the Stealers considered to be on defense after the block and Hudson running it back?? Or were they still considered on offense because they were on offense when lining up for the field goal before it was blocked and possession had not changed before live play was over.
Great video. I remember watching this game and that play, and how they showed several replays of Cowher's near-punch and Al Michaels commenting that he nearly "pulled a Woody Hayes" or something similar. But I never knew they were pulled back out for the extra point until now. And that reminds me of another game you should do a video on, ironically Christmas Eve, 2000. Dolphins were at the Patriots and the Pats tried a Hail Mary attempt that failed at the end of the game, so game over. Only it wasn't, because sometime WELL AFTER the game had ended the refs decided time should be put back on the clock so they called both teams out of the locker room to try another Hail Mary, which again failed. This included Zach Thomas coming back onto the field straight out of the shower in a towel and slides. Look that one up!
@OneHairyGuyOSU vs Clemson in the Gator Bowl.
RobbK officially wins the comments 👏👏👏I also remember seeing this play and having no idea about the PAT.
And yes I'm still furious over that Fins-Pats ending. Especially since the Pats actually could've won the game on that completely untimed and uncalled for play, they only lost by 3. Imagine an NFL team actually losing a division title or playoff spot because of something like that. 2000 was the year when the media decided that reality wasn't actual reality anymore, but whatever they decided it was.
I remember this Pats-Dolphins game, not from watching it but from seeing highlights on NFL Primetime and Chris Berman narrating how 15 minutes later guys had to get out of the shower for 1 last play and I could not believe what I was seeing. It looked ridiculous, unreasonable and unfair and what if the last hail mary counted and was good. I was really bothered by that but also thought this has to be one of the wildest endings ever. Also add to the fact that this decided the division at the end of the season. Teams had already celebrated winning the division on what they thought was the last play. It was hard to wrap my mind around at the time. I also don't know if the network for that game signed off and came back to show the last play or if that one also wasn't televised, but would have been interesting to see that footage if it was captured of a truly important hail mary in an empty stadium with 2 bewildered announcers trying to make sense of it.
@@billny33 It was definitely broadcast because that’s how I remember seeing it lol. I believe it was the nationally-televised game for CBS that day, and I was watching the second part of the double header when they went back to Foxboro to show what happened. That’s how I saw Zach Thomas in a heavy coat, a bath towel, and shower slides lol.
I remember that one; it was ridiculous.
More important question: Were the Jaguars assessed a delay of game penalty?
refs never set the ball.....play clock never started...
The real ? Why did they deflect the news what was going on they were hiding from certain markets because it's a east west tv
@@pieluvr7362 what are you smoking?
So, it took until the Minneapolis Miracle to change the rule about idiotically pointless extra points. They didn’t consider it after the Fail Mary in Seattle. As a Packers fan that annoyed me the replacement refs already gave the game to Seahawks why make both teams come out and kick a doesn’t matter extra point. Glad they finally changed that. But the NFL was all about player safety and not gambling…yeah right.
The rule should've ben changed right after this game TBH.
They aren't/weren't pointless (no pun). Points are STILL used in NFL tiebreakers. Just because you muppets can't see past the significance of a single game doesn't mean the PAT after a final-play TD is/was pointless. Taking it away needlessly complicates the procedure of the game. Before they removed it, every TD was followed with a PAT attempt. Now they have to add qualifiers and exceptions for that one instance.
In both instances two rules were messed up by the REFEREES not knowing the rules. Yet here you are whining about the rules.
JG9, this is one of the best videos you've ever done. Great job!
A crt screen in the same size of my lcd TV in the late 90s/early 2ks was very expensive (like at least $3500 then and my aunt's husband used to own one of those) then but the lcd I have costed like under $400 in 2014 (did paid for it but won that TV at a work party and that was the grand prize). I'm in awe with the majority of the stories of football then that you tell.
Even though this was in 97, the graphics bring back ESPN NFL 2k5 flashbacks, one of the great video games ever! ESPN were still using these graphics thru mid 2004 when that game came out, although ABC Sports (which was still a separate brand from ESPN for the first decade after Disney bought both) had switched away from these by that point
So, as you said, the extra point was significant…to some.
This would be the last time Jacksonville would leave the field early before a division game was over.
This unofficial Official Jaguar Gator 9 historian will remind everyone you made a video about another disastrous field goal attempt by Norm Johnson.
Who are DEGENERATE GAMBLERS?-Jim Rome
It was significant to the AFC Central division and the playoffs. The Steelers won the AFC Central that season due to having a better point differential in the division! Every point counts, and not just to money-wasting gamblers.
The following season the Steelers lost to the Oilers 23-14 at Vanderbilt Stadium. Ironically, Norm Johnson had gotten injured a few days before the game, they signed an unknown kicker that Cowher had no faith in and it cost the Steelers. But they still led 14-13 when Al Del Greco hit a chip shot to give Tennessee a 16-14 lead with :03 left. The Steelers tried a pitchy pitchy woo woo kickoff return that ended up being fumbled back in their own end zone and recovered by the Oilers to make it 22-14. I was at the game and there was a long delay before the meaningless extra point as the Steelers and some Oilers had left the field. I don't know what CBS did but of course it was a 12noon cst kickoff so had they gone to either the doubleheader game or postgame show depending on network rotation, they could have alerted viewers to the real final score. The closing spread was Tennessee -1.5 and over/under of 38.
My assumption would be that they might have cut away from the second game (or infomercials if there was no second game in the market) just in Nashville and Pittsburgh, or at least shown it as a game break so the NFL wouldn't get on CBS about it since that was the year they paid the league a ton of cash for the AFC.
Living on the west coast, I remember watching this game from start to finish, going to sleep right after the game ended. Waking up the next morning, finding out they still had to kick the extra point I was like WTF? I've always hated the fact the NFL used to still say you have to attempt the extra no matter how insignificant the extra point meant to the game.
Insignificant to the game on the field? Yes. Insignificant overall? I'm not sure you can argue that given that net points was not only relatively high on the tiebreaker list, but actually what would decide the division championship this year.
@@mfdixon1985 That is true back then Net Points was a higher end of the tie breaker procedure. Just like the Points War Week 17 of the 1999 season
@@vdubproductions2646 You've just described why it matters. As long as points are used in ANY sort of tiebreaker, they should require the EP to be kicked. Michael Dixon explained just how important it was not only to this season but to also these two teams: The Steelers won the AFC Central title over the Jaguars due to overall points.
I just want to let you know that you will hit 100k subscribers and more if you just keep doing what you’re doing. You’re content is so unique and interesting and it’s stuff no one else talks about
I wonder if the net points metrics being shoved further down the tiebreaker steps also had something to do with getting rid of the rule requiring a conversion attempt even if the 4th quarter game clock expired and it would have no effect on the outcome of the game
Yeah. It did. I think the "We need more points" games in Week 17 in 1999 prompted them to move points down the tiebreaker list. Then, things like the Fail Mary and the Minneapolis Miracle, where the winning team had to come out to take a meaningless knee, gave the NFL a fair amount of criticism. The Fail Mary was even worse because the rules at that time prohibited the defense from scoring on a blocked PAT or turned over 2 point try. The play was immediately dead.
Given that, and that NCAA has long since stopped making teams try PATs in similar situations, I think the NFL finally decided to nix the meaningless PATs with no time left.
This is the video that introduced me to your great channel.
Imagine going through all this effort and figuring out what you’re going to do. You end up showing the end of the game just to see the kicker miss the extra point.
The title showed up on my RUclips app as "The CRAZIEST BROAD...", so that's why I'm here. Kinda disappointed actually...
In a 2005 Chiefs/Raiders game, Vermeil decided to go for the win instead of kicking a game-tying FG with only enough time for one play. Larry Johnson dived into the endzone as time expired. They were forced to kick the extra point but most of the Raiders had left the field. I remember the Raiders QB, Kerry Collins, lining up to defend the XP as he was one of the few Raiders players still on the field.
On the conversion attempt after the Minneapolis Miracle Saints Punter Thomas Morestad was on the defensive line.
i wish i would of found this channel sooner, great information
This youtuber is refreshing after watching the same few yt football creators. Interesting topics and videos. Thanks dude
'Making the players leave the locker room and return to the field 15 minutes later, for a meaningless extra point, is like spiking the ball into the ground on every play.'
Love your channel, Boss. I'm a bit of a classic football junkie myself, but I'm learning things I never even knew about. Keep up the good work.
Considering that it took five tiebreakers to decide the AFC Central division in 1997, the extra point at the end of the game could have mattered if the points differential tiebreaker had gone into effect.
It's nice to remember when we weren't the worst organization in pro sports.
Jags were solid in the beginning. They went to the AFC championship game the year prior to this and won 14 games in 99.
Across the big 4 US Sports leagues, the Jacksonville Jaguars are actually the winningest organization of the 20th century. (52-34, 0.605)
since gabbert was drafted and khan got the team both in 2011 lol
The Pirates and Coyotes say hi.
This is why you never ever EVER gamble on sports, kids. IDC if it's legal everywhere now, the money loss is still real.
This happened another time (I forget when) with a game famously dubbed the “Heidi Game” when NBC cut away from the Oakland-New York game because they thought the Jets were gonna win and they were under pressure to aid the Heidi program. The raiders scored two touchdowns off camera to win the game, and fans were furious that they couldn’t see the ending
It's happened a lot actually.
CBS did it a few years ago in a chargers/ravens game.
Cut away on the final drive of the game.
You should look up what happened when they had to resume the Pine Tar game between the Yankees and Royals.
Didn't even knew I was busy watching Nitro lol.
I would've left it to the station cause as it was in LA KABC would aired thier version of postgame
Oddly I wonder how this works today... 🤔 just a few weeks ago the Detroit Lions 1st victory of the season vs the Vikings, they never kicked the extra point either and the game wasn't even in overtime, yet they didnt kick the extra point and won by 1 pt. So confusing like the playoff scenarios as mentioned in a later video by OJG9 about the 82' Steelers. You can click the link in the upper right corner to check out that video.
All I am thinking about is "What was the over/under, and was there anger and confusion from Las Vegas sports books (97, the landscape was much different, in terms of immediately having information)
Excellent video!
All I remember was Bill Cowher's near tackle on Pittsburgh's FG attempt. I didn't remember the mess that ensued afterward. This is on the officiating crew, not ABC.
the problem with options 1 & 2 is that networks don't control stations, and so would have to rely on local stations to air it, many of which would choose to preempt with news anyways.
Actually, there was one other option:
Move the finish to ESPN and let them show the extra point live, then show it on ABC between the end of local news and the beginning of Nightline in the east or other programming in the west. They could have shown it as a one-minute segment,
Now, in that situation, ESPN would have simply cut from Sportscenter to do that.
Can you start to include the Week as well as the year in the description brother
Didn't he state it was week 4, early in the show?
This reminds me somewhat of the Dolphins-Patriots game in 2000 (which incidentally took place on Christmas Eve). Patriots fumbled on the last play, clock ran out, both teams went to the locker room with the Dolphins celebrating winning the AFC East with a 27-24 win. But then it was determined 35 minutes later that it was an incomplete pass and there should be :03 left on the clock. CBS did air the final play of the game but not sure how many of the markets that started with the game went back to it (I know WBZ in Boston did as they were in the middle of airing their Patriots post game show). Fortunately for the Dolphins the Hail Mary pass fell short and the final score stayed 27-24. This would be a good subject for a future video if it hasn't already been covered.
100% there needs to be a video on this--this was the incident that this video reminded me of. One of the weirdest final plays in NFL history.
Also should be a video on a Patriots-Bills game a year or so before that where the Bills got flagged for an incredibly rare pass interference foul on a Hail Mary, which allowed the Patriots to get the winning TD on an untimed down from the 1-yard line. The Bills were so disgusted that they walked off the field and refused to take part in the mandatory PAT, so the Patriots just ran it in for the easy (but meaningless) 2-point conversion.
Looking at the listings...CBS had the singleheader that week, so many markets probably had post-game coverage and got to see the final play if they weren't watching the FOX game. CBS had only one 4pm game, Steelers @ Chargers, so unless there was a cut-in I'm guessing most people in SoCal and PA and possibly most of Ohio didn't see it live.
The announcers were Kevin Harlan and Daryl Johnston...I note that only because I have ZERO memory of Moose on CBS. I thought he was a FOX guy all the way.
I came here to post this and saw your comment. I totally remember that. The Dolphins were doing their postgame speech (was Wannstedt the coach then?) and the referees came in to tell them they had to go back on the field. The coach was so pissed he said “turn the cameras off.” Dudes walked out on to the field wearing towels.
How did they determine that 35 minutes later?
It could've been broad cast in split screen, remember the Ford Bronco footage during the NBA Finals? That was shown in split screen in the lower left corner during the finals.
I remember watching this game, but I didn’t know about the ending until I watched this video
I started to think at least one fan must have recorded the play, then realized what year this happened. Wonder if this is the only NFL play in X number of years that the league doesn't have on film.
WABC-TV (Channel 7) in NYC usually acid “Monday Night Football” back in 1997 where Jacksonville won the game and ends on a high note, and there were no fan reactions or post-game reactions at all. You have to flip to ESPN to see the post-game.
Monday Night Football was never the same after Gifford, Meredith, and Cosell left.
Gifford was trash
@OneHairyGuy Why make this about race? What do you have to gain from it?
The biggest blunder was having a, so called comedian called Dennis miller as an analyst, that's the biggest ever one
I was at a Bills game against the Jaguars on opening day 2004. The Bills led 10-6 and on the final play the Jaguars scored the game winning TD. But even though the game had been decided they still kicked the extra point. I thought to myself why bother.
A year later after this MNF game, 1998, Bills were called for BS pass interference on a last second Hail Mary against the Patriots. The Patriots scored on the next last play from the 1 yard line and won the game.
Wade Phillips and the Bills were pissed off and walked off the field instead of defend the extra point. Pete Carroll had Viniatieri walk in a 2-point conversion with all the Bills in the locker room. I didnt know that rule was still in effect until a few years ago.
That's when I started to hate the Patriots, 2 years before Tom Brady. I even rooted for the Patriots and Bledsoe in the SB in 1996. That was the start of the Patriots-Refs collusion
@@RichV20 ya I remember that. That was awful
@@scottfarmer8758 #metoo
Don't remember the PI, but I do remember Terry Glenn getting a first down when he was at least a yard short on that drive as well.
@@mgb4692 the referee said 'just give it to him'
I wonder if this had any effect when it came to betting on the game. Could you imagine going to bed thinking you won the over/under or covered the spread and then woke up the next morning to find out you actually lost?
Hard to believe that this game was almost a quarter century ago.
My wife and I were in the stadium for that game. When they finally brought the players out and as they were starting to line up, my wife yelled "Go for 2!" She was kidding, of course, but she got some incredulous looks.
Even though this play was insignificant, this got me wondering if there are more instances of plays with accidental missing footage within the last few decades or so
Well, it's not lost footage, but the ending of the Cowboys/Redskins '82 NFC title game was kind of similar. The Redskins only had to run out the clock to win the game by 14 points. Theismann kept taking a knee, but on 4th down, he took a knee with around 15 seconds left. Since the clock stopped with the change of possession, the Cowboys got the ball back, however, both teams were leaving the field. CBS did stay with game until some Cowboys players finally came back out to snap the ball one time. But this being the NFC title game, I'm guessing they were gonna stay on air for at least a little while anyway for the post game
@@leogetz3570 Very interesting! And yeah it being a big playoff game definitely gave them a bit of wiggle room. Highly unlikely but I wonder if something like this has happened or will ever happen in the “modern era”
This was the only Jags' home game during the first 5 seasons that I didn't get to attend. I remember watching it on TV in Atlanta. I don't think I had ever heard this story about the extra point in the almost 25 years since.
I was 15 years old when this happened and I knew the rules. The fact that it took until 2015 to adjust the rules is astounding.
It was 2018.
This happened this year during a buccaneers game early in the season. The bucs were up by like 30 and there was like 4 minutes left and they just changed to another game
1997 was also the year that Jacksonville's ABC affiliation moved from WJKS-TV 17 to WBSG 21/WJXX 25...
I went into this thinking the lost play was a kick blocked and return for a touchdown after a kick blocked and returned for a touchdown. Now THAT would be a wile finish!
Imagine being local news guy on camera: "Don't they have to kick the extra point?"
Option 2 would've been the best one, I feel the chances of it actually split screening with something cruel is very low but yet again it's not none 🤣
4:13 Trip? Cowher was a linebacker in his 20s, he wanted go in for the tackle on that blocked kick
Even at the time I think almost everybody understood that what he did was pure instinct rather than any attempt at cheating.
@@DolFan316 exactly. I remember being pleased that we had a coach with that much fire, passion and enthusiasm. What Tomlin did was just sneaky and embarrassing. But Mikey t owned up to it (somewhat) and it's history now
I think the better option would be keeping the game at the network feed, ask the stations to record the extra point try and put it on the air as soon as possible inside the local news, with a note explaining it. That's what I would do and was possible with 1997's TV Networks technical and operational capability...
Please do one with the Steelers-Oilers Game of '96 when they got cut off for the Rockets Preseason Game!
Check back in the 1960's when NBC cut away from Monday Night Football to run the Sound of Music! I don't remember who was playing, but the outrage was their.
Not really the small screen issues as people can get closer to TV to see this but the fact that all the broadcast was in 480 DPI at the time does not help the split screen option and today, they are 720 to 1080 on most TV's for Broadcasting that can get a signal in much clearer.
Merry Christmas Eve
Too bad for you sad saps, we got to see it here in Florida. I had it taped on VHS for years.
and who ever said that an extra point is not a big deal 🤣
I tried today find this video. "Official gator" came right up.
Another problem with option 2 is the affiliates controlled the broadcast.
ABC would have had to contact aka make a phone call to hundreds? of stations and ask them to set up the split screen and include the network feed.
That's crazy that Bill Cower and Mike Tomlin both the past and current Steelers head coach both appearantly seemed to possibly have tried to trip opposing ball carrier's
What I remember most about this game was Bill Cowher's raw reaction (ready to punch) to Chris Hudson's game-ending return. Also, in both 1997 & '98, I had the Jax Jags pegged for the Super Bowl, but they just couldn't do it (a buddy of mine picked up that particular ball in '99, but we know how THAT ended:-). Another fun note is that I've been staying in the Jacksonville area (it's a huge area in a big way; I spend most of my time in Fruit Cove & working at the Sawgrass Marriott in Ponte Vedra) since early February 2020 (COVID had made the experience less fun, and man, do the recent edition of the Jax Jags stink!).
The word you're looking for is "pegged" lol. Pegging is something different
surprised abc decided to not show it, it would never ever happen today, today they would cut out for the XP, or just show it to there sister station like espn 2
I would've been in favor of having Al Michaels do a brief cut-in after the local news and before Nightline (or during prime-time programming on the West Coast) to note what happened and note the final score. Yes, a lot of folks might still be surprised if they went to bed before the cut-in, but it's better than not noting the moment at all.
And as far as option 2 is concerned, yes, analog screens were smaller back then. But we had TV's with picture-in-picture, so I don't think it's the aesthetics that would've stopped it. I think the fact that, except for the west coast, the affiliates were on locally with late local news, the logistics would've been difficult. And for an XP that didn't change the end result, even if it screwed over some teasers, it would've been deemed not worth it in 1997.
Maybe you could do a show outside the box of Alcoa's Fantastic Finishes. Dig up some stuff that we might not know about.
Don’t bet on a sport you don’t know the rules to
The play known as the kick six between Baltimore and Cleveland did not have a PAT attempt. At that time, it would have to be kicked. But because Monday Night Football was on ESPN, it could cut away from Sports Center.
--- Extra point costly to Las Vegas "betters?" --- (11:22) The television didn't know the rules, the newspaper couldn't spell. Good old days.
I'm shocked this wasn't the reason for getting rid of that rule. Its crazy to me that it took so long for it to be changed and the one that got it to change wasn't even as bad as this situation was. Craziness
I was born right after this game was over
I was in the office squares pool for this game. I thought I had won the $50 pool until they kicked the extra point after the broadcast. I was pissed.
5:10
I wish they kept the rule like it was.
You’re taking points away from the kicker.
I mean it sounds silly…….but if he’s trying to kick the most points in one season……then it isn’t so silly.
The Same thing Happened in the NFL Ref strike season in 2012 where the Packers and Seahawks had to play an extra point and the Packers refused to take the field due to a call that was not good where the play should have been a Touchback for the Packers so they sent as much of the backup players and barely lined up after a 12--15 minute thing of trying to figure out how to get a team back and getting Packers to want to do the kick an extra point after for the touchdown. Since this was an ESPN sports thing for Monday night having swapped Monday night for Sunday night on the big networks in 2010 or so, they could play on with the extra kick and delay the Sports Center program.
1997: "Cut away from the nightly news to miss the important goings on for a unimportant extra point"
2021: I'll rather watch more football even if it's an extra point, it's football!
This is a great example of when people overthink a situation.
So, not exactly shades of the “Heidi Game” (Jets at Raiders, 11/17/1968), but close enough. 😜
I wonder if any of the books paid out bets before they found out about the updated final score.
Option 1 would have required the local stations to cut back to network on their own. Networks do not have a takeover button. As a local news producer myself, once my newscast starts, nothing short of a call from the president of the network is convincing me to relinquish control…..at midnight…..on a Monday. local spots in local programming do have an expiration. Going back to network that late would almost certainly negate doing the news at all, as by then, none of the commercials would count, and would have to be made good at a later time.
Damn my computer monitor is 24" inches, my tv was 19 inches lol
perfect for xmas eve