@@imperialisticvonhabsburg3149 idk, all i remember about the end times is something along the lines of: Gelt doesn't get backstabbed by *CENSORED* Malekith isn't the pheonix king Grimgor kicks archaon in the balls Thorgrim doesn't get killed by snikch because he left a trap door open Teclis isn't a two faced sonofabitch Alith Anar and Grombrindal don't just forgive Malekith like nothing happened DId i miss anything important?
seeing the Beastmen on the A tier minimum is truly a beacon of hope for every faction in the game. With only one rework they managed to propel this race into one of the most fun to play and strongest faction in the game. Shame that it took so long but I can only think that they are definitely capable of bringing WoC and Norsca to their true potential should they will it
@@urdaanglospey6666 Next year, actually. It's been pushed to early 2022. All the Chaos gods will have their respective factions, with Kairos Fateweaver hinted to be the LL for the Tzeentchian deamons, seeing as it's probably him you can see in the background of the first Cathay trailer.
@@necfreon6259 Not like the keeper of the book, Thorgrim, didn't realize the flaws in the Dwarf culture but he couldn't really change the conditions cause those flaws. Especially when many flaws came from their ancestor gods
im glad i clicked on this video to but i just spend 223hrs doing teclas on normal in the vortex and ended up with entire map coverage with a finishing turn 336 17.73mil total expenditure, 250+ battles won. fighting 3skaven clans and hexotal at the same time so im thinking teclas should be a super or atleast an A
@@glredneck5239 High Elves, Normal, and Vortex. How much of an easier start can you possibly have? Of course it'd be an S in that case, but not on mortal empires and legendary mode.
@@Musabre im learning that now on ledgend with very hard on mortal.. first time playing on this difficulty, didnt realise there was such a random power balance throughout difficulties
@@glredneck5239 Yeah it is a bit overly lopsided. The difference in what units are viable, down to which factions can even survive economically, varies massively from normal to legendary, and between vortex and mortal empires.
i actually like the huntsmarshall mechanic as it makes sense for some random human showing up sacking and settling lustria to have lizardman armies go after them every now and then. the one thing i hate is the fact that outside of lustria the mechanic still kicks in. sacking cult of pleasure settlements for some reason pisses off lizardmen to come and raze a lustrian city i own
The thing is it never goes away even after you kill off the lizerdmen it makes the campaign absolute pain if you plan on playing it after you conquer lustria
@@sorkvild1473 I mean the lizardmen are smart enough to realise that if your forces are somewhere else then it's difficult to get back and defend your territory.
The one thing that turns me off that campaign is the fact that you fight almost only in dense forest at the start. But your lord is an archer... And your hunter heroes. Three of them are ranged units. I mean cmon. You cant shoot anyone.
Glad to see Skaven up there with DE and HE. I definitely think they're the easiest race. Legend likes the elves because he's fine with doing a ton of micro. He can be 6 hours in and not past turn 20
This pretty much corresponds 100% with my perception of how big of a pain in the ass any given faction is whenever I play the game and they're my opposition.
@@chrisd3830 oh yeah I mean I bet there's only a handful of people with the campaign meta-knowledge and skill that are as good as him. But to bring out the full power of High Elves requires trait farming, sack cities, and tons of hero actions. Just really micro and labor intensive stuff which is right up his alley
This would be correct if not for his intial disclaimer where he states he wont put all HE or DE in s because he feels it doesnt actually show their ranking within the race. Most HE and DE would be S or A if not for that
I've never played Clan Eshin before, but I was aware that the AI use the Shadowy Dealings mechanic. What I didn't know was their ability to delete a faction--which I've witnessed them use... On Late-game Naggarond... one moment Naggarond is rank 1, and the next I get the message they were destroyed and all of their settlements turned Dark Elf Rebels. I saved the game and restarted the turn, and they survived the end-turn that time, so I just thought it was a glitch Clan Eshin SUS
@@MrKandova I haven't played on Hard difficulty but I think the key is to raze or conquer Black Krag. Because that's where he trains spams of Black Orcs and gets upkeep buffs for them.
@@grimgoreironhide9985 Thanks, I will try that next time. I was rushing the faction in the north of me and by the time I came back, it was already too late haha
The context of this list is "long campaign ME" on top of legendary. Huntsmarshal's expedition would need multiple ratings if we looked at all contexts. It's short campaign on vortex is a pretty tightly designed challenge with some out of build order units and powerful heros keeping things fun. Short campaign on ME is focused entirely on Lustria which may be tolerable. Long campaign on ME deserves a rating of "trash" below D due to the non-stop lizard attacks. In short. Huntsmarshal is at the most fun vortex short campaign. Beyond that it gets progressively less fun approaching trash.
@@Joeyjoejoe1708 what always killed me, it may have been fixed now, but you get aggression penalties for attacking VC and Orks...so Lizard men get pissed you are attacking their destruction race buddies , yah makes total sense.
Just want to say, I’m loving how animated and excited Legend is sounding recently. He’s the Lord of Cheese, but also a regular guy, and it’s great. Keep up the awesome work dude!
I think he's happy because he's taking a break from live streaming. Hopefully he was able to get to his preferred holiday destination and comes back reinvigorated for TWWIII's launch.
It's just a shame when some twat comes into the chat to badger with unrelated questions or the same joke that's been repeated so often people in nursing homes know it.
Legend seems to have overlooked (or at least declined to mention) one of the most ridiculous thing about Avelorn - the tier 3 handmaiden buildings! This raises your handmaiden cap insanely fast, which in turn makes it possible to have an enormous amount of characters very early, and each of the handmaidens can boost growth by 10 - 40. Most HE factions have growth issues, Avelorn does not.
Do High Elves really have growth issues ? There growth always seemed pretty decent to me, at least compared to Dwarfs. Still useful information to keep in mind, thank you.
Let me guess - life magic, because you can heal your stupid monster unit doomstacks and vampire magic next, because of deathwind and heal for endead units, fire is next and other magicks pretty same, but death or shadow magic, because Legend don't like them.
If you're new to the game, Legend also has a video with top 5 easiest starting positions, but it may be a bit outdated. Most notably, I think he mentioned Naggarond in there, which still has an easy start, but can be tricky later when the Chaos invades.
Something worth mentioning is Grombrindal's Living Ancestor mechanic. The Grungni and Valaya options are very helpful in developing provinces, especially in the early game.
Hello. I am kind of new to the game? Why are the warriors of chaos listed so low? I got told they had the best Infantery in the game. The corruption is most of the time easy to deal with but very annoying.
magic tier is good but in SP it really come down to the buff for the caster(cooldown, wind cost reduction, pool reserve increase) , so the ranking maybe very complicated topic
If he's able to make a 50 minute faction tier list video, a regiment of renown list could be possible since it's much easier to explain stats, rather than strategies or circustances for the factions.
That was very educational, Legend, I'm deeply thankful for the work you're putting into these tier lists, they make me re-evaluate my views and re-examine my knowledge, which is always good. Cheers!
I actually enjoy these videos just as much as the live streams, sometimes even more. They are well detailed, straight to the point, and not that long to watch. Definitely keep making all these great videos.
Yeah we're just waiting for the Warhammer 3 chaos factions at this point. Even though Warriors of Chaos were one of the earliest races added to the Warhammer total war games, they have just been trash the whole time which is quite sad.
Not only that if this was a fun teir list they would be even lower, like in a teir of their own. They better get a major update with total warhammer 3.
Yes! Was hoping for one of these. Just wanted to say I really appreciate all the effort you put into these. You’re the man. Keep up the amazing work but make sure to take care of yourself! You deserve it!! Love ya bro
From the look at the end of the video, this chart looks actually quite well balanced. I would say CA did a great job with the games and DLCs. And it´s undeniable just how well the refurbished the Beastmen, BEFORE their latest DLC they probably would have been bottom rank as well.
we can only hope that the dwarfs get some more love in the future, because chaos will definitly be updated (i mean the 4 chaoslords are now factions...) but they all lack a little bit behind. same with norsca
In your future tier lists of a faction, please include heroes and their mounted variants. And Ogres too. Their usefulness only matters within each individual roster, and so these videos are the best place to discuss them. A mounted hero can turn a meh mount into something epic, or not much of a difference at all, so it does matter.
Loving the videos legend, it's making me even more excited for your streams when they come back. I hope you're having a great break from streaming, looking forward to even more content like this in the future!
I honestly like the loyalty mechanic, it's easy enough to manage and gives you a bunch of rewards once in a while it's just bad right after confederations or when playing vampire coast (because normal vampire coast lords have very specific conditions on how to increase their loyalty and furthermore lack a loyalty increasing hero like the skaven chieftain or the darkelf assassin)
There is also a cheese with it. If a lord is 2 loyalty and you disband a unit, it cancels the disband and the lord rebels. I stronly surgest you look at mercy the mads guide.
loving these. they are not typical legend content, but i dont think this is a bad thing. its a little bit of variety which helps spice things up, its relatively quick and easy to produce content for legend, and its arguably extremely useful information from someone who knows quite a lot about playing on legendary difficulty.
Don't worry Legend, as someone who really enjoys playing as the dwarves I know its not your name that needs to go in the book, Its CA's. There is so much that the dawi could use in the game that is just never given to them. I'd like being able to take units of miners from the army and "store" them at the start of a battle, then be able to deploy them similar to menace below, these "spawned" miners would have to come from the army's roster so you aren't getting an extra unit, but they also wouldn't decay, would be great for sieges and taking out artillery, Also the Dawi artifacts should be a faction wide thing, theres no reason only one of the clans would care about artifacts of the ancestors. the list goes on and on, From Large machines, to a bigger selection of Lords to choose from, CA basically ignored almost till the 3 game had come out. so yeah Thats the Real Grudge.
They really should have pushed the oathgold WAY more. Like if you're taking in oath gold you should be able to use it to speed build provinces and armies, recruit better heroes, etc. I like the rune crafting, but I also think putting a crafting cap on them is really blah. That, and the crafted gear needs a rework, most of the items are really weak and Dwarf gear should be objectively better than the stuff you get from drops. That's a big part of their thing. That and Runesmiths should have WAY better antimagic.
@@zudra2636 agreed, honestly most of the crafted gear is just semi useless, like any item that give more leader ship is nearly a waste for Dwarves, it should be mostly melee defense and ward save or physical or magical resist.
i love when you do tier lists because you put the work to explain why you made your choices, and instead of just saying this is "a" because its strong, you rank them by their use, and abilities through out the game.
Eataine should be S tier. They have the easiest and best starting location, they can confederate faster with with +20 diplomacy relations, and Recruitment duration of 1 turn for Sisters of Avelorn is a massive advantage.
Avelorn also has Treemen and easier access (T3 +minor settlements) to Sisters. Plus Alarielle is pretty op, too. Legend did make a good distinction imo between the 3 tiers of High Elf factions. They're pretty much still a tier above than their place on the list though lol. Nagarythe and Eshin would probably deserve some Mythic tier rank.
@@Grivehn Yes Avelorn is pretty good. I think Eataine stronger because they can confederate faster than Avelorn. They are both stronger than Naggarond.
I never recruit Tree Spirits as Avelorn because lack of buffs from generic lords, competition with Alarielle's other unique buffs and limited recruitment (unless I'm just playing High Elves wrong). But yes tier 3 Sisters is very good
As with most of your content, Legend, good work. I always appreciate getting the expert weighing in on things, and these tier lists make it pretty easy to visualize differences that are otherwise hard to articulate. I especially think you got the Lizardmen and Tomb Kings spot on, and the Dwarves, regardless of their popularity lol There's only two things I have a quibble about - I think that Dreadfleet is not as strong as the other A-tier factions and probably should be B tier. Like if you compare a Dreadfleet campaign and an Awakened campaign, they're fairly similar in terms of power, speed, and economy. Noctilus boosts their best units, and Harkon boosts armies in general - I think Noctilus still gets an edge bc the campaign movement boost can be significant but you can't rely on it. When I look at say, Itza, Cult of Sotek, or the modern Beastmen, I feel like most of the A tier are a cut above any of the Vampire Coast. My second thing isn't related to the rankings at all - I've played a Norsca on normal recently, and they're not a major powerhouse anymore - they can still be strong, but the Norsca campaign even on normal isn't very strong and can be an absolute pain to really make progress. Mind, still doable, just if any faction is the equivalent of hitting your head against a wall, right now it's Norsca.
@@jtowensbyiii6018 Because the fun things are so heavily concentrated in one race for the skaven compared to alot of the other races, fun things are great but they are much less great when one faction gets so heavily favored content wise, skaven has gotten more fun mechanics than anyone else and would you believe it that isnt too much fun for non skaven players, as an example skaven gets nukes vampire coast gets the old shitty empire office system that was changed for a reason. No one is against fun things but they should be equally spread out which they were most definitely not for tww2
@@BattIeFrog I recomend you open a book, they're simply making factions from the old world, and they get better at it over time, it's no conspiracy lmao
@@jtowensbyiii6018 Have i said there was a conspiracy? I said that skaven has gotten the largest chunk of interesting content despite the fact that many of the other races and factions could have recieved equal treatment, yet again as with the vampire coast it is a unique faction it did not really exist properly before CA and CA had an enourmous amount of freedom with them yet what they have are just watered down mechanics of other factions while the skaven get DLC upon DLC of unique and interesting content, doesnt have to be a bias or conspiracy but that does not mean it is excusable. As you said "why not have fun things" except it should be "why not have fun things for everyone" instead of concentrating it within one race in the way it has been done.
Now this really is value added content. Kind of answers all those continual livestream questions. He should bookmark this in an FAQ section of his livestream descriptions...
25:55 Oh I remember my Khalida campaign. I had to ally with random Beastmen armies to deal with the Last Defenders because my economy and infrastructure just didn't allow for anything that would crunch through the lizards. After I had conquered the Southlands, the Dawi got angry at something or other and forced me to spend the rest of the campaign with most of my armies tied down defending my Badlands settlements and chasing after underwaying Dwarf bastards.
One of the few campaigns I left a save on turn 1 for quick restarts. If you want a good campaign you need to get the start perfect. It took me a few tries before I was satisfied
AbsolUTELY love these tier lists! Gives me a good idea of a good feel for the game! Thanks for you continued contributions towards the Total War series!
I feel like you definitely underrated Chaos and at least the Von Carsteins (if not all of the VC). Chaos has honestly been one of the easiest and most fun campaigns I've played. It's pretty simple: 1. Rampage through Norscan territory to awaken as many tribes as you can. 2. Head over to Ulthuan to get SoK and ally with the Dark Elves. 3. Rush Shaggoths. 4. Ally with EVERYONE that you don't have to eliminate to win. Literally anyone that asks you for an alliance. Your allies will (eventually) take care of your ruin dwellers problem. Crush the high elves before heading back to the old world to win your campaign, and your Druchi allies will make it so easy for you. For the Counts, I think you underestimate how many people use skeleton spam by now. For the Von Carsteins, don't underestimate the power of starting off with two heroes instead of the 0 or 1 most factions get, and how easy it is to recruit and increase capacity for vampire heroes. I would argue that this alone makes the Von Carsteins by far the strongest old world faction, even on par with Carcasonne using exploits.
His playstyle heavily effects his ratings as well. Chaos is winnable, but it's neither fun nor efficient, especially at the difficulties he plays at. Not only that but he is a heavy ranged focus player and Chaos has very limited and weak (In campaign) ranged units (they're multiplayer gods though). It's not that there are strategies, it's just that in on itself it's quite low. Same with counts. He's a heavily ranged focused player, and the vampire counts have zero ranged.
An idea Legend, repeat these tier lists on normal difficulty if the differences are vast enough to warrant it. There's a lot more people playing on lower difficulties than on legendary, so that content will likely appeal to your audience.
I don’t think tier is affected by difficulty that much (unless you’re doing something like save scumming for dark elf names of power). It just makes the game easier. What you might be asking for is a tier list based on how easy a faction is to play/get through the early game? For example mortal empires Tor Yvresse is S tier, but a newer player would have some trouble getting used to using 2 armies from turn 1 (or might not know to abandon one of the start locations until they’re more experienced with high elves)
@@ethanomihombre the battle difficulty on lower completely changes the game for melee units, an example is greenskins on legendary all their top tier are trash so they struggle in the late game but without the ai cheats to battle, something like balance builds and rush builds are very viable, especially rush builds but i think there shouldnt be a tier list on the lower difficulties, it just makes some of the low tier races go up a part like dwarfs and with the fixes to cav, cav will perform as intended.
@@vikingbanana2404 Melee infantry is still terrible relative to ranged on lower difficulties imo, it's just not as bad. What I was trying to say is that even on lower difficulties in my opinion the relative strength of factions still stays mostly identical. Even if lower tier factions become easier, so do the higher tier ones. Greenskins might be an exception to this (I rarely play them), or I might just be wrong.
Vote for normal Heroes tier list next. May be category by tanking, magic, range, support or as you see fit. Really curious that which hero can deal with each others.
Oh nice! You did this based on strength, I uploaded my rating of the legendary/VH campaigns based on fun just a couple of days ago. Definitely some correlation here between us (nakai tier at the bottom, haha!!).
I wanted to thank you so much.. i am a new player to total war in general (just really never played it before), and these tier lists really explain everything i need to know so i am not completely lost... so thank you! :)
@@tetika8098 Do kepe in mind this is for the HARDEST difficulty in the game. And like Legend said Norsca, the D tier race is S tier on normal difficulty.
Hi! I am not a very experienced player, so thank you for the effort and info you put into this video! There is one point on which i would disagree - the Warriors of Chaos rating. It is not easy, but without only a fair amount of cheese the Old World can be just obliterated and then ten main threat are High Elves (duh) and the Black Arks with their major ports attacks. Anything else can be dealt with fairly minor (late-game wise) patrol forces or economy raiding. While skaven engagements will be the most pain in the ass due to artillery, anything else can be balanced, but there is no way of winning late game multi-army fights with a single lord + troops, you need reinforcement with additional artillery. The ruin dwelling can actually be a good source of income if controlled and strictly localized, which is hard. So, IMHO, i'd put them at High C rank. Again, thanks for the work, there was a lot of useful info!
Super excited to look back on this in a few months post the launch of 3. It'll be interesting to see how each of the races/factions have potentially shifted and where the new ones settle in.
Great video, as a guy who recently got into this game it makes me sad that my absolute favorite race in warhammer, chaos warriors, is hot garbage, but at least playing them makes everything else feel like easy mode!…
Whenever I confed Louen Leoncoure he always has Questing vow units and Grail vow units free but not Knights vow ones for some reason - so Hippogryph Knights are free but Pegasus Knights are not. Curious when CA will fix that. P.S. As Warriors of Chaos just find some friend to dwell raized settlements (like Moulder for example). Pretty fun play then
nothing beats a warrior of chaos army with 4 hellcannons 4 chaos knights, 4 chaos warrior, 4 chaos halberds and depending on how many heroes the army has 2 to 3 shaggoths.
Hey, great tierlist again! I think the Heralds of Ariel are a S tier faction tho! (many reasons) The faction traits, while buffing hawk riders, also give 10% extra range for all armies, amazing for a missile based faction. The special attack for hawk riders boosts garrisons by a lot indeed. The start is relatively easy, Khatep can be farmed for xp for a one or two turns, Alith Anar won't attack you thanks to sharing the same enemy, so he can be a trade buddy even on legendary. With the weapon from the forge that reduces army upkeep, it's possible to get a second army fairly soon. Later on WE don't need that much armies since they have a very versatile 'doomstack' roster: treemen, waywatcher), and the one with bladesingers, all of them roll over anything as long as you're the attacker. Thanks to the +10% extra range and potentially a lord with Talon of Kurnous, waywatchers still work well with this faction. While their armies don't have the stalk stance, they can still ambush with 10% movement left. As for defending, WE have a great global recruitment capacity for emergencies, however I can't remember if they can recruit in one turn or two deepwood scouts (I think it's 1 but it's probably 2). During the campaign, the worldroots are available quite often up until long campaign victory as you do rituals over rituals. Even though WE economy sucks, they still get a decent amount of money with sacks, post-battle loot, and Naestra's grace (3 turns with a +5% physical resistance too!), enough to have an other army while having a minor deficit. As for the other bonus, Arahan's wrath (+5% missile damage, +4 leadership, 3 turns) it's fairly decent too. One of Daith's rituals make them immune to all attritions for 5 turns, useful to beat Morathi, cross seas and against Norsca. As for controlling territories, stacking the public order/untainted in adjacent provinces building in every outpost make it so easy to control any territory (like +60 untainted in one province). Can't remember if WE have unhospitable territories or not. Last but not least, WE are probably the strongest magic users thanks to their gigantic pool of winds available to them so early. Knowledgeable spellweavers (spellsinger lords) are very easy to get too. So definitely S tier for me, I've missed a few more pros like high replenishment and diplomacy bonuses which are more tied to the WE mechanics.
@Legendoftotalwar Thanks for all the effort you put into educating us potatos on a game that can be quite overwhelming at times. Been watching your Warhammer videos for quite a while now and my gameplay has definitely improved with your advice. Thanks, keep up the great work and cheers from the states!
Thank you for making this. I totally caught up with some Total War with my new rig and the sales. Now I can better see what's good, I've been playing this game trying to find my favorite faction play style. So hard.
while that would be funny, it wouldn't quite match the educational purpose of these videos. it suffices just fine putting him in the bottom rank without making a rank explicity for him
@@syrusalder7795 right but legend HATES throgg and has carved out special exceptions to make fun of him (like the worst unit in each faction lists giant for everyone who has them except norsca because throgg
Hero tierlist would be amazing. It would include all the heroes in the game, unique one included/excluded depends on what you want, and you rank them from S to D
There should be an extra bonus for order factions as at the moment almost every campaign I played as long as you survive until chaos invasion makes them all unite and steamroll the rest of the map. Which usually ends with you getting an long campaign victory no matter how strong within the order you have been.
Sartosa goes in C *begins loading blunderbuss* Mentions that Aranessa doesn't really fit with Vampire Coast *stops* And yes, Legend's name is front and center in most holds' Dammaz Kron. Thorgrim's even considering a separate volume just for him.
Oxyotl should be A tier. If you are willing to expand slowly, the faction gives: - Full vision of everything - Free/almost free armies thanks to overlapping -upkeep bonuses along with stupid strong amounts of cash from post battle loot. - Automatic ambushes that can completely hamstring an AI in their own territory and also give constant loot influx from taking out random lone lords every turn for ~5000 cash. On top of this the teleportation ability means you can relocate from the crappy starting position to almost anywhere on the map very easily. In my campaign I took teleported to Queek immediately and had a nice cozy hugbox with the tomb kings to the west and Kroq Gar.
All scaven have food mechanic that makes them OP. Getting lvl 3 settlements at turn 1-2 = they get to pull out their late game units early. getting plague claw catapult at turn 7 = strongest army in the game for the next 20-30 turns. Nothing can stop you except a rite of primeval glory. Kroq gar cannot even hold a candle to that.
With how much everyone is loving the beastmen update, I’m thinking we can expect some good reworks for chaos and norsca at some point. I’m thinking they could even just rip heard stones off completely and repaint them as chaos gates if nothing else.
I love to play dwarfes, but I agree that they are in need of a rework of some kind again Not a overhaul or something like that but in some ways there is need of a change Its like there is a factionswide campaign mechanic is missing where its about growth for earlygame or kind of like special kind of underway for the late game perhaps But still my favorite race to play But you dont land in my Book of Grudges just for saying that, so dont worry about me :) Perhaps there is a possibility that there will come a rework for the dwarfs somewhere in warhammer 3 in addition to perhaps another legendary Lord Something regarding the chaosdwarfs would be ideal, but we will see
Used Instant Gaming quite a lot since i was introduced to it by Legend. Never had a problem with it and often find that the prices batch or more often better all the other sites that i check before any purchase. Highly recommended, especially for Euro market.
i think you did vampire counts dirty. because of their very rich economy, bonuses to public order, big replenishment bonuses they can expand much faster than most factions in A tier. you also mentioned you dont count skelespamming( even though its not a glitch, just most effective strategy) but for the orcs you said their strenght is crapstacking and vampires do that much more effectively
I play 10 vortex campaigns for each mortal empires campaign, so this was interesting to see how certain factions are weaker or stronger for mortal empires.
In regards to the Spirit of the Jungle! You can ask your vassal almost every second turn for money up to 10k. That really helps your economy. Then you also have the rite where later on can easily spam for 50% more income from the vassal.
I think you are underrating Wood Elf factions, they are very easy to play on legendary campaign and very hard battle difficulty. The ability to port between the 8 forests around the map, and the relative ease with which you can confederate or capture these forests provides a platform from which it is so easy to dominate the world map quick. My last Wood Elves campaign I'm obtaining strength rank 1 within first 20 turns and easily maintaining this to the point I can play 'this is total war' with consummate ease.
Very small side note on the high elves: not only do they have acces to stronk factions leaders, can recruit stronk units, they can maintain a large number of armies ( 20+ entrepenuers in Lothern seems legit) and have acces to good faction mechanics ( or excelent mechanics with Eltahrion and Alith Anar), but they also have acces to the largest number of lores of magic ( so stronk, especialy if you like to have a healer in your armies). Here’s an interesting ideea: Play as Eltharion and send a hero to find Imrik asap, since he will be pretty easy to confederate and stick him with “the sentinel” at level 15.
You have a faction POWER ranking, but I'd like to see a fun ranking tier list. For example, Tyrion is certainly stronger than Teclis, but I've always thought Teclis was much more entertaining. A fun tier list would perhaps be eye opening for choosing the next campaign to play.
Fun is too subjective. I agree with 99% of the placement of this list for the most part with exception of how strong Grombrindal is as a faction lead but fun means different things to different people.
Handy video. Got me thinking more about faction mechanics and a little less on raw rosters for comparing factions. If you're doing more unit tier lists, I'd love to see Chaos and Norsca. It'd be neat to see what you think the good bits are in the worse races.
On the note of Aranessa at 25:00, that's because she isn't a Vampire Coast lord. Well, ok she is, but not really. Ironically she's kind of a Norscan, a mutant mermaid who they chucked into the sea at birth for deformity (hence why she hates them) before she later cut off her tail, strapped some pegs to herself, and joined up with pirates. In game she even calls a "Vampire Coast" a stupid idea, only working with the undead cause she thinks the sea god wants her to. Add to that the fact that Cylostra was specifically made for this game, and you can tell they didn't have too much to work with regarding the VCs in the leader department.
I abasolutely LOVE the Dwarfs but I have to agree with everything you've said. The only thing they beat nearby factions out on is staying power and armor. Get jumped by 8000 Skaven? Form a circle and carve them down until you can strategically retreat.
Gotta disagree with Dwarf placement. I really like how they get the mechanicle bonus of being shorter. Especially as a lover of the handguns! I mean there are ways to not just shoot from behind melee, but it is nice that Dwarfs can due to hight xD
Best thing about Durthu's faction is that he has a 25% upkeep reduction in owned territory for all his armies... I think. He has at the very least. So you can move around and just conquer territory on your way to objectives and keep a low upkeep for his armies. It was added in the patch after the sisters/throt release.
I'm very sad about Nakai. There's one, ONE change they could make to his campaign to fix SO much about him, and that would be making it possible to initiate any kind of diplomacy (INCLUDING WAR) with his vassal faction aside from trade agreements. Want Military Access even, make it go through Nakai.
I liked a very hard Morathi campaign because you can train up Morathi really easy. Yes you get constantly pressured for like 50 turns, but this gives you the money to get 2 strong armies (and the ability to get a lot of slaves early) really early, and once you get momentum you can crush the entirety of ulthuan.
![[4K] Watch SpaceX Catch A Starship Rocket From Space!!! #IFT5](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pIKI7y3DTXk/mqdefault.jpg)
"beastman horde can be good" this is a sentence that was a blasphemy 6 month ago
if you got to minotaurs then yeah
Von Carstein should be S tier just because they are governed by two people in a functional relationship.
Until end of times xp
@@Lesec we dont talk about end times
@@Lesec Until what?
@@imperialisticvonhabsburg3149 the end of the world 🌎 🥸
@@imperialisticvonhabsburg3149 idk, all i remember about the end times is something along the lines of:
Gelt doesn't get backstabbed by *CENSORED*
Malekith isn't the pheonix king
Grimgor kicks archaon in the balls
Thorgrim doesn't get killed by snikch because he left a trap door open
Teclis isn't a two faced sonofabitch
Alith Anar and Grombrindal don't just forgive Malekith like nothing happened
DId i miss anything important?
seeing the Beastmen on the A tier minimum is truly a beacon of hope for every faction in the game. With only one rework they managed to propel this race into one of the most fun to play and strongest faction in the game. Shame that it took so long but I can only think that they are definitely capable of bringing WoC and Norsca to their true potential should they will it
Khorne and Be'lakor are S-tier
I'm REALLY hoping they introduce Tzeentch in WH3. That should spice things up :)
@@urdaanglospey6666
Isn't that already confirmed?
@@christiandauz3742 SWEET! I haven't had time to keep up on it as much as I'd prefer. I'm vaguely aware it's set to release this year :P
@@urdaanglospey6666 Next year, actually. It's been pushed to early 2022. All the Chaos gods will have their respective factions, with Kairos Fateweaver hinted to be the LL for the Tzeentchian deamons, seeing as it's probably him you can see in the background of the first Cathay trailer.
"Stupidly stubborn" is actually the perfect description of Warhammer dwarfs lolol
Nothing like playing a self insert race in a War Hammer setting
MARK DIS DAY IN DA BEWK!
@@nilsjonsson1133 if only the book can actually give them power
@@necfreon6259
Not like the keeper of the book, Thorgrim, didn't realize the flaws in the Dwarf culture but he couldn't really change the conditions cause those flaws. Especially when many flaws came from their ancestor gods
@@necfreon6259 +1000 gold and less grumpy longbeards is also a form of power :)
Never thought he'd make this particular tier list. Easily one of his most detailed, best videos. Great job Legend!
im glad i clicked on this video to but i just spend 223hrs doing teclas on normal in the vortex and ended up with entire map coverage with a finishing turn 336 17.73mil total expenditure, 250+ battles won. fighting 3skaven clans and hexotal at the same time so im thinking teclas should be a super or atleast an A
@@glredneck5239 thing is that’s on normal difficulty while he’s rating it on legendary
@@glredneck5239 High Elves, Normal, and Vortex. How much of an easier start can you possibly have? Of course it'd be an S in that case, but not on mortal empires and legendary mode.
@@Musabre im learning that now on ledgend with very hard on mortal.. first time playing on this difficulty, didnt realise there was such a random power balance throughout difficulties
@@glredneck5239 Yeah it is a bit overly lopsided. The difference in what units are viable, down to which factions can even survive economically, varies massively from normal to legendary, and between vortex and mortal empires.
i actually like the huntsmarshall mechanic as it makes sense for some random human showing up sacking and settling lustria to have lizardman armies go after them every now and then. the one thing i hate is the fact that outside of lustria the mechanic still kicks in.
sacking cult of pleasure settlements for some reason pisses off lizardmen to come and raze a lustrian city i own
also even if you kill every single lizard.
It should have some mechanic to make it disapear for example destroying lustrian lizards or main quest.
The thing is it never goes away even after you kill off the lizerdmen it makes the campaign absolute pain if you plan on playing it after you conquer lustria
But it makes less sense when you beat the Dark Elves on far north, lizard are pissed and attack you in the south jungle
@@sorkvild1473 I mean the lizardmen are smart enough to realise that if your forces are somewhere else then it's difficult to get back and defend your territory.
The one thing that turns me off that campaign is the fact that you fight almost only in dense forest at the start. But your lord is an archer... And your hunter heroes. Three of them are ranged units. I mean cmon. You cant shoot anyone.
Fifty minutes of CONCENTRATED pleasure, Morathi does approve.
I can feel my Chaos corruption increasing with each minute!
Make sure to not finish prematurely!
"Adequate. Yes, Adequate "
thank god he did this tier list cause other content creators have a truely trash tier ranking list on factions
малекит ты?
S- 5pts
A- 4pts
B- 3pts
C- 2pts
D- 1pt
Sum of a races points, averaged
High elves- 4
Dark elves - 4
Lizard men - 2.71
Skaven - 4.34
Vampire coast - 3
Tombkings- 3
Empire - 2.67
Dwarfs- 2.25
Greenskins- 3
Vampire counts - 3
Norsca- 1
Brettonia - 3.25
Wood elves- 2.50
Beastmen- 4.25
Chaos- 1
Glad to see Skaven up there with DE and HE. I definitely think they're the easiest race. Legend likes the elves because he's fine with doing a ton of micro. He can be 6 hours in and not past turn 20
@@NightCheese89 but on the other hand his. Basically won by turn 60 so
This pretty much corresponds 100% with my perception of how big of a pain in the ass any given faction is whenever I play the game and they're my opposition.
@@chrisd3830 oh yeah I mean I bet there's only a handful of people with the campaign meta-knowledge and skill that are as good as him. But to bring out the full power of High Elves requires trait farming, sack cities, and tons of hero actions. Just really micro and labor intensive stuff which is right up his alley
This would be correct if not for his intial disclaimer where he states he wont put all HE or DE in s because he feels it doesnt actually show their ranking within the race. Most HE and DE would be S or A if not for that
I've never played Clan Eshin before, but I was aware that the AI use the Shadowy Dealings mechanic. What I didn't know was their ability to delete a faction--which I've witnessed them use... On Late-game Naggarond... one moment Naggarond is rank 1, and the next I get the message they were destroyed and all of their settlements turned Dark Elf Rebels. I saved the game and restarted the turn, and they survived the end-turn that time, so I just thought it was a glitch
Clan Eshin SUS
AI Grimgor is probably the most powerful total war faction ever.. seriously this guy has conquered a quarter of the map by turn 20
He confederates with all the neighbouring Orc factions by beating their faction leaders. Then his power snowballs from there.
I'm new to the game and started my first very hard campaign with the dwarves yesterday and that guy ate me alive!
@@MrKandova I haven't played on Hard difficulty but I think the key is to raze or conquer Black Krag. Because that's where he trains spams of Black Orcs and gets upkeep buffs for them.
@@grimgoreironhide9985 Thanks, I will try that next time. I was rushing the faction in the north of me and by the time I came back, it was already too late haha
@@MrKandova yeah always go straight for Black Krag when playing Karaz a Karack
The context of this list is "long campaign ME" on top of legendary. Huntsmarshal's expedition would need multiple ratings if we looked at all contexts. It's short campaign on vortex is a pretty tightly designed challenge with some out of build order units and powerful heros keeping things fun. Short campaign on ME is focused entirely on Lustria which may be tolerable. Long campaign on ME deserves a rating of "trash" below D due to the non-stop lizard attacks.
In short. Huntsmarshal is at the most fun vortex short campaign. Beyond that it gets progressively less fun approaching trash.
I agree, full map completion in both ME and Vortex is unnecessarily annoying. Basically you trade 1 for 5 settlements
Yeah, it's a shame that the Lizard retaliations don't stop if you destroyed all Lizard factions or conquered territory outside of Lustria.
@@Joeyjoejoe1708 what always killed me, it may have been fixed now, but you get aggression penalties for attacking VC and Orks...so Lizard men get pissed you are attacking their destruction race buddies , yah makes total sense.
But lizardmen are an order race.
@@zachrobertson684 Last I checked you still got the aggro for it.
This is amazing its like the horned rats sits down and has the talk with your favorite faction
He laughs like skaven on a regular. It always cracks me up.
Just want to say, I’m loving how animated and excited Legend is sounding recently.
He’s the Lord of Cheese, but also a regular guy, and it’s great.
Keep up the awesome work dude!
I think he's happy because he's taking a break from live streaming.
Hopefully he was able to get to his preferred holiday destination and comes back reinvigorated for TWWIII's launch.
It's just a shame when some twat comes into the chat to badger with unrelated questions or the same joke that's been repeated so often people in nursing homes know it.
Surprised he’s been able to play this game so damn long lol
@@matthewosterman9030 I mean it's his job and passion, im more surprised he has been playing total war games since i idk +15 years now?
Legend seems to have overlooked (or at least declined to mention) one of the most ridiculous thing about Avelorn - the tier 3 handmaiden buildings! This raises your handmaiden cap insanely fast, which in turn makes it possible to have an enormous amount of characters very early, and each of the handmaidens can boost growth by 10 - 40. Most HE factions have growth issues, Avelorn does not.
also early sisters of avelorn are super strong
Was honestly pretty surprised not to see Averlorn in S tier
I just started playing recently and no wonder Avelorn was just dominating the whole game. So many characters so early I was barely able to catch up.
Do High Elves really have growth issues ? There growth always seemed pretty decent to me, at least compared to Dwarfs. Still useful information to keep in mind, thank you.
A Magic Tier List would be interesting as well.
Greetings from Germany.
Here’s hoping.
Although most factions don’t have access to many forms of magic.
Let me guess - life magic, because you can heal your stupid monster unit doomstacks and vampire magic next, because of deathwind and heal for endead units, fire is next and other magicks pretty same, but death or shadow magic, because Legend don't like them.
Yes please! Although he has done a top 5 lores of magic a long time ago which I don't think is at all up to date.
@@vadimkarpov3120 And what about plague?
I'd love this
Would absolutely love to see a Vampire Coast tier list at some stage in the future, keep up the good work mate
Same, i love this faction but i dislike a bunch of their unit roster
Necrofex Colossus S tier, everything else trash. Easy.
@@Assdafflabaff 28 seconds late to say the same.
"Aranessa would fit better as a Norscan legendary lord." I don't think Legend ever said a greater insult.
@@janosfakasz5133 well she is literally a norscan in the lore, also she’s not a vampire so her having undead units makes zero sense
Oh man , the timing is perfect , i just got the game with all dlc’s and dont no which one to start yet , this videos is so good
If you're new to the game, Legend also has a video with top 5 easiest starting positions, but it may be a bit outdated. Most notably, I think he mentioned Naggarond in there, which still has an easy start, but can be tricky later when the Chaos invades.
I did my legendary run with clan skyre, very powerful and fun to play, check them out.
@@stuartyaxley6689 Skaven can be tricky if it's his first time playing though
Start HE Campaign, namely Eataine. The most novice friendly race
For normal difficulty battle and campaign, get throgg from wintertooth. For legendary difficulty get taurox from beastmen.
Something worth mentioning is Grombrindal's Living Ancestor mechanic. The Grungni and Valaya options are very helpful in developing provinces, especially in the early game.
Regarding dwarfs, I'm mostly holding out hope that CA revisits them and gives them some good stuff for a dwarf v chaos dwarf dlc.
I was expecting you will add "F" tier at the end of the video and add Warriors of Chaos there :D
or better, call it the WoC tier
shit lizard horde is still worse
@@szmike I quite enjoyed Nakai. I mainly conquered Norsca.
@@sauromatae9728 One time I played Nakai and the Defenders of the Great Plan broke the vassalage and then declared war on me.
Hello. I am kind of new to the game? Why are the warriors of chaos listed so low? I got told they had the best Infantery in the game. The corruption is most of the time easy to deal with but very annoying.
I absolutely love these tier lists… and this is the list I didn’t even know I needed
Agreed
Yes, pump out more of those tier lists! Can't wait to see Wood Elves and Beastmen! Cheers.
Wood elves: Hawk Riders and Treemen Doomstack, everyone else... .TRASH!!! :D I can't wait, either, my faves.
I know he doesn't like Orion, but even without ability, hawk rider spam still feels pretty strong
Do any other fractions give them talon of kournos?
@@planomathandscience no, only the sisters
@@stevenmckinnon8498 Waywatcher Doomstack not to forget. Nerfed but still veeeeery powerful.
I'd like to see a school of magic tier list.
I think he already did this.
@@abad-enoughdude._.3919 nah he did a top 5 list, and I think he has changed his opinion on that list anyway
magic tier is good but in SP it really come down to the buff for the caster(cooldown, wind cost reduction, pool reserve increase) , so the ranking maybe very complicated topic
@@luckgood916 Legend values damage over buffs.
@@keenansweeeney187 I think he only changed his mind on life magic after he was using it in one of his live streams.
I think Regiment of Renown tier list would be too much, but I would love to know if any of units that I use are underperforming
If he's able to make a 50 minute faction tier list video, a regiment of renown list could be possible since it's much easier to explain stats, rather than strategies or circustances for the factions.
I would like to see something like that
I am almost always a bit underwhelmed with RoR units. Most of the time I just wait to use them for an emergency insta army.
If you ARE using them, you should be able to tell if they underperform or not, right ? What estatement is this xD
@@anonymouswombat8538 Well I just want Legends opinion on this, you have a problem with it?
That was very educational, Legend, I'm deeply thankful for the work you're putting into these tier lists, they make me re-evaluate my views and re-examine my knowledge, which is always good. Cheers!
I've seen a lot of other tier rankings for the factions but for me it just means so much more coming from legend.
I actually enjoy these videos just as much as the live streams, sometimes even more. They are well detailed, straight to the point, and not that long to watch. Definitely keep making all these great videos.
Man Warriors of Chaos being on D tier is so sad and accurate :(
Yeah we're just waiting for the Warhammer 3 chaos factions at this point. Even though Warriors of Chaos were one of the earliest races added to the Warhammer total war games, they have just been trash the whole time which is quite sad.
Its sad
What can you expect from Black metal fans
@@hammurabitheawesome674 Seriously. A major WoC rework NEEDS to happen in TWW3. Chaos fans have been waiting for 5 years now
Not only that if this was a fun teir list they would be even lower, like in a teir of their own. They better get a major update with total warhammer 3.
Yes! Was hoping for one of these. Just wanted to say I really appreciate all the effort you put into these. You’re the man. Keep up the amazing work but make sure to take care of yourself! You deserve it!! Love ya bro
From the look at the end of the video, this chart looks actually quite well balanced.
I would say CA did a great job with the games and DLCs.
And it´s undeniable just how well the refurbished the Beastmen, BEFORE their latest DLC they probably would have been bottom rank as well.
we can only hope that the dwarfs get some more love in the future, because chaos will definitly be updated (i mean the 4 chaoslords are now factions...) but they all lack a little bit behind. same with norsca
In your future tier lists of a faction, please include heroes and their mounted variants. And Ogres too. Their usefulness only matters within each individual roster, and so these videos are the best place to discuss them. A mounted hero can turn a meh mount into something epic, or not much of a difference at all, so it does matter.
Would love a recommendation guide to Moulder Mutations / Unit combinations! Your comment about making any unit potentially viable has inspired me!
Loving the videos legend, it's making me even more excited for your streams when they come back. I hope you're having a great break from streaming, looking forward to even more content like this in the future!
I honestly like the loyalty mechanic, it's easy enough to manage and gives you a bunch of rewards once in a while
it's just bad right after confederations or when playing vampire coast (because normal vampire coast lords have very specific conditions on how to increase their loyalty and furthermore lack a loyalty increasing hero like the skaven chieftain or the darkelf assassin)
There is also a cheese with it. If a lord is 2 loyalty and you disband a unit, it cancels the disband and the lord rebels.
I stronly surgest you look at mercy the mads guide.
@@generalharness8266 and? Why would I waste lords like that?
I can just do the cheese where they don't rebel at all when you disband them at sea
You are right about the Dwarfs, and it might be getting tiring, but by now I believe you are going IN THE COVER OF THE BLOODY BOOK
He got his own bloody book
loving these. they are not typical legend content, but i dont think this is a bad thing. its a little bit of variety which helps spice things up, its relatively quick and easy to produce content for legend, and its arguably extremely useful information from someone who knows quite a lot about playing on legendary difficulty.
Don't worry Legend, as someone who really enjoys playing as the dwarves I know its not your name that needs to go in the book, Its CA's. There is so much that the dawi could use in the game that is just never given to them. I'd like being able to take units of miners from the army and "store" them at the start of a battle, then be able to deploy them similar to menace below, these "spawned" miners would have to come from the army's roster so you aren't getting an extra unit, but they also wouldn't decay, would be great for sieges and taking out artillery, Also the Dawi artifacts should be a faction wide thing, theres no reason only one of the clans would care about artifacts of the ancestors. the list goes on and on, From Large machines, to a bigger selection of Lords to choose from, CA basically ignored almost till the 3 game had come out. so yeah Thats the Real Grudge.
Hopefully alongside or after Chaos Dwarfs the Dwarfs can finally get some new units + another rework.
@@reeceshugrue6167 Chaos, Dwarves and Norsca seem to be the big ones. Maaaaybe a buff to the lizards, too, but they've got dinosaurs so eh.
@@alexscholz3438 lizards are still way more playable then the others when it comes to long-term.
They really should have pushed the oathgold WAY more. Like if you're taking in oath gold you should be able to use it to speed build provinces and armies, recruit better heroes, etc. I like the rune crafting, but I also think putting a crafting cap on them is really blah. That, and the crafted gear needs a rework, most of the items are really weak and Dwarf gear should be objectively better than the stuff you get from drops. That's a big part of their thing. That and Runesmiths should have WAY better antimagic.
@@zudra2636 agreed, honestly most of the crafted gear is just semi useless, like any item that give more leader ship is nearly a waste for Dwarves, it should be mostly melee defense and ward save or physical or magical resist.
i love when you do tier lists because you put the work to explain why you made your choices, and instead of just saying this is "a" because its strong, you rank them by their use, and abilities through out the game.
Eataine should be S tier. They have the easiest and best starting location, they can confederate faster with with +20 diplomacy relations, and Recruitment duration of 1 turn for Sisters of Avelorn is a massive advantage.
Avelorn also has Treemen and easier access (T3 +minor settlements) to Sisters. Plus Alarielle is pretty op, too. Legend did make a good distinction imo between the 3 tiers of High Elf factions. They're pretty much still a tier above than their place on the list though lol. Nagarythe and Eshin would probably deserve some Mythic tier rank.
@@Grivehn
Yes
Avelorn is pretty good. I think Eataine stronger because they can confederate faster than Avelorn. They are both stronger than Naggarond.
@@viduralakmina1 lol no way, malekith is a s.
I never recruit Tree Spirits as Avelorn because lack of buffs from generic lords, competition with Alarielle's other unique buffs and limited recruitment (unless I'm just playing High Elves wrong). But yes tier 3 Sisters is very good
As with most of your content, Legend, good work. I always appreciate getting the expert weighing in on things, and these tier lists make it pretty easy to visualize differences that are otherwise hard to articulate. I especially think you got the Lizardmen and Tomb Kings spot on, and the Dwarves, regardless of their popularity lol
There's only two things I have a quibble about - I think that Dreadfleet is not as strong as the other A-tier factions and probably should be B tier.
Like if you compare a Dreadfleet campaign and an Awakened campaign, they're fairly similar in terms of power, speed, and economy.
Noctilus boosts their best units, and Harkon boosts armies in general - I think Noctilus still gets an edge bc the campaign movement boost can be significant but you can't rely on it.
When I look at say, Itza, Cult of Sotek, or the modern Beastmen, I feel like most of the A tier are a cut above any of the Vampire Coast.
My second thing isn't related to the rankings at all - I've played a Norsca on normal recently, and they're not a major powerhouse anymore - they can still be strong, but the Norsca campaign even on normal isn't very strong and can be an absolute pain to really make progress.
Mind, still doable, just if any faction is the equivalent of hitting your head against a wall, right now it's Norsca.
:Skaven always get the best of gifts from CA"
How true, they really should have balanced those better.
Why? Why not have fun things?
@@jtowensbyiii6018 Because the fun things are so heavily concentrated in one race for the skaven compared to alot of the other races, fun things are great but they are much less great when one faction gets so heavily favored content wise, skaven has gotten more fun mechanics than anyone else and would you believe it that isnt too much fun for non skaven players, as an example skaven gets nukes vampire coast gets the old shitty empire office system that was changed for a reason.
No one is against fun things but they should be equally spread out which they were most definitely not for tww2
@@BattIeFrog I recomend you open a book, they're simply making factions from the old world, and they get better at it over time, it's no conspiracy lmao
@@jtowensbyiii6018 Have i said there was a conspiracy? I said that skaven has gotten the largest chunk of interesting content despite the fact that many of the other races and factions could have recieved equal treatment, yet again as with the vampire coast it is a unique faction it did not really exist properly before CA and CA had an enourmous amount of freedom with them yet what they have are just watered down mechanics of other factions while the skaven get DLC upon DLC of unique and interesting content, doesnt have to be a bias or conspiracy but that does not mean it is excusable.
As you said "why not have fun things" except it should be "why not have fun things for everyone" instead of concentrating it within one race in the way it has been done.
Now this really is value added content. Kind of answers all those continual livestream questions. He should bookmark this in an FAQ section of his livestream descriptions...
25:55 Oh I remember my Khalida campaign. I had to ally with random Beastmen armies to deal with the Last Defenders because my economy and infrastructure just didn't allow for anything that would crunch through the lizards. After I had conquered the Southlands, the Dawi got angry at something or other and forced me to spend the rest of the campaign with most of my armies tied down defending my Badlands settlements and chasing after underwaying Dwarf bastards.
One of the few campaigns I left a save on turn 1 for quick restarts. If you want a good campaign you need to get the start perfect. It took me a few tries before I was satisfied
AbsolUTELY love these tier lists! Gives me a good idea of a good feel for the game! Thanks for you continued contributions towards the Total War series!
Keep it up legend. Amazing tier lists. Looking forward to it everyday, always hoping a new one will come out!
I feel like you definitely underrated Chaos and at least the Von Carsteins (if not all of the VC).
Chaos has honestly been one of the easiest and most fun campaigns I've played. It's pretty simple: 1. Rampage through Norscan territory to awaken as many tribes as you can. 2. Head over to Ulthuan to get SoK and ally with the Dark Elves. 3. Rush Shaggoths. 4. Ally with EVERYONE that you don't have to eliminate to win. Literally anyone that asks you for an alliance. Your allies will (eventually) take care of your ruin dwellers problem. Crush the high elves before heading back to the old world to win your campaign, and your Druchi allies will make it so easy for you.
For the Counts, I think you underestimate how many people use skeleton spam by now. For the Von Carsteins, don't underestimate the power of starting off with two heroes instead of the 0 or 1 most factions get, and how easy it is to recruit and increase capacity for vampire heroes. I would argue that this alone makes the Von Carsteins by far the strongest old world faction, even on par with Carcasonne using exploits.
His playstyle heavily effects his ratings as well. Chaos is winnable, but it's neither fun nor efficient, especially at the difficulties he plays at. Not only that but he is a heavy ranged focus player and Chaos has very limited and weak (In campaign) ranged units (they're multiplayer gods though). It's not that there are strategies, it's just that in on itself it's quite low.
Same with counts. He's a heavily ranged focused player, and the vampire counts have zero ranged.
me:
has about 1500 hours in Warhammer II and all the achievements
also me:
yeah, let's spend 50 minutes on watching the stuff I know xD
An idea Legend, repeat these tier lists on normal difficulty if the differences are vast enough to warrant it. There's a lot more people playing on lower difficulties than on legendary, so that content will likely appeal to your audience.
I don’t think tier is affected by difficulty that much (unless you’re doing something like save scumming for dark elf names of power). It just makes the game easier. What you might be asking for is a tier list based on how easy a faction is to play/get through the early game? For example mortal empires Tor Yvresse is S tier, but a newer player would have some trouble getting used to using 2 armies from turn 1 (or might not know to abandon one of the start locations until they’re more experienced with high elves)
@@ethanomihombre the battle difficulty on lower completely changes the game for melee units, an example is greenskins on legendary all their top tier are trash so they struggle in the late game but without the ai cheats to battle, something like balance builds and rush builds are very viable, especially rush builds but i think there shouldnt be a tier list on the lower difficulties, it just makes some of the low tier races go up a part like dwarfs and with the fixes to cav, cav will perform as intended.
@@vikingbanana2404 Melee infantry is still terrible relative to ranged on lower difficulties imo, it's just not as bad. What I was trying to say is that even on lower difficulties in my opinion the relative strength of factions still stays mostly identical. Even if lower tier factions become easier, so do the higher tier ones. Greenskins might be an exception to this (I rarely play them), or I might just be wrong.
Vote for normal Heroes tier list next. May be category by tanking, magic, range, support or as you see fit.
Really curious that which hero can deal with each others.
Oh nice! You did this based on strength, I uploaded my rating of the legendary/VH campaigns based on fun just a couple of days ago. Definitely some correlation here between us (nakai tier at the bottom, haha!!).
Tier lists make my autisms feel really good. Thank you Legend
Most relatable comment ever
I wanted to thank you so much.. i am a new player to total war in general (just really never played it before), and these tier lists really explain everything i need to know so i am not completely lost... so thank you! :)
Coincidentally... i started playing yesterday XD
@@tetika8098 Do kepe in mind this is for the HARDEST difficulty in the game. And like Legend said Norsca, the D tier race is S tier on normal difficulty.
Legend: puts dwarfs at c tier
Me: THATS GOING IN THE BOOK.
Hi! I am not a very experienced player, so thank you for the effort and info you put into this video! There is one point on which i would disagree - the Warriors of Chaos rating. It is not easy, but without only a fair amount of cheese the Old World can be just obliterated and then ten main threat are High Elves (duh) and the Black Arks with their major ports attacks. Anything else can be dealt with fairly minor (late-game wise) patrol forces or economy raiding. While skaven engagements will be the most pain in the ass due to artillery, anything else can be balanced, but there is no way of winning late game multi-army fights with a single lord + troops, you need reinforcement with additional artillery. The ruin dwelling can actually be a good source of income if controlled and strictly localized, which is hard. So, IMHO, i'd put them at High C rank. Again, thanks for the work, there was a lot of useful info!
'Being able to pull monsters out of your arse is pretty strong.'
~ LegendofTotalWar 2k21
New Bad Dragon sponsorship incoming?
Super excited to look back on this in a few months post the launch of 3. It'll be interesting to see how each of the races/factions have potentially shifted and where the new ones settle in.
Great video, as a guy who recently got into this game it makes me sad that my absolute favorite race in warhammer, chaos warriors, is hot garbage, but at least playing them makes everything else feel like easy mode!…
Nice breakdown, I cannot get enough of these. Kept things nice and simple and kept the points relevant.
Whenever I confed Louen Leoncoure he always has Questing vow units and Grail vow units free but not Knights vow ones for some reason - so Hippogryph Knights are free but Pegasus Knights are not. Curious when CA will fix that.
P.S. As Warriors of Chaos just find some friend to dwell raized settlements (like Moulder for example). Pretty fun play then
If you confedrate him really late, he gives free upkeep for all knights. Which is so insane, basically free doomstack. Hope they never fix this lol.
@@happydeathfish2166 Well, having free Hippogryph Knights is good enough for me:)
nothing beats a warrior of chaos army with 4 hellcannons 4 chaos knights, 4 chaos warrior, 4 chaos halberds and depending on how many heroes the army has 2 to 3 shaggoths.
It depends on the level your vows are for the Green knight, highest vow is all knights free and then down from there.
I really enjoy these tier lists and the knowledge you pass along from your previous conquests.
Cheers.
Hey, great tierlist again! I think the Heralds of Ariel are a S tier faction tho! (many reasons)
The faction traits, while buffing hawk riders, also give 10% extra range for all armies, amazing for a missile based faction. The special attack for hawk riders boosts garrisons by a lot indeed. The start is relatively easy, Khatep can be farmed for xp for a one or two turns, Alith Anar won't attack you thanks to sharing the same enemy, so he can be a trade buddy even on legendary. With the weapon from the forge that reduces army upkeep, it's possible to get a second army fairly soon. Later on WE don't need that much armies since they have a very versatile 'doomstack' roster: treemen, waywatcher), and the one with bladesingers, all of them roll over anything as long as you're the attacker. Thanks to the +10% extra range and potentially a lord with Talon of Kurnous, waywatchers still work well with this faction.
While their armies don't have the stalk stance, they can still ambush with 10% movement left.
As for defending, WE have a great global recruitment capacity for emergencies, however I can't remember if they can recruit in one turn or two deepwood scouts (I think it's 1 but it's probably 2). During the campaign, the worldroots are available quite often up until long campaign victory as you do rituals over rituals.
Even though WE economy sucks, they still get a decent amount of money with sacks, post-battle loot, and Naestra's grace (3 turns with a +5% physical resistance too!), enough to have an other army while having a minor deficit. As for the other bonus, Arahan's wrath (+5% missile damage, +4 leadership, 3 turns) it's fairly decent too.
One of Daith's rituals make them immune to all attritions for 5 turns, useful to beat Morathi, cross seas and against Norsca.
As for controlling territories, stacking the public order/untainted in adjacent provinces building in every outpost make it so easy to control any territory (like +60 untainted in one province). Can't remember if WE have unhospitable territories or not.
Last but not least, WE are probably the strongest magic users thanks to their gigantic pool of winds available to them so early. Knowledgeable spellweavers (spellsinger lords) are very easy to get too.
So definitely S tier for me, I've missed a few more pros like high replenishment and diplomacy bonuses which are more tied to the WE mechanics.
@Legendoftotalwar Thanks for all the effort you put into educating us potatos on a game that can be quite overwhelming at times. Been watching your Warhammer videos for quite a while now and my gameplay has definitely improved with your advice. Thanks, keep up the great work and cheers from the states!
Never clicked so fast in my life
noooo
Hell yeah
8 views by the time I click
Thank you for making this. I totally caught up with some Total War with my new rig and the sales. Now I can better see what's good, I've been playing this game trying to find my favorite faction play style. So hard.
I'm shocked you didn't make a special E tier and just no explanation throgg goes here
while that would be funny, it wouldn't quite match the educational purpose of these videos. it suffices just fine putting him in the bottom rank without making a rank explicity for him
@@syrusalder7795 right but legend HATES throgg and has carved out special exceptions to make fun of him (like the worst unit in each faction lists giant for everyone who has them except norsca because throgg
Hero tierlist would be amazing. It would include all the heroes in the game, unique one included/excluded depends on what you want, and you rank them from S to D
Oh boy here we frickin GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Really appreciate the break down. Most of your rankings reflect my experience. Hope to see more like this!
One of these days he'll say
"Hey guys Teirlist of Total War here"
Love these tier lists.
There should be an extra bonus for order factions as at the moment almost every campaign I played as long as you survive until chaos invasion makes them all unite and steamroll the rest of the map. Which usually ends with you getting an long campaign victory no matter how strong within the order you have been.
Dwarfs in C?? One of my fave races, so strong defensively and incredible artillery with Flame Cannons and Organ Guns.
I don't think he's grading them based off their unit roster, but instead off of their starting position, first enemies, and tools they have to expand
Also on legendary difficulty.
Sartosa goes in C
*begins loading blunderbuss*
Mentions that Aranessa doesn't really fit with Vampire Coast
*stops*
And yes, Legend's name is front and center in most holds' Dammaz Kron. Thorgrim's even considering a separate volume just for him.
I find your lack of Chaos disturbing.
One of the best content channels on youtube man. Thanks for all the amazing information. Hope to see you soon with the streams again.
Migrating with Grom to Imrik's postion I'd really good and fun, lot of different factions, lot of ingredients
Oxyotl should be A tier. If you are willing to expand slowly, the faction gives:
- Full vision of everything
- Free/almost free armies thanks to overlapping -upkeep bonuses along with stupid strong amounts of cash from post battle loot.
- Automatic ambushes that can completely hamstring an AI in their own territory and also give constant loot influx from taking out random lone lords every turn for ~5000 cash.
On top of this the teleportation ability means you can relocate from the crappy starting position to almost anywhere on the map very easily. In my campaign I took teleported to Queek immediately and had a nice cozy hugbox with the tomb kings to the west and Kroq Gar.
Imma have to call bull on rictus being a b tier faction. It is so painful playing as trech, at least kroq gar is powerful
All scaven have food mechanic that makes them OP. Getting lvl 3 settlements at turn 1-2 = they get to pull out their late game units early.
getting plague claw catapult at turn 7 = strongest army in the game for the next 20-30 turns.
Nothing can stop you except a rite of primeval glory.
Kroq gar cannot even hold a candle to that.
i love your tier lists, they always give me nice ideas on things i can try out. Thank you legend.
Norsca lovers are gonna be so hurt
Dwarfs probably too
@@Witch_King Dwarfs deserve it
return to monke
With how much everyone is loving the beastmen update, I’m thinking we can expect some good reworks for chaos and norsca at some point. I’m thinking they could even just rip heard stones off completely and repaint them as chaos gates if nothing else.
Chaos Gates that have patrols similar to Oxy's faction mechanic
I love to play dwarfes, but I agree that they are in need of a rework of some kind again
Not a overhaul or something like that but in some ways there is need of a change
Its like there is a factionswide campaign mechanic is missing where its about growth for earlygame or kind of like special kind of underway for the late game perhaps
But still my favorite race to play
But you dont land in my Book of Grudges just for saying that, so dont worry about me :)
Perhaps there is a possibility that there will come a rework for the dwarfs somewhere in warhammer 3 in addition to perhaps another legendary Lord
Something regarding the chaosdwarfs would be ideal, but we will see
Used Instant Gaming quite a lot since i was introduced to it by Legend. Never had a problem with it and often find that the prices batch or more often better all the other sites that i check before any purchase. Highly recommended, especially for Euro market.
i think you did vampire counts dirty. because of their very rich economy, bonuses to public order, big replenishment bonuses they can expand much faster than most factions in A tier. you also mentioned you dont count skelespamming( even though its not a glitch, just most effective strategy) but for the orcs you said their strenght is crapstacking and vampires do that much more effectively
I play 10 vortex campaigns for each mortal empires campaign, so this was interesting to see how certain factions are weaker or stronger for mortal empires.
In regards to the Spirit of the Jungle! You can ask your vassal almost every second turn for money up to 10k. That really helps your economy. Then you also have the rite where later on can easily spam for 50% more income from the vassal.
I think you are underrating Wood Elf factions, they are very easy to play on legendary campaign and very hard battle difficulty. The ability to port between the 8 forests around the map, and the relative ease with which you can confederate or capture these forests provides a platform from which it is so easy to dominate the world map quick. My last Wood Elves campaign I'm obtaining strength rank 1 within first 20 turns and easily maintaining this to the point I can play 'this is total war' with consummate ease.
Very small side note on the high elves: not only do they have acces to stronk factions leaders, can recruit stronk units, they can maintain a large number of armies ( 20+ entrepenuers in Lothern seems legit) and have acces to good faction mechanics ( or excelent mechanics with Eltahrion and Alith Anar), but they also have acces to the largest number of lores of magic ( so stronk, especialy if you like to have a healer in your armies).
Here’s an interesting ideea: Play as Eltharion and send a hero to find Imrik asap, since he will be pretty easy to confederate and stick him with “the sentinel” at level 15.
Good stuff, keep 'em coming.
I'd love to see tier lists for lord/hero types by faction to accompany the roster tier lists.
You have a faction POWER ranking, but I'd like to see a fun ranking tier list. For example, Tyrion is certainly stronger than Teclis, but I've always thought Teclis was much more entertaining. A fun tier list would perhaps be eye opening for choosing the next campaign to play.
Fun is too subjective. I agree with 99% of the placement of this list for the most part with exception of how strong Grombrindal is as a faction lead but fun means different things to different people.
Handy video. Got me thinking more about faction mechanics and a little less on raw rosters for comparing factions. If you're doing more unit tier lists, I'd love to see Chaos and Norsca. It'd be neat to see what you think the good bits are in the worse races.
Wow this is going to be spicy.
Would love a race tier list.
Maybe a list of top fun faction to play would be cool.
Thank you for making this video Legend!
On the note of Aranessa at 25:00, that's because she isn't a Vampire Coast lord. Well, ok she is, but not really. Ironically she's kind of a Norscan, a mutant mermaid who they chucked into the sea at birth for deformity (hence why she hates them) before she later cut off her tail, strapped some pegs to herself, and joined up with pirates. In game she even calls a "Vampire Coast" a stupid idea, only working with the undead cause she thinks the sea god wants her to. Add to that the fact that Cylostra was specifically made for this game, and you can tell they didn't have too much to work with regarding the VCs in the leader department.
I abasolutely LOVE the Dwarfs but I have to agree with everything you've said. The only thing they beat nearby factions out on is staying power and armor. Get jumped by 8000 Skaven? Form a circle and carve them down until you can strategically retreat.
Gotta disagree with Dwarf placement.
I really like how they get the mechanicle bonus of being shorter. Especially as a lover of the handguns! I mean there are ways to not just shoot from behind melee, but it is nice that Dwarfs can due to hight xD
Best thing about Durthu's faction is that he has a 25% upkeep reduction in owned territory for all his armies... I think. He has at the very least. So you can move around and just conquer territory on your way to objectives and keep a low upkeep for his armies. It was added in the patch after the sisters/throt release.
I'm very sad about Nakai. There's one, ONE change they could make to his campaign to fix SO much about him, and that would be making it possible to initiate any kind of diplomacy (INCLUDING WAR) with his vassal faction aside from trade agreements. Want Military Access even, make it go through Nakai.
I liked a very hard Morathi campaign because you can train up Morathi really easy. Yes you get constantly pressured for like 50 turns, but this gives you the money to get 2 strong armies (and the ability to get a lot of slaves early) really early, and once you get momentum you can crush the entirety of ulthuan.
Honestly these tier lists are pretty dope. Keep up the good work Legend.
Definitely my favorite content creator right now, and these tier lists are awesome.