Is Waterford Distillery destined for greatness? The Whisky Rant Podcast Ep 30
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- Опубликовано: 15 май 2022
- We try 4 new releases from one of the more interesting whiskey distilleries, Waterford. Headed by the ex-CEO of Bruichladdich, is Waterford the next big thing? The Whisky Rant Podcast Ep 30.
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![RARE WHISK[E]Y FRIDAY! || Waterford Edition - July 30th, 2021](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U-GwYSFsyus/mqdefault.jpg)
VDN stands for "Vin Doux Naturel" which is naturally sweet, fortified French wine.
Waterford whiskies across the board use the same cask makeup: First Fill Ex-Bourbon, Virgin American Oak, French Oak, ex Vin Doux Naturel.
Thanks
Great timing guys. They just started doing tours last week and I went on the tour today😀Cheers
I bought my first Canadian rye whiskey recently and it was great for the money. It was lot 40 and I really like a good 100 per cent rye and it was £33
Waterford is crazy expensive locally. $100 USD for 3 year is tough. Would pull the trigger if it was $60-$70 USD like in Canada
They are quoting Alberta prices which are the lowest in Canada because the taxes are lower. People often buy online from Alberta, and in that case you generally have to order multiple bottles to make the shipping worth it. One province over in BC, where I am, they are around $93-107 USD a bottle, not including sales tax
I had a bottle of English whisky which was 4 years old and was good and well priced at about £40
At the Revolution bar in Waterford was able to have drams of two of the Cuvee's, Primavera and Hearth. Have a sample of original Cuvee and Hookhead 1.1 from the distillery tour that I will have soon.
Hoping I can have a similar experience soon.
I and many other whisky nerds would love to see a big blue box full of 200ml bottles of different farms only from 1st fill bourbon casks and would be willing to pay a premium for it. The current farm bottles are a mix of 1st fill bourbon, virgin oak (us), fendumond, and French oak red wine casks. I can understand they want to deliver full flavor from young spirit but I find the flavors muddled because of so many different cask types. On the tour when the woman lifted the lid of the spirit safe with the still running the fruit flavors of spirit were amazing ! Wish I could have tasted it.
I took part in a virtual tasting a year or two ago with their master distiller through the Kensington Wine Market over in Calgary (don’t ask how I got the samples to Montreal). I bought the Gaia 1.1; I loved it. I also just picked up something else by them, but the value is low on these. They need to be $80. Where I bought in AB, we’re talking like $101, and now that they’re finally here in Québec, the SAQ has them for like $120.
Love these guys.
Rob:
Sadly, I bought a bottle of the RathClogh Farm expression and I have had 3 others at a tasting and all of them had a varnish note on the nose and the palate. With my bottle it got stronger as I went through the bottle, even using it as a mixer. I got the same varnish note on some NAS craft Bourbons so I chalk it up to not enough time in the barrel to take away the notes of the still.
IMO, it needs more time in the barrel. I got more barley character from POWERS 3 Swallows. I want WATERFORD to express the barley character; but I think the spirit needs more time in the barrel to get rid of the still effects. I have been exploring whiskey since 2014. As you know I focus on as many notes as I can get and with WATERFORD the varnish note steps on and overshadows everything.
SLÁINTE
Mike
That sucks.
Good review guys
Cheers
I got the Irishman CS 17 sherry cask today for $129.99 and Two Stacks CS for $43.99 and no tax . Pretty hard to pass up at those prices
This absolutely tastes like Scotch whisky made in Ireland. But I love it. I can't wait to see how it matures - it's drinkable, complex, and interesting even at 4.
"Traditional" Irish single malt, FWIW, does taste Irish to me. I don't think that character is down to the unmalted barley you find in Single Pot Still whiskey, so I'm really not sure what's going on here. I'd be interested to know.
Have you tasted Two Brewers? I find similar notes to Irish whisky.
Alberta will win that CND barley contest. Enter that code on back into their website to see everything. Waterford also makes a Organic whisky seperate from Biodynamic (organic too). The Biodynamic take the farming process to a whole other level.
To assess the terrior and be confident that is what is causing the effect, not the barrel or warehouse location, you would need a sample of the new make before it went into the barrel. For your distillery idea, do everything as close as you can but with every 750 mL bottle, release a 50 mL of the new make from that run. Then, you could tell.
That's a really cool idea - include the new make with the aged bottle.
They hosted an external experiment that looked at the new make. There was a few different groups, including Oregon University. The experiment outline is on their website
@@josephocallaghan4645 Awesome, I will check it out. Thanks!
These sound cool. But I can get farm focused expressions with Bruchladdie Islay Barley, Bere Barley, Scottish, ect for half the price
Difference with the cuvee is it is not a single farm but a blend of all farms.
I got the Gaia and it’s good.
i think a very simple example about barley terror is octomore .1 and .3 series. u both mentioned in previous clips saying that u prefer .3 over .1, I guess that's the answer to ur question here.
While I respect Waterford for promoting traceability, provenance and organic farming in whisky, these have been previously executed (often better) by a wide range of Agave and Grape based distilleries. Del Maguey for example that have been producing single village Mezcal using wild ingredients, indigenous communities and ancient processes for decades. The French and Italians have been doing similar things for centuries.
Whisky however is different. I echo Ralfy that quality whisky is not made in stillhouses but instead warehouses inside quality casks. This is especially true with Scotch whisky that relies almost exclusively in the use of casks that previously held other spirits and fortified wines.
P.S. I would challenge Jeremy that Agave and Grape based spirits often produce a more complex new make than Barley.
yes at some destilleries of cognac, armagnac or grappa as example, you often know what grapes are used, from where, what farm was producing the grapes, whats the soil like, sand, clay, ironheavy etc. i guess we will see where it is going, but you defenitely need quality casks still, which are not too influencial. But then again, does it really make a difference to spirit driffen distilleries like glencadam, and can they execute it on a similar level wihtout pumping the price too hard
Whisky is only made in casks in warehouses because it needs to be for at least 3 years to be called whisky. It's not the same as saying the process of making the spirit is irrelevant.
Both of the following statements cannot be true simultaneously
1. Quality whisky is not made in stillhouses but instead warehouses inside quality casks
2. The whisky was made at this distillery for blending purposes so it wasn't created with the care required to become a great single malt
I love and respect Ralfy immensely but he has a habit of making these kind of objective statements that are actually contradictory. Why love Bladnoch and hate Strathmill? Why does the distillery matter if the casks are the most important thing? Why did they panic at Clynelish when a change they made to their process lost the signature waxiness? Why did Dalwhinnie reinstall their worm tubs when they realised they had lost some distillery character after changing to a condenser that was easier to run? Why does Glengoyne celebrate having such a slow distillation? Why does Glenmorangie talk up their tallest stills in Scotland?
Blanket statements aren't that useful in a discussion about such a complex process in which different choices and equipment during distillation can have differing effects on the spirit that comes out.
Regarding barley: if you want to make great whisky, you can do that with any old barley. Waterford don't need to do what they're doing if all they wanted was to create great whisky. But what they're making is different; and in a market currently saturated with similar products, I for one will celebrate their existence.
@@GTJWilding why are they contradictory, you can taste the distillery signature in alot of whiskies. The malting, distilling, drying etc makes a difference in the whisky, a significant. But then you need qulity casks to refine the whisky and give it its significant taste, mostly without destroying the distillers character. The difference in different barley can be interesting, but then id rather try to enhance this by having a similar to Glencadam style of whisky making. 3rd or more refill casks which are not sour or so, a refined destillation where you try to enhance the malts own character. Time will show if they can deliver such a character, or not.
@@DayKlight contradictory because the casks statement completely undermines the importance of the spirit making process. People make too much of the statement that whisky is made in casks in warehouses when all it means is that without the casks and warehouse maturation, the spirit cannot become whisky. I'm not sure I have explained my position in an adequate way as I think you misunderstood my points.
We're actually on the same wavelength I think. I wouldn't want Glencadam to be given too active a cask interaction, much like I wouldn't want Clynelish or Daftmill to be put into active casks. So what is a "good cask" exactly? A good cask can be many different types of cask dependent upon the character of the spirit produced at the distillery. Some people I know think the best casks are always first fill casks and I think that came from Ralfy's comments about the importance of cask policy.
If whisky isn't made in the stillhouse and the casks are the only important factor, why is the distillate produced at some distilleries prized so much higher than others? That's the contradiction.
@@GTJWilding then i might misunderstood you :D i guess the most important thing is that the spirit is made with care and intention to make a quality spirit, and not as a cashgrab ^^
Whatsup guys,
I'm unfamiliar with Waterford and was curious if you guys have tried any other bottles in the meantime besides the 4 from this video.
And which ones would you guys recommend? Cheers
It’s been a while since I’ve had one. Let me get back to you.
@@WhiskyInThe6 Much appreciated!
La Cuvée is delicious ✌️
I do like the idea of emphasizing terroir, and I think they are doing a lot of things right in terms of how they produce whisky, but a lot of these whisky’s are just too young - and that would be ok if they were reasonably priced - but are priced higher than some far older, far superior product.
I’ve heard the argument that it’s an “investment”, and that customers need to “support” them until their stocks are aged long enough, but that’s bullshit. I’m not an investor or stakeholder, I’m a whisky drinker and, like many whisky drinkers, I’m already paying out more and more for less. What Waterford is doing is nothing short of a pisstake I mean 3-4 year old whisky for like $100+? Absurd. Waterford promised they wouldn’t realize product until it was matured long enough for it to be “ready”, I don’t think they have done that. If the prices are like this now they are only going to get higher and higher, and with such a huge range of choice out there, I just don’t feel compelled to give Waterford any of my time or money.
Fair enough. I think time will tell.
Recently I tasted a few, and while the quality of the spirit is great it is too young.
I liked their initial terroir marketing but then their story changed stating that the Cuvee was the goal after all.
So: get back to me when the stuff is at least 8 years old and then I'd like to try different farms with the least cask influence possible, preferable first fill bourbon casks only.
The Cuvee was and is not the goal, i think you misheard/misunderstood. The cuvee is literally an annual release that will be a blend of all that years single farm releases, making it as close to a "core range" release as they can produce. They are wholly focused on the terroir being proven by their single farm bottlings, but its nice to have a "core" bottling but even that will change year on year
Is this the Beaujolais Nouveau of whisky?
Not sure what that is
USFF = United States First Fill. i.e. Bourbon barrels
the diversity of human craftsmanship somehow somewhat is not quantifiable, y don't just leave the science behind sometimes and enjoy the most out of it. Cheers guys~
Almost the complete package. Just missing an age statement.
and the cask maturation....
the age statement down to the very day is accompanied with every bottle....
Their use of wine cask maturation, and just crazy levels really makes judging the rest impossible. I feel their whole farm grain thing weird given that nothing they do is the same or even similar cask maturation. End of day, I think this might be the first distillery I hope fails ever. I just can't get behind these guys.
Harsh bro. Lol.
@@WhiskyInThe6 I edited it a bit hopefully before you saw that :) but yeah, I hate these guys and I mean that legit.
@@topshelfdustin3060 why the hate? Too much marketing?
@@steveno7058 well i generally didn't enjoy the whisky, but their whole terroir marketing thing doesn't make sense if they're using complex wine maturation. I've heard the new make's are very different which doubles down on why I just can't stand them. All that marketing, all that hype to then us 100 different wine casks...
@@topshelfdustin3060 that makes sense. I think they have to use all types of barrels because the spirit by itself wouldn’t be special by itself after 3 years. I don’t buy the hype either. I’d rather just get Bruchladdie Islay Barley for half the price
Very expensive and tastes very young. Not my cup of tea. I’m from the UK, and you can find them half the rrp on auctions.
Interesting. I think they continue to improve.
@@WhiskyInThe6 yeah I do agree they will be very very good whisky in the future. Just now I can’t see justifying their prices. Fun facts that I learned from a tasting I did some months ago with Mark Reynier. He said that as the spirit matures the price will stay the same and you maybe now pay a lot for a young whisky but the time will come that it will be value for money. Also, he never plans to make a single cask bottling, the smallest batch you will see from Waterford will be the micro cuvée. He takes the wine industry approach which is blending vintages to craft something that tastes unique and he thinks single cask can be all over the place.
screw caps are best.
To echo other comments here, this whiskey makes no sense. "Terrior focused" with exotic wine cask finishs? And no I haven't tried any, $100 US can get you stellar whisky and this is offensive to see on the shelf for that price. I understand the romance of individual farms, but now you have this sea of odd releases which when compared to themselves, have no apparant value. Also, why are they trying to make scotch in Ireland? Seems disingenuous. If Ireland has the best barley, then make a traditional Irish whiskey, it's a sector that is clearly growing. These guys are selling the sizzle not the steak.
It's an over-hyped money grab.
I don’t think that’s true. I do think they still have to prove themselves. Cheers.
make scotch in Ireland??? what??? its irish barley, distilled, matured and bottled in ireland which makes it irish whiskey. If you mean why are they not making single pot still style.....why would they. Its still irish whiskey, and in fact there is way more single malt irish whiskey than there is single pot still....as for terroir with exotic casking, every release uses the same cask types in the same proportions using the same system, so the only difference there is, comes from where the barley is grown.
terroir in whiskey is complete , utter BS
🤷🏻♂️
I would have thought the same, but when you taste the Waterford new make, it isn't.
Australians used to say that about wine because they hated competing against the darned French and their AOC wines with delineated regions. But the tide has turned and now Australian wine critics talk about terroir and regional differences within Australia. For my own part I have come to respect good wine producers who make the best out of what they have year after year and the same applies to whisky. I don't worry about terroir but what the final product tastes like.
Oh dear, you guys lost me in the discussion about scoring. A half point difference in a 100 point scale? Give me a break, that is incredibly pretentious. By the way, this is what happens when English Canadians cannot pronounce the simplest of French words. Doux literally means sweet.
Oh, and the "dumb American" award goes to "Are there that many farms in Ireland?"
PS: Please accept my apologies for using the stereotype and no disrespect to the very clever Americans of which there are quite a few but unfortunately not enough.
I think many would agree we are definitely pretentious.
@@WhiskyInThe6 To some degree almost all whisky (or wine) geeks are pretentious. Since I've come to ignore point scores in the world of wine (my first love) naturally a half point tries my patience even more, but then again it is my problem not yours. Cheers.