I try to give good, reasoned feedback. I cannot this week. The Gweneth Paltrow joke made me spill my drink i was laughing, so my wife needed to know what was up, and now you have another fan. She's still learning 5th edition and she smacked my arm. 'Why can't you explain your world and villain building like this'. BA vs PhD, my dear. I am but the learner, he is the master. Great video, superb advice, and some really top notch jokes and references her. :)
I lost it at, "It's a green whiteboard, so it's a green... it's like a green onion." Glad that with all the masterful education you provide, you're still taking time to be a massive dork, Professor. Much respect!
The main "antagonist" from my last game was such a nice and honorable man (playing L5R), the players spent half an hour trying to convince him to join their side instead of fighting, and even then they tried their best not to kill him simply because they felt he didnt deserve it. In the end his inevitable demise was a tragic sight to them all. Because your goals diverge doesn't mean the other guy is a terrible person.
Oh man, the G, D and Q series. What a ride! That took us through most of high school to finish and had some of my most memorable moments of gaming. I went through four different characters before the end, my favorite one being Grishnakh (I was reading a lot of Tolkien then), a half-ogre which my DM allowed when it came out in Dragon magazine. There was a point in Vault of the Drow when our group had to flee from a drow hunting party and I picked the short straw to lead our pursuers away down another path. After a merry chase through caves and tunnels, 'Grish' (as the party called the character) was cornered at the edge of a chasm. Fully expecting to die (again), he took to high ground whereupon he began hurling his entire supply of javelins of lighting at the oncoming enemy. When those ran out he made his last stand, swinging his bastard sword of wounding all the while taunting the enemy with insults. He made good account of himself, but in the end Grish was overwhelmed. Since the DM allowed 'dying moves' for characters (another Dragon magazine supplemental rule), I had Grish embrace two of the drow engaged with him in melee in a bear hug before leaping to his death over the chasm. Good times.
I create a back story for some of my villains that tempt players into sympathizing with the villain. When they accidentally find themselves opposing the villain while on a quest or mission he pushes their buttons making it personal drawing them in to either join him or battle to the death. This can take dozens of sessions to accomplish carefully guiding them along the path to collision. The villain will actually befriend them at first while hiding his true intentions until they cross courses. I love making really good villains for my players to face. It makes for an epic game that can last through a long twisting turning epoch. Longest running game so far is 10 years. And it gets better every time we play.
Sometimes this can be very effective, and make for interesting antagonists for the party-but don't overlook characters like "the man in black who fled across the desert and the gunslinger who followed." Randal Flag had no illusions what he was--terrorizing people was just fun for him. (See Allie and Nort and the town of Tull in the Gunslinger) Rose the Hat from Dr. Sleep, or any number of villains who are evil, who know they are evil, and who have a great time being evil. For instance, Pennywise was always happy to be present and be himself in the moment. Demons, devils and other fiends from the lower planes are representative of evil for it's own sake, so big E existential evil, outside human control or comprehension. On a human level, Ramsey Bolton from Game of Thrones is well worth study--does he think he's a good guy or a good man. Not hardly. He enjoys creating terror. He enjoys ruling by fear. He enjoys twisting people under his heel into creatures like Reek. In the books, he's no gentler with Jeyne Poole. And then when he turns around and asks, "Reek, do you love me?" It's just chilling. There's no sympathizing with that--and yet for a villain Ramsey Bolton is a work of art, and Martin rightly keeps him behind that wall our Professor mentions.
I use the Crackdown approach. The mastermind has an organization with each henchmen is in control of a particular aspect. Eliminating the henchmen weakens the group and makes overall more likely to be overcome. For example, take out the arms dealer and now the rest have pistols and shotguns instead of assault and sniper rifles. *edited for clarity and spelling.
This sounds a bit like how Breath of the Wild did its approach to the BBEG: taking out strategic mini-bosses weakens the BBEG. You can take out 0-4 of these mini-bosses, with the rewards for them being insanely useful in both typical play and against the BBEG in particular.
One idea I had is a doomsday clock. Instead of measuring units in days, you simply have an abstract number on a chart, or a dial, or a tearaway wall calendar. Every time the PCs procrastinate or take too long to work something out, you reach across the table and lower the doomsday clock by one. It can be very powerful without tying you too much into specifics.
I love your videos. One aspect of villains I think you could drill into is the difference between a foil and a villain. Foils constantly undercut the heroes or prevent them from reaching their goals. They might be a rival, a law officer, the noble lady you describe, or a pious (holier than thou) priest, in opposition but not actively working against the party. Foils exist to be outsmarted and to create problems that the PCs can't resolve by force of arms. Villains exist to be vanquished, to allow the heroes to be, well, heroic.
This is one of your best videos yet, in my opinion, Professor. You helped me to remember things I had forgotten. I ran a campaign of the 007 RPG for almost a decade and the villains were utterly diabolical. The players hated them - and they loved them.
I LOVE how your villains aren't threats to the heroes directly- it's the sneaky snake like influence they have.... and how they can make life very hard for the players..... I love it!
Town = Gear Upgrades for many. Always good to quickly squash that with a, "It's unlikely this small town has any gear finer than what you already poses."
Honestly, I think this is why liches are such a classic villain in d&d. Their inability to die without their phylactery being destroyed is one of the most common walls like this that I've seen in any d&d game.
An excellent video once again. Your first point is something akin to what I've implemented for sometime - the 'villian' as protagonist. It is the BBG (evil is optional) who has a plan and who drives the story. The PCs can engage or not as they please, but they ignore the warning signs at their peril. I particularly like your idea of 'walls' and protagonists who are no match (on paper) for the PCs. An additional concept to throw into the mix is the anti-villain/anti-hero. Your anti-hero is someone who has high-minded (if misguided) goals and will use dastardly means to get there. The anti-villian would be the opposite, with strict codes on behaviour but is using them towards nefarious or selfish ends. Both could see themselves as a tragic or flawed hero and, if played correctly, be more 'heroic' than the PCs.
When I was younger, I played a card-based Marvel Superhero RPG, and the book had a set of rules about villain death and villain edge: Rule 1: If the villain dies, the body is never found. Without the body, there is no death, and the villain lives to trouble the heroes another day. Rule 2: If the villain dies, and a body is found, it is never the villain's body. It's a cloned corpse or a shapeshifter, and the villain lives to trouble the heroes another day. Rule 3: If the villain dies, and it is their body that is found, their mind is not there. They shift into another body, into a computer, or into the cosmos. After some superhuman reconstructive efforts, the villain lives to trouble the heroes another day. Rule 4: If the villain dies, body and mind, another person will take up the villain's mantle. Copycats, distressed relatives, family pets. The villain lives (in spirit) to trouble the heroes another day. Rule 5: If the villain dies in body and mind and nobody takes up the villain's mantle, they were not the main villain, and a worse villain will now trouble the heroes another day. Edge was a stat that all villains had, in a range of 1-4, and the info on this read something like "Magneto has a 4 Edge for a reason: he is brilliant, he is resourceful, he is powerful, and he has many, many underlings willing to fight to protect him and his mission." Good villains are about the only thing harder to kill than cockroaches, and that makes taking one down insanely cathartic.
Awesome video, you made some great points and had some killer references to drive those points home. I’ll definitely use this information when creating my NPCs in later campaigns. Well done
I have found that, in my local scene, the writers tend to be the better GMs. Shouldn’t really be a surprise, but I love the comparisons between, and contrasts with, other types of storytelling and GMing. Helps those of us who don’t have the luxury if writing full time!
I love the scenarios you make, it gives your game world life. This is probably one of the best channels I have ever found for new DMs like me. Thank you.
Yes my players do that! Thank the lord you mentioned it. They'll visit ever shop they can think of looking for better items. I've taken to sending them to the catfolk who've set up just outside of town to throw cursed items at them and see how they handle them because if they were spending so much time shopping, I might as well make it interesting. Will start setting time limits for quests and see if that helps.
The villain leaving a mocking letter is quite a good wall and can be left with some vicious act of villainy, or a trap to be spung. Barlow does this in Salem's Lot
If your players are asking every sword seller if they have a better sword, have everyone tell them yes. And also each has a different idea of what "better" means.
@@benvoliothefirst Or the merchant has 1 good sword (that he didn't even make), but refuses to sell it because he uses it as a bait-and-switch to sell his own crappier goods.
Or because they're good salesmen, they ALWAYS have a better sword. Oh this is the best sword? No no no, my friend this is the best sword! "Pulls out a regular ass sword that looks a lot like the sword the PC has but this one has a "real" gemstone in the pommel that DEFINITELY WON'T fall out in their first combat encounter.
Current villian is Viscount Maxamillian Mung who has recently become the King of the Kingdom of Kilkenny. He is in a civil war with the other nobles of the kingdom who have revolted because he contracted lycanthropy and now seems obsessed over finding an elf child who is prophesized to cause the downfall of his kingdom. I'm modeling him on MacBeth. The characters met him when he burned his rebelling nobles village (the peasants' village). The peasant poet flattered him as the king and was spared his wrath as his troops killed eveyone else they could find and burned the whole village of Oakdale to the ground. An nice start.
Not sure if it was intentional, but the way the whole "support the channel" part was cut off half a second earlier than you'd normally see is still hilarious to me
My group doesn't look for the better sword, they visit every blacksmith to see who is cheapest of them all. They are counts of a province yet they haggle like Uncle Scrooge, making everyone around look strangely, since, you know, nobles usually flaunt their fortune whenever they can. They always get comments like "You bear the Count Rings, sires, but with all due respect, you act like farmers looking for the cheapest whorehouse"
If my players did this, they would get nuked from orbit every time they spent more than two minutes in a shop. After the second time, they'd start counting the seconds.
In my campaign world one of the primary villains is "The Shadow Lord" players have been hearing about him for years but never seem to get any closer to him, he has fingers in politics across the realms and is a power for ruthless dispassionate law. One day one of the party's encountered a NASTY fighter that they found terrifying(he escaped), over time they learned that the fighter is the "SL's" general. Eventually they will get him 'cornered' but my intention was not until they are 10-12th level as a group.
In a TMNT adventure I designed, a wall I used a was to have the villain appear on a tequila bottle. The villain had his own line of tequila. I also had a villain communicate to the party through a crystal. He hired them to eliminate a nuisance. He didn’t realize that the PCs were there to defeat him. I’ve never called it Walls but I always use them!
Really great bad guys . I will use them and in return l give you one of mine. Captain Olaf Redsun. He operates a ferry / cargo ship that rides the rivers and coast ( not deep waters) , his first mate is Alora Thornheart , a beautiful redheaded pirate. Expert navigator swordsman and has a bandolier of 24 throwing knives. Anyone who travels with him , is drugged robbed and fed to the sharks or the river drowners. Thier gear and gold is divided up among the crew. As a merchant , he is always honest with his taxes so the town leadership and guilds will not prosecute him. He is all yours professor.
Sorry for being nitpicky, but while Bathory was a sadistic serial killer, she never bathed in blood. That was added to her tale later to make the story more gruesome. As if it needed that....other than that, I love every one of your videos. Even with a decade of GMing behind me, there is still a lot to learn.
I have a villain in my game who is a warforged that wants nothing more than to end suffering. His people were crated as war machines that 800 years ago gained sentience those outside of the factories had to run and hide.While the one in the factories were buried alive. That's where he lived for hundreds of year as they went mad ripping each other apart. So he plan wipeout all organic life and remove free will, other than his own. His "wall" as you put it is that he is able to jump from body to body that he has created. He's been fun.
I added a concept to my campaign that works really well for antagonists that wield political power and not physical power. There is a special will that can be purchased from very specific notarizers that is functionally a contingency resurrection spell should you be killed, the price is very high but anyone with enough gold can purchase one, so it is common practice for the wealthy and elite to have such a will. I do maintain that crossing over and back again takes a toll, so each time a character is resurrected, they are a little more insane pc or otherwise
So random questions here. A-What if your villain is not so much a mastermind but just a force that has a random chaotic goal. Example. A large more intelligent colony of ogres. They wish to expand and treat people and other things like food and what not. Killing the leader will slow that desire, but someone else will just rise to take over. How to do manage what I will call "group" villains like that. Also, for a second question. Say the heros enter a city where the villain already has what he wants. Soo, like a vampire lord that acts as the leader of a city and already has control. His desire to control the city has already occurred. Would his motivations then be to keep what he has, so thus be a more reactive force? Which then would not really have a time frame. As he would just react to incoming threats.
Edward DeAngelis Thanks for asking! I think every group has a leader-especially groups that seek to expand & conquer more territory. As far as villains who are already in charge-there still has to be something they want or a goal. Maybe the vampire wants to expand the borders of its undead empire or wants to find its true love, reincarnated as one of the PCs. Hope that helps!
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 It very much does. I think I might end up doing tiers of growth. So as in, there will be a goal for the villain. But the players don't lose if they don't reach it in time. He will just advance in power, making them need to take new routes and making him stronger in the end.
Great job as everytime professor :) Yes the motivation behind a villain, born in a background, make it easy(ier) to react to every event.... and the players always find a way the DM hasn't planed. Spending a little bit more time to this point will be a great invest.... The wall idea is great.... I have often the problem that the PC .... Make crazy things.... you know forgotten realms? Luskan at the sword coast? The tower of the magicans? Level 2 party, 2nd session of a bigger campaign.... and they run into the tower of evil.... I had no plans for it....and the end of the night they are all slaves of the mastermind.... that worked because I knows what the masterminds motivates.... Back to the walls.... max be a compilation of ideas and ways? A pool of knowledge for such cases? That will be great :)
I'm the one that have to say thank you... It is as you say in the intro.... always a level up for DMing Esspecialy this video will really help DMs. ... creating the NPCS background to define their motivation is a great help... and in most cases it also creates automatically parts of the story and world, also relationships to other NPCs... It is like programming a big network. ... and if you pull, push or interact with one of the cross points of the network, all other connected crossingpoints will move automatically (nearly... you know the direction and it is easier to react)... So thank you for showing how to create a more detailed network :)
This is all very good advice and I do quite like the style of villain you present. Many GMs (and official publications) have the political mastermind actually be a shapechanged dragon, or the crazy leader of the inquisition a level 20 cleric. That said, I find the special abilities of your villains to be contrarian to your points. In the beginning, you mention how capturing the player characters is very difficult and railroady. I agree to that part. But then, Claudia has a special ability that causes 95% of male characters to be incapable of attempting to physically harm her - with no chance of ever overcoming this limitation. This also makes the various walls you set up obsolete. If you learn about her dark secret, bring her to court, see her getting off the hook, learn that she still tortures innocent people, face her again and when the GM then tells you that you can't hurt her because she's so charming, how does this make you feel? Well, you feel as if nothing you'll ever do will matter. Maybe you'll hate her as a player, but the GM imposes on you that your character likes her so much that he would never hurt her. Inquisitor Paine is a threat because he's a charismatic fanatic. The final confrontation sounds brilliant, but what will happen? Well, your group of 4-7 players attacks him to stop him from igniting the gunpowder. No matter if they hit and how much damage they do, he survives and ignites the powder. Him being a fanatic who doesn't feel pain is cool, but not feeling pain doesn't help you against being chopped into pieces or penetrated by a balista. Technically, his ability even negates him being a martyr since he survives the explosion if he is above 2 HP. Him always being surrounded by fanatics has a different way to keep him alive: they try to sacrifice themselves to protect him. Taking him prisoner doesn't do anything because he doesn't fear death or torture and even if he is taken prisoner or if he died, his followers will try to complete his plan in his stead anyway.
"Walls" seem like a really good literary device for extending the lifespan of a villain. Even though many people do it, I'm not sure there was such a succinct a term for DM's to describe the device to each other until now. What's the sculpt for Inquisitor Pain (sp?)?
The term usually used is "Plot Armor," but that carries a negative connotation, and implies the character is only being kept alive through DM/Storyteller Fiat rather than there being a logical reason... Terming it "the wall" or "the barrier" is ingenious for the simple reason that it carries the implication that there is a logical, in universe reason for why the villain is not instantly dispatched by our heroes.
Just watched Skyfall at the professor's recommendation. Seemed to me like the exact opposite way to handle a villain. The villain was introduced abruptly, with his origin explained instead of shown, and it all felt very forced. A much better villain seemed to be the random henchman who Bond fought with several times before meeting Silva. He posed a threat and a challenge to Bond, we were introduced to him gradually, and he needed to be stopped or the world was in danger. Had they just combined him Silva, it would have been a much more cohesive movie. They could have also dropped hints as to identity of the villain with each encounter Bond had with the henchman. That would have made his introduction far less out of the blue and disconnected from the story. I realize I'm in the minority on this one, but I still felt like posing a different perspective for the sake of the discussion.
Elisabeth Bathory, that's it! Couldn't recall the name, but I realised the similarities the moment I first heard the villain's description in a previous video.
Yo prof, first of all, BIG fan of the channel. I've used a lot of the stuff on here in my own games. I have a question regarding setting, I live in Scotland so my own campaigns are based on Celtic and Ancient British myth, with my party encountering Kelpies, Fomorians and Dragons in settings like sacred caves, druidic groves and misty glens. My question is what drew you to the humans only, low fantasy Germanic trappings of a warhammer like world? I really enjoy your more grounded takes on the usual DnD monsters and I'd like to know where you got your inspirations from. Many thanks!
I got one for ya! He's sorta this mad radical sage who bends or ignores all the laws of reality! Only nobody can stop him! They just don't want to turns out! ; p
Ok, after watching this I have put these lessons in practice. New campaign I'm writing the main villain is an Illithid (or as they are called in the campaign, The Children of Cthulhu) hive mind is trying to summon Cthulhu so he can terraform the planet into the next Illithid homeworld. So that is the plot/motivation. The main henchman is an Ulitharid Warlock who is orchestrating everything and, of course, all Illithid around the world working in concert to bring this plan to fruition. For the "wall' mechanic I am borrowing what Nova did in Alita Battle Angel. So the Hive Mind will be able to inhabit the mind of any of his agents around the world in an instant and then "talk" directly to the heroes without being in sword or spell range. The world, BTW is a low magic/low fantasy world. So no flying on your pet Pegasus to the nearest magic store to buy the super destructo wand or sword to fight the Hive Mind with. The players will have to use their wits and skill. I will be giving the players magic items but the items will scale with the players as they progress so none of that, "I have a +2 sword now so I'll sell my crappy +1 sword."
Starting a DCC campaign and I'm writing three main villains, one to represent each of the three alignments. My players don't know this yet though and the Lawful villain is going to be kind of a secret.
I tried something a little different with my "big bad" for my latest campaigns (running two concurrently in the same world, but one in the north, one in the south). I ran the same prologue for both groups, before they started the main campaigns, where I introduced not the big bad, but the idea of him, and two of his most powerful henchmen... Lucius and Venia, a lich and demilich respectively. When the "heroes of the realm" (level 15) opened a portal to a far distant land, they are interrogated and killed by these two, and one question in particular is driving the undead... "Where is G'lothor?" They lost their leader in an ancient war and want him back. They know he's not dead, because if his physical form was destroyed, he would have returned to his phylactery, so they want to know where he is. The players hadn't heard of him, so they were killed, and the undead used the portal the heroes opened to invade. Lucius (Venia is insane) has one goal... find his master. He's invading cities, looking for any proof of where G'lothor was imprisoned. But the heroes who dealt with G'lothor hid him, and knowledge of him, so well that no living being knows where he is. There are no details of that final battle. Save one... in a book written in dwarven (dwarves are functionally extinct), and the players stole it from a southern library and were tasked with getting it to safety... just before an undead dragon flew into town and toppled the library. They DON'T KNOW what the book says, and are running for their lives across a desert. It's been so much fun. Eventually they will find a way to decode it, but that's a long way off still. The northern group may even stumble across G'lothor before the south figures it out.
@@bradmiller2329 that's exactly what they wound up doing, eventually. One of their wizards learned it and read it, cover to cover, and although SHE felt a sense of dread because the northern group had already removed the safeguards ensuring the lich stayed entombed, her character didn't know any of that. It was such a great plot point, because when the players in the other group listened to the podcast they swore a LOT! lol
@@bradmiller2329 It really was. The southern group sent a courier on a Pegasus to the north to warn them against removing the artifact, if found, but the northern group was under seige and couldn't return it right away. When they finally got back, it was to discover that G'lothor's tomb was already ransacked. That was just a couple sessions ago. So they figure the world is doomed, and it's all their fault. Mwahaha!
Never had a lot of opportunities for a great Villain Speech. Got a former Bandit who bought himself into high society in a city and ran the nastiest gang in town surreptitiously. He had an alliance with a necromancer who was on his own path for power but failed.. The Bandit King/Merchant Prince was found out, tried and executed. He was buried in the family crypt wearing a necromantic medallion that brought him back as a Wight-like gang leader. His legitimate enterprises, the manor, the trading company and the winery have been seized but his evil gang, now based in the sewers continues to thrive. Man he should get some sort of epic speech maybe about little jealous men trying to hold him down. Jealous of his success and his nerve. But they couldn't stop him. Even death didn't stop him, cause Don Guiseppe Maximus was marked for greatness at Birth. Yes need to have a monologue. Join me. We will run this city.
I've always considered Doctor Doom to be one of the best arch-villains. His code of honour, his strength, and his diplomatic immunity. His country loves him and they a profitable and prosperous nation; sure, he wants to destroy Reed Richards, but he's on good terms with the likes of Spiderman, Doctor Strange and Captain America. His character is by far one of the most complex of the Comic Book villains and he's persistent too.
Inspired by Colville, I had my campaign group meet the big bad the very first night they played. He overwhelmed them and dismissed them as the level 1 chattel that they were. Through pure happenstance the party immediately got a hold of a McGuffin that this bad guy desperately wants. 3 years into our campaign they still have not defeated him, his plan is about to come to fruition. I believe in maintaining a sandbox so they've had plenty of distractions I've offered them while they know the bad guy is planning something.
I tried the coleville method. Worked great with most of the group, but my son-who has serious anxiety and depression problems-was devastated that I trashed his character. Its been over a year and I still don’t think he’s over it. I am bummed that the game fell apart before his friends could get their revenge. He was a great bad guy.
@@petergreen1875 I'm truly grieved to hear it for him. I'd level with him that it was meant to be a plot device. The spell I had my big bad use was Force Cage, I basically pushed them back, making them feel utterly powerless just as the magic of a portal nearby drew my party in, rather than the big bad. I didn't want to actually jail them or defeat them, just sweep them back like insects beneath his concern. Do you think you could get your son and a group together? Give them some missions, some xp, and then let them find your big bad in some other plot and let them finally get to quash him, and give him some just deserts?
@@jeremygriffin620 He and I have talked about it. Part of why I like roleplaying with my kids is because it can actually be very therapeutic. But I'm no therapist and he's not a normal kid, so it is sometimes challenging. Definitely some learning and growth on both sides of the screen. With his friends, it worked absolutely as intended. They all wanted revenge and new it would take some time and leveling up to make it happen. They came away smarter, better players, more immersed in the game world. For my son, it took more time and effort for him to understand the experience. For me it was a good lesson in knowing your audience. His youngest brother is 5 years younger, and I've beat down his characters a lot more and more often, and he takes it in stride. But there is a huge difference between how the two boys identify with their characters, and how emotionally reactive they each are. My oldest son reads way above grade level, but many emotional experiences in stories overwhelm him. For example, he loved Harry Potter and read the first book when he was 5, but he stalled out in the series when Harry had to deal with Umbridge. He's 15 now, and that is still one of his least favorite parts of the series.
@@petergreen1875 I don't think you need to worry about your lack of professional skill to support his mental health, you clearly have his heart in mind and plenty of empathy and understanding. Keep trying with him, and good luck to you!
This may have been asked before- and on a separate video (one actually related to your minis)- but would you 'list' the minis you use in your campaigns and intro? Particularly brand and where you got them? That would be extremely useful. I am keen on looking for a few of the ones you have used. I know you have used a lot of Kingdom Death minis- but the actual mini name would be nice as well. Keep up the great work! And thanks in advance!
It is sooo much fun to hear your players complain, and whine, when they can't outright kill their enemy... It is sooo much fun twisting the knife in their proverbial guts, dangling their enemy in sight, but they know they cannot touch them. Oh, the verbal digs fly, from both sides. It is epic fun for everyone. Then, when they finally put the rabid dog (per their view) down, it is oh-so-satisfying for them. Mine often cheer, out loud, yelling, "YES! Finally!" These are the memories they cherish for years to come. This stuff makes DM'ing so much fun! Good-aligned PC's are much easier to taunt, and goad. Neutral, and evil players, generally find a stealth attack to dispose of the problem NPC's, and are not nearly as much fun to DM. YMMV. Cheers!
I’m doing an inverse on the knights of the round table being evil attempting to severe the connection between universes and merge them together crushing the blind eternities along with it. The pcs have been tasked to kill this group by a keeper of the balance who is secretly an eldrazi Titan in disguise. Along the way hey have had to deal with mages who worship said titans and create bubbles of time of perpetual suffering in order to create their own ascendant realms/ phylacteries. It’s very much a long term Mtg campaign based off the adventures of the gatewatch with a bit of a message on the nature of power and whether power is worth the pain it causes.
For novices, I usually tell them to pick a book or movie they have seen or read quite a few times and mirror the plotline. For advance, know your Villian and the walls will come Who? What? How? When? Where and Why?. Write the villain out and the walls will come. Currently, My big baddy is a Doppelganger that is going to unite the lands under his rule. He sacked the Mayor of the largest city. He is trying to save his people as their lands have been ruined. But Doppler gangers are an evil sort of people, not trustworthy, and help is not offered. Of course, this isn't an original idea, this idea mostly comes from the Secret Wars by Marvel...a comic that I've read several times. Picking something you're familiar with allows focus on details. As always, the Devils in the Details. Yes, my adventures haggle for everything. Though really good for books, I've found time-sensitive campaigns backfire. At the start of the game, I'm quick to say this is a game, and there is a time limit on this game, I'm done in such ? hours. It tends to put pressure on the players to get a move on, sometimes I run electronic timer, so they can see the clock count down, if their a meandering sort, that plays on cell phones and likes searching for snacks, it's on them on what they did with their time. It puts the pressure back on the players to move the plot along.
“Does this blacksmith have a better sword than I have?” That’s not a question to the DM. That’s a question to be asked to the blacksmith. The answer is always “yes”. A merchant is always willing to take money from potential customers. Look at the fine work on the hilt. The blacksmith is the best one from miles around and has much finer swords than the shabby one the player has. I wouldn’t role play it out too much but I’m trying to get in the habit of not letting out information that would be better gained through an NPC.
Yeah I don't think any of those villains are quite up to Gwyneth Paltrow levels of evil. Another good example of the onion is Baldurs Gate, the video game. Kobolds are causing trouble, you find their boss. He seems to be working for some other guy causing trouble in a forest. You track him down and he appears to be working for some bandit chief. You find him and he's working for some trade guild. You track them down and they seem to be the big bads, so you kill them, only to find the real big bad set you up. Then you spend a long time escaping a prison and tracking the big bad down. All the time, you kind of knew this big bad was out there due to the opening cut scene, but you did not know where he fits in with the plot. Baldurs Gate 2 always gets the credit, but the first game is almost a master class on how to set up a low level campaign.
If I have learned anything from you it's this, the villain doesn't have to be the BBEG. The Adventure I have my party on has 4 villains. One being a Coven of Hags who have been terrorizing a village for nigh on half a millennia, the village chieftain who wants to keep the fact that this was his ancestors fault a secret (Also the one that hired the group to deal with the hags), a tribe of bandits that live on the mountain by maintaining an accord with the hags, and finally a rival adventuring party looking to snipe the contract out from under them, led by a nasty ranger who's name happens to be Gerri the B****. 5, if you count the powerful Ice Demon the Hags draw their power from, and 6 if you count the treacherous mountain itself. Muhahahahahahahaha!!! Sorry If I got a little too enthusiastic there. Needless to say my party is eating it up. A little bit more relivant to the video itself I like the fact that you mentioned that Inquisitor Payne is not a cleric, I also assume he is no longer a Paladin. I always dislike seeing when an evil or corrupt clergymen can still cast divine magic. It just doesn't make sense, I mean don't they draw their power from a higher being? Sure maybe that being could be evil, but you'd expect that to have an affect on what powers the clergymen get's to begin with, not to mention the way it's church and teachings would assert themselves in the world. So if he indeed no longer has divine power that's a nice touch. I always feel like one should never assume that a clergymen is a full fledged cleric, or that someone with levels of cleric is a clergymen. I mean think Joan of Arc she would have been a Cleric or a Paladin, but was never a member of the clergy. Sure most Cleric characters SHOULD be clergymen it makes sense but clergymen should rarily be Clerics, and Cleric players should be able to find themselves at odds with the church itself quite often. Being just as likely to be burned at the stake as witches as slain by heathens.
I remember using the villain is not the BBEG trick. In Scion I had this group of bad guys collecting a death to all gods artifact. The players were scrambling to stop them. Meanwhile, a child of Loki was with them the whole time. He saved their asses, he provided them aid, his little poker circle gave them quests. In one case, he was family. They learned his hatred of the gods, how he wanted to get rid of all the gods. Sure enough, he was the bbeg of the game, and wanted to supplant the gods, seeing them as irrelevant and obsolete. I even got to do a "join my side and rule the world alongside me" gimmick and it wasn't cheesy because he sincerely grew to care for them and wanted them, this was his family why not reward them? The players surprised me by defeating him non-lethally. They stood against him but agreed with him. The gods had grown fat and lazy. It's just what he wanted would be too disruptive to earth. So they stopped him but made sure his punishment wasn't harsh.
@dungeoncraft Professor, Thank you for making this video, I found it very insightful. Your videos regarding the Caves Of Carnage are also useful but “Carnage” is a much different game than the “Baroness of Blood”. The Carnage videos are wonderful insights on how to design encounters, maps, and world-building(I have not forgotten about Max Manheim), but Baroness (or whatever on Hammerstein’s title may be) seems to be for more developed player characters, ones who survive the meat grinder of early levels. Baroness is a long-term campaign. In order to unravel the mysteries of the Baroness game you need to keep the characters alive. How do you do that in the face of such perils as a fighter only having 10 hit points or a wizard having to worry whether or not his nest spell that he casts will melt off his face or turn his left leg into a tentacle? How do you achieve this? Do you hive more leeway to your Baroness group than you do to the Carnage players? Or are your Baroness players just that good at surviving? I understand that fudging die rolls in favor of the players is bad for business. It makes a GM look weak. If I were to do it, I would never admit to doing it because once the secret is out, the challenges of the game lose their threat.
That was a truly thought provoking video. Hollywood should take a look at the unlimited possibilities for new villains gaining sympathy from the audience to some degree. Are you considering adding a clone channel on Bitchute?
It's very difficult to build walls in games like D&D 5e where players are just too powerful. Sometimes I just don't present the real villain until the day they'll finally fight him.
Gm: So... Villains are like onions.
Player: they stink?
Gm: Nooo... They have layers.
*Background starts Holding Out for a Hero*
What about cakes!!?? Cakes have layers!
They really should.
No... They make little girls cry.
They're.. ogres?
I try to give good, reasoned feedback. I cannot this week. The Gweneth Paltrow joke made me spill my drink i was laughing, so my wife needed to know what was up, and now you have another fan. She's still learning 5th edition and she smacked my arm. 'Why can't you explain your world and villain building like this'. BA vs PhD, my dear. I am but the learner, he is the master. Great video, superb advice, and some really top notch jokes and references her. :)
I lost it at, "It's a green whiteboard, so it's a green... it's like a green onion." Glad that with all the masterful education you provide, you're still taking time to be a massive dork, Professor. Much respect!
Thanks, Mr Lion. Share this video with your cool D&D playing friends!
The main "antagonist" from my last game was such a nice and honorable man (playing L5R), the players spent half an hour trying to convince him to join their side instead of fighting, and even then they tried their best not to kill him simply because they felt he didnt deserve it. In the end his inevitable demise was a tragic sight to them all. Because your goals diverge doesn't mean the other guy is a terrible person.
Oh man, the G, D and Q series. What a ride! That took us through most of high school to finish and had some of my most memorable moments of gaming. I went through four different characters before the end, my favorite one being Grishnakh (I was reading a lot of Tolkien then), a half-ogre which my DM allowed when it came out in Dragon magazine.
There was a point in Vault of the Drow when our group had to flee from a drow hunting party and I picked the short straw to lead our pursuers away down another path. After a merry chase through caves and tunnels, 'Grish' (as the party called the character) was cornered at the edge of a chasm. Fully expecting to die (again), he took to high ground whereupon he began hurling his entire supply of javelins of lighting at the oncoming enemy. When those ran out he made his last stand, swinging his bastard sword of wounding all the while taunting the enemy with insults. He made good account of himself, but in the end Grish was overwhelmed. Since the DM allowed 'dying moves' for characters (another Dragon magazine supplemental rule), I had Grish embrace two of the drow engaged with him in melee in a bear hug before leaping to his death over the chasm.
Good times.
I create a back story for some of my villains that tempt players into sympathizing with the villain. When they accidentally find themselves opposing the villain while on a quest or mission he pushes their buttons making it personal drawing them in to either join him or battle to the death. This can take dozens of sessions to accomplish carefully guiding them along the path to collision. The villain will actually befriend them at first while hiding his true intentions until they cross courses. I love making really good villains for my players to face. It makes for an epic game that can last through a long twisting turning epoch. Longest running game so far is 10 years. And it gets better every time we play.
Sometimes this can be very effective, and make for interesting antagonists for the party-but don't overlook characters like "the man in black who fled across the desert and the gunslinger who followed." Randal Flag had no illusions what he was--terrorizing people was just fun for him. (See Allie and Nort and the town of Tull in the Gunslinger) Rose the Hat from Dr. Sleep, or any number of villains who are evil, who know they are evil, and who have a great time being evil. For instance, Pennywise was always happy to be present and be himself in the moment. Demons, devils and other fiends from the lower planes are representative of evil for it's own sake, so big E existential evil, outside human control or comprehension.
On a human level, Ramsey Bolton from Game of Thrones is well worth study--does he think he's a good guy or a good man. Not hardly. He enjoys creating terror. He enjoys ruling by fear. He enjoys twisting people under his heel into creatures like Reek. In the books, he's no gentler with Jeyne Poole. And then when he turns around and asks, "Reek, do you love me?" It's just chilling. There's no sympathizing with that--and yet for a villain Ramsey Bolton is a work of art, and Martin rightly keeps him behind that wall our Professor mentions.
I use the Crackdown approach. The mastermind has an organization with each henchmen is in control of a particular aspect. Eliminating the henchmen weakens the group and makes overall more likely to be overcome. For example, take out the arms dealer and now the rest have pistols and shotguns instead of assault and sniper rifles. *edited for clarity and spelling.
Very cool. Thanks for watching and sharing!
Dude so pulpy I love it
This sounds a bit like how Breath of the Wild did its approach to the BBEG: taking out strategic mini-bosses weakens the BBEG. You can take out 0-4 of these mini-bosses, with the rewards for them being insanely useful in both typical play and against the BBEG in particular.
@@RikuofManyPaths Interesting. Never heard of Breath of the Wild.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 I forgot to mention the main part of the title: The Legend of Zelda. :D
One idea I had is a doomsday clock. Instead of measuring units in days, you simply have an abstract number on a chart, or a dial, or a tearaway wall calendar. Every time the PCs procrastinate or take too long to work something out, you reach across the table and lower the doomsday clock by one. It can be very powerful without tying you too much into specifics.
Very good idea!
PDM: every great villain believes in his own mind that he's the good guy
The Joker: Hold my beer
I love your videos. One aspect of villains I think you could drill into is the difference between a foil and a villain. Foils constantly undercut the heroes or prevent them from reaching their goals. They might be a rival, a law officer, the noble lady you describe, or a pious (holier than thou) priest, in opposition but not actively working against the party.
Foils exist to be outsmarted and to create problems that the PCs can't resolve by force of arms. Villains exist to be vanquished, to allow the heroes to be, well, heroic.
Love it. I want to steal both of these villains for my own campaign now.
This is one of your best videos yet, in my opinion, Professor. You helped me to remember things I had forgotten. I ran a campaign of the 007 RPG for almost a decade and the villains were utterly diabolical. The players hated them - and they loved them.
I LOVE how your villains aren't threats to the heroes directly- it's the sneaky snake like influence they have.... and how they can make life very hard for the players..... I love it!
Town = Gear Upgrades for many. Always good to quickly squash that with a, "It's unlikely this small town has any gear finer than what you already poses."
Good point and I'll be mentioning that in a future video. Not sure which one, but it will happen.
But you do know Chelsie, the magic cow from Knights of the Dinner Table?
Honestly, I think this is why liches are such a classic villain in d&d. Their inability to die without their phylactery being destroyed is one of the most common walls like this that I've seen in any d&d game.
Another great video! Thanks professor! - as a last thought, if all else fails with the villain - a band of Orcs attack - the ultimate cliche
I learn something every time I watch one of your videos. Great stuff!
An excellent video once again. Your first point is something akin to what I've implemented for sometime - the 'villian' as protagonist. It is the BBG (evil is optional) who has a plan and who drives the story. The PCs can engage or not as they please, but they ignore the warning signs at their peril.
I particularly like your idea of 'walls' and protagonists who are no match (on paper) for the PCs.
An additional concept to throw into the mix is the anti-villain/anti-hero. Your anti-hero is someone who has high-minded (if misguided) goals and will use dastardly means to get there. The anti-villian would be the opposite, with strict codes on behaviour but is using them towards nefarious or selfish ends. Both could see themselves as a tragic or flawed hero and, if played correctly, be more 'heroic' than the PCs.
When I was younger, I played a card-based Marvel Superhero RPG, and the book had a set of rules about villain death and villain edge:
Rule 1: If the villain dies, the body is never found. Without the body, there is no death, and the villain lives to trouble the heroes another day.
Rule 2: If the villain dies, and a body is found, it is never the villain's body. It's a cloned corpse or a shapeshifter, and the villain lives to trouble the heroes another day.
Rule 3: If the villain dies, and it is their body that is found, their mind is not there. They shift into another body, into a computer, or into the cosmos. After some superhuman reconstructive efforts, the villain lives to trouble the heroes another day.
Rule 4: If the villain dies, body and mind, another person will take up the villain's mantle. Copycats, distressed relatives, family pets. The villain lives (in spirit) to trouble the heroes another day.
Rule 5: If the villain dies in body and mind and nobody takes up the villain's mantle, they were not the main villain, and a worse villain will now trouble the heroes another day.
Edge was a stat that all villains had, in a range of 1-4, and the info on this read something like "Magneto has a 4 Edge for a reason: he is brilliant, he is resourceful, he is powerful, and he has many, many underlings willing to fight to protect him and his mission." Good villains are about the only thing harder to kill than cockroaches, and that makes taking one down insanely cathartic.
Awesome video, you made some great points and had some killer references to drive those points home. I’ll definitely use this information when creating my NPCs in later campaigns. Well done
Iron Corpse-thanks for the kind words. I appreciate your viewership!
Best D&D channel on RUclips, no comparison! Thanks for another great video, Professor! 😍
“It’s like a whiteboard, but it’s green. It’s a green onion.” 😂 Subscription earned!
Recurring henchmen are like delicious bacon.
You had me at bacon. Yes, it was the last word, but then, bacon so often IS the last word... in flavor.
@10:50 Bold move to base your villain so transparently on Hillary...
Except the attraction part. 💩
I have found that, in my local scene, the writers tend to be the better GMs. Shouldn’t really be a surprise, but I love the comparisons between, and contrasts with, other types of storytelling and GMing. Helps those of us who don’t have the luxury if writing full time!
I love the scenarios you make, it gives your game world life. This is probably one of the best channels I have ever found for new DMs like me. Thank you.
Yes my players do that! Thank the lord you mentioned it. They'll visit ever shop they can think of looking for better items. I've taken to sending them to the catfolk who've set up just outside of town to throw cursed items at them and see how they handle them because if they were spending so much time shopping, I might as well make it interesting. Will start setting time limits for quests and see if that helps.
Loved the Gwenyth Bathory joke!
🩸❣️🩸
Playing it on mute 'cause I'm still at work. But the algorithm must be fed, so...
Get back to work, u can watch when u get home
The villain leaving a mocking letter is quite a good wall and can be left with some vicious act of villainy, or a trap to be spung. Barlow does this in Salem's Lot
One of the best videos ever on this channel.
That's saying something!
Great video professor. I needed this advice! Thank you.
If your players are asking every sword seller if they have a better sword, have everyone tell them yes. And also each has a different idea of what "better" means.
Also, it's not for SALE, they have to do a QUEST to get him to hand it over.
@@benvoliothefirst Or the merchant has 1 good sword (that he didn't even make), but refuses to sell it because he uses it as a bait-and-switch to sell his own crappier goods.
Or because they're good salesmen, they ALWAYS have a better sword.
Oh this is the best sword? No no no, my friend this is the best sword! "Pulls out a regular ass sword that looks a lot like the sword the PC has but this one has a "real" gemstone in the pommel that DEFINITELY WON'T fall out in their first combat encounter.
Current villian is Viscount Maxamillian Mung who has recently become the King of the Kingdom of Kilkenny. He is in a civil war with the other nobles of the kingdom who have revolted because he contracted lycanthropy and now seems obsessed over finding an elf child who is prophesized to cause the downfall of his kingdom. I'm modeling him on MacBeth. The characters met him when he burned his rebelling nobles village (the peasants' village). The peasant poet flattered him as the king and was spared his wrath as his troops killed eveyone else they could find and burned the whole village of Oakdale to the ground. An nice start.
Late to this vid, but THANK YOU for giving examples in your videos from your campaigns, it is very very helpful to have the context.
Not sure if it was intentional, but the way the whole "support the channel" part was cut off half a second earlier than you'd normally see is still hilarious to me
Great video. Villains like this make the game awesome.
Awesome as always. Good villains are the key to a good game.
Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment!
Many good points here. I think I will basically steal all of them for my next villain!
Lovely jubbly, thank you, most stimulating.
My group doesn't look for the better sword, they visit every blacksmith to see who is cheapest of them all.
They are counts of a province yet they haggle like Uncle Scrooge, making everyone around look strangely, since, you know, nobles usually flaunt their fortune whenever they can.
They always get comments like "You bear the Count Rings, sires, but with all due respect, you act like farmers looking for the cheapest whorehouse"
You can't stay rich if you don't know how to save money.
If my players did this, they would get nuked from orbit every time they spent more than two minutes in a shop. After the second time, they'd start counting the seconds.
Awesome stuff, as usual professor.
Professor, love the concept of weak villianous neimisis. Thank you for the tip, keep up making these awesome videos.
I absolutely love your stuff. Please, keep it up.
Thanks Jared. New video on Mass Combat out now!
In my campaign world one of the primary villains is "The Shadow Lord" players have been hearing about him for years but never seem to get any closer to him, he has fingers in politics across the realms and is a power for ruthless dispassionate law. One day one of the party's encountered a NASTY fighter that they found terrifying(he escaped), over time they learned that the fighter is the "SL's" general.
Eventually they will get him 'cornered' but my intention was not until they are 10-12th level as a group.
Precise explanation. Thank you.
Francesco L. Bellman Thanks for watching!
In a TMNT adventure I designed, a wall I used a was to have the villain appear on a tequila bottle.
The villain had his own line of tequila.
I also had a villain communicate to the party through a crystal. He hired them to eliminate a nuisance. He didn’t realize that the PCs were there to defeat him.
I’ve never called it Walls but I always use them!
Really great bad guys . I will use them and in return l give you one of mine. Captain Olaf Redsun. He operates a ferry / cargo ship that rides the rivers and coast ( not deep waters) , his first mate is Alora Thornheart , a beautiful redheaded pirate. Expert navigator swordsman and has a bandolier of 24 throwing knives. Anyone who travels with him , is drugged robbed and fed to the sharks or the river drowners. Thier gear and gold is divided up among the crew. As a merchant , he is always honest with his taxes so the town leadership and guilds will not prosecute him. He is all yours professor.
Sorry for being nitpicky, but while Bathory was a sadistic serial killer, she never bathed in blood. That was added to her tale later to make the story more gruesome. As if it needed that....other than that, I love every one of your videos. Even with a decade of GMing behind me, there is still a lot to learn.
I have a villain in my game who is a warforged that wants nothing more than to end suffering. His people were crated as war machines that 800 years ago gained sentience those outside of the factories had to run and hide.While the one in the factories were buried alive. That's where he lived for hundreds of year as they went mad ripping each other apart. So he plan wipeout all organic life and remove free will, other than his own. His "wall" as you put it is that he is able to jump from body to body that he has created. He's been fun.
I added a concept to my campaign that works really well for antagonists that wield political power and not physical power. There is a special will that can be purchased from very specific notarizers that is functionally a contingency resurrection spell should you be killed, the price is very high but anyone with enough gold can purchase one, so it is common practice for the wealthy and elite to have such a will. I do maintain that crossing over and back again takes a toll, so each time a character is resurrected, they are a little more insane pc or otherwise
Great video...will definitely watch a few more times. I think a really good villain can make or break the story. Thanks Prof....Cheers!!
Love the inquisitor villain, totally gonna use it
So random questions here. A-What if your villain is not so much a mastermind but just a force that has a random chaotic goal. Example. A large more intelligent colony of ogres. They wish to expand and treat people and other things like food and what not. Killing the leader will slow that desire, but someone else will just rise to take over. How to do manage what I will call "group" villains like that. Also, for a second question. Say the heros enter a city where the villain already has what he wants. Soo, like a vampire lord that acts as the leader of a city and already has control. His desire to control the city has already occurred. Would his motivations then be to keep what he has, so thus be a more reactive force? Which then would not really have a time frame. As he would just react to incoming threats.
Edward DeAngelis Thanks for asking! I think every group has a leader-especially groups that seek to expand & conquer more territory. As far as villains who are already in charge-there still has to be something they want or a goal. Maybe the vampire wants to expand the borders of its undead empire or wants to find its true love, reincarnated as one of the PCs. Hope that helps!
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 It very much does. I think I might end up doing tiers of growth. So as in, there will be a goal for the villain. But the players don't lose if they don't reach it in time. He will just advance in power, making them need to take new routes and making him stronger in the end.
@@edwarddeangelis1999 Good ideas.
Great job as everytime professor :)
Yes the motivation behind a villain, born in a background, make it easy(ier) to react to every event.... and the players always find a way the DM hasn't planed.
Spending a little bit more time to this point will be a great invest....
The wall idea is great.... I have often the problem that the PC .... Make crazy things.... you know forgotten realms? Luskan at the sword coast? The tower of the magicans? Level 2 party, 2nd session of a bigger campaign.... and they run into the tower of evil.... I had no plans for it....and the end of the night they are all slaves of the mastermind.... that worked because I knows what the masterminds motivates....
Back to the walls.... max be a compilation of ideas and ways? A pool of knowledge for such cases? That will be great :)
Thanks for taking the time to comment, Ete. I worked very hard on this particular video.
I'm the one that have to say thank you... It is as you say in the intro.... always a level up for DMing
Esspecialy this video will really help DMs. ... creating the NPCS background to define their motivation is a great help... and in most cases it also creates automatically parts of the story and world, also relationships to other NPCs... It is like programming a big network. ... and if you pull, push or interact with one of the cross points of the network, all other connected crossingpoints will move automatically (nearly... you know the direction and it is easier to react)...
So thank you for showing how to create a more detailed network :)
This was really thought-provoking and interesting. Subbed.
This is all very good advice and I do quite like the style of villain you present. Many GMs (and official publications) have the political mastermind actually be a shapechanged dragon, or the crazy leader of the inquisition a level 20 cleric.
That said, I find the special abilities of your villains to be contrarian to your points. In the beginning, you mention how capturing the player characters is very difficult and railroady. I agree to that part.
But then, Claudia has a special ability that causes 95% of male characters to be incapable of attempting to physically harm her - with no chance of ever overcoming this limitation. This also makes the various walls you set up obsolete. If you learn about her dark secret, bring her to court, see her getting off the hook, learn that she still tortures innocent people, face her again and when the GM then tells you that you can't hurt her because she's so charming, how does this make you feel?
Well, you feel as if nothing you'll ever do will matter. Maybe you'll hate her as a player, but the GM imposes on you that your character likes her so much that he would never hurt her.
Inquisitor Paine is a threat because he's a charismatic fanatic. The final confrontation sounds brilliant, but what will happen? Well, your group of 4-7 players attacks him to stop him from igniting the gunpowder. No matter if they hit and how much damage they do, he survives and ignites the powder. Him being a fanatic who doesn't feel pain is cool, but not feeling pain doesn't help you against being chopped into pieces or penetrated by a balista. Technically, his ability even negates him being a martyr since he survives the explosion if he is above 2 HP. Him always being surrounded by fanatics has a different way to keep him alive: they try to sacrifice themselves to protect him. Taking him prisoner doesn't do anything because he doesn't fear death or torture and even if he is taken prisoner or if he died, his followers will try to complete his plan in his stead anyway.
Ahaha! Paltrow! For sure there is some sort of Jungian archetype connection to Bathroy
272 likes and no dislikes... keep the streak going! Gwyneth Paltrow can shove her glitter crystals where the sun doesn't shine.
Another amazing video!
"Walls" seem like a really good literary device for extending the lifespan of a villain. Even though many people do it, I'm not sure there was such a succinct a term for DM's to describe the device to each other until now.
What's the sculpt for Inquisitor Pain (sp?)?
Ethan Myers That is an old GW model from the Mordheim line, if I’m not mistaken. I have so many minis, I can’t be sure.
The term usually used is "Plot Armor," but that carries a negative connotation, and implies the character is only being kept alive through DM/Storyteller Fiat rather than there being a logical reason... Terming it "the wall" or "the barrier" is ingenious for the simple reason that it carries the implication that there is a logical, in universe reason for why the villain is not instantly dispatched by our heroes.
@@MogofWar Thanks, Mog. Pass this video on!
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Storyteller Fiat is bad. Chrysler Fiat... is also bad.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Found it, thanks. It's the Mordheim Cult of the Possessed Magister Leader.
Just watched Skyfall at the professor's recommendation. Seemed to me like the exact opposite way to handle a villain.
The villain was introduced abruptly, with his origin explained instead of shown, and it all felt very forced.
A much better villain seemed to be the random henchman who Bond fought with several times before meeting Silva. He posed a threat and a challenge to Bond, we were introduced to him gradually, and he needed to be stopped or the world was in danger. Had they just combined him Silva, it would have been a much more cohesive movie. They could have also dropped hints as to identity of the villain with each encounter Bond had with the henchman. That would have made his introduction far less out of the blue and disconnected from the story.
I realize I'm in the minority on this one, but I still felt like posing a different perspective for the sake of the discussion.
Amazing video, just whatI needed
Yes skyfall was a good movie.
I like the onion and wall ideas.
Good video
I always love your Videos professor, KEEP 'UM COMIN'!
Elisabeth Bathory, that's it! Couldn't recall the name, but I realised the similarities the moment I first heard the villain's description in a previous video.
Great advice, as always, professor!
You made some insightful points in this video
This vid is pure gold.
Yo prof, first of all, BIG fan of the channel. I've used a lot of the stuff on here in my own games. I have a question regarding setting, I live in Scotland so my own campaigns are based on Celtic and Ancient British myth, with my party encountering Kelpies, Fomorians and Dragons in settings like sacred caves, druidic groves and misty glens. My question is what drew you to the humans only, low fantasy Germanic trappings of a warhammer like world? I really enjoy your more grounded takes on the usual DnD monsters and I'd like to know where you got your inspirations from.
Many thanks!
In the late 80s we started playing Warhammer. The Germanic names made it feel more grounded to me. Cheers!
I got one for ya! He's sorta this mad radical sage who bends or ignores all the laws of reality! Only nobody can stop him! They just don't want to turns out! ; p
Ok, after watching this I have put these lessons in practice.
New campaign I'm writing the main villain is an Illithid (or as they are called in the campaign, The Children of Cthulhu) hive mind is trying to summon Cthulhu so he can terraform the planet into the next Illithid homeworld. So that is the plot/motivation.
The main henchman is an Ulitharid Warlock who is orchestrating everything and, of course, all Illithid around the world working in concert to bring this plan to fruition.
For the "wall' mechanic I am borrowing what Nova did in Alita Battle Angel. So the Hive Mind will be able to inhabit the mind of any of his agents around the world in an instant and then "talk" directly to the heroes without being in sword or spell range.
The world, BTW is a low magic/low fantasy world. So no flying on your pet Pegasus to the nearest magic store to buy the super destructo wand or sword to fight the Hive Mind with. The players will have to use their wits and skill. I will be giving the players magic items but the items will scale with the players as they progress so none of that, "I have a +2 sword now so I'll sell my crappy +1 sword."
Starting a DCC campaign and I'm writing three main villains, one to represent each of the three alignments. My players don't know this yet though and the Lawful villain is going to be kind of a secret.
The Wall, known in video games as a plane of unbreakable glass and a timed lock.
I like the video and its transitions. Keep it up :)
I tried something a little different with my "big bad" for my latest campaigns (running two concurrently in the same world, but one in the north, one in the south). I ran the same prologue for both groups, before they started the main campaigns, where I introduced not the big bad, but the idea of him, and two of his most powerful henchmen... Lucius and Venia, a lich and demilich respectively. When the "heroes of the realm" (level 15) opened a portal to a far distant land, they are interrogated and killed by these two, and one question in particular is driving the undead... "Where is G'lothor?" They lost their leader in an ancient war and want him back. They know he's not dead, because if his physical form was destroyed, he would have returned to his phylactery, so they want to know where he is. The players hadn't heard of him, so they were killed, and the undead used the portal the heroes opened to invade. Lucius (Venia is insane) has one goal... find his master. He's invading cities, looking for any proof of where G'lothor was imprisoned. But the heroes who dealt with G'lothor hid him, and knowledge of him, so well that no living being knows where he is. There are no details of that final battle.
Save one... in a book written in dwarven (dwarves are functionally extinct), and the players stole it from a southern library and were tasked with getting it to safety... just before an undead dragon flew into town and toppled the library. They DON'T KNOW what the book says, and are running for their lives across a desert. It's been so much fun. Eventually they will find a way to decode it, but that's a long way off still. The northern group may even stumble across G'lothor before the south figures it out.
Sounds awesome! I love adventures about books. Thanks for sharing.
Comprehend languages spell?
@@bradmiller2329 that's exactly what they wound up doing, eventually. One of their wizards learned it and read it, cover to cover, and although SHE felt a sense of dread because the northern group had already removed the safeguards ensuring the lich stayed entombed, her character didn't know any of that. It was such a great plot point, because when the players in the other group listened to the podcast they swore a LOT! lol
@@RyanToxopeus Oh, that is just *beautiful*!
@@bradmiller2329 It really was. The southern group sent a courier on a Pegasus to the north to warn them against removing the artifact, if found, but the northern group was under seige and couldn't return it right away. When they finally got back, it was to discover that G'lothor's tomb was already ransacked. That was just a couple sessions ago.
So they figure the world is doomed, and it's all their fault. Mwahaha!
Never had a lot of opportunities for a great Villain Speech. Got a former Bandit who bought himself into high society in a city and ran the nastiest gang in town surreptitiously. He had an alliance with a necromancer who was on his own path for power but failed..
The Bandit King/Merchant Prince was found out, tried and executed. He was buried in the family crypt wearing a necromantic medallion that brought him back as a Wight-like gang leader. His legitimate enterprises, the manor, the trading company and the winery have been seized but his evil gang, now based in the sewers continues to thrive.
Man he should get some sort of epic speech maybe about little jealous men trying to hold him down. Jealous of his success and his nerve. But they couldn't stop him. Even death didn't stop him, cause Don Guiseppe Maximus was marked for greatness at Birth.
Yes need to have a monologue. Join me. We will run this city.
I have a group that asks if we leveled up, after they leveled up last session
That's why I love mile-stone leveling. For me, PCs only level up once they've finished an arc or story line.
@@liebneraj I do that nut I don't tell them; im guessing they think im adding up Exp or something
That sounds like the Adventurer's League rules. Just tell the party that AL rules don't apply at your table (unless you're running an AL game).
I've always considered Doctor Doom to be one of the best arch-villains. His code of honour, his strength, and his diplomatic immunity. His country loves him and they a profitable and prosperous nation; sure, he wants to destroy Reed Richards, but he's on good terms with the likes of Spiderman, Doctor Strange and Captain America. His character is by far one of the most complex of the Comic Book villains and he's persistent too.
Doctor Doom also got his ass kicked by a street level hero because he refused to pay him $300.
Inspired by Colville, I had my campaign group meet the big bad the very first night they played. He overwhelmed them and dismissed them as the level 1 chattel that they were. Through pure happenstance the party immediately got a hold of a McGuffin that this bad guy desperately wants. 3 years into our campaign they still have not defeated him, his plan is about to come to fruition. I believe in maintaining a sandbox so they've had plenty of distractions I've offered them while they know the bad guy is planning something.
I tried the coleville method. Worked great with most of the group, but my son-who has serious anxiety and depression problems-was devastated that I trashed his character. Its been over a year and I still don’t think he’s over it.
I am bummed that the game fell apart before his friends could get their revenge. He was a great bad guy.
@@petergreen1875 I'm truly grieved to hear it for him. I'd level with him that it was meant to be a plot device. The spell I had my big bad use was Force Cage, I basically pushed them back, making them feel utterly powerless just as the magic of a portal nearby drew my party in, rather than the big bad. I didn't want to actually jail them or defeat them, just sweep them back like insects beneath his concern.
Do you think you could get your son and a group together? Give them some missions, some xp, and then let them find your big bad in some other plot and let them finally get to quash him, and give him some just deserts?
@@jeremygriffin620 He and I have talked about it. Part of why I like roleplaying with my kids is because it can actually be very therapeutic. But I'm no therapist and he's not a normal kid, so it is sometimes challenging. Definitely some learning and growth on both sides of the screen. With his friends, it worked absolutely as intended. They all wanted revenge and new it would take some time and leveling up to make it happen. They came away smarter, better players, more immersed in the game world. For my son, it took more time and effort for him to understand the experience. For me it was a good lesson in knowing your audience. His youngest brother is 5 years younger, and I've beat down his characters a lot more and more often, and he takes it in stride. But there is a huge difference between how the two boys identify with their characters, and how emotionally reactive they each are. My oldest son reads way above grade level, but many emotional experiences in stories overwhelm him. For example, he loved Harry Potter and read the first book when he was 5, but he stalled out in the series when Harry had to deal with Umbridge. He's 15 now, and that is still one of his least favorite parts of the series.
@@petergreen1875 I don't think you need to worry about your lack of professional skill to support his mental health, you clearly have his heart in mind and plenty of empathy and understanding. Keep trying with him, and good luck to you!
The villain is the DM's PC. And just like any other PC, the basic "Who? What? When? Where? and Why?" questions should be answered.
Good point, Alex!
This may have been asked before- and on a separate video (one actually related to your minis)- but would you 'list' the minis you use in your campaigns and intro? Particularly brand and where you got them? That would be extremely useful. I am keen on looking for a few of the ones you have used. I know you have used a lot of Kingdom Death minis- but the actual mini name would be nice as well.
Keep up the great work! And thanks in advance!
It is sooo much fun to hear your players complain, and whine, when they can't outright kill their enemy... It is sooo much fun twisting the knife in their proverbial guts, dangling their enemy in sight, but they know they cannot touch them. Oh, the verbal digs fly, from both sides. It is epic fun for everyone. Then, when they finally put the rabid dog (per their view) down, it is oh-so-satisfying for them. Mine often cheer, out loud, yelling, "YES! Finally!" These are the memories they cherish for years to come.
This stuff makes DM'ing so much fun! Good-aligned PC's are much easier to taunt, and goad. Neutral, and evil players, generally find a stealth attack to dispose of the problem NPC's, and are not nearly as much fun to DM. YMMV. Cheers!
I love the idea of making a villain that physically no match for our band of intrepid heroes, but getting to him/her may not be so easy.
Yeah. It frustrates the hell out them!
I remember when I got out of the theater after watching Skyfall and wanted to play it as an RPG!
I’m doing an inverse on the knights of the round table being evil attempting to severe the connection between universes and merge them together crushing the blind eternities along with it. The pcs have been tasked to kill this group by a keeper of the balance who is secretly an eldrazi Titan in disguise. Along the way hey have had to deal with mages who worship said titans and create bubbles of time of perpetual suffering in order to create their own ascendant realms/ phylacteries. It’s very much a long term Mtg campaign based off the adventures of the gatewatch with a bit of a message on the nature of power and whether power is worth the pain it causes.
Sounds cool!
Once again thanks for some great idea's.
Great ideas!
Great video
For novices, I usually tell them to pick a book or movie they have seen or read quite a few times and mirror the plotline. For advance, know your Villian and the walls will come Who? What? How? When? Where and Why?. Write the villain out and the walls will come. Currently, My big baddy is a Doppelganger that is going to unite the lands under his rule. He sacked the Mayor of the largest city. He is trying to save his people as their lands have been ruined. But Doppler gangers are an evil sort of people, not trustworthy, and help is not offered. Of course, this isn't an original idea, this idea mostly comes from the Secret Wars by Marvel...a comic that I've read several times. Picking something you're familiar with allows focus on details. As always, the Devils in the Details. Yes, my adventures haggle for everything. Though really good for books, I've found time-sensitive campaigns backfire. At the start of the game, I'm quick to say this is a game, and there is a time limit on this game, I'm done in such ? hours. It tends to put pressure on the players to get a move on, sometimes I run electronic timer, so they can see the clock count down, if their a meandering sort, that plays on cell phones and likes searching for snacks, it's on them on what they did with their time. It puts the pressure back on the players to move the plot along.
Inspirational video.
LOL PALTROW SLAM IS THE BEST!
Goop!
I literally LOL'd at that one...both times I watched this video. Wife did, too. 🤣🤣🤣
Very good show
“Does this blacksmith have a better sword than I have?”
That’s not a question to the DM. That’s a question to be asked to the blacksmith.
The answer is always “yes”. A merchant is always willing to take money from potential customers. Look at the fine work on the hilt. The blacksmith is the best one from miles around and has much finer swords than the shabby one the player has.
I wouldn’t role play it out too much but I’m trying to get in the habit of not letting out information that would be better gained through an NPC.
Yeah I don't think any of those villains are quite up to Gwyneth Paltrow levels of evil.
Another good example of the onion is Baldurs Gate, the video game. Kobolds are causing trouble, you find their boss. He seems to be working for some other guy causing trouble in a forest. You track him down and he appears to be working for some bandit chief. You find him and he's working for some trade guild. You track them down and they seem to be the big bads, so you kill them, only to find the real big bad set you up. Then you spend a long time escaping a prison and tracking the big bad down. All the time, you kind of knew this big bad was out there due to the opening cut scene, but you did not know where he fits in with the plot. Baldurs Gate 2 always gets the credit, but the first game is almost a master class on how to set up a low level campaign.
If I have learned anything from you it's this, the villain doesn't have to be the BBEG. The Adventure I have my party on has 4 villains. One being a Coven of Hags who have been terrorizing a village for nigh on half a millennia, the village chieftain who wants to keep the fact that this was his ancestors fault a secret (Also the one that hired the group to deal with the hags), a tribe of bandits that live on the mountain by maintaining an accord with the hags, and finally a rival adventuring party looking to snipe the contract out from under them, led by a nasty ranger who's name happens to be Gerri the B****. 5, if you count the powerful Ice Demon the Hags draw their power from, and 6 if you count the treacherous mountain itself. Muhahahahahahahaha!!!
Sorry If I got a little too enthusiastic there. Needless to say my party is eating it up.
A little bit more relivant to the video itself I like the fact that you mentioned that Inquisitor Payne is not a cleric, I also assume he is no longer a Paladin. I always dislike seeing when an evil or corrupt clergymen can still cast divine magic. It just doesn't make sense, I mean don't they draw their power from a higher being? Sure maybe that being could be evil, but you'd expect that to have an affect on what powers the clergymen get's to begin with, not to mention the way it's church and teachings would assert themselves in the world. So if he indeed no longer has divine power that's a nice touch. I always feel like one should never assume that a clergymen is a full fledged cleric, or that someone with levels of cleric is a clergymen. I mean think Joan of Arc she would have been a Cleric or a Paladin, but was never a member of the clergy. Sure most Cleric characters SHOULD be clergymen it makes sense but clergymen should rarily be Clerics, and Cleric players should be able to find themselves at odds with the church itself quite often. Being just as likely to be burned at the stake as witches as slain by heathens.
Multiple fronts? I see someone has been reading Dungeon World!
I remember using the villain is not the BBEG trick. In Scion I had this group of bad guys collecting a death to all gods artifact. The players were scrambling to stop them. Meanwhile, a child of Loki was with them the whole time. He saved their asses, he provided them aid, his little poker circle gave them quests. In one case, he was family. They learned his hatred of the gods, how he wanted to get rid of all the gods. Sure enough, he was the bbeg of the game, and wanted to supplant the gods, seeing them as irrelevant and obsolete.
I even got to do a "join my side and rule the world alongside me" gimmick and it wasn't cheesy because he sincerely grew to care for them and wanted them, this was his family why not reward them?
The players surprised me by defeating him non-lethally. They stood against him but agreed with him. The gods had grown fat and lazy. It's just what he wanted would be too disruptive to earth. So they stopped him but made sure his punishment wasn't harsh.
@dungeoncraft
Professor,
Thank you for making this video, I found it very insightful. Your videos regarding the Caves Of Carnage are also useful but “Carnage” is a much different game than the “Baroness of Blood”.
The Carnage videos are wonderful insights on how to design encounters, maps, and world-building(I have not forgotten about Max Manheim), but Baroness (or whatever on Hammerstein’s title may be) seems to be for more developed player characters, ones who survive the meat grinder of early levels. Baroness is a long-term campaign. In order to unravel the mysteries of the Baroness game you need to keep the characters alive. How do you do that in the face of such perils as a fighter only having 10 hit points or a wizard having to worry whether or not his nest spell that he casts will melt off his face or turn his left leg into a tentacle?
How do you achieve this? Do you hive more leeway to your Baroness group than you do to the Carnage players? Or are your Baroness players just that good at surviving?
I understand that fudging die rolls in favor of the players is bad for business. It makes a GM look weak. If I were to do it, I would never admit to doing it because once the secret is out, the challenges of the game lose their threat.
Great vid
That was a truly thought provoking video. Hollywood should take a look at the unlimited possibilities for new villains gaining sympathy from the audience to some degree. Are you considering adding a clone channel on Bitchute?
Great episode. Could the wall be that the villain is too powerful for the PCs yet?
It's very difficult to build walls in games like D&D 5e where players are just too powerful. Sometimes I just don't present the real villain until the day they'll finally fight him.