I read 'King Leopold's Ghost' years and years ago and was horrified. And it was HIS land to do what he wanted. Anytime historians talk about it I always stop to listen - and I thank you for giving me a more complete view of everything.
As a Belgian, I’m happy that you opted this subject in your podcast. Too many people conflate Congo Free State with the Belgian colony. Leopold was such a monster, I lament his presence in certain Belgian public sites in terms of statues and name plaques.
Would you rather all controversial figures in history have their monuments torn down and trashed? And do you assume the figures you may like don't have their own closeted skeletons?
@@Dragblacker It's not like it's a single statue somewhere, Leopold has made sure he is omnipresent in Belgian urban spaces. Less of that would be better. I would also point out Germany as an example, they don't hide the darker pages of their history, yet there aren't any Hitler statues around.
@@Dragblackerall historical figures are controversial by modern standards. Some have more reedeeming values then negatives or were at least okay by the standards, but some figures are monsters even by the standards of their day. and - Leopold II is definitely amongst the latter, and should only be remembered as such and definitely not be celebrated
@@Dragblackerit would really depend on what the monument is trying to do, if it's to show the mistakes of the past or glorifying a perpetrator of genocide. But in all seriousness if you're trying to highlight the bad aspects of a dude giving him a 20 ft statue probably wouldn't be my choice.
@@YorkshireGaara Is there anything Leopold II did besides the Congo Free State, that people might want to commemorate him for? And this still applies to anyone else that society and "general consensus" currently calls "good", until they're suddenly not.
White king, red rubber, black death, Your empire rots with every breath. Innocence crushed beneath the wheel. The cries of millions, never healed. May your name be cursed, your soul condemned, For every life you stole, no mercy in the end.
If you are comfortable saying, What country did you go to school? It's very interesting how different countries teach their children history differently.
Thanks gentleman! I was so interested in this. I grew up in Rhodesia, and went to Sir Alfred Beit school. We all knew so much about Livingston, Stanley,Rhodes etc Infact we were, brought up ,more English than the English. At high school my tuck shop only sold English products. .Then I remember the Congo erupting, and a lot of the school girls flown down to my school. To board. I have a group of friends who all lived in Kinshasa and went to a Catholic school. They said it was the best education ever. Recently I have read a book tracing the foot steps of Stanley, and n one part on a motor bike, only way you can do it now. In a dark forest ,under leaves his foot hits something hard. He scrapes the leaves away to see they were railway tracks. He says it was like the Planet of the Apes. The realisation…That CIVILIZATION was here once! Please do Sir Richard Burton and his wife. Also Gertrude Bell. So love your history podcasts. Thanks.
Sir Roger Casement a knighted British Diplomat and one of the First Humanitarians did a written Report on Leopold II and the Congo and submitted it to the British Govt of the time, and the scandal broke of Leopold's inhumane behaviour with such vicious Slavery, in the British and Belgium Newspapers of the day. Sir Roger Casement also did a similar Report on Peru where the British Govt and British Companies in Peru were involved in similar inhumanities towards the people of Peru...but the Report was buried by the British Govt of the time. What Casement saw in Congo and Peru made him break with Empire....and given his birth place was Ireland 🇮🇪 he threw himself into the Irish Revolutionary War and became an Irish Rebel Fighter after retiring from the British Foreign Office 1913....his body was laid to rest in the Plot of Irish Martyrs 🇮🇪 in Glasnevin, Dublin, as the Irish never forget their own, 60 years after he was executed in a British prison as a traitor to the British Crown. He Rest in peace now.
You have deliberately twisted the facts about what actually happened to make a cheap shot at the British. Sir Roger Casement was sent by the British Government to carry out the report into the Peruvian Amazon Company after reports of abuses were raised. The PAC had been listed in London to get access to capital but was founded by and run by a Peruvian. The British Government published a Blue Book which contained Casement’s findings. This led to the creation of a select committee by the British Government and a change into the Slavery Bill to tighten up the control on the treatment of workers by transnational companies. So in summary, no the British Government was not involved in the abuses. The PAC had a British connection but was not a British company. The British Government certainly did not bury the report, instead they published it and acted on its findings to make better law to prevent further abuses going forward. As a final point, Casement was knighted by the British for his work in investigating the abuses in Peru.
@@CB-fz3li You beat me to this response. Glad I'm not the only one to have spotted this sleight of hand. They also sent Casement back to Peru to assess and report on the effectiveness of the reforms implemented in response to his original findings.
You guys should come visit Madagascar. French Colonial influences and France largely controls the political system. Much of Madagascar has more in common with Saxon England than 21st century. Although there are modern conveniences. It is a fantastically complex and interesting place.
The Congo was a gift that kept 'giving' to Belgium long after Leo was forced to behave. During the Great War, although Belgium was laregely occupied by Germany and large areas were devastated by the fighting, they continued to make money from the Congo - so much so that post-war, I believe that Belgium had actually done pretty well financially.
What a show! At the end they say members have access to all 3 shows but on RUclips only one is up, but on apple podcast all 3 are up. Do I have to have 2 memberships?
Yes this is the issue I have. I subscribe to podcast & I would switch to RUclips instead, but they take so long to edit & upload videos it hardly seems worth it.
I’m really glad you’re doing this topic but I also can’t listen to it. I know just enough about it to know I’d be sick to my stomach listening to what went on.
I listened to this podcast, Congo part one yesterday. As a new paid member( listening for a couple of years) I can’t seem to access part two part three. Any help?
Never read it. Not completely dissimilar is a famous movie called The African Queen. Bogart and Hepburn during WW1 make a harrowing journey down the river in Africa during WW1.
I'm not saying I dispute this episode at all (I am not enough across the facts to do so), but I think I heard Dominic say at the start of this podcast that there will be further discussion in another episode about those who refute some of the claims being made about, for one thing, Leopold's actions. That will be also interesting to listen to.
Let's consider what he, himself writes "The first and biggest deceit at the heart of King Leopold’s Ghost is the attempt to equate Léopold’s “État indépendant du Congo” or EIC (long mistranslated as the Congo Free State) with Western colonialism." His argument is that the atrocities committed by Leopold were indeed heinous, but, he claims, they occurred BECAUSE the Congo Free State was NOT a proper colony. Notice the slight of hand at play? Yes, it was bad, but it was bad because it was not PROPER colonialism? If only it had been proper colonialism then everything would have been a bed of roses for the Congolese? Seriously?
@@bolivar2153 He does make that distinction, but he also proves that the death toll is wildly overstated, intertribal conflict affected the rubber fields with deaths under 10 thousand, not the wild 10 million that is claimed, because of course Europeans bad. Congo was an economic drain, except for a short rubber boom, the primary reason the Belgians went up the Congo River was to stop the Arab Slave Trade lead by Timo Tip. I think a reevaluation of this history is sorely needed, lest we react with almost religious offence when it is suggested that colonialism often did very good things.
@ It’s interesting that you mention the death toll being ‘wildly overstated,’ but that claim is still actively debated by historians who have carefully analysed the available data. Regardless of the exact numbers, though, the important question remains: does the nature of Leopold's rule change based on debate over the death toll? Is the Holocaust somehow less horrific because there are debates over the numbers? At the end of the day, the human tragedy was devastating, and its magnitude can not, and should not be diminished by the debate over figures. While it’s true that intertribal conflict did play a role, that doesn’t absolve Leopold's regime of its direct involvement in the atrocities (and even here Gilley distinguishes between Leopold and Belgium, for which he deserves credit). These acts of brutality were systematically tied to the forced labour and exploitation imposed by the Congo Free State. Leopold's carefully cultivated image as the ‘benevolent saviour’ of the Congo, rescuing it from the Arab slave trade (a real issue, though often exaggerated or manipulated for his benefit), is a prime example of colonial propaganda. This narrative allowed him to justify his rule and secure international funding for his personal empire, all while deflecting attention from the enormous human cost of his exploitation. None of this excuses the violence, the forced labour, or the systemic cruelty inherent in Leopold's regime. Even if the ‘anti-slavery’ rhetoric was part of his wider agenda, it can never justify or legitimize the nature of the atrocities that unfolded under his rule. Maybe next you'll be citing Kipling's "The White Man's Burden" as a source?
What a creepy start to an historical tale. I wonder why the subjugation of the African people was so much more sadistic than anything Romans did, or even the European colonizers of the New World. The Romans always seemed to find the peoples they encountered human in some fundamental way. Do you think Leopold was influenced by the model of American and Caribbean slavery to think of Black people as unworthy of any rights and only good for brutal labor?
over time i have acquired a large portion of my Great Grandfather's (as well as his father's) library....avid readers i have Stanley's "In Darkest Africa" in two volumes (1890) as well as the map that was produced from his data the appendixes are full of native languages/translations...latitude and longitude of each camp + donors to the expedition....the expenses of the expedition i found them more interesting than his narrative i also have Livingstons book "Travels and Researches in South Africa" (1869) both primary source materials for turn of the century European/western studies of Africa
Henry Morton Stanley's books on Congo were, also in numerous international translations, a piece of early international disinformation falsely depicting the "noble" endevours not only of the humane king Leopold, but of those in the international Congo committees.
Comparing this to the Belt and Road is ridiculous. Especially when the British Empire and the US foreign policy over recent decades would be a far more accurate one.
Oh Boys you don’t think that European Civilisation Mentality has disappeared do you. ? Europe is a garden. We have built a garden. Everything works. It is the best combination of political freedom, economic prosperity and social cohesion that the humankind has been able to build - the three things together," Borrell said during the event. "The rest of the world," he went on, "is not exactly a garden. Most of the rest of the world is a jungle, and the jungle could invade the garden." Borrell then appeared to refer to EU ambassadors as "gardeners" and urged them to "go to the jungle," that is to carry out their diplomatic work around the world and advance the bloc's geopolitical agenda. "A nice small garden surrounded by high walls in order to prevent the jungle from coming in is not going to be a solution. Because the jungle has a strong growth capacity, and the wall will never be high enough in order to protect the garden," he said. "Europeans have to be much more engaged with the rest of the world. Otherwise, the rest of the world will invade us, by different ways and means." Josep Borrell apologises for controversial 'garden vs jungle' metaphor but defends speech
My undrstanding was the Belgins armed one of several warring tribes and gave them free rein to enslave and kill their ancestral enemies. Africans killing Africans as they had done forever. So there is plenty of blame to go around. These tribes had sold war captives and dissidents North into European slavery for 3000 years.
This is the wildest claim ever. The fact that something bad happened later doesn’t justify the bad shit done before. Do you not have any critical thinking abilities? Ah no, I forgot. You believe that black people deserve to be ruled by white people. Because that is what you’re saying essentially
Prof.Bruce Gilley debunks the popular accounts on Congo especially on Leopolds actual domain, the death toll significant contribution by the inter tribal wars that happened including tippu tip slavery savagery , British trade involvements and calls out the Ghost of Leopold factual errors
Classic whataboutism. So because atrocities were committed by natives, that somehow makes European colonialism and its associated atrocities acceptable? Intertribal warfare and Tippu Tip’s slave trade may have played roles in the Congo, but they don’t change the reality of what Leopold’s administration did. Bruce Gilley has an agenda - his career is built on a platform of whitewashing colonialism. His so-called ‘debunking’ of King Leopold’s Ghost isn’t just neutral scholarship; it’s historical revisionism dressed up as contrarianism. One of his tactics is to convince people that the atrocities in the Congo Free State happened because it wasn’t a European colony.
No mention of the fact the Leopold II was a Saxe-Coburg and his father would have been consort of Queen Charlotte I of Britain if she hadn't died folliowing the birth of a still born child in 1817? Leopold I was an arch-manipulator who helped set up the marriage between Queen Victoria (his niece) and Prince Albert (his nephew). He was also the grandson of a French king. If you are looking for psychological factors, this might be worth mentioning?
43:50 Like our innumerable letter agencies in America. USAID which doesn't even have the word aid in it somehow. Also Leopold reminds me of Richard Nixon.
Nice timing, they're at it again. If a country has "Democratic" in the name, it isn't. If it has "People's" in the name, you can infer that at most it's a handful of them.
Oh no! As soon as Dom mentioned sex at the beginning my thoughts went back to the Augustus, modern politician, and proceeded to go on about the emperors that followed Augustus and their perverted ways. Watching this with trepidation.
Very timely with this episode as at this moment in the United States, there’s tremendous controversy swirling around USAID, which is said to be involved in a lot of argy-bargy…
Not your first antisemitic post. First, an absurd, historical illiterate comment comparing Leopold to early Zionists. Second, a classic antisemitic trope presenting Jews as hook-nosed. Revealing that you've chosen to shoehorn Israel/Gaza into an entirely unrelated episode.
Okay well it literally takes like less than 10 minutes ( 9:28 ) for them to talk about slave labour being used by modern companies and comparing that with Leopold. So Paul, maybe don’t rush to conclusions?
Some English did this, therefore all the English did this (but not the Scots, Welsh or lrish) - thus runs your logic. What a loss to the world of philosophy you represent.
Yeah! And what about the [insert imperial country] in [insert invaded country]? They didn’t even mention the [insert atrocity committed by imperial country]. It’s a disgrace
Casual Dom in the hoodie... its like seeing a professor on weekend. I love it!
I read King leopolds ghost when you guys recommended a couple hundred episodes back. So glad you are given this the time it deserves.
I read 'King Leopold's Ghost' years and years ago and was horrified. And it was HIS land to do what he wanted. Anytime historians talk about it I always stop to listen - and I thank you for giving me a more complete view of everything.
Never learned about Leopold in school. Glad that this topic is covered here for everyone to discover.
Love how you two teleport around time and space in your subject matter. It’s so cool.
Combine that with the British accents and it’s basically Doctor Who lol
As a Belgian, I’m happy that you opted this subject in your podcast. Too many people conflate Congo Free State with the Belgian colony. Leopold was such a monster, I lament his presence in certain Belgian public sites in terms of statues and name plaques.
Would you rather all controversial figures in history have their monuments torn down and trashed? And do you assume the figures you may like don't have their own closeted skeletons?
@@Dragblacker It's not like it's a single statue somewhere, Leopold has made sure he is omnipresent in Belgian urban spaces. Less of that would be better.
I would also point out Germany as an example, they don't hide the darker pages of their history, yet there aren't any Hitler statues around.
@@Dragblackerall historical figures are controversial by modern standards. Some have more reedeeming values then negatives or were at least okay by the standards, but some figures are monsters even by the standards of their day. and - Leopold II is definitely amongst the latter, and should only be remembered as such and definitely not be celebrated
@@Dragblackerit would really depend on what the monument is trying to do, if it's to show the mistakes of the past or glorifying a perpetrator of genocide.
But in all seriousness if you're trying to highlight the bad aspects of a dude giving him a 20 ft statue probably wouldn't be my choice.
@@YorkshireGaara Is there anything Leopold II did besides the Congo Free State, that people might want to commemorate him for?
And this still applies to anyone else that society and "general consensus" currently calls "good", until they're suddenly not.
So happy to have just discovered this channel! This is incredible historic story telling, great job yall
White king, red rubber, black death,
Your empire rots with every breath.
Innocence crushed beneath the wheel.
The cries of millions, never healed.
May your name be cursed, your soul condemned,
For every life you stole, no mercy in the end.
This is a very under-reported bit of history. I was totally unaware of it in high school or college and only learned of it later through reading.
If you are comfortable saying, What country did you go to school? It's very interesting how different countries teach their children history differently.
Thanks gentleman! I was so interested in this. I grew up in Rhodesia, and went to Sir Alfred Beit school. We all knew so much about Livingston, Stanley,Rhodes etc Infact we were, brought up ,more English than the English. At high school my tuck shop only sold English products. .Then I remember the Congo erupting, and a lot of the school girls flown down to my school. To board. I have a group of friends who all lived in Kinshasa and went to a Catholic school. They said it was the best education ever. Recently I have read a book tracing the foot steps of Stanley, and n one part on a motor bike, only way you can do it now. In a dark forest ,under leaves his foot hits something hard. He scrapes the leaves away to see they were railway tracks. He says it was like the Planet of the Apes. The realisation…That CIVILIZATION was here once!
Please do Sir Richard Burton and his wife. Also Gertrude Bell. So love your history podcasts. Thanks.
Those are great topics, also an episode on Jane Digby would be tremendous
I saw this and rolled my eyes at first, like WE KNOW.
then I saw what channel it's on, and clicked enthusiastically.
Fantastic episode. Well done chaps.
Sir Roger Casement a knighted British Diplomat and one of the First Humanitarians did a written Report on Leopold II and the Congo and submitted it to the British Govt of the time,
and the scandal broke of Leopold's inhumane behaviour with such vicious Slavery, in the British and Belgium Newspapers of the day.
Sir Roger Casement also did a similar Report on Peru where the British Govt and British Companies in Peru were involved in similar inhumanities towards the people of Peru...but the Report was buried by the British Govt of the time.
What Casement saw in Congo and Peru made him break with Empire....and given his birth place was Ireland 🇮🇪 he threw himself into the Irish Revolutionary War and became an Irish Rebel Fighter after retiring from the British Foreign Office 1913....his body was laid to rest in the Plot of Irish Martyrs 🇮🇪 in Glasnevin, Dublin, as the Irish never forget their own,
60 years after he was executed in a British prison as a traitor to the British Crown.
He Rest in peace now.
You have deliberately twisted the facts about what actually happened to make a cheap shot at the British. Sir Roger Casement was sent by the British Government to carry out the report into the Peruvian Amazon Company after reports of abuses were raised. The PAC had been listed in London to get access to capital but was founded by and run by a Peruvian. The British Government published a Blue Book which contained Casement’s findings. This led to the creation of a select committee by the British Government and a change into the Slavery Bill to tighten up the control on the treatment of workers by transnational companies. So in summary, no the British Government was not involved in the abuses. The PAC had a British connection but was not a British company. The British Government certainly did not bury the report, instead they published it and acted on its findings to make better law to prevent further abuses going forward. As a final point, Casement was knighted by the British for his work in investigating the abuses in Peru.
@@CB-fz3li You beat me to this response. Glad I'm not the only one to have spotted this sleight of hand.
They also sent Casement back to Peru to assess and report on the effectiveness of the reforms implemented in response to his original findings.
Great timing! Just watched "Soundtrack to a Coup d'Etat" at the cinema yesterday. Highly recommend it as a companion piece.
Love the work you guys do. Thanks.
This is truly one of the most meaningless and dark chapters in human history…
You guys should come visit Madagascar. French Colonial influences and France largely controls the political system. Much of Madagascar has more in common with Saxon England than 21st century. Although there are modern conveniences. It is a fantastically complex and interesting place.
The Congo was a gift that kept 'giving' to Belgium long after Leo was forced to behave. During the Great War, although Belgium was laregely occupied by Germany and large areas were devastated by the fighting, they continued to make money from the Congo - so much so that post-war, I believe that Belgium had actually done pretty well financially.
Good information on Leo, never knew much about the history of Belgium
The way you educate us is riveting and shocking.
Thank you for covering this... very painful to listen to but so important
What a show! At the end they say members have access to all 3 shows but on RUclips only one is up, but on apple podcast all 3 are up. Do I have to have 2 memberships?
Yes this is the issue I have. I subscribe to podcast & I would switch to RUclips instead, but they take so long to edit & upload videos it hardly seems worth it.
No wonder Leopold married Marie Henrietta, her nose is bigger than his. Kissing must have been like duelists with sharpened rapiers.
Interesting. Thank you
I’m really glad you’re doing this topic but I also can’t listen to it. I know just enough about it to know I’d be sick to my stomach listening to what went on.
Please do Sir Richard Burton.
Great one!!! One thought…. A fish eye lens incorporated?😊
I listened to this podcast, Congo part one yesterday.
As a new paid member( listening for a couple of years) I can’t seem to access part two part three. Any help?
Never read it. Not completely dissimilar is a famous movie called The African Queen. Bogart and Hepburn during WW1 make a harrowing journey down the river in Africa during WW1.
Also not completely dissimilar is a famous movie called The Big Sleep in which Humphrey Bogart plays a character called Marlowe.
Joseph Conrad is my favorite author. Keep in mind, English is his second language.
Not sure it was even his second one.
It's an amazing book and beautifully written, he used the English language brilliantly.
@@bearhustler- I rather think his editor had a major influence on the language.
We know.
People, companies and nations still scrambling for the resources of the Congo today
I'm not saying I dispute this episode at all (I am not enough across the facts to do so), but I think I heard Dominic say at the start of this podcast that there will be further discussion in another episode about those who refute some of the claims being made about, for one thing, Leopold's actions. That will be also interesting to listen to.
Sadly,a lot of Danes were part of the colonisation of the Congo Free State. Not our proudest moment now, though it was then.
How often does Dominic get mistaken for Dara Ó Briain?
Listen and/or read Dr. Bruce Gilly who says that "Leopold's Ghost" is at best historical fiction, in reality is a hit piece on European civilization.
Let's consider what he, himself writes "The first and biggest deceit at the heart of King Leopold’s Ghost is the attempt to equate Léopold’s “État indépendant du Congo” or EIC (long mistranslated as the Congo Free State) with Western colonialism." His argument is that the atrocities committed by Leopold were indeed heinous, but, he claims, they occurred BECAUSE the Congo Free State was NOT a proper colony. Notice the slight of hand at play? Yes, it was bad, but it was bad because it was not PROPER colonialism? If only it had been proper colonialism then everything would have been a bed of roses for the Congolese? Seriously?
@@bolivar2153 He does make that distinction, but he also proves that the death toll is wildly overstated, intertribal conflict affected the rubber fields with deaths under 10 thousand, not the wild 10 million that is claimed, because of course Europeans bad. Congo was an economic drain, except for a short rubber boom, the primary reason the Belgians went up the Congo River was to stop the Arab Slave Trade lead by Timo Tip. I think a reevaluation of this history is sorely needed, lest we react with almost religious offence when it is suggested that colonialism often did very good things.
@ It’s interesting that you mention the death toll being ‘wildly overstated,’ but that claim is still actively debated by historians who have carefully analysed the available data. Regardless of the exact numbers, though, the important question remains: does the nature of Leopold's rule change based on debate over the death toll? Is the Holocaust somehow less horrific because there are debates over the numbers? At the end of the day, the human tragedy was devastating, and its magnitude can not, and should not be diminished by the debate over figures.
While it’s true that intertribal conflict did play a role, that doesn’t absolve Leopold's regime of its direct involvement in the atrocities (and even here Gilley distinguishes between Leopold and Belgium, for which he deserves credit). These acts of brutality were systematically tied to the forced labour and exploitation imposed by the Congo Free State.
Leopold's carefully cultivated image as the ‘benevolent saviour’ of the Congo, rescuing it from the Arab slave trade (a real issue, though often exaggerated or manipulated for his benefit), is a prime example of colonial propaganda. This narrative allowed him to justify his rule and secure international funding for his personal empire, all while deflecting attention from the enormous human cost of his exploitation.
None of this excuses the violence, the forced labour, or the systemic cruelty inherent in Leopold's regime. Even if the ‘anti-slavery’ rhetoric was part of his wider agenda, it can never justify or legitimize the nature of the atrocities that unfolded under his rule.
Maybe next you'll be citing Kipling's "The White Man's Burden" as a source?
What a creepy start to an historical tale. I wonder why the subjugation of the African people was so much more sadistic than anything Romans did, or even the European colonizers of the New World. The Romans always seemed to find the peoples they encountered human in some fundamental way. Do you think Leopold was influenced by the model of American and Caribbean slavery to think of Black people as unworthy of any rights and only good for brutal labor?
Possibly. We know that Hitler cited Henry Ford's antisemitic ravings.
over time i have acquired a large portion of my Great Grandfather's (as well as his father's) library....avid readers
i have Stanley's "In Darkest Africa" in two volumes (1890) as well as the map that was produced from his data
the appendixes are full of native languages/translations...latitude and longitude of each camp + donors to the expedition....the expenses of the expedition
i found them more interesting than his narrative
i also have Livingstons book "Travels and Researches in South Africa" (1869)
both primary source materials for turn of the century European/western studies of Africa
Henry Morton Stanley's books on Congo were, also in numerous international translations, a piece of early international disinformation falsely depicting the "noble" endevours not only of the humane king Leopold, but of those in the international Congo committees.
Stanley worked for Leopold, so unsurprising.
Comparing this to the Belt and Road is ridiculous. Especially when the British Empire and the US foreign policy over recent decades would be a far more accurate one.
Yes i must watch this
Vulpine 😀 Good word !!
Comparing it to the belt & road is a bit harsh I would say.
"The horror. THE HORROR!"
Everyone! Stop what you're doing! They've posted a new video! 😲🌞
Oh Boys you don’t think that European Civilisation Mentality has disappeared do you. ?
Europe is a garden. We have built a garden. Everything works. It is the best combination of political freedom, economic prosperity and social cohesion that the humankind has been able to build - the three things together," Borrell said during the event.
"The rest of the world," he went on, "is not exactly a garden. Most of the rest of the world is a jungle, and the jungle could invade the garden."
Borrell then appeared to refer to EU ambassadors as "gardeners" and urged them to "go to the jungle," that is to carry out their diplomatic work around the world and advance the bloc's geopolitical agenda.
"A nice small garden surrounded by high walls in order to prevent the jungle from coming in is not going to be a solution. Because the jungle has a strong growth capacity, and the wall will never be high enough in order to protect the garden," he said.
"Europeans have to be much more engaged with the rest of the world. Otherwise, the rest of the world will invade us, by different ways and means."
Josep Borrell apologises for controversial 'garden vs jungle' metaphor but defends speech
My undrstanding was the Belgins armed one of several warring tribes and gave them free rein to enslave and kill their ancestral enemies. Africans killing Africans as they had done forever. So there is plenty of blame to go around. These tribes had sold war captives and dissidents North into European slavery for 3000 years.
What were leopold's (based on the very old name luitpold) opinion on his possession 🤔...
Was it Staleys party that a heir to the Jameson whisky fortune joined and subsequently died on?
Marie-Henriette looks like Wilfred Bramble
And since colonialism has left the Congo,it has shown even worse horrors in its civil wars. South Africa has done the same.
This is the wildest claim ever. The fact that something bad happened later doesn’t justify the bad shit done before. Do you not have any critical thinking abilities? Ah no, I forgot. You believe that black people deserve to be ruled by white people. Because that is what you’re saying essentially
Prof.Bruce Gilley debunks the popular accounts on Congo especially on Leopolds actual domain, the death toll significant contribution by the inter tribal wars that happened including tippu tip slavery savagery , British trade involvements and calls out the Ghost of Leopold factual errors
Classic whataboutism.
So because atrocities were committed by natives, that somehow makes European colonialism and its associated atrocities acceptable?
Intertribal warfare and Tippu Tip’s slave trade may have played roles in the Congo, but they don’t change the reality of what Leopold’s administration did. Bruce Gilley has an agenda - his career is built on a platform of whitewashing colonialism. His so-called ‘debunking’ of King Leopold’s Ghost isn’t just neutral scholarship; it’s historical revisionism dressed up as contrarianism.
One of his tactics is to convince people that the atrocities in the Congo Free State happened because it wasn’t a European colony.
No mention of the fact the Leopold II was a Saxe-Coburg and his father would have been consort of Queen Charlotte I of Britain if she hadn't died folliowing the birth of a still born child in 1817? Leopold I was an arch-manipulator who helped set up the marriage between Queen Victoria (his niece) and Prince Albert (his nephew). He was also the grandson of a French king. If you are looking for psychological factors, this might be worth mentioning?
I guess you could say cobalt is the new ivory
Lol. Of course, Bismarck saw right through Leopold's smokescreen.
I suppose this is the time when Tarzan was doing his thing
Tarzan is set at least 20-30 years later.
congo is so large there were likely many kingdoms
What could go wrong go in the Congo
Another ripping yarn, albeit terrible. Thank you, again.
The Duchess Henriette looks 16 going on 60 😂
I had a pair of ivory dice that a ww1 soldier had carved .. i got them on fb market place lol... they got lost when we moved😭
43:50 Like our innumerable letter agencies in America. USAID which doesn't even have the word aid in it somehow. Also Leopold reminds me of Richard Nixon.
Nice timing, they're at it again.
If a country has "Democratic" in the name, it isn't.
If it has "People's" in the name, you can infer that at most it's a handful of them.
Wow. Leopold. What a git.
If by "Diversity and Joy" you mean Groupthink and thought policing by the Tech Companies, then yeah the man with glasses gets it right.
Oh no! As soon as Dom mentioned sex at the beginning my thoughts went back to the Augustus, modern politician, and proceeded to go on about the emperors that followed Augustus and their perverted ways. Watching this with trepidation.
International African Association Smacks of the East India company
Bring back zaire
Leopold was a lot like Musk!
Was he South African?
👍
Crack on lad's!!!!
Very timely with this episode as at this moment in the United States, there’s tremendous controversy swirling around USAID, which is said to be involved in a lot of argy-bargy…
😇🩵🙏🙌
english guilt
Reminded of Scrooge/Trump/Leopold take your pick 😮
When a man named "D'Israeli" says you have a big nose, it must really be something impressive.
Not your first antisemitic post. First, an absurd, historical illiterate comment comparing Leopold to early Zionists. Second, a classic antisemitic trope presenting Jews as hook-nosed. Revealing that you've chosen to shoehorn Israel/Gaza into an entirely unrelated episode.
You tell him and I love your tiny hat.@@jasongray4517
HM Stanley..a sort of proto Donald Trump The Art Of The Steal
Stanley was flawed like we all are, but was also an incredible journo and humanist. His exploration books are free online and well worth a read.
what's with the random zoom/cropping??
What would one expect from francophone rulers?
USAID comes to mind. Sounds like a fucking charity instead of an arm of the CIA
It was a mistake for Britain to let foreigners take land in Africa
As I listen I get the impression you guys think slavery, slave labor, etc. no longer exist
Billions die every five minutes.
Not state sponsored and sanctioned systematic mass enslavement.
Okay well it literally takes like less than 10 minutes ( 9:28 ) for them to talk about slave labour being used by modern companies and comparing that with Leopold.
So Paul, maybe don’t rush to conclusions?
I think they're well aware, but slavery and slave labour no longer legally exist.
Tom also agrees with covering up mass crimes against young British girls, he suffers from a severe case of liberal metropolitan delusion.
The English pouring calumny & abuse upon the heads of Leopold !?…You basically annihilated the entire population of Van Diemen’s Land !…
What a bizarre comment . Hope you get help buddy 😂
Some English did this, therefore all the English did this (but not the Scots, Welsh or lrish) - thus runs your logic. What a loss to the world of philosophy you represent.
You are all a bunch of hypocrites, what about the British in Peru???
British? Peru?
Thats a different subject, theres no obligation to offset everything with oh britain did this too, get a grip
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Yeah well, what about the Peruvians in Britain?!
Coming over here, eating all our marmalade.
Yeah! And what about the [insert imperial country] in [insert invaded country]? They didn’t even mention the [insert atrocity committed by imperial country]. It’s a disgrace