what if parking is relaxed and you have blue badge while parked on double yellow lines, would it be reasonable for the blue badge timer to be also relaxed. the council has confirmed relaxed rules but not stateded any specific info about the meaaning of relaxed. i am arguing that if rules are relaxed that would inclued time limits being one of the relaxed rules as it has never been stated other wise and as such the ticket (pcn) for being over my time limit on the blue badge clock shouldn't be enforced and it is out side my home i have parked there for meany years with no isses until past few years.
I once got a parking ticket in the time it took to walk from the car to the ticket machine to buy the pay and display ticket and walk back. It came back via collections etc to me several times over the next year or three (US experience). In the case discussed here, one dynamic must be the 3-4 minutes it takes to read the sign. Assuming you don't block the entrance to the car park to awkwardly read the sign, you might reasonably stop in a parking bay, exit the car, walk to read the sign, reread to make sure you understood it, decide not to park, walk back to the car and then leave the lot. That's perhaps 5-10 minutes which you clearly have not agreed to park [I would have thought the definition of Leaving per the cited case might reasonably include "leaving the parking lot" on foot]
I frequently see Recovery Agents ('bailiffs'), CEOs, and contractors applying DVLA wheel clamps around the area - they are almost all without exception stopped on double yellow lines whilst they conduct their business. Ironic really.
It's maddening that a parking company can consider you stopping inside your vehicle as entering into a contract when those contract terms are not clearly visible from within your vehicle.
And if you 'leave' your car to read those terms, you have 'parked' without accepting the contract... Interesting how the old appeal specifically refers to taking a ticket 'in order to obtain permission to park' rather than just driving past an anpr camera
@@contactjd If you leave the car to read the contract and decide you don't agree with it and return to your car and drive out; then you were probably parked, but they can't rely on contract law to claim the parking charges. They would have to go with tresspass which would get them nominal damages at best.
That's not true. The law is on your side (even though the parking companies would have you believe otherwise). You cannot become bound by terms that you have not had a chance to become acquainted with. Typically, this results in making sure that a parking sign is clearly noticeable when driving past, e.g. "PARKING RESTRICTIONS APPLY" and allowing a grace period after parking to go and read the sign to become familiar with the small print and decide to agree and stay or disagree and leave. Absent that, no contract could be formed and no charge for breach could be levied.
lets just hope there are no traffic jams or red lights on those roads with "waiting restrcitions" as the double yellow goes fromt the central markings to the roadside.
I got a "parking penalty from the Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea whilst parked next to a street pay parking meter in a "pay & display" parking bay. I had bought a ticket from said parking ticket machine, the ticket was placed face up on the drivers side dash as instructed and it was still valid for 17 mins at the time my vehicle was issued with a parking contravention notice. The penalty letter dually arrived c/w the "Photo" of the breach of parking rules. In the photo the ticket was correctly positioned on the drivers side dash and clearly readable. It took about 3 attempts to convince the Parling enforcement that the vehicle was legally parked but even then they deemed it necessary to issue a formal warning.
When their own photo, PROVES you to be entirely in the right, and them to be entirely in the wrong, then I'd be giving THEM a "formal warning" that they were apparently deliberately attempting to get money through fraud ! (I'm not a lawyer, just an unemployed bum from Noo Zeelind (LOL).
From the wording of that parking sign, if you enter the carpark and drive around it looking for a spot to park but it's full so you then leave, you are still liable for the parking notice just by being at the site for a period of time! And what is a period of time according to the laws? A second is a period of time! If there is no minimum time specified what would count as a reasonable period of time?
That would be an unfair contract term surely? The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 [is retained EU law so I think it might have been updated in some way] Schedule 2 1 (d). In a situation where they didn't provide the parking service you agreed to pay for, they can't ask you to pay for the parking charge.
I would agree, if they can't provide a service (a parking location) they are in breach of contract for failing to provide a service for you to park. Also an hour is a period of time does that mean you get an hour to find a place to park, a silly term if you ask me. The car park in town when there is a complex with multiple shops give you about 10 mins grace. Handy when you can drive in pick someone up and drive out through the barrier with no charge, a very sensible solution.
@@tazz1669 10 minutes grace can be enough in most cases but what if a multi-story carpark is full but somehow you still got in, driving slowly round the levels to try to find a spot then give up. You are now charged for driving around and not parking because you took longer than the 10 minutes grace period. The fairer carparks are the ones that let you pay up front, but they need officers to walk round checking the vehicles have a ticket and if it's expired or not. Extra expense to the carpark operators which raises the parking costs to the users. But, my point with asking what defines a period is that often in videos like this you are just told "a period of time". Of course giving 1 second as an example is just me being silly knowing it has to be a lot longer than that, but a second is still a period of time. A silly extreme to highlight the silliness of the phrase. In almost all cases though, the signage will specify the period because without that information they can not legally expect to be able to say someone knowingly exceeded that period if that someone does not know what it is.
The consideration period before parking was 10 minutes but has now been reduced to 5 minutes in both the BPA and IPC (Private Parking Trade Associations) Codes of Practice.
@@bryanmills3139 A driver rushing round a carpark: "Brenda, keep an eye out for a parking spot! We only have 5 minutes to find one or we pay even if we don't find one!". Sounds like a joke but could be a reality that can cause accidents. Drivers fixated on finding a spot in time and not paying full attention to other things like pedestrians. Totally dumb to reduce that grace period.
Where I live, probably 95% of double-yellow line violations go unpunished, for 2 main reasons - sparsity of traffic wardens/CEOs, and lines that are either broken, or have almost worn away to nothing. I'm not sure, but I've always believed that yellow lines have to be clear, complete, and continuous to be legal? But that's another story...
Unless you have a private parking scumpany on a technicality where they haven't complied with the law there is no point appealing as they will instantly refuse any and all appeals without even reading them all they want is your money
Charging an electric car in a free car park with time restrictions is not Parking. However ParkingEye will issue a PCN through the post. Even though you have paid the charge point operator for the electricity consumed. The worst is Tesco with a 15 time restriction outside of shop hours. £100 charge. Aldi £70. Don’t even think about returning because you have forgotten something because there’s no return within 4 hours. 😢
In NZ I patrol several car parks that have Electric vehicle charging points. The charging points are covered by a time restriction. Any vehicle EV or ICE is limited by the time limit stated P120 in this instance, and the legislation and signage indicate that these parking spaces must only be used for the purpose of charging. Any ICE vehicle seen parked is liable for an infringement notice, any EV not plugged in is currently being issued a warning notice to educate the driver.
I had this but they waived it. I spoke to the store manager and showed him the receipt and just by the time it took me to get to his office, he realised my disabilities (I have a badge.) He contacted the parking people and supported my appeal. I can only do a shop at my speed, which is slow with breaks 😂. Even Aldi staff help me with packing and putting in my car or a kind person helps. I don't shop in busy hours.
@@deborahosborne9426good point to raise. The stores generally have some say in the parking charges, so if you can show a receipt or some other reasonable reason. They want customers in the door, and don't want bad pr. It's the parking companies whose business is based on ticketing people. The store I worked at only got it because commuters were using the car park.
Worse around some estates so many cars parked up on the pavements that u are forced to walk on the roads cause theres no room for you to walk on the designated pedestrian sidewalk
Would a vehicle still be considered parked if it was broken down, or otherwise not able to move? For example, coming back to your car in a carpark with a flat battery, and overstaying whilst waiting for assistance. Or being unable to exit due to standstill traffic etc? I would assume that once you return to the vehicle, it is nolonger being left, so any period of parking has ended?
You can't help emergencies, and it can be a defence. However time can also be an issue say you pulled over onto the side of the road to answer the phone and there was double yellows, like in the video. The correct thing to do is to answer and respond "Sorry, I am driving at the moment. Could you call me back after 5 minute to let me park." Before finding somewhere legal to park. There is no rule agains temporarily stopping, only waiting and parking. Same could be said about picking someone up or dropping them up. If you are early park legally before traveling there at the point you need. Parking inforcement won't care if the need to stop is for a few seconds as it would be the same if there was stop-start traffic.
@@Sam-wx1ojIf on double yellow lines etc, I assume that you would be having a conversation with a traffic warden/police etc. And common sense would be applied. But in a carpark with ANPR and an automated charge notice system, you could well end up arguing the case. I know someone who got caught out this way, after limping his car off a busy motorway and into the services.
There was a sad story local to me about over 80 year old man trying to post a letter, there was no spaces he could use as he had difficulty walking and he stopped handed the letter to someone who posted it. He was there for 1 minute 15 seconds but fot fined £180, sadly he paid it because he was scared into paying. This was private property outside a shopping area. Question can he get it back? Imo he has many grounds to argue it was completely unjustified. If he cant whats to stop someone intentionally throwing out invalid fines and instantly accepting appeals but profiting from the vulnerable who pay it out of fear?
I have fought and won a wrongful parking violation here in the US. I emailed a long explanation, with times posted and my explanation of why I believed the parking meter man had erred. I caught him writing it and he was very rude. It was a 45 minute zone and I had only been there for about 20 minutes. Anyway it is likely to succeed here, if you are very polite, yet very wordy, and describe how the fine is wrongful. The older man’s should describe his infirmity etc…mention if he is a war veteran, just throw everything at them but politely.
@@Nikalette100 yeah unfortunately as he has paid it already I'm not sure what he can do cause, if he has no legal resource and they were harsh enough to fine him in first place I doubt they will refund out of goodwill only, in most cases a wordy and police email works because they know you can legally challenge it so they may as well give up now
I am currently appealing a penalty charge notice. It came through the post and the evidence was a photograph of an empty road. I.e. no evidence of an offence, it is now at adjudication as the appeal to the council was rejected partly as "we do not need photographic evidence". The section 9 was not served as the CEO was some distance away and I drove off as my passenger had got in. Is eyewitness testimony all that is needed for a section 10?
@blackbetbarrister can I ask is there some official rules and marking out disabled bays, extra space, times allowed for exiting / getting back into vehicles with wheelchair etc. and signage. As sure one car park did not meat standards but unsure where to confirm
It's understandable to halt a vehicle on the open road for a short time while you are driving, but if you drive into a car park and stop driving, you intend to use that property for purposes not related to an act of driving the car. I think this precedent is open to challenge.
I guess Ashby vTolhurst comes into play for a Parking Charge Notice (which relates to a contract to PARK, which you may not have done if you didn't "leave you car in that place") but not for local authority Penalty Charge Notices which often relate to on-street parking where there are waiting restrictions in the form of yellow lines. You may perhaps be able to use Ashby v Tolhurst in a council-operated car park, in which there is only ever mention of parking, and not waiting. Hands up who fancies trying that one first, and create some modern case law :)
The landowner contract for Lewes Eastgate Wharf states: 11. When PCNs will not be issued. The following vehicles shall not be issued with a PCN under any circumstances. v) Vehicles where the driver is present with the engine running. (For up to 15 minutes only). The landowner contract is between One Parking Solution and a director of One Parking Solution. The District Judge said this was ‘suspiciously bizarre’.
There are important exceptions where the driver is or is conveying a Blue Badge holder. In most places, a vehicle conveying a blue badge holder may lawfully stop on single and double yellow lines unless the vehicle is causing an unnecessary obstruction and the blue badge (and if required) the timer disk is displayed. Where the kerbstones also have yellow lines (denoting no loading) then the blue badge concession no longer applies. I believe that I am also correct in saying that a driver performing a task on behalf of the blue badge holder may use the blue badge as if the holder were present. Note also that in London, some RedRoute Loading bays are also denoted as blue badge holder bays and any restriction to this concession must be clearly signed and included in Evidence in Chief (i,e, collected contemporaneously at the time of the alleged offence) and failure to include such evidence at that time makes its subsequent inclusion unlawful and inadmissible.
Thanks for this video. OPS attempted to charge an ambulance for stopping at a care home and because the driver accompanied the elderly patient inside they deemed it was parked. I felt they were being disingenuous - this judgement which predates the case I dealt with gives just that example to them. I sent them an invoice for preparation time defending the case as they required me to get the SCAS (ambulance) scheduling system print out after my first communication with them that told them it was an ambulance & not parked and that any further emails required by them from me were £100+VAT. Would I exasperate the judge further if I used his judgement to sue OPS for my fees??
@BlackBeltBarrister, what do you do if the parking company ignores your appeal and the next thing you hear about the Parking Charge Notice is from a debt collection agency?
With reference to yellow lines, with the exception of being a blue badge holder. Whilst i have nothing against blue badge holders and have family members who have them, i agree they should be able to wait but only if it is safe. Many people around the city use their blue badge as permission to park where ever they wish, even if it is not safe to do so e.g. on the corner of a , junction, on the zigzags at crossings, causing an obstruction to the flow of traffic on a busy road etc
Well they already can't park on ZigZags: www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-blue-badge-scheme-rights-and-responsibilities-in-england/the-blue-badge-scheme-rights-and-responsibilities-in-england#places-where-you-cannot-park should be able to report that to council.
So on the basis of that landmark case of Ashby V Tolhurst 1000s of truckers who "park" overnight at service stations on motorways should not be charged as they don't leave their vehicles, they are not "PARKED" !
Too many motorists think yellow lines are just pretty road decorations meant for other people and if they put hazard lights on, they can stop where they want.
In December 2022,I parked at a hospital as my husband was very ill and sadly passed away,I received a parking fine,I appealed and was sent a letter that at this time they parking co would not pursue ,but don’t do it again,words to that effect,now out of the blue in February 2024 I have had a letter from a bailiffs office for £170 ,I am gob smacked ,I have lost the original letter of no further action.i am at the moment waiting to be taken to court regarding the fine in 2022,I will have to answer to the court order when it arrives as I have not got that sort of money. So I don’t know what way it will go but hopefully I will be able to set a payment plan up . But I am very upset,I can’t understand why after almost 2yrs the parking company have decided to do this.i was so upset at the time of my husband’s Death I didn’t notice that although it was a hospital car park that I was parked illegally.its a nightmare.
@@GodMother. UPDATE N C P PARKING, WROTE TO THEM WHAT FOLLOWS THE RESPONSES I RECEIVED Customer Services,Reply THIS IS NOT MANNED they gave mean other email link,Reply THIS IS NOT MANNED , I TRIED EVERY SINGLE EMAIL Same response or similar. I am at a loss and don’t even have an address to write to, WHEN I PHONED N C P TELEPHONE NUMBER NO REPLY. The letters I am receiving are coming from Bailiff’s Who are stating NCP ARE THEIR CLIENTS.And they are advising them to take me to Court.Any advice I would appreciate it if you could I don’t know where to turn. Thank you in advance.
I'd have thought the word 'leaving' was ambiguous in the original judgement. Does it mean 'leaving the car' - i.e. getting out after stopping? Or could it just mean not moving it - while still inside?
My biggest irk regarding parking is people who don't have a blue badge parking in blue badge bays. If a blue badge holder parks somewhere they shouldn't they can get a £1000 fine but if a non badge holder parks in a blue badge bay they get zero fines.
@@melissa-hadfield Agreed BUT There's a growth industry amongst some communities of using someone else's (usually Ganny's) 'Blue Badge' and sharing it at least around the family. Its endemic
If she was stopped with the engine on and not parked if she is taking a call on her mobile phone is that not an offence then for using a hand held mobile device?
Good content as ever. Interesting to see the case here and also interesting to note the parking compnay doesn't seem to own the land, just controls the spaces. If not in a space you also seemingly cannot be in contract with the company. You didn't cover this aspect, Daniel. Is it relevant here?
Clarity needed at 26:09 I think Daniel. It could be interpreted that the loading restrictions apply to stopping while passengers board or alight, which would be a mistaken interpretation.
Good, video and really useful information. Hopefully the judges will start taking these cowboy parking companies to task and start prosecuting them for trying to dupe innocent motorists and wasting the courts time in the process......?
If user is waiting I would argue they are still in control of the vehicle and therefore would be a seperate offence using the mobile, rather than being parked
He's covered that in previous videos, & the answer is "it depends". Becomes a matter of fact which the court rules on as to if you're driving or not, assuming they're dealing with a charge of phone use. I'd imagine stopped within a bay, off the road through a car park, with the vehicle in neutral & handbrake set, wouldn't be considered driving, since you're clearly not doing so. It's a very different situation to just stopped in traffic. If there's an offence here it might be unnecessary idling, & not even that if there's a reason to idle such as keeping the climate control active so the windows don't steam up, or you don't freeze, when it ceases to be "unnecessary".
Not in the case of the woman referred to here. The prohibition is on holding the phone while driving on a road, she's in a car park. There's a potential conflict though in other cases if arguing that you aren't parked on a road while hand-holding your phone. They could get you on one... or the other (or both, if parking contrary to yellow lines implies not being safely parked).!
Surely the difference between stopping and parking are already defined in law. If there are double yellow lines then you aren’t allowed to wait but you can stop, if you’re on an urban clearway you’re allowed to stop to let people out of the car. Why can’t these examples be used in discussions with private parking companies? After all road traffic legislation applies on public accessible car parks.
Wirral council have put up signs stating "No Motor Caravans from 8pm to 8am" Are signs like this allowed and legal as cars, buses and HGV's can park at any time. Surly you cannot discriminate against a particular type of vehicle on a public highway. Thanks for the great videos.
Since it's its own taxation class with the DVLA, yes such a restriction can be legal exactly the same as restricting busses, coaches, or HGVs would be. If you couldn't make such restrictions (either allowing or disallowing), you couldn't create bus lanes.
Sometimes people in motor-caravan type vehicles are living in them full time, ie otherwise homeless. Governments around the world are criminalising being poor, so as to be able to sink the boot into homeless people, a little bit easier. The New Zealand government has just changed the laws so that from next year, smaller cheaper motorcaravans, (generally cost $3,000 to $15,000. Often based on a Toyota Estima mini-van) even those fully equipped with approved toilets, will no longer qualify. But caravans and motorcaravans in the $50,000 and above price range almost always qualify under the new rules. This is because only wealthy folks are allowed to enjoy cheap holidays and visit places around the country. Poor peasants should be staying at home (Apparently !)
The solution to this is to have a van converted. DVLA will almost always reject an application to change the status to motorhome so the council's restrictions cannot apply. On the other hand, there are other restrictions on vans which do not apply to motorhomes but, as long as you have made the application for change of status, those restrictions may not apply when using the vehicle as a motorhome. Best of both worlds?😊
Sooooo IF the traffic grinds to a halt AND there are double yellow lines None of the exemptions listed apply and *THEN you have 'waited' and some Jobsworth Money Shark can pounce on you* ! Just because its insane doesn't mean SOME councils won't try it 😋
If you have to wonder if it's parking or stopping it's already quite crazy. I mean, how quickly are they writing a ticket ? Are they like standing there waiting and as soon as you stop they start writing? I really get the feeling England is not a country where I would want to live.
I sometimes do food delivery work, and a while ago I stopped in Chinatown in Newcastle to pick up an order. When I arrived outside, there was a ticket guy there. He said I couldn’t park there, I said I was collecting an order. He said I couldn’t do that, I showed him the Newcastle council page which states you can load your car on yellow lines with items or passenger. This is the exact text from their website: “Loading and unloading is permitted on single or double yellow lines providing there are no markings on the kerb side. A Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) will need to observe loading and unloading take place. If no loading/unloading is seen a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) may be issued” He still said I couldn’t so I just said okay then and went to collect my order. I was literally in and out of the store within 30 seconds, and he didn’t have time to write the ticket so they sent it in the post instead. I appealed and they denied the appeal so I said okay let’s go to court then and the council then backed down. What a bunch of bullies they are.
@@Drenwickification honestly I don't think they're going to consider picking up a takeaway as loading or unloading. I think you're wasting your time and money pursuing an appeal in such circumstances. Sometimes you just have to accept it and move on instead of letting it eat you up.
They are. I got a ticket years ago after finding a gap the council has missed putting a yellow line on. I came back to a ticket. This was years before camera phones - so the council came and painted a yellow line there after the event and denied that there was no yellow line…, but I had been sneaky and taken a Polaroid off the spot 👌 they lost…
This CCJ was successfully appealed by One Parking Ltd, with the defendant ordered to pay over £3,700 to One Parking Solutions Ltd. There is an article about it in the local paper (The Argus) from June 2021. From the article: At the appeal hearing, Judge Simpkiss said: "In this case the defendant drove into a designated parking space, stopped and put the brake on. "While the engine remained running, she was stationary and occupying the parking space for more than 11 minutes. "In these circumstances an objective view of what she was doing, in the context of this area and what was clearly a car park, is that she was parking." He added that the British Parking Association (BPA) code of practice states a grace period of ten minutes should be given for drivers to read terms on parking signage, but that "after ten minutes a contract would come into existence". He said: "Thus, if the respondent had driven off before the expiry of ten minutes from her arrival in the parking space she would not be contractually bound to pay the charge."
Simkiss was hoodwinked by OPS barrister and the defendant was unfairly made to pay costs despite this being within the Small Claims Track (for reference, Barry Beavis lost in the Supreme Court but only had to pay the original £85 PCN). Sadly the Defendant was unable to afford a further appeal.
I’m starting to get to the stage where I believe drivers should have to retake their driving test every 10 years. I live in a major town on the outskirts of London & the parking here is nothing short of selfish, dangerous & in some cases down right dumb (eg. lorry parked across the entrance of the hospital a few weeks ago.) it’s not helped by unclear signage, ridiculously overpriced car parking & nonexistent traffic wardens. When I do complain the council tell me to go the police and the police tell me to go to the council.
@@andywatts8654Yes because without them, anarchy reigns. You may not like them but they do serve a purpose. The ones I don’t like are the private parking enforcement arseholes who are all about the profit & not the safety.
We lived opposite a doctors surgery, aside 99% of the country's Blue Badge holders using the same 200M of road, we had "waiting" cars filling up the residents bays from 8am to 7pm whilst the passenger went in the doctors surgery. The surgery most time ran an hour late on appointments booked. The wardens avoided the road as too many assaulted by these "waiting" car drivers for asking them to move
If you are entering a car park to pick up someone that works at a site to which the car park is attached (and where it has been indicated by the management of the site that the car has been registered with the car parking company), would it be acceptable to reference Ashby vs Tolhurst in communication with the debt collection company? If this is the case, and you would not refer to A vs T, would you expect the fact that the person working at the site would be a mitigating circumstance? (not expecting advice here, just a bit of guidance, happy to contact you privately if you need more information or specifics - this is causing my wife and I some considerable stress as the debt collection company and car parking company are not backing off, although I am sending them a cease and desist letter - hence the question re A vs T)
I wonder if any of these parking companies have considered charging not for parking, but for permission to bring a vehicle onto the property. If they were to charge an entry fee, rather than a parking charge, it would seem to simplify their cases enormously. Alternatively, they could charge a fee for remaining on the property for longer than x minutes, where x is deemed to be sufficient time to read any posted terms and conditions. They could have a large sign outside giving the location of the conditions sign and saying, by staying more than x minutes you agree to have read and agreed to the detailed conditions posted inside. This way, it makes no difference whether you parked or not. Surprised they don't use this system already.
Hi I have a question can you sue a private company for giving out your vehicle information to another private company .dose this come under data protection act. As dvla is a private government company and are selling your details to private run parking company can you have your vehicle details removed from dvla thanks.
Stopping and parking 6.1Vehicles must be parked with due care and consideration A driver or person in charge of a vehicle must not stop, stand, or park the vehicle on a road, whether attended or unattended, without due care or without reasonable consideration for other road users. 6.2Parking vehicles off roadway (1) A driver or person in charge of a vehicle must not stop, stand, or park the vehicle on a roadway if he or she can stop, stand, or park it on the road margin without damaging ornamental grass plots, shrubs, or flower beds laid out or planted on the margin. (2) Subclause (1) does not apply if the road controlling authority provides signs or markings, or makes a bylaw, indicating that a rule different from the one in subclause (1) applies. The above is a section from the NZ Land Transport Act Road User Rules 2004. It defines parking as standing, stopping, or parking. The compliance officer has discretion on whether to issue a notice on seeing a vehicle on (in NZ) broken yellow lines. If the driver is present the compliance officer can request the driver to move on, but failing to get compliance will issue the notice. If the vehicle is a repeat offender, or if the driver is not compliant the officer may still issue the notice. One more obvious difference is that the restriction is between the road markings and the centre of the road. This vehicle parking outside of the lines would not be in breach if NZ law.
agree that the first one was the right descision but for the wrong reason. on the 2nd one - how relevant is evidence of the time entering/leaving the car park? any charges are for the ammount of time parked not the ammount of time on the land.
The new Statutory Code of Practice which we are *still* waiting to be introduced, makes this exact distinction. Time on site is not the same as the period of parking.
This is the problem when using ANPR to remotely monitor car parks. Private parking companies use the time the vehicle entered and exited the car park, regardless of whether the vehicle parked, or just drove around looking for a space and then left. If a motorist hasn’t stopped or got out of their vehicle to read the sign inside the car park, they haven’t accepted the contract offered by the PPC. Councils are not allowed to use ANPR. PCNs must be issued by CEOs.
@@bryanmills3139not only that but when they send the bill they often include the photographs surely this makes them CCTV rather than just ANPR as they recording much more information than just the numberplate. im prety sure using CCTV legally requires much larger notices to inform people than a comment in the small print of signs
Judge Harvey still did not make it clear. Because "Leaving the car" is not defined. By this definition I can still leave a car in a place without my body physically leaving the car. I.e I can stop the car and take a 2 hour nap without ever exiting the car. So this does not constitute parking?
I dropped my wife and daughter off at Liverpool airport at 5am in the morning on a deserted road 5 minutes walk from the terminal. I literally pulled up, removed a cabin bag and kissed them goodbye, less than 1 minute, and received a £60 penalty notice. Nice.
How would being the holder of a blue badge affect the first case? Often I see blue badge holders not only parked on double yellow lines, hazard warning lights on, nobody in the car, in sometimes the most stupid/ inconsiderate and dangerous places.
Definitely not a lawyer but, IIRC Blue badges in much of the UK allow you to park on double yellows as long as it is safe to do so and they don't also have a no loading/unloading restriction or similar and not private land. For example years ago in MK I was looking for a good spot to park to take a parent in a wheelchair somewhere for the evening by train and all the disabled bays were full and the parking warden replied "you can park anywhere here, but I'd recommend not over there (pointing to some double lines near a shutter) as you'll likely get dinged by the trucks unloading". MK is possibly the best place for parking if disabled in the UK, IIRC the council allows disabled users to park in any bay free and unlimited in the car parks they administer. Personally even with multiple passengers with blue badges I'll try to avoid any yellow lines, but the actual advice is: "Badge holders may park on single or double yellow lines for up to 3 hours, but in general not where there are restrictions on loading or unloading - indicated by yellow kerb dashes and / or signs on plates. You may wish to check whether a particular local council has chosen to exempt Blue Badge holders from this restriction. Where local schemes apply, such as those that apply in parts of central London, you should check the rules for that area. You are not entitled to park on yellow lines in off-street car parks" You don't need to put the warning lights on, but I can see exactly why someone would as it makes the car more visible, although IIRC you're not meant to use them when parking unless broken down.
@arnolduk123 I'd check your Highway Code. Leaving the engine idling is an offence for obvious reasons. Even if you are stuck in traffic, or waiting at a level crossing you should turn the engine off. I can't believe any British driver doesn't know that - even if they ignore it - so I assume you don't drive!
Completely unrelated topic but I am going through redundancy and the legal grey areas are astounding, trying to get even the smallest understanding of your legal rights as a representative makes it nearly impossible for anyone short of a solicitor to know what’s right and wrong, would you be able to do a video on people’s rights? Hate seeing others get screwed over because they don’t know their rights or how to track them down
See definition of "parking" in video at timestamp 22:20. I question charging a car whilst not leaving it unattended is not legally "parking". @@michaeldunham3385
Parking or making use of a facility within the car park that has it's own charge associated with it? (yes very picky, but I suspect there will be a case about it at some point if not already). I would sort of like to see a parking charge company arguing that you can't use the electrical charge meters that you are paying for in the car park and see what a court makes of it.@@michaeldunham3385
Since there is another judgement that considers only parking spaces to be off the road and that the means of getting into parking spaces (even on private land, if in a public space) to be a road then the person here has admitted to using a mobile phone whilst in control of a vehicle on a public road which is an offence in itself. This is why you can't use your phone to order at a mcdonalds drive thru even though by most peoples standards you wouldn't consider it a road - but it is for the purposes of the law!
Ok. Apologies for the length of time it's taken me to reply - I've replayed particular sections of your video to get the cause COMPLETELY understandable to ME... I have some questions that I would like to put to you, if that isbok?? Please advise... 👍
I've got a question for you I was approached by a policeman the other day a sergeant, and he said it's an offence assault if you shout at somebody, I can't believe that I said no you're talking of your asss, he said if you shout at somebody it's can be taken as assault, I said what you mean shouting in the ear threatening to cause them serious harm he said no!! I said what the distance we're talking between me and you what was about 6 ft he said yeah, and that's not using any foul language, he said yes. I can't believe that I just don't believe that, what is the law on it. any truth to what he says? how can shouting at somebody be classed as an assault just laughable is this what the country has become.
@@neuralwarp yes but that's not what he's telling me he said just shouting, I said if I threaten somebody is that what you mean no just shouting doesn't make any sense I think he's got it wrong must have I put a lot of scenarios to him and seemed to come back with the same answer
Hi Daniel , great channel very informative , i find myself looking out for your latest , keep up the good work ... one comment regards this video though , I do agree with you and your reasoning , However ,I am thinking this person admitted to using a mobile phone whilst stationary WHILST THE ENGINE WAS RUNNING , I thought if the engine was running you are still considered to be in control of the vehicle making use of a hand held mobile an offence ??? I always though you had to be parked with the engine off and even keys out of the ignition to use a phone legally ? I would be very interested in your opinion on this and yes I know its not legal advice
While I appreciate your advice, but a easier life is to read the rules and abide by them. I wish we had some parking enforcement where I live each house has 3-4 parking spaces but they still park there Jag's and ranges on the pavements. Imagining a world when all the parking companies have closed due to court costs.
@@michaeldunham3385 You seem to know a lot about the subject. What is the job title of the employee tasked with visiting homes to check whether or not the occupant possesses a television license? Whatever you call them, they're never away from my door peddling their wares.
Quelle surprise - legislation being drawn up without defining the *most* critical terms! Almost as if they knew it would ensure a very lucrative and recurring stream of work for decades to come for their buddies in the legal profession...
It's rather funny that in her defence she claims she only stopped to avoid committing a crime, then inadvertently admits she committed a different crime, using it as the core reason for why she wasn't parked. Using a phone while the engine is running is illegal, except to pay at a toll station/drive-thru. On a related note, the legal definition of parking is stupid. A lorry driver stopping in a layby to have his legally mandated rest is parked, be it 15 minutes or 15 hours, even when he doesn't leave the lorry. She was parked, if only for a short while. The company is still in the wrong to try and charge her £100 for it though, never mind the whole court stuff.
Could you kindly do a video on summary offences and attachments of earnings stealing our money for speeding fines. The appeals process etc. The fines are all different and appears to be made up I have £1014 coming out in one hit. Others have £1410 £1513. Pecuniary interests appears to be the only motive and police are completely ignorant to whole process. Thank you in advance
Double yellow lines are very often there for safety reasons. The danger of "parking" there applies whether you're in the car or not, so of course a penalty should apply, especially if he was there for a prolonged perioid (which he was). I admit that I have occasionally waited briefly on double (or single) yellows, willing to move immediately if necessary, but never in a position that would cause a dangerous physical or visual obstruction. And if I had received a fine, I would have just accepted it, knowing that I was technically in the wrong.
Definition of parking according to the dictionary "leaving a vehicle in a particular place for a period of time". Nothing about exiting the vehicle, so a trucker stopped over night is parked. So is someone who gets out of their car for ten seconds and then gets back in. The vehicle has been left in place for some time. So it all comes down to what is a reasonable amount of time to define parking. It would need to be more than just some brief visit to check some scratch on the vehicle or even stopping for another car maneuvering whilst continuing on some journey around a full carpark. What is reasonable should always err on the side of the person alleged to be parked. So unless there is some reasonable rule that has been breached, the driver should not be penalised. Life is grey and the black and white letters in some rule book or legislation can never handle ever single situation that life brings up.
In traffic that's usually enough to persuade a court that you're driving, stopped in a parking bay, off the trough road through the car-park, with the car in neutral, & the brakes set, it becomes harder to argue you are driving, since you're clearly not about to move in response to traffic moving. Had the case been about phone use, rather than parking, the court would have had to decide as a matter of fact in this case if the car was being driven or not.
Being on the phone is not an offence in and of itself. There's a potential to commit an offence if you are distracted by it (but she was stopped off the road, so was not driving) or if the phone is hand held (and there was no information given on this).
The argument about not being parked if in the vehicle gets my goat at times, at my local shopping centre you can't get a disabled bay because someone is sitting in one without a blue badge waiting on Britney collecting and returning her valuable online shopping from Next.
So whilst defending the fact she pulled over to answer the phone call whilst the engine was running for 12 minutes, she has inadvertently admitted she broke the law by being on her phone whilst in charge of a vehicle - " Engine running" 😂😂
It hasn't been specified if the lady was using any hands-free apparatus. It seems that the judge did not feel the need to clarify this point in this proceeding.
@arnolduk123 The law in England and Wales is in section 192(1) Road Traffic Act 1988 which says that a road is: Any highway. Any other road to which the public has access. BBB has covered extensively what the law states in England and Wales about the use of mobile phones whilst in charge of a motor vehicle, maybe ask him about it.
@@Rapid_GT It's possible she may have felt she needed to write down some details that were to be relayed to her. Due to the nature of the call that is described in the court document, that seems likely.
@@daMagerLDN-B2 Surely that would have been mentioned by her as the key reason to pull over and not just to take the call ! It's all speculation I guess but I just found that amusing when trying to get herself out of one predicament and putting herself into another.
Keep it simple. Keep to the point. This did not have to be such a long article. (How many “for reasons I will return to”) I got fed up and stopped half way through. I just couldn’t keep up with all the unnecessary bouncing around. Sorry. I do normally stay with your articles to the end, I am subscribed and remain so.
Parking is parking whether you leave the vehicle or not! It isn't stopping, you are parked up! For example, if you go to a drive in cinema, you stay in the car to watch the movie but you are still parked up! How can people think it's okay to park on double yellow lines for an hour just because they didn't leave the vehicle? Their stupidity is beyond belief!
Because the old Appeals court case mentioned in the video says parking means leaving your vehicle. Being in it ain't leaving it. With yellow lines though, they get you because they are NO WAITING or parking lines.
Use code blackbeltbarrister at the link below to get an exclusive 60% off an annual Incogni plan: incogni.com/blackbeltbarrister
No thanks. You're a fake as expected.
what if parking is relaxed and you have blue badge while parked on double yellow lines, would it be reasonable for the blue badge timer to be also relaxed. the council has confirmed relaxed rules but not stateded any specific info about the meaaning of relaxed. i am arguing that if rules are relaxed that would inclued time limits being one of the relaxed rules as it has never been stated other wise and as such the ticket (pcn) for being over my time limit on the blue badge clock shouldn't be enforced and it is out side my home i have parked there for meany years with no isses until past few years.
I once got a parking ticket in the time it took to walk from the car to the ticket machine to buy the pay and display ticket and walk back. It came back via collections etc to me several times over the next year or three (US experience). In the case discussed here, one dynamic must be the 3-4 minutes it takes to read the sign. Assuming you don't block the entrance to the car park to awkwardly read the sign, you might reasonably stop in a parking bay, exit the car, walk to read the sign, reread to make sure you understood it, decide not to park, walk back to the car and then leave the lot. That's perhaps 5-10 minutes which you clearly have not agreed to park [I would have thought the definition of Leaving per the cited case might reasonably include "leaving the parking lot" on foot]
To say nothing of installing the app to pay.
I frequently see Recovery Agents ('bailiffs'), CEOs, and contractors applying DVLA wheel clamps around the area - they are almost all without exception stopped on double yellow lines whilst they conduct their business. Ironic really.
0:15 Lawyers and judges very often disagree on principals and application of law. And yet, the rest of us are somehow expected to follow these laws.
Lawyers and Judges are the reason why you usually get off with having broken said laws.
Although case law sets the precedent in normal circumstances
It's maddening that a parking company can consider you stopping inside your vehicle as entering into a contract when those contract terms are not clearly visible from within your vehicle.
And if you 'leave' your car to read those terms, you have 'parked' without accepting the contract...
Interesting how the old appeal specifically refers to taking a ticket 'in order to obtain permission to park' rather than just driving past an anpr camera
@@contactjd If you leave the car to read the contract and decide you don't agree with it and return to your car and drive out; then you were probably parked, but they can't rely on contract law to claim the parking charges. They would have to go with tresspass which would get them nominal damages at best.
@@katrinabryce And you reckon that will stop 'em trying it on do you?
That's not true. The law is on your side (even though the parking companies would have you believe otherwise). You cannot become bound by terms that you have not had a chance to become acquainted with. Typically, this results in making sure that a parking sign is clearly noticeable when driving past, e.g. "PARKING RESTRICTIONS APPLY" and allowing a grace period after parking to go and read the sign to become familiar with the small print and decide to agree and stay or disagree and leave. Absent that, no contract could be formed and no charge for breach could be levied.
@@jkingofthechicken2217 I know, why I said "can consider"
So few people seem to understand that yellow lines are actually called 'waiting restrictions'.
lets just hope there are no traffic jams or red lights on those roads with "waiting restrcitions" as the double yellow goes fromt the central markings to the roadside.
I got a "parking penalty from the Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea whilst parked next to a street pay parking meter in a "pay & display" parking bay.
I had bought a ticket from said parking ticket machine, the ticket was placed face up on the drivers side dash as instructed and it was still valid for 17 mins at the time my vehicle was issued with a parking contravention notice.
The penalty letter dually arrived c/w the "Photo" of the breach of parking rules.
In the photo the ticket was correctly positioned on the drivers side dash and clearly readable.
It took about 3 attempts to convince the Parling enforcement that the vehicle was legally parked but even then they deemed it necessary to issue a formal warning.
You can refuse a warning. Otherwise they'll record it and use it against you. Try threatening them with the local govt ombudsman.
When their own photo, PROVES you to be entirely in the right, and them to be entirely in the wrong, then I'd be giving THEM a "formal warning" that they were apparently deliberately attempting to get money through fraud ! (I'm not a lawyer, just an unemployed bum from Noo Zeelind (LOL).
From the wording of that parking sign, if you enter the carpark and drive around it looking for a spot to park but it's full so you then leave, you are still liable for the parking notice just by being at the site for a period of time! And what is a period of time according to the laws? A second is a period of time! If there is no minimum time specified what would count as a reasonable period of time?
That would be an unfair contract term surely?
The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 [is retained EU law so I think it might have been updated in some way]
Schedule 2 1 (d).
In a situation where they didn't provide the parking service you agreed to pay for, they can't ask you to pay for the parking charge.
I would agree, if they can't provide a service (a parking location) they are in breach of contract for failing to provide a service for you to park. Also an hour is a period of time does that mean you get an hour to find a place to park, a silly term if you ask me. The car park in town when there is a complex with multiple shops give you about 10 mins grace. Handy when you can drive in pick someone up and drive out through the barrier with no charge, a very sensible solution.
@@tazz1669 10 minutes grace can be enough in most cases but what if a multi-story carpark is full but somehow you still got in, driving slowly round the levels to try to find a spot then give up. You are now charged for driving around and not parking because you took longer than the 10 minutes grace period. The fairer carparks are the ones that let you pay up front, but they need officers to walk round checking the vehicles have a ticket and if it's expired or not. Extra expense to the carpark operators which raises the parking costs to the users.
But, my point with asking what defines a period is that often in videos like this you are just told "a period of time". Of course giving 1 second as an example is just me being silly knowing it has to be a lot longer than that, but a second is still a period of time. A silly extreme to highlight the silliness of the phrase. In almost all cases though, the signage will specify the period because without that information they can not legally expect to be able to say someone knowingly exceeded that period if that someone does not know what it is.
The consideration period before parking was 10 minutes but has now been reduced to 5 minutes in both the BPA and IPC (Private Parking Trade Associations) Codes of Practice.
@@bryanmills3139 A driver rushing round a carpark: "Brenda, keep an eye out for a parking spot! We only have 5 minutes to find one or we pay even if we don't find one!". Sounds like a joke but could be a reality that can cause accidents. Drivers fixated on finding a spot in time and not paying full attention to other things like pedestrians. Totally dumb to reduce that grace period.
Where I live, probably 95% of double-yellow line violations go unpunished, for 2 main reasons - sparsity of traffic wardens/CEOs, and lines that are either broken, or have almost worn away to nothing. I'm not sure, but I've always believed that yellow lines have to be clear, complete, and continuous to be legal? But that's another story...
Unless you have a private parking scumpany on a technicality where they haven't complied with the law there is no point appealing as they will instantly refuse any and all appeals without even reading them all they want is your money
Charging an electric car in a free car park with time restrictions is not Parking. However ParkingEye will issue a PCN through the post. Even though you have paid the charge point operator for the electricity consumed. The worst is Tesco with a 15 time restriction outside of shop hours. £100 charge. Aldi £70. Don’t even think about returning because you have forgotten something because there’s no return within 4 hours. 😢
In NZ I patrol several car parks that have Electric vehicle charging points. The charging points are covered by a time restriction. Any vehicle EV or ICE is limited by the time limit stated P120 in this instance, and the legislation and signage indicate that these parking spaces must only be used for the purpose of charging. Any ICE vehicle seen parked is liable for an infringement notice, any EV not plugged in is currently being issued a warning notice to educate the driver.
I had this but they waived it. I spoke to the store manager and showed him the receipt and just by the time it took me to get to his office, he realised my disabilities (I have a badge.) He contacted the parking people and supported my appeal. I can only do a shop at my speed, which is slow with breaks 😂. Even Aldi staff help me with packing and putting in my car or a kind person helps. I don't shop in busy hours.
@@deborahosborne9426good point to raise.
The stores generally have some say in the parking charges, so if you can show a receipt or some other reasonable reason.
They want customers in the door, and don't want bad pr. It's the parking companies whose business is based on ticketing people.
The store I worked at only got it because commuters were using the car park.
Worse around some estates so many cars parked up on the pavements that u are forced to walk on the roads cause theres no room for you to walk on the designated pedestrian sidewalk
Would a vehicle still be considered parked if it was broken down, or otherwise not able to move?
For example, coming back to your car in a carpark with a flat battery, and overstaying whilst waiting for assistance. Or being unable to exit due to standstill traffic etc?
I would assume that once you return to the vehicle, it is nolonger being left, so any period of parking has ended?
Hmmm. Another scammer. Ignore them.
You can't help emergencies, and it can be a defence. However time can also be an issue say you pulled over onto the side of the road to answer the phone and there was double yellows, like in the video. The correct thing to do is to answer and respond "Sorry, I am driving at the moment. Could you call me back after 5 minute to let me park." Before finding somewhere legal to park. There is no rule agains temporarily stopping, only waiting and parking. Same could be said about picking someone up or dropping them up. If you are early park legally before traveling there at the point you need. Parking inforcement won't care if the need to stop is for a few seconds as it would be the same if there was stop-start traffic.
@@Sam-wx1ojIf on double yellow lines etc, I assume that you would be having a conversation with a traffic warden/police etc. And common sense would be applied.
But in a carpark with ANPR and an automated charge notice system, you could well end up arguing the case.
I know someone who got caught out this way, after limping his car off a busy motorway and into the services.
Frustration of contract applies in a private car park - driver wanted to move but was prevented from doing so by the immobility of the vehicle.
There was a sad story local to me about over 80 year old man trying to post a letter, there was no spaces he could use as he had difficulty walking and he stopped handed the letter to someone who posted it.
He was there for 1 minute 15 seconds but fot fined £180, sadly he paid it because he was scared into paying. This was private property outside a shopping area.
Question can he get it back? Imo he has many grounds to argue it was completely unjustified.
If he cant whats to stop someone intentionally throwing out invalid fines and instantly accepting appeals but profiting from the vulnerable who pay it out of fear?
I have fought and won a wrongful parking violation here in the US. I emailed a long explanation, with times posted and my explanation of why I believed the parking meter man had erred. I caught him writing it and he was very rude. It was a 45 minute zone and I had only been there for about 20 minutes. Anyway it is likely to succeed here, if you are very polite, yet very wordy, and describe how the fine is wrongful. The older man’s should describe his infirmity etc…mention if he is a war veteran, just throw everything at them but politely.
@@Nikalette100 yeah unfortunately as he has paid it already I'm not sure what he can do cause, if he has no legal resource and they were harsh enough to fine him in first place I doubt they will refund out of goodwill only, in most cases a wordy and police email works because they know you can legally challenge it so they may as well give up now
I am currently appealing a penalty charge notice. It came through the post and the evidence was a photograph of an empty road. I.e. no evidence of an offence, it is now at adjudication as the appeal to the council was rejected partly as "we do not need photographic evidence". The section 9 was not served as the CEO was some distance away and I drove off as my passenger had got in. Is eyewitness testimony all that is needed for a section 10?
@blackbetbarrister can I ask is there some official rules and marking out disabled bays, extra space, times allowed for exiting / getting back into vehicles with wheelchair etc. and signage. As sure one car park did not meat standards but unsure where to confirm
They should define parking and stopping in the statutes, including any time limits. It would help avoid any confusion.
It's understandable to halt a vehicle on the open road for a short time while you are driving, but if you drive into a car park and stop driving, you intend to use that property for purposes not related to an act of driving the car. I think this precedent is open to challenge.
I guess Ashby vTolhurst comes into play for a Parking Charge Notice (which relates to a contract to PARK, which you may not have done if you didn't "leave you car in that place") but not for local authority Penalty Charge Notices which often relate to on-street parking where there are waiting restrictions in the form of yellow lines. You may perhaps be able to use Ashby v Tolhurst in a council-operated car park, in which there is only ever mention of parking, and not waiting. Hands up who fancies trying that one first, and create some modern case law :)
The landowner contract for Lewes Eastgate Wharf states:
11. When PCNs will not be issued. The following vehicles shall not be issued with a PCN under any circumstances.
v) Vehicles where the driver is present with the engine running. (For up to 15 minutes only).
The landowner contract is between One Parking Solution and a director of One Parking Solution.
The District Judge said this was ‘suspiciously bizarre’.
Just cover your number plate.. works every time
😂 I have seen it been done and no ticket was issued
I have seen it been done and no ticket was issued
There are important exceptions where the driver is or is conveying a Blue Badge holder. In most places, a vehicle conveying a blue badge holder may lawfully stop on single and double yellow lines unless the vehicle is causing an unnecessary obstruction and the blue badge (and if required) the timer disk is displayed. Where the kerbstones also have yellow lines (denoting no loading) then the blue badge concession no longer applies. I believe that I am also correct in saying that a driver performing a task on behalf of the blue badge holder may use the blue badge as if the holder were present. Note also that in London, some RedRoute Loading bays are also denoted as blue badge holder bays and any restriction to this concession must be clearly signed and included in Evidence in Chief (i,e, collected contemporaneously at the time of the alleged offence) and failure to include such evidence at that time makes its subsequent inclusion unlawful and inadmissible.
I totally agree with the court's decision, 'stopping' for over an hour is de-facto 'parking'.
Thanks for this video. OPS attempted to charge an ambulance for stopping at a care home and because the driver accompanied the elderly patient inside they deemed it was parked. I felt they were being disingenuous - this judgement which predates the case I dealt with gives just that example to them. I sent them an invoice for preparation time defending the case as they required me to get the SCAS (ambulance) scheduling system print out after my first communication with them that told them it was an ambulance & not parked and that any further emails required by them from me were £100+VAT. Would I exasperate the judge further if I used his judgement to sue OPS for my fees??
@BlackBeltBarrister, what do you do if the parking company ignores your appeal and the next thing you hear about the Parking Charge Notice is from a debt collection agency?
What If the vehicle move foward and backward while on double yellow line ? does it considered as waiting or parking ?
So if you mreakdown and are with and in your vehicle waiting for a tow, is that parked? be that on double yellow lines or not.
With reference to yellow lines, with the exception of being a blue badge holder. Whilst i have nothing against blue badge holders and have family members who have them, i agree they should be able to wait but only if it is safe. Many people around the city use their blue badge as permission to park where ever they wish, even if it is not safe to do so e.g. on the corner of a , junction, on the zigzags at crossings, causing an obstruction to the flow of traffic on a busy road etc
Well they already can't park on ZigZags: www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-blue-badge-scheme-rights-and-responsibilities-in-england/the-blue-badge-scheme-rights-and-responsibilities-in-england#places-where-you-cannot-park should be able to report that to council.
Why would someone be on a call for an hour?
There's a difference between "no parking/waiting" and "no stopping".
So on the basis of that landmark case of Ashby V Tolhurst 1000s of truckers who "park" overnight at service stations on motorways should not be charged as they don't leave their vehicles, they are not "PARKED" !
In reality most of them probably do, even if it is just to visit the 🚽.
Too many motorists think yellow lines are just pretty road decorations meant for other people and if they put hazard lights on, they can stop where they want.
In December 2022,I parked at a hospital as my husband was very ill and sadly passed away,I received a parking fine,I appealed and was sent a letter that at this time they parking co would not pursue ,but don’t do it again,words to that effect,now out of the blue in February 2024 I have had a letter from a bailiffs office for £170 ,I am gob smacked ,I have lost the original letter of no further action.i am at the moment waiting to be taken to court regarding the fine in 2022,I will have to answer to the court order when it arrives as I have not got that sort of money.
So I don’t know what way it will go but hopefully I will be able to set a payment plan up .
But I am very upset,I can’t understand why after almost 2yrs the parking company have decided to do this.i was so upset at the time of my husband’s Death I didn’t notice that although it was a hospital car park that I was parked illegally.its a nightmare.
Send a SAR to the parking company. They should have it and by law has to send u it.
@@GodMother.
Thank you so much for the advice I appreciate it very much xxx
@@GodMother.
Hello again I have sent 2 requests to them today in writing
I will post when and if I hear from them. Thanks you again for your advice
@@GodMother.
UPDATE N C P PARKING,
WROTE TO THEM WHAT FOLLOWS THE RESPONSES I RECEIVED
Customer Services,Reply THIS IS NOT MANNED they gave mean other email link,Reply THIS IS NOT MANNED ,
I TRIED EVERY SINGLE EMAIL Same response or similar.
I am at a loss and don’t even have an address to write to,
WHEN I PHONED N C P TELEPHONE NUMBER NO REPLY.
The letters I am receiving are coming from Bailiff’s Who are stating NCP ARE THEIR CLIENTS.And they are advising them to take me to Court.Any advice I would appreciate it if you could I don’t know where to turn. Thank you in advance.
Wish I had known this many years ago when I got a PCN for stopping to load my car 🙁
I'd have thought the word 'leaving' was ambiguous in the original judgement. Does it mean 'leaving the car' - i.e. getting out after stopping? Or could it just mean not moving it - while still inside?
My biggest irk regarding parking is people who don't have a blue badge parking in blue badge bays. If a blue badge holder parks somewhere they shouldn't they can get a £1000 fine but if a non badge holder parks in a blue badge bay they get zero fines.
Blue badge holders should block in the offending car and say "I'll just be a minute" like the person using the bay will say when challenged.
@@melissa-hadfield Agreed BUT
There's a growth industry amongst some communities of using someone else's (usually Ganny's) 'Blue Badge' and sharing it at least around the family.
Its endemic
If she was stopped with the engine on and not parked if she is taking a call on her mobile phone is that not an offence then for using a hand held mobile device?
She wasn’t on the public highway so I don’t think it would be an offence.
Good content as ever. Interesting to see the case here and also interesting to note the parking compnay doesn't seem to own the land, just controls the spaces. If not in a space you also seemingly cannot be in contract with the company. You didn't cover this aspect, Daniel. Is it relevant here?
Clarity needed at 26:09 I think Daniel. It could be interpreted that the loading restrictions apply to stopping while passengers board or alight, which would be a mistaken interpretation.
Good, video and really useful information. Hopefully the judges will start taking these cowboy parking companies to task and start prosecuting them for trying to dupe innocent motorists and wasting the courts time in the process......?
If user is waiting I would argue they are still in control of the vehicle and therefore would be a seperate offence using the mobile, rather than being parked
Interesting; thanks for sharing.
QUESTION: If you use a mobile phone whilst the engine is running, aren’t you committing an offence?
He's covered that in previous videos, & the answer is "it depends". Becomes a matter of fact which the court rules on as to if you're driving or not, assuming they're dealing with a charge of phone use.
I'd imagine stopped within a bay, off the road through a car park, with the vehicle in neutral & handbrake set, wouldn't be considered driving, since you're clearly not doing so. It's a very different situation to just stopped in traffic.
If there's an offence here it might be unnecessary idling, & not even that if there's a reason to idle such as keeping the climate control active so the windows don't steam up, or you don't freeze, when it ceases to be "unnecessary".
Not in the case of the woman referred to here. The prohibition is on holding the phone while driving on a road, she's in a car park. There's a potential conflict though in other cases if arguing that you aren't parked on a road while hand-holding your phone. They could get you on one... or the other (or both, if parking contrary to yellow lines implies not being safely parked).!
@@1947dave nope you can only use a mobile phone when safely parked which ironically the lady in this case was arguing she wasn't
Surely the difference between stopping and parking are already defined in law. If there are double yellow lines then you aren’t allowed to wait but you can stop, if you’re on an urban clearway you’re allowed to stop to let people out of the car. Why can’t these examples be used in discussions with private parking companies? After all road traffic legislation applies on public accessible car parks.
Wirral council have put up signs stating "No Motor Caravans from 8pm to 8am" Are signs like this allowed and legal as cars, buses and HGV's can park at any time. Surly you cannot discriminate against a particular type of vehicle on a public highway. Thanks for the great videos.
Since it's its own taxation class with the DVLA, yes such a restriction can be legal exactly the same as restricting busses, coaches, or HGVs would be. If you couldn't make such restrictions (either allowing or disallowing), you couldn't create bus lanes.
Sometimes people in motor-caravan type vehicles are living in them full time, ie otherwise homeless. Governments around the world are criminalising being poor, so as to be able to sink the boot into homeless people, a little bit easier. The New Zealand government has just changed the laws so that from next year, smaller cheaper motorcaravans, (generally cost $3,000 to $15,000. Often based on a Toyota Estima mini-van) even those fully equipped with approved toilets, will no longer qualify. But caravans and motorcaravans in the $50,000 and above price range almost always qualify under the new rules. This is because only wealthy folks are allowed to enjoy cheap holidays and visit places around the country. Poor peasants should be staying at home (Apparently !)
The solution to this is to have a van converted. DVLA will almost always reject an application to change the status to motorhome so the council's restrictions cannot apply.
On the other hand, there are other restrictions on vans which do not apply to motorhomes but, as long as you have made the application for change of status, those restrictions may not apply when using the vehicle as a motorhome.
Best of both worlds?😊
What does the age of a judgement have to do with anything? Shall we just disregard habeas corpus then? That's quite old.
Found this very difficult to follow, where is the summary? DId they win or lose.
The purposes of the courts include "beating the bounds" of the law to keep it fresh. No such exercise is waste of a court's time.
Sooooo IF the traffic grinds to a halt AND there are double yellow lines
None of the exemptions listed apply and
*THEN you have 'waited' and some Jobsworth Money Shark can pounce on you* !
Just because its insane doesn't mean SOME councils won't try it 😋
If you have to wonder if it's parking or stopping it's already quite crazy. I mean, how quickly are they writing a ticket ? Are they like standing there waiting and as soon as you stop they start writing? I really get the feeling England is not a country where I would want to live.
Don't need to write anything, often this is based on video evidence
That's good we would send you to Rwanda anyway.
I sometimes do food delivery work, and a while ago I stopped in Chinatown in Newcastle to pick up an order. When I arrived outside, there was a ticket guy there. He said I couldn’t park there, I said I was collecting an order. He said I couldn’t do that, I showed him the Newcastle council page which states you can load your car on yellow lines with items or passenger. This is the exact text from their website:
“Loading and unloading is permitted on single or double yellow lines providing there are no markings on the kerb side. A Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) will need to observe loading and unloading take place. If no loading/unloading is seen a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) may be issued”
He still said I couldn’t so I just said okay then and went to collect my order. I was literally in and out of the store within 30 seconds, and he didn’t have time to write the ticket so they sent it in the post instead.
I appealed and they denied the appeal so I said okay let’s go to court then and the council then backed down. What a bunch of bullies they are.
@@Drenwickification honestly I don't think they're going to consider picking up a takeaway as loading or unloading.
I think you're wasting your time and money pursuing an appeal in such circumstances.
Sometimes you just have to accept it and move on instead of letting it eat you up.
They are. I got a ticket years ago after finding a gap the council has missed putting a yellow line on. I came back to a ticket.
This was years before camera phones - so the council came and painted a yellow line there after the event and denied that there was no yellow line…, but I had been sneaky and taken a Polaroid off the spot 👌 they lost…
This CCJ was successfully appealed by One Parking Ltd, with the defendant ordered to pay over £3,700 to One Parking Solutions Ltd. There is an article about it in the local paper (The Argus) from June 2021. From the article:
At the appeal hearing, Judge Simpkiss said: "In this case the defendant drove into a designated parking space, stopped and put the brake on.
"While the engine remained running, she was stationary and occupying the parking space for more than 11 minutes.
"In these circumstances an objective view of what she was doing, in the context of this area and what was clearly a car park, is that she was parking."
He added that the British Parking Association (BPA) code of practice states a grace period of ten minutes should be given for drivers to read terms on parking signage, but that "after ten minutes a contract would come into existence".
He said: "Thus, if the respondent had driven off before the expiry of ten minutes from her arrival in the parking space she would not be contractually bound to pay the charge."
Simkiss was hoodwinked by OPS barrister and the defendant was unfairly made to pay costs despite this being within the Small Claims Track (for reference, Barry Beavis lost in the Supreme Court but only had to pay the original £85 PCN). Sadly the Defendant was unable to afford a further appeal.
I’m starting to get to the stage where I believe drivers should have to retake their driving test every 10 years. I live in a major town on the outskirts of London & the parking here is nothing short of selfish, dangerous & in some cases down right dumb (eg. lorry parked across the entrance of the hospital a few weeks ago.) it’s not helped by unclear signage, ridiculously overpriced car parking & nonexistent traffic wardens. When I do complain the council tell me to go the police and the police tell me to go to the council.
You’re the only person who wants more traffic wardens
@@andywatts8654Yes because without them, anarchy reigns. You may not like them but they do serve a purpose. The ones I don’t like are the private parking enforcement arseholes who are all about the profit & not the safety.
We lived opposite a doctors surgery, aside 99% of the country's Blue Badge holders using the same 200M of road, we had "waiting" cars filling up the residents bays from 8am to 7pm whilst the passenger went in the doctors surgery. The surgery most time ran an hour late on appointments booked. The wardens avoided the road as too many assaulted by these "waiting" car drivers for asking them to move
Many foreign drivers now some with fraudualnt lience.( you never know)
Retaking a driving test wouldn't help selfish people, they would drive perfectly on the test, then resume their normal mode immediately afterwards.
If you are entering a car park to pick up someone that works at a site to which the car park is attached (and where it has been indicated by the management of the site that the car has been registered with the car parking company), would it be acceptable to reference Ashby vs Tolhurst in communication with the debt collection company? If this is the case, and you would not refer to A vs T, would you expect the fact that the person working at the site would be a mitigating circumstance? (not expecting advice here, just a bit of guidance, happy to contact you privately if you need more information or specifics - this is causing my wife and I some considerable stress as the debt collection company and car parking company are not backing off, although I am sending them a cease and desist letter - hence the question re A vs T)
I wonder if any of these parking companies have considered charging not for parking, but for permission to bring a vehicle onto the property.
If they were to charge an entry fee, rather than a parking charge, it would seem to simplify their cases enormously.
Alternatively, they could charge a fee for remaining on the property for longer than x minutes, where x is deemed to be sufficient time to read any posted terms and conditions. They could have a large sign outside giving the location of the conditions sign and saying, by staying more than x minutes you agree to have read and agreed to the detailed conditions posted inside.
This way, it makes no difference whether you parked or not.
Surprised they don't use this system already.
They wouldn't then be covered by the regulations that allow them to get registered keeper information from the DVLA.
Good Point. If they charge for both parking and for entry though, that would get them in both camps.@@katrinabryce
Very helpful, thank you
Hi I have a question can you sue a private company for giving out your vehicle information to another private company .dose this come under data protection act. As dvla is a private government company and are selling your details to private run parking company can you have your vehicle details removed from dvla thanks.
O feel the yellow double yellow, parking, waiting, loading, picking up people could be a entire video to itself.
Stopping and parking
6.1Vehicles must be parked with due care and consideration
A driver or person in charge of a vehicle must not stop, stand, or park the vehicle on a road, whether attended or unattended, without due care or without reasonable consideration for other road users.
6.2Parking vehicles off roadway
(1)
A driver or person in charge of a vehicle must not stop, stand, or park the vehicle on a roadway if he or she can stop, stand, or park it on the road margin without damaging ornamental grass plots, shrubs, or flower beds laid out or planted on the margin.
(2)
Subclause (1) does not apply if the road controlling authority provides signs or markings, or makes a bylaw, indicating that a rule different from the one in subclause (1) applies.
The above is a section from the NZ Land Transport Act Road User Rules 2004. It defines parking as standing, stopping, or parking.
The compliance officer has discretion on whether to issue a notice on seeing a vehicle on (in NZ) broken yellow lines. If the driver is present the compliance officer can request the driver to move on, but failing to get compliance will issue the notice. If the vehicle is a repeat offender, or if the driver is not compliant the officer may still issue the notice.
One more obvious difference is that the restriction is between the road markings and the centre of the road.
This vehicle parking outside of the lines would not be in breach if NZ law.
Thank you for this informative vid. Cant wait to try it😂
agree that the first one was the right descision but for the wrong reason.
on the 2nd one - how relevant is evidence of the time entering/leaving the car park? any charges are for the ammount of time parked not the ammount of time on the land.
The new Statutory Code of Practice which we are *still* waiting to be introduced, makes this exact distinction. Time on site is not the same as the period of parking.
This is the problem when using ANPR to remotely monitor car parks. Private parking companies use the time the vehicle entered and exited the car park, regardless of whether the vehicle parked, or just drove around looking for a space and then left. If a motorist hasn’t stopped or got out of their vehicle to read the sign inside the car park, they haven’t accepted the contract offered by the PPC.
Councils are not allowed to use ANPR. PCNs must be issued by CEOs.
@@bryanmills3139not only that but when they send the bill they often include the photographs
surely this makes them CCTV rather than just ANPR as they recording much more information than just the numberplate.
im prety sure using CCTV legally requires much larger notices to inform people than a comment in the small print of signs
Judge Harvey still did not make it clear. Because "Leaving the car" is not defined. By this definition I can still leave a car in a place without my body physically leaving the car. I.e I can stop the car and take a 2 hour nap without ever exiting the car. So this does not constitute parking?
I dropped my wife and daughter off at Liverpool airport at 5am in the morning on a deserted road 5 minutes walk from the terminal. I literally pulled up, removed a cabin bag and kissed them goodbye, less than 1 minute, and received a £60 penalty notice. Nice.
How would being the holder of a blue badge affect the first case? Often I see blue badge holders not only parked on double yellow lines, hazard warning lights on, nobody in the car, in sometimes the most stupid/ inconsiderate and dangerous places.
Definitely not a lawyer but, IIRC Blue badges in much of the UK allow you to park on double yellows as long as it is safe to do so and they don't also have a no loading/unloading restriction or similar and not private land.
For example years ago in MK I was looking for a good spot to park to take a parent in a wheelchair somewhere for the evening by train and all the disabled bays were full and the parking warden replied "you can park anywhere here, but I'd recommend not over there (pointing to some double lines near a shutter) as you'll likely get dinged by the trucks unloading". MK is possibly the best place for parking if disabled in the UK, IIRC the council allows disabled users to park in any bay free and unlimited in the car parks they administer.
Personally even with multiple passengers with blue badges I'll try to avoid any yellow lines, but the actual advice is:
"Badge holders may park on single or double yellow lines for up to 3 hours, but in general not where there are restrictions on loading or unloading - indicated by yellow kerb dashes and / or signs on plates. You may wish to check whether a particular local council has chosen to exempt Blue Badge holders from this restriction.
Where local schemes apply, such as those that apply in parts of central London, you should check the rules for that area. You are not entitled to park on yellow lines in off-street car parks"
You don't need to put the warning lights on, but I can see exactly why someone would as it makes the car more visible, although IIRC you're not meant to use them when parking unless broken down.
Surely it is illegal to take a mobile phone call with the engine running, even in a car park? She should have been reported to the police.
Leaving the engine running also an offence!
@arnolduk123 I'd check your Highway Code. Leaving the engine idling is an offence for obvious reasons.
Even if you are stuck in traffic, or waiting at a level crossing you should turn the engine off. I can't believe any British driver doesn't know that - even if they ignore it - so I assume you don't drive!
@arnolduk123 Are you OK?
Nice to find a judge with his head screwed on
Completely unrelated topic but I am going through redundancy and the legal grey areas are astounding, trying to get even the smallest understanding of your legal rights as a representative makes it nearly impossible for anyone short of a solicitor to know what’s right and wrong, would you be able to do a video on people’s rights? Hate seeing others get screwed over because they don’t know their rights or how to track them down
What about stopping in a car park to charge an EV? If I don't leave the car unattended, am I liable to parking charges from the car park?
You're parking in a car park take a guess
See definition of "parking" in video at timestamp 22:20. I question charging a car whilst not leaving it unattended is not legally "parking". @@michaeldunham3385
Parking or making use of a facility within the car park that has it's own charge associated with it? (yes very picky, but I suspect there will be a case about it at some point if not already). I would sort of like to see a parking charge company arguing that you can't use the electrical charge meters that you are paying for in the car park and see what a court makes of it.@@michaeldunham3385
Since there is another judgement that considers only parking spaces to be off the road and that the means of getting into parking spaces (even on private land, if in a public space) to be a road then the person here has admitted to using a mobile phone whilst in control of a vehicle on a public road which is an offence in itself. This is why you can't use your phone to order at a mcdonalds drive thru even though by most peoples standards you wouldn't consider it a road - but it is for the purposes of the law!
Ok. Apologies for the length of time it's taken me to reply - I've replayed particular sections of your video to get the cause COMPLETELY understandable to ME... I have some questions that I would like to put to you, if that isbok?? Please advise... 👍
I've got a question for you I was approached by a policeman the other day a sergeant, and he said it's an offence assault if you shout at somebody, I can't believe that I said no you're talking of your asss, he said if you shout at somebody it's can be taken as assault, I said what you mean shouting in the ear threatening to cause them serious harm he said no!! I said what the distance we're talking between me and you what was about 6 ft he said yeah, and that's not using any foul language, he said yes. I can't believe that I just don't believe that, what is the law on it. any truth to what he says? how can shouting at somebody be classed as an assault just laughable is this what the country has become.
Assault is when you threaten someone; Battery is when you hit them.
@@neuralwarp yes but that's not what he's telling me he said just shouting, I said if I threaten somebody is that what you mean no just shouting doesn't make any sense I think he's got it wrong must have I put a lot of scenarios to him and seemed to come back with the same answer
Hi Daniel , great channel very informative , i find myself looking out for your latest , keep up the good work ... one comment regards this video though , I do agree with you and your reasoning , However ,I am thinking this person admitted to using a mobile phone whilst stationary WHILST THE ENGINE WAS RUNNING , I thought if the engine was running you are still considered to be in control of the vehicle making use of a hand held mobile an offence ??? I always though you had to be parked with the engine off and even keys out of the ignition to use a phone legally ? I would be very interested in your opinion on this and yes I know its not legal advice
While I appreciate your advice, but a easier life is to read the rules and abide by them. I wish we had some parking enforcement where I live each house has 3-4 parking spaces but they still park there Jag's and ranges on the pavements. Imagining a world when all the parking companies have closed due to court costs.
Everyone has an issue with traffic wardens but id take them over everyone parking like a twat and blocking roads/cutting off visibility
The thing is not everyone parks like a twat. The councils are greedy
@@andywatts8654 bit of both.
I often debate with myself whether I'd rather be a traffic warden or a TV license salesperson.
No such thing as a TV licence salesman
@@michaeldunham3385 Oh?
What title would you afford them?
I can think of several, but they're mostly derogatory.
@@justjim3168 what part of no such thing didn't you understand?
@@michaeldunham3385 You seem to know a lot about the subject.
What is the job title of the employee tasked with visiting homes to check whether or not the occupant possesses a television license?
Whatever you call them, they're never away from my door peddling their wares.
@@justjim3168 a TV licence inspector, I'd have that one would be obvious but apparently not for you.
Why are these notices in dog Latin?
The adjudicator is incorrect , leaving your car in a particular place is parking , the gentleman did not Leave his car .
He was waiting - so the parking question is a red herring
Quelle surprise - legislation being drawn up without defining the *most* critical terms! Almost as if they knew it would ensure a very lucrative and recurring stream of work for decades to come for their buddies in the legal profession...
It's rather funny that in her defence she claims she only stopped to avoid committing a crime, then inadvertently admits she committed a different crime, using it as the core reason for why she wasn't parked. Using a phone while the engine is running is illegal, except to pay at a toll station/drive-thru.
On a related note, the legal definition of parking is stupid. A lorry driver stopping in a layby to have his legally mandated rest is parked, be it 15 minutes or 15 hours, even when he doesn't leave the lorry.
She was parked, if only for a short while. The company is still in the wrong to try and charge her £100 for it though, never mind the whole court stuff.
Could you kindly do a video on summary offences and attachments of earnings stealing our money for speeding fines. The appeals process etc. The fines are all different and appears to be made up I have £1014 coming out in one hit. Others have £1410 £1513. Pecuniary interests appears to be the only motive and police are completely ignorant to whole process. Thank you in advance
Double yellow lines are very often there for safety reasons.
The danger of "parking" there applies whether you're in the car or not, so of course a penalty should apply, especially if he was there for a prolonged perioid (which he was).
I admit that I have occasionally waited briefly on double (or single) yellows, willing to move immediately if necessary, but never in a position that would cause a dangerous physical or visual obstruction. And if I had received a fine, I would have just accepted it, knowing that I was technically in the wrong.
No they're not, or the police wouldn't be allowed to stop on them.
Definition of parking according to the dictionary "leaving a vehicle in a particular place for a period of time". Nothing about exiting the vehicle, so a trucker stopped over night is parked. So is someone who gets out of their car for ten seconds and then gets back in. The vehicle has been left in place for some time. So it all comes down to what is a reasonable amount of time to define parking. It would need to be more than just some brief visit to check some scratch on the vehicle or even stopping for another car maneuvering whilst continuing on some journey around a full carpark. What is reasonable should always err on the side of the person alleged to be parked. So unless there is some reasonable rule that has been breached, the driver should not be penalised. Life is grey and the black and white letters in some rule book or legislation can never handle ever single situation that life brings up.
what about her admitting being on the phone with the vehicle running?
In traffic that's usually enough to persuade a court that you're driving, stopped in a parking bay, off the trough road through the car-park, with the car in neutral, & the brakes set, it becomes harder to argue you are driving, since you're clearly not about to move in response to traffic moving.
Had the case been about phone use, rather than parking, the court would have had to decide as a matter of fact in this case if the car was being driven or not.
Being on the phone is not an offence in and of itself. There's a potential to commit an offence if you are distracted by it (but she was stopped off the road, so was not driving) or if the phone is hand held (and there was no information given on this).
Semantics, for the most part.
Broadly yes - but it has serious implications when interpreted wrongly.
@@BlackBeltBarristeragreed
Lots of law comes down to semantics. Laws are after all written, & the exact meaning of what's written is rather important.
The law is one big word game.
The argument about not being parked if in the vehicle gets my goat at times, at my local shopping centre you can't get a disabled bay because someone is sitting in one without a blue badge waiting on Britney collecting and returning her valuable online shopping from Next.
Creepy that they watched his car for an hour!
They didn't, he admitted that bit
So whilst defending the fact she pulled over to answer the phone call whilst the engine was running for 12 minutes, she has inadvertently admitted she broke the law by being on her phone whilst in charge of a vehicle - " Engine running" 😂😂
It hasn't been specified if the lady was using any hands-free apparatus. It seems that the judge did not feel the need to clarify this point in this proceeding.
@arnolduk123 The law in England and Wales is in section 192(1) Road Traffic Act 1988 which says that a road is:
Any highway.
Any other road to which the public has access.
BBB has covered extensively what the law states in England and Wales about the use of mobile phones whilst in charge of a motor vehicle, maybe ask him about it.
@@daMagerLDN-B2 If she felt the need to pull over to take the call then she couldn't have been using hands-free surely
@@Rapid_GT It's possible she may have felt she needed to write down some details that were to be relayed to her. Due to the nature of the call that is described in the court document, that seems likely.
@@daMagerLDN-B2 Surely that would have been mentioned by her as the key reason to pull over and not just to take the call ! It's all speculation I guess but I just found that amusing when trying to get herself out of one predicament and putting herself into another.
Keep it simple. Keep to the point. This did not have to be such a long article. (How many “for reasons I will return to”) I got fed up and stopped half way through. I just couldn’t keep up with all the unnecessary bouncing around. Sorry. I do normally stay with your articles to the end, I am subscribed and remain so.
Parking is parking whether you leave the vehicle or not! It isn't stopping, you are parked up! For example, if you go to a drive in cinema, you stay in the car to watch the movie but you are still parked up! How can people think it's okay to park on double yellow lines for an hour just because they didn't leave the vehicle? Their stupidity is beyond belief!
Because the old Appeals court case mentioned in the video says parking means leaving your vehicle. Being in it ain't leaving it. With yellow lines though, they get you because they are NO WAITING or parking lines.
He's lost as soon as he claims an attended stationary vehicle isn't parked. Of course it is. Numpty
53 seconds in, and I already think I'm going to disagree with the viewer. Let's see what happens
Oh, please don't gurn in your thumbnail. We will click on it without over -the-top facial expressions.