🚨I made a followup video! ruclips.net/video/gsmqijBjBAc/видео.html 🚨 **Adendum** - This wasn't a brand new bottle, I've been using it around the shop and only noticed mild improvement which is what prompted the video. But I didn't do a bunch of sprays before the test so things maybe settled? I'll re-run the test and post an update (or video update) if it changes! - I have some "9H oleophobic" screen protectors on the machine (not pictured in the video) which actually do a pretty good job! Will see if I can unearth what/how they work - I did try the spray on the window and forgot to share how it went: about as good as the RainX style spray. Good for a few runs and then strips away. 😢 - Several good comments about how this might only work on soft surfaces (paint) or weathered/scratched up surfaces, whereas my glass slides were too pristine and it rubbed right off. Very possible! - AFM noise can be improved with isolation tables and isolation boxes. The nGauge is really good against noise so I don't usually bother, but I guess F-35s defeat even the nGauge 😂
I can't help but wonder what it might look like if you sprayed it on and then, instead of wiping it off, allowed it to evaporate. A few 'layers' of this should really fill out the field of view with ceramic particles?
I don't know whether you shook the bottle any more off camera before starting, but I don't think I'd call the amount of shaking you did on camera "shaking well"... Whether that'd make much difference I don't know - how fast do silica nanoparticles settle out? no idea.
@@StormBurnX That's more what I'd expect too; I haven't read the instructions myself of course but my intuition with a spray like this would be that you spray it on, allow it to dry, and then wiping with a microfibre is just to remove any streaks that are left after the solvent evaporates.
"Good for a few runs and then strips away" roughly matches my experience using RainX on my shower door, tbh! I often have my phone on a nearby shelf playing videos when I'm in the shower, so I try to keep at least a patch of glass free of condensation and scale from southern England's very hard water. A few layers from my _10-year-old_ bottle of RainX seems to help, but not for long enough given the effort of applying it 🤷♀️ Of course, newer bottles could be better; I've no idea! (Maybe one day I'll design & 3D print a phone mount to use in the shower... Water-resistant phone & case mounted away from most of the water ought to be fine, I think 🤔)
I work extensively with Si polymeric coating (and including some hydrophobic and oleophobic coatings) and here is my take on these “ceramic” coatings. They do work, they are effectively silicone polymer coating but the better ones are made with siloxane monomer with very specific functional groups to give the desired properties. For high quality ones they are basically monomers or oligomers in solution (usually an alcohol) that polymerize as the alcohol dries. The amorphous silica in the one you looked at was likely just a sol-gel and not hard particles of silica. It is used as a filler for the functional (expensive) siloxane monomers to bond with as it dries. Edit to add: While they do work, I would never consider them very durable compared to the automotive paint they are applied over (but more durable than most waxes). It would not surprise me if they needed to be reapplied every year, especially if you wash wipe down your car a lot. These are not hard "ceramics" but sol-gel and silicon polymers similar to thin PDMS or silicone caulking.
@@gingermany6223 any clue if there would be any benefit to applying the 3M ceramic coating to my cast iron table saw top as a rust inhibitor? Or on my shower door to prevent hard water spots?
There is zero benefit to these products. It’s literally a scam to have you pay for what wax does while also putting micro scratches and damage your paint over time. There is a reason real ceramic coating costs $1k+
@@gingermany6223 sorry to be a pest, but wondering if you had a moment to answer my question regarding the high end ceramic coating on cast iron and on shower doors.
I detail cars for a living and love everything science. This is literally the perfect video. Haven't watched it yet, but if you don't mention it in the video I'd love to see actual ceramic coatings and/or graphene coatings. Or products like Rain-X that leave a coating behind on glass. I try to imagine how thin the coatings are, but I wouldn't even know what to guess
That's what I was wondering as well. If a ceramic coating for a car would make any difference? And how would that coating look under the microscopes? I've seen some non-biased RUclips videos with those nanoparticle ceramic coatings. It sure seems to make the cars super shiny and bead water like you wouldn't believe.
I second the request for a closer look at ceramic coatings. You can pick up small amounts that are used by professional car detail for relatively cheap. My vehicle had a ceramic coated applied professionally and it worked great as water repellent. However, it only lasted a year or so and I don't see myself having it installed again due to the price. Nowadays, I see "ceramic" on all automotive detailing products in stores, including products for leather and fabrics...wtf? Definitely seems to be a marketing gimmick.
@@StatueofGuyThinking That's what i had in the back of my mind the whole video. Based on the, (impressive) results in the project farm video I would at least expect some noticeable and significant layer on the material. Like the pinned comment mentions, maybe the glass is just to smooth for it to really stick on.
@@BreakingTaps Do you realize this means you accidentally discovered a sensor that can detect one of the most expensive recently developed stealth aircraft? That's impressive.
These coatings are meant for clearcoat which is much softer than glass so I’m assuming the particles can more easily get embedded in the coating as opposed to glass which they will just wipe off
Exactly. I was an Automotive refinisher for over 25 years. I think a good wash and a coat of good silicon polish and or Carnauba wax is best to protect your car paint. I tend to think the Ceramic think is a big sales gimmick. Besides Is ceramic not an abrasive product anyway. The best thing you can do is keep your car out of the sun. Nothing will protect a surface indefinitely from UV rays.
This and I would imagine the coating of the Clearcoat finish to be much more porous than this glass. This stuff is not a replacement to rain-x nor does it claim anything on glass
Now if you were to run this experiment on the item it is intended for, that would be much more fascinating. That will truly debunk the advantages of these ceramic coatings
As a geology nerd, I was so excited for this. I know how amazing opal and chert can be. At first I thought it was going to be a lubricant using opal nanospheres as tiny little ball-bearings. Now I'm sad. THANKS, PRODUCT.
There's at least one more interpretation, maybe it's not that good at treating raw glass. The stuff is for cars, meant mostly for the paint but it's fine on all the typical car materials and in the worst case it would only be as effective as normal silicone coatings. It may also stick better to glass that has been exposed to weather and driving conditions for a while, maybe the silica* particles are better at sticking into tiny scratches, or something about exposure treats the glass so it's more receptive.
Hm that's a fair point. It does say it can be used on exterior glass, but perhaps it's really on effective on paint and scratched up surfaces. I'll sand some glass and see if we can get more of it to stick and maybe try on a painted or metal surface. Cheers!
@@BreakingTapshey! Did you wind up testing the scratched glass with the hydrophobic products? My thought immediately upon seeing the slides (man I miss playing with those as a kid), was just how damn slick they were when handling! I'm not sure what either glass looks like under a microscope, but I would assume some of these windshields on the road look like the grand canyon under a microscope and could sure use something to fill those fissures 😂
You should boil off the liquid and then burn the waxes. It will make it easier to see how much ceramic is actually in the mixture. It might be due to your glass being too clean and it being buffed off with the towel.
This is what I was thinking, a lot more of the coating will stick to a painted surface than glass. It makes sense that it forms a poor coating on glass, there's not anything for it to bond to.
That's the best one. Turtle wax hasn't been very good until their last formula. Saw a test of several different more expensive brands. And that one won by far! Works like a charm! Surfaces become super hydrophobic. Use it everywhere.
This immediately suggests to me another product to try - 'Novamin', a trademarked phosphosilicate formulation used by Sensodyne in toothpastes, supposed to adhere to tooth enamel, smoothening the surface and coating it with a protective silicate layer (yes, the claims go as far as granting acid-resistant glass-coated teeth). Would love to see this kind of home experiment with the stuff. (for that matter, examining tooth surfaces under AFM, and seeing how initial damage begets additional as the surface becomes craggy and thus has increased food particle adsorption)
I don't think this stuff is actually going to work, but I think what you sprayed was what was in the hose. It might be worth trying again and making sure to spray enough to replace the fluid in the intake. It will probably end up similar though.
One other thought: In watchmaking they use Epilame to prevent oil from getting into areas it is undesirable. It is crazy effective. You might want to try that. The cost is high in quantity, but it is actually fairly durable. The thing is, the coating is so thin, they state it is undetectable other than the effect. It would be very interesting to see under the microscope.
It's a good point! I neglected to mention that I've used this a bunch around the shop already so it was pretty well primed. I pinned a comment since that seems like it'll be a common question/point. Silly of me not to mention it! 🤦♀️
If the silica settles out you may have sprayed most of it at some earlier time where you didn't properly shake the bottle, since the siphon tube pulls from the bottom. I assume the particles are supposed to make the water bead up around them through surface tension, leaving the rest of the glass water free.
You should check out maybe the n3 nano coating that blacktail studio uses for wood finishing. I'd be interested to see what that looks like on a small scale, and wether it would work well as a protection in the CNC enclosure.
@@gorak9000 the n3 coating isn't a spray, it's put on with a sponge like applicator, and has shown remarkable durability as a wood finish, so it definitely has something to it. Wether that is actually nano graphene or ceramics or some other film that it is creating is another question though.
@@joshwarner5676 can you actually order that overpriced snake oil? Their website says join the waitlist, their Shopify store says it ships at the end of the month, both might be out of date. In any case, I don't need to pay $120 + S/H to know the promo copy is intense marketing BS.
@@emislive I haven't personally tried it. Just seen some videos showing some impressive looking results, which is why I'd like to see verification from someone else of what it actually looks like at a micro scale and how well it works.
@@joshwarner5676 more on ceramic coatings would be great to see! Less productive rant follows... There's a lot of smoke blown around wood finishing, and online, so I get critical. A lot of nebulous, confusing and/or misleading claims are made about consumer "ceramic" coatings of various kinds. I see Blacktail make some claims that reach really hard about a product that is priced significant;y above comparable.
what about the coatings advertise as "9H ceramic coatings"? seem to work surprisingly well, usually come in a small bottle; i guess the main ingredient is something like waterglass?
Unsure, but I have some screen protectors with that coating (supposedly) and they do indeed work really well! I'll see if I can track down a bottle to spray and check
Take a drop of this product let it dry then use oxygen plasma to remove waxes that will leave you with glass / ceramic particles if there are any. I would do it directly on SEM stub probably tho.
Ooh, I like that! Will give it a shot and post a followup if there's anything interesting! Think I'll need to polish up the stud first, mine are _very_ rough and hard to see anything micron-sized or smaller. Would be nice though since I could EDS it for more confirmation (but was useless on glass substrate).
Depends on what you are trying to do with it. Ceramics are really just a metal and a mineral mixed together and in many cases they have very different properties but we have hard and soft metals and minerals that take on many different crystal forms. This allows you to mix and match a lot of properties and parameters to what you are trying to do. In some cases, it is the hardness or other physical property being used, such as in armor. Other times it is the heat transfer or heat resistance. Then there is particle shapes that accomplish certain things jagged particles can interlock to make a tight bond before sintering (making cups or plates) or can be used to scratch, polish, buff or grind. Round hard particles can work as a bearing or flat platelike particles can slide, working as lubricants.
It might be interesting to measure an amount and let it dry on a surface without wiping. You might be able to quantify the amount of particles left behind. Perhaps the ceramic acts more as a fine polish that buffs out scratches and makes paint look better? It doesn't seem like there is much there!
I wonder if the problem is that the glass slide is very hard compared to automotive paint. It could be that the silica particles are designed to be buffed into the paint, which effectively embeds them in the paint. Glass is hard, so they can't dig in. I take this concept from the principles of lapping, where you load a soft lap (often copper or aluminum) with abrasive to make a tool that will improve the surface of a much harder metal. Robin Renzetti has some great videos on lapping if you are interested. Tom Lipton of Ox Tools too, come to think of it.
If I imagine "buffing" silica particles into paint, I'm thinking you're doing abrasion with some particles digging in enough to stay. Automotive paint is plastic. I really can't imagine how embedded silica particles are providing "protection" when they're functionally acting as an abrasive. I'm guessing that the carrier solution is akin to the hydrophobic film that RainX leaves, and that provides the short-term feedback of the surface shedding water. The silica looks like marketing hype and the thin film would likely be as short-lived as RainX.
2 things. 1. The RUclips channel Project Farm did a test with a bunch of ceramic coatings. This same brand you used was the winner in something like a 6 month test. The results left no doubt that it does do something good to car paint, and the manufacturer does say it can be used on glass too. 2. I tried my own experiments a. on a junker cast iron pan and b. on my glass shower door, but had poor results in both. I was hoping it would work as a protective coating on my cast iron woodworking tools and kill the hard water marks on my glass doors. The mixed results from your test, project farm, and my own make me wonder if settling is a big issue. I wonder what the bottom of the inside of the bottle looks like…
Oops! I did forget! It works about as well as the RainX variety: good for a few runs and then washes away. The best I've found are "9H Oleophobic" screen protectors (like for tablets and phones). Whatever they are coated with works really well and lasts a long time, and the tempered glass helps protect the machine's glass.
What about an air blade? Need to machine an air nozzle with a thin slot in it - if you can get a nice "blade" of air coming out of it, it might be enough to keep the coolant off the glass in enough area to see through with a camera
@@gorak9000 I've seen the ones made on Edge Precision channel to keep the cameras clear inside the Mazak enclosure. If all you want is to get the coolant to run off the lexan I wonder about something like Liquiglide where there's a combination of micro surface texture and a hydro or olio phobic component filling those pits. 🤔
I've used the 3M ceramic coating on cars, as well as on the windows, with great results. It's a bit pricy, but definitely worth it! Maybe you could try that one in a future video? For use on the windows of cars there is also a pre-treatment spray that you can buy with the ceramic coating kit, but I'm not sure what it exactly is and what it does. I've never tried coating windows without the pre-treatment so I can't say if it's necessary or not.
These "ceramic" sprays are notorious for showing little improvement over older, silicone-based waxes on automotive glass. Typically, however, they perform equal to silicones (or better) on paint in terms of smoothness, clarity, etc., but their durability is what truly makes them shine. These products commonly maintain their full hydrophobic properties 3-5x longer than their silicone brethren. They are also found to "build up" on the paint through repeated use, not unlike the seasoning layer on a cast iron pan, though not to the detriment of the finish (the way that traditional, natural waxes, such as carnauba do). Because vehicle paint is significantly softer than glass (paint hardness also varies between brands and vehicles), it's possible that, as the product is applied, the nanoparticles are deposited into the surface of the paint. This is most likely the reason the bottle tells you "do not over-apply". More product makes for more solvent, which is counterproductive when the goal is to remove the solvent and leave a thin, even coating of material behind.
The problem is that regardless of the fact that these coatings are proving to be as or more durable than traditional coatings, it is very likely NOT the presence of ceramic particles that is responsible more likely some sort of new type of silicon-based polymer wax.. My theory is that the production process leaves silica particle precipitates that are difficult or costly to remove, but testing showed that the particles were harmless therefore some clever marketing wank had the brilliant idea of just leaving the garbage in the formula and telling everyone its a magic ingredient instead and charging more for the product....
@@Flying0Dismount that theory would hold water if the formulations were substantially different than silicone-based waxes, but they generally are not. The main changes vs older, non-ceramic, silicone-based waxes basically boil down to the amorphous silica and various chemicals meant to support it. Clearly, one of those ingredients is extending the useful life of the properly applied product substantially.
Turtle Wax itself has actually been going through its older product lines and adding the "ceramic" ingredients to new formulations. "Seal N Shine" is one of the most well-know and widely-used waxes commonly available, and for good reason, but it's always had a durability problem. That durability problem is substantially mitigated in the new, "ceramic" reformulation. So, the question is, how did the mere addition of "garbage" improve the product's durability with no substantial drawbacks?
If the endeavour is to have a clear view in your cnc. Have a look at hydrofiel substances. I ride a motorcycle and the visor in my helmet has a coating of sorts which is hydrofiel. The vizor brand is pinlock. I also know of hydrofobe sprays and they don't work. pinlock does work. perhaps also in an cnc?
Will take a look! I installed some tablet/screen protectors with some kind of special coating which does an OK job. Will look into that coating and see if I can get some or apply it to the windows!
As it relates to the problem of coolant on the windows of the mill, AvE did a good video a few years back where he tried to make his own water shedding spinner window thingy. Could be a fun project to piece together, and it might solve your problem better than this stuff does.
after you shake the bottle, it takes several pumps to get the agitated product up the feed tube and out the nozzle. you should give it several pumps to purge the feed tube before applying it onto your test substrate.
Some researchers have made superhydrophobic cotton, by coating it in silica and titania. (wikipedia page "superhydrophobisity", under potential applications links to some research papers) But that involved a multi-step process, and not one pre-mixxed product, that can be applied in one go. So theoretically one could make a way better coating with a "phase 1", "phase 2", "phase 3" carwax, instead of it being one component.
The surfaces we spray these ceramic liquids on are EXTREMELY porous. No mfg claims that they are great for glass which his one of the smoothest substances.
Knowing how amorphous silica is extremely hydrophobic makes me wonder if the sparse spattering of nanoparticles is still enough to disrupt the surface tension of the water in each area to such an extent that the water is unable to wet out the surface, and ends up coalescing into a droplet as a result.
Thanks for a well done report. I am a chemist and have often wondered what is in “ceramic” coatings. Looks like just a bunch of silicone water repellents.Looks like “ceramic” is just another example of co-opting a scientific word or phrase for marketing to an ignorant public. Truly clean glass will sheet off water and NOT bead. It’s a bit of a project though to get it that clean.
Now that you know how it works as a product, could you centrifuge a sample to inspect more of the actual particles. Or just dip a slide and let it fully dry.
Take a look into the siloxane, my understanding is "true" ceramic coatings are organometallic compounds in a carrier solvent that precipitate a xerogel coating that is technically a metal oxide (ceramic). Often you will see titanium listed, this is different from titanium nitride coated blades, but also a ceramic
For the CNC window, I'd say use a phone glass protector "glass type", they have the coating, they have abrasion resistant surface, if you apply them on the inside of the machine window and keep it bubble free it should work great. they are also cheap and easy to apply and remove. the UV cure and optically bonded ones are even better.
There is this product which is supposed to make windshield wipers obsolete. Part of how it works is of course by being hydrophobic, but a part of it is also just filling in scratches and pits in your windshield. It might be that that is what the silica is for if you use the product consistently
you could try plasma activating the glass surface before spraying on the coating. Exposing the glass slide to ie a low pressure inductively coupled plasma will add reactive hydroxyl groups to the surface of the glass that will more readily bond to silica in the coating. this is the same process used in microfluidic microfabrication to bond glass to PDMS.
Another cool test 👏🏼 Please test a wipe-on Si-based automotive protection like Gtechniq or similar if it's at all possible! They are clearly effective and the results would be captivating. Keep it up mate.
This would be such a great idea for a full video series! There are so many products advertising with magic-nano-graphene-molecule technology! You get the product and find out the actual science behind the claims. This would be so interesting, both from a science and consumer standpoint
As a detailer most "ceramic" spray type coatings don't work well on glass at all. As for paint, it definitely lasts longer and is more hydrophobic than a traditional 100% carnauba wax. Now what we call "true" ceramic coatings or ones that come in a glass bottle around 30-50ml and require application by hand are probably more what you were expecting. That specific turtle wax product I've had last up to 3 months vs a true ceramic has lasted 3+ years.
One thing that may have messed up your experiment, is you were applying to a small square of glass but the directions were written for a glass the size of a car's windshield. If you were applying to something that large using the towel you had you would wave wiped a larger amount around the whole surface area and at least partially saturated the rag. It seems like that would mean you smear more of it around the windshield vs swiping it up with a clean rag. I think that would leave more residue spread more evenly. Maybe try to saturate part of a rag on the tip of your finger, then you could wipe it on more like a wax than a quick rinse. Try to smear some across the surface area . Just an idea, definitely not sure it would matter.
I've thought about using a tablet screen protector on the inside of a mill. They are hard glass, have hydrophobic properties, should withstand the chips better than the poly panels, and when they do wear out, peel it off and replace it with another. Unfortunately my boss didn't see it as worth his time, and i dont care enough to spend my own time and money, so I have no idea how it actually works.
If I may- I think the part where it's applied as a spray & let dry before wiping is important; small droplets of solvent carrying particles dry up & deposit the particles without most of the particles being washed off in an excess of solvent!
Awesome experiments! Can I suggest using some kind of clear coat? It was my assumption that these types of coatings have some kind of adherence to rougher surfaces or surfaces which have paint like conditions? I'm probably wrong, but it might be worth looking into?
Also, you should definitely check out Scott HD's channel on RUclips. He has extensive testing on ceramics and I believe he's done a comparison between general wax, ceramics, and hybrids? He would be a good source to check in with as well! Just some food for thought!
Suggestion: instead of using the bottle the product came in, use a micron atomizer and try diluting the base product progressively, and then skip wiping the surface. From what I can tell is that the cloth is wiping the product off. It seems best to just a case of their directions is dooming the product. On the other hand, maybe you are supposed to wait and wipe it after you let it dry. One way to determine what is in the product is to get the MSDS on it, and also get hold of one of the other guys who has a XRF spectrometer and do a spectroscopic analysis of the dried chemicals [you would be best in this case to pour some into a shallow tray like a petri dish, a baking pan or a shallow steel, copper or aluminum dish, or a HDPE lid but in such a way that once it driest, you pull the product away from the container and support it in some kind of edge holder so you can just focus the X-rays on only the dried product.
After shaking it you need to spray 3 to 4 times to clear the spray tube tan spray it on what your using it on wait a cupule minutes than wipe it . the particles seam to fall onto the bottom of the container and when shaking you are not going to really get any particles to mix inside the liquid that is already in the tube.
Weird tip from a photography friend in college, If you need canned air without the bitterant in it (it puts a nasty coating on fine lenses) buy Smith and Weston gun duster. You get a big can for a reasonable price, unlike the photo or scientific canned air which has about a tenth as much for triple the cost. It's all the same stuff it used to be before every news channel decided to tell kids they could huff it.
It'd be interesting to see if a nanoscale structure could be etched onto a glass slide (either optically or chemically) to provide a hydrophobic effect. Another possibility could be a sputtered coating that is either selectively blocked by an initial step (something blocking the sputtering sticking in a controlled manner) or removed by a secondary process.
It does not provide a solid surface coat. Instead, it's small blobs that are hydrophobic. The scratch resistance is also provided by these blobs: if, for example, you swipe a golf ball on this surface, the blobs act as floats for it, so the ball is not scratching directly on the surface, but wearing and rolling on the blobs. That's how it works for paint as well. with paint, because it's porous, it can also "sweat" out the particles when friction heats it.
I’m excited you are doing this kind of examination with the spray. I feel like you didn’t apply it right. I use this on glass and it surely makes the window repel water. Maybe you didnt spray and wipe while moist to spread around and then buff dry. There is certainly some kind of coating on the various vehicles I have this stuff applied on.
I use something similar on my car windows, it really works. The best ones last six months or something. The water beads off instead of forming a film and sticking to the glass.
You need to allow the coating to flash off, solvents that carry silica compunds. Also youll need a glass specific as most are designed to adhere to clear coat and the general sparay style are very low silica. Get a pro grade glass bottle wipe on, flash off and level. They are 15% or more silica. Real low pH chemicals will kill the coating and probably why many use spinning portals
Under car coating has a discussion what is the best: water shearing on top of the coating or water beading over the coating. I believe the ceramic particles are just there to help the nucleation of new water beads.
I havent read all of the comments. I'll assume its been pointed out already but if not: nanoparticle coatings are supposed to create self-cleaning, high energy, low wetting "super hydrophobic" tribological effects by disrupting the surface regularity in just like microroughening* or surface patterning, ie in usually pointed to reference example of the smartphone glass display, the bioinspiration of the Rose petal, or more technically in modified glass, quartz, or silicon subtstrate so that a microfluidic device will exhibit a "no slip" boundary layer effect and increased performance in terms of the usual paramters like mixing, backpressure, and heat transfer, or a "self cleaining" effect, as is important for medical devices like flow cytometry lab on chip systems, among others. Incidentally its something you could reproduce with your laser marker (notably for microfluidic applications)...... DOnt yell at me if you already did and I'm clueless to your prior work! Its tough to say.... Im a very cynical person with very low faith in humanity, so I canimagine that its a load of hogwash and the silica is just inert filler like in cosmetics. Its also possible that its a real product and that the manufacturer has underestimated and under-directed how much agitation is needed to resuspend the particles once the bottle has set for a while Conside the anecdotal example of latex emulsion paint from Home Depot; that stuff requires around 30minutes of agitation to get it suspended. Its also possible that the product expired on the shelf more rapidly than advertised b y self-aggregation (irreversibly) due to interactions between the silica, silicones, and aliphatic compounds.
Funny you bring this up... I was recently ranting about abuse of the word "ceramic" in cookware marketing.... Seems like its spready🙈... TX for the video!
Spent 7 years an electron microscopist.. great fun ..sem, tem. I use that product and it works better, longer, and beading is better than rainx.. less of the fog effect which occurs with rainx. Great for paint of car as well although seems to attract dust. Let us know how it works in your machine
I think you may be missing the whole point of the silica additive. The micro surface height of the silica would increase the durability of the fluid applied to the glass.
If you’re looking for a glass solution the best I’ve used is Crystal Fusion windshield coating. It’s a 2 step coating. Not an ad but I’ve worked a lot with vehicle body and exterior. Works a lot better than the sprays.
perhaps a sort of windshield wiper device could also address your problem, but i would worry about it malfunctioning due to being constantly subjected to the emulsion
You should probably use a true ceramic coating with 9H hardness. The kind that lasts like 5 years. Then just use a topcoat from time to time to boost the effect. I would also use some cutting polish to put micro scratches on the glass then apply ceramic. The polish won't effect visibility at all but it will give the ceramic a way to bind
I think it’s the surface you applied it on, it’s not rain-x compare a glass slide to a painted surface. Then you might see more retained on the painted surface. Maybe change your coolant ?
A long time ago I watched a video on siloxane and that stuff is scary! It's a clear liquid that turns into silicon dioxide (sand, glass, quartz) on contact with water. So you can imagine how fun it would be to get it in your very water eyes or lungs. Either way, it was really cool to watch it being poured into a beaker of water and instantly turning into silica. I believe this was on NileRed many years ago.
Try a long duration spray on the slide and let dry and dont wipe it at all, just to see how many silica particles a single spray will yield 🤷♂just a thought
Haha sorry! I completely forgot to close the loop on that. I tried, and it works about as well as the RainX variety of spray: good for a few runs and then stripped away by the coolant 🙃
Try a quality semipermanent ceramic coating. Not sure if I have this correct, but this type of coating contains ceramic crystals suspended in a resin. Most of these coatings have a much higher concentration of silica than the sprays. I've coated my car in this stuff and it definitely seems legit. The channel Warped Perception did a pretty good video on this. However didn't use any specialised equipment or in-depth know to analyse the samples.
The ceramic coatings used on automobile paint expect the surface to be completely unlike a new glass slide. Paint under magnification looks like the surface of the moon. Very rough and uneven. The ceramic spray grabs onto the defects in the paint, which is why it works. In the CNC booth, it might work better if there is some 'tooth' to the surface of the plexiglass, which there probably is because of all the micro blemishes due to flying chips from the milling head.
It seems worth keeping in mind that this is an incredibly cheap version of an very high end product. The amorphous silicone content of products like Cquartz is going to be far higher but that's also why they usually cost 10 times as much for a 20th of the amount. But they do work
I've seen a lot of folks use ipad screen protectors on the inside of their CNC machines which seemed like it works fairly well. I've only seen it tried online but I'd say it's worth a shot.
You should absolutely try and get into contact with Larry from Ammo NYC, he could maybe shed some more light on what actually goes into these products chemically and what they're meant to do physically
What about a piece of glass that is subject to the elements? Like a a wind-shield or a window? The "elements" make invisible scratches, and the particles accumulate in and around them, and make the surface smoother. effectively eliminating places for gunk and grime to hitch.
Our house is under a frequent route for Navy Ospreys. Even at ~2500 feet above ground, They shake the house almost as much as our washer on spin cycle.
I use this spray to protect my car from a group of locals that attack my car with various chemicals like brake-fluid and solvents. It definitely works and provides protection. I would try two areas and attack a material with a acids/solvents then check the differences. I stand by the claims made on the bottle - amazing product.
Nobody ever said this ceramic spray was for glass. Project Farm did a real test on clear coat using the same hood taped off. He compared all the waxes and silicone sprays in the same way, then washed them repeatedly with soap to see how long they lasted. Turtle Wax silicone spray was the longest lasting and clear winner. I have been using this stuff for two years on my pickup and not only does it make a good shine but is far easier to put on than any wax I have ever used. Why don't you try it on your own vehicle and see what you think using eyes to determine if it works?
I believe that the silica is to provide nucleation sites for water to bead up easier. Williams F1 developed a ceramic coat to try and get a few more mph from their cars there is no data as to if it worked.
Where are very expensive ceramic coating , in very tiny bottles. They do help, but not for long. I use it for motorcycle helmet visor. They make surface very slippery and hard.
Not familiar with this product but others require it to be applied lightly and then allow it to dry to a haze before wiping it off. Maybe doing so would allow more to stick to the glass.
🚨I made a followup video! ruclips.net/video/gsmqijBjBAc/видео.html 🚨
**Adendum**
- This wasn't a brand new bottle, I've been using it around the shop and only noticed mild improvement which is what prompted the video. But I didn't do a bunch of sprays before the test so things maybe settled? I'll re-run the test and post an update (or video update) if it changes!
- I have some "9H oleophobic" screen protectors on the machine (not pictured in the video) which actually do a pretty good job! Will see if I can unearth what/how they work
- I did try the spray on the window and forgot to share how it went: about as good as the RainX style spray. Good for a few runs and then strips away. 😢
- Several good comments about how this might only work on soft surfaces (paint) or weathered/scratched up surfaces, whereas my glass slides were too pristine and it rubbed right off. Very possible!
- AFM noise can be improved with isolation tables and isolation boxes. The nGauge is really good against noise so I don't usually bother, but I guess F-35s defeat even the nGauge 😂
I can't help but wonder what it might look like if you sprayed it on and then, instead of wiping it off, allowed it to evaporate. A few 'layers' of this should really fill out the field of view with ceramic particles?
This is simply amazing. Incredible work! I always wondered whether detail products actually creates UV protection or is a gimmick!
I don't know whether you shook the bottle any more off camera before starting, but I don't think I'd call the amount of shaking you did on camera "shaking well"...
Whether that'd make much difference I don't know - how fast do silica nanoparticles settle out? no idea.
@@StormBurnX That's more what I'd expect too; I haven't read the instructions myself of course but my intuition with a spray like this would be that you spray it on, allow it to dry, and then wiping with a microfibre is just to remove any streaks that are left after the solvent evaporates.
"Good for a few runs and then strips away" roughly matches my experience using RainX on my shower door, tbh!
I often have my phone on a nearby shelf playing videos when I'm in the shower, so I try to keep at least a patch of glass free of condensation and scale from southern England's very hard water. A few layers from my _10-year-old_ bottle of RainX seems to help, but not for long enough given the effort of applying it 🤷♀️ Of course, newer bottles could be better; I've no idea!
(Maybe one day I'll design & 3D print a phone mount to use in the shower... Water-resistant phone & case mounted away from most of the water ought to be fine, I think 🤔)
I work extensively with Si polymeric coating (and including some hydrophobic and oleophobic coatings) and here is my take on these “ceramic” coatings. They do work, they are effectively silicone polymer coating but the better ones are made with siloxane monomer with very specific functional groups to give the desired properties. For high quality ones they are basically monomers or oligomers in solution (usually an alcohol) that polymerize as the alcohol dries. The amorphous silica in the one you looked at was likely just a sol-gel and not hard particles of silica. It is used as a filler for the functional (expensive) siloxane monomers to bond with as it dries.
Edit to add: While they do work, I would never consider them very durable compared to the automotive paint they are applied over (but more durable than most waxes). It would not surprise me if they needed to be reapplied every year, especially if you wash wipe down your car a lot. These are not hard "ceramics" but sol-gel and silicon polymers similar to thin PDMS or silicone caulking.
@Zak N the 3M products are good quality. They are just siloxanes and the alcohol solvent (no amorphous fillers, waxes, etc).
@@gingermany6223 any clue if there would be any benefit to applying the 3M ceramic coating to my cast iron table saw top as a rust inhibitor? Or on my shower door to prevent hard water spots?
There is zero benefit to these products. It’s literally a scam to have you pay for what wax does while also putting micro scratches and damage your paint over time. There is a reason real ceramic coating costs $1k+
@@SETHHIKARU have you watched the video from @projectfarm ? You might be surprised by the results.
@@gingermany6223 sorry to be a pest, but wondering if you had a moment to answer my question regarding the high end ceramic coating on cast iron and on shower doors.
For a CNC window, a spinning clear acrylic disc is probably the best solution
AvE has a spinning window meant for marine use, works for him.
Would be interesting to try a "professional" grade automotive ceramic product
Good idea. That's the sort of video that would get a lot of views!
I detail cars for a living and love everything science. This is literally the perfect video. Haven't watched it yet, but if you don't mention it in the video I'd love to see actual ceramic coatings and/or graphene coatings. Or products like Rain-X that leave a coating behind on glass. I try to imagine how thin the coatings are, but I wouldn't even know what to guess
That's what I was wondering as well. If a ceramic coating for a car would make any difference? And how would that coating look under the microscopes? I've seen some non-biased RUclips videos with those nanoparticle ceramic coatings. It sure seems to make the cars super shiny and bead water like you wouldn't believe.
I second the request for a closer look at ceramic coatings. You can pick up small amounts that are used by professional car detail for relatively cheap. My vehicle had a ceramic coated applied professionally and it worked great as water repellent. However, it only lasted a year or so and I don't see myself having it installed again due to the price. Nowadays, I see "ceramic" on all automotive detailing products in stores, including products for leather and fabrics...wtf? Definitely seems to be a marketing gimmick.
@@StatueofGuyThinking That's what i had in the back of my mind the whole video. Based on the, (impressive) results in the project farm video I would at least expect some noticeable and significant layer on the material. Like the pinned comment mentions, maybe the glass is just to smooth for it to really stick on.
Yes please
One of the guys my work tried rain-x. Didn't seem to do much
I didn't realize AFM stood for Air Force Microscope 😆 Excellent work, and thank you for bringing us along on your quest of curiousity!
😂
@@BreakingTaps Do you realize this means you accidentally discovered a sensor that can detect one of the most expensive recently developed stealth aircraft?
That's impressive.
AFM stands for atomic force microscope
@@tack122there is no acoustically stealth aircraft... Well.. I take that back... Maybe a glider.
@TheRalliowiec Yeah but we don't have to let all those facts get in the way of an impressive sounding sentence.
I wonder if the particles are meant to fill in scratches to provide a smoother surface making it harder for things to stick.
These coatings are meant for clearcoat which is much softer than glass so I’m assuming the particles can more easily get embedded in the coating as opposed to glass which they will just wipe off
Exactly. I was an Automotive refinisher for over 25 years. I think a good wash and a coat of good silicon polish and or Carnauba wax is best to protect your car paint. I tend to think the Ceramic think is a big sales gimmick. Besides Is ceramic not an abrasive product anyway. The best thing you can do is keep your car out of the sun. Nothing will protect a surface indefinitely from UV rays.
This and I would imagine the coating of the Clearcoat finish to be much more porous than this glass. This stuff is not a replacement to rain-x nor does it claim anything on glass
Now if you were to run this experiment on the item it is intended for, that would be much more fascinating. That will truly debunk the advantages of these ceramic coatings
As a geology nerd, I was so excited for this. I know how amazing opal and chert can be. At first I thought it was going to be a lubricant using opal nanospheres as tiny little ball-bearings.
Now I'm sad. THANKS, PRODUCT.
Yeah! I was picturing a sea of opal-like particles too! Glad I'm not the only one that was expecting that 😄 Alas
There's at least one more interpretation, maybe it's not that good at treating raw glass. The stuff is for cars, meant mostly for the paint but it's fine on all the typical car materials and in the worst case it would only be as effective as normal silicone coatings. It may also stick better to glass that has been exposed to weather and driving conditions for a while, maybe the silica* particles are better at sticking into tiny scratches, or something about exposure treats the glass so it's more receptive.
Hm that's a fair point. It does say it can be used on exterior glass, but perhaps it's really on effective on paint and scratched up surfaces. I'll sand some glass and see if we can get more of it to stick and maybe try on a painted or metal surface. Cheers!
@@BreakingTaps it works great on my windshield
@@BreakingTapshey! Did you wind up testing the scratched glass with the hydrophobic products? My thought immediately upon seeing the slides (man I miss playing with those as a kid), was just how damn slick they were when handling! I'm not sure what either glass looks like under a microscope, but I would assume some of these windshields on the road look like the grand canyon under a microscope and could sure use something to fill those fissures 😂
You should boil off the liquid and then burn the waxes. It will make it easier to see how much ceramic is actually in the mixture. It might be due to your glass being too clean and it being buffed off with the towel.
Right, distill off the liquids under a vacuum.
But this is not the use case of the product, nor would anyone using this Spray do that
This is what I was thinking, a lot more of the coating will stick to a painted surface than glass. It makes sense that it forms a poor coating on glass, there's not anything for it to bond to.
even just wiping off the liquid .000001 seconds after spraying it on seems like a user error.
That's the best one. Turtle wax hasn't been very good until their last formula. Saw a test of several different more expensive brands. And that one won by far! Works like a charm! Surfaces become super hydrophobic. Use it everywhere.
This immediately suggests to me another product to try - 'Novamin', a trademarked phosphosilicate formulation used by Sensodyne in toothpastes, supposed to adhere to tooth enamel, smoothening the surface and coating it with a protective silicate layer (yes, the claims go as far as granting acid-resistant glass-coated teeth). Would love to see this kind of home experiment with the stuff. (for that matter, examining tooth surfaces under AFM, and seeing how initial damage begets additional as the surface becomes craggy and thus has increased food particle adsorption)
I don't think this stuff is actually going to work, but I think what you sprayed was what was in the hose. It might be worth trying again and making sure to spray enough to replace the fluid in the intake. It will probably end up similar though.
One other thought: In watchmaking they use Epilame to prevent oil from getting into areas it is undesirable. It is crazy effective. You might want to try that. The cost is high in quantity, but it is actually fairly durable. The thing is, the coating is so thin, they state it is undetectable other than the effect. It would be very interesting to see under the microscope.
It's a good point! I neglected to mention that I've used this a bunch around the shop already so it was pretty well primed. I pinned a comment since that seems like it'll be a common question/point. Silly of me not to mention it! 🤦♀️
Will take a look at that Epilame stuff, sounds great!
I hope you will buy and test other Ceramic coatings. I'd love to know which ones actually have value and aren't gimmicky. Thanks for your hard work!
If the silica settles out you may have sprayed most of it at some earlier time where you didn't properly shake the bottle, since the siphon tube pulls from the bottom. I assume the particles are supposed to make the water bead up around them through surface tension, leaving the rest of the glass water free.
You should check out maybe the n3 nano coating that blacktail studio uses for wood finishing. I'd be interested to see what that looks like on a small scale, and wether it would work well as a protection in the CNC enclosure.
I have a feeling all these newfangled "miracle sprays" are all the same - "ceramic" "nano" marketing BS
@@gorak9000 the n3 coating isn't a spray, it's put on with a sponge like applicator, and has shown remarkable durability as a wood finish, so it definitely has something to it. Wether that is actually nano graphene or ceramics or some other film that it is creating is another question though.
@@joshwarner5676 can you actually order that overpriced snake oil? Their website says join the waitlist, their Shopify store says it ships at the end of the month, both might be out of date. In any case, I don't need to pay $120 + S/H to know the promo copy is intense marketing BS.
@@emislive I haven't personally tried it. Just seen some videos showing some impressive looking results, which is why I'd like to see verification from someone else of what it actually looks like at a micro scale and how well it works.
@@joshwarner5676 more on ceramic coatings would be great to see!
Less productive rant follows...
There's a lot of smoke blown around wood finishing, and online, so I get critical. A lot of nebulous, confusing and/or misleading claims are made about consumer "ceramic" coatings of various kinds. I see Blacktail make some claims that reach really hard about a product that is priced significant;y above comparable.
what about the coatings advertise as "9H ceramic coatings"? seem to work surprisingly well, usually come in a small bottle; i guess the main ingredient is something like waterglass?
Unsure, but I have some screen protectors with that coating (supposedly) and they do indeed work really well! I'll see if I can track down a bottle to spray and check
Take a drop of this product let it dry then use oxygen plasma to remove waxes that will leave you with glass / ceramic particles if there are any. I would do it directly on SEM stub probably tho.
Ooh, I like that! Will give it a shot and post a followup if there's anything interesting! Think I'll need to polish up the stud first, mine are _very_ rough and hard to see anything micron-sized or smaller. Would be nice though since I could EDS it for more confirmation (but was useless on glass substrate).
I would love to see a deep dive in to the science around ceramic coating. I’m looked for other videos and have not found much.
Depends on what you are trying to do with it. Ceramics are really just a metal and a mineral mixed together and in many cases they have very different properties but we have hard and soft metals and minerals that take on many different crystal forms. This allows you to mix and match a lot of properties and parameters to what you are trying to do. In some cases, it is the hardness or other physical property being used, such as in armor. Other times it is the heat transfer or heat resistance. Then there is particle shapes that accomplish certain things jagged particles can interlock to make a tight bond before sintering (making cups or plates) or can be used to scratch, polish, buff or grind. Round hard particles can work as a bearing or flat platelike particles can slide, working as lubricants.
Marketing science😂
It might be interesting to measure an amount and let it dry on a surface without wiping. You might be able to quantify the amount of particles left behind.
Perhaps the ceramic acts more as a fine polish that buffs out scratches and makes paint look better?
It doesn't seem like there is much there!
If you want have a clean view of your cnc. There is the option to mount a spinning "window" that flings the coolant of it.
I wonder if the problem is that the glass slide is very hard compared to automotive paint. It could be that the silica particles are designed to be buffed into the paint, which effectively embeds them in the paint. Glass is hard, so they can't dig in. I take this concept from the principles of lapping, where you load a soft lap (often copper or aluminum) with abrasive to make a tool that will improve the surface of a much harder metal. Robin Renzetti has some great videos on lapping if you are interested. Tom Lipton of Ox Tools too, come to think of it.
If I imagine "buffing" silica particles into paint, I'm thinking you're doing abrasion with some particles digging in enough to stay. Automotive paint is plastic. I really can't imagine how embedded silica particles are providing "protection" when they're functionally acting as an abrasive. I'm guessing that the carrier solution is akin to the hydrophobic film that RainX leaves, and that provides the short-term feedback of the surface shedding water. The silica looks like marketing hype and the thin film would likely be as short-lived as RainX.
2 things. 1. The RUclips channel Project Farm did a test with a bunch of ceramic coatings. This same brand you used was the winner in something like a 6 month test. The results left no doubt that it does do something good to car paint, and the manufacturer does say it can be used on glass too.
2. I tried my own experiments a. on a junker cast iron pan and b. on my glass shower door, but had poor results in both. I was hoping it would work as a protective coating on my cast iron woodworking tools and kill the hard water marks on my glass doors. The mixed results from your test, project farm, and my own make me wonder if settling is a big issue. I wonder what the bottom of the inside of the bottle looks like…
@gingermany any clue if the 3M product would work in my applications above? (Cast iron rust inhibition or for glass in my shower)
You forgot to answer one question about the ceramic spray that i had: Does it work in your cnc machine?
Oops! I did forget! It works about as well as the RainX variety: good for a few runs and then washes away. The best I've found are "9H Oleophobic" screen protectors (like for tablets and phones). Whatever they are coated with works really well and lasts a long time, and the tempered glass helps protect the machine's glass.
Nice video. Unfortunately if you're running high-pressure coolant, then the only viable way to get a clear view into your machine is a spin window.
Yeah I'm afraid you're probably right. I do have some screen protectors which help noticeably, but still not as clear as a spin window. Sigh 😢
What about an air blade? Need to machine an air nozzle with a thin slot in it - if you can get a nice "blade" of air coming out of it, it might be enough to keep the coolant off the glass in enough area to see through with a camera
@@gorak9000 I've seen the ones made on Edge Precision channel to keep the cameras clear inside the Mazak enclosure.
If all you want is to get the coolant to run off the lexan I wonder about something like Liquiglide where there's a combination of micro surface texture and a hydro or olio phobic component filling those pits. 🤔
@@jimurrata6785 I watch Edge Precision, but don't remember him ever making air blades. I'll have to go look for those videos...
I've used the 3M ceramic coating on cars, as well as on the windows, with great results. It's a bit pricy, but definitely worth it! Maybe you could try that one in a future video? For use on the windows of cars there is also a pre-treatment spray that you can buy with the ceramic coating kit, but I'm not sure what it exactly is and what it does. I've never tried coating windows without the pre-treatment so I can't say if it's necessary or not.
You should really do ceramic coatings rather than the spray
These "ceramic" sprays are notorious for showing little improvement over older, silicone-based waxes on automotive glass. Typically, however, they perform equal to silicones (or better) on paint in terms of smoothness, clarity, etc., but their durability is what truly makes them shine. These products commonly maintain their full hydrophobic properties 3-5x longer than their silicone brethren. They are also found to "build up" on the paint through repeated use, not unlike the seasoning layer on a cast iron pan, though not to the detriment of the finish (the way that traditional, natural waxes, such as carnauba do).
Because vehicle paint is significantly softer than glass (paint hardness also varies between brands and vehicles), it's possible that, as the product is applied, the nanoparticles are deposited into the surface of the paint. This is most likely the reason the bottle tells you "do not over-apply". More product makes for more solvent, which is counterproductive when the goal is to remove the solvent and leave a thin, even coating of material behind.
The problem is that regardless of the fact that these coatings are proving to be as or more durable than traditional coatings, it is very likely NOT the presence of ceramic particles that is responsible more likely some sort of new type of silicon-based polymer wax.. My theory is that the production process leaves silica particle precipitates that are difficult or costly to remove, but testing showed that the particles were harmless therefore some clever marketing wank had the brilliant idea of just leaving the garbage in the formula and telling everyone its a magic ingredient instead and charging more for the product....
Pretty sure it's like homeopathy - the less there is, the "better" it works. How can you watch this video and still buy into the snake oil?
@@Flying0Dismount that theory would hold water if the formulations were substantially different than silicone-based waxes, but they generally are not. The main changes vs older, non-ceramic, silicone-based waxes basically boil down to the amorphous silica and various chemicals meant to support it. Clearly, one of those ingredients is extending the useful life of the properly applied product substantially.
Turtle Wax itself has actually been going through its older product lines and adding the "ceramic" ingredients to new formulations. "Seal N Shine" is one of the most well-know and widely-used waxes commonly available, and for good reason, but it's always had a durability problem. That durability problem is substantially mitigated in the new, "ceramic" reformulation. So, the question is, how did the mere addition of "garbage" improve the product's durability with no substantial drawbacks?
@@gorak9000 you either didn't read my comment or you didn't care to understand it.
Next Christmas print out some Christmas cards using screwed up images from the jets flying, and give it to the pilots so they know they are loved. =]
If the endeavour is to have a clear view in your cnc. Have a look at hydrofiel substances. I ride a motorcycle and the visor in my helmet has a coating of sorts which is hydrofiel. The vizor brand is pinlock.
I also know of hydrofobe sprays and they don't work. pinlock does work. perhaps also in an cnc?
Will take a look! I installed some tablet/screen protectors with some kind of special coating which does an OK job. Will look into that coating and see if I can get some or apply it to the windows!
Ok, so, I wonder this works because water droplets are macro objects, and you don't need a lot of particles per MM to have an impact?
As it relates to the problem of coolant on the windows of the mill, AvE did a good video a few years back where he tried to make his own water shedding spinner window thingy. Could be a fun project to piece together, and it might solve your problem better than this stuff does.
I came here to say the exact same thing - AvE's solution is simple, elegant, and scales well as long as you're running decent shop air.
Spindow
It also works great on a snow shovel or blower.. no sticking snow. Apply when shovels is warm and dry.. 2 coats lasts several storms
after you shake the bottle, it takes several pumps to get the agitated product up the feed tube and out the nozzle. you should give it several pumps to purge the feed tube before applying it onto your test substrate.
Publishing negative and less exiting results is underappreciated. Thanks for the video!
Can't wait for the pivot to ruthless product reviews in the future. Good work man all your videos are tight.
Some researchers have made superhydrophobic cotton, by coating it in silica and titania. (wikipedia page "superhydrophobisity", under potential applications links to some research papers)
But that involved a multi-step process, and not one pre-mixxed product, that can be applied in one go.
So theoretically one could make a way better coating with a "phase 1", "phase 2", "phase 3" carwax, instead of it being one component.
The surfaces we spray these ceramic liquids on are EXTREMELY porous. No mfg claims that they are great for glass which his one of the smoothest substances.
Knowing how amorphous silica is extremely hydrophobic makes me wonder if the sparse spattering of nanoparticles is still enough to disrupt the surface tension of the water in each area to such an extent that the water is unable to wet out the surface, and ends up coalescing into a droplet as a result.
Thanks for a well done report. I am a chemist and have often wondered what is in “ceramic” coatings. Looks like just a bunch of silicone water repellents.Looks like “ceramic” is just another example of co-opting a scientific word or phrase for marketing to an ignorant public. Truly clean glass will sheet off water and NOT bead. It’s a bit of a project though to get it that clean.
Now that you know how it works as a product, could you centrifuge a sample to inspect more of the actual particles. Or just dip a slide and let it fully dry.
Interesting side note with the jet interference
Take a look into the siloxane, my understanding is "true" ceramic coatings are organometallic compounds in a carrier solvent that precipitate a xerogel coating that is technically a metal oxide (ceramic). Often you will see titanium listed, this is different from titanium nitride coated blades, but also a ceramic
For the CNC window, I'd say use a phone glass protector "glass type",
they have the coating, they have abrasion resistant surface, if you apply them on the inside of the machine window and keep it bubble free it should work great. they are also cheap and easy to apply and remove.
the UV cure and optically bonded ones are even better.
There is this product which is supposed to make windshield wipers obsolete. Part of how it works is of course by being hydrophobic, but a part of it is also just filling in scratches and pits in your windshield. It might be that that is what the silica is for if you use the product consistently
you could try plasma activating the glass surface before spraying on the coating. Exposing the glass slide to ie a low pressure inductively coupled plasma will add reactive hydroxyl groups to the surface of the glass that will more readily bond to silica in the coating. this is the same process used in microfluidic microfabrication to bond glass to PDMS.
Another cool test 👏🏼
Please test a wipe-on Si-based automotive protection like Gtechniq or similar if it's at all possible!
They are clearly effective and the results would be captivating. Keep it up mate.
This would be such a great idea for a full video series! There are so many products advertising with magic-nano-graphene-molecule technology! You get the product and find out the actual science behind the claims. This would be so interesting, both from a science and consumer standpoint
As a detailer most "ceramic" spray type coatings don't work well on glass at all. As for paint, it definitely lasts longer and is more hydrophobic than a traditional 100% carnauba wax. Now what we call "true" ceramic coatings or ones that come in a glass bottle around 30-50ml and require application by hand are probably more what you were expecting. That specific turtle wax product I've had last up to 3 months vs a true ceramic has lasted 3+ years.
One thing that may have messed up your experiment, is you were applying to a small square of glass but the directions were written for a glass the size of a car's windshield.
If you were applying to something that large using the towel you had you would wave wiped a larger amount around the whole surface area and at least partially saturated the rag. It seems like that would mean you smear more of it around the windshield vs swiping it up with a clean rag. I think that would leave more residue spread more evenly.
Maybe try to saturate part of a rag on the tip of your finger, then you could wipe it on more like a wax than a quick rinse. Try to smear some across the surface area . Just an idea, definitely not sure it would matter.
I've thought about using a tablet screen protector on the inside of a mill. They are hard glass, have hydrophobic properties, should withstand the chips better than the poly panels, and when they do wear out, peel it off and replace it with another. Unfortunately my boss didn't see it as worth his time, and i dont care enough to spend my own time and money, so I have no idea how it actually works.
As others have said, I'd love to see a real ceramic coating, like Avalon King, or similar, to see how they work & look at the microscopic level!
If I may- I think the part where it's applied as a spray & let dry before wiping is important; small droplets of solvent carrying particles dry up & deposit the particles without most of the particles being washed off in an excess of solvent!
Awesome experiments! Can I suggest using some kind of clear coat? It was my assumption that these types of coatings have some kind of adherence to rougher surfaces or surfaces which have paint like conditions? I'm probably wrong, but it might be worth looking into?
Also, you should definitely check out Scott HD's channel on RUclips. He has extensive testing on ceramics and I believe he's done a comparison between general wax, ceramics, and hybrids? He would be a good source to check in with as well! Just some food for thought!
I love that one of the most advanced and sophisticated imaging methods is essentially 'poke it with a stick'. Truly, we have come full circle.
Suggestion: instead of using the bottle the product came in, use a micron atomizer and try diluting the base product progressively, and then skip wiping the surface.
From what I can tell is that the cloth is wiping the product off.
It seems best to just a case of their directions is dooming the product.
On the other hand, maybe you are supposed to wait and wipe it after you let it dry.
One way to determine what is in the product is to get the MSDS on it, and also get hold of one of the other guys who has a XRF spectrometer and do a spectroscopic analysis of the dried chemicals [you would be best in this case to pour some into a shallow tray like a petri dish, a baking pan or a shallow steel, copper or aluminum dish, or a HDPE lid but in such a way that once it driest, you pull the product away from the container and support it in some kind of edge holder so you can just focus the X-rays on only the dried product.
After shaking it you need to spray 3 to 4 times to clear the spray tube tan spray it on what your using it on wait a cupule minutes than wipe it . the particles seam to fall onto the bottom of the container and when shaking you are not going to really get any particles to mix inside the liquid that is already in the tube.
Weird tip from a photography friend in college,
If you need canned air without the bitterant in it (it puts a nasty coating on fine lenses) buy Smith and Weston gun duster.
You get a big can for a reasonable price, unlike the photo or scientific canned air which has about a tenth as much for triple the cost. It's all the same stuff it used to be before every news channel decided to tell kids they could huff it.
It'd be interesting to see if a nanoscale structure could be etched onto a glass slide (either optically or chemically) to provide a hydrophobic effect.
Another possibility could be a sputtered coating that is either selectively blocked by an initial step (something blocking the sputtering sticking in a controlled manner) or removed by a secondary process.
I like how the analysis does not in any way involve the function of the product, but rather the function of very expensive microscopes.
What spray?
Thank you for making concise videos that don't waste my time.
It does not provide a solid surface coat. Instead, it's small blobs that are hydrophobic. The scratch resistance is also provided by these blobs: if, for example, you swipe a golf ball on this surface, the blobs act as floats for it, so the ball is not scratching directly on the surface, but wearing and rolling on the blobs. That's how it works for paint as well. with paint, because it's porous, it can also "sweat" out the particles when friction heats it.
I’m excited you are doing this kind of examination with the spray. I feel like you didn’t apply it right. I use this on glass and it surely makes the window repel water. Maybe you didnt spray and wipe while moist to spread around and then buff dry. There is certainly some kind of coating on the various vehicles I have this stuff applied on.
Dude thank you so much, please do car ceramic coatings/waxes too
I use something similar on my car windows, it really works. The best ones last six months or something. The water beads off instead of forming a film and sticking to the glass.
You need to allow the coating to flash off, solvents that carry silica compunds. Also youll need a glass specific as most are designed to adhere to clear coat and the general sparay style are very low silica. Get a pro grade glass bottle wipe on, flash off and level. They are 15% or more silica. Real low pH chemicals will kill the coating and probably why many use spinning portals
Under car coating has a discussion what is the best: water shearing on top of the coating or water beading over the coating. I believe the ceramic particles are just there to help the nucleation of new water beads.
I havent read all of the comments. I'll assume its been pointed out already but if not:
nanoparticle coatings are supposed to create self-cleaning, high energy, low wetting "super hydrophobic" tribological effects by disrupting the surface regularity in just like microroughening* or surface patterning, ie in usually pointed to reference example of the smartphone glass display, the bioinspiration of the Rose petal, or more technically in modified glass, quartz, or silicon subtstrate so that a microfluidic device will exhibit a "no slip" boundary layer effect and increased performance in terms of the usual paramters like mixing, backpressure, and heat transfer, or a "self cleaining" effect, as is important for medical devices like flow cytometry lab on chip systems, among others.
Incidentally its something you could reproduce with your laser marker (notably for microfluidic applications)...... DOnt yell at me if you already did and I'm clueless to your prior work!
Its tough to say.... Im a very cynical person with very low faith in humanity, so I canimagine that its a load of hogwash and the silica is just inert filler like in cosmetics.
Its also possible that its a real product and that the manufacturer has underestimated and under-directed how much agitation is needed to resuspend the particles once the bottle has set for a while
Conside the anecdotal example of latex emulsion paint from Home Depot; that stuff requires around 30minutes of agitation to get it suspended.
Its also possible that the product expired on the shelf more rapidly than advertised b y self-aggregation (irreversibly) due to interactions between the silica, silicones, and aliphatic compounds.
Funny you bring this up... I was recently ranting about abuse of the word "ceramic" in cookware marketing.... Seems like its spready🙈... TX for the video!
Spent 7 years an electron microscopist.. great fun ..sem, tem. I use that product and it works better, longer, and beading is better than rainx.. less of the fog effect which occurs with rainx. Great for paint of car as well although seems to attract dust. Let us know how it works in your machine
I think you may be missing the whole point of the silica additive. The micro surface height of the silica would increase the durability of the fluid applied to the glass.
If you’re looking for a glass solution the best I’ve used is Crystal Fusion windshield coating. It’s a 2 step coating. Not an ad but I’ve worked a lot with vehicle body and exterior. Works a lot better than the sprays.
You can use an iPad screen protector on the inside of the cnc to make a little window the coolant doesn’t stick to. Works good
perhaps a sort of windshield wiper device could also address your problem, but i would worry about it malfunctioning due to being constantly subjected to the emulsion
I would suggest you try a more heavy duty "real" coating like Gyeon CanCoat. These spray sealants are mostly marketing.
You should probably use a true ceramic coating with 9H hardness. The kind that lasts like 5 years. Then just use a topcoat from time to time to boost the effect. I would also use some cutting polish to put micro scratches on the glass then apply ceramic. The polish won't effect visibility at all but it will give the ceramic a way to bind
I think it’s the surface you applied it on, it’s not rain-x compare a glass slide to a painted surface. Then you might see more retained on the painted surface. Maybe change your coolant ?
A long time ago I watched a video on siloxane and that stuff is scary! It's a clear liquid that turns into silicon dioxide (sand, glass, quartz) on contact with water. So you can imagine how fun it would be to get it in your very water eyes or lungs. Either way, it was really cool to watch it being poured into a beaker of water and instantly turning into silica. I believe this was on NileRed many years ago.
Try a long duration spray on the slide and let dry and dont wipe it at all, just to see how many silica particles a single spray will yield 🤷♂just a thought
cool analysis...but did even you try it on the cnc enclosure window??? ultimately, its performance is all that matters.
Haha sorry! I completely forgot to close the loop on that. I tried, and it works about as well as the RainX variety of spray: good for a few runs and then stripped away by the coolant 🙃
@@BreakingTaps cool, then results are completely consistent! thanks. 😎
Should try those wipe-on or buff-on ceramic coatings they make for car windshields.
Might be better than the spray.
You can use a spin window... basically a motor spins a circular window and that keeps it clean.
Try a quality semipermanent ceramic coating. Not sure if I have this correct, but this type of coating contains ceramic crystals suspended in a resin. Most of these coatings have a much higher concentration of silica than the sprays. I've coated my car in this stuff and it definitely seems legit. The channel Warped Perception did a pretty good video on this. However didn't use any specialised equipment or in-depth know to analyse the samples.
I think wiping is for when you want to remove it later, not part of the application process.
The ceramic coatings used on automobile paint expect the surface to be completely unlike a new glass slide. Paint under magnification looks like the surface of the moon. Very rough and uneven. The ceramic spray grabs onto the defects in the paint, which is why it works. In the CNC booth, it might work better if there is some 'tooth' to the surface of the plexiglass, which there probably is because of all the micro blemishes due to flying chips from the milling head.
It seems worth keeping in mind that this is an incredibly cheap version of an very high end product. The amorphous silicone content of products like Cquartz is going to be far higher but that's also why they usually cost 10 times as much for a 20th of the amount. But they do work
I've seen a lot of folks use ipad screen protectors on the inside of their CNC machines which seemed like it works fairly well. I've only seen it tried online but I'd say it's worth a shot.
You should absolutely try and get into contact with Larry from Ammo NYC, he could maybe shed some more light on what actually goes into these products chemically and what they're meant to do physically
What about a piece of glass that is subject to the elements? Like a a wind-shield or a window? The "elements" make invisible scratches, and the particles accumulate in and around them, and make the surface smoother. effectively eliminating places for gunk and grime to hitch.
Our house is under a frequent route for Navy Ospreys. Even at ~2500 feet above ground, They shake the house almost as much as our washer on spin cycle.
try "screen protectors" for large format tablets. apply to the inside, and coolants will bead up instead of simply smearing.
I use this spray to protect my car from a group of locals that attack my car with various chemicals like brake-fluid and solvents. It definitely works and provides protection. I would try two areas and attack a material with a acids/solvents then check the differences. I stand by the claims made on the bottle - amazing product.
Nobody ever said this ceramic spray was for glass. Project Farm did a real test on clear coat using the same hood taped off. He compared all the waxes and silicone sprays in the same way, then washed them repeatedly with soap to see how long they lasted. Turtle Wax silicone spray was the longest lasting and clear winner. I have been using this stuff for two years on my pickup and not only does it make a good shine but is far easier to put on than any wax I have ever used. Why don't you try it on your own vehicle and see what you think using eyes to determine if it works?
I believe that the silica is to provide nucleation sites for water to bead up easier. Williams F1 developed a ceramic coat to try and get a few more mph from their cars there is no data as to if it worked.
I'm watching you do science and I love it.
from Montréal 🇨🇦
Would be great if you could test several versions and the ceramic coating too to see if it shows up
Where are very expensive ceramic coating , in very tiny bottles. They do help, but not for long. I use it for motorcycle helmet visor. They make surface very slippery and hard.
Not familiar with this product but others require it to be applied lightly and then allow it to dry to a haze before wiping it off. Maybe doing so would allow more to stick to the glass.
Weird that there doesn't seem to be any footage of how well the coating works when the machine is running.