DAPs: "Which one sounds better?" None, they sound the same
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- Опубликовано: 5 май 2024
- I have heard, tried, owned:
Hiby R6 Pro II, R5 Gen II, R3 Gen II, M300, R6 (£1400)
Sony A55, A306
Other than noise floor (on the Sony devices) and volume/power difference/headroom the difference in sound is pretty much non existent. It is so miniscule and imperceivable that I would not be able to tell the difference between devices consistently in a blind a/b test. I am only applying this to what I have heard and tested, obviously.
Most reviews assert that sound differences/profiles between DAPs are the equivalent of different IEMs. The sound differences between DAPs are nowhere near those of IEMs. 
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You're comparing the sound difference between comparable devices from the same manufacturer of course you're not going to be able to tell the difference. You're also listening to a class of daps in the same price range. Once again not much difference. Listen To your r6 then listen to cayin N30le and then get back to me.
You’ve proved my barrier of entry fallacy point. Thank you. I can use your comment as a reference.
It’s not a fallacy really. You’re listening to devices with similar performance built with similar performing chips. You call it a fallacy when you admit you yourself have not listened to anything in a greater price range. So you can’t make an educated argument unless you’ve actually listened to other players. This whole video and your argument is conjecture and your opinion. You could before making this video go to an audio store and try those other daps or go to camjam but you choose to discount them to make your point that there is no difference.
@@mageborn23
"You call it a fallacy when you admit you yourself have not listened to anything in a greater price range"
That literally never happened.
In the video I stated that I have listened to a modded Hiby R6 (£1400) so your listening ability or comprehension skills aren't there. You've completely made that up, because you didn't listen so just erected a strawman. Piss poor.
@@PerputuallyCensored ok but you said yourself it’s pretty old. I have a lot of respect for hiby myself since I own one but if you’re comparing an old dap with newer daps it’s also not going to blow it out the water especially if it’s the same company. Because they use the tech from previous generations to make new generations.
Well said subscribed 👍
Oh my, you are poking with the hornet's nest with this one
I'm honestly shocked because I can hear a difference in all my daps/dac/amps. Pretty huge differences too (two of them the differences are smaller). But I can tell you're being genuine in this video.
interestingly, there's a channel that does blind tests with guests rather frequently (he also says he volume matched). when andyaudiovault reviews a product, he sometimes brings a guest and blind tests them. His guests (including a woman who is not an audiophile) can hear the differences in daps/dongles/dac/amps. sometimes he even shows them the lineup but secretly swaps something out. although the guests don't know what he's doing, they can still identify the differences between them.
while the methodology is casual, a good thing I like is that sometimes the guests do not know the price. and in the case where he swaps in something he didn't show them, they won't even know the form factor. it basically clears them of the charge of bias for price and/or build. and when he invites non-audiophile guests who don't know anything about gear, they can still use layman terms to clearly state the differences in a blind test.
this reflects my personal experience as well, where some IEMs I just don't pair with certain daps because of sound, regardless of price.
Luke is being genuine but it's apparent that his hearing is not that good.
I honestly think he must have bad hearing I can tell a difference between daps dacs amps etc
@LWLW44 Feel free to demonstrate that you can via a blind a/b. I'll wait.
@howardroark3670 How is it 'apparent"? If you can demonstrate you can hear differences on the specific equipment I named share the evidence. I'd like to see it.
@tor13128 Why are you "shocked"? I bet you haven't tested the exact same equipment that I am talking about have you?
You're talking about completely different gear that I haven't heard nor made a single statement on regarding sound differences or lack thereof.
You are sure you'd pass a blind a/b on whatever equipment it is you're talking about? If so, great because I'd be willing to put some money towards someone providing receipts via properly set up tests. I genuinely mean that. Please list your gear that you're talking about, for reference.
If you digital player sounds different to others, then it's defective. We live in a time when perfectly transparent digital audio is cheap and widely available.
Most of the time, differences are placebo.
Thanks for this, i have a Og fiio m11 550mw and was shocked it almost sounded the same as my full fat fiio ess k9 pro (2.1w at volume 40 with the same headphones 😮.
I'm wondering if differences start disappearing once you get past a specific release date and certain price point. I feel like if you bought anything pre-2015, any headphones under $100 might sound considerably different from $200+ headphones. Even then, I would think the reason for the differences are actual build qualities rather then full on spec differences. Post-2015 I have been able to afford $150+ Hifi related electronics (DAP, DAC, IEM, LG V series, but still under $500) and I started noticing that the sound quality didn't change much from my actual stereo setup. It all sounded great. at that point, I might still be intrigued to find something new but now a days I spend on hifi ONLY when replacing something that has broken or doesn't have a specific feature I'd like. I have access to listening to DSD files and although I don't think it was fully worth the money I spent, It hasn't blown my mind but I do fully enjoy what I hear. Maybe it's true that once you past that $800 point of any electronics that sound changes, at the same time, I have no ear training. I don't live in a country that provides me with healthy foods to improve my hearing (I live in the US). I don't have perfect genes. The only genre of music I listen to where any of this matters is Jazz (I enjoy Soul and traditional Hip-Hop which really doesn't need to be HiFi). I agree that most things under $50 might provide poor quality but with digital, what's more important is software optimization, not sound. When it comes to IEM, it's more about how much pain does your IEM endure before you need to replace it and how well does it fit in your ear without causing pain. With DACs, I think the emphasis should just be on making them inexpensive as there's no barrier for them to surpass anymore with digital. No mainstream, non-classical artists are focusing on any music above 44kHz. They aren't interested in releasing their albums in 32bit. I think more time should be spent, on the side of companies, perfecting correct sound for most room use cases as well as keeping the cost way down. Outside of that, what else do they need to do other then paying scientists to provide us with implant ears so that we can hear 192kHz or higher. Give me a prosthetic ear so that I can hear 512 DSD in it's full glory.
The only differences I hear is when you start going from off the shelf ESS or Cirrus Logic chips to something that has a different design like R2R, FPGA or Sony high end stuff. As the designers are using DSP or parts in the signal path to alter the sound. All the flavour of the month Hiby, Fiio, Shanling all sound the same to me and I find them boring so don't bother with them. But there's a difference in delivery of sound from my Wm1z to my cell phone - but I wouldn't call it massive.
The first time you tried to pull this off, you said explicitly that there are no examples anywhere on YT of people double-blind comparing DAPs and hearing a difference, and I sent you one.
...How's it coming with the viewing of that video -- got around to it yet?
"you said explicitly that there are no examples anywhere on YT of people double-blind comparing DAPs and hearing a difference,"
I said that? Feel free to show me where and when/quote/timestamp. I also received no such comment/link from you either. Link it in your response to this.
And just to correct the strawman that you folks project onto me (DAPs all sound the same, there's no difference), I am talking SPECIFICALLY about DAPs that I have heard. Specific equipment that I have referenced. I'm not talking about anything that I have not heard. I hope the video shows someone telling the difference between a Hiby R5 Gen2 and a Hiby R6 Pro II, etc.
the difference can be only in DAC if its built-in, obv.
I can hear differences between players from different manufactures from different generations. For eg my Cowon X7 which is ancient sounds very different compared to a Sony Wm1a. It might be harder between same generations and manufacturers, but some people may be able to hear them. Could be their frequency limit of hearing What I can't really tell is if something sounds better than the other or I like it more as I enjoy all flavours.
Jordan - I enjoy your reviews and have been subscribed for a while. Would you consider speaking a bit slower please? English is also my second language and it would make it easier to understand everything. Thanks!
Use the speed function to slow me (the video playback) down, that way you'll be able to understand me better. If that function isn't available on my RUclips videos you can use degoogled RUclips forks called NewPipe or SmartTube. Both have speed playback options for videos. I'm not sure if the transcript function is available on my youTube videos or not but if it is that will also help you.
You are speaking facts that lower the ego of many people, be careful 🗿
I would find it interesting if you would attempt a volume matches ABX test. I personally find the differences between source gear also very subtle, doing a ABX test makes it easier to hear potential differences. In case you haven't tried that, it could be a interesting experiment :D
In my experience the direct contrast makes it easier to hear differences. I mean that seems a good position to be in, then you can just pick your source based on features.
Which sources specifically? We aren’t even talking about the same things and you are projecting your experience onto me. I’m only talking about things I have heard. I don’t comment on things I haven’t heard.
@@PerputuallyCensored Yeah sure, I thought about the Hiby R3 Gen 2 and the M300 since they are in a similar price bracket but use a different dac chips dual ES9219C vs Cirrus Logic CS43131 Chips. Although I am of the opinion that the implementation, of the chip meaning the amplifiers as well as the board topology matter more than the dac chip itself (at least thats my opinion after 4 Semesters studying electrical engineering, I am not an expert by any means ._. ). But if I am not mistaking you already sold those. So maybe the Sony NW-WM1AM2 vs NW-A306. In the end it does not really matter which of your DAPs you compare. As a believer in the scientific method I just though it would be interesting trying a ABX test since, it sounded in your video like you never tried it.
I hope I did not sound rude, English is a second language to me so it is sometimes hard the get the intended tone across. I have no experience with DAPs only with desktop units which I ABX with a friend. I am in the market for a DAP, I really enjoy your reviews especially since you focus more on usability and features.
(Great just saw your most recent video about the A306 and NW-WM1AM2)
You didn't sound rude at all. Your english is great.
This is why I skipped over daps and just went for a high quality dongle, cheaper and same if not better performing
This is basically the dirty truth. Yea, you hear differences if you compare a shit DAP with a good one, but after a certain point they all do sound the same.
Also, the dirty secret is there is legitimately no point to DAP’s with IEM’s equipped.
The only reason to buy a dap is to access your own music. I believe if only listening to streaming then a Usb dongle dac will do.
Thank You for sharing!
I buy this one Fiio Q3 THX MQA, and was so confusing, you can use it ONLY on battery, the cable will not power it ON, i was wanted it for my PC daily use, i am so disappointed they didn't mention that, terrible, i did pay 160 Euro!
I am writing now on email with Fiio, look what they ask me:
"What model is your computer?
When connected to a computer, the CHARGE of Q3 MQA is in the OFF state. What color is the indicator light of Q3 MQA at this time? If it is convenient, you can send us the video, thank you!"
BTW i got high end PC, no idea what this has to do with their DAC?
I don't use the Fiio Q3 I'm afraid so I can't comment.
I have the hiby r6,iii and the hiby R8ii and i can clearly hear the differenceand i have done the blind test with 3 different wired headphones and can tell every time what is what
Receipts?
More players today have limited volume. It's not a sound quality issue but if you can't get the volume to the "emotional" level you want then it won't sound as good as one that does.
I agree to an extent when you are comparing budget to mid tier DAP's. However, I used to own a FiiO M15s and then acquired a used iBasso DX300 MAX Ti. The iBasso absolutely hammers the FiiO and it is not even a fair fight. You also have to take into account that some TOTL IEM's scale much more than budget or mid tier offerings and this is where more premium DAP's show their sonic performance advantages much better.
Unless your DAPs have different resolution DACs, there is no difference.
@EhecatlJoelChavezMartinez So are you saying that all amplifiers sound exactly the same then?
I feel bad for this guy not hearing much or any difference
The ess type delivery is popular and everyone tunes in this fashion. They certain don't all sound the same, just the popular cheap stuff all sounds the same, and that's deliberate. It's market research.
If your expensive DAP sounds different, then it's possibly defective.
@@catmeow11111 your ears are defective. Expensive desktop stuff presently all sounds more or less the same, it's tuned that way, except zen dacs of earlier series and hip dac one and two, even more so, you can hear the Burr brown distinctive timbre and tonality.. Try to listen to the dac chips more or less in isolation, on dongle dacs that don't have extensive seperate amp stages etc. Try truthear shio then the same song on some ess dongle, as an example. If you can't tell the difference, get a new hobby. 90% of your expensive desktops all have one of only two chips anyway, and extensive tuning is done to make a 'neutral transparent' sound. This does not happen on its own. Ya those things all sound the same. Almost all are ESS dacs. Irrelevant of the brand of 'dac'. None of those companies make their own dac chips. Where it's a CS, it's tuned to sound like an Ess. It's unlikely to be an AKM. Too much work to make it sound the same as the rest.
Hahahahahaha!