Which B58 HPFP Upgrade is best? - Stock vs TU vs Dorch Stage 1 & 2
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- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2024
- Comparing high pressure fuel pumps and discussing their differences
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This is who people need to see for B58 quality content. Well done sir!
Excellent video. Very informative. Thanks for producing it!
Thank you for the quality content you provide!
Well spoken with great details 🔥🔥🚀🚀🚀
Amazing vid, learnt loads, thank you for these in depth vids man!
Thank you for the making of this video I needed some guidance when it came to this
Thanks again for another in depth, straight to the facts video my good friend ❤️ eagerly waiting for the next one
Thank you so much for this information... I've been searching like crazy for this info about stock Tü and aftermarket hpfp.. thank you again for sharing this video with us.
Awesome vid, thanks!
Running almost a year on dorch stg2
Great products for bigger turbo
Great video
Awesome information.. Very well done. You helped me with my decision for sure.. Thanks a bunch
You just helped me answer my question on buying an HPFP. My B58TU handles more than I thought given I will keep the stock turbo. My stage 2 with a catted downpipe, updated air intake, amd MHD should be ok. Now I have to think about the intercooler...
I really like your videos very informative
Thank you so much for this video. I watched it a while back but am still learning. I came back today and watched it again and know everything you are talking about. I have a 540 and I'll buy the TU pump. I'm not upgrading my turbo and am fine w/ no more than 550hp, but will go w/ a tune, High flow down pipe, high flow intake and this TU pump.... we'll see what that gives me. I'll also buy new Coil packs and new plugs. If anyone here has some recommendations/lessons learned... I'd really - really, appreciate your input.
You should definitely tie it all together with a custome tune
Man you are everywhere… I was in the forums yesterday and you popped up, then less than a day later I’m poking around on RUclips and you’re the first video that pops up… you’re the BMW guru that’s crazy. While I have you here; I want to upgrade a turbo on a m240i, I’m mainly just looking for like stock+, nothing crazy, I’m not trying to wear down my cars components nor am I trying to upgrade every single little part, I feel like you start running into issues doing that. I just want to set it and forget it. Once I’m done I’m done, I don’t want to tinker, I want to have it installed, get it tuned and that be it. I’d like to be around 550hp on 93. I’m okay with adding a fuel pump, a down pipe, and a tune. What is the best option for me? Which is the least fuss and most reliable/OEM feeling of the bunch? Pure 800/850? I would go top mount if that was the best route, money isn’t really the limiting factor, it’s more so I want to remain more stock than not stock. If you say top mount with DP and fuel pump best suits my needs, that’s okay. If you could recommend the FP and DP and tune to go along with it that would be great as well. Thanks Guru!
Dunno if it's worth mentioning, but these are just off the shelf GM LT1 (stage1) and LT4 (stage2) pumps. Lingenfelter makes a big bore (+~10% flow over the LT4) version of this pump that should be straight drop-in for either of these kits once you move the lash cap over and rotate the connector. Basically any upgrade made for the GM LTx motors should be direct fit here with Dorch's adapter plate, lash cap, and plumbing, which is pretty cool.
I believe Kevin mentioned this in a previous video explaining why there will probably not be any upgrades for the B58 TU HPFP, as there are no other cars on the market that support >5000 psi currently.
One of these companies could probably talk to Stanadyne (the company that designs/makes these pumps) and see if there are any options for higher pressure relief valves. They primarily do diesel pumps, so they're definitely familiar with higher pressure applications, and they state that their pumps are configurable, though there are probably some MOQ hurdles for aftermarket communities there...
The new Z06 runs at 5000psi....but the hpfp design is very different. We'll see.
Just a heads up. I emailed Dorch about just swapping the HPFP alone and keeping the stage 1 lines and rail (when changing to a stage 2 HPFP) they said I should change all the lines and rails.
you think stage 1 dorch will be fine with a hybrid turbo like Pure Stage 2 and some E30? Goal is to just be 500-550Whp!
Thanks and we’ll done on great content.
Any word at all on a hpfp for the TU engines? I saw your video explains why it’s unlikely but asking anyway.
Not yet but I'm keeping my eye out for any updates
what problems did you run into to decide a fuel pump?
All I have to do is get the tu to run e30 or is there other upgrades needed
@kern417 Out of curiosity since i dont really know how to flows work i know you put it in the video but to dumb it down for me lol, what mix is achievable with the TU? surely it isnt full e right or is it?
Yes
Hey man what turbo and hpfp you recommend for a 2018 x3 m40i. I have bootmod3, downpipe and chargepipe. Got crappy gas out here. 91oct pretty much all there is
Tu pump is enough
Hey Kern, I'm sorry if this is a dumb question. If we were to run a TU pump on our cars would we need a custom tune to run 91 octane, or could we simply use the Stage 2 91 OTS bm3 tune? There isn't a selection for the TU pump in the tune config, only Dorch and Spool. I'm asking because where I'm at ethanol is hard to come by, but I'm moving somewhere where it is more common. I figure I'd install it and run it on 91 and then switch to an E30 tune, but there is no OTS Stage 2+ 91 octane tune. Thanks!!!
TU pump works just like the stock pump so no custom settings are needed.
@@kern417 thanks kern!!
@kern417 if running stock turbo b58 with stg2+ tune from MG flasher E40 map is there any power benefit from running dorch2 instead of TU pump? Dorch2 makes more flow so power will be bigger with dorch2 or will be the same as with tu pump on E40 stg2+ map ?
No difference
One question, Can I go full e85 or e85 mix with premium and upgrade my hpfp to Dorch stg 1? I have stock turbo and cts intake with mhd tune on my b58.
Yes
Thanks for another informative video, I had a question that maybe you'll have some insight on. I only have 92Oct local to me so I run MHD STG2 on the 91 tune but was curious to run the 93 tune, is it close enough to run no problem? would throwing octane booster in every tank make it safe? Or is the tune so potentially similar it doesn't matter? Thanks ahead if you have any insight!
I wouldn't run the 93 tune with 92 or octane booster. If you want more power then i recommend a bigger turbo and the TU pump.
@@kern417 Okay noted, Thank you for the reply!
Do not ever run a tune that is designed for a higher octane that is in the fuel tank. That risks catastrophic damage to your expensive engine.
Plus there is no upside to doing so. There is very little gain to be had from going from a 91 tune to a 93 tune. Whatever small gain to be had depends on the 93 fuel in the tank to be high quality.
A 91 tune with high quality 91 or 92 octane in the tank with run smoother and feel more powerful than a 93 tune with weak/poor 93 octane that is forced to do excessive timing adjustments to protect the engine from poor quality fuel.
Hope this helps!
@@johnungvarsky8875 It does thank you!
It’s better to have more than less in a scenario like that.
Hi @kern417 massive fan here from the UK. I need to ask. I'm currently running BM3 stage 2+ on my gen 1 b58 M240i with the TU HPFP and loving it. However I would like to flash back to stock for the winter months my question is can I keep the TU HPFP on the car and just select OEM in the map configuration settings so the car thinks the standard pumps on, or would I need to install the stock pump? Cheers, appreciate your continued help. J
Yes you can
@@kern417 thankyou bro 🍻
Hey kern, this video is old but just want to know I have the dorch stage 1 hpfp and want to go flowmax tubo 2.5v+ . Would the dorch stage 1 support a e50 blend or do I need to upgrade? Or which blend would be best with the upgraded turbo
sure. usually e30-e50.
If you’ve installed your DE stg2 already, did you get your nut that couples the rail and pump together to thread all the way on? Other two go all the way down by hand when I installed how the manual says but the one that goes to the pump won’t go all the way down. Is that normal or should I keep messing with the alignment?
I posted a DIY last week. Check it out. It's normal. As long as it threads on smoothly (no cross threading) it's good.
@@kern417 I’ll check it out. I followed along with kies and noclutch and couldn’t really make that out
@@kaboom1717 I think even if you just look at the thumbnail I used for my video, you can see it's only threaded about halfway on.
Stage 2.5 now.
would I benefit at all from running a TU pump if I am only intake+jb4 (map3)? I get the occasional lean fuel code
You can add more boost/ethanol with a TU pump but i believe you need a backend flash to take advantage of it
@kern417 so I installed the TU pump, and ran into the issue of the fuel lines not lining up seamlessly with the rail and pump etc. I too had to man handle the rails into place. I’m kind of concerned about leakage though, the flared ends are off to the side, and I tightened tf out of them. Was leaking a concern for you? I drove it, got on it a little and brought it back to the garage. I don’t see any leaking. But I’m curious as to how it’s going to handle on an e40 map with higher pressure. Thoughts?
Maps don't run higher pressure. To make it easier you can loosen the pump, line up the hardlines, then tighten it down again.
@@kern417 good to know, I’ll do that.
@@kern417 will there be any way to tell if there’s an issue with the alignments through data logging? Mine were pretty off, even backing out the pump and redoing it. It’s got me a little worried ngl.
If you tightened it then it's fine.
@@kern417 I appreciate the response, and I apologize for the million questions. Learning as I go, and you’ve been extremely helpful. I got your shirt on today for the test runs, it’s going to bring me luck.😂
Can you use the TU pump without ethanol ? Just on stock turbo stage 2 93 octane?
Yes
Besides price, is there any reason to go with dorch stage 1 vs stage 2? Like fuel economy? I plan on eventually going bigger turbo but not for a while, would I benefit from sticking with stage 1 for now until going bigger turbo and then go with stage 2?
Nope just price. If you don't need the extra flow then there's no reason to go stage 2.
@@kern417 thanks for the info. One last question: if I'm using MHD and I install a dorch HPFP will I be required to stick to 93 octane maps or higher? Having the ability to use 91 octane maps is very helpful for long road trips where high quality gas is hard to find
You should be able to check the dorch option in any map. Double check the settings
Do you plan on keeping your old pumps, or are they already gone?
The TU pump is sold. I may go back to stock pump in the future if I add port injection
Looking to do a TU pump with PI meth on a pure 800. How much do you think ill make? I think ill go with a E30 blend
You can make 600-700 depending on how hard you push it
Can I us e a b58 first gen hpfp on a 2013 bmw 135i n55 engine?
Has anyone had a rattle from the b58 tu fuel pump, mine is very noisy ticking
I just had dorch 2 installed with the base map from mhd to run while I wait for my custom tune. That should be okay with no issues right ?
Yes, it’s fine. A lot of people run a upgraded HPFP with a MHD OTS / Base map
Yes
Have u upgraded Tu pump ? Did u get any codes or check engine light ?
Is it risky for the cam to run aftermarket pumps on a gen 1 b58? I have a downpipe and tune and i just want to prevent any catastrophic failures. I also like to run a bm3 standard 91 octane tune to make about 400 whp
No it is not
I’d say if you were worried about it to just replace the cam follower when you upgrade the fuel pump. I replaced my follower and gasket when I installed mine just for a piece of mind. The old follower had almost 50k miles on it and still looked pretty good.
Good video brother!! I have a cold air intake and high flow catted downpipe on the way for my gen 1 b58 (18’ 540i). Once I install the CAI and DP I want to go stage 1. Do you think I’ll be good w the TU/Supra hpfp?? Thank man!!
You don't need a downpipe or hpfp for stage 1
@@kern417 should I go straight to stage 2 since I already bought the DP? If so am I ok w the TU hpfp?
@@alroza1 pick the tune that you want to run then build your car around that. All of the tunes specify what parts are necessary.
I have a 2019 540xi which pump does my car come with does the b58 tu come with the TU pump or no?
you have a gen 1
Do you think I could run full e85 with the tu pump on Mhd stage 2 hpfp ?
Also wondering this. I'm not going higher than MHD Stage2 but do want to run full E85
Can I use the stock fuel pump with my BM3 stage 2 tune? Everything is stock on my G30 except the downpipe.
yes
if you are on stock turbo, could you skip hpfp upgrade and get port injection? just a random idea i had. not sure if it would work. any thoughts or feedback? Thank you!
you could but it over-complicates things for most setups. i have port on my stock turbo car because i wanted to try it.
So i have gen 1 its a 2019 540xi but its gen 1 pump so if i upgrade to dorch stage 2 do i need to upgrade anything else like injectors? Amd what turbo should i upgrade to? Im stage 2 MHD ots and catless plus intake and charge pipe
You don't need to upgrade anything other than the fuel pump itself. There are a lot of good turbo options so it more depends on your budget and goals.
Ever since I changed out to the TU fuel pump, I can not get my tune to give me the extreme burbles. I even flashed it and set the aggression to 12 at 1.5, 1.7, 2.0, and 2.5.... I can't get the cracking and pops like I used to ( Stage 2 - 93 Oc.)
Bootmos3..... HELP Please
Why would you have the burbless anyway? Sounds childisch and its annoying.
And its not great for the car either.
Hi,
I want to get hybrid turbo and get 600crank on 99 ron fuel. I have supra, so allready tu pump but is it enough for this power? What about single turbo and power like 700 crank on pump fuel 99 ron? I don’t want to run E blend as I don’t have where to store it in Europe and we don’t have ethanol at the peteol station.
Thanks a lot
What’s the max E blend I can run with the flex fuel kit from BM3 on the stock Gen 1 pump?
thoughts on going with a dorche stage 2 on a stock gen1 b58 engine/turbo?
works great
Yo boss , I got a tu pump . I’m planning to make atleast high 500s / 600 whp . Would I be able to achieve that ?
Yes. Watch the video
Wait dorch doesn’t work on the TU engines? Just stuck with the TU pump?
Correct
Hallou, is TU Fuel pump sufficient for Stage 2+ MHD?
Yes
Can i run TU pump on Stage 2 91(ACN) ? Or would i need to go to Stage 2+ ?
Yes
I do not plan on going big turbo I’m just wanna run the stage 2+ tune from bootmod3 should I by the tu bump or the dorch stage 1 I have Hurd story’s in forums of the tu pump eating the cam or blowing a injector have you hurd if any of theses issues and what would you recommend
TU is fine
@@kern417 thanks I appreciate it
Have people had any problems with TU pump on the gen 1 b58
No
How much power will the stage 1 support? Do you think it can support 675whp or even closer to 700whp on a e40-5-0 mix?
No. It will support around 600-620 on E30. Higher ethanol content will limit how much power it can support.
@@kern417 is that the most I can get out the pump period? Or you think I can make more power on race gas?
Yes race gas will make more power. Sorry I'm so used to people jumping straight to ethanol I didn't think to mention that
@B58 it's the absolute limit. 550 is safer. And well within it's capabilities
@@kern417 so if I want 650 wheel horsepower with upgraded turbos and full e85 I need dorshe stage 2 right ?? Will it be able to support full e85 ?
Hey Kern ik this videos old but I was looking into getting the mhd flex fuel kit but since I live in cali we’re limited to 91, would I see any gains by getting the tu pump over stock if i’m only gonna be running 91 most of the time with e30 used on weekends?
I’m assuming that while on 91 there would be no difference but when i’m running e30 there would be, just want to make sure it’s not a waste of money to buy a tu pump
yes that's right. not much gains on 91 but noticeable gains on e30. however mhd doesn't have a 91 stage 2 hpfp tune.
@@kern417 Sounds good thank you for your help, ill likely stick with the stock fuel pump since there isn’t a stage 2+ 91 tune. Is there any risks involved or maintenance I should do before running an e30 tune on stock hpfp if i got a flex fuel kit, i’m at 63k miles and don’t wanna mess anything up.
nothing special just keep up with regular maintenance and run logs every once in a while
Just to clarify, u couldn’t use the dorch ones on a stock tune??
Correct. You need an aftermarket tune with the correct hpfp settings
My tu pump works well in my n55
how do you get the tu pump on n55
Will Dorch Stg1 be enough for Hybrid Turbo with e30/meth?
Yes
How about e50 instead ? Or do I need stage 2
? I have a 1st gen and I have a jb4, I’m adding a high flow down pipe… therefore I should be good with e30 without upgrading to a tu fuel pump; correct?
The whp shouldn’t go above 450ish I’m guessing
Thx sir
i'm not too familiar with jb4 and ethanol, but there are tunes out there to support running e30.
@@kern417 thx 4 the reply
What’s the max WHP you figure someone can get on an m340i
B58tu
Catless downpipe
JB4 Tune with EWG connecter
Pump gas **
450ish
Based on your b58 tuning guide video, ive decided to go stick with a stage 2+\2.5 on my 2018 440i. If im looking to tune with MHD and run a VRSF catless downpipe, would i even need the dorch stage 1? Or could i get away with the TU?
Tu is the minimum requirement
Later we can expect Dorch Stage 2 fuel pump for B58 second generation (Supra)? thanks!
probably not any time soon
@@kern417 thanks!
You can turn the connector of the TU pump into the right way..
Tu pump is roughly $400 and dorch stage 1 is $1200. Is the extra money worth the lower bar pressure?
Nah
I want the dorch stage 2 hpfp but cant afford it for 2 grand because UK salaries are shite 😢
Hi guys can I use the HPFP TU for my first gen b58 m140i? I'm running only MHD / XHP stage 1 and was looking for a cheap upgrade.
Yes.
@@kern417 thank you so much for your answer. Do You know by any chance if I have to set up something in MHD for the TU ?
@@tobias67 no
ruclips.net/video/It8MrjLVtu0/видео.html
@@kern417 so the upgrade is useless and doesn't increase a damn thing haha thanks man I did not waste my money
Do you know much about jb4? I got a 18 340i running map 4 on 93oct. Gonna switch to mhd flasher soon
I haven't used it personally but I know a little bit from other people
@@kern417 what tuner do u use?
OdinTuned
@@kern417 thank you
hi kern quick question i have 2017 540i planning to run bootmod3 stage 2 93oct do you think it would make sense to invest in the tu pump ?
Stage 2 requires a downpipe. Stage 2+ requires a hpfp. So it's up to you.
@@kern417 yeah i just plan to run stage 2 not stage 2+ i was debating if i should do a tu or stage 1 dorch or if it even makes sense to get one at all since i’m just staying at stage 2
I went for an mhd 93 stage 2 tune and my stock pump couldn’t handle the power so I upgraded the pump for tu pump and much better 440i owner
Try to go for stage 2 then do the logs if all goods then no need for an upgraded pump
@@hasan_440i appreciate you i have a 540i so let’s see how it goes just received most of my parts recently
Does the hpfp affect gas mileage?
No
What is the highest ethanol rating the Supra tu pump can run in only looking to run e50 on my “fastest map” will it hold and do okay ?
Yes
@kern417 if i went back stock without tune, will the TU pump make any issue running the car or throwing any codes?
@@kern417 .
No
@@kern417 can I run e50 with upgraded turbos and stage 1 dorshe and will it have as much power as dorshe stage 2 full e85 ??
Does your car have upgraded suspension? My car has been feeling weird lately but i have no idea what it is its riding rough even in comfort mode and i can hear every little bump in the road.. kinda annoying
Yes
@@kern417 was it rough when you were on stock suspension?
Nope
How many miles on your car? Might be time for new bushings. You may have a broken one as your symptom experienced is typically old or broken bushings in your suspension.
Add: Take your car in for an alignment and have them inspect.
According to several websites, the TU pump should support up to 575 - 600 HP on the crank. I'm currently running stage 2+ with the TU pump, and planning to go for a hybrid turbo at around 550 hp crank (RON 98 fuel only). The TU pump should be sufficient for this power goal? The given max power numbers for TU seem a bit optimistic.
They do between 530-550 and some dyno’s just giving higher numbers
Im same like u.Stage 2 +.Did u upgrade to pure 800 turbo and how many hp u got?
I had to postpone the turbo upgrade due to a leaking rear differential (too many launches wasted the seal). Going to replace the rear diff by a OS Giken LSD first. But I got X-Drive, getting the RWD diff installed but need some modifications in order to get it fitted properly. Hoping to get the turbo upgrade done mid 2024.
@@markvanderwardt3345 wish u best of luck.I will try mine soon.
is it safe to run pure850 with dorch stage 2 on stage 2+e30?
Yes. Run logs to confirm.
@@kern417 thanks, im excited to see how the gen 1 b58 does with the pure850 and custom tune
@@kern417 update: im leaking fuel lmao atleast i was able to smoke a q60 and fbo e85 stinger gt while it lasted
@@kern417 im hoping its a singular injector and not my fuel pump
@@yoiinkHD let us know when it is fixed
If staying stock turbo, would you go TU pump or Stage 1? Planning on stage 2 tune and maybe e-30 mix once a Gas ⛽️ station comes near by.
Like the video said, TU and stage one both are limited around the same.
@@kern417 thanks Kern. I’m about to order MHD software and swap out my JB4.
@@kern417 is installing the Tu pimp risky ? I don’t want to have any malfunctions, codes, or check engine light after I install it
Why doesnt the dorsche stage 2 make more whp compared to tu pump?
nobody said dorch stage 2 makes less than tu pump
@@kern417 i have a tu pump rn if i upgrade to the dorsche stage 2 and put that option on the drop down menu and flash the car again imma make more whp ??? And how much more whp?
@@kern417 ???
How you feel about Fuel It HPFP??
seems fine but requires bending the fuel lines
@@kern417 yea I seen that. Not really a fan of that
I'm running mhd stage 2 e30 map and the car is happy. Logs show rail pressure sitting at or below 3k psi and I'm running about 18psi boost under load. Should I upgrade the fuel pump or is this happy?
Do you have tu pump or gen 1?
@@AnthonyFaizov I have the oem gen 1 pump still
Could I run a dorsch hpfp on a 2021 supra? On the dorsch website it says that their pumps are not compatible with 2020+ supras b58. Why is that so?
No, because of the reasons i explained in the video.
6:01
anybody has information about the Dorch or Fuel IT stage 2 pump, what brand or source these are? Because I do not believe, these are made by the tuners it self... I am sure only the install hardware is custom. I would be very thankful for this information..🤗 Thanks in advance!
ruclips.net/video/5ljj5J5JqV4/видео.html
Beyond sound and stage 2 upgrades.. the rest for the price just buy a car with more power lmao.
Truly the best B58 content in the world. Thank you so much brother 🫶🏾 Excited to take the next step from my is350 to a 340i
if i have mhd stage 2, catless b58, 93 pump gas, should i get a tu? i might get an upgraded turbo in the future. what kind of difference would it make with/without an upgraded turbo?
stage 2 does not require a hpfp upgrade. only stage 2+ (or mhd calls it stage 2 hpfp)
yeah i'll for sure buy the stage 2+ tune for mhd, but do you think its worth it to go TU? maybe if i eventually buy a turbo upgrade i'll go dorch, but for now is TU a worthwhile upgrade?@@kern417
ruclips.net/video/ri4tV-0djGE/видео.html
On stock turbo, what’s the max I would need for stage 2+ tune on 91 octane? Catless+intake. I’m thinking TU would be plenty to max out the stock turbo?
TU is all you need for Stage 2+.
@@kern417 damn look at you with the response times!! Thanks brother can’t wait to see your OTS tune comparison video so I can make my choice. 👌👌🤟 thanks for the vids.
I was thinking the same. I have catless and intake with BMS stage 2 on 91 pump. Should I stick to stock or upgrade to TU pump?
@@D1Calderon Did you ever find out?
@@D1Calderon I was running the same setup on my 540i with the OEM pump. No issues at all.
a question, can i run a bm3 stage 2+ E50 with a dorch stage 1? I have original turbo
Stock turbo Bmw 240 b58
Yes
@@kern417 I’m also going bm3 stage 2+ e50 can I just go with the tu pump?
@@artushshakhbandaryan6207 I do not recommend how you make the TU PUMP HAS NO STRENGTH to E50 blend
@@kern417 Yes, but I have realized that the TU MUMP gives me the same miles WHEN I SET THE MAP E30 AND WHEN I SET THE E50. It seems to me that the TU PUMP does not have power at E50