I’m just grateful that you are doing this series. These little boxes have been overlooked and they’re some great deals out there for very basic office machines!
During the entire video the only thing I could think was: I hope he attaches the 3090 to the Lenovo unit. (Would require a separate power supply ofc, but man it would be a sight to behold.)
For anyone in Australia interested, the Lenovo ThinkCentre M920x Tiny averages around $1500 in the USED market. It can sometimes be found for as little as $950 and sometimes as expensive as $2700. They can be purchased new from Lenovo for $1800 with a 9th gen chip instead of the 8th gen you get for $1500 in the used market.
I know this vid is a year old, but my M920 is still running like a champ 18 months in hosting 12 containers, email server, nginx web server, shinobi/NVR, pihole, a Plex server, radarr/sonarr/lidarr, grafana, a Jitsi meet server, and runs as the NAS hosting 8TB of storage. All under 50watts with the POE switch, router. and UPS. Great little machines. for small scale home automation and self hosting domains in the cloud 24/7.
Ha! Actually, William finished his non-gaming RTX 3090 review draft so I am snapping a few photos for his review. I was planning to use a spare Turing card but this was physically closer in a box in the studio.
They should've changed the case on the new M1 and made it smaller as they're not using the extra space for any expendability. Would've made is way more impressive in terms of power density.
Wouldn't say so. Performance absolutely destroys this lenovo PC. Build quality goes to Mac mini hands down. Connectivity goes to Mac as you can convert thunderbolt to anything you want, since those are just PCI-E over USB-C with 40GBps of throughput per port. This is future proofing you won't get with lenovo and you'll be limited. Graphics performance goes to Mac. All this thing has going for it is expandability. Everything started going into direction of ARM it seems, so in the future this might be much better choice. Linux runs well on it. Windows - to be discovered, but I doubt that Microsoft won't go this way. Things like mentioned docker not working are only temporary.
If you wanted to virtualize macOS legally, some intel minis (like my 2012 i7) ran ESXi or KVM *really* well with dual supported Gb NICs, PCIe passthrough of some components, and even booting from the SD card slot. Apple didn't design the mini to do this; it just happened to work because it was on Intel. Those off-piste uses that many bought the mini for in the past aren't going to work for quite some time on Apple silicon, if ever.
I love how Patrick just unapologetically names all the games that he might or might now play. This expansion in a 1L package is really, really cool. On question on the mini DP ports, do they theoretically support mini DP - DP to get 4K 144hz display support?
I saw the 3090 and was expecting a Linus-esque frankensteining using a PCIe extension to get it working with the Tiny. On a more productive note, homelabbers want to get their hands on these because you can have a tiny with 5 NICs using that expansion. Lenovo doesn't make them cheap though
Just picked one up 2nd hand with a 4 port Intel NIC! I can't wait to set it up for my home firewall/Unifi controller. This will be a perfect box for a container sandboxing and just learning smaller systems. It'll give me the ability to branch out to maybe purchase a NUC style Ryzen for more in-depth VM homelabbing. I'm sure my power bill with be far smaller than the R630 Poweredge I had previously lol
the lenovo units are POS (point of sale) units with the max of 2TB in 1 TB form factor ssd you are limited to 2TB max otherwise you will be running stuff on external nas
This system would be great for a hackintosh build since it uses AMD graphics. I have a Dell Optiplex mini that runs MacOS great. It would be good for the M1 review as a comparison as they both have a similar price point.
To be fair, that M920x came out 2 years ago which was before Wifi 6 became mainstream. Also, we don't know what Ethernet chip is on the M1 Mac Mini (maybe Broadcom). There is also rumoured to be an M1 Mac Mini with 10Gbe (probably Aquantia chip).
Apple has released a service parts list with Mac Mini M1 motherboards with 10gbe. Expect they're just waiting till after the holidays to make it orderable.
The 920x can also run 65w CPU's, so an i9-9900 is possible, but would cost multiple times the value of the original unit, and probably why there's a 135w power brick
the main difference between that lenovo thing, and the mac mini, is that the mac mini is able to pack the power supply in the same case, while the lenovo needs an external power brick
Generic risers do not work, and the m910 'tiny 4' riser (I believe this is a Tiny5) didnt work for my p600/p620 with fan (as in not a heatpipe from GPU). Encompass parts will sell you the riser. Lenovo 01aj940, but don't quote me on that, its from memory. All 720/920/p330 tiny boards I have seen have a pcie slot.
I look forward to when you can get a Ryzen 7 5800U in one of these boxes, with three DisplayPorts, 10 gbe, wifi, and support for two or three 2280 NVMe. But I'm still waiting for an embedded Epyc board with 16 SATA ports and several of the gbe ports populated. I wonder how much it would take to get into the business of building boards?
>8 amd compute units in a tinyminimicro form factor? Yes please! I've been scouring the lenovo website for something like this for a while, i wonder if they just aren't available in my region.
@@MarkRose1337 Oh I meant more as an overall, not just Apple products. The power consumption combined with performance seems like something that will be pretty hard to beat with what we have right now.
Well, you “could” do an apples-versus-oranges comparison between the 2018/2019 Intel MacMini and the rest of the TinyMiniMicros. At least you can still upgrade the RAM in those, and Apple will likely clean house on them soon. It’s hard to take the M1 MacMini seriously as a server. 16GB of RAM max?!
It is part the 16GB but it is also going to take 2+ weeks for the 16GB Mac Mini M1 to arrive. I agree though, 16GB in a $900 server (or more) seems low.
Heh. I had a pretty good laugh tossing 64GB of RAM and a ConnectX3 VPI into my HP t740 and getting results between a 2018 MacMini i3 and i5 - that’s roughly 650 to 700 in total outlay. The Apple tax is definitely alive and kicking.
Trying to understand what the 3090 had to do with this review and in general. 10 series 20 series gpu's are still able to play AAA games that was just a 30 series promo
Whats this fascination with wanting to game on everyting? You want to game on a potato too?? This device should be reviewed as a home server/nas replacement.
What are you talking about. RX560 2GB can still play CSGO competative even in 2023. I dont understand where you got theat it cant. 1080p high all day long
In CSGO competitive there is a difference between being able to play and having a system that is competitive. (Saying this as someone who had 3x GE accts during the pandemic lockdowns)
Hey! Is it good for rendering softwares ? Or specifically for architects who need to use autocad, photoshop and some light rendering tools like vray or lumion with sketchup ? Thanks 😁
If you can find the M920x used (at a good price) with the Intel i350-t4 that would.be about ideal. These are not officially supported for ESXi but people do use them for labs. The big compatibility item is usually the NICs. We have been putting the NIC in each model's main site review page 2's to help with that. On a macro level, I get your feedback. We are getting to the point a summary is needed.
Does the m920x have the 65w processor option with copper heatsink like the p330 tiny does? What is max continuous draw with a decent 6 or 8 core? I put the 9500t in my P330 and I like it.
Looking into buying one of these small PC’s for myself! Are there any Tiny’s, Mini’s, or Micro’s that have power supplies within the chassis like the Mac mini does?
Does anybody know if these tiny and nano Lenovo ThinkCentre/IdeaCentre are planned with 12th gen Intel CPU and windows 11 pre installed and if there is a release date set?
They should be coming out with 12th Gen. HP said its Minis are March so I would Imagine Lenovo would be around the same time. www.servethehome.com/hp-elite-mini-800-g9-with-intel-alder-lake-launched/
@@ServeTheHomeVideo I had a feeling it would be around the corner, so might as well wait a couple of months and get the latest. Really appreciate your reply. Just recently started watching your channel and I’m really enjoying your reviews on the mini pc´s :)
I’m just grateful that you are doing this series. These little boxes have been overlooked and they’re some great deals out there for very basic office machines!
And not only ....
Since games are all stupid today, people now just play Chess online :P
So its good for games too :) hahahha
During the entire video the only thing I could think was: I hope he attaches the 3090 to the Lenovo unit. (Would require a separate power supply ofc, but man it would be a sight to behold.)
Just the size and weight of the two is a staggering difference.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo So you say there's a possibility of you doing it?
That wasn't a Apple to Apple comparison
I'll see myself out : )
For anyone in Australia interested, the Lenovo ThinkCentre M920x Tiny averages around $1500 in the USED market. It can sometimes be found for as little as $950 and sometimes as expensive as $2700.
They can be purchased new from Lenovo for $1800 with a 9th gen chip instead of the 8th gen you get for $1500 in the used market.
Man what happened to your dollars!...
I know this vid is a year old, but my M920 is still running like a champ 18 months in hosting 12 containers, email server, nginx web server, shinobi/NVR, pihole, a Plex server, radarr/sonarr/lidarr, grafana, a Jitsi meet server, and runs as the NAS hosting 8TB of storage. All under 50watts with the POE switch, router. and UPS. Great little machines. for small scale home automation and self hosting domains in the cloud 24/7.
Sounds like you are happy with yours! I have to say I like these machines a lot.
This was just a flex that you have a 3090 change my mind
Ha! Actually, William finished his non-gaming RTX 3090 review draft so I am snapping a few photos for his review. I was planning to use a spare Turing card but this was physically closer in a box in the studio.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo so you guys Put up a 1500$ GPU, because you were lazy? ;)
@@p3chv0gel22 We just needed a decently large GPU and it was there ready to take photographs!
Gotta say, that lenovo unit is incredibly impressive, almost more impressive to me than the M1.
They should've changed the case on the new M1 and made it smaller as they're not using the extra space for any expendability. Would've made is way more impressive in terms of power density.
@Ornithorhynchus Extraordinaire maybe not that small, still needs a cooler. But 2/3 or even 1/2 of the old chassis should be possible.
@Ornithorhynchus Extraordinaire yea I know, you could say it's a phone processor on steroids :)
Wouldn't say so.
Performance absolutely destroys this lenovo PC.
Build quality goes to Mac mini hands down.
Connectivity goes to Mac as you can convert thunderbolt to anything you want, since those are just PCI-E over USB-C with 40GBps of throughput per port. This is future proofing you won't get with lenovo and you'll be limited.
Graphics performance goes to Mac.
All this thing has going for it is expandability.
Everything started going into direction of ARM it seems, so in the future this might be much better choice. Linux runs well on it. Windows - to be discovered, but I doubt that Microsoft won't go this way. Things like mentioned docker not working are only temporary.
If you wanted to virtualize macOS legally, some intel minis (like my 2012 i7) ran ESXi or KVM *really* well with dual supported Gb NICs, PCIe passthrough of some components, and even booting from the SD card slot. Apple didn't design the mini to do this; it just happened to work because it was on Intel. Those off-piste uses that many bought the mini for in the past aren't going to work for quite some time on Apple silicon, if ever.
I love how Patrick just unapologetically names all the games that he might or might now play. This expansion in a 1L package is really, really cool.
On question on the mini DP ports, do they theoretically support mini DP - DP to get 4K 144hz display support?
I saw the 3090 and was expecting a Linus-esque frankensteining using a PCIe extension to get it working with the Tiny.
On a more productive note, homelabbers want to get their hands on these because you can have a tiny with 5 NICs using that expansion. Lenovo doesn't make them cheap though
Totally. That is the Intel i350-T4 option mentioned adding four extra NICs.
Would be kinda fun to try put a 3090 in it, or I guess put it onto a 3090.
Just picked one up 2nd hand with a 4 port Intel NIC! I can't wait to set it up for my home firewall/Unifi controller. This will be a perfect box for a container sandboxing and just learning smaller systems. It'll give me the ability to branch out to maybe purchase a NUC style Ryzen for more in-depth VM homelabbing.
I'm sure my power bill with be far smaller than the R630 Poweredge I had previously lol
Ha and quite a bit quieter than a R630 as well! I am jealous you found one with the NIC!
@@ServeTheHomeVideo no doubt! My son used to think commercial airliners were landing in the front yard!
the lenovo units are POS (point of sale) units with the max of 2TB in 1 TB form factor ssd you are limited to 2TB max otherwise you will be running stuff on external nas
Nice serie of vids man. As always you did a great job. Support. Ciao
LOVE THE TECH FLEX!
Lenovo makes the best Mac Minis. :-)
my friend got one of these lenovo machine swap the graphic card into ASL 1650 4GB. It was such a beast
This system would be great for a hackintosh build since it uses AMD graphics. I have a Dell Optiplex mini that runs MacOS great. It would be good for the M1 review as a comparison as they both have a similar price point.
Those were good prices back than. The new m80q with the 12500 with no graphics card starts around 850 Euro/dollars in germany. :D
Just brought three of these with X540-T2 configured as PCI-E expansion, it's awesome
To be fair, that M920x came out 2 years ago which was before Wifi 6 became mainstream. Also, we don't know what Ethernet chip is on the M1 Mac Mini (maybe Broadcom). There is also rumoured to be an M1 Mac Mini with 10Gbe (probably Aquantia chip).
Totally true. I am excited about the prospects of a M1 Mac Mini with 10GbE. Working with USB 2.5GbE/ 5GbE adapters at the moment.
Apple has released a service parts list with Mac Mini M1 motherboards with 10gbe. Expect they're just waiting till after the holidays to make it orderable.
Thx for showing these lovely products
The 920x can also run 65w CPU's, so an i9-9900 is possible, but would cost multiple times the value of the original unit, and probably why there's a 135w power brick
how about the pcie port what the max wattage?
the main difference between that lenovo thing, and the mac mini, is that the mac mini is able to pack the power supply in the same case, while the lenovo needs an external power brick
That is mentioned here. The Mac Mini is larger but has the internal PSU
That upside down 3090 really bothers me
100% me too. That is how the card came and it is the first thing I notice.
Please can you peel the plastic before you shoot b-roll?
Nice! PCIe x8 is a great feature! I wonder if the barebones comes with the PCIe and the riser
My guess is it comes with the motherboard slot but not the riser. However, generic risers will probably work fine.
Generic risers do not work, and the m910 'tiny 4' riser (I believe this is a Tiny5) didnt work for my p600/p620 with fan (as in not a heatpipe from GPU). Encompass parts will sell you the riser. Lenovo 01aj940, but don't quote me on that, its from memory. All 720/920/p330 tiny boards I have seen have a pcie slot.
I look forward to when you can get a Ryzen 7 5800U in one of these boxes, with three DisplayPorts, 10 gbe, wifi, and support for two or three 2280 NVMe.
But I'm still waiting for an embedded Epyc board with 16 SATA ports and several of the gbe ports populated. I wonder how much it would take to get into the business of building boards?
~250 board orders you can get smaller companies to make custom boards for you.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Interesting. I don't have much hardware background, but that makes the cost of entry at least feasible.
I think there are boards that have that much SATA available via the slimline connectors?
Thank you for my next pfSense on steroids build :) much appreciated. Regards Shane from Trinidad 🇹🇹
>8 amd compute units in a tinyminimicro form factor? Yes please! I've been scouring the lenovo website for something like this for a while, i wonder if they just aren't available in my region.
The M1 Macs are revolutionary.
Totally agree.
I reckon so too. I wonder if there will be a transition to that architecture in desktop CPU's. Personally I'd be surprised if not.
@@Interknetz There definitely will be. The past two times apple changed CPU families in their laptops and desktops, they changed everything over.
@@MarkRose1337 Oh I meant more as an overall, not just Apple products. The power consumption combined with performance seems like something that will be pretty hard to beat with what we have right now.
Well, you “could” do an apples-versus-oranges comparison between the 2018/2019 Intel MacMini and the rest of the TinyMiniMicros. At least you can still upgrade the RAM in those, and Apple will likely clean house on them soon.
It’s hard to take the M1 MacMini seriously as a server. 16GB of RAM max?!
It is part the 16GB but it is also going to take 2+ weeks for the 16GB Mac Mini M1 to arrive. I agree though, 16GB in a $900 server (or more) seems low.
Heh. I had a pretty good laugh tossing 64GB of RAM and a ConnectX3 VPI into my HP t740 and getting results between a 2018 MacMini i3 and i5 - that’s roughly 650 to 700 in total outlay. The Apple tax is definitely alive and kicking.
Once you start to use the M1 Macs it's very hard to go back to sluggish i3 or i5s regardless of brand
I have hackintosh running on those intel mini PCs and it works like a real mac.
Trying to understand what the 3090 had to do with this review and in general. 10 series 20 series gpu's are still able to play AAA games that was just a 30 series promo
Cheapest on eBay right now is $600 and doesn’t come with the graphics card. Where’d you get it for $535?
Ebay in October
Whats this fascination with wanting to game on everyting? You want to game on a potato too?? This device should be reviewed as a home server/nas replacement.
What are you talking about. RX560 2GB can still play CSGO competative even in 2023. I dont understand where you got theat it cant. 1080p high all day long
In CSGO competitive there is a difference between being able to play and having a system that is competitive. (Saying this as someone who had 3x GE accts during the pandemic lockdowns)
What's the best micro desktop computer in 2021?
Hey! Is it good for rendering softwares ? Or specifically for architects who need to use autocad, photoshop and some light rendering tools like vray or lumion with sketchup ? Thanks 😁
Hey Patrick...do you have a fave of all the units reviewed for a simple ESX server? I would bet some are better than others. A used system is fine.
If you can find the M920x used (at a good price) with the Intel i350-t4 that would.be about ideal. These are not officially supported for ESXi but people do use them for labs. The big compatibility item is usually the NICs. We have been putting the NIC in each model's main site review page 2's to help with that.
On a macro level, I get your feedback. We are getting to the point a summary is needed.
So, i'd like to know what thedifference is betwee 920 X ,T S,,,, Q models? Anyone?
plug in that 3090. We want to see it
Why you have that thing from Clannad as your pfp? :D
Does the m920x have the 65w processor option with copper heatsink like the p330 tiny does? What is max continuous draw with a decent 6 or 8 core? I put the 9500t in my P330 and I like it.
i just got one of these but mine doesn't come with the AMD Radeon RX 560 4GB GDDR5 GPU. where can i get one?
Too bad it does not come with an AMD cpu.
I had one, but the fan ramping up I didn't like.
what is the maximum gpu wattage that can be handle by the pcie external port?
Looking into buying one of these small PC’s for myself! Are there any Tiny’s, Mini’s, or Micro’s that have power supplies within the chassis like the Mac mini does?
I believe they sold a bracket that you can velcro the external power supply to the side of the system for mounting the pc under the desk
Does anybody know if these tiny and nano Lenovo ThinkCentre/IdeaCentre are planned with 12th gen Intel CPU and windows 11 pre installed and if there is a release date set?
They should be coming out with 12th Gen. HP said its Minis are March so I would Imagine Lenovo would be around the same time. www.servethehome.com/hp-elite-mini-800-g9-with-intel-alder-lake-launched/
@@ServeTheHomeVideo I had a feeling it would be around the corner, so might as well wait a couple of months and get the latest. Really appreciate your reply. Just recently started watching your channel and I’m really enjoying your reviews on the mini pc´s :)
What would you prefer for Proxmox with several VMs (linux , Windows)? The M920 tiny oder M720 tiny with i5 CPU, 16GB RAM?
I usually get the 9 series instead of the 7 series on older units.
just got one of these new for free 16 GB ram EVO SSD i5
Wow! Awesome.
Your graphs are impossible to read on mobile
Why the hell is there a 3090 near a tiny lenovo and mac mini?
*Oooooh 3 minutes later
Part of the reason is it was having its pictures taken with the Canon R5 to the left when I decided to do this video.
plex?
Yes
Ding ! ...... The check from Lenovo has arrived !
Ha! If only! I am not sure they even know we are doing this series.
hate watching the review for a product i can not find for sale online
I can not understand why people love MacOS.
This is just an terrible system.
The Lenovo m920x i7 is terrible noisy!