Awesome! I took a history-heavy approach in mine, since going full on theory nerd for a wide audience can be somewhat alienating. Three minor quibbles, but I figured I'd bring them up since this video was more theory intensive. 1) The Bublé use of the Bb7 is a far more modern version of the chord progression, and it's a modern arrangement. Jazz improvisers tend to want to turn every part of a chord progression into some form of ii-V (or at least cycle 5 motion), so the Fm6 is often reinterpreted as a Bb7. The jazzification of chord progressions of American tin pan alley songwriting happened in the 1970's with the coming of the Real Book and Jamie Aebersold, but the Bb7 harmonization of this cadence. would never have happened pre 1950. 2) I didn't talk about the Dm7(b5) at all because, although they were wrong with their interpretation of the chord, that really wasn't the most egregious thing about the video itself
+Adam Neely thanks for checking it out. I'm glad you dug it ^.^ Yeah I didn't want to go to heavy into theory cause my main point was that it's just a super common cadence but... I suppose I kinda nerded out a bit and theory'd a little harder than expected.
Crazy, I came to exactly the same conclusion regarding the Bb7 being a viable alternative, but a more modern interpretation of the chord. Incidentally, in the original 1942 and famous 1947 recording of White Christmas, the move is (again, in C) Fmaj6/9 to Fmin6/9...very typical traditional jazz voicings. So, definitely not the alternate Bb7 thing, although my brain wants to make it that when playing since it's so satisfying.
I heard there was a secret chord, that Mariah Sang and it pleased the lords... But I don't really know music that much, really. (With apologies to the estate of Leonard Cohen)
Iffy on that Jeff Buckley analysis. Instead of Fm6 I heard a basic E7, the dominant of the A minor key it's in. And since it's already in minor, there's no expectation of a major cadence so it isn't deceptive.
+Michael Crowe (Autocosm) Yeah you're actually right. I was thinking of a different part of the song but I was rushing so I chose the wrong bit. Fair play.
No disrespect intended. I love the chance to nerd out on music theory. And you have opinions on the skeptic community which I count myself among but am eager to hear from everyone, so SUBBING! You did a great job speaking to a wide audience with this. Respect.
+Michael Crowe (Autocosm) nah mate. Wasn't disrespectful at all. I appreciate that you pointed it out or I wouldn't have known! Thanks for subbing. I appreciate it. I'll try not to disappoint. Chur!
Michael, while not a theorist, just a guitar player, I had a problem with the Vox video which you resolved. We play the song in Mariah's key of G and play the Cm6 combined with an Eb in the baseline. On guitar, I move the open C shape up 3 frets to get a sort of power chord of the Cm6/Eb. Now I feel better!
Top video, Mike. I like to think I understand music theory well but like speaking French with natives, I realise how much I don't know and end up wishing I'd studied more. Have you seen Adam Neely's channel. Such music nerdery involving polyharmonic rhythms and crazy time signatures going on there, sometimes I watch one of his videos and I feel the saliva start to drool out of the corner of my mouth as my mind goes so blank, I feel the need to go and watch a few bearing videos.
Thank you ^.^ I'm glad you liked it and understood some. Yeah someone said that he did a video about this topic too and I went and checked it out. I even cheekily linked this to him ^.^ I'll have to check out more.
Well... that puts my singing to shame. Interesting video, I know fuck all about music theory. My friend tried to explain it to me when we were at college. Went right over my head!
I hope that even those who don't understand music so much can get something out of this. If you watch right to the end you will see a long list of songs that, basically, prove my point without needing to understand all the lame-ass, music theory stuff. Thanks for watching!
I agree. That Vox video left me cold. Seemed forced. And I also like Vox in general! Seemed to me that they were making a lot out of a chord that is really just the result of colorful voice leading and not some master plan. A nice lilting harmony that's been really popular since blues music and, I'd hazard to guess, most songwriters don't even really analyze much until it comes time to break out parts or write down the arrangement. Great video! It really made me realize just how far away I am from the music theory classes I took... :)
wait, you use baroque tuning? i feel so uncomfortable watching you playing C major in B major and i think Dm7b5 should be more commonly known as D half dim i’ve heard smg2 freezy flake galaxy, it’s christmassy but it doesn’t use any plagal cadences, same with sm3dw snowball park
So was this video made to show that the Vox video called the Christmas Chord by the wrong name only? Because it does have that holiday feel. Interesting video. Thanks.
Dude, I just got finished writing up a huge (but succinct!) comment on that Vox video because it made me so mad, and then I come here and see I'm way late!! You came to almost exactly the same conclusion as me, in exactly the same way...but I bet many, many musicians who watched that video went through the same thought process. I feel like this validates us as real musicians, what with our immediate incredulity and similar conclusions. I'd like to think so, anyway.
Great video, I had the same problem w Vox's analysis. On a side note - dude are my ears wrong or is your piano about a full semitone flat? You mention it being out of tune in the video but I have my in-tune guitar in my hands and as I play along to your changes we're a half-step apart.... not meant as a criticism just curious!
Thanks ^.^ Except when I'm not in focus >.> It's the Samsung NX2000. It's kinda old so I don't know if you can get em any more but there are newer versions of it I think. It's one of them "smart cameras".
The camera's are conspiring against us! "DOWN WITH MANKIND!". Thanks for the help :) I love music, but I wouldn't know where to begin in regards to chords etc. So this was quite interesting. Cheers
I'm fairly ignorant about music theory, but I do find this topic fascinating. Your video argues that the Vox clip is wrong, and that this "secret" chord is actually present in many pop songs. However, you don't offer any alternative theories about why some songs sound so "Christmassy." That's the part that really makes me curious. Mariah Carey's song really does sound like a Christmas song, but I don't know why. When I break it down into pieces in my head, it seems like a regular doo-wop song with some jingle bells in the background. What's the magic ingredient that turns it into a real Christmas classic? Do you have any ideas?
+KidBohemia well, I don't have offer an alternative to show that their premise is flawed. That being said I think it's just the bells and what not that does it. The inclusion of "Christmas sounding" effects. Things we associate with Christmas time. In fact, I heard a song recently that sounded super Xmas and I said to myself "what Carol is this? I definitely know it but I couldn't put my finger on it" Turns out it was Ode to Joy. That Beethoven song. It had just been Christmas'd up with the same kind of effects as the Mariah song
I understand what you're saying, but I'm not convinced that that's a sufficient explanation. You could add jingle bell sounds to a song like "Sweet Dreams" by the Eurythmics or "Chanukah, oh Chanukah." Neither song would sound very Christmassy. There are some songs that just have that Christmas feeling, whether or not there are jingle bells, and others that lack it. I just don't know what the reason is.
@ 8:30 Adam Ragusea isn't even a music professor. He's a journalism major and teaches journalism. He studied music and composition, sure, but I feel they could've picked someone that would appear a lot more credible to the average viewer paying attention. (also him not even having a chordal instrument to demonstrate on kind of made me stop caring what he had to say, especially if this guy is the best vox could manage, but whatever) If you want to hear more about this particular video, Adam Neely did a very good response to it. ruclips.net/video/V5WfgMVtueo/видео.html
Blah blah blah. You can try to break it down into WHAT YOU KNOW but just because you couldn't explain it doesn't mean it doesn't exist (ask the quantum physicists). There IS a commonality that classic Christmas songs have and if there wasn't any then every silly attempt at Christmas music would succeed and feel "Chrismassy" like the next attempt.
Awesome! I took a history-heavy approach in mine, since going full on theory nerd for a wide audience can be somewhat alienating.
Three minor quibbles, but I figured I'd bring them up since this video was more theory intensive.
1) The Bublé use of the Bb7 is a far more modern version of the chord progression, and it's a modern arrangement. Jazz improvisers tend to want to turn every part of a chord progression into some form of ii-V (or at least cycle 5 motion), so the Fm6 is often reinterpreted as a Bb7. The jazzification of chord progressions of American tin pan alley songwriting happened in the 1970's with the coming of the Real Book and Jamie Aebersold, but the Bb7 harmonization of this cadence. would never have happened pre 1950.
2) I didn't talk about the Dm7(b5) at all because, although they were wrong with their interpretation of the chord, that really wasn't the most egregious thing about the video itself
+Adam Neely thanks for checking it out. I'm glad you dug it ^.^
Yeah I didn't want to go to heavy into theory cause my main point was that it's just a super common cadence but... I suppose I kinda nerded out a bit and theory'd a little harder than expected.
Crazy, I came to exactly the same conclusion regarding the Bb7 being a viable alternative, but a more modern interpretation of the chord. Incidentally, in the original 1942 and famous 1947 recording of White Christmas, the move is (again, in C) Fmaj6/9 to Fmin6/9...very typical traditional jazz voicings. So, definitely not the alternate Bb7 thing, although my brain wants to make it that when playing since it's so satisfying.
Yes, thank you for this, I was pretty enraged by that Vox video too!
I heard there was a secret chord, that Mariah Sang and it pleased the lords...
But I don't really know music that much, really.
(With apologies to the estate of Leonard Cohen)
Great to see more music related stuff on here, can't wait for your collab with bearing.
Iffy on that Jeff Buckley analysis. Instead of Fm6 I heard a basic E7, the dominant of the A minor key it's in. And since it's already in minor, there's no expectation of a major cadence so it isn't deceptive.
+Michael Crowe (Autocosm) Yeah you're actually right. I was thinking of a different part of the song but I was rushing so I chose the wrong bit.
Fair play.
No disrespect intended. I love the chance to nerd out on music theory. And you have opinions on the skeptic community which I count myself among but am eager to hear from everyone, so SUBBING! You did a great job speaking to a wide audience with this. Respect.
+Michael Crowe (Autocosm) nah mate. Wasn't disrespectful at all. I appreciate that you pointed it out or I wouldn't have known!
Thanks for subbing. I appreciate it. I'll try not to disappoint. Chur!
Michael, while not a theorist, just a guitar player, I had a problem with the Vox video which you resolved. We play the song in Mariah's key of G and play the Cm6 combined with an Eb in the baseline. On guitar, I move the open C shape up 3 frets to get a sort of power chord of the Cm6/Eb. Now I feel better!
Top video, Mike. I like to think I understand music theory well but like speaking French with natives, I realise how much I don't know and end up wishing I'd studied more.
Have you seen Adam Neely's channel. Such music nerdery involving polyharmonic rhythms and crazy time signatures going on there, sometimes I watch one of his videos and I feel the saliva start to drool out of the corner of my mouth as my mind goes so blank, I feel the need to go and watch a few bearing videos.
Thank you ^.^ I'm glad you liked it and understood some.
Yeah someone said that he did a video about this topic too and I went and checked it out. I even cheekily linked this to him ^.^
I'll have to check out more.
Well... that puts my singing to shame.
Interesting video, I know fuck all about music theory. My friend tried to explain it to me when we were at college. Went right over my head!
I hope that even those who don't understand music so much can get something out of this. If you watch right to the end you will see a long list of songs that, basically, prove my point without needing to understand all the lame-ass, music theory stuff.
Thanks for watching!
Thankyou! Good one for us music students!
i didn't understand jack shit. Happy to see you back XD
I agree. That Vox video left me cold. Seemed forced. And I also like Vox in general! Seemed to me that they were making a lot out of a chord that is really just the result of colorful voice leading and not some master plan. A nice lilting harmony that's been really popular since blues music and, I'd hazard to guess, most songwriters don't even really analyze much until it comes time to break out parts or write down the arrangement. Great video! It really made me realize just how far away I am from the music theory classes I took... :)
wait, you use baroque tuning? i feel so uncomfortable watching you playing C major in B major
and i think Dm7b5 should be more commonly known as D half dim
i’ve heard smg2 freezy flake galaxy, it’s christmassy but it doesn’t use any plagal cadences, same with sm3dw snowball park
So was this video made to show that the Vox video called the Christmas Chord by the wrong name only? Because it does have that holiday feel. Interesting video. Thanks.
anyone notice that the piano is a semitone out?
Dude, I just got finished writing up a huge (but succinct!) comment on that Vox video because it made me so mad, and then I come here and see I'm way late!! You came to almost exactly the same conclusion as me, in exactly the same way...but I bet many, many musicians who watched that video went through the same thought process. I feel like this validates us as real musicians, what with our immediate incredulity and similar conclusions. I'd like to think so, anyway.
Thanks for your comment ^.^ It did tick me off a lot, hence why I made the video ;)
Great video, I had the same problem w Vox's analysis. On a side note - dude are my ears wrong or is your piano about a full semitone flat? You mention it being out of tune in the video but I have my in-tune guitar in my hands and as I play along to your changes we're a half-step apart.... not meant as a criticism just curious!
Ahaha yeah it's a really old piano :P
Thanks for your comment ^.^
Ian Luxton Exactly what happened when I tried hahahah!!!!
he said it very quickly so it passed by everybody but the word is enharmonic ......so it's the same chord but in a different key as a different name
Lol dude let’s just throw that shit into Melodyne so we can find out the truth
What camera do you use Michael? I really like the quality of it
Thanks ^.^ Except when I'm not in focus >.>
It's the Samsung NX2000. It's kinda old so I don't know if you can get em any more but there are newer versions of it I think. It's one of them "smart cameras".
Smart cameras huh? Do they make dumb camera's.. its probably more my speed :P
Yeah dumb camera's are the worst. They just take photos of random crap and sends it to your ex.
The camera's are conspiring against us! "DOWN WITH MANKIND!".
Thanks for the help :) I love music, but I wouldn't know where to begin in regards to chords etc. So this was quite interesting. Cheers
Haha no probs at all ^.^
Glad you enjoyed :)
I'm fairly ignorant about music theory, but I do find this topic fascinating. Your video argues that the Vox clip is wrong, and that this "secret" chord is actually present in many pop songs. However, you don't offer any alternative theories about why some songs sound so "Christmassy." That's the part that really makes me curious. Mariah Carey's song really does sound like a Christmas song, but I don't know why. When I break it down into pieces in my head, it seems like a regular doo-wop song with some jingle bells in the background. What's the magic ingredient that turns it into a real Christmas classic? Do you have any ideas?
+KidBohemia well, I don't have offer an alternative to show that their premise is flawed.
That being said I think it's just the bells and what not that does it. The inclusion of "Christmas sounding" effects. Things we associate with Christmas time.
In fact, I heard a song recently that sounded super Xmas and I said to myself "what Carol is this? I definitely know it but I couldn't put my finger on it"
Turns out it was Ode to Joy. That Beethoven song. It had just been Christmas'd up with the same kind of effects as the Mariah song
I understand what you're saying, but I'm not convinced that that's a sufficient explanation. You could add jingle bell sounds to a song like "Sweet Dreams" by the Eurythmics or "Chanukah, oh Chanukah." Neither song would sound very Christmassy. There are some songs that just have that Christmas feeling, whether or not there are jingle bells, and others that lack it. I just don't know what the reason is.
welcome back Magic Mike...you're the stripper guy right?
Merry Hirst to you too
6:32 Good boy/girl!
Why the hell did I watch this? I don't know shit about music.
There's a note. Read the damn note
vicente alvarado note?
Michael Rowlands the note in vox's video : "the chord may also be interpeted as an f minor with a sixth on the bass". At 3:40
+vicente alvarado still... beside the point...
+vicente alvarado also, dm7b5/Ab is not the same as an fm/D
@ 8:30
Adam Ragusea isn't even a music professor. He's a journalism major and teaches journalism. He studied music and composition, sure, but I feel they could've picked someone that would appear a lot more credible to the average viewer paying attention. (also him not even having a chordal instrument to demonstrate on kind of made me stop caring what he had to say, especially if this guy is the best vox could manage, but whatever)
If you want to hear more about this particular video, Adam Neely did a very good response to it. ruclips.net/video/V5WfgMVtueo/видео.html
This was class...but i thought the intro (along with the title) was enough. ;)
This is the video that'd put me in your bed if I were even the slightest bit bisexual. To my own disappointment, I'm not :(
Great video once again.
Blah blah blah. You can try to break it down into WHAT YOU KNOW but just because you couldn't explain it doesn't mean it doesn't exist (ask the quantum physicists). There IS a commonality that classic Christmas songs have and if there wasn't any then every silly attempt at Christmas music would succeed and feel "Chrismassy" like the next attempt.
What is this commonality