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What Causes Addiction & Depression With Johann Hari | Rich Roll Podcast
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- Опубликовано: 14 янв 2019
- Johann Hari has written for The New York Times & The Los Angeles Times, and is the author of 'Chasing The Scream' and 'Lost Connections'. This is a conversation about the causes and solutions for addiction and depression.
Enjoy!
✌🏼🌱 - Rich
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Hi I'm Rich Roll. I'm a vegan ultra-endurance athlete, author, podcaster, public speaker & wellness evangelist at large. But mainly I'm a dad of four. If you want to know more, the NY Times wrote some nice things"
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I was an alcoholic and heroin addict for years got sober kept relapsing overdose 4 years ago finely joined AA and met a community of amazing people have been sober ever since. Had to change everything socialize exercise sleep eat healthy! Changed my life never been happier simply a miracle
Awesome well done 😀
Well done mate ❤️❤️🙏
Believe it or not I'm happier now than I ever have been in my entire life and Probably sounds crazy since all of my friends are locked up or dead and I spend all of my time alone my twin brother lives right next door to me but we have issues so I speak to him about once a week and usually ends up in a fight but for the first time in my life I can contently sit by myself alone with my thoughts and be okay with that I no longer hate myself and I finally found contentment and for that I have no need to seek external validation because now that I like me it doesn't matter if anybody else does or not because honestly I don't really like being around people anymore so I talked my cat's ear off and he exercises great tolerance LOL I'm an animal lover in fact I love nature in general people not so much but everything else I love and I love living in Florida not at the beach But Central Florida right at the edge of civilization where is I don't want to I don't have to see another soul for days and it gives me peace of mind just to admire the beauty of nature and here in Central Florida we have nature in abundance and with this being one of the last free states it's beginning to look like me and a few other "Legacy Americans" around me wouldn't have it any other way. That said lately I'm beginning to worry a lot about people because it seems like the woke far-left are working overtime at trying to make everyone crazy and it's working it's beginning to make me crazy which I've kind of always been a little crazy but I worry about everyone else because I don't think they're used to it the way I am and the cracks are starting to show and I sincerely hope we make our way through this with the minimal amount of pain and suffering because people deserve better. I am resilient so I'll make it but I see people not coping very well and it looks like there are more rough times ahead and it troubles me to see everyone not knowing what to do in a world that doesn't make sense anymore.
@@bunnylebowski thanks for the encouraging words but don't worry about me I'll be fine I always managed to make mighty fine lemonade from my lemons I'm used to making the most of what I have I'm resourceful enough to make it even if I do it alone and I sincerely appreciate the moral support
You are the miracle Andrew. Keep on keeping on. Love from Texas
I am a psychologist with many clients on the anxiety/depression continuum. Despite years of training and tools to use in service of these lovely people I believe my most important contribution to my client’s is being able to tell their stories of their loses of love and care and this disconnection with others. I am so grateful to
Johan Hari for validating my views but also leading me into creative directions.
Dr. Denise Giblin
PLEASE CREATE AWAY!!!!!
Thank YOU
I'm reading Hari's book, and find it thorough and profound. I'm struck - halfway into this talk - by how much Rich seems to be invested in hyperindividualism. Let me explain. When Hari tells the story about the cow as a solution to a man's depression in Cambodja, a solution found together with his peers, who were willing to listen to and work with him and then solve the problem TOGETHER, Rich immediately returns to personal responsibility and personal psychology. He just seems unable to accept collective responsibility for depression, whether they are the conditions we create on a political, cultural, judicial or social level. And yet the idea that we are responsible for each other is one of the main points of Hari's book. Of course, the notion of collective responsibility has political implications, which is - I suspect - the ground for Rich's resistance. It reeks perhaps of socialism and goes against the American way and certainly against the (masculine) ideal of 'rugged individualism'.
Totally agree. I thought the same thing.
Very well said. I was turned off by all the political jabs. I very much enjoyed this podcast and feel very grateful for the insight shared. The idea of living and functioning with purpose and in community with others is HUGE!!! I very much agree with these concepts but could’ve done without all the blatant political slams and socialism propaganda. I don’t feel like the government is taking money out of my pocket in order to line the pockets of the wealthy. That’s ridiculous. Its just another lie that the liberal media keeps spoon-feeding us. Furthermore, it’s not up to our government to make us happy. We need to look after each other and intentionally make community and purpose higher priority in our lives.
Loufi303 @ Toni Hartman: well said!
@Vegan Parent Rich Roll is now an A list winner. He can virtue signal all he wants but he has had and continues to have a lot of privileges that most others in the world can only dream of. For him he needs to fall back on the "I worked hard so therefore that is why I succeeded" narrative to justify in his own mind; however, he really does a disservice to others. To effect great change requires great collective action and not just in an atomistic voluntary units (ala Libertarian/neo liberal) fashion, whatever one wants to label it.
i don't think that's it at all ... he worked so hard to stop being a life wasting addict! ... the subject of this podcast is addiction and depression!
I almost fell out of my chair when you related the story of the obese woman whose eating disorder began the day her sexual trauma started. All these years I thought that my addiction to food began because I was a depressed child. I can pinpoint the day that something sexually traumatic happened and I turned to food for the next 40 years of my life. So simple. So obvious. Your interview changed my life. Now I can start the path to further, deeper healing.
Ugh why do u fatties always get sexual
the problem is not lack of social interaction , the problem is finding the right group of people to be accepted in .. SOCIAL ACCEPTANCE is the key here . not SOCIAL INTERACTION on it's own .
You have something there but it is not just acceptance that is lacking, although it is important for our need to belong, to be tribal. It is the transactional type of interactions that is so corrosive. It does not allow for genuine, meaningful connection. This society is causing a crisis of authenticity by forcing people into inauthentic roles whereby our human needs cannot be expressed human to human. It is also a problem of cultural bias for "positivity" that forces us into hiding our pain.
I agree, this is why AA and other related programs work, they take the approach of WE are responsible for each other. I've noticed a lot of the time when those programs don't work, the people it doesn't work for so not accept the connection offered in that program. Yes we as individuals have a responsibility to reach out, however these programs are the only ones I can think of where you can walk out of a prison cell and into the those rooms and be the most important person in the room, who is accepted and not judged.
one of my favorite podcasts thank you, depression and anxiety need to be approached as a community and with compassion
Johann is like a real world super hero. The amount of retained knowledge he spits is wild: studies, dates, names - all in a charge to un-fuck humanity.
Well said.🥰
I've listened to many, many RRP podcasts now, a few hundred I'm sure, and this one stands as my favorite. As someone who has struggled with mental health issues for many years, most of my nearly 60 years, I found this profoundly helpful and moving. I resonated completely with everything this man expressed, and I will definitely be listening again. Thank you for this one, from the bottom of my heart. I've got both of his books on reserve at my local library, and will be doing a deep dive into his work. I know there was a lot said about the monologue at the conclusion of Zach Bush' talk, but frankly, I found Johann Hari's words spoken at the end of this podcast to be far more moving and powerful. That's just me, I know. One of the great gifts of this podcast is the breadth and and depth of information shared - something for us all. Thanks again for all the work you do.
I got to know about Johann Hari, from a brief RUclips interview of about 20 minutes. After that interview i'm glad to be able to listen to him speaking about his work in every RUclips video i find, like Ted talks, podcasts, etc.
Love your work Johann Hari! I am hoping we will realize this depression from a lack of autonomy starts with our children in forced schooling. Notice I didn't say "education." What children are really learning is how to give up their agency.
so so true!
Indeed, we're taught how to be another brick in the wall, not to sing our unique soulsongs.
But it starts closer to home IMO:
Generation after generation of dysfunctional family units as some tiny secret 'cult' to be born in.
@@evadebruijn yes--the parents were also taught how to be bricks in the wall.
Finding your tribe isn't always that easy, particularly if you are stuck in a culture that doesn't acccept who you are.
Absolutely see my comment above 👍
It's far healthier to be alone than in the wrong tribe, and worth the wait for when you do find your people.
Alex, never mind about other's acceptance of who you are. YOU accept who you are, and everything else will fall into place. And don't take it personally if people don't accept you. The majority of humans walking this earth can't even accept themselves, and concequently they project that onto everyone else. Focus on the inward work :) x
You are right pal! I have internet friends who share my interests, but no one in real life. There are so few of us out there it seems.
@@J.Moyine I think, no matter how well-intentioned this statement is, this is exactly the kind of thinking that Hari is cautioning us against. His whole book is that we tell everyone depression and anxiety are individual problems, cured by self-love, self-care, self-everything...but the culture of the self is the problem. We need to stop thinking of these as individual problems with individual solutions. Because when someone walks every day in a culture of rejection and judgment, telling someone to just love themselves is actually pretty insulting...like telling someone who's dying of thirst that they just need water.
Many of us feel disconnected from our tribe(parents, siblings, aunt's uncle's grandparents) the new tribe is work and friends(facebook), the connections are interrupted starting by daycare where our parents shove us out and they prefer their tribe(workcolleagues and clients) over people we actually love(kids) TOTALLY UNNATURAL
Yes i agree, but with 1 salary i can t find a place to live.!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sure that's true in many cases & I'm not denying anyone's experience. But at least in America, it's not a choice.
Despite how much I worry way things are right now I still have faith in Humanity because I think most of our problems are the result of our stressful lives because this is nothing even remotely similar to the world we evolved to live in this is certainly not how we got here because our biggest assets are working with each other rather than against each other we have inverted priorities and seem to have created the worst possible environment for ourselves and I'm becoming convinced that there was a worst way to do things we would be doing it that way instead but as the old saying goes Hard Times make strong men strong men make good times Good Times make weak men and weak men make hard times we're just in a difficult part of that cycle right now but we're resilient and more adaptable and when things get bad enough we will learn to reconnect and appreciate each other again especially if the population takes a big hit because we've always been so interdependent that when we don't have the help of others because they're not there when they finally are again because we've recovered enough to only fight back some when people reenter your life you no longer view them as an obstacle preventing you from getting what you want and you're glad they're there we are so poorly adapted to our natural environment without our technology and each other that when somebody's on the other end of that log helping you build your shelter knowing that you will do the same Everything Changes and we once again become greater than the sum of our parts because that is our best tool and our key to success that's how we got here and when we finally figure it out we can move on together into the future to see what life has in store for us next
I understand, the lack of friends. There is simply no time to nurture friendships. I work 7 days a week. Most nights I get home between 7-8pm. I don't have fancy things. I'm just trying to survive.
You have to find a way my friend. Maybe it's time to look for more fulfilling work? Hang in there.
It's heartbreaking to see where you have to work so many hours Tim. I really feel for you. I will be praying for you today. May God be with you and show you His kindness and grace. May the love of His Son Jesus surround you and embrace you warmly. It sounds like you need it. Please take care.
@@unrealoneill Ya because there is shit loads of it out there.
We believe that childhood trauma and disconnectedness are leading causes of addiction. We so enjoy Johann Hari take on things. Thank you for your voice, keep up the good work, we need it!
The only common denominator between all addicts of any social background and distinction is that they are notorious liars. Addiction affects predominantly young healthy criminals. I have been trying to have the discovery of the nature of addiction known for years to end the war on drugs. I would like to help you as a recovering addict and psychologist. Addiction is the psychology of a liar, drugs don’t cause addiction and only liars get hooked and only honesty gets freedom. The tragedy of addiction is children who revenge a childhood hurt, or trauma, against their parents learning from example. Addicts don’t forgive, are needy of attention that steal from others, and have secrets that tell in AA meetings to reveal who they truly are to take off the mask and heal, ending the identity deception. Liars bring up liars, addiction runs in families. Parents hurt their children and children retaliate becoming victims of themselves to conceal the hatred and hurt others. I am alone socially ostracised by liars paying the price for being honest. I can prove my claim that the obvious truth is addiction is the psychology of a liar dropping mortality rates when my theory is known. It is harder to convince a fool that to know the truth is better than to be deceived than to deceive him.
Hari states that children need “unsupervised play,” and I believe a more accurate term is “unstructured play.” Not that parents need to not keep their eye on their kids or give them boundaries in which to play in (stay on your street, in your court, on our block), but that they need to have time to play without direction or rules other than normal social rules.
Unsupervised is fundamental here. Unstructured is a byproduct.
I'm so happy you had Hari on! While I've only been working at a substance abuse rehab center for 6 months now, I can't think of 1 client who has not said that they isolate in some way. Many of our clients are on medications for various reasons, but our medical director's view is that many of the medications are just to help the clients "get their head above water" so they can start dealing with the deeper core issues. Again, thank you!
What a wonderful and articulate man! Thanks Rich this was a favorite episode!
I really like how both these guys are able to listen and hear the person out, they validate each other and respect the other person’s point of view regarding addiction before explaining their different opinions. Very good at civil and respectful communication, it’s refreshing. I love johann hari so much, he Is doing so much amazing work to get rid of the stigma and enlighten the general public about the reality of drug addicts, thank you so much guys 🙏🏻
The only common denominator between all addicts of any social background and distinction is that they are notorious liars. Addiction affects predominantly young healthy criminals. I have been trying to have the discovery of the nature of addiction known for years to end the war on drugs. I would like to help you as a recovering addict and psychologist. Addiction is the psychology of a liar, drugs don’t cause addiction and only liars get hooked and only honesty gets freedom. The tragedy of addiction is children who revenge a childhood hurt, or trauma, against their parents learning from example. Addicts don’t forgive, are needy of attention that steal from others, and have secrets that tell in AA meetings to reveal who they truly are to take off the mask and heal, ending the identity deception. Liars bring up liars, addiction runs in families. Parents hurt their children and children retaliate becoming victims of themselves to conceal the hatred and hurt others. I am alone socially ostracised by liars paying the price for being honest. I can prove my claim that the obvious truth is addiction is the psychology of a liar dropping mortality rates when my theory is known. It is harder to convince a fool that to know the truth is better than to be deceived than to deceive him.
@@michelangelope830 I disagree, morality and character defects aka being a pathological liar is not inherent to addiction. They might co-occur frequently, sure, probably having something to do with the fact that many personality disordered individuals are prone to substance abuse, but addiction and Lying do not always go hand in hand. How would you explain that? An honest person can be an addict just as well as a dishonest person can. I don’t think that’s right… please explain further….
@@sarahcouture24 you have your facts wrong. As i said earlier the only common denominator of all addicts of any background and distinction is that they are notorious liars. It is said that you know an addict is lying when his lips are moving. Addicts are a living lie, a character of victim acted out. Media and others misinform the public about addiction omitting the lying behaviour or explaining it as a means to feed the addiction, but if that was the case why addicted footballers like Maradona cheat playing? or why addicts are unfaithful to their partners? Liars believe harmful lies that don’t make sense and reject the truth that agrees with reality. In order to prove i have discovered the cure to addiction many years ago i need my theory to be news and addiction rates would collapse.
I love to listen to Johann Hari, he is an inspiration to me. Thanks to his knowledge, i could find a sense that i am not powerless in front of my depression, to understand that my depression is not a problem, in fact is a message from my body, a signal that i have to honor and listen to, in order to understand what is trying to tell me. That it is ok to feel the way i feel, and that i am not alone, there are many of us struggling with loneliness, lack of healthy connections, and depression and anxiety.
Love and connection can be really powerful things.
Awesome video!!!
Johan Hari will be the next Jordan Peterson the way he is going and views humans outside the square. Nice work Mr Hari.
Except Jordan has horrible political views that perpetuate depression
To compare hari to Peterson is to fundamentally misunderstand the toxicity of Peterson…..
So glad to hear this interview w/Mr. Hari. Thank you. In the midst of the massive societal changes need, our takeaway might be to find or begin communities of shared interests and to participate in them. Isolation is not a good thing.
Johann, thank you for your work and your voice, it’s so important. 💚
I would like that the entire world could listen this incredible interwiew. THANK YOU SO MUCH
You’re already spoiling us with your amazing podcasts this year Rich! 😃👍x
Amazing, please get him on your podcast again, I could listen to his stories for days
This is so right on! I've been saying this for years! They literally don't know how to handle people experiencing normal feelings in life! Medications are not the answer!
I think medications are part of the answer, but not the silver bullet. Meds can help stabilize in many cases, and then during that stability the person can create positive habits and routines and develop some normalcy. However, when people run out of medication or just stop cold turkey, they lose that stability. Schizophrenia, for example, has severe results for leaving the medication. However, when people consistently take it, many say they reclaimed their life.
It's not the work that you do it's the lack of control over your work that makes you depressed :-0 this makes so much sense.
If my family stopped talking to me because of my addiction I'd become more depressed and say " fuck you guys if you aren't there for me good riddance". If your family members (especially your children or friends) hug them and tell them you love them and that you'll always be there no matter what. They are using because nothing takes the mental pain away. We are alone.
The last time I quit I wanted to kill myself, and I would have if I stayed clean! I already feel terrible about being an addict I don't need you to judge me I need to know you are there for me. . .the less connected we are the more we feel the need to numb.
I completely understand and agree.
Exactly how I feel. No-one wants to be an addict if they feel loved and safe...
What a great conversation touching upon the truth of addiction as well as depression. Thank you for this interview. I work with men who are benefitting from the connection they are experiencing while in group therapy. We need connection!
Johann could not have said it better. Lost connection is the key! Key to recovery AND preventive actions so people don't need to be addicted in the first place.
All points Johann makes are simply common sense, thankfully he says it very well and clearly.
Easily the best Rich Roll episode ever
Would love to see a conversation with Johann and Dr.Gabor Mate. Perfect fit, and both are very much forward thinkers and rare gems! They could help the world radically shift perspective on substance use and mental health. Please continue the awareness and highly educational content!
Listened to the entire podcast in my car. AAAAAmazing. As a native french canadian, the accent was challenging, I will probably listen to it a second time in a few week. As a teacher working with teenaldults living big learning difficulties, I found there very interesting paths for my own interventions. Also, many objects to discuss with them, hoping it makes us grow our thinkings on matters such as personnal and social emancipation. Wow, M.Hari has a so developped thinking on the matters discussed, what a wonderful chat. My personnal best up to date. Cheer!
Absolute best description of the reason for cause of addiction I’ve ever heard, along with Dr. Gabor Maté. Very well said. He’s saying what I’m thinking.
I know this is an old video, but thank you Rick and Jon
One of the most thoughtful conversations I have heard on this subject.
Thank You!
contrast to hari conversations with joe rogan. how a slightly sexist judo guy can demolish the barriers to seeing a woke guys impoverished inner workings is beyond me... not understanding #2020
Rich would be good to see you chat to slaughterhouse workers gone vegan. There's a few.... and they're really interesting. PTSD is common... drug alcohol and violence problems are common....
Interesting. Are there any good articles, books, videos on that topic that you'd suggest?
I have read everything by Johann Hari and I must say bravo!!! He is literally the reason I entered the addiction field.
The only common denominator between all addicts of any social background and distinction is that they are notorious liars. Addiction affects predominantly young healthy criminals. I have been trying to have the discovery of the nature of addiction known for years to end the war on drugs. I would like to help you as a recovering addict and psychologist. Addiction is the psychology of a liar, drugs don’t cause addiction and only liars get hooked and only honesty gets freedom. The tragedy of addiction is children who revenge a childhood hurt, or trauma, against their parents learning from example. Addicts don’t forgive, are needy of attention that steal from others, and have secrets that tell in AA meetings to reveal who they truly are to take off the mask and heal, ending the identity deception. Liars bring up liars, addiction runs in families. Parents hurt their children and children retaliate becoming victims of themselves to conceal the hatred and hurt others. I am alone socially ostracised by liars paying the price for being honest. I can prove my claim that the obvious truth is addiction is the psychology of a liar dropping mortality rates when my theory is known. It is harder to convince a fool that to know the truth is better than to be deceived than to deceive him.
I have to admit, this is one of the greatest interview I’ve seen in a while. The interviewer was attentive without interruption but still kept enough composure to challenge him and not agree with everything he said. 👍
Rich did interrupt Johann several times. And further, challenged Johann's brilliant understanding of collective consciousness being the answer, many times. Thank you, Johann! A very gracious human being!
Mind blowing video.
I’m so thankful for Rich Roll and Johann Hari.
In a world of confusing and contradicting public messages regarding health, mental health, diet and addiction I’m grateful to come to a channel that values what we should be relying on, evidence base science.
No one can argue with 2+2=4.
Our phycology needs are not that different from that.
Awesome interview. Very valid points. Thank you.
Thank you guys for being so passionate😊💓
Rich thank you som much for your work, and your podcast and bringing these ameazing people so we all have the acces to their knowledge. It is so awesomly helpful!!
what a wonderfull man thank your Johann for the book
Phenomenal insights, analogies that the lay man can understand. I’ve come to learn a lot of these things through trial and error in personal life and everything Johann is saying is the right direction.
You know I really find this conversation to be quite meaningful and I’m sure very helpful for a lot of people I think it’s well overdue. What concerns me is at one hour and one minute and 57 seconds he’s talking about there being a place for chemical antidepressants now here’s the problem because it hasn’t even been brought into the fold or taken into consideration exactly there’s almost a hinting about it and some of the dialogue about junk food. That is that most antidepressants are mainly comprised of fluoride a.k.a. aluminum waist and what this does is it dumbs down The individual so that they become complacent and lose any will or motivation to even participate in their own lives which will eventually be regurgitated as being more depressed and potentially suicidal which some of these drugs actually do have a history of. Now let’s take it one step further and take into consideration that the number one ingredient in rat and roach poisoning is fluoride and another step of understanding is that the German Nazis used that ingredient to dumb down concentration camp prisoners so that even though they might’ve been stronger and they were greater numbers they would not resist even their own execution. Those scientist came here and work for the American government after the Nazis were disbanded. Shortly there after we find that it’s been included and not only are water and also everything that takes tapwater
80% of a gallon of milk is tapwater all commercial drinks are made with tapwater and the tapwater is also consumed through showering brushing your teeth which by the way fluoride is also a number one ingredient and most commercial brands of toothpaste and then how about the anti-caking Asian and white table salt which is also a compound of fluoride a.k.a. aluminum. So is it any wonder that we feel disconnected because we actually have been by this particular chemical agent that has been included in so many things like our under arm deodorant and all the processed food that is consumed which is always laced with it that we would feel Not only disconnected from our animal instincts which are known as our intuition but our ability to discern what is what is not who is who is not in our highest good because we are completely detached from ourselves and that is the greatest cause of loneliness is that loss of connection with our own divinity
Which is translated to us feeling as though we can’t connect with anyone else either and maybe that’s what causes people to keep their distance or to have a safe distance meeting having an artificial relationship that has Shelly has no meaning and does not gratifying anyway through social media which is definitely a huge cause of further disconnection.
What you eat what you drink what you digest more importantly is so important and then you look at all the artificial devices that were using that are covered with aluminum or were using it to cover our food or put our food on where we using a Teflon pan and those gases from heating the Teflon are being ingested through breathing or the chem trails that are being sprinkled on us before people even set foot out of that people like me who live in their car watch this happening day after day year after year consistently and it’s falling into the ground and it’s going into the ground water so even if you don’t have municipal water you’re still getting a ton of chemicals and how about Monsanto and all of the chemicals that are being ingested because it’s been used to grow the food and she even used to protect the food but the food didn’t need protection if the soil had the proper amendments which of course you need almost 100 nutrients and how about the food that is grown with no nutrients but looks healthy and so people are feeling As though they’re getting plenty of nutrition meanwhile they’re suffering from major toxicity and mass malnutrition
It’s the equivalent of having a vehicle that requires gas oil antifreeze proper air circulation and saying that the only thing that matters is gas and making sure that it has that as long as it doesn’t should operate
I just how well will it? I don’t think anyone is going to debate that.
But you’re right in the sense that we are mentally emotionally physically psychologically and spiritually very very sick and I loved that you mentioned Krishnamurti
But there’s nothing normal there’s nothing healthy about trying to adjust to very sick society I have been saying that for over a decade because once I heard it it stuck
It was like having the truth spot right between my eyebrows on my third eye and I just couldn’t wipe it off
We are divine beings we have been belittled we have been imprisoned and we have participated in all of it as we have a choice but we can’t see the unseen which is unavailable to us because of our beliefs we’re just so strong and completely keep us in chains
These are important conversations and what we do with this information is extremely important and I don’t just mean one organization a group of people I’m talking about every individual the collective combined we have to show up for one another this is the time it is the age of Aquarius as of December 21, 2020
We cannot go back to the way we have been living the last 2000 years
first one to show up for ourselves and help support others in showing up for them as well and build communities that don’t rely on government or organizations for handouts when we can give each other a hand up no one should be left behind ever
I can’t speak for anyone outside of myself but I can tell you I am my brothers keeper and whenever I have something to give so long as I have not given the last of what I have because I matter also, I will do just that because I feel like my life has purpose when I am giving when I am loving and I am caring when I am kind when I am compassionate that’s what feeds my soul and to me that’s more important than anything else
💓
Don’t forget that sounds actually radiate and that radiation causes biological disturbances that are not taking it consideration that also work in tandem with fluoride poisoning so we can’t dismiss anything because everything is connected
And people aren’t looking at the deficiencies in agriculture or the illnesses and diseases or even the medicines that have been used on the animals they call food which I disagree with. What is the growing process for wheat is it something the body recognizes as food or is it considered a foreign substance how many chemicals they use to force it to go to seed and what is the process after that? What are people truly consuming what are they digesting. What about the axis of the brain and the gut?
All these things have not entered into the conversation they haven’t even been considered so I look at it as a blessing and guys were I’m giving you that prompt because there’s so much more to this than meets the eye
There’s a reason why people behave the way they do and what about the phone what about all the radiation how does that affect your thyroid how does that cause fear biologically how does that affect your other organs what does it do to your heart and electromagnetic frequency that your heart emits
Dr Bruce Lipton
Dr Disposa hopefully I got his name right
There’s many doctors out here and there’s many perceptions of the truth let’s start connecting the dots and then try this conversation again it is so huge people have no idea
That’s why all the suggestions that I have made which I couldn’t fit into one comment were so important so I’m just gonna hint at them and let you all figure it out wheat is a huge problem water is a huge problem air is a huge problem the animals and agriculture all these things have been dismissed or not included
And don’t think for a second it wasn’t planned just like 2020 and the Covid crisis
When it comes to the vaccination all I have to say is I wouldn’t do it and you can figure out why because there’s some information out there that will give you a good why not
It’s time to be responsible for yourself and illuminate the need for money because money is just a tool what you’re really looking for stability and security and you can’t get that from other people and if we’ve learned anything from 2020 it’s that everyone regardless of what your financial status or lifestyle is will be affected when someone else is in control and as you discussed the happiest people have control over their own lives as opposed to having someone else control their lives
Huge isn’t it?
And let’s not forget the liver is the chemical factory of the body
So how does that translate to having mental and emotional issues well I can tell you from experience and has a lot to do with it and so that’s another facet that has not been taken into consideration
Tich, I love the way you go derp into every interview.
Hari is great in explaining the problem
What this issue really brings up is America's refusal to acknowledge how our obsession with making more money and devaluing anyone who isn't wealthy has caused misery at every level of our society. We could solve many issues, including addiction, if we embraced the idea of universal basic income along with the realization that we equate monetary wealth with inherent goodness in a person.
As a kiwi I can say you've hit the nail on the head.
A human can love a cat or a dog more than a human who has the brain of a cat or dog because they look like a human or something less than a Hollywood actor. And there's this rampant consumerism to fill up this hole in our souls. 😱🤓😢😻🙈🙉✌️
A brilliant podcast and so valuable hearing his experiences with disenfranchised people finding connection and community. Wonderful.
It all goes back to trauma and missing out on important childhood developmental stages.
Thankyou for this invaluable interview Rich🙏🤍x
Johann is so intelligent, articulate, intuitive and charming. Thankyou Johann for your extremely valuable contributions to our tribe🙏🤍x
Rich is so articulate 👏👏👏 Feel so deeply for addicts, such a desperate and lonely situation. I truly believe step 3 can help anyone ☝️🌈
What was step three?
@@unrealoneill step 3 of the 12 Step programme
What exactly is step 3?
@@rosemarie999from the 12 step programme
So, it was the 12 step program and not some 9 steps they mentioned early on? OK, Thanks! @@babbaruff1045
WOW - and this was before "social distancing"
This is pretty emotionally energetic for a Rich Roll Podcast.
Thank you Rich Roll for this profoundly articulate and enlightening discussion on such an important topic. Namaste
Brilliant. Loved this. Thanks guys x
Back taxes took my paid off home in a total state of depression/isolation/trauma.
Worked my whole life and sacrificed my children’s lives for it.
I’m hurt deeply. In consolable.
I’m really sorry to hear that :( Yes, ultimately we own nothing, even if it’s paid for, in a world controlled by criminal protection racket ‘governments’
Love the connection to worker cooperatives. Dr Richard Wolff discusses the relationship between worker control and psychological health too!
Saw him do an interview with Bill Maher a few years back. Glad to have found him again in this format.
amazing interview, such important points on depression, thanks!
Johan knows his stuff, awesome !
Holy shit, man!!!
That was such a conclusive and interloping unveiling!!! I'm writing about a similar societal blindspot and feel confident to recoil and go in a whole new direction. Homelessness, a soul sickness affects us all. Let's see what the experts say.
Thank you so much for so beautifully sharing so much of your humanity.
As a neuro, I like Johann Hari, have read much of his work, and I think that it's well-written and insightful. I don't, however, think it has much application for severely depressed Westerners. I commend him for acknowledging that and admitting he has no easy individualistic solutions for depression. His work is entertaining, informative and enjoyable reading for those of us who aren't in the midst of extreme turmoil. The fault in his work is the failure to understand the complex neurochemistry of various mental conditions and he does not properly distinguish types of depression that have a measurable physical component. Any combat veteran or survivor of violent crime can describe to you the physical condition that followed their trauma. Think of trauma like an impact which creates a bruise for the survivor, like a flu of both mind and body. It's not sadness. It's an inability to taste food, feel emotions, see colors as brightly, etc., as one previously did. In those patients, SSRIs and hormone treatments like testosterone tend to be life-saving. We can measure their condition and progress, and they are often able to transition from the drugs in 6mo as directed. We know trauma changes the brain and disrupts pleasure systems; those systems repair over time with appropriate care, and SSRIs can bridge patients until their bodies heal. You cannot heal if you commit suicide, as so many of our survivors are doing. There is no question that if we could reach and treat them all with SSRIs (and hormones, for those who need it), fewer would die. I fear that books like Hari's prevent or delay these people from getting the medical attention they need. Even if they had a tribe, it would not change their specific internal condition. The problem is when SSRIs are used improperly, for long periods of time in patients like Hari who, according to his story, are not suffering a biological manifestation of trauma. He, like his "rice farmer turned dairy farmer," suffered from what we call 'situational depression.' Certainly, that condition can be extremely painful, but it's less likely to respond to neuropharmacological interventions. I wish he didn't confuse despair with actual biological disease.
Thanks for this nuanced response. The color brightness symptom really struck me, as I have heard friends with depression and PTSD explain their better days simply as "turning up the brightness" on the world. I want to read more about these neurological factors for sure.
I don't agree with your premise that because traumatic events like the ones you describe change the brain chemistry and have real physical effects which I do not dispute but to see anti depressants as the one and only answer or even as such a necessary answer is misplaced.You only have to look at placebo studies to see how powerful the mind is in changing how we experience pain for instance; to not understand that things like community and connection and compassionate listening and other forms of therapeutic intervention which are hardly ever offered to many people with depression and all they given is anti depressants could also be as life saving as you describe anti depressants as being is failing to understand the interaction between environment and our internal physical chemistry.I am well aware of what depression is having suffered from it for many years and it was not anti depressants which got me through it although I know for some they work as a bridge for other things as you say.I think to dismiss Johan's work as entertaining or not sufficient to deal with severe forms of depression is completely misinformed and partial.Also for you to make this distinction between "real biological" depression and despair is also a completely false distinction and reductionist.Also as he says maybe one of the reasons many westerners are suffering from such high rates of depression is due to these unmet needs and lack of connection and meaning and too often anti depressants are given as the panacea without acknowledging how their environment or context plays a part.To make such clear lines as well between those who suffer clear obvious trauma and those who just have depression due to no apparent or obvious trauma is also a huge oversimplification and has caused many people to be stuck in the cycle of shame and depression for years on end.People have killed themselves whilst on anti depressants and many other psychiatric drugs.The biomedical model you offer has its own severe limitations and has done lots of damage and underserved many many people whose basic human needs have been ignored and also a limited understanding of the body mind connection within the environment.I think you are too easily dismissing Johan's work as he is asking for a more nuanced response and not dismissing altogether the role of anti depressants in some cases but also offering so many other modalities which currently are hardly on offer.
Absolutely great! I love the Hari stuff! He does seem to watch too much CNN though... politically he is not informed enough.
Really beautiful exchange. Thanks for the interview.
Rich Roll for president!
This one was killer, 2 titans, hari and roll, killing it in this podcast
If you truly wish to destigmatise addicts, then you should make all drugs legal, regulate them so they are safer, and let adults decide what they want to do. Some people will inevitably kill themselves, but many more will use drugs in the same manor as alcohol and cannabis are used now. I was addicted to strong opioid pain meds for over a decade. I had chronic pain, but also psychological problems that the meds also helped with. At a certain point I was cut off from my medications. Now, I find myself in terrible physical pain everyday, and I'm always in a negative, occasionally suicidal mood. At this point I am well over any withdrawls, but my quality of life has depleted so much, that I often feel it's no longer worth it to keep living. When I was addicted to the pain meds, I was sometimes sleepy, but I was able to go out of my house and do things, I was usually happy, or at least content. I can tell you all, that being an addict was better for my life, than being sober is now! Except I shouldn't say sober, because now I need to drink. I hate alcohol, it is very bad for my health problems, but it is the only thing I have available, that decreases my pain, and makes me feel slightly better in my own skin. Also, I have spent years taking psych meds for my bi polar disorder, and I found that out of the dozens of meds I have taken, most made things worse, or didn't help at all... The opioid did.
I had depression and anxiety for years they tried almost every drug treatments for bipolar, insomnia, pain. I was on 210 pills a month. 5 years ago I quit everything with a dr supervision and I found I’m highly allergic to dairy and it’s in everything. I was addicted to it also.
I’m a normal person now. No more anxiety and mood swings. My husband is happy too
There are some people with their eyes open articulating what the majority of us are feeling. We are interactive creatures, We cannot exist alone. Ubuntu idea - "I am who I am because you are who you are". I am not just this little creature all on my own with abnormal serotonin levels. My disorders arose in a social environment that lacked secure attachment and support to just be me and grow as nature intended it. Is it so hard to see that any effective therapies must involve a wider society? We cannot separate people from the environment. Should we not be studying what our interactive world is like ? Whom am I with you? How do I negotiate my needs and boundaries with you? How do we cooperate and define goals that benefit us all ? How these disorders that we have affect our interpersonal processes? The mind creates the world but first the world creates the mind as The Buddha taught. Being Human is about seeking meaningful attachment to such an extent that it should become a key principle in the way we organise socioeconomically. The idea that depression can just be some isolated individual problem that should be treated in separation to somebody's social environment is laughable. It has only produced psychiatry that sold its soul to the farma industry. They are just drug pushers today. I know how real my antidepressant addiction is. The same may be true about diseases in general. The idea of inter-relational neuro- biology is not new. It simply says that our brain and mental health are profoundly influenced by the network of our relationships on physiological level. We are a tribe and create conditions for one another in the fullest of spectrums. It is time to recognise that this profit driven, shallow and misanthropic joke of a system is not fit for our humanity.
Johann, your talk is great and you adress the "real issues". you need to feel you belong, you need to feal your life has meaning and purpose. society is less and less good at meeting deep emotional needs. You rock, teenage girls have the same anxiety level as a mental patient had in the 1950.
your rat example was also simplistic but very telling, I would guess many people feel like the rats in the box where they drink the water with drugs. the amount of pain and dispair.
We have to wrench the idea of one correct solution for addiction out of the collective consciousness.
I have addictions but can't see myself joining a support group to open myself up to people.
Creat podcast as always, Rich made a great effort to bring it back to something solution based,... but the end of the pod cast felt like it fell off the rails a bit. I was hoping to find more tools to deal with my problems with addiction and depression. I got some, but had to really dig through the dialogue. Not as much practical advice as I was hoping to take away as I deal with my problems. Rich said it best in the end. The struggle is the solution, it is a community that surrounds a shared interest. It's not about arriving at a future place, that the salve to the wound is coming together as a tribe of people who notice when you are gone and value your input and contribution to the group. I was also disappointed that Johann Hari never mentioned his nine points of how to deal with depression. All I got was connection with others and connection with nature.... forgive me if you disagree. I commend both of you for the bravery to bring light into the world. If you read the comments of your fans, we love you.
Amazing interview! Thank you for spreading all the knowledge, lots of which I have thought over the years but wasn't sure if they were false beliefs, now I know the reasoning behind them. .
I drink 100% cause of loneliness!
12:16
I was 10 days at my sisters home and didnt ecen really thought about booze.
Only when I mindlessly watched videos I became more 'reactive'
to my thoughts and instincts.
I think the reason depression is so high is because we all grew up as kids with everyone telling us we would be astronauts and athletes and rockstars and when that doesn’t end up happening people feel worthless. I think society needs to do a much better job on valuing all professions and quit with all the get rich or die trying logic.
This discussion is so punk rock!!
Compassionate
Yay! Yes!! I spoke too soon. Thanks for addressing childhood in this interview. I couldn't agree more with you and use your work to explain why children become addicted to screens--that is where they're getting their needs met.
Great interview
Excellent point. This guy is a thinker!
This conversation is going to bleed into a similar conversation which is this:
“How are humans going to manage to live when they don’t have jobs and are restricted to a Basic Minimum Income?”
Regarding children needing some min supervised play, on a related topic, I have been shocked by the increasing assessment of mainstream kids in playschool and preschool. They are watched intensely and every word and behaviour recorded and analysed . This is because the teachers or minders have to show they are so accountable. Then they can charge more money for their services. It has gone to extremes. (I know it's necessary in some cases)
Anxiety and overwhelming stimulus and expectations are an addicts main trigger. Lost connections and opportunity are compounded 100 fold after being labeled an addict. So many functional alcoholics and pharma addicts...which lead to street drugs when these socio-economic heirarchy is diminished.
The Berlin story would make such a good film!
Amazing podcast , thank you.🙏🇮🇩 (Indonesia)
He and Gabor Maté would make a power team!!
I can already tell you why the spike in depression and anxiety has risen in the past 100 years...its actually a simple answer, but a very very complex explanation....population explosion and exponential innovation. Thats the 2 fundamental, absolute reasons for everything we see and hear around us. It wasnt easy for me to discover this...and its even harder to explain why...but those 2 things alone should give enough insight to even the mildly educated that you should be able to conjure the light bulb on your own. If you want a greater explanation,,, I can provide my research...just ask...and its yours.
EDIT: I just wanted to add one more thing. Why does the world change? Human Proliferation! The more people being born, the more modified societies get. and the more complex the problems become. The continual growth of the human race has been on going for thousands of years...why else do you think problems continue to pile on top of each other? Why is it that new problems that never existed before are being created? And why is it that old problems are becoming more potent? Its blatantly obvious, that the main ingredient is people.
I completely agree! There are no problems that we have that would be solved by ever more humans coming onto this planet, but few people want to talk about the taboo subject of overpopulation.
I’m interested in your research :) Do you have a link to your work?
@@noahbrown4388 You will have to give me a little while to compile everything I have come across within the last 7 years. Ranging from scientific publications, to interviews, news articles, and more. I have a lot of information im trying to parse together and comprehend at the moment, along with trying to more or less be a therapist to some of my family members, but If I actually do find time here and there to provide you with the information I have engaged with over the last 7 years, then I will make damn sure I send you as much as I can. I will warn you though, altering your perspective and TRULY desiring to understand some of these theories, concepts, and ideas, may have a significant effect on your cognition...so please I am honestly begging you....IF EVER you feel like you cant handle what this information is doing to the way you think....I HIGHLY recommend you throw it ALL away and try as hard as you can to convince yourself that there is no reason you need to know any of it. I will contact you soon and update you on my progress regarding the package I intend on sending to you. Have a good day, and thank you for your inquiry.
@@thepooaprinciple5144 Thanks for the warning friend, but I've already taken the red pill, so to speak, over the last few years regarding most of the predicaments we find ourselves in (population, social, environmental, resources, relationships etc) Frankly it has been overwhelming at times and hard to deal with and process and a lonely road also (which I'm sure you understand). But I have to seek the reality of our situation -- there's no putting the toothpaste back in the tube.. while dealing with my own personal problems as well.
Thanks for the reply and any information you relay would be greatly appreciated! Good luck with your family. I wish you well also 🙏🏻
@@noahbrown4388 I appreciate the fuck outta this. Thank you for your passionately articulate response. And as for you being "prepped" so to speak, I surely hope you are, for some of the places that human consciousness can travel are not at all meant for it to stay. But in order to TRULY grasp what this place is that we experience, you must be able to endure it for a prolonged amount of time. I will just emphasize that when traveling through not only time itself, but also into the minds of other people throughout history, its inevitable that when you arrive back to your own "self" there are bound to be bouts of mass confusion. So if you really are ready and prepared to destroy your beliefs in order to inch closer to the truth, then I will make it a priority to keep communication with you. For I myself despite not wanting to burden others....feel a desire to have a partner on this journey, and maybe you might be the first. Time will tell.
@@thepooaprinciple5144 Well now you got me intrigued :) I've spent a lifetime taking in information, from whatever source, and trying to see if it fits reality as I observe it. Though I'm just a layperson, no philosopher. And the more I've whittled it down the bleaker the picture has become. I wouldn't say I have many 'beliefs' at this point, besides that this universe seems to be largely or completely deterministic. I'm open to anyone's perspective or information though.
"For I myself despite not wanting to burden others... feel a desire to have a partner on this journey" Me too, unfortunately it seems almost impossible to find that in the opposite sex.. or most others, for that matter..
Unfortunately, there is still so much of a stigma attached to the "diagnosis," and hence, people not getting help. And also the reason for the despair that contributes to suicide. People are also only getting pills (deluded into the sense they will "cure" the depression) and not going deep to find out what epigenetic, childhood, or ancient wounds they are actually medicating/numbing.
Jordan Peterson encourages people to think about their values. That's one of the reasons he's so popular.
Again, around 1:05:00 Jordan Peterson has a lot of young men as followers for exactly these reasons.
Bloody beautifully inspiring podcast ✌️
Great work but you should keep politics out of the conversation in order to reach a vaster crowd of people 💚👍🏼
Impossible - EVERYTHING is "political" in one form or another. Things and people are rarely black and white btw
I agree, however i agree with his views. I dont mind.
What were the 9 tools to help yourself? I was ready to do a list. I was hoping nutrition would get some air time. Wholefood plant based.
The idea of being controlled at work making you miserable is an old one: Marx was banging on about it 170 years ago.
I love your work Johann x
Enjoyed his TedX Talk.
Please put subtitles in spanish to this , the World needs this information , but México my country Is urge to hear this !!!!!!!!!!!
Much love to Johann Hari❤❤