Reaction, Star Trek: TNG, 3x16, The Offspring, Gallifrey Gals Get Warped! S3Ep16
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- Опубликовано: 23 авг 2024
- Data becomes a proud father when he creates an android using his own neural programming. Keep your comfort Narwhals close by for this Data episode! Hear Katrina predict what she thinks the future has in store for Data! Happy Tuesday everyone!
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PAULA DEMING
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KATRINA ALYSHA
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Intro Song by: Pixel Pig by Di Young • Di Young - Pixel Pig
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"His hands... were moving faster than I could see"
That always gets me. If that isn't love, I don't know what is.
I don't know why, but that line is like the moment in the scene that just triggers me turning into a blubbering mess..lol
And the thing is we've always known how Data is extraordinary, how he moves at superspeed and can fix everything... and he's doing that, all he can, and it's not enough.
This is the line that gets me too.
extremely good acting.
He also loved the Enterprise-E's main computer lockout I guess :P
Data, the emotionless android, has some of the most emotional storylines. This story always makes this older man tear up.
And he always breaks rules.
Like when he visits the girl on the dying planet that he made friends with over the radio.
Brent Spiner really did not like all the sci-fi technobabble, but through Data he was given many opportunities to act his butt off.
Me at the start of this episode: "Get ready to cry, Katrina."
I have a friend who is a 12 year veteran police officer and he has seen the worst parts of humanity. I asked him how he avoids getting jaded and he said he watches Star Trek TNG from time to time. Particularly episodes where Picard’s wisdom are on full display. He said, “Even though it’s a show, the truth of the words help more than religion or alcohol.” Captain Picard inspires my friend and hopefully it inspires you. 🤘
darmok and jalad at tanagra.
does your friend also drink all the tea, early grey, hot - as well.
Picard was probably the first wholly wise and truly inspirational captain for me....but lately, Pike has definitely climbed his way up there as well.
That means Data will have the memory’s of kissing Riker.
Oh crap, you're right
So he shares the same experience as every sentient female in the Alpha Quadrant, along with a couple of extremely adventurous Hortas.
That would have been a funny outtake if after his last line he'd have gone to pretend make out with Riker
Who is to say that wasn't secretly his plan all along?
That puts new context into when in Insurrection Data was checking out cleanly shaved Riker.
Man. Back to back tearjerkers. That’s one of my favorite moments when he describes Data attempting to get ahead of the destabilizations in Lal’s brain. It always makes me cry. Great reaction! (Hungriestclone btw!)
It's a great way to leave a mark as a guest actor. You come in once, and play a character that is basically the obstacle, and then you get to play a scene like that. And he nailed it.
That must have been so rewarding a job.
The showing of Lal feeling. And not understanding is painful.... especially when she hits at her chest because it's such a disturbing sensation to feel the fear of being taken away from people she's come to enjoy being around, and the absolute terror of being taken away from her father, and creator. She is utterly panicy in that very calm and controlled fashion... And it eventually causes her systems to break down, or at least either part of it, or was caused BY the cascade failures.
Data demonstrates that love is also choice and action, not just feeling.
From the original script
Data: "Does that not describe becoming a parent sir?"
Picard: "Fuck. He's right."
"I'll see your 'The Angels Take Manhattan' and raise you a 'The Offspring'."
I see your 'The Offspring' and I raise you 'The End of Time Part 2'.
7:12 The legendary double face palm of Picard's 😂
Regarding the number of takes that would be needed for a scene, there's a reason he's called "Two-Takes Frakes".
I find this episode gets sadder with more viewings. Paula, I really admire your restraint in not spoiling the experience for Katrina, I honestly don't know how you do it! :)
The scene when Adm. Haftel is describing Data's hands moving faster than he could see really impacts the feelings. It's like a well-acted Data scene without Data being onscreen, like the Data in your mind. The actor (Nick Coster) just conveys the emotion of the struggle Data is going through with his words and gestures, perfectly. It's perfect.
I love these kinds of 'un-scenes' -- a character who's invested in what happens tells the tale to an on-stage audience who wasn't there. Shakespeare uses this all the time for intense dramatic effect, and it's brilliantly used here.
I thought the most amazing performance was from the actor that played the Admiral. I went from completing hating him to that amazing performance he gave when he describes Data trying to stay ahead of the cascade failure.
My 6th grade science teacher and I have seen every Star Trek movie on opening night together since 1982. He lost his youngest daughter when she was very young and he was only ever able to watch this episode one time.
It was like Bruce Maddox. It was easy to just go 'machine, come with me' until they get to know the people or SEE them be so.. human. so alive.
it shows why you need to be more than a 3rd-party observer/participant.
he's still the reason she died, fuck the admiral, admire the actor.
Yeah there's no way I could watch this again if I'd lost a kid.
One of the best "Data" episodes ! And it's the first episode directed by Jonathan Frakes !
Yeah...I think there's not a single Frakes episode of anything that I've disliked. They weren't all bangers, but I can't recall a bad one. The guy really is a major piece of the very backbone of Star Trek.
The scene where the admiral describes how Data tried to save Lal - and you can see how much it touched him and how he saw them as fully sentient and sapient people.
"His hands ... were moving faster than I could see - trying to stay ahead of each breakdown. ...He refused to give up. ...He was remarkable. It just wasn't meant to be."
I always cry at that point - it's just such a strong moment. The picture it paints is so immediate and painful.
The scenes with Lal and Data towards the end are also really strong, of course - but somehow in its indirectness, in relating through the experience of the admiral and how it changed him instead of showing it directly, this scene stayed with me the most.
" . . .He refused to give up. . .. . . . . .He was remarkable."
In other words. . . . .He was a FATHER!
Doctor Beverly Crusher: Just help her realize she's not alone. And... be there to nurture her when she needs love and attention.
Lt. Cmdr. Data: I can give her attention, Doctor. But I am incapable of giving her love.
[he leaves sickbay]
Doctor Beverly Crusher: Now, why do I find that so hard to believe?
And, later; "I think it's working perfectly" 🥲
The description by Haftel reinforced that statement
"I have never..."
"... heard a program speak of love?"
"It's a human emotion."
"No, it is a word. What matters is the connection the word implies."
--Neo and Rama-Kandra, _The Matrix Revolutions_
... Yeah, Data loved Lal.
Now I can also add "Because love isn't an emotion... It's a promise."
Everyone should have an emotional support narwhal for episodes like this.
My favorite part was when the admiral described how Data was moving so fast to keep Loll alive that his eyes couldn't keep up with Data's hands.
"I will feel it for both of us" daaaaamn :,(
That's the line that gets me every time.
Katrina speaking of Dr. Crusher and Data at the end makes me think of a future episode that uses one of Gates McFadden's real life talents.
SSHHHHHH!!!!! We do not talk about that ...
@@dragonrune6800 *zips*
@@ninjabluefyre3815 🤣
Oh, THAT episode.
The part where the Admiral Haftel describes Data's effort to save Lal always makes me tear up. The end of the episode is really heartfelt and cements my love for Data. Star Trek TOS has a few heavy episodes that question the sentience of artificial life. You might like the following:
TOS Season 1x7 = What Are Little Girls Made Of? 1966
TOS Season 2x24 = The Ultimate Computer 1968
TOS Season 3x19 = Requiem for Methuselha 1969
Thanks for the reaction, gals!
"CUT POWER.... KEEP THOSE SHIELDS DOWN!!!"
One of the most touching episodes of the entire series. I always get choked up when the admiral comes out and sadly announces the inevitable. I think there may have been discussions about keeping her character on the show or bringing her back at some future point, because she was terrific. The actress formed her own speech patterns, her own mannerisms, even little ways of moving that felt genuine and sell her existence perfectly.
This show has a ton of emotional and family moments from this season onwards that really makes the show connect better then many of the early stories. Once the show starts delving into the connections that make us human things like love, hate, social awkwardness, communication, anger, interspecies conflict and how those are also mysteries as deep and interesting as whatever is in deep space the show just takes off.
Next week we get even more family connections and mysteries. Really huge for the overall series and tons of foreshadowing that is followed up for years.
Spoiler below
...
I did warn you...
...
Spoiler---- Be Warned---
The new Picard show really screwed up in not touching on this story line for the follow up show, considering all of the references to Data and the series itself talks so much about offspring and other Androids, and literally several times talks about how crazy it is that there are more Andriods like data... that I found myself screaming at the screen as to how any fan of TNG could forget about Lal.
Amazing episode
Yeah, I'm sad that Picard didn't bring back or at least reference Lal
A couple of novels mention her...and do sufficient justice in the attempt, I think. But I do agree that there was a huge lost opportunity for Picard. They could've even kept most of the storyline as it was...just have the girl be a new version of Lal with doctored memories, simply for the sake of keeping a secret.
From now on, I'll refer to any deeply emotional episode as an "Under The Narwhal" episode.
I always enjoyed how Star Trek presents multiple different ideas to think about. But allows you to form your own opinion than being told what to think.
Makes for great conversation and idea sharing.
Star Trek is about exploration of the mind as much as exploration of space.
Always heartbreaking no matter how many times you watch, in so many levels. When my mother was dying I too thanked her for my life.
One of my favourite parts of this episode is the Admiral's revelation that he had been wrong. His willingness to admit that Data's love for Lal was remarkable. That scene always gets at least a little tear up from me.
Admiral Haftel always reminds me on Maddox.
This is one of those great unsung episodes of TNG. The part where he talks about Data's hands moving so fast that they couldn't be seen always gets me choked up
To put it another way, Laal's emotions were a symptom of hardware issues. Data just transferred over her software, so there is no chance of the emotions transferring over.
I've been looking forward to this reaction, one of my favorite eps. I react the same way Paula did when Lal is dying. The character makes a big impact in such a short time, the loss is real.
I was home from college, and my father, who had seen an earlier telecast said to me "You have to see this episode". And I have such a great memory of my dad being in love with this episode and the two of us sitting and watching together. I think this episode is as great in it's own as Yesterday's Enterprise. Jonathan Frakes did SUCH a great job directing this, and Hallie Todd gives one of the great guest performances as Lal!
7:20 The rare Picard DOUBLE facepalm
God DAMN I took this show for granted when I was younger. The modern media landscape really throws into sharp relief how special this was.
Such a powerful episode. Sometimes the Captain can start to go wrong but he almost always comes to the best conclusions. I love his little speeches. Star Trek is always breaking boundaries. TNG does great incorporating ideas and concepts into the story in ways that just make it feel natural and smooth, never jarring. Thanks for the reaction and after talk.
7:17 the DOUBLE face palm
And exactly Katrina! Picard is Data's dad in military-explorers-love compassion fashion. And the scene reads exactly like a parent chewing out their kid for an unplanned pregnancy
One of my favorite episodes, hands down. There is soooo much here, parenting, parental rights, the rights of an individual, etc. The end...I will never get over.
This is possibly my favourite episode of the show. There's just so much crammed in there, but it doesn't feel like cheapening any of the ideas. The performances are also outstanding from everyone involved.
I think my favourite part of it is watching how Picard didn't consider Lal to be a child, yet never hesitated when it came to defending Data's right to hold a differing opinion to him. I felt that said more about Picard's integrity as a character than his eventual understanding as to why Data saw her as his child. The fact that he's so happy to throw his own career away before he'd betray his own conscience defines why Jean-Luc Picard is one of the best characters in television.
Is mine tbh it's genius sound track acting script brilliant episode
I bet the facetime with Denise Crosby helped to shock you into not completely breaking down emotionally for this episode!
I’m rewatching Star Trek Voyager at the moment and some of the issues here get addressed again in several episodes that relate to The Doctor and also Seven of Nine. When Data ‘turned her off/put her to sleep/into storage’ for the night it reminded me that the EMH was outraged initially that everyone forgot to turn off his programme but latterly was more outraged when they summarily shut him down.
I'm really enjoying your reactions and discussions of this episode and TNG in general. Paramount should look at this video to see that there is still is a market for this type of storytelling.
Rykers like "jesus why does this keep happening?!"
Now that you mention DS9, are there plans for that one too? And if yes, will you watch chronologically, when the shows were running concurrently (and then the movies too) or show by show?
Here's to hoping they continue get warped with the other shows.
I do believe that is their plan. Whether they start it when they're done with TNG or start DS9 as it begin along side as duringthe original run is the thing. I honestly think that Kat might enjoy it more than Paula.
I hope so too. If Katrina likes TNG season 1 and 2 she will surely like the opening seasons of DS9!
Data doesn't feel, but he is thoughtful.
Fascinating.
Damn! One of the BEST episodes. (and a great example of what is truly lacking in modern Trek & entertainment in general)
If that whole segment of Lal's death (before, during & after) doesn't just rip your heart out & make your eyes moisten? You might be a Soong type Android without an emotion chip!
(Awesome guest star performances! Top notch.)
Modern Trek is just awful over dramatic garbage.
14:09 - HEAR! HEAR! And Hell yeah!
16:13 - Indeed. And there a beautiful continuity detail with Ira Graves, the scientist from the Episode The Schizoid Man who ask Data to call him Grand-Pa: Graves, in the end, also had his core consciousness/Memories downloaded into Data's personal work station and Data commented that, while the sum of his memories were in there, the essence of who Ira was was lost. In a way, it is the same way here with Lal: Her memories are in Data, but her emotions and the essence who she was are no longer there. So in a way, Data knew that it was safe to transfer the memories of his daughter to himself because his Grand-Pa showed it could be safe; Ira's gift to Data)
Another awesome thing about this episode is how it displays the state of human evolution at this stage in time in which the human race has evolved to the point to even be present not only at the discovery but the creation of new universal life across the cosmos.
Such a powerful episode, especially the ending. It's also worth noting, especially watching this episode in this present day and age, how progressive Data was when he said he'd allowed his child to choose their own gender.
The reason Lal could choose a gender is because she initially had none to speak of. She wasn't created male and then decided to be female. That's where this analogy falls apart.
I wasn't born genderless with an option to choose. I was born human male. I will always be human and male and nothing else. No amount of "identifying" as female will ever make me such. It's basic biology. If I refer to my cat as a dog, she is still a cat no matter how much I insist otherwise.
love this episode. the development of Data is such a great ongoing part of the series.
The finest episode in my opinion. *That* scene burrowed down to my core and has made a home there....
Star Trek TNG, rarely disappoints as far as drama used to illuminate our human differences, similarities and prejudices
The Star Trek series were always great at making you laugh and cry in the same episode, just like with MASH! Star Trek has always done culturally relevant stories!
Ashamed that I didn't get the Offspring joke until Paula explained it.
So many great episodes this season.
I'm actually surprised Kat got the joke, given what they've mentioned about their ages. I didn't think the Offspring really lasted in popularity beyond mid-2000s.
Appropriately for this episode, was just listening to my favorite Offspring song "Gone Away", which I don't know the backstory of, but it is heartfelt wail about life changing loss. Not for everyone, buy you know, if you're a fan :)
I always thought the writers missed a huge opportunity - from this episode on, after re-incorporating Lal into his own programming, it would have been a nice touch if Data was able to use contractions from then on.
7:14 - The double facepalm.
That music at the very end before the credits begin- epic with feels.
This episode, we can see Picard learn as well. That he respects Data, has even been his most prominent advocate, but he doesn't always treat him like a living being. He doesn't mean to, but he does. And he grows past it in the end.
By 1990, there had been many science fiction stories in which people had the option of choosing their gender, and even transitioning back and forth into anatomically different bodies to suit their wishes. These stories went back at least to the 1970s. John Varley wrote many, Greg Egan wrote some, and Joanna Russ's work at least strongly implies it -- and of course there's also Le Guin's The Left Hand of Darkness (1969), although in that case the transition was involuntary and cyclical. What was new was putting it on television: SFF readers, a niche market in those days, were (as they still are) eager for things that push the envelope, but television producers and especially advertisers were leery of anything that wouldn't play well in rural Iowa.
0:17 oh there is the strange noise!!!
such profound ideas are explored in star trek which is what made me who i am as a person and whats so sorely lacking in new trek......
First, Tasha Yar (again), then Amy & Rory, and now this one. It's been a real emotional gut-punch of a week on this channel!
I looked it up on IMDB, and yes, she was Lizzie McGuire's mom. I had seen her on other shows before this, and thought she was a teenager when this was made. Nope, she's older than me.
Dont forget about Tales of Ba Sing Se!
Hallie Todd was also in seven episodes of Murder, She Wrote, apparently. I clearly didn't recognise her at the time.
Since you didn't include it in your reaction, I just want to point out that.........
HE'S BITING THAT FEMALE !
the meaning of names, so good:
Data = Facts , Lore = Fiction ,
daughter Lol = Laugh out Loud. JK!
12:22 why is this giving me technology cannibalism vibes - amazing ep&review i loved it
Ah, my fave STNG ep. What a tearfest.
I wish these reactions were more in-depth. But the discussion at the end was great. This is one of my favorite TNG episodes and I just randomly searched to see if anyone reacted to it.
Oh no, this is a rough episode to deal with.
Spat my drink at the Offspring joke. The joke landed... it landed hard.
There's still more! There's still more! There's still more! There's still more! There's still more! There's still more! There's still more! There's still more! There's still more! There's still more!
HI Guys! Just came over from "City on the Edge of Forever." Wanted to see your reaction to this one. Hallie Todd was terrific. I fell in love with her; her portrayal of Lal was adorable, just adorable. Now I gotta blow my nose. This is one of the best TNG episodes. :)
Wow Paula's reactions was so real as #@%$ ....awesome review guys, keep up the good job
Data can experience a sense of 'loss'. He experienced that after Tasha Yarr's death because he can create bonds and his processes establishes expectations, and it gives a 'faulty' sensation when there's suddenly a person no longer there whom he's put priority focus on.
It's as close to feeling loss and grief as is possible without actual emotions.
And with Lal, it's deeper cuz it is his child, he's been beaten over the head repeatedly with the fact that he's created a life and that is precious.
The emotions aren't there, but the core priority to ensure one's offspring's survival seem to be there, even if it's without emotion.
I think the 1st human settlement on what is now American soil was somewhere in Florida and 1512
This was the first Star Trek episode written by René Echevarria. "The Offspring", which initially had the working title "Bloodlines", originated in a spec script written by him. Michael Piller recalled, "'The Offspring' was a great spec script, except it was, at first, barely about our people. It was really about a very brand-new, exciting female android that Data created out of his own image, and it was all about her. And I said, 'That's great. But it can't be about the guest star. It's got to be about one of our people. It's got to be about Data. It's not about Data's child as much as it is about how Data deals with being a parent. Everybody will be able to relate to that and empathize with the problems he has as a parent of a new child. Especially when that child is threatened by all sorts of outside forces.'"
I am not okay (under the narwhal)
What did I watch today? (under the narwhal)
Let's start the show (under the narwhal)
Damn, here we go (under the narwhal) Yeah (narwhal)
And thirty years later, meet Dahj & Soji.
Simply one of the greatest episodes of Star Trek ever...
Just listened to Katrina's comment about waiting for the day. Keep watching.
Too bad it came about in a really shitty movie.
This the hardest episode to watch, it’s so sad and yet it’s so beautiful
8:58 That is just the android bed!
I'm going to ball again. One of my favorite episodes.
If you haven't already, check out the episode "Sanctuary" from DS9. It's one of my favorites growing up in the 90's.
Was thinking about Lal today, saw your reacts on my front page and immediately came to look for this.
Data giving Lal the choice of deciding their own sex + gender identity is kinda the unintended stealth positive commentary on culture.. 30 years into the future.
Pretty sure the writers didn't even give it a huge thought. Like most people back then, they just assumed gender derived from sex and that derived from chromosomes. And the writers were merely addressing the question of the same for androids since they don't have chromosomes. Data himself was made in the image of his parent-creator, whereas Lal was intended to be a fully separate character and personality. Unintended, yet remarkably relevant and positive today.. (Something else that seems to fall out of this, also perhaps subconsciously, is how naturally and logically this proceeds out of Data's inherent innocence with respect to any controversy on such matters. And they *did* cast Leonard Crofoot to play Lal's androgynous form and Hallie Todd as the final form, rather than just having one portray both.)
@@NecessaryTruths Linguistically, people have seemingly almost always commandeered existing terms to describe variations on a concept, so often that after a while, we consistently have fairly non-interchangeable meanings, sometimes mutually exclusive meanings, all going under the same term.
Stop your nonsense @@gluuuuue
Good episode and in a way a good ending since Data has no emotions at least he has all her experiences and memories
0:24 It's the echo from Paula's Doctor Who rant...
Sorry Paula...
The narwhal over the face was my favorite part of the previous reaction.
Can't you guys find a happy show to watch?
I watched this episode for the first time last night and wept when Lol died. And I'm over 50!
That's Rene Echeveria debut episode as writer. One of the best of the entire show
The feeling of love is epiphenomenon. Love itself is action and being. Data loves.
Yeah, looking over the remaining episodes of the season, I think there's only one that I wouldn't rate as "very good" or better, it's merely "good".
I must watch your reaction yearly to this episode its a incredible episode on so many levels also felt like a stage play the acting was Shakespearian
As a child this was my favourite episode... adult me got diagnosed as autistic and knows it's because I vibed with the androids.
There are a lot of weird legal precedents set in Trek that I think the writers didn't fully grasp the implications of. In this episode, they basically established that a superior officer in Starfleet can take your child if they think they can use them for scientific research. Androids were given the same rights as everyone else in "Measure of a Man" so the distinction between androids and organics isn't legally relevant.
To be fair, they never had a trial. That's why Picard said he would take it all the way to Starfleet if the Admiral forcibly removed Lal. There's a high chance that had it gone to court, the Admiral would have been found guilty of committing a serious crime (kidnapping, maybe?) and been dishonourably discharged for it.
@@Helbore That's true, although the implication definitely seems to be that the Admiral has the legal right based on bits of dialogue like "you know Starfleet's policy on research".
@@FortoFight I guess that would have formed a part of the defence in any trial that occurred - is this research or procreation? The ruling in The Measure of a Man would imply that rules on research cannot trump individual rights, otherwise Maddox could have used that same reasoning.
I'd say its similar to the Admiral claiming that he was Starfleet. He isn't, no matter how much he might try to make such a claim. He was overstepping his authority quite blatantly with that line and I think it underlined how unfairly he was throwing his weight around.
One of the best STNG ever, makes me cry everytime
I'm always surprised at the people who don't like this episode. It's one of my favorites!
I think for Data, feelings per se are more a hardware problem than a software problem. He has her memories. I like the idea that what is a life form and what is a parent what is gender - big questions.
saw you uploaded this one and it was insta-watch !
Nana did get a job she played Kira on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine