Sonic Prime; Nobody Writes Shadow Correctly | Full Analysis; The Yoke's on You
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- Shadow is one of the most popular characters in the entire franchise, recently, for whatever reason, every writer who has ever made an attempt to write for him has completely failed at delivering the Shadow that we all know and love. Is it Sega's fault, or is it truly just bad writing? Shadow's character is extremely obvious and everything you need to know is literally in an arm's reach, yet... still constant failures?
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at least shadow found that damn 4th chaos emerald in this episode
I love how the whole fight could be avoided by simply saying: "Hey, Eggman was the one who baited me into hitting him and that energy blast wasn't from either of us. Also, my friends are in danger of dying if I'm not there to help them soon so I gtg."
Yesss, so true. That's my entire point. Sonic doesn't have any actual reason to not just tell him these things, and he doesn't act that way when talking with literally any other character, even the Chaos Council.
@@kotytangI guess Shadow didn't feel like talking to Shadow or thought that it wouldn't work due to Shadow attacking him out of NOWHERE for, from Sonic's perspective, seemingly NO REASON! I mean I certainly wouldn't want to talk to someone who tried to pick a fight with me out of the blue, and that's the impression Shadow gave me, and possibly Sonic, too. Either that or he was focused purely on getting rid of Shadow and out of there as soon as possible and not necessarily defusing the situation due to being on a time limit with his friends possibly being in danger, and wasn't completely thinking straight because of that. Example: when he got distracted by an explosion that happened where his friends were, allowing Shadow to punch him in the face.
@@fnw21gamer73 That’s the initial issue is that Shadow attacks him out of nowhere. That bit is obviously unreasonable on Shadow’s part.
The fight only continues because Sonic would rather keep the fight going than tell Shadow even an ounce of information. Sonic isn’t worried about his friends in that moment, if he was he’d tell Shadow to follow him, or just tell him Eggman is attacking. It’s literally one string of dialogue that he’s keeping from Shadow. Sonic is just being petty at that point, Shadow even stops fighting him to ask him for clarification. Sonic snaps back to reality when the explosion happens.
How to characterize shadow.
Shadow is a complex character, with equally complex morals. With little patience for ignorance, he works really well when he knows something everyone does not. That's why he fits in with back room dealing and intelligence office like scenarios. He knows the ins and outs of any organization's dark side... and he does not like it.
That's a pretty good depiction of Shadow.
First three episodes I was both excited, and anxious.
But between episodes 4 through 8 I was hooked!
The dimension hopping thing is a lot of fun, it gives both the writers, actresses and actors a chance to try out different parts, to see what works, and what doesn't work.
As for Shadow the Hedgehog?
I like how Shadow cares about the world, and to some degree understandable of why he fought Sonic two times.
But because of his caring neutral nature in this series so far, I would like him to try and join Sonic on helping him and his friends defeat, the Chaos Council, and try to bring the world back. As to oppose to him always fighting Sonic, as that would bore me to no end.
I agree, although the first episode was all I needed. I did start losing interest at around episode 6 though, but the ending of 8 brought me back in.
I don't think the fight is understandable, as Shadow has no reason to believe Sonic did anything wrong at all, the second fight was more understandable as he witnessed Sonic actually split the dimensions.
I wouldn't say Shadow is completely caring just yet, I don't think we have a full grasp on his character until we can see him actually interact with the world. We've so far only received a few glimpses of him. I don't really like how angry and ready to smack Sonic around he is all the time, Shadow is much more reasonable than that. I too want Shadow to have a much more prominent role going forward, but it's also likely he'll just be hovering through the space between.
@@kotytang It's kinda like with that MLP G5 series, they need more time, and episodes to flush out the characters. Thankfully, this series is miles better than MLP G5.
To this point they're fighting for fanservice
This isn’t to say that Sonic Prime’s characterization of Shadow is completely accurate. However, the whole situation of him fighting Sonic, without telling Sonic why, reminds me a bit of another moment in Sonic
media.
Specifically, the episode “Shadow the Assassin” in the Sonic X anime. In this episode, Shadow attempts to kill Cosmo, as he knows that she is a Metarex spy, but he initially refuses to tell Sonic and friends why he is trying to kill Cosmo. So the other characters, except for Rouge, spend most of the episode believing that Shadow is either brainwashed or just blindly following orders from some else.
In short, while Shadow’s refusal to communicate with Sonic, in Sonic Prime isn’t the most logical choice, imho the situation reminded me a bit of Sonic X.
I would classify both of these instances with Shadow in Sonic Prime and Sonic X as nonsense, as both are just forced conflict. There's no genuine reason for Shadow to attack somebody and not say why. The only reason I can think of is the writers want to pretend there's a mystery, but it just results in everybody being like "this guy's an asshole" or "My mans has lost his mind clearly" because there's no actual story you can make out of that without outright saying that's going on.
It doesn’t matter
Sonic x shadow is bad too
So what?
That’s not an excuse for prime shadow being the way he is (still better than Boom)
@@shardsoftime0952. Your right? What was Shadow thinking? Sonic NEVER does Anything WRONG, he's the HERO! Should've died in Sonic adventure 2. What you think?
@@kotytang I watched the Japanese version of that episode a couple days ago, and I was pleasantly surprised by what I saw.
Shadow explains to Cosmo that he didn't want to tell her anything because it would hurt her; X Shadow is still a bit of a Hiei character in the sub, but it feels like his motivations are better explained.
@@hihi-nm3uy “I didn’t want to tell Cosmo because it would hurt her.” So he just tries to kill her instead….? I mean that is actually 100x worse than what his English reasoning is.
I... really don't think Shadow lives in Green Hill... I think he's just quite literally looking for an emerald... I also think the emeralds not being too far away from each other is quite literally for the sake of convenience...
Now- honestly, Prime! Shadow is a lot more tame and calculated than most other versions of Shadow we've gotten thus far. I'd say he's a continuation of the growth he's experienced in 06 (as far as what we've seen of him in Prime).
Also, his immediate assumption of Sonic being the root of all "world shaking" events is pretty accurate. Literally 9 times out of 10 something getting fucked up is because of Sonic in some way- whether it be the Earth being shattered into pieces, unleashing an angry water god on an unsuspecting city full of people, screwing with the inhabitability of a nano planet, screwing with ancient technology and releasing a black hole onto the Earth, destroying an alien trafficking ring and unleashing a black hole that is now slightly farther away from the Earth but still close enough to do irreparable damage, being the sole reason for so many people's imposter syndrome, etc. So I don't find it out of character for Shadow to kick Sonic's ass first and ask questions later, that's typically their thing, but I'd be concerned if he was like that with anyone else though. What was ACTUALLY concerning was Sonic's unwillingness to divulge important information to an ally- Shadow and Sonic have done this dance countless times, you'd think that by now Sonic would understand that Shadow always helps out in the end no matter what (when he's relevant in the narrative).
Side Note: Shadow is a soft-spoken character. I personally feel that David Humphrey portrayed this the best with his delicate balance of clarity and hollowness.
I understand that the goal is to show Shadow is looking for Emeralds. The idea of "how convenient that they're all just right here in green hill, and in rocks for some reason!" is lazy writing. It also leads to question what Shadow could possibly even need all seven Chaos Emeralds for at all.
Calling out lazy writing is kind of my thing.
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I don't agree that Shadow is taking after his 06 persona. From what I've seen this is a mostly new mellowed out take on Shadow, however they kept his persistent anger. I don't think there's nearly enough to make a claim on what Shadow's personality is yet.
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It's not an accurate assumption to blame Sonic, and no, none of those events you just listed are because of Sonic they're literally all because of Eggman. Sonic is always seen trying to stop these events, he doesn't jumpstart the events. Nobody sees a serious danger and is like "Dang Sonic must be involved in this." literally every single character is like "What's eggman up to now" Even Shadow takes this stance. Prime is the first time anybody has blamed Sonic for a catastrophe. Sonic is stopping those problems, not causing those problems.
As I pointed out in the video Sonic and Shadow never have a valid reason to fight, and neither are even trying to actually cause serious harm to the other. It's just the status quo that they have to fight.
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I agree David Humphrey has the ideal cadence. I just think Jason Griffith makes him sound cool.
@@kotytang
Agree to disagree, you've given me some things to think a little deeper about though. I appreciate it
This is the best shadow has been in many Years not an edge Lord Trying to do the right thing Has a reason to be mad at sonic
It definitely looks like he's going to be written differently, but we've only seen a few interactions with him so far. I think we should wait until Shadow takes on a larger role---if at all, and judge based on then.
True but still kinda bad
@@shardsoftime0952. Have you forgotten about This:m.ruclips.net/video/0qIjeYuCSkI/видео.html
@@erikbihari3625 that’s just as bad lol
@@shardsoftime0952. What do you want from sega?
Besides making shadow be an unreasonable jerk i think another problem is he's always only used for conflict and nothing else i feel like we keep getting these stupid fights because sega has never tried to use shadow in a casual setting man has no hobbies no friendships and nothing to live for except for the next big bad fight or clocking sonic i'm not saying you have to make shadow all buddy buddy but like let this man do more than fight and brood
I agree, I think that Sega purposely pushes for Shadow to be cast aside, essentially making every writer not want to write for him because you can't make a compelling story with the way they are trying to get his character written.
I just find it strange that Shadow isn't quite displaying that in Episode 2, so we'll see how he starts acting as the show goes on, especially after episode 8. I already constantly question these mandates, and Prime isn't making that easier. Sometimes it feels possible that most of the writers Sega hires don't know how to make a complex or involving story with Shadow, so they just agree it's best to write him off and just use him as fan service. I think that the Third Sonic Movie might actually be able to shake how Sega views Shadow.
I always thought it was petty that Shadow started a fight with Sonic over what was, at worst, a minor inconvenience. If this were Sonic Boom, I might buy it, but it just doesn’t work here.
That's because he exists without establishment and are left to assume things.
A theory could be that Sonic has a habit of messing shit up and that pisses him off.
I wouldn't say he's written wrong I think the problem is a lack of establishment of the character. If you look at the context of the scenes the way he acts when he sees the explosion conveys annoyance, implying that Sonic has done this before. Is it better that how he was in Sa2 and Heroes? No, but at least he isn't saying damn or calling Sonic weak and pathetic for having friends....or try to kill him for his mediocre shelf work
There is no implication that Sonic has caused “world shaking” events in the past. To even say that would be confirmation bias brought into your mind because Shadow immediately thought Sonic did it, so it’s an auto rationalization. There’s no way Shadow would attribute the explosion to Sonic logically, unless he directly saw Sonic cause the explosion.
I’m more than certain that any other character who witnessed an explosion like that would immediately guess it was Dr. Eggman, because why would Sonic ever do that?
Shadow has always been portrayed as this “Dark and Brooding Edge Lord”. In SA2, he was looking to avenge Maria’s death and came to terms with it. Sacrificed himself for the greater good and for what Maria wanted.
Shadow the hedgehog is back! Woo! Now he’s part of his own game and it’s EDGY! Turns out he’s part of this whole alien race and is TECHNICALLY the son of the great BLACK DOOM (totally doesn’t sound racist or anything). Goes super and beats the crap out of his dad. Also this line “Where’s the Damn 4th Chaos Emerald”.
My point is that The SA2 Shadow was a hedgehog just trying to fulfill what his best friend asked for. Which is also why he’s a loner. But you can’t blame the Show’s Directors for following what Sega is trying to make Shadow.
There making him a dark and brooding edge lord. But prime does it…different. It kinda follows the trend of him being a loner and is seeking out a Chaos Emerald PROBABLY so he can do Chaos Control (which proved to be beneficial when fighting Sonic). Though making Sonic and Shadow compete all the time is kinda like the IDW comics; Where Sonic and Shadow compete and fight over anything.
And Shadow being Angry with Sonic after shattering the Original Green Hills is understandable. But seeing Shadow help Sonic is something we’ve seen before, but it’s only been for his own purposes, take Sonic Forces (Bad Example I know). He tells the rest of the cast about Infinite’s abilities and how they work. This (Somehow) helped the resistance beat Infinite.
So is this the same kind of Written Shadow. Well…it’s kinda hard to say. Shadow got roughly 4 Minutes of Screen Time throughout 8 (22 Minute) Episodes. I have a feeling that we’ll see how the Directors follow Shadow’s Character and if they change him.
Thank you for the long thought out comment!
Dark brooding edgelord? Accurate, but not accurate to what he is today; Sociopath, egotistical, and cynical.
However your view of Shadow is misguided and your takes on Shadow's stories in the games are incorrect, and is exactly the same take of everybody who sees Shadow for the first time; just thinking he’s a trashy, rude, ignorant person-without actually knowing Shadow’s story, you’ll get confused here’s why.
SA2 Shadow was reprogrammed by Dr. Gerald Robotnik to believe that humanity needed to be destroyed in order to get revenge for them killing Maria. It wasn’t until Shadow truly remembered Maria that he had the realization that he isn’t supposed to destroy the human race, but rather, help them thrive. Shadow was never meant to be evil, he was reprogrammed to do so, he didn’t just want revenge for Maria, he even cries when he realizes that he (and especially Maria) never wanted to hurt anybody the way he was.
Shadow the Hedgehog the video game, origins of his existence aside, Shadow had completely lost his memory and everything that took place in SA2, however as revealed in Sonic Heroes he does still have glimpses of his past, and remnants of who he once was that influence the positive choices he ends up making.
In his own game, Shadow battles with his lost memory, and his own creation, but once again- remembering Maria, and who she was to him, manages to reset Shadow’s entire belief system and he once again believes that humanity must be protected. He doesn’t “just go super and beats the crap out of his dad”
Being one of the few, if not the only morally gray character in all of Sonic. Shadow is the most realistic and complex character in the entire franchise. Having the ability to flip alliances based on his own moral obligations at the drop of a dime, yet still focus on doing what is overall the right thing to do. Shadow has no greed or envy that can tempt him one way or another. Shadow is entirely his own force, and an entire franchise could be made of him with how complex he is. And that’s just a regular anti-hero character in a story. Because it’s a Sonic story, Shadow appears as such a great piece of writing, that simply cannot be matched by anybody else in the cast. Which, I believe, is very much the reason Sega want to dumb him down so severely. Shadow was capable of, and has proven to, over-shadow Sonic himself. He has the layered past and believable motivations to back up an extremely well rounded character, one that is above the bar for just about any other Sonic character.
No I can’t blame the directors for making Shadow how he is, I blame Sega. But also I’m questioning if Sega even forces people to write him so incorrectly, or if it’s just that nobody really understands him, Sega included. Im sure he’s restricted in specific ways, yet it’s always unclear how exactly he’s restricted, the best we get is “no jokes” in reference to Sonic Boom, because Sonic Boom was literally a joke show trying to put Shadow in, which actually led to them emulating Shadow the exact way he’s shown everywhere else. Shadow was already a caricature of himself, and ironically Sonic Boom proved that.
Shadow doesn’t need chaos control to fight Sonic, and he didn’t even know Sonic was up to anything while he was searching for it, he was literally just looking for it in the show.
Shadow being angry at Sonic isn’t understandable, Shadow of all people knows that Sonic is purely good, and Eggman is the one who causes horrific disasters constantly, having worked with both of them repeatedly, he should and WOULD know what both are about, Sonic even tries to tell him Eggman is the bad guy, and Shadow would rather just beat up Sonic instead, very unreasonable. Yet Shadow is definitively one of the most intelligent and logical characters in the entire franchise- he would know better.
As I said in the video, I agree, I don’t think we’ve had enough time with Shadow just yet.
Shadow and Sonic might be driven emotionally, but unlike latter former never let it override his actions or resolve. Why did eggman get the prism at all here again?
Does anyone remember this:m.ruclips.net/video/0qIjeYuCSkI/видео.html
@@erikbihari3625 That part in Sonic X was written terribly. The entire point was to make Shadow seem evil, narratively it’s a poorly planned out lie to the audience.
@@kotytang. If you we're in shadow's position what would you've done? If you tell them, not only alert the metarex probably causing their plans to be expedited in progress,but your friends be equally determined to seal their own fate by protecting her(in the japanese version knuckles wanted to free her from the but just like everyone else),she'll be a liability given unkowing spying,and you'll be a bad guy iether way. Less risky and have you heard of tragic heroes?
3:24 to be fair they do imply that sonic thinks that shadow is a stereotypical edgelord so maybe he thought that shadow would ruin it somehow like he would show up and try to fight sonic or try to “prove he’s better by attacking eggman” only to get in the way
Shadow asked Sonic what was happening the entire fight, even if that was the case; you’d figure Sonic would realize “Oh this entire time Shadow has said literally nothing except ‘What is going on’. I should probably stop acting like a dick and just answer him.”
7:39 explanation, we don't see alternate versions of Sonic because he has energy from the paradox prism. I assume this means that he is all versions of himself, in a paradox, hence why his tech changes for every world.
As for Shadow, we don't see him because he is trapped in between realities. We saw him try to use chaos control, that may have something to do with it.
Meanwhile everyone else was kinda just there
Yes, this was an episode by episode breakdown. In this episode we just see Shadow unaffected by the Prism, so I wouldn’t have seen that far yet.
My assumption on Sonic is that he simply doesn’t exist in any dimension, seeing as how nobody knows him.
I prefer David as a voice and mid range pitch. Everybody else just sound like they are whispering or cliched evil rival with Shadow. Like Bakura from the first series of Yugioh. It matches too much with the mishandled direction he's been in for over a decade now as broody and angry.
Also I think that thing that Shadow saw shook the world was actually him seeing the future before it actually happened.
Shadow finding a chaos emerald in a rock is like a beat 'em up character finding chicken in a mailbox. It is quite funny.
I don't get the whole Sonic grabbing rings thing either. Especially since it just kinda disappears afterwards.
David Humphrey is the goal when voicing Shadow, giving him both personality and the correct level of darkness, without going overboard.
I personally like Jason Griffith as I think his range with Shadow even with how deep he voices him is impressive, and he always managed to give Shadow a ton of character. He really impressed me with him shouting things in Sonic and The Black Knight without breaking out of his Shadow voice. I don’t think he only has one flat tone while voicing him, Jason definitely gave Shadow a spectrum of pitches and emotions.
I think Kirk Thornton fits to a T the modern Shadow, the most generic deep monotone voice you could possibly imagine. And Kirk has a good range himself, his Shadow is not good at all.
I don’t know if Shadow saw the future, hopefully episode 9 and onward will clear up Shadow’s time in the other dimensions, and whatever the space between that he is floating around is.
1:19 I will agree with you that it is incredibly stupid that shadow thinks this is Sonic's doing.
7:32 Probably because he used Chaos Control during the blast. Sonic is also probably different cuz hes the one that actually shattered the Prism.
Word, this was an episode by episode breakdown, but I appreciate the interaction.
@@kotytang ohhh sorry I didn't get that 😅 I'm dumb sorry
Uh, I think youtube deleted my comment here because I wrote a link on it.
What a shame...
I'll try to summarize what I said before: once again I agree with everything you pointed out about how Shadow is written in Prime. The fault is in the Sega mandates AGAIN. An article about how "Including Shadow was a challenge" basically confirms it (only if it's true, you can't really trust the internet anyways...). Shadow isn't allowed to be a 3 dimensional character (in a personality sense), he can only be edgy and angry. No expressing joy or contentment, much less agree with Sonic on anything, not even one single thing.
I'd like to know your opinions and expectations on how he'll be handled in the third Sonic movie, considering how the writing was in the previous two. We can't hope for much, but the movies have surprisingly done stuff against certain mandates (like giving Sonic a backstory and a parental figure). What would you do if you were given the opportunity of writing Shadow in the film?
My personal problem with mandates is that I don’t think they’re as strict as Ian Flynn claims they are, I think Ian often uses the excuse as a crutch for his own shortcomings, personally. I’ve seen him directly contradict the mandates that he says multiple times. I don’t dislike Ian Flynn, he has solid ideas. He’s just not very good at executing these ideas. I previously tried taking a look at his IDW series on my channel but only got through VOL 1. With IDW having a very high potential of now becoming canon, I have more inspiration to pick that back up and really see how his writing improved-or worsened over the years. It’s the only piece of current Sonic Media I don’t keep up with.
The Sonic Movies thankfully don’t have the mandate issue as many other Sonic writers have or “have”. I don’t doubt that Shadow is extremely stunted in his writing, it’s one of the only mandates that I CAN believe Sega expects the writers to adhere to, due to the consistency that Shadow is written as he is now. I don’t understand why it’s so far one of the only things that Sega so forcefully pushes upon its writers. Considering it’s one of the largest topics of backlash the franchise gets whenever Shadow is seen, yet for some reason nobody at Sega addresses that.
Whether Shadow is actually written like this because everybody(including Sega) thinks that Shadow’s actual personality is as he was in SA2, where he actually was pretty pretentious at times for a reason, is another topic entirely and goes into how people just don’t understand Shadow’s character.
Since the Sonic Movies are so free in what they can do they are unique. I actually really enjoy the Sonic Movies, they can be cringey at times, and the human plotlines are definitely not implemented very well. But when it comes to Sonic, his friends, Eggman, and the world building, they definitely display a level of talent that the Sonic Franchise has not been able to witness due to Sega’s choice of writers.
I think Paramount’s interpretation of Shadow will be one of the most respected and applauded versions of Shadow that we’ve ever seen, possibly even surpassing 06’s interpretation of him. The team at Paramount have shown an incredible love and respect for the franchise so far. The movies are fantastically written and well made.
I even believe that the interpretation that they bring to Shadow will actually convince Sega to remove this veil off of Shadow’s character and open up the avenues for him to be written properly. I don’t have any doubt that this will be one of the most beloved pieces of Sonic media out there. I have high expectations for it, so it will definitely be pretty wack if they don’t go all out on this film. My only concern is that Sonic is very young in this, and I think it’s way too early to even be presenting Shadow. I think they should have gone with Metal Sonic and Amy first. Although they’ll probably bring Amy in during the movie, as well as make Metal Sonic the surprise villain that Sonic and Shadow will have to team up and defeat, I don’t really see them bringing in the Biolizard, I don’t know how SCI-FI they’re willing to get with it.
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If I were to write Shadow in the film, I would closely follow his lore. They've already set up G.U.N. in the movie, so we have an entire supply of plot threads we can explore. I think that Maria and Gerald are an absolute must, you can’t have Shadow without these two as they’re the catalyst of what makes him who he is. I’d stick with and expand on how Adventure 2 wrote Shadow, keeping in G.U.N. Murdering Maria. (although removing the bit where everybody thinks Shadow looks like Sonic, and the part where they blow up the moon) Sonic is not experienced in combat at all, the closest thing he had to an actual fight was Knuckles. The problem I have with the Sonic Movies is that, while I think they’re well written, it’s not how I would write a Sonic story, I don’t like Tom and his wife as characters, nor anybody related to them, so I don’t have any plot threads for them to even go with.
I think the best way to write this would be to have G.U.N. train Sonic and Knuckles to fight Shadow using the research and information that they already have on him, allowing Knuckles and Sonic to gain some kind of leg in the fight and learn how to use their powers, and hopefully defeat Shadow. I would probably have Eggman tell Shadow about the power of the Chaos Emeralds that he experienced first-hand and how G.U.N. Also screwed him over, as well as have the two find common ground in both having a relation to Gerald and Maria Robotnik. Shadow’s goal in the movie would be to steal the Master Emerald, as well as the Chaos Emeralds inside, realizing that the emeralds enhance the strange ability that Sonic and Knuckles have-and by extension him. I think a good plot point for the movie would be for Shadow to realize that G.U.N. aren’t the bad guys-at least not the way he saw them as, and that Eggman was actually trying to abuse the Emeralds, successfully unleashing some sort of giant creation that Shadow and Sonic have to go super to fight.
@@kotytang I which I could pin a heart on your comment 😄
You explained so many things perfectly. I've heard that kind of stuff about Ian Flynn too, but we can never be sure what is causing his writing to worsen little by little. I'd bet on pride, since he's been getting more praise ever since de IDW comics started, but I have no basis on this so it should not be taken seriously.
The implementation of humans in the Sonic movies is something we can't avoid. It's a half live-action film from Hollywood, it's tradition for them to put real people and boring subplots. Just look at every single remake of beloved classics that mixes cartoons with real life (Garfield, Chipmunks, Smurfs). When it makes money, Hollywood will make it a trend. It's like a sacrifice we must accept in exchange for the actual good stuff. Especially in the second movie, the plot about the main three characters was good.
On the concern of Sonic being young, I guess one good thing can come out of it: instead of only Shadow growing up emotionally (like in SA2), the third film could have both of them learning and coming to terms with their grief at the same time. It opens more possibilities for emotional scenes. I predict that Sonic's feelings of loss and love for Longclaw will be compared to Shadow's for Maria. The two of them finding a common ground is something that has never happened before in the games, and I really want Shadow to see Sonic as his equal like he used to (instead of the superiority complex of recent portrayals). I am excited to see a character like Shadow meeting and interacting with a younger and more naive Sonic, instead of a static and already "adult" one like in the game. That's a major contrast, and contrasting personalities can make interactions interesting.
One thing that worries me a lot is if Maria will be implemented at all. Three things about her story make me think the censors won't allow it in a "kids" film:
1. She's a child that dies.
2. She's killed by a firearm.
3. and by a government soldier.
These three things wouldn't go past easily for a movie marketed for kids. Of course death can be represented, but under those circumstances, combined no less, is another story.
@@100lovenana On Ian's own website he does like to boast about how he's the most "prolific Sonic Writer" as well as him being the "creator" of the Encylo-speed-ia. And finally being able to work on a Sonic game himself. His ego is definitely getting higher than it ever was, sure good on him, but I think he purposely ignores his flaws, and his writing for Sonic often fell into extreme Fan-fiction during the Archie-Era. I don't find a negative in him being mandated for IDW, because Archie was never something I enjoyed, and his fan-fictiony ideas still find their way into IDW anyway.
If they were going to go with the Human story I just wish they would've just went with GUN and be done with it, but it is Hollywood so that is true. As long as what I actually want to see gets the majority focus, then whatever.
Those concepts for Shadow and Sonic's relationship are excellent I love those ideas, exploring a way to make Sonic more mature, but also being able to deal with somebody who has also had their entire life ripped from them, we saw this with Knuckles, but not on the scale of Shadow who instead of focusing on honor, Shadow's drive for revenge plays a major factor. Sonic not being able to joke his way out of a fight or anything with Shadow is something that I'm wanting to see. I really hope they go with a serious no nonsense Shadow for the beginning of his story.
I think they won't have a problem with implementing Maria, the only issue is that they can't directly show what exactly killed her, but they can absolutely imply that G.U.N. are responsible for her death. There are plenty of movies for children where a character is killed off screen, while they don't say exactly what manner of death they had, it does paint a good enough picture that you can get the idea. Even in the first movie it's heavily implied that the Echidna killed Longclaw. As for Maria being a Child, it's possible they may have to make her a bit older, so around her teenage years 16-18. But it's also possible that since the death won't be directly shown they can get away with her being so young.
7:41 yes It is a male Hedgehog thing
Shadow is my favorite character
Ditto
Shadow and Knuckles are my favorites.
@@kotytang same
@@LannyLeArtist. What about Amy? I suggest checking out-:"Amy Rose is a strong female character"by taro marshmellow. I promise you won't regret it!
shadow being angry at sonic and them fighting is justified. wow you are just full of bad takes huh
Somebody didn’t watch the video. Lol
Opinion on shadow in sonic x JP
(Jp sub)
I don't have enough memory on Sonic X to give a full opinion on Shadow from Sonic X. I do plan to go over the anime eventually though.
@@kotytang ok
It kinda pisses me off when people talk about Shadow(s) voice, they never ever talk about the best Shadow voice ruclips.net/video/LemFh-Sh5mM/видео.html
Well, I’m not Japanese so I don’t listen to Sonic in Japanese. I also think that besides Sonic and Eggman, the Japanese cast all sound like generic anime voices you’d hear anywhere else, Shadow included. Not bad actors, but they don’t try to sound unique.
I dont understand a single thing with their voices, but the Way they Sound i do like, to be honest i do perfer these voices over the english voice cast. I really liked the Adventure cast but when we Got to 4kids in 2003 … Not a fan at all, Sonic speaks the same (Every time he says OH NO, it in the same Way exampel) Tails sounds like he is going to die, Amy has an terrible voice, she sounds like an Extreme Drama Queen, and it sucks IMO Vector sounds like an joke but his JP voice sounded freaking awesome, Charmy sounds like a voice from a bad anime dub, Same with the Babylon rouges, Silver … Silver kinda sucks in both ways. Shadow also, he sounds so Dark & edgy where in his JP voice he sounds more Calm like Shadow should be. Now not every voice is bad, As exampels i thought Cream & Rouge where fine, and i love Mike pollick as Eggman, it my favirote voice as the Big Egg. Now most of these voices did improve, And i do agree with that, Jason’s Sonic actually sounds good for once IMO. But most of the voices i just talked about have the same problems. The 2010 cast where fine, Sonic & Tails where good IMO, and Im happy that Mike pollick came back, but the others where … EH to me, even in Frontiers where they “Improved” the voices (I dislike the voice direction in Frontiers). The Prime cast was decent, The only one i did not like was Knuckles, a super deep voice does not fits for Knuckles characther IMO. So i perfer the JP cast, everytime i have the choice i Will always switch to the JP Cast, Oh and i dont Watch anime, i have watched extremly few anime so i dont know how a “Generic” japanease voice sounds like, but you know every person has their opinion
Also i dont understand a shit What they are saying in japanease, but i like the voices. I just needed to clarify that I cant understand japanease
ian sounds like he should voice act knuckles (no offense)
No offense taken, but also I disagree. I don't think Ian's voice fits Knuckles.
If I could dislike twice I would. But unfortunately I can't.
First off Shadow warped to cover more distance faster obviously.
Second you just assumed that shadow made his assumption of sonic causing the destruction based off of nothing when literally he saw sonic running around in the sphere he was trapped in.
It's like you didn't even pay attention to the show and was dead set on sh#tting on the shadow's part.
I’ll leave a dislike for you, lmao.
Shadow covering more ground… to do what exactly? What’s he doing there? Is he just looking for chaos emeralds, is that what Shadow does now? Why are all the emerald in green hill…? Why is Shadow there? Saying “he’s covering more ground” answers nothing, covering more ground for what?
Shadow didn’t specifically see sonic, Shadow saw a structure with a circle object spinning around. He assumed that it was Sonic, which again; why would he assume that Sonic did anything wrong, or that the object was even Sonic?
@@kotytang I saw sonic, He clearly saw sonic running around in ball floating in void, petty ahh. Why else would he assume it's sonic? Like It was clearly sonic. He then pursued Sonic because of that reason. You rlly gotta pay attention to the show before you start thrashing on it an end up looking like a moron I'm the process.
"What is he doing there exactly?" Now I know you didn't pay attention to the show. Shadow was looking for emeralds was that not clear enough? My dude broke multiple boulders clearly looking for the green chaos emerald. When I said shadow was "covering more ground I mean he was COVERING MORE GROUND quicker. Is that not what you do when warping to another destination It's not that hard too understand.
You're asking questions but you don't actually want the answers too them.
@@supershonengokusan6462 I’m asking questions about Shadow, and you’re giving assumptions actually. Lmao. I said exactly that and you ignored it, Wild. Then I asked why would he be looking for emeralds, and you delivered no response. Lol
I didn’t see Sonic clear enough to immediately assume it was Sonic, you must have some incredible eyes, lol. Of course we know it was Sonic, but there is no way Shadow did, unless he can just slow down time fast enough to see that the spinning thing is Sonic.
@@kotytang You're a real hypocrite lol you're saying I was making assumptions and yet here you are assuming that shadow couldn't see sonic even though he clearly did
Hence why he said sonic in the first place
And you also proved my point earlier about you just asking questions that you don't even want the answers to. You're asking questions that Obviously can't be answered Like why was shadow collecting chaos emeralds, to prove a non existent point. It's dumb
But how was I assuming when the show literally implies it? Did you think that I was assuming that shadow was looking for an emerald even though he clearly was? Or that he saw sonic running in a fking empty void some how came to the conclusion that it was sonic who had something to do with the giant explosion? 😟 😱😰🤯
What's wild is how you lack the comprehension of basic context clues my guy💀
@@supershonengokusan6462 My bad, didn't realize you messaged back.
You ignored my point with how there's no way he straight up knew that was Sonic, it wasn't an assumption it was based on what the show presented.
I've answered, replied, and asked a question to everything you stated. You quite literally didn't answer any of mine. But word, tell me what I'm ignoring while you yourself aren't engaging properly is a solid strategy.
5:39
Jason
Ever heard of Jason Spisak? He'd be the perfect Shadow, if Razer is any indication!
5:50
Are you saying that the mandates aren't real?
If so, that seems a strange conclusion, since plenty of the examples of Shadow's terrible recent depictions, you've shown, have been from different writers, which is consistent to Ian's statement about the mandates. What supports this even more is Shadow's depiction in the Archie Sonic comic, where in my opinion Shadow's personality has been written pretty well. Ian wrote most of it, mind you.
So, I don't think, Ian is just trying to shift blame for bad writing, when he has clearly demonatrated in the past, before the mandates were a thing, that he can write Shadow very well.
Additionally, at the reference here 6:10, which sites a BumbleKast clip, Ian specifies a particular action of Shadow in the Metal Virus saga, not his entire personality -- at most one aspect of it. People were dissatisfied with Shadow turning into a Zombot the way he did. Ian elaborated the thought process behind this specific story beat, and even admits that it could have been handled better. It doesn't contradict his statements about the mandates at all. He just refutes the fan rumour, an assumption, that Shadow's defeat in that instance was due a specific mandate.
So either the TV Tropes editor misinterpreted it, or was being actively dishonest.
I don't think this is the slam dunk to "prove" Ian is a liar.
I am bringing into the question the mandates that Ian brings up.
Ian says that Shadow was always meant to become a Zombot because he always planned on making him lose through his own arrogance, Shadow was going to go into his “chaos state” and lose through his pride. Which the actual Shadow wouldn’t have happen, only mandate Shadow would have lost though arrogance or pride, yet Ian says that was always the planned to lose that way.
I’m not slam dunking Ian as you say, I’m bringing up the inconsistencies in the mandates he brings up, which he has personally broken several times over, not just with Shadow.
@@kotytang
If you're bringing these particular mandates into question, I don't see how this fits with your claim that these aren't consistent, because they supposedly only affect Ian Flynn, when edgelord Shadow has been done by Pontaff, all Sonic Boom content writers (TV show and games) and the people, who wrote other Shadow appearences (Team Sonic Racing animations, Sonic Twitter Takeover etc.) as well.
If these specific mandates aren't real, why would they all write Shadow in this way too?
I don't think all these writers just happen to misunderstand Shadow's character in the exact same way at around roughly the same time period.
The mandate explanation seems to make the most sense here -- especially given the aforemention ability of Flynn to write Shadow properly in the past.
That the mandates generally speaking aren't consistently obeyed and enforced all the time over different Sonic media is true, but that can be explained through the differing power dynamics with the people Sega is working with.
Flynn is a freelance writer. An "asset" that can be more easily dismissed compared to a big studio such as Paramount for example. The latter pretty much ignored all of Sega's demands -- for better or worse -- went with ugly Sonic, and only backed down due to public backlash.
That they can more easily push for a different direction compared to one writer, who isn't even formally employed at Sega, is obvious.
That doesn't make Ian a liar, but rather Sega inconsistent, which is a consistent issue with this corporation since forever.
Could you mention a bunch of examples of Flynn breaking the mandates he explicitly described?
@@BanBootlicking Just by Shadow acting like he does in Prime is the most mandate conflicting iteration of Shadow, these people have no affiliation with Sega prior, yet are allowed to write this story and do things that no other Sonic writer is allowed to even attempt. (Not just with Shadow)
-All these mandates are from IDW, these are either direct contradictions or statements that are confusedly inaccurate or false.
In a now deleted mandate, but one that was documented in one of my videos a year back- Ian said he can’t make Rough and Tumble spray anything upon their creation and first appearance, yet in the very fight with Knuckles-and first time they are on screen they spray Knuckles.
Ian says he can’t reference any classic depictions, then proceeds to reference a ton of classic media in the comics, even the most recent with classic versions of Metal sonic and a large variety of other classic era references.
Ian says he can’t give direct references to the events in the games, the entire Neo Metal Saga of IDW constantly references the games repeatedly.
Ian says the Master Emerald has no special properties- Frontiers once again shows the Master Emerald has a direct connection to the Chaos Emeralds and Angel island.
Knuckles can’t leave Angel island for any reason unless it’s “a really good one”, yet in almost every piece of Sonic media now, and going forward, including the IDW comics, Knuckles continues to leave the island for largely no reason.
Sega has “allowed” Shadow to think back on how he’s been acting.
No sonic characters can be made as bugs-yet somehow Jewel the Beetle got through
People constantly remind me that in Issues 33-36 Shadow’s personality is constantly flopping from being standoffish, to outright showing genuine concern, to again being standoffish.
--Some of the mandates are since removed so I can’t reference the ones I saw at the time, just like the Rough and Tumble mandate of not spraying, which automatically brings into question the validity of them if they can so easily be deleted after being ignored for so long, or otherwise.
This inconsistency of Sega you’re talking about even further brings into question if these mandates are mandates or if Sega is just saying no for the current scenario rather than a firm “this cannot be done”
@@BanBootlicking Also sega outright stated they weren’t going to get involved with the movie, it had nothing to do with Paramount ignoring Sega, Sega purposely did not stop them from what they were doing, as they were the movie makers and not them.