See the thing is that people do not want other Spider-Man like type characters when they can have the real Spider-Man. It is why would you want something that tastes like beef, when you can just have actual beef, or whatever is your favorite food.
You say that, but pretty much everyone likes Miguel O'Hara, Ben Reilly, Kaine, and even Miles has a pretty sizable fanbase of his own. You should maybe put some asterisks on that "people".
@pedroportela6476 have you seen the sales figures drop the last say 8-10 years ? These books sales combined use to get your book canceled. Those type of comics are one of the main reasons sales are in the gutter nowadays. They are so bad most comicbook fans have walked away from the hobby. Have a high percent of sales when the over all sales are barely a fraction of what they use to is not an accomplishment, it actually something they should ashamed of.
@@pedroportela6476 They really don't. None of those really sold all that well for the standards of that era. All of those versions are inoffensive NOW because they're not shoehorned into everything and are old. People hated Spider-Clones at the time.
@PhthaloGreenskin Hey you can like whatever you want, never let anyone tell you what you can like, that's up to you to decide what you enjoy. Just do not tell me it is popular, when it is not.
Spider-Gwen was a novelty character. An alternate character in the Spider-Verse where Peter died and Gwen blamed herself for it the way Peter blamed himself for 616 Gwen. It made sense in the event and her small run but she was always a limited time character. She didn't have a story are the first mini and should have been retired after that
Perfectly put. I think people don't realise that Gwen wasn't a particularly interesting character, her legend was made by her death and the impact it had on Peter Parker.
I find it a bit hard to agree with this when Peter dies in such a rushed, ridiculous and out-of-character way in her story, it's so displaced from the original it's hard to feel anything about it (definitely not grief or sadness) and I struggle to call it novel. It's no more novel than most bad fanfics may be, and that's what has plagued much of Marvel for the last 20+ years (at least).
Note to the author: Just because YOU like a character doesn’t mean they’re popular. I love Solo. You don’t see me writing articles claiming he’s popular.
I'm already fed up with alternate universes and variants, I want them all to go away and we can focus on the originals. Multiverse should be a once in a while thing but every year they are doing more and more of it.
"But... but... ewywone can be behind da mask, thatswot Stan Lee said." Stan Lee also created his characters with a clear picture and a reason why only THEY are behind the mask.
Personally, i like her 200x better than Miles. At least she fills a niche rather than Marvel pushing her to be Peter's outright replacement like they do with Miles. Though I admit I do like Mayday Parker and Annie as better Spider girls, I don't hate Spider Gwen. I also don't think she'd be as bad if they didn't keep flooding the field with all these horrid "diverse" Spider copies in spiderverse crossover events and did something unique with her.
Spider-Gwen was at best a one shot idea She's only around because her costume is nice and not really for her actual story being interesting All she does is exasperate the issue of too many spider people that only make Peter Parker less special
Spider-Gwen had the potential to be something amazing; a remix of everything Spider-man. Like Daredevil is Kingpin! Peter is the Lizard! Crazy timeline stuff! But the comics was just hotdog water. Toomes is still the Vulture? Why wasn’t he like … a jaded anti-hero instead? Why is Captain America a black woman? Why is Venom so flaccid? Just why. She had the potential to have a decent run like the first Ultimate run, but … there’s just nothing there.
@@ronn201 Vulture being a good guy reminds me of the Unlimited cartoon There's also the waste of Frank Castle and still becoming just the Punisher, also Black Cat unnecessarily being black like with Captain America. They did the same in the New Ultimate universe so it's really just because Black is in her title
I like her design. I feel as if her character and story are an interesting alternate take that is different enough from Peter Parker to stand on it's own. She should be in her own universe where she is the only Spider-person though. The 616 only needs one Spider-Man, and it's the original.
The only time i liked Spider-Gwen was actually in the Ultimate Spiderman show. When Spiderman disappeared from her universe, Gwen took it upon herself to create technology that mimicked Spiderman's powers, such as having a digital spider sense. Another thing I liked was that her relationship with her dad was sort of like Batgirl and the Commissioner, where he knew what she was up to, but it was still sort of secret. That's the only time i liked her because it was such a unique take on the character.
I think the issue with the character is that she's never felt like Gwen Stacy, she only has her name. Yes, it's been since 1973 that she's been in the 616, but even back then she had a personality that's all her own. She's a science major, the child of a cop and she's not the girl next door. Unfortunately in every media that she's appeared in as herself (not Ghost Spider) she is given whatever personality that isn't Mary Jane if MJ is there, or she simply moves into Watson's place, indistinguishable from her red-headed rival. She's a pierced punk sometimes (OG Ultimate Spider-Man) or a catspaw for a symbiote possessed Peter (Spider-Man 3), but never anything that felt solid or unique to Gwen Stacy. She could be a science hero, taking up the chair next to the Fantastic Four like Pete did in the Future Foundation, she could head out into space, or become committed to hunting down monsters, any of the stuff that maybe would be fun to see a spider-hero do that isn't just "doing almost exactly what Peter is doing in New York". Like every single spider-person does. What's the point of spinning off so many variations of a single character if all they are ever going to be is (insert descriptive) Spider-Man? Think of some series supporting ideas that would be fun to see Peter in and give it to a spider character that jibes with that scenario, but for the love of all that's four-colored, get them out of each other's way.
Only time i liked her was in the Ultimate Spiderman show. When Spiderman disappeared from her universe, Gwen took it upon herself to become Spiderman by creating technology that mimicked Spiderman's powers, such as having a digital spider sense. Another thing I liked was that her relationship with her dad was sort of like Batgirl and the Commissioner, where he knew what she was up to, but it was still sort of secret. That's the only time i liked her because it was such a unique take on the character.
Gwen Stacy was Peter Parker's girlfriend. She was murdered by the Green Goblin. That's it. Focus on Spider-Woman instead of over saturating us with more Spider-People.
Spider-Man really is the most diluted brand of Marvel Comics with all the variants and alternate universes and bringing said variants into other universes + the main universe. It’s such a mess. 😅
Spider Gwen is a Disney Princess under the Marvel Comics banner, great for selling merch cause of her design and backstory that is consumed and loved cause of the films and kid toons that parade the character, and her clear connection to Spiderman. As long as the merch sells and she is in media for kids, Disney Corp could care less about floppy presence.
Maybe a better discussion to have is: Why every single comic book character in existence is written better in every other medium BESIDES comics books? Most people had never heard of Hawk-Girl before the "Justice League" animated show. "The Batman: Brave and the Bold" made so many C and D-list characters seem so cool, from Blue Beetle to Detective Chimp! The MCU somehow turned the "Guardians of the Galaxy" into household names. Who would have expected a series about The Penguin of all characters to be getting so much praise? It is almost like comic books have never actually been any good at writing their own characters, even before the entire industry took a nosedive.
Honestly, depends on who is writing them. One of the things i like about the different adaptions is that they can feel like companions. For example, Batman: The Brave and The Bold feels like a companion to not just the Silver Age and Golden Age comics, but also Adam West Batman and even movies like Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. And there's a show/movie for every era, and a comic series to match.
Spider-Girl (Mayday Parker) is a 10 times better character, but they won't use her, because then they would have to let Peter actually grow up. Imagine if in the 90's they would have stuck with Ben Reilly as Spider-Man, have Peter retire with his family, and now in the 2020's a teenage Mayday could take over from Ben with a young adult Miles as a spider duo, have Peter and Ben as returning supporting cast, and an older Spider-Men duo in bigger events, maybe you can put in Kaine too, into the family dynamic.
If they reboot the Spider Gwen comic series, I think they should make it similar to how The Spider-Man TAS was. Take her back to her own universe and have it set or based it off how the 90’s cartoon series had great villains and plot story.
I think they should do it how Spider-Gwen was portrayed in the Ultimate Spiderman show. When Spiderman disappeared from her universe, Gwen took it upon herself to become Spiderman by creating technology that mimicked Spiderman's powers, such as having a digital spider sense. Another thing I liked was that her relationship with her dad was sort of like Batgirl and the Commissioner, where he knew what she was up to, but it was still sort of secret. That's the only time i liked her because it was such a unique take on the character.
It feels like they're doing that with a lot of spider heroes. They had Miguel settle in 616 in 2018 and haven't done anything with that version since, they brought Miles and now Gwen? It won't help make Amazing Spider-Man not suck so I don't see the point.
I legit confuse Spider-Gwen and Gwenpool as they are both absolutely pointless cosplay girl fodder trash characters that have never, and will never, have a story of any significance.
She was popular because the character design was kind of cool. Not because of anything the character herself offered to the setting (see... Moonknight but less relevant). She has no core enemies, no notable backstory... worse - she's not even part of the 616. She's a sideshow from an alternative reality who... commutes to the main universe for university? Or something like that? Very odd, hard to explain - and she undercuts one of the most significant deaths in Marvel history.
An extra bit of annoyance for her creation. Why was she the girl next door/best friend? Peter didn't meet the Stacys till college. Mary Jane is the actual girl next door; the niece of Mays best friend who Pete avoided like the plague until the reality of his stupidity slapped him in the face right on his doorway. It just goes on to be another check on the list of evidence that Marvel has this strange obsession of getting as close to the status quo of the 70s as they can. In 616 Pete acts like a snotty college kid who can't catch a break, they have an obsession with Gwen, and they despise MJ.
All Marvel has to do is kill off Spider Gwen in the 616 universe and then pass the name Ghost Spider to Miles Morales, in the same way Carol Danvers took the mantel of Captain Marvel. It makes sense, especially with his camouflage powers.
I blame the early 2000 justices league cartoon. For the reason, we don’t get enough Hawkman. The writers on that show did too good of a job. On Hawkgirl character, oh well at least the black Adam movie. Featured Hawkman.
Even the original Gwen Stacy wasn’t a popular character when she was alive. She’s only remembered for dying. A variant who doesn’t do anything other than swap Gwen and Peter’s places doesn’t have much to offer as she’s redundant at best.
@@AL-ws5yiAnd? She was only popular for one reason there. Unless the only way to make Gwen popular is to resort to eye candy, which even then, Spider-Gwen at least accomplishes that for a large segment of audiences.
"Whole Spider Society" concept ruins superheroes, Spider-Man especially, no stakes ever matter if there shitload of these, feels like furry convention 😅
I've been getting flamed saying I'm all spidered out and they are dumb. I took it way back to Miles....it's over. And a copy of a copy... Gwen...no thanks. We need to go back to Peter
The only Gwen Stacy I ever cared about was the original, had every ASM in the first run except #4 & 5, but Marvel writers turned her into a cheater who got knocked up with twins by Norman Osborn, of all people. All of the clones and multiverse copies of Gwen Stacy have always annoyed me, showed me that Marvel's house of ideas has been running on empty for a very long time. I remember being so angry when Gwen got "knocked off" by Norman Osborn in ASM 121, but nobody ever stays dead in Marvel Comics forever, but Marvel has made a mockery of that character for over 50 years, and Marvel's ideas of "good stories" are endless clones, symbiotes, variants, spiderverses, gwenverses, venomverses, etc. I'm sure glad I don't waste one cent on all that garbage...
She was made for the cosplayers. Something bright & colorful to distract u with (like jangling keys) but nothing more. That's the long & short of it. 🤷♂️
Spider-Gwen was made only as an homage to that piece of dough with raisins for eyes Heather Antos. Can’t look at that character without seeing the destroyer of comic companies.
I've read a few spider-Gwen books, and you've hit the nail on the head. the interesting thing about the character is that she is a what-if; a one shot or small mini series character with little to no depth. and like miles i feel the only way to make her 'work' is in the absence of Peter Parker. to make her be a thing in the 616 would be a name change, she can't be Gwen Stacy go all Ben Riley clone saga and give her a new name.also the comic title should be ghost spider, its captain America not captain Rogers
Hey here’s a crazy idea bring back my girl mayday Parker spider-girl series the daughter of Peter Parker Spider-Man and Mary Jane and have spider-Gwen crossover in her book because at least that would be tons of fun and be awesome in my opinion.
I agree. I don't like how much they keep forcing Miles to be Peter's successor in all these stories and different forms of media when you also have Spidergirl.
@nightmarefanatic1819 oooh yea....I forgot that one, but since its just a future version, i don't count that. I remember buying the 1st issue. Ironman 2020 falls under that umbrella too, a relative down the line thingy.
So keep her in her own universe where nothing matters, or put her in the 616 where she's not really anything more than a cute ripoff of a better character.
It's almost like a shallow character created for a variant/cover has nothing to offer. Vendetti's run was pretty awesome, Hawkman always getting done dirty.
What annoys me about Spider-Gwen is that her and Peter should have feelings for each other. But they specifically run away from it. All so that Peter can be a loser.
The way Gwen Died was spiderman shots a web line and he catches her before she hits the water but she dies anyway. The biggest question of the arc was Did the Green Goblin kill her before he threw her off the bridge or did Spiderman break her neck when he caught her with his webline! THat was the big tragedy of that story
Tip: A little redrafting could do wonders here. Making a comic about the TVA is such a stupid idea. The faster that faction dies and we stop seeing it the better.
Despite this, im curious as to what you think of Peter Davids latest run of Spider-Man 2099 with "Symbiote Spider Man 2099" that continues off his original run in the 90's. I consider him the best Alt SM but would like to see your thoughts.
I think being a playable character in Marvel Rivals is the new threshold indicating whether a character has made it or not. There are now millions of people who have never picked up a comic book but know who Cloak & Dagger, Squirrel Girl, and Jeff the Shark are.
To be fair Wes, Hawkgirl became very popular thanks to the JL cartoon but then again, the JL cartoon had good writers who treated her like an actual character. But I see your poin. Spider-gwen is nothing but a hollow attempt to resurrect the Original Gwen Stacy, without actually resurrecting her.
The other problem is how the character “Spider-Gwen” was introduced and even the multiverse version isn’t doing anything different other than being a Peter Parker copy at best. Like Miles Morales she needs her own rogues and an engaging story as to why Gwen Stacy is “alive” when she had one of the more memorable deaths in Marvel. If ever there was a proof to why Stan Lee was so against sidekicks. Spider-Ham, Spider-Noir and even Spider-Punk have “character,” and are fun variants. On a far happier note, the latest Lady Death comics are well worth the read. Wes, any news on the Philippino comics creators?
Never read a comic with her in it I think, I don’t remember her anyway, or was she in that storyline where everyone in New York was turned into spiders, what was that story?
I'm one of however few people that bought the original Spider-Gwen series in full as it released because I was & still am obsessed with Rodriguez's art. (embarrassing to admit because of his past lmao) That original series was really difficult to follow for a casual fan like me because of the constant crossovers, events, etc, so even if she wasn't a lukewarm character with the occasional really weird writing choice, they kind of doomed her pre-movies anyway. Anytime her dad was involved with the story was a highlight, but that's about it. Post-spiderverse she's an even weaker character tbh.
I just want to know when we're going to see Spider-Ben #1? Since we're basically nullifying all the deaths that were integral to Peter Parker's development we might as well go all in.
I can't believe we're at the point where Tim Drake is on the level of a Jace Fox (I'm not sure about the spelling of the Fox kid's name, which just reinforces the point)
Marvel's black-centric Captain America 4's first title was "New World Order", reminiscent of the Nazi "New Order', before being morphed to the much less edgy 'Brave New World'. But all is not lost. They can revive the Nazi theme by having a female-centric series called Spider-Gwen: Joy Division.
Spider-Gwen to join Earth-616 Translation: Her solo books suck so let's stick her in the main comic series and also try to tell fans that a female spiderman is better than the the real spiderman. Also Marvel: We hate Peter Parker, we want to kill him off, but we know he is popular. We want Miles and Gwen to be the main spider characters
I remember how used to refer Miles and Gwen as The Spider Clones Saga 2.0. But that ain't cutting it. Marvel was smart enough to admit that the Spider Cone was trash and immediately tried to make the fans forget about it. But Miles and Gwen are still around despite having nothing to themselves, not even superheroe names. So nowadays i call them The Spider Wokes. Because Current Marvel will never admit that these nothing burgers have failed miserably for almost a decade and they will never be characters. Just like Ms Marvel, Iron Heart, Captain Marvel, Black Panther's sister and all the rest of the z-list nothings.
BOARD MEETING BE LIKE: Marvel Executive: Alright, team, that Spider-Verse movie was a commercial success. Let's bring Spider-Gwen into 616 just like we did with Miles. Intern: Um, boss, we should keep Spider-Gwen in her universe. It was fine, unlike Miles. Let's focus on the clones or Mayday as better brand synergy. Plus, we had enough Spider-People already. Marvel Executive: Fair point, YOUR FIRE, GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE.
Spider-Girl (Mayday Parker) is the only one great female Spider character in my opinion. Spider-Gwen is almost a bad joke for me. I never really care for the character. I think that all Spiderverse concept become a tiresome stuff in latest years. It's time to move away from so many Spider-man multiversal variants and take out Miles Morales with all them too.
I'm a little familiar with the version of Spider-Gwen/Ghost-Spider from "Marvel Rising." Honestly I couldn't get into that franchise because of how it was executed, especially concerning the portrayal of that franchise's version of Gwen.
At best, Spider-Gwen works as a Marvels....What If? Just a one shot and done. Cause, beyond that there really is nothing to her character. Sad thing for Marvel, that can be said for most of their new characters.
I really liked Spider-Gwen series before Jason Latour got into legal troubles. Just had a cool look and feel. At that time, Gwen had a Debbie Harry feel. Most importantly it was its own thing. Clearly Marvel is trying to drain every dime out of the character. Problem is, I dunno if there is anything left.
Gwen is like miles where every story they try and come up with has already been told through Peter and every original idea is lackluster. the only Spiderman variants I enjoy was 2099 noir and the clones if you count them. but already the average person only cares about 1 the original.
See the thing is that people do not want other Spider-Man like type characters when they can have the real Spider-Man.
It is why would you want something that tastes like beef, when you can just have actual beef, or whatever is your favorite food.
You say that, but pretty much everyone likes Miguel O'Hara, Ben Reilly, Kaine, and even Miles has a pretty sizable fanbase of his own.
You should maybe put some asterisks on that "people".
@pedroportela6476 have you seen the sales figures drop the last say 8-10 years ? These books sales combined use to get your book canceled. Those type of comics are one of the main reasons sales are in the gutter nowadays. They are so bad most comicbook fans have walked away from the hobby. Have a high percent of sales when the over all sales are barely a fraction of what they use to is not an accomplishment, it actually something they should ashamed of.
@@pedroportela6476
They really don't. None of those really sold all that well for the standards of that era.
All of those versions are inoffensive NOW because they're not shoehorned into everything and are old. People hated Spider-Clones at the time.
Because I like by beef Cyberpunk Flavored Gimme 2099 any day of the week over vanilla Peter Parker.
@PhthaloGreenskin Hey you can like whatever you want, never let anyone tell you what you can like, that's up to you to decide what you enjoy. Just do not tell me it is popular, when it is not.
Spider-Gwen was a novel character until she was shoehorned into everything. I'd rather see more of Spider-Ham.
Yep, same thing goes to Peter Darker (Miles Morales) & Cindy Moon
Spider Ham: Eeble Eeble Eeble. That's all, Marvel.
No, it wasn’t. It’s the kind of unoriginal recolor we’ve seen over and over since the early 90s.
Gwen has such a great costume. That's honestly the best thing about her imo
Spider-Gwen was a novelty character. An alternate character in the Spider-Verse where Peter died and Gwen blamed herself for it the way Peter blamed himself for 616 Gwen. It made sense in the event and her small run but she was always a limited time character. She didn't have a story are the first mini and should have been retired after that
Perfectly put.
I think people don't realise that Gwen wasn't a particularly interesting character, her legend was made by her death and the impact it had on Peter Parker.
I find it a bit hard to agree with this when Peter dies in such a rushed, ridiculous and out-of-character way in her story, it's so displaced from the original it's hard to feel anything about it (definitely not grief or sadness) and I struggle to call it novel. It's no more novel than most bad fanfics may be, and that's what has plagued much of Marvel for the last 20+ years (at least).
Note to the author: Just because YOU like a character doesn’t mean they’re popular.
I love Solo. You don’t see me writing articles claiming he’s popular.
I'm already fed up with alternate universes and variants, I want them all to go away and we can focus on the originals. Multiverse should be a once in a while thing but every year they are doing more and more of it.
Spider Gwen: Welcome to McDonalds. May I take your order?
Deadpool: I want a NOTHING burger with %$#! NOTHING on it.
Where's Deadpool kills The Spiderverse
Would buy.
It would be funny if it was Gwenpool kills the Spiderverse and they retire that character too.
Don’t give them ideas!
@@DeadpoolNegative they just f up the concept anyway
Peter was already tormented by Gwen's death and her clones. Now he had to deal with an alternate version of her hanging out in his universe
That's where the story has epic dramatic potential imho -- in the hands of adequate writers :)
I hate all these damn Spider variants. Way overkill and takes away the uniqueness if Peter Parker.
"But... but... ewywone can be behind da mask, thatswot Stan Lee said."
Stan Lee also created his characters with a clear picture and a reason why only THEY are behind the mask.
I have over 17,000 Marvel 616 comics, and ZERO Spider-Gwen comics.
Okay, I'm impressed. XD
bro you're singlehandedly carrying the whole comic book industry
😮illegal amount
Hell even miles is a nothing burger. They keep giving him more and more powers and his books still dont move
Personally, i like her 200x better than Miles. At least she fills a niche rather than Marvel pushing her to be Peter's outright replacement like they do with Miles. Though I admit I do like Mayday Parker and Annie as better Spider girls, I don't hate Spider Gwen. I also don't think she'd be as bad if they didn't keep flooding the field with all these horrid "diverse" Spider copies in spiderverse crossover events and did something unique with her.
Spider-Gwen was at best a one shot idea
She's only around because her costume is nice and not really for her actual story being interesting
All she does is exasperate the issue of too many spider people that only make Peter Parker less special
Spider-Gwen had the potential to be something amazing; a remix of everything Spider-man. Like Daredevil is Kingpin! Peter is the Lizard! Crazy timeline stuff!
But the comics was just hotdog water. Toomes is still the Vulture? Why wasn’t he like … a jaded anti-hero instead? Why is Captain America a black woman? Why is Venom so flaccid? Just why.
She had the potential to have a decent run like the first Ultimate run, but … there’s just nothing there.
@@ronn201 Vulture being a good guy reminds me of the Unlimited cartoon
There's also the waste of Frank Castle and still becoming just the Punisher, also Black Cat unnecessarily being black like with Captain America. They did the same in the New Ultimate universe so it's really just because Black is in her title
I like her design. I feel as if her character and story are an interesting alternate take that is different enough from Peter Parker to stand on it's own. She should be in her own universe where she is the only Spider-person though. The 616 only needs one Spider-Man, and it's the original.
Well she's only in our universe because she failed to keep her name a secret.
The only time i liked Spider-Gwen was actually in the Ultimate Spiderman show. When Spiderman disappeared from her universe, Gwen took it upon herself to create technology that mimicked Spiderman's powers, such as having a digital spider sense. Another thing I liked was that her relationship with her dad was sort of like Batgirl and the Commissioner, where he knew what she was up to, but it was still sort of secret. That's the only time i liked her because it was such a unique take on the character.
Since Marvel brought the Ultimate universe back, move Miles and Spider-Gwen there, as well as the Sam Jack Nick Fury
Dude reddit is even calling this out! When reddit is calling out. You know there is a problem!
I think the issue with the character is that she's never felt like Gwen Stacy, she only has her name. Yes, it's been since 1973 that she's been in the 616, but even back then she had a personality that's all her own. She's a science major, the child of a cop and she's not the girl next door. Unfortunately in every media that she's appeared in as herself (not Ghost Spider) she is given whatever personality that isn't Mary Jane if MJ is there, or she simply moves into Watson's place, indistinguishable from her red-headed rival. She's a pierced punk sometimes (OG Ultimate Spider-Man) or a catspaw for a symbiote possessed Peter (Spider-Man 3), but never anything that felt solid or unique to Gwen Stacy.
She could be a science hero, taking up the chair next to the Fantastic Four like Pete did in the Future Foundation, she could head out into space, or become committed to hunting down monsters, any of the stuff that maybe would be fun to see a spider-hero do that isn't just "doing almost exactly what Peter is doing in New York". Like every single spider-person does. What's the point of spinning off so many variations of a single character if all they are ever going to be is (insert descriptive) Spider-Man? Think of some series supporting ideas that would be fun to see Peter in and give it to a spider character that jibes with that scenario, but for the love of all that's four-colored, get them out of each other's way.
Only time i liked her was in the Ultimate Spiderman show. When Spiderman disappeared from her universe, Gwen took it upon herself to become Spiderman by creating technology that mimicked Spiderman's powers, such as having a digital spider sense. Another thing I liked was that her relationship with her dad was sort of like Batgirl and the Commissioner, where he knew what she was up to, but it was still sort of secret. That's the only time i liked her because it was such a unique take on the character.
Gwen Stacy was Peter Parker's girlfriend. She was murdered by the Green Goblin. That's it. Focus on Spider-Woman instead of over saturating us with more Spider-People.
If only Marvel had allowed her to have her own rogues gallery. No, they said. It'll only add to more stuff that Sony could use, they said.
I remember when Marvel made fun of multiverses and knockoffs of popular characters.
Spider-Man really is the most diluted brand of Marvel Comics with all the variants and alternate universes and bringing said variants into other universes + the main universe. It’s such a mess. 😅
Spider Gwen is a Disney Princess under the Marvel Comics banner, great for selling merch cause of her design and backstory that is consumed and loved cause of the films and kid toons that parade the character, and her clear connection to Spiderman. As long as the merch sells and she is in media for kids, Disney Corp could care less about floppy presence.
So basically Marvels Harley Quinn.
Maybe a better discussion to have is: Why every single comic book character in existence is written better in every other medium BESIDES comics books?
Most people had never heard of Hawk-Girl before the "Justice League" animated show.
"The Batman: Brave and the Bold" made so many C and D-list characters seem so cool, from Blue Beetle to Detective Chimp!
The MCU somehow turned the "Guardians of the Galaxy" into household names.
Who would have expected a series about The Penguin of all characters to be getting so much praise?
It is almost like comic books have never actually been any good at writing their own characters, even before the entire industry took a nosedive.
Honestly, depends on who is writing them. One of the things i like about the different adaptions is that they can feel like companions. For example, Batman: The Brave and The Bold feels like a companion to not just the Silver Age and Golden Age comics, but also Adam West Batman and even movies like Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. And there's a show/movie for every era, and a comic series to match.
The real Gwen Stacy’s death was a pivotal event in the Marvel Universe. Spider-Gwen is an unneeded and unwanted meaningless knockoff.
Spider-Girl (Mayday Parker) is a 10 times better character, but they won't use her, because then they would have to let Peter actually grow up. Imagine if in the 90's they would have stuck with Ben Reilly as Spider-Man, have Peter retire with his family, and now in the 2020's a teenage Mayday could take over from Ben with a young adult Miles as a spider duo, have Peter and Ben as returning supporting cast, and an older Spider-Men duo in bigger events, maybe you can put in Kaine too, into the family dynamic.
Marvel has a Verse problem. Spider-verse is just "Hey here is a new variant" Venomverse is a disaster and just as bad.
If they reboot the Spider Gwen comic series, I think they should make it similar to how The Spider-Man TAS was. Take her back to her own universe and have it set or based it off how the 90’s cartoon series had great villains and plot story.
She only show in a one episode.
I think they should do it how Spider-Gwen was portrayed in the Ultimate Spiderman show. When Spiderman disappeared from her universe, Gwen took it upon herself to become Spiderman by creating technology that mimicked Spiderman's powers, such as having a digital spider sense. Another thing I liked was that her relationship with her dad was sort of like Batgirl and the Commissioner, where he knew what she was up to, but it was still sort of secret. That's the only time i liked her because it was such a unique take on the character.
Spidergwen only worked in her own universe and putting her in the main stream marvel universe was a bad idea from the start in my opinion.
Yes,little May it's the only one good Spider-man variant for me.
It feels like they're doing that with a lot of spider heroes. They had Miguel settle in 616 in 2018 and haven't done anything with that version since, they brought Miles and now Gwen? It won't help make Amazing Spider-Man not suck so I don't see the point.
I legit confuse Spider-Gwen and Gwenpool as they are both absolutely pointless cosplay girl fodder trash characters that have never, and will never, have a story of any significance.
She was popular because the character design was kind of cool. Not because of anything the character herself offered to the setting (see... Moonknight but less relevant). She has no core enemies, no notable backstory... worse - she's not even part of the 616. She's a sideshow from an alternative reality who... commutes to the main universe for university? Or something like that?
Very odd, hard to explain - and she undercuts one of the most significant deaths in Marvel history.
Was that an implication that moon knight doesn't have anything to him?
An extra bit of annoyance for her creation. Why was she the girl next door/best friend? Peter didn't meet the Stacys till college. Mary Jane is the actual girl next door; the niece of Mays best friend who Pete avoided like the plague until the reality of his stupidity slapped him in the face right on his doorway. It just goes on to be another check on the list of evidence that Marvel has this strange obsession of getting as close to the status quo of the 70s as they can. In 616 Pete acts like a snotty college kid who can't catch a break, they have an obsession with Gwen, and they despise MJ.
All Marvel has to do is kill off Spider Gwen in the 616 universe and then pass the name Ghost Spider to Miles Morales, in the same way Carol Danvers took the mantel of Captain Marvel. It makes sense, especially with his camouflage powers.
I blame the early 2000 justices league cartoon. For the reason, we don’t get enough Hawkman. The writers on that show did too good of a job. On Hawkgirl character, oh well at least the black Adam movie. Featured Hawkman.
Even the original Gwen Stacy wasn’t a popular character when she was alive. She’s only remembered for dying. A variant who doesn’t do anything other than swap Gwen and Peter’s places doesn’t have much to offer as she’s redundant at best.
Gwen Stacy was popular outside of the US. In Mexico Gwen didn’t die.
@@AL-ws5yiAnd? She was only popular for one reason there. Unless the only way to make Gwen popular is to resort to eye candy, which even then, Spider-Gwen at least accomplishes that for a large segment of audiences.
@@AL-ws5yiMexican Gwen had a great ass.
@@AL-ws5yi wow I never knew that! Mexican Spider-Man has a different continuity after Gwen !
"Whole Spider Society" concept ruins superheroes, Spider-Man especially, no stakes ever matter if there shitload of these, feels like furry convention 😅
Spider-Gwen is a costume, not a character.
I've been getting flamed saying I'm all spidered out and they are dumb. I took it way back to Miles....it's over. And a copy of a copy... Gwen...no thanks. We need to go back to Peter
The only Gwen Stacy I ever cared about was the original, had every ASM in the first run except #4 & 5, but Marvel writers turned her into a cheater who got knocked up with twins by Norman Osborn, of all people. All of the clones and multiverse copies of Gwen Stacy have always annoyed me, showed me that Marvel's house of ideas has been running on empty for a very long time. I remember being so angry when Gwen got "knocked off" by Norman Osborn in ASM 121, but nobody ever stays dead in Marvel Comics forever, but Marvel has made a mockery of that character for over 50 years, and Marvel's ideas of "good stories" are endless clones, symbiotes, variants, spiderverses, gwenverses, venomverses, etc. I'm sure glad I don't waste one cent on all that garbage...
love ya, Wes, but Spider-Ham was first featured in the 1983 one-shot Marvel Tails.
6yrs before the Simpsons even came out.
She was made for the cosplayers.
Something bright & colorful to distract u with (like jangling keys) but nothing more.
That's the long & short of it. 🤷♂️
Spider-Gwen was made only as an homage to that piece of dough with raisins for eyes Heather Antos. Can’t look at that character without seeing the destroyer of comic companies.
their strat is "We can't (dont want to) actually write spiderman, so lets just keep trying to make new ones"
I've read a few spider-Gwen books, and you've hit the nail on the head. the interesting thing about the character is that she is a what-if; a one shot or small mini series character with little to no depth. and like miles i feel the only way to make her 'work' is in the absence of Peter Parker. to make her be a thing in the 616 would be a name change, she can't be Gwen Stacy go all Ben Riley clone saga and give her a new name.also the comic title should be ghost spider, its captain America not captain Rogers
Hey here’s a crazy idea bring back my girl mayday Parker spider-girl series the daughter of Peter Parker Spider-Man and Mary Jane and have spider-Gwen crossover in her book because at least that would be tons of fun and be awesome in my opinion.
I agree. I don't like how much they keep forcing Miles to be Peter's successor in all these stories and different forms of media when you also have Spidergirl.
@ I personally like miles morales Spider-Man he’s awesome and him being Peter Parker successor could work.
@@TevyaSmolka I've honestly just gotten tired of them using him as the successor so much. It's gotten boring.
@ gotcha
Other than peter parker, Spider ham and Spider woman, you can dump the rest in the trash.
Well, Spider-Girl was good too.
@sird2333 meh...she was ok, but it was more the writing of the character, than the character itself.
Too much of anything make it boring imo.
2099 is the Goat
@nightmarefanatic1819 oooh yea....I forgot that one, but since its just a future version, i don't count that. I remember buying the 1st issue.
Ironman 2020 falls under that umbrella too, a relative down the line thingy.
Tatanka never once won the InterContinental Title, although he fought Shawn Michaels for it at WrestleMania IX.
So keep her in her own universe where nothing matters, or put her in the 616 where she's not really anything more than a cute ripoff of a better character.
I kinda liked the idea of Spider-Gwen at first. Then they lost me with "Gwenom". Ugh.
It's almost like a shallow character created for a variant/cover has nothing to offer.
Vendetti's run was pretty awesome, Hawkman always getting done dirty.
Yes, I like that he actually allowed Hawkman and Hawkgirl to be together. So refreshing.
I feel like there’s an increase in comic book characters that publishers wanna push but don’t know what to do with them
There are way too many Spider-people now and it makes Peter Parker feel less special.
What annoys me about Spider-Gwen is that her and Peter should have feelings for each other. But they specifically run away from it. All so that Peter can be a loser.
New hawk girl will be Hawk Tuah!
Peter Parker is the only spiderman for me.
The way Gwen Died was spiderman shots a web line and he catches her before she hits the water but she dies anyway. The biggest question of the arc was Did the Green Goblin kill her before he threw her off the bridge or did Spiderman break her neck when he caught her with his webline! THat was the big tragedy of that story
In the comic Goblin states that the fall killed her any fall from that height could kill anyone.
If Marvel was gonna do a whole "one of Peter's love interests is a Spider hero in a different universe" concept, it should have been MJ.
Tip: A little redrafting could do wonders here.
Making a comic about the TVA is such a stupid idea. The faster that faction dies and we stop seeing it the better.
The only reason why Spider-Gwen works in the Spider-Verse movies is Hailee Steinfeld. The same way Kate Bishop works in the MCU because of her.
Drummers usually die first in rock bands 😂😂
Despite this, im curious as to what you think of Peter Davids latest run of Spider-Man 2099 with "Symbiote Spider Man 2099" that continues off his original run in the 90's. I consider him the best Alt SM but would like to see your thoughts.
Miguel is mu favorite Spider-Man period but that series was a mess.
Novelty character that well past its sell by date
I think being a playable character in Marvel Rivals is the new threshold indicating whether a character has made it or not. There are now millions of people who have never picked up a comic book but know who Cloak & Dagger, Squirrel Girl, and Jeff the Shark are.
It's the typical flock behavior people love to show all the time.
To be fair Wes, Hawkgirl became very popular thanks to the JL cartoon but then again, the JL cartoon had good writers who treated her like an actual character. But I see your poin. Spider-gwen is nothing but a hollow attempt to resurrect the Original Gwen Stacy, without actually resurrecting her.
The other problem is how the character “Spider-Gwen” was introduced and even the multiverse version isn’t doing anything different other than being a Peter Parker copy at best. Like Miles Morales she needs her own rogues and an engaging story as to why Gwen Stacy is “alive” when she had one of the more memorable deaths in Marvel. If ever there was a proof to why Stan Lee was so against sidekicks.
Spider-Ham, Spider-Noir and even Spider-Punk have “character,” and are fun variants.
On a far happier note, the latest Lady Death comics are well worth the read.
Wes, any news on the Philippino comics creators?
Gwen didnt hit the pavement, Spidey's web snagged her, but the momentum she had was already fatal
Never read a comic with her in it I think, I don’t remember her anyway, or was she in that storyline where everyone in New York was turned into spiders, what was that story?
spider-island, no she wan't there, she appeared later in the first spider-verse arc.
@ Ah ok thanks, I’m not sure if I have that, if it was after 2011 I don’t.
I never understood how Robbie Rodriguez’ chicken scratch got past editorial.
2:00: I'm sorry, he would do what?!
I'm one of however few people that bought the original Spider-Gwen series in full as it released because I was & still am obsessed with Rodriguez's art. (embarrassing to admit because of his past lmao) That original series was really difficult to follow for a casual fan like me because of the constant crossovers, events, etc, so even if she wasn't a lukewarm character with the occasional really weird writing choice, they kind of doomed her pre-movies anyway. Anytime her dad was involved with the story was a highlight, but that's about it. Post-spiderverse she's an even weaker character tbh.
Isn’t she just a heather antos insert?
I feel your pain I always hope for a decent long running Black Adam series, but alas...
I didn't really recover from the spiderverse movie... she changed her tone when Miguel and company was around 🧐📝
I just want to know when we're going to see Spider-Ben #1? Since we're basically nullifying all the deaths that were integral to Peter Parker's development we might as well go all in.
I can't believe we're at the point where Tim Drake is on the level of a Jace Fox (I'm not sure about the spelling of the Fox kid's name, which just reinforces the point)
Marvel's black-centric Captain America 4's first title was "New World Order", reminiscent of the Nazi "New Order', before being morphed to the much less edgy 'Brave New World'. But all is not lost. They can revive the Nazi theme by having a female-centric series called Spider-Gwen: Joy Division.
Spider-Gwen is kind of a neat character design but yeah that's all there is to her.
Maybe she could take one for the team and save Peter from his 8th death run, and stay dead in 2 multiverse's
Spider-Gwen to join Earth-616
Translation: Her solo books suck so let's stick her in the main comic series and also try to tell fans that a female spiderman is better than the the real spiderman.
Also Marvel: We hate Peter Parker, we want to kill him off, but we know he is popular. We want Miles and Gwen to be the main spider characters
Huh, Geoff Johns did a Hawkman run? Lol, I’m off to the back issue bins.
I love Ghost Spider as a variant. Hate this need to bring alternate versions into the primary universe.
I’d prefer if they just eliminated all of the derivative spider characters. Take Spider-Man back to the basics, just Peter fighting villains.
And MILES MORALES sucked too
I remember how used to refer Miles and Gwen as The Spider Clones Saga 2.0. But that ain't cutting it. Marvel was smart enough to admit that the Spider Cone was trash and immediately tried to make the fans forget about it. But Miles and Gwen are still around despite having nothing to themselves, not even superheroe names. So nowadays i call them The Spider Wokes. Because Current Marvel will never admit that these nothing burgers have failed miserably for almost a decade and they will never be characters. Just like Ms Marvel, Iron Heart, Captain Marvel, Black Panther's sister and all the rest of the z-list nothings.
SpiderGwen is a Z list character.
And it's still better than Downeyverse's Miles and Peter. She resembles the real Spider-Man from the comics. They don't.
I like spider gwen more than miles Morales
Making her an activist stand in didn't help much in the 2nd movie.
She's OK in "Spidey & His Amazing Friends". And that's about it. Two spider-people (Peter Parker Spider-Man and Venom) are enough for 616, IMHO.
BOARD MEETING BE LIKE:
Marvel Executive: Alright, team, that Spider-Verse movie was a commercial success. Let's bring Spider-Gwen into 616 just like we did with Miles.
Intern: Um, boss, we should keep Spider-Gwen in her universe. It was fine, unlike Miles. Let's focus on the clones or Mayday as better brand synergy. Plus, we had enough Spider-People already.
Marvel Executive: Fair point, YOUR FIRE, GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE.
Spider-Girl (Mayday Parker) is the only one great female Spider character in my opinion. Spider-Gwen is almost a bad joke for me. I never really care for the character. I think that all Spiderverse concept become a tiresome stuff in latest years. It's time to move away from so many Spider-man multiversal variants and take out Miles Morales with all them too.
Mayday is also a what-if character. Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew) is the only canon female spider hero.
@@lightborn9071 We have Julia Carpenter,Mattie Franklin and Anya Corazyon too.
@@EvandroACruz They are also just either replacements or get their powers from others. But in any way are simply "representative" quack.
She is not important because they insist on shipping her with morales 🤮🤮
People who wants their Spider-Gwen fix, will watch the movies, and that's it. They're not going to buy the comics.
Except for Matt Murdock in her reality, all the other heroes variants there are horrible and unimaginably in bad taste
Get rid of Spider Gwen, Spiderboy, Spider-man Noir, Spider Ham, Spider Punk, Silk, etc.
I'm a little familiar with the version of Spider-Gwen/Ghost-Spider from "Marvel Rising." Honestly I couldn't get into that franchise because of how it was executed, especially concerning the portrayal of that franchise's version of Gwen.
Shouldn't Spider Gwen be the same age as Peter Parker? Why is she always portrayed as a pre-teen?
At best, Spider-Gwen works as a Marvels....What If? Just a one shot and done. Cause, beyond that there really is nothing to her character. Sad thing for Marvel, that can be said for most of their new characters.
Gwen is the only character in Spiderverse who resembles the real Peter from the comics. Miles is a woke copy. Peter is a comic supporting.
I really liked Spider-Gwen series before Jason Latour got into legal troubles. Just had a cool look and feel. At that time, Gwen had a Debbie Harry feel. Most importantly it was its own thing.
Clearly Marvel is trying to drain every dime out of the character.
Problem is, I dunno if there is anything left.
They did everything it could be had with this character outside actually trowing her into the grinder so she made a place for herself.
Gwen is like miles where every story they try and come up with has already been told through Peter and every original idea is lackluster. the only Spiderman variants I enjoy was 2099 noir and the clones if you count them. but already the average person only cares about 1 the original.