Quick disclaimer: I have a spider ball python only because he is a rescue. Watch the video for information about why rescuing spiders is not only ok, but can actually help with the problem.
Amazing Animal Adventures glad you did a small amount of research on the spider ball python Gene although it's unfortunate you're slandering the spider genetic you should probably stay a hobbyist your experience should be much more if you're trying to be a educator
Oh shit where did you study herpetology? Id like to find out how you concluded that it is a neurological issue. Oh whats that? Some dude on the internet said it was? Gotcha thats all i need to know about your experience.
It's a domesticated snake artards(crutches hand shakes vigorously whilst moaning) if the snake is not suffering and eats like a champ(spiders are notorious food mongers) then why you pissing you panties? Shouldn't people be more concerned about the thousands of other species of animals that suffer for our fucking amusement? Or are you gunna pick apart one select, subjective and honestly pointless argument? Shut the fuck up, I get it if you think it's wrong to breed a weird trait then I think it's wrong for your ugly asses to be produced.
It's sick that people would actually think the head wobble is cute. That's like going up to a human with a disability and telling them that their disability is cute.
People also think bulging eyes/sounds of not being able to breathe in brachycephalic dogs is cute. I commented on a video about a rabbit who is having a seizure-- I know this because both of my own rabbits have seizures-- & the amount of backlash I got was astounding. No, it's not cute, it's a serious medical issue. I'm disappointed that we refuse to see pain for what it is & treat it appropriately, whether it be snake, dog or bunny. It really hurts my heart. These aren't display items. They are living, feeling beings.
i think snakes are little understood, you can't say it's "sick" like the people who say that are perverse and callous or something, this is the first time i'm hearing of this, and maybe the people who say that don't know much about snakes beyond how to take basic care of them, having affection for excentricities the snake presents in its behaviour isn't sick, they probably don't know its due to some neurological problem in line with their morph
I had a miniature poodle who had seizures related to inbreeding. I spent years taking care of him and that look in his eyes just before a seizure is something I will never be able to forget. No animals should suffer because our aesthetic preference.
Yeah it comes as a responsibility from the breeders and the customers. I have a toy poodle. I bought her from a registered breeder, her mum and dad were DNA and prp tested and I met the mum and dad and I know that she is good. Gotta really do research when it comes to living creatures
I'm sorry. Growing up I had a cocker spaniel that had seizures we ended up having to put him down they got so bad. It's never easy to see an anime suffer and it's never easy to put then down to put an end to the suffering.
@@mrwrldwide6351 lies. We can tell when our dog has a seziure...by her bulging eyes...or she'll begin to wobble and lay down. She's a big sweetie we love her alot. But her seziures happen with noise...such as a big loud crash or thunder.
I feel that. My toy poodle died from what i believe were siezures. She was 17 though, so i mean she was getting old too. But it was heartbreaking. After a few siezures she eventually she couldn't walk and would just defecate on herself. I was a kid and home alone for the week when it happened too. I kept her clean and kept helping her eat and drink the best i could until she died in her sleep. Our other poodle suffers from seveeeeere night terrors. Almost every night he wakes himself up screaming like something is eating him alive. Its the craziest noise ive ever heard any dog make. Its heartbreaking, but also incredibly annoying since its been almost nightly for years now.
Calling a head wobble cute is like telling someone with epilepsy that it's cute when they have a seizure. They're not bobbing their head up and down like a puppy or a parrot for attention. Yeah it's cute to see a derpy silly snake. And yeah you can argue that they're not in the wild so it does t matter if they're upside down or not because they're safe. Someone who has to wear a helmet because of their seizures is safe from hitting their head. But it's still not okay. It's still not cute.
TheHPExperiment spiders do not suffer a lower quality of life than any other ball python. Spiders eat, poop, shed and breed just like any other ball python with no issues. If ball python enthusiasts felt that their spiders were suffering in any way, they would not be bred. Not to mention that balls being the finicky snakes that they are, don't eat or breed if they are not happy or well. The multitude of spiders that exists, proves that the spider doesn't think that it has an issue.
@@daryla7825 Jags eat and breed just fine they are also infamous for having neuro i've seen snakes with not so great levels of neuro/torticolis and they will still eat and breed just fine it doesn't make it ok to breed them
Also, in addition, this issue is in other species too. Lemon frost leopard geckos who always develop tumors, Dogs like pugs that can't breathe, Scottish folds that look cute but get arthritis at three years due to bone deformities, and breeders mass produce them also. Try breathing through a straw for 5 minutes, that's how pugs feel all the time. And did you know every single Scottish fold breeder who was offered a free x-ray to prove their cats weren't in pain refused? Sorry long comment, bad breeders for aesthetic and "cuteness" is a big passion of mine. I need to stop myself from talking about this now or I'll keep going on.
And Dragon Scale Bettas! They are at higher risk of developing tumors and are very prone to dragon or diamond eye, which is when scales or pigment grows over their eyes and it will partially blind or totally blind them.
Yeah.... In general, while I think it's okay to get a pet that's healthy and fits your "aesthetic", there's a place it should stop. I even think this with docking an animal's ear or tail. If there's a possible infection? Definitely! Surgery makes sense with some of those cases! But.... Just for looks? No. If it hurts them, you shouldn't do it
Even in the rabbit world there are breeders specifically for undesirable traits. Dwarfism, shortened snout, dragging ears as long as the body, so much weight it strains the body, albinism, long fur... It's upsetting. As far as I know my own bunnies are sound-- decent head shape (they breathe easy), fur length (they won't overheat & can see what they are doing), weight. I'm very conscious of the ethics of rabbit breeding, but I still find myself wanting a Flemish giant-- can be 20+lbs. I will never let myself purchase one unless it is a rescue, but my even my own kindhearted mind still tries to justify it as 'not being that bad'. I understand the struggle. The mind can justify just about anything. It's tough when you really want X animal & you know you will definitely give it a loving home. But part of being an adult is doing research & having self-control, isn't it? It's a sticky wicket. Also, I didn't know that Scottish folds were broken. Could you explain more about this?
Finally someone who appreciates morphs for their beauty and diversity, but also understands the repercussions of irresponsible breeding! SOO many morph haters see this as a "black and white" issue, meaning you either love morphs or hate em', but I totally agree, sacrificing well being for aesthetics is so horrible.
I agree. There seems to be the camp of "only wildtypes" and then the camp of "most crazy morphed animal possible." As with all things though, I think morphs can be enjoyed, as long as applied with moderation and responsibility.
"Girl where do you think you're going. Girl no" my relationship with my banana BP Elliot in a nutshell haha. But hey thank you for making this video, I had no idea that this was happening and I'm so glad I'm aware of it now.
Could not agree more! 👍🏻 same issue with dogs like pugs for example. We've drastically negatively impacted their health for our own aesthetic preferences. An animals health should never be sacrificed for anything; especially not for human preferences for their appearance. I definitely don't know enough about snakes to argue whether or not the spider gene is responsible for heath issues, but regardless I think your point as a whole is a very important one.
My cousin is a total cunt to people who tell her that pugs are shouldn't continue to be bred because she thinks they r cute. Her pug doesnt look like a normal pug amd is huge. Its disturbing
Actually went to school with and was friends with a girl who had (and still has) a pug. When i talked to her a couple of years ago (I think we were about 18) about dogs and the health problems dog breeds such as pugs face, she flat out denied them and told me that this was "false" and "these kinds of dogs, including hers, were just fine". Even though her dog would frequently make these snoring sounds (especially when running) and even though she had said herself that she had to make sure her dog was in the shade or had a bath during the spring/summer to prevent it from having a heat stroke from just taking a walk.
I saw a young ball python doing a severe head wobble in a reptile shop once and I had no idea what was going on with it. Since I've never owned a snake, I thought it was just something that snakes did that you don't hear about. Had no idea it was a neurological disorder. Poor thing. Great video. Thank you for the information.
I wanted a spider ball python, until I learned that they are the ones with shakey heads (and other things wrong with them). It's like what we're doing to dogs, making their skull so deformed that they have breathing problems. Making their backs so slopped that they'll have hip problems early on. Having such short legs and a long body that they'll have back problems, etc.
I think spider ball pythons are different than pugs who can barely breath. most spider ball pythons can eat fine. how ever the more severe ones that are always cork screwing should obviously not be bred because thats just a constant suffering.
You: "Youre exposing your soft underbelly" *pok pok pok* Sven: ":3 ?" I know the issue isn't funny that just made me snort. Now I have to go flip my killer bee. He is known to corkscrew a lot and tips his head back all the way upside down. Very very irresponsible to the initial breeder for loosing them to the reptile world. Which is a shame.. Bees are my favorite
The worst thing about being upside down for a long time in a reptile is that they can choke and have internal organs issues for that. I think exactly the same with Enigma and Lemon Frost leopard geckos. I've discovered your channel few days ago and I love it👍.
As someone who loves the spider morph im glad I found out a few months ago about their issues. It changed my mind about ever buying one. If one ever ended up in my care due to a rehome or other circumstance I would be happy but I don't feel okay buying spiders from even reputable breeders because its the gene that causes a lot of the issues.
I worked at a chain pet store (it was hell. Never buy any animal from Petco or smart.) We got a spider that just. Did not eat. Starved itself to death. Another spider constantly "stargazed" just looked up and would flip over, like he thought he was going straight. It got so skinny because it obviously couldn't eat. Was just skin and bones at that point. He was returned to the breeder. Probably put in a freezer. Sigh.
Ri Dragon they don't Start gaze all the time, the conditions that animal were kept in were most likely the reason it did that all the time, "if it actually did" but the reason that animal did not eat is becuase at those afor mention "pet store". I've "adopted" and raised countless snakes from those stores and the problem every single time is that they do not feed live food. almost every baby Ball Python mainly any under 400 grams will ONLY EAT LIVE
What the hell are you talking about? Almost any ball python of any age can and will eat f/t. Plenty of breeders use them by default and even the babies that don't eat f/t will eventually do so, once they have a healthy feeding response. And what do neurological defects have to do with eating live or f/t? The actual nervous system of the snake is deformed. Husbandry can help sometimes, but it's clear you just LIKE spiders and LIKE feeding live. Do you actually understand the scientific mechanism behind wobble genes and neurological disorder? If you did, you'd understand that feeding live will do NOTHING to change it. The damage is done very early in the snakes gestation and is permanent.
Many pet stores keep the pythons in unfavorable conditions which stresses them and causes them to not eat. Especially if the snake was stargazing all the time, it seems simple to suggest it was terribly stressed which contributed to it going off feed. Hatchling balls are sometimes more picky are require live food to kick start their appetite, but then quickly switch to f/t. If the breeder never made the switch to f/t before selling to the pet store, that could have also been part of the problem.
I agree with all of this, but none of it addresses the problems with wobble morphs. It's important to remember that low wobble parents can and do produce debilitated offspring, and vice versa.
Yeah that's true, Claire, it seems mostly impossible to predict whether or not offspring will show a lot of wobble or not very much just by looking at the parents. Some people do say that pairing two snakes with bad wobble has more chance for bad wobble, but I don't think much research has been done on that side, because most breeders avoid pairing animals that have a severe example of the condition. I was mostly pointing out to Ri Dragon that it probably had little to nothing to do with the snake being a spider that it was stressed at the pet store and wouldn't eat. That kind of thing happens to all kinds of morphs in bad conditions.
I agree with you on this! You are one of the few people I've seen do a video on this topic that has come out and stated that we as humans can't assume that just because they can eat and breed that they are comfortable. Most people just kind of dismiss the distinct possibility that they may be suffering in other ways even if they aren't in pain. I have a movement disorder and although that condition doesn't cause me pain in the usual sense there are time when I am miserable with it because my muscles have to work about 10 times as hard as people who don't have this condition. My brain sends faulty signals to my muscles at times. Sometimes it's almost unnoticable, but then there are other times (weeks and even months at a time) when it is exhausting just to be alive and making the slightest movement makes me feel like I have over-exercised really badly. This can and does affect my neck. In fact as I'm typing now I have such exhaustion in my neck muscles when holding my head upright that I have to prop my chin up on my elbowl to continue functioning. I am bedbound by the way because just so much as going out to a doctor's appointment for a few hours in a wheelchair is nearly unbearable for my neck and core sitting upright. If my neck is not supported for more than a short time then I am really uncomfortable. This is how I imagine Spiders must feel and then they probably feel dizzy on top of it. They just don't have the ability to communicate it to us. I think it's a pretty close approximation to certain movement disorders in humans! Although I like the look of certain Spider combos I think there are other ways to achieve that look using morphs that have more stable genetics like the Woma for instance or Extreme gene. Great topic! I hope you'll do more videos like this! Panda Pieds and their genetic defects would be another good topic to do in the future. I have seen some horribly kinked babies and it's really sad to see them suffer and die often within 48 hours of coming out of the egg. There are safer ways to create the look of those too if breeders are creative.
Wow, thanks for sharing your perspective, that's powerful stuff. I think it really sheds some light on what I was trying to say, regarding our unawareness of what these animals may be experiencing. Hang in there!
Amazing Animal Adventures, no it doesn't. His issues cause him to be bed bound, whereas the spider issue doesn't hinder the spider in any form or manner from enjoying a normal life no different from any other ball python.
This! I have neurological issues of my own that get 10x worse when I'm stressed to where my muscles either twitch randomly whether I am awake or asleep, to looking like advanced Parkinson's when it's really bad and walking even being difficult. Despite this I keep up an active life, work full time, and have 11 bunnies to care for at home. My disorder doesn't cause me pain or keep me from living my life (usually) but it can make it pretty miserable when my twitching muscles make me drop things or "flinch" away from my husband. usually it's not any more disruptive to my life than the head shake appears to be for spider morphs but that doesn't make it any less awful to live with 24/7.
I wouldn't doubt that you're right about what the snakes might be dealing with. I have minor motor tics and they are not painful in and of themselves but I can feel the wear and tear the incorrect movement puts on my body. Sadly as an aside, Woma also causes wobble
Bro, I appreciate you so much for making this video. I have a bumblebee ball python, and just a year after owning her I was really confused by her movements. Of course I went to google first. Everyone pretty much told said not to worry about it. I continued to see it, and it continued to alarm me. Some of the things you showed in this video are things that just from knowing my snake I’ve clearly noticed, but didn’t necessarily associate with the same issue. After watching this video so many things are clear as day. I wish more people took the approach you did. In addition to the things you mentioned maybe one or two nights a month in the middle of the night I will hear my snake fall. I always ask myself, why is my snake falling. It was really a result of her doing the wobble is so high in the cage, then losing her balance and falling to the floor. It’s kind of sad want to really realize it. Thanks for educating us all!
Same! I have a firebumblebee and hes had all sorts of problems with feeding and is way more active than any ball python I know. I was constantly worried about him for the longest time until I got a tarantula from someone who was starting to breed ball pythons that explained to me what was going on. I'll love my baby forever&the best I can though, regardless of the wobble probs
I really appreciate your comment about boycotting breeding of poor genes. It rings true for every species. While I do think every life is sacred, buying them to save them is not as noble as some may think. Buying animals from poor breeders or mills does simply show them there is enough demand to make the practice profitable, and creates more animals with a quality of life that would be undesirable for most of us humans. Generally, I don't support most breeding practices and put emphasis on rescue, rehoming, and rehabilitation. (If you do buy from breeders, it doesn't make you a bad person, just do all your research and know exactly what you're getting into.) But for those of you who wish to stop these kinds of breeding practices, simply do not buy from these breeders, and encourage others to follow your example.
I actually didn't know that this was a big issue, however my yellow spider (who looks pretty similar to your yellow spider there) has that same... neuralgic challenged problem there. She wobbles really hard and goes upside down all the time, and it makes me really nervous because I think she's hurt or going to get hurt. I love her to death, and she's not aggressive, but I'm getting off topic. I'll keep this in mind, and I'm most defiantly not going to buy another spider. They sure look hella cool, but the defects are... just cruel in my opinion. Thank you for sharing and I'm glad you expressed your opinion about this. :)
Thank you for addressing this issue. I completely agree with you on the Spider gene. I have a Pewter Bee (has Spider gene) that shows signs of a neurological defect. I did not learn about this condition until after I bought her. She does the "upside down" thing and occasionally gets the feeding wobble when she is super hungry. Almost like, the more excited she gets the worse it is. I love her and wouldn't give her up for anything, but I would certainly NEVER breed her. Poor little guys don't deserve that.
it was good to see a vid like this! there's been a bit of drama in the australian reptile hobby recently over the ethics of the jaguar gene in carpet pythons (produces similar neuro issues to spider) and some people really don't want to address the issue. it's good to see that there's some discussion in america that puts the animal's welfare first.
You had no idea because you did no research there are plenty of videos and information on the gene via the web. The best video is by balls2u its a 2 part video explaining the spider gene and the percentages of the wobble which none of these anti spider videos offer. Because they dont want you to know that the percentage is very low. They are doing it for views and subs and in alot of cases using Brian Barczyks name to gain extra views. Dont believe me go to each page and look at the amount of views for a regular video compared to their spider video its alot i mean way more.
Uf, I thought that my bumblebee enchi (Contains spider genes) was completely fine and that the head wobble was normal but now I know that it's not normal :v thx for letting me know I guess? I also observed that he rarely catches his prey in 1 strike, he normally misses a lot of times...
I just wanted to let you know I have shared this video in about 7 snake forums. As well as the comment section in Brian Barczyk’s assine video he made a few days ago, minimizing the issues with spiders. Anyone who has watched your video has said it is spot on and the best commentary that sums up the whys and hows of the spider debate. I love it, couldn’t say it better myself. Which why I don’t, I just post a link to your video. Thank you for all your do!
PREACH you earned my sub, hopefully something is done about this gene. i really wish people would see how horrible and depressing it is to watch these creatures flop and wobble.
1.) lets cut the guy a bit of slack at the 310 minute mark. It looks harder than I am sure it probably is, and I don't think he had any intent etc. to harm that snake, nor did he. I have had similar complaints just because I picked up a snake too fast, etc. Pretty obvious he cares for the animals. 2.) The spider gene. Anyone who knows me, knows I am a fan. And I do breed (and will continue) spider. However, as a breeder I feel it is important to disclose details of the gene to a buyer, weather online or at a show. Take a minute, explain wobble, what it is, etc. I have a decent number of spiders. I have seen absolutely nothing to indicate any issue except the up/down. It does not seem to bother them, hurt them, cause injury, or anything else. As far as mental issues, we need to remember what these are. They are mostly going to operate on instinct, not higher level of thinking. That is how they are designed. As far as the predator will get them point it is completely irrelevant. They are in captivity. If the issue we want to focus on is it own't do as well in the wild that is most morphs (especially any dramatic ones) as the natural camo that a snake relies on is ruined. The survivability goes way down for not looking "normal" as it took nature eons to perfect the "normal" look. If a morph trait was way more desirable in the wild, good chance it passes on and starts to dominate (look at locales for examples of this in many species, such as crotalus - different color look in different areas). 3.) The money. Spider is far from highly profitable. If I thought for a minute it was an issue to the actual well being of a snake, I wouldn't breed spider. Spider is one of the least valuable morphs now as it has been around for a very long time. It does not add lots of money to my projects, or anyone else. I don't breed desert (not to be confused with the completely separate gene desert ghost) or caramel because of issues that I believe do casue quality of life issues. They would be more profitable for me than spider. 4.) All of that being said, I respect your opinion, and that of anyone else who chooses not to work with spider. I think it is a personal choice. I do disagree with pushing opinions on what is right or wrong based on guesses (neuro is a fact, but the it has to bother them some other way too is an assumption supported by no fact). Give the information, about the neuro etc, give both sides, don't assume people are all about the money and bash them, and let folks form their own opinion. Other than that, enjoy. What got me into spider initially was the killer zebra bee axanthic. Definitely not money.
Hey man, I really appreciate that you can disagree with me with being a freak about it. Comments like these make me happy, because even if I don't agree with all your points, it says a lot about your character that you can still discuss things in a reasonable fashion. Thanks for sticking up for me with the head bounce too. I wasn't sure how to respond to those comments. Its a card table so it is rather bouncy, and the snake certainly was not hurt by it. Also, I apologize for the generalization connecting the spider gene to money, I am sure it is certainly possible to be interested in the spider for non-financial. And while I still am not sure the spider should be bred, alerting you customers what the gene is about is certainly better than ignoring it. So, at the end of the day, I still hold my opinion whilst respecting yours. P.S. I haven't heard of your channel before this, but was just checking it out and your dwarf caiman is making me jealous! That's definitely a species I want to keep some day.
Amazing Animal Adventures he is a ton of fun. Currently outgrowing stage 2, so this summer is all about having an indoor pond/bar built to give him his final big boy space and make him easy to view. Should give our channel a watch or two, as well as patreon. We do quite a bit on both, mostly balls, carpets, and rattlesnakes. But opening a reptile zoo soon plus new and exciting filming opportunities.
I was already a fan of your channel, now even more. Great comment! I myself passed an opportunity to get a Pastel Spider because I would be heart broken to see them like that :(
Olympus Reptiles I find it questionable that we are justifying how much of a neurological deficit is okay. Any deficit that is produced consistently in a morph should be considered a failure. If you aren’t breeding healthy animals then why are you doing it. You can’t call an animal with a deficit that could have been prevented healthy. You are just saying they’re healthy enough to justify doing something that isn’t necessary or morally right. This is true in things outside of reptiles as well. We as people need to stop putting our wants over animals lives.
Rachel Carson see my points. It is pretty well explained. Including why. It has no more deficit than an albino. I could explain, but honestly I couldn't do it without becoming snarky so I am just not going too. Again, I respect yours, or anyone's, decision not to work with them. I don't want nor care to change your mind. I am certain you won't change mine as I have a lot of experience with spider. Not shit I read on the internet, but you know, experience. Like real world stuff. So... if you want to have an actual discussion, we can (but not here). If not, then please don't waste my time. I don't have a lot of it free
Thank you for making this video! It’s our responsibility as reptile owners (and buyers) to make sure when we buy a snake, it lives a comfortable, healthy life. Just by virtue of breeding a snake that has these potentially severe neurological issues, you are lowering its quality of life. We wouldn’t breed a dog that has muscle spasms and poor balance just because it’s cute, that’s inhumane. snakes should be viewed the same way. people need to be able to distinguish the difference between what’s neat and what’s fair to the animal. The practice of proper breeding shouldn’t even be that foreign to breeders, you wouldn’t breed two snakes together from the same clutch because you KNOW the health risks involved. why is the spider gene any different? it’s not fair
thankfully someone taking a solid stand on this issue. most breeders (plenty in the comments section) will defend breeding them or deflect to other morphs and other problems. these are breeders who breed balls for profit. they'll say the "quality over quantity" copout, or the "not all spiders have it bad or show it much" agruement. Yet in the end, they KNOWINGLY breed them with brain disorders for money. Otherwise, why would they continue to do it if they did care about the "quality" of the life for the ball?
Thank you for making this video! I haven’t heard about Spiders having issues (until now) but you explained it so well. I love the Spider look but now I’ll only get one if they’re in a rescue!
Amen Sir!!! “We should not sacrifice their mental activity, for paint jobs“. Beautifully said. I wouldn’t buy a pretty car that is not capable of getting me to work in the morning either. And the company that produces said car, wouldn’t be in business for very long If the car didn’t run properly. Lines do have to be drawn sometimes.
What? You can't talk to snakes? This is news to me...no but in all seriousness this is a problem and this is what we did with dogs and it shouldn't happen to snakes
People who defend morphs with genetic defects by saying that they live long lives, eat fine, and breed clearly haven't ever heard about the problems that dog breeders are dealing with. Dog breeds like pugs and bulldogs have all sorts of problems because of breeding for specific traits for to long. Spiders may not be so bad right now but who knows what might happen down the line when other negative genetic traits are combined with the head wobble gene unknowingly. We may be on the road to creating extremely unhealthy animals for our own amusement which isn't fair to the animals at all.
Thank you for making this video! I plan on adopting my first ball python in the near future, and I’ve been curious about the morphs and the differences between them. You have some beautiful snakes btw!
My god... I can't believe people do this... just bcus the snake has a cool and unique pattern, but is a cool pattern really worth your poor snake having such a serious neurological disorder? Such a sad thing.. I wonder if this causes them any pain
I am actually going to stay away from the Spider gene but I made that decision before I watched this video. You opened up some of the same concerns that I have on breeding knowing they are possible defects within that gene(s). I have been redirected to other websites to help me filter out genes with possible defects attached too them. Thanks for the video .
Similarly i get annoyed when my friends call a Pugs heavy breathing adorable. I mean, duuude???? Have you ever had an asthma attack? Because i had something close to it and it was horrible. I can't imagine that being my whole life. "Awh, he is struggling for breath, so cuuute."
Thank you for providing some awareness to this, i've gotten into watching a reptile breeder and also into the possible option of getting a snake as well. Your insight has been very helpful and even if it being a short and simple video, it has helped bring some awareness to me about the spider gene, and hopefully breeders put more focus on producing healthier creatures rather than as you said, sacrifice their health for its look. Much appreciated, thank you!
i thought my bumble was weird but nevertheless i love him. my guy had the wobble when i first got him he doesn't as much anymore. my guy is upside down sometimes but i don't like it. i don't like where the ballpythons are going because we are only looking for paintjobs. great video it really made me think.
I'm sure you're so relieved to hear about the ban on spiders in IHS reptile shows! I can't believe people would actually breed them knowing about the neurological problems. I love animals, and I have some strong ethics when it comes to their best care. I believe only in breeding for health and temperament. Colouring is beautiful to get, but I don't think breeding them for colour and patterns is in the best interest of the animals. Thank you for talking about this! Your video popped in my recommended feed today, probably because I've been hearing some news about the ban. But, so many people are upset about it because "it's such a shame" and "what will they ban next". But, I think banning the showing and sales of these morphs (especially at shows) is a good idea in that it'll discourage breeders from continuing the line of neurological issues. I agree with it not being cute. Your snake not flipping over quickly made me feel so bad for him! And the snake missing its food because of the head wobble just makes me feel like I'm watching the animal equivalent of Parkinson's. I'm happy that it's getting talked about more, and hopefully, we will be seeing fewer spiders and more healthy breeds of snakes.
I’m a woman who has just started doing research on reptiles (I plan on buying a few snakes eventually). I’ve found RUclips to be a great source of info. Thanks so much for your video. I would not even know to look for these neurological issues if I had not seen this video. I can tell there is so much to learn still. I don’t know if you know Emily from Snake Discovery but she seems pretty knowledgeable about reptiles. She and her husband have side jobs rearing and selling reptiles and then going to schools, boys scouts troops, etc. to teach kids about reptiles. She used to be a manager at a Petsmart and I think that’s how she really got involved with reptiles, especially snakes. Please continue to inform us about characteristics of snakes. Pat
I’m kinda new to the ball python game but I agree with you 💯. I’d never sacrifice health/mental health for a profit. I think all breeding of spiders should stop immediately
As someone who isn't experienced at all in terms of BP breeding and genes, but has a 2 year old normal type that I adore, I REALLY appreciate the stance you took and the way you explained everything. It made it easy to follow but weighed pros/cons a bit. Thank you for making such wonderful informational videos
If you're looking to do more research in to BP morphs and genes, I would highly suggest you take a look at many sources and make your own educated decision after that! The info in this video is rather one-sided or speculative in some ways, and simply untrue in others.
A few years back I had a spider ball python named Shilo. I loved him, he was pretty, he ate fine he acted fine, I never knew about the issues with spiders until I saw this video. Shilo died atleast 6 months after we got him, why you may ask, I dont know. I always thought the way he acted clumsy was cute, I never knew about the more serious issues that was going on.
I have a queen bee BP that I bought without the breeder telling me anything about the wobble. I'd heard about head wobbles but wasn't aware that it was tied to certain genes. I learned about it upon doing my research into the history of the morph. I don't feel bad about owning her, though. She does wobble a little, but she's a voracious feeder and she has a really curious personality. She's not suffering, as far as I can tell. She acts the same as all of my other snakes. I respect that some people won't want to work with the spider gene, although it seems spiders are singled out unfairly in light of all the other genetic issues with other morphs as well. Just like scaleless snakes and white snakes, etc, they don't all have to be able to survive in the wild. They're fine in captivity as pets.
100% agree. I believe we need to stop breeding these animals. We always breed animals cause of how they look, it’s really really unfortunate and unfair to the animals.
Thank you for this video. I'm going to be going to the Chicago NARBC convention and I had my heart set on finding a spider to take home as my first ball python because I've been in love with their gorgeous pattern for YEARS. I am so glad I found this video. Snakes, especially ball pythons have LONG been a passion of mine (15ish years. I'm almost 24), but until I started doing my research in earnest the last few weeks to prepare to setup an enclosure and learn more about different snake species to make sure balls were the species I REALLY wanted (and could handle as a total snake novice) I had absolutely no idea of the issues that can come with the spider Gene. But come to think of it I was at a reptile store today pricing out various supplies and I saw a Mojave spider with a DEFINITE head shake but I didn't think much of it since it was young and stretching up as high as it could reach. I figured it was just off balance or something. In the same way as I could never condone cropping of ears and docking of tails in dogs, I can't in good conscience now purchase a spider morph and perpetuate this problem. I would love it if you would talk more about morphs with health and neurological problems. Lord knows I'd watch and share those videos with every snake enthusiast I know. I'm getting long winded here and you probably won't see this anyways but thank you. 💖
My brother used to have tics that forced him to make the same head movement as the snake "wobble" you showed and believe me he was NOT comfortable. Involuntary movements are never cute or fun to have, they even hurt sometimes, and I feel terrible for those snakes.
I think that example brings some good light to the situation. The biggest argument I have heard is "You can't prove they are uncomfortable," or "They don't feel it," and while I may not be able to "prove" it, I can point to evidence like that.
Your brother is a human being with far more brain functions than a snake... snakes run purely off instincts. They have no emotions and far less intellect.
Amazing Animal Adventures now that I think about it, I have too ask you, since the spider gene affects the neurological system in a snake, and make it more susceptible to a predator, so would it really matter? A snake has (hopefully) no predators in its enclosure, and if a snake got out, it could be hunted down by a native hawk, providing a meal, and possibly stoping an invasive species. I know how grim and unlikely it is, but it is something to think about.
Yeah, its a fine line. I just don't think it's ethical to intentionally breed something with unnatural mental deficiencies. True, there's no predators in the tank, but that doesn't mean we should be ok with breeding mentally impaired animals.
Thank you for this video. I have yet to own any ball pythons myself, but for a while I was dead set on getting myself a couple of pretty spiders. The more I look into morphs, the sadder breeding as a whole makes me. I think a lot of people forget that breeding snakes as an industry is just like any other. There will be bad breeders and people who'll lie about genetic issues or outright glorify them because they're "cute". We as pet owners - and future pet owners - have a responsibility to do our research and try to weed out those people so that the animals we're responsible for stay as healthy as possible.
Thank you for the good take. Honestly so many reptile owners seem to want to justify substandard practices because change would be hard. For breeders and people who make their money from the hobby, change would mean losing friends, not going to reptile expos - it would ruin their business. That's the cold hard truth. But not only do they do that, they then spread utter nonsense that denies what scientists are telling us about reptiles - that they are much smarter and have far more complex emotional states than we have been led to believe. It only makes getting the message across harder, and I thank you for doing the right thing in this case. I hope you get a lot more subscribers, your content is amazing!
I have a spinner ball python, I had no idea about any of this. My snake doesn’t show any of the symptoms you talked about/demonstrated that I know of, I just tested to see if he would flip over and he did immediately. I’ve never noticed a head wobble with him either, but that’s just my snake, I musta just got lucky. Thanks for educating me on this so I can start to pay closer attention to him as he grows older. I wish this was more commonly known.
Was gonna get a spider ball python until I watched this. I knew leopard geckos have the enigma syndrome but I never knew spider ball python morphs wobble.
I've been watching Goherping for two weeks now and have seen you in his videos and wondered if you had a channel, I'm so glad I finally found your videos
Yeah I completely agree. If this is hindering the animals life, we should definitely stop producing this morph. Similar to how German Shepard dogs are bred for aesthetics, and end up with horrible hip issues and arthritis, or how Arabian horses have hindered breathing and weak hooves because breeders think it "looks pretty". Also, just out of curiosity, I've heard the spider gene in BPs is due to inbreeding, is that true?
Natatatalatalie Wolff Who's to say the life of these wonderful creatures is being hindered or adding any pressure whatsoever there are a lot of human beings that are born with birth defects and live long productive lives it's not okay to genocide a species just because of your feelings on the topic
The spider wobble isn't due to inbreeding, there has been numerous outcrossings and expanding of the gene pool that if it was because of inbreeding, it would be gone by now. Like Champagne and Woma and all the other wobble genes, it simply is connected to the morph, and not the result of inbreeding.
It different with people because it's a chance with us, but almost a must with animals because you are breeding it into them. Also the defects are more common in animals than us due to breeding. Birth defects with people are usually things that just happen, versus a pug whose children, and children's children are forced to endure a problem with breathing and sometimes not even to give birth on their own (This is mostly a bulldog problem). We've bred these animals to have these problems. If you don't think an animal who has the chance for its own eyeballs to pop out, doesn't have the body function to cool itself down, and can have pinched nostrils making it common to pass out when too excited, isn't being hindered, then I'm not sure what to tell you. This is typical of animals we are mass breeding. Dogs, snakes, certain geckos, etc. These animals are just easier to breed in mass.
I'm actually really surprised how many people don't know about the head-wobble trait. I think most breeders are pretty open about it, and if not, they should be. Still though, it is the purchaser's responsibility to know what they're buying. The head wobble is no secret. I personally don't by any balls with spider in them, but I don't necessarily think breeders should stop breeding them. I wouldn't like seeing my snake act like that, but it doesn't bother other people. If everybody agreed that they shouldnt be produced anymore, then they wouldn't because nobody would be buying them. There isn't a consensus about it though and who is one person to tell someone else what type of pet they can keep or breed. I like that you made a video about the "problems" associated with this gene. The more info out there in the aether, the better. I think it could have been more educational and less authoritarian though. Simply stating it shouldn't be produced anymore without much compelling evidence as to why and saying you shouldn't have to explain why an argument is bad is not the way to change people's minds. It comes of a bit pompous. I'm not trying to be a jerk. I support what you're doing and am trying to offer constructive criticism because I want you to succeed. This video was fine for people who already agree with you or who may have never heard of the head wobble, but I don't think it was strong enough to change anybody's minds who would disagree with your position.
I agree that pugs have it bad but I also think that bulldogs are even worse they literally cannot breed without human intervention, all bulldogs are born cesarian because they’re heads are too big now to pass normal through the birth canal. It would literally kill the mom and puppies... that’s insane to me... how do people look at these animal we have created and see that they are unable to thrive and say “Meh...”
I agree and its great you're putting this out there, as soon as I entered the reptile community I was immediately warned about the spider gene in ball pythons and the enigma gene in leopard geckos. I'm lucky I was around people that taught me why they were bad right off the bat, but many new comers might not be aware of the issue. Getting a first reptile with issues like this would be pretty devasting(to me at least) especially if it was avoidable, my first snake was actually a kenyan sand boa who died at 5 months from a neurological issues(birth defect most likely) and it was stressful and almost ruined having a snake ever again for me so I can imagine. Granted spiders don't usually die early on, but watching your pet struggle like this isn't ever going to be easy and they are going to have more health issues than a different morph that doesn't have any genetic issues right off the bat.
I haven’t bought any of my snakes but I have four ball pythons who carry this Gene, it’s sad to see how they were in their last home, I got one who was rehomed over 5 KNOWN times in less then a year, my spider BP came to me with a dry water bowl and when I gave her water she was drinking for a good 5-8 minutes straight. I got a bumble belly, she was extremely dehydrated, had stuck shed and is now still the size of a hatchling at 2.5 years old, when I got my Bee BP he was very under weight. Now having them all they all eat regularly, rarely miss and meal and have gained a lot of healthy weight! I agree they are beautiful but should not be bred anymore regardless if they show any signs of the wobble
I think it's worth mentioning too, that some snakes with worse wobble whille have trouble striking prey, hurting themselves while striking, or accidentally biting themselves due to the balance problems. I can only imagine that's very stressful to the animal
Maybe we shouldn't breed animals for designer patterns? Hold on while I show you my super pastel spider caramel chocolate champagne albino 8ball acid disco ball volcano python that can't move and has to be hooked up to a ventilator to breathe. But damn does he look cool!
@@damiensamora8137 Why don't you read the myriad of scientific articles out there that show the links between designer breeding and genetic disorders in a variety of different animals. Come back when you have educated yourself on genetics and not just the silly words breeders use to describe pretty colors.
That shows your lack of understanding is there morphs with defects yes but very few compared to the amount of morphs out there and most if not all fatal or severe kinking genes are looked down upon to work on and a very small market for them because of that and there are also guid lines to prevent such awful deformities to be prevented if you did your research without blinding bios you would see that so maybe you should educate yourself before crapping on a whole group of people who love respect and take care of there animals sir
juanthestabber Adding multiple genes together that don’t have issues won’t create an unhealthy animal, they are purely visual. If you breed an animal with problem genes and keep adding more you can end up with issues but it’s stupid to say that just because it has a lot of designer genes that it will inherently unhealthy. I really suggest you do some research on genetics before you make comments like this, it makes you look really uninformed. And the animal you listed wouldn’t be alive as spider and champagne together is lethal, so no one breeds them together. There is nothing wrong with trying to breed a beautiful animal, just because it has ‘mutations’ doesn’t mean it’s unhealthy, people are afraid of things they don’t understand.
@@duncanrobertson1306 Funny how in your attempted rebuttal you listed yet another negative combo, spider/champagne. Its funny how many butthurt breeders and collectors got mad at my comment because it makes them consider the moral implications of their hobby or source of income. Lots of breeders keep breeding the same snakes together with their own offspring. This increases the chances of genetic abnormalities. Animals aren't a canvas to pain on. If you like pretty colors, buy a plastic snake and paint it yourself.
I can't believe some people are arguing that's its not an issue! I just unsubscribed a channel that did a video saying its not a problem! Poor snakes! Instant sub to your channel thanks for sharing great info. Peace love and light to all x
I'm planning on getting my first snake next month. I was even looking at ones with the spider gene. So glad I know about this now. I won't be getting a spider ball python after watching this
Thanks for the video addressing this subject Amazing Animal Adventures, however, without bashing you, let me say that with what you have said here, it is obvious that your experience with the spider gene is limited at best, and while you did show problems with this gene in this video, I could show you the exact opposite, as my spider acts completely normal. So instead of saying "Lets Just Not Breed Them At All", a better thing to say is that in breeding, it should be and needs to be a priority of breeders to try to limit this issue, and always use the philosophy quality over quantity. Thanks for the video, but some of the information and statements you were eluding to simply aren't true.
Before I formulate a response, let me just thank you for responding in an even and polite way, even if you disagree. I value it when people disagree, but still keep their cool instead of just being a jerk. Thanks! So, yes, I cannot argue that my experience with the spider gene is small to say the least. However, owning an animal with the gene has shown my some things I would not have seen before. I agree that limiting the issue should be the priority, but I think the best way to do that is to eliminate the gene. In my mind, if a gene has such an prominent risk, why even dabble? All that it brings us is aesthetics. Is it worth putting the mental/neurological health on the line for something as insignificant as exotic appearances? As I stated, I have no quarrel with morphs when used with wisdom, but I would argue that the spider gene is just not worth the risks, because of its potential. Once again, thanks for discussing this is a rational manner.
Hey Amazing Animal Adventures. Thanks for the response. While I think over all your message to your viewers may have in some ways been beneficial, the biggest problem with you're argument is just that without any very strict laws put into place, there is just no way an act like this is possible. With my ball pythons I always stress quality over quantity, and do that when selecting each and every animal to add to my collection, and stress other people to do the same. When I got my spider, it took me months to find one with the colors, attitude, and the least amount of head wobble possible that I wanted. And while doing so I only ever found one that when doing the flip method, (where you flip the animal upside down and you see that it cannot right itself), could not right itself. One out of like twenty from local breeders near me who have the same philosophy as me and try to get head wobble down as low as possible. If it was a gene like camel albino where basically all of spring are effected in a very negative way, then I would agree with you 100%. But because the spider gene isn't, and because the animal you show has a rare case of this trait, people are coming on and being completely turned away from the spider gene, even though most of the animals when bread properly have little to no demonstrations of these traits. I have seen normal's, champagne's, pastels, and even Mojaves showing the same traits you point out in this video. So I really think it comes down more to the breeding and quality of the snake, and I simply think you made a way to broad and open assumption about all spider ball pythons. I currently only own one, but I have held and had many more in the past, and saw no significant problem as to make me recommend people to never breed them again. Thank you very much for the response.
Some have theorized that the way the spider pattern forms affects how the nerves in the snake form early on in the egg. The incomplete pattern halts nerve development early on in the embryonic stages before stem cells have a chance to differentiate themselves and thus, cause neurological problems.
@@christophersharp7198 Yes you can, it's just that %25 of the offspring (the ones that get two copies of the gene) will either be slugs or die in the egg, or in rare cases hatch a deformed snake that dies very young. The other 75% survive to pass on whatever genes they have. It isn't an inbreeding issue though, because non-spider offspring can go on to produce generations and generations of snakes, none of which get wobble.
I agree with this as I own an enigma leopard gecko morph due to my friend not knowing what the morph entails and was planning on putting her down. Enigmas are much like the spiders but the disorder also comes out in circling and death spins when stressed out. (To enigma owners out there or ones planning to purchase one due to it's very unique patterning, please keep it in it's own separate and simple space WITHOUT lights.) Again, proper breeders know to sell the ones that don't continuously portray the symptoms but that doesn't mean they aren't still there. Mine only shows them when she is stressed, otherwise yours never think something was wrong.
This is an area where the BP community could learn from the mistakes of the dog breeding community. Dogs are all Canis Familiaris. Dog "breeds" are actually more like morphs of the same breed. If you look at certain dog breeds, you'll see severe issues that had been largely ignored for the sake of getting a certain look. German Shepherds are a classic example. GSDs have a lot of joint issues (among other things) now, that were extremely rare at one time. Now GSD breeders are having to go through a lot of headaches to clean up the lines and create dogs with good joint health. The Spider lines are a lot like that. There's where my opinion differs from yours, though. Instead of trying to end the Spider morph (not likely to happen, given how many people are invested in it), it would be better to promote breeding them specifically based on health. Those that don't show signs of neurological issues should be bred while those that do should be left out of breeding programs. It should have been nipped in the bud back in the day but it is what it is. The line can be cleaned up but it's going to take extra work and restraint by responsible breeders. That sounds daunting but it will be a lot more effective than trying to get the entire community to give up the Spider morph completely.
The problem is that it is impossible to breed a healthy bloodline of spider morphs because the same gene that causes the neurological issues is also the one which makes the morph - the spider gene. So even if you breed a spider morph with no head wobble it doesn't mean that its offspring won't have a head wobble. Also, there are many less visible or straight up invisible neurological issues so yeah. A healthy spider morph bloodline is outside the realm of possibilities.
well the breeds also come in color morphs. and some are unacceptable. I am sure if there were to be a reverse dalmation, the dog world would say "no" but I am guessing any black with white spots reptile would be a thing.
Hey there. I knew nothing about ball pythons a week ago then I fell down the rabbit hole into the world of morphs and the first few vids became a flood as the wonderful You Tube algorithms did their job of selecting content . The deeper I went the more the world of the big breeders and their endless search for 'spectacular' colour morph "firsts" was revealed. The spider gene was only ever spoken about as "amazing" for reducing pattern and sharpening up a really graphic dribble design. By this stage I was actually questioning the bio-ethics as I understand the processes of selective breeding with an ignorance of what genes combine with what and wondered about how careful the breeders were being or if the drive to produce incredible and as yet unseen colour contrasts had superseded any concerns for the biological integrity of the physiology of the snakes being manipulated. Yours is the FIRST clip I have come across to highlight and discuss these bioethical travesties. I remember one breeder mentioned head wobble in passing (without showing an example) but minimised it as a non-issue. Good on you for calling attention to this very real and disturbing practise of selective manipulation for profit. Feline breeders (American) were breeding Persian cats so their noses (velvets) were positioned so high (between the eyes) that the animals started to sound like pug dogs and experience respiratory distress and eye infections, all to make the cats look "cuter". There is a word I can't stand ! Anyway some veterinarians were having major issues with this but not enough to stop the practise. I really wonder at the behavioural pathology of people who work with animals and put profit or appearance before the biological 'health' of any animal. Keep calling these fuckers out. There are quite a few breeders who use You Tube to promulgate their snake breeding and you can reach a lot of people and INFLUENCE them too. Public awareness especially among the herp fans will help to spread the word. Target the breeders too and the big annual snake breeders conferences ... Comment or send clips of your snakes obvious neurological damage and hold them accountable. Go to mainstream media and publicise this issue. Even non herp freaks will be interested. I had never even realised this insidious consequence even existed or how unregulated the explosion of backyard selective breeding in ball pythons was. Hassle pet shops too that are selling spiders with issues. It is just wrong. Keep up the effort. Thank you for posting.
A warning to everyone: Brian from BHB Reptiles is someone who is very pro spider. He acknowledges the issues and says because we can't speak to them we shouldn't assume they're in pain. He thinks we should keep producing because they're beautiful and while he doesn't say it, he clearly cares more about making a profit than about the snake.
Thank you so much for making this video. I had no idea that spider morphs had this problem. Intentionally breeding am animal with a disability like that is uncontainable. Again, thank you so much for helping bring this to light. I know you are not the first; but you are the first that I have seen to mention head wobble and issues with righting themselves without adding the “its not that bad” spin to it. Congrats for being companionate to these beautiful features who rely on us to care for and protect them from preventable hardships and issues such as this.
No one will ever get through to that man. Ever. Because most of the people who watch him know nothing about snakes (like myself). And most of those people praise him for educating the public on the "right" way to own reptiles (oh and let's not forget being so positive, if you say anything constructive people legit call you a bully or troll). They reinforce that he's "helping ohhh so much" and I swear the dude literally thinks he's the Stephen Hawking of repitle keeping. UGH I cannot believe his setup for many of the animals OH AND the friggin clickbait. Can't stand that guy after watching other reptile/snake owners/lovers/breeders.
Rej209 He does do a good job at education and reaching out to kids, and he seems to really care for his animals. But I agree sometimes the enclosures the animals are in are lacking. But as a breeder he has to cut costs to earn a profit
Down side to "not buying" means more than 50% of all ball pythons would come to an end. It's not an issue cause the snake is in captivity and doesn't need to survive but the original spider bp was a wild cought animal so the gene obviously wasn't that much of a draw back. Head wobble also shows up in other genes and as with any "freak gene" there is going to be a drawback. Weather it's what we can notice or not... And no, I don't deal with ball pythons as far as breeding. This is a no win, the spider gene is the most widespread mutation now and ever to happen with ball pythons. I'm on your side with this from a point of morals, but people are too attracted attractive to that reduced pattern and high blushing white sides. I honestly think over time all ball pythons are gonna encounter the spider gene at some point.
I was given a snake last December by a coworker of mine who couldn’t care for her anymore. She’s a spider. I’ve had her a year and a half now and rarely notice her wobble, but I kept hearing that spiders had a wobble and never thought much into it. This video really opened my eyes a lot more
Better question, why focus on balls to begin with? I get it if it's your first snake but TBH, they are pretty boring compared to most other snakes. Hognoses for example are a million times the personality and take food as much as you want to feed them.
Couldn’t agree more mate! We have the same happening here in Australia with Jaguar carpet pythons It seems we are headed the same direction as dogs where every “breed” of reptile will come with its own inherit genetic issues, which is a very sad thought
Quick disclaimer: I have a spider ball python only because he is a rescue. Watch the video for information about why rescuing spiders is not only ok, but can actually help with the problem.
Amazing Animal Adventures glad you did a small amount of research on the spider ball python Gene although it's unfortunate you're slandering the spider genetic you should probably stay a hobbyist your experience should be much more if you're trying to be a educator
Do you have any idea about who I am or how long I've worked with reptiles? You disagree with me and are therefore assuming my experience is minimal.
Oh shit where did you study herpetology? Id like to find out how you concluded that it is a neurological issue. Oh whats that? Some dude on the internet said it was? Gotcha thats all i need to know about your experience.
You don't know shit. Stay a hobbyist
It's a domesticated snake artards(crutches hand shakes vigorously whilst moaning) if the snake is not suffering and eats like a champ(spiders are notorious food mongers) then why you pissing you panties? Shouldn't people be more concerned about the thousands of other species of animals that suffer for our fucking amusement? Or are you gunna pick apart one select, subjective and honestly pointless argument? Shut the fuck up, I get it if you think it's wrong to breed a weird trait then I think it's wrong for your ugly asses to be produced.
It's sick that people would actually think the head wobble is cute. That's like going up to a human with a disability and telling them that their disability is cute.
TheHPExperiment
People do but I'm pretty sure what's just a facade of "being nice" and being overall disingenuous.
People also think bulging eyes/sounds of not being able to breathe in brachycephalic dogs is cute.
I commented on a video about a rabbit who is having a seizure-- I know this because both of my own rabbits have seizures-- & the amount of backlash I got was astounding. No, it's not cute, it's a serious medical issue.
I'm disappointed that we refuse to see pain for what it is & treat it appropriately, whether it be snake, dog or bunny. It really hurts my heart. These aren't display items. They are living, feeling beings.
The snake doesn't know it has any kind of disability. As far as it knows it's living a normal life
This video is like going up to a person with a genetic condition and telling them they shouldn't breed
i think snakes are little understood, you can't say it's "sick" like the people who say that are perverse and callous or something, this is the first time i'm hearing of this, and maybe the people who say that don't know much about snakes beyond how to take basic care of them, having affection for excentricities the snake presents in its behaviour isn't sick, they probably don't know its due to some neurological problem in line with their morph
Who else was just watching Sheila go off the table the whole time?
me
Me but it my head it was more of if i am not the center of attention then i am out of here lol by the why i Ruined the sad music -=-
I had a miniature poodle who had seizures related to inbreeding. I spent years taking care of him and that look in his eyes just before a seizure is something I will never be able to forget. No animals should suffer because our aesthetic preference.
Yeah it comes as a responsibility from the breeders and the customers. I have a toy poodle. I bought her from a registered breeder, her mum and dad were DNA and prp tested and I met the mum and dad and I know that she is good. Gotta really do research when it comes to living creatures
I'm sorry. Growing up I had a cocker spaniel that had seizures we ended up having to put him down they got so bad. It's never easy to see an anime suffer and it's never easy to put then down to put an end to the suffering.
@@mrwrldwide6351 lies. We can tell when our dog has a seziure...by her bulging eyes...or she'll begin to wobble and lay down. She's a big sweetie we love her alot. But her seziures happen with noise...such as a big loud crash or thunder.
I feel that. My toy poodle died from what i believe were siezures. She was 17 though, so i mean she was getting old too. But it was heartbreaking. After a few siezures she eventually she couldn't walk and would just defecate on herself. I was a kid and home alone for the week when it happened too. I kept her clean and kept helping her eat and drink the best i could until she died in her sleep. Our other poodle suffers from seveeeeere night terrors. Almost every night he wakes himself up screaming like something is eating him alive. Its the craziest noise ive ever heard any dog make. Its heartbreaking, but also incredibly annoying since its been almost nightly for years now.
Calling a head wobble cute is like telling someone with epilepsy that it's cute when they have a seizure.
They're not bobbing their head up and down like a puppy or a parrot for attention.
Yeah it's cute to see a derpy silly snake. And yeah you can argue that they're not in the wild so it does t matter if they're upside down or not because they're safe.
Someone who has to wear a helmet because of their seizures is safe from hitting their head. But it's still not okay. It's still not cute.
Anon Ymous lmao I would say it
I completely agree with you. This morph should not be produced. You should not sacrifice an animal's well-being just because it looks pretty.
Its just like pugs, they have loads of breathing problems but they are being bred just for their looks :c
TheHPExperiment spiders do not suffer a lower quality of life than any other ball python. Spiders eat, poop, shed and breed just like any other ball python with no issues.
If ball python enthusiasts felt that their spiders were suffering in any way, they would not be bred. Not to mention that balls being the finicky snakes that they are, don't eat or breed if they are not happy or well. The multitude of spiders that exists, proves that the spider doesn't think that it has an issue.
@@daryla7825 well someone born with a disability won't know they have a disability if it is bad enough.
@@daryla7825 Jags eat and breed just fine they are also infamous for having neuro i've seen snakes with not so
great levels of neuro/torticolis and they will still eat and breed just fine it doesn't make it ok to breed them
TheHPExperiment it’s sad, they’ve been doing it with dogs for over a century now.. breeding them to get the “perfect breed”
Also, in addition, this issue is in other species too. Lemon frost leopard geckos who always develop tumors, Dogs like pugs that can't breathe, Scottish folds that look cute but get arthritis at three years due to bone deformities, and breeders mass produce them also. Try breathing through a straw for 5 minutes, that's how pugs feel all the time. And did you know every single Scottish fold breeder who was offered a free x-ray to prove their cats weren't in pain refused? Sorry long comment, bad breeders for aesthetic and "cuteness" is a big passion of mine. I need to stop myself from talking about this now or I'll keep going on.
Yeah the problem is definitely not only in ball pythons.
And Dragon Scale Bettas! They are at higher risk of developing tumors and are very prone to dragon or diamond eye, which is when scales or pigment grows over their eyes and it will partially blind or totally blind them.
Yeah.... In general, while I think it's okay to get a pet that's healthy and fits your "aesthetic", there's a place it should stop. I even think this with docking an animal's ear or tail. If there's a possible infection? Definitely! Surgery makes sense with some of those cases! But.... Just for looks? No. If it hurts them, you shouldn't do it
Even in the rabbit world there are breeders specifically for undesirable traits. Dwarfism, shortened snout, dragging ears as long as the body, so much weight it strains the body, albinism, long fur...
It's upsetting. As far as I know my own bunnies are sound-- decent head shape (they breathe easy), fur length (they won't overheat & can see what they are doing), weight.
I'm very conscious of the ethics of rabbit breeding, but I still find myself wanting a Flemish giant-- can be 20+lbs. I will never let myself purchase one unless it is a rescue, but my even my own kindhearted mind still tries to justify it as 'not being that bad'. I understand the struggle. The mind can justify just about anything. It's tough when you really want X animal & you know you will definitely give it a loving home. But part of being an adult is doing research & having self-control, isn't it?
It's a sticky wicket.
Also, I didn't know that Scottish folds were broken. Could you explain more about this?
Pugs can be bred back to have longer noses and other less extreme anatomy. Unfortunately, it's pretty hard to find a breeder doing that
Finally someone who appreciates morphs for their beauty and diversity, but also understands the repercussions of irresponsible breeding! SOO many morph haters see this as a "black and white" issue, meaning you either love morphs or hate em', but I totally agree, sacrificing well being for aesthetics is so horrible.
I agree. There seems to be the camp of "only wildtypes" and then the camp of "most crazy morphed animal possible." As with all things though, I think morphs can be enjoyed, as long as applied with moderation and responsibility.
"Girl where do you think you're going. Girl no" my relationship with my banana BP Elliot in a nutshell haha. But hey thank you for making this video, I had no idea that this was happening and I'm so glad I'm aware of it now.
Could not agree more! 👍🏻 same issue with dogs like pugs for example. We've drastically negatively impacted their health for our own aesthetic preferences. An animals health should never be sacrificed for anything; especially not for human preferences for their appearance.
I definitely don't know enough about snakes to argue whether or not the spider gene is responsible for heath issues, but regardless I think your point as a whole is a very important one.
Hana Kellogg And cats like Persians; they have breathing issues too.
I agree. I have a normal ball python and I think they look soo pretty. :)
My cousin is a total cunt to people who tell her that pugs are shouldn't continue to be bred because she thinks they r cute. Her pug doesnt look like a normal pug amd is huge. Its disturbing
My dog is a teacup poodle and is only two pounds. As you could imagine, she had A LOT of problems.
Actually went to school with and was friends with a girl who had (and still has) a pug. When i talked to her a couple of years ago (I think we were about 18) about dogs and the health problems dog breeds such as pugs face, she flat out denied them and told me that this was "false" and "these kinds of dogs, including hers, were just fine". Even though her dog would frequently make these snoring sounds (especially when running) and even though she had said herself that she had to make sure her dog was in the shade or had a bath during the spring/summer to prevent it from having a heat stroke from just taking a walk.
I saw a young ball python doing a severe head wobble in a reptile shop once and I had no idea what was going on with it. Since I've never owned a snake, I thought it was just something that snakes did that you don't hear about. Had no idea it was a neurological disorder. Poor thing. Great video. Thank you for the information.
I wanted a spider ball python, until I learned that they are the ones with shakey heads (and other things wrong with them).
It's like what we're doing to dogs, making their skull so deformed that they have breathing problems. Making their backs so slopped that they'll have hip problems early on. Having such short legs and a long body that they'll have back problems, etc.
I think spider ball pythons are different than pugs who can barely breath. most spider ball pythons can eat fine. how ever the more severe ones that are always cork screwing should obviously not be bred because thats just a constant suffering.
You: "Youre exposing your soft underbelly" *pok pok pok*
Sven: ":3 ?"
I know the issue isn't funny that just made me snort. Now I have to go flip my killer bee. He is known to corkscrew a lot and tips his head back all the way upside down. Very very irresponsible to the initial breeder for loosing them to the reptile world. Which is a shame.. Bees are my favorite
I know! They are so pretty and it makes me wish they were healthy animals. The world is cruel sometimes.
The worst thing about being upside down for a long time in a reptile is that they can choke and have internal organs issues for that. I think exactly the same with Enigma and Lemon Frost leopard geckos. I've discovered your channel few days ago and I love it👍.
As someone who loves the spider morph im glad I found out a few months ago about their issues. It changed my mind about ever buying one. If one ever ended up in my care due to a rehome or other circumstance I would be happy but I don't feel okay buying spiders from even reputable breeders because its the gene that causes a lot of the issues.
I worked at a chain pet store (it was hell. Never buy any animal from Petco or smart.) We got a spider that just. Did not eat. Starved itself to death. Another spider constantly "stargazed" just looked up and would flip over, like he thought he was going straight. It got so skinny because it obviously couldn't eat. Was just skin and bones at that point. He was returned to the breeder. Probably put in a freezer. Sigh.
Ri Dragon they don't Start gaze all the time, the conditions that animal were kept in were most likely the reason it did that all the time, "if it actually did" but the reason that animal did not eat is becuase at those afor mention "pet store". I've "adopted" and raised countless snakes from those stores and the problem every single time is that they do not feed live food. almost every baby Ball Python mainly any under 400 grams will ONLY EAT LIVE
What the hell are you talking about? Almost any ball python of any age can and will eat f/t. Plenty of breeders use them by default and even the babies that don't eat f/t will eventually do so, once they have a healthy feeding response. And what do neurological defects have to do with eating live or f/t? The actual nervous system of the snake is deformed. Husbandry can help sometimes, but it's clear you just LIKE spiders and LIKE feeding live.
Do you actually understand the scientific mechanism behind wobble genes and neurological disorder? If you did, you'd understand that feeding live will do NOTHING to change it. The damage is done very early in the snakes gestation and is permanent.
Many pet stores keep the pythons in unfavorable conditions which stresses them and causes them to not eat. Especially if the snake was stargazing all the time, it seems simple to suggest it was terribly stressed which contributed to it going off feed. Hatchling balls are sometimes more picky are require live food to kick start their appetite, but then quickly switch to f/t. If the breeder never made the switch to f/t before selling to the pet store, that could have also been part of the problem.
I agree with all of this, but none of it addresses the problems with wobble morphs. It's important to remember that low wobble parents can and do produce debilitated offspring, and vice versa.
Yeah that's true, Claire, it seems mostly impossible to predict whether or not offspring will show a lot of wobble or not very much just by looking at the parents. Some people do say that pairing two snakes with bad wobble has more chance for bad wobble, but I don't think much research has been done on that side, because most breeders avoid pairing animals that have a severe example of the condition.
I was mostly pointing out to Ri Dragon that it probably had little to nothing to do with the snake being a spider that it was stressed at the pet store and wouldn't eat. That kind of thing happens to all kinds of morphs in bad conditions.
I agree with you on this! You are one of the few people I've seen do a video on this topic that has come out and stated that we as humans can't assume that just because they can eat and breed that they are comfortable. Most people just kind of dismiss the distinct possibility that they may be suffering in other ways even if they aren't in pain.
I have a movement disorder and although that condition doesn't cause me pain in the usual sense there are time when I am miserable with it because my muscles have to work about 10 times as hard as people who don't have this condition.
My brain sends faulty signals to my muscles at times. Sometimes it's almost unnoticable, but then there are other times (weeks and even months at a time) when it is exhausting just to be alive and making the slightest movement makes me feel like I have over-exercised really badly. This can and does affect my neck. In fact as I'm typing now I have such exhaustion in my neck muscles when holding my head upright that I have to prop my chin up on my elbowl to continue functioning. I am bedbound by the way because just so much as going out to a doctor's appointment for a few hours in a wheelchair is nearly unbearable for my neck and core sitting upright. If my neck is not supported for more than a short time then I am really uncomfortable. This is how I imagine Spiders must feel and then they probably feel dizzy on top of it. They just don't have the ability to communicate it to us. I think it's a pretty close approximation to certain movement disorders in humans!
Although I like the look of certain Spider combos I think there are other ways to achieve that look using morphs that have more stable genetics like the Woma for instance or Extreme gene. Great topic! I hope you'll do more videos like this! Panda Pieds and their genetic defects would be another good topic to do in the future. I have seen some horribly kinked babies and it's really sad to see them suffer and die often within 48 hours of coming out of the egg. There are safer ways to create the look of those too if breeders are creative.
Wow, thanks for sharing your perspective, that's powerful stuff. I think it really sheds some light on what I was trying to say, regarding our unawareness of what these animals may be experiencing. Hang in there!
Amazing Animal Adventures, no it doesn't. His issues cause him to be bed bound, whereas the spider issue doesn't hinder the spider in any form or manner from enjoying a normal life no different from any other ball python.
but how exactly do we know this? how do we know if the spider is enjoying life?
This! I have neurological issues of my own that get 10x worse when I'm stressed to where my muscles either twitch randomly whether I am awake or asleep, to looking like advanced Parkinson's when it's really bad and walking even being difficult. Despite this I keep up an active life, work full time, and have 11 bunnies to care for at home. My disorder doesn't cause me pain or keep me from living my life (usually) but it can make it pretty miserable when my twitching muscles make me drop things or "flinch" away from my husband. usually it's not any more disruptive to my life than the head shake appears to be for spider morphs but that doesn't make it any less awful to live with 24/7.
I wouldn't doubt that you're right about what the snakes might be dealing with. I have minor motor tics and they are not painful in and of themselves but I can feel the wear and tear the incorrect movement puts on my body.
Sadly as an aside, Woma also causes wobble
Bro, I appreciate you so much for making this video. I have a bumblebee ball python, and just a year after owning her I was really confused by her movements. Of course I went to google first. Everyone pretty much told said not to worry about it. I continued to see it, and it continued to alarm me. Some of the things you showed in this video are things that just from knowing my snake I’ve clearly noticed, but didn’t necessarily associate with the same issue. After watching this video so many things are clear as day. I wish more people took the approach you did. In addition to the things you mentioned maybe one or two nights a month in the middle of the night I will hear my snake fall. I always ask myself, why is my snake falling. It was really a result of her doing the wobble is so high in the cage, then losing her balance and falling to the floor. It’s kind of sad want to really realize it. Thanks for educating us all!
Same! I have a firebumblebee and hes had all sorts of problems with feeding and is way more active than any ball python I know. I was constantly worried about him for the longest time until I got a tarantula from someone who was starting to breed ball pythons that explained to me what was going on. I'll love my baby forever&the best I can though, regardless of the wobble probs
I have a normal pastel and it does the same thing
I really appreciate your comment about boycotting breeding of poor genes. It rings true for every species.
While I do think every life is sacred, buying them to save them is not as noble as some may think. Buying animals from poor breeders or mills does simply show them there is enough demand to make the practice profitable, and creates more animals with a quality of life that would be undesirable for most of us humans.
Generally, I don't support most breeding practices and put emphasis on rescue, rehoming, and rehabilitation. (If you do buy from breeders, it doesn't make you a bad person, just do all your research and know exactly what you're getting into.) But for those of you who wish to stop these kinds of breeding practices, simply do not buy from these breeders, and encourage others to follow your example.
I actually didn't know that this was a big issue, however my yellow spider (who looks pretty similar to your yellow spider there) has that same... neuralgic challenged problem there. She wobbles really hard and goes upside down all the time, and it makes me really nervous because I think she's hurt or going to get hurt. I love her to death, and she's not aggressive, but I'm getting off topic.
I'll keep this in mind, and I'm most defiantly not going to buy another spider. They sure look hella cool, but the defects are... just cruel in my opinion. Thank you for sharing and I'm glad you expressed your opinion about this. :)
Thank you for addressing this issue. I completely agree with you on the Spider gene. I have a Pewter Bee (has Spider gene) that shows signs of a neurological defect. I did not learn about this condition until after I bought her. She does the "upside down" thing and occasionally gets the feeding wobble when she is super hungry. Almost like, the more excited she gets the worse it is. I love her and wouldn't give her up for anything, but I would certainly NEVER breed her. Poor little guys don't deserve that.
it was good to see a vid like this! there's been a bit of drama in the australian reptile hobby recently over the ethics of the jaguar gene in carpet pythons (produces similar neuro issues to spider) and some people really don't want to address the issue. it's good to see that there's some discussion in america that puts the animal's welfare first.
I fucking love ur hair. You are a very beautiful man
Why thank you.
@Aj Fioritti Don't be jealous dickhead. He got a complement, you didn't.
Aj Fioritti dick head
@Aj Fioritti damn u really dont have a life
+
I had NO idea about this issue. Thank you so much by making this video!
You had no idea because you did no research there are plenty of videos and information on the gene via the web. The best video is by balls2u its a 2 part video explaining the spider gene and the percentages of the wobble which none of these anti spider videos offer. Because they dont want you to know that the percentage is very low. They are doing it for views and subs and in alot of cases using Brian Barczyks name to gain extra views. Dont believe me go to each page and look at the amount of views for a regular video compared to their spider video its alot i mean way more.
Uf, I thought that my bumblebee enchi (Contains spider genes) was completely fine and that the head wobble was normal but now I know that it's not normal :v thx for letting me know I guess? I also observed that he rarely catches his prey in 1 strike, he normally misses a lot of times...
“Where are you going? Girl no”
2:02
Bye Sheila :I
:/
I just wanted to let you know I have shared this video in about 7 snake forums. As well as the comment section in Brian Barczyk’s assine video he made a few days ago, minimizing the issues with spiders.
Anyone who has watched your video has said it is spot on and the best commentary that sums up the whys and hows of the spider debate. I love it, couldn’t say it better myself. Which why I don’t, I just post a link to your video.
Thank you for all your do!
THANK YOU. I cant believe people still think that spider morphs are okay.
PREACH
you earned my sub, hopefully something is done about this gene. i really wish people would see how horrible and depressing it is to watch these creatures flop and wobble.
1.) lets cut the guy a bit of slack at the 310 minute mark. It looks harder than I am sure it probably is, and I don't think he had any intent etc. to harm that snake, nor did he. I have had similar complaints just because I picked up a snake too fast, etc. Pretty obvious he cares for the animals.
2.) The spider gene. Anyone who knows me, knows I am a fan. And I do breed (and will continue) spider. However, as a breeder I feel it is important to disclose details of the gene to a buyer, weather online or at a show. Take a minute, explain wobble, what it is, etc. I have a decent number of spiders. I have seen absolutely nothing to indicate any issue except the up/down. It does not seem to bother them, hurt them, cause injury, or anything else. As far as mental issues, we need to remember what these are. They are mostly going to operate on instinct, not higher level of thinking. That is how they are designed. As far as the predator will get them point it is completely irrelevant. They are in captivity. If the issue we want to focus on is it own't do as well in the wild that is most morphs (especially any dramatic ones) as the natural camo that a snake relies on is ruined. The survivability goes way down for not looking "normal" as it took nature eons to perfect the "normal" look. If a morph trait was way more desirable in the wild, good chance it passes on and starts to dominate (look at locales for examples of this in many species, such as crotalus - different color look in different areas).
3.) The money. Spider is far from highly profitable. If I thought for a minute it was an issue to the actual well being of a snake, I wouldn't breed spider. Spider is one of the least valuable morphs now as it has been around for a very long time. It does not add lots of money to my projects, or anyone else. I don't breed desert (not to be confused with the completely separate gene desert ghost) or caramel because of issues that I believe do casue quality of life issues. They would be more profitable for me than spider.
4.) All of that being said, I respect your opinion, and that of anyone else who chooses not to work with spider. I think it is a personal choice. I do disagree with pushing opinions on what is right or wrong based on guesses (neuro is a fact, but the it has to bother them some other way too is an assumption supported by no fact). Give the information, about the neuro etc, give both sides, don't assume people are all about the money and bash them, and let folks form their own opinion. Other than that, enjoy.
What got me into spider initially was the killer zebra bee axanthic. Definitely not money.
Hey man, I really appreciate that you can disagree with me with being a freak about it. Comments like these make me happy, because even if I don't agree with all your points, it says a lot about your character that you can still discuss things in a reasonable fashion. Thanks for sticking up for me with the head bounce too. I wasn't sure how to respond to those comments. Its a card table so it is rather bouncy, and the snake certainly was not hurt by it.
Also, I apologize for the generalization connecting the spider gene to money, I am sure it is certainly possible to be interested in the spider for non-financial.
And while I still am not sure the spider should be bred, alerting you customers what the gene is about is certainly better than ignoring it.
So, at the end of the day, I still hold my opinion whilst respecting yours.
P.S. I haven't heard of your channel before this, but was just checking it out and your dwarf caiman is making me jealous! That's definitely a species I want to keep some day.
Amazing Animal Adventures he is a ton of fun. Currently outgrowing stage 2, so this summer is all about having an indoor pond/bar built to give him his final big boy space and make him easy to view. Should give our channel a watch or two, as well as patreon. We do quite a bit on both, mostly balls, carpets, and rattlesnakes. But opening a reptile zoo soon plus new and exciting filming opportunities.
I was already a fan of your channel, now even more. Great comment! I myself passed an opportunity to get a Pastel Spider because I would be heart broken to see them like that :(
Olympus Reptiles I find it questionable that we are justifying how much of a neurological deficit is okay. Any deficit that is produced consistently in a morph should be considered a failure. If you aren’t breeding healthy animals then why are you doing it. You can’t call an animal with a deficit that could have been prevented healthy. You are just saying they’re healthy enough to justify doing something that isn’t necessary or morally right. This is true in things outside of reptiles as well. We as people need to stop putting our wants over animals lives.
Rachel Carson see my points. It is pretty well explained. Including why. It has no more deficit than an albino. I could explain, but honestly I couldn't do it without becoming snarky so I am just not going too. Again, I respect yours, or anyone's, decision not to work with them. I don't want nor care to change your mind. I am certain you won't change mine as I have a lot of experience with spider. Not shit I read on the internet, but you know, experience. Like real world stuff. So... if you want to have an actual discussion, we can (but not here). If not, then please don't waste my time. I don't have a lot of it free
bruhayan barchekyk
the rare goherping comment with 1 like and no replies
@@boiledratgaming 5 likes, two replies. We're getting there
3 comments and 7 likes
@@cr6539 4 comments and 10 likes
17 likes and 5 comments let’s gooo
its like people breeding pugs or bull dogs...
Thankfully snake breeding hasn't gone that far yet... Then again snakes are much more simple, so this is starting to be equivalent to that.
Meridia's Bacon yet lol
Or the Chihuahuas with that awful shivering.....
😢
Thank you for making this video! It’s our responsibility as reptile owners (and buyers) to make sure when we buy a snake, it lives a comfortable, healthy life. Just by virtue of breeding a snake that has these potentially severe neurological issues, you are lowering its quality of life. We wouldn’t breed a dog that has muscle spasms and poor balance just because it’s cute, that’s inhumane. snakes should be viewed the same way. people need to be able to distinguish the difference between what’s neat and what’s fair to the animal. The practice of proper breeding shouldn’t even be that foreign to breeders, you wouldn’t breed two snakes together from the same clutch because you KNOW the health risks involved. why is the spider gene any different? it’s not fair
thank you so much for addressing this issue. I can't believe that this isn't more well known among reptile hobbyists and otherwise. Awesome job!!!
i had no idea this is even a problem. thank you so much for making this! getting my first BP (6 m/o) this week. so so excited!!
thankfully someone taking a solid stand on this issue. most breeders (plenty in the comments section) will defend breeding them or deflect to other morphs and other problems. these are breeders who breed balls for profit. they'll say the "quality over quantity" copout, or the "not all spiders have it bad or show it much" agruement. Yet in the end, they KNOWINGLY breed them with brain disorders for money. Otherwise, why would they continue to do it if they did care about the "quality" of the life for the ball?
Thank you for making this video! I haven’t heard about Spiders having issues (until now) but you explained it so well. I love the Spider look but now I’ll only get one if they’re in a rescue!
Amen Sir!!! “We should not sacrifice their mental activity, for paint jobs“. Beautifully said. I wouldn’t buy a pretty car that is not capable of getting me to work in the morning either. And the company that produces said car, wouldn’t be in business for very long If the car didn’t run properly. Lines do have to be drawn sometimes.
What? You can't talk to snakes? This is news to me...no but in all seriousness this is a problem and this is what we did with dogs and it shouldn't happen to snakes
People who defend morphs with genetic defects by saying that they live long lives, eat fine, and breed clearly haven't ever heard about the problems that dog breeders are dealing with. Dog breeds like pugs and bulldogs have all sorts of problems because of breeding for specific traits for to long. Spiders may not be so bad right now but who knows what might happen down the line when other negative genetic traits are combined with the head wobble gene unknowingly. We may be on the road to creating extremely unhealthy animals for our own amusement which isn't fair to the animals at all.
Thank you for making this video! I plan on adopting my first ball python in the near future, and I’ve been curious about the morphs and the differences between them. You have some beautiful snakes btw!
Thank you!
My god... I can't believe people do this... just bcus the snake has a cool and unique pattern, but is a cool pattern really worth your poor snake having such a serious neurological disorder? Such a sad thing.. I wonder if this causes them any pain
I am actually going to stay away from the Spider gene but I made that decision before I watched this video. You opened up some of the same concerns that I have on breeding knowing they are possible defects within that gene(s). I have been redirected to other websites to help me filter out genes with possible defects attached too them. Thanks for the video .
I have a spider ball but she has a pretty severe case. It kills me to see how she acts sometimes. They should not purposely breed them. It’s awful
Similarly i get annoyed when my friends call a Pugs heavy breathing adorable. I mean, duuude???? Have you ever had an asthma attack? Because i had something close to it and it was horrible. I can't imagine that being my whole life. "Awh, he is struggling for breath, so cuuute."
Thank you for providing some awareness to this, i've gotten into watching a reptile breeder and also into the possible option of getting a snake as well. Your insight has been very helpful and even if it being a short and simple video, it has helped bring some awareness to me about the spider gene, and hopefully breeders put more focus on producing healthier creatures rather than as you said, sacrifice their health for its look.
Much appreciated, thank you!
*Looks at snakes on screen and reaches for them*
My mom was looking into getting a ball python and I told her to not support the spider morph, and I sent her this. She's watching it right now
i thought my bumble was weird but nevertheless i love him.
my guy had the wobble when i first got him he doesn't as much anymore.
my guy is upside down sometimes but i don't like it.
i don't like where the ballpythons are going because we are only looking for paintjobs.
great video it really made me think.
I'm glad! And yeah, like I said, all we can do is love the ones that we already have, so definitely not trying to discourage you from loving your boy!
I'm sure you're so relieved to hear about the ban on spiders in IHS reptile shows! I can't believe people would actually breed them knowing about the neurological problems. I love animals, and I have some strong ethics when it comes to their best care. I believe only in breeding for health and temperament. Colouring is beautiful to get, but I don't think breeding them for colour and patterns is in the best interest of the animals. Thank you for talking about this!
Your video popped in my recommended feed today, probably because I've been hearing some news about the ban. But, so many people are upset about it because "it's such a shame" and "what will they ban next". But, I think banning the showing and sales of these morphs (especially at shows) is a good idea in that it'll discourage breeders from continuing the line of neurological issues. I agree with it not being cute. Your snake not flipping over quickly made me feel so bad for him! And the snake missing its food because of the head wobble just makes me feel like I'm watching the animal equivalent of Parkinson's. I'm happy that it's getting talked about more, and hopefully, we will be seeing fewer spiders and more healthy breeds of snakes.
i'm really glad you got more than a "few thousand views". you deserve it
I really was not expecting this to get so many!
I’m a woman who has just started doing research on reptiles (I plan on buying a few snakes eventually). I’ve found RUclips to be a great source of info. Thanks so much for your video. I would not even know to look for these neurological issues if I had not seen this video. I can tell there is so much to learn still. I don’t know if you know Emily from Snake Discovery but she seems pretty knowledgeable about reptiles. She and her husband have side jobs rearing and selling reptiles and then going to schools, boys scouts troops, etc. to teach kids about reptiles. She used to be a manager at a Petsmart and I think that’s how she really got involved with reptiles, especially snakes. Please continue to inform us about characteristics of snakes. Pat
I’m kinda new to the ball python game but I agree with you 💯. I’d never sacrifice health/mental health for a profit. I think all breeding of spiders should stop immediately
But then.... they will die out...
Btw there is a guy that fuckin made scaless snakes.
As someone who isn't experienced at all in terms of BP breeding and genes, but has a 2 year old normal type that I adore, I REALLY appreciate the stance you took and the way you explained everything. It made it easy to follow but weighed pros/cons a bit. Thank you for making such wonderful informational videos
Yay! I hope you enjoy some other videos of mine!
If you're looking to do more research in to BP morphs and genes, I would highly suggest you take a look at many sources and make your own educated decision after that! The info in this video is rather one-sided or speculative in some ways, and simply untrue in others.
A few years back I had a spider ball python named Shilo. I loved him, he was pretty, he ate fine he acted fine, I never knew about the issues with spiders until I saw this video. Shilo died atleast 6 months after we got him, why you may ask, I dont know. I always thought the way he acted clumsy was cute, I never knew about the more serious issues that was going on.
If he acted and ate fine its very unlikely it was due to the spider gene. there was probably other issues at hand.
I have a queen bee BP that I bought without the breeder telling me anything about the wobble. I'd heard about head wobbles but wasn't aware that it was tied to certain genes. I learned about it upon doing my research into the history of the morph. I don't feel bad about owning her, though. She does wobble a little, but she's a voracious feeder and she has a really curious personality. She's not suffering, as far as I can tell. She acts the same as all of my other snakes. I respect that some people won't want to work with the spider gene, although it seems spiders are singled out unfairly in light of all the other genetic issues with other morphs as well. Just like scaleless snakes and white snakes, etc, they don't all have to be able to survive in the wild. They're fine in captivity as pets.
100% agree. I believe we need to stop breeding these animals. We always breed animals cause of how they look, it’s really really unfortunate and unfair to the animals.
Thank you for this video. I'm going to be going to the Chicago NARBC convention and I had my heart set on finding a spider to take home as my first ball python because I've been in love with their gorgeous pattern for YEARS. I am so glad I found this video. Snakes, especially ball pythons have LONG been a passion of mine (15ish years. I'm almost 24), but until I started doing my research in earnest the last few weeks to prepare to setup an enclosure and learn more about different snake species to make sure balls were the species I REALLY wanted (and could handle as a total snake novice) I had absolutely no idea of the issues that can come with the spider Gene. But come to think of it I was at a reptile store today pricing out various supplies and I saw a Mojave spider with a DEFINITE head shake but I didn't think much of it since it was young and stretching up as high as it could reach. I figured it was just off balance or something. In the same way as I could never condone cropping of ears and docking of tails in dogs, I can't in good conscience now purchase a spider morph and perpetuate this problem. I would love it if you would talk more about morphs with health and neurological problems. Lord knows I'd watch and share those videos with every snake enthusiast I know. I'm getting long winded here and you probably won't see this anyways but thank you. 💖
My brother used to have tics that forced him to make the same head movement as the snake "wobble" you showed and believe me he was NOT comfortable. Involuntary movements are never cute or fun to have, they even hurt sometimes, and I feel terrible for those snakes.
I think that example brings some good light to the situation. The biggest argument I have heard is "You can't prove they are uncomfortable," or "They don't feel it," and while I may not be able to "prove" it, I can point to evidence like that.
Amazing Animal Adventures tell them to try jerking their head violently backwards like the snake does... Its not fun
Your brother is a human being with far more brain functions than a snake... snakes run purely off instincts. They have no emotions and far less intellect.
Spot on ! Makes me sick seeing all the spider morphs . Breeding for looks , no care taken about the neuro issues .
Shame that bigger reptile breeders such as BHB reptiles sell them, I just wish that the breeders would not breed things that affect the snake.
I agree. It really is sad.
At least it’s not every morph
Indeed. Pastels are super pretty and harmless!
Amazing Animal Adventures now that I think about it, I have too ask you, since the spider gene affects the neurological system in a snake, and make it more susceptible to a predator, so would it really matter? A snake has (hopefully) no predators in its enclosure, and if a snake got out, it could be hunted down by a native hawk, providing a meal, and possibly stoping an invasive species. I know how grim and unlikely it is, but it is something to think about.
Yeah, its a fine line. I just don't think it's ethical to intentionally breed something with unnatural mental deficiencies. True, there's no predators in the tank, but that doesn't mean we should be ok with breeding mentally impaired animals.
I've been wanting to learn about harmful morphs in snakes for a while now. I'm glad I learned this so I can choose better, healthier morphs
Here's an easy fix: treat them like living things and not fancy cars with different "paint jobs".
Thank you for this video. I have yet to own any ball pythons myself, but for a while I was dead set on getting myself a couple of pretty spiders. The more I look into morphs, the sadder breeding as a whole makes me. I think a lot of people forget that breeding snakes as an industry is just like any other. There will be bad breeders and people who'll lie about genetic issues or outright glorify them because they're "cute". We as pet owners - and future pet owners - have a responsibility to do our research and try to weed out those people so that the animals we're responsible for stay as healthy as possible.
Completely agree man
Thank you for the good take. Honestly so many reptile owners seem to want to justify substandard practices because change would be hard. For breeders and people who make their money from the hobby, change would mean losing friends, not going to reptile expos - it would ruin their business. That's the cold hard truth. But not only do they do that, they then spread utter nonsense that denies what scientists are telling us about reptiles - that they are much smarter and have far more complex emotional states than we have been led to believe. It only makes getting the message across harder, and I thank you for doing the right thing in this case. I hope you get a lot more subscribers, your content is amazing!
3:10
Dude you thwacked his head
I have a spinner ball python, I had no idea about any of this. My snake doesn’t show any of the symptoms you talked about/demonstrated that I know of, I just tested to see if he would flip over and he did immediately. I’ve never noticed a head wobble with him either, but that’s just my snake, I musta just got lucky. Thanks for educating me on this so I can start to pay closer attention to him as he grows older. I wish this was more commonly known.
Was gonna get a spider ball python until I watched this. I knew leopard geckos have the enigma syndrome but I never knew spider ball python morphs wobble.
Glad I'm helping out a little!
If you want to get one you still can just be sure you can get all of its info first.
I've been watching Goherping for two weeks now and have seen you in his videos and wondered if you had a channel, I'm so glad I finally found your videos
Hello, welcome to the channel! Glad you found me. Stay tuned for my next video, it is going to be a great one!
Yeah I completely agree. If this is hindering the animals life, we should definitely stop producing this morph. Similar to how German Shepard dogs are bred for aesthetics, and end up with horrible hip issues and arthritis, or how Arabian horses have hindered breathing and weak hooves because breeders think it "looks pretty".
Also, just out of curiosity, I've heard the spider gene in BPs is due to inbreeding, is that true?
Natatatalatalie Wolff
Who's to say the life of these wonderful creatures is being hindered or adding any pressure whatsoever there are a lot of human beings that are born with birth defects and live long productive lives it's not okay to genocide a species just because of your feelings on the topic
The spider wobble isn't due to inbreeding, there has been numerous outcrossings and expanding of the gene pool that if it was because of inbreeding, it would be gone by now. Like Champagne and Woma and all the other wobble genes, it simply is connected to the morph, and not the result of inbreeding.
It different with people because it's a chance with us, but almost a must with animals because you are breeding it into them. Also the defects are more common in animals than us due to breeding. Birth defects with people are usually things that just happen, versus a pug whose children, and children's children are forced to endure a problem with breathing and sometimes not even to give birth on their own (This is mostly a bulldog problem). We've bred these animals to have these problems. If you don't think an animal who has the chance for its own eyeballs to pop out, doesn't have the body function to cool itself down, and can have pinched nostrils making it common to pass out when too excited, isn't being hindered, then I'm not sure what to tell you.
This is typical of animals we are mass breeding. Dogs, snakes, certain geckos, etc. These animals are just easier to breed in mass.
Nat K not inbreeding, the first spider was caught in the wild. It is naturally occurring in the wild.
I'm actually really surprised how many people don't know about the head-wobble trait. I think most breeders are pretty open about it, and if not, they should be. Still though, it is the purchaser's responsibility to know what they're buying. The head wobble is no secret. I personally don't by any balls with spider in them, but I don't necessarily think breeders should stop breeding them. I wouldn't like seeing my snake act like that, but it doesn't bother other people. If everybody agreed that they shouldnt be produced anymore, then they wouldn't because nobody would be buying them. There isn't a consensus about it though and who is one person to tell someone else what type of pet they can keep or breed.
I like that you made a video about the "problems" associated with this gene. The more info out there in the aether, the better. I think it could have been more educational and less authoritarian though. Simply stating it shouldn't be produced anymore without much compelling evidence as to why and saying you shouldn't have to explain why an argument is bad is not the way to change people's minds. It comes of a bit pompous.
I'm not trying to be a jerk. I support what you're doing and am trying to offer constructive criticism because I want you to succeed. This video was fine for people who already agree with you or who may have never heard of the head wobble, but I don't think it was strong enough to change anybody's minds who would disagree with your position.
I think this similar to how people see pugs and their breathing problems
Exactly!
I actually have heard people say: "Aw their snoring and grunting and panting is so cuuute...!"
No. Fuck you! Your dog can't breathe! Stop!
I agree that pugs have it bad but I also think that bulldogs are even worse they literally cannot breed without human intervention, all bulldogs are born cesarian because they’re heads are too big now to pass normal through the birth canal. It would literally kill the mom and puppies... that’s insane to me... how do people look at these animal we have created and see that they are unable to thrive and say “Meh...”
I upvote for awareness and respect. Discussions like this need to happen, and prompt action. Also Sheila is beautiful and warmed my heart 💖
“that’s enough time to start eating him and pay the bill”
I agree and its great you're putting this out there, as soon as I entered the reptile community I was immediately warned about the spider gene in ball pythons and the enigma gene in leopard geckos. I'm lucky I was around people that taught me why they were bad right off the bat, but many new comers might not be aware of the issue. Getting a first reptile with issues like this would be pretty devasting(to me at least) especially if it was avoidable, my first snake was actually a kenyan sand boa who died at 5 months from a neurological issues(birth defect most likely) and it was stressful and almost ruined having a snake ever again for me so I can imagine. Granted spiders don't usually die early on, but watching your pet struggle like this isn't ever going to be easy and they are going to have more health issues than a different morph that doesn't have any genetic issues right off the bat.
I haven’t bought any of my snakes but I have four ball pythons who carry this Gene, it’s sad to see how they were in their last home, I got one who was rehomed over 5 KNOWN times in less then a year, my spider BP came to me with a dry water bowl and when I gave her water she was drinking for a good 5-8 minutes straight. I got a bumble belly, she was extremely dehydrated, had stuck shed and is now still the size of a hatchling at 2.5 years old, when I got my Bee BP he was very under weight. Now having them all they all eat regularly, rarely miss and meal and have gained a lot of healthy weight! I agree they are beautiful but should not be bred anymore regardless if they show any signs of the wobble
I think it's worth mentioning too, that some snakes with worse wobble whille have trouble striking prey, hurting themselves while striking, or accidentally biting themselves due to the balance problems. I can only imagine that's very stressful to the animal
Maybe we shouldn't breed animals for designer patterns? Hold on while I show you my super pastel spider caramel chocolate champagne albino 8ball acid disco ball volcano python that can't move and has to be hooked up to a ventilator to breathe. But damn does he look cool!
juanthestabber you obviously lack any knowledge of morphs and breeding ball pythons
@@damiensamora8137 Why don't you read the myriad of scientific articles out there that show the links between designer breeding and genetic disorders in a variety of different animals. Come back when you have educated yourself on genetics and not just the silly words breeders use to describe pretty colors.
That shows your lack of understanding is there morphs with defects yes but very few compared to the amount of morphs out there and most if not all fatal or severe kinking genes are looked down upon to work on and a very small market for them because of that and there are also guid lines to prevent such awful deformities to be prevented if you did your research without blinding bios you would see that so maybe you should educate yourself before crapping on a whole group of people who love respect and take care of there animals sir
juanthestabber Adding multiple genes together that don’t have issues won’t create an unhealthy animal, they are purely visual. If you breed an animal with problem genes and keep adding more you can end up with issues but it’s stupid to say that just because it has a lot of designer genes that it will inherently unhealthy. I really suggest you do some research on genetics before you make comments like this, it makes you look really uninformed. And the animal you listed wouldn’t be alive as spider and champagne together is lethal, so no one breeds them together. There is nothing wrong with trying to breed a beautiful animal, just because it has ‘mutations’ doesn’t mean it’s unhealthy, people are afraid of things they don’t understand.
@@duncanrobertson1306 Funny how in your attempted rebuttal you listed yet another negative combo, spider/champagne. Its funny how many butthurt breeders and collectors got mad at my comment because it makes them consider the moral implications of their hobby or source of income. Lots of breeders keep breeding the same snakes together with their own offspring. This increases the chances of genetic abnormalities. Animals aren't a canvas to pain on. If you like pretty colors, buy a plastic snake and paint it yourself.
I can't believe some people are arguing that's its not an issue! I just unsubscribed a channel that did a video saying its not a problem! Poor snakes! Instant sub to your channel thanks for sharing great info. Peace love and light to all x
I'm planning on getting my first snake next month. I was even looking at ones with the spider gene. So glad I know about this now. I won't be getting a spider ball python after watching this
THANK YOU I've been rambling on about everything wrong with spiders for so long but I've never seen a video discussing it before!
Thanks for the video addressing this subject Amazing Animal Adventures, however, without bashing you, let me say that with what you have said here, it is obvious that your experience with the spider gene is limited at best, and while you did show problems with this gene in this video, I could show you the exact opposite, as my spider acts completely normal. So instead of saying "Lets Just Not Breed Them At All", a better thing to say is that in breeding, it should be and needs to be a priority of breeders to try to limit this issue, and always use the philosophy quality over quantity. Thanks for the video, but some of the information and statements you were eluding to simply aren't true.
Before I formulate a response, let me just thank you for responding in an even and polite way, even if you disagree. I value it when people disagree, but still keep their cool instead of just being a jerk. Thanks!
So, yes, I cannot argue that my experience with the spider gene is small to say the least. However, owning an animal with the gene has shown my some things I would not have seen before. I agree that limiting the issue should be the priority, but I think the best way to do that is to eliminate the gene. In my mind, if a gene has such an prominent risk, why even dabble? All that it brings us is aesthetics. Is it worth putting the mental/neurological health on the line for something as insignificant as exotic appearances? As I stated, I have no quarrel with morphs when used with wisdom, but I would argue that the spider gene is just not worth the risks, because of its potential.
Once again, thanks for discussing this is a rational manner.
Hey Amazing Animal Adventures. Thanks for the response. While I think over all your message to your viewers may have in some ways been beneficial, the biggest problem with you're argument is just that without any very strict laws put into place, there is just no way an act like this is possible. With my ball pythons I always stress quality over quantity, and do that when selecting each and every animal to add to my collection, and stress other people to do the same. When I got my spider, it took me months to find one with the colors, attitude, and the least amount of head wobble possible that I wanted. And while doing so I only ever found one that when doing the flip method, (where you flip the animal upside down and you see that it cannot right itself), could not right itself. One out of like twenty from local breeders near me who have the same philosophy as me and try to get head wobble down as low as possible. If it was a gene like camel albino where basically all of spring are effected in a very negative way, then I would agree with you 100%. But because the spider gene isn't, and because the animal you show has a rare case of this trait, people are coming on and being completely turned away from the spider gene, even though most of the animals when bread properly have little to no demonstrations of these traits. I have seen normal's, champagne's, pastels, and even Mojaves showing the same traits you point out in this video. So I really think it comes down more to the breeding and quality of the snake, and I simply think you made a way to broad and open assumption about all spider ball pythons. I currently only own one, but I have held and had many more in the past, and saw no significant problem as to make me recommend people to never breed them again. Thank you very much for the response.
Do you think spider morph's that are being bred to have BETTER neurological issues is ok? Or do you think they should just abandon them?
I wonder if that may have something to do with inbreeding.???????
Negron Jr spider x spider is a lethal combo.....can't inbreed a spider....
The first ever spider was a wildcaught adult with the wobble. It's purely genetic and could be tied to the genetics of the pattern gene
Some have theorized that the way the spider pattern forms affects how the nerves in the snake form early on in the egg. The incomplete pattern halts nerve development early on in the embryonic stages before stem cells have a chance to differentiate themselves and thus, cause neurological problems.
@@christophersharp7198 Yes you can, it's just that %25 of the offspring (the ones that get two copies of the gene) will either be slugs or die in the egg, or in rare cases hatch a deformed snake that dies very young. The other 75% survive to pass on whatever genes they have.
It isn't an inbreeding issue though, because non-spider offspring can go on to produce generations and generations of snakes, none of which get wobble.
@@morrisnakes also, why indbreed spiders? it isnt a recessive gene is it?
I agree with this as I own an enigma leopard gecko morph due to my friend not knowing what the morph entails and was planning on putting her down. Enigmas are much like the spiders but the disorder also comes out in circling and death spins when stressed out. (To enigma owners out there or ones planning to purchase one due to it's very unique patterning, please keep it in it's own separate and simple space WITHOUT lights.) Again, proper breeders know to sell the ones that don't continuously portray the symptoms but that doesn't mean they aren't still there. Mine only shows them when she is stressed, otherwise yours never think something was wrong.
This is an area where the BP community could learn from the mistakes of the dog breeding community. Dogs are all Canis Familiaris. Dog "breeds" are actually more like morphs of the same breed. If you look at certain dog breeds, you'll see severe issues that had been largely ignored for the sake of getting a certain look. German Shepherds are a classic example. GSDs have a lot of joint issues (among other things) now, that were extremely rare at one time. Now GSD breeders are having to go through a lot of headaches to clean up the lines and create dogs with good joint health.
The Spider lines are a lot like that. There's where my opinion differs from yours, though. Instead of trying to end the Spider morph (not likely to happen, given how many people are invested in it), it would be better to promote breeding them specifically based on health. Those that don't show signs of neurological issues should be bred while those that do should be left out of breeding programs. It should have been nipped in the bud back in the day but it is what it is. The line can be cleaned up but it's going to take extra work and restraint by responsible breeders. That sounds daunting but it will be a lot more effective than trying to get the entire community to give up the Spider morph completely.
The problem is that it is impossible to breed a healthy bloodline of spider morphs because the same gene that causes the neurological issues is also the one which makes the morph - the spider gene. So even if you breed a spider morph with no head wobble it doesn't mean that its offspring won't have a head wobble. Also, there are many less visible or straight up invisible neurological issues so yeah. A healthy spider morph bloodline is outside the realm of possibilities.
well the breeds also come in color morphs. and some are unacceptable. I am sure if there were to be a reverse dalmation, the dog world would say "no" but I am guessing any black with white spots reptile would be a thing.
Hey there. I knew nothing about ball pythons a week ago then I fell down the rabbit hole into the world of morphs and the first few vids became a flood as the wonderful You Tube algorithms did their job of selecting content . The deeper I went the more the world of the big breeders and their endless search for 'spectacular' colour morph "firsts" was revealed. The spider gene was only ever spoken about as "amazing" for reducing pattern and sharpening up a really graphic dribble design. By this stage I was actually questioning the bio-ethics as I understand the processes of selective breeding with an ignorance of what genes combine with what and wondered about how careful the breeders were being or if the drive to produce incredible and as yet unseen colour contrasts had superseded any concerns for the biological integrity of the physiology of the snakes being manipulated. Yours is the FIRST clip I have come across to highlight and discuss these bioethical travesties. I remember one breeder mentioned head wobble in passing (without showing an example) but minimised it as a non-issue. Good on you for calling attention to this very real and disturbing practise of selective manipulation for profit.
Feline breeders (American) were breeding Persian cats so their noses (velvets) were positioned so high (between the eyes) that the animals started to sound like pug dogs and experience respiratory distress and eye infections, all to make the cats look "cuter". There is a word I can't stand ! Anyway some veterinarians were having major issues with this but not enough to stop the practise. I really wonder at the behavioural pathology of people who work with animals and put profit or appearance before the biological 'health' of any animal.
Keep calling these fuckers out. There are quite a few breeders who use You Tube to promulgate their snake breeding and you can reach a lot of people and INFLUENCE them too. Public awareness especially among the herp fans will help to spread the word. Target the breeders too and the big annual snake breeders conferences ... Comment or send clips of your snakes obvious neurological damage and hold them accountable. Go to mainstream media and publicise this issue. Even non herp freaks will be interested. I had never even realised this insidious consequence even existed or how unregulated the explosion of backyard selective breeding in ball pythons was. Hassle pet shops too that are selling spiders with issues. It is just wrong.
Keep up the effort. Thank you for posting.
A warning to everyone: Brian from BHB Reptiles is someone who is very pro spider. He acknowledges the issues and says because we can't speak to them we shouldn't assume they're in pain. He thinks we should keep producing because they're beautiful and while he doesn't say it, he clearly cares more about making a profit than about the snake.
I was completely turned off from him when I saw that he doesn't see a problem with scaleless snakes either. Really disappointing.
@Suprem Beanz with zero enrichment. just a piece of paper and a bowl. that's it.
I'm going to share this on Amino. More people need to know about it
Thank you so much for making this video. I had no idea that spider morphs had this problem. Intentionally breeding am animal with a disability like that is uncontainable. Again, thank you so much for helping bring this to light. I know you are not the first; but you are the first that I have seen to mention head wobble and issues with righting themselves without adding the “its not that bad” spin to it. Congrats for being companionate to these beautiful features who rely on us to care for and protect them from preventable hardships and issues such as this.
Thank you so much. I hope you can get through to brian barczyk, that would be amazing
No one will ever get through to that man. Ever. Because most of the people who watch him know nothing about snakes (like myself). And most of those people praise him for educating the public on the "right" way to own reptiles (oh and let's not forget being so positive, if you say anything constructive people legit call you a bully or troll). They reinforce that he's "helping ohhh so much" and I swear the dude literally thinks he's the Stephen Hawking of repitle keeping. UGH I cannot believe his setup for many of the animals OH AND the friggin clickbait.
Can't stand that guy after watching other reptile/snake owners/lovers/breeders.
Rej209 He does do a good job at education and reaching out to kids, and he seems to really care for his animals. But I agree sometimes the enclosures the animals are in are lacking. But as a breeder he has to cut costs to earn a profit
This is a serious video, but as someone who just lost my snake, the snake wrangling and Sheila just noping out made me happy
Sorry to hear that man! Losing a pet is always difficult!
Down side to "not buying" means more than 50% of all ball pythons would come to an end. It's not an issue cause the snake is in captivity and doesn't need to survive but the original spider bp was a wild cought animal so the gene obviously wasn't that much of a draw back. Head wobble also shows up in other genes and as with any "freak gene" there is going to be a drawback. Weather it's what we can notice or not... And no, I don't deal with ball pythons as far as breeding. This is a no win, the spider gene is the most widespread mutation now and ever to happen with ball pythons. I'm on your side with this from a point of morals, but people are too attracted attractive to that reduced pattern and high blushing white sides. I honestly think over time all ball pythons are gonna encounter the spider gene at some point.
i agree. the caramel with the kinks is bad for sure though.
Good points to make! After hearing about the wobble from the spider ball pythons I knew then I will never own one! Thanks for sharing!
# ethan for reptile ambassador 2k18
I was given a snake last December by a coworker of mine who couldn’t care for her anymore. She’s a spider. I’ve had her a year and a half now and rarely notice her wobble, but I kept hearing that spiders had a wobble and never thought much into it. This video really opened my eyes a lot more
Better question, why focus on balls to begin with? I get it if it's your first snake but TBH, they are pretty boring compared to most other snakes. Hognoses for example are a million times the personality and take food as much as you want to feed them.
I love hognoses! I have a beautiful little albino western, and she is the bomb.
Couldn’t agree more mate!
We have the same happening here in Australia with Jaguar carpet pythons
It seems we are headed the same direction as dogs where every “breed” of reptile will come with its own inherit genetic issues, which is a very sad thought