Damn! I didn't even know anyone played RF back in the day, I figured composite was the standard. Here I am being angry composite was the standard in the U.S. learning across the pond they had component as the standard and I learn someone had it worse.
@@livingcorpse5664 I used RF too. In the early 90s, I am pretty sure the only connection our TV had was a male coaxial for an antenna, so only RF would work. Also, the gen 1 Genesis didn't have composite output without some weird cable that looks like a 5 pin DIN plug, but I literally never saw this cable until I bought one about two years ago; as a kid that port was just a mystery. RF was mainly terrible because, without fail, the wire broke as soon as the module was taken out of the box. Even time I played, I had to wiggle the cord until I found the sweet spot that wasn't static, lol. We must have had at least five or six RF switches that were all broken.
I think its cool that people are trying to get these games to look as good as possible, but tbh i feel the same. Composite is fine and imo you get better dithering. I play composite on my crt but my master system, jaguar and turbo grafx 16 use RF. Im just happy playing the games.
Just a note: Scanlines look pretty bad at 1080p. 720p is an exact 3x upscale from the original system’s native 240p so if you want authentic looking scanlines, put the resolution at 720p 60fps.
Unfortunately, there’s a lot more to it than that. :( True 720p displays are almost non-existent, so you are almost always going to get a non-integer scale regardless. Next, you can do 5x (1200p) to get an integer scale at 1080p with only a little bit chopped off at the top and bottom (barely more than your typical CRT overscan back in the day). Unfortunately, most 1080p displays simulate a bit of overscan by default and will still break your integer scale. What’s even worse is that they often hide the relevant settings or do not have them at all! Even the ones that have a setting in the menu call it 10 different things. 1:1, full-pixel, JustScan, etc. Some make you jump through crazy hoops, like manually labeling a particular input “PC” will secretly disable simulated overscan. It’s a mess, but it’s still far easier to get scanlines working right with 1080p and 5x mode, which is why it’s such a shame that Hi-Def NES doesn’t have 5x mode (Nt Mini does). :(
I noticed that some of the grainy effects are masked by the Composite cables, like the pipes in Sonic 2, the transparency in the pipes looks fairly convincing in Composite, but in the HD version, you can notice the spacing in between the pixels. In fact, the same thing kinda happens in your Earthworm Jim comparison between the Sg and the RGB cables, I guess those can be mitigated by the scanline options in the Analogue Sg, but I wouldn't say it's the be all, end all solution.
As a FPGA designer/programmer, I can help clarify that the reason you do emulation with a FPGA is to solve timing issues. Games programmed for older consoles (in this case the Motorola 68K) rely not on program timing techniques but expected processor execution times. So each frame of video, so many cycles would go to the game engine, some to the sound chip, some to the video frame buffer etc. When you emulate games on a PC, you are essentially serializing this entire process and trying to do it faster than a static screen refresh rate. Using a FPGA, you can design an entire 68K MCU and have it clocked at exactly 7.6 MHz. I recommend the GameHut channel for more information on how games were coded back in the day.
I don't get why most people use a Genesis model 2 for sound comparisons, the original model with the "High Definition Graphics" in white on the top of the circle has the best sound of any Genesis model.
I love the enthusiasm for the Saturn, but you'd really want to kill this guy for trying. The Saturn is probably one of the most complex of systems to try and model. It's both exceptionally over-engineered and yet feels like a frankenstein system of components that all require tight timing and, to be honest, I'm not even sure all of the components have been completely reversed engineered. Doing the Saturn would make this look like child's play.
Quick, raise your hand if you don’t have access to the complete Genesis library and a means to play it already. Oh wait, we all do. There’s no market here. The 50-somethings interested in this device already have them provided from Analogue and their video “reviews” went live this morning. Now for the sad part. When a device like this bombs, it’s used as an excuse to not make anything for the Saturn or Dreamcast. You keep seeing Sega licenses classic systems because that was their biggest hit. Sega won’t make a Saturn classic or Dreamcast classic because those systems were deemed failures. However, I would certainly be more interested in a Saturn or Dreamcast classic.
There is something about the Sega Genesis that can never be duplicated. I bought my Sega Genesis when it was first released (and bundled with Altered Beast.) I call it: "The Sega Genesis smell." During gameplay, one could detect a subtle sweet smell of burning plastic. Once the player experienced that smell, one KNEW that one was playing with power...
haha! I didn't have a Genesis myself growing up (I went with the Turbografx and very happy that I did), but two of my best friends had one and now that you mention it, I kind of know what you're talking about with that smell. I don't know if my mind is playing tricks on me, but I remember that smell with my Turbografx and even my NES.
One day all our old hardware will die. The CRTs we use will die, too. When that happens will need an alternate to works with the digital displays we use now. I for one am glad that Analogue has provided that for the SNES and Mega Drive. Form what I can tell the Mega SG provides a more authentic experience than even Sega’s own Mega Drive 2.
the issue with the 32X is that the unit had you running video bypass cables from the genesis to the 32x. You cant really do that now with HDMI. SEGA CD working is good enough for me.
I think that Analogue needs to go all in and create new Sega CD and 32X add-ons. Granted, that may be cost prohibitive for them, but, it would be a great step in the direction of preservation of the Sega experience.
I'm sure that they will have to create a 32X add-on, since the original 32X is incompatible with HDMI compliance, but ALL Sega CD add-ons, work for the Analogue Mega Sg. ...so will they remake the Sega CD add-on? ...no.
Analog should partner with SEGA to release a full-sized replica of either the Mark 1 or Mark 2 *GENESIS* with Analog's hardware on the inside. *I would buy that in a heartbeat.* Forget all these "mini consoles" I want a full-sized re-release of the system with cartridge support!
Personally, I like the way the composite output looks. Basically how it looked when I played the genesis as a kid. Though, I'd probably still play with HDMI.
This is very, very cool. I've spent the last few years trying to find solutions to get my old consoles displaying properly on HD TVs but maybe I should have been focusing on Clone systems! Either way its great to see that these classic games and consoles are not being left behind by technology!
Wow this really brings a new life to Genesis & MasterSystem games. Visual graphics & sound are all highly improved. Almost like a complete remastering. SO many games I can relive in an all new light. Definitely worth it.
Great review. I just got mine yesterday & ultra core was not on the system. I upgraded it to the latest firmware 4.2 (i was on 4.1) & Ultra Core is now on the system. I hope this helps someone.
Thought I should mention that there's no Genesis Buying Guide on your channel. I looked a while ago - lots of featured Genesis games, no buying guide. A shame, because I really wanted to know which model had the best video output.
I enjoyed the review, but don't particularly agree about your opinion of fpga based hardware. Analogue's products are so great because they have a programmer/engineer in Kevin Horton that is extremely knowledgeable and talented, not because they're running on fpga hardware. Software emulation can also be extremely high quality and just like how fpga offers advantages over emulation such as a live cartridge bus to directly interact with carts, software emulation offers its own set of advantages such as native save state support. And just like how software emulation can be poor or a system-on-a-chip design on a single integrated circuit can stink, a fpga can have the software implemented on its reprogrammable integrated circuit be poorly realized. We could easily be here today complaining that these ~$200 systems from Analogue are full of flaws, had they recruited a less talented individual to design them. Kevtris himself is the game changer here, not the hardware under the hood.
Someone always says this when mentioning FPGA stuff, and while core quality is dependent on the programmer, I still think FPGA based stuff still has the potential to be superior to software emulation. The MiSTer project gets better and better all the time for instance, and there is no reason other people as talented as Kevtris won't step up to program these cores. Software emulation can be good too, but requires alot of horsepower to be as accurate as FPGA (potentially). Just my opinion, not trying to argue.
Looks like im done shopping for a new genesis. This is perfect. Hdmi, master system, and sega cd support, and wireless controllers. Thanks for the upload metaljesus, very well done.
Curious if there is a way to have FM audio playback with the Master System library. Also not sure why you would never play these games in composite, that’s all we had back in the day, and some games were actually designed with these limitations in mind.
FPGA is still emulation. Byuu wrote a little screed about it, since he actually collaborated with Analogue on the Super NT only to find out their marketing campaign was basically just making things up like "no emulation". It's just that it's emulation without an OS in the way, hence no input lag. FPGA emulation is no more or less inherently accurate than cycle-accurate software emulators like Higan. Having said that, Analogue's products are awesome, if slightly overpriced and with exorbitant $40 shipping costs.
Yeah, people seem to confuse different clone systems. Like they'll call on a chip clones emulation when they're not. Those are closer to IBM PC clones back in the day, compatible hardware but it's not emulating.
It cost $190, plus $50USD to ship and anyone outside the US also had to pay another 40$ or so on customs/duties/taxes. Also make sure to update the firmware, because Master System support and that Ultracore game not are on the shipped firmware.
Brother, that t-shirt rocks! (I haven’t started the review yet, but came to your channel first! You’re intelligent, eloquent, informative: you cover the details fans need, fun, and seem like a genuinely good person. Thanks for so many hours of education!
8:22 ... and I like the picture quality of the composite output. Real retro, as it used to be on CRT monitors. All this beautiful image quality only reveals the pixelation and angularity of the characters. Composite blurs it out.
TurboGrafx/Pc Engine and Supergrafx are already done in FPGA on the MiSTer already. With Pc Engine/Turbo CD support soon to come. You should check out the MiSTer FPGA project.
Maybe we don’t need it as badly as you think. ;) Check out the UpperGrafx/UperGrafx UGX-02. It replicates the graphics hardware in FPGA exactly like the original Analogue Nt except this one is plug and play with the original consoles! That means perfect digital video over DVI/HDMI (no analog conversion). It’s also able to play CD and card games from SD card. In short, we already have perfect digital video and all the benefit of an Analogue jailbreak in a plug and play device for TurboGrafx-16 and PC Engine. It works with original games too.
Would love to see them tackle the N64. Also that pound cable vs the Mega Sg looked pretty darn good to me so both are pretty good competitors. The audio though, the Megs Sg sounded more brighter to me. But it did sound clearer.
I doubt that'll ever happen. Most N64 emulators use HLE, which makes them not suitable for FPGA's. Also, the N64 had that custom chip, emulation of which....varies.... So I don't think we'll see them ever do an N64 project - MAYBE if we see some new FPGA's hit the market? IDK, But not with what we currently have. With Analogue's quality I'd absolutely love that too.
Thanks so much for in depth review and comparisons. I've never bothered trying to play my old machines on new TVs as it's too costly, too many compromises and far easier just to use a PC with emulation and avoid 99% of known issues. However, this hardware based mega drive / genesis has me eventually being able to play my old carts on my modern TV and I can now collect stuff from foreign regions without usual horrid PAL hz slow-down here in OZ. THANK YOU!
Yeah, that was tricky to line up. I had the two pieces of footage on top of each other in Final Cut Pro X, and then I lowered the top video's opacity to 60% so I could see both at the same time. Then I moved them left or right in time one frame at a time until they were as close as I could get them. All of the matching footage was done this way... Took HOURS LOL
it's amazing how muffled the audio is on a regular composite signal compared to this. I never would have known I wanted more clarity out of the audio had this not existed.
Wow, that Mega SG looks pretty amazing to be fair but i cant help feeling a little bit sad that there'll be no going back to original hardware once you get used to that crystal clear sound and picture.
Original hardware on a CRT is best. Playing on a HD screen will never look as good, as the games were programmed to take advantage of the lower resolution and softer image of old TV screens.
YES! This. So many old Genesis games, in particular, look awful in super-sharp pixel perfect modes because you weren't supposed to see the pixel dithering! The artwork was *intended* to blur and smear together. In some games, super-sharp rendering even harms visual effects, like the faux-transparency lighting effects in Streets Of Rage 2. That's the point of CRT simulation modes in these sorts of retroboxes and emulators. *That* is the closest you can get to seeing the game as it was originally intended to be seen, without og hardware on a real CRT.
@@jasonblalock4429 Just to say, pixels in dithering patterns were NOT necessarily meant to be blended together BUT they could be, it's just a matter of preference. In other words, you can play in RGB or composite, it will looks great in both. The only thing that mattters is to get scanlines and a slight blur to recreate CRT rendering. btw it's not just the Mega Drive that uses dithering in some games but basically every systems up to the N64, even the Neo Geo, the Saturn, etc.
@@ryzmaker11 Oh yeah, dithering definitely shows up a lot. It just seems like the MegaDrive relied on it more than even other consoles, since artists were having to compensate for the MD's relatively low onscreen color count. Plus better artists would also use pixel-based trickery to do things like fake transparency. Which adds up to, at least in my opinion, the MegaDrive often looking worst out of all the classic consoles when played in a "pixel accurate" format. It really needs CRT smearing for the proper visual effect.
@@jasonblalock4429 >"pixel accurate" format I'd rather say "raw rendering" >It really needs CRT smearing I'd rather say "CRT smoothing" :3 anyway there are quite many Mega Drive games that use dithering, yes, but some other systems relied even more on dithering such as the NEC PC-88/98, the Atari ST or the Commodore Amiga. also there are much more SNES games that use dithering than what some people might think. but if used well, dithering is nice since it's a handy way to create gradients or to fake transparency and it's meant to be smoothed out via CRT rendering (or emulation/HD TV with scanlines + slight blur) so color restriction is a much better limitation to end with compared to things such as a weak CPU or limited resolution (and in case of the SNES we could even say *flawed* resolution since it's not even 4:3 shaped) meaning that Sega more wisely designed their console which has the most timeless specs of its time.
Mine ought to be here in a couple of days, so excited! In addition to that, I have to say...having watched TONS of the review videos of the MegaSG, MJR, yours is easily the very best. MLIG's is THOROUGH and very detailed (42 minutes long as well), but yours with the direct comparisons to Composite, that crazy Pound Cable, and the Retron5, REALLY are just fantastic journalism, really useful and extremely well edited with the side by sides. The effort it had to take to get all the EWJ actions so exact on multiple playthroughs, just amazing. You're not just funny and real, you're an absolute pro at making videos. Hoping the Pound cable comes through; I would love this if it works for 32X as an option since the MegaSg isn't going to do any 32X. Thank you for all that you do MJR!!!
On the sound tests: the Mega SG sounds like there isn't as much stereo separation compared to the Model 2. I noticed some settings in the menus for stereo separation so maybe it could be adjusted?
Its awesome to see a system like this, especially as emulation is threatened now. The quality of this seems so great and its legit since its a recreation of the hardware. I would like to see all the old Nintendo systems recreated from this company much love
Great choice using Sonic 2 Level 2. Such a nice song. Thanks for doing the scanline demo. Scanlines add the original pixel definition the 90s developers intended. More depth and less flat. Thanks!
Why not just buy an N64 (about $40 on eBay) and get it modded with Ultra HDMI ? Then you’ve got actual hardware rather than emulation for a similar price to Analogue’s consoles.
The option to enable CD audio is actually the option that enables analog audio from cartridges or CD. It’s not something that needs to be “fixed” in future firmware. It’s turned off by default for a reason. Half the point of an FPGA recreation is to have perfect digital audio and video instead of digitizing lossy analog signals with a scaler/converter box. The only way to get external audio from the Sega CD or special cartridges is to grab the analog audio and digitize it. This needlessly introduces analog noise for games that don’t use CD audio or special cartridge audio. That’s why it was off by default for the Super Nt as well (used for stuff like SD2SNES MSU-1 and Super Game Boy). Game Sack was wrong to tell users to enable it and leave it that way. They didn’t seem to realize that it caused the noise issue they were hearing on silent parts... which they complained about earlier in their video.
Great comparison video, but I'll take composite video output on a good CRT TV over HDMI on any HDTV. Composite looks much better than shown in this video on CRT.
When you were doing the audio comparison did you take the audio from the back of the Genesis? I'm not 100% sure on the Model 2 but the Model 1 only output Mono from the back and you had to pull Stereo from the headphone jack on the front. Seems like the Analogue SG is doing direct stereo which will wind up sounding better, even if you'd been working with the Model 1's rear audio output...
One last thing. Is that border art provided by the Analogue console itself to make up for the 4:3 aspect ratio, or is that something that you have added in editing?
How much do you get PAID to do these advertisements and why isn't the fact this is a paid advertisement disclosed? Maybe the paid youtube reviewers need to be reported to the federal trade commision?
Nicholas Molitor - I was sent the review unit, but NOT paid for the production of the video and nobody reviewed what I said in the video. All the comments about the console were my own. There is no affiliate agreement either. Just a regular review. There is a disclaimer in the video description.
I figured that was the case. I had an original Genesis and was wondering if sound was a concession they made for a cheaper price point. I wonder if it's the same for the CDX
The pound cable seems to be for the "Its designed for a crt, you aren't supposed to be able to see every pixel" people. Much higher quality than composite, but still blurry enough to give the pixels the round edges youd get on a crt.
Keep in mind the model 2 genesis had the worst sound chip of all the models, he was also showing it using composite, the worst fidelity cables. A model 1 genesis/mega drive on a crt is the best way to play.
Do you plan on upgrading to RGB via SCART, or at least HDRetrovision cables? I am guessing the HDMI upscaler of the RGB signal was the culprit of the not-as-good-video of the original hardware. OSSC is a pretty affordable option to the framemeister and even looks great on my old 720p flat panel.
Did you test the Mega SG with the 4 player multitap + krikzz mega everdrive? I could not get Gauntlet IV or Mega Bomberman to work in 4 player mode using either model MK-1647 or MK-1647-44 multitap. Analogue claim full support for the multitap.
You had might as well forget composit. None of the TV's or monitors in my house can even take a composit input. The oldest connection type I could actually use on any of this gear is SVGA so an upscaler to HDMI is probably the minimum these days.
The comparison at 8:18 I'd have to disagree and say the Pound thing looks best and smooth, both the retron and mega sg while crisper also show the imperfections and jaggedness.
Thats why you got upscale filters, they are made exactly for that, they are different ways to smooth out the upscale to get a more "analog->digital" feel instead of pure digital like default.
Turbo Graphics 16 should be next. That console had countless games and so many great ones. Just to name a few of those A+ games in this console 1. Super Star Soldier 2. Gates of Thunder 3. Ninja Spirit 4. Neutopia 5. Blazing Lazers 6. Dungeon Explorer 2 7. Dragon's Curse 8. Lords of Thunder 9. Bomberman '93 10. The Legendary Axe 11. Ys Book 1 &2 12. Bonk's Adventure 13. Neutopia 2 14. Devil's Crush 15. Splatterhouse 16. Bonk's Revenge 17. Castlevania: Rondo of Blood 18. R-Type 19. Air Zonk 20. Blazing Lazers
I'm excited but I do wish the mastersystem adapter was black to match the system. How does the clear plastic feel is it kinda cheap or solid and sturdy?
I purchased a mega sg this holiday season based on your review. Purchased butt loads of classic genesis games i grew up on for my son and I to play together. Thanks metal Jesus!
The reason why the card adapter works is because all card games are 32k in size - which is just straight through addressing of the address and data lines. The game gear games (bigger than 32k) have to have a mapper chip to work.
Great review! So do you prefer the Mega SG more than an original Genesis running on a CRT television? I’ve recently got my old Genesis set up again on a 13” CRT and it looks just how I remembered. Do you like the classic look, or prefer HD?
I'd say the Pound cable is the best of the bunch. Not staring at blocky hard edges is the best way to play these older games. The others are more accurate to the original content, but the Pound cable wins it imo for the experience. There's no way these old games will actually look good at higher resolution - letting the conversions blur the image up a bit helps the hard aliasing. Same issue I had with the UltraHLE emulator when it came out - too many jaggies for N64 games. The experience was better on a scanline CRT.
@@masejoer I can see your point, but I personally appreciate the crisp pixels on sprites on 2D games. 3D is a different story, like you said N64 (for example) needs some help masking things.
Around 12:30 Done on purpose, a great choice and very nicely set up and paced leading into the reveal. If this was a MegaDrive/Genesis movie on opening night that would get probably the biggest pop of the night. “The music sounds fantastic...wait for it....Yeah obviously there you go!”
FFS. No offence, but, composite, pound cable and Retron 5 comparisons!? Anybody interested or having purchased a Mega SG will already have distanced themselves from these options, I'm sure. A far, far better test would have been the OSSC or Framemiester. Having said that, I'm VERY happy with the Retrotink. Great results, great compatibility.
"showing composite is not fair"
Bro, I used to play it with RF back in the days, even composite look stunning.
Damn! I didn't even know anyone played RF back in the day, I figured composite was the standard. Here I am being angry composite was the standard in the U.S. learning across the pond they had component as the standard and I learn someone had it worse.
@@livingcorpse5664 I used RF too. In the early 90s, I am pretty sure the only connection our TV had was a male coaxial for an antenna, so only RF would work. Also, the gen 1 Genesis didn't have composite output without some weird cable that looks like a 5 pin DIN plug, but I literally never saw this cable until I bought one about two years ago; as a kid that port was just a mystery.
RF was mainly terrible because, without fail, the wire broke as soon as the module was taken out of the box. Even time I played, I had to wiggle the cord until I found the sweet spot that wasn't static, lol. We must have had at least five or six RF switches that were all broken.
I think its cool that people are trying to get these games to look as good as possible, but tbh i feel the same. Composite is fine and imo you get better dithering. I play composite on my crt but my master system, jaguar and turbo grafx 16 use RF. Im just happy playing the games.
@@riflemanm16a2 RF was the only gaming I knew back in the NES days. Never bothered me a bit, as it was all I knew at the time.
@@AdamsBrew78 Same here, I didn't know about composite until the N64. The fragility of the RF switches was really annoying though.
Seems like a solid unit. I only wish manufacturers would go "Type C" vs using micro still. It's very inexpensive to jump to a C vs micro.
Just a note: Scanlines look pretty bad at 1080p. 720p is an exact 3x upscale from the original system’s native 240p so if you want authentic looking scanlines, put the resolution at 720p 60fps.
I did not know that! Thanks :)
No worries, Jason! Great video, as always.
J Kemp thanks for the heads up!
Unfortunately, there’s a lot more to it than that. :(
True 720p displays are almost non-existent, so you are almost always going to get a non-integer scale regardless.
Next, you can do 5x (1200p) to get an integer scale at 1080p with only a little bit chopped off at the top and bottom (barely more than your typical CRT overscan back in the day). Unfortunately, most 1080p displays simulate a bit of overscan by default and will still break your integer scale. What’s even worse is that they often hide the relevant settings or do not have them at all! Even the ones that have a setting in the menu call it 10 different things. 1:1, full-pixel, JustScan, etc. Some make you jump through crazy hoops, like manually labeling a particular input “PC” will secretly disable simulated overscan.
It’s a mess, but it’s still far easier to get scanlines working right with 1080p and 5x mode, which is why it’s such a shame that Hi-Def NES doesn’t have 5x mode (Nt Mini does). :(
@@MetalJesusRocks yeah 720p is a scale of 240p. Same as super nt. I use hybrid scanlines in 720p
I noticed that some of the grainy effects are masked by the Composite cables, like the pipes in Sonic 2, the transparency in the pipes looks fairly convincing in Composite, but in the HD version, you can notice the spacing in between the pixels. In fact, the same thing kinda happens in your Earthworm Jim comparison between the Sg and the RGB cables, I guess those can be mitigated by the scanline options in the Analogue Sg, but I wouldn't say it's the be all, end all solution.
There is an interpolation option in the Mega Sg that mixes dithered transparencies like those so that they look as they should.
As a FPGA designer/programmer, I can help clarify that the reason you do emulation with a FPGA is to solve timing issues. Games programmed for older consoles (in this case the Motorola 68K) rely not on program timing techniques but expected processor execution times. So each frame of video, so many cycles would go to the game engine, some to the sound chip, some to the video frame buffer etc. When you emulate games on a PC, you are essentially serializing this entire process and trying to do it faster than a static screen refresh rate. Using a FPGA, you can design an entire 68K MCU and have it clocked at exactly 7.6 MHz. I recommend the GameHut channel for more information on how games were coded back in the day.
What do you think of this article? (it's very short and straight to the point!):
FPGAs Aren't Magic - archive.is/4Umsk
I don't get why most people use a Genesis model 2 for sound comparisons, the original model with the "High Definition Graphics" in white on the top of the circle has the best sound of any Genesis model.
i think he might have made a mistake. he has so much knowledge to know he probably missed it.
Depends on the version of model 2. The first revisions were decent. The later ones not so much.
Saturn or Dreamcast would be awesome to see made.
How many Sega Genesis clones do we really need? Saturn would be no brainer.
I love the enthusiasm for the Saturn, but you'd really want to kill this guy for trying. The Saturn is probably one of the most complex of systems to try and model. It's both exceptionally over-engineered and yet feels like a frankenstein system of components that all require tight timing and, to be honest, I'm not even sure all of the components have been completely reversed engineered. Doing the Saturn would make this look like child's play.
@@RichardHartness I agree. I just dont get why a new Sega clone seems to come out every few months. There's enough already.
Pixels ARE NOT PROBLEM, not need to be MORE BLUR "HD", must be SHARP.
Best are: RetroN 5 & Pound.
Quick, raise your hand if you don’t have access to the complete Genesis library and a means to play it already. Oh wait, we all do. There’s no market here. The 50-somethings interested in this device already have them provided from Analogue and their video “reviews” went live this morning.
Now for the sad part. When a device like this bombs, it’s used as an excuse to not make anything for the Saturn or Dreamcast. You keep seeing Sega licenses classic systems because that was their biggest hit. Sega won’t make a Saturn classic or Dreamcast classic because those systems were deemed failures. However, I would certainly be more interested in a Saturn or Dreamcast classic.
I want them to go turbo graphics 16
Same!!!!
You're in luck!
There is something about the Sega Genesis that can never be duplicated. I bought my Sega Genesis when it was first released (and bundled with Altered Beast.) I call it: "The Sega Genesis smell." During gameplay, one could detect a subtle sweet smell of burning plastic. Once the player experienced that smell, one KNEW that one was playing with power...
haha! I didn't have a Genesis myself growing up (I went with the Turbografx and very happy that I did), but two of my best friends had one and now that you mention it, I kind of know what you're talking about with that smell. I don't know if my mind is playing tricks on me, but I remember that smell with my Turbografx and even my NES.
One day all our old hardware will die. The CRTs we use will die, too. When that happens will need an alternate to works with the digital displays we use now. I for one am glad that Analogue has provided that for the SNES and Mega Drive.
Form what I can tell the Mega SG provides a more authentic experience than even Sega’s own Mega Drive 2.
the issue with the 32X is that the unit had you running video bypass cables from the genesis to the 32x. You cant really do that now with HDMI. SEGA CD working is good enough for me.
exellent video especially the comparison with the Retron 5 I missed somewhere else , congratulations !!
I think that Analogue needs to go all in and create new Sega CD and 32X add-ons. Granted, that may be cost prohibitive for them, but, it would be a great step in the direction of preservation of the Sega experience.
I'm sure that they will have to create a 32X add-on, since the original 32X is incompatible with HDMI compliance, but ALL Sega CD add-ons, work for the Analogue Mega Sg. ...so will they remake the Sega CD add-on? ...no.
Was there anything worth playing on the 32X that didn't make it to another console?
I think they need 32x+CD addon to make this complete.
@@badreality2 If they're going that far, why not go all the way? Working Sega CDs aren't exactly easy to come by.
@@3rdalbum there are a few gems, some decent ports, some bad ports. It's a small, mixed bag
Aaaaaand just like that, every gaming channel has a review for the Mega SG.
Russell Harrington yes, but none like John Hancock and Metal Jesus.
MLiG would like to have a word with you. :P
And? It's called sending out units for review
Sponsor
Like most electronic product releases, there was a review embargo.
Analog should partner with SEGA to release a full-sized replica of either the Mark 1 or Mark 2 *GENESIS* with Analog's hardware on the inside. *I would buy that in a heartbeat.*
Forget all these "mini consoles" I want a full-sized re-release of the system with cartridge support!
No doubt some modder will take this device and make it work inside a full-size chassis. =D
great idea. Really besides cost the only downside is it will never look like an original
Personally, I like the way the composite output looks. Basically how it looked when I played the genesis as a kid. Though, I'd probably still play with HDMI.
This is very, very cool. I've spent the last few years trying to find solutions to get my old consoles displaying properly on HD TVs but maybe I should have been focusing on Clone systems! Either way its great to see that these classic games and consoles are not being left behind by technology!
Wow this really brings a new life to Genesis & MasterSystem games. Visual graphics & sound are all highly improved. Almost like a complete remastering. SO many games I can relive in an all new light. Definitely worth it.
Great review. I just got mine yesterday & ultra core was not on the system. I upgraded it to the latest firmware 4.2 (i was on 4.1) & Ultra Core is now on the system. I hope this helps someone.
Thought I should mention that there's no Genesis Buying Guide on your channel. I looked a while ago - lots of featured Genesis games, no buying guide. A shame, because I really wanted to know which model had the best video output.
True
Great review, very informative and thorough. Thanks! Can't wait to get my Mega Sg, it's already in the mail...
I enjoyed the review, but don't particularly agree about your opinion of fpga based hardware. Analogue's products are so great because they have a programmer/engineer in Kevin Horton that is extremely knowledgeable and talented, not because they're running on fpga hardware.
Software emulation can also be extremely high quality and just like how fpga offers advantages over emulation such as a live cartridge bus to directly interact with carts, software emulation offers its own set of advantages such as native save state support. And just like how software emulation can be poor or a system-on-a-chip design on a single integrated circuit can stink, a fpga can have the software implemented on its reprogrammable integrated circuit be poorly realized.
We could easily be here today complaining that these ~$200 systems from Analogue are full of flaws, had they recruited a less talented individual to design them. Kevtris himself is the game changer here, not the hardware under the hood.
Someone always says this when mentioning FPGA stuff, and while core quality is dependent on the programmer, I still think FPGA based stuff still has the potential to be superior to software emulation. The MiSTer project gets better and better all the time for instance, and there is no reason other people as talented as Kevtris won't step up to program these cores. Software emulation can be good too, but requires alot of horsepower to be as accurate as FPGA (potentially). Just my opinion, not trying to argue.
Looks like im done shopping for a new genesis. This is perfect. Hdmi, master system, and sega cd support, and wireless controllers. Thanks for the upload metaljesus, very well done.
Curious if there is a way to have FM audio playback with the Master System library. Also not sure why you would never play these games in composite, that’s all we had back in the day, and some games were actually designed with these limitations in mind.
You didn't mention the farting noise it makes when you touch the power button.
(or was that a Game Sack exclusive DLC?)
FPGA is still emulation. Byuu wrote a little screed about it, since he actually collaborated with Analogue on the Super NT only to find out their marketing campaign was basically just making things up like "no emulation". It's just that it's emulation without an OS in the way, hence no input lag. FPGA emulation is no more or less inherently accurate than cycle-accurate software emulators like Higan.
Having said that, Analogue's products are awesome, if slightly overpriced and with exorbitant $40 shipping costs.
Yeah, people seem to confuse different clone systems. Like they'll call on a chip clones emulation when they're not. Those are closer to IBM PC clones back in the day, compatible hardware but it's not emulating.
Would have liked to see Virtua Racing, Sonic 3 & Knuckles, Super Street Fighter 2 and a few others that have problems playing on clone systems tested.
watch one of the 50 reviews by everyone who got sent a copy for free to review.
Spoiler: they all work fine.
It cost $190, plus $50USD to ship and anyone outside the US also had to pay another 40$ or so on customs/duties/taxes.
Also make sure to update the firmware, because Master System support and that Ultracore game not are on the shipped firmware.
Kisai Yuki I really appreciate this info! :D
I think that comparing the audio to the original Model 1 would be a more apt comparison between the two.
Brother, that t-shirt rocks! (I haven’t started the review yet, but came to your channel first! You’re intelligent, eloquent, informative: you cover the details fans need, fun, and seem like a genuinely good person. Thanks for so many hours of education!
Love to play Spellcaster and kenseiden again on the master system
I found a copy of Spellcaster. It's such a fun game!
8:22 ... and I like the picture quality of the composite output. Real retro, as it used to be on CRT monitors. All this beautiful image quality only reveals the pixelation and angularity of the characters. Composite blurs it out.
Analogue: The world desperately needs you to engineer a TurboGrafx-16 FPGA clone. Don't forget SuperGrafx!
This x1000!
Analogue PC-16😁
TurboGrafx/Pc Engine and Supergrafx are already done in FPGA on the MiSTer already. With Pc Engine/Turbo CD support soon to come. You should check out the MiSTer FPGA project.
@@mfdumile I will absolutely do that! Haven't heard of that one. Thanks!
Maybe we don’t need it as badly as you think. ;) Check out the UpperGrafx/UperGrafx UGX-02. It replicates the graphics hardware in FPGA exactly like the original Analogue Nt except this one is plug and play with the original consoles! That means perfect digital video over DVI/HDMI (no analog conversion). It’s also able to play CD and card games from SD card.
In short, we already have perfect digital video and all the benefit of an Analogue jailbreak in a plug and play device for TurboGrafx-16 and PC Engine. It works with original games too.
Would love to see them tackle the N64. Also that pound cable vs the Mega Sg looked pretty darn good to me so both are pretty good competitors. The audio though, the Megs Sg sounded more brighter to me. But it did sound clearer.
I doubt that'll ever happen. Most N64 emulators use HLE, which makes them not suitable for FPGA's. Also, the N64 had that custom chip, emulation of which....varies.... So I don't think we'll see them ever do an N64 project - MAYBE if we see some new FPGA's hit the market? IDK, But not with what we currently have.
With Analogue's quality I'd absolutely love that too.
thank you!! this was awesome!! answered all my question!!!!
Great review!! thank you for doing this literally just order one of these bad boys. Would be dope to see an Analogue N64 Next!!!
Analogue N64 would be next level!
Thanks so much for in depth review and comparisons. I've never bothered trying to play my old machines on new TVs as it's too costly, too many compromises and far easier just to use a PC with emulation and avoid 99% of known issues. However, this hardware based mega drive / genesis has me eventually being able to play my old carts on my modern TV and I can now collect stuff from foreign regions without usual horrid PAL hz slow-down here in OZ. THANK YOU!
N64!, Now that would be a day one purchase! Great video mj
Yeah buddy. That or an Analogue Atari 2600.
PSone is fine too
Be good if it came with a wireless controller similar to the old hori or do a deal with the brawler controller
that's what I'm waiting for. Otherwise, I'm buying an UltraHD modded N64 eventually
themcfaceman Do it... same price as Analogue’s console and no worries about accuracy.
Better than AT games :v
Mega SG is amazing. I need one.
AT games would advertise the system as containing arcade ROMs, but then when you buy it it's just genesis ROMs.
HuezinXD get the super retro trio
@@rebelfriend5172 Eww, why? They stole open source emulator code.
I want it so i can have a spare to use. My current Sega Genesis works fine, but it'd be nice to have a spare.
Ive got the Mega Retron it works good enough, its a cheaper price too.
How did you get everything to match up when you made that transition at 5:10??
Yeah, that was tricky to line up. I had the two pieces of footage on top of each other in Final Cut Pro X, and then I lowered the top video's opacity to 60% so I could see both at the same time. Then I moved them left or right in time one frame at a time until they were as close as I could get them. All of the matching footage was done this way... Took HOURS LOL
Is it just the game-play that pops up if you leave the system idle at the title screen for too long?
@@MetalJesusRocks I ask because I noticed that EVERYTHING matched, including health and ammo.
I think the MSRP of Sega Genesis was $189.99 when it was first released.
it's amazing how muffled the audio is on a regular composite signal compared to this. I never would have known I wanted more clarity out of the audio had this not existed.
Wow, that Mega SG looks pretty amazing to be fair but i cant help feeling a little bit sad that there'll be no going back to original hardware once you get used to that crystal clear sound and picture.
this is the content we come for. never change the drum muzak in the background man
Original hardware on a CRT is best. Playing on a HD screen will never look as good, as the games were programmed to take advantage of the lower resolution and softer image of old TV screens.
YES! This. So many old Genesis games, in particular, look awful in super-sharp pixel perfect modes because you weren't supposed to see the pixel dithering! The artwork was *intended* to blur and smear together. In some games, super-sharp rendering even harms visual effects, like the faux-transparency lighting effects in Streets Of Rage 2.
That's the point of CRT simulation modes in these sorts of retroboxes and emulators. *That* is the closest you can get to seeing the game as it was originally intended to be seen, without og hardware on a real CRT.
@@jasonblalock4429 Just to say, pixels in dithering patterns were NOT necessarily meant to be blended together BUT they could be, it's just a matter of preference. In other words, you can play in RGB or composite, it will looks great in both. The only thing that mattters is to get scanlines and a slight blur to recreate CRT rendering.
btw it's not just the Mega Drive that uses dithering in some games but basically every systems up to the N64, even the Neo Geo, the Saturn, etc.
@@ryzmaker11 Oh yeah, dithering definitely shows up a lot. It just seems like the MegaDrive relied on it more than even other consoles, since artists were having to compensate for the MD's relatively low onscreen color count. Plus better artists would also use pixel-based trickery to do things like fake transparency.
Which adds up to, at least in my opinion, the MegaDrive often looking worst out of all the classic consoles when played in a "pixel accurate" format. It really needs CRT smearing for the proper visual effect.
@@jasonblalock4429 >"pixel accurate" format
I'd rather say "raw rendering"
>It really needs CRT smearing
I'd rather say "CRT smoothing"
:3
anyway there are quite many Mega Drive games that use dithering, yes, but some other systems relied even more on dithering such as the NEC PC-88/98, the Atari ST or the Commodore Amiga. also there are much more SNES games that use dithering than what some people might think.
but if used well, dithering is nice since it's a handy way to create gradients or to fake transparency and it's meant to be smoothed out via CRT rendering (or emulation/HD TV with scanlines + slight blur) so color restriction is a much better limitation to end with compared to things such as a weak CPU or limited resolution (and in case of the SNES we could even say *flawed* resolution since it's not even 4:3 shaped) meaning that Sega more wisely designed their console which has the most timeless specs of its time.
Yeah. I'm one of those idiots that thinks composite looks better than the 1080p crispness.
Mine ought to be here in a couple of days, so excited!
In addition to that, I have to say...having watched TONS of the review videos of the MegaSG, MJR, yours is easily the very best. MLIG's is THOROUGH and very detailed (42 minutes long as well), but yours with the direct comparisons to Composite, that crazy Pound Cable, and the Retron5, REALLY are just fantastic journalism, really useful and extremely well edited with the side by sides. The effort it had to take to get all the EWJ actions so exact on multiple playthroughs, just amazing. You're not just funny and real, you're an absolute pro at making videos.
Hoping the Pound cable comes through; I would love this if it works for 32X as an option since the MegaSg isn't going to do any 32X. Thank you for all that you do MJR!!!
Best review of this system so far. Thanks dude!
Mate! What a video! You did an unbelievable job showing the difference between options! Good job!
MetalJesusRocks Do you have a buying guide for the SEGA Genesis? If so, I can’t find it. If not, it would be awesome if you made one!
On the sound tests: the Mega SG sounds like there isn't as much stereo separation compared to the Model 2. I noticed some settings in the menus for stereo separation so maybe it could be adjusted?
Its awesome to see a system like this, especially as emulation is threatened now. The quality of this seems so great and its legit since its a recreation of the hardware. I would like to see all the old Nintendo systems recreated from this company much love
I'd love to see anlogue tackle the neo geo brand and make an all in one neo geo console that plays all the neo geo formats, platforms and accessories.
You game sack and MVG all released the same review on the same day. I liked how you and MVG both used the intro to bloodlines
So did Colin aka This Does Not Compute
@Chris Taber they sent them the unit, I doubt they are paid
Great choice using Sonic 2 Level 2. Such a nice song. Thanks for doing the scanline demo. Scanlines add the original pixel definition the 90s developers intended. More depth and less flat. Thanks!
I already got the Super NT.
I wish they would make a N64.
Not currently feasable
I emailed them this about an n64and they just said any news will be released on our page 🤨
@@steveothehulk kevgris already stated there doesn't exist an FPGA big enough. The max currently is psone
n64 doesnt hold up well today homie... Saturn on the other hand... :O
Why not just buy an N64 (about $40 on eBay) and get it modded with Ultra HDMI ? Then you’ve got actual hardware rather than emulation for a similar price to Analogue’s consoles.
The option to enable CD audio is actually the option that enables analog audio from cartridges or CD. It’s not something that needs to be “fixed” in future firmware. It’s turned off by default for a reason. Half the point of an FPGA recreation is to have perfect digital audio and video instead of digitizing lossy analog signals with a scaler/converter box. The only way to get external audio from the Sega CD or special cartridges is to grab the analog audio and digitize it. This needlessly introduces analog noise for games that don’t use CD audio or special cartridge audio. That’s why it was off by default for the Super Nt as well (used for stuff like SD2SNES MSU-1 and Super Game Boy). Game Sack was wrong to tell users to enable it and leave it that way. They didn’t seem to realize that it caused the noise issue they were hearing on silent parts... which they complained about earlier in their video.
Great comparison video, but I'll take composite video output on a good CRT TV over HDMI on any HDTV. Composite looks much better than shown in this video on CRT.
Mine is in the mail as we speak! I cant wait to start playing my genesis games on it! Would live to see a turbo grafix 16 version from them
ha
Your review, My Life In Gamings review , Rerez review of Mega SG are the best
When you were doing the audio comparison did you take the audio from the back of the Genesis? I'm not 100% sure on the Model 2 but the Model 1 only output Mono from the back and you had to pull Stereo from the headphone jack on the front. Seems like the Analogue SG is doing direct stereo which will wind up sounding better, even if you'd been working with the Model 1's rear audio output...
Fit a 3.5mm headphone jack, but not a hardwired volume control slider/knob? (facepalm)!
@Steve Fox consumer headsets yes, but not on pro studio headsets or older headsets. You'd need a mixer to get the volume control.
One last thing. Is that border art provided by the Analogue console itself to make up for the 4:3 aspect ratio, or is that something that you have added in editing?
what?? other channels also have uploaded their videos on this same topic at the same time...
I noticed that too. Oh well, they're all covering various different details, so, i'm good with it.
Greeneyez2475 - What didn't you like about my video? I'm always looking for constructive feedback.
@@MetalJesusRocks Wondered that myself.
How much do you get PAID to do these advertisements and why isn't the fact this is a paid advertisement disclosed? Maybe the paid youtube reviewers need to be reported to the federal trade commision?
Nicholas Molitor - I was sent the review unit, but NOT paid for the production of the video and nobody reviewed what I said in the video. All the comments about the console were my own. There is no affiliate agreement either. Just a regular review. There is a disclaimer in the video description.
Dithering is the key for the Sega 16-bit.
Playing Mega SG with the HDMI with the default filter settings look like you're playing on the emulator...
Sega genesis model II had a poorer quality audio chip then the early early model 1's
I figured that was the case. I had an original Genesis and was wondering if sound was a concession they made for a cheaper price point. I wonder if it's the same for the CDX
MJR should have used a Model 1 in the comparison imo
But the Model 1's stereo audio comes out the front which is a pita.
The early model 2 Genesis had bad audio, but there are later va3 and va4 models with audio that is close to or on par with the early model 1's.
The pound cable seems to be for the "Its designed for a crt, you aren't supposed to be able to see every pixel" people. Much higher quality than composite, but still blurry enough to give the pixels the round edges youd get on a crt.
Bought one of these for my game room and gave two away on stream. It’s a nice machine to have.
Did you try any Master System games that make use of the FM sound chip?
After that Sonic 2 demo I'm sold!
Keep in mind the model 2 genesis had the worst sound chip of all the models, he was also showing it using composite, the worst fidelity cables. A model 1 genesis/mega drive on a crt is the best way to play.
Do you plan on upgrading to RGB via SCART, or at least HDRetrovision cables? I am guessing the HDMI upscaler of the RGB signal was the culprit of the not-as-good-video of the original hardware. OSSC is a pretty affordable option to the framemeister and even looks great on my old 720p flat panel.
Personally I prefer the pound image, it is less pixelated
Did you test the Mega SG with the 4 player multitap + krikzz mega everdrive? I could not get Gauntlet IV or Mega Bomberman to work in 4 player mode using either model MK-1647 or MK-1647-44 multitap. Analogue claim full support for the multitap.
Nice to see robocop vs the terminator getting some love
Cool game back in the day... think I still have my copy of it..
You had might as well forget composit. None of the TV's or monitors in my house can even take a composit input. The oldest connection type I could actually use on any of this gear is SVGA so an upscaler to HDMI is probably the minimum these days.
The comparison at 8:18 I'd have to disagree and say the Pound thing looks best and smooth, both the retron and mega sg while crisper also show the imperfections and jaggedness.
Thats why you got upscale filters, they are made exactly for that, they are different ways to smooth out the upscale to get a more "analog->digital" feel instead of pure digital like default.
Turbo Graphics 16 should be next. That console had countless games and so many great ones. Just to name a few of those A+ games in this console
1. Super Star Soldier
2. Gates of Thunder
3. Ninja Spirit
4. Neutopia
5. Blazing Lazers
6. Dungeon Explorer 2
7. Dragon's Curse
8. Lords of Thunder
9. Bomberman '93
10. The Legendary Axe
11. Ys Book 1 &2
12. Bonk's Adventure
13. Neutopia 2
14. Devil's Crush
15. Splatterhouse
16. Bonk's Revenge
17. Castlevania: Rondo of Blood
18. R-Type
19. Air Zonk
20. Blazing Lazers
Hey metal J. What game had the most impact on your life?
Definitely H.E.R.O. would be on that list! LOL
I'm excited but I do wish the mastersystem adapter was black to match the system. How does the clear plastic feel is it kinda cheap or solid and sturdy?
Oh sweet! Skeleton Krew! Loved that game on the MegaDrive. Both that one and The Haunting Starring Polterguy are my favs. :)
I purchased a mega sg this holiday season based on your review. Purchased butt loads of classic genesis games i grew up on for my son and I to play together. Thanks metal Jesus!
WOOOOW this is next level of retro gaming :)
Agreed!
The reason why the card adapter works is because all card games are 32k in size - which is just straight through addressing of the address and data lines. The game gear games (bigger than 32k) have to have a mapper chip to work.
Great video hopefully they can release an adapter for 32x in the future and ideally there own CD Drive!
I think it is only worth it if you have a mega CD to play it in hd.
The rest of it is not really a seller for me at that price.
Was the footage at the end from Miami Connection?
*Still got my G1 Genesis...maybe its time to attempt some Eternal Champions Fatalities!*
Great review! So do you prefer the Mega SG more than an original Genesis running on a CRT television? I’ve recently got my old Genesis set up again on a 13” CRT and it looks just how I remembered. Do you like the classic look, or prefer HD?
These clones are cool but, for me a huge part of the enjoyment is the original hardware.
It was pretty cool attaching a real Sega CD to the Analogue and just having it work with glorious 1080p output!
@@MetalJesusRocks that is pretty awesome to be fair! No messing about with up scalers and all that stuff!
Still one of the best reviews on the system.Great work.
This is one of three review videos that showed up on my homepage on RUclips...hmm...lol
I got 6 all at 11am you're slacking yo.
:P @@ninjamaster3453
What's your point? There's nothing shady going on.
Awesome review!!! I was waiting you review for a long time. I'm crazy about this console. And see what this console is capable is awesome!!!
how about an FPGA Sega Saturn.
^^ THIS ^^
Did that pound cable ever get released? It looks good
Great video! The Pound cable is pretty nice, though obviously better off with the Mega SG (if you can afford it).
I'd say the Pound cable is the best of the bunch. Not staring at blocky hard edges is the best way to play these older games. The others are more accurate to the original content, but the Pound cable wins it imo for the experience.
There's no way these old games will actually look good at higher resolution - letting the conversions blur the image up a bit helps the hard aliasing. Same issue I had with the UltraHLE emulator when it came out - too many jaggies for N64 games. The experience was better on a scanline CRT.
@@masejoer I can see your point, but I personally appreciate the crisp pixels on sprites on 2D games. 3D is a different story, like you said N64 (for example) needs some help masking things.
Around 12:30 Done on purpose, a great choice and very nicely set up and paced leading into the reveal. If this was a MegaDrive/Genesis movie on opening night that would get probably the biggest pop of the night. “The music sounds fantastic...wait for it....Yeah obviously there you go!”
FFS. No offence, but, composite, pound cable and Retron 5 comparisons!? Anybody interested or having purchased a Mega SG will already have distanced themselves from these options, I'm sure. A far, far better test would have been the OSSC or Framemiester. Having said that, I'm VERY happy with the Retrotink. Great results, great compatibility.
Naw. I knew My Life in Gaming would have that covered... I decided to go a different route with my video.
@@MetalJesusRocks come on, dude, don't rely on others to pick up the slack. Mostly enjoy all your videos, but you dropped the ball big on this imo.
Great review dude. Mine’s arriving in a London at noon Wednesday
Has to be Turbografx next
nah m8 , n64
@@AcousticNRG the N64 can wait, let the PC-Engine/TurboGrafx 16 have a chance.
What’s the benefits of turbografx compared to this
also pound cables don't display optimal timings for a pixel perfect image that an OSSC can provide when dialed in properly
17:55
MJR “very hard, but very satisfying” yeah, that’s what she said lol 😂
Thank you for the info. Hope that 32x adapter will be available.... The orignal does not work?