Red Dot Forum Camera Talk: Leica M11 - Unveiling an Icon
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- Опубликовано: 22 июл 2024
- In our first Red Dot Forum Camera Talk episode of 2022, Leica experts David Farkas and Josh Lehrer will be discussing the brand-new Leica M11 digital rangefinder. Tune in at noon today to learn all about the latest digital rangefinder. They'll have both black and silver cameras, the new Visoflex 2, the new handgrip and lots to talk about. David had the chance to shoot with and review the camera. Check out his full written review loaded with real-world sample images here:
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Timestamps
====================
0:00 - Starting Soon
1:02 - Welcome
6:34 - Proper intro!
7:55 - Who we are
9:07 - Intro to M11
17:00 - Light meter comparison with M10-R
19:45 - Charging the M11
26:45 - Custom functions buttons
32:50 - Electronic shutter
37:45 - 64GB internal memory
41:40 - Visoflex 2
46:35 - Live view stabilization
50:05 - 35mm APO-M
51:10 - Aluminum top plate
53:40 - M11 availability
56:25 - Triple Resolution Technology
1:06:45 - USB-C port
1:19:50 - New handgrip for M11
1:23:05 - Thumb support for M11
1:25:05 - Dimension comparison between M11 and M10
1:26:45 - Does the M11 have higher dynamic range than the M10-R?
1:28:45 - Does the M11 have Perspective Control?
1:29:24 - Will only high resolving M lenses see the benefit of the Triple Resolution sensor?
1:30:17 - Will the M10-R remain in production and possible price reduction?
1:30:40 - Will the diopter correction from the M10 work on the M11?
1:30:48 - Are M11 DNG files supported on Mac OS?
1:31:20 - Can the electronic shutter cause issues?
1:33:05 - Can you choose your shutter speed after 1/4000s?
1:33:17 - Do you have the ability to turn off noise reduction?
1:35:02 - Benefits of brass top plate?
1:36:07 - Is there any change to the viewfinder?
1:36:20 - What is the magnification of the viewfinder?
1:36:32 - Is the USB-C port covered?
1:37:24 - Can I transfer photos from the M11 to the Leica Fotos App via cable?
1:37:53 - Will there be more dust in the sensor since it's always exposed?
1:39:05 - What is the light next to the viewfinder on the back of the M11?
1:40:14 - Does the 60MP sensor put more distance between Summilux and APO lenses?
1:40:50 - What is the BSI sensor?
1:42:50 - Can you customize the adjustment of the electronic shutter?
1:45:20 - Will the M10 eyecup accessories from Match Technical fit the M11?
1:45:28 - How is shutter lag affected with the new metering?
1:46:49 - What do you think about the lack of IBIS with a 60MP sensor?
1:56:05 - Signing off!
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Great show yet again. Belated happy new year with good health and fortune for you all.
A Leica-M digital that will fill needs of pro and amateur photographers. A true journalist rig. It's tough competition out there, the "elephant" in room. The phone camera. wishing Leica a great success.
At around 14:20-14:35 = Leica's approach, every aspect of the camera ! (AND LENS SYSTEM) Probably why they have been making newer M lenses. Bact to the video! Great show!
Really great review guys. Very comprehensive with all the details no one has covered. Thanks for covering the accessories and connectivity. Very helpful, especially since many of these upgrades and changes go straight to this new evolution’s significant improvements. From what i can see, the heart and soul of the M is preserved, while making great and necessary improvements. For an M guy who understands the necessary ‘keeping up’ with the industry, this increasingly difficult challenge is met at the highest levels of smart and ‘essential’ without losing its roots.
They’re ALL exciting episodes of RDF thanks Boys!
Thanks for a great video, as always!
About the name "B.S.I." : From the electronics engineer's point-of-view, the electronic stuff is built into the normal, usual, top side, that's the photosites which are on the back!
And they are of course illuminated by the light coming from the lens.
So for any chip designer, the photosites are obviously (dah!) on the bottom, or on the back if you prefer.
It's just that these camera makers have this weird habit of putting the chip's back at the camera's front side. :)
Hoping it makes more sense...
The black model being aluminum is not some thing I was interested in. I wish they had stuck with brass. And why can’t they just offer it as an option with black paint, without it being some limited production 2000 models extra high pricing. I would also prefer if they had stuck with the original base plate design… I think it had a tremendous amount of durability to the base plate and use of the camera.
Great stuff, Guys. Looking forward to continuing to build a catalog with my M10M and watch the future of this platform and M system. I’ll prob wait until the next Monochrom to get too excited, but I like where the 11 is headed.
P
Great informative video, always love what you guys are doing, question is… is the bottom plate made of the same material like the top plate? Say, silver, bottom and top made of brass? Or just the top plate?
I got my M10R black paint love it so much, but the m11 is tempting
Had a great time at the Leica store yesterday.!!
I have a question for the next episode. I have a Leica 90mm f/2.2 Thambar-M. I would love to see/hear how it performs on the M11 with its 60mp sensor.
Great show as usual! Thank you for the awesome free content you keep on making.
Great stuff! Looking forward to the deep dive video. 🔴
Coming soon!
hey guys great video once again! I'm very curious since i heard that the m11's has better live view durability? meaning that perhaps it doesn't heat up as much as other m10s since i have friends having m10s go to service pretty often since they used live view a lot. Thanks guys please let me know since it is a deciding factor for me of buying m11 or not, cheers!
Thx gentlemen…. Very thorough!
David, how does one select info profiles under Capture Assistants? There're four profiles one can set up but how to select them for use?
Silver M11 owner. Best camera money can buy for photography.
any updates on banding. Such as syncing with mercury vapor type lights or like trying to sync with a TV screen. I had this problem with both my sl2 and m10
At 60mp what is the maximum aperture to prevent diffusion? Since this is a 60mp sensor, I assume that at all resolutions this would be a constant...
As always, great show. Looking forward to the next one.
I wonder if the flare often encountered with the vintage lenses at wide open aperture will disappear?
Question: will M11 Live View mode overheat/heat up the body? I'm using my M10-r and every time I enable live view, the body gets hot 🔥
How high can typical Leica glass even resolve? Are we reaching the limits yet? Great review, so much detail
Well done, guys! David, great suggestion for combining electronic shutter with shutter delay for landscape!
I hate you and RedDotForum! 🤣 I'm basically broke now, buying all this new Leica gear. 😆
@@dfj555 😎😉
Thanks! Necessity is the mother of invention, right?
Can you elaborate on the benefits of the use of brass in the camera and lenses.
1:40:52
Great explanation of BSI sensor.
Better name? “Junk in da trunk Sensor”!
Love you guys!
The question that I would like you to answer is: What is the best procedure when changing lenses on the M11 to minimize dust getting on the sensor? I understand in setting the shutter at electrinic the curtain remans open.
John Leanage
If you take pictures with the M10 in Live View, spot metering, center-weighted and multi-field metering are also available to you. So you are not restricted to use the center-weighted measurement only.
That is correct. We are talking about being able to use multifield metering in rangefinder mode as well.
@@RedDotForum What is the "rangefinder mode" on a Leica M?! You can use the rangefinder with live view switched on, with live view switched off and even when the camera is switched off.
Questions for your next video: Any light flicker issues with full electronic shutter? Does M11 have any light flicker detect/avoidance technology?
Feelings if M11 colors close enough to the M10 that switching cameras would not be noticed in an ongoing print project?
Red dot same size? - I'd like to transfer my black dot ;-)
Just noticed the LV Sub, looks great! Both of you are upping your watch game recently. Is there some kind of unstated competition here?
I wish Zeiss would make a simple ZM mount EVF ZX2 and keep the price under $2k. With Leica digital M cameras I need to delay my purchase until they depreciate for about ten years 😂
Question for next episode.
Are we forced into using the matrix metering? I'm kind of used to the centre weighted metering.
You can choose center-weighted, spot or multifield. All will use the sensor for accurate metering.
Will wait for the m11p or m11r.. I prefer no red dot on the camera coz it's all about keeping a low profile 👌
I loved my worn out faded Leicas and I think brassing looks more beautiful on a black M. I hope they offer a black M11 with a brass plate in the future.
Hopefully, we see black lacquer over brass on special edition cameras in the future. We're big fans of this finish and of natural brassing as well.
Will Leica make a case with a grip and build in finger loop ?
Thanks for sharing guys. Will David be making a M11 profile for lightroom?
When Adobe/Leica roll out full support for the M11, David will work on import presets.
Hi David and Josh. I have just ordered a Silver Chrome M11 here in Australia (with handgrip, visoflex and thumbs up). I have a 50mm Summicron in chrome over brass and decided to also get the 50 Summilux as it also is chrome over brass,,,,, or is it. I have tried to find out, many of the various Leica store websites still label it as silver chrome as opposed to silver anodised, butI have not been able to ascertain whether or not it is brass or aluminium., It is not a big thing, simply I would like the finishes to match. Websites still also list it at 470 gm which seems to me to be the brass barrel as opposed to 335 for the aluminium barrel. Again, not a problem, but now I have my curiosity piqued and now I must know lol… can you help
Yes, the 50 Summilux-M ASPH in Silver is chrome over brass.
Isn’t the VF patch on the M11 with round corners vs squared in the M10?
That's correct. The VF focusing patch does have rounded corners, unlike other modern M cameras.
If I use a fast charging adapter, will that ruin battery life?
Could you do a comparison of image quality, especially sides and corners, between SL2-S and M11, please?
I am interested in the way wide angle lenses are handled. Nothing extreme, let’s say 24mm Elmar and 35mm FLE. I am asking as I remember M series sensors had these special optics to allow handling wide angle lenses’ corner smearing. My understanding is SL2-S’ sensor doesn’t have that, but wondered if it matters in real life examples with just a tad of pixel peeping. 😇
All Leica sensors are optimized to handle the high angle of incidence of wide angle M lenses. As such, the SL2 and SL2-S work wonderfully with M lenses. The M11 might be a touch better due to the new ultra-thin dual layer sensor filter glass and short pixel well depth. We could certainly do a comparison but normalizing between 24MP and 60MP might be a challenge.
@@RedDotForum I actually own an M10. Have you maybe had a chance to compare between these two, M10 and SL2-S?
great video! you guys are blinding me with the Submariners! Is that a 124060 and a 126610LV? I have them both! Love seeing them here! Can't wait to get my M11 and M11 monochrome of course!
Correct on Josh, but David doesn't have a Submariner. He's wearing a 116710LN GMT Master II but has swapped out the standard Oyster bracelet with PCLs for a brushed 92700 with Glidelock (for a 40mm Sub). Yes, we're super big watch nerds too. It's not just cameras.
@@RedDotForum I couldn't see the date and took a guess...That's awesome...and yes as a true watch nerd...I have that model GMT as well! That's a great idea with swapping with a Glidelock, as the clasp is a weak aspect of the bracelet for the 116710..Such a great video on the M11, it's so indepth and I am more excited than I was even this morning when I ordered it! So much great news and learned it all here. thank you for making this video!
2 hours video is a lot :) 2 most importants things I’d like to know guys : how is the startup time and shutter sound comparing to M10P ? The 10P is pretty slow to start (almost 2 sec.), but almost silent. Seems like no one talk about theses 2 essentials things. Thanks
Startup time is similar, although rarely noticed in practical shooting scenarios. Either the camera is in sleep mode and waked quickly by half-pressing the shutter, or you turn the camera on before lifting up to your eye. In all of our test shooting, we never really noticed the start-up time one way or another.
The shutter is the same as that in the M10-P and M10-R, so very quiet.
@@RedDotForum Thanks for responding, good to know the shutter is like M10P silent :)
I do half press the shutter before lifting up the camera, but still very slow comparing to any others digital cameras on today's market, still occasionally miss some shots, 2 sec is a lot on street/action shots. All my friends, M10 users, complain about the slow wakeup, not a deal breaker, just a pain for such a great & $$$ camera, kind of sucks they didn't fix that. Again, any other today's camera on the market are just faster...just a fact.
Thanks
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@@RedDotForum ma tu
Thank you!! My question is how do vintage lens (1950〜70) perform on the M11?
We will be taking a deep dive into this very subject! Stay tuned.
Is there any downside from staying in the 36 megapixel mode?
As an M10 user, 24 megapixels is good but the bump to 36 is enough to be useful without hindering my current workflow much. I’ve played with SL2 files and those are a doozy, 60 just feels like overkill (for the eventually SL3 I’d like if they only went up 50MP still and then focused on making the other elements of the camera much more powerful and potent btw) Sure for landscapes and cityscapes and specific tripod work, I’d use 60 where you get crazy detail and can zoom in forever.
But for the most part I’d like to stay in 36, unless there was some issues that aren’t obvious from the information out there by Leica and various reviews at this moment.
I can only imagine a world where the M10-R never came out and the M11 was just made as a 36 megapixel camera, oh how simple that would be.
There is no real downside to using the M-DNG setting for 36MP output. Dynamic range, ISO performance, color, etc. is equivalent between L-DNG (60MP) and M-DNG (36MP). Shooting in full resolution does provide more options for post-shot cropping though.
As far as workflow goes, any of the newest generation CPUs handle the 60MP DNG files easily. The M1 Pro and M1 Max MacBook Pro laptops work great, as do Windows laptops with 11th and 12th Generation Intel i7 and i9, or 5000-series AMD Ryzen chips. And desktop machines are more powerful still.
This has probably been asked a hundred times but do you use Leica gear to record these RUclips videos? Thanks for all you do!
We do! For our RUclips videos, we use two Leica SL2-S cameras in studio, one with a 24-90 and the other with a 90-280. We shoot at ISO 1600 in UHD 30p. Video is output over HDMI in 10-bit 422 in L-Log.
Request for next M11 show: Can you show how the Silver M11 looks with the black handgrip on it since the silver one is not yet available?
Sure thing!
They put an aluminum top on the black because everyone wants it in brass. They know the caps should be the other way around. Expect a black brass cap with a hefty markup.
Actually the proverbial “everyone” wanted a lighter camera. That being said they will probably do some kind of black painted brass edition some day just like with the M10 when they did the M10-R black paint edition.
I am waiting for Leica m12 which has 100Mp resolution and IBIS and autofocus lens and so on.. meanwhile I am using Leica MP
Im REALLY considering selling my SL and L mount lenses and jump ship to an M11. I knew I shouldnt have tested my friend's M10.
Leica should make a Q series with 35 mm
You're not alone in this request.
the biggest downside to not having the bottom plate is that if u ever hit the bottom of the camera near battery, it may prevent it from ejecting. had this issue with the SL. It ended up being an expensive repair. Just for that reason i wouldnt mind keeping the plate even though its an extra step
with that visoflex David becomes "Davitus of Borg"
Rather surprised at the size of the Visoflex 2…with todays Technology, they can’t make it somewhat smaller? All of the Leica’s external viewfinders over the years have always been such bulky items. I’m sure it’s amazing, but I’m still surprised at the bulkiness of the size.
I'm guessing the dimensions are a function of the size of the larger 0.66-inch EVF panel used, combined with the optics necessary for a large, bright view with good eye relief and generous diopter range. Compared to the viewfinder bump on the SL2, the Visoflex is actually quite compact.
1:00:15
Well… shooting fuji…ooc is not to rare.. 🤣
I am just going to wait for the M12. This is not that impressive! Just kidding. Awesome camera for a price of a small town home in WVA :)
1:26:46
Yeah but it still blows highlights.
Every digital camera will blow highlights, but the M11 has more ability to recover those highlights than other cameras that we've used in the past. Our usual advice still applies - protect the highlights by underexposing in high contrast situations.
I like this channel and I like using Leica a lot but I really can’t see anything game changing about the M11 and you guys keep saying this “game changer” thing a lot in this video.
For us, it's not one single thing, but the sum of all the cumulative improvements that make the M11 so compelling. The camera has all-day battery life, USB charging on the go, 60MP sensor with triple resolution DNG, stabilized live view, new EVF, medium-format-like 15-stops of DR, low base ISO with exceptional high ISO performance, all in a familiar, iconic body.
@@RedDotForum I respect your opinion but besides the excellent battery life there is nothing game changing in the M11.
Even a mobile phone can be charged on the go. I prefer my dust and whether proof Q2 without a USB-C port.
60MP is already on the market.
Triple resolution isn’t anything amazing and you can always change the resolution later.
There is a lot of cameras with stabilized sensors not only live view.
There is a lot of cameras with amazing DR.
There is plenty of cameras with great high ISO performance and ISO 100 is low enough anyway.
So to me there is nothing “game changing”. The camera is beautiful and I’m glad the body is similar to the M6 or MP and your marketing should stick to the core values of photography or your designing team should really come up with an innovative technology to say it is changing the game. For example a hybrid viewfinder and not something that you have put on top of the body and destroy the look of this beauty ✌🏻
@30:25 the new display is also "100% sRGB". That is ok for JPEG, but it's past time to go P3 on top of the line products.
YMMV, but as someone who creates content primarily for web and RUclips, most of my finished work is being exported in sRGB. And I never shoot JPG.
@@RedDotForum Makes sense, but work apart, I love enjoying photos on a proper wide-gamut display. I’ll never go back to sRGB. I think color gamut is more important than spatial resolution. As a matter of fact, discussing about sensor color rendering requires using a wide color gamut display.
The joe rogan of leica news!!! 🤣
Don't waste your money for M11, Leica is totally running out of ideas just like Apple iphone
There are 40 improvements on the M11 from the already-refined M10.
So you mean if tourists are not professional photographer or enthusiast like you guys and taking photos with LCD rather than range finder or evf, they are called "dumb tourist"? That's very... shallow of you.. shame on you.
Two camera geeks who wear Rolex Submariner that's so not fit... Better wear citizen or Seiko. Or Grand Seiko or Longines or Omega. Rolex Submariner? So not matching..