Two Car Garage: You've always fancied yourself pretty handy behind the wheel and your dominance in the fast group at GoldTrack track days seems to support this. During a recent drive back home from Silverstone in your Manthey prepped GT3 RS you were listening to a podcast and one of the hosts in an off hand remark said "If you really think you're quick - go racing ". You didn't really pay much notice to it but in the coming days and weeks it began to eat away at you from within. Eventually you couldn't handle the self-doubt anymore and with a heavy heart put up your cherished GT3RS for sale up on collecting cars where as usual it sold quickly for 175k. You now have to spend that money on a race or rally car and a tow car.
I'll stick up for Audi during Piech's reign, particularly the period 1978-95. They were very innovative with engineering. Inline 5, quattro, procon-ten, aluminium space frame. The A2 and A8 were very cleverly engineered cars. I own a 1990 Audi 90 20v, their last non turbo straight 5 cylinder. This was not a 'jazz hands' car. Totally understated and underrated. It came with a stainless steel, equal length tubular exhaust manifold from the factory. Who else was doing that? It's a work of art yet hidden. Also had twin pot floating calipers on the front, ABS (switchable), forged wishbones, aluminium inlet manifold with long runners, alloy sump, Bosch electronic fuel injection, cross-flow 20v head and a very characterful, tough engine that loves 7k. The B3 80/90 was more than just a good anti-corrosion warranty (zinc galvanised panels was a big deal at the time, anyway). The dash and instrumentation design are very good. Love the VDO dials. Good safe, solidly built, comfortable, capable, individual car. Again, good drag coefficient. The B3 was quite a leap in 1986/7. I do agree that Audi is just for posers these days, I dislike modern Audi, but they did once have real engineering integrity and prowess coupled with a genuinely understated image. They have had great success in motorsport. Audi were incredible in the US, on tarmac circuits and dirt tracks: 1986 & 87 at Pikes Peak with the Sport quattro S1, 1988 with the 200 quattro Trans-am and in 1989 with the 90 IMSA GTO. Successful too in German Touring Cars, early 1990s with the new Audi V8 and in the UK, mid 1990s with the A4 quattro. Give them some credit! Wrt to road cars, it's not just about what cars set your pants on fire when driven hard, it's about what they're like to use, own and live with.
So good to have the banter back. So sad when you took a break. Look forward to it every Friday. The weekend has arrived. Geeking out on a very English take on all things automotive, with plenty of gratuitous and hilarious sledging. Particularly enjoyed the Blackadder Lord Melchett reference. Bravo!
Not sure I agree with all the criticism for Audi. After having many Mercedes and BMWs for a good few years, I changed my wife's 2018 5 Series Touring for a new Audi A4 S-Line. Our first ever Audi in the family and honestly, it's great and wondering why we never got one before. Did consider a new 3 Series, but we're not liking the current BMW design and massive nostrils and the interior didn't seem much different from the 5 Series. The new C-Class didn't quite do it for us and so we thought we'd try an Audi. Interior is great, perfect balance of actual buttons vs touch screen things, very solid and quiet, no rattles etc like we've experienced in new Mercs and BM's, and no cheap materials used in the interior like Mercedes do in certain places. The drive is not quite as sporty as a BMW, and not quite as luxurious and wafty as a Mercedes, but it's somewhere in between and strikes a good balance. For reference I drive a 992 GTS, and so the Audi is the family car which I end up driving a fair amount too. I find the Audi feels more expensive than it actually is, and it is nice to drive a smooth comfortable car for the longer journeys. It has a great spec which includes the B&O 3D Surround System which is very good. Also, the fact that Porsche essentially use the same platforms as Audi in the Macan (Q5), Cayenne (Q7) and Taycan (GT eTron), and share the same Audi V6 engines in some models, then I guess Audi deserves some credit perhaps.
I totally feel where you re coming from, especially when it comes to the interior design. I generally despise the touchscreen trend but among those having adapted it, I d clearly argue Audi did the best job at it. Just like you, I also find Mercedes lackluster in terms of material quality and the newly added LED bling makes it rather worse (point of reference: GLE/ Eclass). Whilst I do like Merc s overall design language trend, I agree that somehow the C class doesn t cut it. Audi excels at feeling sturdy and well made inside and that s actually something I really love, the quality feel is there but without fuss or faking. Same thoughts regarding BMW, I d stress their fairly mediocre interior and too strong minimalist touch bias as a negative point more...let alone the awful exterior design of most models and their trends is towards getting even worse. When it comes to driving, yes they re more neutral but not in a bad way, it s a good middle ground and I like their steering feel better than BMW s, they somehow had to bridge less of a gap when it comes to the transition from hydraulic to electric steering, I d say that played in Audi s hands as BMW lost a very major selling point. Like you, I also got a Porsche, a more pedestrian Cayman GTS but hey...and God do I like all those buttons around the centre console they ve been criticized for so much... .
The A4 feels balanced for touch and analog buttons because its old and outdated. BMW had 2 generations and 3 facelifts since the B9 came out…. Same with Merc. But I do think its a good car😊
I think you sit in one of two camps. I'm in the "change is the only constant" camp and favour BMW try hard design over Audis "sloth design principle". For every BMW I hate the look of (G87 M2 sticks out for me at the moment), there's another that is more "wow" (i3, i8, F87 M2 etc.) If you took the age identifying number plates of any 3-box Audi over the past decade they all look the same. Yawn fest loses over derring do.
Two Car Garage: You’ve just robbed a bank on the edge of Barcelona. You need an unassuming getaway car to drive all the way to Switzerland where you’ll be storing it away. You need a second car that you can drive around Zurich where you’ll be spending the next months making some new friends in the finance industry. You have 70k to spend on both cars.
2 car garage idea, You have recently become a new father in your mid 20s! Congratulations! One of the cars needs to be large enough to carry the seemingly unbelievably bulky pram and bassinet, and all the other bits and bobs that can come with it. The other car is a fun weekend toy. Both of these cars need to be reliable and be as cheap as possible to maintain as youre still getting on the property ladder. Max budget of 20k. Best of luck solving my crisis! And thank you for these podcasts, they have gotten me through many night feeds!! Much love
48:38 I'm 100% up for that. Mr Cooper is a magnificent orator. I hate how you can configure things, but only on certain models, and picking one option limits others. I want to configure my car, not pick from 5 pre-selected options. "oh you want the yellow seatbelts? only available on the 4S, but that also means you can't have the black wheels" etc. Spurious example to illustrate point btw.
You guys forgot about the artful “Karmann Ghia” badge on the boot lid of every VWKG ever made. How DARE you all! 😂😂😂. The 964/993 comparison was brilliant too. I await your podcast every week, and then only listen with earbuds so as not to miss any subtleties. Thank you all from Chicago!
Another excellent show gents, thank you! It’s almost like you read my mind, I am currently debating a Bentley continental gt v8s as a (insert man maths reason for needing this car here) I think that for 50-60k they are incredibly good value…the bills are to be feared but surely the one I get will be one of the good ones 🤔 Another depreciation bargain with bills to fear that I also want to get is a L405 Range Rover 4.4tdv8 autobiography (work horse replacement for my 1999 gen3 hilux surf perhaps)… I think you can see that our illness is deeply rooted within me 😂 So, onto my two car garage suggestion. In the spirit of Chris Cooper, I’m going to give you some foreplay that goes on far too long. We currently have a 718 Spyder. Please don’t hate us Chris but it is a PDK! The reason for this I would like to explain. This car was spec’d by the wife and I to fulfil a specific purpose, to make memories together. We have grand plans to travel all over Europe (possibly further) for years to come and I intend to be buried in it! Ok, back to the PDK thing. While on holiday a couple of years ago we were lucky enough to drive along the Amalfi coast in a 1961 alfa giulietta spider, we then headed over the mountain to Pompeii for a walk around the ruins and a spot of coffee in town… that was all lovely stuff. What wasn’t so lovely was getting stuck in a 3 hour traffic jam in that car on the way back to our hotel (you know the umbrella style handbrake under the dash and a relatively heavy clutch based on modern standards). Lesson learned, road trip car has to be PDK and with the 718 Spyder 1/2 of my garage is complete. Now for the 1/2 that is yet to be completed. Tying in nicely with tonight’s episode, I always thought that the classic 911 I would have would be a 964 coupe of some description but would you believe it, I’ve became all tenty about a 930 turbo these days! I initially wanted to try and get a flachbau but I now prefer the curvaceous original turbo front and I really really want it in the light metallic bronze/gold. If I could get that with the g50 gearbox then that would complete my forever 2 car garage. What would your, no budget, 2 Porsche forever garages be gents? 😬
I did a little fist pump on my commute this morning when I heard Chris Cooper pick the copper Lotus (absolutely with skis!) from FYEO. One of my all time favourite movie cars. Really need to buy one. This podcast is a gift, cheers guys 🍻
So I know this is a week late and I see there is a part deux on Audi, but I have always found Audi’s and fast VWs to be excellent point to point vehicles… they might not go sideways on a track or have the sharpest, most engaging steering, but if you want to go quickly along backroads in a predictable, easy and safe way - an Audi RS is the business, same with Golf R. And in all weather. I agree that they could be more engaging etc… but going fast in a posh VW across country on all kinds of roads and in all conditions is a worthy design spec imo.
Brilliant show, I have been addicted since the beginning and sadly even watch repeats!! My current pet hate are front indicators that are embedded within the front lights. I drive on A roads living in the Alps, and with daytime running lights you can never see if they are turning into your junction and sometimes I wait to let them pass and they turn in, which is frustrating, as you only see them at 20 metres. Keep it up gents!!
Bloody brilliant, as usual. How about a topic covering dashboard lighting and the fact it illuminates with DRL's, even when the lights aren't on. Cue the number of tools driving around with no proper lights on at dusk/night - no lights at all at the rear... merrily plodding along at 50 on the motorway, their chin sat on the top of the steering wheel, whilst carnage ensues all around them.
I always like the Bangle designed 6 series with those huge rear lights. The M6 shown in 53:42 is absolutely beautiful. Cab, 650, 6-speed, full leather is the way to go.
that song slaps - had i not known before that he's my kind of dude, i would've when he recommended BAP's "Verdamp lang her" (and the accompanying, legendary DTM video) the other week.
I defo want to hear more dealer stories / insider knowledge etc from Ed. Love it. Find it fascinating what goes on haha. Roma's been pretty naughty on depreciation. Only one worse is the 488 which was a brilliant car but they made far too many.
Excellent choice of "Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick", what a song. The motoring connection to Ian Dury is that he used to live across the road from Stirling Moss
My experience of Audi dealerships has meant that I have never had to suffer the ownership of one. They have never tried to sell me their cars with one event being that they refused to give me a quote unless I was agreeing to buy the car!!?? WTF. This has been the same over 20+ years. I know lots of other people love them, but not me. Well done guys, another great episode!
Your comment just reminded me of something similar that happened to me, I had actually ordered one and I got a phone call 3 months before it was due for delivery (factory at maximum capacity at the time) to say that my car was arriving in 7 days. I still had a private plate on the car that I was trading in and wasn’t ready to take delivery. I agreed to go in in talk to the sales adviser and at which point I found out that the car didn’t have the spec I ordered, it was just the same colour as the one I ordered… they were adamant that this was my car, which I disputed, but they told me to take it or leave it so I got my money back and have never been back through their door since.
Two car garage- you are asked to do a photoshoot for a high end watch magazine. Choose a watch, location and 2 cars. 1 car to get to the location, and 1 to appear in the photoshoot with the watch.
Suggestion for a new feature: Justify My Car! Each member of the panel nominates another to justify the purchase of a particular car from the classifieds. Gotta be some humour there and each member should keep this skill finely honed in case of dubious purchases in future....
Totally on board with Neil's "let's buy bentleys" mantra. My 89 Turbo R, i bought for 10% of its new purchase price, and it's an experience that you cant replicated for 3x the price. Of course it's not cheap to run, but when it's all working it's fabulous.
Bonds classic should be a bright red Aston V600 vantage from the 90's and the modern should be a Callum design Vanquish in BRG (none of this new age rubbish) great podcast please don't take another break as it's my Friday walk from walk listening! and my song for this week is sweet caroline status quo 👍
That was amazing..... Chris Cooper... as I was thinking exactly the same thing.... then suggested that the M635csi has gone from good to bad..... and not just that....... he suggested for exactly the same reason!! I used to love that car, but now, as designers have realized that shallow windows and deeper doors looks better, which they absolutely do, the BMW now looks to me to be soooooo top heavy with a huge glasshouse that looks almost ridiculous!!
Have to agree with Chris Harris, Prisencolinensinainciusol is a brilliant track. Thank you chaps. I went to the recent coffee run at Bicester and saw you. Chris was trying to sell his TWAT glasses to the crowd and the PA system was on the fritz. I had the pleasure of meeting Neil Clifford. What an absolute gentleman
Audi are an enigma, I have always had a leaning towards them in a motorsport sense as I was lucky enough to be around and out watching the Quattro’s in rallying back in the early 80’s, and the impact they had on the fans/spectators was just incredible. In all the years since I have never seen a motorsport programme have such an effect. Also, their motorsport department has always done the business and really put BMW to shame on track, everyone goes on about the E30 M3’s, but Audi turned up in the DTM with a limo and beat them, twice! Rally, Trans-Am, IMSA, Pikes Peak, DTM, Le Mans, BTCC, they have done the lot and won and now they are heading to F1. Let’s see what happens there. But for all that, I have never owned one. Mercs and BM’s, I’ve had plenty, currently own an M5 Comp, didn’t even consider an RS6….I agree their cars don’t inspire, and knowing they are not stand alone developed products takes the shine off for me.
Another great podcast, guys you are the best, about Audi must say R8 is still my wall poster😊 and about cars that depreciate the most: Chrysler 300 V8, Audi A8, ... Future classic are for me all the last hothaches like Fiesta ST, i20N, ... Can't wait for next week 😍🍷
Hmm, that explains why it never crossed my mind to buy an Audi, even after I drove some. Funny enough, after I rented an A6 Avant 4L, I purchased a Volcanic Orange Mini Clubman S....and never looked back.😊
Your comments about Audi are funny I have to say. Well engineered everyday cars, almost always better built than both BMW and Mercedes. Some dull RS cars and some extremely good ones, but they build what people actually want, and what sells. The ground they've made up on BMW and Mercedes in a couple of decades is phenomenal. Also a more successful racing outfit than BMW by a very very very long way, pretty equal to Mercedes depending on how you value Le Mans v F1.
Two car garage idea: There are two pre-selected car configurators. Let the chaps have at it, compare end results and discuss. It's such a brilliant idea I'll thumbsup my own comment!
The 200 quattro 20v; the Sportquattro; the first R8 ; the RS2 and the Urquattro have been great cars. Even the 4.2 V8 first Gen was exciting for Audi - so was the v12 TDI Diesel Q7
I agree with most of your criticism about AUDI. But to claim they've NEVER built a looker? How come no-one mentions the glorious D2 A8 and especially th S8? Surely, that has to be one of the most elegant large cars ever made.
A font which time and again I think just looks nigh on perfect for the time was the model designation for the 5 Series E39 eg '530i' - looks slightly oversized compared with what came after but for that model of car it was just spot on.
Fantastic to have the team back on top form. The only thing I would commend Audi on, apart from the original Quattro and the super slippery 100, is the quality of their interiors in the 2010s, until Mercedes poached the head of interior design and the bean-counters took full control. Otherwise they have always been held back by the generic VW fwd architecture they were based on (and hence the focus on the interior).
Give me an alternative to the Q5, please. Must tow >4000lbs, AWD is necessary, better than V8 fuel economy, inexpensive to maintain, and an affordable entry price. I can't find a better daily driver for the average person that has an outdoor lifestyle, and, yes, I have a couple of fun cars in the garage because of this. Sometimes this podcast forgets that we can't all afford to run a brand new M5 and have a Range Rover next to it.
American Chapter of Collecting Addicts. We're still as dealer markup on new 911. Even base. (It's legal in our state) Turbo S is still RRP + $50,000 I had a guy in this week who paid RRP + $125,000 just last year. Did not dare provide him with a trade number. Told him to keep enjoying his car. Even a base 911 is RRP + $10. And before you start a pile on, I'm not a dealer so please do not shoot the messenger. Much love. Oh, we sold a 992 3RS for 2x sticker recently.
I think this was a fair assessment of Audi chaps. In the days when I was running a BMW dealership (80's), the Audi Quattro was pretty much the only car that I lusted over - particularly the updated version when the wider wheels filled the arches out and the digital dash seemed so Avant Garde. The B7 RS4 Avant is very good looking with the bodywork seemingly melted over the wheels, I am also very fond of the C5 RS6 plus Avant, But you are right in that the weight distribution spoils the driving experience. High depreciation....S-Class Mercedes-Benz take some beating! Typography....I still love the Ferrari lettering (I believe it is called Ferro Rosso) I love the way the top of the 'F' extends to the 'i', also the Pininfarina font (Top Speed font) is pretty iconic. At the risk of earning the pedant of the week award....the 1100/1300 Vanden Plas was an Austin, not Morris Neil. My Mother used to have them in the 60's. Sorry Neil. I think the E28 5 series has weathered better than any of the subsequent 5 series, (maybe I am just stuck in the 80's!). I actually like the 'glassy cabin' look, I followed a 3.0 CSL the other day....an extreme example of 'large glasshouse'. In my BMW days the E28 M5 was the car to have....now (maybe a function of age), I find the M635 far more enticing....classic BMW design. Modern small slitty rear lights, just don't work (functionally), 80's rear lights were huge and you could clearly see a drivers intentions when following behind. Modern lights are so small that when braking and indicating with direct sunlight, the indicators cannot be seen!
I had a 993 a couple of decades back, and now a 964. Absolutely agree- I once thought the 993 was the best of the 911s aesthetically, but more recently changed my views on this: The 964 is the classic shape, losing the “accordion” bumpers while keeping the svelte proportions of the original. It seems to grow better every year as the new ones look more like handsome blobs.
My 2 car garage suggestion: You have £30,000 to spend on two track day weapons. However, there is a catch, one has to be totally unmodified and good enough to drive to the track and back home in comfort while still being fun on the circuit. The other, slightly cheaper of the two track day cars, is a car to be taken on the back of a trailer and driven on the track only. This car can be modified; brakes, suspension etc. Pick wisely, and I fear the budget may be broken on this one!
My 2 car garage 50% matched Mr Harris. I also had the MG RV8, in BRG imported from Japan (not sure why most ended up there but anyway). For the modern version I pick the MG Cyberster EV. MG4 is selling itself but the Cyberster may need a bit more help. Looks a good car, names shit!
You guys are a little too harsh about Audi. For most people cars are just appliances. My wife has an Audi S5 sportback and loves it. Very practical, comfortable and plenty of power. Clearly not a "drivers car" but very good at what it does.
In keeping with the rule bending (breaking) nature of the two car garage and Neil's sartorial bent I would like to propose a 2 car garage for next week, with a twist. It's called, simply, Always - Sometimes - Never When wearing a three buttoned blazer, you are apparently supposed to follow the rule, relating to the doing up of the buttons from the top down, of Always, Sometime, Never. You must buy 3 cars. One to drive always (a daily), one to drive sometimes (weekends, track days) and one to drive never (because it's too scary or valuable). Cheers! Alex
2 car garage Giving a toast at your boss’ wedding, you compared him to an audi and his wife to an evoque convertible. At the time they took it as compliments. Your podcast has now revealed the truth. And you now find yourself assigned to starting the arctic branch of your car collecting/media platform. You will be spending the next couple of years in northern scandinavia meeting with industry people and car enthusiasts. Your two car garage needs one fun but safe car to handle the winter months, and one fun car for the summertime. Snow is expected from late september until may so choose wisely. At the same time summer is short and you need to extract as much fun and sunlight as possible. Your budget is 80.000 £, good luck!
What an outstanding show with great topics, thanks for this one! Strongly disagree regarding Audi s interior design. in terms of functionality and materials it s still among the best if not the best, think Mercedes got the design quite right but lacks in the department of materials (and my point of reference there is actually the GLE and Eclass so not the entry level) whilst BMW totally overdoes it (almost as bad as VW) in terms of touchscreens and I don t like their trend towards overly minimalist looks over functionality. I admit to be a fan of buttons and proper haptic feedback over anything touch in general and almost all get the bias wrong in my book but Audi scores points in terms of materials, general feel and intuition (despite being touch heavy). In terms of exterior design, hell yeah, Audi broke itself with the single frame boredom and for the past 3 years they try to make up for that with fake holes and gaps. They had their high time in the mid 2000s but clearly lost ground the past decade. BMW lol, design wise an absolute nightmare with a trend of getting worse. Thanks so much for bringing up the Bristol, they used to be the sleeper, the Rolls Royce/ Bentley for true conoisseurs (clearly not less expensive at least) but in terms of Bond, ah well, I just have to go for Aston esp given the DB12 seems to be such a treat both outside and now also inside, props to the orange Esprit though, the MG pitch is also interesting, they d even have a roadster now but the more pedestrian mainstream model is a good pick. The one Ferrari I despised when new and I secretly lust after now would be the 612, also didn t quite like the 599 but I do nowadays but the starkest change of mind thing would clearly be the 612. Never liked the 550 or the 575 (=worse) so they wouldn t match your conditions.
I remember my first memory of an Audi was when a friend’s dad got an Audi 80 in the late 80s - it looked different from all the other saloons with its stubby boot (with a mechanism i found fascinating), the quality of the interior was something else compared with what I’d been in before and it even had headphone sockets in the back. Then with the system they had of pulling the steering wheel away from the driver before airbags properly came along (procon ten or something?) and the original A8 a few years later and its pioneering use of aluminium I grew up associating Audi’s as being an innovative company and later reinforced when they launched the A2 - a car which my father in law still owns 20 years after getting his and loves. But - yeah - agree with all that was said. Not a brand that appeals to me anymore.
Great Podcast! I would like to hear you thoughts on Le Man 24, with more manufactorers joining the Hyper Cars, and what this means for Le Man and the sport in general. Also whats your thoughts on the future of the Privateer teams such as Jota
Time to sit back with my favorite 5 friends on the internet that I’ve sadly never met!!! Thanks always for the love of cars!!!!!
I’d love to meet them, but frankly I would be to awestruck to speak
Two Car Garage:
You've always fancied yourself pretty handy behind the wheel and your dominance in the fast group at GoldTrack track days seems to support this. During a recent drive back home from Silverstone in your Manthey prepped GT3 RS you were listening to a podcast and one of the hosts in an off hand remark said "If you really think you're quick - go racing ". You didn't really pay much notice to it but in the coming days and weeks it began to eat away at you from within. Eventually you couldn't handle the self-doubt anymore and with a heavy heart put up your cherished GT3RS for sale up on collecting cars where as usual it sold quickly for 175k. You now have to spend that money on a race or rally car and a tow car.
.....Which cars would you choose for your race wheels and what would you choose to tow it. Budget 100K.
These guys should be the hosts of Top gear. This is the chemistry that show needs.
Best automotive podcast on RUclips
Easily
Totally
I'll stick up for Audi during Piech's reign, particularly the period 1978-95. They were very innovative with engineering. Inline 5, quattro, procon-ten, aluminium space frame. The A2 and A8 were very cleverly engineered cars.
I own a 1990 Audi 90 20v, their last non turbo straight 5 cylinder. This was not a 'jazz hands' car. Totally understated and underrated. It came with a stainless steel, equal length tubular exhaust manifold from the factory. Who else was doing that? It's a work of art yet hidden. Also had twin pot floating calipers on the front, ABS (switchable), forged wishbones, aluminium inlet manifold with long runners, alloy sump, Bosch electronic fuel injection, cross-flow 20v head and a very characterful, tough engine that loves 7k. The B3 80/90 was more than just a good anti-corrosion warranty (zinc galvanised panels was a big deal at the time, anyway). The dash and instrumentation design are very good. Love the VDO dials. Good safe, solidly built, comfortable, capable, individual car. Again, good drag coefficient. The B3 was quite a leap in 1986/7.
I do agree that Audi is just for posers these days, I dislike modern Audi, but they did once have real engineering integrity and prowess coupled with a genuinely understated image.
They have had great success in motorsport. Audi were incredible in the US, on tarmac circuits and dirt tracks: 1986 & 87 at Pikes Peak with the Sport quattro S1, 1988 with the 200 quattro Trans-am and in 1989 with the 90 IMSA GTO. Successful too in German Touring Cars, early 1990s with the new Audi V8 and in the UK, mid 1990s with the A4 quattro. Give them some credit!
Wrt to road cars, it's not just about what cars set your pants on fire when driven hard, it's about what they're like to use, own and live with.
So good to have the banter back. So sad when you took a break. Look forward to it every Friday. The weekend has arrived. Geeking out on a very English take on all things automotive, with plenty of gratuitous and hilarious sledging. Particularly enjoyed the Blackadder Lord Melchett reference. Bravo!
Such a great show/podcast. It feels like I'm on the call with the guys. Keep wanting to interject with my own 'valuable' automotive insights.
Surprised by not even a single mention of the A8 in the Audi discussion.
Not sure I agree with all the criticism for Audi. After having many Mercedes and BMWs for a good few years, I changed my wife's 2018 5 Series Touring for a new Audi A4 S-Line. Our first ever Audi in the family and honestly, it's great and wondering why we never got one before. Did consider a new 3 Series, but we're not liking the current BMW design and massive nostrils and the interior didn't seem much different from the 5 Series. The new C-Class didn't quite do it for us and so we thought we'd try an Audi. Interior is great, perfect balance of actual buttons vs touch screen things, very solid and quiet, no rattles etc like we've experienced in new Mercs and BM's, and no cheap materials used in the interior like Mercedes do in certain places. The drive is not quite as sporty as a BMW, and not quite as luxurious and wafty as a Mercedes, but it's somewhere in between and strikes a good balance. For reference I drive a 992 GTS, and so the Audi is the family car which I end up driving a fair amount too. I find the Audi feels more expensive than it actually is, and it is nice to drive a smooth comfortable car for the longer journeys. It has a great spec which includes the B&O 3D Surround System which is very good. Also, the fact that Porsche essentially use the same platforms as Audi in the Macan (Q5), Cayenne (Q7) and Taycan (GT eTron), and share the same Audi V6 engines in some models, then I guess Audi deserves some credit perhaps.
Still a soulless box
I totally feel where you re coming from, especially when it comes to the interior design. I generally despise the touchscreen trend but among those having adapted it, I d clearly argue Audi did the best job at it. Just like you, I also find Mercedes lackluster in terms of material quality and the newly added LED bling makes it rather worse (point of reference: GLE/ Eclass). Whilst I do like Merc s overall design language trend, I agree that somehow the C class doesn t cut it. Audi excels at feeling sturdy and well made inside and that s actually something I really love, the quality feel is there but without fuss or faking.
Same thoughts regarding BMW, I d stress their fairly mediocre interior and too strong minimalist touch bias as a negative point more...let alone the awful exterior design of most models and their trends is towards getting even worse. When it comes to driving, yes they re more neutral but not in a bad way, it s a good middle ground and I like their steering feel better than BMW s, they somehow had to bridge less of a gap when it comes to the transition from hydraulic to electric steering, I d say that played in Audi s hands as BMW lost a very major selling point.
Like you, I also got a Porsche, a more pedestrian Cayman GTS but hey...and God do I like all those buttons around the centre console they ve been criticized for so much... .
The A4 feels balanced for touch and analog buttons because its old and outdated. BMW had 2 generations and 3 facelifts since the B9 came out…. Same with Merc. But I do think its a good car😊
I think you sit in one of two camps. I'm in the "change is the only constant" camp and favour BMW try hard design over Audis "sloth design principle". For every BMW I hate the look of (G87 M2 sticks out for me at the moment), there's another that is more "wow" (i3, i8, F87 M2 etc.) If you took the age identifying number plates of any 3-box Audi over the past decade they all look the same. Yawn fest loses over derring do.
The e-tron GT uses a Porsche platform.
Two Car Garage: You’ve just robbed a bank on the edge of Barcelona. You need an unassuming getaway car to drive all the way to Switzerland where you’ll be storing it away. You need a second car that you can drive around Zurich where you’ll be spending the next months making some new friends in the finance industry. You have 70k to spend on both cars.
2 car garage idea,
You have recently become a new father in your mid 20s! Congratulations! One of the cars needs to be large enough to carry the seemingly unbelievably bulky pram and bassinet, and all the other bits and bobs that can come with it. The other car is a fun weekend toy. Both of these cars need to be reliable and be as cheap as possible to maintain as youre still getting on the property ladder. Max budget of 20k. Best of luck solving my crisis! And thank you for these podcasts, they have gotten me through many night feeds!! Much love
48:38 I'm 100% up for that. Mr Cooper is a magnificent orator. I hate how you can configure things, but only on certain models, and picking one option limits others. I want to configure my car, not pick from 5 pre-selected options. "oh you want the yellow seatbelts? only available on the 4S, but that also means you can't have the black wheels" etc. Spurious example to illustrate point btw.
For me, the "Dino" script and also the classic Alfa Romeo script from the 60s are wonderful
I'm shocked at the fact I can sit and listen to them for as long as I do and can't really disagree with any of it. Love it
The very best 90 mins of the week. Thanks so very much lads!
I think the Porsche Lettering on the back of the cars is perfect in terms of font and space between the letters
Haahaaa ! Mr Clifford is on form today ! I agree with his every Audi word. Excellent podcast, thank you all.
Always a great show!
You guys forgot about the artful “Karmann Ghia” badge on the boot lid of every VWKG ever made. How DARE you all! 😂😂😂. The 964/993 comparison was brilliant too. I await your podcast every week, and then only listen with earbuds so as not to miss any subtleties. Thank you all from Chicago!
Only this podcast would make you image James Bond Slplicing birds in the back of an MG4 thing. 😂😂
Another excellent show gents, thank you!
It’s almost like you read my mind, I am currently debating a Bentley continental gt v8s as a (insert man maths reason for needing this car here) I think that for 50-60k they are incredibly good value…the bills are to be feared but surely the one I get will be one of the good ones 🤔
Another depreciation bargain with bills to fear that I also want to get is a L405 Range Rover 4.4tdv8 autobiography (work horse replacement for my 1999 gen3 hilux surf perhaps)… I think you can see that our illness is deeply rooted within me 😂
So, onto my two car garage suggestion. In the spirit of Chris Cooper, I’m going to give you some foreplay that goes on far too long.
We currently have a 718 Spyder. Please don’t hate us Chris but it is a PDK! The reason for this I would like to explain. This car was spec’d by the wife and I to fulfil a specific purpose, to make memories together. We have grand plans to travel all over Europe (possibly further) for years to come and I intend to be buried in it! Ok, back to the PDK thing. While on holiday a couple of years ago we were lucky enough to drive along the Amalfi coast in a 1961 alfa giulietta spider, we then headed over the mountain to Pompeii for a walk around the ruins and a spot of coffee in town… that was all lovely stuff. What wasn’t so lovely was getting stuck in a 3 hour traffic jam in that car on the way back to our hotel (you know the umbrella style handbrake under the dash and a relatively heavy clutch based on modern standards). Lesson learned, road trip car has to be PDK and with the 718 Spyder 1/2 of my garage is complete. Now for the 1/2 that is yet to be completed. Tying in nicely with tonight’s episode, I always thought that the classic 911 I would have would be a 964 coupe of some description but would you believe it, I’ve became all tenty about a 930 turbo these days! I initially wanted to try and get a flachbau but I now prefer the curvaceous original turbo front and I really really want it in the light metallic bronze/gold. If I could get that with the g50 gearbox then that would complete my forever 2 car garage.
What would your, no budget, 2 Porsche forever garages be gents? 😬
Have a 2010 Supersport, they are amazing cars
The A in Alpina’s are autobahns. Just lovely points out the character of these cars.
I did a little fist pump on my commute this morning when I heard Chris Cooper pick the copper Lotus (absolutely with skis!) from FYEO. One of my all time favourite movie cars. Really need to buy one. This podcast is a gift, cheers guys 🍻
So I know this is a week late and I see there is a part deux on Audi, but I have always found Audi’s and fast VWs to be excellent point to point vehicles… they might not go sideways on a track or have the sharpest, most engaging steering, but if you want to go quickly along backroads in a predictable, easy and safe way - an Audi RS is the business, same with Golf R. And in all weather. I agree that they could be more engaging etc… but going fast in a posh VW across country on all kinds of roads and in all conditions is a worthy design spec imo.
Legendary Podcast, absolutely love it.
Brilliant show, I have been addicted since the beginning and sadly even watch repeats!! My current pet hate are front indicators that are embedded within the front lights. I drive on A roads living in the Alps, and with daytime running lights you can never see if they are turning into your junction and sometimes I wait to let them pass and they turn in, which is frustrating, as you only see them at 20 metres. Keep it up gents!!
Thanks for the thought from Neil, I have not had a Crunchie for years, will be buying one today, thanks!
Bloody brilliant, as usual. How about a topic covering dashboard lighting and the fact it illuminates with DRL's, even when the lights aren't on. Cue the number of tools driving around with no proper lights on at dusk/night - no lights at all at the rear... merrily plodding along at 50 on the motorway, their chin sat on the top of the steering wheel, whilst carnage ensues all around them.
We need more of Chris Harris after 5 pints! Even more outspoken and in a good way.
This could be the best of the podcasts yet. Onwards and upwards 💪
"Twix or Crunchie - they're both great" 😂 Neil Clifford Gold!
So, so true regarding my initial favourite 911 being 993 then the switch back to 964 over the years!😊
Ed impresses me more and more. Quiet achiever amongst the loud ones. Love the podcast.
I was just about to post the same thing.
I always like the Bangle designed 6 series with those huge rear lights. The M6 shown in 53:42 is absolutely beautiful. Cab, 650, 6-speed, full leather is the way to go.
Wasn't expecting 'Prisencolinensinainciusol' to be a song choice but alas, Chris never disappoints 😂
that song slaps - had i not known before that he's my kind of dude, i would've when he recommended BAP's "Verdamp lang her" (and the accompanying, legendary DTM video) the other week.
This is such an epic podcast! Look forward to every episode! :D
I defo want to hear more dealer stories / insider knowledge etc from Ed. Love it. Find it fascinating what goes on haha. Roma's been pretty naughty on depreciation. Only one worse is the 488 which was a brilliant car but they made far too many.
Excellent choice of "Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick", what a song.
The motoring connection to Ian Dury is that he used to live across the road from Stirling Moss
My experience of Audi dealerships has meant that I have never had to suffer the ownership of one. They have never tried to sell me their cars with one event being that they refused to give me a quote unless I was agreeing to buy the car!!?? WTF. This has been the same over 20+ years. I know lots of other people love them, but not me. Well done guys, another great episode!
Your comment just reminded me of something similar that happened to me, I had actually ordered one and I got a phone call 3 months before it was due for delivery (factory at maximum capacity at the time) to say that my car was arriving in 7 days. I still had a private plate on the car that I was trading in and wasn’t ready to take delivery. I agreed to go in in talk to the sales adviser and at which point I found out that the car didn’t have the spec I ordered, it was just the same colour as the one I ordered… they were adamant that this was my car, which I disputed, but they told me to take it or leave it so I got my money back and have never been back through their door since.
Two car garage- you are asked to do a photoshoot for a high end watch magazine. Choose a watch, location and 2 cars. 1 car to get to the location, and 1 to appear in the photoshoot with the watch.
Great to see this a regular spot back 💪
Adriano Celentano song is incredible 😂. What a shout from Mr Harris!
Suggestion for a new feature: Justify My Car! Each member of the panel nominates another to justify the purchase of a particular car from the classifieds. Gotta be some humour there and each member should keep this skill finely honed in case of dubious purchases in future....
Totally on board with Neil's "let's buy bentleys" mantra. My 89 Turbo R, i bought for 10% of its new purchase price, and it's an experience that you cant replicated for 3x the price. Of course it's not cheap to run, but when it's all working it's fabulous.
Very informative Harry. Thank you
You guys are smashing this podcast thingy .❤
993 back n 964 front is the great one
I’m hypnotised by the little cars going round on Ed’s table. 😁
I think Audi has such a good rep thanks to its amazing advertising over the years. Really helped the brand’s perception.
Bonds classic should be a bright red Aston V600 vantage from the 90's and the modern should be a Callum design Vanquish in BRG (none of this new age rubbish) great podcast please don't take another break as it's my Friday walk from walk listening! and my song for this week is sweet caroline status quo 👍
That was amazing..... Chris Cooper... as I was thinking exactly the same thing.... then suggested that the M635csi has gone from good to bad..... and not just that....... he suggested for exactly the same reason!! I used to love that car, but now, as designers have realized that shallow windows and deeper doors looks better, which they absolutely do, the BMW now looks to me to be soooooo top heavy with a huge glasshouse that looks almost ridiculous!!
Have to agree with Chris Harris, Prisencolinensinainciusol is a brilliant track.
Thank you chaps. I went to the recent coffee run at Bicester and saw you. Chris was trying to sell his TWAT glasses to the crowd and the PA system was on the fritz. I had the pleasure of meeting Neil Clifford. What an absolute gentleman
Audi are an enigma, I have always had a leaning towards them in a motorsport sense as I was lucky enough to be around and out watching the Quattro’s in rallying back in the early 80’s, and the impact they had on the fans/spectators was just incredible. In all the years since I have never seen a motorsport programme have such an effect. Also, their motorsport department has always done the business and really put BMW to shame on track, everyone goes on about the E30 M3’s, but Audi turned up in the DTM with a limo and beat them, twice! Rally, Trans-Am, IMSA, Pikes Peak, DTM, Le Mans, BTCC, they have done the lot and won and now they are heading to F1. Let’s see what happens there.
But for all that, I have never owned one. Mercs and BM’s, I’ve had plenty, currently own an M5 Comp, didn’t even consider an RS6….I agree their cars don’t inspire, and knowing they are not stand alone developed products takes the shine off for me.
Another great podcast, guys you are the best, about Audi must say R8 is still my wall poster😊 and about cars that depreciate the most: Chrysler 300 V8, Audi A8, ...
Future classic are for me all the last hothaches like Fiesta ST, i20N, ...
Can't wait for next week 😍🍷
I was literally just driving behind a green Morris Vander Plas today in Yokohama! Crazy! 🍀🎌
28:58, I reckon Chris is talking about Hendon way motors here.
Just the correct amount of F1 on this episode! ;)
Hmm, that explains why it never crossed my mind to buy an Audi, even after I drove some. Funny enough, after I rented an A6 Avant 4L, I purchased a Volcanic Orange Mini Clubman S....and never looked back.😊
Nice choice 👍
Brilliant as always 👌
I think the "Espada" logo at the back with a sword piercing the name and making the "E" of Espada is stunning (Spada in Italian means sward). 38:46
“Splice birds” 😂
Your comments about Audi are funny I have to say. Well engineered everyday cars, almost always better built than both BMW and Mercedes. Some dull RS cars and some extremely good ones, but they build what people actually want, and what sells. The ground they've made up on BMW and Mercedes in a couple of decades is phenomenal. Also a more successful racing outfit than BMW by a very very very long way, pretty equal to Mercedes depending on how you value Le Mans v F1.
Yes sir 💪🏼 another great pod boys
Correction Mr Lovett. The 7 series was featured in Tomorrow never dies. Not Goldeneye.
“I’ve got a pone to pick with car configurators” must be the sentence of the week!
Two car garage idea: There are two pre-selected car configurators. Let the chaps have at it, compare end results and discuss. It's such a brilliant idea I'll thumbsup my own comment!
One roll of Collecting Addicts loo roll Free with every 6 pack of Collecting Addicts beer! Bring on the configurator episode.
The 200 quattro 20v; the Sportquattro; the first R8 ; the RS2 and the Urquattro have been great cars. Even the 4.2 V8 first Gen was exciting for Audi - so was the v12 TDI Diesel Q7
Opening comments from Neil, absolutely howling and totally agree.
I agree with most of your criticism about AUDI. But to claim they've NEVER built a looker? How come no-one mentions the glorious D2 A8 and especially th S8? Surely, that has to be one of the most elegant large cars ever made.
Love it boys
I think the M3 Touring is one for a big depreciation hit. The ‘ultimate pack’ cars at £100k will fall a long way once they are out of warranty.
A font which time and again I think just looks nigh on perfect for the time was the model designation for the 5 Series E39 eg '530i' - looks slightly oversized compared with what came after but for that model of car it was just spot on.
Fantastic to have the team back on top form. The only thing I would commend Audi on, apart from the original Quattro and the super slippery 100, is the quality of their interiors in the 2010s, until Mercedes poached the head of interior design and the bean-counters took full control. Otherwise they have always been held back by the generic VW fwd architecture they were based on (and hence the focus on the interior).
I loved my S4; better looking and better fit and finish than the M3 and great to drive
Neil is actually spot on about the 635CSI glasshouse
Give me an alternative to the Q5, please. Must tow >4000lbs, AWD is necessary, better than V8 fuel economy, inexpensive to maintain, and an affordable entry price. I can't find a better daily driver for the average person that has an outdoor lifestyle, and, yes, I have a couple of fun cars in the garage because of this.
Sometimes this podcast forgets that we can't all afford to run a brand new M5 and have a Range Rover next to it.
The Canterbury University Netball Team members have migrated from BMW to Audi en-mass.
American Chapter of Collecting Addicts. We're still as dealer markup on new 911. Even base. (It's legal in our state)
Turbo S is still RRP + $50,000
I had a guy in this week who paid RRP + $125,000 just last year. Did not dare provide him with a trade number. Told him to keep enjoying his car.
Even a base 911 is RRP + $10.
And before you start a pile on, I'm not a dealer so please do not shoot the messenger.
Much love.
Oh, we sold a 992 3RS for 2x sticker recently.
I think this was a fair assessment of Audi chaps.
In the days when I was running a BMW dealership (80's), the Audi Quattro was pretty much the only car that I lusted over - particularly the updated version when the wider wheels filled the arches out and the digital dash seemed so Avant Garde.
The B7 RS4 Avant is very good looking with the bodywork seemingly melted over the wheels, I am also very fond of the C5 RS6 plus Avant, But you are right in that the weight distribution spoils the driving experience.
High depreciation....S-Class Mercedes-Benz take some beating!
Typography....I still love the Ferrari lettering (I believe it is called Ferro Rosso) I love the way the top of the 'F' extends to the 'i', also the Pininfarina font (Top Speed font) is pretty iconic.
At the risk of earning the pedant of the week award....the 1100/1300 Vanden Plas was an Austin, not Morris Neil. My Mother used to have them in the 60's. Sorry Neil.
I think the E28 5 series has weathered better than any of the subsequent 5 series, (maybe I am just stuck in the 80's!). I actually like the 'glassy cabin' look, I followed a 3.0 CSL the other day....an extreme example of 'large glasshouse'.
In my BMW days the E28 M5 was the car to have....now (maybe a function of age), I find the M635 far more enticing....classic BMW design.
Modern small slitty rear lights, just don't work (functionally), 80's rear lights were huge and you could clearly see a drivers intentions when following behind. Modern lights are so small that when braking and indicating with direct sunlight, the indicators cannot be seen!
I had a 993 a couple of decades back, and now a 964. Absolutely agree- I once thought the 993 was the best of the 911s aesthetically, but more recently changed my views on this: The 964 is the classic shape, losing the “accordion” bumpers while keeping the svelte proportions of the original. It seems to grow better every year as the new ones look more like handsome blobs.
My 2 car garage suggestion: You have £30,000 to spend on two track day weapons. However, there is a catch, one has to be totally unmodified and good enough to drive to the track and back home in comfort while still being fun on the circuit. The other, slightly cheaper of the two track day cars, is a car to be taken on the back of a trailer and driven on the track only. This car can be modified; brakes, suspension etc. Pick wisely, and I fear the budget may be broken on this one!
May I add, the modifications of the second car must be within the budget!
So good. So many laughs. Good on you men.
Audi 90 quattro was a fantastic car!!
My 2 car garage 50% matched Mr Harris. I also had the MG RV8, in BRG imported from Japan (not sure why most ended up there but anyway). For the modern version I pick the MG Cyberster EV. MG4 is selling itself but the Cyberster may need a bit more help. Looks a good car, names shit!
I'm with Chris stick an aero-engine in the car but go for a RR Griffon after all you've got a 38ft bonnet/hood so plenty of room :)
YES NEIL! Got the nail on the head for Audi.
Would have said the GMA T.50 as the modern Bond car in the two car garage segment
friday again. give it the berries chaps
You guys are a little too harsh about Audi. For most people cars are just appliances. My wife has an Audi S5 sportback and loves it. Very practical, comfortable and plenty of power. Clearly not a "drivers car" but very good at what it does.
27:44 What is coming?
Maybe you should try a little a3 saloon called RS3 and bring it to a fine German tuner like MM or Abt or so?
In keeping with the rule bending (breaking) nature of the two car garage and Neil's sartorial bent I would like to propose a 2 car garage for next week, with a twist.
It's called, simply, Always - Sometimes - Never
When wearing a three buttoned blazer, you are apparently supposed to follow the rule, relating to the doing up of the buttons from the top down, of Always, Sometime, Never.
You must buy 3 cars.
One to drive always (a daily), one to drive sometimes (weekends, track days) and one to drive never (because it's too scary or valuable).
Cheers!
Alex
2 car garage
Giving a toast at your boss’ wedding, you compared him to an audi and his wife to an evoque convertible. At the time they took it as compliments. Your podcast has now revealed the truth. And you now find yourself assigned to starting the arctic branch of your car collecting/media platform.
You will be spending the next couple of years in northern scandinavia meeting with industry people and car enthusiasts. Your two car garage needs one fun but safe car to handle the winter months, and one fun car for the summertime. Snow is expected from late september until may so choose wisely. At the same time summer is short and you need to extract as much fun and sunlight as possible. Your budget is 80.000 £, good luck!
What an outstanding show with great topics, thanks for this one! Strongly disagree regarding Audi s interior design. in terms of functionality and materials it s still among the best if not the best, think Mercedes got the design quite right but lacks in the department of materials (and my point of reference there is actually the GLE and Eclass so not the entry level) whilst BMW totally overdoes it (almost as bad as VW) in terms of touchscreens and I don t like their trend towards overly minimalist looks over functionality.
I admit to be a fan of buttons and proper haptic feedback over anything touch in general and almost all get the bias wrong in my book but Audi scores points in terms of materials, general feel and intuition (despite being touch heavy).
In terms of exterior design, hell yeah, Audi broke itself with the single frame boredom and for the past 3 years they try to make up for that with fake holes and gaps. They had their high time in the mid 2000s but clearly lost ground the past decade. BMW lol, design wise an absolute nightmare with a trend of getting worse.
Thanks so much for bringing up the Bristol, they used to be the sleeper, the Rolls Royce/ Bentley for true conoisseurs (clearly not less expensive at least) but in terms of Bond, ah well, I just have to go for Aston esp given the DB12 seems to be such a treat both outside and now also inside, props to the orange Esprit though, the MG pitch is also interesting, they d even have a roadster now but the more pedestrian mainstream model is a good pick.
The one Ferrari I despised when new and I secretly lust after now would be the 612, also didn t quite like the 599 but I do nowadays but the starkest change of mind thing would clearly be the 612. Never liked the 550 or the 575 (=worse) so they wouldn t match your conditions.
😂😂😂 1:18:50 did Manesh say trans bond?! 😂😂😂😂 I’m dead!
Fantastic. What was Chris C thinking when he agreed short and fat things were not good? 🤣
I remember my first memory of an Audi was when a friend’s dad got an Audi 80 in the late 80s - it looked different from all the other saloons with its stubby boot (with a mechanism i found fascinating), the quality of the interior was something else compared with what I’d been in before and it even had headphone sockets in the back. Then with the system they had of pulling the steering wheel away from the driver before airbags properly came along (procon ten or something?) and the original A8 a few years later and its pioneering use of aluminium I grew up associating Audi’s as being an innovative company and later reinforced when they launched the A2 - a car which my father in law still owns 20 years after getting his and loves. But - yeah - agree with all that was said. Not a brand that appeals to me anymore.
Neil is right, Hit me with your rhythm stick is brilliant.
I COMPLETELY agree and echo Neil’s opening remarks about Audi…. Utterly, utterly, utterly dull. Soulless. Bland. Grey. A character vacuum.
Great Podcast!
I would like to hear you thoughts on Le Man 24, with more manufactorers joining the Hyper Cars, and what this means for Le Man and the sport in general. Also whats your thoughts on the future of the Privateer teams such as Jota