I find it hilarious that when he needs to turn the head of the bolt he reaches for the nut rounder even when the box end is literally sitting right there in frame.
Oh you know he's got a soft spot for the thumb detecting nut fucker and I'm sure that the thumb detecting nut fucker has got a soft spot impressed upon his thumb
I could hardly see the screen between the fingers of my shield hand ! Is it better to have your palm facing the blast zone or back of the hand ? If the back of the hand gets damaged you can still use your palm, I'm never sure.
The difference between stretch to torque vs stretch to yield bolts. Stretch to yield breaks when reused. Stretch to torque breaks when it's the only bolt like it within a thousand miles.
Couple factors unaccounted for: You measured the thickness of the material at the roots but not the depth. The proto appears to have a wider head which would contribute to cross-sectional area and thus strength. The 12 point wrench has sharper internal angles which would result in a greater stress concentration all else being equal. Not sure we can really make a materials strength judgment here given the above.
Please try testing 2 of the same wrench brand new, but quench one in liquid nitrogen first. Let it warm back up before you test it of course. They have been doing this with racecar parts now along with WPC process and the results are impressive. Super cooling it basically "finishes" the metal crystallization that happens during normal casting or forging and converts more of the phases into martensite which is the strongest phase. Might want to double check the process details, I think you just let it soak in the nitrogen for a while and then take it out and let it warm back up. You could probably even leave it in overnight. One of the science channels on youtube did it with bolts I believe and got something like 30% strength increase if I remember correctly.
I had safety squints fully engaged in Michigan and I might need a change of clothing . Every pump of the pneumatic porta power was a run for the hills moment. Thanks for sharing your time and videos.
As someone with a lifetime of experience in Canadian English and it's MANY colloquialisms, it gives me a great deal of pleasure to watch RUclips closed captions struggle to comprestand and interpolate your videos!
The angle on the 12 point being sharper and having a smaller radius at the edge might be a factor as well. 12 pointer just seems like it has more of a stress concentrator, but it has been a couple years since last I had to figure out a stress concetration factor.
Man, I've been watching your videos for half a decade, and you're still my favorite RUclipsr ! Live all your hilarious sayings and I've learned alot of obscure bits of info I would never have though of in a million years. Keep it up, I'm a long time fan!
Bolts stretch, period. I worked at a case ih assembly plant for 6 1/2 years as a tester and there was certain hardware particularly larger stuff that was torqued to 500+ ftlbs like the final drives on combines that if something happened and they ever had to be removed we had to throw them away and use new ones in their place. Bolts that went in easily with 2 fingers were like they had thread lock after being torqued and stretched the threads. Believe
stretch occurs between the head of the bolt and where the bolt threads meet whatever it's threaded into. The portion of the bolt that's threaded in does not stretch significantly. You can see in this video AvE's die only got tight when it reached the portion of the bolt that wasn't threaded in.
The 6 pt seems to have a vague flank drive look with a more rounded internal root in the hex and the 12 pt looks more sharp cornered, hence a bit more stress riser ish.
I still say if you step down in size the results will be different. Grade 8 and 15/16" has to have high tolerances than 3/16 and no grade Chinese furniture bolts. Ftlbs aside, I still prefer the 12pt for the range of motion.
@Captain MufDyven Were you using drill bit lubricant? Were you using chinesium drill bits? It'd be difficult to drill through dry spaghetti if your bits are also made of dry spaghetti. I've personally found more success drilling through metals with molybdenum bits. I have mostly KnKut bits for metal and Fuller brad points for wood.
@Captain MufDyven There's definitely a lot of variability when it comes to Chinesium hardware. It's like they just grab whatever stock is convenient and run it through.
@Captain MufDyven Cheap hardened steel so they don't strip out easily, just like drywall screws. They will take less torque than a grade 2 bolt, but do better in shear. They normally get loose because what ever they are holding gets deformed.
@@kw9849 China can make excellent stuff, they manufacture to a design and price point as per the customer's specs. Which is why the cheap stuff usually falls apart right after the warranty runs out, and the good branded stuff lasts longer.
My grandpa used to work for Ingersoll Rand/Proto and they would test their tools for QA against Snap Off and other brands and Proto would always snap last. He'd tell me the stories of how they knew which brand was being tested by the "ping". Goes without saying why I like your testing content I love my hand me down Proto tools. They will definitely continue to earn money for my sons when they're older. Thanks AvE
Why didn't you measure the width of the box end wrenches? Wouldn't the overall strength be a function of the total cross sectional area of the steel at the weakest point - not just the thickness?
@@brianhaygood183 I came here to say this also. The effective stress is concentrated differently depending on the size of the radius at the sharp intersection. The smaller the radius the higher the stress concentration. How do the two wrenches compare in this regard?
The ring is failing in tension (as the bolt head gets incrementally coc*ed in the ring, it tries to expand the ring, placing the ring in tension) . Crucial factors are strength of the steel, and cross sectional area at thinnest point of the ring. As long as the tolerances are tight enough between hex head and wrench ring, 6 vs 12 point immaterial??
Both wrenches preformed well considering the torque applied. Proto makes some great tools. Their tools don’t have the same feels good in the hand effect that snap on has. But they are every bit as durable and about half the price on most items.
Isn't the difference in performance down to the geometry of the head? 6pt has more surface area in contact with the bolt, therefore the load is being spread out over more of the head. Whereas the 12pt has less contact surface area and therefore gives up easier as more force going through smaller surface area.
The wrenches have the same contact area on account of the wrench heads being larger than the bolt. We know the heads are larger because they are easy to fit over the bolt if they where exactly the same size you would have an press fit between the wrench and bolt which would require a press of some kind to get the wrench on the bolt.
As long as it makes good contact and the bolt or nut is in good shape a 12 point usually grips well enough to break the bolt. But, a 6 point does grip better since its able to make more contact deeper on the flats. The 12 point really only catches the points.
I would argue that 12pt have more points of contact, but 6 has more area of contact. I'd rather have the latter over the former unless I'm trying to spin something smooth, which is why a pipe wrench has so many "teeth".
One small comment: the modern wrenches are typically broached a little off centre , as is found out when wrenching a nut or bolt with tight clearances, Clarence, requiring one to find the position the wrench will actually fit.
Those air pumps can take a little more, I have one, enerpac I believe, used to always do better than other jack pump I had or used. Never occured to me that the relief valve was buggered since new, I recently run across a 10k psi gauge and hooked it up and found out she'll go well above the stop for the needle. Used it for years like that, and of course, anytime you get a jack out you have always have to run right into the red.
I stumbled upon your absolutely hysterical banter in the past and apparently didn't subscribe. This time, I hit that bell notification because you sir are a fuckin riot.... Keep it up
Rounding edges on bolts is always the fail point, very real advantage for the 6 point there. I only use 6 point, especially on my socket wrenches where positioning no longer favors 12 points.
I’m thinking there is also different forces at play due to the geometry of the wrenches. Specifically the area when the angle of the contact area. The load is distributed more evenly in the Proto. Not getting into specifics as my thumbs lack typing endurance. Just saying it’s something major to factor in. In addition to manufacturing and metallurgy as you already mentioned.
I can answer that for ya; no man is big or strong enough to break a wrench with his own hands. Only will it break when you apply additional leverage or force beyond what a human is capable of. A snipe bar, a hammer, heat, etc.
Yeah, I once thought the same thing I thought the same thing when I came up with the brilliant idea once used a 3/4" with a 8' long cheater pipe. The memory of the sound "ting", the lump on the back of me noggin, and waking up dazed and confused on the shop floor told me otherwise.
@@Sizukun1 You are full of shit. I bought some HF flare nut wrenches and I managed to break one with just my bare hands. Where it broke it was very granulated looking metal.
I'd hazard a guess that the geometry of the 6- vs. 12-pt has something to do with the ultimate yield too. 12-pt is going to have more stress risers than the 6-pt.
Would it matter how many there are, when the ultimate strength is determined by the weakest point? They aren't all going to fail at once, just the weak point. I guess having more of them increases the odds that one of them would be imperfect, and thus weaker than expected, but I would think that would just come down to the quality of the original steel.
@@WarrenGarabrandt It wouldn't make a big difference. What really matters is the shape of the wrench. If the bolt head was in an egg shape or a slightly deform circle, you wouldn't need much torque to break the wrench. So essentially, with a 12 point wrench, there is more force trying to expend the wrench and less trying to turn the bolt.
From my (albeit minimal) experience, the 12-point is generally easier to use because of the extra positions in which it can grab. However, because it's not fully supporting the fastener it has a tendency to round them off. In those applications, the 6-point may be superior. My dad did HVAC work and they would use a "Secure-grip open-end wrench" to keep from rounding off the soft fittings. It's basically that same 6-point box-end wrench with one of the sides cut out.
The “extra grip” is negligible 99% of the time. The advantage of a 12 is immense as you indeed have double the amount of positions to engage the fastener. If you are using a good quality wrench with good tolerances it won’t round it off. I often use Hazet wrenches, a full set of these costs a kidney and a liver. But you can beat them with a hammer and use em everyday and they will hold up. The set I use right now everyday as a heavy equipment/ industrial mechanic has a “Made in W.-Germany” stamp on them. They have seen a lot of use but still fit perfectly with no slop. This “secure-grip” open end wrench you refer to is often used by us when working on hydraulics. Very practical indeed!
That's called a "flare nut wrench", for anyone interested. Any auto mechanic who isn't a sadist, will have a set of SAE and Metric, for brake and fuel line/hose work. Nothing worse than, say, having to replace a brake caliper, but you fuck the hose's nut up and now in addition to replacing the carpet, you're also replacing the brake hose... nevermind that the job won't be done in the initially quoted time frame because you have to wait for the parts store to deliver the new line (assuming they have one lol). But yea, same scenario for HVAC. Rounding pipe flare nuts is one of those classic _"... Ffffffffffffffffffuck 😔"_ moments, no matter the job, be it professional or personal! 🤣
Very similar to brake line wrenches my dad has from his mechanic days. They cut a small notch so it can go around the line, and a solid six point to avoid rounding anything. Granted, I'm not sure those are meant for maximum torque ever, but every extra bit of thread helps for a hydraulic connection.
Your quote at 2 minutes is pretty amazing and something I wish more people would take heed of. It’s important to not exist in an echo chamber and keep an open mind to new ideas and evidence that will help you come to different and possibly uncomfortable solutions. But vilifying people that don’t agree with you and resorting to name calling won’t help further anyones point on either side. I still like you and that peg legged northern hillbilly even if I don’t agree with you 100% of the time. That’s what makes community great.
After the measurements part showing the proto was actually thinner, I was thinking "would be cool if he got a bunch of different brands and tested those" which of course was immediately followed up by AvE "which means we can get all kinds of different wrenches and do experiments on those!". AvE always coming through
@@Vikingwerk yes. My 1" that I've had for close to 20 years had the ratchet mechanism crater. Using said wrench as a percussive device may have been a contributing factor.
Not sure if I'm ingesting too much or just the right amount of this content. During the dead silence betwixt the porta-power strokes, I catch myself wincing and saying aloud "Holy-O-Fu¢√" just in time to hear the same utterance echoed from behind the camera out from under what I can only imagine is a wad of tarp and moving blankets haphazardly hoisted in front of a man's face and squishy bits like some sort of third world ballistic vest. This is the type of content I internet for. Thank you Sir.
Coming from the point of view of working in vintage cars I use 6 points all the time because they don't round the nuts off as much. And a lot of my customers think original bolts are magically imbued with powers having been made in the workshops of long ago by virgin elves under the light of a full moon out of unicorn horn.
It appears that the Proto 6 point has a deeper boxed end than the craftsman. So despite the valley being thinner it is longer which would give more cross section of steal at the failure point. This measurement is necessary to sustain your claim at the end that the proto is "of higher quality material", rather than simply made of more material. Either way the proto had a higher failure torque so its proved its value.
The boxed end does definitely look longer for the Proto. Also, we know that box isnt perfectly punched in the center so we have no idea if the measured valley for either wrench is actually reflective of the depth of material at the failure point.
I watched this with a face shield and squints on. Much like when I watched my other favorite northern cousin you tuber test how strong motorcycle helmet latches are. Thank you AvE and fortnine.
Thank you for your service. Why not start with a straight comparison between the same brand of 6 pt and 12 pt? Seems hard to draw any conclusions due to so many variables?
Could it have been based on the geometry? Where did each break? The 6p could be focusing more stress on the center between two broaches. Would appreciate a comparison between two of the same brand/material
I use a lot of proto tools, love their impact sockets as well as their 6pt anti slip combination wrenches but 9 times out of 10 if I’m using a non ratcheting wrench it’s a Wright tool wrench. Imo Their one of if not the last of the good old tool brands that were all truly made in USA at high quality with most importantly in house production and good alloys
That is about like me sort of bouncing on the end of a 10' long chunk of 2" rigid conduit slid over a 1 1/4" wrench Because dad's impact wrench couldn't get a bolt loose on the tractor
You can't have a darker substrate, the sub dictates the underneath, sir bumblefcuk. Having said that, love you long time. You're right about this, too. Merry weekend and happy new week.
or does the 12pt break between the points on the bolt? essentially stretched due to the direction of force from the competing faces? while the thinnest part is thicker it is still thinner than the thicker flat section of the 6pt
Heres my 2 cents. As a nostalgia based fan of vintagish craftsman tools, what i have noticed with the wrenches anyway, is that the broach can be misaligned, so you would you can have wall thickness variation from one side to the other.
4SL's 1st Law: The velocity of the shrapnel is the mass x the cube of the angle of deflection of the wrench or breaker bar/pipe. 4SL's 2nd Law: The trajectory of the shrapnel will be to the skull of the nearest living hooman or most expensive fragile item.
As much as I like the look of the nice shiny chrome finish Snap-On wrenches the Proto satin finish is really nice. Especially when you get nice and greased up it just grips much better in the hand. Also I don't really notice much difference between the fit vs the Snap-On on fasteners neither rounding off nuts and bolts and both are able to remove rounded nuts that someone had a go at with say a Mastercrap or some Princess Auto bargain bin wrenches. Those Protos are an absolute joy to use in 12 or 6 point.
Proto and Wright are the MAC and Snap On of tradesmen. All four are top tier. Of only Snap On would cut the gimmicky marketing bullshit. Do they thinks Auto Techs are idiots? A free hat? That's suppose to impress you?What the f is that? If my Proto dealer did that to me I would of told him to eat it, were not suppose to negotiate price here. This isn't Calcutta
It's not just the girth of the teeth, but also the length. Cross-sectional area at the weak points, seems the 12 point has quite a bit more cham-fir on the faces.
I just don't get it, here is a man who soulfully loves and has a full compliment of quality tools, defaults to adjustable wrenches. Don't think I am being a little fussy about your videos, because they (and you ) are great!
I think the difference in leverage due to the shape of the wrench has to make a difference in the results. Let's say the bolt head and the wrench were in an egg shape (oval), the slight amont of torque would deform the wrench and the metal would be under insane tension.
Really only reason for 12pt is that you can fit it on the bolt twice as many angle variations.. specifically when you're crawling around on the floor under a car or similar
Holy shnikes, Batman. That worried the bejeezus outta me. I'm looking forward to the upcoming wrench snaps. As long as you're wearing your safety squints and groin kevlar.
Howdy, my obsservation see's the load on a six point socket behind the the point(?) of the bolt. Farther back, than a 12 point. load centered on radius of wrench. not just corner. ty Les
Just yesterday I had a jack handle over a snap-on 14mm spanner doing some turbo bolts on a mitsubishi diesel. I was hoping to break it for the warranty but she lived. It was about 2.5 feet of extension and felt like about 40kg so 80lb of force at the meat end. So 80 x 2.5 just over 200ftlbs on a 14mm/9/16th spanner.
"So how'd you get all those metal fragments imbedded in your skull?"
Thank you for your noble sacrifice, AvE.
Imagine the hospital visit. “So Mr AvE can you explain why you have a spanner sticking out your head?” “Well Dr funny story….”
@@Downtheshed I did it for RUclips! Can I be moved to the front of the line?
What wrench? I came in here as I see different smells.
As I get more "experienced" I notice my safety squints don't react as fast as they used to...
@@Downtheshed Can you imagine the ER personnel trying to understand the AvE speak?
Some people are scared of the boogeyman. I’m scared of the Torquestructomatic at 8k psi with AvE welds holding on for dear life.
Those welds would hold up your house.
Id trust those welds with my life
@I am an Absorber AI. Read my about page. I wouldn't worry about it
I find it hilarious that when he needs to turn the head of the bolt he reaches for the nut rounder even when the box end is literally sitting right there in frame.
Oh you know he's got a soft spot for the thumb detecting nut fucker and I'm sure that the thumb detecting nut fucker has got a soft spot impressed upon his thumb
I happened to right there in the vid reading your comment, and about choked on my lunch.
Once a nut-lathe operator, always a nut-lathe operator.
Box wrench is one size, nut rounder is tons of sizes. More = Always better. Plus as a bonus it also makes good for a hammer.
He is called bumble fuck for a reason
Alot of safety squint engagement in this video, even from across the internets.
Yeah, I've my safety squints on watching this, I think AvE was seriously considering his safety GTFOs...
I could hardly see the screen between the fingers of my shield hand !
Is it better to have your palm facing the blast zone or back of the hand ? If the back of the hand gets damaged you can still use your palm, I'm never sure.
My underpants cost £1, and my arse ate about 50p worth during the torque tests!
Proto = snapon
Even had my safety squints on for that one. Sure puckered a little
I engaged my safety squints and my shield hand and could hardly see betwixt my fingers !
The difference between stretch to torque vs stretch to yield bolts.
Stretch to yield breaks when reused.
Stretch to torque breaks when it's the only bolt like it within a thousand miles.
Couple factors unaccounted for:
You measured the thickness of the material at the roots but not the depth. The proto appears to have a wider head which would contribute to cross-sectional area and thus strength.
The 12 point wrench has sharper internal angles which would result in a greater stress concentration all else being equal.
Not sure we can really make a materials strength judgment here given the above.
Please try testing 2 of the same wrench brand new, but quench one in liquid nitrogen first. Let it warm back up before you test it of course. They have been doing this with racecar parts now along with WPC process and the results are impressive. Super cooling it basically "finishes" the metal crystallization that happens during normal casting or forging and converts more of the phases into martensite which is the strongest phase. Might want to double check the process details, I think you just let it soak in the nitrogen for a while and then take it out and let it warm back up. You could probably even leave it in overnight. One of the science channels on youtube did it with bolts I believe and got something like 30% strength increase if I remember correctly.
Holy crap. What channel
Interesting, would love to see that test. Never heard of super cooling like that
@@michaelthebigaussie Applied Science gave some drill bits the cryo treatment
ruclips.net/video/hAxi5YXTjEk/видео.html
Applied science made a video about drillbit quenching in liquid nitrogen, that's a good explanation
They’re doing it with some rifle barrels, Sionics is the company I think
I had safety squints fully engaged in Michigan and I might need a change of clothing . Every pump of the pneumatic porta power was a run for the hills moment. Thanks for sharing your time and videos.
As someone with a lifetime of experience in Canadian English and it's MANY colloquialisms, it gives me a great deal of pleasure to watch RUclips closed captions struggle to comprestand and interpolate your videos!
The angle on the 12 point being sharper and having a smaller radius at the edge might be a factor as well. 12 pointer just seems like it has more of a stress concentrator, but it has been a couple years since last I had to figure out a stress concetration factor.
I think you’re on to something. The 6-point has room for a larger radius stress relief where the faces meet.
I was thinking the same thing. Stress riser do to a sharper corner in the 12 pt? It's kinda hard to see in the video.
That clank noise when it breaks.
I'd be checking myself for new holes.
Check out the fake AD with a Desert Eagle 50 for that. 50 Desert Eagle fail.
Man, I've been watching your videos for half a decade, and you're still my favorite RUclipsr ! Live all your hilarious sayings and I've learned alot of obscure bits of info I would never have though of in a million years. Keep it up, I'm a long time fan!
I caught myself leaning my head back and subconsciously applying my safety squints just watching.
Bolts stretch, period. I worked at a case ih assembly plant for 6 1/2 years as a tester and there was certain hardware particularly larger stuff that was torqued to 500+ ftlbs like the final drives on combines that if something happened and they ever had to be removed we had to throw them away and use new ones in their place. Bolts that went in easily with 2 fingers were like they had thread lock after being torqued and stretched the threads. Believe
I get that a lot where I work, if I have to go back and redo or modify someone’s work, you can tell they have been stretched, tight all the way out.
stretch occurs between the head of the bolt and where the bolt threads meet whatever it's threaded into. The portion of the bolt that's threaded in does not stretch significantly. You can see in this video AvE's die only got tight when it reached the portion of the bolt that wasn't threaded in.
Nothing like a 5 ft cheater on a 2000 ft/lb torque multiplier. Next comes the Thermadyne heat wrench.
What we need here is more Prudence the safety goat!
The 6 pt seems to have a vague flank drive look with a more rounded internal root in the hex and the 12 pt looks more sharp cornered, hence a bit more stress riser ish.
i own a couple sets of proto and they are flank drive ish
What is this telling me? I need this converted into a unit i can understand, for example; 250lb gorilla on the long end of a 12' cheater pipe?
Hey thanks as an old mechanic it was fun to watch your ongoing experiment. Mind I do really really enjoy the commentary. Keep up the good content 👌
I still say if you step down in size the results will be different. Grade 8 and 15/16" has to have high tolerances than 3/16 and no grade Chinese furniture bolts. Ftlbs aside, I still prefer the 12pt for the range of motion.
@Captain MufDyven Were you using drill bit lubricant? Were you using chinesium drill bits? It'd be difficult to drill through dry spaghetti if your bits are also made of dry spaghetti.
I've personally found more success drilling through metals with molybdenum bits. I have mostly KnKut bits for metal and Fuller brad points for wood.
@Captain MufDyven There's definitely a lot of variability when it comes to Chinesium hardware. It's like they just grab whatever stock is convenient and run it through.
@Captain MufDyven Cheap hardened steel so they don't strip out easily, just like drywall screws. They will take less torque than a grade 2 bolt, but do better in shear. They normally get loose because what ever they are holding gets deformed.
@@kw9849 that is exactly what they do. Make more money that way.
@@kw9849 China can make excellent stuff, they manufacture to a design and price point as per the customer's specs. Which is why the cheap stuff usually falls apart right after the warranty runs out, and the good branded stuff lasts longer.
I don't recall rounding out too many new bolts (with hand tools), but it's the rusty ones I have 6 point and a hammer for
Yep. And sometimes a size "too small" as well.
The first minute and half is pure legend. Wow. That comedy level of George Carlin
I'm excited to see where this torque-ing of your wrenches goes.
Dare I hope to witness some Snap-off destruction?
Thanks for going back to your roots. This is the the sort of content I come here to watch.
it's just a little airborne, it's still good!
My grandpa used to work for Ingersoll Rand/Proto and they would test their tools for QA against Snap Off and other brands and Proto would always snap last. He'd tell me the stories of how they knew which brand was being tested by the "ping". Goes without saying why I like your testing content I love my hand me down Proto tools. They will definitely continue to earn money for my sons when they're older. Thanks AvE
Why didn't you measure the width of the box end wrenches? Wouldn't the overall strength be a function of the total cross sectional area of the steel at the weakest point - not just the thickness?
The proto also has larger radii at each "point" than the Craftsman.
no. much like a chain, only as strong as the weekest link, on in the case, thinnest cross section
@@brianhaygood183 I came here to say this also. The effective stress is concentrated differently depending on the size of the radius at the sharp intersection. The smaller the radius the higher the stress concentration. How do the two wrenches compare in this regard?
The ring is failing in tension (as the bolt head gets incrementally coc*ed in the ring, it tries to expand the ring, placing the ring in tension) . Crucial factors are strength of the steel, and cross sectional area at thinnest point of the ring. As long as the tolerances are tight enough between hex head and wrench ring, 6 vs 12 point immaterial??
I thought the same thing. From the video the Proto looked wider.
Both wrenches preformed well considering the torque applied. Proto makes some great tools. Their tools don’t have the same feels good in the hand effect that snap on has. But they are every bit as durable and about half the price on most items.
Isn't the difference in performance down to the geometry of the head?
6pt has more surface area in contact with the bolt, therefore the load is being spread out over more of the head. Whereas the 12pt has less contact surface area and therefore gives up easier as more force going through smaller surface area.
The wrenches have the same contact area on account of the wrench heads being larger than the bolt. We know the heads are larger because they are easy to fit over the bolt if they where exactly the same size you would have an press fit between the wrench and bolt which would require a press of some kind to get the wrench on the bolt.
@@nug1903 not at all. The 12pts do have less contact/surface area than the 6pts and they also have twice as many thin places to break.
As long as it makes good contact and the bolt or nut is in good shape a 12 point usually grips well enough to break the bolt. But, a 6 point does grip better since its able to make more contact deeper on the flats. The 12 point really only catches the points.
That's my thinking, as the 12 point rounded the head the bolt wedges the ring apart.
I would argue that 12pt have more points of contact, but 6 has more area of contact. I'd rather have the latter over the former unless I'm trying to spin something smooth, which is why a pipe wrench has so many "teeth".
Love how your location is the Bikini Atoll lol
One small comment: the modern wrenches are typically broached a little off centre , as is found out when wrenching a nut or bolt with tight clearances, Clarence, requiring one to find the position the wrench will actually fit.
Roger, Roger.
@@Daniel-Weaver Do you have clearance Clarence?
@@howder1951 Roger,Roger.
Oops,I meant Vector , Victor.. I picked a bad day to stop smoking parmesan.
I've never achieved 800 ft lbs with just a wrench, but I have squeezed out 10,000psi trying to.
Those air pumps can take a little more, I have one, enerpac I believe, used to always do better than other jack pump I had or used.
Never occured to me that the relief valve was buggered since new, I recently run across a 10k psi gauge and hooked it up and found out she'll go well above the stop for the needle.
Used it for years like that, and of course, anytime you get a jack out you have always have to run right into the red.
Be careful with reliefs on jacks. Had a 400 ton relief blow out and kill a coworker a few years ago.
More fun-stuff happening in these 10 minutes than in the comedy-movies of the last decade combined. I think he should make this a thing.
I would love to know how much strength is lost/gained due to modern radius cuts in the corners compared to the old design of straight corners
I stumbled upon your absolutely hysterical banter in the past and apparently didn't subscribe. This time, I hit that bell notification because you sir are a fuckin riot.... Keep it up
Rounding edges on bolts is always the fail point, very real advantage for the 6 point there. I only use 6 point, especially on my socket wrenches where positioning no longer favors 12 points.
Exactly!
The 6 point is great for rusted nuts or nuts someone else tried to take off with an adjustable.
I’m thinking there is also different forces at play due to the geometry of the wrenches. Specifically the area when the angle of the contact area. The load is distributed more evenly in the Proto. Not getting into specifics as my thumbs lack typing endurance. Just saying it’s something major to factor in. In addition to manufacturing and metallurgy as you already mentioned.
I'd love to see a crude homemade 6 point and 12 point wrenches cut from the same chunk of steel and see how they compare
Hell yea! Same material! Same everything untreated and also heat treated that would be great! Just to able to the difference in it all.
It would give uncle bumble fawk a chance to make double ender jokes!
6 point for win
Great to hear you calling out Herr Schwab. I get the feeling there is a fight coming and I'm glad to stand on the side of men like yourself.
Can you test the open ends of those wrenches now
I can answer that for ya; no man is big or strong enough to break a wrench with his own hands. Only will it break when you apply additional leverage or force beyond what a human is capable of. A snipe bar, a hammer, heat, etc.
@Sizukun you can bend the open end by hand ask me how i know. Box end you are correct
Yeah, I once thought the same thing I thought the same thing when I came up with the brilliant idea once used a 3/4" with a 8' long cheater pipe. The memory of the sound "ting", the lump on the back of me noggin, and waking up dazed and confused on the shop floor told me otherwise.
@@Sizukun1 You are full of shit. I bought some HF flare nut wrenches and I managed to break one with just my bare hands. Where it broke it was very granulated looking metal.
Excellent shop you've got there in the Bikini Atoll.
Wouldn't the six point work better on a partially stripped nut?
I too keep a role of pink twig tape around for when I really wanna score. Cheers.
I'd hazard a guess that the geometry of the 6- vs. 12-pt has something to do with the ultimate yield too. 12-pt is going to have more stress risers than the 6-pt.
I wrote an entire paragraph to say what you just did. Should've read all the comments first.
Would it matter how many there are, when the ultimate strength is determined by the weakest point? They aren't all going to fail at once, just the weak point. I guess having more of them increases the odds that one of them would be imperfect, and thus weaker than expected, but I would think that would just come down to the quality of the original steel.
@@WarrenGarabrandt It wouldn't make a big difference. What really matters is the shape of the wrench. If the bolt head was in an egg shape or a slightly deform circle, you wouldn't need much torque to break the wrench. So essentially, with a 12 point wrench, there is more force trying to expend the wrench and less trying to turn the bolt.
My butt bit the seat on that one. I look forward to seeing the continuation of this experiment. Thank you, kind sir, for letting us tag along
From my (albeit minimal) experience, the 12-point is generally easier to use because of the extra positions in which it can grab. However, because it's not fully supporting the fastener it has a tendency to round them off. In those applications, the 6-point may be superior. My dad did HVAC work and they would use a "Secure-grip open-end wrench" to keep from rounding off the soft fittings. It's basically that same 6-point box-end wrench with one of the sides cut out.
The “extra grip” is negligible 99% of the time. The advantage of a 12 is immense as you indeed have double the amount of positions to engage the fastener. If you are using a good quality wrench with good tolerances it won’t round it off.
I often use Hazet wrenches, a full set of these costs a kidney and a liver. But you can beat them with a hammer and use em everyday and they will hold up. The set I use right now everyday as a heavy equipment/ industrial mechanic has a “Made in W.-Germany” stamp on them. They have seen a lot of use but still fit perfectly with no slop.
This “secure-grip” open end wrench you refer to is often used by us when working on hydraulics. Very practical indeed!
That's called a "flare nut wrench", for anyone interested. Any auto mechanic who isn't a sadist, will have a set of SAE and Metric, for brake and fuel line/hose work.
Nothing worse than, say, having to replace a brake caliper, but you fuck the hose's nut up and now in addition to replacing the carpet, you're also replacing the brake hose... nevermind that the job won't be done in the initially quoted time frame because you have to wait for the parts store to deliver the new line (assuming they have one lol).
But yea, same scenario for HVAC.
Rounding pipe flare nuts is one of those classic _"... Ffffffffffffffffffuck 😔"_ moments, no matter the job, be it professional or personal! 🤣
Very similar to brake line wrenches my dad has from his mechanic days. They cut a small notch so it can go around the line, and a solid six point to avoid rounding anything.
Granted, I'm not sure those are meant for maximum torque ever, but every extra bit of thread helps for a hydraulic connection.
I fucking love this channel
I even got MY mom on speed dial for this one!
Your quote at 2 minutes is pretty amazing and something I wish more people would take heed of. It’s important to not exist in an echo chamber and keep an open mind to new ideas and evidence that will help you come to different and possibly uncomfortable solutions. But vilifying people that don’t agree with you and resorting to name calling won’t help further anyones point on either side.
I still like you and that peg legged northern hillbilly even if I don’t agree with you 100% of the time. That’s what makes community great.
@Karl with a K lol
I have some OG craftsman wrenches that predate my heartbeats and I would put to bear against any load John Henry wants to hammer down.
What about the other end, seems to be a lot more girth there
After the measurements part showing the proto was actually thinner, I was thinking "would be cool if he got a bunch of different brands and tested those" which of course was immediately followed up by AvE "which means we can get all kinds of different wrenches and do experiments on those!". AvE always coming through
Sort of like Project Farm.
I’d really like to see this for ratcheting box ends, I feel like some of them may not be as strong as you’d want
I imagine the internals give out and convert it into a fidget spinner before the outside fails.
@@Vikingwerk yes. My 1" that I've had for close to 20 years had the ratchet mechanism crater. Using said wrench as a percussive device may have been a contributing factor.
@@abpsd73 lolol ok
Not sure if I'm ingesting too much or just the right amount of this content. During the dead silence betwixt the porta-power strokes, I catch myself wincing and saying aloud "Holy-O-Fu¢√" just in time to hear the same utterance echoed from behind the camera out from under what I can only imagine is a wad of tarp and moving blankets haphazardly hoisted in front of a man's face and squishy bits like some sort of third world ballistic vest.
This is the type of content I internet for. Thank you Sir.
“Better steel more stronger, who would’ve thunk” 😂
Lots of laughs and safety squints on this one, great vidjo!!
that his wife and her boyfriend joke got me haha!
Been waiting so long to see the torquestructomatic again.
4 laughs
1 smile
2 snorts
Awesome!
Coming from the point of view of working in vintage cars I use 6 points all the time because they don't round the nuts off as much. And a lot of my customers think original bolts are magically imbued with powers having been made in the workshops of long ago by virgin elves under the light of a full moon out of unicorn horn.
I was leaning back from the screen to get ready for those wrenches to come flying out like a tank ripping rail gun shot.
It appears that the Proto 6 point has a deeper boxed end than the craftsman. So despite the valley being thinner it is longer which would give more cross section of steal at the failure point. This measurement is necessary to sustain your claim at the end that the proto is "of higher quality material", rather than simply made of more material. Either way the proto had a higher failure torque so its proved its value.
The boxed end does definitely look longer for the Proto. Also, we know that box isnt perfectly punched in the center so we have no idea if the measured valley for either wrench is actually reflective of the depth of material at the failure point.
It was comforting for me to know that the wrenches are stronger than I am. Unlikely to bruise a knuckle on the big wrenches.
My day brightens up every time I see you in my bell. Thanks for all the great stuff I learned from you:-)
Aunt Trudy adds a whole new meaning to Home Despot, just sayin'...
Love to listen to you pitter patter in the garage while I'm in my garage tinkering
I watched this with a face shield and squints on.
Much like when I watched my other favorite northern cousin you tuber test how strong motorcycle helmet latches are. Thank you AvE and fortnine.
Cant wait for the expensive Chinesium Vs. the cheap Chineseium wrenches showdown!
The notch between the contacting points on the 12-point might allow more bending, and more tensile load in the roots at the contact points.
Thank you for your service. Why not start with a straight comparison between the same brand of 6 pt and 12 pt? Seems hard to draw any conclusions due to so many variables?
I now listen to these videos to fall asleep. I know I'm going crazy because they are starting to make sense
Could it have been based on the geometry? Where did each break? The 6p could be focusing more stress on the center between two broaches. Would appreciate a comparison between two of the same brand/material
I use a lot of proto tools, love their impact sockets as well as their 6pt anti slip combination wrenches but 9 times out of 10 if I’m using a non ratcheting wrench it’s a Wright tool wrench. Imo Their one of if not the last of the good old tool brands that were all truly made in USA at high quality with most importantly in house production and good alloys
That is about like me sort of bouncing on the end of a 10' long chunk of 2" rigid conduit slid over a 1 1/4" wrench
Because dad's impact wrench couldn't get a bolt loose on the tractor
You can't have a darker substrate, the sub dictates the underneath, sir bumblefcuk.
Having said that, love you long time.
You're right about this, too.
Merry weekend and happy new week.
or does the 12pt break between the points on the bolt? essentially stretched due to the direction of force from the competing faces? while the thinnest part is thicker it is still thinner than the thicker flat section of the 6pt
Good work on the Buffalo Bill reference & when the gauge shot up towards 10k psi I even slightly turned away from my screen.
You should get some kamasa tools wreches for the next test. I would love to see those tested!
I just about busted a gut with “it swabs the makeup on” !! Thanks for the belly laugh!!!
The Hydraulic Press channel has competition... The Pneumatic Torque-o-matic Channel.
Heres my 2 cents. As a nostalgia based fan of vintagish craftsman tools, what i have noticed with the wrenches anyway, is that the broach can be misaligned, so you would you can have wall thickness variation from one side to the other.
Looks like someone is taking a trip to Lowe's to exchange a Craftsman Wrench! =P
4SL's 1st Law: The velocity of the shrapnel is the mass x the cube of the angle of deflection of the wrench or breaker bar/pipe. 4SL's 2nd Law: The trajectory of the shrapnel will be to the skull of the nearest living hooman or most expensive fragile item.
As much as I like the look of the nice shiny chrome finish Snap-On wrenches the Proto satin finish is really nice. Especially when you get nice and greased up it just grips much better in the hand. Also I don't really notice much difference between the fit vs the Snap-On on fasteners neither rounding off nuts and bolts and both are able to remove rounded nuts that someone had a go at with say a Mastercrap or some Princess Auto bargain bin wrenches. Those Protos are an absolute joy to use in 12 or 6 point.
Proto and Wright are the MAC and Snap On of tradesmen.
All four are top tier.
Of only Snap On would cut the gimmicky marketing bullshit. Do they thinks Auto Techs are idiots?
A free hat? That's suppose to impress you?What the f is that?
If my Proto dealer did that to me I would of told him to eat it, were not suppose to negotiate price here. This isn't Calcutta
It's not just the girth of the teeth, but also the length. Cross-sectional area at the weak points, seems the 12 point has quite a bit more cham-fir on the faces.
Just have to say, for what it is the craftsman impressed me.
Love the Honkening and Klaus references! BASED.
I just don't get it, here is a man who soulfully loves and has a full compliment of quality tools, defaults to adjustable wrenches.
Don't think I am being a little fussy about your videos, because they (and you ) are great!
I think the difference in leverage due to the shape of the wrench has to make a difference in the results.
Let's say the bolt head and the wrench were in an egg shape (oval), the slight amont of torque would deform the wrench and the metal would be under insane tension.
"Honey... why are there wrenches embedded in the ceiling of the shop?"
Really only reason for 12pt is that you can fit it on the bolt twice as many angle variations.. specifically when you're crawling around on the floor under a car or similar
I'd like to see some tests done on adjustable wrenches, if you get the time between defrosting your nuts.
The thickness of the box end also helps if'n ya need to get it into tight spaces, too.
You only need thick box ends for the Destructomatic Olympics.
Holy shnikes, Batman. That worried the bejeezus outta me.
I'm looking forward to the upcoming wrench snaps. As long as you're wearing your safety squints and groin kevlar.
Digits still remain after a fun experiment? That's a win right there, take it before you take chance on another 😉 always enjoy the content
Thrustin Turdo. This guy is gold.
Howdy, my obsservation see's the load on a six point socket behind the the point(?) of the bolt. Farther back, than a 12 point.
load centered on radius of wrench. not just corner. ty Les
"Opinions are like arseholes: Everyone has got one, and everyone thinks that everybody else's stink" Thanks for the video!
i'm always stretchin' my fastener, it makes it look bigger =)
Just yesterday I had a jack handle over a snap-on 14mm spanner doing some turbo bolts on a mitsubishi diesel. I was hoping to break it for the warranty but she lived. It was about 2.5 feet of extension and felt like about 40kg so 80lb of force at the meat end. So 80 x 2.5 just over 200ftlbs on a 14mm/9/16th spanner.