So can you quicken a fireball as a bonus action and use empower on it, then use your action to cast a twinned firebolt with empower since it's a different spell and the metamagic restriction says you only can't use more than one metamagic on the same spell except for empower of course?
Sorcerers absolutely do need more spells. I think that the idea of extra thematic spells makes sense. Let's say you take a Draconic Bloodline origin, and choose a dragon that is fire-based. You should have - let's say - 5 extra spells known, but those spells can only be of the element of your bloodline. So I can still learn utility spells such as mage hand, ray of frost, ect. but those take up the existing spells known in vanilla D&D, whereas learning firebolt and fireball take up one of the fire(elemental) learned spells.
I really like sorcerer not for its mechanics but for background versatility since a wizard always makes me feel like there background has to be studying magic. While a sorcerer can have any background and just know magic
Shiloh Elgin I really liked what pathfinder did where they got powers reflecting a plethora of magical backgrounds as well as the arcane sorcerer for non specific backgrounds.
@@joelsasmad same here... jumping back to d& d now can get me confused on what I can do at times. I only played a sorcerer once in D&D 3e. Few times in Pathfinder. I usually muti-class off a druid or cleric. Put played a Poisoner alchemist subclass of Sorcerer in pathfinder.. it was enjoyable
First campaign I ever did ,sorc used wild magic they had to roll for wild magic 10 times in a row long after combat was finished obviously, she turned into a pot plant and back, fireballed the party had 1HP left, turned blue, healed herself, hair fell out...then got a kind of curse where if she died within a minute she'd be resurrected as a random race. She was a princess and didnt want to be a blue and bald, we just happened to have been ambushing some orcs from a tower, she was high up, all of a sudden she says "see you soon" we all go nuts when she jumps. Sorc may have its problems but has a special place in my heart because of this.
Honestly I think this would be great, but it would be even easier, and work just as well, to just combine the Wizard and Sorcerer lists into 1 list like they were in Pathfinder.
I've played a wild magic sorcerer and every time I used my wild surge I'd get a tides of chaos on the next turn and it wasn't over powered at all. It was a ton of fun! I ended up blue, a foot shorter, bald, with a beard of feathers at the end of the session.
Rhett bruck Well at least the hair grows back within 24 hours lol. One time I rolled a 2 on the table, giving me rolls every turn for the next minute but then combat ended the next turn so we just rolled all the rest of the results right then and there and I ended up turning the entire party invisible, teleporting into another room, casting fireball on myself, gaining two years of age, and turning myself invisible and silent again. It was a fun time lol
"I can't see why someone would pick a sorcerer over a wizard" proceeds to give the one feature away that makes sorcerers unique in 5e to every other class
@@kaseybennett7415 yes it. Metamagic is AMAZING. You have a more narrow spell list, yet you can essentially cast more spells per day then any other class. You can also do more damage then any other caster class. Get Empowered and Twin spell and you get such a boost to damage. Get Subtle spell for unique RP scenarios. You are also Charisma based so you can be the face of the party. I love these guys but I feel he really puts his wizard bias to the front.
@@urkburker681 Arcane Recovery disagrees. In addition, the effects metamagic grants are great, and I'm not saying sorcerers are unplayable or anything (they make some really nice RP builds in specific situations and are pretty good multiclass dips) but the essence of why you play a spellcaster is caught far better in wizard than sorcerer in most cases. Also while you may say sorcerers "deal more damage than any other caster class" I don't entirely agree. They make excellent blasters who can deal a lot of burst damage, but other classes are more sustainable for a long fight. I think that's appropriate thematically, but it's one reason some are drawn away from sorcerer. I can't count the number of times the sorcerer in a party I've DMed for obliterated a hard encounter in about a turn or two, but I also can't count the number of times he simply burnt out after running out of their very temporary abilities. But hey, we all have preferences. I have a player who rarely plays anything other than a sorcerer, so what can I say?
All this talk of Metamagic reminds me of the game that I really love: Mage: The Ascension. In that game, Metamagic is the default. Mage character learn Spheres (basically Domains) that cover broad aspects of Reality manipulation. Forces, Life, Time, Mind, Spirit, etc. And you just build individual spells from the areas covered in those Spheres, or even combining two or more Spheres together. The game books list plenty of individual spells, but these are considered just established, formulaic applications of broader Sphere magic. The difference between following a recipe and "feeling out" the preparation of a meal. Mage: The Ascension also has a different definition of "Sorcerer", which is the opposite of how D&D defines them. Where D&D makes Sorcerers the ones who come into intuitive understanding of magic, and can cast spells without props, MtAs Sorcerers are more like Wizards in D&D (they rely on their props, they have to study forever to get any results, and their magics follow a linear progression of Paths rather than the broad Spheres that Mages use). Mages also need props or foci or instruments...at first. As the Mage advances, they begin overcoming the need to use specific instruments in certain situations (though they can use them anyway, for a difficulty reduction in casting), until they advance to Archmastery and no longer need their tools at all. It's also worth noting that, in MtAs, "Mage" (and "Sorcerer" for that matter) can be basically any kind of caster that D&D has, and more. Things that D&D calls Clerics and Bards and Warlocks and Paladins and Monks and Artificers, etc, are all just Mages (or Sorcerers) in MtAs. This being because the act of using magic in that universe is a function of belief and Will, meaning any process or system can be used to cast spells, so long as the Mage (or Sorcerer) believes there is power behind it. The game has a considerable learning curve, as you get your head around the core premise. But once you do, Mage is a fountain of endless, beautiful, insane possibilities.
Awwww, I love my Wild Magic Sorcerer :'( . So much flexibility with Metamagic and Sorcery points, you can do crazy things with the spells you do know. Twinned spell is great for buffs/debuffs on multiple targets when you normally would only get a single for your concentration. Quickened Spell lets you surprise the DM with extra action economy. Wild magic is fun for the most part, but yes depends on the DM's calls a lot. Everyone's heart skips a beat when you have to roll on that chart: will it be giving everyone Fly, or are you a potted plant for a turn? The group's following laughter after will either be maniacal or tearful ;)
I agree. D&D is not about getting the best character/team. It is about having fun and the wild magic is really fun. One thing with “Tides of Chaos”: I as a first timer as D&D player and DM hade problem knowing when the Sorcerer did a cantrip or a 1st or higher spell.
I really want to play a sorcerer because the flavour for them is so good, especially the Shadow Sorcerer, but I can never bring myself too because mechanically they just don't look interesting to play.
@@binturongjustice believe it or not, having a mechanically interesting and sound character *is* fun for most people, and feeling underpowered and unnecessarily limited by mechanics in a way no one else at the table is *isn't fun* . I love my sorcerer from a roleplay perspective because her backstory is amazing and the themes in her story and personality are neat, but after just a couple real life months of weekly sessions, I'm getting bored and frustrated with the mechanics because I get shown up by every other caster in the group, and they don't even have to *try* for it.
I will say, I am DMing a Curse of Strahd game, where we have a silver dragonborn who is a silver dragon sorcerer due to bloodline. I am having so much fun playing with it as a DM due to the importance of silver dragons in that campaign, and as a PC he is having fun and hasent been having trouble with the class. I'd also say, for Wild Mage and the table, if I had a wild mage in my party I would have them roll a d20 with every spell, and if they roll under their own spell save DC, they get to roll for it (or maybe roll above) that kind of thing
I like the metamonopoly, despite sorcs being my bottom class. Makes sense that they, as the innate natural casters, have the best control and mastery over their spells. However, I agree with the lack of an arcane infused more standard class. Don't know why they've got such a hard on for the sort of element or superpower focus so far.
one class feature that is dependent on "GM fait" is the cleric's divine intervention. literally a "please...help?" and the DM just has to decide what to do
Binh Duong I tell my cleric players that they have to pray for something. Not necessarily a specific action, but something to work with. Smite my foe, heal us, protect us, etc. If they just pray for help, their deity does something that makes sense for them. Illmater would probably give temp hp to protect, tempus would do damage, etc. Still very DM dependent and I really wish they included some examples beyond replicating any spell would be cool
Given the concept of internal magic, I think simply increasing sorcerer points is the most thematic change. Keep the basic mechanics of both meta magic and slot trades. But decrease the number of given slots and vastly increase sorcerer points. That way it plays more like an internal pool of magic, and less like the structure of a wizard. You want to be a veritable machinegun of low level spells? Done. You want to focus all of your efforts into a few big blasts? Done. Less variation IS the theme, and the trade is more of what you get. So get off the fence. No additional spell lists. Just lots of magic, right from level 1. The wizard is the craftsman. The sorcerer is the factory.
As a new player I like the feel of Sorcerers for the RP, they really nailed the "born special" trope in Unearthed Arcana. Between Favored Soul and Shadow you can play the Mary Sue or the Edgelord, I love how shameless it is.
Clockwork Soul in the current playtest has been my favorite experience in D&D so far. The variety of background allows you to make a really unique character, and the abilities focused on absolute order and mechanical constructs lend themselves really well to making an OCD character. That and the ties to Primus allow for an easy Sorcerer/Warlock multiclass. I hope Clockwork Soul makes it into the next round of UA
Ya man! I loved the interaction towards the end with the unseelie fey and Jonathan Strange once he can finally summon the fey. "Bring her back to life" "That is something I cannot do." :D
I think the way the handbooks justify the metamagic exclusivity with smaller spell list is that a wizard like you said, they study so they have just more spells. In order to do something different with magic, they HAVE to technically cast a different spell...maybe the components are different or the incantation or somatic components is different, but in the end it's technically a different spell. Whereas a sorcerer only gets what they're born with (which I'd love to run a campaign where sorcerers don't get to pick their own spells...because they don't study they don't choose, they just have the ability to do stuff granted by their bloodline) and they're fine with that because they have the ability to bend their spells to do what they want them to. And I know in pathfinder it was the extra features that drew me to sorcerers. All the bloodlines giving a built-in story for your character, and all the cool abilities, be it calling hellfire, breathing lightning like a dragon, or having necrotic corruption that causes whatever you touch to rot. All that being said, I've had so many good experiences with my 5e Halfling dragon sorcerer. Metamagic can REALLY tie into spellcasting based on instinct and emotion. If your friend dies, you don't need to worry about "Oh changing the components of the spell wrong will be very dangerous I need to measure out a different amount of sulfur etc etc etc" no...you just spend a couple sorcery points and you're just shooting off extra fireballs, or calling down a storm of magic missiles or scorching rays.
@@mathunit1 Heh. FYI, hurling out insults doesn't make your points any more valid. Not to mention you are wrong. Sorcerers are one trick ponies, and taking any other approach besides the blaster and the hands down best Metamagic options, just ends up being a detriment rather than a change in approach. So yes, Sorcerers indeed have their problems and have been quite blatantly neglected by WoTC, so before you go around insulting people for their supposedly lower intelligence, perhaps take some time to elaborate on your stance and try to be constructive when you voice your opinions. Thanks
@@WinterPains Clockwork soul and Aberrant mind break the defining characteristic that is Sorcerer, and do so with still providing a very strong class. What are the 2 things that define a sorcerer mechanically in this edition compared to other casters? 1. Access to metamagic 2. Limited # of spells known In this UA article by Rodney Thompson, the guy who made the classes for 5e, he discusses how expanding the # of spells known for Sorcerer is a huge ask. This is why the Favored soul archetype he describes at the end of the article has extremely few features that augment spell casting because the first feature of sorcerer expands the # of spells known. Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul have abilities that expand the # of spells known, and also just insanely good features that augment spellcasting with it. And that’s a bad combination for how the game was built. dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/modifying-classes
I'm playing a storm sorcerer in a game and I'm enjoying it immensely, but yinz are right that Sorcs need some buffing. They can mess with the action economy, but they get winded so fast if the combat goes on to long (which cantrips as they are now help a bit) but I feel that, yea, they should have all the wizard spells as well (I think they did in 3e) and the origins should get some bonus spells, which I'm going to talk to my DM this weekend about me getting those or not.
TBH the sorcerous origins from Xanathar's guide does a good job of showing the potential that sorcerers can have and the flavors of magic they can bring to the game
or people can just let their sorcs learn magic by practicing them for a few days. I don't see why you can't learn magics by seeing others cast stuff and trying to repeat what they did
It depends a lot on your DM. If he likes to damage your spellbook with water, fire, Area of Effect spells and wont give you any spell scrolls, not enough gold to write them into your book, a sorcerer is much better. If he's nice and hands you a magic spellbook, which can't be damaged by normal and most magical means or just ignores the possibility of damaging or loosing your spellbook, a wizard learns 3 times the amount of spells plus all the scrolls you can find...
I've really had a lot of fun with my Wild Magic Sorceress, I started with Stealth/Thieves Tools and Persuasion all trained and I've found that my magic made me a better thief and socialite (I eventually grabbed the Actor feat to be more about infiltration) my DM doesn't always remember my Wild Magic, but we've had fun with it when it has come up :-) There's a reoccurring unicorn joke too :-P
I agree the sorcerer definitely needs something more. However my DM let me roll wild magic every time I used advantage and it was one of the most fun characters I've ever played
On the other end of the spectrum I once played with a guy who asked if he could roll on the wild magic table at the beginning of every turn. After the 3rd turn in a row the DM said "You worry about the bandits I'll worry about the wild magic table. Stop asking, I'll tell you."
I mean my longstanding rule is that a player roles a second D20 each time they cast a spell of 1st level or above to determine if they have a wild magic surge on a 1 and if they use tides of chaos then they roll on the wild magic table at the earliest opportunity. The main gripe I’ve seen is that it can “slow the game down” but honestly it takes almost no additional time whatsoever if you’re being remotely sensible and the player picked that subclass for a reason. Plus who doesn’t like rolling dice? Less bookkeeping a DM has to do for things like that the better as well
I've been home brewing based on the spell secrets ability for the lore master wizard. I felt like for my party's sorcerer manipulating the elements of his spells really matched the wild magic theme. So I let him choose a meta-magic that could change the element of his spells for cost of 1 sorcerer point / spell level (minimum of 1 point). And since we don't have a lore master wizard, it really makes the sorcerer stand out as a intuitive manipulator of spells.
I see your points about the chaos sorc, but Tides of Chaos is a great ability. It's like renewable Inspiration (if you ignore the part about being DM dependant)... but what kind of shitty DM you have to be to don't allow your players to roll on the wild surge table whenever they get the chance? 2/3 of the table are bad or silly effects anyway, most chaos sorcs should fear rolling on it... Thanks to it, my rogue/sorc is now a 6ft tall, 8 year old kid with blue skin (and if that isn't a great mechanic, I don't know what is)
The last segment of this session was the most insightful thing I have heard in a while regarding the hobby. By God, there's nothing wrong counting every other diagonal as 10 feet of movement!
I like sorcerers for alot of the thematic ideas. I like their particular flavor of magic being inherited and natural to them, because that opens possibilities for stories for magicians that are more reckless and less in-control of their powers. A sorcerous origin is basically fantasy-allegory for puberty, which fits well with the "Coming of age" stories that alot of D&D works with from my experiences. You can do alot with their origins. It could be a family bloodline thing, it could be the side-effects of a curse or a freak arcane accident, it could be a psuedo-patron thing they've got going on, it has the most versatility from a narrative perspective and for that reason, it is my go-to spellcaster character, only delving into Wizards and Warlocks when I have a good hook for them, as opposed to sorcerers, who can do magic just because. I can agree that they are flawed. 5th edition in particular doesn't really take advantage of the second really cool thing about sorcerers; The sorcerous origins. The idea that their magical origins is tied to their blood is a really cool idea and as far as I can see, some of the older edition sorcerers had this thing, where their bodies would begin to mutate and change in accordance to their bloodline. This is only ever solidly a thing with 2 paths in 5e, Draconic and Shadow. Draconics get Dragon scales at first level and can sprout dragon wings at 14th, while Shadow Magic makes a character effectively undead and kinda vampiric (Why they don't get Vampiric touch, I do not know). Not all too crazy, but still, it's something. None of the other archetypes really take advantage of this enough to be cool.
I love the wild sorcerer. I let the player roll but only I get to check the result and then I describe what happens in a descriptive way, "You feel an electric charge building up, choose three targets quickly!" or telling them they shouted their last line when they meant to whisper it. My first player wanted to roll all the time, the second never remembers he has it.
I play a Wild Mage in a 2e campaign, using the Tome of Magic supplement. Just looking at the 5e Wild Mage, I can only think “Oh, how the mighty have fallen.” In 2e, the Wild Mages were ridiculous. You rarely cast spells at your actual level, and Wild surges could do anything. Strengthening or hampering the spell, summoning anything from 10,000 butterflies to a extra-planer creature, enlarging the targets feet, or just randomly enchanting items (which was much harder in 2e). They were just so much fun.
I was kinda forced to play a sorcerer because we were forced to have a higher than normal CHA :( it is so limited compared to a wizzard and can't be a blaster quite as good as a warlock. so yea it's not that great. I played it because we needed a wizzard and a warlock can cut it when it comes to being a more flexible caster.
I think it'd be cool if sorcerers didn't need a spell focus or material components to cast their spells. I'd take that over a bigger spell list honestly.
One feature with Sorcerers that I hate, is sorcery points. You can use them to create spell slots but you also have to use them for metamagic. So, you use the sorcery points to create a spell slot but then don't have enough for the metamagic to use for the spell, or you have enough for the metamagic, but, what's this, you don't have enough for a spell slot which is needed for metamagic!
That was me. Thanks! Trav (our production guy) had been wanting to do a youtube show, didn't matter what subject. One day driving home it pops in my head, and since I always ask Jim Davis for advice....the format was already set. We were shooting shows within a couple months.
The appeal of sorcerers to me is simply the roleplay aspect. I just love the idea of the sorcerer having this innate connection to magic, especially the dragon sorcerer. I haven't had a chance to play, but I want to sometime play a half-dragon sorcerer and on top of that go down the dragon disciple path. There's a bit of overlap with the breath weapon, but that's something I'd have to look at with the DM. Playing up that draconic heritage and acting like an arrogant red dragon just sounds like so much fun. Centering a fireball on myself and then walking out of the flames like some goddamn demon out of hell because of my draconic fire immunity. Eventually the character would beseech Tiamat to free him of his prison of a human body and take to the skies as a true dragon. It's painful when you have a character that you really want to play, but no group to play with. (As an artist I of course have painted this character concept: doodlemoogle.deviantart.com/art/Gentrilicious-608305362 )
That's the thing Jim kinda hinted at. All archetypes that really give that "special feel" to sorcerers are in the UA & have expanded spell lists. Stormborn is a perfect example in that the only difference between the SCAG & the UA is the expanded list. That said, I really did enjoy playing a Favoured Soul in a short campaign a while back myself...
Nice guy DM here: if you want to give someone a memorable Wild Mage, there is a table you can use called "The Net Libram of Random Magical Effects" which has 10,000 wild surge results. You might want to alter some effects when you roll them though if they are too strong (aka don't let a detect magic spell blow up the nearest star).
In one of my in-person games, our halfling sorceress wanted to be able to roll on the wild magic table more often. I forget what the number range is, but she hits it pretty often. She has to date turned into a potted plant half a dozen times, sprouted a beard of multicolored feathers that she kept for several levels, grown by 6 inches, turned us all invisible, and nearly blasted us into oblivion a few times. All in all, it really does add to the enjoyment of the game.
Sorcerers have great flavor and can give great inspiration for their backstories, but mechanically they do seem to be lacking a bit. I agree that adding a: generic arcanist origin, a bonus spell list (with one unique spell each depending on the color dragon heritage), and access to more spells (specifically wizard, but maybe even some druid for the storm sorcerer/ power of nature theme)
I love how you brought up the Draconic Bloodline for sorcerers and I am just thinking of my favorite character who is a Half-Silver Dragon Sorceress who took a feat in 3.5e/Pathfinder that allows her to turn every single element based spell (like Fireball) into cold damage. She's not at Fireball level yet, but she does love to throw her Freezing Ray (Scorching Ray using cold damage) around.
RE Tides of Chaos/Wild magic surge interplay, I had the sorcerer at my table roll a d20 every time he cast a spell of 1st level or higher, and a surge would trigger on a roll of twice the slot level or lower. Reinforced the risk versus reward angle, kept dangerous surges minimal at low levels where they could be disastrous, played into the whole "magic unchained" angle where greater power increases the chance of something going wrong, and let him use the Tides of Chaos feature often enough where it was useful.
I got a few ideas on how to apply metamagic to the other classes that are not the sorcerer. 1) Feats: general metamagic feat, pick a style of metamagic, you can use it say twice per long rest. 2) Somehow apply the old 3rd edition metamagic rules to the non-sorcerer classes. You can have the subtle fireball, but you're going to have to burn a 4th level slot but it will still have the power of a 3rd level spell, and so forth.
As a note for DMs on a several year old video...if you need a mage type NPC baddie, sorcerers are great in that role. You don't have to worry about them having 25+ spells to potentially track, and metamagic can really throw off your party. Subtle spells is one of the few ways a single mage can reliably get spells off against a counterspell heavy party (mine currently has 4/5 with it...). Twinning Blights or fingers of death is just sweet. Highly recommended!
I agree with this. Two Levels in paladin and the rest into sorcerer. Go Booming Blade and Mobility and Twin spell. You can lock down a lot of the battle field.Cast create bonfire as a bonus action. So much potential.
Agreed. I suppose Hexblade provides another option to make Gishes. But yeah I can see the case for any dip into Paladin from 2-7 depending on Sorcererous Origin, Balance between melee and spell casting and how long your campaign will run. Although I will say 2-18 was great with the old Favoured Soul.
The way I think of metamagic is that it has to do with how the spells are cast: sorcerers weave the magic on the spot, where wizards prepare a specific pattern in advance. So, if a wizard were to use metamagic, they would be preparing a different version of a spell, which would be a different prepared spell that the regular one. An easy way to do that might be to make it cost spell levels like in 3E, or rare materials might be needed in preparation like what Jim and Pruitt were saying.
I think a bonus spell list would be great, but I also think a really easy fix is if they had more sorc points, or if they could be renewed on a short rest.
My favorite is divine sorcerer. Gives you a whole new spell lost to pick from. Use bonus action for spiritual weapon, and action for spell casting. My favorite combo is Extended spell + mage armor. Lasts all day long.
The Favored Soul Sorcerer is likely the best designed Sorcerer subclass, since it gives you Cure Wounds as a free additional spell usage without needing to select it, and it grants you access to the cleric list for additional spell list selections.
Personally sorcerer is one of if not my favorite class. It was the first spellcasting class I picked up and I just loved it since. I love the versatility in the fact I don't need to prepare spells or study I just need to sleep and have spell slots. Regardless on whether I prepared it or not I can just fireball it up. I also really do love the potential for roleplaying why you are just good at magic. Its also gives good oppurtunties for multiclassing as some origins are you survive a near death experience. But expanded spell lists would defiantly help fix some of the issues it has
My adjustment for Wild Mage is that rather than rolling a 1 for wild surges I have it set as a 17-20. This gives the player a 1/5 chance when casting a spell to have a surge go off. With Tides of Chaos I allow them one use per long rest, and if they get a Wild surge it refreshes their use of ToC. I've found this allows the player to actually feel like a Wild mage. Magical effects randomly firing off and all that. Happens frequently enough that the player enjoys the class but no so frequent generally that it just goes crazy (though there is the chance for that to happen and when it does it's awesome).
FINALLY! and the wait was worth it as my views on Sorcerer were validated yay! It's like Wotc got scared Sorcerer would eclipse Wizard and nerfed their spell list and spells known into oblivion. There are a few other things with 5e Sorcerer I'll point out. 1. Sorcerer should have been the specialist in being the best at a particular type of magic with Wizards being more of a generalist. Thing is this isn't the case when you have things like an ice Sorcerer not being able to use ice wall while a Wizard can. You are right bonus, themed, spell lists that don't count against your spell's known should have been in from the start. With the Draconic Sorcerer I'd even be happy to give up using the other Draconic elements if I could use my element to it's fullest potential. An ice dragon casting fire just feels wrong and it's how they could have kept Sorcerer balanced to Wizard. 2. The whole concept of a Sorcerer lacking knowledge in magic is itself dumb as it's not how it works in real life or with common sense. When you are naturally good at something you tend to pursue that career. That's why most basketball players are tall. If fire bolts started shooting from my hands I'd want to know why and how to control it! 3. The way you gain resistance through Draconic Sorcerer's Elemental Affinity is not thought out. You first have to attack with a spell of your element and then spend a spell point to gain resistance for an hour. Think about it. When will your character likely think they need elemental resistance? Well when they see something that is likely to use that element? Thing is the same things you think will attack you with a specific element are usually resistant or immune to that element, yet you aren't, brilliant Wotc -_-. So you end up wasting a spell slot for half or no damage, a spell point and a turn for resistance. Like most everything else in the game could you not just give me resistance to the element I am? 4. With the assumed fear of Sorcerer eclipsing Wizard you'd think Wotc would have done something about multi-classing into Warlock. Sure most multi-classing makes you more powerful, which is fine, but if Sorcerer is specifically supposed to be a blaster not multi-classing into Warlock will hurt you. Three Warlock levels literary gets you Sorcerous Restoration, the lvl 20 sorcerer capstone, hex and the best cantrip in the game. If you are going to be regulated to blasting cantrips why would you NOT want the best cantrip! I guess you get slower spell progression but then you get the lvl 20 Sorcerer capstone far earlier. 5. Sorry Pruitt, maybe you mis-spoke, but you can only use one meta-magic option on your turn, with the exception of empowered spell. You can't use Twin and Quicken on the same turn. 6. I had an idea for an additional ability for Wild Magic Sorcerer which you may like as it causes them to be more of a generalist while keeping their theme... Spell Savant: You don't know how you do it but your innate talent for magic allows you to copy any spell you see. At level 6, as a reaction, if you can see the somatic gestures and hear the vocals, regardless of language, of a spell being cast you may learn that spell. This reaction may be declared after the spell takes effect but before the next turn. The spell does not have to be on your spell list nor does it count against your spells known, however, you may only learn one spell at a time in this manner. Learning another spell in this way causes you to forget the first. To cast the spell normal restrictions apply as you must have a spell slot of an appropriate level and any material components. In addition going asleep, taking a long rest or going unconscious causes you to forget any spell learned in this manner. At level 12 you no longer forget the spell if you sleep or long rest, at level 18 you no longer forget the spell if you go unconscious. I'd also replace the 07-08 Wild Magic Surge, the infamous TPK Fireball, with an option that makes you forget any spell learned with Spell Savant. Though I'm not sure what that roll should do until level 6. It gives the Wild Magic Sorcerer not only flexibility and more strategy but a mechanic not yet present in the game. While at the same time it keeps the Wild Magic theme with a certain amount of randomness. Should you save your reaction to protect yourself with shield, X-copy your Cleric mid-battle to help with healing or wait for the big bad guy's spell, X-copy it, and then turn it against him! Applying meta-magic to a copied spell makes even more possibilities. Learn a powerful spell you don't want to lose and you'll want to get knocked out even less. Also note a Sorcerer using Subtle Spell could not be copied as you could not see and hear them casting nor a creature which uses a spell as an innate ability and does not "cast" it.
Draconic ancestry is pretty useful though - higher AC and higher HP throughout the campaign does give an edge over the wizard and other sorcerer options if there’s going to be a lot of damage going on. However, just 15 spells known plus 6 cantrips is a lot to sacrifice for just that...
Much like everything in DnD, the problems can be fixed with magic items and by having a decent DM. More focused scope with limited selection is pretty much how it always goes, you trade one thing for another.
Currently have an elven dragonblood sorcerer that I adore playing! Her background is criminal (hitman) and she is a Dex/Chr build. I am using Alter Self and Misty Step as her 2nd level spells and Chromatic Orb to twin and subtle and twinning as her metamagic effects.. Having the ability to fire off 2 Chromatic Orbs simultaneously without warning has given her quite the intimidation factor and having Iarno's glass staff from Phandelver seriously raises her AC when needed. She has above average stealth and with Subtle can often times get a surprise round on an opponent. The rest of her party is scared to death of her and thank the stars she is on their side (for now).
The feeling I get is that Sorcerer is a good multiclass base. I'm running a Wild Magic Sorcerer that had a con artist background (low Int - high Charisma) that has multiclassed into Rogue. He's a 7th WMSorceror / 4th Arcane Thief with 0 magical background (he got his spells for Thief through raiding a magical library, but still has an Arcana skill bonus of -1). Absolute blast to play, because he doesn't understand magic beyond his own personal cause/effect, but he has sneak attack and thief armor for when the slots get screwy.
Sorcerer is the least played class in my group. In any game I've ran, I've had two Sorcerers and both were Wild Magic. My players asked if they could roll on Wild Magic table every time they cast a 1st level or higher spell. I love it, they love it. It makes Wild Sorcerer my favorite sorcerer.
currently playing a sorcerer in my campaign, played a wizard in the past. The Sorcerer now feels like the obvious choice to me between the two for one BIG reason: You don't have to RP a brainiac. Sorcerer's leave a lot more roleplay options open because you didn't spend your whole life studying.
In the TV show Magicians, one villain can cast more complex spells because he added an extra finger to his hand, and their magic is hand gesture based. As far as reason why meta magic would be a sorcerer's domain, it's that they have something that knowledge doesn't enable. Using tools and ingredients to enable some meta magic on others might make sense, likewise, sorcerers could do the opposite and gain access to other spells with the same. It's natural to assume an innate magician would acces all spells easier, but their orientation might be limited to, or limiting of their access.
Honestly, sorcerers are awesome the thing that would make you snap your fingers and go yes would be to make their Sorcery point to spell conversion more forgiving. Being able to burn a high-level spell for more low-level spells is epic but it would be nice if i could craft more higher level spells.
I agree, sorcs have a real hard time finding their thematic niche. I think the idea behind sorcerers being naturally in tuned with the magic around them and not particularly well read needs to be capitalised on harder because the mechanics and the theme are a bit out of sync. An idea I've been floating around my DM for a houseruled sorc is something like ""Natural Magic"" where depending on their environment they get a large bonus to a spell in tune with that environment. Two options around that theme, still maintaining your reduced spell list: Extra hit dice - when near, a fire for example, and you cast a fireball add some extra attack dice to it. Gated Spells - Only have available pure arcane spells at all times but when you are near an environmental effect you gain ALL spells related to that effect, so if it's very windy, or very cold you can gain all spells related to that effect with a bonus. Themes have to make the class standout which if you're not going for "pretty good at everything spells" aka the wizard, you need to have very defining strengths and weaknesses. Obviously balancing mechanics properly is a bitch but I like having a compelling theme personally.
What I'd like to see is an emphasis of sorcerers on the magic changing their body, like in WFRP but it's beneficial. There's already a bit of this, but thematically to me it makes the most sense.
So this is old now, but I've really come to appreciate HOW spell lists are created between wizards and sorcerers. A wizard will focus on spells from their school, obviously having more OOMPH in them. While sorcerers choose spells based on the metamagic abilities they had chosen. Casting illusions with silent spell/ having only rays to work with twin spells/ Empower for the huge dice fall spells/HEIGHTENED FORCES DISADVANTAGE!!!! FOR 3 POINTS!!! I feel like they are closer to one trick ponies, which can be fun to play.
My favorite use of sorc is to take it as the starting class for 1-4 levels and get the Con and Cha save proficiency, and then multi-calss into bard or Warlock for my actual build. Also nice to pick up the high number of Cantrips Sorc offers, as well as potential access to low level cleric spells or the Draconic Resilience feature which is basically like perma mage armor. Then there's the added bonus of having a couple meta magic options which can be used strategically to great effect. I feel like there's lots of great uses for sorc, it's just not very tempting as a pure class. At least not for me.
That makes sense, a wizard is a slave to magic and a sorcerer is the bringer/inventor of it. That is why wizards go mad, because they cannot create as the sorcerer does. but a quintessential wizard is always on the verge of inventing a new spell so idk lol
My sister plays a Sorcerer who specializes in fire. She also has duplicate spell. I allow her to use duplicate spell as many times as she can while still using her Sorcery points. So many fireballs in one turn. It's beautiful.
Honestly those last 10 seconds of banter made this video. I too am pretty impartial to Sorcerers, but man do I love me some Warlock. Can't wait till next week.
this was an idea i had for sorcerer(because of you guys), it's an arcanist as in someone who is connected to the arcane it's self. at 1st level: your spell list for your spell slots come from both wizard and sorcerer spell list. at 1st level: you also are able to reroll 1's and 2's from one die pool from a spell you cast, after this happens you can't do it again until you take a short rest. 6th level: increase your sorcery points to your charisma mod, also you can now activate two metamagic feats onto one spell. 14th level: you can spend 2 sorcery points as a metamagic feat to gain an advantage on your current spell that you are casting. 18th level: add your charisma mod to your arcane spell damage. let me know what you guys think, it's a generic idea and it give sorcerer a punch.
So far I gave grown 2 inches permanently, turned blue, teleported for free, grown an extra eye. My DM and I sat down and determined when I would be able to roll to see if a wild magic surge occurs and added a couple extra ways to trigger it. We both agree that the surges are fun and add something unique to the game and like to have them happen. Even with added other times it can happen (when I use my lucky feat or halfling luck) it is still relatively rare.
As a DM I would rule that a sorc once per turn can cast an additional spell first level or higher that is no more than a single action at the cost of sorc points, 1 per spell level. So a 2nd level spell costs 2 points. This gives them the action economy and mastery that other arcanist dont have
I agree with the metamagic monopoly, to a degree, but I also agree that the other spellcasting classes should have access to it. My first thought would be to just add it as a feature later on at higher level and it costs more points per use, due to the sorcerer having the instinctual understanding. I'm currently playing a draconic sorcerer (level 16) and we haven't had any issues in my party except for when my in-game master cast a meteor swarm on the wizard's tower we were in. I think partially that my satisfaction with the class so far is that I had a backstory already done and a theme built up, so I kind of like my seemingly slight encumbrances
I’ve had this idea for the wild mage, using cantrips doesn’t get close enough for wild potential. However when using “leveled magic” any use could potentially result in a wild outcome. After using a leveled spell always roll a D20. If the player hasn’t used a leveled spell all day then give the random chance, i.e. rolling a D10, a 1 results in rolling the D20.
Also about giving the sorcerer bonus spells: they tried that in an UA with favored soul origin who also gained the domain spells of whichever cleric domain they choose at level 1, netting them 10 free spells. In some combinations, this outright broke the class which is also the reason why the SCAG storm sorcerer took away the bonus spell list from the UA storm sorcerer.
Reading Tides of Chaos in the book and Wild Magic Surge in the book. It seems like both rely on initially casting a spell. So I would say after casting a spell you roll your d20: a 1 makes you roll on the table and I would say if they rolled a 20 instead of 1, then they get Tides of Chaos back and roll on the Surge table. Mostly because rolling on the surge table is fun so I think making it happen more frequently is better for the game and then it takes away the DMs ability to not let characters do their thing.
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So can you quicken a fireball as a bonus action and use empower on it, then use your action to cast a twinned firebolt with empower since it's a different spell and the metamagic restriction says you only can't use more than one metamagic on the same spell except for empower of course?
Good to know you are among the living still. BOO!
"Maybe a feat where you get one or two metamagic options, couple of points" Well this aged incredibly well
Imagine if Sorcerers really studied and applied themselves, nothing could stop them - their mothers
They're so proud of their little casters!
The Bamboozler that's what arcanists are in ua
Then you just pick a wizzard lv right?
This is basically every conversation my teachers have ever had about me, lol
Sorcerers absolutely do need more spells.
I think that the idea of extra thematic spells makes sense. Let's say you take a Draconic Bloodline origin, and choose a dragon that is fire-based. You should have - let's say - 5 extra spells known, but those spells can only be of the element of your bloodline. So I can still learn utility spells such as mage hand, ray of frost, ect. but those take up the existing spells known in vanilla D&D, whereas learning firebolt and fireball take up one of the fire(elemental) learned spells.
I really like sorcerer not for its mechanics but for background versatility since a wizard always makes me feel like there background has to be studying magic. While a sorcerer can have any background and just know magic
Shiloh Elgin I really liked what pathfinder did where they got powers reflecting a plethora of magical backgrounds as well as the arcane sorcerer for non specific backgrounds.
@@joelsasmad same here... jumping back to d& d now can get me confused on what I can do at times. I only played a sorcerer once in D&D 3e. Few times in Pathfinder. I usually muti-class off a druid or cleric. Put played a Poisoner alchemist subclass of Sorcerer in pathfinder.. it was enjoyable
The character I wanted to play is a naïve ten-year-old child. Other classes don't allow that.
First campaign I ever did ,sorc used wild magic they had to roll for wild magic 10 times in a row long after combat was finished obviously, she turned into a pot plant and back, fireballed the party had 1HP left, turned blue, healed herself, hair fell out...then got a kind of curse where if she died within a minute she'd be resurrected as a random race. She was a princess and didnt want to be a blue and bald, we just happened to have been ambushing some orcs from a tower, she was high up, all of a sudden she says "see you soon" we all go nuts when she jumps. Sorc may have its problems but has a special place in my heart because of this.
What did she resurrect as?
A bonus spell list would fix most of the sorcerers problems.
PorterPickUp It doesn't even have to be a long one. like just one guaranteed spell per spell level would be so grateful.
Pretty much.
Honestly I think this would be great, but it would be even easier, and work just as well, to just combine the Wizard and Sorcerer lists into 1 list like they were in Pathfinder.
A bigger spell list would work, but I feel like thematically for the sorceror it would make more sense to have origin spells instead.
I agree, one or two extra spells per spell level, like Clerics get from domains, same for Warlocks.
I've played a wild magic sorcerer and every time I used my wild surge I'd get a tides of chaos on the next turn and it wasn't over powered at all. It was a ton of fun! I ended up blue, a foot shorter, bald, with a beard of feathers at the end of the session.
Rhett bruck Well at least the hair grows back within 24 hours lol. One time I rolled a 2 on the table, giving me rolls every turn for the next minute but then combat ended the next turn so we just rolled all the rest of the results right then and there and I ended up turning the entire party invisible, teleporting into another room, casting fireball on myself, gaining two years of age, and turning myself invisible and silent again. It was a fun time lol
"I can't see why someone would pick a sorcerer over a wizard" proceeds to give the one feature away that makes sorcerers unique in 5e to every other class
Okay, but is that feature good enough to make it better than the extremely versatile wizard?
@@kaseybennett7415 yes it. Metamagic is AMAZING. You have a more narrow spell list, yet you can essentially cast more spells per day then any other class. You can also do more damage then any other caster class. Get Empowered and Twin spell and you get such a boost to damage. Get Subtle spell for unique RP scenarios. You are also Charisma based so you can be the face of the party. I love these guys but I feel he really puts his wizard bias to the front.
@@urkburker681 Arcane Recovery disagrees. In addition, the effects metamagic grants are great, and I'm not saying sorcerers are unplayable or anything (they make some really nice RP builds in specific situations and are pretty good multiclass dips) but the essence of why you play a spellcaster is caught far better in wizard than sorcerer in most cases. Also while you may say sorcerers "deal more damage than any other caster class" I don't entirely agree. They make excellent blasters who can deal a lot of burst damage, but other classes are more sustainable for a long fight. I think that's appropriate thematically, but it's one reason some are drawn away from sorcerer. I can't count the number of times the sorcerer in a party I've DMed for obliterated a hard encounter in about a turn or two, but I also can't count the number of times he simply burnt out after running out of their very temporary abilities. But hey, we all have preferences. I have a player who rarely plays anything other than a sorcerer, so what can I say?
@@kaseybennett7415 "so what can I say?" That you are a tasteless moron? :P
@@mathunit1 I'm not sure if you're insulting me or teasing my player, so I'll leave the reply empty.
All this talk of Metamagic reminds me of the game that I really love: Mage: The Ascension. In that game, Metamagic is the default. Mage character learn Spheres (basically Domains) that cover broad aspects of Reality manipulation. Forces, Life, Time, Mind, Spirit, etc. And you just build individual spells from the areas covered in those Spheres, or even combining two or more Spheres together. The game books list plenty of individual spells, but these are considered just established, formulaic applications of broader Sphere magic. The difference between following a recipe and "feeling out" the preparation of a meal.
Mage: The Ascension also has a different definition of "Sorcerer", which is the opposite of how D&D defines them. Where D&D makes Sorcerers the ones who come into intuitive understanding of magic, and can cast spells without props, MtAs Sorcerers are more like Wizards in D&D (they rely on their props, they have to study forever to get any results, and their magics follow a linear progression of Paths rather than the broad Spheres that Mages use). Mages also need props or foci or instruments...at first. As the Mage advances, they begin overcoming the need to use specific instruments in certain situations (though they can use them anyway, for a difficulty reduction in casting), until they advance to Archmastery and no longer need their tools at all.
It's also worth noting that, in MtAs, "Mage" (and "Sorcerer" for that matter) can be basically any kind of caster that D&D has, and more. Things that D&D calls Clerics and Bards and Warlocks and Paladins and Monks and Artificers, etc, are all just Mages (or Sorcerers) in MtAs. This being because the act of using magic in that universe is a function of belief and Will, meaning any process or system can be used to cast spells, so long as the Mage (or Sorcerer) believes there is power behind it.
The game has a considerable learning curve, as you get your head around the core premise. But once you do, Mage is a fountain of endless, beautiful, insane possibilities.
I like that game though it's a lot of bookkeeping. Sooooo hyped for the new edition!
Love mage the ascension.
Awwww, I love my Wild Magic Sorcerer :'( . So much flexibility with Metamagic and Sorcery points, you can do crazy things with the spells you do know. Twinned spell is great for buffs/debuffs on multiple targets when you normally would only get a single for your concentration. Quickened Spell lets you surprise the DM with extra action economy. Wild magic is fun for the most part, but yes depends on the DM's calls a lot. Everyone's heart skips a beat when you have to roll on that chart: will it be giving everyone Fly, or are you a potted plant for a turn? The group's following laughter after will either be maniacal or tearful ;)
JohnnyV I loved the wild sorcerer. Only one I've played. But it really was entirely dependent on my DM (not Jim). I got to go nova all the time!
JohnnyV I witnessed a guy turn into a plant twice in one night
Cant ever complain about that sub class after that
I always find the table to be to whimsical it's what puts me off sorcerers, it's a neat Idea but too whaky for every campaign
Chris Drew Why not just modify it? Talk with your GM about changing some items on the table around to be more serious or less crazy?
GalacticBaron because I am the GM and I do, but that doesn't mean I have to hold my tongue
To be honest, I rolled up a wild magic sorcerer for flavour more than in game potency.
I agree. D&D is not about getting the best character/team. It is about having fun
and the wild magic is really fun. One thing with “Tides of Chaos”: I as a first
timer as D&D player and DM hade problem knowing when the Sorcerer did a
cantrip or a 1st or higher spell.
I really want to play a sorcerer because the flavour for them is so good, especially the Shadow Sorcerer, but I can never bring myself too because mechanically they just don't look interesting to play.
@RedBairnMedia the way the game SHOULD be played
exactly! every time I hear someone talk about 'optimizing' wild magic or something I die a little inside.
It's for fun. Have Fun With It.
@@binturongjustice believe it or not, having a mechanically interesting and sound character *is* fun for most people, and feeling underpowered and unnecessarily limited by mechanics in a way no one else at the table is *isn't fun* . I love my sorcerer from a roleplay perspective because her backstory is amazing and the themes in her story and personality are neat, but after just a couple real life months of weekly sessions, I'm getting bored and frustrated with the mechanics because I get shown up by every other caster in the group, and they don't even have to *try* for it.
"Rules lawyers suck the joy out of this game."
I'm my groups DM/Storyteller and I can't begin to explain how much I agree with this.
I will say, I am DMing a Curse of Strahd game, where we have a silver dragonborn who is a silver dragon sorcerer due to bloodline. I am having so much fun playing with it as a DM due to the importance of silver dragons in that campaign, and as a PC he is having fun and hasent been having trouble with the class.
I'd also say, for Wild Mage and the table, if I had a wild mage in my party I would have them roll a d20 with every spell, and if they roll under their own spell save DC, they get to roll for it (or maybe roll above) that kind of thing
I like the metamonopoly, despite sorcs being my bottom class. Makes sense that they, as the innate natural casters, have the best control and mastery over their spells. However, I agree with the lack of an arcane infused more standard class. Don't know why they've got such a hard on for the sort of element or superpower focus so far.
one class feature that is dependent on "GM fait" is the cleric's divine intervention.
literally a "please...help?" and the DM just has to decide what to do
Binh Duong I tell my cleric players that they have to pray for something. Not necessarily a specific action, but something to work with. Smite my foe, heal us, protect us, etc.
If they just pray for help, their deity does something that makes sense for them. Illmater would probably give temp hp to protect, tempus would do damage, etc.
Still very DM dependent and I really wish they included some examples beyond replicating any spell would be cool
Given the concept of internal magic, I think simply increasing sorcerer points is the most thematic change. Keep the basic mechanics of both meta magic and slot trades. But decrease the number of given slots and vastly increase sorcerer points. That way it plays more like an internal pool of magic, and less like the structure of a wizard.
You want to be a veritable machinegun of low level spells? Done. You want to focus all of your efforts into a few big blasts? Done. Less variation IS the theme, and the trade is more of what you get. So get off the fence. No additional spell lists. Just lots of magic, right from level 1.
The wizard is the craftsman. The sorcerer is the factory.
As a new player I like the feel of Sorcerers for the RP, they really nailed the "born special" trope in Unearthed Arcana. Between Favored Soul and Shadow you can play the Mary Sue or the Edgelord, I love how shameless it is.
Clockwork Soul in the current playtest has been my favorite experience in D&D so far. The variety of background allows you to make a really unique character, and the abilities focused on absolute order and mechanical constructs lend themselves really well to making an OCD character. That and the ties to Primus allow for an easy Sorcerer/Warlock multiclass.
I hope Clockwork Soul makes it into the next round of UA
Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell is an amazing show, absolutely loved it.
That beach scene is so badass!
Ya man! I loved the interaction towards the end with the unseelie fey and Jonathan Strange once he can finally summon the fey.
"Bring her back to life"
"That is something I cannot do."
:D
I think the way the handbooks justify the metamagic exclusivity with smaller spell list is that a wizard like you said, they study so they have just more spells. In order to do something different with magic, they HAVE to technically cast a different spell...maybe the components are different or the incantation or somatic components is different, but in the end it's technically a different spell. Whereas a sorcerer only gets what they're born with (which I'd love to run a campaign where sorcerers don't get to pick their own spells...because they don't study they don't choose, they just have the ability to do stuff granted by their bloodline) and they're fine with that because they have the ability to bend their spells to do what they want them to. And I know in pathfinder it was the extra features that drew me to sorcerers. All the bloodlines giving a built-in story for your character, and all the cool abilities, be it calling hellfire, breathing lightning like a dragon, or having necrotic corruption that causes whatever you touch to rot. All that being said, I've had so many good experiences with my 5e Halfling dragon sorcerer. Metamagic can REALLY tie into spellcasting based on instinct and emotion. If your friend dies, you don't need to worry about "Oh changing the components of the spell wrong will be very dangerous I need to measure out a different amount of sulfur etc etc etc" no...you just spend a couple sorcery points and you're just shooting off extra fireballs, or calling down a storm of magic missiles or scorching rays.
I love the concept of a Sorcerer in dnd. Sadly I don't think the execution by WotC is sufficient.
It is sufficient. You're just too dumb to execute the sorcerer correctly.
@@mathunit1 Heh. FYI, hurling out insults doesn't make your points any more valid.
Not to mention you are wrong. Sorcerers are one trick ponies, and taking any other approach besides the blaster and the hands down best Metamagic options, just ends up being a detriment rather than a change in approach. So yes, Sorcerers indeed have their problems and have been quite blatantly neglected by WoTC, so before you go around insulting people for their supposedly lower intelligence, perhaps take some time to elaborate on your stance and try to be constructive when you voice your opinions. Thanks
I agree with thus completely
@@silkysnow6793 Thats why Clockwork Soul and Aberrant Mind are so good, tbh.
@@WinterPains Clockwork soul and Aberrant mind break the defining characteristic that is Sorcerer, and do so with still providing a very strong class. What are the 2 things that define a sorcerer mechanically in this edition compared to other casters?
1. Access to metamagic
2. Limited # of spells known
In this UA article by Rodney Thompson, the guy who made the classes for 5e, he discusses how expanding the # of spells known for Sorcerer is a huge ask. This is why the Favored soul archetype he describes at the end of the article has extremely few features that augment spell casting because the first feature of sorcerer expands the # of spells known. Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul have abilities that expand the # of spells known, and also just insanely good features that augment spellcasting with it. And that’s a bad combination for how the game was built.
dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/modifying-classes
I'm playing a storm sorcerer in a game and I'm enjoying it immensely, but yinz are right that Sorcs need some buffing. They can mess with the action economy, but they get winded so fast if the combat goes on to long (which cantrips as they are now help a bit) but I feel that, yea, they should have all the wizard spells as well (I think they did in 3e) and the origins should get some bonus spells, which I'm going to talk to my DM this weekend about me getting those or not.
TBH the sorcerous origins from Xanathar's guide does a good job of showing the potential that sorcerers can have and the flavors of magic they can bring to the game
or people can just let their sorcs learn magic by practicing them for a few days. I don't see why you can't learn magics by seeing others cast stuff and trying to repeat what they did
Mert Kesim That sounds like a really cool idea! I'm gonna try to do that.
It depends a lot on your DM. If he likes to damage your spellbook with water, fire, Area of Effect spells and wont give you any spell scrolls, not enough gold to write them into your book, a sorcerer is much better.
If he's nice and hands you a magic spellbook, which can't be damaged by normal and most magical means or just ignores the possibility of damaging or loosing your spellbook, a wizard learns 3 times the amount of spells plus all the scrolls you can find...
@@ericandreski3025 GIANT SOUL SORCERER
I've really had a lot of fun with my Wild Magic Sorceress, I started with Stealth/Thieves Tools and Persuasion all trained and I've found that my magic made me a better thief and socialite (I eventually grabbed the Actor feat to be more about infiltration) my DM doesn't always remember my Wild Magic, but we've had fun with it when it has come up :-) There's a reoccurring unicorn joke too :-P
I agree the sorcerer definitely needs something more. However my DM let me roll wild magic every time I used advantage and it was one of the most fun characters I've ever played
Suspence I listened to a podcast on Partial Arc where the DM did that and it was awesome sounding.
On the other end of the spectrum I once played with a guy who asked if he could roll on the wild magic table at the beginning of every turn. After the 3rd turn in a row the DM said "You worry about the bandits I'll worry about the wild magic table. Stop asking, I'll tell you."
I mean my longstanding rule is that a player roles a second D20 each time they cast a spell of 1st level or above to determine if they have a wild magic surge on a 1 and if they use tides of chaos then they roll on the wild magic table at the earliest opportunity.
The main gripe I’ve seen is that it can “slow the game down” but honestly it takes almost no additional time whatsoever if you’re being remotely sensible and the player picked that subclass for a reason. Plus who doesn’t like rolling dice? Less bookkeeping a DM has to do for things like that the better as well
I am glad you immediately came out and said you're biased. That's fair. (And it's very noticeable anyway)
I've been home brewing based on the spell secrets ability for the lore master wizard. I felt like for my party's sorcerer manipulating the elements of his spells really matched the wild magic theme. So I let him choose a meta-magic that could change the element of his spells for cost of 1 sorcerer point / spell level (minimum of 1 point). And since we don't have a lore master wizard, it really makes the sorcerer stand out as a intuitive manipulator of spells.
That's a neat idea!
I see your points about the chaos sorc, but Tides of Chaos is a great ability. It's like renewable Inspiration (if you ignore the part about being DM dependant)... but what kind of shitty DM you have to be to don't allow your players to roll on the wild surge table whenever they get the chance? 2/3 of the table are bad or silly effects anyway, most chaos sorcs should fear rolling on it...
Thanks to it, my rogue/sorc is now a 6ft tall, 8 year old kid with blue skin (and if that isn't a great mechanic, I don't know what is)
The last segment of this session was the most insightful thing I have heard in a while regarding the hobby. By God, there's nothing wrong counting every other diagonal as 10 feet of movement!
Also, let's be clear about one thing. Every sorcerer needs a god damn extra spell list, like the cleric and the land druid, and the warlock.
No they don't, fuck off.
J Pru and Jimmy boy back at it
Doing what we do!
Thank you guys for your videos. Your objective and open minded view points are a delight and I could listen to you two talk about anything.
Dragon gives half his heart so you can live? He either has to be on his death bed from age, or the friendliest dragon ever.
Dragonheart reference
@@ryanrhino2318 Look to the stars Bowen, look to the stars... (I love that movie)
I like sorcerers for alot of the thematic ideas. I like their particular flavor of magic being inherited and natural to them, because that opens possibilities for stories for magicians that are more reckless and less in-control of their powers. A sorcerous origin is basically fantasy-allegory for puberty, which fits well with the "Coming of age" stories that alot of D&D works with from my experiences. You can do alot with their origins. It could be a family bloodline thing, it could be the side-effects of a curse or a freak arcane accident, it could be a psuedo-patron thing they've got going on, it has the most versatility from a narrative perspective and for that reason, it is my go-to spellcaster character, only delving into Wizards and Warlocks when I have a good hook for them, as opposed to sorcerers, who can do magic just because.
I can agree that they are flawed. 5th edition in particular doesn't really take advantage of the second really cool thing about sorcerers; The sorcerous origins. The idea that their magical origins is tied to their blood is a really cool idea and as far as I can see, some of the older edition sorcerers had this thing, where their bodies would begin to mutate and change in accordance to their bloodline. This is only ever solidly a thing with 2 paths in 5e, Draconic and Shadow. Draconics get Dragon scales at first level and can sprout dragon wings at 14th, while Shadow Magic makes a character effectively undead and kinda vampiric (Why they don't get Vampiric touch, I do not know). Not all too crazy, but still, it's something. None of the other archetypes really take advantage of this enough to be cool.
I love the wild sorcerer. I let the player roll but only I get to check the result and then I describe what happens in a descriptive way, "You feel an electric charge building up, choose three targets quickly!" or telling them they shouted their last line when they meant to whisper it.
My first player wanted to roll all the time, the second never remembers he has it.
I play a Wild Mage in a 2e campaign, using the Tome of Magic supplement. Just looking at the 5e Wild Mage, I can only think “Oh, how the mighty have fallen.” In 2e, the Wild Mages were ridiculous. You rarely cast spells at your actual level, and Wild surges could do anything. Strengthening or hampering the spell, summoning anything from 10,000 butterflies to a extra-planer creature, enlarging the targets feet, or just randomly enchanting items (which was much harder in 2e). They were just so much fun.
"I can't see why I would pick a sorcerer over a wizard." That sums up my thoughts on sorcerers.
Chad-Solomon Dixon wizards for life
Chad-Solomon Dixon the only exception would be dipping for metamagic if you're a CHA based caster.
Represent!
Yup Bards and Palies.
I was kinda forced to play a sorcerer because we were forced to have a higher than normal CHA :( it is so limited compared to a wizzard and can't be a blaster quite as good as a warlock. so yea it's not that great. I played it because we needed a wizzard and a warlock can cut it when it comes to being a more flexible caster.
I think it'd be cool if sorcerers didn't need a spell focus or material components to cast their spells.
I'd take that over a bigger spell list honestly.
Good idea
They did that in Pathfinder. Sorcerers automatically start off with Eschew Materials as a bonus feat at first level, if I remember correctly.
Actually that’s not a bad idea
One feature with Sorcerers that I hate, is sorcery points. You can use them to create spell slots but you also have to use them for metamagic. So, you use the sorcery points to create a spell slot but then don't have enough for the metamagic to use for the spell, or you have enough for the metamagic, but, what's this, you don't have enough for a spell slot which is needed for metamagic!
Out of curiosity, who came up with the name "Web DM"? It's perfect, so I just want to give them a shout out.
That was me. Thanks! Trav (our production guy) had been wanting to do a youtube show, didn't matter what subject. One day driving home it pops in my head, and since I always ask Jim Davis for advice....the format was already set. We were shooting shows within a couple months.
JPruInc That's awesome! I'm a relatively new fan but you guys are doing a great job. I've watched nearly all of your videos already.
a callback to the old medical information site WebMD ? maybe subconsciously?
paul coy
Oh, definitely! I work in the medical field..it was an intentional reference.
The appeal of sorcerers to me is simply the roleplay aspect. I just love the idea of the sorcerer having this innate connection to magic, especially the dragon sorcerer.
I haven't had a chance to play, but I want to sometime play a half-dragon sorcerer and on top of that go down the dragon disciple path. There's a bit of overlap with the breath weapon, but that's something I'd have to look at with the DM. Playing up that draconic heritage and acting like an arrogant red dragon just sounds like so much fun. Centering a fireball on myself and then walking out of the flames like some goddamn demon out of hell because of my draconic fire immunity. Eventually the character would beseech Tiamat to free him of his prison of a human body and take to the skies as a true dragon. It's painful when you have a character that you really want to play, but no group to play with.
(As an artist I of course have painted this character concept: doodlemoogle.deviantart.com/art/Gentrilicious-608305362 )
Web DM is my favorite drug.
MDMA is slightly better only because it causes threesomes at a higher rate then D&D.
You saying Davis (left nerd) doesn't cause threesomes because I beg to differ!
Mixed feelings about being thaaat addicting. ;)
Hype to be playing a favoured soul in an upcoming campaign - twin healz, twin haste, twin fucking death
That's the thing Jim kinda hinted at. All archetypes that really give that "special feel" to sorcerers are in the UA & have expanded spell lists. Stormborn is a perfect example in that the only difference between the SCAG & the UA is the expanded list.
That said, I really did enjoy playing a Favoured Soul in a short campaign a while back myself...
Nice guy DM here: if you want to give someone a memorable Wild Mage, there is a table you can use called "The Net Libram of Random Magical Effects" which has 10,000 wild surge results. You might want to alter some effects when you roll them though if they are too strong (aka don't let a detect magic spell blow up the nearest star).
My "fix" for the sorcerer is to either give them a bonus spell list, or refresh their sorcery points on a short rest.
In one of my in-person games, our halfling sorceress wanted to be able to roll on the wild magic table more often. I forget what the number range is, but she hits it pretty often. She has to date turned into a potted plant half a dozen times, sprouted a beard of multicolored feathers that she kept for several levels, grown by 6 inches, turned us all invisible, and nearly blasted us into oblivion a few times. All in all, it really does add to the enjoyment of the game.
Sorcerers have great flavor and can give great inspiration for their backstories, but mechanically they do seem to be lacking a bit.
I agree that adding a: generic arcanist origin, a bonus spell list (with one unique spell each depending on the color dragon heritage), and access to more spells (specifically wizard, but maybe even some druid for the storm sorcerer/ power of nature theme)
Never be afraid to show informed, well researched opinions. Good work gentleman.
I love how you brought up the Draconic Bloodline for sorcerers and I am just thinking of my favorite character who is a Half-Silver Dragon Sorceress who took a feat in 3.5e/Pathfinder that allows her to turn every single element based spell (like Fireball) into cold damage. She's not at Fireball level yet, but she does love to throw her Freezing Ray (Scorching Ray using cold damage) around.
If a sorcerer have access to 3 schools of magic only and a bonus spell list aligned to their theme I think that would be fine.
No, sorcerers don't need more spells. Fuck off.
RE Tides of Chaos/Wild magic surge interplay, I had the sorcerer at my table roll a d20 every time he cast a spell of 1st level or higher, and a surge would trigger on a roll of twice the slot level or lower. Reinforced the risk versus reward angle, kept dangerous surges minimal at low levels where they could be disastrous, played into the whole "magic unchained" angle where greater power increases the chance of something going wrong, and let him use the Tides of Chaos feature often enough where it was useful.
I got a few ideas on how to apply metamagic to the other classes that are not the sorcerer.
1) Feats: general metamagic feat, pick a style of metamagic, you can use it say twice per long rest.
2) Somehow apply the old 3rd edition metamagic rules to the non-sorcerer classes. You can have the subtle fireball, but you're going to have to burn a 4th level slot but it will still have the power of a 3rd level spell, and so forth.
the DM for my campaign has given our Sorcerer wild magic shots. He downs a shot which is infused with pure magic and lets him roll on the table.
As a note for DMs on a several year old video...if you need a mage type NPC baddie, sorcerers are great in that role. You don't have to worry about them having 25+ spells to potentially track, and metamagic can really throw off your party. Subtle spells is one of the few ways a single mage can reliably get spells off against a counterspell heavy party (mine currently has 4/5 with it...). Twinning Blights or fingers of death is just sweet. Highly recommended!
YES DRAGONHEART REF!
"I am the last one!"
GrimBrotherIV Yes
I find, in my experience, that players that go sorcerers instead of wizard do so to avoid the need to keep a huge spell book.
Would love a follow up video to this covering both Divine and Shadow soul Sorcerers from Xanathar.
Hey Web DM idk if you see comments but because of this video I just binged all of Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norell in a day! It was a good time
Bonus Spells + Bigger Spell List + More Spell Slots
Honestly, the prime use for Sorcerer these days is making Gishes if you ask me.
I agree with this. Two Levels in paladin and the rest into sorcerer. Go Booming Blade and Mobility and Twin spell. You can lock down a lot of the battle field.Cast create bonfire as a bonus action. So much potential.
Agreed. I suppose Hexblade provides another option to make Gishes. But yeah I can see the case for any dip into Paladin from 2-7 depending on Sorcererous Origin, Balance between melee and spell casting and how long your campaign will run. Although I will say 2-18 was great with the old Favoured Soul.
KSeguun HOLD MONSTER + SMITE IN THE SAME ROUND!
The way I think of metamagic is that it has to do with how the spells are cast: sorcerers weave the magic on the spot, where wizards prepare a specific pattern in advance. So, if a wizard were to use metamagic, they would be preparing a different version of a spell, which would be a different prepared spell that the regular one. An easy way to do that might be to make it cost spell levels like in 3E, or rare materials might be needed in preparation like what Jim and Pruitt were saying.
How dare you tell me what I can and can't like! I will like this episode regardless of what you say!
Just presenting two opinions. And, thanks!
I think a bonus spell list would be great, but I also think a really easy fix is if they had more sorc points, or if they could be renewed on a short rest.
Pfft, Wild Magic Sorcerer forever
David Hyland There will always be two sorcerous origins: Wild Magic and Ball-less Magic
Depending on how the wild magic goes, they both might be ball-less at the end of the day
Gotta get that 01-02 roll on the wild magic surge table
My favorite is divine sorcerer. Gives you a whole new spell lost to pick from. Use bonus action for spiritual weapon, and action for spell casting. My favorite combo is Extended spell + mage armor. Lasts all day long.
I play a Phoenix origin Kitsune sorceress using Tabaxi stats.
The Favored Soul Sorcerer is likely the best designed Sorcerer subclass, since it gives you Cure Wounds as a free additional spell usage without needing to select it, and it grants you access to the cleric list for additional spell list selections.
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES! Waited for ages to get some mad insight about sorcerers from you guys!
Hope you weren't disappointed.
Personally sorcerer is one of if not my favorite class. It was the first spellcasting class I picked up and I just loved it since. I love the versatility in the fact I don't need to prepare spells or study I just need to sleep and have spell slots. Regardless on whether I prepared it or not I can just fireball it up. I also really do love the potential for roleplaying why you are just good at magic. Its also gives good oppurtunties for multiclassing as some origins are you survive a near death experience. But expanded spell lists would defiantly help fix some of the issues it has
My adjustment for Wild Mage is that rather than rolling a 1 for wild surges I have it set as a 17-20. This gives the player a 1/5 chance when casting a spell to have a surge go off. With Tides of Chaos I allow them one use per long rest, and if they get a Wild surge it refreshes their use of ToC. I've found this allows the player to actually feel like a Wild mage. Magical effects randomly firing off and all that. Happens frequently enough that the player enjoys the class but no so frequent generally that it just goes crazy (though there is the chance for that to happen and when it does it's awesome).
Interesting how Jim and Pru pretty much nailed the Metamagic Adept feat 4 years before it was printed.
Hey guys, I've been watching since the fall and just zany to say I love the content y'all are putting out! Keep up the good work :)
FINALLY! and the wait was worth it as my views on Sorcerer were validated yay! It's like Wotc got scared Sorcerer would eclipse Wizard and nerfed their spell list and spells known into oblivion. There are a few other things with 5e Sorcerer I'll point out.
1. Sorcerer should have been the specialist in being the best at a particular type of magic with Wizards being more of a generalist. Thing is this isn't the case when you have things like an ice Sorcerer not being able to use ice wall while a Wizard can. You are right bonus, themed, spell lists that don't count against your spell's known should have been in from the start. With the Draconic Sorcerer I'd even be happy to give up using the other Draconic elements if I could use my element to it's fullest potential. An ice dragon casting fire just feels wrong and it's how they could have kept Sorcerer balanced to Wizard.
2. The whole concept of a Sorcerer lacking knowledge in magic is itself dumb as it's not how it works in real life or with common sense. When you are naturally good at something you tend to pursue that career. That's why most basketball players are tall. If fire bolts started shooting from my hands I'd want to know why and how to control it!
3. The way you gain resistance through Draconic Sorcerer's Elemental Affinity is not thought out. You first have to attack with a spell of your element and then spend a spell point to gain resistance for an hour. Think about it. When will your character likely think they need elemental resistance? Well when they see something that is likely to use that element? Thing is the same things you think will attack you with a specific element are usually resistant or immune to that element, yet you aren't, brilliant Wotc -_-. So you end up wasting a spell slot for half or no damage, a spell point and a turn for resistance. Like most everything else in the game could you not just give me resistance to the element I am?
4. With the assumed fear of Sorcerer eclipsing Wizard you'd think Wotc would have done something about multi-classing into Warlock. Sure most multi-classing makes you more powerful, which is fine, but if Sorcerer is specifically supposed to be a blaster not multi-classing into Warlock will hurt you. Three Warlock levels literary gets you Sorcerous Restoration, the lvl 20 sorcerer capstone, hex and the best cantrip in the game. If you are going to be regulated to blasting cantrips why would you NOT want the best cantrip! I guess you get slower spell progression but then you get the lvl 20 Sorcerer capstone far earlier.
5. Sorry Pruitt, maybe you mis-spoke, but you can only use one meta-magic option on your turn, with the exception of empowered spell. You can't use Twin and Quicken on the same turn.
6. I had an idea for an additional ability for Wild Magic Sorcerer which you may like as it causes them to be more of a generalist while keeping their theme...
Spell Savant: You don't know how you do it but your innate talent for magic allows you to copy any spell you see.
At level 6, as a reaction, if you can see the somatic gestures and hear the vocals, regardless of language, of a spell being cast you may learn that spell. This reaction may be declared after the spell takes effect but before the next turn. The spell does not have to be on your spell list nor does it count against your spells known, however, you may only learn one spell at a time in this manner. Learning another spell in this way causes you to forget the first. To cast the spell normal restrictions apply as you must have a spell slot of an appropriate level and any material components. In addition going asleep, taking a long rest or going unconscious causes you to forget any spell learned in this manner. At level 12 you no longer forget the spell if you sleep or long rest, at level 18 you no longer forget the spell if you go unconscious.
I'd also replace the 07-08 Wild Magic Surge, the infamous TPK Fireball, with an option that makes you forget any spell learned with Spell Savant. Though I'm not sure what that roll should do until level 6.
It gives the Wild Magic Sorcerer not only flexibility and more strategy but a mechanic not yet present in the game. While at the same time it keeps the Wild Magic theme with a certain amount of randomness. Should you save your reaction to protect yourself with shield, X-copy your Cleric mid-battle to help with healing or wait for the big bad guy's spell, X-copy it, and then turn it against him! Applying meta-magic to a copied spell makes even more possibilities. Learn a powerful spell you don't want to lose and you'll want to get knocked out even less. Also note a Sorcerer using Subtle Spell could not be copied as you could not see and hear them casting nor a creature which uses a spell as an innate ability and does not "cast" it.
I'm sorry Jim, that's alright. That was a beautiful. Favourite Web DM moment so far. Keep it up gentlemen.
Draconic ancestry is pretty useful though - higher AC and higher HP throughout the campaign does give an edge over the wizard and other sorcerer options if there’s going to be a lot of damage going on. However, just 15 spells known plus 6 cantrips is a lot to sacrifice for just that...
Much like everything in DnD, the problems can be fixed with magic items and by having a decent DM. More focused scope with limited selection is pretty much how it always goes, you trade one thing for another.
10:23, damn!!! You guys predicted the Metamagic Adept feat YEARS before it came out!! Props!!!
Currently have an elven dragonblood sorcerer that I adore playing! Her background is criminal (hitman) and she is a Dex/Chr build. I am using Alter Self and Misty Step as her 2nd level spells and Chromatic Orb to twin and subtle and twinning as her metamagic effects.. Having the ability to fire off 2 Chromatic Orbs simultaneously without warning has given her quite the intimidation factor and having Iarno's glass staff from Phandelver seriously raises her AC when needed. She has above average stealth and with Subtle can often times get a surprise round on an opponent. The rest of her party is scared to death of her and thank the stars she is on their side (for now).
The feeling I get is that Sorcerer is a good multiclass base.
I'm running a Wild Magic Sorcerer that had a con artist background (low Int - high Charisma) that has multiclassed into Rogue. He's a 7th WMSorceror / 4th Arcane Thief with 0 magical background (he got his spells for Thief through raiding a magical library, but still has an Arcana skill bonus of -1).
Absolute blast to play, because he doesn't understand magic beyond his own personal cause/effect, but he has sneak attack and thief armor for when the slots get screwy.
Sorcerers, the class that exists only because someone couldn't keep it in their pants when they met a Dragon
Sorcerer is the least played class in my group. In any game I've ran, I've had two Sorcerers and both were Wild Magic. My players asked if they could roll on Wild Magic table every time they cast a 1st level or higher spell. I love it, they love it. It makes Wild Sorcerer my favorite sorcerer.
currently playing a sorcerer in my campaign, played a wizard in the past. The Sorcerer now feels like the obvious choice to me between the two for one BIG reason: You don't have to RP a brainiac. Sorcerer's leave a lot more roleplay options open because you didn't spend your whole life studying.
In the TV show Magicians, one villain can cast more complex spells because he added an extra finger to his hand, and their magic is hand gesture based.
As far as reason why meta magic would be a sorcerer's domain, it's that they have something that knowledge doesn't enable.
Using tools and ingredients to enable some meta magic on others might make sense, likewise, sorcerers could do the opposite and gain access to other spells with the same.
It's natural to assume an innate magician would acces all spells easier, but their orientation might be limited to, or limiting of their access.
Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell is an awesome book. Read it twice.
I wish she'd write another book.
Honestly, sorcerers are awesome the thing that would make you snap your fingers and go yes would be to make their Sorcery point to spell conversion more forgiving. Being able to burn a high-level spell for more low-level spells is epic but it would be nice if i could craft more higher level spells.
I agree, sorcs have a real hard time finding their thematic niche.
I think the idea behind sorcerers being naturally in tuned with the magic around them and not particularly well read needs to be capitalised on harder because the mechanics and the theme are a bit out of sync.
An idea I've been floating around my DM for a houseruled sorc is something like ""Natural Magic"" where depending on their environment they get a large bonus to a spell in tune with that environment.
Two options around that theme, still maintaining your reduced spell list:
Extra hit dice - when near, a fire for example, and you cast a fireball add some extra attack dice to it.
Gated Spells - Only have available pure arcane spells at all times but when you are near an environmental effect you gain ALL spells related to that effect, so if it's very windy, or very cold you can gain all spells related to that effect with a bonus.
Themes have to make the class standout which if you're not going for "pretty good at everything spells" aka the wizard, you need to have very defining strengths and weaknesses. Obviously balancing mechanics properly is a bitch but I like having a compelling theme personally.
At my table we have a home rule for Wild Mage where if it doesn't go off the first time, it goes from 1-2, and then from 1-3, etc.
I am VERY excited to see your opinions on the Unearthed Arcana Sorcerer options. I feel they are amazing. They hit a couple of your gripes here.
I agree. We'll get to it!
JPruInc I have faith it will be worth the wait ;)
What I'd like to see is an emphasis of sorcerers on the magic changing their body, like in WFRP but it's beneficial. There's already a bit of this, but thematically to me it makes the most sense.
So this is old now, but I've really come to appreciate HOW spell lists are created between wizards and sorcerers. A wizard will focus on spells from their school, obviously having more OOMPH in them. While sorcerers choose spells based on the metamagic abilities they had chosen. Casting illusions with silent spell/ having only rays to work with twin spells/ Empower for the huge dice fall spells/HEIGHTENED FORCES DISADVANTAGE!!!! FOR 3 POINTS!!! I feel like they are closer to one trick ponies, which can be fun to play.
My favorite use of sorc is to take it as the starting class for 1-4 levels and get the Con and Cha save proficiency, and then multi-calss into bard or Warlock for my actual build. Also nice to pick up the high number of Cantrips Sorc offers, as well as potential access to low level cleric spells or the Draconic Resilience feature which is basically like perma mage armor. Then there's the added bonus of having a couple meta magic options which can be used strategically to great effect. I feel like there's lots of great uses for sorc, it's just not very tempting as a pure class. At least not for me.
I do feel like the sorcerer exists as a beginner's magic class.
That said, if the fighter is the same way, the fighter does it better.
Truth.
They also share a thematic appeal, that being how they can come from almost any walk of life and still make sense.
@@roboticjanitor3332 for sure
That makes sense, a wizard is a slave to magic and a sorcerer is the bringer/inventor of it. That is why wizards go mad, because they cannot create as the sorcerer does. but a quintessential wizard is always on the verge of inventing a new spell so idk lol
My sister plays a Sorcerer who specializes in fire. She also has duplicate spell. I allow her to use duplicate spell as many times as she can while still using her Sorcery points. So many fireballs in one turn. It's beautiful.
Honestly those last 10 seconds of banter made this video. I too am pretty impartial to Sorcerers, but man do I love me some Warlock. Can't wait till next week.
this was an idea i had for sorcerer(because of you guys), it's an arcanist as in someone who is connected to the arcane it's self. at 1st level: your spell list for your spell slots come from both wizard and sorcerer spell list.
at 1st level: you also are able to reroll 1's and 2's from one die pool from a spell you cast, after this happens you can't do it again until you take a short rest.
6th level: increase your sorcery points to your charisma mod, also you can now activate two metamagic feats onto one spell.
14th level: you can spend 2 sorcery points as a metamagic feat to gain an advantage on your current spell that you are casting.
18th level: add your charisma mod to your arcane spell damage.
let me know what you guys think, it's a generic idea and it give sorcerer a punch.
So far I gave grown 2 inches permanently, turned blue, teleported for free, grown an extra eye. My DM and I sat down and determined when I would be able to roll to see if a wild magic surge occurs and added a couple extra ways to trigger it. We both agree that the surges are fun and add something unique to the game and like to have them happen. Even with added other times it can happen (when I use my lucky feat or halfling luck) it is still relatively rare.
As a DM I would rule that a sorc once per turn can cast an additional spell first level or higher that is no more than a single action at the cost of sorc points, 1 per spell level. So a 2nd level spell costs 2 points. This gives them the action economy and mastery that other arcanist dont have
I agree with the metamagic monopoly, to a degree, but I also agree that the other spellcasting classes should have access to it. My first thought would be to just add it as a feature later on at higher level and it costs more points per use, due to the sorcerer having the instinctual understanding. I'm currently playing a draconic sorcerer (level 16) and we haven't had any issues in my party except for when my in-game master cast a meteor swarm on the wizard's tower we were in. I think partially that my satisfaction with the class so far is that I had a backstory already done and a theme built up, so I kind of like my seemingly slight encumbrances
I’ve had this idea for the wild mage, using cantrips doesn’t get close enough for wild potential. However when using “leveled magic” any use could potentially result in a wild outcome. After using a leveled spell always roll a D20. If the player hasn’t used a leveled spell all day then give the random chance, i.e. rolling a D10, a 1 results in rolling the D20.
Also about giving the sorcerer bonus spells: they tried that in an UA with favored soul origin who also gained the domain spells of whichever cleric domain they choose at level 1, netting them 10 free spells. In some combinations, this outright broke the class which is also the reason why the SCAG storm sorcerer took away the bonus spell list from the UA storm sorcerer.
I love your ending tags so much! Keep up the good videos!
Reading Tides of Chaos in the book and Wild Magic Surge in the book. It seems like both rely on initially casting a spell. So I would say after casting a spell you roll your d20: a 1 makes you roll on the table and I would say if they rolled a 20 instead of 1, then they get Tides of Chaos back and roll on the Surge table. Mostly because rolling on the surge table is fun so I think making it happen more frequently is better for the game and then it takes away the DMs ability to not let characters do their thing.