I don't care how bad or good it is, I want more poems from people who you would think have no business writing poetry. I want more poems from celebrities, knowing they will be talked about, thereby inspiring regular people to read poetry or make their own. If all Josh Brolin's poem does is lead to ten thousand crappy poems, it's worth it to get people engaging with poetry more. If nobody is inspired to read or write one by it, it's still worth it because it was an expression of his soul and his creativity. Like you said, if people are writing and reading poetry that is an overall good thing. With that said, I don't personally think it's bad, just uninteresting and incomplete. But I really enjoyed your breakdown and reasons for not liking it.
I kinda liked it tho. I agree some parts are stilted, vague, or cliche. But the directness of lines like "The way you hold my gaze makes me fear my own age" works for me. And the enjambment in the last stanza brings out a boyish awkwardness. It's like Chalamet has finally propositioned him, but all he can do is stammer out a tragic rejection while he chokes on his insecurity. Intentional or not, the homoeroticism enhances the poem for me, personally.
See it’s not the worst poem I’ve ever read, but it is, as you’ve pointed out, simplistic. Grieving lost youth is not a novel theme but the harsh reminder of looking at a youthful person is a nice addition. That being said, very little of the poem was actually expressive. Most of it was uncommunicative and almost arbitrary.
One brief perspective on "youth-laden," I think could be a reference to the way younger actors are taken less seriously by producers, directors, and audiences; youth and the appearance of it can become a burden for someone who wants to inhabit something deeper than a silly cartoon. Divorced from the context, that same ageism is alive and well across industries where young professionals are given short shrift, while older people are given deference simply by their age. We often hear ageism discussed as something to the detriment of the very old, those nearing what is typically considered retirement age, and it's often misapplied when we talk about, for example, doddering politicians holding office well into their inevitable, sharp decline. It's rare to have that ageism shown as cutting in the other direction, which is itself a manifestation of ageism; We don't typically think of youth as a disadvantage, when it very often can be. So I dunno, maybe there's something there? I don't necessarily think the author intended it, but everyone gets the benefit of the doubt for stumbling into good ideas.
I actually love that haiku. Here's my junior analysis based on two minutes of consideration. "Lie down in the light" - the "light" is a clear allusion to the spotlight, the theatre stage, the film set. When you're in the light, you're on camera. To "lie down" in the light might suggest that it's relaxing, that it's home; the light is where he belongs. However, lying down is something that, depending on the circumstances, is very exposing. When you lie down, your guard is down, you're defenseless. And there's the connotation of "lie down" as relating to sex; to lie down is to be naked, to be made vulnerable. In the light, you often have to be vulnerable. "As fictional characters" - in the context of acting and filmmaking, the fictional characters are clearly the other actors playing roles that you have to interface with as you act out the story. There are expectations to be met by the script and interior world. But taken with the next line - "watch you from afar" - the "fictional characters" are probably the audience members, the people behind the light, the people you lie down in front of. The audience are real people, but they're so detached from you that they may as well be fictional. You don't know their names, and most often you can't even see their faces - real, and yet not. Their gaze, penetrating from on high, is almost another source of light. So, in full: acting demands complete vulnerability from an actor, and by necessity, there will be an audience to see you in that state, but the audience doesn't have to be vulnerable for you. It's not shared; it's a one-way avenue. And that's a perilous, frightening thought, to be all alone in the light.
I actually found “youth-laden” to be quite effective in communicating both the facial features and some more holistic aspect of Josh Brolin’s view on Timothee. The weight of the eyes contrasting with the way the “cheekbones jump” paints a picture of deep, wide, sullen eyes, but still holding enough “youth” to be piercing and smooth. This especially works with the juxtaposition of “adolescence” and “etched” given the opposite implications of smooth, soft charisma and sharp lines, carved out of pristine rock, oozing with mature masculinity. On top of that, I think the addition of some kind of heaviness is an indication of how Brolin views this youth as something confounding not just in the way it inevitably fades in time, but also in the inherent beauty it holds in the first place. I think, overall, the poem sought to communicate a yearning that Brolin himself couldn’t quite place.
Josh Brolin's bi awakening was not on my bingo card for 2024, but I'm here for it. P.S. The repetition of the word "something," culminating with it having a line all to itself, suggests to me that the narrator is pointedly avoiding saying what that something actually is. He's afraid to tell us. He's afraid to tell himself.
I think the abruptness and awkwardness of the poem actually serves the (accidental/purposeful?) homoeroticism. The cliches and stilted awkwardness in the last stanza make it feel more genuine. I kinda like it!
Think the poem itself could use another draft but admittedly, it was a neat insight, this juxtaposition of an older actor to his younger contemporary. I hadn’t heard about the poem but I really liked your video breaking the whole thing down!
My attempt at a revised version: Your face is impressed by juvenescence. Your cheekbones jump toward young eyes unburdened that slide down to a nose and onto lips pursed upward. When my eyes roll up to you and my gaze is devoured by yours I can feel my added years weighing you down. Something within me says, "he's going to offer me a way out." But I'm not sure that I even want that anymore.
I honestly love this video. What a nuanced take on this poem. I also love the mention of Chinua Achebe’s “Things Fall Apart”-I thought of it the moment you named the theme! What an amazing read. It’s funny, too, that TS Eliot is one of my favorite poets of all time, but Love Song just never spoke to me. In a weird way, this video was almost therapeutic for an English major who always felt very out of place, haha. So thanks for sharing this
My first thought when reading it went to Death in Venice by Thomas Mann with the older author becoming obsessed with the young Tadzio to much creepier lengths than Brolin's poem. But it develops that thought into ideas of a loss of dignity that comes with age, the attempts to preserve youth, the nature of creating beautiful art internally vs living beautifully externally, and a lot more. I guess what I'm saying is it would have made the poem much more interesting if he elaborated on what the "offer" was, a look back on himself as a young actor?
Something about the last section and the line breaking gives it some sense of self realization, that even the poem knows its droning on about something that people may not find interesting. From someone that definitely doesn’t write poetry(yet) and doesn’t read much poetry, it gave a very real feeling to me that this may not have had a need to be written, but he did anyway.
I find it silly to formally critique something created by a nonpoet in a nonprofessional manner. All of us are pulled to create some sort of art sometime in our lives, it’s a pretty innate way of expressing ourselves, but not all art merits formal critique. What the general audience coming across this gets from it and what a poetry critic gets from it is like the difference between what a food critic and an average Joe gets from eating greasy fast food; it just wasn’t intended for “refined tastes”, but at the end of the day nonprofessional art has 0 requirement to be elevated to hit right.
Honestly, though, here's the thing: Poetry is an art everyone wants to write and no one wants to read. That's why so many poets are bad, and the hoi polloi can't tell the difference.
before i even got to the end of the video i was thinking, this feels similar to megan fox simply in the sense that Brolin could write a little better poetry if he just studied it a little more or had a thesaurus or something. great analysis and insights!
Disclaimer that I am a prose writer, not a poet. I love words as a tool of expression but I use and think about them differently than a poet would. I actually quite liked both "etched" and "laden" as descriptors. They hint at a deeper meaning behind the descriptions of the subject's youth. "Lines etched into her face" is a standard-to-the-point-of-cliche way of describing a person who is older or has been prematurely aged through stress or weariness. (Or maybe it's just a phrase I like too much...) "Laden" similarly evokes a burden that, when paired with "youth", makes what we culturally - especially in a place like Hollywood - see as an advantage into a hindrance. It's almost like the poem is in dialog with the speaker - the speaker is lamenting their age in contrast to the subject's youth, and the poem is responding that youth is not free from problems. "Laden" also implies a weight, which transitions neatly into the eyes sliding down in the second half of the line, and I would guess that's probably closer to why Brolin chose that particular word. The poem definitely could do with polishing, and I absolutely agree that it reads like Chalomet is about to offer to use those lips on Brolin back in the trailer, but I enjoyed the journey I went on thinking about it.
I find the poem creepy. This old person who "just can help himself" bc the young person is just so attractive. Furthermore, it suggests beauty and youth itself is a proposal. Personally, it reminds me of a creep who harassed all the women of a team. When someone clarified that one particular girl was giving him ZERO hints, he responded "her body is a provocation" wtf, she can change her clothes and demeanor but how does she change her body? I just hate this poem.
To me, it sounds like a poetic description of one particular interaction between the two. It doesn't mean much, it's just something he did. No need to bash on him
the whole bit about "youth-laden" is really funny bc I think in a different setting it could be interesting, but here it kinda just serves to highlight how shallow this whole deal is
Brolin is very direct in his poem and that in itself adds a layer that has less to do with the poem but the poet. I think it's sort of beautiful how he words it's as if a confession after long nights of restlessness and burdensome regret. That aside, your video seems a bit vengeful, why beat on Brolin? Granted, he's not a great poet, but he has something to say and he doesn't know how best to say it so he does. Let him. He's speaking, so let him.
I really like your poetry analysis! Your Megan Fox video was A++. Very thoughtful and not in the least bit sexist. However, I have to disagree with you on one point here. "And the way you hold my gaze / makes me fear my own age" is actually a killer line, and your rewrite is awkward and cluttered: "When your gaze devours mine / It tastes my added years of anxiousness at the back of my throat."
A poem to me has to really say something insightful and tell a story to be good in my opinion. It’s mostly just funny to me that Brolin is sitting around a movie set writing poetry
Travesty doesn’t mean tragedy, right? I always hear people use the words almost interchangeably but I think it’s just a common mistake. (Reacting to your use of the word in the section about the Tay Bridge)
I really love your videos, but I did want to bring up something that bumped me a little. While I'm not a person that has an intense want (or the many skills required) to evaluate an art-piece based on the technical aspects of the craft, I appreciate and am entertained by those that do, like yourself! With that said, I don't understand the want to rewrite a piece in your own language and present it as evidence of something better. I understand the idea that some words may be more entertaining, but that's completely subjective, right? A piece of writing or art can't be made "better" post-completion. It's as good or as bad as it ever can be once the artist completes the work. To me, someone putting something new that they like on a piece of someone else's art and asking "isn't it better this way" felt kinda gross and made me cringe a bit. Didn't sour me on you by any means, but I was curious as to how you might justify it. Thanks for what you do!
have you ever seen a movie or read a book and thought the story or a shot might've been better if it hapoened differently? maybe it would've had a more consistent theme with a different ending? it's a very natural impulse imo. that said, it made me cringe too, but i think it's just because poetry is very easy to deride
Eyes sliding down a nose and onto lips is one of those analogies you really need to test against a literal interpretation. It accidentally implies Chalamet’s eyeballs are falling out! Obviously that’s not what’s meant, but you need to proof your phrasing against that kind of thing.
Roughest drafts, do you happen to be a fan of the Well Theres your problem podcast? They did an episode on the tay bridge disaster and mentioned the poem
I was given the advice by some people to simple down my poetry, like i was telling it to a friend. But from your video i might think simplfying something might be bad…not sure if im correct ?
I think its misguided to try and price poetry books based on how skillfully their poems are written. Most things aren’t priced using quality as a metric. Why should this* be? I’ve heard you express this opinion in earlier videos. Why is this something you believe? You’ve said the buyer would likely be disappointed by the poetry inside, but why would they buy it without reading even one poem? Couldn’t they just open the book before buying? *Edit: “this” used to say “they”. Mistyped.
As much as it's not to my taste, elevating the amateurish poetry of an amateur poet for critique - solely because they're a big name elsewhere - feels like a cataclysmic waste of effort. I'll give you this though, it is timely. As a suggestion, why not offer to critique viewer submissions in a less glib way?
trying to decipher the thumbnail/title with zero context was a TRIP
Gurney Alleck's actor writing a poem about Paul's actor is very in character.
This is true!!
If only Josh Brolin were in on that fact!
I don't care how bad or good it is, I want more poems from people who you would think have no business writing poetry. I want more poems from celebrities, knowing they will be talked about, thereby inspiring regular people to read poetry or make their own. If all Josh Brolin's poem does is lead to ten thousand crappy poems, it's worth it to get people engaging with poetry more. If nobody is inspired to read or write one by it, it's still worth it because it was an expression of his soul and his creativity. Like you said, if people are writing and reading poetry that is an overall good thing. With that said, I don't personally think it's bad, just uninteresting and incomplete. But I really enjoyed your breakdown and reasons for not liking it.
I kinda liked it tho. I agree some parts are stilted, vague, or cliche. But the directness of lines like "The way you hold my gaze makes me fear my own age" works for me. And the enjambment in the last stanza brings out a boyish awkwardness. It's like Chalamet has finally propositioned him, but all he can do is stammer out a tragic rejection while he chokes on his insecurity. Intentional or not, the homoeroticism enhances the poem for me, personally.
Completely agree!
See it’s not the worst poem I’ve ever read, but it is, as you’ve pointed out, simplistic. Grieving lost youth is not a novel theme but the harsh reminder of looking at a youthful person is a nice addition. That being said, very little of the poem was actually expressive. Most of it was uncommunicative and almost arbitrary.
One brief perspective on "youth-laden," I think could be a reference to the way younger actors are taken less seriously by producers, directors, and audiences; youth and the appearance of it can become a burden for someone who wants to inhabit something deeper than a silly cartoon. Divorced from the context, that same ageism is alive and well across industries where young professionals are given short shrift, while older people are given deference simply by their age. We often hear ageism discussed as something to the detriment of the very old, those nearing what is typically considered retirement age, and it's often misapplied when we talk about, for example, doddering politicians holding office well into their inevitable, sharp decline. It's rare to have that ageism shown as cutting in the other direction, which is itself a manifestation of ageism; We don't typically think of youth as a disadvantage, when it very often can be.
So I dunno, maybe there's something there? I don't necessarily think the author intended it, but everyone gets the benefit of the doubt for stumbling into good ideas.
I actually love that haiku. Here's my junior analysis based on two minutes of consideration.
"Lie down in the light" - the "light" is a clear allusion to the spotlight, the theatre stage, the film set. When you're in the light, you're on camera. To "lie down" in the light might suggest that it's relaxing, that it's home; the light is where he belongs. However, lying down is something that, depending on the circumstances, is very exposing. When you lie down, your guard is down, you're defenseless. And there's the connotation of "lie down" as relating to sex; to lie down is to be naked, to be made vulnerable. In the light, you often have to be vulnerable.
"As fictional characters" - in the context of acting and filmmaking, the fictional characters are clearly the other actors playing roles that you have to interface with as you act out the story. There are expectations to be met by the script and interior world.
But taken with the next line - "watch you from afar" - the "fictional characters" are probably the audience members, the people behind the light, the people you lie down in front of. The audience are real people, but they're so detached from you that they may as well be fictional. You don't know their names, and most often you can't even see their faces - real, and yet not. Their gaze, penetrating from on high, is almost another source of light.
So, in full: acting demands complete vulnerability from an actor, and by necessity, there will be an audience to see you in that state, but the audience doesn't have to be vulnerable for you. It's not shared; it's a one-way avenue. And that's a perilous, frightening thought, to be all alone in the light.
That was a really thoughtful analysis, I love this community
@@AyyJayAgainthank you 😊
@@AyyJayAgainwhoops I replied with the wrong account 😂
I actually found “youth-laden” to be quite effective in communicating both the facial features and some more holistic aspect of Josh Brolin’s view on Timothee. The weight of the eyes contrasting with the way the “cheekbones jump” paints a picture of deep, wide, sullen eyes, but still holding enough “youth” to be piercing and smooth. This especially works with the juxtaposition of “adolescence” and “etched” given the opposite implications of smooth, soft charisma and sharp lines, carved out of pristine rock, oozing with mature masculinity. On top of that, I think the addition of some kind of heaviness is an indication of how Brolin views this youth as something confounding not just in the way it inevitably fades in time, but also in the inherent beauty it holds in the first place. I think, overall, the poem sought to communicate a yearning that Brolin himself couldn’t quite place.
Josh Brolin's bi awakening was not on my bingo card for 2024, but I'm here for it.
P.S. The repetition of the word "something," culminating with it having a line all to itself, suggests to me that the narrator is pointedly avoiding saying what that something actually is. He's afraid to tell us. He's afraid to tell himself.
I think the abruptness and awkwardness of the poem actually serves the (accidental/purposeful?) homoeroticism. The cliches and stilted awkwardness in the last stanza make it feel more genuine. I kinda like it!
Think the poem itself could use another draft but admittedly, it was a neat insight, this juxtaposition of an older actor to his younger contemporary. I hadn’t heard about the poem but I really liked your video breaking the whole thing down!
My attempt at a revised version:
Your face is impressed by
juvenescence.
Your cheekbones jump toward
young eyes
unburdened
that slide down
to a nose and onto lips
pursed upward.
When my eyes roll up to you
and my gaze is devoured by yours
I can feel my added years
weighing you down.
Something within me says,
"he's going to offer me a way out."
But I'm not sure
that I even want that
anymore.
I honestly love this video. What a nuanced take on this poem. I also love the mention of Chinua Achebe’s “Things Fall Apart”-I thought of it the moment you named the theme! What an amazing read.
It’s funny, too, that TS Eliot is one of my favorite poets of all time, but Love Song just never spoke to me. In a weird way, this video was almost therapeutic for an English major who always felt very out of place, haha. So thanks for sharing this
My first thought when reading it went to Death in Venice by Thomas Mann with the older author becoming obsessed with the young Tadzio to much creepier lengths than Brolin's poem. But it develops that thought into ideas of a loss of dignity that comes with age, the attempts to preserve youth, the nature of creating beautiful art internally vs living beautifully externally, and a lot more.
I guess what I'm saying is it would have made the poem much more interesting if he elaborated on what the "offer" was, a look back on himself as a young actor?
I was just thinking that it’s been a while since you last posted. I’m delighted.
Something about the last section and the line breaking gives it some sense of self realization, that even the poem knows its droning on about something that people may not find interesting. From someone that definitely doesn’t write poetry(yet) and doesn’t read much poetry, it gave a very real feeling to me that this may not have had a need to be written, but he did anyway.
I find it silly to formally critique something created by a nonpoet in a nonprofessional manner. All of us are pulled to create some sort of art sometime in our lives, it’s a pretty innate way of expressing ourselves, but not all art merits formal critique. What the general audience coming across this gets from it and what a poetry critic gets from it is like the difference between what a food critic and an average Joe gets from eating greasy fast food; it just wasn’t intended for “refined tastes”, but at the end of the day nonprofessional art has 0 requirement to be elevated to hit right.
I agree with you!! I thought it was bad, but I was sooo amused by how vulnerable and weirdly suggestive it was, so you could say Im a big fan 😂
14:50 I absolutely love this alternative. It hits the reader with the weight the speaker must feel. It sounds as heavy as his troubles.
i hate poetry
that is just prose
broken up into lines.
there's no artistry in it,
and no rhythm.
Honestly, though, here's the thing: Poetry is an art everyone wants to write and no one wants to read. That's why so many poets are bad, and the hoi polloi can't tell the difference.
before i even got to the end of the video i was thinking, this feels similar to megan fox simply in the sense that Brolin could write a little better poetry if he just studied it a little more or had a thesaurus or something. great analysis and insights!
Disclaimer that I am a prose writer, not a poet. I love words as a tool of expression but I use and think about them differently than a poet would.
I actually quite liked both "etched" and "laden" as descriptors. They hint at a deeper meaning behind the descriptions of the subject's youth. "Lines etched into her face" is a standard-to-the-point-of-cliche way of describing a person who is older or has been prematurely aged through stress or weariness. (Or maybe it's just a phrase I like too much...) "Laden" similarly evokes a burden that, when paired with "youth", makes what we culturally - especially in a place like Hollywood - see as an advantage into a hindrance. It's almost like the poem is in dialog with the speaker - the speaker is lamenting their age in contrast to the subject's youth, and the poem is responding that youth is not free from problems.
"Laden" also implies a weight, which transitions neatly into the eyes sliding down in the second half of the line, and I would guess that's probably closer to why Brolin chose that particular word.
The poem definitely could do with polishing, and I absolutely agree that it reads like Chalomet is about to offer to use those lips on Brolin back in the trailer, but I enjoyed the journey I went on thinking about it.
I find the poem creepy. This old person who "just can help himself" bc the young person is just so attractive. Furthermore, it suggests beauty and youth itself is a proposal. Personally, it reminds me of a creep who harassed all the women of a team. When someone clarified that one particular girl was giving him ZERO hints, he responded "her body is a provocation" wtf, she can change her clothes and demeanor but how does she change her body? I just hate this poem.
To me, it sounds like a poetic description of one particular interaction between the two. It doesn't mean much, it's just something he did. No need to bash on him
the whole bit about "youth-laden" is really funny bc I think in a different setting it could be interesting, but here it kinda just serves to highlight how shallow this whole deal is
Brolin is very direct in his poem and that in itself adds a layer that has less to do with the poem but the poet. I think it's sort of beautiful how he words it's as if a confession after long nights of restlessness and burdensome regret.
That aside, your video seems a bit vengeful, why beat on Brolin? Granted, he's not a great poet, but he has something to say and he doesn't know how best to say it so he does. Let him. He's speaking, so let him.
I really like your poetry analysis! Your Megan Fox video was A++. Very thoughtful and not in the least bit sexist. However, I have to disagree with you on one point here. "And the way you hold my gaze / makes me fear my own age" is actually a killer line, and your rewrite is awkward and cluttered: "When your gaze devours mine / It tastes my added years of anxiousness at the back of my throat."
A poem to me has to really say something insightful and tell a story to be good in my opinion. It’s mostly just funny to me that Brolin is sitting around a movie set writing poetry
Travesty doesn’t mean tragedy, right? I always hear people use the words almost interchangeably but I think it’s just a common mistake. (Reacting to your use of the word in the section about the Tay Bridge)
Whoops! You’re absolutely right. Haha, I’m honestly embarrassed. But thanks so much for bringing that to my attention!
@@RoughestDrafts No need to be embarrassed! I love your videos :)
"Adolescence?" More like "a dull essence."
'For the stronger we our houses do build,
the less chance we have of being killed.'
That's right there some Vogon level poetry.
I left a trail of abandoned fantasy series in my wake on my journey to my first book. It’s a western, it’s pretty good
the video ends at 2:43 - 2:50
0:08 how much higher on one's own farts can one even be?
I really love your videos, but I did want to bring up something that bumped me a little. While I'm not a person that has an intense want (or the many skills required) to evaluate an art-piece based on the technical aspects of the craft, I appreciate and am entertained by those that do, like yourself! With that said, I don't understand the want to rewrite a piece in your own language and present it as evidence of something better. I understand the idea that some words may be more entertaining, but that's completely subjective, right? A piece of writing or art can't be made "better" post-completion. It's as good or as bad as it ever can be once the artist completes the work. To me, someone putting something new that they like on a piece of someone else's art and asking "isn't it better this way" felt kinda gross and made me cringe a bit. Didn't sour me on you by any means, but I was curious as to how you might justify it. Thanks for what you do!
have you ever seen a movie or read a book and thought the story or a shot might've been better if it hapoened differently? maybe it would've had a more consistent theme with a different ending? it's a very natural impulse imo. that said, it made me cringe too, but i think it's just because poetry is very easy to deride
Just because it's basic doesn't make it bad
Bad art has as much right to exist as good art.
Eyes sliding down a nose and onto lips is one of those analogies you really need to test against a literal interpretation. It accidentally implies Chalamet’s eyeballs are falling out!
Obviously that’s not what’s meant, but you need to proof your phrasing against that kind of thing.
he's got the cutest college dudebro voice
I liked the poem…
And that’s totally fine! My opinion is not the be-all and end-all. I’m glad you enjoyed it
Me too 😔
Loving this channel
It doesn't have to be anything.
It’s best than Rupi Kaur
Roughest drafts, do you happen to be a fan of the Well Theres your problem podcast? They did an episode on the tay bridge disaster and mentioned the poem
your submission link thing isn't working, also I'm curious to know what this poem is actually about because what..
Sorry! Try the link again now
@@RoughestDrafts | no worries thanks
Could you re-record these words
in the manner and voice
of Orson Welles?
I was given the advice by some people to simple down my poetry, like i was telling it to a friend. But from your video i might think simplfying something might be bad…not sure if im correct ?
I think its misguided to try and price poetry books based on how skillfully their poems are written. Most things aren’t priced using quality as a metric. Why should this* be?
I’ve heard you express this opinion in earlier videos. Why is this something you believe? You’ve said the buyer would likely be disappointed by the poetry inside, but why would they buy it without reading even one poem? Couldn’t they just open the book before buying?
*Edit: “this” used to say “they”. Mistyped.
Your paraphrase is a better poem...
I think he should have used pubescence
As much as it's not to my taste, elevating the amateurish poetry of an amateur poet for critique - solely because they're a big name elsewhere - feels like a cataclysmic waste of effort. I'll give you this though, it is timely.
As a suggestion, why not offer to critique viewer submissions in a less glib way?
they have a second channel where they analyze viewer submissions