The worst Mopar platform: Chrysler's failed attempt to downsize
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 3 июн 2024
- Chrysler's R-Body while attractive in today's world, was a complete failure to compete with the Ford LTD/Marquis and GM's downsized B-Body with the introduction of the Caprice in 77'. Chrysler did not have the funds to create an entirely new platform so they used the B-Body's architecture and came out with the R-Body. On this platform, we have the St. Regis (Dodge), New Yorker and Newport (Chrysler), and Gran Fury (Plymouth). With its introduction, they did very well; however, over the course of the next 2 years, sales would drastically decline. The R-Body was one of the worst-selling platforms to come out of Detroit.
CHAPTERS:
0:00 -Intro
0:20 -The 70's
2:12 -R-Body
2:59 -New Yorker
3:20 -St. Regis
4:24 -New Port
4:44 -Gran Fury
5:37 -Engines
7:01 -Police
7:22 -Sales Numbers
7:48 -The Competition
8:39 -New Chrysler
9:15 -My Thoughts
9:51 -Tier List
10:41 -Outro 
Авто/Мото
A shame, really. The R body was a darn nice car.
I totally agree.
Nice looking cars…
@@robertmoore2049 Based on one of the better 1960" chassis. Only the Corvette of 1963 and the Corvair of 1965 were better.
It should have been, but the early examples were horrible quality-wise, and all three, the Chrysler, the Dodge, and the Plymouth, were identical, except for standard engines, and, of course, the price.
@@stephendavidbailey2743 It was indeed, but the build quality was just so bad. Many people refused to by a Chrysler product after experiencing these.
I actually got to drive one of the variations of this car, the Dodge St. Regis for about an hour in 1982- I had to pick up my friends Mother from her workplace downtown in a rainstorm and her father had been called into work unexpectedly. It was only a year old, but the car to me seemed to be VERY luxurious for a young man!!! AND I got a home-made Italian dinner for rescuing Mama! They are all departed now, R.I.P....
I had an '81 Fury, and I LOVED that car.
Before I bought her, she had been an "unmarked" police car...although everybody knew it was a police car. (I guess the spotlight and the giant whip antenna on the quarter panel were giveaways.) My car had the 318, but it was the police interceptor version, with a Carter Thermo-Quad instead of the 2 barrel. I got 10 mpg around town, and 14 mpg on the highway. Because she was a cop car, she had the certified 125-mph speedo, which I pegged on a few occasions.
The only person that loved that car more than me, was my Dad, who WAS a cop. He LOVED Plymouth Furies, as that was the usual patrol car for the NYPD.
The car's been gone for 30 years, and Dad's been gone 11. I hope that the Good Lord is letting him tool around Heaven in my Fury.
Awesome memory. God bless your dad.
She and her ??? Ahah hahaha😂😂😂 it's a machine
@@rja3226 Yeah...I'm a superstitious old sailor, and I still refer to my cars and bikes as women.
I absolutely love the style of these cars, especially the New Yorker.
Back in the early 90's I knew a woman who had an R body New Yorker. Her husband had been given an R body Newport as a company car in 79. After a particularly long road trip in it he was so happy with it that he returned home and announced that he was going to buy one for himself. He ended up buying that R body New Yorker, red/red, loaded. He drove it until he passed away. The woman I met was his widow and she loved that car. She drove it everywhere. I recorded some music for her onto 8 track tape cartridges so that she could keep on listening to music in the origibal radio in that car. Bulletproof 318. The car was very luxurious and comfortable. Not to mention it just looked so much better than anything from Lincoln or Cadillac at the time.
Had a 80 Saint Regis, payed a 150 dollars for it in the early 90s. Ran like a top, had corduroy interior, very indestructible. But when it came to winter driving even with the best tires couldn't hold the road very well. It was the best 150 dollars I ever spent. Now it sits in somebody's backyard to this day. Funny it still looks good!
You have to put some sand bags in the trunk.
@@androidtexts6948 I did that and put about 10 cinder blocks. I put everything but Jimmy Hoffa body in there.
I'd love to find a st regis, but darn near impossible now
@@sandknobrestorations440 Stay on that internet search. One'll pop up when you least expect it.
Now buy it back...
I currently own a '79 New Yorker with the 5th Avenue package. "I" think they were the sharpest looking cars at the time, and even today, he's a handsome addition to my driveway. Some things haven't aged well. ALL New Yorker's have issues with the rear windows leaking because of the design, the electronic fuel system always has issues and the electric options occasionally decide to go on holiday for a day or two. But, it still rides like a cloud, looks sharp and the body and interior have held up exceptionally well over the years.
I agree!
if it rides like a cloud, you should tighten up your torsion bars and check your suspension because these R bodies are typical Chrysler products and designed to ride firm and handle well, not float.
Yessss! I had one, I was always asked what year Lincoln it was!
Great styling … Chrysler did a good job of presenting a downsized model to compete with GM and Ford !
My uncle had a 1979 St Regis and when it broke down, the poor response from Chrysler Canada cost them a repeat loyal customer.
Really too bad coz they were nice looking cars.
That too, was a big part of the problem. Chrysler's relationship with its dealer network went proverbially to hell in a hand basket in the late 1970s. It didn't help that the "Lean Burn", which Chrysler's engineers swore up and down worked great, didn't work out so well in practice. That was a huge part of hard and/or NO starting, poor drivability, and poor fuel economy. Dealer service departments didn't know how to troubleshoot their problem-ridden cars, often not having the special equipment needed to diagnose the newfangled engine module. That the engineers inexplicably chose to put it in an special housing in the AIR CLEANER, when those electronics would get "toasty warm", didn't help.
The Dodge St. Regis is, in my opinion, a superb looking car.
A time capsule of high-class 80's design: Immaculate, elegant and imposing. In white it looks stunning.
The R-boby was not forgettable.
*_It was just forgotten_* .
An absolute shame.
I have owned 4 of these cars. The current one is a 79 New Yorker. The 80 was the best year after they fixed the front window wind noise problem. These cars run and drive like a dream.
My first car was a 1980 Plymouth gran Fury with a 360 interceptor (AHB package) I loved that car. Guzzled gas. Chrome bumpers were peeling badly by the time I got it. Very pedestrian 0-60. But it rode well, was very reliable and actually really moved up to its top speed of 121 mph which was nothing to scoff at the time.
I had the 1983 Dodge diplomat. Former Memphis Tennessee patrol car. 318 four barrel. That car would go all the way to 125 mph that's where the speedometer ended.
Would pass anything on the road. Except a gas station. Couldn't imagine owning any of those cars with anything but the 360.
I have a 79 new yorker with the 360. Worst mopar platform, I can't say I agree with. Spend a weekend doing 2 things once you get an R body. Put in a modern HEI distributer or a points distributer, and remove the lean burn system and put in an edelbrock intake and carburetor. Dial in the tune, drive with a light right foot, and I get 20 mpg in suburban driving and the car is much more responsive and powerful than stock. I've owned mine going on almost 5 years now and driven 7000 miles. Only repairs I ever needed were all leaf spring related, first the mounting shackles the then springs themselves, which I got made at a leaf spring shop for $300 for the pair. Some may have been lemons, but not mine. Never had any electrical issues apart from the cruise control system not working. Other than that, car is mint. The car was a michigan car its whole life and has very little to no rust. Maybe mine is a good one, but from getting to know this car I would say the R body platform itself was not a bad platform at all.
There was a window of time in the 1980's when legacy engines could be back engineered to their pre-smog configuration. I had an '85 Olds 88 with the 307. Because of constant problems with the computer-controlled Q-Jet carb, I ended up taking ALL that smog stuff off and retrofitting a pre-computer Q-Jet and HEI distributor from a junked '75 Cutlass 350. It solved all the problems and made maintenance much much easier.
The last car I retro-engineered was my 1990 Ford Crown Vic. It never ran right and I retrofitted a basic 302 intake, Motorcraft 2bbl carb, and electronic Ford Duraspark ignition. Both cannibalized from a older Ford F-150. Car ran like a top and had no further problems.
I can buy that actually - the same was true with my 1978 Volare, which my parents bought in 1979 and eventually handed down to me. Everyone knocked Volares, but ours was actually quite reliable, but only once we got the new build issues addressed correctly. Our local Chrysler Plymouth dealer had gone out of business, and the local bank bought back all of the inventory (100 Chrysler Cordobas lol) - but they also had several Volares which was more in my parents' budget. The Mocha Tan couple with a custom two tone interior, white bucket seats and black dash.carpeting, MSRP'd for $6500, and my parents bought it for $3900. But when we got the car, it had significant paint rust and waterleak issues. Once we got the car to a Dodge dealer (who initially didn't want to service it?), and my Dad used his colorful expletives to the service manager to fix the car right, it was actually an awesome car, and lasted us about 20 years, with 250K miles put on it, and some minor rust. The Slant Six surprisingly never failed us. The only issue we ever had was some periodic issues with the carburetor.
Good stuff covered here!
My grandfather was diehard Chrysler fan and had a one of these New Yorker models in 1980. The quality was not good. His youngest son had a first gen Toyota Celica and the difference was astounding, but he didn't care and continued to buy a new Chrysler every 3 years.
I do wish you had included a bit more detail on the Ford and GM competitors including powertrains, body styles and sales figures.
Finally, you should emphasize more what a genius Iacocca was, taking a single simple platform, using it as the basis for 40+ models over the years and saving the company. In fact, that tale deserves its own video.
I guess back in 1981 could have gave the tooling for these cars to Chrysler of Brazil and Argentina
Iacocca hawked bic lighter cars. To this day no one cares about the K cars. The best Shelby 4 bangers were the L body that were there when Lee showed up.
@@joemiddleton9873 No country outside of the U.S. and Canada wanted a car anywhere near that big.
@@drippinglassPeople loved K-cars and couldn’t get enough of them. To this day, Chrysler’s various K-bodies were the best-selling cars in Chrysler history.
@@Sl1pstreamsyou said it
I remember Consumers Reports was doing a road test,comparing,the 79 Caprice,the 79 Gran Marquis,and the Dodge St Regis.The St Regis,had a bad start on the test,the engine destroyed it self swallowing an emission device,they bought another one to finish the test,the transmissions lock up converter malfunctioned,but they still finished the test, with body hardware failure and cruise control failure.The sad part,I think it was a good looking car.Consumers Reports were less than impressed,saying you would do well to look at the Caprice,the Gran Marquis,the St Regis if you were willing to take the gamble.
Dad had the ‘79 St. Regis with the 360. Grew up with it. First car I ever started as a kid. Sold it so daughter could have a car. Dad always wanted that car back.
I had a '79 Newport! While these may not have been "great", they were always NICE RIDES!
My grandfather had a St. Regis. It was a '79 purchased in NE Ohio in the fall of '79. The story I was told by him was Chrysler was on the ropes financially and his dealer buddy absolutely had to move all this iron. Gramps got an awesome deal. I was a child so I don't remember the exact price but it was crazy cheap like 6500 or 7000 bucks for a new car. My grandfather always bought Fords - Galixie's or LTD's from my Uncle who was a Ford salesman. The Regis was his first Chrysler product. The St. Regis was also a very nice car. It was rust colored ( great for Ohio) and it had A/C, ps, pb and am/fm, and Houndstooth cloth seats. The motor was the 360. He had that car up until his death in 2002. The R-body was a solid performer.
I take it that the St Regis was a very good car. Your grandfather had it for a long time, so not as bad as some people make out.
Cheers😊
I can tell you, WAY cheaper than that. I Had just bought a 1978 Renault LeCar to drive to College and was working at a Dodge Dealer. only a few months after buying my R5 for 4200 dollars, we had a 6 cylinder St Regis on the show room floor with a price of 4999.00. The dealer was selling it below cost and there was a factory rebate too in the price. They couldn't move these cars, they were such a sales flop. They were literally selling them at a loss.
@@OsbornTramain Yes you are right - Totally forgot about the rebate. He got one and it dropped the price even more. I forgot to mention the reason the car survived to 2002 was because in 1990 my Grandfather drove it to his winter home in St. Petersburg FL and left it there to get him around town while wintering in FL.. My grandma was impressed by the bells and chimes that went off when the car was started. It didn't have any buzzers like the '70's cars and it was the modern sound for the '80's. Early on my Grandpa had the car fitted with spiked radials in the winter to handle the Ohio snow. I heard those things tore up the road pretty good but you didn't get stuck.
It was a mistake to discontinue those cars so early . If they kept improving the quality the way they did with m cars they could be successful as full size sales picked up again in the mid 80s
I wonder if they had the capacity once the switchover to FWD happened. The M body was already being farmed out to AMC in Kenosha even before the buyout.
I agree 100%.
They ran out of money. The early ones were horrible, so bad that soon nobody would buy a Chrysler product. Shades of 57, but even worse.
With '57 they were actually more advanced than the competition, but at the cost of build quality due to being rushed. These were actually a rework of the ancient B platform, so had nothing to offer except (IMO) nice styling.@@michaelbenardo5695
They couldn't sell enough to justify keeping them around.
Tragic that the best-looking alternative in the full-size market sold by far the worst. If Chrysler had the vision to release this platform a few years earlier they would have yet another smash hit in addition to the ones that they had later on in the 80s
I had an '81 Dodge St. Regis, it was an excellent dependable family vehicle.
I was never a fan of the look of the '79 Newport... but I really loved (and still love) the styling of the New Yorker and St. Regis. Some really stylish full size cars today - particularly the New Yorker. Design aside, these cars had horrendous quality issues at the time - and beyond the 1979 Oil Crisis, I think the poor (big time) quality issues are predominantly why customers strayed away in 1980 and '81. The car came standard with a 225 Slant Six, which while reliable, was anemic in power for my '78 Volare at the time. I can't imagine how poorly the Slant Six performed in these R Bodies.
it wasn't so much that customers stayed away, they weren't given a chance to see the car, the Dealers and Salesman hated them and didn't want to show them due to the poor quality issues, plus it was 1979 and the second gas crisis was in full bloom so larger cars were instantly out of favor. Aspens, Volare, Diplomats and LeBarons were very easy sells compared to this car. The salesmen wanted commissions and it was way easier to sell a different mopar product. GM was selling their midsized cars with the V6, so our dealer thinking that the St Regis would do as well, ordered many of the initial cars with the 225 Super Six engine. They were way underpowered. We couldn't move the 6 cylinder cars at all and were selling them at below cost. It was a disaster....they were slow too. I don't think we had any 6 cylinder cars after 79, everything was 318 or 360.
@@OsbornTramain Great history and insight! Our local Chrysler-Plymouth dealer went out of business in late 1978 and the local bank took over the inventory. A newly created city parking garage was suddenly filled with the former dealership’s inventory… to your point, there were only 1-2 New Yorkers, no high trim Fifth Avenues or Newports… but funny enough … given the oil crisis, about 100+ Cordobas LOL. And about a dozen Volares and LeBarons.
As a young mechanic starting out in the late '70's these cars were TOILETS! That lean-burn system was terrible. They mounted the engine control computer over the exhaust manifold and attached it to the air cleaner housing. (Vibration and heat; two enemies of electronics. IIRC the Police units had the computer inside the car away from the heat and vibration. I guess someone got a clue.) Those bumpers were aluminum with chrome plating, which peeled off. One of my personal favorites was the fiber pistons inside the brake calipers. They would swell and lock up and would need to be replaced with metal pistons. Chrysler also used those pistons on their concurrent pickup trucks, IIRC. Then there were the K-cars. You had your choice of the 2.2 corporate engine or the 2.6 liter Mitsubishi "silent shaft" hemi 4 cylinder. They used this platform under the minivans. When used in that application those little engines had to pull 3,000 lbs PLUS a load. I had a good customer that had one and he complained about having to "finance" the repair work. I just told him to think of all that gas he saved and all that traction he got in the snow especially with all that power he didn't have for towing. He traded that for a Mercury Colony Park station wagon and drove that for the next 8 years. GREAT VIDEO!
Good ‘ole Sparky. One of the first flops we learned about in mechanic school.
Thanks for sharing this man!
What in the heck does "IIRC" mean?
@@michaelbenardo5695 IIRC = If I'm Remembering Correctly
A relative had a light blue 1981 Gran Fury with the lean burn 318 that was our family's introduction to how the Lemon Law actually works and after 11 trips back to the Dealership in 6 months, the Dealership reluctantly bought it back
What problems did the car have?
@@moparmadman1134
It wouldn't start and if it did it would run for about a minute then die and not start again.
Honestly that whole fuel system on that car was cursed
Pollution regulations hurt the performance of the police versions toward the end of their run. In 1980, California regulators refused to give a waiver for the 360 engine in the St. Regis the CHP was buying, so it came with the 318. The 318 was a rugged engine, but in this size car and tailored to meet regulations, the performance was considered unsuitable for the CHP. I still remember Paul Harvey describing the cars - "couldn't catch a fat boy on a bicycle." I'm pretty sure in 1981, the 318 was the only V-8 available for the R body cars nationwide. The lackluster performance of sedans in the early 1980s led the CHP and other highway patrol agencies to turn to Mustangs and Camaros for traffic enforcement.
Great job on this video! You obviously put some time and effort with your enthusiasm for these quirky cars. I'm a 70's child and I remember these vehicles like it was yesterday. They were quirky and strange back then--which makes them even more interesting now. The dashboard became a bit of a corporate design that appeared in a number of their cars. My Mom purchased a brand new '81 Dodge Mirada CMX, which featured that dash and those 10-spoke 'mag' wheels (as they were called then). Keep 'em coming, man!
I remember these cars, I'm 52. I never got to ride in one, but I can and could only imagine it rode well and was quiet. I was one of those kids who really liked the looks of the sedans of that time.
The R Bodies are considered very rare now, almost extinct, partly because many were used as police stunt cars in many 80's movies and TV shows, thus a majority of them were destroyed.
...and they rusted out in winter states within 10 years.
I haven’t seen much rust in these I think there galvanied
I had a 79 St Regis in the late 90s. It was ok, easy to work on and never left me stranded 🤷🏾♂️
Those Chrysler R bodies were styled beautifully and I think unless you actually owned one, you really don't know how good they really were ! They were underrated by you but the truth is anyone that never drove one of these cars shouldn't knock them. Like any person or thing, they weren't perfect but for the time when new, they were close especially if you compare them to today's cars for strength, style and price !
I worked at the dealer and prepped these cars and they were the worst in quality for 1979. Our Salesmen hated them and refused to show them to customers, steered the customers to the M body cars. That being said, I've always wanted one and owned one 15 years.......Great engine, Great Style, Great handling, but horrible quality, windows that leak, windshield wiper system that self destructs, window cranks made of aluminum that eat themselves up. Pull straps that pull off, glove box doors that break, Ash Trays in the rear doors that fly of every time you slam a door!. Plastic chrome inserts in the door recess that crack and break with pressure....so many things, but I do love them and I did own one so I can speak with authority, my brother owned two as well.
Always felt that Dodge had the best styling out of the Big 3, but the worst reliability. My family and I owned a handful of Dodge cars from 70’s - 90’s and always had issues. But we’d buy another Dodge again bc they looked good! 😅
Also, from Archer: “Those Corinths sure know their leather! Thanks Dodge!”
That’s never really changed either. Chrysler still makes very visually appealing cars but they still are by far the most unreliable, for whatever reason Chrysler just has never been able to figure out consistent quality control and they’re still the weakest of the three. I own my own automotive repair shop and between Chryslers and Nissan (which has gone from being mentioned in the same breath as Honda and Toyota to japans Chrysler) I could work almost nothing else and still do very well.
Personally I think their best bet to survive in the future is to go electric hard as long as they can find someone (or figure out for themselves) to make quality battery cells you have to make it a mission to make an unreliable electric and like it or not that’s the future if they pull their usual crap of failing to see what’s coming and missing the boat until it’s too late they’ll be done for good this time as everyone else transitions. The legacy automakers are already in the hole as it is on electrics frantically playing catchup as it’s not something that can happen overnight, for once being the smaller automaker can work in their favor they would have the easier time retooling of the big three.
They make trucks beat n hellcats stfu. Jeeps top grand wagoneer top. Newport lebaoron. Jus fix the coil n ign. Smog laws..
I had an afterschool / Summer job at a Dodge Dealer 1976 through 1980. These cars looked nice, but pretty much everything Chrysler made in those days was garbage, quality wise. I got the job as my Dad was the lead mechaninc in the Service area. In 1978 my first car (a FIAT 850 Spider, but that is another story) died and I was going far away from home for college so my parents decided I needed a NEW car. The only new car for sale at the Dealership where we worked that my Dad was willing to buy was a Dodge Colt, which was made by Mitsubishi. He said anything else Chrysler made at the time was a P.O.S.!
I agree they were great looking, especially the 5th Avenue, but as has been stated here, the quality was not good, especially the lean burn system. The other issue that really put Chrysler in bad straights was the dealership experience. Before I knew about the lean burn disaster, I went to a local Dodge dealer to buy a 1980 Mirada. They wouldn't even let me test drive it! They said I could drive an Aspen, to which I replied that I wanted to purchase the Mirada. After that experience, I went to Ford and bought a Silver Anniversary Thunderbird. I know those are underappreciated, but I actually liked the angular styling, and it was luxurious and reliable, based on the Fox body platform.
That Thunderbird is beautiful too
I had a Grand Fury for a few years after it was cast aside by Pennsylvania State Police. 363, dual exhaust, posi-traction. Throw your empties on the floor (there's no carpet). Big dome light above for writing tickets. Giant sway bars kept it level in hard turns. It was a lot of fun! Hollywood-worthy sound when you'd punch it. Killer donut machine in snowy parking lots.
Really a refreshing new big car at the time.
In my opinion, they looked way better than the downsized Ford & Chevy alternatives.
We have an 1980 Gran Fury in the family still today with the slant six. It's a nice driving old car, gutless but thats what the 340 Swinger is for.
Agree with you, they look awesome through the rose-tinted nostalgia glasses. I love the Mad Max interceptor style headlights on some of them. But man those engine output numbers... lol
Great show ! I remember these back in the day, my parents were about to buy a 81 Dodge St.Regis but instead bought a 1980 Oldsmobile Delta 88 sedan . The R bodies didn't seem to have a good reputation compared the Ford and GM full-sized cars .
The full-size GM cars of that era were of better quality... except their factory metallic paints were terrible as were the upholstery and trim pieces.
Most were fine. Dist n ignition coil
Chyserl more unique now rare 120k units
I take it that 1980 Olds wasn't a DIESEL. GM has it's own "misfires", but was in better financial shape to endure them.
I had the Newport in the same exact color scheme, I bought it used in 1989. It was only ten years old and was already falling apart. Transmission gave out after 3 months. I junked it for $60 (paid $200 for it at a dealer). The AC compressor pulley came off the first week I owned it. Had the 135hp 318.
I grew up with a Dodge dealers daughter in Langhorne, PA and rode to school in many a Mopar demo in 1979, '80 and '81. Her older brother managed the dealership and would order up beautiful loaded Dodge Diplomats, St. Regis and Magnums for us to drive but with an interesting twist. He'd code out the loaded fancy land cruisers with the A38 Police Interceptor Package to give us rambunctious teenagers a little extra boost for the drive to school. The 5.9 liter 360 CI motor was anemic at 195 bhp compared to the U Code 7.2 liter 440 CI power plant with 275 bhp of the Dodge Monacos that preceeded it. A bad era for American cars but I have nothing but fond memories of the fun times we had doing smokey holeshots out front of our high school and racing the Auto Shop Tech Kids with their Baracudas, Mustangs & Camaros in Grandma's poofed out luxury sleeper. Definitely Fun and Fast Times At Ridgemont High.
The Monacos like the ones in "The Blues Brothers" had 275 hp?!?!? 😲Trivia: That 1974 Monaco Was Actually going 118 m.p.h. under the Wells street "El"evated tracks. The producers requested & received "special permission" from City Hall. Those were stunt people on the sidewalks. I hope those were stunt men driving.😎
I would have loved 195hp from my late 70’s Pontiac! I had the 301, no turbo, with maybe 120hp when new? (and more like 70hp when I got it?). I remember test driving an ‘87 Civic Si hatchback, and was shocked how fast it was compared to my Pontiac. 🤦♂️
@@landonbenford8369 The last year of high compression V8s was 1970... A muscle car 440 or police special was rated at 375 SAE gross HP. Compression ratios were down in 1971 so all engines could use regular gas. In 1972 Compression ratios went down further (to ~8.2:1) and the entire industry switched to SAE net HP ratings. A single exhaust 440 was rated at 235 HP net, with duals (e.g. police special) the ratiing was around 275 or 280. Once the cat converters arrived for 1975, dual exhaust was history.
I miss the big boats. My dad had a 70 dodge monaco. awesome power and ride. I remember chrysler on the brink of bankruptcy, I read Iaccoca's book, Its no wonder they almost went under. Their quality also sucked, all the big 3 cars did. He certainly knew how to market himself and the cars. K cars were awesome and solid. 1 billion dollar loan from the US government. thats when a billion dollars was alot of money. Canada gave them a 400k loan. and it worked. Still miss the big boats. sweet rides.
My dad also had a '70 Monaco - I really liked the backend/taillights on these and thought those slotted backup lights were cool as hell !
I had a 79 Newport with the E-58, 195 H.P. 360 purchased from the Florida Highway Patrol in 1981. A 2.71 final drive ratio allowed the car a top speed of a little north of 120 MPH, and it would even lay rubber if you stomped it from a dead stop. Considering all that was being offered by the mfgrs. at the time, it was pretty impressive. And being the crazy young age of around 19-20 years old at the time, I couldn't tear it up. But I tried... and tried... and tried.
Haha!!
I have '79 St. Regis with 280,000 miles on it. My dad bought it from the original owner, and I bought it from my dad almost 30 years ago. Until I needed a new K-frame for it last year, it was pretty much my daily driver for most of those years. It has a 318 that has almost 200k on my dad's rebuild of it in the 80's. My dad added a '77 Cordoba rear sway bar on the St. Regis and it is a very fun car to toss around on twisty roads. What I wished had happened with the R body cars is that they were kept on and refined the way Ford and GM did their full size cars. R bodies get the same mileage as the M's. When people thought Chrysler was going to do away with all of the rear wheel drive cars, they started snapping them up and the increased sales extended the life span of the M bodies all the way up to 1989.
My dad company leased Chryslers for all their salesmen and my dad got to order a 1980 St. Regis for his company car. Because my dad was more of a GM man, he ordered all his Mopars with 360's for the simple reason they were 10 cubic inches bigger than a comparable GM 350 (Call it "Spinal Tap Logic"!). He would let me drive the St. Regis on the sly - only wives could drive the company cars but not us kids! I have fond memories of that St Regis (except for the time the Lean Burn system gave out and left us stranded) even though it was a freighter of car to drive. My dad's lease cars made a Mopar man out of me even though I drove a very used '79 Caprice into the ground! GM's and Chrysler's for me, Ford's not so much!
Looked at a number of new vehicles in December of 1978 to replace my 1976 Dodge Aspen wagon that was already having transmission problems, including all the full-sized GM products (Caprice, Bonneville, Delta 88, LeSabre, Cadillac Calais), the St. Regis and Newport, and the newly-downsized LTD and Marquis. The St. Regis wallowed in the corners, as did the Newport and the Cadillac Calais, and the Ford products had some quirky features (horn button on the turn signal lever, among other things) so my wife and I settled on a new Bonneville that, once they corrected all the manufacturing defects (of which there were many - it was assembled on Monday morning immediately after the Super Bowl), served us well for 153K miles.
Cadillac no longer made the Calais in 1978, the last year was 1976.
I remember downsizing. I thought that was the first sign we were living in the last days, lol.
The R body was really nice, despite Chrysler going through that rough patch in the late 70s early 80s. Had a unique style to it for the time. I liked the New Yorker model, and I remember the St. Regis from cop shows like Hill Street Blues back in that day.
I always loved the Chrysler Newport. My parents had a 79 Newport and it was a good car.
I think it deserves a higher rating. My dad owned a '79 Newport that was fully optioned with a 318 under the hood. I thought it drove & road beautifully. I don't recall him having any problems with it. I, myself, owned a lower trim Newport (no power windows, a little less luxurious), also a '79 with a 360 under the hood. I absolutely loved it. It took me from Detroit to Dallas to New York City. It drove like a dream (although my dads always handled better) and the only problems I ever had were of my own doing (mostly battery maintenance). I was sad to see the platform disappear and sure do wish I had stuck mine in a garage someplace.
I was a Rural Mail Carrier and used one for a couple of years for delivery. I thought it was one of the best cars I ever ran.
They are like an aged wine or bourbon: They become more appreciated as time passes
These were beautiful downsized automobiles. But to me, the following RWD Fifth Avenues were the best reworking of an existing platform. The plush velvet interior and formal design capped with limo looking roof made them a sales success! I had 83 and 85 Fifth Avenues. Easily held their own against FLEETWOODS and Town Cars I have owned. Iacocas switch of New Yorker, Fifth Avenue, and Imperial to FWD was for me a mistake. But today SUVS and crossovers rule the roads. What ever happened to CLASS?
Thanks to the ingenuity of the designers of the K-cars (it was Iacocca showing government reps the prototypes that convinced Carter to grant the Federal loan guarantee), a "gussied" up, stretched K-car with the Chrysler nameplate could be marketed, for those that wanted SMALL car luxury. For those that wanted "old school", the M-body Fifth Avenue had the "look and feel" that these usually "well-experienced" drivers wanted. Making them used few new parts (the platform, by its end, was 13 years old), and since there was a steady and PROFITABLE demand for Dodge Diplomat and Plymouth Gran Fury police and fleet vehicles, enough of itself to justify the platform, adding some "old fogey" rides to the platform just swelled the coffers.
The 1980 New Yorker Fifth Avenue in either the two-tone Cream or Mahagony was gorgeous inside and out. The wide white walls with the gold band and the wire wheel covers set the car off like a million bucks.
I was alive and well back then and remember when these cars were introduced. They were stylish and looked good against the competition. The problem was Chrysler quality, everyone was very skeptical about the quality and that is why the didn't sell well. I remember my dad was thinking about buying a St. Regis for his work commute car, we went to look at one and first off the dealership was terrible, the sales staff had no clue how to sell and seemed uninterested in selling a car. Secondly, when we finally were able to get inside of a car on on the lot, we found the interior quality cheap looking and car seemed to not be put together well. My dad went bought a GM. Thankfully because that lean burn engine was no good.
The engine was fine. Just take the lean burn crap off.
@@drippinglass Yes, the engine was fine - very good engine - the Lean burn was a disaster. I thought these cars were very good looking when they came out, especially the New Yorker with the 5th Ave. trim.
I had a 79 newport. it was the downsized version but it was still a big car. big car ride. it was a sweet car.
thought the 77 caprice was ugly and little, but by todays standards its big and beautiful
"Plymouth didn't have any full size cars." The Plymouth Volaré is rolling in it's grave😂
I daily drive a 1981 Gran Fury ex cop car, it's hands down the best car I've ever driven. It still has all the original running gear, 175k miles, my grandpa bought the car from the highway patrol in 1984 and it still runs and drives like new - I regularly take it on road trips and it's a magnificent highway cruiser. It has the E48 318 4 bbl heavy duty police engine, not a ton of power but it's practically invincible, along with the heavy duty A727 transmission and 9.25 rear end with a 2.94 gear, great for fuel economy on the road. It'll does about 18 mpg on the open road and 12 in town, which is great for a 42 year old V8. It has a ton of passenger space and the police suspension makes it handle extremely well. My dad used to drive a 79 New Yorker with a 360 in the 90s and he had nothing but praise for it also. These things were built to last and it's a shame most of them were scrapped because they didn't fit people's aesthetic.
I had a hand me down loaded 80 Newport with a 318 when I was a teen in 91 and I loved that car, wish I still had it. Interior was double stuffed red crushed velour. I put dodge rallies with 60s dual exhaust camshaft and 70s ignition and it actually was pretty cool. Crazy thinking I was givin an ol worn out 10 years old car! 10 year old! It still has lots of life but the paint had faded.
I worked as a mechanic at a Dodge dealer 1980-81. We serviced and worked on the police cars in our town which were these R-bodies. The police versions actually drove quite well.The 360-4 barrel had good power.
I had a 1979 Chrysler New Yorker with the 360 motor in it, I inherited it in 1988 when it had 79,000 miles on it, My parents had it since it was new and drove from Los Angeles to Las Vegas 8 times a year and to Oregon several times and never had any problems what so ever. I drove the car to Minnesota from Los Angeles in the middle of winter and it drove perfectly. I changed the oil, oil filter, plugs and plug wires and air filter and the engine ran like a watch, I drove it for several winters in Minnesota and it drove great in deep snow, The weight of the car and engine power seemed to be a great combination for maximum traction, braking and handling, I then moved to Arizona for a few years and the air condition worked perfect even when the car had 139,000 miles on it. I then moved back to Los Angeles and drove the car until it reached 179,000 miles on it and the only thing that went wrong was the overdrive transmission started to slip and eventually would not go into reverse, I could have had the transmission rebuilt and drove it for another 50,000 miles, but a friend wanted to trade me a 1981 Toyota Long Bed Pick up in 1994 because he wanted to motor for another Chrysler . The leather seats in the car were still in perfect shape as was the paint and everything else.
Great video of these forgotten cars, nicely styled vehicles, but Chrysler Corp had a ton of quality issues in the 70s-80s. I had a few county issued k-cars/omnis in the 80s and build/quality not much better, then got issued a brand new 1989 dodge full size truck, transmission lost its reverse function at 4000 miles, until fixed you just improvised not to ever park where you needed to reverse! But in South Florida that cold a/c made you think you were driving at the North pole, I swear had a slant 6 as well, engine probably running to this day. 😮 some things Chrysler did excellent, a/c, durability of some engines, but some things not so much. To give credit though any 80s diplomat/gran fury i drove, usually as a loaner from regular car maintenance or breakdown were actually very nice rides.
When I was in high school, my girlfriend's parents bought a brand new 1979 Chrysler New Yorker, I thought it was a great car at the time. It was a big car but looked so sleek and modern compared to the old body style. It was so smooth and quiet, a real pleasure to drive and ride in.
I think the 1979 Dodge Magnum could be considered the "coupe version" of the St Regis even though it was technically based on a modified B body.
I remember the later seasons of "T.J. Hooker" and seeing one of these cars in the opening credits. GREAT VIDEO!
I think they were pretty good. Looks wise, better than competition slightly. The GM Caprice was pretty good quality, we had one.
You are becoming my new favorite channel… i am obsessed with cars, car history… reviews thank you for your hard work..
I appreciate that!
The problems with these is that all three, the Plymouth, Dodge, and the Chrysler were identical, except for the price and standard engines. What really killed them though was the horrible quality. Mechanically, fine, but the interior was garbage - door pulls that broke off in weeks was just one of the problems. Later ones were better, but it took Chrysler too long to fix them. By the time they did, it was too late.
The r bodies are beautiful cars and definitely under rated. It's hard to find such affordable luxury in today's market new or used. They may have been under powered but they were certainly adequate for their intended purpose and I'm willing to bet they were a lot more comfortable to drive or ride in than any modern car
I learned to drive in a 79 Chrysler Newport when I was 11 yrs old. It was just around our cul-du-sac and belonged to my parents. I had to sit on a cushion to see over the dash. When my parents bought a new car, the Newport became mine when I was in HS back in 86-87. It was my first car and I loved it. I named her Christine (from the movie). It had over 200,000 on the clock when I got rid of it (new car). I still miss that car.
I like how you flash the trim levels back and forth on the car. That's really sick! Gives you a good idea the difference between the two. My dad purchased a 1981 Dodge Aries K car station wagon. Even for it being a station wagon that was a fun little old car to drive. It had the Mitsubishi 2.6 l hemi engine in it.
I worked at the Chrysler Tank plant back then & employees were given huge discounts to get the R-bodies off the dealer lots. In early '80 at the exec lease turn-in lot (Lynch Road) was loaded with them. Folks were buying loaded 5th avenues with under 6k miles for $5,000 & a St. Regis for under $3,300. They were good looking cars but the biggest problem was poor quality especially the public perception of a Chrysler bankruptcy. It got so bad that Iacocca went to the assembly plant in Detroit & handpicked a few cars for defects. After his evaluation he fired the plant manager & the quality manager.
Holy shi-
Who could blame him? Nobody in the auto industry has the balls to do that now.
Of everything I've seen here, I just can't believe that as of 10/29/23, Hal Linden is still alive. 4:33
I’ve got 2 R body’s, a 79 and an 81. I love both of them and would definitely buy a 3rd
I had a new 1975 Ford Elite and in 1977 living in Charlotte, NC I was feeling "rich" and thought I might like a bigger car and always loved the Chrysler products so I test drove a Dodge Royal Monaco. It was stunning but when I drove it from the dealers lot, at 50 mph it shook and wobbled and not one bold or nut was tighten and was gonna fall apart any second.....hugely disappointed! I never bothered to try the "R" body style in 1979!
Same car The Blues Brothers drove...except theirs literally fell apart near the end.
Everytime I look at one I'd imagine a crashed police car on an '80s tv show..
The Blue Brothers movie had the biggest smash up of R-body cop cars ever done.
@@BlackPill-pu4vi Maybe it was a hidden dig at Chrysler considering that movie was filmed in the Summer of '79. Right in the thick of the malaise.
The Chrysler R-body cars weren't bad; they just weren't too competitive. The M-body cars did a pretty good job of carrying the company through the 80s, along with the new front-wheel-drive cars, of course that's considering the M's were originally based on the compact car platform what the Dodge Aspen and Plymouth Volare' used, dating back to 1976.
My grandfather had a Chrysler product in the 1950's. It was so much trouble that my dad wouldn't even look at Chrysler products in the '70's or '80s. ME: I was a committed VW fan....Until I drove a friends Dodge Omni GLH turbo! That car was a pile of shit but it would outrun ANYTHING! It's top speed wasn't high but the way it accelerated was amazing. And it was ALL attitude; You gripped the wheel with both hands because the torque steer was borderline dangerous-
That GLH turbo was a CHRYSLER. ALL the design, twice the performance.....But a pile of crap in the end.
Delivered these cars new at a Canadian Plymouth stealership. People loved em'. Most were 360s and moved along quite well with the torque available. The NewYorker in dark colours, with it's wall to wall tail lights, hideaway headlights and wire hubcaps was very handsome in the day. Also exceptionally comfy and attractive tucked, velour seating. The top line R-body sized Fifth Avenues were beautifully luxurious, but cream colour carpets was a HUGE mistake. Yes, the cop car versions with the E58 version of the 360, were well liked by the cops but a lot of departments hung on to their 440 and 360 equipped 78' B-bodied Monacos into the 80s until they replaced them with the lighter M-bodies Diplomats, available with the 360 for 1980 only, then the 318 through 89'. Those sold very well.
I loved the ride those last North South torsion barred B-bodies gave on that long wheelbase and they handled quite well compared to the competition(cops thought so). Plenty quiet inside with the velour, tucked seats as I remember. Always wanted an R-body NewYorker in dark Nightwatch blue. Had to settle on the one year only 82' M-body NewYorker in red on red on red with a factory catless 318 Thermoquad 4bbl, which I still own, along with three other M-body Fifth Avenues. Very comfy cars. How do I know they're handsome? Because people swarm me at gas stations and parking lots to tell me.
Forgot to mention the R-body rear bumpers had a terrible problem of the chrome plating peeling off them. Not the fronts, just the rears and very quickly in Canada(still inside warrantee) with our heavy use of road salt. Also, as the years went on, as I looked at them used, the factory sunroof drain tubes would plug up, back up and leak and take out the interior roof liners and interior C-piller upholstery, courtesy mirrors and lighting something fierce. Didn't matter as I couldn't drive them due to the reduced headroom, as I'm tall in the torso. Those power moonroofs sure we're cool though
Those K cars were awful, but they sure saved the company from ruin. Then provided the platform for the invention of the American minivan.
Chrysler had no choice due to their financial deficits. Plus, the R-Body was still big vs GM's B-Body and Ford's Panther Platform. It was still a nice looking car with great engines.
2:18: That's a Valiant compact A-body, not a B-body. The Plymouth Belvedere (1962--) was the B- Body
3:07: Those "quarter windows" were called Opera Windows. Very popular back then.
5:56: Chrysler cars never had "floaty" suspensions--they were known for their stiffer than normal "Torsion-Aire" ride and better handling.
👍
Opera windows were oval shaped like on the 1980 Lincoln Continental.
My brother was an executive for Chrysler in the office of “volume and capacity management”. He’s passed away now.
His office was responsible for determining how many cars of each particular model to produce. And it was complicated because the assembly line needed components from various vendors. If you didn’t have enough of a particular part the assembly line stopped. And you couldn’t just stop and then easily restart the assembly line.
He once told me that Chrysler offered HUGE employee discounts on these R body cars, but even that wasn’t enough to move these cars. I think he said something like $6,000 for a loaded R body.
I also remember him telling me that when Chrysler’s financial condition was at its worst there were thousands of unsold and unwanted new cars parked as far as the eye could see.
When all the paved storage lots were filled they parked the unwanted cars on the grass.
He said the cars sat so long that tires sunk into the ground and tires went flat. And batteries went dead. And as the cars deteriorated that created another sort of problem. Not only were they unwanted cars, but then they became inoperable cars rotting away.
But the unsold cars weren’t bad cars. It’s just that the American public didn’t want them.
Wow, I really appreciate you saying all of this, and may your brother fly high 🕊️
@@GreenHawkDrive You are quite welcome.
40 years ago my brother used to come home to Pennsylvania to visit me and my parents. He always had his pick of “motor pool” cars. You name the car and most likely it was one he brought home.
My favorite was the black Dodge Daytona Turbo Z. Black leather, 5 speed. It had pizza wheels and tires nearly 1 foot wide. He brought it home on 3 or maybe 4 occasions!
He’d let me drive the hell out of any car he brought home.
Motor pool cars had a hard and short life. They were driven hard to see how they performed out in the real world and how well they held up. And then they were destroyed. They didn’t want these cars sold to the general public because they were essentially test vehicles.
Once my brother took me on a behind the scenes tour of Chrysler’s corporate center. I remember seeing one of the vintage turbine cars covered in a thick layer of dust and sitting on flat tires.
One time he brought home to Pennsylvania a new Dodge Caravan before the public even knew what a minivan was.
So many stories I could tell if only I had a better memory!
@@CH67guy1 Wow!!! These stories are incredible. I'm so thankful to have people like you speak about the past. 😆
Another perspective on the R bodies, one that was briefly touched upon- use as a police car. True enough, many police officers from that era loved them as they were well balanced. The 360 equipped ones had enough power for state and highway patrol agencies; not 440 good but good enough of the era. City and municipal agencies liked the 318 cars, decent mileage and enough power.
However, one agency absolutely hated them and it led to a interesting solution to a performance problem. The agency? The California Highway Patrol. For ‘78 they had the B body Monaco with the 440 Magnum. Even with emission control devices they were still fierce runners and were loved. For ‘79, they had the St. Regis with the 360 and they were considered acceptable. For ‘81, the CHP got a nasty surprise. Short of it, the 360 wasn’t certified for California use, so the best option was the 318 4 barrel with I think 155 hp?
From the get go, CHP officers hated these units, from their words; not enough power, couldn’t push a stalled car out of the way, couldn’t out accelerate a VW Beetle, only had a top speed of 105 MPH, couldn’t pace and intercept speeders and many times speeders got away before they even know they were being pursued. Even regular family cars could out accelerate the St. Regis.
The CHP tried to deal with cars, they replaced mufflers with straight pipes, fiddled with timing and carburetors and if a car required transmission service, the fleet mechanics added a shift kit for more aggressive shifts. Even turbocharging was considered but was dropped due to price, added complexity and reliability concerns. Also the CHP sold off a few cars to different agencies and put the cars on higher mileage beats to help them get to sell off mileage faster.
The solution found was drastic but showed how much sway the CHP had, they asked the big 3 for a specialized pursuit car; the CHP did try testing Camaro Z28’s in ‘79, they liked the idea but the Camaros had severe reliability problems as almost all the 350’s blew up, some more then once…. (Rumor was it was sabotage from the factor as these Camaros came down the line in black and white and were obviously police cars so the factory workers allegedly sabotaged these cars as a way of getting back at “the man”)
Ford in ‘82 took the CHP’s challenge and cooked up the ‘82 Mustang SSP, a police Mustang with a 5.0 HO, specialized police items and reinforcements in the body. The rest was history. The CHP loved it and thus was born the “Mustang that chases Porches for a living” was born.
You did an excellent video. I liked the footage and information. You are putting effort in your videos and it shows,. You do not bash brands. You present the facts with information. I think that is great New Yorker was the best looking followed by the St. Regis. You are correct about your comment about the headlights the St. Regis had along with the Magnum. You are correct they did not have rear drive sedans until the Chrysler 300 and Dodge Charger and Magnum wagon and Challenger. They just finished their run too. It is interesting how things turned out too. Thank you again.
I liked the styling of the R body, especially the New Yorker. I never had an opportunity to drive one, so I can’t speak to the lack of power or the problems of Lean Burn. The R bodies do have plenty of haters. The M body that followed couldn’t hide the fact that underneath its skin it was a Valiant or a Volaré.
I grew up in a Mopar family. I have to applaud Chrysler for the R body cars given their lack of funds to develop anything better. However my father skipped them, keeping his 1975 New Yorker until trading for a Dodge Dynasty years later. Most cars sucked during the malaise era but the GM and Ford models were the better offerings until the K cars. Although I hated driving a Caprice wagon for work and saw how worn and discolored a Buick Roadmaster interior became in just 5 years.
Interesting how auto model names used to be aspirational like Imperial, New Yorker, Ambassador, Grand Marquis, Town Car, etc. Now Even Cadillac uses combination of letters and numbers like XTS for its cars.
This channel deserves so many more subs. Keep it up your content is amazing it just needs to find it's audience
I appreciate that!
I am a diehard Chrysler fan. I always wanted an R-Body car. Over the course of six months. I purchased three: a low miles 79 Fifth Avenue, a 79 Newport and an 81 Gran Fury Police Package. After six months of ownership, I came to realization that they were the worst cars I had ever owned in my life: poor electronics, pealing chrome and cheap aluminum window regulators that would break in your hand. Floppy windows missing door framing. Ridiculous wind noise. I did limp one across the country from the west coast to Chicago.....barely made it. They ran well, when fuses were not blowing out.......but they were essentially just big piles of junk. All were rust-free and solid.....but parts just kept falling off.
My dad had a '79 Newport in which I learned to drive in 1981. I recall the plating flaking off the rear aluminum bumper, some poor paint adhesion on the rear wheel wells (the sheetmetal underneath was galvanized, so it thankfully did not rust), and the frameless door glass that pulled away from the seals on the highway. Nonetheless, it was a handsome and comfortable car, but some of the engineering and assembly was half-baked.
I still have a police package 1979 Chrysler Newport with the 360 engine. Great cars. They deserved to be more successful.
You're not wrong. I was a teenager when those cars came out and they were butt ugly and obviously warmed over old design. I was totally unimpressed and so was most everybody else.
A friend had a Newport and lived in a public housing project.
He quickly dumped it because the pushers and pimps thought it was a "Red Dog" squad car. It only took one time being shot atand he moved up to an early seventies Datsun pick-up and a trailer home in the exurbs.
Man….
Define irony. In Chicago the 1987-90 Caprices've become popular amongst The Brothers. I see quite a few rolling with 20+" rims.❤
The Minnesota State Highway Patrol used the St Regis in 1979...and kept one around as a show vehicle, specifically for events like the MN State Fair which showcases the history of the Highway Patrol. I've seen the car up close and it's kind of a throwback as there is no partition and it has cloth/brocade seating and is fairly well equipped.
Otherwise, I knew families who had them...and mostly they were a bit of a throwaway car. Interior trim items would break like door pulls and handles. and they would rattle over the smallest bumps....drivelines were pretty solid though. It seemed like by the start of the 1990s...they pretty much evaporated from the roadways...you never see them.
Good well done review. I would be interested to see a similar review of the Mopar M body
Great video man, i dont remember these cars back then so they had to be low numbers and forgetable
I remeber seeing a commercial advertising a slant six with a manual floor shifter in what i belive was a st regis model, but i only saw that commercial once!
Maybe I'm weird but I thought those cars were very attractive. And to this day I think the most beautiful car was the Cordoba
You’re out of your mind if you think the cordoba was the most beautiful car. That car, and virtually every other American car of the time was hideous
The R-body was a poor seller over three model years because it was a turkey... poor quality and lousy performance. Law enforcement hated them because they were too slow, did not have a high enough top speed, and the frameless door glass was not durable. The old style Dodge Coronet from 1978 still had a 440 V-8 and was almost as good as the 1969 Dodge Polara. Except for the 1960-1976 Valiant and Dart, the remainder of the cars built by Chrysler declined in quality after 1956 (though the full-size 1965 to 1968 models were decent).
I rode in an '80 Gran Fury in 1983 and thought it was pleasant and rode like the '77 Cordobas that we had in the family. The R body was based off of the B body which was a very good platform in my opinion.
Chrysler Australia did away with the slant six in 1970. It was replaced by a brand new design that quickly became known as "Australia's best six" and it was produced in a brand new purpose built factory. The plan was for Chrysler Australia to export this engine to the US, gaining export credits and justifying the cost of the investment in the new plant. This would also have been the end of the road for the slant six in the US. Chrysler Corporation for what ever reason changed their mind which doomed the new plant to an unprofitable future through reduced volume. If that six had of been introduced, it would have run rings around the antiques used by GM and Ford. Just as it did here in Australia.
Look in any parking lot today - we are in a malaise period of SUVs, crossovers and pickup trucks. All just grocery getter - people movers.