pal2tech My man Chris! Went full Wayne Szalinski lab coat mode at the end of this clip hahah. Glad to see u back at it man!! A quality video, well done! My best ISO tip is more lighting lol. In all seriousness sometimes you can’t. Then maybe all we are left with is “fix it in post” kind of work arounds... which would make a great segway video by the wayyy ;). As a new photographer it’s been hard to find content in the pal2tech learning style that helps with the whole “post process”; stacking, mild composite edits in photoshop, cleaning up noise, these are all foreign to me right now. A problem/solution approach is so valued and you’re def good at delivering that.
I played around with single lens reflex cameras in my younger days, but am just learning how the new fangled digital cameras work. I ignore ISO with the idea that I can adjust brightness "post production." Meaning, if my computer image is dark, I can use the software to brighten it up and lose no picture quality. Am I right?
I never realized before that ISO is just like the input volume when recording audio. It doesn’t make the instrument play louder, it just amplifies the existing signal. 🤔 Thanks!
... for us old timers it was all about "film sensitivity" ASA number (usually varying between 50 and 400 ASA) and you chose your film according to the expected light conditions of your shooting setup. Sometimes you could try "pushing up" your ASA into extreme territories like 1600 or 3200 for extra dark conditions but the price to pay was obvious graininess (noise) and less contrast. There was not much wiggling room for post production corrections if you missed the right exposure mix!
Good point. I've usually thought about my digital ISO as ASA. It seems to be more like, but not completely related to push/pull. There is a healthy range of adjustable digital ISO that is natively comfortable for your camera and outside of that range it becomes the equivalent to push/pull film. OR is it that there is only one, the lowest ISO is the only true equal to a film ASA? That's where this is losing me a tiny bit.
You are the Bill Nye of photography! I grew up learning science from Bill Nye and he has such a fun, easy, yet technical way of teaching. Your videos feel the same way and I can always feel your enthusiasm for the craft which I love. Thank you for all of the knowledge bombs you continuously drop!
While everything you say here is technically correct, most of my students are only concerned with the camera's inputs and outputs. From their perspective, the "effective exposure (actual exposure + ISO)" IS the actual exposure. So, heuristically, there is a real advantage to treating ISO "as if" it were a third exposure variable. The exposure triangle is just too good a teaching tool to ignore, at least early on. Excellent video! Thanks.
Yes, I think the Exposure Triangle should always be used to explain this. I just wanted to dig a bit further under the hood in how it's affecting the sensor vs. aperture and SS.
This guy is a YT *star*, period. (The shaking of the ice cube thingy?? Getting all f* wet just to illustrate the concept?? I’m sorry, I’m not seeing ANYONE in YT going that far to explain anything…). Thank you, sir! BTW: I’ve been playing a bit more with my humble XT200 15-45mm, and your tips are definitely helping me learn more and more. Thanks again! Please keep up the good work!
It shouldn’t be called the “exposure triangle.” It should be called the image brightness triangle. Changing any of the corners has an effect on image brightness. You did a good job of explaining a very complicated subject. Personally I usually choose my shutter speed and aperture based on artistic choices and then set the overall image brightness with the ISO setting. Sometimes I do it manually and sometimes I let the camera choose one or more of the settings based on a range and strategy I have preselected.
When I will become as good teacher as you, this is how I will teach my students: ISO is not your friend! ISO is that compromise that once you optimized aperture and SS allows you to gain some brightness in trade with noise. This is how I have been seen the ISO for myself, as last tune once I could not get any more exposure through A and SS
I had no idea that ISO was simply post exposure electrical amplification. The analogy to digital zoom is a great shorthand way to understand the concept. Thank you.
Thank you!! Yeah, it took my several weeks to wrap my mind around it, but yeah, you are exactly right: post exposure electrical amplification for sure.
I think one example of this is when you use ISO bracketing on the X-T3. ISO bracketing gives you a single exposed picture with multiple copies of it with different ISO settings. This also tells you a bit about the internal architecture of the camera - that the ISO amplification is applied *after* the exposure to the sensor has happened.
I'm with you as far as calling it I. S. O. because of my film background... I'm not changing. This was good for me. I tend to keep my ISO low. As low as I can for the situation I'm in. I am a pure novice/hobby photographer. I'm in it for fun only... I've never been paid for a single picture, but I enjoy the process.
This is what I’ve been trying to find. I’m new to photography and have an XT4, I’ve really struggled with getting all the ‘pieces’ of the puzzle together and really over complicated it for myself as no-one has explained it like this. Thanks so much, love your videos, they’ve been my go too since purchasing my camera!
I think of it this way. "Exposure" is ambiguous. In one sense it means how much light is allowed to enter the camera and impact the sensor. In this sense of "exposure" ISO plays no role. But there is another sense of "exposure" which means something like the brightness (or darkness) of the image. Looking at an image we find too dark, we will say the image is under-exposed; and we're using "exposure" in the second sense. And in this second sense ISO has an impact on the brightness/darkness of the image.
Thanks for this video! You not only saved tons of my fotos, but also gave a good tip to save some old destroyed by electrical voltage. Greetings from Germany!
Just finished this awesome video it's good to see the information broken down in a usable way. I did one year of shooting where I set the iso at 400 and did not allow myself to move the iso. this one thing improved the quality of my photography by leaps and bounds. This method frees you to focus on composition lighting and motion capture. Liberating is the only way to describe it. I would recommend at least a few weeks of intensive shooting at a fixed iso it's a good look inward. Thank you again for this helpful bit of information.
On my XT 4 i assigned the ISO function to one of the command wheels. I simply find it easier to use since there is no need to have a look on the big ISO button and by doing so loose sight of your composure and exposure and shutterspeed. But aside from that i noticed another noticeable advantage. i now have access to a minimum ISO of 80 instead of 160. Strangely i do not hear anyone in RUclips about this. Just wanted to share this. BTW thank you for all your input. Im a new fuji user and your channel helped me so much to understand my XT4. GREETZ Cliff
This is a great explanation for why in certain situations I will, in a situation where available light cannot be managed (action nature shots, for instance), underexpose a photo with my digital cameras because I can push the exposure in [Lightroom] after the fact using its 'algorithms / amplification' bits and widgets rather than pushing the ISO in camera and using its 'algorithms / amplification' bits and widgets... doing it in post is sometimes preferable (again, to 'me') because I can control it very specifically and very precisely in post.
I have just ordered a new X-T3 and am really appreciating you clear informative videos. I am learning things I have never been clear about reading other camera manuals over the years which are far too extensive and hard to understand. Many thanks. I look forward to ever new and very enjoyable video.
Old photographer, long time to understand iso concept vs exposure. Today I understand : light plus camera settings matches what the sensor sensitivity requires
Just saw this - so important! I feel so much smarter now. Question for anyone: Suppose I am taking a picture in pretty dark conditions (such as described toward the end of the video). Could I shoot with ISO 160 instead of 6400 and just make an adjustment in post? In other words, are high ISOs in the camera really just time savers or are they doing more for me than just saving time in post? Another way of putting the question: Is the ISO adjustment in the camera really just a post-production tool that happens to be in the camera? Anyway, excellent tutorial.
I been shooting for over 17 years and I never quite understood ISO in the digital world as it feels it was always a carry over from the film days. I knew how it related to the overall final image but I never quite understood. This is a great explanation.
This is the first video I’ve seen of yours and I’m already subscribing. You are a fantastic teacher. I would have gone to college if at least one of my teachers was like you.
How does ISO now on digital cameras compare to ISO on film camera? As someone who learned photography shooting film back in the 80’s (Canon AE-1) I’d be curious 🧐 📷 Thanks 🙏🏽 P.S. also what is/was the difference between ISO & ASA (which is what I remember being the term used to rate film stock sensitivity/speed)?
This is your best video yet! Blew my mind. And I considered myself an "intermediate " photographer because I understood the triangle and could shoot manual decently. Lo and behold! Thank you! I'm one step further on the Dunning-Kruger effect graph thanks to you! 👏👏🙌🙌
ISO has become a convenience setting while it was a fixed parameter in the past with film and early digital. Now it is like having a roll of each film sensitivity in your bag and be able to change between each shot. Film was used depending on the situation: studio, street photo, concert/theater,.... All depending on the location conditions. Nowadays, you can pick depending on location and change if conditions gets better or worse (losing continuity sometime).
Thanks for this! It helps me to use the videography terms of shutter speed (in relation to frame rate), iris instead of aperture, and gain instead of ISO.
An excellent video as always. The wait for your return was worth it! Made a very dry subject amusing. Your humour is greatly appreciated. Your children must enjoy you explaining things to them with practical demonstrations like the ice tray! Love it!
Thanks! Good thoughts. The field I used to work in dealt with analog signals. It's all about base and gain. The signal itself can be wherever you want it to be. That's why equipment is calibrated before use.
I stumbled across your channel while doing research on ISO and ISO invariance. I love your approach and delivery here. Too bad you're a Fuji guy and I'm a Nikon guy, I'd watch a lot more of your videos!
Good explanation Personally I consider the triangle as follows: shutter speed, aperture and ambient light-- with ISO as applied gain as it adds noise the other three will not- ergo they are qualitatively different.
Hey Chris, in these really challenging times I am re-watching all your videos. Your amazing energy is so uplifting, please keep up the good work, and stay safe
You did a great job in this video, it is well explained and I mostly agree to everything. Considers that. However here are the little details I am not completely agree with : - 3:08 "This is not digital yet but analog" actually during exposure the information contained in the sensor is digital. Each photosite contained a certain number of electrons created from light, a digital number of electrons. This during read out that these stacked electrons are transform to a curent and to an analog voltage which is then re-digitalized. - 7:20 at base iso "the camera does not need to amplify the voltage" this does not mean anything. You still have to convert a number of electrons (or voltage) to digital unit by any means, you always have to do this transformation and you always have to apply a "gain" which is more a transformation factor than an amplification. But there is one gain (or amplification) a bit special in the camera, the base gain if you want to call it this way. The base gain is matching the capacity of your photo site with he capacity of the memory. In other word if your photo site have a capacity (full well) of 60 000e- and you gathered 30 000 photon-electron you are at half its capacity, with the base gain this will be transformed to half the memory capacity meaning of a 14bits camera 2^14 / 2 = 8 192 digital unit. I can tell you that the gain, at base iso, on such camera is 60 000/2^14 = 3.7 e-/ADU (3.7 electrons per digital unit). The case where there is no "amplification" as no meanings in the camera. The iso attached to this base gain is then computed function to photo-site quantum efficiency, size, etc... e.i. function to the sensitivity of the pixel to light.
My head is spinning, but you, Sylvain, are amazing!!! Thank you so much for that awesome explanation. Makes total sense. Man, I wish RUclips had an EDIT button for these videos. I really do appreciate this info. ISO is really, really confusing and I'm still trying to wrap my head around it! Cheers!
@@pal2tech Thanks for you reply. Honestly this is not often we can have a constructive technical chat on youtube comments. Thanks, Indeed there is a lot to think about. I think what is confusing also is the word "amplification" which makes sense at a low technical level but not really make sens to explain what is going on, I prefer to refer as "gain" even if this word has its own flow as well. Whatever the complexity of the tech behind and all the steps, the gain helps to adapte the data stored in one space (electrons in photosites) to data in an other space (digital unit). There is no raison that the output voltage of the pixel is correlated to the input of the ADC by default, you have anyway to "adapte" the voltage (derived from a number of e-) with a gain. In other word gain=1.0 is not special, it has no special meaning. I made some sketches a while ago, I have put them here for you with explanation bellow individual sketches : www.sylvainphoto.com/p667832374 Hope this help, not sure if this is easy to understand. I have a bunch more of visual materials if needed. Cheers.
@@photaudiotech5550 These are GREAT!!!! Thank you so much for putting it together!!! I am sorry for the late response. I've been buried in comments lately so getting to this just now.
Fun and clear presentation. In the days of film the concept of "exposure" as being a combination of shutter speed, aperture and ISO/ASA made some sense since the recording medium (the film) and the "sensor" (the film) were the same. In the digital realm the functions of recording medium (memory cards) and sensor have been separated. It's interesting to note that in the Zone System although ISO was vitally important (and indeed there was a rigorous test to establish the "true" film speed) once established it was exposure (in the sense of shutter speed/aperture) which determines how tones in the subject were "placed" and ultimately reproduced.
UnLearned more about iso than I thought I understood. I had many misconceptions until your brilliant demonstration. So do these principles transpose to film and an “exposure triangle” in film?
Hi Bob, thank you! For film, no, these principles do not apply and in fact ISO is truly part of exposure in film since it directly affects the silver halide crystals in the film emulsion itself. Thus, it truly does affect exposure in the case of film.
thank you very much. I finally figured out what my problem was.I bought fuji x-t4, this is an amazing camera and I fell in love with it. Hello from Russia =)))))))
Great explanation of a topic that confuses people more now than in the days of film (when I started photography). To complicate matters, I had to learn about DIN as well as ASA! I remember Kodacolor 25 and 64. When ASA400 became widely available, the sensitivity came at the cost of grain - today we see that in the form of noise.
This video randomly appeared in my google news feed, and I’m so glad it did!!!! Thank you so much for all the information. I have so many questions and your channel is exactly what I’ve been looking for and needing. Thank you so much for all your work and information. You, have definitely gained a new subscriber, lol. 😊❤️
These settings are so helpful and the insights are so good that I feel I can start using my X-T4 immediately. But I Still have update the camera to the latest firmware update. Thank you so much pal2tech 🙂👍
Good information, Chris, thanks! I would request follow-up on two points: 1. Fuji says its dynamic range changes with ISO. On my X-T20, the best ISO, 200, has the lowest dynamic range, then ISO 400 has a higher dynamic range, and then ISO 800 and above have the maximum dynamic range. Why is that, and how do we decide what's the best choice on that trade-off? 2. I still don't understand what is going on in the lower ISO extensions below the native minimum. What exactly are they doing? Thank you!
Hey Stephen, I swear you must read minds. That's EXACTLY the two topics I want to follow up on for ISO after my Auto-ISO video. I've gotten a lot of questions about that, especially #2. Ok, back to the studio I go!
I have been wondering what the downsides of using the extended ISO in the lower range (80, 100, and 125). Thank you for explaining this because I could not find this information anywhere else on the internet. Even the manual for Fujifilm X-T3 says "reduced dynamic range" which really didn't say much.
Yeah, there are some limited use cases for those 80, 100, and 125 numbers, which I hope to do in a future ISO video segment. More useful than the ones on the high end of the dial.
Oh finally a real video about ISO. For Canon shooters out there, Canon typically uses analog amplification from 200-1600 and digital gain for beyond 1600. Most Canon cameras start to go invariant at about 800 or 1600. Also for X0D bodies and above, ⅓ stop increments are digital push and pulls so invariance will depend on that. You don't want to do 5 stops of shadow recovery when using Canon cameras.
@@pal2tech it took me a few cameras to fully research this. At first I though it was limited to Digic 4 cameras, but after using the 80D, it became clear to me that Canon did not change their ISO algorithm
Thank you. The way you present things syncs perfectly with the way my brain takes in information. I just discovered your channel today. It's a rainy day in Saigon and I'll be staying in and having a bit of a binge watch.
Very good explanation. I like the way you teach the subject. Clearly you have great understanding about digital cameras! There was one thing I disagree with, when you said to avoid increasing ISO if possible. I get the reason behind it and it is a good thing to understand that you should at least be aware of the ISO, but modern sensors handle high ISO values very well and there's a good chance you might miss an important shot because you didn't bring the ISO up to get quick enough shutter speed. For example.
Yeah, I had to walk a careful line with that. My #1 concern was some Canon cameras and how they handle high ISO. Absolutely of course if you need to get the right shutter speed, and you are open all the way on Aperture, then you have no choice and should NEVER miss a shot because of the ISO. Definitely I agree with you 100%.
I try to avoid higher ISO as much as I can but there are situations where there is no way around (action photography indoor in bad light conditions). Luckily the X-T3 handles higher ISO pretty well. Much better than my old X-H1 did. Great explanation there and nice to have you back!
Thanks, it makes sense, based on the physics of the sensor. I will continue to pretend that ISO changes "film speed" and also continue to try and shoot at the lowest ISO possible (relevant to the desired outcome).
Try to go into detail about ISO when using a handheld light meter, in particular differences between the standards of ASA (film/light meter), SOS (standard output sensitivity, used by Fujifilm) and REI (recommended exposure index, used by Nikon, Canon etc.). Maybe research Doug Kerr on this.
ISO does not only affect the signal after ADC. It also increases the sensitivity of the photosites by decreasing the number of photons required to hit the site, effectively shallowing the depth of your ice cube tray So while it does not change the amount of light into the camera, it does change the value of each photon, even before amplification
Love your videos! Super informative and fun to watch! I really enjoy the way you explain the subject matter. Your technique makes it very memorable. Keep up the great work!
Well, it's easy to explain this in a couple of sentences: You choose aperture, the camera gives you a shutter speed in return. If it's not "good" enough you have to either fetch your tripod or turn the ISO up. When you turn the ISO up you stress the processor to do something that it cannot accomplish. So your punishment is noise. You cannot take photos with a camera that was not built to take those photos. So all you get is a cheap simulation of what could have been.
Thanks.. yeah, the original video script was 6 1/2 hours long. After stagnating for 2 weeks, I decided to just cut to the bare basics... and the exposure thing really hit home with me so I decided to just focus on that. Next ISO-themed video will be ISO invariance with more practical examples.
Good work. Pls consider a video explaining your choices for the Fuji XT-3 3 "ISO Auto" settings. I'm presently using one of the 3 settings all the time ... never set a specific ISO. I use the 3 settings as: #1 for daylight with min SS = 125, ISO = 160 to 3200 #2 for indoors with min SS = 60, ISO = 160 to 6400 #3 for low light with min SS = Auto, ISO = 160 to 12,800. Pls explain your thoughts on this Fuji feature??
@@BenjaminKanarek Capture 1 is the sh… I tested Fuji's X Raw Studio and was shocked how bad it handled demosaicing (wanted to use X Raw because of the superb film simulations). Water color effects all the way even when softening sharpness! CP 1 is excellent on this one.
You are most welcome Joshua!! Welcome to the channel and I'm really glad that you are here -- you are going to get some great photos I'll bet. Don't hesitate to post to IG and share your portfolio sometime. I'm at @pal2tech over there. All the best to you sir!
@@pal2tech Thank you for your reply. Not much of a portfolio. As I said, I'm new to this but am on IG @DavisDogDoc where I mostly have photos of wildlife.
Your explanations are first rate. Well done :) I was hoping to find a video explaining why my ISO won't drop below 640 in video mode on my XT-4. I'll happily keep searching your channel for that info because everything else is worth a watch anyway. Thanks!
I know this is super late but the reason it does this is because it’s the “base” ISO, meaning it looks the best here. You’ll have to use ND filters to darken your image
I am not into photgraphy, I don't know anything about it, but this video was really interesting. Now I know about ISO! I love the "More intro" bit. Thanks for sharing on the NSC Facebook page.
I found this particular low light setting for the XT3 very useful when shooting video: 4K,25p,50shutter,eterna,DR100(very important),100mb is ok and Iso 1600. From all my tests it seems Dr100 prioritize shadows and Dr400 highlights. For some reason when using all these settings together, there is almost no noise. I would never ever be able to shoot in these low light conditions with my GH5s.
It’s gain. That’s how I think of it. Too low and there’s no image. Too high and it’s clipped and distorted. The most informative part, we’re your comments about native ISO. I didn’t know that. Thanks!
Other than the mechanism of gain, same argument as in film days. This is pure semantics, and useful only for persons interested in the 'nitty gritty'. Standard current flow model in electronics is completely wrong, yet is fully accepted for use in engineering today; the net result is the same, and it's much easier to understand and follow for many. No circle in nature is truly a circle, but lets not reinvent the wheel because of this.
Excellent video, luv your analogy with the ice cube tray and water, you’d make a great science teacher. Your video is very complimentary to what the Angry Photographer has been preaching about in so many of his videos.👏👏👏
I have been seeing this idea that ISO has nothing to do with exposure in a number of videos and articles. And I understand the technical reason for this. As a technical definition of exposure is light hitting the sensor. But does such a pedantic definition help? In the end, you have to set aperture, shutter speed and ISO (depending on shooting mode,) to get the shot you want. In some cases, you might make some decisions based on keeping ISO below some value which on your camera results in too much noise. And people will keep talking about the exposure triangle, regardless.
As a newbie, I guess I struggle to understand why I would ever want to "play" with ISO since I tend to shoot in Aperture Priority mode 90% of the time. I guess my question underscores my ignorance. I can imagine there may be conditions (low light?) when one has to manipulate ISO to increase the odds of getting a shot vs not getting a shot.
ISO is a complicated topic. Hope this helps. Feel free to share any ISO tips below.
pal2tech My man Chris! Went full Wayne Szalinski lab coat mode at the end of this clip hahah. Glad to see u back at it man!! A quality video, well done! My best ISO tip is more lighting lol. In all seriousness sometimes you can’t. Then maybe all we are left with is “fix it in post” kind of work arounds... which would make a great segway video by the wayyy ;). As a new photographer it’s been hard to find content in the pal2tech learning style that helps with the whole “post process”; stacking, mild composite edits in photoshop, cleaning up noise, these are all foreign to me right now. A problem/solution approach is so valued and you’re def good at delivering that.
pal2tech 👏👏👏👏
I make it a point to NEVER buy anything or vote for anyone who advertises and otherwise interrupts RUclips vids. Got that advertisers?
I loved with how much passion and fun u explained such an difficult topic :)
I played around with single lens reflex cameras in my younger days, but am just learning how the new fangled digital cameras work. I ignore ISO with the idea that I can adjust brightness "post production." Meaning, if my computer image is dark, I can use the software to brighten it up and lose no picture quality. Am I right?
I never realized before that ISO is just like the input volume when recording audio. It doesn’t make the instrument play louder, it just amplifies the existing signal. 🤔 Thanks!
As a musician. Your comment is revelation.
ISO is input gain! Nice comparison. The noise with higher ISO photos is like the hiss of a higher noise floor from cranking the gain!
And without the glass of water and ice tray.
oh that's good
... for us old timers it was all about "film sensitivity" ASA number (usually varying between 50 and 400 ASA) and you chose your film according to the expected light conditions of your shooting setup. Sometimes you could try "pushing up" your ASA into extreme territories like 1600 or 3200 for extra dark conditions but the price to pay was obvious graininess (noise) and less contrast. There was not much wiggling room for post production corrections if you missed the right exposure mix!
Good point. I've usually thought about my digital ISO as ASA. It seems to be more like, but not completely related to push/pull. There is a healthy range of adjustable digital ISO that is natively comfortable for your camera and outside of that range it becomes the equivalent to push/pull film. OR is it that there is only one, the lowest ISO is the only true equal to a film ASA? That's where this is losing me a tiny bit.
You are the Bill Nye of photography! I grew up learning science from Bill Nye and he has such a fun, easy, yet technical way of teaching. Your videos feel the same way and I can always feel your enthusiasm for the craft which I love. Thank you for all of the knowledge bombs you continuously drop!
While everything you say here is technically correct, most of my students are only concerned with the camera's inputs and outputs. From their perspective, the "effective exposure (actual exposure + ISO)" IS the actual exposure. So, heuristically, there is a real advantage to treating ISO "as if" it were a third exposure variable. The exposure triangle is just too good a teaching tool to ignore, at least early on. Excellent video! Thanks.
Yes, I think the Exposure Triangle should always be used to explain this. I just wanted to dig a bit further under the hood in how it's affecting the sensor vs. aperture and SS.
@@pal2tech And that you did! Much appreciated!
This guy is a YT *star*, period. (The shaking of the ice cube thingy?? Getting all f* wet just to illustrate the concept?? I’m sorry, I’m not seeing ANYONE in YT going that far to explain anything…). Thank you, sir! BTW: I’ve been playing a bit more with my humble XT200 15-45mm, and your tips are definitely helping me learn more and more. Thanks again! Please keep up the good work!
It shouldn’t be called the “exposure triangle.” It should be called the image brightness triangle. Changing any of the corners has an effect on image brightness. You did a good job of explaining a very complicated subject. Personally I usually choose my shutter speed and aperture based on artistic choices and then set the overall image brightness with the ISO setting. Sometimes I do it manually and sometimes I let the camera choose one or more of the settings based on a range and strategy I have preselected.
EXACTLY: Image Brightness triangle. I'm all for that.
That cracked me up! Digital to Analogue! Priceless and more importantly unforgettable!
As a film guy, this is the best clarification of ISO in digital photography I've seen. Thanks!
When I will become as good teacher as you, this is how I will teach my students:
ISO is not your friend! ISO is that compromise that once you optimized aperture and SS allows you to gain some brightness in trade with noise.
This is how I have been seen the ISO for myself, as last tune once I could not get any more exposure through A and SS
Really love how you explain it slowly and detail. I'm not a native American. So I don't catch-up much with native speaker. Thank you so much.
After watching your video, I feel that I have learned a lot, but I want to ask a question, what is the difference between exposure index and ISO?
I had no idea that ISO was simply post exposure electrical amplification. The analogy to digital zoom is a great shorthand way to understand the concept. Thank you.
Thank you!! Yeah, it took my several weeks to wrap my mind around it, but yeah, you are exactly right: post exposure electrical amplification for sure.
I think one example of this is when you use ISO bracketing on the X-T3. ISO bracketing gives you a single exposed picture with multiple copies of it with different ISO settings. This also tells you a bit about the internal architecture of the camera - that the ISO amplification is applied *after* the exposure to the sensor has happened.
I'm with you as far as calling it I. S. O. because of my film background... I'm not changing. This was good for me. I tend to keep my ISO low. As low as I can for the situation I'm in. I am a pure novice/hobby photographer. I'm in it for fun only... I've never been paid for a single picture, but I enjoy the process.
This is what I’ve been trying to find. I’m new to photography and have an XT4, I’ve really struggled with getting all the ‘pieces’ of the puzzle together and really over complicated it for myself as no-one has explained it like this.
Thanks so much, love your videos, they’ve been my go too since purchasing my camera!
I think of it this way. "Exposure" is ambiguous. In one sense it means how much light is allowed to enter the camera and impact the sensor. In this sense of "exposure" ISO plays no role. But there is another sense of "exposure" which means something like the brightness (or darkness) of the image. Looking at an image we find too dark, we will say the image is under-exposed; and we're using "exposure" in the second sense. And in this second sense ISO has an impact on the brightness/darkness of the image.
One of few channels stating this simple yet important point.
Thank you. Some people got really angry at this.
Thanks for this video! You not only saved tons of my fotos, but also gave a good tip to save some old destroyed by electrical voltage. Greetings from Germany!
Just finished this awesome video it's good to see the information broken down in a usable way. I did one year of shooting where I set the iso at 400 and did not allow myself to move the iso. this one thing improved the quality of my photography by leaps and bounds. This method frees you to focus on composition lighting and motion capture. Liberating is the only way to describe it. I would recommend at least a few weeks of intensive shooting at a fixed iso it's a good look inward.
Thank you again for this helpful bit of information.
I LOVE how you explain ISO very creative, easy to understand and fun. People like you are natural teachers. I’m subscribing. Thank you
On my XT 4 i assigned the ISO function to one of the command wheels. I simply find it easier to use since there is no need to have a look on the big ISO button and by doing so loose sight of your composure and exposure and shutterspeed.
But aside from that i noticed another noticeable advantage. i now have access to a minimum ISO of 80 instead of 160. Strangely i do not hear anyone in RUclips about this. Just wanted to share this.
BTW thank you for all your input. Im a new fuji user and your channel helped me so much to understand my XT4.
GREETZ Cliff
This is a great explanation for why in certain situations I will, in a situation where available light cannot be managed (action nature shots, for instance), underexpose a photo with my digital cameras because I can push the exposure in [Lightroom] after the fact using its 'algorithms / amplification' bits and widgets rather than pushing the ISO in camera and using its 'algorithms / amplification' bits and widgets... doing it in post is sometimes preferable (again, to 'me') because I can control it very specifically and very precisely in post.
your channel is the best in photography! i enjoy watching and learning from you!! keep it up pal2tech!
I have just ordered a new X-T3 and am really appreciating you clear informative videos. I am learning things I have never been clear about reading other camera manuals over the years which are far too extensive and hard to understand. Many thanks. I look forward to ever new and very enjoyable video.
Old photographer, long time to understand iso concept vs exposure.
Today I understand : light plus camera settings matches what the sensor sensitivity requires
Just saw this - so important! I feel so much smarter now. Question for anyone: Suppose I am taking a picture in pretty dark conditions (such as described toward the end of the video). Could I shoot with ISO 160 instead of 6400 and just make an adjustment in post? In other words, are high ISOs in the camera really just time savers or are they doing more for me than just saving time in post? Another way of putting the question: Is the ISO adjustment in the camera really just a post-production tool that happens to be in the camera? Anyway, excellent tutorial.
Yes, you can. The Fuji is ISO invariant.
I been shooting for over 17 years and I never quite understood ISO in the digital world as it feels it was always a carry over from the film days. I knew how it related to the overall final image but I never quite understood. This is a great explanation.
Thanks man... and yeah, it's so confusing. I still don't fully understand it, LOL.
This was really helpful in explaining iso and exposure. It really opened up my eyes. The visual with the ice tray and bull horn really work.
This is the first video I’ve seen of yours and I’m already subscribing. You are a fantastic teacher. I would have gone to college if at least one of my teachers was like you.
Really helpful, now I understand how ISO works in the digital photography
Best teacher I've seen on this subject! 💚
I thought I understood ISO until this pal2tech lesson. Now I'm saving all the pal2tech vids available. Really great light style of teaching.
Vincent!!! Man, you totally made my day!!! Thank you sir!!!!! You ROCK!!!!
Everyone studying photography should watch this video. Entertaining, fun, and informative. Thank you.
Wow, thanks!
Absolutely the easiest to understand and most entertaining vid ever about ISO. Looking forward to our next date.
🙏🙏🙏 😀 Thank you!!
How does ISO now on digital cameras compare to ISO on film camera? As someone who learned photography shooting film back in the 80’s (Canon AE-1) I’d be curious 🧐 📷 Thanks 🙏🏽
P.S. also what is/was the difference between ISO & ASA (which is what I remember being the term used to rate film stock sensitivity/speed)?
This is your best video yet! Blew my mind. And I considered myself an "intermediate " photographer because I understood the triangle and could shoot manual decently. Lo and behold!
Thank you! I'm one step further on the Dunning-Kruger effect graph thanks to you! 👏👏🙌🙌
Thank you so much!! 🙏🙏
ISO has become a convenience setting while it was a fixed parameter in the past with film and early digital.
Now it is like having a roll of each film sensitivity in your bag and be able to change between each shot.
Film was used depending on the situation: studio, street photo, concert/theater,.... All depending on the location conditions.
Nowadays, you can pick depending on location and change if conditions gets better or worse (losing continuity sometime).
You simplified the explanation of ISO, especially extended ISO setting. Great energy In the delivery, overall a great video!
You are a good teacher. Thank you for sharing this.
Thanks for this! It helps me to use the videography terms of shutter speed (in relation to frame rate), iris instead of aperture, and gain instead of ISO.
Awesome Brett!!!!
An excellent video as always. The wait for your return was worth it! Made a very dry subject amusing. Your humour is greatly appreciated. Your children must enjoy you explaining things to them with practical demonstrations like the ice tray! Love it!
Thank you!!! 🙏 Yeah, gotta have fun with this stuff. Helps to wrap my head around it a bit.
Thank you. Finally debunking the exposure “triangle.”
Thanks! Good thoughts. The field I used to work in dealt with analog signals. It's all about base and gain. The signal itself can be wherever you want it to be. That's why equipment is calibrated before use.
Absolutely Charles!!! Spot on!!!! 👍
I stumbled across your channel while doing research on ISO and ISO invariance. I love your approach and delivery here. Too bad you're a Fuji guy and I'm a Nikon guy, I'd watch a lot more of your videos!
Amazing! You are the best camera teacher in RUclips 👍 Thank you!
You’re a wonderful person. You teach like no one else
Thank you so much Giovanni!! 🙏 🙏
Good explanation Personally I consider the triangle as follows: shutter speed, aperture and ambient light-- with ISO as applied gain as it adds noise the other three will not- ergo they are qualitatively different.
You make information palatable & more importantly FUN! Which happens to be how I learn best & retain interest in hobbies. Many thanks ❤
Hey Chris, in these really challenging times I am re-watching all your videos. Your amazing energy is so uplifting, please keep up the good work, and stay safe
Thank you Al!!!! Really appreciate hearing it man. Best to you and your family!!
You did a great job in this video, it is well explained and I mostly agree to everything. Considers that.
However here are the little details I am not completely agree with :
- 3:08 "This is not digital yet but analog" actually during exposure the information contained in the sensor is digital. Each photosite contained a certain number of electrons created from light, a digital number of electrons. This during read out that these stacked electrons are transform to a curent and to an analog voltage which is then re-digitalized.
- 7:20 at base iso "the camera does not need to amplify the voltage" this does not mean anything. You still have to convert a number of electrons (or voltage) to digital unit by any means, you always have to do this transformation and you always have to apply a "gain" which is more a transformation factor than an amplification. But there is one gain (or amplification) a bit special in the camera, the base gain if you want to call it this way.
The base gain is matching the capacity of your photo site with he capacity of the memory. In other word if your photo site have a capacity (full well) of 60 000e- and you gathered 30 000 photon-electron you are at half its capacity, with the base gain this will be transformed to half the memory capacity meaning of a 14bits camera 2^14 / 2 = 8 192 digital unit. I can tell you that the gain, at base iso, on such camera is 60 000/2^14 = 3.7 e-/ADU (3.7 electrons per digital unit).
The case where there is no "amplification" as no meanings in the camera.
The iso attached to this base gain is then computed function to photo-site quantum efficiency, size, etc... e.i. function to the sensitivity of the pixel to light.
My head is spinning, but you, Sylvain, are amazing!!! Thank you so much for that awesome explanation. Makes total sense. Man, I wish RUclips had an EDIT button for these videos. I really do appreciate this info. ISO is really, really confusing and I'm still trying to wrap my head around it! Cheers!
@@pal2tech Thanks for you reply. Honestly this is not often we can have a constructive technical chat on youtube comments. Thanks,
Indeed there is a lot to think about. I think what is confusing also is the word "amplification" which makes sense at a low technical level but not really make sens to explain what is going on, I prefer to refer as "gain" even if this word has its own flow as well.
Whatever the complexity of the tech behind and all the steps, the gain helps to adapte the data stored in one space (electrons in photosites) to data in an other space (digital unit).
There is no raison that the output voltage of the pixel is correlated to the input of the ADC by default, you have anyway to "adapte" the voltage (derived from a number of e-) with a gain. In other word gain=1.0 is not special, it has no special meaning.
I made some sketches a while ago, I have put them here for you with explanation bellow individual sketches :
www.sylvainphoto.com/p667832374
Hope this help, not sure if this is easy to understand. I have a bunch more of visual materials if needed.
Cheers.
@@photaudiotech5550 These are GREAT!!!! Thank you so much for putting it together!!! I am sorry for the late response. I've been buried in comments lately so getting to this just now.
Fun and clear presentation. In the days of film the concept of "exposure" as being a combination of shutter speed, aperture and ISO/ASA made some sense since the recording medium (the film) and the "sensor" (the film) were the same. In the digital realm the functions of recording medium (memory cards) and sensor have been separated. It's interesting to note that in the Zone System although ISO was vitally important (and indeed there was a rigorous test to establish the "true" film speed) once established it was exposure (in the sense of shutter speed/aperture) which determines how tones in the subject were "placed" and ultimately reproduced.
UnLearned more about iso than I thought I understood. I had many misconceptions until your brilliant demonstration. So do these principles transpose to film and an “exposure triangle” in film?
Hi Bob, thank you! For film, no, these principles do not apply and in fact ISO is truly part of exposure in film since it directly affects the silver halide crystals in the film emulsion itself. Thus, it truly does affect exposure in the case of film.
thank you very much. I finally figured out what my problem was.I bought fuji x-t4, this is an amazing camera and I fell in love with it. Hello from Russia =)))))))
Excellent!!! So glad that you figured it out!!!! Cheers!!!
Great explanation of a topic that confuses people more now than in the days of film (when I started photography). To complicate matters, I had to learn about DIN as well as ASA! I remember Kodacolor 25 and 64. When ASA400 became widely available, the sensitivity came at the cost of grain - today we see that in the form of noise.
This video randomly appeared in my google news feed, and I’m so glad it did!!!! Thank you so much for all the information. I have so many questions and your channel is exactly what I’ve been looking for and needing. Thank you so much for all your work and information. You, have definitely gained a new subscriber, lol. 😊❤️
Thank you Nicole! That's so awesome to hear! Don't hesitate to let me know if you every have any other questions!!
These settings are so helpful and the insights are so good that I feel I can start using my X-T4 immediately. But I Still have update the camera to the latest firmware update. Thank you so much pal2tech 🙂👍
Always great explanations- better in that respect thano most other camera sites.
Good information, Chris, thanks! I would request follow-up on two points:
1. Fuji says its dynamic range changes with ISO. On my X-T20, the best ISO, 200, has the lowest dynamic range, then ISO 400 has a higher dynamic range, and then ISO 800 and above have the maximum dynamic range. Why is that, and how do we decide what's the best choice on that trade-off?
2. I still don't understand what is going on in the lower ISO extensions below the native minimum. What exactly are they doing?
Thank you!
Hey Stephen, I swear you must read minds. That's EXACTLY the two topics I want to follow up on for ISO after my Auto-ISO video. I've gotten a lot of questions about that, especially #2. Ok, back to the studio I go!
I have been wondering what the downsides of using the extended ISO in the lower range (80, 100, and 125). Thank you for explaining this because I could not find this information anywhere else on the internet. Even the manual for Fujifilm X-T3 says "reduced dynamic range" which really didn't say much.
Yeah, there are some limited use cases for those 80, 100, and 125 numbers, which I hope to do in a future ISO video segment. More useful than the ones on the high end of the dial.
I had heard it wasn't good to use but had always thought it was one of those urban legends
Best explanation about ISO I have ever seen. Thank you!
Mehmet YILMAZ Wow, Mehmet!!! 🙏🙏🙏 Thank you so much!!!!
Oh finally a real video about ISO.
For Canon shooters out there, Canon typically uses analog amplification from 200-1600 and digital gain for beyond 1600. Most Canon cameras start to go invariant at about 800 or 1600. Also for X0D bodies and above, ⅓ stop increments are digital push and pulls so invariance will depend on that. You don't want to do 5 stops of shadow recovery when using Canon cameras.
You are so right about Canon's ISO for sure. Really that alone needs another video for that. Good points.
@@pal2tech it took me a few cameras to fully research this. At first I though it was limited to Digic 4 cameras, but after using the 80D, it became clear to me that Canon did not change their ISO algorithm
Thank you. The way you present things syncs perfectly with the way my brain takes in information. I just discovered your channel today. It's a rainy day in Saigon and I'll be staying in and having a bit of a binge watch.
Humorous, informative, and inspiring. I wish you to have more success with this channel!
Very good explanation. I like the way you teach the subject. Clearly you have great understanding about digital cameras! There was one thing I disagree with, when you said to avoid increasing ISO if possible. I get the reason behind it and it is a good thing to understand that you should at least be aware of the ISO, but modern sensors handle high ISO values very well and there's a good chance you might miss an important shot because you didn't bring the ISO up to get quick enough shutter speed. For example.
Yeah, I had to walk a careful line with that. My #1 concern was some Canon cameras and how they handle high ISO. Absolutely of course if you need to get the right shutter speed, and you are open all the way on Aperture, then you have no choice and should NEVER miss a shot because of the ISO. Definitely I agree with you 100%.
@@pal2tech Yeah and I know that it is not what you meant by it. I just thought someone could interpret it that way. Anyways, great stuff!
I try to avoid higher ISO as much as I can but there are situations where there is no way around (action photography indoor in bad light conditions). Luckily the X-T3 handles higher ISO pretty well. Much better than my old X-H1 did. Great explanation there and nice to have you back!
Thank you thank you thank you!! Back and more videos coming for sure!!!!
Thanks, it makes sense, based on the physics of the sensor. I will continue to pretend that ISO changes "film speed" and also continue to try and shoot at the lowest ISO possible (relevant to the desired outcome).
Absolutely. Yes, in fact, that's what I do also. I just wanted to show some more details under the hood, so to speak.
Great explanation! Great video! Also, I love your presence on camera, very engaging and well spoken, as well as funny and warm.
Thank you Tayen!!! That means so much to me to hear. Please keep in touch and thank you for stopping by the channel!
Excellent video once again. ISO explained better than I have seen it before.
Try to go into detail about ISO when using a handheld light meter, in particular differences between the standards of ASA (film/light meter), SOS (standard output sensitivity, used by Fujifilm) and REI (recommended exposure index, used by Nikon, Canon etc.). Maybe research Doug Kerr on this.
You are a genius...love from india 🇮🇳.
Complex ideas made simple. Genius - The ice tray was wonderful...
Thanks Paul!! I really appreciate the kind words sir!!!
Dear friend, you are very good at your explanations, and a lot of fun too, I just bought an XT-3 and it has helped me a lot, congratulations!
Thank you so much! 🙏
ISO does not only affect the signal after ADC. It also increases the sensitivity of the photosites by decreasing the number of photons required to hit the site, effectively shallowing the depth of your ice cube tray
So while it does not change the amount of light into the camera, it does change the value of each photon, even before amplification
I'll tell you the entire thing swells my head. It's so unbelievably confusing!
you are the best teacher ever :)
I couldn't learn it any better :))))
Love your videos! Super informative and fun to watch! I really enjoy the way you explain the subject matter. Your technique makes it very memorable. Keep up the great work!
Well, it's easy to explain this in a couple of sentences: You choose aperture, the camera gives you a shutter speed in return. If it's not "good" enough you have to either fetch your tripod or turn the ISO up. When you turn the ISO up you stress the processor to do something that it cannot accomplish. So your punishment is noise. You cannot take photos with a camera that was not built to take those photos. So all you get is a cheap simulation of what could have been.
A little complicated, but you are doing a great job by visualize it.
Thanks.. yeah, the original video script was 6 1/2 hours long. After stagnating for 2 weeks, I decided to just cut to the bare basics... and the exposure thing really hit home with me so I decided to just focus on that. Next ISO-themed video will be ISO invariance with more practical examples.
Good work. Pls consider a video explaining your choices for the Fuji XT-3 3 "ISO Auto" settings. I'm presently using one of the 3 settings all the time ... never set a specific ISO. I use the 3 settings as: #1 for daylight with min SS = 125, ISO = 160 to 3200 #2 for indoors with min SS = 60, ISO = 160 to 6400 #3 for low light with min SS = Auto, ISO = 160 to 12,800. Pls explain your thoughts on this Fuji feature??
More often than not, when knowing the dynamic range of the image, I will use iso 80. Cleaner output.
Yes, in fact I’ll be addressing this in future parts to this. Low range does have uses, the high range just is so bad.
@@pal2tech Surprisingly cleaner in fact. Especially because of how great Capture One is as well.
@@BenjaminKanarek Capture 1 is the sh… I tested Fuji's X Raw Studio and was shocked how bad it handled demosaicing (wanted to use X Raw because of the superb film simulations). Water color effects all the way even when softening sharpness! CP 1 is excellent on this one.
You are amazingggg!!! You make things seem so simple. Best chanel to learn ♥
Thank you for this explanation. I’m new to photography ( and your RUclips channel) and really appreciate explanations like this.
You are most welcome Joshua!! Welcome to the channel and I'm really glad that you are here -- you are going to get some great photos I'll bet. Don't hesitate to post to IG and share your portfolio sometime. I'm at @pal2tech over there. All the best to you sir!
@@pal2tech Thank you for your reply. Not much of a portfolio. As I said, I'm new to this but am on IG @DavisDogDoc where I mostly have photos of wildlife.
Yep, just watched. Excellent explanation.
Brilliant explanation !!! Thank you very much for this pal !!
Your explanations are first rate. Well done :) I was hoping to find a video explaining why my ISO won't drop below 640 in video mode on my XT-4. I'll happily keep searching your channel for that info because everything else is worth a watch anyway. Thanks!
I know this is super late but the reason it does this is because it’s the “base” ISO, meaning it looks the best here. You’ll have to use ND filters to darken your image
I am not into photgraphy, I don't know anything about it, but this video was really interesting. Now I know about ISO! I love the "More intro" bit. Thanks for sharing on the NSC Facebook page.
Thank yo so much!!! #NoSmallCreator (NSC) rocks!!!
I found this particular low light setting for the XT3 very useful when shooting video: 4K,25p,50shutter,eterna,DR100(very important),100mb is ok and Iso 1600. From all my tests it seems Dr100 prioritize shadows and Dr400 highlights. For some reason when using all these settings together, there is almost no noise. I would never ever be able to shoot in these low light conditions with my GH5s.
CJ Oppies interesting, thank you for sharing this.
Do you have a similar trick for shooting photography stills?
It’s gain. That’s how I think of it. Too low and there’s no image. Too high and it’s clipped and distorted. The most informative part, we’re your comments about native ISO. I didn’t know that. Thanks!
Infectious enthusiasm. Such a fun and informative video - subbed in first 60 sec! Look forward to more.
Wow, Pete!! Thank you so much!!! You ROCK sir!!!!
Great summarry - more naturally avaible light - a tripod
Other than the mechanism of gain, same argument as in film days. This is pure semantics, and useful only for persons interested in the 'nitty gritty'.
Standard current flow model in electronics is completely wrong, yet is fully accepted for use in engineering today; the net result is the same, and it's much easier to understand and follow for many.
No circle in nature is truly a circle, but lets not reinvent the wheel because of this.
Crazy person with lots of new information... Lovely 💕💕
I definitely agree on the CRAZY part!!
Glad you are back. Very good explanation of ISO. I learned a little more. Thanks for this! I am looking forward to tour next video my friend!
Aw, Norm you are too kind!! Thank you so much!!!
I just stumbled upon pa2tech. lThis is such a fabulous explanation of ISO--great for any photography level. Glad to subscribe!
Thank you so much! I really appreciate that and look forward to seeing you around here again!!
Excellent video, luv your analogy with the ice cube tray and water, you’d make a great science teacher. Your video is very complimentary to what the Angry Photographer has been preaching about in so many of his videos.👏👏👏
I have been seeing this idea that ISO has nothing to do with exposure in a number of videos and articles. And I understand the technical reason for this. As a technical definition of exposure is light hitting the sensor. But does such a pedantic definition help? In the end, you have to set aperture, shutter speed and ISO (depending on shooting mode,) to get the shot you want. In some cases, you might make some decisions based on keeping ISO below some value which on your camera results in too much noise. And people will keep talking about the exposure triangle, regardless.
Agree, still a valid way to understand the basic concepts.
It would be interesting to compare ISO to "noise" in film cameras and how that correlates.
Just realized this as i was trying to learn about my camera, then this vid showed up. Niceeee
As a newbie, I guess I struggle to understand why I would ever want to "play" with ISO since I tend to shoot in Aperture Priority mode 90% of the time. I guess my question underscores my ignorance. I can imagine there may be conditions (low light?) when one has to manipulate ISO to increase the odds of getting a shot vs not getting a shot.
Good to have you back, great explanation of ISO and what it actually does to the image quality.
Thank you so much!! Going to stay awhile. I like it here. 😉
Good to hear that 👍