The difference is, the orcs tend to bring it upon themselves, and have generally had it coming. They were far too quick to lose faith in Trinimac and jump ship over to Malacath.
@@JohnDoe-nq4du Trinimac and Malacath are literally the same person. What the Osmer should've done is started worshipping Boethia after she relieved herself of Trinimac. She only did what she did to expose Trinimac as a liar to the Osmer yet they still worship him as Malacath.
The Reach and the Forsworn reek of cut content, like there’s the Forsworn conspiracy and escape from Cidnha mine, but after that nothing, Madanach just tells you to beware the forsworn and leaves. There is some lines from the workers in the slums, but other then that nothing. I feel like at some point they planned a follow up or something. Modders have mostly ignored the Forsworn too, there’s a mod that makes it so they wont attack you if you side with them, but that’s it. Not to mention there isn’t much to do in Karthwasten, and Markarth has much less content then Riften, Winterhold, and especially Solitude.
There's one where you can join them, do Forsworn quests and have any number of them follow you. A shame how you can't take over the Reach with them however. You could even have a choice of who rules between Madanach and some Hagraven queen.
They more than likely do, we know the Thalmor supply the Stormcloaks via proxies such as the high elf trader in Windhelm (you can find a letter in her house signed E the same signature you find on a thalmor assassin sent against the player)
I will always and forever be disappointed that we couldn't join them to take back control of the reach instead of giving markarth to the slave labor silver baron family - you'd think the rebellion could find understanding in being persecuted for their religious beliefs and their land being imposed upon. imagine an outcome in the civil war where you dispose of the pos thalmor asset ulfric and are able to return the reach to the foresworn.
You sound like ulfric is working with the talmor, while the only use they have for is the civil war still going, not that ulfric win or loose, both side of the civil war hate the dominion
If it wasn’t for their religious/cultural practices they’d get better treatment. Hell, they make even the most traditional of orc subcultures look tame. I do agree tho, that option in the game would be amazing!
It's a shame that Markarth is just full of assholes. Every playthrough I spend 2 minutes there and want to leave - and the region is chock full of some of the best little quests/storylines.
@Martin_Boru_The_Herald eh... not really. I mean, what can you really say about orcs apart from malacath is their patron, they used to be elves, and that they live under the code of malacath? And Breton culture is literally just German culture. I mean, compare them to the imperials who have a rich and deep history as rulers, warriors, politicians, and mages. Or the dunmer who are literally one of the most complex peoples in all fiction. Or the nords who worship totem gods and hail from atmora. Or the argonians and the hist and sithis and the shadowscales and all that. Or the khajiit with their connections to the moons and their reverence for azura. Or the redguards with swordsingers and ashabbah. Or the altmer with the aldmeri dominion, mannimarco, and vanus galerion. So yeah. Not all of them are culturally interesting. But they do all have cool skills, unique looks, and with orcs, they create some of the greatest weapons in the empire.
It may be strange for people whose cultures and nations never faced such existential treat, but as a Pole I totally understand Forsworn. When your lands are partitioned between hostile nations that treat you like a subhuman, and try to destroy your people, culture and identity while covering and colonising more and more land that your forefathers died for. There is a line of no return. When the injustice is too great. Then unavoidably such partisants as forsworn rise up. Nords call them fanatics. But is no mere fanaticism. It is a sacrifice. They are spilling blood, and they themselfs are an offering - their suffering and theyr life and death to feed the fire upon which the armor of culture and national identity is reforged. Reinforced. Not for themselves. But for their children, and their children when they will need such perseverance again. When they will need strength to survive another cataclysm, another massacre, another partition and extermination. At some point it is just unavoidable. The blood of ancestors demand it. The future of descendants demand it. And your own traumas and injustice demand to take with you to the oblivion every last -german- nord you can find.
Every time I listen to Heilung, I think of the forsworn. The forsworn reminds me of my rebellious Scottish ancestors who rejected the English authority and then moved to the American Appalachians, where they still reject any kind of authority to this day.
As a resident of the American Appalachians, you're not entirely wrong. We are very protective of our land, our culture, and our religion and most jurisdictions don't even have local law enforcement.
I did appreciate their ethos, "Hippity hoppity get off my property", also, "Howdy. Now leave." They do seem to have a lot in common with various persecuted minorities or those on the receiving end of colonialism. Skyrim has a lot going for it, but the role playing portion of the RPG is limited.
You mean joinable faction? 100% agree with you. Join the Forsworn to take back their lands and join the Silverhand to depose the unworthy werewolves who betrayed Ysgramor. It's obvious they were meant to be the true Companions.
I do find it funny that Ulfric and the Stormcloak rebellion are basically fighting against the empire for the right to worship one of its most prominent leaders as a God. Imagine Scotland going to war with England because they wanna worship Henry VIII 😂
The first word is redundant and unnecessary: everyone in ES is evil. The Forsworn are the closest thing to a non-evil faction we've ever gotten in these games, so calling them "evil deer people" reduces the term "evil" to meaninglessness.
@@JohnDoe-nq4du they practice black magic and human sacrifice what part of that isn't evil? They slaughter everyone they find and when they get treated the same its we are the victims?. They lost a war
The Bretons didn't come into existence until late in the Merethic era and they're literally living out of Atmoran ruins. They weren't there first. They weren't even there second.
@seekingabsolution1907 - They weren't there before the modern Nords and they had to push out the Atmorans living there to move in. That was the whole deal with Red Eagle. The Empire has nothing to do with it. Not to mention the fact it was already Falmer/Dwemer land centuries before the first of them arrived. They are colonizers.
The Inca and the Aztecs would not be indigenous by that logic because they conquered other groups before the European colonizers came. If you need a group to have never moved or had conflicts ever then you exclude huge swathes of indigenous groups from being indigenous. Heck if you’re including the falmer then the nords have no right to claim any part of Skyrim either
@@SupahTrunks7 - No. Your argument is not only not comparable, it's self-defeating. It's amusing watching people try to make comparisons to real-world colonizing when what happened here was not even vaguely analogous. The Inca and Aztec empires existed in their regions before they expanded their empires. They were already indigenous to the continent. You could try and argue that the act of conquering another group made them indigenous to that new land, but if that's your argument, the European settlers became indigenous the moment they did the same. It's fallacious reasoning. You aren't indigenous to conquered land. However, none of this is at all analogous to the fictional lore of Skyrim and The Reach. The Reachmen can't be indigenous to the Reach because THEY DIDN'T EXIST when the Reach was settled. Once again, it was already lived in by Falmer, Dwemer, and Atmorans before Reachmen or Bretons in general even came into existence. They only moved into the Reach after the Direnni Hegemony pushed them out, and there were already people living there. Having claim over an area and being indigenous are not the same thing. I never said the Nords were indigenous, only that the Atmorans had claim on the land before the Reachmen existed. Nords claim the land because their direct ancestors built the same ruins the Reachmen are inhabiting. The Reachmen are several steps removed from the Atmorans, so their claim would be not only not indigenous, but less valid from a hereditary standpoint. The Falmer were the first to live there, so would be the only ones that could really be considered indigenous. To be indigenous, you have to fit, at the very least, one of the definitions of the term. The Reachmen do not. The Falmer do. 1) originating or occurring naturally in a particular place; native. 2) inhabiting or existing in a land from the earliest times or from before the arrival of colonists. The Reachmen came into existence in High Rock as offspring of Nedes and the Altmer. They did not come into being in the Reach or Skyrim. They did not inhabit or exist in the land "from the earliest times," as the Falmer, Dwemer, and Atmorans were already there before them. They WERE the colonists. The most recent colonists, arguably, as the Nords are just watered-down Atmorans. They literally moved from High Rock as colonists to the already-populated Reach.
@@schadenfreude3236 Wrong. The Nedes aka the ancestors of both the Bretons, Imperials, and Reachmen lived in the Reach long before the Atmorans came to Skyrim. The only races that most likely predates the Reachmen are the Falmer and Dwemer but the Reachfolk are more indigenous to the Reach then then the Nords or thier Atmoran ancestors are. Since its a fact that the Nedes were on Tamriel long before the Atmorans came and like I said before, the Nedes are the ancestors of the Reachmen and Nedic tribes inhabited the Reach long before the coming of the Atmorans/Nords or the Direnni.
I think Skyrim's depiction of the Forsworn leaves a lot to be desired. Using Skyrim as a source exclusively, you can only really come out with a negative impression. Cannibals, worshippers of some of the foulest Daedra, all wrapped in a stereotypical "savage" package. Only in ESO do you gain some context/sympathetic representation. No longer a monolith, their religion and... dietary habits, are put into a wider context of survival in a treacherous land, in tune with it rather than conquering it as the nords would.
The Forsworn are a savage and barbaric sub-culture of the Reachmen. The Reachmen themselves aren't bad by any measure, but the Forsworn are a wicked, brutal, and vindictive group. The events of ESO are thousands of years before the events of Skyrim; they are not the same peoples. There's plenty of lore in Skyrim that gives them a sympathetic light, including events in the game, but it's tainted by the Forsworn being absolute bastards and the fact that unlike ESO, Skyrim doesn't spoon-feed it to you.
In ESO you find out they were directly responsible for a potential world-ending apocalypse and indirectly aided in another one. Oh and that Molag Bal was one of their mainstay gods, their briarhearts are created using plants that feed on human sacrifices, and on top of all that they do indeed practice slavery. In what way did ESO help their image?
@@schadenfreude3236 'Aren't bad by any measure' My brother in Lorkhan, they worship Molag Bal, Hircine, Mehrunes Dagon and Namira. Briarheart trees are grown with mass human sacrifice. They aided Molag Bal in the Planemeld and were directly responsible for the Ambitions of Mehrunes Dagon and the associated crisis. The Crow-Wife Clan sacrifices a child to Namira every New Moon. When the Longhouse Emperors were a thing, the entirety of the Reach was ruled by a Mehrunes Dagon cult trying to start the Oblivion Crisis early. That there are a *few* Reachmen factions willing to cooperate with the player against an army of vampires and werewolves that want to kill them and are willing to entertain a truce with the gigantic multinational military confederation on their border doesn't make them *good.* Ard Caddach from ESO is even a member of the Blackdrake Clan and was perfectly chill with the whole Mehrunes Dagon thing. He was also working with the Gray Host until they turned on him. And he's one of the 'good' ones. The Forsworn act just like the Reachmen of old. The difference is they've been so beaten down over the years that they're more of a nuisance than a threat.
@@Deatheater4444 - You're just attributing the sins of some to all. Nowhere does any of the lore say ALL Reachmen are guilty of these things, as it always points out specific groups that do them. I'm not willing to paint an entire minority group as evil based on that alone. And if we're counting just the worship of Molag Bal, Hircine, Dagon, and Namira as making a group evil, there's an entire province called Morrowind that would like to have a talk with you.
@@schadenfreude3236 Out of 25 named Reachmen clans, 16 of them practice human sacrifice in some way. The ones that don't are clans that have one cameo appearance as background NPCs. It's abundantly clear the foundation is rotten from the ground up.
Bethesda had all this interesting lore and really said: "yep, lets just make them bandits" I sympathize heavily with the Reachmen being a native american, I can see a bit of my own culture and their plight with them
I personally don't care about the Fornsworn. Listen I was just exploring Skyrim. They attacked me. They died. Pure and simple and since they're enemies by default they will continue to die as long as I play Skyrim.
No. Nothing I heard about the Forsworn was misheard. They're lost savages on the path of ruin. Their claim to The Reach is no different than the Nords' claim on Skyrim. "-belongs to the Forsworn / -belongs to the Nords". See? No difference. One hard truth about all of Skyrim is this: it belongs to those who take it. But perhaps that applies to all lands, does it not?
This would have made such a great playable faction and many factions should have had a set of prerequisites to join. Reachmen, for instance, could have required you play as a Breton (because while technically not Bretons, the NPCs were and it makes them visually distinct from the Nord majority). It could also require that you either please Hircine, be a werebeast of some kind, or become a briarheart (which could come with a series of strengths and weaknesses perhaps like the inability to be affected by anything that heals over time or making one boosting the positive effects of potions for every negative effect it causes making them play into the alchemy skill more with the combination). ...and let's face it, an independent Markarth would make for a very different way to end the influence of the Stormcloaks or Empire in Skyrim depending on who you get to endorse your legitimacy through alliance. I always thought it would have added so much depth to the game to have the Stormcloaks only TRULY accept you if you were a Nord. Khajiit should have remained banned from cities save for a few places where they might earn entry but could still sneak in, playing into their thieving reputation and making it really feel like you were shunned. This could be used to a lesser degree with Argonians in certain cities with Windhelm having to be careful where they went to avoid fights while also getting a "shadow scale" bonus power on joining the Dark Brotherhood. Altmer should have be able to join the Thalmor and Bosmer follow the green pact to make the gameplay far more distinct. Orcs should have had more to do in strongholds, possibly even picking one to take over and either slaughtering the others or dueling their chiefs to gain control of the Orc clans of Skyrim... maybe even taking over a city in the aftermath or constructing a grand fortress to become a player on the political stage. As a Dunmer, you could have worked to establish House Telvanni with the help of Neloth even becoming his political equal with his endorsement or join Redoran in Raven Rock. And as for Redguard, you could have maybe joined the Alik'r and gone on a number of bounty-hunting missions and securing your faction's interests in parts of Skyrim. The Empire would be accepting of all races but an Imperial might get small bonuses in the legion and thieves guild by being able to get special quests and information from certain NPCs with similar interests. I know it's a lot, but making each race feel more distinct makes players want to experience the game through the eyes of its diverse people and have your alignments majorly influence how others treat you based on their own politics. Many of the races that allow for the creation of a strong political influence could have some great tie-ins to the civil war in Skyrim and allow a shorter version of the quest to let you form a recognized power. This also could mean that any faction you join might need to contend with the others at some point if their rise seems inevitable without the player. Stopping the Orcs from rising up or the Great Houses of Morrowind from expanding might make for a great quest while siding with them might give you more allies in the final showdown between the main warring factions while also promising an uncertain future if any become more powerful. ...just a few thoughts for those who actually took the time to read all that.
Honestly, I know what they were trying to do with their aesthetic, but this is just another faction that makes no sense. They would freeze. They have the occasional tent, they have a fire or two. They barely cover themselves. I get that it's a game, but I really wish they would throw in some extra descriptions and stuff. That would do heavy lifting in the realism department. Like, check it: "Brr! It's freezing out, how can you nords stand to wear so little?" "Our people are home in the cold, we suffer in the heat, but whichever God designed us made us for the snow. It doesn't freeze us. Though, the mead helps us too.." Or something like that. I'd prefer a more scientific reason, but I get that it's fantasy, so saying they were literally designed for it, would at least make better sense than nothing
Funny how the "native" Reachmen only have impermanent settlements within the ancient Nordic stone cities lolz almost like the Nords came there first (after the Falmer who came after the Dwemer).
@@seekingabsolution1907I do feel like after the Reachmen were defeated in ancient times (I don't remember when it actually happened) that the Nords of the time would have burned the Reachmen villages down after pillaging them. So that could be a reason why the Forsworn are in semi permanent encampments as they have no actual structures to return to
The forsworn once lesrning of them and there back story also learning who currently ruled, i was like ok lets see them in power..nope just sits in a camp and dose nothing and the forsworn stjll attack, but honestly the paths they picked to stay around has honestly lead them being there own worst PR Ad.
3:07 incorrect the Bretons didn't even exist when the dwemer and snow elves lived in skyrim, the foresworn are all Breton. The reachmen literally killed the previous inhabitants in the reach, the Nords. Dog making a whole wrong video ironically saying what we were told was wrong lol
That's because the ancestors of reachmen were Nedes. Humans who came from Atmora long before Ysgramor. So long ago they inhabited the land when even Topal the Pilot was first exploring the lands of Tamriel. Bretons were the result of Aldmeri Elves mixing with local humans who were already there, like the ancestors of the Foresworn were. This is basic historical fact of Tamriel.
@@joendeo1890 there’s no mention of Nedes settling the Reach or the Reachmen being directly descended from them it’s stated that they’re closest to the Bretons, who were created by crossbreeding between Elves and Nedes during a time when the Direnni were enslaving humans, and when the Nords arrived they attacked the Elves to free the human slaves.
@knightingale9833 yes. And Bretons are just Nedes who mixed with the Direnni elves who controlled the reach for awhile. The human slaves you mentioned were Nedes. Bretons, The Forsworn, the Imperials. All are decended from various groups of Nedes. Redguards and Nords are migrants from other continents.
The armor from the opening shot was armor of the old gods replacer, There's a few different variations of it And I got it on Xbox So I don't know where you'll find it on PC.
I actually really support the forsworn in all my playthroughs. Was really disappointed we never got an expansion based around them. They're essentially just relegated to quirky bandits in the video game.
The forsworn lost a war boo who they practice black magic, human sacrifice, and they killed just as many innocent people. But all of a sudden when they get crushed its too far? They sound exactly the same as the great kawns in fallout new vegas they pushed the bear and got crushed in the process..
They are an interesting faction that we couldn't join and I love to learn more of the reachmen, and maybe if Elders Scrolls 6 comes out they expanded on reachmen lore, and other cultures of Tamriel that haven't been expanded upon in the games.
The fact that the forsworn inhabit ancient nord ruins in the reach causes me to doubt that it’s their land and that the nords stole it. If the nords worshipped alduin there then its nord land mate.
A nicely made video, but a great deal rosy. The Reachmen are intractable, offering only two options to any neighbor: dominate or be dominated (including every Reachman tribe against the next). The Forsworn are of the most hideously violent brutes to be found in TES, and the fact that basically every Reachman not only quietly endorses their every action but secretly offers material support to them proves that there is little distinction to be found beyond a willingness to give up a comfortable life.
I only wish they would flesh their faction out better. Too many Bethesda games have a faction exist only as fodder to kill. Sure the Reachmen have people in hiding and they have camps for war .etc but where do they live? Where are their children, if they have no home they would have no recruitment base.
I was going to say that the account of Ulfric's take over was a bit gratuitous and unrealistic, but then I remembered that there's literally like 15-20 people living in the city all up, so it does make sense that he killed every civilian that didn't actively fight for him, lmao.
@sheogorath6834 actually one does. Braig. Madanach has you talk to him and says he was in the mines the longest besides Madanach himself. He tells you his Daughter was executed and would've been 23 by now. Madanach has been in for 20 years, Borkal for 12. This means Braig's daughter, Anthra could've been anywhere between 3-11 when her head was chopped off in front of him.
@sheogorath6834 either the Jarl or Thonar. Either way that story always gets to me. Not saying the Forsworn are 100% in the right, but damn i can understand why they'd hate literally everyone.
@@wolffrdu6463 yea the reachmen flay and raid and pillage Bretons just as much as they do to the Nords, also Breton are the Orginal native of the Reach not reachmen.
@@CommanderM117 no, the first where the nede, the population of human both the reachman and the breton come from, and they split up because of the direni high elfs, the breton where the first to be vassal, then took over the land of the reach, then the nord fighted the direni elfs for the lands while the breton stay vassal, then breton Even fighted on the side of the direni elf and the ayleids against the nord and the allessian order (not to confuse the rebelion of allessia, the war I speak of appen after the rebelion won and was dirrected again the ayleids that sided with allessia)
@@wolffrdu6463 the breton are nede but the Reachmen are pure blood breton and Nord hybrid prior to nordic invasion of the Reach their was no reachmen only Breton and their Ayleid Subject still living, the nede stop existing aftercyrodiil unified and redguards wiped out the remaining ones in hammerfell. as for the Alessian Order their was no nede left they either became Imperial or where wiped out by redguards, bred to death by the Direnni/Atmorans creating breton and Nords. in theory they may have some Nedic ancetory but it not as strong as it was back before the merethic/Dawn era by the time the Atmoran arrived most need nolonger existed.
Beta reachman: "we are the true sons and daughters of the reach!!" Get it? It's like the thing you guys say! Triggered? Chad nord: fus ro dahs him off the mountain
I was blown away when I learned that some reachmen actually became emperors. Although that lore came from Elder Scrolls Online. And some people feel it isnt canon.
All I know is this. I'm the Forsworn's grim reaper, I've taken many forms and all have carved a bloody path across the reach. Forsworn. Silverbloods, it doesn't honestly matter. Those who prey on the innocent, will know death's cold embrace. By sword, by spell, or by bare hand.
They aren't even the original peoples of the area. They are living out of Atmoran ruins that predate the existence of Breton bloodlines by thousands of years.
@@averagedemocrat9546 - No, that analogy isn't even slightly correct. Bretons are a distinct race born of Nedic people in High Rock interbreeding with Altmer. They are half-elves, several genetic steps away from their Atmoran roots. If they are native anywhere, it would be High Rock. It could be argued that Nedes, Colovians, and Nibenese people are all Atmorans as they are all of Atmoran descent, but it's made pretty clear in lore that time away from Atmora caused them to dramatically change. Atmorans are a now-extinct race of humans straight from Atmora that were larger, stronger, and more magically-inclined than the Nords are. There's a reason a lot of powerful Merethic-era mages were Nords, such as Shalidor and the dragon priests, but modern Nords shun magic. Simple fact is that no existing group of humans are Atmoran any longer, unless there are still some that survived the frostfall in Atmora, though Third Era expeditions have pretty much ruled that out. Roman and Italian are not races, just nationalities. Anyone who is naturalized in Italy is Italian. Anyone who became a Roman citizen was Roman. That doesn't magically make you native to Italy or Rome. Your argument would be like saying I'm English because my family came from England a hundred years ago. I'm not native to England. Nationality does not equal race, nor does race in a fantasy world maintain any level of congruence with the real world concept of races. Orcs were Aldmer at one point, but no one with any sense considers them elves. They are completely changed. The same goes for Atmorans compared to their descendant races, even the Nords. Unlike the Nords, however, the Bretons (and thus the Reachmen) had completely abandoned Atmoran culture, beliefs, and the Reach before trying to reclaim it later. A better comparison would be Neanderthal man. We know they existed and we know that their genetic legacy does live on in some groups, but Neanderthals themselves do not continue to exist. They were bred out of existence like the Atmorans, Nedes, and most of the Direnni elves.
Meanwhile the orcs are like “Yeah, how many kingdoms have you guys lost?”
The difference is, the orcs tend to bring it upon themselves, and have generally had it coming. They were far too quick to lose faith in Trinimac and jump ship over to Malacath.
@@JohnDoe-nq4du trinimac and malacath are the exact same god just post being vored
@@JohnDoe-nq4duIsn't Malacath just excreted Trinimac or did I misremember some parts of the lore
@@JohnDoe-nq4du Trinimac and Malacath are literally the same person. What the Osmer should've done is started worshipping Boethia after she relieved herself of Trinimac. She only did what she did to expose Trinimac as a liar to the Osmer yet they still worship him as Malacath.
@@JohnDoe-nq4duisn’t Malacath formerly Trinimac?
Me: Yeah, I feel for the Forsworn.
The Forsworn: *kills me on sight.*
Also me: …I feel happy to have people to test my magic mods on, that is.
😂lol I caught that one
“Aetheria says hi”
The Reach and the Forsworn reek of cut content, like there’s the Forsworn conspiracy and escape from Cidnha mine, but after that nothing, Madanach just tells you to beware the forsworn and leaves. There is some lines from the workers in the slums, but other then that nothing. I feel like at some point they planned a follow up or something. Modders have mostly ignored the Forsworn too, there’s a mod that makes it so they wont attack you if you side with them, but that’s it. Not to mention there isn’t much to do in Karthwasten, and Markarth has much less content then Riften, Winterhold, and especially Solitude.
There's one where you can join them, do Forsworn quests and have any number of them follow you. A shame how you can't take over the Reach with them however. You could even have a choice of who rules between Madanach and some Hagraven queen.
@ cool what’s it called
I agree! Theyve had over a decade to fix it tho or at least make it a DLC. Disappointing they basically abandoned it
Imagine if the Thalmor supported them as a proxy to further destabilize the Skyrim/Highrock region
that would be smart
That could work actually. Then backstab them after wards. Just dark elves stuff.
They more than likely do, we know the Thalmor supply the Stormcloaks via proxies such as the high elf trader in Windhelm (you can find a letter in her house signed E the same signature you find on a thalmor assassin sent against the player)
@@88GAF I don't think the khajit cook from the party that elenwen sends to fight you counts as an assassin xD but yes that's her signature I guess
@ the cook also has a voiceline that clearly states this is what you get for interfering with the thalmor
I will always and forever be disappointed that we couldn't join them to take back control of the reach instead of giving markarth to the slave labor silver baron family - you'd think the rebellion could find understanding in being persecuted for their religious beliefs and their land being imposed upon. imagine an outcome in the civil war where you dispose of the pos thalmor asset ulfric and are able to return the reach to the foresworn.
You sound like ulfric is working with the talmor, while the only use they have for is the civil war still going, not that ulfric win or loose, both side of the civil war hate the dominion
I'm sure there's a mod for that
Unfortunately I have seen the savages' religion and find it unacceptable. The Reach, like all of Skyrim, belongs to the Nords.
Lets see I'd like a mod that allowed you to take out the entire silverblood clan and leave the head priest of Dibella as Jarl of MArkarth
If it wasn’t for their religious/cultural practices they’d get better treatment. Hell, they make even the most traditional of orc subcultures look tame. I do agree tho, that option in the game would be amazing!
I did a rp playthrough as forsworn a while ago and it’s still one of my favourite playthroughs I’ve ever done
It's a shame that Markarth is just full of assholes. Every playthrough I spend 2 minutes there and want to leave - and the region is chock full of some of the best little quests/storylines.
Same, downloaded a bunch of mods for survival and to make the forsworn friendly, it was a blast
The reachmen, dunmer, and khajiit all have such rich and fascinating lore. Redguards and nords too.
i think it is safe to say every one has great lore
If you're a morrowind fan, check out Skyrim: Home of the Nords mod
@@dollar4banana114 i would if I had a pc lol
@@dollar4banana114 I've seen videos of it tho and I think it's pretty dope
@Martin_Boru_The_Herald eh... not really. I mean, what can you really say about orcs apart from malacath is their patron, they used to be elves, and that they live under the code of malacath? And Breton culture is literally just German culture. I mean, compare them to the imperials who have a rich and deep history as rulers, warriors, politicians, and mages. Or the dunmer who are literally one of the most complex peoples in all fiction. Or the nords who worship totem gods and hail from atmora. Or the argonians and the hist and sithis and the shadowscales and all that. Or the khajiit with their connections to the moons and their reverence for azura. Or the redguards with swordsingers and ashabbah. Or the altmer with the aldmeri dominion, mannimarco, and vanus galerion. So yeah. Not all of them are culturally interesting. But they do all have cool skills, unique looks, and with orcs, they create some of the greatest weapons in the empire.
It may be strange for people whose cultures and nations never faced such existential treat, but as a Pole I totally understand Forsworn.
When your lands are partitioned between hostile nations that treat you like a subhuman, and try to destroy your people, culture and identity while covering and colonising more and more land that your forefathers died for. There is a line of no return.
When the injustice is too great. Then unavoidably such partisants as forsworn rise up. Nords call them fanatics. But is no mere fanaticism. It is a sacrifice. They are spilling blood, and they themselfs are an offering - their suffering and theyr life and death to feed the fire upon which the armor of culture and national identity is reforged. Reinforced. Not for themselves. But for their children, and their children when they will need such perseverance again. When they will need strength to survive another cataclysm, another massacre, another partition and extermination.
At some point it is just unavoidable. The blood of ancestors demand it. The future of descendants demand it. And your own traumas and injustice demand to take with you to the oblivion every last -german- nord you can find.
At the end of the day just remember there is a difference between Reachman and Forsworn, mainly one is a people and the other a cult/way of life.
Every time I listen to Heilung, I think of the forsworn. The forsworn reminds me of my rebellious Scottish ancestors who rejected the English authority and then moved to the American Appalachians, where they still reject any kind of authority to this day.
As a resident of the American Appalachians, you're not entirely wrong. We are very protective of our land, our culture, and our religion and most jurisdictions don't even have local law enforcement.
I did appreciate their ethos, "Hippity hoppity get off my property", also, "Howdy. Now leave."
They do seem to have a lot in common with various persecuted minorities or those on the receiving end of colonialism.
Skyrim has a lot going for it, but the role playing portion of the RPG is limited.
Except I presume that your ancestors never made a pact with a literal demon lord. Apart from the French
Heilung really fits the Forsworn really well. The aesthetic rocks
@tamlandipper29 Which demon lord did the forsworn make a pact with? They are nature worshippers. They prefer old school druid type magic.
Much like Dawnguard, I think the Forsworn and the Silver Hand should've had their own quests.
You mean joinable faction? 100% agree with you. Join the Forsworn to take back their lands and join the Silverhand to depose the unworthy werewolves who betrayed Ysgramor. It's obvious they were meant to be the true Companions.
Being a descendant of the Urshilaku tribe, I admire the Reachmen. Let them be.
I do find it funny that Ulfric and the Stormcloak rebellion are basically fighting against the empire for the right to worship one of its most prominent leaders as a God. Imagine Scotland going to war with England because they wanna worship Henry VIII 😂
I always referred to the Forsworn as, "Evil Deer People!"
The first word is redundant and unnecessary: everyone in ES is evil. The Forsworn are the closest thing to a non-evil faction we've ever gotten in these games, so calling them "evil deer people" reduces the term "evil" to meaninglessness.
@@JohnDoe-nq4du what are you on about the only evil factions are the dark elves, the high elves, the snow elves and these freaky deer people
@@JohnDoe-nq4du they practice black magic and human sacrifice what part of that isn't evil? They slaughter everyone they find and when they get treated the same its we are the victims?. They lost a war
The Bretons didn't come into existence until late in the Merethic era and they're literally living out of Atmoran ruins. They weren't there first. They weren't even there second.
They were there before the empire and the modern nords, which makes them indigenous through a colonial lens.
@seekingabsolution1907 - They weren't there before the modern Nords and they had to push out the Atmorans living there to move in. That was the whole deal with Red Eagle. The Empire has nothing to do with it. Not to mention the fact it was already Falmer/Dwemer land centuries before the first of them arrived. They are colonizers.
The Inca and the Aztecs would not be indigenous by that logic because they conquered other groups before the European colonizers came. If you need a group to have never moved or had conflicts ever then you exclude huge swathes of indigenous groups from being indigenous. Heck if you’re including the falmer then the nords have no right to claim any part of Skyrim either
@@SupahTrunks7 - No. Your argument is not only not comparable, it's self-defeating. It's amusing watching people try to make comparisons to real-world colonizing when what happened here was not even vaguely analogous.
The Inca and Aztec empires existed in their regions before they expanded their empires. They were already indigenous to the continent. You could try and argue that the act of conquering another group made them indigenous to that new land, but if that's your argument, the European settlers became indigenous the moment they did the same. It's fallacious reasoning. You aren't indigenous to conquered land.
However, none of this is at all analogous to the fictional lore of Skyrim and The Reach. The Reachmen can't be indigenous to the Reach because THEY DIDN'T EXIST when the Reach was settled. Once again, it was already lived in by Falmer, Dwemer, and Atmorans before Reachmen or Bretons in general even came into existence. They only moved into the Reach after the Direnni Hegemony pushed them out, and there were already people living there.
Having claim over an area and being indigenous are not the same thing. I never said the Nords were indigenous, only that the Atmorans had claim on the land before the Reachmen existed. Nords claim the land because their direct ancestors built the same ruins the Reachmen are inhabiting. The Reachmen are several steps removed from the Atmorans, so their claim would be not only not indigenous, but less valid from a hereditary standpoint. The Falmer were the first to live there, so would be the only ones that could really be considered indigenous.
To be indigenous, you have to fit, at the very least, one of the definitions of the term. The Reachmen do not. The Falmer do.
1) originating or occurring naturally in a particular place; native.
2) inhabiting or existing in a land from the earliest times or from before the arrival of colonists.
The Reachmen came into existence in High Rock as offspring of Nedes and the Altmer. They did not come into being in the Reach or Skyrim. They did not inhabit or exist in the land "from the earliest times," as the Falmer, Dwemer, and Atmorans were already there before them. They WERE the colonists. The most recent colonists, arguably, as the Nords are just watered-down Atmorans. They literally moved from High Rock as colonists to the already-populated Reach.
@@schadenfreude3236 Wrong. The Nedes aka the ancestors of both the Bretons, Imperials, and Reachmen lived in the Reach long before the Atmorans came to Skyrim. The only races that most likely predates the Reachmen are the Falmer and Dwemer but the Reachfolk are more indigenous to the Reach then then the Nords or thier Atmoran ancestors are. Since its a fact that the Nedes were on Tamriel long before the Atmorans came and like I said before, the Nedes are the ancestors of the Reachmen and Nedic tribes inhabited the Reach long before the coming of the Atmorans/Nords or the Direnni.
Alternate video title: The Forsworn are exactly they are portrayed to be.
I think Skyrim's depiction of the Forsworn leaves a lot to be desired. Using Skyrim as a source exclusively, you can only really come out with a negative impression. Cannibals, worshippers of some of the foulest Daedra, all wrapped in a stereotypical "savage" package.
Only in ESO do you gain some context/sympathetic representation. No longer a monolith, their religion and... dietary habits, are put into a wider context of survival in a treacherous land, in tune with it rather than conquering it as the nords would.
The Forsworn are a savage and barbaric sub-culture of the Reachmen. The Reachmen themselves aren't bad by any measure, but the Forsworn are a wicked, brutal, and vindictive group. The events of ESO are thousands of years before the events of Skyrim; they are not the same peoples. There's plenty of lore in Skyrim that gives them a sympathetic light, including events in the game, but it's tainted by the Forsworn being absolute bastards and the fact that unlike ESO, Skyrim doesn't spoon-feed it to you.
In ESO you find out they were directly responsible for a potential world-ending apocalypse and indirectly aided in another one. Oh and that Molag Bal was one of their mainstay gods, their briarhearts are created using plants that feed on human sacrifices, and on top of all that they do indeed practice slavery.
In what way did ESO help their image?
@@schadenfreude3236
'Aren't bad by any measure'
My brother in Lorkhan, they worship Molag Bal, Hircine, Mehrunes Dagon and Namira. Briarheart trees are grown with mass human sacrifice.
They aided Molag Bal in the Planemeld and were directly responsible for the Ambitions of Mehrunes Dagon and the associated crisis.
The Crow-Wife Clan sacrifices a child to Namira every New Moon.
When the Longhouse Emperors were a thing, the entirety of the Reach was ruled by a Mehrunes Dagon cult trying to start the Oblivion Crisis early.
That there are a *few* Reachmen factions willing to cooperate with the player against an army of vampires and werewolves that want to kill them and are willing to entertain a truce with the gigantic multinational military confederation on their border doesn't make them *good.*
Ard Caddach from ESO is even a member of the Blackdrake Clan and was perfectly chill with the whole Mehrunes Dagon thing. He was also working with the Gray Host until they turned on him.
And he's one of the 'good' ones.
The Forsworn act just like the Reachmen of old. The difference is they've been so beaten down over the years that they're more of a nuisance than a threat.
@@Deatheater4444 - You're just attributing the sins of some to all. Nowhere does any of the lore say ALL Reachmen are guilty of these things, as it always points out specific groups that do them. I'm not willing to paint an entire minority group as evil based on that alone. And if we're counting just the worship of Molag Bal, Hircine, Dagon, and Namira as making a group evil, there's an entire province called Morrowind that would like to have a talk with you.
@@schadenfreude3236 Out of 25 named Reachmen clans, 16 of them practice human sacrifice in some way. The ones that don't are clans that have one cameo appearance as background NPCs.
It's abundantly clear the foundation is rotten from the ground up.
Ulfric slaughtered Nords who didn't help him fight the Forsworn? Gee, I wonder what he'd do to the people of Skyrim who didn't help fight the Empire 🤔
Bethesda had all this interesting lore and really said: "yep, lets just make them bandits" I sympathize heavily with the Reachmen being a native american, I can see a bit of my own culture and their plight with them
I personally don't care about the Fornsworn. Listen I was just exploring Skyrim. They attacked me. They died. Pure and simple and since they're enemies by default they will continue to die as long as I play Skyrim.
No. Nothing I heard about the Forsworn was misheard. They're lost savages on the path of ruin. Their claim to The Reach is no different than the Nords' claim on Skyrim. "-belongs to the Forsworn / -belongs to the Nords". See? No difference.
One hard truth about all of Skyrim is this: it belongs to those who take it. But perhaps that applies to all lands, does it not?
"Well, Do you have a flag?"
Lets see who gets this
No flag, no country!
And I'm backing it up with this Thu'um...
@@danielkubicek1323 All of our Emperors are a bit frumpy, aren't they?
Eddie Izzard 😍
I have a goat skull...
I'll have cake, please
Well we're all out of cake!
Blind moth.
Bro is basically my spirit animal.
This would have made such a great playable faction and many factions should have had a set of prerequisites to join. Reachmen, for instance, could have required you play as a Breton (because while technically not Bretons, the NPCs were and it makes them visually distinct from the Nord majority). It could also require that you either please Hircine, be a werebeast of some kind, or become a briarheart (which could come with a series of strengths and weaknesses perhaps like the inability to be affected by anything that heals over time or making one boosting the positive effects of potions for every negative effect it causes making them play into the alchemy skill more with the combination). ...and let's face it, an independent Markarth would make for a very different way to end the influence of the Stormcloaks or Empire in Skyrim depending on who you get to endorse your legitimacy through alliance.
I always thought it would have added so much depth to the game to have the Stormcloaks only TRULY accept you if you were a Nord. Khajiit should have remained banned from cities save for a few places where they might earn entry but could still sneak in, playing into their thieving reputation and making it really feel like you were shunned. This could be used to a lesser degree with Argonians in certain cities with Windhelm having to be careful where they went to avoid fights while also getting a "shadow scale" bonus power on joining the Dark Brotherhood. Altmer should have be able to join the Thalmor and Bosmer follow the green pact to make the gameplay far more distinct. Orcs should have had more to do in strongholds, possibly even picking one to take over and either slaughtering the others or dueling their chiefs to gain control of the Orc clans of Skyrim... maybe even taking over a city in the aftermath or constructing a grand fortress to become a player on the political stage. As a Dunmer, you could have worked to establish House Telvanni with the help of Neloth even becoming his political equal with his endorsement or join Redoran in Raven Rock. And as for Redguard, you could have maybe joined the Alik'r and gone on a number of bounty-hunting missions and securing your faction's interests in parts of Skyrim. The Empire would be accepting of all races but an Imperial might get small bonuses in the legion and thieves guild by being able to get special quests and information from certain NPCs with similar interests. I know it's a lot, but making each race feel more distinct makes players want to experience the game through the eyes of its diverse people and have your alignments majorly influence how others treat you based on their own politics. Many of the races that allow for the creation of a strong political influence could have some great tie-ins to the civil war in Skyrim and allow a shorter version of the quest to let you form a recognized power. This also could mean that any faction you join might need to contend with the others at some point if their rise seems inevitable without the player. Stopping the Orcs from rising up or the Great Houses of Morrowind from expanding might make for a great quest while siding with them might give you more allies in the final showdown between the main warring factions while also promising an uncertain future if any become more powerful. ...just a few thoughts for those who actually took the time to read all that.
Love this
Honestly, I know what they were trying to do with their aesthetic, but this is just another faction that makes no sense. They would freeze. They have the occasional tent, they have a fire or two. They barely cover themselves.
I get that it's a game, but I really wish they would throw in some extra descriptions and stuff. That would do heavy lifting in the realism department. Like, check it:
"Brr! It's freezing out, how can you nords stand to wear so little?"
"Our people are home in the cold, we suffer in the heat, but whichever God designed us made us for the snow. It doesn't freeze us. Though, the mead helps us too.."
Or something like that. I'd prefer a more scientific reason, but I get that it's fantasy, so saying they were literally designed for it, would at least make better sense than nothing
Yeah some of them are Bretons to so it don’t really make sense.
When you think you’re about to get a striptease and she pulls a sword made of an antler out on you
You should make a video on Arniel's Endeavor 🤔 I've never looked into the quest in detail and now I'd rather hear it from you :D
Funny how the "native" Reachmen only have impermanent settlements within the ancient Nordic stone cities lolz almost like the Nords came there first (after the Falmer who came after the Dwemer).
That is a very interesting point.
Or, alternately, they have been there since long before the nords, and simply haven't made a lot of permanent structures.
@@seekingabsolution1907I do feel like after the Reachmen were defeated in ancient times (I don't remember when it actually happened) that the Nords of the time would have burned the Reachmen villages down after pillaging them. So that could be a reason why the Forsworn are in semi permanent encampments as they have no actual structures to return to
Those are from Ancient Nord/Atmoran occupation
typical colonialist propaganda after you burned down native houses❤
the difference between the reachmen and the bretons is one has elf blood in their veins the other doesnt.
False.
Yeah but all reachmen are Bretons
They are the same people but one has more of the old traditions
Bretons have some Nord ancestry, Reachmen do not.
They're both descended from the human concubines of the Direnni.
@@Deatheater4444 Where in the sources did you find this?
"From the Druadarchs to the Karth!" -Some forsworn, probably.
The forsworn once lesrning of them and there back story also learning who currently ruled, i was like ok lets see them in power..nope just sits in a camp and dose nothing and the forsworn stjll attack, but honestly the paths they picked to stay around has honestly lead them being there own worst PR Ad.
3:07 incorrect the Bretons didn't even exist when the dwemer and snow elves lived in skyrim, the foresworn are all Breton. The reachmen literally killed the previous inhabitants in the reach, the Nords. Dog making a whole wrong video ironically saying what we were told was wrong lol
That's because the ancestors of reachmen were Nedes. Humans who came from Atmora long before Ysgramor. So long ago they inhabited the land when even Topal the Pilot was first exploring the lands of Tamriel.
Bretons were the result of Aldmeri Elves mixing with local humans who were already there, like the ancestors of the Foresworn were.
This is basic historical fact of Tamriel.
@@joendeo1890 there’s no mention of Nedes settling the Reach or the Reachmen being directly descended from them it’s stated that they’re closest to the Bretons, who were created by crossbreeding between Elves and Nedes during a time when the Direnni were enslaving humans, and when the Nords arrived they attacked the Elves to free the human slaves.
@knightingale9833 yes. And Bretons are just Nedes who mixed with the Direnni elves who controlled the reach for awhile. The human slaves you mentioned were Nedes. Bretons, The Forsworn, the Imperials. All are decended from various groups of Nedes.
Redguards and Nords are migrants from other continents.
Alright fine, I'll start another playthrough. Just need to finish Mass Effect again for the 30th time.
Could I be cheeky and ask what armour mod(s) you used?
Especially that opening shot?
The armor from the opening shot was armor of the old gods replacer, There's a few different variations of it And I got it on Xbox So I don't know where you'll find it on PC.
I actually really support the forsworn in all my playthroughs. Was really disappointed we never got an expansion based around them. They're essentially just relegated to quirky bandits in the video game.
Reachmen are just slightly exaggerated arch-heathens. I love them so much.
Reach has been good to me. Time to return the favor.
Go ahead, pickpocket a Briarheart and see what happens.
The forsworn lost a war boo who they practice black magic, human sacrifice, and they killed just as many innocent people. But all of a sudden when they get crushed its too far?
They sound exactly the same as the great kawns in fallout new vegas they pushed the bear and got crushed in the process..
They are an interesting faction that we couldn't join and I love to learn more of the reachmen, and maybe if Elders Scrolls 6 comes out they expanded on reachmen lore, and other cultures of Tamriel that haven't been expanded upon in the games.
Great video. I learned a lot.
The fact that the forsworn inhabit ancient nord ruins in the reach causes me to doubt that it’s their land and that the nords stole it. If the nords worshipped alduin there then its nord land mate.
I always hunted Foresworn whenever I came across them. As I did every group that performed human sacrifice or torture in the game.
A nicely made video, but a great deal rosy. The Reachmen are intractable, offering only two options to any neighbor: dominate or be dominated (including every Reachman tribe against the next). The Forsworn are of the most hideously violent brutes to be found in TES, and the fact that basically every Reachman not only quietly endorses their every action but secretly offers material support to them proves that there is little distinction to be found beyond a willingness to give up a comfortable life.
The perfect adversary.
One might say, the reach is, out of reach.
Forgot that I had playback speed at .25. I thought you were just being a weirdo.
Wtf were you doing at .25?
watching Peter griffin fall from a swing set.
Lol 😂😂
I love this comment section
Really is this how you honor the sixth house and the tribe unmorned?
Not even 7 seconds in and I have to say. I use that same armor replacer for Armor of the Old Gods
Counter point. The forsworn are gross and smelly and thus deserve to be conquered. - Turning Point Imperium.
7:15 we just call him Drake now…. 😳
Man I expected to find copper, but that was absolute gold!
I only wish they would flesh their faction out better. Too many Bethesda games have a faction exist only as fodder to kill. Sure the Reachmen have people in hiding and they have camps for war .etc but where do they live? Where are their children, if they have no home they would have no recruitment base.
At least imply the Reachmen hide their noncombatants as normal Breton villages or something.
Is there any mods that let you join them
Great video
The Reach belongs to the Forsworn!
Reminds a lot of real world people's facing colonisation, even nowadays
Well, the Reachmen are practically a caricature (at least in Skyrim) of the indigenous peoples in my opinion, it makes sense
Reddit's that way and to the left
There wouldn't be any people facing colonisation if the colonisers reset the land to factory settings 1st before settling in
@@ethanrumley746 don't care
@@HeldIntegral that's.... Wrong, and yet I can't argue
Wish this was a guild to join. I think it is in a mod but not 100% sure.
I was going to say that the account of Ulfric's take over was a bit gratuitous and unrealistic, but then I remembered that there's literally like 15-20 people living in the city all up, so it does make sense that he killed every civilian that didn't actively fight for him, lmao.
Except that litterally nobody (including the Forsworns themselves) mention any of this.
@sheogorath6834 actually one does. Braig. Madanach has you talk to him and says he was in the mines the longest besides Madanach himself. He tells you his Daughter was executed and would've been 23 by now. Madanach has been in for 20 years, Borkal for 12. This means Braig's daughter, Anthra could've been anywhere between 3-11 when her head was chopped off in front of him.
@@alphawolf7417 Ulfric was long gone when this happened. It was all on Markarth's jarl.
@sheogorath6834 either the Jarl or Thonar. Either way that story always gets to me. Not saying the Forsworn are 100% in the right, but damn i can understand why they'd hate literally everyone.
@@alphawolf7417 Pretty sure Braig says it was the Jarl, so Igmund.
I hate it when we cant freely choose stuff in sadboxy games like skyrim.
nobody told me anything about them before i had to play and find out for myself
Who's they?
Jus a humble breton,
'ate altmer,
Love me forsworn
They are not breton, it would be like calling a skall a nord, différent peoples, but with common origine
@@wolffrdu6463 yea the reachmen flay and raid and pillage Bretons just as much as they do to the Nords,
also Breton are the Orginal native of the Reach not reachmen.
Oi now they're not Bosmer!
@@CommanderM117 no, the first where the nede, the population of human both the reachman and the breton come from, and they split up because of the direni high elfs, the breton where the first to be vassal, then took over the land of the reach, then the nord fighted the direni elfs for the lands while the breton stay vassal, then breton Even fighted on the side of the direni elf and the ayleids against the nord and the allessian order (not to confuse the rebelion of allessia, the war I speak of appen after the rebelion won and was dirrected again the ayleids that sided with allessia)
@@wolffrdu6463 the breton are nede but the Reachmen are pure blood breton and Nord hybrid prior to nordic invasion of the Reach their was no reachmen only Breton and their Ayleid Subject still living, the nede stop existing aftercyrodiil unified and redguards wiped out the remaining ones in hammerfell.
as for the Alessian Order their was no nede left they either became Imperial or where wiped out by redguards, bred to death by the Direnni/Atmorans creating breton and Nords.
in theory they may have some Nedic ancetory but it not as strong as it was back before the merethic/Dawn era by the time the Atmoran arrived most need nolonger existed.
Beta reachman: "we are the true sons and daughters of the reach!!" Get it? It's like the thing you guys say! Triggered? Chad nord: fus ro dahs him off the mountain
3:41 AVE DOMINUS NOX! NIGHT LORDS MENTIONED!
Awesome
Yeah, maybe, but they worship ye powers of darknesse and up with that shit I will not put.
Good stuff
nice audio quality
skull codpiece, nice
Hello fellow moth👋
The Reach belongs to the Nords
So these plucky lads made a pact with ...the hags... And a daedra lord. Yeah, no. They're the baddies.
yes I do want to know
it's bullshit we can't play as them
I picked up on that in game
I was blown away when I learned that some reachmen actually became emperors. Although that lore came from Elder Scrolls Online. And some people feel it isnt canon.
THEY
I still view the forsworn as vermin and treat them as such.
I despise them.
Skyrim belongs to the nords!
Where to I skip to to get past the Tolkien esque description of the land itself? Not here for that
Fps in the intro was gross😂
Ulfric Stormcloak's barbaric actions against the Reachmen are the greatest condemnation of his cause. I don't know why anybody still supports him.
Simperial detected, opinion rejected
All I know is this. I'm the Forsworn's grim reaper, I've taken many forms and all have carved a bloody path across the reach.
Forsworn. Silverbloods, it doesn't honestly matter. Those who prey on the innocent, will know death's cold embrace. By sword, by spell, or by bare hand.
Yeah these people are savages so they gotta go 😂😂😂
They aren't even the original peoples of the area. They are living out of Atmoran ruins that predate the existence of Breton bloodlines by thousands of years.
Oh they're evil as hell but a cool faction
@@schadenfreude3236Bretons are atmorans. This is like saying Italians aren't native to Italy because the Romans were there first
@@averagedemocrat9546 - No, that analogy isn't even slightly correct.
Bretons are a distinct race born of Nedic people in High Rock interbreeding with Altmer. They are half-elves, several genetic steps away from their Atmoran roots. If they are native anywhere, it would be High Rock. It could be argued that Nedes, Colovians, and Nibenese people are all Atmorans as they are all of Atmoran descent, but it's made pretty clear in lore that time away from Atmora caused them to dramatically change.
Atmorans are a now-extinct race of humans straight from Atmora that were larger, stronger, and more magically-inclined than the Nords are. There's a reason a lot of powerful Merethic-era mages were Nords, such as Shalidor and the dragon priests, but modern Nords shun magic. Simple fact is that no existing group of humans are Atmoran any longer, unless there are still some that survived the frostfall in Atmora, though Third Era expeditions have pretty much ruled that out.
Roman and Italian are not races, just nationalities. Anyone who is naturalized in Italy is Italian. Anyone who became a Roman citizen was Roman. That doesn't magically make you native to Italy or Rome. Your argument would be like saying I'm English because my family came from England a hundred years ago. I'm not native to England.
Nationality does not equal race, nor does race in a fantasy world maintain any level of congruence with the real world concept of races. Orcs were Aldmer at one point, but no one with any sense considers them elves. They are completely changed. The same goes for Atmorans compared to their descendant races, even the Nords. Unlike the Nords, however, the Bretons (and thus the Reachmen) had completely abandoned Atmoran culture, beliefs, and the Reach before trying to reclaim it later.
A better comparison would be Neanderthal man. We know they existed and we know that their genetic legacy does live on in some groups, but Neanderthals themselves do not continue to exist. They were bred out of existence like the Atmorans, Nedes, and most of the Direnni elves.
Every nation and faction in TES are savages to your soft, pink world view
I've said for years that the Forsworn are, by a wide margin, the closest we've ever come to getting a non-Evil faction in an Elder Scrolls game.
the roleplay narration with that nerd emoji accent sure is a choice
i like it he sounds like virgil
“Nerd emoji accent” is one of the most insane things I’ve ever read. How does someone have an emoji accent?!
Free palestine 🇵🇸
The Bretons of the Reach were and will always be the actual true people of Skyrim. The Nords were not there first
From the karth to the mountains, the reach will be free
nords are the palestinians. foresworn pray to molag, israelis to moloch.
Lemme check my sympathy bag: Nope. Sorry. Nothing.
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