If the others and wights do act as a hive mind, then it would make sense to have a central queen behind them. The concept of an ant colony or a beehive with a central queen is one that is pretty well established in the public consciousness.
Ive been leaning towards the nights queen being an icy counterpart to Mel for a while and the Seastar theory sounds pretty interesting. I just want to know what shes doing with all those sheep when newborns arent available.
Agreed, the sheep are very odd. It could be like take them as a promise of more sons soon, or they could be feeding some humans they have captive... or they actually eat things which would also be wild... Maybe the Night's Queen or Shiera likes mutton lol
My guesses on that are 1) blood is blood and baby>sheep>nothing and/or 2) it keeps up the practice and habit of yielding valuable resources to the Others to retain the "muscle memory" as it were.
The mouths of the trees will hold the babies like a womb. The tree will consume their energy for projecting another frost shadow. The tree is the female energy. Especially if female singers are already merged with the tree.
You see what you did?! Reading ASoS, Jon VII "...the great wooden switchback stair that clawed and climbed its way up the face of the Wall like a drunken thunderbolt, supported by wooden beams as big as TREE TRUNKS DRIVEN DEEP INTO THE ICE" I could not read this and NOT think of your theory. I blame you lmao
Have you gotten to the part where as they climb the wall and they talk about how it felt like the wall is trying to shake them off. Then talk about how it is made o blood. Then find it did shake off one of the wildlings and they find he had fallen and his body was impaled onto a tree... I really don't even think it is me, I think it is GRRM doing this stuff so when we re-read after he reveals it all these stand out haha
I feel like Shirea isn’t involved with blood raven bcuz when he explains to bran about time travel that he’s tried to talk to his brothers and lover but he couldn’t
So I had many thoughts and questions that once I figured out the wall thing and the whole system kinda clicked together it just answered like 50 questions I had. Then before the series started there was like a month or two of lining up bullet points and little things to talk about and then there have been a lot of good comments and things I have noticed since then that add even more things to cover. The more I looked at the books with this perspective the more that clicked and the series grew. A lot of the time I am just looking at the books with this wall and old gods magic system in my head and suddenly things make more sense everywhere I look and the theories write themselves. Like this one just writes itself on some levels if you look at the others as shadows cast from the weirwoods and just combine what GRRM has told us about how shadows are made with the fact that someone wants male babies. So a lot of this comes from like a decade of talking about these books not on youtube and now I just get to throw it all out there for you guys to see if it holds up.
If we theorize that Shiera Seastar is making Others from Craster's sons then she is only the latest person to occupy that role. The Others seem to exist in the historical and/or mythical record long before her birth. I just don't like the idea of the threat of the North being a person, as opposed to a supernatural/ecological imbalance that must be remedied or brought back into balance. If the source of the Others is an anti-Melisandre, then our characters can just kill her. Arya can jump in screaming and knife her with a valyrian steel dagger.
Great stuff as usual! As a morally dubious magic-using LCotNW, Bloodraven is very Night's King-esque. (Also wanted to let you know that about a month ago Girl Nettles & I namedropped you and briefly discussed "Nettles is Old Nan" on her stream about dragonbreeding.)
I think theyve either been making more wights or using the babies for magic. Craster thinks he is making a deal with the others, not realising he is just a producer for them to prepare for their war. I dont think they have any real agreement, they just wont kill craster if hes giving them what they want, which will end up with his death after he has armed the others
This is an adjacent topic, but since he was mentioned I think it's appropriate to ask...do you think Bloodraven and the three-eyed crow are one in the same, or different people entirely? I think they're different but I've heard good arguments supporting both sides of the theory. Anyway, great video as usual Michael!
I am not firmly one way or the other. I think the crow is most likely either the collective weirwood hive mind or it is time Bran, because of Bran meaning crow. So if it is bloodraven then it is him by the fact that he is the greenseer active at the head of this hive mind currently. I kinda like the idea of older Bran being the one who sets things in motion for himself but TBH I think GRRM could go either way with it. Also if the crow is the hive mind of the weirwoods and future Bran gets linked up to that it could be that both of those are the same thing... TBH once you get into hive minds these lines between same person and different get fuzzy haha So I think I am roughly in the same spot as you, having heard both sides make convincing points and I don't have anything that sways me fully one way or the other yet.
and it's funny how the first wight we see (in the pilot) is a child strapped up on a tree... in any other way doesnt make sense why she's hanging there except as a foreshadowing....
These are getting less likely as they go on lol....the text seems pretty clear. The Others might have originally been created through some blood magic ritual at a weirwood, but nowadays they can be created using human babies. Kinda like how a knight can make someone else a knight.
8:04 The Children of the Forest killed the weir wood tree making the Night King. Again we are seeing this through Blood Raven/3 eyed Raven’s point of view which I believe is an edited lie. My prediction is that eventually we will come back to this moment and see the truth that this man was OG Jon Snow. Jon has the same scars now on his chest.
Agreed. I do sort of sympathize with the show runners a little more realizing how much you need to be in the characters heads to make sense of things and how tough that would have been. I still wish they had tried and did things differently, but I think GRRM did say his story would be tough to adapt if not impossible before the show had ever been a thing
This is definitely interesting. If so, it would help justify why the bizarre Craster character exists in the story, as a parallel to help understand a fundamental mechanic of the Others.
Interesting how light and life are paired together, shadow presumably being paired with, in George's own words, 'another type of life' or something like that i.e. the shadows and the others. The life of the shadows are just that, a shadow of the being who is being illuminated by the light of life
I feel like there's a damn good chance that bloodRaven is going to try to possess or warg into Bran to have a younger body... Now whether bran is too strong for him to do that or not remains to be seen but I feel like that's gonna be attempted.
I pretty much agree and I'm pretty sure its going to be left ambiguous, to run parallel to Arya's story. All three of the "main" Stark kids currently have benefactors that they are learning from and will eventually have to overcome in order to get what they want instead of what their "master" wants. Sansa will have to overcome Littlefinger, Bran will have to overcome Bloodraven, and Arya will have to overcome the faceless men. However with Bran and Arya we won't be sure if its them or their benefactor pretending. I'm more or less in the camp that a small group of Others use the form of skinchanging Bran does to just change bodies in order to cheat death. It runs with the show version that the other was just warging the baby to leave his old body for a new one. It also explains why Jaqen H'ghar was sent to Westeros in the first place and why he was headed north. There are some people up north cheating the many faced god and he was dispatched to investigate.
@@pokeman5000 that's a pretty good theory ... I always felt like the long night was triggered because it had something to do with that starts this and obviously the starts lost winterfell also so that kind of contributed .... But that doesn't come out much either that there was no Stark in winterfell for a good long time... Obviously the walkers were active before that but also that comet seems to have brought magic back into the world... And that was just like a lineup of things to happen there was about to be no Stark in winterfell The colony came from magic into the world then Dion took it and the kids went off and then boom everything lined up perfectly
@@Rebel_Lord_Taron The comet gets interpreted for A LOT of things lol. It's mostly a literary device for GRRM to show how every religion, superstition. and cult had their own interpretation of it. There really are only 3 confirmed sources of magic. Ice: Weirwoods/Others/Greenseers. Fie: Dragons/Valyrians/Melisandre + Thoros, and finally faith/belief in magic: "Power resides where men believe it resides, it's a trick. a SHADOW on a wall." Ergo, people believe there is power in blood (rituals, sacrifices, blood oaths) so because they believe that it does, it does. The comet falls in the 3rd category in my opinion. It made the superstitious more fanatical, and the skeptical more open to the idea of "What if?" For the long night we really can't be sure. George just hasn't written enough material on the subject besides it definitely happened at some point in the ancient past. But even that is opened for interpretation because the people in Yi Ti believe the Bloodstone emperor caused it by worshiping a black stone meteor.
The ol' "Reverse Craster"....gets 'em every time ;) I've been hoping we'd get to see their edgy, emo teen years at White Walker High School for the Dark Arts, but it seems like they might age-up too quickly to get many angsty hijinks. However, I like to image at leas a few coming of age, John Hughes movie moments. The fact that all of Craster's sons are products of ever increasing degrees of incest means his blood is very "special" for some reason, but why? What it is it about Craster's seed (ewwww), and how did he, or the Others, ever learn of its power? He also hasn't been doing it forever either 20-30 years tops, so he's fairly "new to the game", unless he inherited the position somehow. Again, why him/his line? He seems pretty ordinary, for the most part. For all his creepiness, he nonetheless "served the Old Gods faithfully" and seems to have been as much of a "victim of fate", as anyone. He is "bound" by duty, custom, magic to his place, every bit as much as Bloodraven, or the Sentinals in the Wall. All "prisoners in the North", so to speak. There's clearly a very specific "formula" at work to make a WW, and it seems like they only started making this "batch" of WWs fairly recently in anticipation of the events we now read about in the books. I'm not sure how we could learn about that sort of lore though. The WWs don't seem very chatty and I doubt they wrote much down. My only guess would be Marwyn(?), but even that seems unlikely. Sure could use that new book, GRRM..... Cheers!
I think if we are going to get any real details about this magic and how it works it has to come Via seeing things in the Mel POV. She is the only one imo capable of figuring it out in her own head without a convo with the others or something, which as you say they aren't the most chatty bunch. Also with Craster I could see his set up there being a result of either bloodraven's meddling (if he is behind this in some way he could have instructed the plan) or if not bloodraven's fault I could see it just being a case of Craster is uniquely terrible as a person and willing to do this thing where as others just aren't. But that leaves the question of how he learned to do it in the first place. It could be just some creepy mostly forgotten old gods thing I suppose. That is how Craster himself talks about it. He acts cocky about his godliness like he is the only religious one who still worships properly.
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff The name "Craster" has always kinda-sorta struck me as an anagram of sorts for "Stark" = "Starc(er)" = "Craster", but it's a stretch. All those harsh, Germanic sounds seem to be associated with "Northern" peoples. It may simply be a play on the word "crass", as well. I suppose. The main "issue" seems to be the timing. How do they go from newborn to full-grown, badass, WWs so quickly? "They just do cuz magic" seems kind of weak. Everything takes at least a little time to grow/mature, even Ice Zombies, presumably. The "children" of the Forest are some of the oldest beings we've met. Why would they "need" babies, if they didn't want to "raise" them in a particular manner? I hope Mel drinks a little extra vision juice to get us some answers. Cheers!
@karlkarsnark regarding the "why Craster", I think the answer is special king's blood. There's a decent theory that Craster is Maester Aemon's son (from the famous line, "What is honor compared to a woman’s love? What is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms..." and other context clues). If true, this which would give Craster's sons kings blood, and specifically the special blood formula we often talk about with the prince who was promised line: Dayne/Targaryen blood from Aemon and first men blood from the Craster's mother who came from Whitetree village.
@@abigail6873 Ah-ha! That makes a lot of sense. His "fiery" Targ blood being converted to "ice" is very much in theme with the book itself. I would've never suspected Maester Aemon had a "tryst", but we were all young once, I suppose. "I dreamed I was old, Egg." Although, I hate the idea of such a rotten "bastard" as Craster coming from Aemon alone. There must be some "Other", corrupting influence, or event along the way to make him get so creepy. Maybe Aemon "Made a Deal with the Devils" to protect the Night's Watch/buy them some time by offering "tribute" in the form of the babies. Whatever blood he has is obviously very special and has to be kept extra "pure". Hence, the incest. Does that mean the more inbred babies are more "powerful", or less, I wonder? Cheers!
@@KarlKarsnark Agreed, I was opposed to the theory that someone like Craster could come from someone like Aemon when I first heard it. I even considered the other Targ he could've come from - Bloodraven. But, given the context that Aemon had a newborn son and the tragedy in his story of duty vs. love, it makes sense that he had a son, though I hope he never knew the monster that his son became. I love the additional symbolic analysis you added! Regarding the power of the inbred babies, I'd imagine that they're at the same potency or possibly more powerful, depending upon whether the "power" comes from a recessive or dominant trait and if Craster preferred (ugh) his more Targ-looking daughters.
So this idea about a reverse craster. Or ultimate other mother, curse hearth, shadowy valley and killing waters. What if this ultimate dameoncabula lady is harvesting the boys like the Vincent price movie a boy and his dog? That movie is a horror classic with a telepathic dog, post apocalypse and sacred seed. I bet George saw it.
Yeah that line is the one that makes me most doubt Shiera would still be involved. He does say it in the context of he couldn't reach their past selves and change the past, but the way it is said kinda implies they are no longer in contact in the present either. I think it is written where if Shiera did come back and was in some present contact with bloodraven it wouldn't go fully against what he said. But it could be read as Shiera is gone now because he speaks of her in past tense.
The way it all reads to me is-Mel IS the Night's Queen, whatever that really means. THAT'S why her magic is so much more powerful at the Wall than anywhere else in the world. She was totally OK with staying at the Wall when Stannis leaves. Before she was NOT happy about being left behind by him. -I think Mel is being tricked somewhat. She is tricking herself, for sure. In text, the only person who makes me think of an "opposite" to Mel; Val. Mel reminds Jon of Igrytte-Dany will remind Jon of Val. When I started watching this video, I thought "reverse Craster" was going to be about Varymyr lol. But anyways-the way it all seems to me is that we def should notice the lack of female Others. Craster only gives his sons over, the attack on Waymar and co.-The Others are ALL male, so far. I can't tell 100%, but the fact that they are "twins" of a sort make me think THOSE were some of Craster's sons. And that's why these Others are "recentish" to the storyline. Before the opening of the books, The Others have been "gone" for a LONG ass time. And it is only "recentlyish" that whytes have started being made and attacking-Osha's story about her husband, the mass fleeing, etc. We hear that they have been "sleeping" or that they have "returned"; lil bits here and there. The Wildlings seem to know wtf is going on tho-Mance sends an envoy to Craster to invite him to join him. NOT something Mance is going to do lightly KNOWING that Craster is giving his son's to Others. And Mance DOES know. Even Ygritte knew about Craster's black blood and his curse. They invite him anyways-the implication is that they feel bad for Craster. The implication is that Craster was forced into the role he is in now. Even his mother seemed to know what was in store for Craster if he stayed North of the Wall. She begs the watch to take him-they refused. THAT is really weird to me, that they refused to take Craster. The watch should have taken Craster, was my impression-if that baby had been any boy BUT Craster, the watch would take him. Craster is one of THEIR bastards and thru Mance we know that they take lil boys North of the Wall-something is off with Craster from birth, and The Watch Commander knew what was up. Craster's mother is from White Tree. THAT tree reminds me of Ygg the Demon Tree from Iron Born stories. The people of WhiteTree were feeding that Weirwood. And it's face...wtf? BOTH trees remind me of the Tree in the Wall that Bran and co. pass thru. The one Sam, Gilly and Baby Monster come thru. Maybe not all, but def some of those trees are f00ked up in the EXTREME. Some of The watch knows that too-when Qoran tells Jeor that the trees have eyes again? He wasn't saying that in a good way. The Trees are waking and The Others, too, is what is sounds like he is saying. I feel like Qoron somehow sees the Trees and The Others as part of the same thing in a way that stands out in text. The Iron Born were not entirely wrong to hate those trees. I'm guessing that the IB were some of the first people that were fed to trees, if not THE first. The North might worship them, and some have nicer faces, but something is WRONG with the efin trees. Just like something is WRONG with Craster giving his sons to Others, but is lowkey accepted by wildlings and a few in the know at The Wall. He sees them as "offerings to the Gods." NO different than feeding people to man eating trees, really. What Crater has been doing is accepted. It has happened before...so Jon's reaction to Craster? I Consider THAT the first real step in ending the Long Night, in a way. And accelerating it. The Long Night is already here by this time. When the Iron Born kill Ygg the Demon Tree? They felt the same way about doing THAT as Jon feels about stopping Craster. That shit with Iron Born and their hatred for the Trees started something like this exact shit before. Who really is the "bad" guy here? Craster? The Watch? The Others? The Wildlings that all knew? Craster is an asshole. But I really get the feeling of ALL the assholes in text so far-he was truly created. Craster tried-he never stood a chance in a world that refused to help him. Could he have STILL been a "better" person? I don't know-I think he was probably as good of a person as he could be, playing the shithand he was left with. Craster is an asshole to the Watch-but te fact that he helps them at all is kind of wondrous considering how they rejected him and his mom and how The Watch treated his mom, etc. All together, the text makes me think that when we meet Craster, when Jon meets Craster-at THAT time Craster IS being the BEST person he can be AND keep his "family" alive. He isn't "evil" because he is lazy or because he wants to be-he has never had ANYTHING but shit choices. Anyone who could/should have helped Craster instead only helped to force him into what he was. I do not like Craster-he was bad to his daughters. VERY bad-he may have no choice about the sons, I can fully undertsand his hatred for almost everyone, really and truly. He gets NO empathy there. Pretty sure thats where any reader feeling bad for Craster is supposed to draw the line. Anyways, Baby monster, Craster's rescued son, is at the Wall. With Mel. And Craster's Son are Coming. But are his sons the Same Others we meet with Waymar? Some of his sons are going to be grown by now, if they age naturally before being "changed." We don't even know if Craster's sons are being changed at all yet-but it is likely that they are allowed to age naturally before whatever happens to them, happens, since I haven't read ANYWHERE about actual Other Chidrens. Some of Crasters son could very well be human boys and toddlers at this time. The Night's King/Queen was doing the SAME thing with babies-giving them over. THOSE babies are the same as Craster's sons. What else is going on in Westeros when the Night's King/Queen shit goes down at the Wall? Basically that same shit is happening again right NOW, with variations. The Night King/Lord Commander first sees Night Queen from his place on the wall. Then he goes to her. He is not afraid. Mel is at the wall, and is going to be seen by their King...and be taken. Or she sees him and goes to him. Just like those two love-birds from the original Night's Queen/King story. Either way, If Mel goes beyond The Wall for any distance/time I am pretty sure that The Others will take her. Mel is going to be stupid and "not afraid." When Mel and Mirri summon shadows, they have to use/drain something living to do it. That's why Mel can't make another shadow with Stannis. I am not sure The Others CAN summon shadows. But it reads to me Like Mel could bring forth shadows all day long with those guys. They can't do th shit without her for some reason. They would be through the Wall if they had access to, or capabilty of, that kind of magic on their own. To me, it feels like the Others DO have some kind of plan in the works. Rescuing Craster's last son has f00ked that up a bit somehow, maybe-they WANT him back, it looks like, right? See, the thing with Mel and her shadows that is for sure-her shadows can pass thru magical wall/barriers, once SHE is there. It has happened twice. Mel KNOWS that the shadows she brings forth at the wall will be terrible, powerful etc. So do The Others, pretty sure-they are SO powerful that a lot of Wildlings see them as Gods. They know what Mel is and what she can do. If Mel has shadows at the Wall, I really get the impression THAT is going to be BAD for the side of the Living. I really think The Others are looking for exploits in the Wall so that They can pass. They have no way to bring it down on their own-or if they do, they do not want to use it. But they sent those whytes thru as dead Brothers-and they sent a person thru with the wildlings-that's the implication of why Waymar's broken sword is back. They are trying to find a way through for themselves, not just their whytes. Mel needs to get the f00k away from that wall and take Baby Monster with her. SHE and that baby need to go to Winterfell NOW. Can you be a Queen, if you are already a God? Queen seems such a tiny thing, when compared or even combined. Like trying to focus on a diamond chip in a crown of jewels. Major Twist!-Celise gets taken by The Others and SHE becomes The Night's Queen! Now we know why GRRM didn't just kill her off in child birth! She becomes the Queen she has always desired to be-a Queen who can birth an army of imortal Sons for her King!!!!!
Saw a theory that Maester Aemon is Craster's father. So both targaryen King and Kin of the Dragon. Perhaps mated with greenseer/skinchanger to control the wights. Making the babies targaryen/stark bastards inbred. They are frozen fire right?
@@kmook76 OK-Here is where it gets complicated a bit. I THINK one of the things that makes Craster's blood 'unique' is that he is likely Pure Blood First Men. AND something more. I don't know if he can still be pure blood with Aemon as his father. It is more likely that Craster's father was Blood Raven. For some reason, the Blackwoods AND Brackens both single out females here and there from their families. THOSE females are SPECIAL. BR's mother was one of those women. There is still something missing, tho-the implication of Craster's confidence of survival IS his blood-his First Man blood. The Others, because of the Pact, cannot kill pure blood First Men. THAT is how I read it to be in the books. Craster KNOWS he is pure blood and CANNOT be killed by The Others. Craster KNOWS he is 'good' with the 'gods.' THAT is what he means when he says that. Craster saying that and KNOWING he is going to be ok-and the fact that Gerrod gets a free walk from The Others after they kill Waymar and Will...and a few other things all tell me that no matter who else they can kill, The Others CANNOT kill pure blood First Men.
When this series started, I thought you were totally insane. Now I think you're still insane but coincidences can only happen so many times before its no longer a coincidence.
I'm not presenting it as a more likely scenario. I'd just like to suggest we take what we think about Crastor with a grain of salt. There is something very weird about one of the things he does. He sacrificed his sheep. Maybe this is something the Others would find worthy, but it seems odd to me. Sacrificing animals doesn't seem very valuable to magic most of the time. Contrast that against the lack of sons, and I get the impression Crastor is a massive mislead. I just ask people to consider his sons secretly live together away from his keep. The quote you use says the sons come when the cold does, which could mean they come to defend their mother/sisters. Sons not living in his keep might need his sheep if there's less game in forest, which explains the sheep. He could he leaving his infant sons with their brothers to be raised by them. The point in the story where this threat is made is after the fight in his Keep. Once they've learned of Crastor's death very human sons would be just as likely to come for revenge. Crastor gains a lot of fear/respect from rumours about him. Even if his younger daughters do in fact believe their brothers are the Others, they have a massive reason not to run away from his Keep. However, there is yet another possibility I think should be considered. Crastor's Keep seems protected from the Others. Our primary interpretation is that they accept gifts to stay away. But what if they CAN'T get to him? What if he's actually giving them to Coldhands to be delivered to the CotF? What if it's the same magic protecting their cave that's protecting Crastor? I'm not saying these are more or less likely. I just get the feeling GRRM is trying really hard with Crastor to mislead us. As to Shiera. I understand why and where you're going with the eye colour, but as with Rickon I think most people are missing a more common symbolism. Blue/green is a Tourmaline. Renly, Rickon, and Shiera all the youngest of their lines and all heavy with Tourmaline symbolism. There is a significant Tourmaline pattern in the book that few give much notice. It's strongly timed to birth order and usually tied to someone with green magic connection. I would expect her to be involved in a narrative similar to Renly and Rickon, perhaps even Damphair. It's an interesting topic.
The weirwoods using humans as a powersource makes sense, but I think the Others behave too independently to be captives of the children. I believe they came from the far side of Essos, and may have originally been created by the Bloodstone Emperor as a weapon or experiment that has now become an independent race. I also think Euron may be in contact with them.
What if he is a necessary part of white walker creation. Possibly blood relation to the first created white walker. Who possibly was a stark of winterfell. Or just lived in proximity to a weirwood tree. Point to make craster is a prisoner and has given up trying to save his sons from being taken.
I think you are missing a big point comparing shadow babies and it is the most obvious. Stannis could have sex that is how Melisandre took in his essence. My theory why the Night King NEEDS Craster is because the Night King has been castrated. Craster - Castrate it's almost an anagramme. My Castration theory is that any main character that has been castrated is because of one reason. It was done to ensure their line ends with them and therefore their line could not inherit from the family. Since kin slaying is a mortal sin there are only two ways to get rid of a family member. The first is to send them to the Wall as in the case of Sam. His father wanted to make his heir his second son so he gave him a choice of sending him to the wall or meeting with a hunting accident. Sam's father was too superstitious to kill him outright. Two men from Winterfell have been sent to the Wall Benjen and Jon. Their first conversation was about fatherhood because being sent to the Wall castrates a man, as they are not allowed to have heirs or own property. So why did Ned send both the the Wall? Jon only wanted to go because Benjen was there. The second way to deal with an unwanted family line is to physically castrate the offending male. Yes, I believe that Varys's castration wasn't random, and particularly that man was paid a small fortune. Another theory for another day but I think that Kevan Lannister was Varys's father and unbeknownst to Varys he committed kin slaying. I think we will eventually find out who was really behind Theon's castration. All this to say that I think the Night King was accidentally made immortal 8:04 and to try and make up for their mistake he was castrated. I think the old lady is actually Craster's mother and he had his first children with her when he was still a child. Then he had children with his daughters, then his granddaughter. I suspect that Gilly is his great-great-great-granddaughter. Here is where Melisandre made a HUGE MISTAKE. She either misheard or misread "there is a power in kinG's blood" I believe the actual phrase is "there is a power in kin'S blood" Which in fact is not too far-fetched because it is the basis of the Targaryen dynasty and their attachment to dragons. The only other family that has an attachment to a wild beast is the Starks. My big theory is that when the children created the Night King their mistake was that they hadn't factored in that the Night King was birth from kin's blood because of the lies told about his parentage. However, the power was such that it KILLED the weir wood 8:04 !!! So Craster's sons are not shadow babies. The Night King is just using him and his daughters as surrogates. The sons must be born from kin's blood because the Night King was born of Kin's blood. I know everyone is locked in on R+L=J which I believe is so wrong on so many levels least of which Jon doesn't have one trait of the Targaryens. Also, even Catelyn says he is more Stark than her own children. Lastly, Jon and Dany are supposed to be polar opposites Danny's parents are brother and sister and I do believe so are Jon's.. B+L=J
It seems the first chapter of ASOIAF indicates the Others are looking for a certain man - Benjen? Jon?. A grown man would be a much better source of male energy than a heap of baby boys. But that will have to do for now. Of course maybe they raise them to manhood first before they strap them to trees and (ahem) create shadows with them then and Michael won't have to let Ice Shadow Mama Shierra strap him up after all and we can keep enjoying his theories. Dude she's no good for you!
Yeah I didn't think of it for this video until after but in this context that could very much be where Benjen ended up... Strapped up to a weirwood grove birthing others possibly against his will
I hate that they (D&D) just used the others as a ‘keep watching to find out’ and then never telling us. 😑 I think Shiera Seastar makes sense to be the ‘nights queen’ or Melisandre’s opposite. I never thought about it like this. I love your theories. Thank you. 😊
well if they spoiled everything why buy the final two books. I doubt George even told them everything. Danny burns more stuff, Bran becomes king and Hodor were definitely revealed to them , iirc all 3 said this in interviews.
@@HisameArtwork okay that’s all Fine. But if they can spoil the rest, why not the white walkers too? But we know why, because they didnt know what to do with it. Just liked the shocking aspect of it. Just like they didn’t know what to do with Bering Dondarion either. They should’ve passed this show off to writers that still cared about the story. Hit their ego didn’t let them. And now we are left with theories, and probably will Never read the final book if we even get WoW. 🤷🏼♀️
I still think that the Others are each of the 19 men nailed to the weirwood trees at the Wall. If they were repopulating with Craster's sons there should be a lot more than what is ever shown. Considering some may die in childbirth and m/f is roughly equal, he has a LOT more daughters than the number of Others. There are 19 forts on the Wall spaced roughly 14 miles apart (or 7x2?). If each were to spawn a shadow then there would be 19 Others. The Night's King is just the one that is associated with the Nightfort but is not overly special in any way. I don't think the books claim that the Night's King is one of the White Walkers, but he may be the one nailed to the tree after Joramund's Horn brought that part of the wall down and the previous person nailed to the tree was killed. There is evidence of a similar thing in the story of the slaves of Valyria. One slave wished for death and the first No One of the Faceless Men killed him. The "Stark" associated with being the Night's King had his name erased from record making him into a "no one". Btw, "killing" an walking Other with dragonglass or Valyrian steel simply causes the frozen eggshell to be shattered but does nothing to the spirit within. Given enough time it will collect more ambient ice and return. No one ever sticks around long enough to find this out. These weapons' special quality is that they merely resist the super cold that shatters normal steel. Only by killing the men nailed to the trees will the walking Others be stopped. But they cannot be reached thru all the ice. Thus, the Horn of Winter is needed and why it's made clear that Sam is taking this horn with him wherever he goes. When Jon blew the horn it failed to make a horn sound but that doesn't mean it is broken. That could be it's use: To amplify the air passing through it as a megaphone to penetrate the Wall and command the trees to rise up and shake off the ice. Only person we know who can speak to trees is Howland Reed, but maybe Joramund could as well and helped the Night's King (aka No One) to kill one of the Others. When the trunks are exposed the men can be killed by the Faceless Men which very well could end up being Arya as she becomes No One.
Do Shiera Seastar Bloodraven and Bittersteel actually have a love triangle cuz I think she doesn’t fw Bittersteel at all but then why is Bloodraven jealous over some dude his girl doesn’t like is he just a total wuss 😭
I think that you go to far in trying to back-port things from the show to the books, and assuming that all magic works rge same, or even that George has thought through how it works. Just because one of his wives calls the others the "boys brothers" doesnt mean they are, just that it is what she believes. If this ritual was so integral to the religion of the first men, surely we would see other wildlings doing similiar, but we dont. Craster exposes his sons because, were they to grow up, they would threaten the stability of his household. The boys die of cold, and i see no reason in the books to suppose otherwise. Things that D&D seemingly made up dont factor into my thinking on the matter
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If the others and wights do act as a hive mind, then it would make sense to have a central queen behind them. The concept of an ant colony or a beehive with a central queen is one that is pretty well established in the public consciousness.
It's almost impressive to make Tywin look like a good father but Craster pulls it off with depraved aplomb
Ive been leaning towards the nights queen being an icy counterpart to Mel for a while and the Seastar theory sounds pretty interesting. I just want to know what shes doing with all those sheep when newborns arent available.
Agreed, the sheep are very odd. It could be like take them as a promise of more sons soon, or they could be feeding some humans they have captive... or they actually eat things which would also be wild... Maybe the Night's Queen or Shiera likes mutton lol
My guesses on that are 1) blood is blood and baby>sheep>nothing and/or 2) it keeps up the practice and habit of yielding valuable resources to the Others to retain the "muscle memory" as it were.
@@michaeltalksaboutstuffI’ve always thought the sheep were for an ice dragon. Consider Sheepstealer and Nettles. ✨
It's weird there either offered FOOD or babies.
@@jsizemore1449 how so? Makes more sense to me than it being subbed for some sort of trade or material goods
The mouths of the trees will hold the babies like a womb. The tree will consume their energy for projecting another frost shadow. The tree is the female energy. Especially if female singers are already merged with the tree.
You see what you did?! Reading ASoS, Jon VII "...the great wooden switchback stair that clawed and climbed its way up the face of the Wall like a drunken thunderbolt, supported by wooden beams as big as TREE TRUNKS DRIVEN DEEP INTO THE ICE"
I could not read this and NOT think of your theory. I blame you lmao
Have you gotten to the part where as they climb the wall and they talk about how it felt like the wall is trying to shake them off. Then talk about how it is made o blood. Then find it did shake off one of the wildlings and they find he had fallen and his body was impaled onto a tree...
I really don't even think it is me, I think it is GRRM doing this stuff so when we re-read after he reveals it all these stand out haha
I think this makes a lot of sense. It makes me think of Dany’s story and the babies being nailed to posts
I feel like Shirea isn’t involved with blood raven bcuz when he explains to bran about time travel that he’s tried to talk to his brothers and lover but he couldn’t
I love how often you post idk how it's even possible, did you write all these theories a long time ago?
So I had many thoughts and questions that once I figured out the wall thing and the whole system kinda clicked together it just answered like 50 questions I had. Then before the series started there was like a month or two of lining up bullet points and little things to talk about and then there have been a lot of good comments and things I have noticed since then that add even more things to cover. The more I looked at the books with this perspective the more that clicked and the series grew.
A lot of the time I am just looking at the books with this wall and old gods magic system in my head and suddenly things make more sense everywhere I look and the theories write themselves. Like this one just writes itself on some levels if you look at the others as shadows cast from the weirwoods and just combine what GRRM has told us about how shadows are made with the fact that someone wants male babies.
So a lot of this comes from like a decade of talking about these books not on youtube and now I just get to throw it all out there for you guys to see if it holds up.
If we theorize that Shiera Seastar is making Others from Craster's sons then she is only the latest person to occupy that role. The Others seem to exist in the historical and/or mythical record long before her birth.
I just don't like the idea of the threat of the North being a person, as opposed to a supernatural/ecological imbalance that must be remedied or brought back into balance. If the source of the Others is an anti-Melisandre, then our characters can just kill her. Arya can jump in screaming and knife her with a valyrian steel dagger.
Great stuff as usual! As a morally dubious magic-using LCotNW, Bloodraven is very Night's King-esque.
(Also wanted to let you know that about a month ago Girl Nettles & I namedropped you and briefly discussed "Nettles is Old Nan" on her stream about dragonbreeding.)
Nice, I will have to give that a watch! Thanks for letting me know
I think theyve either been making more wights or using the babies for magic. Craster thinks he is making a deal with the others, not realising he is just a producer for them to prepare for their war. I dont think they have any real agreement, they just wont kill craster if hes giving them what they want, which will end up with his death after he has armed the others
This is an adjacent topic, but since he was mentioned I think it's appropriate to ask...do you think Bloodraven and the three-eyed crow are one in the same, or different people entirely? I think they're different but I've heard good arguments supporting both sides of the theory. Anyway, great video as usual Michael!
I am not firmly one way or the other. I think the crow is most likely either the collective weirwood hive mind or it is time Bran, because of Bran meaning crow. So if it is bloodraven then it is him by the fact that he is the greenseer active at the head of this hive mind currently.
I kinda like the idea of older Bran being the one who sets things in motion for himself but TBH I think GRRM could go either way with it. Also if the crow is the hive mind of the weirwoods and future Bran gets linked up to that it could be that both of those are the same thing... TBH once you get into hive minds these lines between same person and different get fuzzy haha
So I think I am roughly in the same spot as you, having heard both sides make convincing points and I don't have anything that sways me fully one way or the other yet.
and it's funny how the first wight we see (in the pilot) is a child strapped up on a tree... in any other way doesnt make sense why she's hanging there except as a foreshadowing....
These are getting less likely as they go on lol....the text seems pretty clear. The Others might have originally been created through some blood magic ritual at a weirwood, but nowadays they can be created using human babies. Kinda like how a knight can make someone else a knight.
8:04 The Children of the Forest killed the weir wood tree making the Night King.
Again we are seeing this through Blood Raven/3 eyed Raven’s point of view which I believe is an edited lie. My prediction is that eventually we will come back to this moment and see the truth that this man was OG Jon Snow. Jon has the same scars now on his chest.
I think books like asoiaf should be animated shows as that medium is better for these type of in brain monologues
Agreed. I do sort of sympathize with the show runners a little more realizing how much you need to be in the characters heads to make sense of things and how tough that would have been. I still wish they had tried and did things differently, but I think GRRM did say his story would be tough to adapt if not impossible before the show had ever been a thing
This is definitely interesting. If so, it would help justify why the bizarre Craster character exists in the story, as a parallel to help understand a fundamental mechanic of the Others.
Interesting how light and life are paired together, shadow presumably being paired with, in George's own words, 'another type of life' or something like that i.e. the shadows and the others. The life of the shadows are just that, a shadow of the being who is being illuminated by the light of life
I feel like there's a damn good chance that bloodRaven is going to try to possess or warg into Bran to have a younger body... Now whether bran is too strong for him to do that or not remains to be seen but I feel like that's gonna be attempted.
Kinda reminiscent of the house of the undying- that's interesting
I pretty much agree and I'm pretty sure its going to be left ambiguous, to run parallel to Arya's story. All three of the "main" Stark kids currently have benefactors that they are learning from and will eventually have to overcome in order to get what they want instead of what their "master" wants. Sansa will have to overcome Littlefinger, Bran will have to overcome Bloodraven, and Arya will have to overcome the faceless men. However with Bran and Arya we won't be sure if its them or their benefactor pretending.
I'm more or less in the camp that a small group of Others use the form of skinchanging Bran does to just change bodies in order to cheat death. It runs with the show version that the other was just warging the baby to leave his old body for a new one. It also explains why Jaqen H'ghar was sent to Westeros in the first place and why he was headed north. There are some people up north cheating the many faced god and he was dispatched to investigate.
@@pokeman5000 that's a pretty good theory ... I always felt like the long night was triggered because it had something to do with that starts this and obviously the starts lost winterfell also so that kind of contributed .... But that doesn't come out much either that there was no Stark in winterfell for a good long time... Obviously the walkers were active before that but also that comet seems to have brought magic back into the world... And that was just like a lineup of things to happen there was about to be no Stark in winterfell The colony came from magic into the world then Dion took it and the kids went off and then boom everything lined up perfectly
@@Rebel_Lord_Taron The comet gets interpreted for A LOT of things lol. It's mostly a literary device for GRRM to show how every religion, superstition. and cult had their own interpretation of it. There really are only 3 confirmed sources of magic. Ice: Weirwoods/Others/Greenseers. Fie: Dragons/Valyrians/Melisandre + Thoros, and finally faith/belief in magic: "Power resides where men believe it resides, it's a trick. a SHADOW on a wall." Ergo, people believe there is power in blood (rituals, sacrifices, blood oaths) so because they believe that it does, it does.
The comet falls in the 3rd category in my opinion. It made the superstitious more fanatical, and the skeptical more open to the idea of "What if?"
For the long night we really can't be sure. George just hasn't written enough material on the subject besides it definitely happened at some point in the ancient past. But even that is opened for interpretation because the people in Yi Ti believe the Bloodstone emperor caused it by worshiping a black stone meteor.
The ol' "Reverse Craster"....gets 'em every time ;) I've been hoping we'd get to see their edgy, emo teen years at White Walker High School for the Dark Arts, but it seems like they might age-up too quickly to get many angsty hijinks. However, I like to image at leas a few coming of age, John Hughes movie moments.
The fact that all of Craster's sons are products of ever increasing degrees of incest means his blood is very "special" for some reason, but why? What it is it about Craster's seed (ewwww), and how did he, or the Others, ever learn of its power? He also hasn't been doing it forever either 20-30 years tops, so he's fairly "new to the game", unless he inherited the position somehow. Again, why him/his line? He seems pretty ordinary, for the most part. For all his creepiness, he nonetheless "served the Old Gods faithfully" and seems to have been as much of a "victim of fate", as anyone. He is "bound" by duty, custom, magic to his place, every bit as much as Bloodraven, or the Sentinals in the Wall. All "prisoners in the North", so to speak.
There's clearly a very specific "formula" at work to make a WW, and it seems like they only started making this "batch" of WWs fairly recently in anticipation of the events we now read about in the books. I'm not sure how we could learn about that sort of lore though. The WWs don't seem very chatty and I doubt they wrote much down. My only guess would be Marwyn(?), but even that seems unlikely.
Sure could use that new book, GRRM.....
Cheers!
I think if we are going to get any real details about this magic and how it works it has to come Via seeing things in the Mel POV. She is the only one imo capable of figuring it out in her own head without a convo with the others or something, which as you say they aren't the most chatty bunch.
Also with Craster I could see his set up there being a result of either bloodraven's meddling (if he is behind this in some way he could have instructed the plan) or if not bloodraven's fault I could see it just being a case of Craster is uniquely terrible as a person and willing to do this thing where as others just aren't. But that leaves the question of how he learned to do it in the first place. It could be just some creepy mostly forgotten old gods thing I suppose. That is how Craster himself talks about it. He acts cocky about his godliness like he is the only religious one who still worships properly.
@@michaeltalksaboutstuff The name "Craster" has always kinda-sorta struck me as an anagram of sorts for "Stark" = "Starc(er)" = "Craster", but it's a stretch. All those harsh, Germanic sounds seem to be associated with "Northern" peoples. It may simply be a play on the word "crass", as well. I suppose.
The main "issue" seems to be the timing. How do they go from newborn to full-grown, badass, WWs so quickly? "They just do cuz magic" seems kind of weak. Everything takes at least a little time to grow/mature, even Ice Zombies, presumably. The "children" of the Forest are some of the oldest beings we've met. Why would they "need" babies, if they didn't want to "raise" them in a particular manner?
I hope Mel drinks a little extra vision juice to get us some answers. Cheers!
@karlkarsnark regarding the "why Craster", I think the answer is special king's blood. There's a decent theory that Craster is Maester Aemon's son (from the famous line, "What is honor compared to a woman’s love? What is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms..." and other context clues). If true, this which would give Craster's sons kings blood, and specifically the special blood formula we often talk about with the prince who was promised line: Dayne/Targaryen blood from Aemon and first men blood from the Craster's mother who came from Whitetree village.
@@abigail6873 Ah-ha! That makes a lot of sense. His "fiery" Targ blood being converted to "ice" is very much in theme with the book itself. I would've never suspected Maester Aemon had a "tryst", but we were all young once, I suppose. "I dreamed I was old, Egg."
Although, I hate the idea of such a rotten "bastard" as Craster coming from Aemon alone. There must be some "Other", corrupting influence, or event along the way to make him get so creepy. Maybe Aemon "Made a Deal with the Devils" to protect the Night's Watch/buy them some time by offering "tribute" in the form of the babies. Whatever blood he has is obviously very special and has to be kept extra "pure". Hence, the incest. Does that mean the more inbred babies are more "powerful", or less, I wonder?
Cheers!
@@KarlKarsnark Agreed, I was opposed to the theory that someone like Craster could come from someone like Aemon when I first heard it. I even considered the other Targ he could've come from - Bloodraven. But, given the context that Aemon had a newborn son and the tragedy in his story of duty vs. love, it makes sense that he had a son, though I hope he never knew the monster that his son became.
I love the additional symbolic analysis you added! Regarding the power of the inbred babies, I'd imagine that they're at the same potency or possibly more powerful, depending upon whether the "power" comes from a recessive or dominant trait and if Craster preferred (ugh) his more Targ-looking daughters.
Yaay new video ❤
white walker daycare theory is hilarious
They strapped her to the heart of winter and him to the night fort so they live for eternity apart
What if the nights queen was trapped until Shiara came traipsing along and got herself possessed by the nights queen?
Algormancy!
So this idea about a reverse craster. Or ultimate other mother, curse hearth, shadowy valley and killing waters.
What if this ultimate dameoncabula lady is harvesting the boys like the Vincent price movie a boy and his dog? That movie is a horror classic with a telepathic dog, post apocalypse and sacred seed. I bet George saw it.
Shiera Seastar: there is a passage where Blood Raven says he isn't able to contact his siblings.
Yeah that line is the one that makes me most doubt Shiera would still be involved. He does say it in the context of he couldn't reach their past selves and change the past, but the way it is said kinda implies they are no longer in contact in the present either. I think it is written where if Shiera did come back and was in some present contact with bloodraven it wouldn't go fully against what he said. But it could be read as Shiera is gone now because he speaks of her in past tense.
The way it all reads to me is-Mel IS the Night's Queen, whatever that really means. THAT'S why her magic is so much more powerful at the Wall than anywhere else in the world. She was totally OK with staying at the Wall when Stannis leaves. Before she was NOT happy about being left behind by him. -I think Mel is being tricked somewhat. She is tricking herself, for sure. In text, the only person who makes me think of an "opposite" to Mel; Val. Mel reminds Jon of Igrytte-Dany will remind Jon of Val.
When I started watching this video, I thought "reverse Craster" was going to be about Varymyr lol. But anyways-the way it all seems to me is that we def should notice the lack of female Others. Craster only gives his sons over, the attack on Waymar and co.-The Others are ALL male, so far. I can't tell 100%, but the fact that they are "twins" of a sort make me think THOSE were some of Craster's sons. And that's why these Others are "recentish" to the storyline. Before the opening of the books, The Others have been "gone" for a LONG ass time. And it is only "recentlyish" that whytes have started being made and attacking-Osha's story about her husband, the mass fleeing, etc. We hear that they have been "sleeping" or that they have "returned"; lil bits here and there. The Wildlings seem to know wtf is going on tho-Mance sends an envoy to Craster to invite him to join him. NOT something Mance is going to do lightly KNOWING that Craster is giving his son's to Others. And Mance DOES know. Even Ygritte knew about Craster's black blood and his curse. They invite him anyways-the implication is that they feel bad for Craster. The implication is that Craster was forced into the role he is in now. Even his mother seemed to know what was in store for Craster if he stayed North of the Wall. She begs the watch to take him-they refused. THAT is really weird to me, that they refused to take Craster. The watch should have taken Craster, was my impression-if that baby had been any boy BUT Craster, the watch would take him. Craster is one of THEIR bastards and thru Mance we know that they take lil boys North of the Wall-something is off with Craster from birth, and The Watch Commander knew what was up. Craster's mother is from White Tree. THAT tree reminds me of Ygg the Demon Tree from Iron Born stories. The people of WhiteTree were feeding that Weirwood. And it's face...wtf? BOTH trees remind me of the Tree in the Wall that Bran and co. pass thru. The one Sam, Gilly and Baby Monster come thru. Maybe not all, but def some of those trees are f00ked up in the EXTREME. Some of The watch knows that too-when Qoran tells Jeor that the trees have eyes again? He wasn't saying that in a good way. The Trees are waking and The Others, too, is what is sounds like he is saying. I feel like Qoron somehow sees the Trees and The Others as part of the same thing in a way that stands out in text. The Iron Born were not entirely wrong to hate those trees. I'm guessing that the IB were some of the first people that were fed to trees, if not THE first. The North might worship them, and some have nicer faces, but something is WRONG with the efin trees. Just like something is WRONG with Craster giving his sons to Others, but is lowkey accepted by wildlings and a few in the know at The Wall. He sees them as "offerings to the Gods." NO different than feeding people to man eating trees, really. What Crater has been doing is accepted. It has happened before...so Jon's reaction to Craster? I Consider THAT the first real step in ending the Long Night, in a way. And accelerating it. The Long Night is already here by this time. When the Iron Born kill Ygg the Demon Tree? They felt the same way about doing THAT as Jon feels about stopping Craster. That shit with Iron Born and their hatred for the Trees started something like this exact shit before. Who really is the "bad" guy here? Craster? The Watch? The Others? The Wildlings that all knew? Craster is an asshole. But I really get the feeling of ALL the assholes in text so far-he was truly created. Craster tried-he never stood a chance in a world that refused to help him. Could he have STILL been a "better" person? I don't know-I think he was probably as good of a person as he could be, playing the shithand he was left with. Craster is an asshole to the Watch-but te fact that he helps them at all is kind of wondrous considering how they rejected him and his mom and how The Watch treated his mom, etc. All together, the text makes me think that when we meet Craster, when Jon meets Craster-at THAT time Craster IS being the BEST person he can be AND keep his "family" alive. He isn't "evil" because he is lazy or because he wants to be-he has never had ANYTHING but shit choices. Anyone who could/should have helped Craster instead only helped to force him into what he was. I do not like Craster-he was bad to his daughters. VERY bad-he may have no choice about the sons, I can fully undertsand his hatred for almost everyone, really and truly. He gets NO empathy there. Pretty sure thats where any reader feeling bad for Craster is supposed to draw the line. Anyways, Baby monster, Craster's rescued son, is at the Wall. With Mel. And Craster's Son are Coming. But are his sons the Same Others we meet with Waymar? Some of his sons are going to be grown by now, if they age naturally before being "changed." We don't even know if Craster's sons are being changed at all yet-but it is likely that they are allowed to age naturally before whatever happens to them, happens, since I haven't read ANYWHERE about actual Other Chidrens. Some of Crasters son could very well be human boys and toddlers at this time. The Night's King/Queen was doing the SAME thing with babies-giving them over. THOSE babies are the same as Craster's sons. What else is going on in Westeros when the Night's King/Queen shit goes down at the Wall? Basically that same shit is happening again right NOW, with variations. The Night King/Lord Commander first sees Night Queen from his place on the wall. Then he goes to her. He is not afraid. Mel is at the wall, and is going to be seen by their King...and be taken. Or she sees him and goes to him. Just like those two love-birds from the original Night's Queen/King story. Either way, If Mel goes beyond The Wall for any distance/time I am pretty sure that The Others will take her. Mel is going to be stupid and "not afraid." When Mel and Mirri summon shadows, they have to use/drain something living to do it. That's why Mel can't make another shadow with Stannis. I am not sure The Others CAN summon shadows. But it reads to me Like Mel could bring forth shadows all day long with those guys. They can't do th shit without her for some reason. They would be through the Wall if they had access to, or capabilty of, that kind of magic on their own. To me, it feels like the Others DO have some kind of plan in the works. Rescuing Craster's last son has f00ked that up a bit somehow, maybe-they WANT him back, it looks like, right? See, the thing with Mel and her shadows that is for sure-her shadows can pass thru magical wall/barriers, once SHE is there. It has happened twice. Mel KNOWS that the shadows she brings forth at the wall will be terrible, powerful etc. So do The Others, pretty sure-they are SO powerful that a lot of Wildlings see them as Gods. They know what Mel is and what she can do. If Mel has shadows at the Wall, I really get the impression THAT is going to be BAD for the side of the Living. I really think The Others are looking for exploits in the Wall so that They can pass. They have no way to bring it down on their own-or if they do, they do not want to use it. But they sent those whytes thru as dead Brothers-and they sent a person thru with the wildlings-that's the implication of why Waymar's broken sword is back. They are trying to find a way through for themselves, not just their whytes. Mel needs to get the f00k away from that wall and take Baby Monster with her. SHE and that baby need to go to Winterfell NOW. Can you be a Queen, if you are already a God? Queen seems such a tiny thing, when compared or even combined. Like trying to focus on a diamond chip in a crown of jewels.
Major Twist!-Celise gets taken by The Others and SHE becomes The Night's Queen! Now we know why GRRM didn't just kill her off in child birth! She becomes the Queen she has always desired to be-a Queen who can birth an army of imortal Sons for her King!!!!!
Saw a theory that Maester Aemon is Craster's father. So both targaryen King and Kin of the Dragon. Perhaps mated with greenseer/skinchanger to control the wights. Making the babies targaryen/stark bastards inbred. They are frozen fire right?
@@kmook76 OK-Here is where it gets complicated a bit. I THINK one of the things that makes Craster's blood 'unique' is that he is likely Pure Blood First Men. AND something more. I don't know if he can still be pure blood with Aemon as his father. It is more likely that Craster's father was Blood Raven. For some reason, the Blackwoods AND Brackens both single out females here and there from their families. THOSE females are SPECIAL. BR's mother was one of those women. There is still something missing, tho-the implication of Craster's confidence of survival IS his blood-his First Man blood. The Others, because of the Pact, cannot kill pure blood First Men. THAT is how I read it to be in the books. Craster KNOWS he is pure blood and CANNOT be killed by The Others. Craster KNOWS he is 'good' with the 'gods.' THAT is what he means when he says that. Craster saying that and KNOWING he is going to be ok-and the fact that Gerrod gets a free walk from The Others after they kill Waymar and Will...and a few other things all tell me that no matter who else they can kill, The Others CANNOT kill pure blood First Men.
in the book, Denerys walked out of the fire naked with dragon babies but her hair was burnt off too. not in the shows though.
When this series started, I thought you were totally insane. Now I think you're still insane but coincidences can only happen so many times before its no longer a coincidence.
I'm not presenting it as a more likely scenario. I'd just like to suggest we take what we think about Crastor with a grain of salt.
There is something very weird about one of the things he does. He sacrificed his sheep. Maybe this is something the Others would find worthy, but it seems odd to me. Sacrificing animals doesn't seem very valuable to magic most of the time. Contrast that against the lack of sons, and I get the impression Crastor is a massive mislead. I just ask people to consider his sons secretly live together away from his keep.
The quote you use says the sons come when the cold does, which could mean they come to defend their mother/sisters. Sons not living in his keep might need his sheep if there's less game in forest, which explains the sheep. He could he leaving his infant sons with their brothers to be raised by them. The point in the story where this threat is made is after the fight in his Keep. Once they've learned of Crastor's death very human sons would be just as likely to come for revenge. Crastor gains a lot of fear/respect from rumours about him. Even if his younger daughters do in fact believe their brothers are the Others, they have a massive reason not to run away from his Keep.
However, there is yet another possibility I think should be considered. Crastor's Keep seems protected from the Others. Our primary interpretation is that they accept gifts to stay away. But what if they CAN'T get to him? What if he's actually giving them to Coldhands to be delivered to the CotF? What if it's the same magic protecting their cave that's protecting Crastor?
I'm not saying these are more or less likely. I just get the feeling GRRM is trying really hard with Crastor to mislead us.
As to Shiera. I understand why and where you're going with the eye colour, but as with Rickon I think most people are missing a more common symbolism. Blue/green is a Tourmaline. Renly, Rickon, and Shiera all the youngest of their lines and all heavy with Tourmaline symbolism. There is a significant Tourmaline pattern in the book that few give much notice. It's strongly timed to birth order and usually tied to someone with green magic connection. I would expect her to be involved in a narrative similar to Renly and Rickon, perhaps even Damphair. It's an interesting topic.
The weirwoods using humans as a powersource makes sense, but I think the Others behave too independently to be captives of the children. I believe they came from the far side of Essos, and may have originally been created by the Bloodstone Emperor as a weapon or experiment that has now become an independent race. I also think Euron may be in contact with them.
Great series
Hope we get winds someday 🤞
What if he is a necessary part of white walker creation. Possibly blood relation to the first created white walker. Who possibly was a stark of winterfell. Or just lived in proximity to a weirwood tree.
Point to make craster is a prisoner and has given up trying to save his sons from being taken.
I think you are missing a big point comparing shadow babies and it is the most obvious. Stannis could have sex that is how Melisandre took in his essence.
My theory why the Night King NEEDS Craster is because the Night King has been castrated. Craster - Castrate it's almost an anagramme.
My Castration theory is that any main character that has been castrated is because of one reason. It was done to ensure their line ends with them and therefore their line could not inherit from the family. Since kin slaying is a mortal sin there are only two ways to get rid of a family member. The first is to send them to the Wall as in the case of Sam. His father wanted to make his heir his second son so he gave him a choice of sending him to the wall or meeting with a hunting accident. Sam's father was too superstitious to kill him outright. Two men from Winterfell have been sent to the Wall Benjen and Jon. Their first conversation was about fatherhood because being sent to the Wall castrates a man, as they are not allowed to have heirs or own property. So why did Ned send both the the Wall? Jon only wanted to go because Benjen was there.
The second way to deal with an unwanted family line is to physically castrate the offending male. Yes, I believe that Varys's castration wasn't random, and particularly that man was paid a small fortune. Another theory for another day but I think that Kevan Lannister was Varys's father and unbeknownst to Varys he committed kin slaying. I think we will eventually find out who was really behind Theon's castration.
All this to say that I think the Night King was accidentally made immortal 8:04 and to try and make up for their mistake he was castrated.
I think the old lady is actually Craster's mother and he had his first children with her when he was still a child. Then he had children with his daughters, then his granddaughter. I suspect that Gilly is his great-great-great-granddaughter.
Here is where Melisandre made a HUGE MISTAKE. She either misheard or misread "there is a power in kinG's blood" I believe the actual phrase is "there is a power in kin'S blood" Which in fact is not too far-fetched because it is the basis of the Targaryen dynasty and their attachment to dragons.
The only other family that has an attachment to a wild beast is the Starks.
My big theory is that when the children created the Night King their mistake was that they hadn't factored in that the Night King was birth from kin's blood because of the lies told about his parentage. However, the power was such that it KILLED the weir wood 8:04 !!!
So Craster's sons are not shadow babies. The Night King is just using him and his daughters as surrogates. The sons must be born from kin's blood because the Night King was born of Kin's blood.
I know everyone is locked in on R+L=J which I believe is so wrong on so many levels least of which Jon doesn't have one trait of the Targaryens. Also, even Catelyn says he is more Stark than her own children. Lastly, Jon and Dany are supposed to be polar opposites Danny's parents are brother and sister and I do believe so are Jon's.. B+L=J
It seems the first chapter of ASOIAF indicates the Others are looking for a certain man - Benjen? Jon?.
A grown man would be a much better source of male energy than a heap of baby boys. But that will have to do for now.
Of course maybe they raise them to manhood first before they strap them to trees and (ahem) create shadows with them then and Michael won't have to let Ice Shadow Mama Shierra strap him up after all and we can keep enjoying his theories. Dude she's no good for you!
Yeah I didn't think of it for this video until after but in this context that could very much be where Benjen ended up... Strapped up to a weirwood grove birthing others possibly against his will
You're tell me there's an Other mother? Talk about another bother
i know the shows ending is not canon but what if daenerys becomes the night queen next
Micheal does in fact talk about stuff 👍🏻
I hate that they (D&D) just used the others as a ‘keep watching to find out’ and then never telling us. 😑
I think Shiera Seastar makes sense to be the ‘nights queen’ or Melisandre’s opposite.
I never thought about it like this. I love your theories. Thank you. 😊
well if they spoiled everything why buy the final two books. I doubt George even told them everything. Danny burns more stuff, Bran becomes king and Hodor were definitely revealed to them , iirc all 3 said this in interviews.
@@HisameArtwork okay that’s all
Fine. But if they can spoil the rest, why not the white walkers too? But we know why, because they didnt know what to do with it. Just liked the shocking aspect of it. Just like they didn’t know what to do with Bering Dondarion either.
They should’ve passed this show off to writers that still cared about the story. Hit their ego didn’t let them. And now we are left with theories, and probably will
Never read the final book if we even get WoW. 🤷🏼♀️
I still think that the Others are each of the 19 men nailed to the weirwood trees at the Wall.
If they were repopulating with Craster's sons there should be a lot more than what is ever shown. Considering some may die in childbirth and m/f is roughly equal, he has a LOT more daughters than the number of Others.
There are 19 forts on the Wall spaced roughly 14 miles apart (or 7x2?). If each were to spawn a shadow then there would be 19 Others. The Night's King is just the one that is associated with the Nightfort but is not overly special in any way.
I don't think the books claim that the Night's King is one of the White Walkers, but he may be the one nailed to the tree after Joramund's Horn brought that part of the wall down and the previous person nailed to the tree was killed.
There is evidence of a similar thing in the story of the slaves of Valyria. One slave wished for death and the first No One of the Faceless Men killed him. The "Stark" associated with being the Night's King had his name erased from record making him into a "no one".
Btw, "killing" an walking Other with dragonglass or Valyrian steel simply causes the frozen eggshell to be shattered but does nothing to the spirit within. Given enough time it will collect more ambient ice and return. No one ever sticks around long enough to find this out. These weapons' special quality is that they merely resist the super cold that shatters normal steel.
Only by killing the men nailed to the trees will the walking Others be stopped. But they cannot be reached thru all the ice.
Thus, the Horn of Winter is needed and why it's made clear that Sam is taking this horn with him wherever he goes. When Jon blew the horn it failed to make a horn sound but that doesn't mean it is broken. That could be it's use: To amplify the air passing through it as a megaphone to penetrate the Wall and command the trees to rise up and shake off the ice.
Only person we know who can speak to trees is Howland Reed, but maybe Joramund could as well and helped the Night's King (aka No One) to kill one of the Others.
When the trunks are exposed the men can be killed by the Faceless Men which very well could end up being Arya as she becomes No One.
👍
Do Shiera Seastar Bloodraven and Bittersteel actually have a love triangle cuz I think she doesn’t fw Bittersteel at all but then why is Bloodraven jealous over some dude his girl doesn’t like is he just a total wuss 😭
Grrm isn't going to explain it any better.
theres alot of differences in the books than the show
I think that you go to far in trying to back-port things from the show to the books, and assuming that all magic works rge same, or even that George has thought through how it works. Just because one of his wives calls the others the "boys brothers" doesnt mean they are, just that it is what she believes. If this ritual was so integral to the religion of the first men, surely we would see other wildlings doing similiar, but we dont. Craster exposes his sons because, were they to grow up, they would threaten the stability of his household. The boys die of cold, and i see no reason in the books to suppose otherwise. Things that D&D seemingly made up dont factor into my thinking on the matter
"reverse craster" just sounds wrong
Everything about craster sounds wrong 😅
LOL 😂 Jesus man
This guy is schizophrenic