Eastern Europe is not real
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- Опубликовано: 24 апр 2024
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If you call a Pole an Eastern European, that Pole is very likely to tell you that they are actually from Central Europe. In fact most people who are from what we like to call "Eastern Europe" prefer calling themselves something else, like "Baltic" and "Central European".
The reason for this is that "Eastern Europe" is in many ways a nonsense concept that doesn't really make any sense the deeper you start looking into it. In this short video I try to give you an overview as to why that is.
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Slayyy
Bro really did Slovenia dirty with those cat ears lmao
Cool
@@Arrow14100Slovenes are femboys
@@JohnGeometresMaximosNo?
Hello from Czechia, please don't rob me of the opportunity to explain to you how we're Central Europe and not Eastern Europe, it's all we have.
Czechia, the only country who is remembered internationally as the joke country who “is obsessed with their geography”, even though having an insane amount of history and culture that could easily rival Vienna and Paris.
Honestly, czechia is quite firmly a western nation. Us Slovaks on the other hand, yikes.
To be fair I have never seen a definition of "central Europe" that wasn't missing a few countries or had a few too many
Терпи, лимитроф
You also have one kind of beer that you pour different ways
The real eastern Europe was the friends we made along the way
Real
Like 30+ friends
True 😂 ✌️✌️
And the experiences we've made, that will help us to prevent future mistakes
if you get offended by being called Eastern European, you are Eastern European.
As a Pole, I have never even thought about Euro 2012 being turning point for perception of ex-communist block nation for rest of europe, thats intresting observation
Because it wasn't.
@@DMasterplanL It was.
@@RafaelW8 It wasn't. It happened in 2006
the german guy is lying
why? i dont know but you are correct
I don't know anything like enough to dispute Kraut's proposition there but it seemed to me like a something a better-informed viewer may have found hysterical.
Coming from Scandinavia and having lived in Poland and Czechia for 7 years I have noticed that Easter Europe is a derogatory term and more often than making the Poles and Czechs angry, it makes them sad and hopeless that after hundreds of years of wars, colonisation and genocides they need to put up with this. It is simply humiliating to call them by a term coined for the degrading reasons mentioned in the video. The fact that the Soviets have pushed it through in the UN is also horrible because it forever nailed a certain picture of those countries in the minds of us Westerners, namely that they have some connection to the Russians when in fact they were colonised by them and even during the Cold War they were forcibly exploited by Russia. Never in those countries history were they willingly in line with Russia. It always happened through Russian invasions. For me they are Central, Baltic, Finno-Ugric ect. Let them define themself for the first time in their history. Love from Stockholm ❤
nicely put! I think you understand what is going on, hi from the Czech republic
thanks my viking friend
Thanks for the words of logic.
Especially since in my browser, your comment appears right below the comment of a famous Serb (LivingIronicallyinEurope), who records "funny" and "ronical", "black humor" films about the Balkans and Eastern Europe. He said that Eastern Europeans should reclaim the slogan Eastern Europe as if it were a common good. At a time when most people do not want to restore this word but emphasize their own different identity.
You noticed well that the most important thing is identification and if someone wants to be different, it means that they are different. It is very easy. If someone wants to be Baltic or Central, that's how it is. Similarly, I hope that no one doubts that Ukrainians are not Russians, but to check it you need to ask Ukrainians and that's it. Just like asking Croats, Bosnians, Slovenians whether they are Serbs/Yugoslavs. If they deny it, it is what it is.
Greetings from Poland
Thank you from Lithuania! You expressed it perfectly!
I mean, whatever. At some point it doesn't matter, we earned our place. I know we are different that 'West' we also different then far East. I live in East Poland and East of EU, it is what it is ;)
There is a joke among slavic countries which is that Eastern Europe starts to the east of their own country, as no one wants to be seen as eastern european.
To the east is Mordor.
Or east of your region 😂
"Od Konina Azja się zaczyna" - east of Konin (town) is all Asia
@@LMB222 Funny :) I'm Polish and didn't know this one!
Not even only Slavic, here in Netherlands we say that Eastern Europe starts at the Ruhr and in France (from the Romans) they say that Eastern Europe starts at the Rhine
This is literally Žižek's "official geographical limit" video
Imagine cracking the "I only eat Russians" joke in front of a judge in a real life werewolf-ism trial 💀
Yep. This actually happened.
@@Kraut_the_Parrot I thought you were doing a deadpan joke for the video! That was real?!!
@@rkt7414 Yes. I'll give you some more information if you are interested. The werewolf trial happened during a protestant witchcraze in the Latvia town of Jaunpils in 1621.
The accused was an 80 year old man who claimed to be a werewolf and "a man of the hound god". He claimed to protect the village crops by turning into a werewolf and hunting those who would steal the town crops. He also performed religious rituals for the "hound god". One of his defenses during his trial was "I only eat Russians".
If you want to learn more you can read "Night Battles - Witchcraft and Agrarian cults in the 16th and 17th century" by Carlo Ginzberg.
@Kraut_the_Parrot This was literally the 17th century equivalent of Japanese Officer going "we only killed 102" or paraphrasing.
We need him on the front lines ASAP
Finland is the Eastern European country that got away... And Czechs are the one that did not get away.
Well, if Czechia had remained in the Holy Roman Empire, then it would be counted as Western European even today. But then there was Austria-Hungary... then the H-guy and the S-guy... much "cleansing" occured...
Let's blame the evil dictators of the 20th century for this Fremdbestimmung.
Czech IMHO got away cheaper than FIN
@@Enyavar1 Yes, we Czechs love to have somebody to blame. I'd add 19th century dictators to the list as well, after all it was Napoleon, who dissolved the Holy Roman Empire ;)
@@robrob9050 Fins paid with their lives, Czechs with their liberty and their spines.
As someone from Latvia, the term Eastern Europe is straight up derogatory and we absolutely hate it.
I don’t like being called Eastern European, but I hate being called Russian even more
Yeah, term Western Russia suits more 😄
I just heard a priest talk about St John Nepomucene that he came from "Eastern Europe".. Imagine calling someone living in Holy Roman Empire 600 years ago as "Eastern European".. I'm from Prague and I really hate being classified as "eastern Europe" because it is simply old political term that was there during the cold war..
Wait... I thought Latvia was geographically Eastern European
@@zoharcina no. Eastern border of Europe is in Ural mountains. Ural mountins are from Latvia as far on east as Spain in on west.
"The French being French" is a perfectly good explanation for everything that happens in France.
French people ☕
Nobody knows what it means, but it's provocative. It gets the people going.
Honestly, I didn't understand this sentence 🤔
I haven't laughed so hard in a long time.
@@amelie1287I take it, you are not french?
Rip to all Eastern Europeans who realized they aren't real.
The rapture came early to them
"Mr Kraut, I don't feel so good..." *proceeds to turn into ash*
Literally nobody self-identifies as "Eastern Europeans". So yes, they aren't real.
iam currently disolving. help
all 0 of them. Because like Kraut says, people here don't consider themselves "eastern european".
Pre WW2 Lithuania was very similar to Denmark in terms of population and economy. The staggering difference in 1991 showed just how much damage the soviet rule did to the region.
@@basanttyagi7516 who do you blame for North Korea being 60 times poorer in terms of GDP than South Korea, despite being richer before the Russians took over? IDK about Lithuania, but Latvia and Estonia was almost equal to Nordic states and richer than almost all other countries in the World at that time..
@@hanshoffmann2582 > before the Russians took over...
What Russians? xD
> who do you blame
O'coz fucking US and their pack of western curs, who imposed a million sanctions on the DPRK, preventing it from developing and trading
@@hanshoffmann2582hmmm Korea was never rich? Neither rich or advanced, maybe 500 years ago?
@@robrob9050 North Korea in the 1950s was more industrialized than the agricultural South. But the hard work of the South Koreans and American protection created a technological power out of nothing. However, the north stopped in time for 70 years.
@@bobstone0 I had pleasure in 1988 to see Samsung TV in the neighbourhood shop, the first SK product in my life. Nothing fancy, they put flat glass in front to imitate Trinitron 😆, in nutshell not different from local TV companies who did not bother with these tricks. Sony was the king, eh? These electronics companies were overprotected by high import tariffs and today almost 40 years later are distant memory and the dust. While Samsung is now the biggest electronics producer in the world. Things are changing aren't they?
As a Romanian, I never really thought about baggage of the term "eastern European" until now. I am debating with myself whether I still want to use it or not to describe myself.
As a millennial, I do find that there is a shared childhood experience with most of the countries under Soviet influence. And I do find thst westerners still have weird Russian fetishes that they still hold on to, even to this day. Perhaps the biggest thing that brings us together today is a hatred of Russia.
@perseus274 Nope, it's divided, as once Germany was and Koreea still is, because the will of Stalin and Adolf, and the Ribbentropp - Molotov pakt, and because we were ,,free" of the red - army occupation we are Even now under a very pervers and eluding kind of sovietic ocupation/domination !
Except, Russia is Eastern European too. The decades behind the Iron Curtain did make for some sort of shared culture and experiences, the "influence" being so heavy-handed as it was. That's why I think Kraut is wrong when talking about geography, history before Communism, and language families. If the term ever had anything to do with any of that, it doesn't anymore. When I say I'm Eastern European, I mean that I am from an ex-Soviet Block country. I'm used to blocks of flats rather than houses on the ground, and I'm used to high-grade liquor being available at 11pm at the little corner shop, which strikes the Norwegians as very weird. I'm going on 9 years of living in Norway and it has made me even more acutely aware of the "Eastern European" feel because it is quite the contrast going from Norway to any of these countries. I was born and raised in Romania, but when I go to from the North of Norway to Brno, it feels like home (of course, to the Norwegians I have to say that "I'm heading South"). Never been to Russia personally, but a Romanian friend of mine has been there, and she says that aside from the language, it's basically just like Romania, but dialed up to 11. I think there's a cultural reality behind the term "Eastern Europe" and I am not bothered by it. I'm Eastern European, and I own it. Perhaps it won't always be a thing, but I think that's still a few generations away.
@@carmensavu5122 A small, but not insignificant although, correction: during Ceausescu, that thing that you ' ve mentioned with the alcoohol it was not possible, as it was somehow regulated, you could' nt buy before 10 A.M. and most of the shops would close by 9 - 30, 10 'o clock P.M. It had to do with the resovietization after his death that the usurpatosr lifted any kind of restrictions on alcoohol and smoking to anihilate completelly this country !
@perseus274 Believe that if it helps you feel better, but I disagree. Why not just own it?
@@victormarian7889 I'm not old enough to remember Ceausescu's actual rule, but I'm talking about how these countries developed after the fall of the Iron Curtain. I've been to several, and not in one did I see the restrictions I see in Norway, so to me the restrictions are weird af, the kind of crap I expect to see in Utah.
As a Pole, that's fine. I'm ok with living in fairytale, or even not existing at all. As long as I don't have to live in Russki Mir
As a Hungarian who supports Ukraine I absolutely agree.
As an American I think Poland is a kick ass country. Winged Hussars are basass.
@@jalex4251 As a amrican :) the good dudes
Good luck with that
Amen from Romania, brother!
I'm Portuguese. My girlfriend is Italian.
When, in the summer of 2022, I told my 84yo granny that I was visiting my girlfriend's parents in northern Italy, she begged me not to go because of Putin's invasion of Ukraine. When I told her that Ukraine was pretty far from Italy she told me: "all those eastern countries are the same to me".
So in some sense, what you call eastern, center, western, is also a matter of your POV.
Grandmothers are so pure 💓💓
I heard a similar response where a man told his grandmother he was marrying someone from South America and he was told “aren’t they all PROTESTANT down there?”
Se para a tua avó o norte da Itália é ligada com o conceito de europa de leste, então Portugal é a Ásia Central 😂😂😂
@@eskipoI Portugal é Bálcãs xD
Haha that's hilarious, I'm dying! 🤣 But I though the same about perspective; north, south, east and west are so unspecific terms to name a region.
as a very patriotic Czech, I clicked on this video because I saw Czech flag in the thumbnail, and I am glad I did
same! :D it's just what now caught my attention that the term 'patriotic' is associated with fathers and fatherland, while czech word 'vlastenecký' is associated with the homeland as great mother and belonging to her. Should be more responsible relationship than too many Czechs actually shows up.
As a patriotic Pole I also feelt the same when seeing a Polish flag
@@Neoniq41 do you know that Czech and Polish flag are quite similar? (czech is more red while polish is a bit pinky). also Warsaw and Prague has the same flag. It's just a random info, I know. But I love to learn how different and yet similar our countries are
:)
@@ondrejlukas4727 Yeh
@@Neoniq41 YEH jakože víte, nebo YEH jakože 'klidně si polibte prdel'? :)
Everyone always says werewolf. But nobody asks howwolf?
Werewolf, werebear, weretiger.
Were this shit show of a zoo.
whywolf?
xd
I'm from Eastern Europe from Ukraine, I'm fine with whatever geographic term people are calling me and my nation as long as they don't call me russian
Hello my ruskay friend.
@@Hk7762Tube *rusgay
Hello my Russian friend
Russians are basically Polish vampires then.
Amen. Being a Russian is rather a medical issue than nationality thing aniway
What I learned from this video is that I TOTALLY want to be a 16th century Polish vampire.
Reasonable
A Russian in other words....
You want to get my wife pregnant? Fair enough 😂
No, you want, you would be stuck on the earth until Doomsday and become demon exhausted by too long existence.
😂@@SirAntoniousBlock
Simply amazing. I had never thought that I would see a foreigner (what I had understood from you, you are from western europe...) to actually know more about this topic than me, a Czech person. Great job, greetings from Czechia ;)
Austria of all places! 😂
Growing up in Australia, ‘Eastern Europe’ was a bunch of countries under the dominance of the Soviet Union, that were behind an iron curtain. After the fall and independence, we were able to speak of those separate countries so the phrase became obsolete. ..I still have my ‘Made in West Germany’ spanners but they are very old now and I hope part of history.
I had that idea but I visited.. ahem.. central Europe.. in 2019 and was swiftly corrected. Also the Polish, *looks it up* Zloty is roughly equivalent to the Australian dollar, its not even cheap.
Lol 1 euro is 4 zloty or 1.5 aus dollars
Well AUS was always free country, at least for whites
No one wants to be Eastern European because the label denotes a place of low quality but in reality a lot of these countries are great places with lovely people!
This - I feel that since the 90s it has most often been used to describe the one thing they have in common: being post soviet and thus being economically devastated - which coloured the term until it always carried this slight sence of soviet-caused-decay with it even when not explicitly stated and even now when it does not apply at all to many of them anymore
@@Dommifax well still, we are very underdeveloped compared to western europe. there's a reason me and a lot of my countrymen live in the west, it has to do with economic opportunity. yes it's not as bad as it was but it's also not good enough to go home.
Tbh, I wonder if the collective zeitgeist thinks the "Baltics" are the same as the "Balkans"
I once met a Slovenian tourist in my shop. His tire was flat. He is surprised I don't overcharge him. 😂😂😂
@@Dommifaxpersonally I, having been born in 1997, always considered the post-communism to be more about post-Sovjet politics & a still lingering political culture of corruption, which caused the economic difference.
With the fading of that corruption in many states comes an equality of economy.
If I’d had to guess I would say it would take about 30 years (a generation) of dedicated labor to fix that culture. And for most countries (outside at a guess: Russia Belarusia Serbia Romania Hungary Bulgaria and Ukraine) that is roughly correct.
"The dream of getting Russia to fuck the hell off is the only thing that makes Eastern Europe real" is a very bold thesis. As a Pole, I think I agree. Though we are OBVIOUSLY Central Europe, not Eastern Europe.
With, dare I say it, kick ass vampires.
Finland would be Eastern Europe then.
And bulgaria wouldn't. For the Balkans you must replace Soviet trauma with Ottoman
@@appa609the Balkans terrorized themselves quite well long after the ottoman empire was no longer a factor, and that's 100+years
And Finland is in northern Europe. East West is not the only axis you can divide Europe in.
@@Whatshisname346The vampires are in Romania, not Poland.
(If there are any Polish ones as well, please let me know)
Later edit: I only now got to that part of the video.
I’ve learned something new.
@@DoriZuzadidn’t you watch this video?
American here, so not exactly who you were looking for an answer from. I always lumped those countries together as former soviet countries. In my head without thinking too hard, I would further group them together subconsciously as the Czechs and Poles, the Balkans, and then everyone else. It's probably due to the fact that in school we mostly learn about the Poles and Czechs with ww2, all the historic conflicts in the balkans, and then not a lot else. It also probably helps that there are a lot of people with Polish ancestry where I'm from, and they are quite emphatic about it. This video does make me feel the need to drop the term eastern european from my vocabulary and to be more specific and concise in my language. Good video as always, kraut.
“Eastern Europe isn’t Real”
Australia and New Zealand: “first time?”
“PAPER FOR THE PAPER GOD” As a German, I cannot emphasize enough how accurately this describes the German bureaucracy...
Why don't you guys... I don't know... change it??
@@noodleppoodle change it?? Are you aware that if you want to obsolete for example form C12, this requires form A39, printed in triplicate, then scanned into a PDF then hand-signed by your superiors who then need to upload it to three different government agencies who will each have a 50% likelyhood to DENY the request!
@@Enyavar1form A39?! Wasn't it form A38? Did I miss something important or did the official "office of bureaucratic nonsense" forget to update us on changes AGAIN?!
@@noodleppoodle Any changes to the bureaucracy would require it going through the bureaucracy first.
It is a great description of France too.
As someone from Eastern Europe, I can confirm I don't exist.
As someone from Eastern Europe, I can confirm that you don't exist.
My condolences.
Hahahaha classic Eastern European humor
same lmao
😂
I never thought of Czechia as being eastern europe
we became apart of it in the 1940s
@@lilnunu1553 how come? sudeten land und protektorat was central europe :D
@@krystofcisar469 1948 mostly.
It was under communism and the Soviet's satellite country.
As a Finn the term Eastern Europe has intuitively been always sort of weird to me. We consider ourselves Nordic and Western, but if you check the map there's only like parts of Ukraine and Belarussia that are more to the East than Finland before we hit the Mother Russia. It's a political term as much as Finlandization was a political phenomenon driven by our huge neighbour.
Why would it be weird? It depends on the position relative to the Iron Curtain. Finland was on the happy, free side of the Iron Curtain, so that would be the West. We were on the sad, Gulag side, so we're in the East.
@@octavianpopescu4776 Yeah, you're right about that. And Finland stayed free by happenstance more than anything... but still we were relatively free in that sense. But talking about my own headspace - I get the political stuff, but still using "East" instead of like "Soviet" seems weird to me.
@@apinakapina Well, not all of us were part of the USSR. My country, Romania, was never part of it, so East is still the best word to use.
Even before watching the video I will admit that as a Lithuanian, I do ponder my existence on a frequent basis
A most lithuanian exercise alltogether
You *do* exist. You *are* valid. ....wait.....why are you disappearing? Noooooooo!
Well when are inbewteen sweden and Russia, their a lot things you question
A lot of Lithuanians seem to do that
Same, Latvian bralukai here xd
"Poland is in Eastern Europe"
Poles: *visible anger*
Wait until you see the Czechs.
Oh yes, I'm Polish, I can confirm. To this day I remember article from 2015, where they called CD Projekt (developers of Witcher series) "eastern European studio".
No. Im proud.
You can see clear difference in Poland betwean polish old german lands (western civilisation) and polish old russian lands (eastern)
Yes, I also saw this in a gaming community 😂
I think, as a west European, I have taken much more of a look at the East of Europe because I think the recent war has reminded me more and more how much all of our lives are dependent on eachother for our peace and stability, and how much we should stand shoulder to shoulder with all our European brothers and sisters to defend the things we care about and that many countries fought so hard to achieve especially those neighboring Russia. Self-determination and human freedom. Shedding the idea of eastern Europe as a monolithic cultural group let me see so many distinct and unique peoples and cultures, with their own unique histories. I think everyone in Europe owes it to eachother to get to know eachother and find what we have in common. Especially now.
We should have listened to Russia's neighbours when they told us over and over again that Russia is a threat, they knew because they have had to suffer an imperial and expansionist russia for most of recent history. We we're stupid to ignore them. And I think that ignorance is fueled by this idea that our brothers and sister in the east are somehow less than us. They fought hard to take control of their own destinies, and work hard for their freedom and prosperity, they deserve nothing but our respect for it.
Thank you so much for writing this!
Yes, the west should have listened. Even today is not too late. Although it is almost too late, because now the west have an inner grave threat: the muslims.
Average German, Slovak, Austrian, Slovene, Czech, Pole, Swiss and Northern Italian have much more in common historically, culturally, geographically and even linguistically to some extend than they have individually with Greeks, Fins, Norwegians or Spaniards. Basically HRE (Holly Roman Empire) and adjacent powers (Austro-Hungarian empire, core of Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth) is a distinct region. In my opinion Western Europe ends on Rhine where Central Europe begins and continues all the way to eastern margins of Carpathians in Ukraine where Eastern Europe begins.
My mental image of "Eastern Europe" collapsed completely when I travelled to Poland with my high school on an Erasmus+ project: we had to make a simple cardboard representation of some buildings and while we, the Italian group, used (poorly made) balsa wood, the Czechs and Polish came with 3D printed 100% true-to-real-life models. From then on my view completely changed on the region and that's why I think that Erasmus projects are the most useful long-term investments of the EU on its citizens. You can't learn everything about a country from abroad, you need to visit it.
That's why I'll defend Erasmus to death, even though I'm very aware that "Erasmus Orgasmus" is a thing.
I live in an apartment with 3 rooms that often get rented out to Erasmus students. It's been one of the most enriching experiences in my live and I've made a lot of friends through it.
That's what Erasmus is all about.
As a Latvian, I can say the country ball being smooshed is a vibe. We’re all slightly squished here.
As a Pole, I think of Lithuania and Latvia as a family. People of the entire Europe I treat as my friends. I was treated very well in every European country I visited. Belarus included. And I love each of those countries. I visited the USSR when I was a small kid. I have never been to Russia.
ps. As of now, I don't find myself visiting Russia anytime soon.
@@HanSolo__ I'd say our family ties are quite complicated, but in the 21st century Poland is definitely family as is Latvia. let's hope one day Belarus as a country can be part of that family too...
@@benas_st I'm another Pole and I feel closer to Czechia and Slovakia. Lithuania and especially Latvia and Estonia are too different countries from Poland.
@@benas_st Well, we (Poles) did accidentally f****-up that relationship we had with Czechs and Slovaks, Lithuanians and Ukrainians. But here's hoping it will mend in time.
@@Serratus648 we messed up with all our neighbours, especially in the early 1900s. That was one of the reasons why Poland was so isolated in 1920 and 1939.
But for us, Eastern Europeans today there is a shared cultural identity, because communism has influenced our cultures much, so even after it's fall we have much in common, even if we hate communism, we hate it because we had it. In the diaspora we often hold together. And also before communism we had much in common. The absence of matitime colonial empires. not very stable nations states in the past. Therefor large multi-ethnic land empires like Russia or Poland-Lithuania, or even Austria-Hungary. The fight against the Ottomans. That's why many of us are not affine to post-colonial discussions, but many have the narrative of national liberation from an empire. The backwardness compared to western Europe is als a topic. Some of us want to become like the West and admire it (like me - becoming part of EU as a kind of upgrade and gaining prestige ), others don't like the West. Drinking spirits, of course. but no cannabis. Dark humor. Extended families, not always of course. These are some features.... but if a Russian, an Albanian and a Pole meet in Germany, they normally understand each other. Maybe it will change. It's just how I experienced it
Exactly. To say Eastern Europe doesn't exists is pretty dumb imo, because there is a distinct line between countries that have been under soviet/russian rule and countries that haven't. Same way you could argue that Western Europe doesn't exist, or Central Europe doesn't exist.
It's just semantic nonsense
Paper for the Paper God fucking killed me and I've never even been to Germany.
I am from Germany. And it is true.
@@Yora21 Seconded!
I am from Poland, and while some of my friends are or have been working in Germany, all of them spoke of unspeakable horrors one has to endure to buy a can of coke
INK FOR THE INK THRONE!
@@Viruseek1337when you walk into a shop or a cafe, invariably you will see either a sign "no cards, cash only" or "no cash, cards only" and you have no way if knowing beforehand which one it is.
Putin: Russia is the rightful master of Eastern Europe!
Kraut: What Eastern Europe?
Putin: *Dissolves into dust Thanos style*
Eastern Europe is a politically apathetic term used by Westerners.
When exactly Putin said that?
@@Gala-yp8nx bro never looked at a map
Summon the werewolves!!😅
@@HelixTarot
As a Pole I 100% agree. For me such a concept as panslvic is nonsense because there are too little similarities between cultures of slavic countries like Poles and Russians or Czechs and Serbs . I need to add that I heard many opinions that for Germans Asia Start on the Oder river I can't say that's true .P.S. I never heard about Vampire in polish culture for all my life, I heard about devils, gousts and dimons . I allso want to say that poles have a longer democracy tradition than Germany which is a fun fact but hard to explain.
well... Even here in Belarus many people will tell you that we're located in Central Europe and not Eastern Europe... damn, that's what textbooks in school teach us
The biggest weakness of "Eastern Europe" is that it's an exonym; a term used by people outside of a community to describe the community. There is only so much you can learn about a group of people without their input - and most social sciences are moving away from that clinical, outsider analysis of societies.
Ultimately this is why I'm in favour of the removal of Soviet statues as a leftist, even if people do silly things sometimes like when a Ukrainian artist retrofitted a statue of Lenin into Darth Vader. By the end of the day, the Ukrainians are saying they do not want to be understood as "post-Soviet" in the same way the first Korean Republics did not want to live to be "post-Japanese."
It is not a kraut video, if it doesn't have you in comment section 😂
I wish to here your Franco-Mexican voice.
Well to me even as a American leftist (more on the center left), I see the lenin and Stalin statues the same way as Confederate statues, it better they don't exist and should as best be put in a museum as reminded of the bad past.
As he says, it is a “fremdbestimmung”
@@starmaker75 ya know? Honestly since the BLM protests, I've been rethinking the use of statues as a whole. I'm a lover of art, but it's weird to glorify someone in statue from for one or two good things the public perceives they did, and in spite of a career of what are now, or were already then, misdeeds. Like statues of Juan de Oñate in the Southwest. He "founded" New Mexico, but committed a slew of atrocities to the Native population.
Fun fact: the Polish word "upiór" and related words in other Slavic languages, which are the origin of "vampire" (edit: including the Serbian "вампир", which seems to be most directly related to it), are themselves perhaps of Turkic origin.
Meanwhile, the word "vampire" came back to Polish as "wampir". An average Polish speaker might not even realize the connection between "upiór" and "wampir".
Isn't "wąpierz" an original Polish word for a vampire?
@@Hadar1991 Kinda, an alternative term/synonym.
In English it's borrowed from the Serbian word vampir
@@Artur_M. zawsze udaje mi się ciebie gdzieś w głębi komentarzy znaleźć, z ciekawymi informacjami - jest pan wszędzie xD
I would like a participation trophy for hungary, as the leader of draco knights, dracula was also an inspiration for the first western vampire (and not vlad the impaler, who didnt kill traitors at night, didnt have a castle in transylvania, etc)
Hi, that's literally best video explaining this topic, big thank you!
Edit:
I've decided to add something mine to discussion. As a Czech, I've always hated term of Eastern Europe because of these things. I've seen as a kid especially our country just being alone, too different and with nothing in common with so-called Slavic countries and so on. It's irony call as Eastern Europe (frequently being miss used as post-communist), because for example we have being ruled by Austrian and Germans for much (I mean really) longer than by Soviets. In comparision to other Slavic, Eastern European, ex-Soviet and so labeled countries, we have much more German culture than them, with primarily language is similar to countries to the East from us (which is also heavily influenced by Germans).
And despite it, we were many years before pretty much independent kingdom and Czech remainded still really closed nature nation and minded their own bussiness as much as they could in times of being ruled by others. And that's maybe why we don't have much in common with many of our neighbouring countries.
I'm from Poland and when on video, you said, that polish guys probably would said, that Poland is a central europe, I was like: it's literally me :D.
Great video. Thanks for that and greetings from Poland!
Polska 🇵🇱 is "the base" of Europe. I love it
Polish vampires being essentially drunken undead hooligans might be the best bit of old folklore I've ever heard! 😂
Kraut is not really correct here. "Upiór", the creature he described, is directly translated as "wraith" into english. Inspiration for modern vampires absolutely came from the Balkans.
To be fair, there are vampires in polish folklore, they are even called "Wąpierz", and they did in fact pray on humans. There are just so many creatures created by improper burial or other practices, that sometimes it can be hard to find the creature you're looking foor among them.
@@Hargrovius as far as I know scholars believe that words wąpierz and upiór HAVE same root and relate to the same creature, those words were used just in different regions. You are thinking about modern meaning of Upiór (probably because of the translation of "Phantom of the opera" to "Upiór w operze") but if you read about the accounts in mythology they used to be essentially vampires.
Nie no ale polskie upiory z folkloru nie są wampirami z popkultury. Upiór był kimś pomiędzy szamanem, wiedźminem (czyli żywym upiorem zwalczającym niebezpieczne martwe upiory) i chuliganem robiącym zadymę na wsi. Ale to wszystko jest na tyle płynne i zależne od regionu i czasów, że ciężko tak jednoznacznie określić kim jest upiór
Kraut, as a Pole 🇵🇱 I thank you so much for this video. The region between Germany and Russia has always been neglected and ignored, and painfully lumped together as just "eastern Europe", or more honestly: backwater, a land to divide between the "big" players. People don't realise that it is precisely the fact that these smaller countries are independent that makes Europe a more stable and democratic place. This video is very important, so that people finally realise this.
As a Pole, I support this comment wholeheartedly.
Smutna prawda
>more stable place
>literally plagued by wars and genocides since the 90s.
@@ForOne814 Europe plagued by wars and genocides?
@@MiSt3300 Eastern Europe.
I do categorization on Wikimedia, esp. Commons, where there is an abundance of maps that shows the East part of the European continent, in very different variations.
Maps from the 15th and 16th century were extremely crude, especially those from West Europe, when cartographers were basing their maps on 1000 y/o geographical treatises _from the Roman Empire_ yes really, check out the term "Ptolemy's 8th European map". Things only got better gradually, but maps either showed a specific territory (like just Silesia, just Galicia, just Transylvania), or the whole region of Balkans and "Eastern Europe".
I was acutely aware of this whole trope that you present here, when I created the Commons categories for "Old maps of Eastern Europe", because there is no better term for maps that show everything between Prague/Vienna/Budapest right to Moscow/Kiev/Istanbul: unless you want to disintegrate the region into some constituent particles that all have to be named equally. The Baltics are not Central Europe, neither is Bulgaria. Moldova and even Romania may not really be entirely "Balkan" countries, and Hungarians will also not like to be included in the Balkans. And labelling them all as "Sarmatia" only worked for the Romans.
So @Kraut and contributors, I'd be glad if you have a name for the region of Ptolemy's 8th map in Europe, to be used instead. The old maps don't go away, so the concept has still a valid place in the historical context, for hundreds of years.
I'm Portuguese. You're all Eastern European to me, even though Portugal is probably Eastern Europe to everyone else.
It wraps around, in a way.
Portugal and south Italy are Eastern Europe
@@TastyChicker1L17 it's a shame we're Europe at all, really
@@TastyChicker1L17 Please we are way more organised in the actual "Eastern Europe" and it is safe here, although we envy the climate
It's a globe after all.
Bros in French Guyana are laughing at you
„The East. An invention by the West.“
-Unknown
As a russian I'm happy when people at least call me East European, cuz sometimes they call me Asian 💀
Take pride in your nation even if you might not like the government. If the East Europeans or other people want to call you Asiatics or whatever then remember that Eastern Europe excluding Russia is an incredibly underachieving region in world history by European standards. East Europe isn't really much when you remove Russia from the club.
Your channel is amazing, keep up the good work!
Also: would you consider making a video on Italy and its foreign policy? As an Italian I find it to be…inconsistent, at best. Towards the international institutions we are founding members and part of, I mean.
As a 16 year old Latvian, I think that the concept of eastern europe doesn't really exist in my generation. Having travelled to Estonia, Lithuania, Poland, Chechia, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria, I see these countries as unique and different NOT as one. Sure, there is some connection felt between these places but it is more from a historical than cultural or geographical view. I believe it is because me and my peers have been born in free countries with established independent identities. Also, internet is a major factor for easy consumption of worldly news.
All of Europe has crossover in between nations. This goes for Africa, Oceania, Asia and the Americas as well. Nothing worthy of note tbh
You have travelled. That is *the* difference.
Do you want to know the %% of French and Germans who never left their region, and perhaps have never even met an "Eastern European"?
The concept of Eastern Europe is not dependent on you, as an individual, liking or accepting it. The term (obviously) existed long before you arrived on the planet and will, in all likelihood exist after you have left it.
It is your prerogative not to use the term if you so choose, but you are certainly not in a position to wish it away.
Weird point to make. I mean we still call Western European countries Western European, despite the fact that they're also very different from each other.
16 y.o. Ukrainian here. I've been to Latvia and it is NOT Eastern Europe. Baltic countries have much more in common with Nordic countries, but I still think that Baltic is unique as a region
*The medieval Polish legends of vampires remind me quite vividly of my times playing Dwarf Fortress!*
Always give your dwarves proper burials, people.
In the last few years, there were several graves found in Poland where supposed vampires were buried, shackled , staked and with stones, or irons on their chest and cut legs/arms so as to not dig out.
But it some sense it survived to modern day. While nobody believes in vampires, the idea of having ashes of your deceased relative at home in a urn is just bonkers, furthermore it is a criminal offence for which you can go to prison. Regardless if the body is burned or not (and Catholic Church do not like burning the corpses) you have to bury ALL of the remains in a cemetery. You are not allowed to scatter any amount of the ashes or keep them as part of them in your house.
And for me, as a Pole, it is just completely bonkers what Western Europeans thinks is acceptable to do with somebody's remains. ;P
@@Hadar1991 Well that comes from us I believe, hindu tradition demands a proper cremation and scattering the ashes in the ocean or a river.
That's proper burial for us, can't imagine taking up space forever on a burial ground till eternity and then keep having to discomfort the alive folks with taking care of the burial grounds - the setting most horror films have to visit atleast once.
Case in point there are very few myths about beings returning from the dead in Hindu tradition because of that.
@@aravindpallippara1577 You can bury multiple people in one place. In Polish law it I think that 20 years must past. Tombstone is some sense is optional - if cemetery lacks free space, then abandoned graves will be given to recently deceased.
@@Hadar1991 Yes. You don't even buy the space in the cemmetery. You rent it. The rent is over, they remove whatever is there and prepare the ground for a new tennant.
So, anime writers were the only ones who nailed it right when it comes to vampires?
It depends what "anime" I guess 🤔
As a Pole I approve of the fact that polandball always looks angry.
The freeze frame of the singer drawing a tractor pulling tanks (in black and white) gave me absolute chills.
Maybe you left a window open and there is a draft?
Wdym
As a west German, eastern Europe starts in Thuringia
Eastern Europe starts in the Rhine and Southern Europe starts in the Seine.
Asia starts in the Elbe and Africa in the Pyrenees.
as a east German, I agree
@@machitoons as a polish, I say that's where central europe starts
How does that matter at any rate now? Half of you are Turks and Negros now and many more are on the way.
@@deadlyknights1119 whar
so entiriety of central europe is a fraction of germany?
One of the most interesting and informative videos I’ve watched in a while.
Love form the savage lands of Poland ❤🇵🇱🇵🇱
I am from Bulgaria, I this video changed my perspective on things, thanks!
As a Georgian, the easternmost European nation, thank you for covering this topic. Most of the people who criticize Eastern Europe have never been to that place. In general, Eastern European cities are safer than some cities elsewhere. Eastern Europe can only be hated by two groups: 1. Putinist Russia, which considers Eastern Europe as its property and does not necessarily want to be a part of the rest of Europe; 2. A pseudo-nationalist raised on Russian propaganda. The Central, Baltic and Eastern European countries such as Lithuania, Estonia, Czechia, Poland, Romania and others form the umbrella of European security and future development.
easternmost european? what about Kazakhstan?
Well there is an elephant in the room as to why their cities are much safer
There's a reason many Eastern European cities are so safe compared to Western European cities and i think we all know it
@@quuirrel19_-sz9pj Kazakhstan may have what are now considered culturally European minorities such as Russians and the Volga Germans, but in terms of both historical geopolitics and literal geological position it and its surrounding region is and has always been Northwestern Asia. It is east of not only the Anatolian ranges, but the Caucasian and Ural ranges, which means that tectonically speaking it is firmly on the Asian half of the Afro-Eurasian superplate. It is also East of the Caspian Sea, meaning that it is already well past the cutoff point for the the furthest east stretch of Nortwestern Asia, both in terms of historical record and geology once again. The areas once recognized as part of Europe in central Eurasia only stretch as far as Samarkand, and the habitable parts of Kazakhstan are on the opposite side of said historical polity. Thusly, Kazkhstan is firmly an Asian nation. After all, if having a Eurocentric culture or minority was all that qualified a nation to be European geopolitically, nations like Australia or Tunisia or Lebanon would be considered one as well, and at that point the geopositional classification of European becomes meaningless. To be clear this isn't me disparaging Kazakhstan, because I find its history fascinating, but if Siberia isn't considered geopositionally European even though most Uralic peoples within Europe including Sami, Magyars and Finns come from there, than neither can Kazakhstan.
@@quuirrel19_-sz9pj I assume you're trolling. Right?
Notably be aware that both Werewolves and Vampires *also* have other origins, which could be less or more sinister and there was basically a case of "well those wolf shamans of yours are *basically* werewolves." It's not that there was a case of "Oh there's someone who can turn into a wolf? Lemme steal that concept and consider it very sinister despite your protests."
Yes, and the base concepts are loose enough that they can be applied to many folkloric myths - there's plenty of wolves turning into men and vice versa in the british isles, and the word lycan comes from a greek story. It's like dragons, you can't pin the origin down from a single culture.
Exactly. It's the same with food. Basically every other country invented "pizza" because putting sauce and toppings on thin bread is something most countries tired at some point.
There is a nice German word “Schöpfungshöhe”, meaning “height (or level) of creation”. Basically, a measure of how non-obvious an idea is, for areas like patent law.
The specific myths may be very detailed and interesting, but if you boil it down to “person turns into wolf”, that’s such an obvious archetype that tracing it to one location is silly.
Thank you Kraut, I will use the terms you have outlined to respect each areas autonomy from now on, they all deserve it and it's a small change that means a lot
Hey, you noted the "Werewolf Trials" of the Baltics taking place in the 17th century... any idea if these were in parallel to the French werewolf cases around the same time? Or did one act to magnify the others? I was unaware of the Baltic Were-craze.
Kraut: Eastern Europe isn't real, it can't hurt you.
Eastern Europe:
Boo!
There is one very real way it will continue to exist, the divide between the Western (Latin) Christians (Catholic and Protestant) vs the Eastern (Greek) Christians (Eastern Orthodoxy). Even among non believers the cultural influence of the church in both regions affects the cultures to this day. In the West Modern Atheists basicly took Christian morals and ethics and tried to logic god out of the system (It wont work because the entire thing relies on God's judgement). In the East its the tradition of Eastern Orthodoxy that still defines alot of it.
@@avroarchitect1793 You're redefining Eastern Europe to not have Poland, nor the Baltics in it, nor Hungary. You just shrunk Eastern Europe in about half.
@@roadent217 I agree Poland is largely Western and always has been. The Russians and their various attempts of imperial occupation have devistated the whole region. The latter countries are effectively the exclaves of the Latin church. As for redefinition yeah I am, the continent is changing. Everything east of the iron curtain is finally catching up to the rest of the continent, and I am so very happy for them. Now all we need to do is deal with the Russian imperial perogative and we may actually see a longer term peace on the continent.
He he he :D
I live in the far east of Germany, close to the borders of Poland and Czechia. I never understood why these two countries in particular were considered Easters European. I always felt a closer cultural connection to Czechs and Poles than to Italians, French of British people. Sure the whole ex-socialist nation part probably has something to do with it, but it's probably more noticable for me in Saxony, since quite alot of our town/city names have slavic origins, as do some words in our local dialect. Specifically Sorbian origins.
As a Pole, I also feel closer to Germans (more to Austrians tbh but I'm from Krakow so maybe that's why?) than to, let's say, Lithuanians, Romanians or Dutch.
Our peoples are joined by the Salzgurke
imo the main qualifier of “central europe” is for a nation to have been at ruled by germans for a significant period of time.
@@cosmosyn2514 so, like, Namibia is central europe?
Saxony "sasíci" is a very special case, You guys were pretty much always our (Bohemian) allies for hundreds and hundreds of years. Before Prussia pretty much forced the union there were even talks about joining the two countries, at the time we had more in common than you did with the rest of the germans. For me as a western czech i feel much more closer to Saxony/Austria than even the Slovaks, We share a hell of a lot of history with Germany and we were pretty much one country for like 400 years with Austria, Slovakia on the other hand? like 70 during Great Moravia and then it was just hungary for pretty much a 1000, also one of the reasons Czechoslovakia was doomed to fail from the start and we should have stayed with austria instead, apart from language we have barely anything in common.
Dude the drunk polish vampire who goes around singing not letting anyone get sleep is still going one to this day lol
But now they are just British partying.
this is THE BEST commentary I have heard about Eastern EU for long time
BIG THANKS
To be fair, I'm from Poland and in 90s it was literally plagued by car thieves, and stories of people going to Germany to steal cars were nearly a daily occurence 😄
There was a joke in Finland in the 80s
"Come to Estonia, your car is already here"
now the car thief, pickpocket, gangster, and prostitute strereotypes all are for romanians. Its like all of europe shoved all its negative streotypes onto romania for some reason
I lived in Poland in the 90s. Confirmed.
You can tell when someone has not lived a certain time.
@@arturodiazcoca7408 Is this directed at me? Because I clearly remember my dads Polonez getting stolen from outside of Smyk in Warsaw while we were shopping for christmas gifts in the 90's, so I'm not sure from where your comment comes from :)
On werewolves, your characterization was not quite correct. While I'm sure your characterization of the werewolf in the relevant cultures is correct, your characterization of werewolves in the rest of Europe is not quite correct. Firstly, werewolf legends are very old and were spread throughout Europe for pretty much all of European history. For example, there are multiple ancient Greek stories about people becoming wolves. At the time as you pointed out these stories were mostly neutral or positive about it thinking that it was just a thing that some people were. The change in the image of werewolves did not come from any hatred of Slavic cultures but rather from the influence of Christianity. They claimed that only god had any real power so obviously the people who claimed to be werewolves were heretics. I am sure that there would have been specific hatred for the Slavic werewolf, which fun fact was the same thing as a vampire in certain legends and Dracula used the name about himself in the novel claiming his family was the origin of werewolf myths, but non-slavic werewolf myths were also demonized like the Irish legends of the Werewolves of Ossory.
Thank you for sparing me the work of typing this out. Also I would add that the term werewolf was also used as pseudonym for serial killer in German speaking lands, as many people would be accused of being a werewolf when they committed multiple murders. Knowing that Kraut studied in Austria, he might have even come across the childrens game werewolf, in which you try to find the person who murders the villagers at night in their sleep
Same can be said about vampires really. Vampire stories have been recorded as far south as Albania and Turkey, and as far north as Russia and Latvia. The word itself seems to be a strange wanderword with unclear etymology
@@pawel198812
I've also read that the "modern" version of the Vampire probably originated more in the Balkans. But alas, it doesn't really matter who had them, it only really matters what inspired *Dracula* and *Carmilla*, because that's what later stories were usually inspired by, and that's largely the mythology in and around Transsilvania.
@@Alias_Anybody please dont say vlad the impaler. Dracula was a hungarian general, Dracula was his position, leading the draco (dragon) knights of king mathias. He murdered rebels and traitors at night, was polite, and had a castle in transylvania. I hate the vlad misconception.
@@fulopmeszaros5330lmao this is just Hungarian propaganda
I was working in a small village in Poland, 60kms from the nearest big town (of about 150k people). There was this one store, located in a pretty much repainted garage. And it had a card terminal for contactless payments. The signal could not get through the metal walls, so we had to open the doors whenever we wanted to use card payments.
as a Pole, the concept of eastern europe started drasticly dying after 2010 and now its going even faster
After 2022 it seems kinda shattered
Nah, its very much still there.
Even if they dont use it consciously, subconsciously the idea that "eastern europe" is something lesser, dumber, more backwards than west is still there and could see it very recently...the russian invasion of ukraine and the ignorance of the western leaders and many people vs eastern decade long warnings that were instead ridiculed as paranoia or irrational hate
So i dont exist!?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOƠ̵͍̝̼̩͑̓̐̌̀̓̈́̐̈́̄O̵̭̘̳̯̘͔̦̲̣̱̰̳̾͆͊͐͜Ơ̵͓̓͐̇͌̐̌̂̔̑̆͛̓̚̕Ó̵̧̧̙̲̬̮̮͙̓̋̄̋͌̍̋̔͗̋̇O̸̖̹̫͇͈͈̠̮̙͆̕ͅỌ̴̤͓̮͛̋̌̎͆͛Ố̷̫̤̞̲̬̭̮̪͉̘͙̱̜͎͙̾̍̀̋͋͊́̎̏̔̎͐Ǫ̵͈̠͒̓̒͂̓̀̇͐̓͆͘͝Ơ̷̙̖̩̄͌̓̓̎͒̌̉͋͘͝͝Ȍ̷̧̱͉̺͖̝͓͚̤̣̮̳̌̑̈́̓̋̈́́͊̓͆̇̏̕͝O̶̧̩̲͙̬̰͇̹̣̳̤̟͑͊̌̅̒͒͌́̌́͝Ơ̷̫̠͈̠̳̱̲̳̝̬̣̘͇͊͋̾͑͌̈́̂͋͗͋̒̃̇Ǫ̴̢̧̛̰̘͓̭̩͚̝͇̫̆̎̄̀̀̀͆̿̿̓̚͘͜͠͠Ǫ̶̭͉̬͈͈͕̯͍̣̪̪̊͆̌̎͛̂̈͜͝͠͝ͅͅO̴̧̬̥͖̼͇̖̎̏̆̌Ǫ̷̨̥̰͕̞̯̲̪͉̼͖̤̎́̀͐̍̓̄̒̌͝͠͝
How did you wrote that ?
@@user-iz2tq3dx5d Just google how to do weird characters in youtube comments or smth
** dies in Mongolian **
@@user-iz2tq3dx5dDon’t worry you can translate to English thanks to google.
Vietnamese lookin ahh accents
Vampires aren't Polish. They are a slavic folk story and myth and can be found in many Slavic cultures, including Bulgarians, as we have archeological evidence for such burials in the 12th and 13th centuries.
It is true however, that the original vampires were much more different than what is currently in people's minds
Everyone knows that vampires are just Hungarians on a normal Tuesday.
As an uneducated American, isn’t ‘vampyr’ originally Bosnian?
@@HouseOfKung No, the word vampire came to English from the Serbian language, as for the original term for vampire, it probably already existed in Old Slavic. I believe the reconstructed Old Slavic word is "upir" which is the closest to old/middle Polish "upiór".
W Polsce takie istoty nazwywaliśmy upiorami. Upiór=phantom. Jeszcze za takie upioro-wampiry byli uważani ludzie, którzy urodzili się z zębami czy włosami. Albo miał włosy na klatce piersiowej ale nie pod pachami. Albo to że mówił do siebie to też miałabyć oznaka bycia upiorem ale w rozumieniu szamana, bo miał dwie dusze i one się ze sobą dogadywały. I tak dalej.
Generalnie polski upiór był bardziej takim szamanem, który wiedział o wiele więcej o świecie niż zwykli śmiertelnicy i z reguły był postacią pozytywną czy neutralną. Ale w XIX wieki na obecnym pograniczu polsko-ukraińskim wybuchały epidemie i zdarzały się przypadki odkopywania grobów i ćwiartowania zwłok by te upiory nie straszyły i nie sprowadzały katastrof na okolicę.
@@kamilszadkowski8864 There's also a case of the word "wąpierz" being wrongly considered an early version of the word "wampir" (vampire). It actually meant a pillow filling made of feathers.
Now do a video “why Western Europe is not real”
There are some factual mistakes in the video. Forms of vampires exist in Romania, Bulgaria, Serbia. The idea of such creatures can be traced back to ancient greek and Babylonian myths so it's far more probable the idea traveled from the south up to the north. Burials from early medieval Bulgaria show anti-vampiric practices as early as 4 century AD. "Vampiric" burials can be found in Italy from 5-6 century AD too. The Vaper is traditional folkloric monster in Moesia and Dacia.
Werewolves also have appeared in multiple myths all around the world so we can't just prescribe them to Lithuania and Latvia, especially if you claim they first appeared in 18-th century. Especially when you have the Beast of Gévaudan in France at the same period.
Modern representations of Vampires and werewolves are a mix of cultural and ethnic beliefs and traditions and can hardly be pinpointed to a specific region.
As someone from Bosnia, I think the only thing we can still use "Eastern Europe" for is to say "formerly colonized parts of Europe". Having to fight for our right to be independent is one of the few things that bind us together and I hope that soon even that won't be necessary anymore.
Hey. Since I have you here, I'd like to pick your brain a little more. I know that Bosnians get really upset when people ask them about their ethnicity, because for some reason some people are unwilling to accept that Bosnians are Slavs who just happened to convert to Islam a few centuries agao. So you are subject to this entire awful thing of being framed as "Even less than Eastern Europe" in a way. I'd like to ask you if you do not mind, what do you have to say about the misconceptions that others have about you? And how would you define and see yourself as a Bosnian in releation to your neighbors and Europe at large?
@@Kraut_the_ParrotYou're mixing up Bosnians and Bosniaks.
@@Kraut_the_ParrotNot a Bosnian but, Boskians (Muslim Bosnians) are basically Croats and Serbs that converted to Islam and or mixed with Turks.
Their country is very divided (despite the population being very similar) and has three main ethnic groups, those being Bosniaks, Croats and Serbs. Basically the whole thing is mostly kept alive by the Dayton agreement.
There are definitely plenty of bad stereotypes about us South Slavs and people from the Former Yugoslavia (although it's much less of an issue here in Croatia, however it's still prevalent).
@@Kraut_the_Parrot I'd say we are very much Slavic still, especially those of us in the borderlands and smaller communities. Bosniaks (as in the Bosnians who converted to Islam when the Ottomans came) used to be heretical Christians believing in a dualistic version of Christianity, where the good God Jesus was creator of the spiritual world and the bad God Satan created all material. They were quite austere, had simple churches and you can still find some of their stone monuments, mostly in the south (stećci). They almost had a crusade called on them by one of the Hungarian kings ('don't remember which one anymore, long time since i had this in school lol) if they did not convert to proper catholicism, so a treaty was signed at Bilino Polje to convert the Bosniaks under Ban Kulin. They mostly resisted through the middle ages because the opulence of both east and west did not suit them. So, once the Ottomans came with this religion that preached and mostly practiced humbleness and prayer and many other similarities to the old heresy, the people accepted it in order to avoid even more persecution. So yes, we are heretical Christian Slavs, converted to Islam, who have had a lot of that Islam washed out by time, distance and communism, who are being made invisible by our neighbours who claim we are Serbs or Croats or some weird mix of the two so they might split our lands and subsume our culture.
We have been under the Turks for 400 years, the Austro-Hungarians for 40, under our neighbours for 80 and under the thumb of the Americans for 30 now. We are a colonized people as much as our neighbours themselves are, whether its the ones closes to us, our brethren we share our mother tongues with, or our extended neighbourhood, of the Balkans and our farther Slavic cousins.
There are many things wrong with my home country, I cannot even list them all, I have left it and moved to Germany like so many others and it pains me. But I had no future there. My father, my aunts and uncles, my grandparents and their siblings, they stayed there during the war, they fought and died so that I could grow up and live in a country that was finally, after more than 500 years our own once more. But the system is so messed up that in 2021, 26 years after the end of the war, my father and mother drove me out to the bus station with as much home as I could carry in a suitcase and said goodbye to me, because they knew I would never be able to live a good life in the lands they spilled blood, sweat and tears for.
So I hate it, and I hate the politicians, and I hate the prejudice against us, and I hate everyone who lays a claim on us. But I also love it, I love the people, and the land, and the memories I have of it, I love my neighbours who are so fundamentally messed up in their own rights, I love the world who gave us a chance to govern ourselves, and took the bastards who harmed us at least partially to court.
I wish there could be a future for us, that my grandfather, and my uncle and my 2 great-uncles did not die in vain. That my aunt did not take the shrapnel in her arm to her grave. That my father could sleep at night. That my cousins had a father during the hardest years of their lives. That the messed up kids in my elementary school class had parents who could stay sober enough to see past the pain and to love them. That my great grandfather did not have to be separated from the land and the house he loved, only to die of a broken heart before the war ended.
The past is the past is the past and the future is bleak and there is no one left to fight for it. Only old, bitter men, with broken hearts and broken minds who cannot let go of their grudges for long enough to see that a new millennium has dawned upon us and that life goes on and that we can forgive and still not forget.
And at the bottom of the box, there is only left hope.
That I could ever be seen by my peers in Germany as anything more than a civilised savage, an accentless curio, a model of what kind of enlightened western citizen can be shaped out of the eastern gutter trash. That my parents will live out their years in the home my great-grandfather built, my grandfather built up, my father renovated. That I could return some day to the lands I've inherited as last of my line and work those lands the same as my ancestors and find peace.
sorry for going off all poetic and shit at the end there, it's almost midnight and I am a bit homesick so I just kinda let the words flow out of me 😅
> "Some English Guy" implies that Eastern European culture naturally creates subservience to authority
My brother in Christ, the nobility of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth literally had the right to an armed rebellion against the monarch that in their opinion infringes on their other rights or interests (the so-called "right to confederation"), and would allegedly on occasion straight up tell their king to get lost in the middle of a Parliament session.
One anecdote I have heard depicted the King of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth shouting angrily on a noble criticizing him, asking something along the lines of "who the hell are you to oppose me?", to which the noble's answer was "I am a free citizen, who can elect kings and bring down tyrants."
And if we look at Hetmanate, the entire administration was elected, from lowest town levels to a regiment commander, second in rank after Hetman himself.
So authoritarianism in Eastern Europe (excluding russians) is weird arguement.
The original vampires sound like characters in what we do in the shadows
Is there somewhere where I can learn more about the folklore mentioned? It sounds really fascinating.
Mr Kraut, I don't feel so well.
Great and quite volatile reference. I wonder for how long will it last?
About two weeks ago, RUclips randomly served me a recording of Slavoj Zizek standing on a bridge outside of Ljubljana sarcastically calling it the border between Central Europe and Eastern Europe. “On this side, the women are raped and they like it, and on the western side the women are raped and they don’t like it.” I got the point of the message, but I still didn’t understand why a Pole was so worked up about how people view a bunch of Slovenians. This video shed some light on that for me.
Not eastern Europe but Balkans. Balkans should be considered different from eastern Europe due to very unique history.
Slavoj Žižek is Slovenian tho
Slavoj Žižek is a communist.
So hardly to say he's even a human.
But anyway, it makes him Russian/Chinese.
Wait a minute! Does your laptop have a Polish Air Force checkerboard sticker? My two-finger salute to you!
As a British person, I would happily do away with the concept of 'Eastern Europe' for no other reason than to grant all of these countries their own sense of identity back. I want to learn more about Ukraine, Poland, Croatia, Slovenia, ect in the same way we all know a lot about Germany, France, Spain ect. What are their foods like? Their clothes? Their games? Their architecture? Who are some celebrated and influential people coming out of these countries?
Now yes I can (and do intend) to read up on this for myself. But I never had to make a concentrated effort to learn as much as I have about 'western' European cultures. I would love that to change for the next generations.
You cannot really appreciate and respect the culture and identity of a country while it is obscured by this label of 'Eastern Europe' and all the stigma that comes along with it.
(in my opinion).
Yeah, big misinformation about the accuracy of the folklore surrounding werewolves and vampires.
Firstly, the werewolves are pan-european not specifically Baltic, but similar stories can be found in Greece, France, Germany e.t.c.
Secondly, vampires are not Polish. The idea of an undead creature rising from it's grave to cause havoc through immoral and insidious behavior is present throughout central and south eastern europe.
So vampires are present in Polish folklore, but they aren't unique or inherently Polish.
THANK YOU! I immidiatly picked up on this too. This guy has no idea how to discern facts, apparantly. It's ironic that he's doing the exact fremdbestimmung that he argues "western europe" has done to "eastern europe", by crying ripoff and blatantly overlooking that every country that has wolves has a rich folklore about werewolves, thus denying them the opportunity to define themselves!
Exactly!@@christianpetersen163
I thought of this video to be an amazing one....until he said that about vampires and werewolves and ruined everything.
The name is however taken from a Slavic language that preserved nasals - cmp ukr. "upyr"
The name is.
There's only so far you can get into details in one video.
imagine being butthurt over wampire lore origins...
Ukraine could use some good werewolves
@@EuroMaidanWasAnInsurrection because the SS doesn't end and wants them speaking russian
But they would eat Ukranians too.
@@BuckNut-ck1sl Why would they? Remember the video, they are _protecting their community_ that means not harming it.
But really, nobody should start a werewolf resistance movement in Ukraine. Guess what the Nazis called their "resistance fighters" when Allied troops reached homeland territories in 1943 and began occupying them?
Yes, Werewolves. Once a term has been sullied by Nazis, you must throw it away. Work shall never set anyone free again; blood and soil is just bad and nobody can gain power through joy, ever.
If we can use the term "western europe" as you have in this video numerous times, to refer to nations formerly aligned with the 1st world during the cold war, bthen it ollows we can use the term "eastern europe" for those that were aligned with the soviets (whether or not by choice.). So long as contemporary situations are at least partially defined by that history the term will continue to be used. . . . and besides it's just a compass point. every continent, nation, city talks about the east side, west side north south etc.
The way that we create social constructs around regions because of an external perceived history is interesting and how they tend to live in people's minds. While at University doing my toilet paper degree (East Asian Studies) one of the things they absolutely tried to hammer out of our heads were the concepts of "East" or "West". While this was mostly to stop the idea of how the "East" was either barbaric or a lands of mystical elf people (my words, not my professors) it was also to stop people from using the concept of a "West". Like Russia seemingly needing the idea of Eastern Europe to justify their conquests, the idea of a "West" is now being used as a beating stick for various Asian states to other most Europeans or folks in the Americas.
This othering is mostly noticeable in the Chinese press. If, for example, Poland does something seen as pro-Chinese or has something China positive done, Poland is named individually and and praise is given to Poland as well as how it can "teach the West" a lesson in their relations with other nations. If Poland does something anti-Chinese or a politician in Poland warns against practices by China (governmental or private) then Poland is suddenly part of the faceless, evil "West" and shows how nobody should ever trust a "Westerner".
The concepts of Eastern Europe, the West or the East are likely things that will be weeded out with time. Hopefully they will eventually dropped, but then again there are still lots of poorly conceived, Cold-War era terms that have not died despite becoming meaningless. If you think about terms like "Third World" and how much it is still used, there is a chance that Eastern Europe may stick around for a good while longer.
I am Romanian. I agree with Kraut on most points with some exceptions.
✅️ What I agree with:
1) Culturally Romanians are latin, I find it very easy to make italian friends and make fun of the quirks in the two languages as well as having a shared heritage to Roman times to further joke and bond on.
2) We do not have as much in common with our neighbouring countries. We have a saying that "We are an island of Latins in a sea of Slavs" +the Magyars. Their languages are very unfamiliar say for a few borrowed words. Eastern Europeans are not alike, especially linguistically as pointed out by Kraut.
🚫 Where I disagree:
3) Despite all the differences, there is a strong tie between us Eastern Europeans. More specifically the shared subjugation our people's have endured throughout most of history.
Tough times are best at bringing people toghether, no matter how different. This I can see not only through my bonds with slavic friends over similar stories of how we fought the Russians, Turks and Germans.
4) This united struggle is seen even in the economy and landscape. From the Soviet blocks to the fortresses built to defend from the Ottomans.
What makes us similar are the shared influences we have endured from larger neighbours.
Conclusion:
Eastern Europe is a thing. United not because we are similar but because we share similar struggles.
The United States became united only through the similar struggles for independence.
The Internarium became a concept, yet again, not because Romanians and Poles are alike as people's, but because we fear the same empires.
I feel you on the different nation in a sea of slavs point, although i hate that many hungarians are very racist towards you. Please give tips how to throw out a xenophobic christofascist dictator.
@@fulopmeszaros5330racist isnt the right word, because romanians and hungarians are the same race. They are simply diffiernt ethnicites
I see that the language is a strong cultural influence. It bonds people together. But "We do not have as much in common with our neighbouring countries. We have a saying that "We are an island of Latins in a sea of Slavs"" is very strange to me.
Do you have more in common with Brazilians, Mexicans and Haitians - they speak Portuguese, Spanish and French then Hungarians, Ukrainians and Bulgarians?
Aren't the Dacians not related to Thracians - a people group who the Slavic Bulgarians and Bulgars mixed. Haven't been the territory of Romania not part of the first Bulgarian empire? Don't you share Ortodoxy and the first written text in Romanian was in the cyrillic alphabet: the Neacșu's letter?
And as you said - there was a lot of history together: fighting of Russians, Turks and Germans. But not only. And I am sure climate, food also leave their traces in the common culture.
So I am really confused about this "Island in an Sea" proverb.
I know everybody wants to be special - but feels also quite condescending.
@@captainchaoscow It is very true that there are several similarities brought on due to proximity. Ranging from food to language to climate and history. I cannot deny that Ukranian borsh is a key ingredient in most Romanian soups or the similarities in the Hora dances with other neighbors.
To analyze this, one can look at the Cyrillic alphabet used in old Romanian and on the most famous of Romanian churches. These are just some of the characteristics borrowed from our Slavic neighbors. Throughout the 19th century, however, Romanians have been distancing themselves away from the east and once closer to the Western Latin countries.
We used to be a lot closer to the sea of Slavs, but we decided we want to be a lot closer to the sea of Latins on the other side of the continent.
Our accents and words have been drifting towards Italian. Our constitution, monuments, new words and philosophies, even our flag is a near copy to that of the French.
So, in response to one of your questions, I would imagine we may have at least common philosophies and ideals in common with the Haitians. With the Slavs, we have a lot in common, but we wish we did not, and sometimes even change our language in order to draw that line.
@@radubaninca7533 Borsul ca ingredient e ceva romanesc. Borshtul ucrainean e un tip de ciorba...
Damn, man, you deserve every penny for your work. Your research is on spot, every word.
6:10 Hello! I think the word “exonym” also works here.
Just a short pedantic note. Werewolves, or Werewolf like creatures, are common fixtures in a number of different cultures in Europe and beyond, they're not strictly Baltic. Ireland for example has a long history of werewolves, although funnily enough the perception of werewolves and the early discourse around them is eerily similar to the baltic version. Perhaps there's a broader and earlier historical link between the two.
Mans made a whole video to explain the concept of regions and how they aren't accurate.
Turns out the world is more complex than: "those guys to the east of us"
That's not what I got out of the video. As a German, I can attest to the fact that Eastern Europe™ is almost always used in a derogatory context
@@paratame105 Only by various kinds of socialists.
@@paratame105 That's just how exonyms work. Terms like Africa, the orient, Asia, and eastern Europe were all conceived of to designate people as "not us" and "different" and to lump them together.
People from Indonesia and the Korea are both Asians. Does that make sense? Not at all.
The distance between those countries ~4300 km. The distance between France and Nigeria is ~4175 km.
Why is te Levant considered to be 'different' from Europe? Do they not share the same Greco-Roman history? Both are majority Abrahamic religious. Why are people from Lebanon Asian? What do they share with people from the Philippines? Why are people from Cyprus Asian?
It's because all those names were created from the perspective of western Europe. People just wanted to draw lines in the sand and they based those lines on race, religion, and ignorance.
I'm not saying he's wrong. I'm just saying that in the grand scheme of things Eastern Europe is a very reasonable and fairly accurate term. I know it's used in a derogatory manner but compared to all the other terms we use, 'Eastern Europe' is one of the most benign.
@@JongeKroost you think too much about what terms are and very less about how they will be used. And the video is just debunking, so of course it is meant to tell us about irrelevant concept in this case
i thought i was alone in thinking the term has some uses. for me it's useful to explain to friends and family about a place. Mediterranean might still be a stretch of knowledge for some peoole.
Would a Pole be offended at the use of Ostpolitik or is that ok since it works geographically for DE?
Is it just me or is the audio for this video lower than a normal Kraut Video?
There’s also the debate, that the geographical center of Europe is in Lithuania.
I read it was in Belarus
@@appa609 It depends what method you choose and what you will classify as Europe. It can be in Poland, Lithuania or Belarus, depending on approach.
@@Hadar1991 There are many supposed centers of Europe, but there is only one that is recognised as it is in Guinness Book of World Records. And it's Lithuania. Also it's the only center of Europe that is claimed by a foreigner scientist (French in this case). For the rest of countries, is a national scientist who claims "my country is in the center
@@Mendogology accualy the centre of europe is in my garden
@@Mendogology Not really. I am mathematician and the problem is that what is Europe is not well define. There are multiple different definitions there are borders of Europe and depending which borders we will assume are correct, then the centroid point moves a little bit. Also there is difference if we count only continental Europe or islands also (then extremes as Svalbard or Azores will have quite big impact)
A couple years back my parents took a tour called "Mitteleuropa". They went from Hungary to Hamburg.
At 8:00 it is not entirely accurate, Romania also has a vampire like folklore, we call them strigoi
As a Norwegian,
the only relation I have to the term eastern europe is that as a group name for the countries that were subjugated to Soviet's rule. Nothing more.
"There are too many stereo-types about the nonexistent Eastern Europe" *later in the video* "The French being The French".
Can't have a Kraut video without gross generalisations and hypocrisy!
@@MisterFoxtondifferentiated opinions and sources? not in my kraut video!
@@MisterFoxton French being french isn't exactly a stereotype. They are. very much
I’m pretty sure that even the French would be like “yep.”
@@B1gLupuHis points are still pretty terrible, like almost no here in Eastern Europe is complain about being called that way except maybe for the Baltics.
Haha. Your wife is pragnant by not you."It was a vampire Bazyli, I swear! You know we did not give him proper funeral!" :D