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I've heard the basics of Red Hood before, but his quote "Those are the heads of all your lieutenants, that took me two hours. You wanna see what I can get done in a whole evening?" told me everything I needed to know about him yet simultaneously wasn't even scratching the surface.
*ABSO-FRIGGIN-LUTELY.* Mic-drop moments like that aren't just fun and memorable-though they have both those qualities in spades!-they also can tell you so much narratively without needing to go into an extensive verbal explanation or even show things step-by-step on-screen. Writing goals, for darned sure!
If you're okay with a little language, there's a fantastic video called "Bat-Family rap" by DizzyEight that covers the basics of his character really well. "I put a bullet through a villain. What's prison? I erase them," and "appalled 'cause that line you've drawn I cross willingly. You're wrong, 'cause that cycle revolves around eventually," are some of my favorite lines.
Speaking of Joker's Laugh, i believe DiMaggio's one is the perfect mix of a darker Joker laugh like Heath Ledger's and the goofy clownly one that Mark Hamill has. Hell, his whole Joker has that vibe, and I really like it.
It’s almost like he’s a professional Voice Actor with serious talent… Jake in Adventure Time, Bender in Futurama, Chris Creely in Madworld… I could go on, but I think I’ve made my point.
@@maxrichards3881 First off, it's Kreese Kreely, but also, he's one of the two best characters in MadWorld, and one half of what I genuinely consider one of the best comedic duos in video game history, and I cannot be convinced otherwise. >w
I've always been torn about the "Batman should kill the Joker" argument. I personally stand on the side that Batman is a guardian- that he stops the things that others can't, and in doing so then leaves it up to the people and the judicial system to determine the correct next steps. To make him an executioner would change his role entirely and strip the power entirely from the people and the judicial system. On the other hand, if the courts were to issue a ruling that Joker was to be executed and he then escaped, would Batman be within the letter of the law to kill the Joker? Probably. I actually wonder if that's ever happened now. Like, has the Joker ever actually received a death sentence? In any case, another solid video as always Birdman! P.S. Jensen Ackles killed it as Todd.
Agreed! Part of what makes Batman important is the fact that he is a symbol. Even though there have been several iterations of the character that did kill, he ultimately has more value as symbol of, as you said, a guardian. He's not a sentry or judge, jury and executioner, he is a saviour and a paragon of what is good in humanity. Despite putting on a persona of darkness, violence and fear, no matter how broken down or desperate he becomes he always chooses to follow his code or creed. To deviate would be to taint the name of Batman and ultimately his own personal soul. (Although I definitely see birdmans argument and don't completely disagree.) If nothing else, then as some iterations have mentioned, if he gives in, the Joker wins.
Agreed-I absolutely loved Jensen Ackles in this! And man, this is a good thread! Partly commenting to make sure I get updated on replies, ha. You guys are definitely making some intriguing points thus far. For my own part, I can (MOSTLY) very much accept the idea of Bruce not killing folks himself-the explanation that he wouldn't be able to stop once he starts that ball rolling actually makes a lot of sense to me. BUT the catch is that I think he does need to thus either let others take care of things or at minimum stop working so hard to save some of these guys. Because we have Bruce both not allowing others to use lethal force (the "I couldn't stop" issue isn't their personal issue) and worse, stopping the villains from even harming themselves via accident or negligence or even deliberate attempt. He flat-out will save the Joker when he does stupid stuff like throw himself from great heights. "Won't kill" and "obligated to save under any and all circumstances" are two different things, and if the Joker tries to off himself, even as a bluff, why the heck would you stop him? So he can summer at Arkham and then go back to torturing and murdering YET MORE innocent civilians after his lovely holiday there?? Bruce, your eldest son is a police officer, and the man who's basically your adoptive father is an ex-soldier, possibly ex-spy, who keeps a shotgun in reserve. And you're fine with both these things, no?
Batman was already unelected. He already issues his own brand of justice based on a moral code that he personally decided upon, so for him to make this a question of democracy would be disingenuous. He is already an authoritarian elite, who beats up mainly poor and mentally ill people as his own twisted therapy session, the least he could do is take down the one genuine extistential threat in his rogues gallery. Him standing on ceremony and making about either his own slippery slope argument or about leaving it to due process as you have suggested, are just copes for the real reason: that reason being, is that Batman values his relationship and dichotomy with the Joker, more than he values the lives of Gothamites and his allies. The Joker is the only person who understands Batman on a psychological level. The two of them a star crossed lovers, two madmen both alike in dignity. They share a dark and twisted kinship that transcends hatred. Batman wont kill the Joker because he "loves" him, just as the Joker "loves" Batman. Batman is as obsessed with keeping this game going as The Joker is. Also, of course the Joker will never be killed off because Jomer stories always sell the best. That ks why the Joker is the only character that has had any development in about a decade. Aside from Catwoman, the rest of Batman's RG, are pretty much blank slates.
Also doesn't Batman literally say in that scene that if he did kill Joker it would essentially break him and he'd just end up killing more and more criminals? Batman is just as broken and insane as his villains and he knows that (even if he doesn't always admit it)
17:55 *HECK YES.* I think one thing that could very much stand to be emphasized more is the educational/academic side of their training and the fact that the kids aren't just elite fighters; Bruce studied far more than solely combat, and he trained them in these things as well. Law, investigative work, criminal psychology. And Jason already had a background of real-world, on-the-streets experience that even Bruce hasn't lived through. While Grayson has the general interpersonal and social skills that Bruce himself sort of lacks, I think Jason would probably be especially good at wrangling with criminals and determining how best to predict and influence their moves.
People really underestimate the Robins. Even Batman knows that they are surpassing him/will probably surpass him in the future. I don't remember which comic it's from but there is a panel where he talks about the Robins like "Dick is a clearer image of what Batman is supposed to be" and "Jason is able to do things I could never do as Batman". Not sure if I just made that up but I think he states one time that Tim is by far even more of a genius than he is himself.
@@kathi4089 Full disclosure, Dick Grayson is my favorite Detective Comics character, even surpassing Barry Allen, so I’m glad to see people praising the Robins.
@@kathi4089 honestly even better was in one of the animated things(I think Young Justice) where Justice League members were giving Batman crap for training those kids and having them do dangerous stuff. At some point, someone says that he's trying to make those kids just like him and his response was something along the lines of "I'm doing it so they don't become like me"
You and Linkara bring up a good point. The fault isn't only on Batman. It's clear that the Joker can't be rehabilitated and should be point down. But everyone points fingers at Batman, instead of having Gotham take responsibility for itself. The GCPD or higher power could legalize terminating Gotham psychopaths. But instead, they see masked vagilities as the problem. Then they waste time and money, trying to take them down.
I haven't read many batman comics or seen all the shows so I dont know if joker ever goes to an actual court hearing. So technically when batman hands him over he is still entitled to a trial before execution. That being said if a cop got to him before batman I dont think many people would loose much sleep if he shot him.
or more over, why hasn't another other hero taken out joker? they all know he's a psycho and a lot of them have no issues with merc-ing criminals. so if he's such a menace, why are they solely relying on batman to be the one to do it? hell, harley hates him. why not have her whack him?
I love how at the end the sentence was Fans are brutal referencing how Jason Todd’s death was ultimately decided by the fans voting him to die cause he was the least liked Robin. A bunch of grown people elected to have a kid killed in a comic book because they didn’t like his character arch that says a lot about our society.
@@maxrichards3881 absolutely lol. plus, there was this one guy who hated jason so much he programmed his stuff to vote for jason to die every minute... his votes ultimately made jason die lmao. otherwise, there were like 10,000 votes in total and i think the difference was only 70 something. so the fandom was pretty split haha
You are absolutely right that the "reveal" wasn't supposed to be a reveal, a good twist requires one of two things (great twists require both): good setup and empathetic characters, you need to give clues so that the twist isn't a real DeM and in order to shock the audience and earn it. If you decide to go the route of this movie and flat out tell the audience before the characters, you need said characters to be empathetic so that even though you aren't shocked, you understand and relate to the character that is. Character is the heart of storytelling.
Hands down my favorite animated superhero movie and the one that got me into watching animated superhero movies back when it was released! So naturally Jeremy needs to be punished with the crowbar for doing this.
Yea this was the first movie that got me into animated DC, I remember it coming out on Netflix because I just got expelled from 8th grade and was just playing 360 all summer until next school year
Of course Joker is going to give the illusion of escape to Jason. It hurts more when you have hope and have it dashed. Joker’s already achieved his aims anyway by making it personal to Batman, can’t get much more personal than torturing one of Batman’s charges.
11:50 Yeah, this is honestly one of my favorite bits from the action and really from the whole movie, and I really enjoyed your insight into it here and how it's part of the characterization for Jason.
From what I was told, it came out that a hater rigged his phone to repeatedly call the "kill Jason Todd" number. Btw, I'm with you a %100 on the killing of the Joker.
I agree the city of Gotham should give him the death penalty (if that's legal in whatever state Gotham is in) but Batmans no killing rule is more about his personal values than the law
@@jamescallanan2443 alot of Jokers crimes extend beyond Gotham and even if the state didn’t have the death penalty other states or even countries hes committed crimes in might. Look at injustice, Joker detonated a nuke in metropolis that doesn’t become a state level crime anymore, it probably is a military trial due to usage of a wmd and the military CAN execute a criminal, its rare but they still can do it. So in theory if the Joker ever attacked a military base they could demand to be the ones to conduct the trial and the city of Gotham could acquiesce to get around them not having a death penalty.
Jeremy's question of how Red Hood could survive that 40-foot jump should've been answered when he fires multiple guns without experiencing any recoil at all clearly he's got something more than most humans have, also it always makes me happy when people mention how skilled Jason is and his Lazarus enhancements, great job Birdman!
Even as a Batman fan boy I am always annoyed when I hear the “Batman can beat anyone” Batman can do a lot when he knows what he’s up against but that doesn’t mean he can’t lose that’s like one of the big reasons he helped make the justice league if I remember correctly to deal with problems that required a team of hero’s. Sorry for rambling anyway I enjoyed the video
the commentary night wing makes is actually a good thing in reality even though this isnt based on it calling out what happens during a battle light skirmish or fight especially one where you risk your life is absolutely vital because you cannot see everything happening around you if your focused on an individual or small group that is either actively or inactively a threat . telling your friends whats going on even if they have witnessed it will still inform them of where the most important threat is . And if someone says that there is a sniper . Don't know about you but if I'm running around with throwing knives and I'm whithin target distance of someone who is practiced in marksmanship that shit is a pretty big threat.
Batman hasn't killed Joker because he knows he's insane and killing Joker would basically turn him into a more brutal version of The Punisher, and that's not who Batman (or any of his friends/family) wants to be. As for the City of Gotham, yeah they have no excuse for not executing the Joker.
if you wanna look at examples of it, look at the batman-who-laughs and the grim knight. i bet you bruce has nightmares about them because they are what he fears he could turn into.
The City of Gotham apparently isn't into the death penalty, but have dropped the ball quite a few times if they are. Even if they were though, legally The Joker is not mentally fit to stand trial and you cannot sentence a man to death if they're of that persuasion. Now vigilante cops who want the Joker dead, that's a whole other story!
But do you think that's fair for the families who have lost their loved ones because of the joker and Batman/Gotham disregard to kill him. If it was your family you had lost due to a mad man who had constantly been escaping prison/asylum and someone who has to power to end it forever just didn't would you feel the same way?
@@Duality2222-2 Watch Shaun’s video on the death penalty, where he roasts that asshole Dennis Prager, or play the injustice games and see where that mentality leads you (Regime Superman).
Batman doesn't kill the Joker or any other villain in his rogue gallery because he wouldn't have purpose if he did. They go in and out of Arkham like a revolving door just to kill more citizens when they get out. The justice system in Gotham clearly doesn't work. Jason did more for Gotham in a month than Bruce did his entire career dawning the cowl.
Sin 15: Not to mention, most of these characters ALL have ties to Batman. Joker and Ra's are Batman's greatest enemies (Joker due to being Batman's complete opposite, and Ra's being Batman's equal), and Jason and Dick are basically his kids. Amazo is the only character without any ties to Batman, and even then the movie explains who and what he is. Also, it's not really fair to compare an animated solo movie to an entry in the DCEU. One is a self-contained movie while the other is a film that fell victim to a LOT of extenuating circumstances, like WB enforcing a stupid 90 minute screentime restriction and Zack Snyder having to leave the film after his daughter died.
This film wasn’t released theatrically, it was released direct to video so the writers knew the audience would at least be familiar with who these characters are, given they’ve appeared in various media like the very popular DCAU. As for Red Hood, his storyline is the main plot of the movie.
I find it funny that Jeremy sins the movie because it “makes no sense” that the Joker would give Jason a chance to escape yet fails to mention that the Joker locked the door. He didn’t give Jason a chance to escape.
@@kadelin3318 I know you're calling to the cinemasins joke, but honestly I don't see the connection, how could you even remotely get a racist connotation out of what I said
Oh, holy cow! I had no idea Cinema Sins had done a video about this, and I've actually been on a massive kick of reading (and now writing!) stories centered around the Batfamily and particularly Jason's relationship to his adoptive siblings and father. And Under the Red Hood was a movie I was fond of even prior to that! (And may I just say-I am SO glad they changed that stupid concept of having Bruce "We don't kill here" Wayne slice his own severely traumatized son's throat with a Batarang. To save the motherflipping JOKER.) Can't friggin' WAIT to see your take on their vid! Too Goddarned excited. 😁👏👏👏🔥
18:05 I think it's less that he didn’t have countermeasures (and he definitely does in at least some versions) and more that Jason was exceptionally good when it came to this type of work (desperation + experience is a pretty intense teacher) and this is part of what impressed Bruce from the beginning. And I don't know how canon this is, but I've seen references to the idea that this took place on the anniversary of his parents' death and that's why Bruce was there. If so, it's possible he let his guard slip and didn't mind security measures as much as he normally would.
15:30 It's also very much worth mentioning that here he's dealing with an extremely emotionally charged situation. He was utterly devastated before at the grief of losing a child, and now he's dealing with both the shock of realizing he's been resurrected and the horror and confusion at seeing how very unhappily this reunion is playing out thus far. He's not at the top of his game here mentally, at least for a bit. In a sort of related note, one thing I'm liking about the "Beware the Batman" show (and I saw others reference this, as well) is that they're willing to show a young Bruce getting his tail kicked quite a bit. He's still very competent and all, but he also has a great deal to learn and really has to work for his victories! Update: Kobe Gassock was kind enough to make a quick correction here in reply to this comment. It's been a while since I last watched the film, and I thought the clip was from one of the moments where he's having a flashback and superimposing Jason's younger self onto his older self. But the scene shown at the time stamp was from when Jason was actually still alive in his younger days, which means that in this particular case it was just the factor of being distracted with trying to save his kid and keep him from running into a trap. But not the grief that occurred later.
@@kobeglasscock7377 Ahh, okay. Thanks for the correction! It's been a while since I last watched the film, and I thought the clip was from one of the moments where he's having a flashback and superimposing Jason's younger self onto his older self. So that means it was just the factor in this particular case of being distracted with trying to save his kid and keep him from running into a trap. I'll add a note to my original comment. 👍 Again, thanks for the catch!
4:40 "Batsplaining." Okay, without even getting into the term this is derived from…the dude literally ASKED what Amazo was. Because…✨he didn't know.✨ I guess we're about to have "teachersplaining" every time a student raises his or her hand to ask a question. 🤣
I swear Jeremy seems so ignorant that if he'd do a cw univers thing about Constantine he'd say "casting a blonde dude to play Keanu reeves, that's worth 10 sins"
16:33 And, to disregard Jeremy's "source material doesn't matter" rule for a moment, in the comics, Jason actually wasn't brought back by the Lazarus Pit. Talia Al Ghul found him after he came back to life and that's how he got dunked in the magic soda.
several years ago I watched this with my frailly (mom, brother, sister) and it is my mom's favorite animated movie hands down...to the point that it is now a Christmas tradition that we watch this movie on Christmas - started by my mother
I'm so surprised CinemaSins did an animated DC movie, I wonder if they'll try to do Long Halloween cause I'm sure your video on that would be just as good. And I've honestly always liked this Jokers laugh
Honestly I do find the joker an interesting character, but while it'd mean no more stories (at least till a reboot or resurrection happens) about the joker will happen I agree. Heck batman beyond didn't have a joker except for the movie and it was still good
I think a story of Batman dealing with Joker's death could be interesting, as their dynamic isn't only about Joker. The two main times it was done it kind of underwhelmed me because he was dealing with other things at the same time. It would have to be an elseworld story though, because if Joker actually died there would be an uproar.
I just don't get why CinemaSins feels the need to manipulate scenes just to create a sin. I'd respect them more if they just padded the sin count with their cringy jokes. They aren't funny to most people, but at least someone would laugh at them, I guess.
This is probably my single biggest peeve. And it kind of connects to this whole problem of trying to defend their work as not being meant to be taken seriously: they mix in serious criticism with the other aspects. And it's bad enough when they make points that make no sense and try to frame them as being legitimate. But to deliberately deceive the audience by editing scenes to make them seem worse or less logical than they actually are is a really lousy move for both the audience and the film/filmmakers. Even for a film I despise, I'd want the criticism to be based on what the movie actually did or didn't do, not made-up and falsified stuff. That accomplishes nothing good-quite the opposite.
19:16 I'm glad you held gotham responible for Joker as well. Most people solely blame batman, but I would say the justice system of Gotham is more responsible for not properly handling the Joker when he's handed to them on a silver platter by Batman.
Gotham was built, founded, and run by mob families and evil cults for centuries. People always underestimate how corrupt a city it really is. The powers that be aren't going to make change easy for Gotham. That's why Bruce Wayne alone could never have done much good. He'd have been bought, blackmailed, mind-controlled, or--if all else failed--assassinated.
Honestly Dimaggio is probably my favorite voice for the Joker. Don't get me wrong Hamill is great but I just enjoy Dimaggio's performances more Edited: For grammar mistakes
John is one of the most versatile voice actors in the industry. He does Marcus Fenix, Joker and Bender-- three beloved and couldn't-be-more-different characters. The man is talented as hell.
Yea he is. And I jus found out recently he voiced Hammerhead in the OG Spectacular Spider-man show and in the Spider-man Shattered Dimensions video game.
It’s been a while since I saw this movie, and the only thing I remember is my favorite part; Joker killing Black Mask’s guards, starting by using a glass of water.
Never realised how similar John and Mark's laughs were. Also, you missed the fact that Jeremy said that Joker gave Robin a chance to escape, despite the fact that the bombs were on a short timer and he's locked the door. After being assaulted by Joker for an hour, there was no chance he could have escaped.
5:21 Also, surprise! This is a BATMAN movie. All of these characters are related to batman, and therefore have at least some thread to the story. Batman is Jason's father figure, and failed to protect him, Jason is the main character, Night Wing is Jason's adopted eldest brother, Joker is Batman's biggest villain and also who killed Jason, Ra's Al Ghoul is the one who hired the joker, and resurrected Jason, and is also the father to Talia Al Ghoul, who is the mother (kind of) to Damian Wayne, who is Jason's younger brother. This makes perfect sense.
Apparently there was a comic where Grayson killed the Joker, and Batman frickin' resuscitated him! I get that Batman has his code or whatever, but goodness the Joker definitely shouldn't have been saved. Got to admit I may agree with Jason on that one.
It was before Todd's resurrection and after Barbara's paralayses. Grayson believed that Tim died because of the Joker. The Joker even provocated Grayson for losing 2 brothers. So, he actually tried to kill him twice but Batman stopped him the first time and resuscitated him the second time. Grayson ended up having some mental issues after he realised that Tim was alive. He felt awful for trying to kill a man, and at the fact that it felt good he did it. He should have taken a page out of Wally's book. Bart's clone killed Bart so Wally, instead of killing a kid, took all his speed(it would have taken him a century to blink) and made him a statue in the Flash museum looking at Bart's exhibit. Dooming him to look at something he will never be
@@kadelin3318 Not Joker specifically, but a human in general. He said it felt good to kill the Joker but he didn't want to take a life. And I'm pretty sure that's why Batman saved Joker, it was for Nightwing, though I still think the Joker is Batman's responsibility and Bruce should be the one to kill him. Or atleast not trying to save him from Todd. Hell, at this point I want Damian to kill him. Atleast these two Robins are used to killing and would gladly do it
5:50 The real sin is that the criminals somehow know that NightWing is the first Robin. The thing about Robin is that, through the criminals perspective, has been one person. And how do they know that each Robin is a different person, yet somehow dont piece together their identities. Bruce Wayne adopts four boys, each whose age corresponds with the Robins?
19:12 I gotta agree as well. There’s no saving Joker. He’s a terrorist, a sadist, a mass murderer, an insane, a mentally unstable man, a cruel person, and a lot of other things. Batman, NightWing, City of Gotham including the GCPD are all at fault for the Joker continuing to survive only to cause more harm. Honestly, so what if someone tortured the Joker inhumanely or killed him as he was in extreme suffering? Theres no such thing as going too far with torturing or killing the Joker after all the things he’s done.
Also, even if the Lazarus Pit could revive people without issue, and death was the only stake a story could have, the Lazarus Pit is controlled by Ra's al Ghul, who would not just let anyone use the Lazarus Pit whenever. He only used it on Jason because letting Joker kill him violated his personal code of honor, and he wanted to atone for that.
2:10 not to mention that Jason is probably crippled and has mutiple broken bones so even if he somehow got out of the ropes he definitely wouldn’t get away in time
yeah, I'll admit to once being in that "batman beats everyone" phase. It took me a year to come to terms with the fact that batman is built for stealth combat and not 1v1 fights
You can’t exactly say the books don’t matter when this movie was direct to dvd, because it was made for the fans. It’s not like it’s a blockbuster film made for the masses.
Also, why does Jeremy think that Ra’s knew Robin would be targeted by Joker when no Robin had ever been targeted by the joker before? The Joker is crazy sure but he hadn’t done anything like personally and senselessly beat a child to death yet at that point in time.
My favorite batman line from the comics is: Lying in a pool of my own blood and vomit. Yes. This is the way to strike fear in the hearts of heart of criminals.
I agree that anyone can beat anyone with enough prep time. Hell even Batman can be beat with with prep time. Just think about anything and everything that can beat you and set up things that can stop that and you have beaten Batman
It’s always interesting to remember that the existence of this movie/the storyline it’s adapting all started because the fans wanted to kill Jason Todd
11:02 Yup! The screenshot you showed earlier noted that Jason and the Batfam perform at levels not only equal to but ABOVE those of Olympic-level athletes. Not every average Joe, even in the DCverse, is anywhere near that good!
Big Batman fan here. Yes, you are correct. Batman can be caught off guard. That's what's so cool about Batman is he's only human. Batman is a master strategist, and escapologist. Its cool to see him put in sticky situations and see how he gets out of them. The only thing that irritates me is when people say he needs prep time to fight everyone he comes across.
This is a brilliant counterpoint video, my friend. I love CinemaSins myself. I commented on their video about the Deadpool movie that some of their Sins were actually Wins. Replies said that they just did not know the source content and other things. One comment got me to go from bitter to smiling with even a giggle. CinemaSins is a comedy channel. They are more concerned with making most of us laugh and not just the fans of the source materials. That's actually pretty smart on their side. Oh... and PLEASE do correction videos like this FOREVER! You are doing a great service to the minority of CinemaSins fans, making fans of the source materials both smile and laugh. THANKS!
14:30. Jeremy hasn't tried to shine a laser through a window before. Granted it's been a while since I've seen this movie and I can't remember if the window was pre-broken or not.
Y'know, this video, and the part about iconic characters in particular, shows why we don't need "origin stories" in movies for Batman, Superman, Joker, etc, they're so recognizable, so well-known, so retold, that origin stories aren't needed, most people know/understand the basics of Batman/Superman (and Joker's own origin(s) are so muddied that giving him a concrete one is unnecessary), thus you can just jump right into the main story/action, the origin is not needed unless the film is doing something different with the character's origins
Just finished watching Titans s3 so this was perfectly timed (absolute legend lmao thanks for the timing) but I just realised how much they took inspiration from this for their new season
Sin #45: The guy explaining this is explaining this to a new hire to Black Mask's organization who clearly doesn't know anything about the guy, so of COURSE he would need an explanation. It's a clever way of explaining things to the audience without having to deliver this exposition unprompted.
The whole "Batman can defeat anyone, with prep time" is absurd, because it neglects the fact that it also allows his adversary time to prepare, as well. Considering there's some characters smarter than BM (like: Lex, Brainiac, Mr Terrific), he shouldn't stand a chance against them (if we're going off the whole "I can beat you with prep time, because I'm smarter" argument). & I don't blame Batman for not "putting down the clown", when Gotham has literal judges, juries, & executioners. That whole argument is rather absurd to me. Otherwise it'd give GCPD officers carte blanche to basically kill any criminal (if they can "convince" themselves it's for "the greater good").
I don't mean to sound like I'm correcting u, ur right! But the only man on earth smarter than bruce is lex. Lex is the smartest man on the planet, Bruce is second, and mister terrific is third. Brainiac is another story xD he's not from earth so I could either say he's the smartest in the galaxy or put him as like the 1st or 2nd smartest in DC lore
i used to be a cinema sins fanboy until I watched your EWW S-M:Homecoming vid and you talk so much about the stuff that i thought about when watching cinema sins like Jeremy's funny SOMETIMES but u truly show just how incompetent he is when it comes to as his channel says SINNING CINEMA. I enjoy your content so much more and seeing as how you accurately describe how a REAL SIN is put in the correct context shows just how much more of a passion you have for cinema, gaming, and just comics in general. You are an amazing content creator and only want CS to keep making vids so i can watch you cover them forever a sub . Merry Christmas my guy, hope all is well. P.S. ALL THE CINEMA SINS D RIDERS QUIT WITH THE COMMENTS YALL SOUND JUST AS DENSE AS JEREMY XD
"leave Robin alive and give Robin a chance to escape" except he didn't give a chance to Robin to escape? He locked the door and wanted to give Robin false hope that he can escape
Deadpool, Rick, Morty, the fictional Will Smith who once questioned why there was no ceiling in a Fresh Prince episode, and ALL the Tunes from Looneyland would be proud of that fourth wall break!
I’m a huge Batman fan. I love when he gets caught off guard, when he loses a fight, when he can’t break through solid iron. I love it because it makes him fallible and makes him feel more human
Thank you Darren for requesting this video! I hope you enjoy it!
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Day 4 of asking for hateful 8
I've heard the basics of Red Hood before, but his quote "Those are the heads of all your lieutenants, that took me two hours. You wanna see what I can get done in a whole evening?" told me everything I needed to know about him yet simultaneously wasn't even scratching the surface.
*ABSO-FRIGGIN-LUTELY.* Mic-drop moments like that aren't just fun and memorable-though they have both those qualities in spades!-they also can tell you so much narratively without needing to go into an extensive verbal explanation or even show things step-by-step on-screen. Writing goals, for darned sure!
Make no mistake I'm not asking you to kick in with me I'm telling you
Yeah that was a badass quote ngl
If you're okay with a little language, there's a fantastic video called "Bat-Family rap" by DizzyEight that covers the basics of his character really well. "I put a bullet through a villain. What's prison? I erase them," and "appalled 'cause that line you've drawn I cross willingly. You're wrong, 'cause that cycle revolves around eventually," are some of my favorite lines.
That's his best line ever
Speaking of Joker's Laugh, i believe DiMaggio's one is the perfect mix of a darker Joker laugh like Heath Ledger's and the goofy clownly one that Mark Hamill has. Hell, his whole Joker has that vibe, and I really like it.
Same. DiMaggio might be my favorite Joker, honestly. He’s certainly one of the most underrated.
His Joker scared the hell out me. I wish they brought him back for future animated movies.
I'll never understand the hate his joker gets
It’s almost like he’s a professional Voice Actor with serious talent…
Jake in Adventure Time, Bender in Futurama, Chris Creely in Madworld…
I could go on, but I think I’ve made my point.
@@maxrichards3881 First off, it's Kreese Kreely, but also, he's one of the two best characters in MadWorld, and one half of what I genuinely consider one of the best comedic duos in video game history, and I cannot be convinced otherwise. >w
I've always been torn about the "Batman should kill the Joker" argument. I personally stand on the side that Batman is a guardian- that he stops the things that others can't, and in doing so then leaves it up to the people and the judicial system to determine the correct next steps. To make him an executioner would change his role entirely and strip the power entirely from the people and the judicial system.
On the other hand, if the courts were to issue a ruling that Joker was to be executed and he then escaped, would Batman be within the letter of the law to kill the Joker? Probably. I actually wonder if that's ever happened now. Like, has the Joker ever actually received a death sentence?
In any case, another solid video as always Birdman!
P.S. Jensen Ackles killed it as Todd.
Agreed! Part of what makes Batman important is the fact that he is a symbol. Even though there have been several iterations of the character that did kill, he ultimately has more value as symbol of, as you said, a guardian. He's not a sentry or judge, jury and executioner, he is a saviour and a paragon of what is good in humanity. Despite putting on a persona of darkness, violence and fear, no matter how broken down or desperate he becomes he always chooses to follow his code or creed. To deviate would be to taint the name of Batman and ultimately his own personal soul. (Although I definitely see birdmans argument and don't completely disagree.)
If nothing else, then as some iterations have mentioned, if he gives in, the Joker wins.
Agreed-I absolutely loved Jensen Ackles in this!
And man, this is a good thread! Partly commenting to make sure I get updated on replies, ha. You guys are definitely making some intriguing points thus far. For my own part, I can (MOSTLY) very much accept the idea of Bruce not killing folks himself-the explanation that he wouldn't be able to stop once he starts that ball rolling actually makes a lot of sense to me.
BUT the catch is that I think he does need to thus either let others take care of things or at minimum stop working so hard to save some of these guys. Because we have Bruce both not allowing others to use lethal force (the "I couldn't stop" issue isn't their personal issue) and worse, stopping the villains from even harming themselves via accident or negligence or even deliberate attempt. He flat-out will save the Joker when he does stupid stuff like throw himself from great heights. "Won't kill" and "obligated to save under any and all circumstances" are two different things, and if the Joker tries to off himself, even as a bluff, why the heck would you stop him? So he can summer at Arkham and then go back to torturing and murdering YET MORE innocent civilians after his lovely holiday there??
Bruce, your eldest son is a police officer, and the man who's basically your adoptive father is an ex-soldier, possibly ex-spy, who keeps a shotgun in reserve. And you're fine with both these things, no?
Batman was already unelected. He already issues his own brand of justice based on a moral code that he personally decided upon, so for him to make this a question of democracy would be disingenuous. He is already an authoritarian elite, who beats up mainly poor and mentally ill people as his own twisted therapy session, the least he could do is take down the one genuine extistential threat in his rogues gallery. Him standing on ceremony and making about either his own slippery slope argument or about leaving it to due process as you have suggested, are just copes for the real reason: that reason being, is that Batman values his relationship and dichotomy with the Joker, more than he values the lives of Gothamites and his allies. The Joker is the only person who understands Batman on a psychological level. The two of them a star crossed lovers, two madmen both alike in dignity. They share a dark and twisted kinship that transcends hatred. Batman wont kill the Joker because he "loves" him, just as the Joker "loves" Batman. Batman is as obsessed with keeping this game going as The Joker is. Also, of course the Joker will never be killed off because Jomer stories always sell the best. That ks why the Joker is the only character that has had any development in about a decade. Aside from Catwoman, the rest of Batman's RG, are pretty much blank slates.
Also doesn't Batman literally say in that scene that if he did kill Joker it would essentially break him and he'd just end up killing more and more criminals? Batman is just as broken and insane as his villains and he knows that (even if he doesn't always admit it)
"All the people I've killed by letting you live." -Batman.
This is my favorite DC animated movie and the way cinemasins handled it was atrocious. Thanks for doing this!
Same! I remember renting this movie when I was in college and thought “I have to own this!”
*F A C T S* Marvel may ahead on the live action front, but I have to admit DC completely kills it with the animations, though
Jeremy got away with this shit for 3 years, and it took a patreon request for Th3Birdman to finally refute his bullshit.
17:55 *HECK YES.* I think one thing that could very much stand to be emphasized more is the educational/academic side of their training and the fact that the kids aren't just elite fighters; Bruce studied far more than solely combat, and he trained them in these things as well. Law, investigative work, criminal psychology. And Jason already had a background of real-world, on-the-streets experience that even Bruce hasn't lived through. While Grayson has the general interpersonal and social skills that Bruce himself sort of lacks, I think Jason would probably be especially good at wrangling with criminals and determining how best to predict and influence their moves.
People really underestimate the Robins. Even Batman knows that they are surpassing him/will probably surpass him in the future. I don't remember which comic it's from but there is a panel where he talks about the Robins like "Dick is a clearer image of what Batman is supposed to be" and "Jason is able to do things I could never do as Batman". Not sure if I just made that up but I think he states one time that Tim is by far even more of a genius than he is himself.
@@kathi4089
Full disclosure, Dick Grayson is my favorite Detective Comics character, even surpassing Barry Allen, so I’m glad to see people praising the Robins.
@@kathi4089 yea that happened when he was talking to Damian. And he was capping about the robins aren't soldiers
@@kathi4089 honestly even better was in one of the animated things(I think Young Justice) where Justice League members were giving Batman crap for training those kids and having them do dangerous stuff. At some point, someone says that he's trying to make those kids just like him and his response was something along the lines of "I'm doing it so they don't become like me"
@@InfernosReaper I remember! I think it was in Young Justice
You and Linkara bring up a good point. The fault isn't only on Batman. It's clear that the Joker can't be rehabilitated and should be point down. But everyone points fingers at Batman, instead of having Gotham take responsibility for itself.
The GCPD or higher power could legalize terminating Gotham psychopaths. But instead, they see masked vagilities as the problem. Then they waste time and money, trying to take them down.
This. I still have no idea why the Gotham justice system keeps throwing the Joker into Arkham. If anyone deserves the death penalty, it's him.
I haven't read many batman comics or seen all the shows so I dont know if joker ever goes to an actual court hearing. So technically when batman hands him over he is still entitled to a trial before execution.
That being said if a cop got to him before batman I dont think many people would loose much sleep if he shot him.
Honestly they should just have Supes send him to the phantom zone
or more over, why hasn't another other hero taken out joker? they all know he's a psycho and a lot of them have no issues with merc-ing criminals. so if he's such a menace, why are they solely relying on batman to be the one to do it? hell, harley hates him. why not have her whack him?
@@Birthday888 He's legally insane, so I guess they can't. Even though far crazier men in real life were unable to get the insanity label in court.
I love how at the end the sentence was Fans are brutal referencing how Jason Todd’s death was ultimately decided by the fans voting him to die cause he was the least liked Robin. A bunch of grown people elected to have a kid killed in a comic book because they didn’t like his character arch that says a lot about our society.
How many Robins were there at the time? I’m pretty sure Jason was only the 2nd. People were THAT salty about Dick no longer being Robin?
@@maxrichards3881 Oh YEAH, people didn't like Jason at all, and then he becomes Red Hood and he's one of the more popular characters nowadays
@@maxrichards3881 absolutely lol. plus, there was this one guy who hated jason so much he programmed his stuff to vote for jason to die every minute... his votes ultimately made jason die lmao. otherwise, there were like 10,000 votes in total and i think the difference was only 70 something. so the fandom was pretty split haha
I wonder, what would’ve happened if the other option was most voted (if somehow it was possible).
Yeah, but we got something better from it. Tim and Red Hood.
I saw my boy Red Hood so I dropped everything, and knowing Jeremy's aversion to reading the comics, I know this is gonna be good.
SAME. And killer avatar! No pun intended, haha. The background makes it extra cool.
I actually have a similar one myself on Discord currently, ha.
You are absolutely right that the "reveal" wasn't supposed to be a reveal, a good twist requires one of two things (great twists require both): good setup and empathetic characters, you need to give clues so that the twist isn't a real DeM and in order to shock the audience and earn it. If you decide to go the route of this movie and flat out tell the audience before the characters, you need said characters to be empathetic so that even though you aren't shocked, you understand and relate to the character that is. Character is the heart of storytelling.
Hands down my favorite animated superhero movie and the one that got me into watching animated superhero movies back when it was released!
So naturally Jeremy needs to be punished with the crowbar for doing this.
Let's make sure to keep the Lazarus Pit locked up this time
Yea this was the first movie that got me into animated DC, I remember it coming out on Netflix because I just got expelled from 8th grade and was just playing 360 all summer until next school year
My favorite as well.
Of course Joker is going to give the illusion of escape to Jason. It hurts more when you have hope and have it dashed. Joker’s already achieved his aims anyway by making it personal to Batman, can’t get much more personal than torturing one of Batman’s charges.
11:50 Yeah, this is honestly one of my favorite bits from the action and really from the whole movie, and I really enjoyed your insight into it here and how it's part of the characterization for Jason.
The real sin is Nightwing showing up just to get injured again
To be fair, this movie is what did it first. Blame the New 52 movies for making it a painful trend
dc just hates to see nightwing winning
Well considering the fact that Nightwing has been raped it's clear that DC is more than happy to make him suffer.
@@smileifyoulikedick *Dan Didio hates Nightwing anything
From what I was told, it came out that a hater rigged his phone to repeatedly call the "kill Jason Todd" number.
Btw, I'm with you a %100 on the killing of the Joker.
I agree the city of Gotham should give him the death penalty (if that's legal in whatever state Gotham is in) but Batmans no killing rule is more about his personal values than the law
@@jamescallanan2443 Gotham is canonically in the state of New Jersey, where the South side would be in reality.
@@jamescallanan2443 alot of Jokers crimes extend beyond Gotham and even if the state didn’t have the death penalty other states or even countries hes committed crimes in might.
Look at injustice, Joker detonated a nuke in metropolis that doesn’t become a state level crime anymore, it probably is a military trial due to usage of a wmd and the military CAN execute a criminal, its rare but they still can do it.
So in theory if the Joker ever attacked a military base they could demand to be the ones to conduct the trial and the city of Gotham could acquiesce to get around them not having a death penalty.
"Fans are brutal"
Truer words were never written
Jeremy's question of how Red Hood could survive that 40-foot jump should've been answered when he fires multiple guns without experiencing any recoil at all clearly he's got something more than most humans have, also it always makes me happy when people mention how skilled Jason is and his Lazarus enhancements, great job Birdman!
Even as a Batman fan boy I am always annoyed when I hear the “Batman can beat anyone” Batman can do a lot when he knows what he’s up against but that doesn’t mean he can’t lose that’s like one of the big reasons he helped make the justice league if I remember correctly to deal with problems that required a team of hero’s. Sorry for rambling anyway I enjoyed the video
the commentary night wing makes is actually a good thing in reality even though this isnt based on it calling out what happens during a battle light skirmish or fight especially one where you risk your life is absolutely vital because you cannot see everything happening around you if your focused on an individual or small group that is either actively or inactively a threat . telling your friends whats going on even if they have witnessed it will still inform them of where the most important threat is . And if someone says that there is a sniper . Don't know about you but if I'm running around with throwing knives and I'm whithin target distance of someone who is practiced in marksmanship that shit is a pretty big threat.
Okay nobody panic, I'm here to see the show.
Batman hasn't killed Joker because he knows he's insane and killing Joker would basically turn him into a more brutal version of The Punisher, and that's not who Batman (or any of his friends/family) wants to be. As for the City of Gotham, yeah they have no excuse for not executing the Joker.
if you wanna look at examples of it, look at the batman-who-laughs and the grim knight.
i bet you bruce has nightmares about them because they are what he fears he could turn into.
The City of Gotham apparently isn't into the death penalty, but have dropped the ball quite a few times if they are.
Even if they were though, legally The Joker is not mentally fit to stand trial and you cannot sentence a man to death if they're of that persuasion.
Now vigilante cops who want the Joker dead, that's a whole other story!
But do you think that's fair for the families who have lost their loved ones because of the joker and Batman/Gotham disregard to kill him. If it was your family you had lost due to a mad man who had constantly been escaping prison/asylum and someone who has to power to end it forever just didn't would you feel the same way?
@@Duality2222-2
Watch Shaun’s video on the death penalty, where he roasts that asshole Dennis Prager, or play the injustice games and see where that mentality leads you (Regime Superman).
Batman doesn't kill the Joker or any other villain in his rogue gallery because he wouldn't have purpose if he did. They go in and out of Arkham like a revolving door just to kill more citizens when they get out. The justice system in Gotham clearly doesn't work. Jason did more for Gotham in a month than Bruce did his entire career dawning the cowl.
Jensen Ackles did a pretty solid job in this too. Hope he does more VA work soon.
i hear he's gonna be batman in the upcoming animated feature!
He played batman in The long halloween adaptation and he was fantastic
Sin 15: Not to mention, most of these characters ALL have ties to Batman. Joker and Ra's are Batman's greatest enemies (Joker due to being Batman's complete opposite, and Ra's being Batman's equal), and Jason and Dick are basically his kids. Amazo is the only character without any ties to Batman, and even then the movie explains who and what he is.
Also, it's not really fair to compare an animated solo movie to an entry in the DCEU. One is a self-contained movie while the other is a film that fell victim to a LOT of extenuating circumstances, like WB enforcing a stupid 90 minute screentime restriction and Zack Snyder having to leave the film after his daughter died.
Fuck WB.
This film wasn’t released theatrically, it was released direct to video so the writers knew the audience would at least be familiar with who these characters are, given they’ve appeared in various media like the very popular DCAU. As for Red Hood, his storyline is the main plot of the movie.
this is the first video i've watched from you, but the amount of spite you have fuels me. also the funion bit made me cackle.
Welcome to the fold, Blue.
I find it funny that Jeremy sins the movie because it “makes no sense” that the Joker would give Jason a chance to escape yet fails to mention that the Joker locked the door. He didn’t give Jason a chance to escape.
10:38 "some white dude from jersey" Birdman really knows his comics, for those that don't know, Gotham is in jersey
@@kadelin3318 I know you're calling to the cinemasins joke, but honestly I don't see the connection, how could you even remotely get a racist connotation out of what I said
Oh, holy cow! I had no idea Cinema Sins had done a video about this, and I've actually been on a massive kick of reading (and now writing!) stories centered around the Batfamily and particularly Jason's relationship to his adoptive siblings and father. And Under the Red Hood was a movie I was fond of even prior to that! (And may I just say-I am SO glad they changed that stupid concept of having Bruce "We don't kill here" Wayne slice his own severely traumatized son's throat with a Batarang. To save the motherflipping JOKER.)
Can't friggin' WAIT to see your take on their vid! Too Goddarned excited. 😁👏👏👏🔥
18:05 I think it's less that he didn’t have countermeasures (and he definitely does in at least some versions) and more that Jason was exceptionally good when it came to this type of work (desperation + experience is a pretty intense teacher) and this is part of what impressed Bruce from the beginning. And I don't know how canon this is, but I've seen references to the idea that this took place on the anniversary of his parents' death and that's why Bruce was there. If so, it's possible he let his guard slip and didn't mind security measures as much as he normally would.
15:30 It's also very much worth mentioning that here he's dealing with an extremely emotionally charged situation. He was utterly devastated before at the grief of losing a child, and now he's dealing with both the shock of realizing he's been resurrected and the horror and confusion at seeing how very unhappily this reunion is playing out thus far. He's not at the top of his game here mentally, at least for a bit.
In a sort of related note, one thing I'm liking about the "Beware the Batman" show (and I saw others reference this, as well) is that they're willing to show a young Bruce getting his tail kicked quite a bit. He's still very competent and all, but he also has a great deal to learn and really has to work for his victories!
Update: Kobe Gassock was kind enough to make a quick correction here in reply to this comment. It's been a while since I last watched the film, and I thought the clip was from one of the moments where he's having a flashback and superimposing Jason's younger self onto his older self. But the scene shown at the time stamp was from when Jason was actually still alive in his younger days, which means that in this particular case it was just the factor of being distracted with trying to save his kid and keep him from running into a trap. But not the grief that occurred later.
The scene you linked to was before Jason died so he wasn't dealing with any grief.
@@kobeglasscock7377 Ahh, okay. Thanks for the correction! It's been a while since I last watched the film, and I thought the clip was from one of the moments where he's having a flashback and superimposing Jason's younger self onto his older self. So that means it was just the factor in this particular case of being distracted with trying to save his kid and keep him from running into a trap. I'll add a note to my original comment. 👍 Again, thanks for the catch!
4:40 "Batsplaining." Okay, without even getting into the term this is derived from…the dude literally ASKED what Amazo was. Because…✨he didn't know.✨
I guess we're about to have "teachersplaining" every time a student raises his or her hand to ask a question. 🤣
I swear Jeremy seems so ignorant that if he'd do a cw univers thing about Constantine he'd say "casting a blonde dude to play Keanu reeves, that's worth 10 sins"
16:33
And, to disregard Jeremy's "source material doesn't matter" rule for a moment, in the comics, Jason actually wasn't brought back by the Lazarus Pit. Talia Al Ghul found him after he came back to life and that's how he got dunked in the magic soda.
several years ago I watched this with my frailly (mom, brother, sister) and it is my mom's favorite animated movie hands down...to the point that it is now a Christmas tradition that we watch this movie on Christmas - started by my mother
Oh, my goodness, that's so awesome! 😁🤣👌👌👌
did you watch it this christmas
@vena0214 we watched it on Thanksgiving. Christmas, we saw Sonic 3 and then went to eat at a restaurant.
A fresh Birdman video is a perfect way to end a good Sunday.
I'm so surprised CinemaSins did an animated DC movie, I wonder if they'll try to do Long Halloween cause I'm sure your video on that would be just as good. And I've honestly always liked this Jokers laugh
They did a lot of animated DC movies.
They've also done Hush, Hell to Pay and Flashpoint. Don't know of they've done any others. And Birdman did a video about their Flashpoint video
@@jamescallanan2443
And he stopped the video well before the end because of the ridiculous bullshit in it.
I love that I've watched enough of your videos to be at the point where I said "You padding the sin count, bro?" as soon as I heard the crunch.
Jeremy's whole schtick is "damned if you do, damned if you don't"
Honestly I do find the joker an interesting character, but while it'd mean no more stories (at least till a reboot or resurrection happens) about the joker will happen I agree. Heck batman beyond didn't have a joker except for the movie and it was still good
I miss 2016 in the comics when Joker was only appearing in flashbacks.
I think a story of Batman dealing with Joker's death could be interesting, as their dynamic isn't only about Joker. The two main times it was done it kind of underwhelmed me because he was dealing with other things at the same time. It would have to be an elseworld story though, because if Joker actually died there would be an uproar.
This is my 2nd fav animated Batman movie, after Mask of the Phantasm. He hasn't sinned Mask of the Phantasm yet, has he?
Unfortunately, he did sin it.. 2 years ago
@@adrianc9627 did Birdman do a video on Mask of Phantasm
@@Teatime7771 No, he didn't.. I was referring to the Cinema Sins video on Mask of the Phantasm
I just don't get why CinemaSins feels the need to manipulate scenes just to create a sin. I'd respect them more if they just padded the sin count with their cringy jokes. They aren't funny to most people, but at least someone would laugh at them, I guess.
This is probably my single biggest peeve. And it kind of connects to this whole problem of trying to defend their work as not being meant to be taken seriously: they mix in serious criticism with the other aspects. And it's bad enough when they make points that make no sense and try to frame them as being legitimate. But to deliberately deceive the audience by editing scenes to make them seem worse or less logical than they actually are is a really lousy move for both the audience and the film/filmmakers. Even for a film I despise, I'd want the criticism to be based on what the movie actually did or didn't do, not made-up and falsified stuff. That accomplishes nothing good-quite the opposite.
Cinemasins: wait, who dis? Who dat?
Cinemasins 5 minutes later: TOO MUCH EXPOSITION
This exactly! XD
I really like both Hammil’s and DiMaggio’s Joker voices, they both have a certain air of terrifying-ness to them
Love how much birdman is finally letting his disbelief and utter bafflement show, he's usually more reserved in the face of utter stupidity
19:16 I'm glad you held gotham responible for Joker as well. Most people solely blame batman, but I would say the justice system of Gotham is more responsible for not properly handling the Joker when he's handed to them on a silver platter by Batman.
Gotham was built, founded, and run by mob families and evil cults for centuries. People always underestimate how corrupt a city it really is. The powers that be aren't going to make change easy for Gotham. That's why Bruce Wayne alone could never have done much good. He'd have been bought, blackmailed, mind-controlled, or--if all else failed--assassinated.
Sin #70: The laser pointer could have easily been seen on the glass.
So Jeremy doesn’t know shit about glass.
Honestly Dimaggio is probably my favorite voice for the Joker. Don't get me wrong Hamill is great but I just enjoy Dimaggio's performances more
Edited: For grammar mistakes
John is one of the most versatile voice actors in the industry. He does Marcus Fenix, Joker and Bender-- three beloved and couldn't-be-more-different characters. The man is talented as hell.
Yea he is. And I jus found out recently he voiced Hammerhead in the OG Spectacular Spider-man show and in the Spider-man Shattered Dimensions video game.
@@theboywholaughs5253 wait he voiced hammerhead! That's cool. The guy has some serious talent.
Wheat about Troy Baker?
14:28
Black mask does not have a nose. Therefore, him looking at or noticing his own *chin* is very logical.
It’s been a while since I saw this movie, and the only thing I remember is my favorite part; Joker killing Black Mask’s guards, starting by using a glass of water.
Love the vids man
Never realised how similar John and Mark's laughs were. Also, you missed the fact that Jeremy said that Joker gave Robin a chance to escape, despite the fact that the bombs were on a short timer and he's locked the door. After being assaulted by Joker for an hour, there was no chance he could have escaped.
Sin #46: The ending of the movie even shows that Black Mask is ultimately able to stay out of jail. THAT'S how well-connected he is.
5:21
Also, surprise! This is a BATMAN movie. All of these characters are related to batman, and therefore have at least some thread to the story. Batman is Jason's father figure, and failed to protect him, Jason is the main character, Night Wing is Jason's adopted eldest brother, Joker is Batman's biggest villain and also who killed Jason, Ra's Al Ghoul is the one who hired the joker, and resurrected Jason, and is also the father to Talia Al Ghoul, who is the mother (kind of) to Damian Wayne, who is Jason's younger brother. This makes perfect sense.
Birdman: "Why did the Jeremy fall out of the tree? Because I killed him! Ha ha haaa! And so... I beat him to death with a crowbar!"
Apparently there was a comic where Grayson killed the Joker, and Batman frickin' resuscitated him! I get that Batman has his code or whatever, but goodness the Joker definitely shouldn't have been saved.
Got to admit I may agree with Jason on that one.
It was before Todd's resurrection and after Barbara's paralayses. Grayson believed that Tim died because of the Joker. The Joker even provocated Grayson for losing 2 brothers. So, he actually tried to kill him twice but Batman stopped him the first time and resuscitated him the second time.
Grayson ended up having some mental issues after he realised that Tim was alive. He felt awful for trying to kill a man, and at the fact that it felt good he did it.
He should have taken a page out of Wally's book. Bart's clone killed Bart so Wally, instead of killing a kid, took all his speed(it would have taken him a century to blink) and made him a statue in the Flash museum looking at Bart's exhibit. Dooming him to look at something he will never be
@@kadelin3318 Not Joker specifically, but a human in general. He said it felt good to kill the Joker but he didn't want to take a life. And I'm pretty sure that's why Batman saved Joker, it was for Nightwing, though I still think the Joker is Batman's responsibility and Bruce should be the one to kill him. Or atleast not trying to save him from Todd. Hell, at this point I want Damian to kill him. Atleast these two Robins are used to killing and would gladly do it
5:50 The real sin is that the criminals somehow know that NightWing is the first Robin. The thing about Robin is that, through the criminals perspective, has been one person.
And how do they know that each Robin is a different person, yet somehow dont piece together their identities. Bruce Wayne adopts four boys, each whose age corresponds with the Robins?
19:12 I gotta agree as well. There’s no saving Joker. He’s a terrorist, a sadist, a mass murderer, an insane, a mentally unstable man, a cruel person, and a lot of other things. Batman, NightWing, City of Gotham including the GCPD are all at fault for the Joker continuing to survive only to cause more harm. Honestly, so what if someone tortured the Joker inhumanely or killed him as he was in extreme suffering? Theres no such thing as going too far with torturing or killing the Joker after all the things he’s done.
The dc streets been waiting for this one
Also, even if the Lazarus Pit could revive people without issue, and death was the only stake a story could have, the Lazarus Pit is controlled by Ra's al Ghul, who would not just let anyone use the Lazarus Pit whenever. He only used it on Jason because letting Joker kill him violated his personal code of honor, and he wanted to atone for that.
2:10 not to mention that Jason is probably crippled and has mutiple broken bones so even if he somehow got out of the ropes he definitely wouldn’t get away in time
yeah, I'll admit to once being in that "batman beats everyone" phase. It took me a year to come to terms with the fact that batman is built for stealth combat and not 1v1 fights
You can’t exactly say the books don’t matter when this movie was direct to dvd, because it was made for the fans. It’s not like it’s a blockbuster film made for the masses.
Also, why does Jeremy think that Ra’s knew Robin would be targeted by Joker when no Robin had ever been targeted by the joker before? The Joker is crazy sure but he hadn’t done anything like personally and senselessly beat a child to death yet at that point in time.
My favorite batman line from the comics is: Lying in a pool of my own blood and vomit. Yes. This is the way to strike fear in the hearts of heart of criminals.
My favorite DC Animated movie, I'm looking forward to this.
I agree that anyone can beat anyone with enough prep time.
Hell even Batman can be beat with with prep time. Just think about anything and everything that can beat you and set up things that can stop that and you have beaten Batman
It’s always interesting to remember that the existence of this movie/the storyline it’s adapting all started because the fans wanted to kill Jason Todd
Do you think something like that could ever happen again? Fans voting on a character dying?
@@jamescallanan2443 not to this extent where it played a major impact on Jason Todd as a character
11:02 Yup! The screenshot you showed earlier noted that Jason and the Batfam perform at levels not only equal to but ABOVE those of Olympic-level athletes. Not every average Joe, even in the DCverse, is anywhere near that good!
Regarding the Lazarus Pit:
Does Jeremy really think Ra's will just let anyone use his pits? The head of the Demon
Big Batman fan here. Yes, you are correct. Batman can be caught off guard. That's what's so cool about Batman is he's only human. Batman is a master strategist, and escapologist. Its cool to see him put in sticky situations and see how he gets out of them. The only thing that irritates me is when people say he needs prep time to fight everyone he comes across.
I can't believe it, CinemaSins had the balls, THE BALLS TO SIN THIS MASTERPIECE OF ANIMATION AND BATMAN STORYTELLING
I mean he also sinned Empire strikes back and the John wick films so we can't really call it balls. At this point arrogance is a better word.
This is a brilliant counterpoint video, my friend. I love CinemaSins myself. I commented on their video about the Deadpool movie that some of their Sins were actually Wins. Replies said that they just did not know the source content and other things. One comment got me to go from bitter to smiling with even a giggle. CinemaSins is a comedy channel. They are more concerned with making most of us laugh and not just the fans of the source materials.
That's actually pretty smart on their side.
Oh... and PLEASE do correction videos like this FOREVER! You are doing a great service to the minority of CinemaSins fans, making fans of the source materials both smile and laugh. THANKS!
Bruh thanks for the alert RUclips.
A whole half a day late.
Seriously, Imagine using Death battle as a source.
Did we somehow get sent back in time to 2013?
If we are quick i have several things to warn people about
Oh, I've been waiting for this one. One of my favorite dc animated films 😊😊
14:30. Jeremy hasn't tried to shine a laser through a window before. Granted it's been a while since I've seen this movie and I can't remember if the window was pre-broken or not.
Y'know, this video, and the part about iconic characters in particular, shows why we don't need "origin stories" in movies for Batman, Superman, Joker, etc, they're so recognizable, so well-known, so retold, that origin stories aren't needed, most people know/understand the basics of Batman/Superman (and Joker's own origin(s) are so muddied that giving him a concrete one is unnecessary), thus you can just jump right into the main story/action, the origin is not needed unless the film is doing something different with the character's origins
Amazing as always, Birdman! My favourite parts were you eating funnions and the Batman facepalm!
I'm a simple man I see birdman and Jason Todd and I click
HECK YES. 😎😁👌
This was perfectly timed for me, as I'm super into stuff in this vein right now, and I already loved Birdman's videos even before then.
This is the Cinemasins video that turned me to the birdman side thank you for pointing out their flaws
Just finished watching Titans s3 so this was perfectly timed (absolute legend lmao thanks for the timing) but I just realised how much they took inspiration from this for their new season
At least I know that Batman could take a fight with Aberham Lincon and Godzilla with no prep time
Sadly there was nothing he could do to keep his head from being crushed between Chuck Norris' thighs.
Cinemasins when an insane character acts irrationally :
😮
Sin #45: The guy explaining this is explaining this to a new hire to Black Mask's organization who clearly doesn't know anything about the guy, so of COURSE he would need an explanation. It's a clever way of explaining things to the audience without having to deliver this exposition unprompted.
The whole "Batman can defeat anyone, with prep time" is absurd, because it neglects the fact that it also allows his adversary time to prepare, as well. Considering there's some characters smarter than BM (like: Lex, Brainiac, Mr Terrific), he shouldn't stand a chance against them (if we're going off the whole "I can beat you with prep time, because I'm smarter" argument). & I don't blame Batman for not "putting down the clown", when Gotham has literal judges, juries, & executioners. That whole argument is rather absurd to me. Otherwise it'd give GCPD officers carte blanche to basically kill any criminal (if they can "convince" themselves it's for "the greater good").
I don't mean to sound like I'm correcting u, ur right! But the only man on earth smarter than bruce is lex. Lex is the smartest man on the planet, Bruce is second, and mister terrific is third. Brainiac is another story xD he's not from earth so I could either say he's the smartest in the galaxy or put him as like the 1st or 2nd smartest in DC lore
Me: I'm going to go to bed at a decent hour and get...
Birdman: Let me stop you right there: Under the Red Hood
Th3Birdman understands comics.
dimaggio is my second favorite portrayal of the joker
i wish he’d play him more
My favorite part is the fact BM got funions for the bit. Love the commitment lmao
I love Jason Todd so much it hurts
i used to be a cinema sins fanboy until I watched your EWW S-M:Homecoming vid and you talk so much about the stuff that i thought about when watching cinema sins like Jeremy's funny SOMETIMES but u truly show just how incompetent he is when it comes to as his channel says SINNING CINEMA. I enjoy your content so much more and seeing as how you accurately describe how a REAL SIN is put in the correct context shows just how much more of a passion you have for cinema, gaming, and just comics in general. You are an amazing content creator and only want CS to keep making vids so i can watch you cover them forever a sub .
Merry Christmas my guy, hope all is well.
P.S. ALL THE CINEMA SINS D RIDERS QUIT WITH THE COMMENTS YALL SOUND JUST AS DENSE AS JEREMY XD
"leave Robin alive and give Robin a chance to escape"
except he didn't give a chance to Robin to escape? He locked the door and wanted to give Robin false hope that he can escape
Day 75 of telling th3birdman I appreciate his content. You know it's going to be good when we got doom music in the intro
Hey Birdman, how're things?
The RUclips algorithm saved me from Cinema Sins when they suggested Th3Birdman
Dude, Birdman, this shit had me laughing so hard!! You are fucking hilarious!! Love the roasting of this man Jeremy! Keep it up!
Sir. That Funyuns response-magnificent.
Deadpool, Rick, Morty, the fictional Will Smith who once questioned why there was no ceiling in a Fresh Prince episode, and ALL the Tunes from Looneyland would be proud of that fourth wall break!
I’m a huge Batman fan. I love when he gets caught off guard, when he loses a fight, when he can’t break through solid iron. I love it because it makes him fallible and makes him feel more human
Ooofff holy shit. Thanks for the great morning. Also first.