@@johntitor1256 darth bane invested a credit into Republic cyber coin when he founded the rule of two. It's worth 999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999 Bazillion dollars.
Can we just pretend that the Victory Star Destroyers were properly scaled and were simply decommissioned, refitted models from the Empire's Navy? That makes SO much more sense.
I mean they never say in the movie how he got this fleet... so if you ignore the books and stuff you can just say this is true. After all, you shouldn't need books to understand the story right?
That’s what I originally thought until the interviews afterwards. And it would have made sense with the Imperial Fleet disappearing. Should have been battle droids operating the ships. Hundreds of thousands of crew chilling out under the ice the whole time? Where’s my ‘bullshit card’?
@@davidkippy101 the books are megafan attempts to make excuses for shit writers not knowing what they were doing. The actual cost of the fleet was CGI editors and a lot of weed.
Now just imagine the REAL cost if they were all the Eclipse, you know, the original star destroyer ship that needed to be HUGE to actually fit a smaller version on the death star laser cannon.
To me it didn't really seem like a Death Star superlaser but more like the cannon in TLJ which used death star technology where the first beam cuts to the core, and then the pulse is fired, while the Death Star immidiatly destroyed a planet which requires way more power.
While we know Xystons are not retrofitted Imperial-Is (they're too big), I think a kernel of the "mysteriously disappeared Imperial fleet" theory might still be true. If Palpatine had put thousands of Star Destroyers in storage in the Unknown Regions (perhaps as they became obsolete and newer ones were created), then the Sith Eternal could have scrapped and recycled them. They obviously couldn't use 1-to-1 parts, but they'd have enormous amounts of durasteel, wiring and other raw materials to use, which would bring the materials cost down a lot. That would also make the Xyston a dark counterpart to the New Republic Starhawk, which I find fitting.
If I was Palpatine in that scenario I'd have just been like "I'm probably gonna die a second time trying this but fuck it, I'm going to hide one somewhere else in the system and if everything goes to shit I will just order it to jump overhead and kill us all"
Sci-fi writers tend to care, at least a little, about the worlds they create. Hollywood writers only care about dumping flashy shit on screen, collecting their paycheck and moving on to the next project.
Palpatine must be really rich because not only did he fund the exegol fleet, but the first order fleet with bases, shipyards, weapon cache and then possibly having to pay them all and keep them all fed, medical and housing. Great video
I think he gets all his money from his supporters. Apparently, Sith loyalists existed within mega corporations (KDY, SFS). So they could afford the amount. They would have to be extremely rich people, not just some manager.
@@hudson7385 Cool, but did nobody in the new republic or first order ever wonder why KDY was sending so many resources and ships to the unknown region and to one specific planet that the visual guide or novel or something that the first order had knowledge of exegol. Just saying
@@BoisegangGaming lol and millions of sith eternal live underground or in the star destroyers and are all healthy somehow by the fact they live on a sith planet that has lightning everywhere and sand waiting for their master to use the force to lift them above the dirt and the star destroyers somehow take no damage even if the movie says they have no shields and are being hit by the planets lightning.
From the new Darth Vader comic (issue 11 I believe) that palpatine was already in production of those ships as early as 3 ABY on Exegol. So he had not only those ships being built but also the second Death Star as well.
Eck: The Exegol fleet of the Final Order was costly. Me: No, really? It's only 25,000 massive battle stations, each with the capability to destroy an entire planet.
Yeah. I mean, the chances in the star wars galaxy to accidentily stumble upon an army capable to conquer the galaxy is quite high. I mean, Obi-Wan discovered two armies in one day. And he didnt pay anything. Id say that this army was just lying around and Palpatine found it by accident and decided to just go with it
Also, it is unlikely that he stumbled upon this naval armada, because they are each the most Palpatine weapons that I could think of. A Star Destroyer-Death Star combo.
The star forge is the only possible lore explanation to how a single fucking hidden planet has a fleet to match the empire at is height. Of course we know the real life explanation. The Hollywood writers the mouse hired have absolutely no regard for world building, internal consistently or basic logic. They only care about dumping shit on the screen, collecting their paycheck and moving on to the next project.
Wait now I have so many more questions. If they had 10,000 plus ships, why was the navigation tied into one navigation control ship? and only one ground unit? How effective is the automation? How did they lose when they had so many ships?
This right here is the only problem I've got with the SW franchise. Numbers. A billion "Sith" killed in a single battle - which is a horrific thing to think about - yet we have that utterly stupid ratio of Clones to Clankers during the Clone Wars. Anyway, great video Eck. Nice work.
@@papapalps2415 And that's my issue. Around the time of the prequel trilogy, there was a creative think-tank making sure major plot points were done/released in the right order. Yet despite this, the true figures are very hard to find (if at all) with some writers making things up in their books that don't match what's said elsewhere. Of course, the GAR numbers were huge. And it's possible to somewhat guestimate the figures by going through all the material and adding everything together. But for someone like me who doesn't fall blind to "ten people is a tragedy, ten million is a statistic," I would have really liked some proper stuck-to numbers when it came to the Clone Wars.
@@papapalps2415 I wouldn't have minded if there weren't any numbers at all. As I said, a nerd can do the maths by combing through everything if they really wanted to, but the problem is that they tried to pretend that there WERE some hard numbers at play. Heck, I'm pretty sure Labyrinth of Evil still makes the 1m Clones as being the "reality" right before the RotS! And of course, the CW series doesn't help here. The Clones are portrayed as also being the crew of the GAR's ships which as you said, pushes the numbers into the billions even without taking into account the backroom staff, other support crews and the non-Clone members.
@@papapalps2415 Sorry, I couldn't help myself. Ok but seriously, I haven't read Dark Empire, it just seems really funny to me that Eck is pretty much the only Star Wars fan I know of that likes Dark Empire and then The Rise of Skywalker does the same thing (ie Palpatine comes back with a sith armada) and Eck just absolutely hates it. I remember Dark Empire getting laughed out of the old Expanded Universe. And honestly, not being sarcastic at all here, I genuinely think Rise of Skywalker is the best of the new trilogy. Plus Star Wars has always been goofy/stupid/nonsensical so I'm not a fan of "ooh this doesn't make sense" kind of talk about Star Wars in general.
I always assumed he used droids and clone labor. It’s also way easier to cut down on costs when you have, you know, space to find near infinite resources. My guess is each of those ships had skeleton crews and were run mostly by Droids. Especially since he buried them once they were completed. That said I found that if you change the name to Byss and the emperor’s lighting to battle meditation the whole third act gets at least 40% cooler.
Everything is in space. I mean maybe the big planet busters may need Kyber crystals or something but the rest of the ship seems more or less as Eckhart described. Tractor beam some asteroids into moons to bust’em up then start smelting. I’m guessing the Sith aren’t to fussy about the environment either.
@@Therosx , *Sigh* That's not even an accurate description on how to make a fleet. You need the ships to crash the asteroids together, you need the ships to transport the parts to the smelter... you need to manufacture the tools, to make the tools, to make the parts for the lasers/generators, etc. You then need the parts to be shipped to the shipyards, that's after you build the ship yards to accommodate building hundreds of ships simultaneously... You need the population to man all of that, and man all the ships, and you need a population to manage the housing, and _food_ requirements... The Sith Eternal doesn't have the capacity/population to do any of the above.
@@papapalps2415 That's argueable, the power of the First Order ships makes it so that it doesn't need extreme numbers. 1 resurgeant holds the firepower of an entire fleet.
@@papapalps2415 Not really, most system defence forces probably has like 10 ships at most. Heavy Cruisers are probably the biggest ships that they have. They probably would need 1 Resurgeant for each small defence force, planets Coruscant might have larger defence forces so just send 5 Resurgeants and they will most likely not suffer a single casualties.
@@papapalps2415 the first order resurgent classes were extremely heavily armed so a single one deployed to a core system could probably take it, fighter squadrons and cruisers could overwhelm huge swaths of the galaxy as PDF forces would likely surrender once space falls (usually just a few corvettes a fighters to contest orbit) especially if you consider large amounts of the galaxy would have surrenders to the first order in fear. but the first order simply wouldn't be able to grab that much space in that much time so it would be more likely and realistic that the first order had large chunks of the galaxy in its boarder but must of them were just under siege not direct control. the empire had over 25,000 ISD's and it says in the force awakes visual dictionary that the first order fleet is too small to rival that of the Galactic empires which was made up out of 25K ISD'S. and even when you consider that the first order fleet is made up also of EX imperial ships it would tell you that they have a pitiful number of resurgent class ships and that the only way they are able to be a serious threat is because of the new republic disarmament. but if you think about it he says resources not ships implying that the final order has an excess of resources and materials but not the places to construct the ships which is why they need to link up
@@papapalps2415 first things first wow man that was amazing to read and I appreciate the lore depth in that response, usually by this points its devolved into childish screaming anyway The resurgent in all textbooks its the most heavily armed ship of its size ever constructed (I think) a single SSD usually could project power in a large area of space solo as it was armed with around 4K-5K turbolasers of various classes making it extremely powerful and a significant threat to even core systems of the Galaxy, while it would need backup to take on a core system it could realistically do it. a single resurgent however is armed with 1.5K turbolasers and ion cannon emplacements meaning that just 3 Resurgent ISD's would have approximately the same amount of power as an SSD in a more balanced and manoeuvrable frame. now while planetary defences would be absolutely overwhelming on a core world planet a significant fleet like the one we see in last Jedi which is at lease 20 resurgent's about 10 of would by all logic would be able to overwhelm a core defence if it lacked a significant orbital presence and even then pose a threat. not only that the first order would have had at least (in my mind) 5 mandator IV siege dreadnought which seem to drastically outrange standard weapons on a orbital fleet as we see over D,quar. combine this with the resurgents firepower and they would have posed a significant threat to planetside defences and even shield generators possible being able to overload segments of it or take down parts of the shield to land troops on a planet. plus the first order would have had ex imperial ISD's and frigates to bolster its line and smaller ships like Carraks, lancers and raiders which could have gone missing unnoticed by the NR when they were too busy hunting down ISD's. like at the end of the novel lost stars it speaks of imperial fleets made of support ships, ISD's and strike cruisers (venators) hiding in unknown regions which likely would have joined up with the eclipse (aftermath empires end) and formed the beginnings of the first order. but the First order didn't only have resurgent and Ex imperial ships making up its line as they had their own support ships like the first order light cruiser that a resurgent would travel with, while they were lightly armed they could act as a fighter screening ship and bolster the line of the first order fleet. other imperial ships would have been the Maxima heavy cruiser which could be deployed to mid rim and outer rim systems to project power and even the first order cruiser referenced to have crashed in Rise of skywalker which could not have been a resurgent as the first order would have gone looking for it. so yes I will acknowledge that the first order likely did have a Fuck off huge fleet but not enough to reign control over the entire galaxy and they likely were at this point trying to mobilise ground forces to claim the planets they had orbital control of. also the whole galaxy would not be realistic in a few weeks as areas such as hutt space, the hapes and the CSA would likely be left untouched by the first order. the way I see it the first order navy controlled most of the galaxy and was waiting for the army to catch up and occupy the planets. they likely did sweep large portions of the outerim and tingel arm however with relativly small fleets maybe a few Star destroyers of various classes and support ships, like in the truce at Bakura where a Carrak and a few lancers are able to hold the planet (albeit with the rebels help) against a larger ship, first order likely had only around 1000-3000 resurgent class ships with the rest being made up of possible tens of thousands of smaller ships from the corvette to the cruiser designation. BTW I am really enjoying this as it feels like I'm having a debate not an argument
@@papapalps2415 They took the major systems in a week which means the core Worlds which is basically one Hyperspace lane from the unknown regions. Obviously the first order wouldn't invade the entire Galaxy, the Republic controlled its territory with only a few hundred ships. The key is to take the Core Worlds. That will basically give you access to all major Hyperspace lanes which gives many more systems reason to fear you because you have an easy way of attacking them. Also the Local defence forces aren't usually that impressive, the defence forces we've seen with warships are the Umbarans and the defence fleet in the new Canon Thrawn triology. And the one in the Thrawn triology only had 2 CR90s. Obviously there are Cannons like the one in Echo Base, but the first order has the technology to make weapons that goes through shields.
The most confusing part of that fleet wasn't the fleet itself but the manpower required to build and run it. How did they get that many people in so little time?
Hey esckharts why don't you do an episode on the ships of stellaris! Im mean they do have everything you like in these kinda things, modular design, having ships complementing each other, not to mention the different types of ships. Not only that you have been streaming it lately so I thought it would be nice!
I mean, 10,000 Star destroyers, even without shields should have won the rag-tag resistance fleet just by attrition. Also by this point you're going to need Spaarti cloning to have any hope of manning these.
Volume is only a valid metric for very basic components; hulls, corridors, wiring, that sort of thing. When you get into the more advanced components like central computer systems, reactors, or that big superlaser, it's fair to say they would add a disproportionate amount of cost relative to their increase in volume.
Have you done a video on an analysis of the aftermath of the Halo-Covenant war? How many colonies were left, How much of the navy on either side was left, how much the covenant suffered as well as Humanity, and maybe even what we know about the Human colonies that ARE left. Do we have any information on the refugees that have survived through the war?
I would’ve had basically kept them the same except maybe reduce the implied numbers a bit so it’s not so ridiculous Have the ships themselves incorporate elements from various Star destroyer types over the years And probably only have one or 2 planet killers Or failing that just add some scaled up venator along with the scaled up ISDs
That estimated cost isn't so bad considering that each ship had the destructive capability of a death star. One of Palp's better investments, although none will top the Clone Army. Very value for money that one was!
Another thing to consider is larger ships are harder to make: a battleship needs a different drydock compared to a smaller ship, and in starwars I’m guessing that stays true. It ALSO would have better systems (diagrams say frontal tractor cannons and such) plus the cost of all the reactor fuel. 900,000,000 crew is also hard to feed. 900,000,000 is close to the population of corusant. So the yearly material intake of the most trade intensive planet in the galaxy.
To be fair, that's the size of fleet that should be in the average SW sector, let alone across the galaxy. For a private fleet it seems fine, ish, assuming there is some kinda manufacturing base underneath or around exogal.
@The Video Nasty Project @S P And can blow up easily if you hit said superlaser. I've seen more logical designs from people playing Kerbal Space Program. A game where half the fun involves exploding spaceships that are poorly designed.
Palpatine must have used Honey for a discount. Also would it have been more practical to just refit Imperial-class Star Destroyers with the axial superlaser? Cheaper too.
Honestly that number is probably a baseline if there were more than 10,000 planet killers. Also that would up the casualties to well over a billion. Sidious would have been more successful just putting that into the first order.
Would've been cool to compare the cost to our world, using examples of costs of meals people buy in canon/legends, etc. Harder to find an analog for an ISD on earth, but food is an easy analog for comparison
Out of curiosity, not being a KOTOR fan, how much could the Star Forge make out of one star? If it could do a similar amount, then, if you'll excuse a Legends/Canon comparison, that would indicate that it is actually plausible for one fully-exploited star system to supply the materials for a galaxy-spanning fleet. Obviously (probably?) Palpatine would not have Rakatan levels of resource-exploiting technology, but he did have 30 years to get it done in.
Regardless of what you think of the movie, seeing star destroyers rising outta the ice with lightning striking the ice it comes out of is honestly terrifying and awesome.
It's a great *visual.* But if you actually THINK about it for more than 2 seconds, its incredibly stupid. But that's what most modern movies are these days, arent they? Hollow nonsense that looks good and means nothing. It's the film equivalent of cotton candy.
@@bobw1678 can we go one video without making it about how hollow films are nowadays? Yeah I get it people don’t like it. but I just wanted to say how cool that moment was without turning this into a debate of what’s better than the other. I’m not having a go I just wish this debate happened less, especially when I say something near unrelated to the story at all. 😔
Now, this is by no means canon, but if Palpatine can build TWO Death Stars in secret (the size of small moons), as well as an imperial fleet, it is logical to assume that the fleet at Exogal was probably being funded partially from that. I mean, when you build an ISD, all you need to do is funnel material from that, build it up over time. Same with the Death Stars. I'm sure material was syphoned from those projects for Exogal as well. The Superlaser technology was around for a while, and with no Jedi and control of Ilum, you can easily (relatively speaking) get the Khyber crystals for the weapons. Manufacturing is also easier in Star Wars. The Starhawks were build from gutted Star Destroyers, and even then, they didn't use every part of the ship. So, I'm sure building the general hull would have been relatively easy. Plus, if canon drew on legends and Palpatine was using something like the Star Forge, it makes it reasonable. But, even kotor fluff aside, the building of a ship hull was probably easy. All the pieces were in place. Material funneled in secret to Exogal for decades to build up stores, as well as building secret dry dock. Khyber crystals were a bit harder, but after the Jedi fell, there was about 50 years that you could strip a planet for what you need. So the Sith Eternal fleet doesn't, at least logistically to me, seem improbable or unlikely. I'm still sad the design was uninspired. I would have preferred the Xyston to be the Onnager class that did a very similar thing. But building a flee in secret, that is perfectly in line with Star Wars.
I actually don't agree with the 3x estimate. Usualy ~3.5x volume means more than 3.5x price because you have bigger / more complex parts that can be significantly harder to manufacture. But that isn't my point. This would be somewhat accurate if it was just upscaled ISD, but you're missing the price of that Axial superlaser. If you look at real-world parallels, such a super mega awesome high-tech piece of equipment could rival or exceed the whole ship in terms of cost. Just some food for thought. I won't go into more detail about pricing the whole ship, because personally, I think the whole Xyston is total BS and a disgrace to the depth of the Star Wars universe. BTW great video, as always ;)
I think Palpatine should've invested in a bright red arrow pointing upwards in every room of the ship so everyone knows at any time where "up" is supposed to be.
Considering Palpatine had a Star Forge it was probably considerably cheaper. Then you have to add in the cost of a cloned crew the price does go back up a little
So the fleet costed a bit more but each gave a potential to destroy a planet at a size much smaller than a DS-1 or DS-2. I think they might be worth it but I also feel they'd be more useful to taking out large capital ships instead of planets since I think it's been discussed they have a massive power drain from each shot.
the only thing I would ask about the volume scale up is how much of the extra space is taken up by the super laser's reactor? Kinda like how a cargo ship can have the same system complexity and crew numbers as a ship 1\3 it's size do to being mostly empty cargo space
Thrawn wanted a fleet, Palps wanted a super weapon, this hits both. They are more expensive than Death Star, but with the numerical advantage and the fact that the Empire ruled the galaxy, these would have been more beneficial to the Empire than one Death Star. Plant them over the most important worlds in the Galaxy and the Rebellion wouldnt have much of a chance. Im not gonna go into how those things can blow up a planet, but they do actually make sense for the Empire, with them basicly being a fleet of Death Stars
Sorry, but the bridge is the same size, inside and out, to an original Star Destroyer. That means it is proportional to the rest of the ship, equaling the same size ship. I know the book says it’s larger. But it’s not. They must’ve made a mistake.
@@galadato7425 what if the 4 were linked by some device that would force them to shift any time one of the 4 moves. the 4 would be linked so if one was destroyed the other 3 would have to stop moving and get super close to eachother.
Imagine building a fleet for nearly 30 years for 4.5 trillion and having almost a billion men and it getting destroyed in 10 minutes by some riff raff and a poorly developed Jedi
Gerald R Ford Class Super Carrier per unit cost: $13 Billion USD. Xyston Class Star Destroyer per unit cost: $450 Million Credits. You know if it wasn't for the nav system's inability to simply fly up, and the fragility of it's super cannon, that seems like a fair price for a warship.
The Empire moved heaven and earth to cover up the financial blackhole created by both Death Star constructions. This fleet would have had to be resourced by some other galaxy to make any kind of sense. There is so much lore-gymnastics needed to make the Sequel trilogy make any sort of sense.
He just went to creative mode and spawned all the ships and troopers so it wasn’t that costly.
But for some reason hacked lol
That dosent make a lot of sense though..
@@aaronmikejunior7481 nah it does
He used a duplication exploit in the game.
Or he just had a Gmod Toolgun and spawned a Xyston from spawn menu, then used duplicate tool a shit ton.
Palpatine is actually the only sith to ever learn force increase credit score
Or maybe he invested in ForceCoin back when it was still worth a fraction of a credit.
@@johntitor1256 darth bane invested a credit into Republic cyber coin when he founded the rule of two. It's worth 999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999.999 Bazillion dollars.
Didn't he learn that Force trick after a bunch of teenagers blew up the Death Star with an Aluminum Falcon? (Some of you might get it.) : )
*spamming forcecarbon,forcenova etc. intensifies*
@@BennyLlama39 is it from robot chicken I know I've seen it before but I'm not entirely sure the origin
Palpatine's Force ghost: I will never financially recover from this
He faked his death for tax purposes ;-)
Palpatine’s Force Ghost: I am once again asking for your financial support
Ha 🐯🐯🐯...
"OH, oh, just rebuild it?!?! Really f@&king original!!! And who's going to give me a loan jack hole? You!?!" - Palpatine
Who’s they? What the hell is an aluminum falcon?
Ah, robot chicken...
While we’re at it, anyone wanna do the Boba Fett skit?
@@goroakechi6126 Mr. Bob A. Feet?
Lol
@@goroakechi6126 i think i am one of the only people who actually likes that skit
Palpatine: The Sith are powerful in the ways of the finance...
Luke: Don't you mean force?
Palpatine: Yes, that too
Darth Plagueis was a high-ranking member of the Intergalactic Banking Clan.
Luke: *Kills over 1 million on the Death Star *
Resistance and United Galaxy: *Hold my blue milk *
It's always moral to punch an Imperial
Imperials: *laugh in planet-busting weapons*
Fun fact: star wars probably has the highest amount of deaths of any movies or shows in existance
@@friedrice7876 thanos
@@nutsackreviews Thanos was reversed so technically no
That moment when you spend credits on some new shiney doritos but then some dude who thinks he's Poe Dameron just breaks everything.
Can we just pretend that the Victory Star Destroyers were properly scaled and were simply decommissioned, refitted models from the Empire's Navy? That makes SO much more sense.
I mean they never say in the movie how he got this fleet... so if you ignore the books and stuff you can just say this is true. After all, you shouldn't need books to understand the story right?
@@davidkippy101 droid slave army and a lot of asteroids with resources.
A victory was the size of a venator and there was a lot less and it legends stuff.
That’s what I originally thought until the interviews afterwards. And it would have made sense with the Imperial Fleet disappearing. Should have been battle droids operating the ships. Hundreds of thousands of crew chilling out under the ice the whole time? Where’s my ‘bullshit card’?
@@davidkippy101 the books are megafan attempts to make excuses for shit writers not knowing what they were doing. The actual cost of the fleet was CGI editors and a lot of weed.
We all know Palpatine was on the side walk screaming "BJ's here 1 dollar for BJ's"
Ewww
Palpatine had Bob the Builder with the homie discount to get all these ships built😂😂
Can we build it? Yes Yes we could.
Now just imagine the REAL cost if they were all the Eclipse, you know, the original star destroyer ship that needed to be HUGE to actually fit a smaller version on the death star laser cannon.
To me it didn't really seem like a Death Star superlaser but more like the cannon in TLJ which used death star technology where the first beam cuts to the core, and then the pulse is fired, while the Death Star immidiatly destroyed a planet which requires way more power.
yeah especially when the Universe's Technology has stagnated.
Palpatines broadcast:
"So anyways I did some building off-stream..."
Bruh my boy Eck out here making memes with mafs. "That makes 900 Billion dead Imperials" Thats horrendous! Anyway!"
That's 40k levels of carnage.
900 Million*
But, yeah...
While we know Xystons are not retrofitted Imperial-Is (they're too big), I think a kernel of the "mysteriously disappeared Imperial fleet" theory might still be true. If Palpatine had put thousands of Star Destroyers in storage in the Unknown Regions (perhaps as they became obsolete and newer ones were created), then the Sith Eternal could have scrapped and recycled them. They obviously couldn't use 1-to-1 parts, but they'd have enormous amounts of durasteel, wiring and other raw materials to use, which would bring the materials cost down a lot.
That would also make the Xyston a dark counterpart to the New Republic Starhawk, which I find fitting.
You know palpatine should’ve just said screw it if I die I need at least one xyston to fire at exegol as a contingency plan.
That would have made too much sense.
If I was Palpatine in that scenario I'd have just been like "I'm probably gonna die a second time trying this but fuck it, I'm going to hide one somewhere else in the system and if everything goes to shit I will just order it to jump overhead and kill us all"
2:40 oooooof that voice crack tho
Palpatine's fleet: 900 million personnel
Clone Army:
Sci-fi writers tend to care, at least a little, about the worlds they create. Hollywood writers only care about dumping flashy shit on screen, collecting their paycheck and moving on to the next project.
It's like Switzerland suddenly revealing they have 10,000 aircraft carriers
Palpatine must be really rich because not only did he fund the exegol fleet, but the first order fleet with bases, shipyards, weapon cache and then possibly having to pay them all and keep them all fed, medical and housing. Great video
I think he gets all his money from his supporters. Apparently, Sith loyalists existed within mega corporations (KDY, SFS). So they could afford the amount. They would have to be extremely rich people, not just some manager.
"I also give them dental, the ungrateful f*cks"
@@hudson7385 Cool, but did nobody in the new republic or first order ever wonder why KDY was sending so many resources and ships to the unknown region and to one specific planet that the visual guide or novel or something that the first order had knowledge of exegol. Just saying
@@BoisegangGaming lol and millions of sith eternal live underground or in the star destroyers and are all healthy somehow by the fact they live on a sith planet that has lightning everywhere and sand waiting for their master to use the force to lift them above the dirt and the star destroyers somehow take no damage even if the movie says they have no shields and are being hit by the planets lightning.
@@BoisegangGaming lol
The Empire was just Palpatine once again asking for the galaxys financial support
From the new Darth Vader comic (issue 11 I believe) that palpatine was already in production of those ships as early as 3 ABY on Exegol. So he had not only those ships being built but also the second Death Star as well.
Assuming the fact that an Eclipse SSD might cost around 5 to 10 billion credits...... Well Sheev could have gotten at least 900 to 450 Eclipses!
Eck: The Exegol fleet of the Final Order was costly.
Me: No, really? It's only 25,000 massive battle stations, each with the capability to destroy an entire planet.
Yeah. I mean, the chances in the star wars galaxy to accidentily stumble upon an army capable to conquer the galaxy is quite high. I mean, Obi-Wan discovered two armies in one day. And he didnt pay anything. Id say that this army was just lying around and Palpatine found it by accident and decided to just go with it
@@floriancasperlp1888 I was being sarcastic.
@@GalacticRepublic_CT-1977 yeah. Me too
Also, it is unlikely that he stumbled upon this naval armada, because they are each the most Palpatine weapons that I could think of. A Star Destroyer-Death Star combo.
@@floriancasperlp1888 Ooooohhh ok. Sorry,
Palpatine just sold his limited edition action figure collection
The Star Forge would’ve been a great explanation for why the Sith Eternal had so many Star destroyers at his disposal.
So how did Palpatine get all those people into his dark fleet?
'Cuts to Palpatine in age of empires wolololoing him self an army for years'
I would love it if in Eps 10 they uncover some documents he had with a reference to something known as the Star Forge
The star forge is the only possible lore explanation to how a single fucking hidden planet has a fleet to match the empire at is height.
Of course we know the real life explanation. The Hollywood writers the mouse hired have absolutely no regard for world building, internal consistently or basic logic. They only care about dumping shit on the screen, collecting their paycheck and moving on to the next project.
At least Palpatine learned to spread his money across many ships instead of one or two superweapons
Less likely to lose all your money that way
Smart of him to put them all on one planet, then, and making them all controlled by one beacon.
It‘s crazy to think about these ships already getting build post-Empire. The Darth Vader issue #11 that came out two days ago confirms it.
“You can still assign a value to labor”
*Internationale plays quietly in the background
Wait now I have so many more questions. If they had 10,000 plus ships, why was the navigation tied into one navigation control ship? and only one ground unit? How effective is the automation? How did they lose when they had so many ships?
This right here is the only problem I've got with the SW franchise. Numbers. A billion "Sith" killed in a single battle - which is a horrific thing to think about - yet we have that utterly stupid ratio of Clones to Clankers during the Clone Wars.
Anyway, great video Eck. Nice work.
@@papapalps2415 And that's my issue. Around the time of the prequel trilogy, there was a creative think-tank making sure major plot points were done/released in the right order. Yet despite this, the true figures are very hard to find (if at all) with some writers making things up in their books that don't match what's said elsewhere.
Of course, the GAR numbers were huge. And it's possible to somewhat guestimate the figures by going through all the material and adding everything together. But for someone like me who doesn't fall blind to "ten people is a tragedy, ten million is a statistic," I would have really liked some proper stuck-to numbers when it came to the Clone Wars.
@@papapalps2415 I wouldn't have minded if there weren't any numbers at all. As I said, a nerd can do the maths by combing through everything if they really wanted to, but the problem is that they tried to pretend that there WERE some hard numbers at play.
Heck, I'm pretty sure Labyrinth of Evil still makes the 1m Clones as being the "reality" right before the RotS!
And of course, the CW series doesn't help here. The Clones are portrayed as also being the crew of the GAR's ships which as you said, pushes the numbers into the billions even without taking into account the backroom staff, other support crews and the non-Clone members.
Eckhartsladder: I hate Exegol!
Also Eckhartsladder: I love Dark Empire
.....
Ok Eck
@@papapalps2415 you're right. Palpy coming back to life with a random ass huge fleet was done much better in the Rise of Skywalker
@@papapalps2415 Sorry, I couldn't help myself. Ok but seriously, I haven't read Dark Empire, it just seems really funny to me that Eck is pretty much the only Star Wars fan I know of that likes Dark Empire and then The Rise of Skywalker does the same thing (ie Palpatine comes back with a sith armada) and Eck just absolutely hates it. I remember Dark Empire getting laughed out of the old Expanded Universe. And honestly, not being sarcastic at all here, I genuinely think Rise of Skywalker is the best of the new trilogy.
Plus Star Wars has always been goofy/stupid/nonsensical so I'm not a fan of "ooh this doesn't make sense" kind of talk about Star Wars in general.
I always assumed he used droids and clone labor. It’s also way easier to cut down on costs when you have, you know, space to find near infinite resources.
My guess is each of those ships had skeleton crews and were run mostly by Droids. Especially since he buried them once they were completed.
That said I found that if you change the name to Byss and the emperor’s lighting to battle meditation the whole third act gets at least 40% cooler.
How do you know he had damn near infinite resources?
Everything is in space. I mean maybe the big planet busters may need Kyber crystals or something but the rest of the ship seems more or less as Eckhart described.
Tractor beam some asteroids into moons to bust’em up then start smelting.
I’m guessing the Sith aren’t to fussy about the environment either.
@@Therosx ,
*Sigh* That's not even an accurate description on how to make a fleet.
You need the ships to crash the asteroids together, you need the ships to transport the parts to the smelter... you need to manufacture the tools, to make the tools, to make the parts for the lasers/generators, etc. You then need the parts to be shipped to the shipyards, that's after you build the ship yards to accommodate building hundreds of ships simultaneously...
You need the population to man all of that, and man all the ships, and you need a population to manage the housing, and _food_ requirements...
The Sith Eternal doesn't have the capacity/population to do any of the above.
I enjoy how you always admit you got some info from another source and dont play it off like it is yours.
in my mind there were no more that 500 Xyston class ships, more were being built though
Headcannon anyway
@@papapalps2415 That's argueable, the power of the First Order ships makes it so that it doesn't need extreme numbers. 1 resurgeant holds the firepower of an entire fleet.
@@papapalps2415 Not really, most system defence forces probably has like 10 ships at most. Heavy Cruisers are probably the biggest ships that they have. They probably would need 1 Resurgeant for each small defence force, planets Coruscant might have larger defence forces so just send 5 Resurgeants and they will most likely not suffer a single casualties.
@@papapalps2415 the first order resurgent classes were extremely heavily armed so a single one deployed to a core system could probably take it, fighter squadrons and cruisers could overwhelm huge swaths of the galaxy as PDF forces would likely surrender once space falls (usually just a few corvettes a fighters to contest orbit) especially if you consider large amounts of the galaxy would have surrenders to the first order in fear. but the first order simply wouldn't be able to grab that much space in that much time so it would be more likely and realistic that the first order had large chunks of the galaxy in its boarder but must of them were just under siege not direct control. the empire had over 25,000 ISD's and it says in the force awakes visual dictionary that the first order fleet is too small to rival that of the Galactic empires which was made up out of 25K ISD'S. and even when you consider that the first order fleet is made up also of EX imperial ships it would tell you that they have a pitiful number of resurgent class ships and that the only way they are able to be a serious threat is because of the new republic disarmament. but if you think about it he says resources not ships implying that the final order has an excess of resources and materials but not the places to construct the ships which is why they need to link up
@@papapalps2415 first things first wow man that was amazing to read and I appreciate the lore depth in that response, usually by this points its devolved into childish screaming
anyway The resurgent in all textbooks its the most heavily armed ship of its size ever constructed (I think) a single SSD usually could project power in a large area of space solo as it was armed with around 4K-5K turbolasers of various classes making it extremely powerful and a significant threat to even core systems of the Galaxy, while it would need backup to take on a core system it could realistically do it. a single resurgent however is armed with 1.5K turbolasers and ion cannon emplacements meaning that just 3 Resurgent ISD's would have approximately the same amount of power as an SSD in a more balanced and manoeuvrable frame. now while planetary defences would be absolutely overwhelming on a core world planet a significant fleet like the one we see in last Jedi which is at lease 20 resurgent's about 10 of would by all logic would be able to overwhelm a core defence if it lacked a significant orbital presence and even then pose a threat.
not only that the first order would have had at least (in my mind) 5 mandator IV siege dreadnought which seem to drastically outrange standard weapons on a orbital fleet as we see over D,quar. combine this with the resurgents firepower and they would have posed a significant threat to planetside defences and even shield generators possible being able to overload segments of it or take down parts of the shield to land troops on a planet. plus the first order would have had ex imperial ISD's and frigates to bolster its line and smaller ships like Carraks, lancers and raiders which could have gone missing unnoticed by the NR when they were too busy hunting down ISD's. like at the end of the novel lost stars it speaks of imperial fleets made of support ships, ISD's and strike cruisers (venators) hiding in unknown regions which likely would have joined up with the eclipse (aftermath empires end) and formed the beginnings of the first order.
but the First order didn't only have resurgent and Ex imperial ships making up its line as they had their own support ships like the first order light cruiser that a resurgent would travel with, while they were lightly armed they could act as a fighter screening ship and bolster the line of the first order fleet. other imperial ships would have been the Maxima heavy cruiser which could be deployed to mid rim and outer rim systems to project power and even the first order cruiser referenced to have crashed in Rise of skywalker which could not have been a resurgent as the first order would have gone looking for it.
so yes I will acknowledge that the first order likely did have a Fuck off huge fleet but not enough to reign control over the entire galaxy and they likely were at this point trying to mobilise ground forces to claim the planets they had orbital control of. also the whole galaxy would not be realistic in a few weeks as areas such as hutt space, the hapes and the CSA would likely be left untouched by the first order. the way I see it the first order navy controlled most of the galaxy and was waiting for the army to catch up and occupy the planets. they likely did sweep large portions of the outerim and tingel arm however with relativly small fleets maybe a few Star destroyers of various classes and support ships, like in the truce at Bakura where a Carrak and a few lancers are able to hold the planet (albeit with the rebels help) against a larger ship, first order likely had only around 1000-3000 resurgent class ships with the rest being made up of possible tens of thousands of smaller ships from the corvette to the cruiser designation.
BTW I am really enjoying this as it feels like I'm having a debate not an argument
@@papapalps2415 They took the major systems in a week which means the core Worlds which is basically one Hyperspace lane from the unknown regions. Obviously the first order wouldn't invade the entire Galaxy, the Republic controlled its territory with only a few hundred ships.
The key is to take the Core Worlds. That will basically give you access to all major Hyperspace lanes which gives many more systems reason to fear you because you have an easy way of attacking them.
Also the Local defence forces aren't usually that impressive, the defence forces we've seen with warships are the Umbarans and the defence fleet in the new Canon Thrawn triology.
And the one in the Thrawn triology only had 2 CR90s.
Obviously there are Cannons like the one in Echo Base, but the first order has the technology to make weapons that goes through shields.
I paid for the fleet. I thought the empire was coming back and daddy Sidius was gunna win. It cost my whole stimmy....
The Xystons were actually already being built shortly after Empire Strikes Back, it‘s confirmed in the newest Darth Vader issue #11
Palpatine knew how to save money
Palpatine's fleet was sponsored by Well's Fargo.
*"This galactic invasion force was sponsored by Red: Shadow Maggots"*
The most confusing part of that fleet wasn't the fleet itself but the manpower required to build and run it. How did they get that many people in so little time?
Palpatine started the building a long time ago… to be ready for the aliens…
"Palpatine's" plan for Ep. IX was like something Dr. Evil might have come up with.
And we’ll destroy...
*One million planets.*
@@goroakechi6126 mwahahahahaha
Palatine: I have one simple request. And that is to have ISDs with frickin' superlaser beams on their bellies!!!
It’s over Anakin, I have the first ground!
U under estimate my power...
Oh
You were supposed to destroy the first comments not join them!
Wasn't there a throwaway line in one of the movies mentioning needing more slaves to man the ships?
This trilogy is a throwaway line
Homie just did the /give PapaPalps bigassfleet command and that was that
I finally get to watch this vid keep up the good work may the force be with u
Hey esckharts why don't you do an episode on the ships of stellaris! Im mean they do have everything you like in these kinda things, modular design, having ships complementing each other, not to mention the different types of ships. Not only that you have been streaming it lately so I thought it would be nice!
Dude you’re videos make my day
Palpatine:
B ``MARVIN`` B
INSERT GOLD
XP punishment for cheating
ooorrr!!!
Shift+ctrl+`~` and motherlode spam.
I mean, 10,000 Star destroyers, even without shields should have won the rag-tag resistance fleet just by attrition. Also by this point you're going to need Spaarti cloning to have any hope of manning these.
“I’ll buy that for a dollar.”-Palpy probably
The republic fleet over coruscant was truly the greatest feat in the galaxy of Star Wars!
They have the finest fighters in the galaxy.
Long live the Republic!
The CIS was scammed, Palpatine hid warships in hyperspace! For the Confederacy!
My favorite ship in Star Wars is the Viscount star defender!
One mandator 2 from Kuat couldve done a hell of a lot more
Volume is only a valid metric for very basic components; hulls, corridors, wiring, that sort of thing. When you get into the more advanced components like central computer systems, reactors, or that big superlaser, it's fair to say they would add a disproportionate amount of cost relative to their increase in volume.
Have you done a video on an analysis of the aftermath of the Halo-Covenant war? How many colonies were left, How much of the navy on either side was left, how much the covenant suffered as well as Humanity, and maybe even what we know about the Human colonies that ARE left. Do we have any information on the refugees that have survived through the war?
Oh god and I just got that shorty scene out of my head .
it was as if a billion voices cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.
The 3.375=1.5^3 factor in fact follows from the transformation properties of integrals for example.
I would’ve had basically kept them the same except maybe reduce the implied numbers a bit so it’s not so ridiculous
Have the ships themselves incorporate elements from various Star destroyer types over the years
And probably only have one or 2 planet killers
Or failing that just add some scaled up venator along with the scaled up ISDs
That estimated cost isn't so bad considering that each ship had the destructive capability of a death star. One of Palp's better investments, although none will top the Clone Army. Very value for money that one was!
Another thing to consider is larger ships are harder to make: a battleship needs a different drydock compared to a smaller ship, and in starwars I’m guessing that stays true.
It ALSO would have better systems (diagrams say frontal tractor cannons and such) plus the cost of all the reactor fuel.
900,000,000 crew is also hard to feed. 900,000,000 is close to the population of corusant. So the yearly material intake of the most trade intensive planet in the galaxy.
To be fair, that's the size of fleet that should be in the average SW sector, let alone across the galaxy. For a private fleet it seems fine, ish, assuming there is some kinda manufacturing base underneath or around exogal.
@@papapalps2415 Galaxies are big
I kind of wish they did more with this Exegol fleet. For the largest fleet ever it was only in Star Wars films for like what 30 minutes?
"Top of the line equipment".
That's a laugh.
I've seen beer cans that put up better resistance than these things. XD
They were just husks, only one had a functioning superlaser.
Probably why they couldn’t go up
@The Video Nasty Project @S P And can blow up easily if you hit said superlaser. I've seen more logical designs from people playing Kerbal Space Program. A game where half the fun involves exploding spaceships that are poorly designed.
Palpatine must have used Honey for a discount. Also would it have been more practical to just refit Imperial-class Star Destroyers with the axial superlaser? Cheaper too.
Honestly that number is probably a baseline if there were more than 10,000 planet killers. Also that would up the casualties to well over a billion. Sidious would have been more successful just putting that into the first order.
I love your star wars videos
Would've been cool to compare the cost to our world, using examples of costs of meals people buy in canon/legends, etc. Harder to find an analog for an ISD on earth, but food is an easy analog for comparison
Out of curiosity, not being a KOTOR fan, how much could the Star Forge make out of one star? If it could do a similar amount, then, if you'll excuse a Legends/Canon comparison, that would indicate that it is actually plausible for one fully-exploited star system to supply the materials for a galaxy-spanning fleet. Obviously (probably?) Palpatine would not have Rakatan levels of resource-exploiting technology, but he did have 30 years to get it done in.
Regardless of what you think of the movie, seeing star destroyers rising outta the ice with lightning striking the ice it comes out of is honestly terrifying and awesome.
It's a great *visual.* But if you actually THINK about it for more than 2 seconds, its incredibly stupid.
But that's what most modern movies are these days, arent they? Hollow nonsense that looks good and means nothing. It's the film equivalent of cotton candy.
@@bobw1678 can we go one video without making it about how hollow films are nowadays? Yeah I get it people don’t like it. but I just wanted to say how cool that moment was without turning this into a debate of what’s better than the other. I’m not having a go I just wish this debate happened less, especially when I say something near unrelated to the story at all. 😔
I always liked the ending
the outtro
Now, this is by no means canon, but if Palpatine can build TWO Death Stars in secret (the size of small moons), as well as an imperial fleet, it is logical to assume that the fleet at Exogal was probably being funded partially from that. I mean, when you build an ISD, all you need to do is funnel material from that, build it up over time. Same with the Death Stars. I'm sure material was syphoned from those projects for Exogal as well. The Superlaser technology was around for a while, and with no Jedi and control of Ilum, you can easily (relatively speaking) get the Khyber crystals for the weapons.
Manufacturing is also easier in Star Wars. The Starhawks were build from gutted Star Destroyers, and even then, they didn't use every part of the ship. So, I'm sure building the general hull would have been relatively easy. Plus, if canon drew on legends and Palpatine was using something like the Star Forge, it makes it reasonable. But, even kotor fluff aside, the building of a ship hull was probably easy. All the pieces were in place. Material funneled in secret to Exogal for decades to build up stores, as well as building secret dry dock. Khyber crystals were a bit harder, but after the Jedi fell, there was about 50 years that you could strip a planet for what you need.
So the Sith Eternal fleet doesn't, at least logistically to me, seem improbable or unlikely. I'm still sad the design was uninspired. I would have preferred the Xyston to be the Onnager class that did a very similar thing. But building a flee in secret, that is perfectly in line with Star Wars.
@EckhartsLadder USS Enterprise NCC 1701 Refit vs. The Executor .
3:49 More automated systems is less money in the long term yes but up front is MORE expensive.
I actually don't agree with the 3x estimate. Usualy ~3.5x volume means more than 3.5x price because you have bigger / more complex parts that can be significantly harder to manufacture. But that isn't my point. This would be somewhat accurate if it was just upscaled ISD, but you're missing the price of that Axial superlaser. If you look at real-world parallels, such a super mega awesome high-tech piece of equipment could rival or exceed the whole ship in terms of cost.
Just some food for thought. I won't go into more detail about pricing the whole ship, because personally, I think the whole Xyston is total BS and a disgrace to the depth of the Star Wars universe.
BTW great video, as always ;)
I think Palpatine should've invested in a bright red arrow pointing upwards in every room of the ship so everyone knows at any time where "up" is supposed to be.
Remember when pre release rumors said Sheev P set up a secret fleet of huge Death Stars? Pepridge Farms remembers.... 😑
Could you make costs about other fleets? Like the Katama Fleet, Rebel Endor fleet, Empire Endor's fleet
My man palatine downloaded the unlimited credits mod and the 1 second building mod
To quote another comment I made on a similar video of yours:
“You don’t actually think they spend 20,000 on a hammer, 30,000 on a toilet seat, do ya?”
God bless Julius Levinson lol
Considering Palpatine had a Star Forge it was probably considerably cheaper.
Then you have to add in the cost of a cloned crew the price does go back up a little
Lastntime I was this early. Palpatine was still the senate.
I miss those times, actually... *nostalgia intensifies*
So the fleet costed a bit more but each gave a potential to destroy a planet at a size much smaller than a DS-1 or DS-2. I think they might be worth it but I also feel they'd be more useful to taking out large capital ships instead of planets since I think it's been discussed they have a massive power drain from each shot.
the only thing I would ask about the volume scale up is how much of the extra space is taken up by the super laser's reactor? Kinda like how a cargo ship can have the same system complexity and crew numbers as a ship 1\3 it's size do to being mostly empty cargo space
Thrawn wanted a fleet, Palps wanted a super weapon, this hits both. They are more expensive than Death Star, but with the numerical advantage and the fact that the Empire ruled the galaxy, these would have been more beneficial to the Empire than one Death Star. Plant them over the most important worlds in the Galaxy and the Rebellion wouldnt have much of a chance. Im not gonna go into how those things can blow up a planet, but they do actually make sense for the Empire, with them basicly being a fleet of Death Stars
I'd say the cost is closer to 6-8 times an ISD, mainly due to the cost of the super laser.
when you get the electric bill for your galactic droid army
"Tens of thousands of captains" can be explained by redundant captains.
there is no cost, if YOU run the system. ~ Me thinking about implementing this quote into EVERYTHING IRL
Sorry, but the bridge is the same size, inside and out, to an original Star Destroyer. That means it is proportional to the rest of the ship, equaling the same size ship. I know the book says it’s larger. But it’s not. They must’ve made a mistake.
What else is new about the sequel trilogy?
The finale might have worked better with the star forge involved
Hell of a video
Palpatine's galaxy conquering fleet which he premiered at Episode 9
*INSERT AUDIENCE LAUGHING TRACK*
Palpatine reincarnates in today's America and runs for the senate " I like the way these people operate ".
imagine.... 4 death stars, all in orbit of each other all covering eachothers
holes
The death star couldn't make another object to orbit him cause he didnt had that strong gravity
@@galadato7425 Disney would have made them planetary death stars like the first Disney star wars movie.
@@galadato7425 what if the 4 were linked by some device that would force them to shift any time one of the 4 moves. the 4 would be linked so if one was destroyed the other 3 would have to stop moving and get super close to eachother.
Imagine building a fleet for nearly 30 years for 4.5 trillion and having almost a billion men and it getting destroyed in 10 minutes by some riff raff and a poorly developed Jedi
It really does sound like fanfic a 6 year old came up with, doesn't it?
@@DeHerg Yes! Despite their box office success, the sequels were pretty shite.
Gerald R Ford Class Super Carrier per unit cost: $13 Billion USD.
Xyston Class Star Destroyer per unit cost: $450 Million Credits.
You know if it wasn't for the nav system's inability to simply fly up, and the fragility of it's super cannon, that seems like a fair price for a warship.
Just shows how much they really thought this out
hello eckharts ladder love ur content hope u get better at ur job n become famous
The Empire moved heaven and earth to cover up the financial blackhole created by both Death Star constructions. This fleet would have had to be resourced by some other galaxy to make any kind of sense. There is so much lore-gymnastics needed to make the Sequel trilogy make any sort of sense.
I still would have liked it more if these were normal or updated ISDs