How I would've designed The Final Order's Fleet
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- Опубликовано: 10 июн 2022
- I've complained about the Battle of Exegol enough time that you all probably know how I feel about The Rise of Skywalker -- but here's something different, what I would've done differently when designing Palpatine's fleet.
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I like how Palpatine has consistently made terrible decisions with fleets despite being a literally super genius who manipulated multiple galaxy sized governments and yet his great idea is to just throw a bunch of super lasers on a fleet of a hundred star destroyers
I guess while Palpetine is a genius manipulator and politician, as well as an extremely powerful dark-sider, he doesn't actually know very much about military strategy, yet is too commited to having "UNLIMITED POWER" to delegate more of that stuff to Vader, Thrawn and other military leaders
Well to be fair politicians don’t make the best generals or admirals
@@captain_hammer
I can get behind this
Well, Napoleon was a military genius but he failed to realize that the other powers would never stop challenging him
Palpatine is Hitler of star wars 🤣
How to fix the final order fleet.
Step 1. Reintroduce the star forge.
Step 2. Have it craft a practically infinite fleet of ships of ancient design.
Step 3. Crew it with ancient droids or corrupted aliens (like the Rakatta or something) instead of somehow having a ton of trained recruits.
That thought process must be a lot more common then I thought...
Beat me to it with the Star Forge lol
Something like a mix of the Star Forge from KOTOR and the World Devastators from Dark Empire would have made for better superweapons than just "big cannon on star destroyer". I always liked the World Devastators as super weapons. If they are going to crib from Dark Empire why not go all out.
A star forge would have been pretty awesome, but I feel a 3 movie structure would have been better for something of that scale, like the first movie we see a couple of the ships the forge makes, and the heroes barely manages to destroy them, then in the second one more show up, and they have to start looking for where the ships all come from, the bam 3rd movie we see it in all its glory and they have scrambled together a fleet to delay the star forge while the protagonists go inside and figure out a way to shut it down or destroy it. Oh I can see a good trilogy being set up for this.
The massive number of crew were from the *James Bond henchmen recruitment office* … "all these trained bad guys (and the logistics to support them) came from …??".
A really dark vision would have been to make them _corrupted_ somehow.
Cyborgs that have Sith technology making them a unholy union of flesh and tech.
Not Borg drones or Cybermen, but a little bit like the Daleks retcon with its cortex vault that hardwired not feeling compassion, in that they have a device or implant to ensure they remain cruel.
And it's reminiscent of some aspect of Darth Vaders suit visually. That explains the logistics, they are cyborgs that have the chest piece of Vaders life support system [just the control panel and torso outfit needed for costuming].
It could also be a further development of the conditioning that First Order Stormtroopers received, in the Final Order they get something like the Necromongers from Riddick receive, and come out of it with visible Sith corruption.
They all have the same degradated look that Palpatine has, and look like a Vader without his helmet (or burn scars). … "More machine than Man".
*It would be a form of body horror.*
So taking elements from…
Dr Who Daleks and Cybermen
Star Treks Borg
The Chronicles of Riddick Necromongers
The Black Hole original ships crew fate
Fortress with its cyborg controller that didn't need to eat or drink, but survived on basic nutrients pumped in.
And Darth Vaders suit itself (no Bacta tank needed cause no burns).
They were people, once…
Palpatine should have been a sith spirit like Naga Sadow, not really alive, but a corrupting spirit. Sauron died many times in LOTR without it being anticlimactic or undoing the sacrifice of previous heroes, it's just handled much more thoughtfully
Palatine did become a spirit in the Dark Empire comics before being locked away forever with the help of a crippled cyborg Jedi.
For the reason that it ruins Anakin’s arc, I don’t like how Palpatine came back. Although, I feel it would have been a fair compromise to have his Sith spirit there. With the right connection to lore and making it realistic in the Star Wars universe, which could be a small group of Palpatine worshippers or Sith worshippers that have to open a Sith temple that Palpatine’s spirit is trapped in or something like that. If it was at all necessary to bring him back, I could live with this sort of thing. Although, what we got was pathetic to put it mildly and ruined everything established by the other movies and the universe Lucas created and the stories he set within it.
I don’t think Palpatine should have been brought back period not only does it devalue the payoff in Return of the Jedi but it ruins Vader and Luke’s character when you find out that Vader knew about Exogol and didn’t tell Luke or anyone about it when becoming a force ghost
@@kingawesome5219 I agree. Although if they HAD to bring him back, this would be better than what we got.
Snoke should have been the main villain... A guy from the Unknown Regions? Who knows a lot about the force? What Palpie do in this new trilogy that Snoke couldn't have done? And that, without undoing Anakin sacrifice.
I like the Sith Troopers but they should've brought back similar designs to TOR styled ships. These are Sith Worshippers, not Galactic Empire Worshippers. They need to honour the old warrior Sith despite not being Sith themselves.
Remind me again what is 'TOR'?
@@AlexSDU The Old Republic
@@hunterkiller1440 I see. I knew the 'R' would mean the Republic. Thanks.
If you said KOTOR instead, I would instantly recognise it.
BTW, fun fact, 'Kotor' in my language, which is Malay, mean Dirty. LOL
why would they honor old ship design? Why go back to old technology just for the sake of it lol
Tales of the Jedi more than SWTOR.
The concept art of the sequel trilogy was simply superior to the actual content
Hollywood speaks louder
I actually would have liked more emphasis on the Sith cultists. I would have enjoyed it if rather than being the 'Cult of Palpatine' or whatever, set a precedent that the Unknown Regions are absolutely flooded with various Sith cults, that the reason why it's so hard to explore them is not because of the hyperspace barrier like in Legends, but because the Unknown Regions were such a swirling maelstrom of the Dark Side that the only way to survive in such a space is to fully give into the Dark Side itself, which is why the Republic and Jedi have had such trouble doing so, and only the most advanced species that make the region home, like the Chiss, were able to overcome those challenges. So rather than the 'Sith Eternal' having one unified vision, it would be a hodgepodge of truly loyal, borderline insane Sith Cults all sharing in the belief that Palpatine is destined to lead the Sith as an immortal godlike being of ancient prophecy. This allows Palpatine to have a weird and diverse fleet without actually discounting the fact that Palpatine was the one that insisted on everything in his empire consisting of simple shapes and sterile colors. It would visually distinguish the two without feeling lazy, and playing up the fact that Palpatine, while immensely powerful, does not entirely have the upper hand, and has relied on a decaying New Republic to make up for it. This way, even after Palpatine's second death, there is still a story to tell, while also giving the saga a satisfying conclusion.
I do have a theory based off of this, in that the Sith Eternal existed long before the Skywalker Saga, and that maybe Darth Nihilus has been controlling everything from the shadows while he waits for a new host so that he may rise again on Korriban
As cool as a surreal hellscape Exegol would be, I feel like Palpatine's vibe is more "sterile and technological" rather than "organic and corrupted", and his signature color seems to be electric blue rather than fiery red or orange. Exegol and the Xyston-class worked well enough to reflect that, imo, and the Xyston, while certainly a lazy design choice out-of-universe, does seem like the kind of thing he'd vibe with.
Yeah, having Exegol look more like a hell-scape seems more like a Darth Krayt move.
I think great inspiration could be Apocrypha, a realm in one of Skyrim's DLCs you can visit. It's more Lovecraftian than Palpatine would likely have, but it does strike a balance in dark for the sake of it, and the existential horror Lovecraft is known for.
The Dark Side isn't as uniform as we've come to think of it; it betrays the natural order, creates horrors beyond anyone's comprehension. While Sidious is more uniform, that's not what the Dark Side is, and he could have manifested like that in some way so that there's some type of balance.
I liked the look of Exegol; but the Xyston SDs really should have been more like the World Devastators.
It would've been neat to see an Executor SSD that'd been turned into a sort of ad hoc shipyard with structures and docks protruding like cancer growths as you said. Like an ISD with the bridge of a resurgence and propelled by Venator thrusters.
YES, I've loved that concept for years
Palpatine is a god at being a politician while his military experience seems to be lacking.
I said that samething lol
Palpatine's endgoal in the EU was to completely replace the Galactic Empire with a militant Theocracy, where the dark side would essentially be omnipresent and therefore a more conventional military would become obsolet.
This was also the EU explanation as to why Palpatine, who was obsessed with knowledge and power, never bothered to improve himself in the field of actual warfare.
this is what happens when you elect a man whos only notable skills aside from his strength in the force is killing his family and racing swoop bikes :D
@@josephmontanaro2350 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The Xyston design is uninspired compared to the Resurgent class for example. I get that they are reminiscent of the Imperial I design because Sidious and his followers have been building them for decades but there still could have been something more unique. I love your idea of how Exegol could have looked like something out of a Beksiński painting. Or maybe a decaying surreal cityscape with the inverted pyramid sith temple at the center.
They're literally Imperial 1s and I would bet you 100 bucks that at some point they were the classic one mile long versions till JJ said they looked too small and needed to be made bigger since he did EXACTLY that when making the Stark Trek movies, multiple times.
There's no "inspiring" in it. They copy-pasted the asset and upscaled it. Windows on that ship are several meters tall... because noone at Disney gave 2 shits about it.
@@DIEGhostfish Your right. It's a scaled up model used in Rogue one.
Indeed. They scaled them up. But in a bad way. For instance you don't get any additional features due to upscaling, just larger feature. It was very lazy.
@@ZechsMerquise195 I bet those Sith troopers loved it though, their quarters got bigger
It's my headcanon that since the Xyston is scaled up but without modification (to like amount of windows and stuff) everything in the ship is comically large
The decaying idea is a good one. Death Star 2 being incomplete has seeded in it the idea of the skeleton of a mechanical beast.
I'm imagining a SSD that's rotted in some places down to its bones, that runs nearly without lights like an impossibly massive shadow in deep space, and perhaps the engines don't function well so instead of the brilliant blueish white, the engines burn deep rust. Black, polluted ice cracks off its surface periodically. The engines don't have a calming hum, but a corrupted crackling sound as if to communicate the power systems are somehow wrong. Then, without warning, it springs to life, like a massive zombie in space, showering the Resistance fleet with heavy turbolasers and heavy ion cannons. Even after it's torn in half by the fleet, it won't stop fighting. It has to be completely annihilated.
That would be incredible!
Yes! Imagine if we got a scene where boarding parties enter one of the capital ships to capture it and they find out it's completely empty! No one is operating them, there are no controls. Wouldn't that be something?
Yes and it would allow a better excuse for how the Resistance was able to sink all those ships. IE the ships are drones, but because Palestine doesn’t want a rouge AI on his hand they’re all being remotely controlled similar to how the battle droids worked in episode 1. Of course, the resistance would some how discover this information and destroy the command ship, rendering the majority of the fleet in-operative.
Honestly, the Battle of Exegol really just showed how lazy and unimaginative the writing was for the script of that movie. It wasn't thoroughly designed and plotted out, it was sloppy and poorly executed; if non-star wars fan can see how strange and bad it looks, imagine what an actual Star Wars fan would think.
I am an actual SW fan. Have been since the first movie. I thought Ep 9 was crap.
I’ve watched Efap and I’m just disappointed and angry hearing the youtubers they react to bend their backs and become hypocritical in order to defend it
Apparently it was a literal afterthought, they had the final renders done DAYS before the first screening, which meant the editing probably ran up until HOURS before it was released. From what I gather they kept changing entire sections of script so much that they had to throw out months of CGI work constantly. Hence why they just glued a gun onto a regular SD and then quickly scaled it up so each window is 30 metres tall.
"Listen to this. They arrive to see 10000000 Star Destroyers, each with a SUPERLASER. And they try to take them down, but they start to loose and then EVERYONE, like EVERYONE FROM THE GALAXY, come to the battle and they start to shoot the Destroyers and there is a MASSIVE battle and the good guys win"
"Sir, I have to be honest. As a respectable corporation, responsible for the continuation of a major franchise, we would like you to direct the next movie. Your age of 9 and the fact that you showed us a crayon drawing instead of a script is not an issue at all"
@@franekgrabowski8928 I know you meant that as a joke... but honestly, that's what it feels like. How else do you explain the Dark Side dagger, or performing a horse charge ON a Star Destroyer?
As much as I love the Sith Eternal's design, I think that the Xyston star destroyer was a missed opportunity. It just wasn't unique enough for me. I mean, I'm okay with the one we got, but I would've gone for a sleek design with a ribbed hull, kinda like the armor of the Sith Troopers. The hull could also be jet black with red accents and stripes, sort of a callback to the Dark Empire and the First Order!
I feel like a good explanation for where he got the man power for the ships would be that he was using remnant droids it also could act as a way to bring the prequels in to it and explain a bit more about how they stayed their for so long
I like the unnatural growths that you talked about, something along the lines of tendrils holding ships together powered by sith occultism seems interesting to me.
I think that Babylon 5 achieved what you are suggesting as in the 4th season the Earthings had become a shadow ally and convert their Omega class ships to include shadow tech. The result was a very dark and creepy ship that really fit the mood and the story. With all those tentacles sprouting out from all around the ship.
Imagine if they'd done an "Eternal-Fleet-like" concept for the final order.
That could've worked.
Yepp that's how I would have done it too.
Keep palps dead, have just a hologram recording saying "hey Vader after we corrupt luke we finna find the Sith Eternal Fleet, it's on Exegol" then have Kylo look for it to destroy the Resistance, who got stronger after Luke's inspiring sacrifice in VIII. Connect the 3 trilogies with some EU. Have some spin-off set in the High or Old Republic that elaborates on the origins of the fleet a la Rogue One for the Death Star. Easy Moneyyy
I would have loved to see a coherent trilogy of Good vs Evil written well and with the amazing graphics the sequels had. I truly do think it's a shame they didn't plan the movies out more and went for "oooh, shiny."
Doesn't help every scene was done on the fly, with Abrams "Improvising" scenes between characters and changing scripts for one actor and not another at random. As he said, next time he does a big franchise, he will try to have a plan of some kind.
Personally, as someone who places TRoS at the bottom of my rankings. I couldn't change any aesthetics (Except Rey's design. There's a really cool art piece that combines her whote robes with her Resistance outfit. I'd use that.) Visuals are the film's strongest appeal, from designs to shots, it's solid in those areas. Even if the Xyston's are sneaky reuse, they work, their dated designa give them unspoken history.
It's in the usage. You have a fleet of planet killers? Actually send them out into the galaxy. Make that a plot point by carrying over how Palpatine had a scorched Earth policy if the Empire failed from Operation Cinder. If he wins, he isn't going to be a tyrant again, he'll be an annihilator. I'd have sent a few of the Xyston out into the galaxy earlier, not necessarily destroy a planet, bit hold a gun to the galaxy's head, essentially. Raise the stakes and properly establish this as a final threat for the saga. Hell, midway through the Resistance's initial attack on Exogol, cut to a Xyston arriving at Ajan Kloss as the Final Order is ordered to fire on any planet they orbit. When Poe's forces lose communication briefly, have it seem that Sheev's truly won, and it really makes Lando and the Galaxy fleet's arrival impactful, as the galaxy has risen in the face of a foe who would leave it in ashes.
Could you point me to that art of Rey's outfit?
i would have him announce his return by blowing up coruscant then sending his broadcast and then after that you get a scene of a bunch of ships arriving at strategic important planets around the glaxy and do what yu talking about
Now I want to check out Zdzislaw Beksinski’s paintings. Not only does this channel expand my knowledge of Star Wars, it expands my knowledge of the art world also.
A good inspiration for a sinister Sith ship would have been the Shadow Battlecrab from Babylon 5. Those things were creepy and could materialize from seemingly nowhere and vanish again after wrecking everyone's shit.
Babylon 5 is such an underrated piece of media. Waiting anxiously for the day someone decides to re-do all the CGI for the show, would elevate it so much
@@khuhruzhsvethmeorv8318
Hopefully fans, rather than soulless corpo-rats which will bring it in line with the Diversity, Inclusion and Equity standards of the New World Order.
I would've redesigned it by rewriting the Rise of Skywalker out of the trilogy as a whole
just curious are you suggesting that you would want to use the concept of that movie as a basis for the trilogy?
or do you mean that you like the first two and that rise of Skywalker should have been rewritten?
How about writing the entire trilogy out of the trilogy?
Last Jedi is just as bad
Yea I like where you're going with this. I agree very much.
I like parts of what they did with Exogol and how Palpatine was presented. The warped and utterly evil entity that he was. The more mystical and darkness of the Dark Side needed to come out on the crew and ships. Much more warped and corrupted presentations would have been way better.
I thought the finale order fleet is lazy in concept. Literally the same ship, just with mini deathstar lazers.
I actually like the 1st order capital ships because they didn't have the large structure that's so easy to target.
I like these types of videos a whole lot more than the simple ripping on terrible thing because this provides an actual solution although I am quite partial to ripping into poorly written disgraces of long running franchises myself
To me the Xyston seems like the natural evolution of the Mandator siege ship line for dealing with planetary shields. So in that sense the Final Order fleet would essentially be just like the First Order fleet but focused around a fleet of ships that are far more capable of breaking the otherwise months to year long planetary sieges of the galaxies most protected planets without necessarily having to outright destroy the whole planet.
For me a Xyston should be the apex of the Mandator siege line where it is a vessel totally devoted to that role and only additionally packs other equipment or functionality to that role. So perhaps a few hangers for deploying some additional ground troops or an escort of fighters, but otherwise it's just one part of the fleet while Sith Star Destroyers do the rest of the work.
I think I’d go with imperial-1 class star destroyers but kind of like what you said, they’re all edited and with added sections that almost look organic (showing the dark chaos within the empire finally surging out) Maybe even like some raider-class corvettes manned by mad cultists packed with explosives and war beasts.
My main problem with the fleet wasn't so much lazy redesign of the imperial I but the logistics.
Legends it took the sith empire hundreds of years to build a fleet on a Dromund Kaas with smaller and less ships. That was swamp planet with resources. But exegol seems like a barren wasteland. How am I supposed to believe palpatine built the biggest fleet in history in 40 years on a wasteland of a planet. Its not believable period. If they explained oh they had a star forge or that the fleet was majority of the Imperial I and IIs that palpatine had been sending to the unknown region for years. I mean in the comics it was stated Jaku had a secret imperial research station that monitored the unknown regions and mapped them. Palpatine was sending tons of ships out there
So finding out a huge majority of the imperial fleet that palpatine sent there and the remaining fleet at the end of the battle of jakku made up that fleet would be believable.
But over 1,000 star destroys twice as big as imperial Is built in 40 years without a star forge on a desolate planet that looks like it has absolutely no resources? Like really?
I think it would be cool if we got some commissioned art of what some of these concepts may have looked like. Wink wink nudge nudge.
First off, the weapons should be new. I like the idea of pitch-black star destroyers with red highlights. For a superweapon, I would use something unnatural, with the cold blue glow of force lightning. Maybe it doesn't destroy planets - it corrupts them. Exegol isn't just a secret lair, it is the future of the galaxy.
2:05
I think a good comparison to that art would be Savathun’s Throne World from Destiny 2, it’s literally described as “not looking like any other throne world I’ve heard of”
Also it’s very Castley
It could’ve been almost 40k in the way you see dark side energy consuming a world when a Final Order fleet invading a world to show how this new threat has the potential to destroy entire worlds without being held back by technology that grounded the Empire in the previous movies.
Great video Eck, you pretty much summed up my own opinion how how they didnt go far enough wik the parallels to Dark Empire AND you pointed out new aspects I hadn't fully thought about, great job dude.
I like your idea of the ships having these strange growths on them, sort of like tumors of the dark side. This would also really draw a parallel with the cancer Palpatine represents in the galaxy.
Also to add it would also represent how palpatine, and other sith completely embedded in the dark side have there appearence altered, corrupted.
Love your ideas! The description of your Sith Fleet reminded me a lot of the Reavers from Firefly/Serenity. Of course they are even way crazier (literally) - perhaps even a bit over the top, but they were defenitely terrifying and exuded this unknowable, ruthless darkness. It would also have been a lot of fun to see originally imperial ships and flotillas join in the battle against this now common and obviously EVIL enemy (commanded by Imperials who cherished order but not considering themselves evil).
The Sith eternal fleet could have been a mix of all the old Republic/Clone War era ships like the Venator class (but beefed-up/upgraded with the planet killer cannons) and droid army ships.
Would have been a nice call back and would explain where the majority of them went after the fall of the Republic.
I like how imaginative you are with the ships, and your ideas. It sounds like something that should be done in Star Wars.
These are the videos I want from people. Not videos of overwhelming slander and negativity but videos with actual merit and explaining what THEY would do differently. It gets tiring watching people criticize and pull apart a story without giving a better alternative in their view. It just makes the video so much more interesting.
aesthetically in all honesty, final order troops, officers, and crew look dope.
0:30 no, it was "designed as it was" because of the same reason Obi-wan looks like a high school drama production
The final order could have been very cool if done right.
Exegol: A world completely imbued with the power of the Dark Side
I would have liked Palpatine's return better if instead of bringing him back to life, if the "Message" was all a fake left by palpatine to his supporters after his death. I think it would have given him more weight if everyone had thought he was alive, pulling all the strings still, but wasn't. It would have shown us how powerful of an influence he had if he can still manipulate the galaxy from the grave.
My main criticism of the most recent films is the immense concentration of material and personnel by the First/Final order and how it is completely missed by their adversaries. Like 10000 star destroyers is almost half of the overall fleet size of the Empires at its peak, and would likely need the resources of the entire galaxy to build in any reasonable amount of time. Let alone the manpower to staff.
But I kinda like your idea, my head cannon would be that Big P could manipulate/ask sith aligned people/companies/organisations to scrap or buy space hulks, fly them to Exogol and crash them into the surface. There they can either be scrapped for parts, or eaten by the dark side infused planet to be regurgitated as ships infused with the spirit of the dark side, held together and directed by the raw power of Big P. The battle above becomes much more about pinning the fleet in Exogol, while Rey and Kylo Ren look to kill Big P
I see people complain about them a lot, but I actually like the Xyston-class Star Destroyers. I think making each one of them have the firepower equivalent (or equivalent in terms of tensions) to the Death Star was pretty menacing. Sure, they could've had the appearance of old Sith fleet warships, but I think having each Star Destroyer have a super laser was freaking sick. I also love how each of the Fleets were named after ancient Sith and brought old Sith like Revan and Naga Sadow (partially) back into Canon.
Considering his prior obsession with planet killing space stations, I think instead of a traditional fleet... Possibly a bunch of mobile space castle fortresses would have been cool. Seeing Sith castles with their dark and possibly twisted architecture floating in space. Seeing Vader's castle or castles on Exegol literally rip out of the ground.... Ominous, dark, and invoking some horror vibes.
Something very similar to the Blackstone Fortresses of Warhammer 40k... Where the Resistance would be forced to land on them and confront those same twisted Sith beasts guarding them.
Great Video Eck,
Here is how I would design the Final Order's Fleet
Ships:
Some of the old imperial fleet, Imperial Is, Imperial IIs, Arquitens-class command cruisers, etc. Being the ships that went missing, still crewed by their old imperial officers. Sidious through the dark-side making them live longer, as a reward for their loyalty to him. The ships themselves having scars of many blast marks on the hull from past battles before leaving the known galaxy. The look making them look like the ship themselves & the crew are battle-hardened. Plus some noticeable upgrades for modernizing the ships, like the First Order fleet. One of them being weapons powered by kyper crystals. Plus updated targeting systems. Their old look being misleading, until they enter combat. And the upgrades are made known to their foes.
Also looking like ghost ships, being worn & the hull being a bit dirty. But still fully functional, seen as ghosts from the past. Causing fear to those who encounter them in combat or see on patrol.
New ships:
Based on the ancient Sith fleets plus a slight imperial influence. A completely new design, reflecting the Sith's and Sidious's Ideals & beliefs. Being new designs from what he learned from the First Order, CIS, Republic, plus the Empire.
Looking ghostly & having a eerie look. The ships themselves look freighting to behold, looking completely influenced by the Sith & the Dark-side. But still being tactically viable with help from Sidious's new Supreme Commander, who is a ship designer.
Crew:
Sidious's Supreme Commander & most trusted military advisor ,
Either a veteran imperial or a alien race completely loyal to him. A tactical genius, being in charge of design & tactics. Due to what Sidious learned from his mistakes in Imperial design & the Battle of Endor. Sidious being a great planner, but not the best at naval tactics.
Crew of both ships:
The Old Imperials that left the galaxy from before on the missing ships.
A new crew for the new ships, either clones on what Sidious learned from the Clone Wars. Or a ancient hidden alien race loyal to the Sith or a alien race that he persuaded to join him. Ancient aliens loyal to the Sith, I think would be the most interesting.
The crew follows the Tarkin doctrine with Sith influence, being by fear of the power of the darkside, and Sidious's loyal followers. Like the old Red Guards, they are completely loyal to Sidious & him alone.
As a callback to the Prequel Trilogy, Sidious's military officers only call him Lord Sidious. With Plapatine removing the mask of being a non force user Emperor or Leader of the Republic. Leaving the Plapatine persona behind, that he used to show the Empire & the Republic in the past. With the galaxy & the old Imperials seeing who he truly is.
A fleet being a revival of the old Sith Empire with Plapatine's influence in his image. Designed to rule the galaxy forever through fear of the Sith & the power of the Darkside.
Simply dropping the Imperial look & design & going all into the Sith design influence.
Id like to see a Palpatine show, about what he was up to on his days off. We only ever get to see him at work. Maybe get a glimpse into what those officers on the buried ships were doing for 30 years, where did they live, what was the pay like, how did they apply for the job ?
I love the uniforms of the Crew on the Xystons tbh, especially the gunners with their funny helmets
Palpatine's Journey by Worthikids is the best explanation for how Palpatine got from the second Death Star to Exagol's throne.
Something I would have done, is keep the method that Palpatine used to resurrect secret, but establish that his death is the movie is ultimate, because as it stands, to me at least, he could come back because the movie didn’t establish parameters as to his resurrection abilities
Eack you you truly are a gray jedi, someone who truly seeks the balance by merging light and dark to make something new and balanced.
Excellent video! When you described your ship ideas, I immediately thought of the Shadow-enhanced Earth destroyers from BABYLON 5. Those ships were twisted and terrifying. Maybe they could do a mix of Empire tech with the TALES OF THE JEDI Sith Meditation Sphere.
The Templin Institute did their own reimagined First Order and Final Order
It would have been cool to see for the Sith fleet, ships from every era. Tied together with bailing wire and evil. CIS fighters swarming from cannibalized Venators, early victories with republic gun batteries bolted on, etc. Make it a truly ancient fleet that Palpatine has been building for almost a century (Since these fleets were apparently built before he was even supreme chancellor... and yet are more advanced than ships decades later). Have it so they are crewed by the damned, officers literally chained to their stations, fed via tubes, and monitored by dark troopers and sith cultists. B1's flying ARC-170's, cultists flying tie fighters, IMP clone pilots flying last gen rebel ships.
Have vast vats of cloning tubes pumping out low grade extreme short life stormtroopers and workers to scrap the oldest ships (or pieces stolen or salvaged from the sectors) to repair the newer models. Supplemented by a small, worn battalion of battle droids.
Have the final battle not be on the planet, but through the corridor, as ships take off one by one as there is only a single way in or out and it is narrow. Have the resistance fighting a losing battle to stop them, with many slipping past to assault the New Republic AND the remnant Empire forces (With conventional assaults and intentional reactor detonations, NOT lazy superweapons), only to have BOTH show up to stop them at the pass (as most in the Empire didn't see themselves as SITH worshippers, but Law and Order seekers).
Now that is terrifying!
@EckhartsLadder, your description of what you'd have these Sith Star Destroyers be reminded of B5's Advanced Omega class Destroyers that had tech from Shadow Bioships incorporated into them.
They were dark of colour, covered in curving spikes/spines and had a few reddish-orange lights, which I believe would fit well with the aesthetics you're imagining for the Exegol fleet.
I feel like making the final confrontation against Palpatine and his "Final Order" doesn't HAVE to be based around a grotesque unreal evil looking appearance.
Making all the ships of the Sith fleet identical I think helps out a lot, hell, having some big capital ships in the fleet formation as well could've been cool to see.
Now, obviously the designs of these ships would have to be more unique than the Xystons we got.
And I was thinking, why not paint them all crimson red? Kinda like with that fleet of Victory Star Destroyers in Legends, you know?
Or maybe have them all almost pitch black with red ascents or something, that could work too.
Making the fleet look grotesque and about to fall apart, as if beasts with weird unnatural designs I feel like kinda takes away the whole idea with what the bad guys usually has when it comes to Star Wars, and sure, there are exceptions, such as the Ravager. But then again, the Ravager was a singular ship, and it worked in the intended role it had.
The Final Order is supposed to seem like something brand new. A brand new evil that JUST came off the assembly line.
The whole idea of outfitting these vessels with planet killing superweapons however I am strictly against. We've already got enough planet killing super weapons in Star Wars. Thus more we add, the less of an impact the Death Stars will have.
I think a good example of what eck was talking about with the fleet designs "leaving the technology behind and embracing the darkness" can be seen in the design of the hive ships from the destiny game series (one of the more notable ships being the Taken King's Dreadnought). These ships are huge interplanetary warships, but they don't look like a futuristic/technologically advanced ship, more like an ancient creation. They are sort of gothic, dark fantasy inspired. They give off a sort of 'this ship runs on mysterious dark magic/energy' vibe and I think that's similar to what they should have leaned into when designing the Sith fleet.
So-you’re saying we turn old mate Palps into a Chaos God. Absolutely awesome
What it sounds like what you’re describing is a fusion of Yuzan Vong, and Sith alchemy.
I also agree that a less Uniform and pristine armada would have presented a better image of something akin to sci-fi / spaceship equivalent of a Zombie Fleet...
(Something that the Firefly Movie did very well with its Reaper Fleet)
For my personal aesthetic choice it would have been something like having the ships have weird organic growths perhaps related to Xeno (Such as Vong) Forgotten or Corrupted science. Having the metal ships have strange black blisters disrupting their normally clean lines works but it goes even better if the growths are also the source of abnormal attacks.
[The best example of this I can think of would be from the Babylon 5 series and the Advanced Omega destroyers of Earth Force which hybridised their ships with technology from Shadow Vessels]
The Battle of Exogol could have had more organic looking ships. Ships that are decaying similar to how Palpatine was physically decaying.
Then to amp the horror aspect up to 11, crewed with undead, reanimated or unliving crews. Similarly decaying under the stress of the dark force.
Then the ultimate show down, it would be clear to the viewer who was "good" and who was "evil". Keep up the great work Eck.
If I would remake the sith eternal fleet, I would make palpatine's fleet be made up of one eclipse dreadnought, two xystons, several bellators , isds and victories. While the invading fleets would have either xystons or assertors as command vessels and victories and dreadnoughts and backups.
I’d be really curious to see proper renders of your take in the sith eternal fleet…
I believe it would be hyper interesting to see!!
I do agree on your ideas, because they make sense. For me, Exegol would had been like the abandoned coruscant concept, showing that Exegol was once the capital of the sith empire, and that the Xyston's rise from the ground but also soldiers coming forward like preparing to defend the planet . The planet killing star destroyers sounds good idea but instead of every ship having them, maybe 1/4 of the fleet have those weapons and the sips could look like a more menacing and diabolical version of the Resurgent-class. Also would had been great if the Eclipse was the capital ship of the whole Final Order fleet instead of just a normal resurgent, as that would even raise more the stakes and have some variety among the star destroyers, maybe including some world devastators as an homage to dark empire.
The front of the carrier opened up and Rey took a step back, not just from shock, but also fear. Emerging from the dark confines of the craft was a creature much like a rancor but larger and more terrible. It was covered in a crystalline armor that flowed with venomous green energy and its eyes were a sickly yellow that glared with hate at all that lived.
A blast from a laser cannon fired at the Sithbred abomination and struck it square in its bulky chest, but it did little more than stagger and enrage the beast. It turned its gaze to the republic tank the shot had come from and charged, it’s massive frame upending the heavy vehicle with ease. Yet it was not satisfied with simply removing the threat. With claws as long as she was, the creature pried open the tank and plucked the bruised and struggling pilot from within, bringing them up to level with its head. It’s maw opened and a trio of tentacles reached out to ensnare the poor soldier before retracting, jaws snapping shut as the man was swallowed whole.
Another wow from me, what a splendid idea.
I’d rather, instead of creating Exegol, that they just use Iokath. Assuming it survived the test of ages, it has the tech to clone/revive a person, it can make ludicrous fleets, and it has a super weapon planetside if that still matters.
There were some “blink and you’ll miss” moments in TRoS where the Knights of Ren would travel in their own vessel, which clearly looked ancient judging from the smokey entrails, the rough exhaust, and the overall shape which is more akin to a huge black rod.
I would imagine the Sith Eternal cultists would at least have similar warship designs to those. Even the turbolasers could fire projectiles guided by the Force like a primitive targeting system. In fact, why stop there? The entire warship could be a manifestation of a corrupted Force, bending anything around it to its will through hatred. Fragments of the warship were literally held together by the dark side. For the final showdown with Palpatine, the warships would essentially act as lightning rods when ol’ Palpy struck the sky with his Force lightning and fry the attacking Resistance ships instead of just jumping from one arc or another.
I’m obsessed with the idea of surrealist exegol now
From what you described, I don't know if you have seen Serenity, but the Reaver Fleet from that would have been a good inspiration.
I personally would’ve been fine with the xystons having superlasers, so long as they were “single reactor” explosions like Rogue One, as opposed to DS-level strength. After all, panicked survivors can be just as capable of spreading fear as neighboring onlookers.
And it would also give the comparatively-small Final Order fleet some bite compared to the NR capital ships. Similar to your Battle of the Dreadnoughts, a xyston wouldn’t necessarily have to be the biggest or strongest ship in an engagement, it would just need to last long enough to line up its superlaser and destroy the enemy flagship. The disarray would allow it & its escorts to take on the smaller ships.
This
I think a good way to bring back palpatine is that palpatines power over the force was so strong that it gave him a physical form made out the pure darkside of the force
More resurgent and indefatigable class ships are a must. They look too cool
I would have love it if the "I am all the Sith" scene was like this: as Palpatine says it, hellish force ghosts (like Darth Bane in that CW episode) of the other Sith, Maul, Vader, Dooku, Old Republic ones etc appeared and the when Rey says "and I am all the Jedi" you could have a shit ton cameos of Jedi showing up as Force ghost. Anakin would step up to Vader and the would turn into a Force ghost battle.
haha the whole sith beast/corrupted ships angle makes 'em sound like chaos from 40k.
Which honestly works.
I would have used a large number of Exlipse star destroyers with some upgraded superlasers that can fully destroy a planet like the Xeston. Also would probably ad some spikes facing forward similar to the Narada from Star Trek 2008
I really like the idea of a mothballed ancient yet retrofitted fleet of different but massive ships. If Exegol is so mysterious then its ships should be mysterious too. Imagine a fleet consisting of hundreds of retrofitted yet decaying imperial star destroyers. But also dozens of heavily decayed yet retrofitted sith empire star destroyers such as the Harrower class dreadnought and Terminus class destroyers. Imagine that space horse battle on top of a Harrower class dreadnought full of decaying botched up holes and retrofitted turbolasers.
A seemingly ancient but still deadly retrofitted fleet that would allow palpatine to rule the galaxy.
As much as I love these types of videos for encouraging creative thinking, I can never help but think that the solution to nearly every problem within the sequel trilogy is just “literally put in just a little thought and effort…”
Honestly I had the concept of the backbone of Palpatine's fleet being old Imperial ships, ISD 1s and 2s Victory Star destroyers. Then as more ships arrive, the more exotic they get. An Evolution culminating in the Eclipse. Emerging from the shadow of Exegol. Have it be the Flagship surrounded by ships from the Galactic Empire and Sith Eternal fleet. As the New Republic Navy. With two Viscount Star defenders. Have the First one get Struck hard by the Eclipse, it's left flank getting absolutely eviscerated. Have this large slugout similar to the Battle of courascant
In general, I don't think there even needed to be a Sith Eternal fleet. Sure, the Eclipse is a great design, but are you telling me it's a secret fleet for the already secret fleet of the First Order? Really? If anything, I would've liked it if the secret weapon were some world ravagers or something like that, literally consuming planets but making it distinct from the Death Star
IMHO the film we got had the lions share of everything right it just needed some tweaks to make it perfect. For example: Give the first order World Devestators even if it's only a line of dialog it would go well with the fanbase and establish the FO to Sith pivot giving reasons for stuff to happen. Star Wars is a interconnected story that "rhymes" in a brief montage show the Sith using CIS stuff corrupted to new purposes. And finally Palps didn't need to be spoiled in the intro spend that time on galactic affairs or something.
Perfect material for a remaster.
Good video Ecks pulled it off with class 👏🏻
Hearing how you could see the Final Order's "Mutations" kind of reminded me a lot of what Warhammer 40k does with it's Chaos ships. Two ships with the same "frames" as it were, could end up completely different looks and armaments due to what influences were had over them.
I think it was one of the recent-ish Dark Vader comics where he finds some terrifying Evil space Squid the size of a star destroyer near Exegol. How cool would it have been if the Sith Army used those along with a big corrupted Space fleet? So much untapped potential
How to fix the final order fleet:
Step one: create at least 1000“mobile starforges”(imagine a star forge but used like a super star destroyer AND a star forge)
Step 2: make the fleet through those ships
Things they should have done: Lean into the Life/Death force powers. Make Palpatine the Lich he is, he has zombie stormtroopers, casualties of war. Warhammer 40k looking ships made out of ancient bones held together with Sith magic, I dunno, get nuts.
That reminds me.
Instead of planet killing firecrackers, I've been thinking about a different method in which Palpatine would achieve his masterstroke. For example, he would have created a physical manifestation of the Dark Side in its purest form and had it placed in doomsday devices with inspiration taken from the Hiroshima Bomb. Any planet that is hit by these devices will succumb to the Dark Side immediately as the energy spreads across the surface, severely and permanently mutating their entire ecosystems to Palpatine's liking.
My version of the ending of the Rise of Skywalker would have the Resistance and the First Order teaming up against the Taranajans, an extragalactic threat from my Fanon universe that serves the Dark Side of the Force. The Taranajan sun is the most powerful Dark-Side nexus in the universe, as the tomb of Taraj, the Voice of Darkness. The Taranajan empire spans the majority of the universe, and, as the oldest civilization still in existence (they conquered their entire galaxy before life even arose on Rakata Prime), their technology is completely unrivaled. Their version of the Star Destroyer, the Dragonfang-class Warship, is as long as an Executor-class Dreadnought yet looks like a Star Destroyer-shaped vessel that the Yuuzhan Vong would grow. If they could grow something out of metal, that is.
I think overall the sequel trilogy needed people to sit down and talk about stuff like this before just slapping toy making assets down to fit JJ's "vision" and disney's timeline. When people think about "what makes it Star Wars" you get some that see the massive merchandising success and potential as the primary aspect, but really if it's built the way you described then the monetary success is sure to follow.
If I recall, didn't they use some sort of program to make random ship classes for the galaxy fleet at the end of the film? You would think they could have done something similar with their existing Imperial models and ships to create a mix of strange looking Star Destroyers for the Exegol Fleet.
I think the eye of Palpatine as a concept is a really cool set up that could've started this whole trilogy off
What was with all the red helmets etc? It felt like they just slapped some colour on everything just to make it different….you can’t beat the aesthetic of the OT, it was perfect and brilliant!
I think I would have changed Imperial 1 Star Destroyer with the planet buster cannon for a dreadnought like the Eclipse and a great support fleet with different ships like destroyers, frigates, corvettes, carriers, and interdictors also two smaller secondary fleets with similar composition commanded by another dreadnought like an Executor or a Bellator would've made the Exegol fleet nearly unbeatable.
With this the fleet would've changed their whole philosophy of having multiple deaths stars but I think it would've presented a better fight against both capital ships and fighters. And with help of the secondary fleets and the interdictors Lando's fleet would've been doomed with really not much possibility to oppose. Also, having 3 dreadnoughts seems to me a move that Palpatine might've done also following Tarkin Doctrine but with a fleet composition that looks more like one Thrawn would've done.
One extra i would like to have thrown in would be a few old school imperail ships - on the alliance side, not allience ships but bits of imperial remenants who turn up to fight the new evil something beyond what even they would put up with. One off hand line in the battle fleet descrpition of "thats not a fleet it just ... people" well double down on that bring in a fleet to fight what ever you folks design that included a better selection of everyone.
This sounds like chaos from warhammer 40k, semi organic ships with gruesome trophies
Sounds like the Reaver fleet from Firefly! That would have been cool! Especially if the First Order and the Resistance teamed up to fight against Palpatines dark fleet!
Given the way you describe the way you want to design the ships (dark side "growths" etc) makes me think of the shadows from Babylon 5
The long, slender and black Star Destroyers is what I would have made. They would probably be called a Dark Destroyer. Then there would be incredibly armored and heavily gunned dreadnoughts, but a better design. And Exigul would just look like hell if I designed that too.
three or four more Star Destroyer size ship classes plus twelve to fifteen Corvette and Frigate classes from three or four design styles representing different sources for the fleet.